Johnson Nduya Muthama

Sen. Muthama(Laughter)

Mr. Muthama Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I lost my card. I am using a temporary one and I do not know how to apply for a new one. That sounds reasonable. Sen.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Mine is very straightforward and short. If we treated the Level Five Hospitals as if they belong to the counties; where they exist, I need to know who pays their salaries. Do the salaries go to the counties where the hospitals are located? I...

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to thank all Members and to call upon all hon. Senators to support this Mediation Report so that we unlock the financing of the counties which is pretty urgent. I thank you. July 22, 2014 SENATE DEBATES

This is a report on a Bill which affects counties. So, we will go into Division. In keeping with Standing Order No.74 (2) of our Standing Orders, I will now order that the Division Bell be rung for five minutes after which we shall proceed to vote.Anybody voting on behalf...

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, every vote here is very important. I am trying to assist my colleague Sen. Chiaba who is unable to vote, for technical reasons, with his card. I just want to inform him that when he is not doing that, he can do it analogue by recording...

(Laughter)

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I lost my card. I am using a temporary one and I do not know how to apply for a new one.

If you had not interrupted me, I was going to explain to Sen. Chiaba how it is going to be done. So, if you can take your seat now, I will explain to you.

Okay, Sir. Standing Order No.74 (5) provides for manual voting when the Speaker is satisfied that for good reason the Senator would not be able to vote electronically. Once everybody else has voted, those of you who do not have your cards or for whatever reason are not able to...

Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Then let us proceed to vote for one minute. July 22, 2014 SENATE DEBATES

Sen. Ntutu, Narok County; Sen. Obure, Kisii County; Sen. Okong’o, Nyamira County; Sen. Ongoro, Nairobi County; Sen. Orengo, Siaya County; Sen. Sang, Nandi County; Sen. Wamatangi, Kiambu County and Sen. Wetangula, Bungoma County.Hon. Senators the vote is in. Those who voted electronically were 24 and those who were assisted to...

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise to support the Bill although we have discussed it at length in the Senate Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget and have proposed some amendments to it. The amendments are informed by the fact that there are reports indicating that, in fact, the county...

not cause a financial crisis in the budgets that have already been prepared by the counties.In addition, we have also proposed that the method of allocating the 40/60 per cent as opposed to 60/40 per cent will ensure that the counties are given an opportunity to manage their recurrent expenditure...

[The Temporary Deputy Speaker (Sen. Ongoro) took the Chair] Madam Temporary Speaker, it is possible to give greater allocation on development. It is possible to even have 70 per cent of the money go to development. It must be borne in our minds and Sen. Kajwang will tell you, that...

July 22, 2014 SENATE DEBATES

Sawa, Sen. Murkomen! Madam Temporary Speaker, that is the position and you can see that the Senator for Kisii agrees with me. We need to have an honest conversation about whether we will continue doing oversight or combine oversight and direct management of resources. Madam Temporary Speaker, although my brother,...

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Sen. Muthamaand power instability. Banks are not manufacturers. I do not know what they have to do with infrastructure and power instability. I do not understated why we have hidden costs.Mr. Speaker, Sir, you know that there is a case pending in court right now against one of the major...

Sen. Muthama Mr. Speaker, Sir, I also want to add my voice to the sentiments that have been expressed by my colleagues. Banks in this country are making profits which are immoral. It is not justified that---

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Sen. Muthama On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. There was reference to the word “bull of Elgeyo-Marakwet.” I do not know what that means or whether there is a Member of Parliament (MP) with that name. But I know that from Elgeyo-Marakwet, there was the “bull of...

Sen. MuthamaMr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I floored even that bull and I do not think Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale would have been able to do it.

Sen. Muthamakind of a party, if you look at the composition. You do not have to ascribe to too much capital for you to win favour in terms of parties. It is the party that says: “You have to use the democratic standards.” I remember one of the Senators here...

Let me get this clear in my mind. Are you saying that the UDF was created, literally, to divide the votes of the major tribes in this country? Sen. MuthamaOn a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Is Sen. Sang in order to point out that Sen. Hassan is...

Sen. Muthama Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, just to respond to Sen. Sang, the coalition is not just a coalition of individuals but a coalition of parties which stand for something. There are certain definitive reasons or interests that got URP amalgamate itself into a coalition with the TNA; whether that...

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Sen. Muthama Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I want to thank Sen. Sang for his generosity. I want to thank him also for the initiative, first of all, to bring this very important Bill and for participating in this mediation effort. Secondly, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to...

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I want to thank Sen. Sang for his generosity. I want to thank him also for the initiative, first of all, to bring this very important Bill and for participating in this mediation effort. Secondly, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to try and...

What is it, Sen. Njoroge?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, is it in order for the Senator from Kisii to refer to women representatives at the ward as representing women in this board when for sure they come from the National Assembly? We are also referring to the Senate and also the county assemblies. Is he in...

If my time will be saved, that is fine. Order, Senators! We are not saving any time!

Okay. Devolution is a new concept and a new phenomenon and in the initial period of implementation, we expect problems. Even as we go along, we expect new challenges to emerge and it is up to this Senate to respond. In this case, we are responding through this Bill by...

Bw. Spika, ningependa kukushukuru kwa kunipa nafasi hii. Kwanza, ningependa kuipinga Hoja hii. Licha ya mjadala huu kuwa mzuri, kuweka kando walemavu ambao walichaguliwa kwenye kaunti ni dhuluma na ubaguzi wa hali ya juu. Bodi hii itakapokuwa inakaa, walemavu watakuwa wakiwakilishwa na kina nani? Hii ni bodi ya kaunti ambayo...

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Is the Nominated Senator, Sen. Njoroge, in order to mislead the country that in this Bill, the disabled have July 9, 2014 SENATE DEBATES

national Government, county government or any other person is invited?”Forever, the disabled will be invited to the Committee meetings, as and when they apply to say that they want to attend.

Bw. Spika, alichosema ni jambo la kutia kidonda chumvi. Kusema mlevu atawakilishwa. Akishawakilishwa--- Thank you Mr. Speaker, Sir. I rise to support this Motion on two accounts. First, this is one of these things that we need in this country for purposes of transparency. We will help the public to...

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The Mediation Committee has done its part. It is very important for us to have a board that will be in charge of development. I rise to strongly oppose this Report by the Mediation Committee. Sen. Khalwale talked about part “m” and said that some...

Mr. Speaker, Sir, first, I want to thank the Mediation Committee. I want to say this. In terms of affirmative action, we have come from very far. I plead with all our Members to move in a direction where we can lobby and see things work. We want to thank...

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I do not intend to use more than three minutes. However, I must appreciate the contribution and the lobbying that Members of this House have done. We know the challenges we have had with the National Assembly were great July 9, 2014 SENATE DEBATES

their time to talk to Members of the National Assembly from their counties.Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to single you out. On several occasions, on national television and several programmes, you have been very vocal and have taken it personally to talk to your counterparts at the National Assembly.I want...

Order, Senators! The results of the Division are as follows:- AYES: 24 ABSTENTIONS: Nil. ADJOURNMENT

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Sen. Muthama Thank you, Sen. Wetangula. I think it is important that we observe that because it gives the House the respect that is due to it. Please proceed, Senator. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I was saying that I am moving this Motion on behalf of all of us not...

Sen. Wetangula, Sen. Muthama wants to inform you. Do you want his information? The Senate Minority Leader (

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Sen. Muthama(Applause)(Applause)

Order! Order! Sen. Muthamathem! So, let us be clear on this one.But in the same vein, Mr. Speaker, Sir, having said so – and, again, I do not want to generalize because I have seen hon. Senators across where I stand and distinguished leaders who have really maintained their cool...

On a point of order! Order, Senator (Prof.) Kindiki! Order! I would not want him to really interrupt you because you have made a very good observation that nobody from either political divide should politicize this process. I thought that “nobody” includes you, especially at the point of moving. If...

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Sen. Muthama Bw. Spika, nashukuru kwa nafasi hii. Ningependa kuungana na wenzangu kusema maneno mawili ama matatu. Naanza kwa kuungana na wenzangu; wananchi wa kawaida ambao waliumia. Hawa ni wananchi wa kawaida. Mambo haya yalitokea kule Mpeketoni. Watu karibu 50 walikufa juzi na jana watu 15. Hili si jambo la...

You cannot do that. I was seeking a statement--- Order, Sen. Orengo. Serjeant-at-Arms, Sen. Orengo is a stranger for the remainder of the sitting. On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Order. There is nothing you can do unless Sen. Orengo is out of this place. Those are the...

Sen. Muthama He did. I did not hear that. If you did, I retract. However, if you did not, I saw this gentleman manhandling Sen. Orengo and took exception of that. (Sen. Wetangula pointed at one of the Serjeants-at-Arms) I thought that I should bring it to your attention. Under...

Sen. Muthama On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Is it in order for Sen. Muthama who is the Minority Chief Whip to use the Floor of this House to incite Kenyans against other Kenyans on the basis of tribalism? From the leading questions he is asking, he wants...

Sen. Muthama Asante, Bw. Spika. Tunataka kuona polisi wetu na kitengo cha upelelezi kikifanya kazi. Tunaweza kusema kwamba hiyo ndio sababu hawataki kufanya

Jambo la nidhamu Bw. Spika. Ni sawa kwa Sen. Muthama kusema “hata” Rendile. Je, Warendile si watu kamili? Sen. Muthamahayaangaliwi sawa sawa. Kwa hivyo, tuliposema kwa Katiba kwamba tuwe na uwakilishi wa jinsia na makabila, haikumaanisha kwamba tuna ubaguzi wa ukabila. Tulisema kwamba kila sura iwakilishwe katika utumishi wa juu...

Mr. Muthama What is your point of order, Sen. Muthama?

Sen. Muthama Sen. Wangari, do you want to respond to that?

What is your point of order, Sen. Muthama? Sen. MuthamaBw. Naibu Spika, nakala ya HANSARD inaweza kumsaidia Sen. Muthuma kuelewa yale niliyoyasema. Nimesema kama wanasiasa ni lazima tusitoneshe kidonda kwa kuongeza chumvi. Tayari kuna shida na hatujasema ni ya kisiasa lakini yale matamshi tunayoyatamka katika mikutano yanaweza kuleta chuki baina...

Sen. Muthama Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am not defending any community. I just said that I am not from the generation that speaks issues while putting them under the table. I put them on the table as they are. Majority of those who died were from the Kikuyu community....

Sen. Muthamaeffect, but was not specific.

Sen. Muthama Hon. Members, you must also appreciate one thing as you raise your points of order. Members are entitled to their opinions as long as they do not cross certain lines. So, if somebody says, for instance, that the rallies could be causing the chaos, they are expressing their...

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Sen. Muthama Okay, proceed with your point of order. Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Last night, I was rang by the Office of the Clerk and asked to prepare myself with regard to Motion No.15, just in case the preceding Motions did not take off. So, if for any...

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Sen. Muthama Bw. Spika wa Muda nakushukuru sana kwa nafasi hii ili nichangie Hoja hii. Nimemsikiza kwa makini sana dada yangu, Sen. Elachi, akizungumza kuhusu mambo yanayohitajika katika mjadala huu. Pia nimewasikiza wale ambao wamezungumza kabla mimi. Bw. Spika wa Muda, ni dhahiri kwamba katika taifa letu hatujakuwa na shida...

Sen. Muthama Bw. Spika wa Muda, ndugu yangu angenisikiza---

Sen. Muthama Bw. Spika wa Muda, kama ndugu yangu alinisikiza vizuri, nilisema kwamba Jeshi letu limeonyesha ujasiri katika nchi za nje na Gen. Mulinge alithibitisha hayo. Lakini kitendo cha Westgate kilikuja baadaye. Ule ni wizi uliofanywa na Jeshi linalolinda taifa. Kwa hivyo, kama jambo hilo lilitokea ni jukumu letu kusema...

Sen. Muthama Bw. Spika wa Muda, sikusema kwamba kuna mtu ambaye amehukumiwa---

Sen. Muthama Bw. Spika wa Muda, Hoja hii inazungumzia mambo ya Umoja wa Mataifa. Inahimiza Serikali ya juu kuongea na Umoja wa Mataifa ili majeshi yetu yakubaliwe kushiriki katika shughuli za kurejesha amani ulimwenguni. Hayo ndio mambo ambayo yako ndani ya mjadala huu. Hatuwezi kuongea kuhusu uhusiano wa Kenya na...