Wednesday, 13th July, 2016

Next order, Sen. Wetangula.

South Sudan, have been unable to reach or access the embassy to get assistance. I would want the Committee concerned and the Government in general to assure Kenyans:-

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to congratulate the Senate Minority Leader for the very profound issues that he has raised. As a matter of fact, the major concern is both the Kenyan people who are living in South Sudan as well as the Sudanese themselves. We all know the impact that the instability in Somali has had in Kenya. We would want to urge that the situation in South Sudan be resolved in a way that will not cause the long term problem of refugees flowing again back into our country. We would, therefore, urge that this matter be taken at the top level of global geo-political settings so that the situation in South Sudan is settled amicably and very quickly.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to congratulate the Senate Minority Leader for he never disappoints every time he speaks on international matters. He has a good grasp of international events. I can see the Senate Majority Leader smiling sheepishly. He thinks that I am saying these good things about the Senate Minority Leader because he is my party leader. No, it is the truth.

Order, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale! The Senate Majority Leader was affirming that good testimony that you are giving to your Leader. The Chair is equally confirming that position. It is the correct one.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. One cannot start imagining what will become of Turkana County if South Sudan collapses. Not just by way of refugees that Sen. Kagwe has spoken to, but also the small arms and light weapons that will be brought into the country. We urge none other than the President himself to

seek the following clarifications:

Mr. Speaker, Sir, like Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, I commend the Senate Minority Leader for bringing up this issue. There is a template that we had in the resolution of the crisis in Liberia. The rebirth of the State of Liberia was done minus Charles Taylor. Could our Chairperson confirm that options are being explored to build South Sudan outside Riek Machar and Salva Kiir?

Is the International community prepared to avert any potential genocide and prosecute those who have committed crimes so far? There was a bout of violence where crimes were committed. The fact that those crimes were not punished, more crimes are being committed. Could the Chairperson confirm whether Kenya is moving the international systems towards the prosecution of those who commit these crimes unto their people?

Lastly, with respect to the current initiatives that are going on in terms of bearing immediate ceasefire, can it be confirmed that the guns have actually fallen silent in South Sudan? This can enable us take up processes of lasting peace and security of this region. What is happening in South Sudan is threatening the peace and security, not only of the region, but of the entire world.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, first of all, I congratulate Sen. Wetangula, our Senate Minority Leader for bringing up this very important issue. South Sudan was really the hope and dream of Africa. It proved that we, as Africans, had come of age and were able to give birth to a new nation. In my further request, the chairperson should tell us what the Jubilee Government is doing with regard to Kenyans living in South Sudan, particularly truck drivers. What is their welfare? What has been done in evacuating them?

We would also like to know in that statement what the state of preparedness of Lokichogio Airport is with regard to evacuations and emergency landing. The last time we had problems in South Sudan during the civil war, Lokichogio Airport was really overwhelmed with aircraft movements. I am very passionate about the airport because I am the one who built it. What is the preparedness of our Government in dealing with it?

We also want to know how prepared the Jubilee Government is in dealing with the issue of refugees, particularly now that they are closing the Dadaab Refugee Camp. This is a matter that needs the international community coming together. It is not just the President calling for a ceasefire. There are also internal problems here in Kenya where I

deal with this matter. South Sudan is the hope of Africa.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I thank the Senate Minority Leader, Sen. Wetangula. He was once the Minister for Foreign Affairs. At one time, he was marooned somewhere in Central Africa where he lived like someone who was besieged. He could not leave the airport due to problems emanating from that country. Therefore, this is a real problem. It is only Sen. Wetangula who can tell us some of these things. It is good that he has told us. We will support that.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, we note that Kenyans living in South Sudan can be evacuated. This is what we should be discussing now. What effort is the Government taking now that the situation in South Sudan is volatile? How many planes and food have been sent there to rescue Kenyans who are already languishing in poverty and various problems in south Sudan? How many Kenyans have died as a result of the civil strife in South Sudan?

If we deem it necessary, we can think of diverting the water from River Nile, if it is possible. The water they get is from Kenya and Uganda. They enjoy fruits from our country. Some of those things should be reconsidered in the Nile Agreement signed in

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I thank my brother, the Senate Minority Leader, for bringing out the issue of South Sudan. South Sudan is a friendly country and a neighbour of Kenya. Kenya has borne the brunt of instability in South Sudan. For many years, we have hosted refugees from South Sudan and we brokered the peace process. I assure Sen. Wetangula and the rest of Kenyans that the President is fully seized of this matter. For the last two days, he has been engaged continuously on a 24-hour basis of the situation in South Sudan. We hope that some form of stability can be established.

The only concern I have is the matter raised by Sen. Hassan about the future without the two major protagonists. That could be a possible political solution. However, I am not sure whether it can be raised in this House. One cannot discuss the Head of State of a friendly foreign country without following certain procedures. Therefore, we cannot do that here. However, all options are open. I wish the people of South Sudan well and pray that they find lasting peace. Once more, I thank my brother, Sen. Wetangula, for raising this matter.

I support.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is a statement that has attracted a lot of interests and a matter of concern both nationally and internationally. It is an urgent matter. I request Members to give the Committee till Thursday, next week. We will then give a comprehensive answer to the issues raised. Some of the issues touch international organizations. It is good that we consult and give a proper Statement.

What is it, Sen. Wetangula? The Senate Minority Leader (Sen. Wetangula) : On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. This matter is so urgent that the Vice Chairperson cannot request the

has said that the President is engaged fulltime---

has said that the President is engaged fulltime---

Order,

Much obliged, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Order, Members! We will still go back to that particular Order on Statements. I had given my directives for committees to expedite their work, and they have been working long, hard and late. Therefore, some reports came after we had commenced. We need to go back to the Order on Papers to allow them to lay the documents for the benefit of the House. Therefore, we go back to order No.5 on the Order Paper.

Order, Sen. Dullo! In fact, your own submissions were very clear. The matters are topical, urgent and essential. In fact, the Chair was following you, knowing that you would actually talk of the next sitting day, which is tomorrow. Therefore, attempt for a response for Tuesday in entirety. If it is difficult to do so, at least, ensure that you get the very essentials on Tuesday.

Much obliged, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Order, Members! We will still go back to that particular Order on Statements. I had given my directives for committees to expedite their work, and they have been working long, hard and late. Therefore, some reports came after we had commenced. We need to go back to the Order on Papers to allow them to lay the documents for the benefit of the House. Therefore, we go back to order No.5 on the Order Paper.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, on behalf of the Chairman of the Committee on Health, I beg to lay the following Paper on the Table of the Senate today, Wednesday, 13th July, 2016:-

Report of the Standing Committee on Health on The Health Bill (National Assembly Bill No.14 of 2015) .

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, on behalf of the Chairman of the Committee on Health, I beg to lay the following Paper on the Table of the Senate today, Wednesday, 13th July, 2016:-

Report of the Standing Committee on Health on The Health Bill (National Assembly Bill No.14 of 2015) .

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I thank you for allowing me to stand on a point of order. This is an issue that I raised earlier. I will keep on raising it. It is about security in the Senate.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, when I was in the Ninth Parliament as a Member of Parliament (MP) for Kiharu, it was not possible to access Parliament Buildings or the Parliament Chamber itself if you were armed because there was a security system that could detect it and not allow you to go through. I can see there is a security system here, but I do not know whether it works or not. I would like to have that confirmation.

We invite governors and other people to come and answer certain queries. I know that on more than one occasion, some people had to be disarmed after they were found to

That is the end of that Order. Let us go back to Order No.7.

What is it, Sen. Kembi-Gitura?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I thank you for allowing me to stand on a point of order. This is an issue that I raised earlier. I will keep on raising it. It is about security in the Senate.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, when I was in the Ninth Parliament as a Member of Parliament (MP) for Kiharu, it was not possible to access Parliament Buildings or the Parliament Chamber itself if you were armed because there was a security system that could detect it and not allow you to go through. I can see there is a security system here, but I do not know whether it works or not. I would like to have that confirmation.

We invite governors and other people to come and answer certain queries. I know that on more than one occasion, some people had to be disarmed after they were found to

the Senate, Members of the National Assembly to all of us who work in this Parliament. I would like to know whether the security can be enhanced because we all need security. It should be clear that nobody can access a chamber or any committee room while armed in any way.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, there must have been a reason lady MPs, for instance, were not allowed to carry handbags into the Chamber. There was a reason men MPs were not allowed to come with rungus and things like those. There is a reason water is now served in plastic bottles and not the glasses and glass jugs we used to have in the Ninth Parliament. So, I want to plead with you that security should be taken seriously and enhanced and that everybody, regardless of who they are, particularly strangers, are frisked before they enter any committee room of the Senate or of the National Assembly or even before they can access Parliament Buildings.

I am sure that this is an issue that will be supported because everywhere in the world today, security is paramount. In Europe, you cannot access any public building without being frisked regardless of who you are or where you come from because these are matters of very great importance.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I thank you for the opportunity.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I was seeking a point of order on something else, but allow me to comment on this one as well. Those of us who happen to be Members of the County Public Accounts and Investments Committee (CPAIC) have witnessed such occasions. We do not frisk governors when they come, but you can tell that a person is armed. Recently, we had a very nasty situation in one of the committee sittings. It is fair that the matter raised by the Deputy Speaker be taken very seriously institutionally, so that nobody; whether us, visitors or whoever they are, comes with arms. If they are registered firearm holders, they should be kept under custody of somebody whom we know.

That is all I have to say, but I will be seeking---

Seek when it is necessary.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, as I support the very important point raised by the distinguished Senator for Murang’a, you may recall that in the Fifth Parliament when the late Hon. George Anyona came to the House to table documents about corruption which was going on in Mombasa, commonly known as “Karafuu”, a senior administrator sitting in the Gallery kept on pointing a gun at him on the Floor. That rule of the jungle can be very dangerous, indeed. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have been here long enough to know this. I hope some of my colleagues here are not in the habit of carrying around guns because they have bodyguards. When you enter Parliament Buildings, you should surrender your weapon to the Serjeant-at-Arms to keep it for you and only be given back when you leave the precincts of Parliament. Mr. Speaker, Sir, you have seen how reckless handling of guns is costing lives in the United States of America (USA) . You never know when a person who legitimately carries a gun turns into a lunatic and opens fire on anybody in sight. It could be anyone of us. The issue raised by the Deputy Speaker is very important, that we urge you as our leader in this House to take it up with the Parliamentary Service Commission (PSC) , so that they strengthen the management of Parliament, particularly visitors and MPs themselves who bear arms. You have seen fist fights. They could degenerate into use of arms if the people fighting have got those kinds of weapons. I remember one time in the Ninth Parliament when a Member pulled a gun to shoot another. He could have shot him if we were not there to restrain him and it was just a bar argument. This kind of danger is avoidable if the rules are enforced strictly and properly. I want to urge that even when our lady colleagues come in, their handbags

Order, Sen. (Dr.) Machage! If you are aware of where you are seated---

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I was seeking a point of order on something else, but allow me to comment on this one as well. Those of us who happen to be Members of the County Public Accounts and Investments Committee (CPAIC) have witnessed such occasions. We do not frisk governors when they come, but you can tell that a person is armed. Recently, we had a very nasty situation in one of the committee sittings. It is fair that the matter raised by the Deputy Speaker be taken very seriously institutionally, so that nobody; whether us, visitors or whoever they are, comes with arms. If they are registered firearm holders, they should be kept under custody of somebody whom we know.

That is all I have to say, but I will be seeking---

Seek when it is necessary.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, Standing Order Nos.102 and 103 give us guidance on what should be done on firearms. Standing Order No.104 talks about bags and briefcases in this House. With regard to Standing Order No.103, the Senator are only prohibited to carry firearms to the---

Order, Sen. (Dr.) Machage! If you are aware of where you are seated---

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am trying to say something.

That is for me. Say your point.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have drawn your attention to Standing Order Nos.102, 103 and 104. Let me not pre-empt what might be on your mind.

Order, Senator Ong’era! Please, finish. Let me not condemn you unheard.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to support the important point of order that was raised by Sen. Kembi-Gitura. It really behooves all of us to take care of our security.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I am a bit concerned by the point of order raised by Sen. Kembi-Gitura. Knowing him, he cannot just raise anything in abstract. Are there specific instances where people have entered Committee rooms or the Chamber while armed? Who are these people? Looking at stopping it in the future, can we first take action against them? As Sen. Wetangula has said, some of these fistfights could degenerate into gun battles. If there are people who are traversing the corridors of Parliament and the Senate with guns--- In fact, I do not think that any legislator must even cross the gate of Parliament with a firearm, notwithstanding where it is, because somebody can go pick it up and come in.

Sen. Hargura and Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. have been wondering what Sen. Kembi-Gitura is trying to say. Have these instances been reported and is there action being taken against these people? In this day and age, we cannot take things for granted. We need to know in specific terms what has been happening and the Speaker needs to give us a full report on the basis of this alarm or caution. Who are these people, so that we can avoid them whenever we see them because they are armed? When I see you and know that you have a gun---

Order, Sen. Hassan! I think you are done. Sen. Kembi-Gitura, you do not need to respond to that; I will deal with it.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to reiterate the sentiments of my colleagues; that the matter that has been raised by the Deputy Speaker is very serious. I sit in the CPAIC which deals with cases of corruption. I will not name names, but I have seen two governors appearing before the Committee while armed. I raised the issue with the Serjeant-at-Arms. I have also seen bodyguards escorting governors while armed. I thank our Serjeant-at-Arms because they have dealt with these situations. I believe that Parliament has men and women, who are fairly trained in the military and police, to take care of our security.

Order, Senator Ong’era! Please, finish. Let me not condemn you unheard.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, as the Chairman of the Committee on National Security and Foreign Relations, I am also very concerned. I personally own three small guns and three big guns – six licensed guns - but I never carry them to my office, let alone the Senate. The concern raised by the Deputy Speaker is valid. Some of the Senators have said that some governors come with bodyguards. We do not come to the Chamber with our bodyguards; we leave them in the vehicles.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, with your wisdom, I am sure that you will do something about it.

Order, Members! I want to thank the Deputy Speaker and Senator for Murang’a for bringing this issue to my attention, and also all the Members who have spoken to it. It is definitely a topical and important matter. Since there is a basis for being apprehensive, I want to commit myself. Since the incident that we had last time, I had already directed some ways in which even the sitting arrangements between witnesses and certain Members should be and the beefing up of the Serjeant-at-Arms in those situations. You have now raised additional issues which I consider extremely important in terms of that access. Everybody must be screened; there is nothing to talk about there to anybody. If the facility is not available, it will be purchased. In the meantime, every witness must be frisked before entering the Committee room or chamber.

I said “every person” In the legal use of the word “person”, every person, small or big will be frisked. I want to assure every person coming to Parliament that there will be enough security within Parliament Buildings. You do not need to carry your own battalion.

Are there statements to be sought?

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I am a bit concerned by the point of order raised by Sen. Kembi-Gitura. Knowing him, he cannot just raise anything in abstract. Are there specific instances where people have entered Committee rooms or the Chamber while armed? Who are these people? Looking at stopping it in the future, can we first take action against them? As Sen. Wetangula has said, some of these fistfights could degenerate into gun battles. If there are people who are traversing the corridors of Parliament and the Senate with guns--- In fact, I do not think that any legislator must even cross the gate of Parliament with a firearm, notwithstanding where it is, because somebody can go pick it up and come in.

Sen. Hargura and Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. have been wondering what Sen. Kembi-Gitura is trying to say. Have these instances been reported and is there action being taken against these people? In this day and age, we cannot take things for granted. We need to know in specific terms what has been happening and the Speaker needs to give us a full report on the basis of this alarm or caution. Who are these people, so that we can avoid them whenever we see them because they are armed? When I see you and know that you have a gun---

Order, Sen. Hassan! I think you are done. Sen. Kembi-Gitura, you do not need to respond to that; I will deal with it.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, about a month ago, I sought a statement from the Chairperson of the Committee on Interior regarding the recruitment of police. To date, I have not been given an answer because there was time I was away and also, the Chairperson who was supposed to give the response was away.

I, therefore, request that I get the response since it has taken too long.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Did you hear the hon. Senator say that he sought a statement from the Committee on Interior? Probably, now that explains why he has not got his statement because we do not have any Committee like that one in this House.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, as the Chairman of the Committee on National Security and Foreign Relations, I am also very concerned. I personally own three small guns and three big guns – six licensed guns - but I never carry them to my office, let alone the Senate. The concern raised by the Deputy Speaker is valid. Some of the Senators have said that some governors come with bodyguards. We do not come to the Chamber with our bodyguards; we leave them in the vehicles.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, with your wisdom, I am sure that you will do something about it.

Order, Members! I want to thank the Deputy Speaker and Senator for Murang’a for bringing this issue to my attention, and also all the Members who have spoken to it. It is definitely a topical and important matter. Since there is a basis for being apprehensive, I want to commit myself. Since the incident that we had last time, I had already directed some ways in which even the sitting arrangements between witnesses and certain Members should be and the beefing up of the Serjeant-at-Arms in those situations. You have now raised additional issues which I consider extremely important in terms of that access. Everybody must be screened; there is nothing to talk about there to anybody. If the facility is not available, it will be purchased. In the meantime, every witness must be frisked before entering the Committee room or chamber.

I said “every person” In the legal use of the word “person”, every person, small or big will be frisked. I want to assure every person coming to Parliament that there will be enough security within Parliament Buildings. You do not need to carry your own battalion.

Are there statements to be sought?

Hon. Senators, we have just been told that we have the numbers. Let us vote. That is a request that I am making to you.

Hon. Senators, we will deal with Division now; that is Order Nos.9, 10, 11 and

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Did you hear the hon. Senator say that he sought a statement from the Committee on Interior? Probably, now that explains why he has not got his statement because we do not have any Committee like that one in this House.

Nos. 9, 10, 11 and 12. Before we proceed to the others, we should dispose of them.

Hon. Senators, the results of the Division are as follows:-

Members remain in the Chamber so that we go for a Committee of the Whole and carry out a Division.

Hon. Senators, the results of the Division are as follows:-

(The Bill was accordingly read a Second Time and committed to a Committee of the Whole tomorrow) Second Reading

Hon. Senators, the results of the Division are as follows:-

the Whole tomorrow) Second Reading

Hon. Senators, the results of the Division are as follows:-

the Whole tomorrow)

Hon. Senators, the results of the Division are as follows:-

the Whole tomorrow)

Hon. Senators, we shall deal with the Committee of the Whole in the same manner that we have dealt with the previous one.

AYES: Sen. Adan, Isiolo County; Sen. (Prof.) Anyang’-Nyong’o, Kisumu County; Sen. Boy Juma Boy, Kwale County; Sen. Chelule, Nakuru County; Sen. Cheruiyot, Kericho County; Sen. Chiaba, Lamu County; Sen. Elachi, Nairobi County; Sen. Haji, Garissa County; Sen. Hassan, Mombasa, County; Sen. Hargura, Marsabit County; Sen. Kagwe, Nyeri County; Sen. Karaba, Kirinyaga County; Sen. Khaniri, Vihiga County; Sen. Kisasa, Kilifi County; Sen. (Prof.) Lesan, Bomet County; Sen. Lesuuda, Samburu County; Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo, West Pokot County; Sen. M. Kajwang, Homa Bay County; Sen. (Dr.)Machage, Migori County; Sen. Mohamud, Wajir County; Sen. (Eng.)Muriuki, Nyandarua County; Sen. Murkomen, Elgeyo-Marakwet County; Sen. Murungi, Meru County; Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr., Makueni County; Sen. Nabwala, Trans-Nzoia County; Sen. Ntutu, Narok County; Sen. Obure, Kisii County; Sen. Okong’o, Nyamira County; Sen. Omondi, Kakamega County; Sen. Sang, Nandi County and Sen. Wetangula, Bungoma County .

The Temporary Chairperson (

Hon. Senators, the results of the Division to amend the Schedule as proposed by the Committee are as follows:

Next Order.

(Question, that Clauses 3 and 4 be amended as proposed, put and the Senate proceeded to vote by County Delegations) AYES: Sen. Adan, Isiolo County; Sen. (Prof.) Anyang’-Nyong’o, Kisumu County; Sen. Boy Juma Boy, Kwale County; Sen. Chelule, Nakuru County; Sen. Cheruiyot, Kericho County; Sen. Chiaba, Lamu County; Sen. Elachi, Nairobi County; Sen. Hargura, Marsabit County; Sen. Hassan, Mombasa, County; Sen. Kagwe, Nyeri County; Sen. Karaba, Kirinyaga County; Sen. Khaniri, Vihiga County; Sen. Kisasa, Kilifi County; Sen. (Prof.) Lesan, Bomet County; Sen. Lesuuda, Samburu County; Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo, West Pokot County; Sen. M. Kajwang, Homa Bay County; Sen. (Dr.) Machage, Migori County; Sen. Mohamud, Wajir County, Sen. (Eng.) Muriuki, Nyandarua County; Sen. Murkomen, Elgeyo-Marakwet County; Sen. Murungi, Meru County; Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr., Makueni County; Sen. Nabwala, Trans-Nzoia County; Sen. Ntutu, Narok County; Sen. Obure, Kisii County; Sen. Okong’o, Nyamira County; Sen. Omondi, Kakamega County; Sen. Sang, Nandi County, and; Sen. Wetangula, Bungoma County .

Sen. Ntutu, Narok County; Sen. Obure, Kisii County; Sen. Okong’o, Nyamira County; Sen. Omondi, Kakamega County; Sen. Sang, Nandi County, and; Sen. Wetangula, Bungoma County .

Mr. Temporary Chairperson, Sir, I beg to move that the Committee do report to the Senate its considerations of the Cancer Prevention and Control (Amendment) Bill (Senate Bill No. 3 of 2015) and its approval thereof with amendments.

Sen. Khaniri seconded.

The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. (Dr.) Machage) : Let us move to Order No.15 on the Order Paper; The Kenya National Examinations Council (Amendment No.2) Bill (Senate Bill No.14 of 2015) .

Murkomen and others must have been very naughty in primary school!

Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, I beg to move that the Committee do report to the Senate its consideration of the Fisheries Management and Development Bill (National Assembly Bill No.18 of 2014) and its approval, thereof, with amendments.

Sen. Khaniri seconded.

Order Senators! We will now have the Temporary Chairperson report progress from the Committee of the Whole. Progress will be reported on all of them but we will defer the Division so that we do one Division for all of them.

Order, Members. Your Standing Orders are very explicit on the behavior while voting. Sen. Boy Juma Boy, you have to be seated.Sen. (Prof.) Lesan seconded.

Mr. Temporary Chairperson, Sir, I beg to move that the Committee do report to the Senate its considerations of the Cancer Prevention and Control (Amendment) Bill (Senate Bill No. 3 of 2015) and its approval thereof with amendments.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the House do agree with the Committee in the said report.

Sen. Obure seconded.

Mr. Temporary Chairperson, Sir, I beg to move that the Committee do report to the Senate its considerations of the Kenya National Examinations Council (Amendment No.2) Bill (Senate Bill No.14 of 2015) and its approval thereof with amendments.

Sen. Prof. Lesan seconded.

Murkomen and others must have been very naughty in primary school!

Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, I beg to move that the Committee do report to the Senate its consideration of the Fisheries Management and Development Bill (National Assembly Bill No.18 of 2014) and its approval, thereof, with amendments.

Sen. Khaniri seconded.

Order Senators! We will now have the Temporary Chairperson report progress from the Committee of the Whole. Progress will be reported on all of them but we will defer the Division so that we do one Division for all of them.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the House do agree with the Committee on the said report.

Sen. Kagwe seconded.

The Mover.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the House do agree with the Committee in the said report.

Sen. Obure seconded.

Order, Senators. That was oversight from our side. Could the Bars be withdrawn?

The Mover, could you proceed? Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the Natural Resources

Bill

(National Assembly Bill No.54 of 2015)

be now read a Third Time.

Sen. Obure seconded.

Senate Minority Leader, I hope you appreciate very well that we need to complete the business before us because we have made tremendous gains and progress this afternoon.

- That The Kenya National Examinations Council (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill (Senate Bill No. 14 of 2015) be now read a Third Time.

Sen. Hassan seconded.

amendments.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to report that the Committee of the Whole has considered The Fisheries Management and Development Bill (National Assembly Bill No. 18 of 2014) and its approval thereof with amendments.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the House do agree with the Committee in the said report.

Sen. M. Kajwang seconded.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that The Fisheries Management and Development Bill (National Assembly Bill No. 18 of 2014) be now read a Third Time.

Sen. M. Kajwang seconded.

On a point of order Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Today, several groups of school children came in and went out of the Public Gallery of the Senate and outside our tradition, we did not recognize them. It is so encouraging to these schools, when they are seated in that gallery, for us to acknowledge them. So, in future, make sure that there is communication. Let us recognize them even as we transact our business. It has become a tradition and it is crystallized.

Order, Senators. That is noted. Let us proceed to finalize the Third Reading.

Hon. Senators, we will now proceed to consider Divisions on the Third Reading for the four Bills.

We will start with The Natural Resources

Bill

(National Assembly Bill No.54 of 2015)

be now read a Third Time.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to report that the Committee of the Whole has considered The Kenya National Examinations Council (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill (Senate Bill No. 14 of 2015) and its approval thereof with amendments.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the House do agree with the Committee in the said report.

Sen. Hassan seconded.

(Question, that the Cancer Prevention and Control (Amendment) Bill (Senate Bill N0.3 of 2015 be now a read a Third Time put and the Senate proceeded to vote by County Delegations) AYES: Sen. Adan, Isiolo County; Sen. (Prof.) Anyang’-Nyong’o, Kisumu County; Sen. Boy Juma Boy, Kwale County; Sen. Chelule, Nakuru County; Sen. Cheruiyot, Kericho County; Sen. Chiaba, Lamu County; Sen. Elachi, Nairobi County; Sen. Hassan, Nairobi County; Sen. Kagwe, Nyeri County; Sen. M. Kajwang, Homa Bay County; Sen. Karaba, Kirinyaga County; Sen. Khaniri, Vihiga County; Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki, Tharaka-Nithi County; Sen. (Prof.) Lesan, Bomet County; Sen. Lesuuda, Samburu County; Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo, West Pokot County; Sen. (Dr.) Machage, Migori County; Sen. Madzayo, Kilifi County; Sen. Mohamud, Wajir County; Sen. Mositet, Kajiado County; Sen. (Eng.)Muriuki, Nyandarua County; Sen. Murkomen, Elgeyo- Marakwet County; Sen. Murungi, Meru County; Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr., Makueni County; Sen. Nabwala, Trans-Nzoia County; Sen. Ntutu, Narok County; Sen. Obure, Kisii County; Sen. Okong’o, Nyamira County; Sen. Omondi, Kakamega County; Sen. Sang, Nandi County and Sen. Wamatangi, Kiambu County.

Hon. Senators, the results of the Division are as follows:-

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to report that the Committee of the Whole has considered The Fisheries Management and Development Bill (National Assembly Bill No. 18 of 2014) and its approval thereof with amendments.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the House do agree with the Committee in the said report.

Sen. M. Kajwang seconded.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that The Fisheries Management and Development Bill (National Assembly Bill No. 18 of 2014) be now read a Third Time.

Sen. M. Kajwang seconded.

On a point of order Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Today, several groups of school children came in and went out of the Public Gallery of the Senate and outside our tradition, we did not recognize them. It is so encouraging to these schools, when they are seated in that gallery, for us to acknowledge them. So, in future, make sure that there is communication. Let us recognize them even as we transact our business. It has become a tradition and it is crystallized.

Order, Senators. That is noted. Let us proceed to finalize the Third Reading.

Hon. Senators, we will now proceed to consider Divisions on the Third Reading for the four Bills.

We will start with The Natural Resources

Bill

(National Assembly Bill No.54 of 2015)

be now read a Third Time.

Hon. Senators, as we draw the Bar and open the doors, obviously, from the outcome of this Division, one Member did not vote in the last Division. The outcome in all the other Divisions is 31, but in the last Division, it is 30. The clerks should find out who did not vote, as you know, that is out of order.

Hon. Senators, we are done with the Divisions. We now go back to the Order on Statements.

Order, Senator. Sen. Hassan, you are completely out of order. We are on Order No. 7 on Statements. You are speaking to a matter to be considered under Order No. 8. We will deal with those issues when we get there.

Let us proceed to Statements. We were remaining with some Statements that needed to be sought. Is there anyone who wants to seek a Statement?

Hon. Senators, the results of the Division are as follows:-

It is so ordered.

Hon. Senators, the results of the Division are as follows:-

Wamatangi, Kiambu County.

ordinary people to do what is currently happening?

Hon. Senators, as we draw the Bar and open the doors, obviously, from the outcome of this Division, one Member did not vote in the last Division. The outcome in all the other Divisions is 31, but in the last Division, it is 30. The clerks should find out who did not vote, as you know, that is out of order.

Hon. Senators, we are done with the Divisions. We now go back to the Order on Statements.

Jambo la nidhamu, Bw. Spika wa Muda. Kesho umeitisha kikao maalum cha Seneti. Vile vile, Kamati nyingi zimetangaza mikutano kesho. Kwa hivyo, kesho kuna uwezekano wa kupata shida ya idadi ya kupitisha Miswada katika Seneti. Ningependa utoe amri kwamba vikao vyote vya Kamati vihairishwe mpaka tutakapomaliza kikao maalum cha Bunge. Nimepata jumbe kwenye simu kuhusu mikutano mbali mbali ya Kamati kesho. Karibu kila Kamati iko na kikao, ilhali tuko na kikao maalum cha Seneti.

Asante Bw. Spika wa Muda. Jambo hili ni la ajabu na la kusikitisha sana. Ningependa kusema kwamba, jambo hili la kupoteza wananchi wetu kila wakati ni la ajabu. Serikali lazima iwajibike.

Kama mwakilishi wa Kaunti ya Tana River, hili ni jambo la kawaida. Tumepoteza vijana takribani 30 wakiwemo wachungaji. Hatuwezi kulaumu Serikali ama Al-Shabab lakini ni mujibu wa Serikali kuajibika. Serikali lazima iwajibike na kutuarifu linalofanyika na anayehusika.

Bw. Spika wa Muda, tunataka tuwe na mbinu mwafaka za kuhakikisha kwamba haya yamekoma.

Asante.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I would like to add my voice to what has been raised by colleagues. The magnitude of abductions and extra-judicial killings that we are experiencing in the country qualifies to make the matter a national crisis. This is not the time for finger-pointing, blame game or making reference to particular Ministries. It is time for the nation to come up with lasting solutions.

We need to be sober and serious when dealing with this issue. This is because when it gets to a point that even those we expect to give security to us are the suspects, then we do not know whom to turn to. Even as a witness, you are not sure whether the police officer interrogating and collecting evidence from you will not kill you later in the night.

This is so serious a matter that if we do not deal with it, we will have a judicial system that is completely useless. No one will offer himself as a witness because he will fear for his life. Lawyers will also become very choosy on the cases to handle because they will fear that if a case is sensitive, they will be abducted and killed because of simply doing their professional duty.

We cannot just expect the line Ministry to give an appropriate answer to this. We demand from the line Ministry and the Executive arm of the Government to bring to the Senate a proposal that is serious and which will stop these senseless killings. What action is the Government putting in place to ensure that we end up with a special department and trained force that will interrogate this matter to give us a lasting solution?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the issue of the people reported to have been abducted and killed, extra-judicial killings and other disappearances is very disturbing. I would like the Chairperson to come up with two

President has been completely mute? They said nothing when Mr. Jacob Juma was killed as well as when Mr. Willy Kimani, the taxi driver and his client were killed. They have continued to keep quiet as more extra-judicial killings take place.

Secondly, I would like the Chairperson to speak on whether there is any nexus between these killings, especially of the lawyer and the current ongoing vetting of senior police officers.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, this is a very important issue and I would like to pick up from where Sen. Ongoro anchored. We Senators and Members of the National Assembly have no time or skill to look into this matter. We shall depend on evidence given to us by those in Government to make decisions. Why go around it? I believe that we have a National Intelligence Service (NIS) which is a great improvement on the former Special Branch whose responsibility is to provide intelligence to Government in all sectors of life; economy, security and defence. We also have the military police who give special intelligence to the military.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the Government has necessary arms that can deal with this issue. What we should recommend along the lines of Sen. Ongoro is for the President to recognize that there is a national crisis of insecurity for all Kenyan people irrespective of ethnic identity or religion, anybody and everybody is endangered because of the wanton killings.

In my own City, Kisumu, a week does not pass without hearing of somebody was stopped at night by a motorbike rider and shot or somebody was abducted and the body found somewhere in a sugarcane plantation. Some of these incidences do not reach the limelight of the media.

We need to have a thorough national investigation on this matter. We, as the Senate, through the relevant Committee, can help shape the issue by calling the relevant Cabinet Secretary and propose that a commission of inquiry be established by the Government. That commission should be given a specific time framework to report and recommend concrete actions that the Government will take to stop these extra-judicial killings.

Our responsibility is straightforward; to frame the problem, propose the kind of committee to be formed, draft our terms of reference that we propose to them and give them a time action plan to do that. However, if we take it upon ourselves to form a Committee like my friend, Sen. Murkomen says, a joint committee between us and the National Assembly, we are not going to deliver the kind of product that is needed urgently to deal with this issue.

ordinary people to do what is currently happening?

timeframe to respond to this particular issue, we also look at the riders that have come from the Senators in terms of widening the scope of this particular issue.

This issue should be taken more seriously. Therefore, the Chairperson of the Committee on National Security and Foreign Relations---

What is your point of order, Sen. Sijeny?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I forgot. I wish to present a rider on it. May I do so with your permission? It is on the same issue. The other day, it was reported in the media that in Oldonyo Sabuk River, there are young people who retrieve bodies. That is how they earn a living. Every now and then, they are called upon to retrieve bodies. We want thorough investigations to be done around that river. We should know why bodies are being dumped there every now and then. It is sufficient for people to survive on it. That is a very serious issue.

Asante Bw. Spika wa Muda. Jambo hili ni la ajabu na la kusikitisha sana. Ningependa kusema kwamba, jambo hili la kupoteza wananchi wetu kila wakati ni la ajabu. Serikali lazima iwajibike.

Kama mwakilishi wa Kaunti ya Tana River, hili ni jambo la kawaida. Tumepoteza vijana takribani 30 wakiwemo wachungaji. Hatuwezi kulaumu Serikali ama Al-Shabab lakini ni mujibu wa Serikali kuajibika. Serikali lazima iwajibike na kutuarifu linalofanyika na anayehusika.

Bw. Spika wa Muda, tunataka tuwe na mbinu mwafaka za kuhakikisha kwamba haya yamekoma.

Asante.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, thank you for this important question that has been raised. Last weekend, we buried a Kenya Defence Force (KDF) soldier in my county who had been killed under mysterious circumstances. He had worked in various places including Somalia. It is sad that a soldier can serve in Somalia and escape death from Al-Shabaab but come to die under mysterious circumstances at home and yet we think it is normal.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, what we have been seeing in the country is something that we should not take lightly. We should know that every life counts. As Sen. Murkomen said, after we get the answers to these questions, we need to get a proper update on what is going on in this country. This is something that we cannot take lightly or ignore.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I would like to add my voice to what has been raised by colleagues. The magnitude of abductions and extra-judicial killings that we are experiencing in the country qualifies to make the matter a national crisis. This is not the time for finger-pointing, blame game or making reference to particular Ministries. It is time for the nation to come up with lasting solutions.

We need to be sober and serious when dealing with this issue. This is because when it gets to a point that even those we expect to give security to us are the suspects, then we do not know whom to turn to. Even as a witness, you are not sure whether the police officer interrogating and collecting evidence from you will not kill you later in the night.

This is so serious a matter that if we do not deal with it, we will have a judicial system that is completely useless. No one will offer himself as a witness because he will fear for his life. Lawyers will also become very choosy on the cases to handle because they will fear that if a case is sensitive, they will be abducted and killed because of simply doing their professional duty.

We cannot just expect the line Ministry to give an appropriate answer to this. We demand from the line Ministry and the Executive arm of the Government to bring to the Senate a proposal that is serious and which will stop these senseless killings. What action is the Government putting in place to ensure that we end up with a special department and trained force that will interrogate this matter to give us a lasting solution?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the issue of the people reported to have been abducted and killed, extra-judicial killings and other disappearances is very disturbing. I would like the Chairperson to come up with two

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I request the Committee Chairperson and the clerks to expeditiously forward the question, a copy to the Ministry and another one to the Inspector General (IG) of Police. I undertake to do a follow up and bring a response on Tuesday next week.

The Statement shall be issued on Tuesday next week. I also direct that the HANSARD of today’s proceedings with regard to this matter be forwarded to the Committee so that a number of the other riders over and above the statement sought by Sen. Cheruiyot can be addressed appropriately.

We will proceed to the next statement by Sen. Madzayo and then we will come to the final one by Sen. Lesuuda.

Thank you, Senators. This is a statement sought on behalf of the Chair by the Senator for Kericho. This is an important issue for me because to have five children between ages 8 and 16 years disappear; and only for two bodies to be found mutilated with some parts of their bodies missing, is a serious matter.

As Sen. (Prof.) Anyang'- Nyong'o has said, this has escaped the attention of the media. Such a serious issue affecting the future of this country and the children in such a remote village in Nandi County has managed to escape the attention of the media. I,

Hon. Senator, as you proceed with that Statement, just for the record, has it been approved by the Speaker?

Yes, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

Okay, proceed. You will deliver a copy to the Clerks-at-the-Table.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I thought they have a copy.

Where is the Chairperson or any Member of the Committee on National Security and Foreign Relations?

Proceed, Sen. Hargura.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I undertake that the Chairperson will provide a response in two weeks’ time.

Sen. Madzayo, is that okay with you?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the assaulted person is at home. He has not been given the P3 Form. It is over a week. I am afraid. The P3 Form should be filled when the person has fresh wounds. It is important that the Chairperson assures the House that in a week’s time, he will respond. It is a straightforward matter. It has generated a lot of interest countrywide. Citizens are being tortured by police. Some are killed and others harmed like in this case. I urge the Chairperson to hasten the process and make it about seven days. Next week on Thursday will be quite appropriate.

I am sure Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale can advise us how urgent it is to fill a P3 Form as indicated by Sen. Madzayo, who is my senior in the profession.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, because of that part, that there is some urgency, then we will communicate immediately to the relevant Ministry and the IG so that in that process even the documentation could be speeded up.

So, we work with Thursday next week?

Yes, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, if it is about completing the P3 Form, I do not know whether the distinguished Senator can afford my fee.

Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, you are famed as mtetezi wa wanyonge. You are now threatening the wanyonge with very high service fee for you to fill in the P3 form. I hope Sen. Hargura can expedite the process and make sure we have a response even if it is by Thursday next week.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, with maximum respect, allow me to correct the assumption you want to leave the House with; that I am abdicating my role of mtetezi. Our medical oath is very clear that under emergency situations like what happened in the High Court the other day when one of the “Pangani Six” collapsed in court, we not only give service, but we give for free. However, when it is sought out in the manner that he is saying, then we are allowed to give a fee note.

Sen. Madzayo will receive the response on Thursday next week.

Sen. Madzayo, is that okay with you?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the assaulted person is at home. He has not been given the P3 Form. It is over a week. I am afraid. The P3 Form should be filled when the person has fresh wounds. It is important that the Chairperson assures the House that in a week’s time, he will respond. It is a straightforward matter. It has generated a lot of interest countrywide. Citizens are being tortured by police. Some are killed and others harmed like in this case. I urge the Chairperson to hasten the process and make it about seven days. Next week on Thursday will be quite appropriate.

I am sure Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale can advise us how urgent it is to fill a P3 Form as indicated by Sen. Madzayo, who is my senior in the profession.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, because of that part, that there is some urgency, then we will communicate immediately to the relevant Ministry and the IG so that in that process even the documentation could be speeded up.

So, we work with Thursday next week?

Yes, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, if it is about completing the P3 Form, I do not know whether the distinguished Senator can afford my fee.

Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, you are famed as mtetezi wa wanyonge. You are now threatening the wanyonge with very high service fee for you to fill in the P3 form. I hope Sen. Hargura can expedite the process and make sure we have a response even if it is by Thursday next week.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, with maximum respect, allow me to correct the assumption you want to leave the House with; that I am abdicating my role of mtetezi. Our medical oath is very clear that under emergency situations like what happened in the High Court the other day when one of the “Pangani Six” collapsed in court, we not only give service, but we give for free. However, when it is sought out in the manner that he is saying, then we are allowed to give a fee note.

Sen. Madzayo will receive the response on Thursday next week.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, they had asked for one week and it passed a long time ago and I have not been given the Statement.

The Deputy Senate Majority Leader, this is not a fresh statement being sought but that is already overdue---

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I want to find out if the Statement could be provided by Tuesday next week. I will appreciate.

Mr. Temporary Speaker Sir, I am much obliged.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

Sen. Sijeny, what is your point of order?

Mr. Temporary Speaker Sir, I beg to move the following Motion:-

THAT, pursuant to Standing Order 33 (b) , the Senate resolves to meet on Thursday, 14th July, 2016, from 9:30 a.m. to 12:30 p.m.

This is a straightforward Motion, since as a House we have pending Bills which have constitutional deadlines. They have been pending in our House for long. Gladly, today, we did tremendous work to ensure that we dispose most of those Bills. There are many other pending Bills like The Forest Conservation and Management Bill

(National Assembly Bill No. 49 of 2015)

, The Health Bill

(National Assembly Bill No. 14 of 2105)

, The Protection of Traditional Knowledge and Cultural Expression Bill

(National Assembly Bill No. 48 of 2015)

, the Energy Bill

(National Assembly Bill No. 50 of 2015)

, The Access to Information Bill

(National Assembly Bill No. 36 of 2015)

, The Petroleum

Bill

(National Assembly Bill No. 44 of 2015)

and The Seeds and Plants Varieties

(Amendment)

Bill

( National Assembly Bill No. 43 of 2015)

.

All these Bills are supposed to bring into effect the new Constitution and their deadline has been extended severally. The most important thing about these Bills is the role of this House, which is to bring the county governments into play when it comes to questions that relate to matters like energy, protection of the environment, petroleum, fisheries management and development, and; forest conservation.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I would like to speak to the Health Bill (National Bill No.14 of 2015) to emphasize that the Health Bill has been pending for a long time. The Bill is very critical because the health sector is one of the devolved functions under our Constitution. This is a very important social function and very critical to the well- being of the country, yet, we have no enabling legal framework that can define the relationship between the national and county governments, that deal with the definition of a referral hospital, the expectation of the graduation of a hospital from county to national referral and the mobility of staff from one county to another.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale will agree with me that the greatest disadvantage that health staff go through is the fact that we have segmented the counties into 47 public services. Mobility, for example, from Kakamega to Uasin Gishu County has become very difficult. It is our responsibility to provide uniform norms and standards of practice that will today make it possible for a young man working in Mandera to transfer to work in Nairobi under the terms that are provided for in law that are uniform. These terms should protect their pension and jobs.

This sector affects women a lot. Young ladies who are employed and working in different places and get married should be able to swap to another county. Since this is not possible because there is no enabling legal framework, most of our health staff have felt disenfranchised.

The Deputy Senate Majority Leader.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I could repeat the Statement if they want me to.

is nothing that we can rush around without the involvement of everybody.

You may also include Sen. Ongoro.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for a different reason, I deliberately did not want to mention Sen. Ongoro because in most cases, she manages the process from that Chair. At that point in time, you do not want her to say you are out of order. Of course, she does a fantastic work. If Sen. Ongoro was the same Senator that sits on that Chair, definitely, we would be making a lot of progress in other areas. She is a wonderful manager when she sits on the other side but she also has fears about the Orange Democratic Movement (ODM) and the Coalition for Reforms and Democracy (CORD) when she sits on the other side; a role that perhaps suits her very well. I have never heard her being referred to as “a mole”. I think she is a fanatic of the other side. I say that on a light note.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I request our Members to do the same so that we move forward. This is a very straightforward Motion. Now that you mentioned Sen. Ongoro, I request her to second.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I second.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I rise to support this Motion, but wish to make it abundantly clear that it is always difficult to support a Motion by the Jubilee leadership. The fact that I am supporting this Motion---

sat and expanded the number of committees in this Senate. Maybe with the benefit of hindsight, we should not have done that. We need to re-merge smaller committees into few and meaningful committees so as to create room for quorum in these committees and for business to be condensed in those committees, so that we can rise to the occasion.

Madam Temporary Speaker, if you take, for example, the County Public Accounts and Investments Committee (PAIC) where I sit, the backlog has started worrying me. It looks like this Senate might conclude the Reports of the Auditor-General on only one financial year; 2013/2014. The work is heavy. The case is not different from the Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget. For this reason, I want to support this Motion, as an acknowledgement of the fact that we are starting to have too much work in our hands.

Secondly, we also sat and passed that this House should not be sitting on Wednesday mornings. Again, we must reconsider this, so that we do the traditional parliamentary way where we sit Tuesday afternoon, Wednesday morning, Wednesday afternoon and Thursday afternoon.

is nothing that we can rush around without the involvement of everybody.

You may also include Sen. Ongoro.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for a different reason, I deliberately did not want to mention Sen. Ongoro because in most cases, she manages the process from that Chair. At that point in time, you do not want her to say you are out of order. Of course, she does a fantastic work. If Sen. Ongoro was the same Senator that sits on that Chair, definitely, we would be making a lot of progress in other areas. She is a wonderful manager when she sits on the other side but she also has fears about the Orange Democratic Movement (ODM) and the Coalition for Reforms and Democracy (CORD) when she sits on the other side; a role that perhaps suits her very well. I have never heard her being referred to as “a mole”. I think she is a fanatic of the other side. I say that on a light note.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I request our Members to do the same so that we move forward. This is a very straightforward Motion. Now that you mentioned Sen. Ongoro, I request her to second.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I second.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I rise to support this Motion, but wish to make it abundantly clear that it is always difficult to support a Motion by the Jubilee leadership. The fact that I am supporting this Motion---

On a point of order Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Is it in order for Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale to try to call this a Motion of the Jubilee leadership, when actually it is a Motion of the Senate Business Committee, where the Senate Majority Leader, the Senate Minority Leaders, other Members of that Committee and I agreed to sit tomorrow morning to conduct the business of the Senate, and not the business of the Jubilee Government?

Sen. Murkomen, how did you expect Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale who does not sit in the Senate Business Committee to know that?

Proceed, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale.

marginal note-

Public Forest Policy

Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, my brother, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, is trying to make me do a lot of what we used to call in primary school ‘hard work’. Correcting the notation on the side of a Bill does not need an explanation. The import of changing the Bill to denote ‘national’ in forestry matters is coming in the next amendment, which will be more substantial than this preliminary one.

The Temporary Chairperson

(Sen. Sang)

: Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, since you are a sharp legislator, the Chairperson believes that you should have understood, since much of the amendment deals with the formatting and marginal notes, but I think you have a point.

Clause 6

Governor through pilferage, haemorrhage and theft right, left and centre.

I, therefore, support this Motion and hope that we will not pass this Motion in vain. May the Senate Deputy Majority Leader also, by dint of this energy that he has moved this Motion, ensure that – especially the Jubilee side which is very notorious for not bringing in enough Members – we will be here in the morning.

I support.

- THAT, Clause 8 of the Bill be amended in Paragraph

(f)

by deleting the word ‘national’ appearing immediately after the words ‘ceremonial use of’ and substituting thereof the word ‘public’. Again, we are aligning the law with the Constitution. The forests will not be national forests but public forests.

The Temporary Chairperson

(Sen. Sang)

: Division will be at the end. Clause 9

- THAT, Clause 5 be amended-

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, the Mover is making a small error. In sub-clause (3) , he has only spoken of the “Director- General.” Please, note that the word “Director-General” also appears in sub-clauses (4) and (5) . For purposes of record, he should indicate that he is replacing the word “Director-General” in all the clauses and sub-clauses where they appear with “Chief Conservator of Forests”.

Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale may have forgotten that this came earlier on, and I said that wherever in this Bill, the word “Director-General” appears, we have replaced it with the words “Chief Conservator of Forests”. In the same vein, wherever we have “national forests”, we have replaced it with “public forests” unless he needs me to keep on reading the same thing. I said that in sub- clauses

(1)

,

(3)

,

(4)

and

(5)

, the content of the amendment is exactly the same.

We shall have Division at the end. Clauses 15 - 19

The Temporary Chairperson

(Sen. Sang)

: Division will be at the end. Clause 20

Mover.

- THAT, Clause 20 of the Bill be amended in sub-clause (4) paragraph (a) by deleting the words “a chairman” and substituting therefor the words “a chairperson”. This is obviously to take care of gender issues regarding whoever may be the Chair. It does not have to be a man.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Chairperson, Sir. The good English that we speak does not agree with the justification that the Chairperson is giving. He is suggesting that if we use the word “Chairman”, we shall be insensitive to gender. In the good English that we speak, we know that the word “Chairman” when used in this manner is unisex. Where you think while speaking that it is not clear, then you add to the word “Chairman” the word “Madam.”

Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, since you are a sharp legislator, the Chairperson believes that you should have understood, since much of the amendment deals with the formatting and marginal notes, but I think you have a point. (Question of the amendment proposed) Clause 6

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Chairperson, Sir. Vocabulary keeps changing all the time. We are in a new format of approaching gender issue moving towards “Chairperson” rather than “Chairman.” Yes, the connotation “Chairman” can also mean woman but why should we have doubts about it? Why do we not just go for “person” rather than have “man” and say man also can be a woman. The vogue and practice now is to move towards “chairperson” rather than “chairman.”

The Senate Minority Leader (Sen. Wetangula):

- THAT, Clause 6 be amended-

Mr. Temporary Chairperson, Sir, we are being academic. I have seen many new legislations and literature particularly when it comes to international matters. The move is to drift away from using “Chairman” in almost all documentations. I do not know if you would want us to vote on a small matter like this; whether to use “Chairman” or “Chairperson.” I propose that we go by the findings of the Committee because we interrogated this matter not as an individual but as a Committee. We had public participation to that effect. We listened to feelings and sentiments of many contributors. I would like to convince my colleagues, including, the Senate Minority Leader. I do not think this would dilute the content of the Bill if we recognise the gender issue.

- THAT, Clause 8 of the Bill be amended in Paragraph (f) by deleting the word ‘national’ appearing immediately after the words ‘ceremonial use of’ and substituting thereof the word ‘public’. Again, we are aligning the law with the Constitution. The forests will not be national forests but public forests. (Question of the amendment proposed) The Temporary Chairperson (

Division will be at the end. Clause 9

(Question of the amendment proposed) Let us have the Senate Minority Leader.

Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, there is logic in what we are saying. Why is God referred to as “He” and not as “person” in the Bible? Why have our sisters; the womenfolk, not contested the masculine description of God?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, before I move--- The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Sang) : Just proceed to move.

Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, I beg to move, pursuant to Standing Order No.139, that the Committee do report progress on its consideration of the Forest Conversation and Management Bill (National Assembly Bill No.49 of 2015) and seek leave to sit again tomorrow.

- THAT clause 14 of the Bill be amended in-

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, the Mover is making a small error. In sub-clause (3) , he has only spoken of the “Director- General.” Please, note that the word “Director-General” also appears in sub-clauses (4) and (5) . For purposes of record, he should indicate that he is replacing the word “Director-General” in all the clauses and sub-clauses where they appear with “Chief Conservator of Forests”.

The Mover.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the House do agree with the Committee on the said report.

Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale seconded.

Hon. Senators, it is now time to interrupt the business of the Senate. Therefore, the Senate stands adjourned until tomorrow, Thursday, 14th July, 2016, at 9.30 a.m.

The Senate rose at 6.35 p.m.

- THAT, Clause 20 of the Bill be amended in sub-clause (4) paragraph (a) by deleting the words “a chairman” and substituting therefor the words “a chairperson”. This is obviously to take care of gender issues regarding whoever may be the Chair. It does not have to be a man.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Chairperson, Sir. The good English that we speak does not agree with the justification that the Chairperson is giving. He is suggesting that if we use the word “Chairman”, we shall be insensitive to gender. In the good English that we speak, we know that the word “Chairman” when used in this manner is unisex. Where you think while speaking that it is not clear, then you add to the word “Chairman” the word “Madam.”

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Chairperson, Sir. Vocabulary keeps changing all the time. We are in a new format of approaching gender issue moving towards “Chairperson” rather than “Chairman.” Yes, the connotation “Chairman” can also mean woman but why should we have doubts about it? Why do we not just go for “person” rather than have “man” and say man also can be a woman. The vogue and practice now is to move towards “chairperson” rather than “chairman.”

Mr. Temporary Chairperson, Sir, we are being academic. I have seen many new legislations and literature particularly when it comes to international matters. The move is to drift away from using “Chairman” in almost all documentations. I do not know if you would want us to vote on a small matter like this; whether to use “Chairman” or “Chairperson.” I propose that we go by the findings of the Committee because we interrogated this matter not as an individual but as a Committee. We had public participation to that effect. We listened to feelings and sentiments of many contributors. I would like to convince my colleagues, including, the Senate Minority Leader. I do not think this would dilute the content of the Bill if we recognise the gender issue.

Mr. Temporary Chairperson, Sir, this is not a small matter. It is so important that even in the Constitution the drafters went out of their way and wrote that the official language is Kiswahili and English. Therefore, if it is official, then when making that record, you should do it in good English. You and the Senate Minority Leader have confirmed that, in law, the word Chairman is unisex. We are making law. What better place to write the word “Chairman” than this one? Maybe, Chairman of the Committee, we do not have to vote about it. You should consider just withdrawing that amendment because you have that power. This is so that we do things in proper English. I want my daughter, when she is reading aspects of law as I contributed here, to know that we are doing it in proper English. Have you ever known how bad it feels when your child speaks broken English? The Temporary Chairperson (

Sen. (Dr.) Zani. Mr. Temporary Chairperson, Sir, when we say man or woman, there is a difference. A man is a man and a woman is a woman. There is both the biological and the social contrast. It is exactly that, that we are running away from. The legal position that “chairman” represents both is a position that people still debate. That is why people are slowly moving towards being progressive. This is because when we say chairman, it can be a man or a woman. Why presume that we have to say man and that will be inclusive of woman?

keep changing and improving and even that definition can change so that we move from chairman to chairperson as the right terminology to be used. We cannot say that we are going to use chairman because it has been used before and that there is a legal premise for it. Is there a legal premise for the word chairperson?The Temporary Chairperson (

Very well. This is a matter that could go either way. I must indicate that in a number of Bills that we have considered in this House, we have used the word Chairperson and those were legislations. So, whereas the legal definition of chairman would include a woman chairperson, that is still okay, but the practice in the recent past in the Bills that we have presented in our Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights, we have used Chairman when referring to the person chairing.Since this matter will be voted on, those who have an issue with it can vote against, and those who are uncomfortable can express their position at the vote.

(Question of the amendment proposed) Let us have the Senate Minority Leader.

Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, there is logic in what we are saying. Why is God referred to as “He” and not as “person” in the Bible? Why have our sisters; the womenfolk, not contested the masculine description of God?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, before I move--- The Temporary Chairperson (

Just proceed to move.

Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, I beg to move, pursuant to Standing Order No.139, that the Committee do report progress on its consideration of the Forest Conversation and Management Bill (National Assembly Bill No.49 of 2015) and seek leave to sit again tomorrow.

The Mover.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the House do agree with the Committee on the said report.

Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale seconded.

Hon. Senators, it is now time to interrupt the business of the Senate. Therefore, the Senate stands adjourned until tomorrow, Thursday, 14th July, 2016, at 9.30 a.m.

The Senate rose at 6.35 p.m.