November 8, 2017 SENATE DEBATES Wednesday, 8th November, 2017

Hon. Senators, I would like to acknowledge the presence in the Speaker’s Gallery this afternoon of a delegation from Laikipia County Assembly. The County Assembly officers are visiting the Senate on a one day bench marking tour on Committee operations.

I request each member of the delegation to stand when called out so that they can be acknowledged in the Senate tradition.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to lay the following Papers on the Table of the Senate today, Wednesday 8th November,

The Controller of Budget Annual National Government Budget Implementation Review Report 2016/2017 FY

The Controller of Budget Annual County Governments Budget Implementation Review report 2016/2017 FY

Executive for the year ended 30 June, 2016. Assembly for the year ended 30 June, 2016.

Report of the Auditor-General on the financial statements of the Bungoma County Executive for the year ended 30 June, 2016.

Report of the Auditor-General on the financial statements of the Bungoma County Assembly for the year ended 30 June, 2016.

Report of the Auditor-General on the financial statements of the Isiolo County Executive for the year ended 30 June, 2016.

Report of the Auditor-General on the financial statements of the Isiolo County Assembly for the year ended 30 June, 2016.

Report of the Auditor-General on the financial statements of the Meru County Executive for the year ended 30 June, 2016.

Report of the Auditor-General on the financial statements of the Meru County Assembly for the year ended 30 June, 2016.

Report of the Auditor-General on the financial statements of the Kitui County Executive for the year ended 30 June, 2016.

Report of the Auditor-General on the financial statements of the Kitui County Assembly for the year ended 30 June, 2016.

Report of the Auditor-General on the financial statements of the Kiambu County Executive for the year ended 30 June, 2016.

Report of the Auditor-General on the financial statements of the Kiambu County Assembly for the year ended 30 June, 2016.

Report of the Auditor-General on the financial statements of the Narok County Executive for the year ended 30 June, 2016.

Report of the Auditor-General on the financial statements of the Narok County Assembly for the year ended 30 June, 2016.

Report of the Auditor-General on the financial statements of the Bomet County Executive for the year ended 30 June, 2016.

Assembly for the year ended 30 June, 2016.

Report of the Auditor-General on the financial statements of the Kisumu County Executive for the year ended 30 June, 2016.

Report of the Auditor-General on the financial statements of the Kisumu County Assembly for the year ended 30 June, 2016.

Report of the Auditor-General on the financial statements of the Kirinyaga County Executive for the year ended 30 June, 2016.

Report of the Auditor-General on the financial statements of the KirinyagaCounty Assembly for the year ended 30 June, 2016.

Report of the Auditor-General on the financial statements of the Laikipia County Executive for the year ended 30 June, 2016.

Report of the Auditor-General on the financial statements of the Laikipia County Assembly for the year ended 30 June, 2016.

Report of the Auditor-General on the financial statements of the Kisii County Executive for the year ended 30 June, 2016.

Report of the Auditor-General on the financial statements of the Kisii County Assembly for the year ended 30 June, 2016.

Report of the Auditor-General on the financial statements of the Nyandarua County Executive for the year ended 30 June, 2016.

Report of the Auditor-General on the financial statements of the Nyandarua County Assembly for the year ended 30 June, 2016.

Report of the Auditor-General on the financial statements of the Nyeri County Assembly for the year ended 30 June, 2016.

Report of the Auditor-General on the financial statements of the Murang’a County Assembly for the year ended 30 June, 2016.

Report of the Auditor-General on the financial statements of the Mandera County Assembly for the year ended 30 June, 2016.

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Allow me to congratulate you on your first presiding over of the business of this House. The Senate Majority Leader has not laid the papers that he has read so well.

laying the papers. Maybe the papers are bulky.

I call upon the Senate Majority Leader to lay the papers.

Sen. Dullo, you have a Notice of Motion.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I wish to give notice of the following Motion:-

THAT, aware the primary role of the Senate is to protect the interest of the counties---

Sen. Dullo, you are giving notice of the wrong Motion. You have two Notices of Motion today. The one you are moving is not the correct one.

Order, Senators for Kericho and Vihiga!

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to give notice of the following Motion:-

AWAREthat the right to adequate food is affirmed under Article 25 of the 1948Universal Declaration of Human Rights, and Article 11 of the 1966 InternationalCovenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights as part of the right to anadequate standard of living; FURTHER AWARE THATArticle 43 (1) (c) and (d) of the Constitution of Kenyaprovides for economic and social rights for every person and in particular theright to be free from hunger, to have adequate food of acceptable quality, and tohave clean and safe water in adequate quantities; CONCERNEDthat this fundamental right is under threat as various Countiesbattle severe drought occasioned by successive failure in rainfall; CONCERNEDthat over 3.4 million people including over 370,000 children areacutely malnourished and in urgent need of emergency

in extremely poor body conditionas a result of the drought; FURTHER CONCERNEDthat the situation in drought ravaged parts of thecountry poses a serious threat to Human dignity, peace, security and stabilityfollowing loss of livelihoods leading to scramble for scarce resources by theaffected communities; NOTING that Parliament enacted the National Drought Management Bill whichwas assented to on 1st April, 2016 and which seeks to comprehensively addressthe matter of persistent droughts in the country; NOW THEREFORE, the Senate calls upon the Ministry of Interior and Coordination of National Government and relevant State agencies responsible including the National Drought Management Authority to-

Thank you, Sen. Fatuma Dullo. Hon. Senators, I now request you to switch to the Supplementary Order Paper. Is it what you have, Sen. Khaniri?

Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

We will proceed to the next Order on the Supplementary Order Paper.

Let us first start with the Statements to be requested; do we have any request for Statements?

Proceed, Senator for Makueni County.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Please allow me to make the three requests simultaneously. I have three Statements to request.

Make all the requests consecutively.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, first, I would like to request for a Statement on the compensation for persons affected by the Thwake Multi-Purpose Dam Project.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise to seek a Statement under Standing Order No. 46 (2) (b) from the Senate Majority Leader, on the Thwake Multi-purpose Dam Project. The Senate Majority Leader should in the Statement state:-

Order, Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. I would rather we get responses from the Senate Majority Leader on each of them so that he can process the requests.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, you gave me the approval!

I told you to do it consecutively; one by one; seriatim.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am ready to get the answer for Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. I can assure you that I am not resisting.

The Senate Majority Leader, that is a vague term. I hope it is not misconstrued.

I will do so in two weeks, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

I was constrained, but I will not resist.

So, the resistance is mutual or lack thereof. Two weeks; it is so ordered.

Proceed with the second Statement.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise to seek a Statement on the delayed compensation for displaced persons during the construction of the Mulima Dam Project in Mbooni Constituency, Makueni County.

In the Statement, the Senate Majority Leader should:-

affected persons land in a different settlement scheme apart from the Nguu Ranch.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the two questions are similar and they are directed to the same Ministry. So, I request for the same two weeks.

Sen.Mutula Kilonzo Jnr., are you okay with the two weeks?

No problem.

Proceed, to the last Statement.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise to seek a Statement on the Inua Jamii Programme.

In the Statement, the Senate Majority Leader should:-

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, this one looks more complicated and, so, I am requesting for three weeks.

Are you happy with the three weeks, Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr.?

No objection.

No objection; no resistance!

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have just received the Statement on the Status of Karebe Mining Company Limited. The Senator for Nandi has not had the opportunity to read it. It is a comprehensive Statement

need be. I have consulted him and we have agreed---

I was wondering why you are deciding for him how much time he requires to read the Statement. But if you have consulted, it is okay.

Yes, we have. I can issue it tomorrow, but the Statement is there.

No problem. Is there any other Statement?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, regarding the Statement request by Sen. Petronila Were on the on-going nurses’ strike, you can see that it is very voluminous. This is no longer an on-going strike because it has been resolved. However, I have the answer to the Statement plus the attachments, salaries and so forth.

Sen. Petronila is not here and it is the tradition of this House that the Senator should have time to peruse the Statement and be available in the House. However, if you can be magnanimous with the discretion of powers bestowed on your office, we can give time to the Senator to be available so that we can issue it.

Sen. Petronila is not here. The tradition of the House is that it is good for the Senator to be present to peruse through the Statement, because she is the one who requested for it. We will therefore keep it in abeyance. May be, it should be in tomorrow’s Order Paper.

Proceed, Senate Majority Leader.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Statement by Sen. Ledama Olekina, on the alleged use of force and police brutality at the University of Nairobi (UON) is not ready.

Order, Senate Minority Leader!

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am not allowed to correct you and so I withdraw whatever I would have said.

here and he is not ‘resisting’. We are all happy to be here!

So, the Statement sought by Sen. Olekina is not ready.

Is that okay, Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr.?

No objection.

It is so ordered. We will now proceed to the next Statement 2 (b) , the one we deferred. The Senator for Narok County is here now. Would you want to revisit the issue?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, maybe, you did not get me; this Statement is not yet available.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I have nothing to say. The Senate Majority Leader should make sure that it is here on time. We have been waiting for this Statement for quite some time now.

Senator, please raise your voice a little louder.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we have been waiting for this Statement for quite some time. The Senate Majority Leader should push for it. If he can give us an indication on when this Statement would be ready, that would help us.

Senate Majority Leader, when can we have this Statement in the House?

I think another one week would do. The Statement can be ready maybe on Thursday, next week.

Sen. OleKina, do you agree?

Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

It is so ordered. We are now done with Statements. Let us move to the next Order.

November 8, 2017 SENATE DEBATES REDUCTION OF PUBLICATION PERIOD FOR COUNTY ALLOCATION OF REVENUE (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2017

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move the following Motion:-

THAT, Pursuant to Standing Order No. 128, this House resolves to reduce the publication period of the County Allocation of Revenue (Amendment) Bill (Senate Bill No.9 of 2017) from Seven (7) days to One

Order, Senator for Narok County! You appear to be the ring leader.

Ring leader; not leader.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. This being a straightforward Motion, I beg to move and request Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. to second.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I support the Motion by the Senate Majority Leader. However, I must mention that he has not mentioned the reasons he wanted me to support it. Since it is a procedural Motion, I see no harm in supporting the same.

First Reading

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, pursuant to the Procedural Motion having been accepted, I beg to give notice of the following of Motion:-

THAT, Aware that the primary role of the Senate is to protect the interest of counties and their governments as provided for in Article 96 of the Constitution of Kenya; APPRECIATING that the Division of Revenue Act, 2017

and the County Allocation of Revenue Act, 2017

respectively, provide for the sharing of revenue raised nationally between the National Government and County Governments and revenue raised nationally among county governments, for Financial Year 2017/2018; NOTING the need for an amendment to the County Allocation of Revenue Act, 2017

, to provide for a seamless disbursement of funds to county governments to enable them effectively implement county governments’ projects and programmes; NOW, THEREFORE, the Senate resolves:-

What is active participation?

For purposes of the House. The Senate Minority Leader (Sen. Wetangula) : Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we have not formulated Committees. My side has been coming to the House, but has not been actively participating in debates. However, that is not the point. You sat on the other side as the Senate Majority Leader in the previous House and I do not remember any single situation where you listed Members across the Floor without consulting the leadership. That is cardinal, basic and common sense; common courtesy.

Secondly, my Members who are listed here –at least those I have talked to – have just been informed on the Floor that they have been included in the Committee. Thirdly, they are unwilling to serve in a Committee without proper consultation with their leadership. So, it is up to the Chair and the Senate Majority Leader to proceed with a one- sided Committee. It is entirely up to him because ---

Sen. Wetangula, do not involve me in your activities with the Senate Majority Leader.

The Senate Minority Leader (Sen. Wetangula) : That is fine, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. You will make a ruling, in any case, I believe. I want to advise that urgent as this matter may be, our side will submit lists of our membership to committees and then have the means of nominating our Members to ad-hoc Committees not beyond 20th November, 2017.

That being the case, I do not want any unnecessary raptures within the rank and file of our leadership and membership. You never know; I would probably have preferred

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we have not formulated Committees. My side has been coming to the House, but has not been actively participating in debates. However, that is not the point. You sat on the other side as the Senate Majority Leader in the previous House and I do not remember any single situation where you listed Members across the Floor without consulting the leadership. That is cardinal, basic and common sense; common courtesy. Secondly, my Members who are listed here –at least those I have talked to – have just been informed on the Floor that they have been included in the Committee. Thirdly, they are unwilling to serve in a Committee without proper consultation with their leadership. So, it is up to the Chair and the Senate Majority Leader to proceed with a one- sided Committee. It is entirely up to him because ---

Sen. Wetangula, do not involve me in your activities with the Senate Majority Leader. The Senate Minority Leader (

Wait a minute, Senate Majority Leader because I will call upon you to respond. You need to help us because the business that we have today is to make sure that we transact some good business for the country. That is why I was warning Sen. Wetangula not to involve me, from where I seat, in his skirmishes with the Senate Majority Leader.

The other thing that I want to make clear – just a brief observation – is that we do not have Committees and the failure is on both sides of the House. We do not have Committees and that is why we are doing some things, including this Motion on the establishment of an ad-hoc Committee.

Part of the paralysis is coming from both sides of the House. However, the other thing which is also important is that, in fact, the situation is even worse from the minority side. The information I have is that there is even no leadership of the minority as we speak. So, it is in that context, therefore, that we must look at these things holistically, but the overall objective – as you respond, Senate Majority Leader – let us help move the business of this House forward.

The Senate Minority Leader (Sen. Wetangula) : On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

It is okay, Sen. Wetangula. We have heard you but we spoke about the leadership, not the Leader of Minority. So, the ---

Wait a minute, Senate Majority Leader because I will call upon you to respond. You need to help us because the business that we have today is to make sure that we transact some good business for the country. That is why I was warning Sen. Wetangula not to involve me, from where I seat, in his skirmishes with the Senate Majority Leader. The other thing that I want to make clear – just a brief observation – is that we do not have Committees and the failure is on both sides of the House. We do not have Committees and that is why we are doing some things, including this Motion on the establishment of an ad-hoc Committee. Part of the paralysis is coming from both sides of the House. However, the other thing which is also important is that, in fact, the situation is even worse from the minority side. The information I have is that there is even no leadership of the minority as we speak. So, it is in that context, therefore, that we must look at these things holistically, but the overall objective – as you respond, Senate Majority Leader – let us help move the business of this House forward. The Senate Minority Leader (

No, let us be procedural.

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. (Sen. Murkomen walked to the Dispatch Box)

Senate Majority Leader, just be patient. Let us hear

records of the House has stopped that consultation that took place. This is my Motion. It is not a Motion of the Majority side. Yes, I am the Majority Leader. I have introduced it in my capacity as the Majority Leader but it is a Motion that I had drafted in the knowledge that both sides do not have Committees. As you have said, the fact that there are no Committees on both sides can paralyse the House.

Also, I acted in extreme public interest. Only a mad man in the market would oppose money going to every county. In fact, all these equality arguments that Sen. Wetangula argued here would only go ahead to serve the protection – in fact I would say that if I had announced on the Floor of the House how many Senators want to serve in this Committee, there should have been a stampede. A stampede because we all care about money going to our counties. We care for Homa Bay County and Siaya County the same way we do for Elgeyo-Marakwet County and Makueni County. It would be a shame tomorrow that Senators are bickering over who is the big man to the extent that they could not form a Committee to save money going to the counties. That hospitals cannot operate because we were arguing here who is the big man, who is the small man?

I am giving a way forward. If the four Senators from the Minority side came to Floor and said they are not interested to serve in this Committee, I would be willing, in the middle of the Motion, that we draft an amendment, to remove the names but we cannot stop money going to the counties.

Thank you, Majority Leader. Just a moment. There is a bit of interest but resume your seat Senator for Garissa.

Hon. Senators, as I said at the beginning, we have political issues which we do daily. We have a lot of opportunity to do it outside this Chamber mostly and then we have very serious legislative work like what we are discussing. So, before I allow further interventions which I would also request us to be moderated as far as possible, I would like to point out two things.

One is that the Leader of Majority has made a serious claim which should not be left either like that or without clarification. That is whether or not as we speak and as per procedure and law, we have a Leader of Minority presently. That is an issue I would want, not specifically because of this order, but going forward we would want to make that clarity. Therefore, we would want to perhaps look at the record and pronounce ourselves tomorrow. That is an issue of procedure.

You cannot appropriate powers you do not have. You cannot purport to be a whip or something else which you are not. That is why I said it is a very serious thing because if what the Majority Leader is saying is not true, then you owe Sen. Wetangula and his fraternity a big apology but if also it is true, likewise I will not hesitate to reprimand Sen. Wetangula for appropriating what he does not have yet. Instead of having the patience to wait if at all it will happen; when it happens you will enjoy it. It is a double edged sword.

As you can see I am now in a different format. I am no longer the Leader of Majority. So, I will be fair but very firm.

The Senate Minority Leader (Sen. Wetangula) : On a point of order!

No, let us be procedural.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, you heard those perverted polemics from the Majority Leader. The problem of appearing to know too much is that you end up looking like you know very little.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we are not here in competition on any issue. I am not interested in competing with the Senator for Elgeyo Marakwet on any issue. I sit on this side as the leader of the House. If he cared to say what he knows, if he does, unless he is suffering from selective amnesia; there is a letter from our coalition to the two Speakers informing them that the positions of minority leadership shall be held by hon. John Mbadi in the National Assembly and he occupies that office and yours truly in the Senate and I occupy that office. When the Speaker yesterday ruled that parties should constitute committees, he made no reference to the issue because he knows the facts.

Sometimes young Murkomen gets the exuberance of reckless youth---

So, what is your point of order? Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the point is, and I have heard you also speak, reading between the lines, of course, we can tell what is in your mind.

You cannot read my mind. Mr. Deputy Speaker, I did not say I read, I said I can tell.

Order, Senator! It will do you a lot of good to prosecute your issue. Leave the Chair completely out of this.

Absolutely. You know I have tremendous respect for the Chair.

On a point of order!

Sen. Wetangula, is it on a different issue?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, you heard those perverted polemics from the Majority Leader. The problem of appearing to know too much is that you end up looking like you know very little.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we are not here in competition on any issue. I am not interested in competing with the Senator for Elgeyo Marakwet on any issue. I sit on this side as the leader of the House. If he cared to say what he knows, if he does, unless he is suffering from selective amnesia; there is a letter from our coalition to the two Speakers informing them that the positions of minority leadership shall be held by hon. John Mbadi in the National Assembly and he occupies that office and yours truly in the Senate and I occupy that office. When the Speaker yesterday ruled that parties should constitute committees, he made no reference to the issue because he knows the facts.

Sometimes young Murkomen gets the exuberance of reckless youth---

Order! You refer to Sen. Murkomen as either the Majority Leader or as Sen. Murkomen.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, Sen. Murkomen gets carried away with exuberance of reckless youth and starts making unhelpful statements that will only pull him away from the endearment of his colleagues. He is a very clever young man, but sometimes when you misdirect your brain, it becomes toxic. I do not want to engage in such unhelpful arguments.

So, what is your point of order? Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the point is, and I have heard you also speak, reading between the lines, of course, we can tell what is in your mind.

You cannot read my mind. Mr. Deputy Speaker, I did not say I read, I said I can tell.

Order, Senator! It will do you a lot of good to prosecute your issue. Leave the Chair completely out of this.

Absolutely. You know I have tremendous respect for the Chair.

Order, Senator! We will do things differently. Prosecute your issue.

Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I have tremendous respect for the Chair. In any case, when you were the Leader of Majority, you conducted yourself differently. I do not want to drag you into that. I am sorry about that.

I just want to finish by saying; if the Majority Leader is waiting to amend the Motion, it is entirely up to him. The four Members he has listed will not serve in a Committee where they have been put, first, by a person who is not there leader and secondly, without consulting them properly. Even Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. is going to tell you that Sen. Murkomen of Elgeyo Marakwet County made a casual mention to him about a Committee. He did not tell him that he was inviting him to serve in a Committee. A casual mention is different from a consultation. Sen. Kajwang’ also received a casual mention and he is going to say so. Sen. Judy Pareno is not here, but I know---

Here she is! Here she is! Okay, she has come in. I had not seen her. I am sure she may also have received a casual mention. She is a senior Member of one of our major parties. She should be the last person to engage in any opportunistic moves because she has been given a casual mention by one Kipchumba Murkomen, the Leader of Majority.

I want to work with you in a bipartisan manner. I want to work with this House in a bipartisan manner. We want this House to defend and protect counties as we have always done. This will be done if we consult each other. This will not be done if we think we have consulted when we have not consulted and come to the floor and say we have consulted because we are speaking to the gallery and we want to look good and make others look bad. That is not how to run this House. This House will be run through consultations and respect. That is the only way. We can address the gallery and amuse ourselves, but that does not solve problems.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want you who has been sitting in that chair to help your colleagues who have come in on how you and I worked for five years. Even when we rubbed each other the wrong way here, it was with dignity and respect. I always said and I am very proud that in your formative years we worked together. I have always held the view that having worked with Sen. Murkomen for all that time, things can only improve not retrogress.

Thank you.

All right. We are making good progress. Very shortly, we will find a way out of this thing. As I said once more, we owe this nation a duty. I want to request a few more people to make their points very brief and kindly restrict yourselves to the issues under discussion.

Thank you very much, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I stand as an elder and a friend. From the argument, it looks there is a bit of confusion as to the legality of the Leader of Minority. However, he has clarified. In view of that clarification--- I also heard on the radio when I was coming that he was appointed as a leader and Hon. Mbadi, the leader on the other side. I am appealing to him, also as an elder and a brother that this issue is very important to our counties. In view of that, I am sure all these four gentlemen and lady whose names are here, if he was consulted I am sure he would have appointed them. In view of that, I want to appeal to him to let it go please for the sake of the country. He is one of the principals of National Super Alliance (NASA) . I am sure he would like to see our counties operating. With those remarks, Sir, I say, please resume your---

Thank you, Sen. Haji. That is very useful. That is the spirit that should inform us, especially, when we are doing this kind of work. When we are out there politicking, we can use our various styles. However, we cannot look as if we are not serious when we are handling such a serious issue. Many counties, Hon. Senators, are almost grinding to a halt. They have no money. Thank you, Sen. Haji. That was a good input. I am sure the Leader of Minority is listening and everybody else

from Sen. George Khaniri, Senator for Vihiga, who is also my age mate.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I want to add my voice to the de facto Leader of Minority side, Sen. Wetangula. We recognise him. For Sen. Murkomen’s information, we recognise Sen. Wetangula as our de facto leader.

This House has rules and procedures. We have practices and traditions. We do not want to create a bad precedence this early. Sen. Murkomen, the Leader of Majority is creating a very bad impression that it is this side of the House that does not want monies to go to the counties. He is missing the point. I do not mind serving in that Committee. I am very passionate about the matter and that is why I raised the issue about monies going to our counties before we broke for recess. I am very passionate. I want to serve on that Committee, but I do not want to be a product of a bad procedure that we want to set in the 12th Parliament.

We have leadership and I think Sen. Murkomen knows that. We need consultations. We are not going to run this House if that mutual respect and consultation is not going to be there. I will decline to serve until I am appointed through the right channels to this particular Committee. I will not be appointed by Sen. Murkomen. For the record, I was not consulted. He only walked up to me here and told me that he had put me on the Ad-Hoc Committee. That is not consultation. That is not my understanding of consultation. I, therefore, even before the Motion comes, just on the notice of the Motion, I decline and resist vehemently to serve on that particular Committee.

Now, I think we are getting somewhere. Since almost everybody wants to talk, I will limit the debate to one minute, specifically. I will hear Sen. Cheruiyot and then Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr., then we will see how to push this agenda forward. Does Sen. Pareno want to talk? She does not want. I have not seen her.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am willing to consult. Part of the thirty seconds can be put into consultation. We can have five minutes. Meanwhile, in my suggestion, the Motion for Sen. Dullo can be started and then we come back here to proceed.

You heard the very strong terms used by Sen. Wetangula on me. However, I did not raise any point of orders because you know he is the age of my father. He likes reminding me all the time that his son is my age and I have no shame. My father should be very proud, Sen. Wetangula, for this purpose that his son is sitting with him in the Senate, not for a first term, but a second term.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, with that in mind, I am more than willing to consult with him as soon as possible to take the business of this House forward. I appreciate the statements by the Senators who are in the Committee; they remained generally closer to the truth.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, forgetting all the things that have led us to this situation, will it be helpful if you would call to the Bar - now that you have been told there is a Leader of Minority - the minority side?

It appears to me that in all those many words, he is saying that he needs to be recognized as the one forwarding the names. Could you ask him if it is within his right and feeling right now to give us the names so that we move forward because I can very strongly say that the feeling on this side is that we want monies to be in the counties like yesterday?

With or without your support, unfortunately, money must go to the counties. So make up your minds. If you want to join the Committee. give us the names since the Senate Minority Leader is here. In any case, when we passed the disbursement schedule, you resisted. So, there is nothing new that you are trying to do today.

Please consult so that we do not keep having these issues in the House. It is becoming--- I lack the words to use, so let me respectful and hold back.

I ‘resist’ the temptation.

Approach the Chair.

We have heard you. We will allow Sen. Pareno to speak for one minute then we shall see how to proceed.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I came in when one of my Principals, Sen. Wetangula was submitting. I was keen to listen because I came in when the debate was going on. I want to say that on this issue we need to consult further so that we come up with a position that is not harmful to anybody and we are able to serve procedurally in a Committee that is agreeable to all of us.

I am a bit perturbed by the sentiments of Sen. Cheruiyot when he says the monies will go to the counties whether we are there or not. I do not think that is the kind of tone that would be leading us to the right direction. That is what I understood him to say. If you can do it on your own, then why are we struggling to form this Ad-hoc Committee? It simply means that somebody wants to do something in a procedural manner and not in the manner the talk suggests.

I suggest that we have more consultation with our leaders and be able to present the names accordingly.

You do not have to respond. You made your case very well in the two opportunities you had. In the interest of carrying everybody on board, and doing the right thing for our counties which is our core business, I would propose two options at the discretion of the sponsor of the Motion.

Option number one, which I highly recommend in order to carry everyone on board, is for the two leaders to retreat, like wise people and leaders, and talk; not now as

the county governments need money like yesterday or the fact that, lawfully, if certain legal instruments are not in place, the Treasury cannot disburse those monies.

The issue here is very simple; whether or not there was consultation, just that. So, the two gentlemen; my former counterpart, Sen. Wetangula and my successor, the Senate Leader of Majority, Sen. Murkomen, rise up to the occasion. You can have your five minutes and talk to one another. Even the Members from the minority side who have spoken are not saying that they do not want to serve in this Committee. They are just saying that their leader was not on board.

For your information, Sen. Pareno, you should clarify next time when you say your ‘principal’ has spoken; that it is the ‘principal’ of the National Super Alliance (NASA) because this House does not have Principals. We only have leaders here. However, when you say a principal of NASA we will understand because we are Kenyans. That is the first recommendation. Gentlemen, I am pleading with you to take that option for the sake of the country.

The second option is a default mechanism to make sure that the business of the House is not captured by the vagaries of partisan and personal competitive politics, is to ask the owner of the Motion to proceed with his Motion in an amended form. This is because you cannot force a Member who has said they do not want to serve if their leader is not consulted, to serve.

On the other hand, we do not have the luxury of time. I can assure you as we talk here this afternoon, that the entire country is watching us and listening. Let us therefore not trivialize what is happening here.Those are the two options at the discretion of the sponsor of the Motion. Either you consult if your brother is willing to listen to you and try and develop some camaraderie. I want to encourage this, especially inside here.

I want to encourage the Senate Majority Leader, Sen. Murkomen and the Leader of the Minority, with a lot of respect that the fights can be out there, but when we come here, let us only fight when maybe the business is partisan. I am not sure this one is.

Those are the two options. I will give the owner of the Motion thirty seconds to either tell me whether you want to consult or to proceed with the Motion in an amended form.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am willing to consult. Part of the thirty seconds can be put into consultation. We can have five minutes. Meanwhile, in my suggestion, the Motion for Sen. Dullo can be started and then we come back here to proceed.

You heard the very strong terms used by Sen. Wetangula on me. However, I did not raise any point of orders because you know he is the age of my father. He likes reminding me all the time that his son is my age and I have no shame. My father should be very proud, Sen. Wetangula, for this purpose that his son is sitting with him in the Senate, not for a first term, but a second term.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, with that in mind, I am more than willing to consult with him as soon as possible to take the business of this House forward. I appreciate the statements by the Senators who are in the Committee; they remained generally closer to the truth.

The Senate Minority Leader, would you want to say something? Do you want time out because we have to proceed?

I ceded my position to Sen. Wako. I wanted to say something---

No! No! We have not opened the Floor. The Floor is only open to the Senate Majority Leader and yourself to help us forge a way forward.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, you know very well as a consummate diplomat in this country, you do not negotiate with people you like. You talk to anybody and everybody. I am available.

The Senate Majority Leader, I will give you two or three minutes.

Give us a little more!

Approach the Chair.

The Leader of Majority, can you move the Motion?

The Senate Majority Leader (Sen. Murkomen) : Mr. Deputy Speaker, I, therefore, beg to move the Motion in an amended version:-

THAT, Aware that the primary role of the Senate is to protect the interest of counties and their governments; as provided for in Article 96 of the Constitution of Kenya; APPRECIATING that the Division of Revenue Act, 2017

and the County Allocation of Revenue Act, 2017

respectively provide for the sharing of revenue raised nationally between the National Government and County Governments and revenue raised nationally among County Governments, for financial year 2017/2018; NOTING the need for an amendment to the County Allocation of Revenue Act, 2017

, to provide for a seamless disbursement of funds to County Governments to enable them effectively implement County Governments projects and programmes; NOW THEREFORE, the Senate resolves–

Committee on the County Allocation of Revenue (Amendment) Bill 2017, comprising not more than nine Senators, to undertake the functions of the Standing Committee on Finance and Budget, as contemplated under Standing Order 212(3); b) that, the following Senators be appointed to the Committee;

What is your intervention, Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr.?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, even in our consultation, the Leader of Minority did not mention this. But we are of the view that, in view of the urgency of this matter, that under paragraph d), there should be a further amendment so that this Committee reports to this House latest either tomorrow or the earliest sitting possible. Thursday, November16, 2017 is too far.

The Leader of Majority, is that part covered?

November 8, 2017 SENATE DEBATES ESTABLISHMENT OF AD-HOC COMMITTEE ON THE COUNTY ALLOCATION OF REVENUE (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2017

Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr., are you satisfied with that explanation?

No! There is no reason to be ambiguous about this issue. If all of us agree that we can do this within 24 hours, it should be stated clearly so

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I also want to request, before I move the Motion, that both sides make it brief because the substance of this Motion is the Bill itself, which we must dispose of by tomorrow. I will be brief. Instead of the 60 minutes that I have been allocated, I will use three minutes so that all of us can speak on this and allow the Committee to prepare for the Bill. I am requesting this so that all of us can move forward a little bit faster. Therefore, I beg to move the Motion in an amended form. I sympathise with those who would have served and now they have no opportunity to serve in this Committee ---

The Leader of Majority, can you move the Motion? The Senate Majority Leader (

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I still emphasize that we cannot. We should have flexibilities and if the committee finds that there are certain errors that must be addressed, they will not be under constraint to come back tomorrow. If they find that the amendments are correct, they must come back tomorrow.

So, the urgency in terms of concluding it is upon ourselves to act expeditiously but we cannot close it. This drafting by the legal team of this Senate was well done to accommodate 24 hours and also accommodate a situation if it cannot be done in 24 hours. We cannot close ourselves to 24 hours when we cannot imagine what the committee will come up with.

Committee on the County Allocation of Revenue (Amendment) Bill 2017, comprising not more than nine Senators, to undertake the functions of the Standing Committee on Finance and Budget, as contemplated under Standing Order 212(3); b) that, the following Senators be appointed to the Committee;

time either tomorrow night or to sit on Friday and finish with this because it will not look good to take any further recess without this Bill being passed.

So, you may have to consider that bit of public participation also because we might take a day or half a day. If you asked me, talking of “on or before” means that date is the extreme but the earliest is now.

We will listen to just one intervention from Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. I will then give a minute to Sen. Wetangula and then the Senate Majority Leader will respond.

I do not need the Floor. If you do not need the Floor, then we will listen to Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. and then Sen. Murkomen who is the sponsor of this Motion will respond. That is what we will consider but we want everybody to be on board.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, from my experience in the Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget, we never had public participation on the Cash Disbursement Schedule or even the County Allocation of Revenue Bill.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, from the understanding of the communication from the Cabinet Secretary, there appears to be a discrepancy between the County Revenue Allocation Bill and the Cash Disbursement Schedule, which is simply getting the schedule and amending it. So, we do not need to consult the public because it could be a matter of a two or four being at the wrong place. The secretariat should have made those corrections by now. What the committee needs to do tomorrow is to sit and look at the amendments.

Senate Majority Leader, before you respond, as I have said, this is your Motion. Secondly, I said that we want to carry on board as many Members as possible so that we pass the Bill. Having said that, technically

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, if Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. was here yesterday to listen to the answer to the question by Sen. Khaniri, he would not be taking us back. Issues of whether it was a new Bill or not were addressed yesterday.

Secondly, there is absolutely nothing else we are talking about except splitting hairs. The technical staff of this Senate advised accordingly about how the procedure will be moved. I can only urge the Ad hoc committee to move expeditiously but I cannot anticipate the challenges they will face in accommodating this Bill. This is a new Bill and it will have to go to the National Assembly. We want to amend the County Allocation of Revenue Act (CARA) and that is why we have this Bill here. Since the National Assembly will go on recess, they might be forced to have a special sitting to pass this Bill. If they make any amendments, it will come back to this House. Let us proceed with what we need to do.

Very well, I think that has been canvassed exhaustively.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am aware of the importance of this Bill that we are supposed to amend. The errors that

No! There is no reason to be ambiguous about this issue. If all of us agree that we can do this within 24 hours, it should be stated clearly so

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, that is why I am saying that it is not as simple as people think. It is such a critical schedule that determines how money goes to our counties. We do not want people to say tomorrow that we were sleeping on the job. That is why, initially, when we were forming this Committee, I really wanted---

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I still insist that if you talk about “on or before” a particular day, that includes an hour from the time we have decided. Let us not---

Order, Senate Majority Leader. I see no difficulty in this and I do not see any big issue from both sides. I can also see that there is no difficulty for Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. because “on or before” could mean even now.

Generally, this House is committed to finishing this process tomorrow. Unless there is another reason, I do not see a big challenge there. Equally, unless the Senate Majority Leader has a different reason, if talking of tomorrow could help us move forward, I do not see any big problem unless it is something else we do not know.

Let us first hear the Senate Minority Leader so that you respond in totality. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, in the bi-partisan spirit and the nature of the urgency of this matter, I encourage the Senate Majority Leader to take--- If you have been here as long as myself, Sen. Haji, Sen. Orengo and Sen. Wako, then you know that there used to be a catch phrase in the old days. You could hear Poghisio telling people that the roads would be tarmacked or this and that would be done “when money was available”.

There is a saying in English that you should say what you mean and mean what you say. It does no harm if Sen. Murkomen is in a frame of urgency, like he has said, to take a cue from Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. and fix the time frame to tomorrow because we will be here and we all want to debate and pass this. When you talk of “on or before” you know how fluid that means. It is an escape route for anybody who does not want to move.

Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. to sit in this Committee is because he was in the previous Budget Committee. He appreciates how the Committee was working. He is one of the few Senators who served in that Committee that were re-elected.

My consideration was also on the ability of a person who has that history to assist us to ensure that that process moves forward. I am very sure that in a bipartisan manner we will do other things in future, but expertise might still be necessary on consultation basis with the Ad-Hoc Committee on those issues.

I beg to move and request Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. to second this Motion. I still insist on my initial request. As you realise, I have cut my time and not taken ten minutes, so that everybody can have two or three minutes. We need to dispose of this matter and allow the Committee to start working to enable us finish the work tomorrow.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I rise to support the Motion to set up this Ad-Hoc Committee. I need not to say much about the Members because we have agreed. I want to remind the Senate Majority Leader, Sen. Murkomen, that there is a reason the Senate Minority Leader is in this House.

I have two comments. First, given my experience in the Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget, and having read the Bill, that this Committee should interrogate this issue. This is because even from the reading of this Bill, the Schedule that is being amended is the Schedule on conditional grants. The money that has not been disbursed is shareable revenue. The conditional grants are from the national Government, given to counties on conditions of their donor partners.

The Senate Majority Leader should have interrogated this issue, so that we understand whether in future our counties will be starved of funds because there is a discrepancy on an agreement made between the national Government and the donor. That would be violation of the constitution. I do not believe that Article 219, which requires the Cabinet Secretary (CS) , Treasury, to release funds once we have passed, should also be tied to conditional grants. This was on something that I believe will be raised here on the case of KSP grants in which we did not include the Division of Revenue for the last two financial years.

With that in mind, the speed under which this Committee should act is not gainsaid, but that should be interrogated. The Committee and our technical team, that is, Mr. Masinde and others, should be able to advise us, because we do not want the CS, Treasury, to impose another condition that is not in law and the Constitution on conditional grants.

The schedule that is attached to this Bill has got no discrepancy on shareable revenue. Therefore, the money that we have agreed and passed here, in our mandate under Article 96, is not affected. The statement made by my colleagues that we have procrastinated and stopped the disbursement of shareable revenue is not correct.

With all that in mind and that said, I second.

Next order. Those who are exiting must exit in dignity and those who are remaining must also remain in dignity.

The Mover of Order No. 11 has requested that we defer that Order to tomorrow.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, from my experience in the Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget, we never had public participation on the Cash Disbursement Schedule or even the County Allocation of Revenue Bill.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, from the understanding of the communication from the Cabinet Secretary, there appears to be a discrepancy between the County Revenue Allocation Bill and the Cash Disbursement Schedule, which is simply getting the schedule and amending it. So, we do not need to consult the public because it could be a matter of a two or four being at the wrong place. The secretariat should have made those corrections by now. What the committee needs to do tomorrow is to sit and look at the amendments.

Senate Majority Leader, before you respond, as I have said, this is your Motion. Secondly, I said that we want to carry on board as many Members as possible so that we pass the Bill. Having said that, technically

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, if Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. was here yesterday to listen to the answer to the question by Sen. Khaniri, he would not be taking us back. Issues of whether it was a new Bill or not were addressed yesterday.

Secondly, there is absolutely nothing else we are talking about except splitting hairs. The technical staff of this Senate advised accordingly about how the procedure will be moved. I can only urge the Ad hoc committee to move expeditiously but I cannot anticipate the challenges they will face in accommodating this Bill. This is a new Bill and it will have to go to the National Assembly. We want to amend the County Allocation of Revenue Act (CARA) and that is why we have this Bill here. Since the National Assembly will go on recess, they might be forced to have a special sitting to pass this Bill. If they make any amendments, it will come back to this House. Let us proceed with what we need to do.

Very well, I think that has been canvassed exhaustively.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am aware of the importance of this Bill that we are supposed to amend. The errors that

Attorney-General’s Office and then to this Senate. Last time when we were looking at this Bill, most people were already focused on elections. So, there was no meticulous looking at the various schedules to ensure that they are in conformity.

If you look at the Bill that is being amended, you will realise that we are deleting some parts of Section 5 and inserting new sections, thereafter, to correct the schedule. This is so critical.

If you saw the letter that came from the Treasury yesterday, they would be constrained to release any money because the quarterly release will be following the particular schedule that is provided for here. In fact, it is even worse, as the Principal Secretary (PS) answered yesterday, when it comes to donor funds because there is already a particular timeline that was agreed to in the negotiation and agreements with the national Government. The reason the resources are not being allocated seamlessly to the counties at the moment is these errors. It also goes to remind us that there is nothing too small in law.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, a number of Senators, that is, Sen. Wako, Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr, Sen. Cheruiyot, who came slightly later, and Sen. Dullo were here when we fought to have a right to look at the County Allocation Revenue Bill and the Division of Revenue Bill. Therefore, we cannot take it casually. It is important for every Senator to have even this Schedule, so that every time they can find out whether their counties have received their money and monitor how they spend it.

I also want to request the Ad-Hoc Committee not to take this work casually. Do not just look at it as a rubberstamp. Go and sit down with the staff in Budget Office and let them take you through what was wrong and what has been corrected, so that we do not go through this process again and when it reaches the National Assembly, it is changed and returned here. It will become the normal excuse that Makueni County cannot get money because the Schedule of Makueni---

Sen. Wako is a good example. Because of errors, money meant for Busia County was posted to Bungoma County. It took a lot of negotiations – similar to the negotiations we had here – that involved the Senator for Bungoma and the Senator for Busia. Sen. Wako had to move between the Treasury and the office of the Senate Minority Leader until that issue was resolved.

Therefore, these errors can be as fatal as you can see and actually embarrass Senators. If tomorrow it appears that some money for Elgeyo-Marakwet County has been posted to Tharaka-Nithi County it can make me lose my seat. People will say that Sen. Murkomen has cut a deal with the Senator for Tharaka-Nithi County and given out the money---

Leave out the Senator for Tharaka- Nithi County for now.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, that is why I am saying that it is not as simple as people think. It is such a critical schedule that determines how money goes to our counties. We do not want people to say tomorrow that we were sleeping on the job. That is why, initially, when we were forming this Committee, I really wanted---

Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. to sit in this Committee is because he was in the previous Budget Committee. He appreciates how the Committee was working. He is one of the few Senators who served in that Committee that were re-elected.

My consideration was also on the ability of a person who has that history to assist us to ensure that that process moves forward. I am very sure that in a bipartisan manner we will do other things in future, but expertise might still be necessary on consultation basis with the Ad-Hoc Committee on those issues.

I beg to move and request Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. to second this Motion. I still insist on my initial request. As you realise, I have cut my time and not taken ten minutes, so that everybody can have two or three minutes. We need to dispose of this matter and allow the Committee to start working to enable us finish the work tomorrow.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I rise to support the Motion to set up this Ad-Hoc Committee. I need not to say much about the Members because we have agreed. I want to remind the Senate Majority Leader, Sen. Murkomen, that there is a reason the Senate Minority Leader is in this House.

I have two comments. First, given my experience in the Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget, and having read the Bill, that this Committee should interrogate this issue. This is because even from the reading of this Bill, the Schedule that is being amended is the Schedule on conditional grants. The money that has not been disbursed is shareable revenue. The conditional grants are from the national Government, given to counties on conditions of their donor partners.

The Senate Majority Leader should have interrogated this issue, so that we understand whether in future our counties will be starved of funds because there is a discrepancy on an agreement made between the national Government and the donor. That would be violation of the constitution. I do not believe that Article 219, which requires the Cabinet Secretary (CS) , Treasury, to release funds once we have passed, should also be tied to conditional grants. This was on something that I believe will be raised here on the case of KSP grants in which we did not include the Division of Revenue for the last two financial years.

With that in mind, the speed under which this Committee should act is not gainsaid, but that should be interrogated. The Committee and our technical team, that is, Mr. Masinde and others, should be able to advise us, because we do not want the CS, Treasury, to impose another condition that is not in law and the Constitution on conditional grants.

The schedule that is attached to this Bill has got no discrepancy on shareable revenue. Therefore, the money that we have agreed and passed here, in our mandate under Article 96, is not affected. The statement made by my colleagues that we have procrastinated and stopped the disbursement of shareable revenue is not correct.

With all that in mind and that said, I second.

November 8, 2017 SENATE DEBATES Is there any interest?

Next order. Those who are exiting must exit in dignity and those who are remaining must also remain in dignity.

The Mover of Order No. 11 has requested that we defer that Order to tomorrow.

Management Bill which was assented to on 1st April, 2016 and which seeks to comprehensively address the matter of persistent droughts in the country; NOW THEREFORE, the Senate calls upon the Ministry of Interior and Coordination of National Government and relevant state agencies responsible including the National Drought Management Authority to-