Moses Masika Wetangula

Hon. Wetangula Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, I support the deletion but I would like---. The Temporary Deputy Chairman (Hon. Cheboi) : This one is deletion of--- Hon. Wetangula A deletion of Section 37 and substitution thereof of the proposed amendment. I would like to get more clarity on this from...

Sen. Wetangula Order Sen. Wetangula! I cannot restrain a Member from what he has not done. (Laughter)

Order Sen. Wetangula! I cannot restrain a Member from what he has not done. Sen. Wetangula Mr. Speaker, Sir, did you hear the distinguished Chairman, Senator for Garissa saying that the CS is not aware of any application to demonstrate? Under what law does anybody apply for a license to...

Sen. Wetangula) : Sen. Wetangula) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, as I stated, the Constitution is very clear. So long as people will comply, there is no reason why they should not be allowed to demonstrate. There is no need for me to give any assurance because the law is there....

Sen. Wetangula) : On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Thank you very much for the varied explanation that you have given us as a House, but I was wondering whether I would be in order to persuade you as the leader of this House--- (Loud consultations) October 15th...

Sen. Wetangula

Hon. Wetangula Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, for giving me this chance to contribute to this very important Bill. Speaking as a lawyer, I know especially what goes on in our courts. One of the courts in our court system that is most efficient is the Court of Appeal....

Sen. Wetangula) : Sen. Wetangula) :

Sen. Wetangula(Laughter)

Sen. Wetangula) : Sen. Wetangula) :

Sen. Wetangula) : Sen. Wetangula) :

Sen. Wetangula): On a point of Order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Is the leader of Minority in order to assign himself that honour when we have never ever heard him address this House in Kiswahili so that we can gauge him whether he is fluent in that language? Thank you,...

Are you sure they were bewildered because they did not understand Kiswahili or they wanted him to use the national language? The Senate Minority Leader ( Sen. Wetangula) : Sen. Wetangula) : Nidhamu, Bw. Spika wa Muda. Hata kama hayo ni mawazo yake, lazima yawe mawazo ya ukweli sisi tumeishi...

Bw. Spika wa Muda, nasimama kwa hoja ya nidhamu. Je, ni haki kwa Kiongozi wa Walio Wachache katika Seneti hii kuwaeleza Wakenya kwamba ndani ya Bunge hili ni wewe na yeye peke ambao mnafahamu Lugha ya Kiswahili?

Nidhamu! Hayo ni mawazo yake. (Laughter)

On a point of Order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Is the leader of Minority in order to assign himself that honour when we have never ever heard him address this House in Kiswahili so that we can gauge him whether he is fluent in that language?

Sen. Wetangula) : Sen. Wetangula) :

Sen. Wetangula) : Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, je unauhakika kwamba Naibu wa Rais hahitaji maombi? Bw. Spika wa Muda, ukisoma historia ya lugha yoyote, hakuna lugha inayowekwa kwa nyungu na kufungwa. Lugha inakuwa kwa kuchanganya maneno kutoka lugha zingine na kujaza.Rais Kikwete huhutubia vikao vya Umoja wa Afrika kwa Lugha ya...

ya hapo, ataondoka ofisini. Hana ulafi, haja wala nia ya kuongeza siku zake ofisini na hata siku moja. Hiyo ni kuheshimu Katiba ya nchi. Hata katika hotuba yake alisema, “Kulingana na Katiba ya nchi yetu, muda wangu umekwisha. Mimi naenda kukaa kama mmoja wa wananchi mashuhuri wa Tanzania nikifuata Marais...

Hon. Wetangula Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker for giving me this chance to contribute to this Bill. At the outset, I would like to say that this Bill is very progressive. First, I wish to address myself to Clause 34. This is a very beautiful draft. Clause 34 talks...

Sen. Wetangula): Indeed, I agree with the Chairperson.

Sen. Wetangula) :option for energy, I think one of the basic things we need to do is deal with power distribution. I want to seek a clarification particularly regarding those counties that are not on the grid, and they are many including my county. The frequency of power blackouts cannot...

Order, Senators! Since I see a lot of interest, I will allow each of you to seek one clarification. So, prioritise whatever clarifications you have. I will follow the order as I see here.

Mr. Speaker Sir, a very young boy told me the other day that the only issue he finds in Kenya is that where he comes from when you switch on the lights, you actually expect that they will go on. In Kenya, you pray that the lights will go on....

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I think the counties that are the source of power, as the Senator for West Pokot said, should not actually be suffering in the manner that the Senator has explained. For a country that is now considering among other things nuclear October 8, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

option for energy, I think one of the basic things we need to do is deal with power distribution. I want to seek a clarification particularly regarding those counties that are not on the grid, and they are many including my county. The frequency of power blackouts cannot be overstated....

Order! You have made your case.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is true that power outages are very common in the western region. Trans Nzoia too is very affected and the situation is worse during the harvest season. It causes a lot of losses to farmers in terms drying maize seed and commercial maize. The National Cereals...

Mr. Speaker, Sir, first, I want to give credit to the Kenya Power Company because wherever you go in the rural areas you find some work going on. I think it is good to give credit where it is due.

Order, Senator! But they are saying that even where there are power lines, there is no power. How do you give credit there?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, even taking the lines there is an effort which we must acknowledge. Having said that, in Kitui County, it is normal that we run without power for a very long time. Every Thursday of the week, we do not have power. I do not know what happens....

Sen. Wetangula) : Sen. Wetangula) : On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The word “lie” has been used several times when Sen. Haji was contributing and now the Vice Chairperson of the Committee on Energy. Is it now accepted to be parliamentary?

Sen. Wetangula) : Sen. Wetangula) :

Sen. Wetangula) : Sen. Wetangula) : On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Before Sen. Kagwe speaks, I would like the Chair to guide me a little bit. According to how I understand the Standing Orders, the Chair’s attention to the breach of rules by Sen. Wetangula should...

Sen. Wetangula) : Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, are you suggesting that when, for instance, you breach Standing Order No.90, I should just sit here and watch and not talk about it? Are you suggesting that the Speaker does not listen to debates and what goes on? Otherwise, how do I guard...

Order, Sen. Wetangula! October 8, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Proceed,

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Indeed, the distinguished professor read the wrong Standing Order.

Order! Sen. Wetangula! We have to end this debate because you are taking advantage and bringing extraneous issues which have nothing to do with the debate. The Koinange Estate should not come in because that is an active matter in court. On what basis can you possible bring in the...

Sen. Wetangula) : Not on the same issue. Sen. Kagwe, proceed. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, obscenities in primitive accumulation of wealth through corruption must be fought from every direction and front. We should not shy away from talking about it when it happens. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I join in...

Finally, Sen. Kagwe.

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Before Sen. Kagwe speaks, I would like the Chair to guide me a little bit. According to how I understand the Standing Orders, the Chair’s attention to the breach of rules by Sen. Wetangula should have been drawn by a Senator....

What are you referring to exactly?

I am referring to when you found that Sen. Wetangula was out of order to veer into---

Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, are you suggesting that when, for instance, you breach Standing Order No.90, I should just sit here and watch and not talk about it? Are you suggesting that the Speaker does not listen to debates and what goes on? Otherwise, how do I guard Standing Orders if...

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, because we are both here, I would like to be guided---

Order! Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale. What exactly do you mean when you say that I am participating in the debate? I am sitting here overseeing the debate going on in the House. The purpose of doing that inter alia is to October 8, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

ensure that the Standing Orders are not breached. Therefore, you do not expect me to sit here and watch Members breach Standing Orders until somebody points it out to me. What kind of a House will I be presiding over if I allowed that? What would be the purpose of...

Sen. Wetangula): Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Chair and I, are very anxious about this Report for many reasons, but we have been preparing to present it. However, I agree with Sen. Orengo who has raised the concerns although this Motion has been on the Order Paper since yesterday. I...

Hon. Wetangula Thank you, Hon. Speaker, for giving me this opportunity to also add my voice to this important Bill. Having read through this Bill, there are several things I notice that if properly dealt with, will bring reforms to the courts and improve the discharge of justice. Clause 28...

Sen. Wetangula) : Proceed, Sen. Wetangula. Please, be brief so that we can move on to the next item. The Senate Minority Leader (Sen. Wetangula) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, I will be very brief. In this Chamber, if you call a meeting concerning education, health and security, you will be...

Proceed, Sen. Wetangula. Please, be brief so that we can move on to the next item. The Senate Minority Leader ( Sen. Wetangula) : Sen. Wetangula) : Order, Members! Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, I thought that at your graduation, you took the Hippocratic Oath. I do not want to use the...

Sen. Wetangula) : - THAT, Clause 6 of the Bill be amended by inserting the following new subclause immediately after subclause (1) – (1A) An appointing authority shall, in issuing a notice under subsection (1) , notify the members of the public on the proposed nomination through such media and...

Sen. Wetangula) : Sen. Wetangula) :

Sen. Wetangula) : Sen. Wetangula) :

Sen. Wetangula) : Sen. Wetangula) :

Sen. Wetangula) :(Bills deferred)Since we do not have a threshold to go to Division, I will defer Order Nos. 8 and 9 to tomorrow. I hope the Whips will do what they have to do. We cannot keep on deferring voting all the time because it defeats the purpose. We...

(Bills deferred)Since we do not have a threshold to go to Division, I will defer Order Nos. 8 and 9 to tomorrow. I hope the Whips will do what they have to do. We cannot keep on deferring voting all the time because it defeats the purpose. We have to...

On a point of order Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. The Senate has established a practice that when we need to vote, a notification is issued through the Speaker’s Office. Therefore, I think it is fair that you do the same.

Do you want me to ask Senators to come tomorrow to vote?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, no. I would like you to direct that the Speaker’s Office, in the usual manner, sends the normal message.

Yes, it is courtesy but the Speaker’s Office has no business with voting. Voting is a function of the House and the Whips have a function to play in seeing that Members are here to vote.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I wish to confirm that, indeed, we have a practice in this House where we have ---

Order, Sen. Sang!

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am just confirming ---

Order! Take your seat! Are you questioning what I said? Are you suggesting that what I said was wrong?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am not suggesting that what you said is wrong. I am confirming that we always receive messages from the Speaker’s Office indicating to us that we have some Bills to vote on. So, I am not really contradicting you - --

You are completely out of order. That is why I asked you to take your seat. You are misleading the House. I will reiterate, at the risk of repeating myself, that it is not the Speaker’s function to whip Senators to come and vote. That should be very well ingrained...

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I agree with you that it is not the work of the Speaker to carry out the duties of a Whip. However, in view of the fact that, indeed, Members have on many occasions received such messages from the Office of...

Are you asking me to direct the Office of the Speaker?

Sen. Wetangula) : You know the utility of the Clerk to the Chair. As you canvas your issues, I am also consulting. The Senate Minority Leader (Sen. Wetangula) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, I know we are on a learning curve and we do not want to either indict or even...

You know the utility of the Clerk to the Chair. As you canvas your issues, I am also consulting. The Senate Minority Leader ( Sen. Wetangula) : Sen. Wetangula) :October 1st, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Sen. Wetangula) : Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. It is actually an honour for the Speaker to sit and give me a chance. So, I feel greatly honoured. I want to agree with Sen. Ong’era in terms of the application of Standing Order 25 (2) , but even in 25...

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I will take the unprecedented approach by disagreeing with the Senate Minority Leader and also with the distinguished Senator for Vihiga. When I read the Standing Order No. 25 (1) , which will require the Speaker to consult the two leaders only in instances where...

Order! Senators. Sen. Wangari, let me give you the last chance.

Sen. Wetangula) : Sen. Wetangula) :October 1st, 2015 SENATE DEBATES October 1st, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Sen. Wetangula) :train of making money on the pain of others. This is because every time I go home, I am confronted by a group of many destitute people who were chased away from their lands, have never been given a shilling and have nowhere to go, yet we are...

train of making money on the pain of others. This is because every time I go home, I am confronted by a group of many destitute people who were chased away from their lands, have never been given a shilling and have nowhere to go, yet we are told that...

Order, Sen. Wetangula. Could you just seek a clarification because you have made your point? The Senate Minority Leader ( Sen. Wetangula) : Sen. Wetangula) :Forest and why they are going back. That is a very serious matter as it affects climate change.Thank you very much, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Sen. Wetangula) : On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Thank you Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for allowing me to ride on that request. The distinguished Sen. Orengo is here from that Committee. I am also a Member of that Committee but I have constantly declined to take...

Sen. Wetangula, you are seeking to ride on the Statement. Could you please do that? The Senate Minority Leader ( Sen. Wetangula) : Sen. Wetangula) : I will consider that but we are in the middle of Statements. The request being made by Sen. Sang is important and as you...

Sen. Wetangula) : I would like to seek for a Statement. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I know the Chair presiding now is a Member of the Committee and so is the distinguished Sen. Orengo and myself. I will inform the Chair that such a weighty issue has been raised on...

Sen. Wetangula, you have no right to direct the Clerks-at-the-Table. Not at least when I am sitting here. You have absolutely no right to direct them. I think you are taking this House for granted and I will not allow you that leeway. You know the rules and you know...

It is not my powers you are usurping; it is the powers of the institution called the Senate. That is why I say that it has nothing to do with me and I think we must continue to respect institutions. It is important. Sen. Ong’era, are you satisfied?

Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Thank you, Sen. Ong’era. Next Order!

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

What is it, Sen. Nabwala?

I would like to seek for a Statement.

I have approved it, have I not?

You have approved it.

Okay, go on. THE GOVERNMENT’S PREPAREDNESS IN MITIGATING EFFECTS OF THE IMPENDING EL NINO RAINS

Sen. Wetangula) : Sen. Wetangula) :think that the Senate is witch-hunting. It is just oversight. We are not being policemen. I am grateful to what Sen. Keter said, because part of the work that we are doing is based on the foundation that you laid. If everybody else would have...

Sen. Wetangula) : Sen. Wetangula) : Hon. Senators, Order Nos.11, 12 and 13 require us to go into the Committee of the Whole. However, we do not have the prerequisite threshold to vote. Therefore, I defer them.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I am sorry, I meant the Senator for Kakamega who is a neighbour to Bungoma and my neighbour also. Did you notice that as he passionately attacked the Jubilee administration, he focused on Sen. Keter and I as if to suggest that we were the ones...

On a point of Order. Sen. Sang did not understand why Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale was looking at the two of them. It is because they are the more reasonable components of Jubilee. (Laughter)

Sen. Wetangula) : Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I would also like to contribute to this important Bill. Just like my colleagues, I also have some reservations to this Bill. I presume the intent from the able distinguished Senator, Sen. Lesan, is definitely well- thought and has good motive. However, the...

September 30, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

I am sure that even when you read those mercurial stories in the books of Prof. Ngugi wa Thiong’o and Chinua Achebe’s books, some of them are stories told from age to age until they reach a person who is well educated with the capacity to put it in writing....

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Is the distinguished Senator for Bungoma County in order to insinuate that Sen. (Prof.) Lesan put in a lot of nothing just because he does not agree with the content of the Bill? I do not think that it is in...

September 30, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

have produced and what you can do. You do not just lay about drinking, marking time and doing all sort of things until you reach 65, then you go to a home for the old people to eat, sleep and live there. What society shall we be building?When you go...

For the growing young people to know that, Sen. Karaba, for example, has lived to this age because he did not do the following---. They can only hear that from him. That if he lived recklessly, he, probably, would never have reached the age he reached and he is the...

September 30, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

because there will be over a million of such houses which will be provided for senior citizens?Section 12 of the Bill goes on to say that the executive committee members shall be delivering home based care. This is an onerous task that we are giving the county governments which are...

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I would also like to contribute to this important Bill. Just like my colleagues, I also have some reservations to this Bill. I presume the intent from the able distinguished Senator, Sen. Lesan, is definitely well- thought and has good motive. However, the content of the...

When I look at the definition of senior citizens at 65 years, which my father is just about to reach, I think of him being detached from us and put in a home. At whatever state that he would be, I would tend to rethink about it. It has nothing...

Sen. Wetangula) : Sen. Wetangula) : Sen. Wetangula, to say the least, I am a little disappointed in you, because you are a senior Member of this House. This is because I made a ruling, put you to order and you continued to speak. I think that is disrespect for...

Sen. Wetangula) : Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, now that you have made a ruling regarding the two delegations sitting in different galleries and they are on internship, could we reverse the position, so that the delegation from Bungoma moves from where they are to the Speaker’s Gallery? It is not...

I have made my own observation on the issue and believe that the matter is now closed. Sen. G.G. Kariuki, is it on the same issue?

On a point of Order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Mine is not exactly on the same issue, but it is related. There are committees which invite members of the county assemblies and governors. Those committees should inform the Senators from those counties in advance, so that they can attend the...

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, now that you have made a ruling regarding the two delegations sitting in different galleries and they are on internship, could we reverse the position, so that the delegation from Bungoma moves from where they are to the Speaker’s Gallery? It is not too late to...

I think that is a very important observation, that everything is a learning curve. They have learnt that mistakes can be made and when that happens apologies are given. We accept and give apologies when mistakes are made. Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr., do you have something to say? Is it...

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I want to help. Now that we are admitting many mistakes, let us correct them for the future to the extent that even when schools come here – and I have followed the procedure which appears to be very lengthy -...

Sen. Wetangula) : Sen. Wetangula) : It would make more sense if the Chairperson would share what the difficulty is. He is telling us that he cannot give an answer today due to various reasons but we do not know what those reasons are. We actually agreed to split the...