James Orengo

Sen. Orengo) : What is your point of order, Sen. Orengo? The Senate Minority Leader (Sen. Orengo) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, I did not want to interrupt the distinguished Senator, who is my good friend. However, did you hear him say that he does not want to refer me to...

What is your point of order, Sen. Orengo? The Senate Minority Leader ( Sen. Orengo) :(Applause) Mr. Speaker, Sir, I did not want to interrupt the distinguished Senator, who is my good friend. However, did you hear him say that he does not want to refer me to “other things”...

Mr. Speaker, Sir, as you heard Senior Counsel Orengo say, he is not only my friend, but he was my classmate in Alliance High School and the University of Nairobi, where he was our student leader. Therefore, the character you see in him is not borrowed; it is inborn. I...

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for also giving me this opportunity to welcome these students from Nyeri. They are our children and we love them so much. When we see them here, they bring our homes closer to us. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Senator for Nyeri has told us that...

Sen. Orengo) : Order, Member! (Sen. (Dr.) Ali spoke off record) Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to support the Statement by Sen. Cherargei, the distinguished Senator for Nandi County. I rise to ask the Vice Chairperson of the Committee to have an open mind. This is because he has already...

Sen. Orengo) : Sen. Orengo) :are the ones that are delaying the payments. I would like them to extend the investigation to the counties. When they do that, they will establish that some counties have paid in advance but the drugs are not supplied.When we go to the counties, we...

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I want to support the Statement by Sen. Cherargei. I differ with Sen. (Dr.) Ali on the statement that some counties are delaying payments. There was a time when my County, Bomet County, paid three months in advance but the drugs were delayed for six...

Sen. Orengo):

Sen. Orengo) : It is so ordered. What is your point of order, Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr.? Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, would I be in order, in line with your direction that the Chairperson, in making brief comments, should talk about action points so that it forms a foundation for...

It is so ordered. What is your point of order, Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr.?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, in view of the interest that this matter has generated, I would propose that the directions be issued that the document be circulated. We do not want to make comments generally; we want to interrogate the Report itself.

Sen. Orengo) : Order, Senators. First and foremost, I am of the view that the remarks that I am going to make as my directive, fall within the ambit of Standing Order No. 1 (1) which states that- ‘In all cases where matters are not expressly provided for by these...

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. This matter has been canvassed well in the House. There has been perpetual complaint about the conduct of the Committee on Health, particularly the Chairperson of the Committee. Health is a devolved function and it is not good for us to be asking for...

called to order and he should account for his position, for this Senate to proceed with its mandate, that we are so willing to execute. CONSIDERED RULING THE CONDUCT OF THE CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMITTEE ON HEALTH

Order, Senators. First and foremost, I am of the view that the remarks that I am going to make as my directive, fall within the ambit of Standing Order No. 1 (1) which states that- ‘In all cases where matters are not expressly provided for by these Standing Orders or...

Hon. pursuant to Standing Order No.62, I will propose the question again. I know debate had begun on this item on the Order Paper but there was an amendment to the Motion. So, I will propose the question in an amended version and then allow debate to continue. I will...

determine whether or not the recommendations of the Committee are being acted on, and the status of our farmers in view of the problems that we have had in the past and the experiences that the farmers have wherever they are.For some of us who have the read The Godfather...

Order, Senators! Proceed, Senate Majority Leader. The Senate Minority Leader ( Sen. Orengo) : Sen. Orengo) : Order! The Senate Minority Leader (Sen. Orengo) : We can refer to the HANSARD. February 27, 2019 SENATE DEBATES 36

In South Korea, for example, they had experiences in all the sectors – industrial, agricultural, et cetera – but when they decided to deal with the problem of corruption, they did not go for petty crimes. I urge this Senate and the Jubilee Government that in the current campaign that...

Sen. Orengo) : Sen. Orengo) : Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Senate Minority Leader used the words, “Deputy President;” but if it is in his--- (The Deputy Speaker consulted with the Clerk-at-the-Table) I want you to hear me, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Sen. Orengo) : Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. The words used by the Senate Minority Leader were “Deputy President.” But if he quickly forgot, he intended to use the words “vice president.” He can, as well, with you permission, just say that he substitutes the words he wanted to say,...

Order! Order! Proceed, Senate Minority Leader; or is that all? The Senate Minority Leader ( Sen. Orengo) :words “Deputy President,” then the consequences of his actions should be in accordance with law, because he does not enjoy any protection. If the evidence points to any other Kenyan, then the consequences...

Sen. Orengo) : Sen. Orengo) :The suggestion that is coming out in the Report and which I think is useful, is that, the NCPB should be devolved. We should have units based at the county level that will deal with the problems of farmers more effectively than when it is...

Sen. Orengo) : Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I totally agree with you and I will take as little time as possible. First of all, I want to support this great Report that captures the aspirations, dreams and concerns of the people of this country who are maize farmers....

Order, Senate Majority Leader! I do not want us to reduce this to a court room. You know that we have no such official as the “vice president” under the current Constitution. The Senate Majority Leader, by inference, says that you were referring to the Deputy President. What I need...

Sen. Orengo) : Sen. Orengo) : Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I see newspapers in this country, and I could see where the Senate Minority Leader was going. In this nation, we have weaponized the fight against corruption, it is a political tool. You must find a way of dragging a...

Sen. Orengo) : Sen. Orengo) :

Sen. Orengo): Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for giving me this chance to make my contribution. I want to thank Sen. Wetangula--- Mr. Speaker, Sir, this was one of the key projects of the Jubilee Government; the provision of laptops to every primary school student. Unfortunately, without mincing words, it...

Sen. Orengo) : What is your point of order, Sen. Murkomen? Mr. Speaker, Sir, I was taken aback by the distinguished Senator for Bomet County on what he said about the handshake. Now, it is not a long time ago when I said in this Senate that if they are...

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

What is your point of order, Sen. Murkomen?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, first of all, I know Sen. Orengo is my senior and there is no doubt about that. As I have always said, when I was born, he was already in this House. However, he should not live in self praise; he should allow others to praise him....

Let me finish what I am saying.

Order, Senator for Homa Bay. Let him make his point. I will give you an opportunity

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am on a point of order. When we voted on the Floor of this House on The Irrigation Bill, many Members of the Minority Side voted against it. For example, when I asked Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. why he voted against it, he said it is...

Sen. Orengo) :

Sen. Orengo) : Sen. Orengo) : End of voting. Assisted voters led by Sen. Prengei on behalf of Nakuru County and deputised by Sen. Mwaura of Kiambu County, come. (Sen. Prengei, Sen. Mwaura, Sen. Kang’ata and Sen. (Dr.) Musuruve proceeded to vote)

Sen. Orengo) : Sen. Orengo) : Get ready for voting. Vote now, hon. Senators. (The Senators proceeded to vote)

Sen. Orengo) :Madam Temporary Speaker, is it right for the Senate Majority Leader to impute improper motive, when he stood as we talked about the Mover being the Chair on proceedings that relate to a Motion that she moved? Is it right for the Senate Majority Leader to impute that,...

Yes. I take note of that. In fact, my Vice Chairperson is taking notes. However, my other colleague has just gone out for five minutes and will be coming back. Therefore, in the meantime, we should allow Sen. Were to proceed because all I can do is write notes, and...

Sen. Orengo): Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker, for giving me this opportunity to second this particular Motion with the said amendments. The inclusion of these particular members in this Committee will be important. These are high level Government officials whom we expected to act with decorum concerning such a crisis...

There is another point of order from Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr.

On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker. I propose that for good order, if we do not have a replacement for you, you adjourn the business of the House to tomorrow, otherwise then, the confusion that will be created by you just sitting for two minutes is bad enough...

On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker. When you moved this Motion, I was not in the Chamber, but I listened to you on television, and you made a very great presentation. I have read the Report that you have tabled before the House and it is brilliant. Considering...

I take note of what you are saying. I promised you that Sen. Pareno would be here in exactly three minutes, and she has made it. The Senate Majority Leader.

Sen. Orengo) : We will have the last point of order from Sen. Wetangula. Madam Temporary Speaker, if I heard her properly--- In fact, I am not delaying. I am coming with guns blazing. I have just started. The effect of the amendment to that Motion must be borne out...

Sen. (Prof.) Kamar, you may respond to these concerns.

Sen. OrengoThat is for the record. I did not want Sen. Orengo to mislead the House that it was only Sen. Cherargei.On a more serious note, there is a valid argument being presented by Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. and seconded by Sen. Wetangula. Sen. Orengo said many things but the...

Sen. Orengo) : Sen. Orengo) : Thank you very much, Madam Temporary Speaker. I totally agree with Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr., that what has been going on is a manifestation of serious vested interests from many quarters with the sum total effect that the mandate of the Senate is being...

Sen. Orengo) : Sen. Orengo) :you think about the Bill that is before the House. You either agree or disagree with the thinking.However, so passionate is the Senator for Migori that he has urged us to put the interests of the county workers first. Earlier on, he mentioned why he...

Sen. Orengo) : Sen. Orengo) :I am only saying that because I do not think it will help us when we are the House which is supposed to protect the interest of counties. Although most county government employees are working, they do not know if they will get pension in...

I think it is better to look at the bigger picture. Probably, this should go back to the SBC to a have a final word on it. However, I am pleading with the Senate that we better look at the bigger picture. Such sibling rivalry is all over the world....

Sen. Halake, I need to make a ruling in view of the submissions that have been done. (Loud consultations)

Sen. Orengo) : Madam Temporary Speaker, I am glad that I can now finish because I was about to say. Just to continue from where I left when I was on my feet a few minutes ago, I do not want to appear like I am trying to belabour the...

Sen. Orengo) : Sen. Orengo) : Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move- THAT the Bill be amended by inserting the following new clause immediately after Clause 19– February 14, 2019 SENATE DEBATES 49

Sen. Orengo) : Sen. Orengo) : Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move- THAT Clause 5 of the Bill be amended -

Sen. Orengo) : Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to report that the Committee of the Whole has considered The Copyright (Amendment) Bill (National Assembly Bills No.33 of 2017) and seek leave to sit again tomorrow. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to second although he should be using the...

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that The Land Value Index Laws (Amendment) Bill (National Assembly Bills No. 3 of 2018) be now read a Third Time. I ask the Senate Minority Leader to second. The Senate Minority Leader ( Sen. Orengo) :Sen. Seneta seconded. Mr. Temporary Speaker,...

Sen. Orengo) : Sen. Orengo) :

Sen. Orengo) : Next order. Mr. Temporary Speaker Sir, I beg to Second. (Question proposed)

The Division will come later. PROGRESS REPORTED THE ENERGY BILL (NATIONAL ASSEMBLY BILLS NO.50 OF 2017)

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to report progress that the Committee of the Whole has considered The Energy Bill (National Assembly No.50 of 2017) and seeks leave to sit again tomorrow.

Sen. Orengo

Sen. Orengo) : Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity to contribute to the Motion that approves Senators to serve in the sessional Committees, that is CPAIC and Committee on Delegated Legislation. The CPAIC is a very important Committee which helps to promote and strengthen devolution...

Order, hon. Senators! I order that the Division Bell be rung for one minute. (The Division Bell was rung) We will vote on The Physical Planning Bill (National Assembly Bills No.34 of 2017) , The Land Value Index Laws (Amendment) Bill (National Assembly Bills No.3 of 2018) and The Kenya...

Order, Hon. Senators. Could February 14, 2019 SENATE DEBATES 52

Hon. Senators, before we announce the results for the Physical Planning Bill (National Assembly Bills No. 34 of 2017), we will move to the next two Bills then we will announce the results later.

Could Senator of Tana River County approach the Clerks-at-the Table? (Sen. Wario walked to the Clerks-at-the Table and registered his vote) THIRD READINGS THE PHYSICAL PLANNING BILL (NATIONAL ASSEMBLY BILLS NO. 34 OF 2017) DIVISION ELECTRONIC VOTING NOES: Nil.

Sen. Orengo): Sen. Orengo):

Sen. Orengo) : This is a Procedural Motion, so I will put the question. (Question put and agreed to) Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to second. As the Senate Majority Leader has said, this is a Procedural Motion, so not much can be said considering the Business that we have....

Sen. Orengo) : Sen. Orengo) : Hon. Senators, pursuant to Standing Order No.140 (1) , the Bill stands committed to the Standing Committee on Justice, Legal Affairs and Human Rights. (Order for First Reading read – Read the First Time and ordered to be referred to the Standing Committee on...

This is a Procedural Motion, so I will put the question. (Question put and agreed to)

Sen. Orengo) : Very well, Sen. Orengo. Proceed, Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I will speak from here. I request that the commentary from the Speaker‟s Chair on the last point that you made of creation of jurisprudence that may guide us especially on making a December...