OUNDO, WILBERFORCE OJIAMBO

Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker for giving me this opportunity to contribute to the mediated version of the Division of Revenue (Amendment) Bill (National Assembly) Bill No.38 of 2024. I must go on record that I was together with the Chairman of the Public Accounts Committee as a Member of...

Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. I rise on behalf of the Chairperson to reply. I take this opportunity to thank our colleagues who have taken time to comment on this amendment Bill. I will pick out a few salient issues in the mediated version of the Bill that need to...

Hon. Temporary Chairlady, I beg to move: THAT, Clause 25 of the Bill be amended—

Hon. Temporary Chairlady, I know this is pre-empting debate, but we are currently debating the County Governments (Revenue Raising Process) Bill in this House. I hope we will find a way to marry the two. Secondly, we passed the County Governments Licensing (Uniform Procedures) Act that will come into operation...

Hon. Chairlady, whatever the Chair has proposed is the same with my proposed amendment. So, there is no need of moving my amendment. I support his amendment. (Proposed amendment by Hon. (Dr) Ojiambo Oundo withdrawn) (Question, that the word to be left out be left out, put and agreed to)...

Hon. Temporary Chairlady, I beg to move: THAT, Clause 50 of the Bill be amended in subclause (6) by deleting the word “monthly” and substituting therefor the word “quarterly”. This is basically moving from monthly to quarterly because requiring a typical coffee grower to submit returns to the Board on...

I seek the attention of Hon. Chairman of the Committee. Could the Member of Parliament for Tinderet allow him to listen? Hon. Chair, you probably need to come out a bit clearer especially on the pro-rata basis in (d) . I believe it should be the purpose of the Coffee...

Hon. Temporary Chairlady, I beg to move: THAT, the Bill be amended in Clause 72 by inserting the following new subclause immediately after subclause (3) — “ (4) A person is qualified for appointment under section (1) (e) and (f) if that person holds a post-secondary education certificate. The Members...

Hon. Temporary Chairlady, what we have in the Bill that came from the Senate was that the membership of the Council will be paid a certain allowance "as the Cabinet Secretary shall…" The amendment removes the Cabinet Secretary because he plays no role under the Constitution in setting the remuneration...

Thank you, Hon. Chair. Colleagues, I want us to be very realistic. This is a research institute that will be largely populated by people who are fairly educated and experienced in such matters. The Chief Executive Officer is going to be a peer among others. It does not make sense...

Hon. Temporary Chairlady, I have difficulties with this amendment and the original clause because it is about supplying information. Is imprisonment or a fine sufficient to remedy the failure to supply information? If someone declines to give the Board or the institute extremely important information, they are just punished with...

Hon. Temporary Chairlady, if we read the Clause in its entirety, it is about information acquired during service in the Institute. It says that you can only share that information with the authority of the Council. Research papers and publications are cited based on the standard citation. Would that constitute...

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Chairlady. Respectfully, I request the Chairman to withdraw this amendment. We should borrow from what we did in the Sugar Act because suitability test is very subjective. It is witch hunting and you will punish innocent staff. Let them be subjected to typical annual review and...

Because of the health standards in exportation and the local health standards, it would be a misnomer for us to leave the county governments in charge of licensing, warehousing, and ensuring they meet the health standards. It is important that we involve the Board. Secondly, I want to draw the...

I know he might have been overtaken by events. When the Chair stands to respond to Hon. Gichimu, he needs to tell Members and the country that there is a definition of smallholder. It is very subjective and impossible to contextualise. This is because you say that a smallholder means...

Yes, I did. I meant visible parts. Some will look at his ears and say they are big. Other people will say they small. Allow me to withdraw that reference if he feels sufficiently offended and he thinks that he is in danger or trouble because of that comment. Thank...

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I second. (Question proposed)

Hon. Deputy Speaker, let me thank the Hon. Deputy Leader of the Majority Party in the National Assembly for asking me to second the Kenya Revenue Authority (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill, (National Assembly Bill, No. 35 of 2024) . Hon. Deputy Speaker, as I support, I just want to raise...

On a point of order, Hon. Deputy Speaker. What is your point of order, Hon. Oundo? Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. I want to sincerely request the Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Agriculture and Livestock to mobilise all the Members of his Committee, the next time the Committee of...

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. The last two weeks have been of telling the truth, and nothing else but the truth. To be honest, we are also experiencing the same challenges in our constituencies concerning WEF. The response the Hon. Chairlady has given is underwhelming and completely off the mark....

On a point of order, Hon. Temporary Speaker.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I seek your indulgence. It is unfortunate that the Mover of the Bill or whoever is representing him is conspicuously absent. Whatever we are talking about here is probably just music to our ears. Nobody cares to listen and ensure that it is transmitted to...

Hon. Speaker, I may not be the most qualified to offer you advice or counsel. I come from a fishing community and we often say that small fish can advise other small fish. We also say that when you feed a guinea fowl, do not forget the chicken, as the...

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. As much as I appreciate the challenges and difficulties that my friend, Sir George, has gone through to read a response that has cleverly skirted around the issues at hand, I cannot directly blame him because he is just a messenger. Where I come from, you...

Yes, I had.

Hon. Temporary Chairlady, I beg to move: THAT, Clause 7 of the Bill be amended —

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Chairlady. I truly want to lend my support to the amendments because it is a realm of the young people. We, the old hogs, should remain analogue and mind our business. Further, when you look at the new Clauses 6 and 7, they now take care...

Hon Temporary Chairlady, I support. The jargon being used is so high-sounding and scary. Mover, please come down to our level. (Laughter)

As we delete Clause 35 in its entirety and replace it with what you have provided here, let us remember that it had two parts in the Bill. Part 2 provided timelines of making decisions. Are there any internal mechanisms to ensure, as has been contemplated here, review is done...

Hon. Temporary Chairlady, the Chairman might perhaps need to be a bit careful here. As much as you are very thorough and detailed in legislation, there will be an offence that will be forgotten. It will be an offence that will be provided for any part of the Bill that...

On a point of order, Hon. Temporary Chairlady.

Yes, Hon. Temporary Chairlady. It is a procedural matter. It is not necessary for the Chairman to read the entire Clause because if we do that, we will never finish the legislation process. We are capable of reading and so, let him just mention ‘as prescribed in the Order Paper’....

Hon. Temporary Chairlady, I sincerely and heartily support this amendment even though the Whip of the Minority Party has raised a constitutional issue that rests somewhere else. As I support, I remember I was taken to a tour of Houston Space Museum in Texas, United States of America, and I...

Hon. Temporary Chairlady, unfortunately, the Order Paper reads “may”. The Temporary Chairlady (Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai) : I will give a chance to the Chairman to consult.

Hon. Temporary Chairlady, I am not sure about the definition of ‘Technopolis’ especially the last part that says, “and includes the Konza Technopolis. I thought Konza Technopolis, like any other Technopolis, will apply to be registered as a Technopolis. On the very first instance, why are we safeguarding or protecting...

Hon. Temporary Chairman, this is a very well-intentioned amendment, but I fear at one time it might be subjected to abuse. The words “with such bodies or organisations whose objects and purpose support the promotion of the coffee industry” is such wide ranging. It could mean anything. The intention is...

I had an amendment which was informed by numerous researches that have indicated that one of the impediments to the advancement of agriculture is low level of educational qualification of the participants in the sector. However, I have been persuaded by Hon. Gichimu to drop my amendments on Clause 8,...

We have ventilated this matter for fairly too long. The Temporary Chairman (Hon. Farah Maalim) : Yes. We seem to be going around in circles, and as Hon. Gichimu had said, we already have a defunct association in respect of that clause. Why can we not engage sideways and re-commit...

Hon. Temporary Chairman, I beg to move: THAT, Clause 11 of the Bill be amended in subclause (1) by deleting the words "the Kenya Bureau of Standards" appearing in paragraph (j) and substituting therefor the words "a body mandated by a national legislation to set standards." We will probably not...

No other body exists. Hon. (Dr) Mutunga probably needs to understand the standard architecture a little bit. There is KEBS, the Kenya Accreditation Service (KENAS) and other accreditation laboratories. Ideally, anybody can develop a standard and get it registered and approved by KEBS, the Kenya Industrial Property Institute (KIPI) or...

Hon. Temporary Chairman, we need to be very careful as alluded to by Hon. Wamuchomba. The World Trade Organisation (WTO) , where KEBS, KENAS and other international standards bodies sit, is explicitly clear. We will 14th November 2024 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 59 be safer that way because it will be...

Hon. Temporary Chairman, we already have an anomaly in this country. The enforcer is the same one who sets the standards, and that debate is ongoing in this country. Surely, KEBS cannot set standards and enforce its own standards. What he is referring to in (m) is enforcement. This is...

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I want to persuade the Chairperson. I sit in the Departmental Committee on Trade, Industry and Co- operatives. Mheshimiwa Gichimu and I had the opportunity to go to Frankfurt to attend an international conference that was dealing with the issue of international standards in compliance with the...

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I second. Thank you. (Question proposed)

Thank you Hon. Deputy Speaker for giving me this opportunity. Let me thank the young lady, Hon. Irene Mayaka, for bringing this amendment to the Environmental Management and Coordination Act. The purpose is that it is an Act of Parliament to amend the Environmental Management and Coordination Act and for...

On a point of order, Hon. Speaker. Yes, Hon. Oundo. Hon. Speaker, I do not know whose mistake it is. I was in the Table Office a few minutes ago, and I confirm that we have not had the opportunity to have copies of the responses that the Cabinet Secretary...

Hon. Speaker, let me direct my question to the Cabinet Secretary. We passed the Public-Private Partnership Act, which has very clear steps to be taken before implementing a PPP. You can be gracious enough to tell us whether all the steps proposed in the Act were followed to the letter,...

Hon. Speaker, I think this issue of the 22 per cent and 10 per cent is now becoming a thorn in the flesh. Once the works are complete, assuming the entire disbursement was done, there is what we call savings. I ask the Cabinet Secretary to clarify, up to date...

I rise to ask the Cabinet Secretary for Roads and Transport the following Question: Could the Cabinet Secretary:

Hon. Speaker, it is heartening for the Cabinet Secretary to acknowledge that subsequent regimes have treated and discriminated the people of Matayos Constituency and Funyula Constituency unfairly. It is also encouraging to say that he will look at it. When I saunter into his office, I hope he will not...

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. Let me also go on record, I am a Member of the Departmental Committee on Trade, Industry and Cooperatives and I have had the pleasure to process the Bill up to where it is today. 13th November 2024 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 49 We are here...

Precisely, Hon. Temporary Speaker. 13th November 2024 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 50 I did not go to law school, but I attended enough units in law. I can read and interpret any judgment. That is why we, in the Committee, insisted that we must account for whatever comment we were given,...

Hon. Temporary Chairman, I just need a bit of clarification from the Chairman because looking at Sub section 46A, it relates to the appointment of an agency approved by the board to collect and distribute royalties on their behalf through the National Rights Registry, yet what the Chairman has basically...

Hon. Temporary Chairman, I would like to request the Chairman to give us further insights on the amendment because he is deleting the entire Section 46E, yet it had subsections (7) and (8) which relate to issues of accounts. He 12th November 2024 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 21 should give a...

Hon. Temporary Chairman, if you look at the Order Paper, amendment (h) states: “ (h) by deleting the proposed amendment to section 46E.” Section 46E has several subsections. That is what I want to understand. He cannot say that what he has not spoken to has not been amended, yet...

I also want to support. I sit in the Committee. We deliberated on this matter at length. It cures the discretion of the Cabinet Secretary to give licences that would deplete our critical infrastructure. Where discretion is given to a human being, we have seen in the past that the...

Hon. Temporary Chairman, sometimes we wonder whether some of these people live or not and feel the pain that Kenyans go through for them to propose a deletion to take it to 1 per cent. That would have increased the cost of electricity. Kenya is rated as one of the...

I know it might have been overtaken by events. I thought you would allow us to ventilate but now you have already dispensed of the matter. If you look at the Order Paper, they are providing for deletion and they have amendments on 166 (3) , 166 (4) and 167...

Hon. Temporary Chairman, the Committee Chairman needs to be very careful about what he is amending. The parent Act has a particular Section which talks about a vessel used to convey vandalised equipment or appliances. There was an amendment to expand it and make it neater and tidier. Proposing to...

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I have been at the top of the log for long, but it is okay. There are two issues here that the Committee and the Executive need to address. One, majority of the hospitals have got legacy debts from NHIF, and probably there are no sufficient legal...

Hon. Temporary Speaker, thank you for this opportunity. Firstly, whatever happens in Budalangi in the form of harassment also happens in Funyula. Therefore, whatever answer he has provided touches more or less on Funyula. Hon. Temporary Speaker, we want to make it very clear that we are tired of harassment...

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. Let me commend the Committee for coming up with the mediated version of the National Rating Bill. I am a happy man today because a number of amendments had been moved when the Bill was in the Committee of the whole House in this National...

On a point of order, Hon. Deputy Speaker. What is your point of order, Hon. (Dr) Oundo? Hon. Deputy Speaker, as has been the custom in this House since the beginning of the 13th Parliament, a Cabinet Secretary normally comes to answer questions and requests for statements on Wednesday afternoons....

Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. On behalf of the people of Funyula Constituency and Busia County as a whole, allow me to send my sincere condolences to the friends, family, and former constituents of Waziri Oloo Aringo. When we talk about Siaya, we cannot talk about it and forget Busia....

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. We have had this debate severally, but we seem to be making no progress. I concur with my colleagues that it is time we either act or live with this mess forever. We have the advantage because the substantive Speaker came from the Senate and...

Again, as my colleague mwalimu raised issues, exactly what kind of report are we envisaging? What we have here and what the country has does not lead anywhere. What kind of report are we envisaging to be submitted to the county assembly? What is the county assembly expected to do...

I totally concur or agree with the Committee. At times, county governments overreach themselves. The small departments in counties, which are without value to the lives of the people should not be involved in very complicated matters like these ones. Once it has gotten to the county, the small departments...

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. When I hear the story of Moi University, my heart bleeds. I left the University of Nairobi to come here. We had challenges but we managed to weather the storm. It also happens that my second born graduated from Moi University before it got into...

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I beg to move that the Land Control Bill (National Assembly Bill No.39 of 2023) be now read a Second Time. For the record, this Bill was published in 2022. It was first read in February 2022, but as was the case, it lapsed due to the...