Wednesday 5th November, 2025

Clerk, do we have quorum?

Serjeant-at-Arms, kindly ring the Quorum Bell for 10 minutes.

Serjeant-at-Arms, ring the Quorum Bell for a further 10 minutes.

Let us settle down, hon. Senators. Clerk, you may proceed to call out the first Order.

Services, Senate.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, we have heard that you have amended the order of business, so that we can start with No.10 and then go back to the question. However, could you clarify whether the Senate is now waiting for a Cabinet Secretary? Is it the procedure of Parliament that when Cabinet Secretaries are asked to come, Parliament must wait for them?

Well, I asked the Clerk to usher in the Cabinet Secretary. While that is being done, we will proceed to Order No.10. That is what I said.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move the following Motion- THAT, the Senate notes the Report of the Kenya Parliamentary Delegation to the 150th Assembly of the Inter-Parliamentary Union (IPU) and related meetings held in Tashkent, Uzbekistan from 5th to 9th April, 2025, laid on the Table of the Senate on Wednesday, 8th October, 2025.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the 150th Assembly of the Inter-Parliamentary Union was held in Tashkent, Uzbekistan, a very beautiful country. When we were going, we did not know what this was all about but Tashkent is one of the most beautiful cities that we went to in a very well-organised meeting.

The debate focused on the overall theme of Parliamentary Action for Social Development and Justice and provided parliamentarians an opportunity to discuss topical issues including poverty reduction, decent work, social integration, increased participation of the population in decision-making, among other issues. A number of resolutions were adopted and three resolutions were proposed by the then President, Ms. Tulia Axon, to ensure that we invest more in people; ensure the public sector takes care of people and equips them with the tools to thrive, make the economy work through fairer distribution of economic gains and involving everyone in economic decision-making and strengthening all institutions that underpin the social contract.

Referencing the general debate, there was a call for urgent and concrete parliamentary action on social development and justice. Several members of parliament from different places raised concerns about the rising cases of poverty.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, we participated. You made a very strong statement about the policies in Kenya and what we are trying to do in terms of social development, among other things. There was even a field trip in Tashkent, where a team of legislators were taken, and I was among them. We went to look at the manner of service provision and implementation of the health function within Uzbekistan.

We were able to pick some very good methodologies of working with communities to ensure safe and healthy communities. Following that, one of the decisions that was made during this IPU Assembly was to transition a health advisory committee into a health committee of the IPU and that health committee was set up. I am

Services, Senate. happy to report that I was elected among the first Members of Parliament to sit in the newly formed IPU Health Committee.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, without taking so much time, I wish to basically indicate that IPU is usually a delegation of a strong membership from both the National Assembly and the Senate, but you led the team.

I was there as a member, hon. Millie Odhiambo was also present, making good reports on the human rights of parliamentarians. Also present, we had hon. John Kiarie, hon. Titus Lotee, hon. Clive Gisairo, hon. John Makali and Sen. Raphael Chimera.

We also had the Clerk, Mr. Jeremiah Nyegenye, the Deputy Clerk, Eunice Gichangi, Mr. Benedict Furaha, Mr. Nicholas Emegen, Mr. Innocent Baya, Mr. John Muse, Ms. Madeleine Kisama and Ms. Alice Kahuria who did a very good job for our country, Kenya. I will not go too much into the report. I call upon the Senate Majority Leader to second me.

I thank you.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to second this Motion which is a report of our Kenya Parliamentary Delegation to the 150th IPU and related meetings held in a city whose name Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale would easily swallow his tongue if he tried to mention. It took place in Tashkent, Uzbekistan, from 5th to 9th April,

(Inaudible)

Mr. Speaker, Sir, my apologies. I do not intend to send you back to Kamale by taking away your very distinct role as the Head of Delegation in the IPU. Sen. Catherine Mumma has done justice by reminding me. Thank you.

I appreciate that three months, after this delegation was in Uzbekistan, we have a report and their findings. Sen. Mumma and your team, it is my sincere hope that the lessons learnt in here will be translated further in the deliberations of your Committee on Justice, Legal Affairs and Human Rights, where you serve alongside other eminent colleagues of this House.

With those many remarks, I beg to second.

Services, Senate.

Hon. Senators, I will now proceed to propose the question.

The Floor is open for debate. Proceed, Sen. Boni.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I rise to support this Motion. The history of the IPU stretches to hundreds of years ago. Initially, the reason why IPU was founded was to further amongst other things, democracy, in the community of nations worldwide.

I congratulate Sen. Catherine Mumma for participating in this very important conference together with our colleagues. Since we have no other way to express some of these things, if indeed, the IPU is about the greater role of democratisation within the communities of the world, I urge the IPU to up its game and find the strength to speak to African leaders.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, today, we are seeing presidential elections in African countries being conducted by the sitting presidents in office who give no role to the electoral commissions in their countries. In the process, their opponents are locked out of the race, arrested, detained, abducted and even killed. The IPU must take over the role of the African Union (AU) because instead of AU speaking to this, they are busy congratulating their colleagues.

The AU has now become a talk shop and a special club for African presidents to protect each other. We know of recent elections in Africa where senior African politicians have witnessed elections in their countries from prison; charged with treason. We know of African countries where thousands of citizens have been killed.

We know of African countries where Kenyans are being harassed in their hotels and in their businesses, among other places in those countries, because they are being suspected of being the ones responsible for the unrest. Africans should know that Kenyans are very hard-working people. When they go to their countries, they are looking for business. They are not there to play politics.

I would like, at least, as far as Kenya is concerned, that our Government protects its citizens in such countries where they are currently being harassed. When I see the kind of business that African countries are losing due to instability, I wish the Standing Orders of the Parliament of Kenya could be amended so that we hold substantive debate on this very serious issue.

For some of us, our communities cut across nations. For example, the Kenyan Somali. Their relatives are also in Somalia and Ethiopia. So, when unrest takes place in those two countries, how is the Kenyan Somali expected to keep quiet?

Similarly, the Luos and the Maasais are both in Kenya and Tanzania. When their relatives face these kind of atrocities; are they supposed to keep quiet? This also applies to the Luhyas and Tesos; our relatives are in Uganda. When these things happen, are we supposed to keep quiet?

Maybe we should change Standing Orders so that African parliaments can boldly debate the nonsense that is going on where the AU has failed. I support.

Services, Senate.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The IPU is a very important organisation in the world. Just as Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale had observed, it could be useful in advising and guiding the many principles that Members of Parliament, all over Africa, and many other parts of the world could advise governments or influence politics in a certain way.

What has been happening in the world currently is very unique. The situation in Sudan, the violence in Tanzania, what we have seen in Nigeria, Christians being butchered in churches, yet it is reported that Muslims are killed more than Christians, prompting the American Government to intervene and put an end these groups which kill people. The IPU could help resolve these matters.

I believe that all these countries, their Members of Parliament attend the IPU conferences. They are part of the organisations aimed at bringing peace into the world, giving suggestions and influencing politics for the betterment of the world. Sharing experiences and best practices could improve the situation. I believe the best practices of politics could make the world better because it seems the world is led by politicians. Politicians influence what happens in many situations.

I have seen the report of the observers. Some of our Members of Parliament went to observe the elections in Tanzania. They have brought back very interesting scenarios, whereby the citizens decided to attack property belonging to politicians whom they thought had caused a strain in these particular countries.

That is something to be learned by ourselves and by many parliaments of the world. When citizens decide to target certain people and destroy their property completely; former presidents, influential people in parliament and influential people in political parties, they target that particular family.

It is a very sad situation to see that when politics destabilise a country, it is innocent people who suffer. A case in point is Sudan, whereby you will see families running away having lost their residences, families divided and lives lost.

I believe there are Members of the Parliament from Sudan who probably attended the IPU and who could have shared experiences with people from different places of the world. We could reduce the suffering of people through parliaments when Members of Parliament share their experiences.

It is very interesting to see how political parties and politics are conducted. Quite a number of our very good friends in Uganda, have lost their nominations. Most of them were targeted; even the ones in cabinet. It was decided that they would not be nominated again and that it was time for them to go home. However, they resisted and decided to stand as independent candidates. They want to go back to the people while the people are telling them, please, take a little bit of rest, we support somebody else and maybe we will have you in future.

I believe these experiences, if shared, each one of us would learn something from another Member of Parliament from another country. Every time there are international gatherings, MPs really share their experiences on politics, development and how generally a country gets affected when politicians or political parties take certain decisions.

Services, Senate.

We have our own experience here, whereby with the death of Raila Odinga, everything seems to have gone back to the drawing board. People are realizing that this man, Raila Odinga, was really holding a very important place in this country; from the days he was in Parliament to the many matters he has participated in locally and internationally and to the bringing in of a new Constitution.

It had gotten to a point whereby the old Constitution could no longer hold this nation together. However, politicians and MPs came together, looked at the best constitutions all over the world; looked for the best legal practices and came up with a Constitution which is largely accepted. After elections, people were able to move on.

I wish other nations could pick an example of Kenya, the way Raila Odinga behaved; the way he was able to move on after an election. I think many nations do not know how to move on after an election gone wrong. He was able to bring the country together and bring peace to our country.

When you travel around, you are able to appreciate how important peace is in a country. There are countries where you cannot drive at night due to curfews and where people who want to travel are stranded in airports, all because of politics and decisions made by politicians in parliaments. This makes us begin having the sense that a country is bigger than us and that the positions we hold in this country go a long way to determine the destinies of other Kenyans.

I believe with all the experiences shared from this particular IPU meeting, we will learn from those who participated, pick their experiences and make the world a better place.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I support.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I also wish to support this report by Sen. Mumma. I hope that Sen. Mumma and her team enjoyed because this country is known for its hospitality towards people visiting their country.

The resolutions made at the 150th Assembly were very serious. I feel if the Members who participated in it could bring back some of those suggestions here and we implement them, we would go a long way in shaping the country, the way we would wish future generations to see it.

There is the issue of youth empowerment. We talk about youth, day-in, day-out. Yesterday, we were discussing about providing internship opportunities to young people in an easy way so that they are remunerated in a way that they will appreciate that they are giving service to this country.

When you actually look at the wider discussion on empowering young people, you will find that they first need to be put in avenues where they can also take decisions and be part of the decision-making process. I know we have the youth parliament in other countries. That is an idea that we also need to think about in Kenya. With a youth Parliament, we will be giving young people room for dialogue so that they also grow their skills in shaping leadership in this country. That is one of the key issues that I picked from the Assembly.

The other issue is on women empowerment. You realise when women are involved in decision-making, we are likely to have decisions which are incorporated from a wider perspective because women in this country endure so many challenges.

Services, Senate. Therefore, when they are giving views on a certain matter, it is most likely issues they have experienced. So, whatever they are proposing is an idea which is likely to assist the country at large.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, that country also is largely invested. They have a slogan, that is, “from poverty to prosperity.” As Members of Parliament (MPs) one of the main reasons we are here is to make laws which are meant to enable ordinary citizens to support themselves in whatever economic activities they engage in. We need to be deliberate, that we want to alleviate poverty, through legislation that favours such kind of activities.

There is also the issue of climate change. That is a discussion we have had and there have been attempts to urge the general public to engage in tree planting. I am yet to see if Kenyans largely have taken it up because people are looking at it like an activity which just happens on one day and we call it a day. We need to change our culture so that this is in us. We should not only participate for commemorating a specific day, Mazingira Day, but every single day, we need to look at how we can protect the environment so that we are in a society which is conducive for everybody.

Finally, is investing in people, especially vulnerable groups because those are the ones who are not able to fend for themselves. We have Persons with Disability (PwDs), the young people and the senior citizens. This is where social protection comes in.

Issues that are talked about at the IPU are very serious when we mirror Kenya. They should not just be compressed to a report. We need to take action, especially from some of those key recommendations that I have mentioned. You can even see they were talking about responsible AI. That is where we are now and we cannot fight such. We only need to look at how to use AI responsibly to shape narratives; the way we manufacture content and so many other things.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, allow me to end my contribution there by thanking Parliament for always supporting members to share ideas with other Parliaments and to learn best practices that we can adopt as legislators.

Thank you.

Sen. Catherine Mumma, you may reply as the Mover.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I wish to reply. First, I thank colleagues who have contributed to this Motion and to inform you that this is one of the fora that I have attended and witnessed serious commitment by the delegations. At every Assembly of this forum, they look for a Kenyan when there is an opportunity in any of the coming teams to be elected because we sit in those meetings and we contribute seriously.

When we come back, we try to put some of those things in play. I am in the working group on science and technology. The issues that have been raised on AI are issues that you may have heard me speak about on this Floor. I have talked about internet governance and what we need to do to balance around issues of technology and how Parliament plays a catch-up role in terms of raising legislation.

Hon. Members, you may not be aware, I know we have a lot of debate about cyber security and cyber freedoms. However, this is something that requires objective dealing by Parliament so that we actually have a law that balances freedoms of expression as well as protection of rights of those who would be harmed as a result of the new technologies.

Services, Senate.

I want to report that hon. Millie Odhiambo chairs and sits on the Committee on Human Rights of Parliamentarians. We have a separate committee on Human Rights and Democracy. We have a Human Rights of Parliamentarians Committee. That committee receives petitions and investigates violations of rights of political opponents and has done a sterling job. It always investigates and reports very objectively and has come up with indictments on some of these issues.

We also have moved here. You are aware, Members, that I came up with a Counter-Trafficking in Persons (Amendment) Bill to include orphanage trafficking among the laws in Kenya. That is an idea I got from the IPU after a discussion.

Hon. Speaker, once it went to the National Assembly, for some reason or other, they treated it as if it was a Bill that should not have passed through the Senate. So, I will be speaking to you to see whether we can appeal that decision so that we process that law.

Basically, all areas of economic development are discussed at the IPU and all interest groups are represented in the discussions. The Speaker usually carries, on his delegation, every so often, youth to participate in the IPU youth sectors. Women are also considered so on. We will continue doing that.

I also want to report that I was looked for because of my participation in the formulation of the UN Convention on Disability, I have been included in the team that will be developing an IPU resolution on disability. I am also working on that bit.

Therefore, I wish to thank Members for what they have said and to invite them to keep taking an interest. We learn a lot about what is happening in other jurisdictions and that improves our participation.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Clerk, do we have the requisite quorum before I put the question?

We do? Alright. So, Hon. Senators, I will proceed to put the question.

Hon. Senators, we will now go back to questions. I am informed that the Cabinet Secretary is already in the House. Hon. Cabinet Secretary, welcome to the Senate once again.

Hon. Senators, we have 21 questions for the Cabinet Secretary to be responded to between now and 1.15 p.m. Therefore, that means we will be allocating time per question. If you look at your clock, we have about less than three hours to receive responses to those 21 questions. So, I will be limiting the time for questions so that we

Services, Senate. cover all these 21 questions. We will start with Question No.13 by the Senator for Kirinyaga who seems to have three Questions to ask the Cabinet Secretary.

Sen. (Dr.) Murango, the Floor is yours. You may proceed to ask the Question. Since he is not here, those three questions are dropped.

Next is the Senator for Kakamega, Sen. (Dr.) Boni. Question No. 026

Mr. Speaker, Sir, before I ask my Question, allow me to extend my condolences to the family of the wife of J.M. Kariuki, Mama Terry Kariuki, who has passed on. I request the Cabinet Secretary, owing to the unique history of Josiah Mwangi Kariuki in this country, that the state takes note that his wife is dead.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to ask the Cabinet Secretary for Interior and Question No.026.

Services, Senate.

(ii) The violent altercation between rival groups at Bulimbo Primary School in Kholera Ward on 2nd December, 2023 during the burial of the late Sen. Godliver Nanjira Omondi, resulting in numerous injuries and significant damage to property.

(iii) The altercation between H.E. Hon. FCPA Fernandes Barasa, OGW, Governor of Kakamega County, and Hon. Elsie Muhanda, MP, Women Representative for Kakamega County, at a public function in Eregi area in Ikolomani Constituency on 17th November, 2024, which sparked tension among residents of the county.

(iv) The violent altercation between rival groups at Matungu Constituency on 8th February, 2025 during the burial of the late Chief Agostino Odongo, resulting in numerous injuries and significant damage to property?

financiers or sponsors of these acts of violence and explain why they have not yet been arrested and arraigned in court?

and to guarantee security at public functions, particularly those attended by politicians?

Hon. Cabinet Secretary, you may proceed to respond. The Cabinet Secretary for Interior and National Administration

: Mr. Speaker, Sir, once again, I am very happy to be here to respond to questions by hon. Senators.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, with your permission, I have looked at the Questions. Please allow me three minutes to do an introductory overview of the issues that touch on policy, so that when I answer directly, I will just focus on specific incidences for every county and for every Senator.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is my singular honour to appear before this august House to shed light on issues that Members have asked on behalf of the people of Kenya. By doing so, we remain accountable and transparent in our operations, policies and decisions as demanded by Article 153 (3) of the Constitution. In our actions and undertakings, fidelity to the Constitution is always the guiding principle.

The country is calm, peaceful and stable. Over the past seven months, however, we have faced sporadic issues of infiltration of peaceful demonstrations, banditry, land disputes and resource conflicts. We have also faced service delivery challenges attributable to budgetary shortfalls. The prevalence of these challenges in the wider society is reflected by the questions that hon. Senators have been seeking clarifications in the past few months.

One of the security issues that has captured the attention of the public lately is the violence perpetrated through boda boda operators, especially torching of vehicles in road traffic accidents. This is the very issue that has been raised by the Senator for Tharaka Nithi, Sen. Mwenda Gataya.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, as you may be aware, we have just returned from our 47 counties tour under the Jukwaa la Usalama banner, where we engaged members of the public and security stakeholders on security issues and service delivery challenges at the grassroots. The fora revealed concerns that criminal elements have infiltrated the boda boda sector across the country. It is a complaint in almost every county. The issue is particularly prevalent in Western, Nyanza and Nairobi.

Services, Senate.

The boda boda sector remains a vital pillar of Kenya’s transport economy, providing employment and livelihoods for thousands of youth nationwide. However, its rapid growth with minimal regulations has led to disorder, lawlessness and rising insecurity associated with unregistered and unidentified riders. I think it is Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale who has been working on something on the same subject.

To ensure that the sector contributes optimally to the economy while at the same time preserving law and order, we are working with the National Transport and Safety Authority (NTSA) and county governments to ensure all operators are registered under Savings and Credit Cooperative Organisations (SACCOs) and assigned operation areas.

The leadership of a SACCO will in return enforce discipline and report rogue operators to the authorities. We are also exploring modalities of incorporating the leaders into community policing to enhance responsibility and aid in intelligent gathering. Criminal elements who masquerade as boda boda operators will be prosecuted to protect the image of the sector and the public.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I need to caution that in a number of areas, including Kisii and some parts of Western, it was very disheartening to note that some of the boda boda operators are being misused by political actors by being given uniforms to act on their behalf and cause violence. In Kisii, for example, a small group of them was being used to “discipline” but in the actual sense, it was to attack civilians who were raising concerns about governance, among other issues.

Since my reassignment to this Ministry, we have made significant progress in containing banditry and livestock theft across the North Rift and Upper Eastern areas. Through operation Maliza Uhalifu, our security agents have successfully silenced the guns in a number of parts of Kerio Valley and neighbouring counties. Trading centres have reopened, children are back to school and communities that once lived in fear are coexisting peacefully.

The establishment of the second operation Maliza Uhalifu command in criminal areas like Laikipia County will further enhance the fight against banditry, cattle rustling and illegal arms movement in Samburu, Baringo and Laikipia counties. These gains were realised through intelligence-led targeted operations and close coordination amongst security agencies.

Building on this development, we have started a new focus called rehabilitation. In July 2025, I extended an olive branch for voluntary surrender of illegal firearms, leading to the recovery of 600 weapons and surrender of several notorious bandits.

The Ministry has also initiated empowerment and reintegration programme for reformed bandits, offering education, skills training and alternative livelihoods to them. This approach coupled with development projects spearheaded by the Government of President William Ruto is transforming the North Rift and ensuring we are on the path to lasting peace and prosperity.

In the Upper Eastern, the northern part of Meru County, especially Igembe North, Mutuati, Igembe Central, Tigania East, Tigania West, Buuri East and Buuri West sub counties, have had a long time experience of banditry and cattle rustling. Following the deployment of additional security personnel and equipment for the past two years, the challenges have been largely contained, except for a few here and there.

Services, Senate.

To sustain the gains and eliminate threats in the long-term, we are enhancing the role of the National Police Reservists (NPRs), constructing security roads and engaging communities for better management of grazing and water rights.

In our urban areas, we have dismantled organised criminal gangsters such as Panga Boys, Wakali Wao, Confirm, Gaza, 42 Brothers, among others that have been terrorizing residents through muggings, extortion and drug trafficking. Through multi- agency intelligence-driven operations, these networks have been disrupted, their leaders apprehended and law and order restored in cities like Mombasa, Nakuru and Kisumu. Working with local administrators and communities, we have reclaimed the neighbourhoods once ruled by fear. Public spaces are now safer, businesses are thriving again and citizens move freely without intimidation.

We remain resolute in preventing the resurgence of such gangs because this is something that keeps coming up in ensuring urban safety. The Ministry has also accelerated the modernisation of the National Police Service (NPS) through enhanced training, acquisition of modern equipment, improved housing and digitisation of operational systems.

These reforms are strengthening discipline, professionalism and efficiency, positioning our security agencies to better respond to emerging threats and serve citizens with integrity. These modernisation plans include the introduction of the digital Occurrence Book (OB), installation of Closed-Circuit Television (CCTV) cameras within and around police stations and integration of data management to enhance transparency and accountability.

Hon. Cabinet Secretary--- The Cabinet Secretary for Interior and National Administration

: Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Indeed, under Standing Orders, especially Standing Order No.51 (6) (c) , with the permission of the Speaker, you may actually address the House on matters touching on your docket. However, for purposes of today’s appearance, some specific questions have been raised. Looking at the time that we have, we will better utilise this time when you respond to these questions specifically, especially the one that has been asked by the Hon. Senator for Kakamega County, so that we make progress. Otherwise, with the 21 questions, we may not even go halfway if we proceed in the manner in which you have started.

The Cabinet Secretary for Interior and National Administration

: Mr. Speaker, Sir, I asked your permission because instead of providing all these answers to the different questions, I decided to summarize them in an introduction, so that I do not need to explain the other issues. I am only remaining with one page.

When I go to his question, I will just cite specific incidents without going back to the policy issues.

So, your statement is a response to all the policy issues---

The Cabinet Secretary for Interior and National Administration

: Yes, the policy issues that cut across all the questions.

Services, Senate.

Just conclude. The Cabinet Secretary for Interior and National Administration

: Mr. Speaker, Sir, these modernisation plans include the introduction of digital OB systems, installation of CCTV cameras within and around police facilities and the integration of data management systems to enhance transparency, accountability and real-time coordination in police operations.

Following the Jukwaa la Usalama engagements, we have set in motion reforms in our institutions, particularly the NPS. We have also developed a policy framework on transfers and promotions, ensuring that no police officer serves in the same station for more than three years, to enhance accountability and professionalism.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, more reforms are underway touching on welfare, resource allocation, adequate fuel allocation, improved mobility, continuous capacity building and modernisation of police infrastructure. We are also at the advanced stage in the development of a modern police station, in a bid to strengthen service delivery.

In the same spirit, we have rolled out comprehensive reforms within the National Government Administration Office (NGAO) framework. An elaborate scheme of service has been developed to guarantee career progression, supported by structured training and retraining programmes to enhance administrative competence and leadership at all levels.

This year alone, we have trained 8,073 chiefs and assistant chiefs in induction, paralegal and security management courses. Besides, 804 assistant county commissioners have been trained and awarded diplomas in public administration certificates. We have also decentralised various programmes across the board.

In conclusion, the Jukwaa la Usalama Initiative has proven invaluable in identifying systemic challenges that have long hindered effective service delivery by engaging directly with the officers and the public on the ground. We are solving problems that could never have been fully understood from boardrooms in Nairobi.

Some of the far-reaching operational and policy changes arising out of the Jukwaa la Usalama forums that will need the support of Parliament will be coming to you at a later date, dear hon. Senators, for your consideration.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, with your indulgence now, I beg to move to the detailed responses to the questions. I think it was Question No.26 from Hon. Boni Khalwale, and to save time considering the number of questions, I will not repeat the question itself; I will just go straight to answering.

Part (a) is the status of investigations into the attack on Hon. Peter Salasya, MP, at a Harambee in Bukhaya Catholic Church in Mumias town, on 12th November, 2023. The MP for Mumias East Constituency, Hon. Peter Salasya, attended a Harambee at Bukhaya Catholic Church in Mumias town on 12th November, 2023.

The event, organised by the Western Region Members of Parliament Caucus was presided over by the Rt. Hon. Speaker of the National Assembly, Hon. Moses Masika Wetangula. However, Hon. Peter Salasya was attacked by a rival group of young men when he was invited to address the congregation, resulting in a fracas that led to his injuries. He reported the matter at Mumias Police Station, where it was recorded in the OB under entry numbers 23/12/112023, at 2.25 pm.

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He was advised to seek medical attention and complete a P3 form, a copy of which was provided to him. However, despite being invited by the investigating officer, the complainant, Hon. Peter Salasya, is yet to return to provide his statement to the police. As a result, the case remains pending under investigation due to the complainant's failure to record his statement.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, Part (b) of the question is on the status of investigations into violent altercations between rival groups at Bulimbo Primary School in Kholera Ward on 2nd December, 2023. The funeral of the late Hon. Godliver Omondi - may she rest in peace, we served together with her and Sen. Boni Khalwale in this House - a nominated Member of the County Assembly (MCA) of Kakamega County then, was held on 2nd December, 2023 at Bulimbo Primary School grounds.

The event was attended by senior politicians, concluded peacefully at approximately 5.30 p.m. No incidents of violence or injuries reports were made to the police in connection with the event.

Part (c) of the question is on the status of investigations into altercation between Hon. FCPA Fernandez Baraza, OGW, Governor of Kakamega County and Hon. Elsie Muhanda, Women Representative of Kakamega County, on 7th November, 2024. On 6th November, 2024, Hon. Elsie Muhanda took to the podium to address mourners at a funeral in Imalamba, Eregi. However, her remarks reportedly provoked supporters of Governor Baraza, leading to a commotion. A brief altercation ensued between the two groups, prompting police intervention, which swiftly restored order and prevented the destruction of property.

One individual who sustained minor facial injuries reported the incident, which was booked in OB under Reference 08/16/7/224 at Eregi Police Station. Despite police efforts, the injured individual declined to provide a formal statement, and as such, the case remains pending under investigations.

Part (d) of the question is the status of investigations into violent altercations between rival groups in Matungu Constituency, on 8th February, 2025. There was a violent altercation between rival groups at Matungu Constituency on 8th February, 2025 during the burial of the late Chief Agostino Odongo, resulting in numerous injuries and insignificant damage to property.

Mr. Felix Omutala, who was allegedly attacked by a group of four individuals, complained of assault, prompting the Director of Criminal Investigations (DCI) officers from Mumias West to commence investigations. One suspect, Ali Adams Wataku, was arrested and arraigned in court under the file No.925/3025. The other three suspects were still tracked by the police for arrest and subsequent arraignment in court.

Additionally, Inquiry File No.01/2025 was opened at the Kakamega County DCI Headquarters regarding offences committed during the burial. The file has been forwarded to the Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (ODPP) for review and further action.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, in fact, it was as a result of this funeral that I addressed the country on this behaviour of using goons in public functions. The resolution we made in Kakamega during the Jukwaa la Usalama was that the Western region, especially the Kakamega County, needed more attention of DCI officers in apprehending and arresting

Services, Senate. these characters. Considering the efforts we put in place from February, these type of incidences such as the one that happened in Matungu have come down in Kakamega, Mumias area, where public meetings were impossible to contain because of the violent mobilization political leaders engage in. Therefore, this is an issue of great concern to us going to the elections and the DCI and the National Police are prepared to deal decisively on this issue. It is something we are alive to and we continue to monitor.

On disclosure of identity of financials of violent acts and their legal status, due to the sensitive nature of the ongoing investigations, we are currently unable to disclose the names of the suspects to avoid jeopardizing the process. However, intelligence gathering so far has identified key financiers behind these violent acts and investigations to uncover additional suspects have made significant progress.

The Government remains committed to ensuring that all individuals responsible, including financiers and orchestrators of violent incidents, are apprehended and held accountable in accordance with the law. Appropriate legal action will be taken against anyone found culpable once investigations reach a conclusive stage and the legal threshold is met. We assure this House that no individual, regardless of their status, will be shielded from this process of justice. As I said, the file is before the ODPP and the processes are ongoing.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, on Government measures to address rising violence of public functions, firstly, the Government acknowledged the increase in politically motivated violence in public gatherings, particularly in Western Kenya. When I say Western Kenya, it is not the Western region, it is all the way to Nyanza and some parts of Rift Valley.

To address the vice, the following measures have been implemented-

Enhanced security deployment: Security personnel have been strategically positioned at public gatherings to prevent violence and ensure public safety. In addition to uniformed officers, undercover teams are discretely stationed within crowds to gather intelligence, monitor activities and identify individuals inciting unrest.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, we may be doing this, but we do not have enough police officers in this country to be monitoring every public function, funeral and church harambee that happens. It is, therefore, important that we deal with the key perpetrators, in order to stem this rise of criminal activities during public functions.

inciting violence are at an advanced stage. Appropriate legal action will be taken against individuals found guilty of orchestrating such incidents.

community leaders, political parties and law enforcement agencies to promote peaceful coexistence and de-escalate tensions at public events.

Lastly, the Government remains committed to ensuring that the safety of all citizens and holding perpetrators of violence accountable. We continue to work closely with law enforcement agencies, intelligence units and community stakeholders to mitigate politically instigated violence and uphold the rule of law.

I thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Hon. Boni, do you have any supplementary question?

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Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The Cabinet Secretary’s work is well cut out for him. As a former colleague in this House, I believe he wants to succeed and we will support him. However. these incidences took place as far back as 2023. He is telling us that he is still investigating a case where the financer hires school buses, recruits goons and they are carried in these school buses to a function, the goons start the violence, videos are taken, they are arrested and the financer secures their release.

For your information, the financer is the Governor of Kakamega. Why is the Government shielding a criminal who is promoting this violence?

The Cabinet Secretary for Interior and National Administration

: Mr. Speaker, Sir, I made it clear why in some instances, nothing had happened from 2023 and it was because the victims are running away from the case. For example, a Member of Parliament like hon. Salasya is refusing to record his statement. It is not because he does not know the law. He is running away from recording a statement. The DCI cannot again arrest the victim for them to cooperate and they investigate the people. There are challenges there.

Sometimes, political leaders think they are weak if they pursue a case to its conclusion because if they go to a witness stand or the dock and narrate how they were beaten, their constituents might consider them weak. Sometimes, they drop these cases and there is little we can do. However, I agree with hon. Boni Khalwale that our work is cut out and it is unfortunate that leaders, who we expect to assist us to de-escalate acts of violence, are the ones who are organizing their goons and the so-called ‘bouncers’ to public functions, thus making it very difficult.

When we were in the Jukwaa la Usalama in Kakamega, the County Police Commander and the county security team told us that they dread hearing there is a high- profile funeral of a senior person, like the one in Matungu of the chief, because they know that weekend will be difficult in terms of deploying many officers to one function.

We agreed, therefore, that it is important for us, leaders, to de-escalate this behaviour. However, I have no evidence here before this House, that hon. Barasa was involved in any way. The DCI informed me that the investigations are still ongoing and we will stand with that.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, when hon. Khalwale mentions the name of his Governor, you must take it with a pinch of salt because, just like his Governor, hon. Boni Khalwale is also fighting to be the Governor for Kakamega County. We, therefore, take his statement with a pinch of salt.

Senator for Meru, you may proceed to ask Question No.072.

Question No. 072

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I beg to ask the Cabinet Secretary for Interior and National following question.

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in Igembe North, Igembe Central, Tigania East, Tigania West and Buuri Constituencies in Meru County, despite the Government's repeated assurances of enhanced intervention efforts?

the Cabinet Secretary provide details on the nature and extent of support accorded to affected families to help reconstruct their destroyed homes and where stolen cattle have not been recovered, to help restore their livelihoods?

affected region, similar to the multi-agency security operation dubbed Operation Maliza Uhalifu, which was deployed in the North Rift region in 2023?

security operating bases in the affected region to deter such criminal activities?

Hon. Cabinet Secretary, you may proceed. Now, that your written response has been circulated to all Senators, you may wish to paraphrase it in the interest of time.

The Cabinet Secretary for Interior and National Administration

: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, in September 2024, a multi- agency security operation was launched in the region after several strategic meetings. This has led to more coordinated and targeted operations across the affected sub-counties, hence, a significant decline in cases of banditry and cattle rustling in the Meru North grazing zone. While notable progress has been achieved, some operational and logistical challenges persist, hence impeding the timely realisation of intended security outcome.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the other issues is rugged terrains and inaccessible hideouts. The region’s harsh topography, rugged terrain and certain hideouts are unreachable by vehicles providing bandits secure sanctuaries beyond the reach of security forces, particularly Mukogodo Forest. The Hon. Senator understands when I say this because it is in the Samburu East and Laikipia North areas.

We also have dense vegetation and forest areas, poor communication network coverage and late return of herders. There are more details there. I am just paraphrasing as you have directed. There is late return of herders from grazing fields and internal bandit coordination networks.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, allow me to say this for the benefit of the Hon. Senator. After carrying out investigations on the instances where people have been apprehended, we established that no raid can happen in Meru without a Meru coordinator of the bandits.

The same happens in the fight between Pokots and Marakwets. No Pokot would go to Marakwet without the support of Marakwets. There will always be some Marakwets coordinating the Pokot bandits from the other side. Bandits do not just go to Meru. They are always coordinated by people in Meru and that is part of the challenge. Some of those people have been arrested and dealt with.

The other challenge is complicity by herders through delayed reporting. I want the Hon. Senator to know that the owners of the livestock in that part of Meru are not there. The herders do report about the incidents two or three days later. We also have cases of herders herding in isolation. There was an agreement that they need to herd in organised

Services, Senate. groups for us to protect the people from that area. Those are some of the challenges that we face in this in this corner.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, on part two, a multi-agency team is executing Operation Maliza Uhalifu, which is a security initiative aimed at flashing out bandits and dismantling criminal networks. The multi-agency security team has been able to conduct intensified patrols, surveillance and quick reaction within the Meru northern grazing zone, which have resulted in successful recovery of stolen livestock, as outlined below.

I will just mention a few incidents of that. In August, 2024, 41 heads of cattle were recovered. On 14th August, 2024, 40 heads of cattle were recovered. On 4th April, 2025, 87 goats were recovered and the areas are listed there. On 7th April, 2025, 87 heads of cattle, 23 goats and 6 donkeys which had been stolen were recovered. The recovery of all the incidents that I have read was at 100 per cent.

On 13th April, 2025, bandits raided a place in Amaiya Ntala area in Mutuati and stole 120 heads of cattle. All those animals were recovered. On 23rd April, 2025, 23 heads of cattle were stolen at Rwanga and 11 heads of cattle were recovered. The remaining 12 are still being sought.

A question was asked on whether the Government will consider undertaking security operations. My response is that the Government has launched a coordinated multi-agency security operations with a code name, Operation Furusha Wezi Wa Mifugo, targeting Meru and Isiolo counties. The operation is specifically designed to combat banditry and livestock theft across northern grazing zones of Meru and the adjacent areas of Isiolo.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the multi-agency security team is comprised of six operational sector officers drawn from Kenya National Police Service, Administration Police Service, General Service Unit, Anti-Stock Theft Unit, Rapid Deployment Unit, Special Operations Group, National Police Reservists (NPR), Directorate of Criminal Investigations, Crime Research and Intelligence Bureau, among others.

The other question was on whether the Government could consider establishing multi-disciplinary security operation bases. My response is that the Government has established a fully operational security base hosting personnel including the ones I listed above. As part of the ongoing strategic efforts, there are plans to realign existing security camps to key entry and exit routes of frequent use by bandits across the Meru north grazing zones.

The realignment is intended to enhance mobility, surveillance and rapid response capability to criminal incidents. Additionally, there is a plan to recruit new NPR personnel from Kiwanja, Epinding and Maili Saba areas, which are identified as corridors of banditry activities. We want to enhance NPR in areas where the Turkana community live.

The deployment of 21 county rangers sponsored by the County Government of Meru is also under consideration. These rangers will serve as first response to livestock theft incidents operating in coordination with multi-agency security team for rapid support. These rangers are taking care of the conservancies. This proposal is currently under review by the county security and intelligence committee for further deliberation and guidance.

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Further, there is a proposal to establish a multi-agency security operation base at Ndumuru Police Station in Igembe North Sub-County. The station's strategic location along non-bandit transit routes linking Meru and Isiolo counties make it an ideal hub for coordinated operation and regional security mobilization.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the problem is at the source, which is in Samburu County, parts of Laikipia and Isiolo, but Samburu East is our biggest challenge. In the statement I made earlier as a summary, I indicated that infrastructure development is extremely important in opening up these very critical hideouts, where these criminals hide in Samburu East and Mukogodo Forest in Laikipia North. The National Security Council directed the Ministry of Roads and Transport to work with the Ministry of Interior and National Administration. They are to set aside resources to open up this area for it to be accessible for security operations.

I thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Senator for Meru County, do you have any supplementary questions?

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I want to thank the Cabinet Secretary (CS) , though some of the statistics that he has given me are not satisfactory. He has said that Meru men and women collaborate with the bandits, but that has not been documented. As far as I am concerned, we have not received any comprehensive report to show that Merus are collaborating with the bandits. If there are cases of such, he should provide this House with that data. That will help us, as a community. That information has not been documented, neither has it been released by the security.

He has also said that there is late reporting of cattle and livestock theft. These people raid our homesteads and not the grazing areas because there is nothing to steal from the grazing areas. They took all the cattle from the grazing areas. Right now, they come to the markets and even steal goats from the sheds that are in the homesteads. So, it is not a matter of reporting. Reporting is actually done instantly to the security forces.

Now that the CS is here, can he kindly help the people Buuri East and Buuri West? That is where all the criminals have moved to. They are also in Maili Saba and Glendale Forest. The county government is trying to do something, but it will help if he can add more police officers in that belt.

Sometimes, those people pass next to the police stations, but the policemen just keep quiet and watch the bandits take away our livestock and goods because they are very few in the stations. They do not respond because there are probably three or four in the police posts. When they attempt to respond, you know the consequences. You can imagine three men against more than 20 raiders. So, it will be appropriate if you can assist us on that level.

I also request him to visit the Maili Saba area, especially Buuri areas, for those residents to tell him how they have really suffered. I was there two weeks ago. I request you visit that area to maybe talk to that community and also guide them on what they need to do.

Thank you.

Sen. Dullo, proceed.

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Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Waziri, thank you very much for your presentation. I remember the Standing Committee on National Security, Defence and Foreign Relations was to visit Isiolo, Meru, Samburu, and Marsabit. These are areas seriously affected by cattle rustling.

I know many people have been killed recently in those areas, which contain several hotspots. Is it possible for the Government to enhance security, specifically in the locations where attacks usually occur or where criminals launch raids? It is important that we come together to see how we can iron out these issues, as they are greatly affecting the four counties.

I thank you.

Sen. Mo Fire.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I happen to suffer the same fate in Tharaka Constituency, especially the lower part of Tharaka. We had made requests to the Cabinet Secretary for Interior and National Administration to have people recruited as Kenya Police Reserve (KPR) , to reinforce the existing security apparatus.

Could the Cabinet Secretary guide this House whether there is any arrangement or intention to recruit KPR, to enhance security and reinforce the existing systems in the area? In Tharaka, we have similar situations where bandits strike, use the Meru National Park as a hideout---

Sen. Mo Fire, you have asked your question. Allow the Cabinet Secretary to respond.

Sen. (Dr.) Lelegwe, proceed.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Time and again, the Cabinet Secretary for Interior and National Administration has reported to this House and in public that one of the reasons they are not recovering livestock or maintaining security in the affected areas is because of the terrain.

As leaders from the affected region, we met the Cabinet Secretary several times, even during the last financial year. They promised that resources would be set aside to address the terrain challenges they cited. Even during public barazas held across the North Rift and other affected regions, residents have raised concerns that the lack of security is due to terrain.

I have heard from the Cabinet Secretary, again today, that they are working in collaboration with the Ministry of Road and Transport. I am not sure whether these resources are available, considering the Cabinet Secretary had promised last financial year to allocate funds to address terrain challenges in the North Rift region.

I thank you.

Proceed to respond. The Cabinet Secretary for Interior and National Administration

: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. First, I agree with the Senator for Meru County, the Hon. Deputy Speaker, on the challenges around Ngare Ndare Forest and other areas like Buuri, where we face many issues and hotspots.

When we say that people are not reporting, we do not mean in all incidents. I gave it as a raft of reasons. One reason these challenges persist is that, in some cases, the

Services, Senate. incidents are not reported. We have instances where stolen livestock is reported two or three days later.

This issue was discussed even in public barazas before I came to office. Communities agreed to graze together and ensure someone is taking care of the livestock. Previously, before banditry, livestock did not need constant supervision. You would take them to the grazing field and pick them up in the evening. However, with banditry, the challenges persist.

On the question of whether there are collaborators from the Meru side, of course, there are. I am from the Marakwet side and when I sat where the Deputy Speaker now sits, I was told by security officers that some Marakwets were assisting Pokots in stealing livestock from Marakwets. I used to deny it, just as the Senator will do so. However, with the information I have now, I know that many Marakwets are assisting Pokot bandits in stealing livestock.

Once we, as the security sector, decided to treat bandits as bandits, we saw greater collaboration from both communities. Recently, when most Marakwet bandits surrendered, they were the first to do so, they helped us call their friends on the other side and encouraged them to surrender. That there is no longer a network of intelligence. Bandits also have their own intelligence networks.

I encourage the Senator not to defend them. Some have already been dealt with and others are still being monitored. They even get paid. Once livestock is stolen, money is sent back to their collaborators in the community who assisted them.

This is not confined to Meru. Banditry is an organised crime. It has collaborators on both sides. It has police officers who assist. We have even established that some security officers sell bullets. There are business people who buy stolen cows at throwaway prices. So, it is not something to be defended, but dealt with.

Our plan is to implement a targeted security operation in this area, similar to what has already happened at the border of Baringo, Elgeyo-Marakwet and West Pokot. Once that happens, you will realise that even those claiming their livestock has been stolen will cry louder because they will quickly discover that criminals are in their midst, just as we saw in other parts of the North Rift. That operation is ongoing.

The Security Council has given a directive to seek resources. We are working with the National Treasury to secure funding for a more targeted operation in that area. I am very confident, based on what we did at the border of Marakwet, West Pokot and Baringo that with greater targeted security operations, we will recover more guns. We have already recovered 600 guns in that relatively small area. In the Meru, Isiolo and Samburu area, I have a lot of confidence.

When we assessed the resource requirements, as Sen. Lelegwe raised, the need to open up these Samburu areas is massive. There has to be a Marshall Plan. Banditry will not be solved by merely looking for guns and arresting people. Development is key, whether it is roads, water, electricity or education. That is what is bedevilling parts of Turkana, Samburu, Baringo, West Pokot, Isiolo and other places of Laikipia Counties.

As a result, certain roads have already been identified. The Senator knows that the road from Maralal to Baragoi is scheduled for delivery in this financial year. There are

Services, Senate. about six or seven key roads in that belt. We need massive resources, approximately Kshs3 billion or Kshs4 billion, to open up those roads, even without tarmacking them.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the challenge is budgetary allocation. You saw in my summary that we are working on it and I am happy about that. At least, I have suggested that we build one road to Mukogodo Forest, which will address one of the problems. Another road to Malaso, then to Baragoi and another in Tiaty Constituency between areas of Silale. That will mark great progress in this region. The President is actively working to secure the relevant resources through consultation between ministries.

I agree to visit the place in Buuri. The Inspector General of the National Police Service was there a few months ago and the Deputy Inspector General also visited recently. I will also visit that particular area.

On the increase of KPR, I agree with Sen. Mo Fire. We will definitely go and sit down and work on it. In the Jukwaa La Usalama, the discussion was that National Police Reservists (NPR) are good, but they are also part of the problem. In parts of Turkana and West Pokot now, where there is a problem in Kainuk, we have established that some of the NPRs are collaborating with their own communities and criminals from their communities to perpetuate these crimes.

That was the case also in Marakwet side and Pokot side. So, the policy proposal was to reorganise NPR to make sure that the command structure is very clear, that the Officer Commanding Station (OCS) is in charge of all the NPRs in terms of their deployment, have sight of where they are and what they do. That is really what has helped in some parts of the country, including in Marsabit and other places.

Therefore, in this area of Meru, sometimes you give the NPR, but because they are not working closely with the police, then we lose a number of NPRs, the way we have lost them in the last few months in that area. So, that is being done with the Inspector General (IG) of Police and the National Police Service. In two weeks, we will launch that Jukwaa La Usalama report and it will have the policy already completed with the clarity on how that command structure will be.

We have issues of payment, recruitment and training. We want to decentralise the training, so that when you recruit from a particular region, we have established a training area, so that we do not have to bring all NPRs. The NPRs are about a million across the country. They are about 700,000. No, sorry, I have exaggerated. They are 7,000 across the country. So, it is an issue that we must deal with accordingly.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, lastly, on KPR, forest resources, and so forth, I have responded to majorly most of the questions that have been raised.

Sorry?

Hon. Cabinet Secretary, take your seat. We will now move to Question Number 044.

What clarification are you seeking?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is not clear from the Cabinet Secretary. This insecurity is promoted by politicians. We know of a politician in Baringo and a

Services, Senate. politician in West Pokot. In fact, his helicopter air lifted cattle rustlers when they had been arraigned in court in Kitale. So, it is not enough for him just to say, ‘pinch of salt’ because we are competing. What are you doing about them? If you want, allow me to state the names of the MPs from West Pokot and Baringo. Our people are being killed by these politicians in the name of cattle rustling.

What is your question, Hon. Khalwale?

The question is, what is he doing about politicians who are promoting this insecurity; one from Baringo and another one from West Pokot?

The Cabinet Secretary for Interior and National Administration

: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Banditry is not confined to Pokot Community, West Pokot and Baringo or MPs who are from Pokot. It is a problem everywhere. There are collaborators in Isiolo, Samburu, Laikipia, Elgeyo Marakwet, Baringo, West Pokot and Turkana. So, to profile any community or any leaders from one community is wrong.

Number two, and you will get to know this when, as soon as you engage in security issues, you realise that sometimes the MP has come to defend certain people, pick them and even pay fine for them. However, you may never find the MP directly buying the bullets, inciting and so forth. So, what does the security team do? They go for the people who have done it. If the MP used Mr. X to buy bullets, you go for the Mr. X who has bought bullets and deal with that one. If he has used the so-and-so to do criminal activities, you go for them.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have sat in this House and sometimes politicians mistakenly think that they are defending their community. They find themselves defending criminals. So, if the police officers try following elected leaders for the sake of it without going specifically where the evidence is, you end up politicising the process. Our concern is that, go for the evidence and go for the perpetrator regardless of their position.

The other thing we say is that politicians are not only the ones who are elected. It also includes those who are aspiring to be elected and those who are just political opinion leaders in particular areas. This has been dealt with across the communities.

Therefore, while I agree with Sen. Boni Khalwale, that sometimes there are cases where political leaders are involved in inciting communities or financing and supporting banditry, it is not true that it is confined to one community. It is not true that we deal with it from a political perspective. We deal with it from evidence leading to the suspect.

I thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Proceed, Senator for Nairobi City County. Question No.040

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. Mine is, the first one is Question No.40. Unfortunately, you will note that this question is from 4th of March, 2025.

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The reason it is being brought to the Floor nine months later is that we have been unable to secure the attendance of the Cabinet Secretary; no wonder he has 21 questions to respond to, but I will proceed.

country to Nairobi County for the National Police Service Promotion Board interviews are never facilitated with transport and accommodation despite the interviews being part of the official duties?

the results of the National Police Service Promotion Board interviews conducted in Nairobi between the 10th and 14th of February, 2025?

interviews held in February, 2025? Could the Cabinet Secretary state all the measures taken to ensure fairness in the process?

I thank you, Hon. Speaker.

Proceed, Hon. Cabinet Secretary. The Cabinet Secretary for Interior and National Administration

: Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I agree with Sen. Sifuna that we have been unable to answer these questions, but it was not by desire. The last time I appeared before this House to answer the questions, there was a matter of great concern at that particular time and we spent the whole day here in this Senate Chamber. We could not go to these questions.

The second time, there were some unfortunate security incidences that happened, recess and so forth. So, it was not because of not my liking to come here. I really like coming here, just that sometimes this is like the job’s headquarters. At times, you are sitting in the office and then something happens.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, on question one, let me not read the questions again to save time. Promotion board interviews are considered official duty and as such, officers attending these interviews are entitled to per diem allowances and transport facilitation. These are to be provided through their immediate supervisors, who are the designated holders of authority to incur expenditure, otherwise famously known as AIE in short.

However, the disbursement of AIEs to field commanders has occasionally experienced delays, resulting in the late payment of allowances to officers. Moreover, some police stations currently lack serviceable motor vehicles, which has further complicated the facilitation of transport. As a result, many officers have been compelled to make personal transport arrangements to attend these important career advancement opportunities.

To address these persistent challenges, the Ministry is actively engaging with the National Treasury to streamline and prioritise the disbursement of Exchequer, to ensure

Services, Senate. that all operational and welfare-related financial obligations are met in a timely and predictable manner.

Additionally, the Ministry in collaboration with the National Police leadership has initiated a fleet improvement plan aimed at progressively equipping stations and posts with functional transport assets. These reforms are aligned with the recommendations of the 2023/2024 Police Reform and Prison Service Reform Task Force, which called for enhanced logistical support, decentralisation of operational resources and a robust welfare framework for all the officers.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, as a matter of fact, everywhere I went through Jukwaa La Usalama, AIE is a matter of concern. Resource disbursement to the various police stations, so that they can have money to facilitate the officers when they come for this, is a matter of great concern. However, in addition to what I have said, the officers will claim this transport in the fullness of time because they are entitled to. As long as the resources are availed, they will be paid in due course.

Another question was about reasons for the delay in releasing of results of the NPS interviews conducted in Nairobi between 10th and 14th November, 2024.

Promotions by the NPS begin with identification and allocation of vacancies across various ranks of the NPS at the National Police Service Headquarters. Following that, the Inspector General (IG) of Police instructs respective services to convene promotion boards and submit lists of successful candidates.

The interview process is structured into five progressive levels designed to ensure transparency, fairness and distribution of opportunities down to the lowest police units. Upon conclusion of each level, candidates are interviewed and ranked. Those who attain the highest scores are notified to proceed to the next level, while others are encouraged to reapply in future exercises.

Only the final list of successful candidates who are not required to undergo further interviews is submitted to the IG based on merit and performance. This multi-tier process may result in perceived delays, but it is necessary to uphold meritocracy and fairness in full compliance with Chapter 34 of the National Police Service Standing Orders.

The Ministry wishes to assure the House that promotional interviews held on February, 2025 were concluded in strict compliance with the policies and guidelines outlined in Chapter 34 of the National Police Service Standing Orders. The process incorporated key selection criteria, including ethnic and regional balance, affirmative action, individual performance and appraisal records, length of service, successful completion of police law examination and promotion courses and maintenance of a clean and satisfactory disciplinary record. These measures were implemented to ensure inclusivity, meritocracy and fairness in the allocation of the available promotion slots.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the welfare, morale and career progression of officers remain a priority in the Ministry of Interior and National Administration. We shall continue to take necessary steps to ensure that promotion processes are not only fair and inclusive, but also timely and well supported.

I submit.

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Sen. Sifuna, do you have any supplementary question?

Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. You will realise that the response that the Cabinet Secretary has read is from April, 2025, but we are now in November. My expectation would be that he gives us the current status.

For instance, Cabinet Secretary, have the reimbursements been paid to the officers who attended interviews in February using their own resources? Has the report on those interviews been released? Those are how many months down the line from April up to now? It is almost seven months.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, that is the expectation that we have today. He should not just read what he sent us in April. Let him tell us whether the results of the interviews are out, whether the officers have been reimbursed for the expenses they incurred, and whether there are any pending payments.

Lastly, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, on ethnic composition, it will be nice if the Cabinet Secretary gives this House a breakdown of the ethnic makeup of the upper echelons of the police force.

I thank you.

Cabinet Secretary, perhaps you should give that clarification.

The Cabinet Secretary for Interior and National Administration

: Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, concerning promotions, that was done and officers are already--- For the lower ranks of police officers like corporals and serjeants, they completed the training. Therefore, they have already been promoted. All of them undertake promotional courses. Those at higher ranks are still in various training centres undergoing the training.

I think we did not provide it in the response. It is important for the Senator to note that it was not everywhere that AIEs were not facilitated because it was based on the budget of every police station. Therefore, it was not general. I will need to engage the NPS to confirm if after finishing their courses and reporting to new stations upon promotion and getting higher salaries, whether it is accompanied by their transport allowance.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, on the issue of composition of high ranking police officers, that is straightforward and the information is available to the public. Perhaps I will share the composition from commissioners going up to show people occupying those positions across the country. That is public knowledge, but we can submit it as a supplementary statement later.

I thank you.

Hon. Senators, if we go by this list on my dashboard, it will take a lot of time. I am constrained to ask Sen. Sifuna to ask his second question, unless it is on the issue of interviews and promotion.

Yes, Sen. Mandago.

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Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, my supplementary question to the Cabinet Secretary is this: Is it true that there are officers who have been promoted on merit two ranks within six months? Is it also true that there are ranks beyond which an officer should not be promoted even on merit, but that is happening?

Please, repeat.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, my question to the Cabinet Secretary is this: Is it true that there are officers within the ranks who have been promoted on merit twice within six months? I would also like to know whether senior officers have been promoted to ranks that ordinarily you cannot be promoted even on merit.

Just a minute, Cabinet Secretary. Let us get two more.

Proceed, Sen. Gataya Mo Fire.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to know whether there is any promotion policy in the NPS. You will find that somebody just joined the police force and tomorrow, he is an inspector. However, there is somebody who has been mark timing there for the past 10 years without promotion. Do you have any policy to guide on promotion of police officers?

There is a lot of discontent within the force that, perhaps, there are people who cling on corruption and political brokers here and there to get promotions.

You have asked your question. The Cabinet Secretary should also know that you are a former police officer.

Maybe he did not get the promotion then. Hon. Cabinet Secretary, please, answer those three questions, so that we make progress.

The Cabinet Secretary for Interior and National Administration

: Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, will I be in order to request Sen. Mo Fire to disclose the rank he retired at and how he ended up being there? That is on a light note.

On the issue of promotion, I agree with Sen. Mo Fire. Before I answer Sen. Mandago’s question, during the Jukwaa la Usalama, these issues were raised by police officers directly. That included Officers Commanding Stations (OCSs) and other officers who were in the forums. There was a concern that it takes even 30 years without some people being promoted. For others, it takes six or seven years before they are promoted. Therefore, the NPS requires a promotion policy.

The recommendation of the Jukwaa la Usalama Report is that there needs to be clarity on the promotion policy. People should know that if they attain a certain number of years, but they do not have in their files any criminal record and they are diligent in their work, then there should be motivation by ensuring that there is clarity on exactly how they get promoted.

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The issue that Sen. Mandago raised also came up during the discussion. That is; can you allow people at certain ranks to be promoted without going through training? That mostly affects your bodyguards and other officers.

This is what happens. Sometimes you come and lobby and say that you have been having those bodyguards for many years, which is right because you are making a case for the persons working with you. You then ask us to promote them. When we tell you that they will be promoted, but they need to go for training, you ask us whether they can get it by merit.

One day when you are no longer a Governor or Member of Parliament (MP) and they are at a rank of Chief Inspector, they are supposed to go and run a police station, but they have no experience because they have not been trained on how to run a police station. Therefore, they cannot be even OCSs because they were helping and supporting you as State Officers.

The report indicated that there should be a rank within which a person cannot be promoted without going for training. Starting with the ones who were promoted recently, a good number of them were promoted on merit because merit is allowed. Those who were promoted on merit were told that they must go for training because they are progressing to certain ranks.

In terms of what Sen. Mo Fire raised, a policy must be in place. It should either be infused in the Standing Orders or we need to have a standalone policy on promotions and transfers like I mentioned in my opening statement.

I am not aware of specific cases that Sen. Mandago raised where someone has been promoted beyond two ranks in six months.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Let us move on to the next Question, Sen. Sifuna.

Question No.110

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. The next question is from friends of mine in Kibera and across the country, the Nubian Community.

Hon. Waziri, please respond.

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The Cabinet Secretary for Interior and National Administration (Hon. Kipchumba Murkomen): Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Government, through the Directorate of National Registration Bureau, assigns a unique ethnic identification code to Kenyan communities. These codes enable individuals to declare their ethnicity when they register for national IDs as required under Section 5(1)(d) of the Registration of Persons Act.

The recognition and coding of ethnic communities is a continuous and progressive process. At the inception of the Manual First Generation National Identity Card System in 1978, individuals were required to declare their ethnicity on registration forms. This information was recorded in the manual register, but did not appear on the physical ID card.

In 1995, with the introduction of the second-generation ID and the automated Kenya Identity Management System, it became necessary to create specific ethnic codes to capture the ethnic data electronically. Each ethnic community was assigned a unique code, while a generic code “other Kenyans” was provided for individuals whose communities were not yet listed among ethnic groups in the system.

The Nubian Community was initially registered under the generic code 81 which is, other Kenyans. No member of the Nubian Community has ever been denied registration over the lack of a communal code.

Over time, the Ministry has progressively reviewed and updated ethnic codes for additional communities, including sub-tribes that have a certain distinct ethnic identity separate from larger linguistic or cultural groups. As part of this ongoing process, the Nubian Community was officially assigned a distinct ethnic code No. 50 in 2022. They are thereby recognised them as a Kenyan ethnic community within the national registration framework.

Part two; I am not aware that members of the Nubian Community continue to face barriers in acquiring national IDs. Indeed, His Excellency the President on 5th February, 2025, directed the discontinuation of additional vetting requirements that had been applied during the registration and issuance of national IDs to ascertain communities and individuals residing in specific regions of the country. The Nubian Community was among the groups positively affected by this directive.

Prior to this Presidential Directive, members of the Nubian Community were subjected to a special vetting process that had been developed in consultation between the Ministry and the Nubian Community elders. These vetting mechanisms required attestation of ID applicants by Nubian elders. The purpose of this arrangement was to help between Kenyan Nubians whose forebears settled in the country before independence and migrant Nubians who continue to migrate to Kenya. Following the directive of His Excellency the President, this community-based vetting process was officially discontinued and the Nubian Community is now fully integrated into the standard national registration framework.

Currently, the registration and issuance of national ID documents across the country, including members of the Nubian Community is conducted under the new uniform mechanism launched by the President to streamline and standardise the process nationwide.

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Under this mechanism, the identity of an applicant is authenticated by the present or guardian biological relatives through the embossing of the left thumbprint on the registration form. This is further validated by the thumbprint of the chief or assistant chief ensuring local administration oversight. This standardised procedure apply uniformly in the registration thereby ensuring equality, fairness and the elimination of any form of discrimination in access to national ID documents.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, members of the Nubian Community have been registered and issued with national ID documents since the introduction of the first generation ID in 1978. While it is true that the Nubian Community was initially categorised under the generic ethnic code “other Kenyans”, code 81, this does not in any way prevent members of the Community from acquiring ID documents.

Furthermore, the subsequent assignment of code No.50 has reaffirmed their status as a duly recognised Kenyan ethnic community. With regard to the vetting process that was previously applied to members of the Nubian Community, it is important to clarify that the vetting was not unique to the Nubian Community. It was also applied to residents of all border counties and to communities living both in Kenya and across the country’s porous and international borders.

The purpose of this process was not to discriminate; rather, it was an ID verification mechanism designed to ensure that national ID documents were issued exclusively to bona fide Kenyan citizens. It is with the sovereign responsibility of any state to institute appropriate measures to differentiate its citizens from non-citizens, particularly concerning cross border movement and settlement patterns.

Given these facts, it could not be accurate to claim that members of the Nubian Community have been denied recognition as Kenyan citizens. The Government has taken deliberate measures, including the abolition of the extra vetting requirements and the standardisation of national registration process to ensure that all citizens including, the Nubian Community, enjoy equal treatment and access to identification and citizenship services.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Government remains fully committed to promoting inclusion, equity and fairness for all communities in Kenya through ongoing reforms in national registration and ID management process. The Ministry continues to work collaboratively with relevant agencies to address and prevent any form of perceived historical marginalisation.

I thank you.

Hon. Senators, I think we can do better in time management. For example, this question is specific for Nubians and Nubians are domiciled in Nairobi.

So, the Cabinet Secretary has given the response to the question raised by the Senator. At least, the Senator should be affirming to us whether he is satisfied or not and whether he has a supplementary question. This is so that we avoid a repeat of the Cabinet Secretary reading the whole response from A to Z.

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Sen. Sifuna, let me hear from you whether you are satisfied with the response or you have a supplementary question.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I read this response and I was not satisfied. However, I started first by correcting you that the Nubian Community is spread across the country. In fact, part of the question was in discrimination on identity card issuance. We were told that vetting had been removed, yet in Kisii County, the reports are that they are still going through that.

The communication that I received from the Cabinet Secretary is unsatisfactory for the following reason; first of all, it is not clear whether there is a formal recognition through something such as a gazette notice or a communication. You can see that the response he has given has no annexure at all.

In 2016, when we were recognising the Makonde Community, there was a full ceremony. What the Nubian Community is saying is that, if you have issued a code, you have done it silently. Do we have any documents such as a gazette notice or a formal ceremony? Does the issuance of a code now recognise them as the 50th community in Kenya? Those are the reasons why we are saying that this is not a satisfactory response, let him add those specific details.

Lastly, on the question of land; there was a court ruling in 2015 that required the restitution of the remaining 3,000 acres of land or appropriate preparations to the community to be made. The Cabinet Secretary has not addressed himself to that question of land restitution.

Let him provide those two clarifications; will we see a gazette notice? Will there be a form response? Is there any formal document saying that they have been recognised or is it just the Cabinet Secretary’s word of mouth that constitutes them as the 50th community in the country?

Thank you.

Any other Member with a supplementary question to this one? Sen. Maanzo?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, could the Cabinet Secretary indicate the order followed to recognise communities because it happens after a community has come out fighting? Could he explain whether they have a programme, so that we know other than the Nubian Community, which other community is likely to be gazetted officially? We still have unrecognised communities in Kenya. How many are they in total, the ones recognised and the ones yet to be recognised? It has been happening from the Shona and the other communities once in a while get recognised.

Do you know of one that has not been recognised, so that we start from there?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we have quite a number, but I would like to be informed.

Sen. Mohamed Faki.

Bw. Naibu wa Spika, ni ukweli masuala ya makabila kutambuliwa ni jambo liko hadhiri. Kule kwetu Pwani, kuna kabila la Wangazija. Originally, they are from the Comoros, but they have been settled here for many years. I brought a statement

Services, Senate. this year and I do not know whether Sen. Chute has worked on that. Wangazija ni baadhi ya makabila hayajatambuliwa katika nchi yetu.

Sen. Faki, you cannot be changing languages the way you want. Just stick to one language.

Samahani, Bw. Naibu Spika. Kabila la Wangazija wako katika makabila ya Waswahili. Ni moja ya yale ambao hawajatambuliwa katika Jamhuri yetu ya Kenya. Juzi nilileta Taarifa hapa Bunge letu na Kamati ya Uwiano na Umoja wa Taifa inashugulikia suala hilo.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, with your kind permission, I was the one on the Floor. That is the tribe I was forgetting, but I am aware that they are a number. I am sure Hon. Murkomen knows so that he can tell us from Wangazija, how many more are there.

Sen. Boni?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we must collectively congratulate the Government for the decision to make it easier for the Somali and other border communities to move away from being discriminated. However, this is the time the Cabinet Secretary must tell the country what security layer has been put to ensure that potential terrorists who have used these borders before and visited a lot of violence to Kenya do not abuse this directive?

Answer those supplementary questions for us to make progress.

The Cabinet Secretary for Interior and National Administration

: Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like Sen. Sifuna to listen to this.

Sen. Sifuna, we are requesting for your attention.

The Cabinet Secretary for Interior and National Administration

: I believe Sen. Sifuna is confusing the recognition of a stand- alone community with citizenship. The reason why ceremonies were done for the Shona, Pemba and the Makonde communities is because they were gaining citizenship. The Nubians were not gaining citizenship, but they were being recognised as a stand-alone tribe in Kenya. That has happened in many communities and it is on-going.

Right now, I have an application in my office from the Maara Community in Tharaka Nithi. They want to be recognised independently as a stand-alone from the Nithi community. It goes through a process of vetting, consultations, public participation and others.

For the Nubians, as I read in the statement, they were already Kenyans and were recognised under code 81 until 2022 when they were given their stand-alone code which was done way before the election. This was done by the previous administration. I believe that was Sen. Sifuna’s concern

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On the question of land, that is beyond my jurisdiction unless I go about it in terms of settling them in a certain area. That issue involves the Ministry of Lands, Public Works, Housing and Urban Development. We need to also continue interrogating it. If the question was to come to us as a security component, we would then deal with it.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, that applies to all the supplementary questions, including the one from the Senators for Makueni and Mombasa because they are related to citizenship. We go through application processes. There is also one from Bali from Taita Taveta that is under consideration and it will be processed accordingly. We also have a secretariat that deals with minority groups. It identifies them after they have asked to be identified independently of others.

Sen. Sifuna has also said that in Kisii, Nubians are still being denied identity documents on account of not being citizens. We need to separate that there are Kenyan Nubians and Nubians still coming from other countries like Sudan and Uganda. If you do not meet the criteria of Kenyan citizenship, you will be denied citizenship. Just like the way we have the Maasai from Tanzania and Kenya. Not every Maasai will be given an ID or a Samia from Uganda. There are also Sabaots and Pokots from Uganda and others in Kenya. You have to go through certain processes.

Sen. (Dr. ) Khalwale has raised the issue of security with the removal of extra vetting requirements for citizenship. I know where he is going by using the Somali example. It was not a Somali thing, but a Kenyan thing. That is why we talked about the Nubians in the City of Nairobi and other parts of Kenya.

During the Jukwaa la Usalama, I realised that the people of Kwale, Kajiado, Narok, Migori, Busia, some parts of Kakamega, Bungoma, Trans Nzoia, West Pokot, Turkana, Marsabit and the North Eastern counties of Wajir, Mandera, Garissa, Lamu and Tana River were facing the same problem. It is not confined to one community. In fact, the Pokots are as aggrieved as the people in Lamu. The vetting process and security concerns apply all over.

There is also this misguided feeling in the media and political space that the communities in North Eastern are homogenous are, therefore, they would allow a foreigner to come and be part and parcel of the Kenyan community. It stems from the fact that few people have visited those areas. There are hardly two or three people here who have been there.

Maybe, Sen. Mo Fire in his previous assignment may have worked there, but there are hardly five people here who have spent a week in North Eastern, including me. The longest I have done is four days. Sometimes, people do not appreciate the understanding of the place in the first place. Therefore, their failure to understand is fuelled by propaganda. The truth is that, just the same way people from other border counties in Kajiado would not allow a person from Tanzania because they speak the same language to come and take over their land or become part and parcel of their population, is the same way in Wajir and other parts of the country.

This ethnic profiling of one community should come to an end. People should also appreciate the vetting process which was extra is unconstitutional.

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The Constitution says all Kenyans must be treated equally. A person in Isebania border in Migori who is being denied documents because their town borders Tanzania deserves equal treatment with the person in Turkana and the one in Wajir.

I thank you Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Now, let us move on to the next Question No.049 by Sen. Shakila Abadalla. She has one simple Question.

Question No.049

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I beg to ask the Cabinet Secretary for Interior and National Administration the following Question.

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working to neutralise existing threats and efforts around the way to restore security with the ultimate goal for recommending a lifting of the ban once the area is deemed safe.

The following measures have been taken to enhance security in the area-

security presence.

(ii) Complementation of counter violent extremism strategies to prevent radicalization and promote long-term safety.

(iii) Intelligence sharing among security agencies has also been improved to enhance the effectiveness of counter-terrorism operations.

(iv) Community policing is being promoted as a key tool to strengthen collaboration between security agencies and the public.

order to facilitate timely and proactive responses to emerging security threats.

I thank you Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Do you have any supplementary question?

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I thank waziri for his response. As you are aware, this ban has been there for the last 11 years. We know security is important and is a very serious issue. We also know that there are areas in this country which are neighbouring the borders and have more serious security issues than Lamu yet no bans have been put in those counties.

My question to Bw. Waziri is; if he has put the measures that he has narrated here, then what more is left for him to do that has not been done in the last in 11 years? What is it that needs to be done for this ban to be lifted? What I need from Bw. Waziri is the timeline of whatever he is doing. When will it be done and completed for this ban to be lifted? This ban has been there for the last 11 years and it is affecting us economically in many different ways. We cannot even have tourism activities in our region because of this ban.

The measures he has narrated here are good enough. So, what more needs to be done? We, Kenyans, are suffering. It is like we have been in a curfew for the last 11 years. We cannot move. No other part of this country is suffering the way Lamu is suffering. This is not fair. We have not been able to move for the last 11 years. We need answers. We are tired and it is enough.

Do we have any other supplementary question? Can we hear from the Senator of Lamu County?

I speak on the same issue?

Yes.

Thank you very much, Hon. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I want to sincerely thank the CS for the way he has answered the Question.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the buck stops with the Government. It is the Government that is supposed to tell us when those roadblocks are supposed to be lifted. For the time being, I support the CS. We, the residents of Lamu County, expect the

Services, Senate. Government to give us the necessary security. Lifting the roadblocks does not mean that the security of that area is now in good place.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri): Do you have a supplementary question?

Yes, I have, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I want to repeat that the buck stops with the Government. The Government is the one that is supposed to tell us when these roadblocks will be lifted. I oppose the question by the Hon. Nominated Senator.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) : Sen. Githuku, does that mean that you agree with the Cabinet Secretary?

Sen. Githuku: Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I agree with the CS. My supplementary question is this---

That is okay.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, there is a very big problem in Lamu. I want the CS to explain to us when he will be removing the asbestos that are in Mpeketoni Police Station. Those asbestos have been there for a very long time. Hon. Duale gave a directive that all those asbestos should be removed, but that has not happened. My question is, when is the Government preparing to remove all those asbestos?

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) : Okay. Sen. Faki, you will be the last one to talk on this question.

Mhe. Naibu Spika, mambo ya Lamu pia inaathiri watu wa Mombasa. Ningependa kujua kama kizuizi cha watu kusafiri usiku Lamu kilitolewa kupitia kwa gazeti rasmi ya Serikali. Hiyo gazeti rasmi ilichapishwa mwaka gani na tarehe gani. Hii ni kwa sababu huwezi kuzuia---

Sen. Githuku, does that mean that you agree with the Cabinet Secretary?

Mhe. Naibu Spika, hilo ni swali. Huwezi kuzuia watu kusafiri bila kutumia gazette notice. Hii ni kwa sababu katiba imetupa uhuru wa kutembea wakati wowote. Iwapo Serikali itaweka vizuizi, lazima kuwe na gazeti rasmi itakayosema ya kwamba huwezi kusafiri kuanzia saa kumi na mbili jioni mpaka saa kumi na mbili alfajiri katika eneo hili.

Wakati wa janga la COVID-19, kulikuwa na taarifa katikaa gazeti rasmi la Serikali kuzuia watu kusafiri usiku. Baada ya miezi mitatu, taarifa zile zililetwa kwa Seneti ama Bunge la Kitaifa ili kuongezewa muda.

Asante.

Sen. Chute. Go directly to your supplementary question.

Asante sana, Bw. Naibu Spika. Swali langu linahusu vizuizi vya barabarani ambavyo ni shida kubwa sana kwetu. Kaunti ya Marsabit ilikuwa na vizuizi vya barabarani kumi na saba. Nauliza Waziri kama anafahamu kuwa kuna vizuizi vya barabarani vimewekwa usiku sehemu ya Turbi na Bubisa. Je, vizuizi hivyo vya barabarani vimewekwa kwa gazeti rasmi la Serikali ama vimewekwa kwa njia isiyo halali? Kama sio halili viondolewe.

Asante. The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) : Ni vile viko kwa barabara ya kuelekea Lamu?

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Ni barabara ya Turbi na Bubisa kuelekea Moyale.

Seneta, watu waulize swali linaloambatana na swali lililoulizwa.

Bw. Naibu Spika, watu wa Marsabit wanatutazama. Madam alipouliza swali lake, ni lazima niulize kuhusu Turbi na Bubisa.

Asante. Wamekusikia. Cabinet Secretary, respond to those supplementary questions, so that we make progress. So far, so good.

Sen. (Prof.) Ojienda, be ready with your question. The Cabinet Secretary for Interior and National Administration

: Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, on the ban, I agree with the hon. Senator that it has affected the economy of the people of Lamu. These are not contestable facts, it is the truth. However, when weighing it against the loss of life and balancing economic concerns, the Government will side with protecting lives. It is important to note that movement to Lamu is not completely banned, it is restricted only at night to prevent possible terror attacks. Losing one life is one too many.

Therefore, I ask my sister to bear with us as we continue assessing the situation. Unfortunately, we cannot give timelines, as they are dictated by external factors that must be addressed first. The threat is continuous and still significant. It is important for us and those supporting the economy of Lamu to understand this. In fact, if you were to calculate deliberately, the cost of one terror attack outweighs 365 nights of restricted transport. Even for economic reasons, it is important to prevent any possibility of an attack along the road.

We will continue assessing these issues to ensure that when we allow citizens to travel, we are confident of their safety. This restriction is already in place through a Gazette notice, which we have been extending every three months.

On the roadblocks raised by Sen. Chute, I believe those are operational matters. The National Police Service (NPS) reviews the need for roadblocks from time to time. It is important for Sen. Chute to understand that we are also facing problems at the border between Marsabit and our neighbours, particularly involving Oromo Liberation Front (OLF) and Oromo Liberation Movement (OLM) . That problem has spilled over into the interior, involving drug trafficking, human trafficking, banditry and the smuggling of ammunition and firearms. So, if you see roadblocks around Marsabit and Isiolo, it is because of ongoing operations along the border.

Lastly, the question on asbestos is a matter of great concern. While it may not be related to the Gazette Notice on the night ban, the directive from the Cabinet Secretary for Environment, Climate Change and Forestry applies to all Government institutions. I have seen asbestos in police stations, hospitals and schools. This is a subject we can discuss comprehensively another time.

I thank you.

Sen. (Prof.) Ojienda, proceed.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I have three questions and I have three responses from the Cabinet Secretary.

Ni vile viko kwa barabara ya kuelekea Lamu?

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Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to ask the Cabinet Secretary for Interior and National Administration the following Question.

Seneta, watu waulize swali linaloambatana na swali lililoulizwa.

Bw. Naibu Spika, watu wa Marsabit wanatutazama. Madam alipouliza swali lake, ni lazima niulize kuhusu Turbi na Bubisa.

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Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have again received a detailed response, including the number of deaths, the causes and actions taken by the security apparatus at the time. Maybe the Cabinet Secretary will just highlight a bit.

Are you satisfied?

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Question No.028

The last question is on the---

There is no arrangement.

What is the status of that question?

Do not assume you know everything in the world that the Chair does not know.

I do not know. Nobody knows.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, can I conclude, then the Cabinet Secretary will provide highlights when I am done?

This is the way to go. Thank you very much, Professor.

Question No.080

If you are satisfied, that is okay. Let us move to the next question.

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Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Cabinet Secretary can answer those questions.

Let me give guidance. You have said that you are satisfied with the responses on the three questions, is it not?

Yes, but Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, he could give a highlight of two minutes.

No, no, no

I am satisfied though.

What I want to ask is if there is any other Senator with a supplementary question on the three questions.

Have your seat. Sen. Boni, proceed.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, on the issue of operalise---

Wait, you--

Yaani khulumaba ---

Proceed.

Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, on operationalisation of locations and sub-locations, Cabinet Secretary, there are many new sub-locations and locations across the country. Young people have undergone interviews for employment. They have been waiting, some of them even for periods of up to two years. When are these people going to be allowed to start working as chiefs and assistant chiefs?

Any other member? Sen. Enoch Wambua, proceed.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Mine is also on that word, “operationalization”. Could the Cabinet Secretary respond, if he will? We have a number of new sub-counties created in Kitui County, including Tharaka Thagicu. He knows I fought with him here to create that sub-county. It was created and has been given a code. A Deputy County Commissioner (DCC) and other officers have been posted, but in terms of equipping the sub-county, the operations of the officers on the ground, including offices and vehicles for transportation has not happened. So, could the Cabinet Secretary be kind enough to tell us when the vehicles and other equipment required for the smooth operations of especially the DCC for Tharaka Thagicu will be done?

I thank you.

Hon. Cabinet Secretary, respond to those two supplementary questions.

Then maybe, Sen. Gataya can also ask. I think he is not here.

Hon. Deputy Speaker, there is this sub-location called Kamagona in Marawa Location. I am very sure Hon. Waziri is privy to that information

You can even pronounce it in Kiluhya.

Yaani khulumaba ---

Proceed.

Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, on operationalisation of locations and sub-locations, Cabinet Secretary, there are many new sub-locations and locations across the country. Young people have undergone interviews for employment. They have been waiting, some of them even for periods of up to two years. When are these people going to be allowed to start working as chiefs and assistant chiefs?

Any other member? Sen. Enoch Wambua, proceed.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Mine is also on that word, “operationalization”. Could the Cabinet Secretary respond, if he will? We have a number of new sub-counties created in Kitui County, including Tharaka Thagicu. He knows I fought with him here to create that sub-county. It was created and has been given a code. A Deputy County Commissioner (DCC) and other officers have been posted, but in terms of equipping the sub-county, the operations of the officers on the ground, including offices and vehicles for transportation has not happened. So, could the Cabinet Secretary be kind enough to tell us when the vehicles and other equipment required for the smooth operations of especially the DCC for Tharaka Thagicu will be done?

I thank you.

Hon. Cabinet Secretary, respond to those two supplementary questions.

Then maybe, Sen. Gataya can also ask. I think he is not here.

Hon. Deputy Speaker, there is this sub-location called Kamagona in Marawa Location. I am very sure Hon. Waziri is privy to that information

Hon. Deputy Speaker, an assistant chief retired, we have not---

Hon. Mo Fire, when the Chair is trying to advise you, you sit down quietly.

I was asking the Cabinet Secretary to answer those questions because we are really constrained with time. All Members are asking about operationalisation of a sub- location, location and division.

The Cabinet Secretary for Interior and National Administration

: Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, first, I truly appreciate the mode you have adopted, through the understanding of the Senator for Kisumu, Senior Counsel (Prof.) Tom Ojienda, that when you send Questions, it is better that you seek clarification where there is dissatisfaction, so that we do not keep reading everything.

I think he had an issue with Pastor Ng’ang’a. Before I go to the issue of operationalisation, the only question I have been asked to respond to relates to slapping of somebody by someone. It has been established that the alleged incident involving Pastor James Ng’ang’a of Neno Evangelism Centre in which he was reportedly captured slapping a congregant occurred during a night vigil prayer, otherwise known as kesha, on the night of 18th April, 2025.

The incident was neither reported at the nearest police station, that is Parliament Police Station, nor any other station. Consequently, no investigations are currently underway, as no formal complaint has been launched by the person who was slapped.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, just the same way Sen. (Dr.) Boni Khalwale raised an issue earlier about an MP who did not record a statement, this faithful also did not record a statement.

Yes, I am asking the question. I am trying to build up the case.

Do not build anything.

Services, Senate. Freedoms from Discrimination provided for under Article 27 of the Constitution, Freedom of Expression under Article 33, Access to Justice under Article 48 and Right to Privacy in Article 31 among others.

The Whistle Blower Protection Act provides legal protection for individuals who report unlawful or unethical behaviour, including those related to religious institutions. It prohibits retaliation against whistleblowers and ensures that those who report abuse or misconduct are safeguarded from victimisation.

In conclusion, the Government is actively collaborating with religious organisations and civil society groups to develop a safe and confidential reporting mechanism for abuse and training religious leaders to identify and appropriately respond to incidents of abuse and promote advocacy initiatives aimed at creating a supportive environment where victims and witnesses can come forward without fear of reprisal.

I will leave that matter there. Until we have a formal complaint, we will treat it as it is.

Madam Temporary Speaker, the issue of operationalisation of the administrative units is a cross-cutting issue. At the moment, we have gazetted 18 sub-counties, 291 divisions, 1,439 locations and 2,693 sub-locations which are yet to be operationalised. The reason is, we have budgetary constraints. Most of these institutions are gazetted because of public participation requests. Then, when we come here and submit the budget to Parliament, sometimes we fall short of the budgetary requirement to the extent that now we need, like Kshs2.5 billion, to operationalise these institutions.

Recently, we got a small budget; we are trying to prioritise a few areas that we will operationalise, starting with places with insecurity. As we work on this issue and push for the budget in the next financial year, I know the budget policy statement will come to this House for input. It is important that we look at that item and flag it out specifically. Some of these units were established in 2015 and up to now, they have yet to be operationalised. Therefore, it is important to deal with this issue.

We are so keen to do so because it helps us in security operations. Unfortunately, the budgetary allocations are not adequate. During Jukwaa la Usalama consultations with the locals, we picked a few that are urgent, and we are trying to roll them out.

On the vehicles, offices and all these other requirements, sometimes, leaders come and say that they want a sub-county. You then tell them that we do not have money to construct an office or purchase vehicles and they tell us to just gazette first. Sometimes, out of political pressure, I admit, the Government then gazettes. From there, the same leaders now go public, asking us how we can gazette an area 10 years ago without operationalising it. They then ask us to just send the Deputy County Commissioner (DCC), and they will see what to do about the rest. When you send the DCC, he has no vehicle or office. They then come back and start asking what kind of Government has a DCC without a vehicle or an office.

It keeps going on like that. As we try to resist that we do not want to have these situations, it is important to have a policy framework of establishing administrative units for this policy to be followed with its budget. That is one of the outputs of the Jukwaa la Usalama policy.

Generally, it is about operationalisation of all the six---

No, this is a substantive chief.

Divisions.

Hon. Deputy Speaker, an assistant chief retired, we have not---

Sen. Cathy Mumma, which question are you reading?

Services, Senate.

If I may digress just for one second, we are witnessing a lot of such issues in churches or religious centres where adults are being whipped. Some are slapped while others are sat on as part of impartation of the holy spirit. Some are washed by the pastors and so on and so forth.

I will respond to the other issue, but this is something that is of great concern to the public, particularly when someone goes to a church then they are slapped. Kenyans are wondering whether that is the right thing to do because of the extent of loyalty or brainwashing, very few of them are willing to come out and record any statement. When they do not record any statement, very little can be done by the police. Even though you can see it is a repugnant act to justice and morality, very little can be done if it is not properly recorded.

The policy framework that exists to deal with these issues are as follows- Firstly, the Societies Act is the legal framework for governing religious institutions. Secondly, the Penal Code where when someone is abused physically or otherwise, they can report to a police station for prosecution. We also have the Constitution where you are entitled to religious practices, but there are limitations when there is conflict with public safety, health and moral considerations.

What is the proposed way forward? The churches are being encouraged to do self- regulation through their associations and councils such as the National Council of Churches of Kenya (NCCK) and the Evangelical Alliance of Kenya (EAK) among others.

Services, Senate. Freedoms from Discrimination provided for under Article 27 of the Constitution, Freedom of Expression under Article 33, Access to Justice under Article 48 and Right to Privacy in Article 31 among others.

The Whistle Blower Protection Act provides legal protection for individuals who report unlawful or unethical behaviour, including those related to religious institutions. It prohibits retaliation against whistleblowers and ensures that those who report abuse or misconduct are safeguarded from victimisation.

In conclusion, the Government is actively collaborating with religious organisations and civil society groups to develop a safe and confidential reporting mechanism for abuse and training religious leaders to identify and appropriately respond to incidents of abuse and promote advocacy initiatives aimed at creating a supportive environment where victims and witnesses can come forward without fear of reprisal.

I will leave that matter there. Until we have a formal complaint, we will treat it as it is.

Madam Temporary Speaker, the issue of operationalisation of the administrative units is a cross-cutting issue. At the moment, we have gazetted 18 sub-counties, 291 divisions, 1,439 locations and 2,693 sub-locations which are yet to be operationalised. The reason is, we have budgetary constraints. Most of these institutions are gazetted because of public participation requests. Then, when we come here and submit the budget to Parliament, sometimes we fall short of the budgetary requirement to the extent that now we need, like Kshs2.5 billion, to operationalise these institutions.

Recently, we got a small budget; we are trying to prioritise a few areas that we will operationalise, starting with places with insecurity. As we work on this issue and push for the budget in the next financial year, I know the budget policy statement will come to this House for input. It is important that we look at that item and flag it out specifically. Some of these units were established in 2015 and up to now, they have yet to be operationalised. Therefore, it is important to deal with this issue.

We are so keen to do so because it helps us in security operations. Unfortunately, the budgetary allocations are not adequate. During Jukwaa la Usalama consultations with the locals, we picked a few that are urgent, and we are trying to roll them out.

On the vehicles, offices and all these other requirements, sometimes, leaders come and say that they want a sub-county. You then tell them that we do not have money to construct an office or purchase vehicles and they tell us to just gazette first. Sometimes, out of political pressure, I admit, the Government then gazettes. From there, the same leaders now go public, asking us how we can gazette an area 10 years ago without operationalising it. They then ask us to just send the Deputy County Commissioner (DCC), and they will see what to do about the rest. When you send the DCC, he has no vehicle or office. They then come back and start asking what kind of Government has a DCC without a vehicle or an office.

It keeps going on like that. As we try to resist that we do not want to have these situations, it is important to have a policy framework of establishing administrative units for this policy to be followed with its budget. That is one of the outputs of the Jukwaa la Usalama policy.

I do not know. It is the secretariat who number the questions.

Why I am asking that is because I have two questions from you, No.051 and No.121 and both of them are not related to what you are reading now.

Do you want to stand down your question first and clarify? You might---

Madam Temporary Speaker, I have been guided by---

Sen. Cathy Mumma, which question are you reading?

Just give me a few minutes I will explain myself.

Sen. Cathy, can you give me the number of the question you are reading out to the Cabinet Secretary?

Sen. Mumma, abandon that question for now. You will sort out with the secretariat. You can ask your second Question which is No. 121.

Madam Temporary Speaker, allow me to state this. I have been given answers---

Hon. Senator, I have given you directions. Go to Question No.121 and later sort out the revised edition of approved Question No.51 which is in my Order Paper.

Please go to Question No. 121.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I wish you would listen, then make the ruling because this is absolutely important. I submitted this in March. If questions are distorted without Members being told, then you should at least allow people to discuss it, then you can make your ruling. That is what I am trying to explain here. The question was absolutely important.

I have guided you. You are out of order. If you are not proceeding to Question No.121---

Madam Temporary Speaker, I will move on to Question No.121.

Yes, do that until you sort out the issue with the secretariat.

Madam Temporary Speaker, please allow me to state my case. Either the Secretariat or the team of the CS altered the question. That is why I am reading the Question that I submitted. Let me finish then you can make your ruling.

Sen. Mumma, abandon that question for now. You will sort out with the secretariat. You can ask your second Question which is No. 121.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I beg to ask the Cabinet Secretary for Interior and National Administration the following Question.

Cabinet Secretary, you may proceed to answer.

The Cabinet Secretary for Interior and National Administration

: Thank you very much, Madam Temporary Speaker.

In the aftermath of the 2007-2008 post-election violence, the Government expended enormous efforts and resources in order to ameliorate the unfortunate situation that Internally Displaced Persons (IDPs) faced. Throughout the country, 663,921 individuals comprising 245,416 households were profiled, vetted and verified as IDPs.

About 350,000 of this sought refuge in 118 camps, while 313,912 were integrated among various communities across the country. The IDPs faced different challenges and, therefore, the 245,416 households were grouped into several categories as follows-

Madam Temporary Speaker, I wish you would listen, then make the ruling because this is absolutely important. I submitted this in March. If questions are distorted without Members being told, then you should at least allow people to discuss it, then you can make your ruling. That is what I am trying to explain here. The question was absolutely important.

I have guided you. You are out of order. If you are not proceeding to Question No.121---

Services, Senate.

Thank you, Cabinet Secretary. Sen. Catherine Mumma, you can proceed on with Question No.051 if you have resolved with the secretariat.

Services, Senate.

Question No.121

Madam Temporary Speaker, I beg to ask the Cabinet Secretary for Interior and National Administration the following Question.

Cabinet Secretary, you may proceed to answer.

The Cabinet Secretary for Interior and National Administration

: Thank you very much, Madam Temporary Speaker.

In the aftermath of the 2007-2008 post-election violence, the Government expended enormous efforts and resources in order to ameliorate the unfortunate situation that Internally Displaced Persons (IDPs) faced. Throughout the country, 663,921 individuals comprising 245,416 households were profiled, vetted and verified as IDPs.

About 350,000 of this sought refuge in 118 camps, while 313,912 were integrated among various communities across the country. The IDPs faced different challenges and, therefore, the 245,416 households were grouped into several categories as follows-

Madam Temporary Speaker, please, allow me a chance to ask my second question.

Services, Senate.

Thank you, Cabinet Secretary. Sen. Catherine Mumma, you can proceed on with Question No.051 if you have resolved with the secretariat.

I would like to ask my supplementary question on this question please, on 121. The Temporary Speaker (

Services, Senate.

Question No. 051

Proceed.

Madam Temporary Speaker, on Question No. 051, what I would have asked if I had been given a chance is that the first question be deferred to another time because it was paraphrased by I do not know who. Therefore, the answer that has been given by the Cabinet Secretary is not for the question that I submitted. Of the four questions, the first one is not the question that I submitted. I will be happy to drop it, so that the Cabinet Secretary can be given the correct question that I had asked.

Madam Temporary Speaker, next time he comes here, he should respond to that if you make a ruling on that.

Hon. Cabinet Secretary, I have received your response and it does not provide the details that I asked. You have given numbers broadly of those who are compensated. You have indicated how they were compensated and which ministries participated in this. This question is important because at the moment, one of the issues that is still outstanding and we cannot just leave it to the courts, is that we have victims of protests of 2023/2024 who need to be compensated. My late party leader brought this as one of the conditionalities around the things that need to be resolved, that victims of violence or protest need to be compensated. The reason I asked the Cabinet Secretary is to find out whether there is a precedent in this country because the team that you put in place has actually been stopped by the courts. We need you to share with the country who was compensated in the previous violence. We also need to know in which places and I have asked for that, you have not given me the annex. I would want to see people who were compensated by county. We need to know. We had post-violence victims from many counties. I would want to see the list of those who are compensated, which counties they come from and how much they were given. That is very important information. From now onwards, we need to have an open conversation on this issue. The response I have, at least the one that was forwarded to me, is just a pager with your signature. It has not given me that detail. Cabinet Secretary, this is important in assisting the Government, which is attempting to put in place a mechanism to actually do that compensation. So, we need a public conversation once and for all on what is the correct methodology of compensating victims of political violence.

Hon. Cabinet Secretary, you can give your supplementary answer to that question.

The Cabinet Secretary for Interior and National Administration

: It is only at this instant that I can see the motive or the objective of this question. If that is the objective, to see how to compensate victims of election violence, post-election violence or protests, then you are going about it the long route. The shorter route was to ensure that we dispense with the court decision and then the panel is established. This panel will go for all this information and analyse how much is enough to support. This is because even in the 2007/2008 post-election violence, to the best of my knowledge, people were not compensated for loss of life and injury. So, it was not one of the factors. It was settling. That is why it is called IDPs.

The recent framework, however, that His Excellency the President put after consulting the former Prime Minister, the late Raila Odinga, is different. It will compensate for injuries and death which is different from settlement which applies to IDPs. The difficulty we have in giving you all this information, and I am sure it is in Government, is that it is in another Ministry and is of course extremely voluminous.

Services, Senate. Somebody has to go, add and so forth. However, as part of the history of this country, it is recognised that those who did not have land were given Kshs400,000. As I said, I can admit I was there because I was also a victim of the forest eviction.

Therefore, compensation for forest evictees and Internally Displaced Persons (IDPs) who were affected in 2007-2008 were also given Kshs400,000 for land. Those who went back to their farms were given Kshs10,000 while Kshs25,000 was given to those whose houses were burnt, so that they make at least some form of houses.

If that was the motive, that information is good enough to inform the compensation. I would have been more concerned and I was worried that he came here and said that there are some people who alleged that they were not covered. That would have been a bigger problem than the framework that is being put in place.

I was happy that yesterday His Excellency the President replaced the Law Society of Kenya (LSK) Chairperson with somebody else as we wait for the court’s decision on how best we are going to operationalise the compensation framework. I guess the one that has been proposed by the President will be unique on the entire continent because it will require its own rules and regulations.

As you rightly said, in looking for other compensation mechanisms that happened in the country, they will have to revisit this information. The best place to get the complete list and information is the Ministry of Public Service, Youth and Gender Affairs where the special programme is domiciled, which is the department that dealt with it when it used to be the Ministry of Devolution and Arid and Semi-Arid Lands in the previous administration.

I thank you.

Sen. Cathy, do you have another question?

Madam Temporary Speaker, please, allow me a chance to ask my second question.

Proceed.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I would like to say that the information I have requested is not a secret and therefore he should share it. Can I get the assurance of the Cabinet Secretary that all the information I asked for in this question will be provided?

Cabinet Secretary, you are the right person to collect that information because it is a security issue and you are in the same Government with your colleagues. You can collect that information and bring it to the Senate because it is important.

The Cabinet Secretary for Interior and National Administration

: Madam Temporary Speaker, under the principle of collective responsibility, I undertake to submit the document either myself or by requesting my colleague to do so, so that the hon. Senator can have information for her research and application in policy matters.

I thank you.

Thank you, Cabinet Secretary. Sen. Cathy, proceed to the next Question.

Services, Senate.

Question No. 051

Madam Temporary Speaker, on Question No. 051, what I would have asked if I had been given a chance is that the first question be deferred to another time because it was paraphrased by I do not know who. Therefore, the answer that has been given by the Cabinet Secretary is not for the question that I submitted. Of the four questions, the first one is not the question that I submitted. I will be happy to drop it, so that the Cabinet Secretary can be given the correct question that I had asked.

Madam Temporary Speaker, next time he comes here, he should respond to that if you make a ruling on that.

Hon. Senator, your request is granted. The Question will be deferred, so that you sort out the nature of the question and the mode that you presented it to the secretariat.

In the actual fact, time is gone. Therefore, Cabinet Secretary, I will ask you to make your final remark before we close this session.

The Cabinet Secretary for Interior and National Administration

: Madam Temporary Speaker, I thank you for the opportunity to response to these Questions. I will be happy to respond to the remaining Questions in the fullness of time. As Sen. (Dr.) Boni Khalwale had requested, I send my condolences to the family of the late MP J. M. Kariuki. The Government of Kenya will do everything possible to support the family during this point of grief because of losing their matriarch. We will give the necessary support and recognition required.

I thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker.

Hon. Cabinet Secretary, as you have noticed, there are a number of Questions that you have not tackled because of a heavy load of questions during this session. I believe you will be scheduled to come back to the Senate to tackle the remaining ones.

Hon. Senators, it is now 1.00