George Peter Opondo Kaluma

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Hon. Timothy Toroitich, the Member for Marakwet West.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Thank you, Hon. (Dr) Oundo. Hon. Adan Haji, Member for Mandera west.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Thank you very much, Hon. Adan Haji, Member for Mandera West. Hon. (Dr) Lilian Gogo. I know your Ph.D. area is food science.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) What is out of order, Hon. Joshua Kimilu?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma)Leader of the Majority Party, thank you very much. We end this debate at that point. For the convenience of the House, the Question will be put when the people who prepare the House business next list this matter in the Order Paper. ADJOURNMENT The...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Thank you. Hon. Catherine Omanyo.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Thank you. I am informed that Hon. Andrew Okuome wants to address the House on this matter for five minutes. The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Hon. Andrew Okuome.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Thank you, Hon. Geoffrey Mwangi. Let us have Hon. Zamzam Mohammed. Utaongea kwa Kiswahili.

Hon. Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Asante sana. Member for Kisauni, Ndugu Rashid Bedzimba.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Hon. Joshua Kimilu, I confirm your concern. However, this is a Bill which is not limited in time. It will continue until tomorrow if scheduled. Unless Members want to constrict their debates, let Members have their time to deliberate on the issues being raised....

Hon. Temporary Speaker. The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma): Hon. Fredrick Ikana. Hon. Fred Ikana (Shinyalu, ANC)Thank you very much, Hon. Temporary Speaker, for giving me an opportunity to contribute to the Motion. 15th August 2023 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 46 Hon. Temporary Speaker. The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma): Hon....

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Mjumbe wa Jimbo la Kericho, Mhe Beatrice Kemei. Mhe. Zamzam wa Jimbo la Mombasa akianza kuongea, Kiswahili changu hupotea.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Hon. Caroli Omondi.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma)Asante ndugu Mhe. Bedzimba.

Hon. Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Hon. Members, I urge that we look at the objects of the Bill as stated therein as we debate it. This Bill is not about food or feed safety, but it is meant to provide a coordinating mechanism around agencies dealing with those functions...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma)Your information has been rejected. Proceed,

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma)Thank you, Hon. (Dr) Lilian Gogo. Member for Tetu, Hon. Geoffrey Mwangi.

Hon. Peter Kaluma (Homa Bay Town, ODM) Thank you, Hon. Speaker for the honour to welcome all students from all learning institutions to the National Assembly which is the House of Parliament. Particularly, let me welcome Ogande Girls. At home we call the school the Brown Belt Movement. There is...

Hon. Peter Kaluma (Homa Bay Town, ODM) Thank you, Hon. Speaker. (Hon. Moses Kirima raised his hand)

Hon. Peter Kaluma (Homa Bay Town, ODM) For Homa Bay region.

Hon. Peter Kaluma (Homa Bay Town, ODM) I know the challenge we are facing is that the Order Paper indicated that we will deal with about three conventions requiring ratification.

Hon. Peter Kaluma (Homa Bay Town, ODM) So, it appears to me there could be interest still. Personally, I am interested, but I have read the report halfway. Therefore, I request that we step down this Order and not call upon the Mover to reply, without due attention of the...

Hon. Peter Kaluma (Homa Bay Town, ODM) I thank you.

Hon. Peter Kaluma (Homa Bay Town, ODM) It is Hon. Kirima.

Hon. Peter Kaluma (Homa Bay Town, ODM) Hon. Speaker, I have two supplementary questions to the Cabinet Secretary. One matter hindering issuance of title deeds to lands across the country is disappearance of records at the Ministry of Lands, Housing and Urban Development. What measures is the Ministry taking to...

Hon. Peter Kaluma (Homa Bay Town, ODM) On a point of Order, Hon. Temporary Speaker.

Hon. Peter Kaluma (Homa Bay Town, ODM) I thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. The issue was that Homa Bay region has been neglected on titling. My ancestral land has no title. The question was the specific measures to secure titles for those regions, so that we can also transact in...

Hon. Peter Kaluma (Homa Bay Town, ODM) Hon. Temporary Speaker, mine is not a supplementary, but to salute your directions to the House based on the Standing Orders. The question I had asked about titling in our region had no undertaking. The point of order is that it has not...

Hon. Peter Kaluma (Homa Bay Town, ODM) Hon. Speaker, I request that you look at that. If we do not have some fat cows to be… I believe nobody should be saved from taxation. Remove the idea of amnesty and let us go after people. Lastly, we lose over Ksh700...

Hon. Peter Kaluma (Homa Bay Town, ODM) I have read the Report. The Committee proposed deletion of that clause. However, until it is deleted and the House resolves so, it is part of the Bill. I encourage the Committee that if there is a proposal to delete that clause, let...

Hon. Peter Kaluma (Homa Bay Town, ODM) Thank you, Hon. Speaker, for this opportunity. The main reason parliaments exist in the world is because of the doctrine that there cannot be taxation without representation. I beg to remind both sides of the House that once this Finance Bill is passed,...

Hon. Peter Kaluma (Homa Bay Town, ODM) Hon. Speaker, I request that you look at that. If we do not have some fat cows to be… I believe nobody should be saved from taxation. Remove the idea of amnesty and let us go after people. Lastly, we lose over Ksh700...

Hon. Peter Kaluma (Homa Bay Town, ODM) I have read the Report. The Committee proposed deletion of that clause. However, until it is deleted and the House resolves so, it is part of the Bill. I encourage the Committee that if there is a proposal to delete that clause, let...

Hon. Peter Kaluma (Homa Bay Town, ODM) Thank you, Hon. Speaker, for this opportunity. The main reason parliaments exist in the world is because of the doctrine that there cannot be taxation without representation. I beg to remind both sides of the House that once this Finance Bill is passed,...

Hon. Peter Kaluma (Homa Bay Town, ODM) Hon. Speaker, I request that you look at that. If we do not have some fat cows to be… I believe nobody should be saved from taxation. Remove the idea of amnesty and let us go after people. Lastly, we lose over Ksh700...

Hon. Peter Kaluma (Homa Bay Town, ODM) I have read the Report. The Committee proposed deletion of that clause. However, until it is deleted and the House resolves so, it is part of the Bill. I encourage the Committee that if there is a proposal to delete that clause, let...

Hon. Peter Kaluma (Homa Bay Town, ODM) Thank you, Hon. Speaker, for this opportunity. The main reason parliaments exist in the world is because of the doctrine that there cannot be taxation without representation. I beg to remind both sides of the House that once this Finance Bill is passed,...

Hon. Peter Kaluma (Homa Bay Town, ODM) Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I beg to report that the Committee of Supply has considered the Budget Estimates for the Financial Year 2023/2024 and approved the same with amendments and, pursuant to the provisions of Article 221 of the Constitution, Section 39 of...

Hon. Peter Kaluma (Homa Bay Town, ODM) Thank you for giving me the last chance, Hon. Temporary Chairlady. I support the allocation to the State Department for Technical Vocational Education and Training for the reason that has been given. The current President has visited Homa Bay Town Constituency twice in...

Hon. Peter Kaluma (Homa Bay Town, ODM) It should be one minute.

Hon. Peter Kaluma (Homa Bay Town, ODM) Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I beg to report that the Committee of Supply has considered the Budget Estimates for the Financial Year 2023/2024 and approved the same with amendments and, pursuant to the provisions of Article 221 of the Constitution, Section 39 of...

Hon. Peter Kaluma (Homa Bay Town, ODM) Thank you for giving me the last chance, Hon. Temporary Chairlady. I support the allocation to the State Department for Technical Vocational Education and Training for the reason that has been given. The current President has visited Homa Bay Town Constituency twice in...

Hon. Peter Kaluma (Homa Bay Town, ODM) It should be one minute.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Proceed.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Thank you. Cabinet Secretary, I request you and your team to take note so that we take as many questions as possible. Let us have Hon. Abraham Kirwa. (A Member spoke off-record)

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Ask your question.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Thank you, Cabinet Secretary, we will now take supplementary questions. We have the Member of Parliament for Bura.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Member for Kesses.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Hon. Jessica Mbalu.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Thank you. Give the microphone to Hon. Ali Abdisirat Khalif to ask his question. Is it that the electronic system of Parliament is not working or what is happening? Parliament has a way of dealing with all the issues. Do not worry.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Let us have Hon. Ruku. Could we agree that this be the last, Hon. Members? Remember we are dealing with a Motion on appointment of a commissioner that is timed by law, over which we have to make a decision. Remember also that when...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Hon. Dido Raso.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) What is out of order, Hon. Farah?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Hon. Farah, is it your view that the Cabinet Secretary is rushing?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Hon. Members, the next Order is No.8 on the approval of nominee for appointment as a Member of the SRC. I also note that most Members are asking questions not related to the questions previously remitted to the Cabinet Secretary. Cabinet Secretary, are you...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Hon. Letipila, Member for Samburu North. We are definitely done with the left side. We are moving towards the Cabinet Secretary now. (Several Members spoke off-record) Hon. Letipila, Member for Samburu North!

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Hon. Jessica Mbalu, that was a very long statement. I request Members asking supplementary questions, especially Members whose questions have been responded to, to be brief. Members, remember that in our Standing Orders, the time within which the Cabinet Secretary should be in the...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) The Cabinet Secretary had indicated that he would use five minutes. Colloquially, it means the shortest time possible to answer in the most satisfactory manner to the Members. I want to remind you, Members, that this is not the only business we have to...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma)

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Hon. Jayne Kihara.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Hon. Kamuren.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Order! Committee Chair, move the Motion. Start by “I beg to Move” and reading the entire terms of the Motion before you make your contribution.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Cabinet Secretary, do you have that response, or could we direct Hon. Gikaria to pursue it with your office separately? The Cabinet Secretary for Energy and Petroleum (Mr. Davis Chirchir) : To a very good extent, I think there was a challenge with some...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Member for Elgeyo Marakwet. 3rd May 2023 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 48

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) You are out of order, Hon. Yakub Adow. I want you to look at your Standing Orders. There is no specific order in which a Cabinet Secretary should respond to questions raised on behalf of the people. I hope that is the reason we...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Move to the next microphone.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Hon. Abdul Haro.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Member for Kamukunji. The last time I checked I was told the right side of the Speaker is the Government side. You will get a chance. I know the Cabinet Secretary will be gracious enough to take your questions and have them addressed. You...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Hon. Gikaria confirmed that he received a notification from the Clerk that his Question will be on the Order Paper. I think that is the context in which the Cabinet Secretary confirms he came ready with the response. (Hon. David Gikaria spoke off the...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Hon. Eric Muchangi, the last question.

The Temporary Speaker (Peter Kaluma) Thank you. Cabinet Secretary, conclude. The Cabinet Secretary for Energy and Petroleum (Mr. Davis Chirchir) : Let me conclude, Hon. Members, by acknowledging the fact that it is a great opportunity to appear before this honourable House to listen to the concerns. Sometimes, we can...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Just a minute, Hon. Gikaria. Cabinet Secretary, are you aware of this matter? The Cabinet Secretary for Energy and Petroleum (Mr. Davis Chirchir) : The Question by Hon. Lemanken Aramat, the Member for Narok East on the 30 employees? I am aware of that...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Next is Hon. Farah Maalim.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Hon. Kitany.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Hon. Victor Koech.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Hon. Paul Biego, Member for Chesumei.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Hon. Hillary Kosgei.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Thank you very much. Cabinet Secretary you have your platform to respond to the Members, and it will be five minutes because of the other businesses the House has to transact. Hon. Members, any question which would not have been specifically responded to by...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) I hope you are on a point of order. What is out of order? Is that Hon. Yakub?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Lastly is Hon. Edith Nyenze, Member of Parliament for Kitui.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Thank you. Let us have Hon. Zamzam Chimba. The Cabinet Secretary is only going to take only five minutes to respond to all questions.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Hon. Ferdinand Wanyonyi.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Cabinet Secretary, are you able to take three more supplementary questions, or we leave it at two? I do not know the interest of Members of Parliament in the energy sector. I will have difficulties if I denied them an opportunity, particularly the ones...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Thank you, Cabinet Secretary and your team. On behalf of the Office of the Speaker and the National Assembly, let me thank you specially for not only availing yourself to respond to questions raised by Members, but also for doing your best to satisfactorily...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Hon. Farah Maalim, what is the point of order? I want to request that we allow the Cabinet Secretary to conclude.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Hon. Dekow Barrow, the Member of Parliament who replaced the former Leader of the Majority Party. Is it not so?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Thank you Hon. Owen Baya. Hon. Naisula Lesuuda.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Hon. David Gikaria, what is out of order?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Thank you. Hon. Owen Baya. Hon. Members, is this the last question?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Hon. Rindikiri.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Hon. (Dr.) Pukose.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Order, Hon. Members. There is a lot of commotion here. I do not know whether the interest is in the energy sector or in the Cabinet Secretary. (Laughter)

The Temporary Speaker (Peter Kaluma) Cabinet Secretary, I can confirm you have responded to the question by Hon. Rindikiri Mugambi, and he is satisfied. Please proceed to the other questions. 3rd May 2023 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 58

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Proceed.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Thank you. Cabinet Secretary, I request you and your team to take note so that we take as many questions as possible. Let us have Hon. Abraham Kirwa. (A Member spoke off-record)

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Ask your question.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Thank you, Cabinet Secretary, we will now take supplementary questions. We have the Member of Parliament for Bura.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Member for Kesses.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Hon. Jessica Mbalu.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Thank you. Give the microphone to Hon. Ali Abdisirat Khalif to ask his question. Is it that the electronic system of Parliament is not working or what is happening? Parliament has a way of dealing with all the issues. Do not worry.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Let us have Hon. Ruku. Could we agree that this be the last, Hon. Members? Remember we are dealing with a Motion on appointment of a commissioner that is timed by law, over which we have to make a decision. Remember also that when...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Hon. Dido Raso.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) What is out of order, Hon. Farah?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Hon. Farah, is it your view that the Cabinet Secretary is rushing?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Hon. Members, the next Order is No.8 on the approval of nominee for appointment as a Member of the SRC. I also note that most Members are asking questions not related to the questions previously remitted to the Cabinet Secretary. Cabinet Secretary, are you...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Hon. Letipila, Member for Samburu North. We are definitely done with the left side. We are moving towards the Cabinet Secretary now. (Several Members spoke off-record) Hon. Letipila, Member for Samburu North!

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Hon. Jessica Mbalu, that was a very long statement. I request Members asking supplementary questions, especially Members whose questions have been responded to, to be brief. Members, remember that in our Standing Orders, the time within which the Cabinet Secretary should be in the...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) The Cabinet Secretary had indicated that he would use five minutes. Colloquially, it means the shortest time possible to answer in the most satisfactory manner to the Members. I want to remind you, Members, that this is not the only business we have to...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma)

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Hon. Jayne Kihara.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Hon. Kamuren.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Order! Committee Chair, move the Motion. Start by “I beg to Move” and reading the entire terms of the Motion before you make your contribution.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Cabinet Secretary, do you have that response, or could we direct Hon. Gikaria to pursue it with your office separately? The Cabinet Secretary for Energy and Petroleum (Mr. Davis Chirchir) : To a very good extent, I think there was a challenge with some...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Member for Elgeyo Marakwet. 3rd May 2023 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 48

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) You are out of order, Hon. Yakub Adow. I want you to look at your Standing Orders. There is no specific order in which a Cabinet Secretary should respond to questions raised on behalf of the people. I hope that is the reason we...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Move to the next microphone.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Hon. Abdul Haro.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Member for Kamukunji. The last time I checked I was told the right side of the Speaker is the Government side. You will get a chance. I know the Cabinet Secretary will be gracious enough to take your questions and have them addressed. You...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Hon. Gikaria confirmed that he received a notification from the Clerk that his Question will be on the Order Paper. I think that is the context in which the Cabinet Secretary confirms he came ready with the response. (Hon. David Gikaria spoke off the...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Hon. Eric Muchangi, the last question.

The Temporary Speaker (Peter Kaluma) Thank you. Cabinet Secretary, conclude. The Cabinet Secretary for Energy and Petroleum (Mr. Davis Chirchir) : Let me conclude, Hon. Members, by acknowledging the fact that it is a great opportunity to appear before this honourable House to listen to the concerns. Sometimes, we can...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Just a minute, Hon. Gikaria. Cabinet Secretary, are you aware of this matter? The Cabinet Secretary for Energy and Petroleum (Mr. Davis Chirchir) : The Question by Hon. Lemanken Aramat, the Member for Narok East on the 30 employees? I am aware of that...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Next is Hon. Farah Maalim.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Hon. Kitany.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Hon. Victor Koech.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Hon. Paul Biego, Member for Chesumei.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Hon. Hillary Kosgei.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Thank you very much. Cabinet Secretary you have your platform to respond to the Members, and it will be five minutes because of the other businesses the House has to transact. Hon. Members, any question which would not have been specifically responded to by...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) I hope you are on a point of order. What is out of order? Is that Hon. Yakub?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Lastly is Hon. Edith Nyenze, Member of Parliament for Kitui.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Thank you. Let us have Hon. Zamzam Chimba. The Cabinet Secretary is only going to take only five minutes to respond to all questions.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Hon. Ferdinand Wanyonyi.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Cabinet Secretary, are you able to take three more supplementary questions, or we leave it at two? I do not know the interest of Members of Parliament in the energy sector. I will have difficulties if I denied them an opportunity, particularly the ones...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Thank you, Cabinet Secretary and your team. On behalf of the Office of the Speaker and the National Assembly, let me thank you specially for not only availing yourself to respond to questions raised by Members, but also for doing your best to satisfactorily...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Hon. Farah Maalim, what is the point of order? I want to request that we allow the Cabinet Secretary to conclude.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Hon. Dekow Barrow, the Member of Parliament who replaced the former Leader of the Majority Party. Is it not so?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Thank you Hon. Owen Baya. Hon. Naisula Lesuuda.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Hon. David Gikaria, what is out of order?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Thank you. Hon. Owen Baya. Hon. Members, is this the last question?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Hon. Rindikiri.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Hon. (Dr.) Pukose.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) Order, Hon. Members. There is a lot of commotion here. I do not know whether the interest is in the energy sector or in the Cabinet Secretary. (Laughter)

The Temporary Speaker (Peter Kaluma) Cabinet Secretary, I can confirm you have responded to the question by Hon. Rindikiri Mugambi, and he is satisfied. Please proceed to the other questions. 3rd May 2023 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 58