Moses Otieno Kajwang'

Sen. M. Kajwang’

Sen. M. Kajwang’

Sen. M. Kajwang’

Sen. M. Kajwang’

Sen. M. Kajwang’ Which Standing Order are you referring to?

Sen. M. Kajwang’ Let me just look at my Standing Orders. The one that I know does not allow a Senator to speak twice on the same issue. Let me just check and give you further guidance. I am looking at the provisions of Standing Order No.92, which talks about...

Sen. M. Kajwang’

Sen. M. Kajwang’ Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, I rise to support the Motion that the House do adopts the reports of the County Public Accounts and Investments Committee for the counties that have been mentioned. This is one of the most important functions and duties we have as a House....

Sen. M. Kajwang’

Sen. M. Kajwang’

Sen. M. Kajwang’

Sen. M. Kajwang’ On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. May 12, 2020 SENATE DEBATES 40 Sen. M. Kajwang’ Having been the Chairperson of CPAIC, I can tell you that the post-mortem approach will not help this House. It is for the leadership to come up with a...

Well done. Very inspiring remarks from Sen. M. Kajwang’. Sen. Wambua, you have not been around. We have spent the whole afternoon on this matter, but I will grant you one minute because you are a late comer. You must have gone for tea or lunch.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, kindly make it three minutes.

Sen. M. Kajwang’

Sen. M. Kajwang’ Thank you. I see no further requests. I now call upon the Mover to reply. Mover, you have approximately four minutes. May 12, 2020 SENATE DEBATES 59 Sen. M. Kajwang’ We are all in this together. However, those in a more painful position are those who have...

In light of time, you have about two to three minutes. Sen. M. Kajwang’ Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. My other concern with this Bill is that it proposes that the fund shall be used to provide economic remedies to those affected. A pandemic is a disused passport. Resolving...

Thank you. I see no further requests. I now call upon the Mover to reply. Mover, you have approximately four minutes.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Allow me to appreciate all the Senators who have contributed to this Bill. I also wish to remind them that we are still taking in submissions in the course of this week. I beg to reply.

What else do you beg to do other than to reply in the context of the numbers in the House or do you want me to ring the bell?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, you can defer the Division to another suitable day.

Is that your application?

Sen. M. Kajwang' Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to add my voice to the Petition by residents of Ganjoni, Mombasa County, on the loading and unloading of iron ore, and the health hazards that they face. This Petition is a clear indication that all the other institutions that have been...

Sen. M. Kajwang’ Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to state that I agree with the Acting Cabinet Secretary (CS) for National Treasury and Planning proposal to Parliament to stop the release of funds to the counties that were mentioned. I also rise to say that I agree with the Auditor...

Sen. M. Kajwang’ Order, Members. The Senator for Nandi is out of Order. You should have only read your Statement. I just gave you some latitude which you are now overstretching. You just need to read your Statement and let other people contribute. Sen. Cherargei, are you through? (Loud consultations)

Order, Members. The Senator for Nandi is out of Order. You should have only read your Statement. I just gave you some latitude which you are now overstretching. You just need to read your Statement and let other people contribute. Sen. Cherargei, are you through?

Sen. M. Kajwang’ Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, yes, it has to do with procedure. Allow me to first reveal that I am one of the greatest supporters of women, not just in this House but in this Republic---

Sen. M. Kajwang’ Yes, including women Senators. Indeed my grandfather had seven wives. I believe that I am what I am because of that multiplicity of grandmothers. However, as a matter of procedure and as a Chairperson of a Committee, I have been told before and you will have to...

Sen. M. Kajwang’ Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, yes, a matter for the House. It should not even be contemplated since the Committee has gone through a vote process and certain steps; there has been quality assurance that has been carried on that document by no less than a secretariat of...

Sen. M. Kajwang’ Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.51 (1) (b) to make a Statement on the activities of the Sessional Committee on County Public Accounts and Investments for the period commencing 1st July to 30th September, (Loud consultations)

Sen. M. Kajwang Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Deputy Auditor-General, responsible for Corporate Services informed the Committee that without the substantive auditor, there was no acting person in the position of the Auditor-General, following the expiry of the tenure of Dr. Edward Ouko, as per the law. Hence the officer...

Sen. M. Kajwang’ Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to report that the plan to meet the 15 county executives is on course. We have already met most of the counties. I would like to make the final observations briefly on one or two issues that we feel that...

Sen. M. Kajwang' Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move the following Motion- THAT, the Senate adopts the Report of the Sessional Committee on County Public Accounts and Investments on the inquiry into the Financial Operations of Kiambu, Busia, Kwale, Tana River, Trans Nzoia, Nyandarua, Migori, Kisumu, Samburu, Kericho,...

Sen. M. Kajwang Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. In respect to your directions and to Sen. (Dr.) Langat who moved the Motion of Adjournment, I beg to reply. November 26, 2019 SENATE DEBATES 47 Sen. M. KajwangI want it to go on record that this will be the 63rd...

Sen. M. Kajwang Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I request that you defer putting the question to a later date pursuant to Standing Order No. 61 (3) .

Sen. M. Kajwang' On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

Sen. M. Kajwang' Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I was requesting for an opportunity to join Sen. (Dr.) Zani in welcoming the group from Strathmore University. If you give me a minute, I will do so very fast.

Sen. M. Kajwang' Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I heard Sen. (Dr.) Zani mention my name. Naturally, I rose to defend myself from imaginary forces.

Sen. M. Kajwang' Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, allow me to welcome the team from Strathmore University. I believe that this mission is extremely important to them because they are members of the debating club. When we were in school, we looked up to the Members of the legislature because they...

Sen. M. Kajwang’ On a point order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

Sen. M. Kajwang’ Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, is the Senator for Narok in order to disclaim the role of the national Government when it comes to disaster management yet in the Fourth Schedule of the Constitution, the 24th function of the national Government is disaster management, including some of the...

Sen. M. Kajwang’ Thank you. It is not easy to be a Chairperson of a Committee, particularly, of the Justice, Legal Affairs and Human Rights, considering that, that is the Committee where all the senior counsel in this House find their place. I congratulate Sen. Cherargei, the Chairperson of that...

Sen. M. Kajwang’ Thank you. Kindly wind up! (Laughter) [The Temporary Speaker (Sen. (Dr.) Lelegwe) left the Chair] [The Temporary Speaker (Sen. Sakaja) in the Chair]

Sen. M. Kajwang’

Sen. M. Kajwang’ Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I was on the queue to also make similar sentiments. I will be brief because we have already been forewarned of the consequences that can befall us. (Laughter) Thank you, Sen. M. Kajwang’. Those are very good interventions. This is a...

Sen. M. Kajwang'

Sen. M. Kajwang'

Sen. M. Kajwang'

Sen. M. Kajwang' Indeed, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, it is a significant matter which is normally handled by the Council of Elders. We have told our Council of Elders that they need to focus less on politics, and more on such issues that put young boys and girls at a...

Sen. M Kajwang’, that example sounds like a very serious issue. I hope that you are doing more about it, as the Senator for Homa Bay, including raising awareness for the members of that clan who are in Nairobi or elsewhere. It can be very disconcerting.

Sen. M Kajwang’

Indeed, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, it is a significant matter which is normally handled by the Council of Elders. We have told our Council of Elders that they need to focus less on politics, and more on such issues that put young boys and girls at a great disadvantage. I...

Sen. M Kajwang’

make them stand trial in the contemporary courts in Uganda, send all of them to the International Criminal Court (ICC) or use a traditional approach. Eventually, the Acholi, the community which was mostly affected opted to go for a traditional dispute resolution system called mato oput. This helped because there...

Sen. M Kajwang’ Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, it is directly and not through the taxes. If a person is committed to jail on account of a civil debt, it is the complainant who will feed him or her. It is untidy. You will find that space in our correctional facilities...

Sen. M. Kajwang Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I support the Bill.

Sen. M. Kajwang Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I start by acknowledging and thanking all the Senators who have contributed to this Bill. I have taken a lot of notes and comments most definitely for improvement. The last few speakers have coloured it well.

Sen. M. Kajwang'Our experience in the County Public Accounts and Investment Committee (CPAIC), where we are required to open up the ‘servers’ or the books of counties, is that we sometimes find that the county governments do not want to be open and transparent with the auditors. They do not...

Hon. Senators, since there are no more requests, I now proceed to put the question. However, before I put the question, the matter raised by this Motion does not affect counties. (Question put and agreed to) Hon. Senators, regarding the Communication of the Speaker yesterday regarding orders that are present...

Sen. M. Kajwang'meetings, she is discharging a mandate that is much bigger than Nakuru, Kenya and Africa.Being President of the Bureau of the Forum for Women which brings together 179 member States is no mean task. Doing so in an organisation that is 130 years old makes it even much...

I now call upon the Mover, Sen. Kihika, to reply.

Sen. M. Kajwang'

Sen. M. Kajwang'

Sen. M. Kajwang’

Sen. M. Kajwang’ Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, in light of the submissions and the point of order by the two distinguished Senators, allow me to also bring to the attention of the House that Article 179 (5) of the Constitution talks about when the Governor is absent; the word there...

What is it, Sen. M. Kajwang’?

Sen. Kajwang’

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have been struggling to contextualize whether the debate is really a point of order or a point of debate, but because---

It is a point of order which raises a point of law that affects debate of this Motion. Sen. M. Kajwang’ Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the use of inability is tricky because that then is impeachable. November 12, 2019 SENATE DEBATES 41 Sen. M. Kajwang’

Sen. M. Kajwang’, you have started with a disclaimer that you are not a lawyer, but you have done fairly well. If it was in my previous life, I would have recommended you for an award of certificate in legal philosophy. Now I do not have that capacity. If I...

Sen. M. Kajwang’ Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, this is not to really answer, but just to provoke further thought. This is a conversation we have had, even within my

Can court determine absence? Can court determine an absence which amounts to limiting the functions or performance of a governor? Sen. M. Kajwang’ Indeed, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, assuming that a governor---

Going by your distinction between vacancy – which I found very impressive – and absence, when the court says that you cannot access the office and, therefore, according to what we are discussing, the governor cannot perform those functions, whether temporarily, permanent, long-term or short- term; do you not think...

Sen. M. Kajwang’ Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, in the Samburu and Kiambu cases, the courts have not declared a vacancy. In my view, the determination of the courts could lead to an absence, but it will fall upon the governor to say that, being barred from accessing office will limit...

In your view, in the case of Kiambu and Samburu counties, has the court declared a vacancy or an absence? Sen. M. Kajwang’ Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, in the Samburu and Kiambu cases, the courts have not declared a vacancy. In my view, the determination of the courts could lead...

Alright, Sen. M. Kajwang’. Well done. I am sorry, colleagues; we have run out of time. Sen. Olekina, we have to make a determination that helps us to move, one way or the other. Unless there is a burning issue, I want to ask Sen. Olekina to just say a...

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I will try to make them---

No, how many minutes do you need?

I can do with 15. (Laughter)

I will give you three minutes.

Three minutes will be a bit short.

Thank you for bringing the light note, but I will give you three minutes. November 12, 2019 SENATE DEBATES 44

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, can I indulge you to allow me to also have my take on it, just like every other Senator?

In three minutes.

November 12, 2019 SENATE DEBATES 45

Sen. M. Kajwang’

Sen. M. Kajwang’

Sen. M. Kajwang’ I rise to oppose this Motion. I will give the reasons later. (Laughter) Sen. M. Kajwang’ public sector. That way, absence as a result of illness is not permanent; absence as a result of a jail term of less than 12 months, there can be clear provisions.Finally,...

Proceed, Sen. Cheruiyot.