December, 05, 2018 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES 1

Wednesday, 5th December 2018

Leader of the Majority Party.

Hon. Speaker, I beg to lay the following Papers on the Table of the House:

Annual Performance Report of the year 2017/2018 from the Ministry of Defence.

Hon. Members, before we go to the other Papers, allow me to recognise a delegation which is seated in the Speaker’s Gallery comprising of parliamentary staff from the Parliament of Namibia who have been in the country since 3rd December 2018. The delegation is on a benchmarking visit on operations of various departments of our Parliament. Let us welcome them to observe the proceedings of the National Assembly and wish them well.

Hon. Speaker, I beg to lay the following Papers on the Table of the House:

Reports of the Departmental Committee on Energy on: The participation in the 42nd International Geothermal Association Annual Meeting held in Reno, Nevada, USA from 12th to 18th October 2018.

December, 05, 2018 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES 2

Chairperson, Departmental Committee on Transport, Public Works and Housing. I approved that Report. In the meantime, can we get the Chairperson, Member or Vice Chair, Departmental Committee on Environment and Natural Resources?

Hon. Speaker, I beg to lay the following Papers on the Table of the House:

Reports on the Departmental Committee on Environment and Natural Resources on: Delegation to the Sixth Annual East African Waste Management Conference held in Kampala, Uganda from 30th to 31st August 2018;

Fourteenth Annual General Meeting on the Inter-governmental Forum on Mining, Minerals, Metals and Sustainable Development on Modern Mining and Law Policy in Geneva, Switzerland.

Thank you.

The next one is the Chairperson, Departmental Committee on Communication, Information and Innovation.

Hon. Speaker, I beg to lay the following Papers on the Table of the House:

Reports of the Departmental Committee on Communication, Information and Innovation on:

Consideration of Public Petition regarding failure by the Government to regulate activities of the Citizen Newspaper;

Report on the International Broadcasting Conference held in RAI Amsterdam,

Chairperson Departmental Committee on National Cohesion and Equal Opportunity.

Hon. Speaker, I beg to lay the following Papers on the Table of the House today, Wednesday, 5th December 2018:

Report on the Select Committee on National Cohesion and Equal Opportunity on a benchmarking visit to the United Kingdom from 20th to 28th October 2018.

Thank you.

Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Trade, Industry and Cooperatives.

Hon. Speaker, I beg to lay the following Papers on the Table of the House today, Wednesday, 5th December 2018:

Reports of the Departmental Committee on Trade, Industry and Cooperatives on:

December, 05, 2018 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES 3

Next, the Chairperson of the Budget and Appropriations Committee.

Hon. Speaker, I beg to lay the following Paper on the Table of the House, today, 5th December 2018:

Report of the Budget and Appropriations Committee on consideration of the County Allocation of Revenue (Amendment) Bill, Senate Bill No.29 of 2018.

Thank you.

For the second time, let us have the Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Transport, Public Works and Housing.

Hon. Speaker, I beg to lay the following Paper on the Table of the House today, Wednesday, 5th December 2018:

The Report of the Departmental Committee on Transport, Public Works and Housing on the Ratification of the Bilateral Air Service Agreement between Kenya and Jordan, Kenya and Jamaica, Kenya and Bahamas and the Potocol Amending Air Service Agreement between Kenya and Turkey.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker.

Next Order.

We start with Questions by Private Notice. Members must slot in their cards. Hon. Yusuf.

Hon. Speaker, I would like to ask the Cabinet Secretary Ministry for Interior and Co-ordination of National Government:

Is he aware that on 28th November 2018 at Kabete Police Station, Ethics and Anti- Corruption Commission (EACC) officials were attacked by police officers leading to escape of two suspects P.C. Julius Oguma, Service No.79715 and P.C. Charles Macharia, Service No.95924 both from the Directorate of Criminal Investigation?

What actions has the Ministry taken to apprehend the above suspects and bring them to court or surrender them to the EACC?

What steps has the Ministry taken to ensure such acts are not tolerated and that the appropriate action is taken and measures put in place to protect the EACC officials from such acts?

Thank you.

Your Question is directed to the Departmental Committee on Administration and National Security to prioritise.

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I would like to ask the Cabinet Secretary for Water and Sanitation the following Question:

That Question is referred to the Departmental Committee on Environment and Natural Resources.

Next Question is by the Member for Kisumu West Constituency, Hon. John Olago Aluoch. He is not present.

The next Question is by the Member for Banissa Constituency, Hon. Kulow Maalim Hassan.

Question No.269/2018

Hon. Speaker, I would like to ask the Cabinet Secretary for Water and Sanitation the following Question:

The Question is referred to the Departmental Committee on Environment and Natural Resources.

Member for Nyatike Constituency, Hon. Tom Mboya Odege.

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Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I rise to ask the Cabinet Secretary for Foreign Affairs:

Very well. Question to replied before the Departmental Committee on Defence and Foreign Relations. We will go back to the Question by the Member for Kisumu West Constituency, Hon. John Olago Aluoch, who had written to request for deferment. The request has been acceded to and the Question is generally deferred. This is the guidance.

Question No.250/2018

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I wish to seek further clarification on the guidance you have provided. The Member for Nambale and I, had a pending Question that the Departmental Committee on Agriculture and Livestock was supposed verify. It was supposed to verify that I had been given a wrong answer by the Ministry. Unfortunately, the visit has been postponed due to some circumstances well explained by the department. I wanted to find out what will befall that particular case in view of the guidance you have given.

Make sure that by the end of the day today or possibly tomorrow, you visit Table Office so that the Question will be activated. Since the Committee is already seized of the matter, even when you revive it, you will read it for the purpose of the Committee organising itself to visit, if that was what was pending. That is the route to go. It is just like when Bills have

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I just wanted to make a statement.

Statement or intervention? I can see an intervention from Hon. Kioni. Is there something you want to say or it was just general?

Hon. Speaker, you have clarified what I wanted clarified when you were responding to Members’ issues. I had two petitions one on hardship area and the other one was the gazettement of Ndaragwa Township as a forest. The petitions were being processed by the Committee. So, I will do as you have directed.

I think I have seen letters written by the two Chairpersons regarding some petition one of which has your name. They suffer the same fate but may be revived immediately the House comes back on 12th February. If they continue now, the Committee will get into the trouble of the 60 days. It is better that the petitions be revived. Members who had raised those petitions or read them out, should be advised to do so immediately the House resumes so that the Committee can be seized of the matter afresh.

With great sympathy, the Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Transport, Housing and Public Works, I will allow you to give notice.

Hon. Speaker, I beg to give notice of the following Motion:

THAT, this House adopts the Report of the Committee on Transport, Public Works and Housing on the Ratification of Bilateral Air Service Agreement between Kenya and Jordan, Kenya and Jamaica, Kenya and Bahamas, and the Protocol amending Air Service Agreement between Kenya and Turkey, laid on the Table of the House on Wednesday 5th December, 2018 and pursuant to provisions of Section 8 of Treaty Making and Ratification Act, 2012 approves the ratification of the Bilateral Air Service Agreement between Kenya and Jordan, Kenya and Jamaica, Kenya and Bahamas and the Protocol amending Air Service Agreement between Kenya and Turkey.

Next Order.

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Hon. Members, I hope everybody is in possession of the Supplementary Order Paper. I hope sufficient copies have been circulated. Debate on this Motion was concluded and what remained was for the Question to be put which I hereby do.

On a point of order, Hon. Speaker, Sir.

No, that was the point at which you were supposed to raise your point of order, but you said you did not have anything to raise. Well, it is a statement which might be of interest to all the Members. The Hon. Member had approached me and that is why I was raising the issue because we had Questions and Statements as Order No. 7. You have not put your card.

Maybe it has been deleted by the computer while I have been away.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. Pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order 44 (2) ( c) I rise to issue a statement with regard to the status of disbursement of funds by the National Government Constituencies Development Fund (NG-CDF) Board during the Financial Year 2018/2019 and the state of projects at the constituencies around the country.

The two issues have been a matter of great concern to the Committee and many Members of this House. In our last two meetings, the Committee deliberated on the two matters in consultation with the NG-CDF Board and the Chief Executive Officer. The update on the status of the disbursement of funds during this financial year is arising from the brief by the Acting CEO on 29th November 2018.

Members noted the following: The National Treasury had only released Kshs6 billion for this financial year; as of today 5th December, only 170 constituencies had submitted their proposals for the projects to be funded; on 7th December, on Friday and Saturday, the board will convene to allocate and distribute funds to the constituencies that will have complied with project proposals.

On the resolution of incomplete projects, Hon. Members will recall the directive that you should complete the ongoing projects before embarking on new ones. According to the board’s

report on the incomplete projects sent to the Committee before December, Members noted that

December, 05, 2018 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES 8

Would it be in the interest of the National Treasury not to release funds to the board so that Members continue suffering? Why should this be so? The Hon. Leader of the Majority Party.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. The critical matter is the composition of the board. I spoke to the Cabinet Secretary, National Treasury, earlier but I will do it again this afternoon. By next week we will have a board. I am sure once the board is constituted then the project proposal submitted by Members will be approved and then the next bit will be how to disburse the money.

Very well, I see the Hon. Member for Suba North you have intervention.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I thank the Committee for giving that statement. However, given that in some of the constituencies we have inherited many incomplete projects, is there a way we could request a special fund form the national Government just to have the projects completed? This is because some are dating more than 10 years and we are expected to complete them within this time span. I do not think that is possible. But in keeping with what the President was suggesting, if we could negotiate with the relevant ministry so that in the next Budget reallocation can be done, there can be a special fund dedicated to completion of projects. Thank you.

Hon. Speaker, I wish to table the list of each constituency and how much is pending. Hon. Members will be surprised with what is there. I also agree with the sentiments of the Member for Suba North that when you go through this list, a lot of things are imaginary. Many are not implementable and that is why we need the board to give you a list of those projects specifically to every constituency before you can start considering them. Let me table the list.

Very well. Member for Markwet East.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I thank the Chair of NG-CDF for the statement he has given. Some of us had even considered seeking adjournment of the House to discuss the issue of disbursement of the NG-CDF. The issue of the board is very important because that is where all the decision-making is done. We are anticipating going for recess probably this or next week and you have heard the Ministry of

December, 05, 2018 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES 9

Member for Kiminini.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I want to raise what Hon. Owen has just said. It is true we have seen this year- round things are moving very fast. Form ones have already been selected. Very soon when we get back, we will have challenges particularly with the orphans who have done very well and are admitted to national schools since they are given priority in terms of reporting.

I am requesting our good Chair, though he has come back looking different… I can see he has a different hairstyle. Hon. Maoka Maore, while you were away, we missed you. Kindly, move with speed and even summon the Cabinet Secretary to explain why he has not brought the names of NG-CDF board members. I understand there is no way NG-CDF can move without board members.

This is something which is very critical. With the help of the Leader of the Majority Party who conducts Government business here, I do not think it should be a big problem. So that before we proceed on recess this matter is handled tomorrow.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker.

I think the biggest problem is failure to constitute the board. As the Chair of the Committee has indicated, even if the CEO calls for a meeting and some of those public functionaries are not available because maybe they involved in other duties, it becomes difficult for the board to transact business, which could include making decisions on disbursements. So, until the board is fully constituted, the Hon. Members might continue suffering.

The board needs to be fully constituted to make some of those decisions. Indeed, even the issue raised by Hon. Millie Odhiambo would be best addressed when there is a full board because it would be much faster. I am sure the Select Committee will push the matter when there is a full board. However, when the board is just four Government functionaries, who I think most of them are at the level of Principal Secretaries or thereabout, those are officers who obviously find themselves engaged in various other activities involving their ministries.

This is actually killing the purpose for which the NG-CDF was established. The board is key in making various decisions. Many of which will address the issues you are commenting on. Hon. Members, let us take the undertaking given by the Leader of the Majority Party, Hon. Duale, that he will get in touch with the Cabinet Secretary so as to give the names of the board members.

You know, Hon. Serem does not know that among other things, when I sit here, I keep counting Members because of the business that is there, most of which you concluded. You know, I am aware that there are some colleagues who have difficulties sitting here beyond 3.30

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. As an observation, the CEO of NG-CDF who is an active individual has been in acting capacity for the last six years. As we discuss about the board members anybody who sits in any institution aspires to be a CEO

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Again, let there be a full board and I am sure this issue will be addressed. Member for Kibwezi East.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I also want to talk about the issue that has been addressed by the Member. It should be noted by the House that the CEO has been on an acting capacity for more than seven years. This is very unfair because he has done so well. We look forward to the Leader of the Majority looking into this so that we can have a sitting board and the current CEO, Mr. Mbuno, approved to assume the position.

Well, I may not express any opinion on the later part. I will leave it to the board and all those who are involved in appointments and confirmations. Hon. Nyikal, you sit here up to 7.00 p.m. so you know there are some Members…Hon. Nyikal one minute.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I seek a very simple clarification. Projects which are incomplete are of two types. There are those which are not under the NG-CDF like dispensaries and health centres which had already been started. There are those like schools which are still under the NG-CDF. We were advised that those which are under counties like dispensaries and health centres should be completed by counties but many of them are still incomplete and are still with us. Are they also being addressed under NG-CDF? That is the only clarification I need.

Obviously, I may not be the one to respond to that. You can see, Hon. Babu Owino is pretending to be answering a call and is taking off. I have seen the Member for Moiben come in and registering, standing up for 15 seconds and then taking off. Those Members who like doing their legislative work out there, we want to see your faces more frequently in the Chamber. What is out of order, Member for Tiaty?

On a point of order, Hon. Speaker. I just wanted to raise something concerning NG-CDF. There are people called Fund Account Managers. I am aware that in every constituency there should be one Fund Account Manager. Tiaty Constituency’s Fund Account Manager is missing. I think the gentleman who was there got another job. I believe other constituencies are facing the same problem.

Just raise that one later. It is not for plenary. Hon. Members, some issues are just peculiar to your constituency. Why not raise it with the Chair of the Committee?

Hon. Speaker, you know all politics is local. It may look small to you, but it is not to me. However, I stand guided.

Please just raise it with the Chair of the Committee. Next Order!

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Order Members, including Members dashing to the ablution block. Hon. Members, debate on this Motion was concluded and what remained is putting of the Question which I hereby do.

Next Order!

Hon. Members, debate on this Motion was concluded this morning and what remains is for the Question to be put, which I do.

Next Order!

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Do not run. This is not grazing land. Hon. Members, again, debate on this Bill was concluded and what remains are a few other steps necessary in legislation.

Let us have the Mover.

Hon. Speaker, I beg to move that the Government Contracts Bill (National Assembly Bill No.9 of 2018) be now read a Third Time. I also request the Chair of the Departmental Committee on Finance and National Planning, Hon. Limo, to second.

Hon. Speaker, I second.

Member for Dagoretti North, we hear the Member for Suba South saying that you are pledging your loyalty. You can do that later.

Put the Question.

Hon. Members, I have confirmed, courtesy of the effort by the Leader of the Majority Party in whipping Members that we have the requisite quorum for us to complete the process of enacting this law. I, therefore, put the Question.

Next Order!

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Order, Hon. Members! The Members who are walking out of the Chamber, please do so quietly. Hon. Members, we are now in the Committee of the whole House to consider the Capital Markets (Amendment) Bill (National Assembly Bill No.19 of 2018) . Clause 3

There is an amendment by Hon. Joseph Limo.

Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairlady, I beg to move:

THAT, Clause 3 of the Bill be amended by deleting paragraph

(b)

. What we are proposing here is to delete this particular clause because it is already covered in the Act. Hence it is a repetition. So, there was no need of that.

(Question, that the words to be left out

be left out, put and agreed to)

Clause 5

Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairlady, I beg to move:

THAT, Clause 5 of the Bill be amended in paragraph (a) by inserting the following new subsections immediately after subsection (2A) ─

(2B) The Cabinet Secretary shall make regulations to give effect to the provisions of subsection (2A) .

(2C) A person who ─

December, 05, 2018 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES 14

Let us have the Leader of the Majority Party.

Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairlady, I thank the Chairman for this amendment. The first one is just a procedure that for every law that we make, the Cabinet Secretary must table the regulations to effect it.

There is a new development in the Capital Markets Authority called the rewards system. This is just to protect investors. In a situation where there is insider information whereby a staff of the Authority uses that system to benefit himself or herself, there is a penalty. Previously, the Bill only introduced the reward system. The Committee has gone further and said that that reward system cannot be used by the staff of the Authority.

Very well. Let us have Dr. Makali Mulu, Kitui Central.

Hon. Makali Mulu

: Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairlady. I also support this amendment. It is a good amendment in that it ensures that the issue of insider information is not taken advantage of and people benefit.

Even as I…

Hon. Makali, just continue.

Hon. Makali Mulu

: I support the amendment. It is a good one.

Before I propose the Question, let us have Hon. Millie Odhiambo.

Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairlady, I am worried that there is a stranger in the House.

Which stranger? Can you point out that stranger?

That is what is worrying me, Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairlady.

Where is the stranger?

Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairlady, we are just hearing sounds of a cat but we cannot see it. That is more worrisome than

December, 05, 2018 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES 15

The black cat is the one that Hon. Millie Odhiambo is referring to as a stranger.

Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairlady, we need spiritual leaders to cleanse this House.

Let us have the Leader of the Majority Party.

This is a House of the people. Anybody, including wild animals and pets, can play an oversight role. This cat represents a section of the people of Kenya. We should continue. I am sure that somebody might say that the House did not sit this afternoon when the cameras were dark. You do not need to chase the cat. In fact, we need to feed it. This cat was also here yesterday. We need to feed it. Do not play around with a black cat. I am sure the guys from the Coast will tell us more.

Very well. It is important for us to notice that the stranger in the House is not a human being. It is just a cat. Cats are not Members of Parliament. Leader of the Majority Party, cats may represent other cats but not in the House. The ones who are officially recognised in the House are the elected Members. However, I direct that unless the cat is harmful, the Serjeant-at-Arms should ensure that Millie does not see a stranger in the House.

Clause 7

Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairlady, I beg to move:

THAT, Clause 7 of the Bill be amended by deleting subparagraph

(vii)

. This particular amendment is just to delete subparagraph

(vii)

because it is similar to subparagraph

(iii)

. It was a repetition. We are just cleaning up the Bill.

(Question, that the words to be left out

be left out, put and agreed to)

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Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairlady, we have since considered this amendment and seen that it is not necessary. The Bill is okay. I drop this amendment.

Hon. Members, we are through with the amendments to the Capital Markets (Amendment) Bill (National Assembly Bill No.19 of 2018) . We are moving to the Committee of the whole House on the SACCO Societies (Amendment) Bill (National Assembly No.18 of 2018) .

We have an amendment by the Chair of the Departmental Committee on Trade, Industry and Co-operatives. Move your amendment in Clause 3. Hon. Oundo Ojiambo, Member for Funyula, will move the amendment. Clause 3

Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairlady, on behalf of the Departmental Committee on Trade, Industry and Co-operatives, I beg to move:

THAT, Clause 3 of the Bill be amended by inserting the following new paragraph immediately after paragraph (a) —

“

(aa)

does not meet the requirements of Chapter Six of the Constitution.” The justification is simply to align this particular Bill to the constitutional requirements and Chapter Six of the Constitution, 2010.

I see no interest to speak to this, Hon. Members. Hon. Maanzo Kitonga.

Hon. Daniel Maanzo

: Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairlady. People who are elected in the country or any person handling matters on behalf of the public has to comply with the Constitution, especially Chapter Six on good behaviour. Those

December, 05, 2018 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES 17

Leader of the Majority Party, do you want to speak to this?

It is good that this provision is in this amendment. The best person to speak on co-operatives and SACCOs in this House is Hon. Maanzo. He needs to declare his interest. There is a lot of corruption which is going on in SACCOs and co-operatives like the Mwalimu Co-operative Society and Harambee SACCO Co- operative. They hold millions and billions of shillings that belong to Kenyans, but still they do not follow due diligence. It is good to subject them to Chapter Six of the Constitution on integrity. As we move forward, we need to look at the co-operative movement. Why is it collapsing? It is collapsing because few people put money in their pockets. The House must be cognisant of that.

Clause 4

We have a proposed amendment by the Chairperson, Departmental Committee on Trade, Industry and Co-operatives.

Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairlady, I beg to move:

THAT, Clause 4 of the Bill be amended by deleting paragraph (b) and substituting therefor the following new paragraph—

“

(b)

in subsection

(3)

by deleting the expression “2003,

” and substituting therefor the expression “2015,

.”

The amendment is minor. It is just to correct a referencing error that was contained in the published Bill. Thank you.

(Question, that the words to be left out be left out,

put and agreed to)

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There is a proposed amendment. Hon. Oundo, move your amendment.

Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairlady, I beg to move:

THAT, Clause 6 of the Bill be amended—

It is on record that Hon Oundo in the capacity of the Chair has withdrawn the amendment in Clause 6

(a)

. Have you moved the amendment in Clause 6

(b)

?

withdrawn)

Yes. The amendment in Clause 6 (b) , is about doing away with a clerical error. The Act has Clause 62 and yet there is no Section 62 (d) in the principal Act.

Thank you.

The first one is the Leader of the Majority Party.

Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairlady, I am a happy man because I wanted to oppose that amendment. It is good because the Committee Members have withdrawn it. This Bill comes from the National Treasury. It is part of the Bills that came with the Budget of the Financial Year 2018/2019. Because of the volume of the resources that SACCOs and co-operatives hold, which is close to the amount of money that the pension funds hold in our country, the National Treasury felt that they must regulate the daily operations of SACCOs. I was very uncomfortable with reverting to the tribunal which is established under the Co-operative Act, Cap.490 to retain those powers. For the first time, the Professor has seen the light.

I support the withdrawal of the amendment.

Member for Makueni. Hon. Daniel Maanzo

: Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairlady, first, I must declare my interest to Hon. Duale. He always challenges me. I am a member of the co- operative movement.

If you look at the Bill in Clause 27 (7) , it says that the tribunal may reverse the decision of the Authority. First, it is the Commissioner who hears the case if a SACCO’s licence has been

December, 05, 2018 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES 19

We have a proposed amendment by the Chair of the Committee.

Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairlady, I beg to move:

THAT, Clause 7 of the Bill be amended in the proposed amendment to Section 45 by deleting the expression “Cap. 486” and substituting therefor the expression “

.”

The purpose of the amendment is to provide the correct citation for the Companies Act. The principal Act was based on citation of an old Act, but since its enactment in 2015, it was felt it is necessary to get the correct citation of the Companies Act, No.17 of 2015.

(Question, that the words to be left out

be left out, put and agreed to)

Clause 8

Hon. Members, we have an amendment to the clause by Hon. Oundo Ojiambo.

Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairlady, I beg to move:

THAT, clause 8 of the Bill be amended in paragraph (a) by deleting the words “the Authority may consider fit” and substituting therefor the words “as may be prescribed through regulations”.

The justification for the amendment is to take away the discretion of determining financial penalties to be imposed on a SACCO Society, any officer, director, committee members, employee or agent of the society and provide that financial penalties shall be

December, 05, 2018 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES 20

Hon. Millie Odhiambo.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairlady. As an adherent to the rule of law, it is a neater way to go and I support it. We must regulate our SACCOs. They are one of the organisations that are highly misused. We cannot under-regulate. People fundraise and get a lot of money in the name of youth and women, but the monies end up getting misused. I hope the regulations will be brought so that we look at them so that there is sanity in the sector.

Hon. Maanzo Kitonga, Member for Makueni.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairlady. The amendment proposes to delete the words, “the authority may consider fit.” There are regulations under this Act to be made under the Statutory Instruments Act. The regulations will prescribe the procedure of dealing with a matter instead of the Authority being the final decision maker. There is going to be a process. The amendment makes it better.

As other Members have stated, regulation of SACCOs if extremely important because there are millions of shillings belonging to people. Therefore, Sacco Societies Regulatory Authority (SASRA) is very important and must come up with regulations which we will approve as a House to make sure they are within the law and can be used to ensure the sector is well regulated.

Thank you.

Member for Aldai, Hon. Cornelly Serem.

Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairlady, I hope that after all this is done, we will have sanity in the co-operative movement in the country. If we look at a few years back, Kenyans lost a lot of money in these organisations that term themselves as SACCOs. I hope at the end of this we will have a situation whereby all SACCOs will be in order and realise that they are answerable to an authority. All SACCOs must be part of SASRA.

Thank you.

December, 05, 2018 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES 21

Hon. Members, that brings us to the end of Committee of the whole House on the Sacco Societies (Amendment) Bill, National Assembly Bill No.18 of 2018.

We move to the next Bill, the Assumption of Office of the County Governor Bill, Senate Bill No.1 of 2018.

We have an amendment by the Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Administration and National Security. Clause 5

Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairlady, I beg to move:

THAT, Clause 5 of the Bill be amended in sub-clause 2 by inserting the following new paragraph immediately after paragraph (f) -

“ (fa) a representative of the Ministry responsible for matters related to devolution; This clause discusses the committee members. This amendment is therefore including a representative of the Ministry responsible for matters related to devolution as part of that committee which ensures smooth assumption of office. The justification of this is that the Ministry which will be linking the counties and the national Government should have a representative. It is important because it is the Ministry which should provide technical assistance to the counties.

I beg to move.

Hon. Millie.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairlady. This is one of the clauses that in the past I would have opposed because of the nature of devolution as we had intended. Unfortunately, a lot of our counties are struggling. Most of the governors have failed and we are disappointed. Because of that, they are slowly making us to almost move back to a centralized system and I am hoping that is temporary

December, 05, 2018 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES 22

Very well, Hon. Nyikal Wambura, Member for Seme.

Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairlady, I rise to support this. In devolution, we have had a problem with the relations between the county and the national Government. There has been no clear understanding. Each seems to be working on their own despite the interrelations structures that are in place. Therefore, it is important to include this so that there is smooth transition.

I support.

Clause 6

Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairlady, I beg to move:

THAT, Clause 6 of the Bill be amended in sub clause (1) by deleting the words “to be at the service of the Governor elect” appearing in paragraph (c) and substituting therefor the words “for the Governor-elect”

The justification is that paragraph

(c)

talks about the person being at the service of the governor. This is therefore a cleaning exercise where whoever works, works for the office and not individual. I beg to move.

(Question, that the words to be left out be left out,

put and agreed to)

Clause 16

Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairlady, I beg to move:

THAT, the Bill be amended in Clause 16 by-

December, 05, 2018 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES 23

I rise to support that proposed amendment. When the original law was being passed, many of us did not anticipate that we could have governors whose elections would be nullified. However, the Committee should have gone further because we are seeing cut throat competition even in cases where governors’ slots have not been nullified like in my county which is no longer working because people are trying to ascend to the speakership because of an amendment like this, where people think they will come in and loot. That is the war that is going on in Homa Bay County. Nothing is going on because people want to come in and loot within that period. I wish the Committee would have gone further and stated the role of the acting governor so that it ceases to be a lucrative thing that people want to kill each other over. Otherwise, to that extent I support but I am encouraging the Committee to bring further amendments so that you tie the hands of people who come in. It is not a looting spree so that we can let Homa Bay County work. We are tired of theatrics.

Very well, the Committee is here and it is taking note. Hon. Nyikal Wambura, Member for Seme.

Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairlady, I rise to support this. As we implement the Constitution, we find that there are gaps particularly in the transition areas of the governor’s office. This amendment addresses a gap that was not visualized before. I therefore support.

Member for Teso North, Hon. Kuanya.

Thank you very much, Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairlady. Part of the gap that we were trying to fill as Members of this Committee was the question of the speaker assuming office. But in the Act, there is a provision that in the event the speaker is acting, he will only do so for 90 days. Within that period there will be an election.

Initially, we had the question of governors. When a governor ceases or dies in office, automatically the deputy governor takes over. In the absence of deputy governor, this is where this gap was to be filled. There was no provision for that as this Bill was focusing on the assumption of office. The procedure and ceremonies for taking over and handing over were not there. So, I think the proposal by Hon. Millie will be taken care of in the Act and we have taken note.

Thank you.

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Thank you. This clause and amendments are very important but need some clarity, in the sense that if the speaker assumes the office of the governor, is he also going to continue serving in the assembly as a speaker? What will be his role within those 90 days? Will he have executive powers just like a governor? So, it requires more clarity because you are a speaker and acting as a governor. The assembly will be in session, will the same speaker be conducting sessions as a speaker? It is a matter of clarity to be contained in this Bill and not assumption. This is something that needs to be clarified. I support but with further amendments.

The Temporary Deputy Speaker (Hon. (Ms.) Jessica Mbalu) : Let us have the Hon. Member for Nyando and then we will give the Hon. Leader of the Majority Party.

Thank you. We have a very progressive Constitution and that is what has informed the further amendment that we are coming up with as regards the vacancies as they will occur within the office of the governor. There was a misconception at the very beginning that senators were going to be more powerful than any person in this country. That is why those who would have otherwise initially gone for the position of governor chose to be senators only to realise that they have no powers and there was a mass exodus when they then chose to go and run to become governors. A 90-day period has been decided by the Committee as the transition period for the office of the governor. But how I wish that we would propose further amendments because the traverse that we have is giving an opportunity during a short period of time to an individual and all eyes are trained towards the resources going to these counties. How I wish that we would draw something like a committee of five drawn from the Executive, and a few from the assembly so that we have a quasi-body that will then take care of the resources of the county during that period.

The Temporary Deputy Speaker (Hon. (Ms.) Jessica Mbalu) : Very well, Member you are at liberty to have brought those amendments to the house and so, these are just wishes. You know the right procedure to have done that. Lastly, let us have the Hon. Leader of the Majority Party

For clarity the Hon. Member for Nyando, what you are saying on the Floor this afternoon is your duty. You have the right to go and bring an amendment. Even right now as we speak you can even do a further amendment. You can consult with the Chair but the gist of the matter… It is the Constitution that provides for the speaker as an acting counting governor where a vacancy arises. It is in the Constitution. But there is another law that is coming to the House, the County Governments (Amendment Bill) where we need to put the position of the Deputy Speaker which was not foreseen when that Act was being made.

The Temporary Deputy Speaker (Hon. (Ms.) Jessica Mbalu) : Hon. Members, with that debate… Hon. Makali, you want to clarify.

I think it is important that we provide clarification. There is a lot of what I call parallel arrangement between the national Government and the county governments in terms of governance structure. Just as it would be when the Hon. Speaker of this House is expected to assume the presidency, it is the same arrangement and this is just to give members confidence that that is already taken care of.

(Question, that the words to be inserted

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Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I beg to move:

THAT, the Bill be amended in clause 21 by inserting the word “committee” immediately after the word “governor”

This is basically to make it clear where the funding for this committee which oversees assumption of office will come from, which is the county government resources.

(Question, that the word to be inserted

be inserted, put and agreed to)

Clause 23

Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I beg to move:

THAT, the Bill be amended in Clause 23 by inserting the following new subsection immediately after the proposed new subsection (1B) —

“ (1C) Where a vacancy arises as contemplated under section (1A) , the speaker of a county assembly shall act as a governor and an election shall be held pursuant to Article 182 (5) of the Constitution.”

This is where we have been very specific in terms of when the Hon. Speaker assumes the office of the governor then elections will be conducted within 90 days. We are making it clear that when the Speaker assumes office, he will only be acting for 90 days and elections will be conducted.

(Question, that the words to be inserted

be inserted, put and agreed to)

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Hon. Members, we have an amendment by the Committee through the Chair. Hon. Makali Mulu, move the amendment to clause 2.

We do not have an amendment to clause 2 but clause 1.

It is clause 2 and not clause 1.

Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairlady, I beg to move:

THAT, the Bill be amended in Clause 2 by inserting the defining of the word “county public officer” in its proper sequence—

“county public officer” has the meaning assigned to it under the County Governments Act. We also need to amend the Order Paper because it reads clause 2 and not clause1. The justification is that, the word ‘county public officer’ has been used in the Bill many times. So, we just want to ensure we have the right definition and meaning of this term. It will have the same meaning as used in the County Government Act.

Hon. Members, I confirm that the amendment is on clause 2 and what is appearing on the Order Paper is supposed to be this clause as per the Act.

(Question, that the words to be inserted be inserted,

put and agreed to)

Hon. Members, that is the end of the amendments to the Assumption of Office of County Governor Bill (Senate Bill No.1 of 2018) . Therefore, I call the Mover of the Capital Markets (Amendment) Bill.

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Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairlady, I beg to move that the Committee do report to the House its consideration of the Capital Markets (Amendment) Bill (National Assembly Bill No.19 of 2018) and its approval thereof with amendments.

Next for reporting, the Mover to move reporting on the Sacco Societies (Amendment) Bill (National Assembly Bill No.18 of 2018) .

Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairlady, I beg to move that the Committee do report to the House its consideration of the Sacco Societies (Amendment) Bill (National Assembly Bill No.18 of 2018) and its approval thereof with amendments.

Next Bill for reporting is the Assumption of Office of the County Governor Bill (Senate Bill No.1 of 2018) . The Mover to move reporting. Hon. Makali Mulu.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairlady. I beg to move that the Committee do report to the House its consideration of the Assumption of Office of the County Governor Bill (Senate Bill No.1 of 2018) and its approval thereof with amendments.

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Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I beg to report that the Committee of the whole House has considered the Capital Markets (Amendment) Bill (National Assembly Bill No.19 of 2018) and approved the same with amendments.

The Temporary Deputy Speaker

: Mover.

Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I beg to move that the House do agree with the Committee in the said Report. I also request the Member for Mwea, Hon. Kabinga to second the Motion for agreement with the Report of the Committee of the whole House.

The Temporary Deputy Speaker

: Hon. Kabinga.

Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I second.

The Temporary Deputy Speaker

: Hon. Members for good reasons, we will move to the next Bill which is the Sacco Societies

(Amendment)

Bill.

Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I beg to report that the Committee of the whole House has considered the Sacco Societies (Amendment) Bill (National Assembly Bill No.18 of 2018) and approved the same with amendments.

The Temporary Deputy Speaker

: The Mover. Hon. (Dr.) Wilberforce Oundo

(Funyula, ANC)

: Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I beg to move that the House do agree with the Committee in the said Report. I also request, Hon. (Dr.) Nyikal to second the Motion for agreement with the Report of the Committee of the whole House.

I second.

The Temporary Deputy Speaker

: Hon. Members, for good reasons, I will direct that we move to the next Bill, the Assumption of Office of the County Governor Bill.

Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I beg to report that the Committee of the whole House has considered the Assumption of Office of the County Governor Bill (Senate Bill No. 1 of 2018) and approved the same with amendments.

The Temporary Deputy Speaker

: Let us have the Mover.

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Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I beg to move that the House doth agree with the Committee in the said Report. I also request Hon. Kaunya to second the Motion for agreement with the Report of the Committee of the whole House.

The Temporary Deputy Speaker

: Hon. Kaunya.

Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I second.

The Temporary Deputy Speaker

:

Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I really want to go on record that this Bill, as per Article 112 of the Constitution, will go for mediation. This is a Bill from the Senate and Article 112 of the Constitution says that if the House passes a Bill and amends it, it will have to go for mediation. So, we have amended the Bill that came from the Senate. I am sure when we come back in February, we will be in a position to form a mediation committee.

The Temporary Deputy Speaker

: That is true. It is a provision of Article 112 of our Constitution. So, it will be dealt with in accordance with that Article. I direct that we move on to the next business in the Order Paper.

Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I beg to move that the National Youth Service Bill 2018 be now read a Second Time.

This a very important Bill and I really thank the Chair and the Members of the Departmental Committee on Labour and Social Welfare for doing a very vigorous public participation so that we start the Second Reading of this Bill. It is very important. If we enact this Bill, a lot of the messes that the young people in NYS go through will be a thing of the past. This Bill seeks to establish what will be known as the National Youth Service (NYS) . It provides the functions, discipline, organisation and administration of NYS.

Part I of the Bill just deals with preliminary provisions. Let me go to Part II which provides for the establishment of the NYS as a body corporate. This Service, being a corporate body, will be capable of suing or being sued. It has to have that acquiring, holding and disposing of all movable and non-movable properties. If you look at Clause 7 of the Bill, there is proper and systematic analysis of the functions of the Service. What the men and women there will do is well documented in Clause 7. Number one, they will undertake a paramilitary training of the members.

I had the single opportunity to join NYS before I joined the university. I used to be a marksman. You know I am tall. The year does not matter. I was in the last cohort as a right marker. So, I can talk for NYS. You know Mzee Moi wanted to teach us some discipline but he realised later, when he disbanded that process, that he was training us to become military

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Before Hon. Wario takes

Mhe. Naibu Spika wa Muda, kwanza kabisa, nimesimama kuunga Mswada huu mkono. Pia, nachukua fursa hii kushukuru Kiongozi wa Wengi Bungeni kwa kuleta Mswada huu ambao ni muhimu kwa taifa na watu wa Kenya kwa jumla. Sheria iliyo mbele yetu ina vifungu 64, sehemu nane na ratiba ama schedule nne.

Lengo na maudhui ya sheria hii ni nini? Ni kwa sababu tunataka kufuta Kifungu 208 yaani National Youth Service (NYS) Act tuibadilishe ili tulete sheria ambayo inaambatana na Katiba 2010 na inaweza tatua matatizo yanayokumba taasisi ama shirika la NYS. Historia ya taasisi ya NYS inasikitisha. Watu wachache wameshirikiana kuwa wafisadi na kudhulumu vijana ambao tumewatuma wasome. Wameenda kuiba pesa. Hii ni hali ambayo imeleta huzuni na kueleweka vibaya kwa NYS katika taifa la Kenya na wananchi kwa jumla. Hali hii imeadhiri utendakazi, hadhi na jina la NYS. Tutafanya nini kama Bunge na taifa ili hadhi, heshima na jina la NYS lirudi pale lilipokuwa zamani?

Mwizi ni nani? Ni nani ameiba pesa za umma? Je, ni watoto 15,000 tuliowatuma kujifunza? La, sio wao. Mara hii, hatua imechukuliwa kwa waliohusika kuiba pesa za umma. Nashukuru kwa sababu wako mahakamani. Kwa hivyo, hakustahili kuuwawa kwa taasisi ya NYS kwa sababu ya makosa ya watu wachache. Wale watoto ambao wanaenda kupata mafunzo hawana hatia. Wanafanya juhudi na wajibu wa kujenga taifa la Kenya. Hawastahili kubeba mzigo wa wale walioenda kuiba pesa za NYS. Katika hii sheria, lengo kubwa ni kubadilisha muundo ili mara hii kuwe na baraza. Alivyosema Kiongozi wa Wengi Bungeni ni ukweli kwa

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Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I rise to support the National Youth Service Bill, 2018. I have several reasons for this. First and foremost, the issue of youths in our country is an issue that goes deep into the core of the hearts of most of the Members of Parliament, including me. It is an issue that is dear because we must take care of our youths who are the future of our country. This is the generation that will propagate our nation for another century or centuries.

The NYS Bill seeks to repeal the old Act, Cap.208 of the Laws of Kenya which was enacted soon after we got Independence. It is the one that established the NYS, through renowned figures of those days, including General China Waruhiu Itote as the Chairman.

We also had the legendary Principal of Starehe Boys Centre, Geoffrey Griffiths. He was also a founder of the National Youth Service, among other prominent men.

It is also important to share memories regarding the NYS. In 1988, I entered through the gate of Gilgil NYS Training College and enrolled as a recruit as requirement before joining the University of Nairobi. I settled in a barrack called Cameroon. I remember those days with

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Thank you Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker for giving me an opportunity to speak to this Bill. I wish to support it. In supporting it, I want to declare my personal interest. There is a Bill that came before the House when I was absent and I was told to declare my interest. Unfortunately, I was not there. But I will speak to it tomorrow. I declare my interest in every Bill that comes to this House because by training I am a lawyer. As a lawyer, I have an interest in every single law that comes to the House. Law and a lawyer are self-explanatory.

The Temporary Deputy Speaker

: Hon. Odhiambo, you have interest in every legislation that comes here. That is your primary role. I do not understand.

Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I was challenged when the Children Bill was brought here. I was told to declare my interest. Other than the fact that I have worked in the children’s sector all my life, I also want to declare permanent interest so that I do not have to declare it in every piece of legislation that comes here. By training, I am a lawyer. So, I must have interest in law. It goes without saying.

I also have interest in this Bill because I am also a graduate of the NYS Training College. I was a recruit in the F-Company in Naivasha. I went there reluctantly, but I am happy. In the hindsight, that is one of the best things that happened in my life. Recently, I watched a video by a US Navy Admiral at a commencement speech he was giving at Texas University. It is a very good speech and it has gone viral.

He was speaking about his experiences. I could not help but think that as he was picking lessons that he learnt in training, most of the things that I have learnt later in life, the thick skin that I have, the ability to endure a lot was in the NYS. We learnt to sleep while on our feet. I am not exaggerating. We would literally fall asleep while standing. We learnt to get water where there is none. We learnt to eat ugali with a bone. We learnt very many things and we were hardened at the NYS. I was laughing when Hon. Duale and my colleague Hon. Murugara were talking about the issue of Mt. Kioko. Fortunately for us as the women, we did not go to Mt. Kioko but we saw it at a distance. I remember we had a terrible person at their camp. I think we joined them for about a month or so. He was called General Kofa. He would tell you that ‘nafunga macho na nikifungua nikute umezunguka’. He would close and open his eyes and say ‘nimefunga na nimefungua, bado uko hapa?’ You then had to climb the hill. We were hardened. So it is one of the things that I am thankful to God for. I have learnt many lessons that I would have never learnt in any school or any class. I can never exchange it with anything in the world. However, one of the things I did not like about that experience at the NYS is that it was compulsory. It is nice when people go voluntarily so that it is not a compulsory thing. Every human being has a tendency to resist anything that is being forced upon them. So, when it is made voluntary like this one it is very good.

One of the things I liked and my colleague has talked about is that the first lesson was when you want to change the world, learn to make your bed. In the NYS, we used to make our

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Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker for this opportunity. I realise that we have very little time to contribute to this very important aspect of our country. I want to tell those who came to the NYS like Millie, Duale, and Wario in 1988, we were there as the pioneers. We are the ones who started that programme and we resisted to a point where we wanted to riot because we thought we were being punished by the then President Daniel Moi. To date I think it was meant to punish us, I am not quite happy even now, but I have nothing to do with that now because it is water under the bridge. This is a very important thing.

Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, this is a very important thing. We now have a corporate body, so we expect a better management structure and the Mwongozo principles to be adhered to. I would be very happy to know what those who started it on 1st September 1963 had in mind because that was quite early. I do not know where they had borrowed this from or where the idea had come from and that would be very important history. During the Tenth Parliament we went to Brazil and we came across a similar organisation and we have that report. The Clerk we were with is Wanjohi. That time, we had problems with Mungiki and we went there to benchmark for similar groups.

It is important to have this unit and to see the kind of statute Bill that we have for it. Unlike other Bills, you can go through this and see that it is really well crafted. It has gone through some very good drafters. A lot of minds have been put into it and I cannot see some hurry like we have seen in other Bills that have come for our consideration. My colleagues have mentioned one of the things that young people want to hear and that is that this National Youth Service will be a stepping stone to joining the military. They should not just be asked whether they were members of the NYS for them to be considered but they should be given a priority and set apart from others because then you will profile the NYS as a better institution as opposed to where we are coming from. It will be a place of choice so that it is not a place where you go because you have nowhere else to go. But if you have some added advantage that is clearly demonstrated to the public, we will profile this NYS programme better because it will be very useful to our young people.

After the training, the fact that the young people can access some technical training is a very useful thing. We need to make it not something that is a by the way but one that should be availed to all of them so that they leave the college with some training. For those who cannot continue with the forces they can leave the training with some technical training which they can use for a living

I have noticed a big change. Now, you find them in public offices manning gates and public places that we go and there is change. It is a great improvement and I am sure even the

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Thank you, I am hoping that the Chairman will look for ways, even if it is implied in the Constitution not to allow this. It is not good practice to

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Thank you and I support this good piece of legislation. The

Hon. Kioni, you must be alive to the provisions of Article 49 of the Constitution, going through to 50, 51 and those are provisions which cannot be amended. So, as much as we might want to say many things about people who steal our things, it is our duty to take them to court and prove our cases and jail them in accordance with the law and there is no other way.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, for giving me a chance to contribute to this very important Bill. As a Member of the Departmental Committee on Labour and Social Welfare, we had a chance to go through this Bill. We have agonised since the beginning of the year when we reduced the budgetary allocation to the NYS as a Committee. This was because of the wanton wastage which was going on there. It could not have continued that way.

What we realised after the reduction is that some of the money that we took away belonged to the young people. Just like Members have said, their cohorts and women from their constituencies who were cooks have not received payment up to-date. The urgency for this Bill is because we need to sort out what was happening at the NYS. So, we can quickly proceed to first of all appropriate money and move to make payments to the cohorts who have not been paid.

At the same time, we also need to work on a formula of having fairness in distribution of cohorts in NYS programmes. One of the issues which affected the cohort system when it came up was that it was used as a political tool. In fact, I had the privilege to serve in the Departmental Committee on Labour and Social Welfare in the last Parliament and I can remember the Cabinet Secretary then being asked about the cohorts, the constituencies they were from and how they were chosen. She replied that when the President asked for cohorts to be brought, that is what she did. Especially towards election, the cohorts were used as a political tool.

One of the issues this Bill seeks to sort out is having cohorts from any constituency whether Luanda or Homa Bay Town, whether you support the Government of the day or not. What we want to deal with here is systems and structures within the NYS, so that it is no longer a tool for politics and a place where people go to get money in sacks and bags like we saw with Kabura and some of the cases that have remained unsolved to-date. Something else we have seen with the NYS scandals, and it is very disheartening, is that some of the money which was stolen was supposed to buy food for the young people there.

Today, when you go to the ground and ask people to join the NYS, the motivation is very low. Some Members, have contributed stating that the NYS should be the first point of call for our disciplined forces. This is one of the amendments which the Committee is considering

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Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, for giving me an opportunity to contribute to this Bill. From the outset, I support the Bill as it is presented. Of course, we are going to have amendments. In this nation of ours, we have had NYS from Independence and over those many years, we had it transform into various forms. I want to say that over that period of time, we have had very huge investments in the NYS. Even though what happened last year was a very bad thing, it is only reasonable to think about how to prevent such things from occurring and make use of the many facilities and infrastructure which has already been set up.

I was in the NYS cohort of the mid 1980s before I joined university. Everybody has spoken how, initially, we were worried, but when we went through the course, we came out very happy people. The training was wonderful and great. In this country, one of the biggest problems that we have is what we are going to do with our youth, even though the NYS is taken as the last option. As has been stated, even if you are in the NYS, there is no guarantee that you will be taken into the disciplined forces. Of course, that has created it into some kind of last resort measure. If you miss anything else, that is the only time you go to the NYS.

In this Bill, we need to think innovatively how to make the NYS a better institution and to encourage as many youths as possible, even those with high qualification, to join. Over the years, we have been creating universities and converting mid-level colleges into universities and the result is that we have ended up generating many graduates who cannot get jobs. Even the trainings that we provide at the NYS after their initial recruitment should be as diverse and as complete as possible. We should not train them for formal jobs only. Rather, they should do many things on their own. Currently, the way it is, when people join the NYS, they look forward

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Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker.

From the outset, I support this Bill. I congratulate the drafters and the Committee. Looking at the process of legislation, I remember what struck me when joining the 12th Parliament was that law-making is about considering the conduct of society. It looks at that conduct in the past. It seeks to look at a particular problem in the present. Most importantly, it seeks to speak to the future by laying down rules or what we would determine as the desirable conduct of the society.

As I support this Bill, I am particularly challenged. I heard the Mover, Hon. Duale, talk about the tradition of patriotism. Looking through and listening to what the Members have contributed, it is clear that the Bill as drafted has potential. We need to take note that when we think of the tradition of patriotism and see the way in which it becomes a vehicle through which our youth will develop the sense of national ethos, they will, in a way, begin to take seriously the values of integrity, hard work and character-building.

We must acknowledge that we are at a point in time in our country where the NYS scandal is still more or less a defining brand when we talk about the NYS. As indicated in the Bill, it is very important that we begin the journey of creating a tradition of patriotism by remembering that a value is a belief that guides one’s choices and actions. Core values are beliefs that a given group of people, in this case, Kenyans, hold highest and which guide firm actions and not just flimsy statements or rhetoric, which are seen to unite the citizens and define what we see as our country. It is for this reason that I hope that one of the core actions that we need to take seriously is to bring to book those that we are aware did not do justice to the resources that were available for the NYS.

In terms of the programmes and the target group, if we define the group as young people and more or less leave it open as voluntary, we might want to do some benchmarking with what happens in other countries which would also help us to see what our end-game is. We might be leaning more towards how graduates could be incorporated into the disciplined forces. However, listening to the experience of those who had gone through the earlier programme and bringing to book my experience in teaching and linking with young people, it is important that we do not see the endgame or output only in terms of the disciplined forces of paramilitary training. We need to see how investing in this would bring in different skills, areas of work and ways in which they can contribute to society very clearly and how this can create a defined moral character, sense of integrity and most importantly, pride to be Kenyans.

At some point, I took leave of absence to run for political office in Alego-Usonga in

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Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker for giving me this opportunity to contribute to this very important Bill. I support this Bill. My constituency was affected by the recruitment of the youth before the elections. There were 1,800 youths who were recruited from my constituency. We have mothers who were cooking in my constituency, but they have not been paid to date. We need a proper system, structure and functioning of the NYS. Because of that, I feel it is very important for me to come on board to support these very important services.

The people who started the NYS had a very good dream and vision for this country, particularly for the youth. They had goals of empowering our youth. They felt it was proper to

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Thank you Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker for giving me this opportunity. I know probably the systems are not working properly. That is a challenge to the concerned department to ensure that all Members are visible in the system. Nevertheless, this Bill is timely. It has come at a time when there are a lot of issues and problems with the NYS. From Independence to the presidency of Mwai Kibaki, we used to have military officers serving as commandants of the NYS. During those times, we never heard or witnessed problems with the NYS because it was maintained as a disciplined service and force simply because at that time, whoever who was in charge - and they were called commandants - were ex-military officers. They ran the system properly with professionalism and there were no issues.

Where did the rain start beating the NYS? It all started when there was restructuring, which in the first place, was not anchored in law. So, we started bringing in technocrats or “professionals” and a lot of money trickled into the NYS. Because the persons running it were not disciplined and did not come from the disciplined services, they started misbehaving and becoming indisciplined with the huge amounts of money. About Kshs26 billion was allocated to the NYS at that time. What changed? The recruits were still there and the NYS camps were still there. No new camps were constructed even with those billions. But in the name of restructuring, we said we were going to take the NYS to the next level. It never took off!

So, what was the problem with the NYS? It was not the institution, but the persons that were mandated to run it. We were wrong by not hiring commandants in the name of ex-military officers and brought in technocrats who failed. So, this Bill is trying to sanitise that restructuring which happened without being anchored anywhere in law. We are now saying that it is time to professionalise the service.

It is very important that, at least, the Bill talks about a council. In the military, where I come from, we have the Defence Council, which is well structured. There is command and control. We are trying to borrow from the military where we have the Defence Council. Having a council in the NYS will also put some measures in place to ensure that funds that are allocated to the NYS are accounted for.

As a Member of the Departmental Committee on Defence and Foreign Relations, we visited Mandera. Shockingly, we were told of wastage of equipment worth millions of shillings belonging to the NYS. They were engaged at the border construction, but they abandoned their equipment and left. As I speak, the equipment is still lying there which is worth millions of shillings. Why? There is no structure or command and control. We gave the position of Director- General to people who have no clue how to run a service. The NYS is a service. The Chairman of the Committee is here listening. In the council, five members need to be appointed from outside, two being youth. I urge that among the three to be appointed from outside, it is good to have an ex-military officer because previously, there used to be a commandant of the rank of a Major. It is important to do the same. Even though we have the NG-CDF projects under the

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Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker for giving me this opportunity to make my contribution in respect to the National Youth Service Bill 2018. To say that this Bill is timely is to underestimate the challenge the NYS has gone through in the last few years. I want to draw the attention of the House and the general public to the fact that the NYS was truly NYS during the days when it was under the commandership of Dr. Geoffrey William Griffin, the founder and the Director of Starehe Boys Centre and School. I look back with nostalgia to when he would go to the NYS in the morning and come back to school in the afternoon in green uniform. We would marvel at it and feel safe that we had somebody who has a disciplined background and could take care of us; the boys from disadvantaged families who got the opportunity to go to the Starehe Boys Centre. One thing I regret in my life is that prior to 1990s, it was compulsory for all those who were to join university to go through the NYS for about three months. Unfortunately, through structural changes brought by World Bank and other multi donors, that programme was scrapped and I missed it when I was eligible to join university two years after it had been scrapped. I felt so sad, but when we went to the university, luckily enough, we had some who had gone through the programme and gave us wonderful stories. They trained us to do combats during riots and for that, I am greatly indebted to their training.

Looking at the Bill, it is basically more or less a standard Bill to establish a Government service in respect of various functions as set out in the NYS Bill. I hope it will manage to pluck or minimise the looting that has been witnessed as NYS 1 and NYS 2. The looting was craftily designed to loot the service to its bare minimum, so that people could raise funds for what we know. Many times, the scandal happened either just before or after elections. We know exactly why that happened. We hope and pray that the revamped and re-energized NYS will not fall prey to manipulation by politicians, more so those serving in the Government. This will ensure that we do not have another scandal at the NYS. I take comfort with the statements attributed to the new Director-General and she has made it very clear that she will run a professional service. I hope she will live by her word and we will not have NYS 3 scandal.

The Bill is fairly progressive. It contains very progressive provisions, but I have concerns about one or two things. The first one is the issue of appointment of the chair of the council. It seems to give the appointing authority; the President of the Republic of Kenya, unfettered powers to appoint a chair without consideration of qualifications and any process of vetting. Probably, I assume that is the military way of doing things. I would have imagined that we would make proposals or amendments during the Committee of the whole House to put qualifications for the Director-General under Clause 9 (8) that provides for general qualifications of members to be appointed to the service.

Reading through the Bill, one gets an impression that you are intending to establish a paramilitary group that can be used for various services such as to support the KDF, the Kenya Police Service and all other formations. We are apprehensive that with this kind of military training, if they are not strongly anchored in law, the recruits will be misused for purposes of undertaking crimes against humanity. We saw this during demonstrations last year when the presidential elections were disputed. We would want to have comfort that there will be a

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The

Hon. Manje, Member for Kajiado North.

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Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker for giving me this opportunity to support this wonderful Bill. This Bill has come at the right time. I am sure it is going to revive the NYS to regain its glory of being an institution of integrity and discipline. You have heard that it has produced very high personalities of this country. The Government has been investing a lot of funds in this institution, so that it can manage its core mandate. However, of late, it has become an institution that people do not want to be associated with. Even business partners are running away from it because they are afraid. They do not know what may happen tomorrow after a few greedy Kenyans, who wanted to get rich overnight, went there and carried money in bags and looted the institution.

This Bill will revive the institution and create jobs for our youth. My colleagues have said that women cooked in the cohorts in the villages and have not been paid to date. They borrowed money for the exercise, but they have not been paid. In Tharaka Nithi County, about 500 youths have not been paid. This Bill should support the NYS systems so that it can get back to its feet. Our youth should be supported to build a future and participate in the growth of the economy of this country. I Know the Director-General, Madam Matilda Sakwa, who has been a District Officer (DO) , a District Commissioner (DC) and a Regional Commissioner. I am sure she will be effective, but in future, we need to have someone who knows exactly how the institution is supposed to be run.

Due to time, I support the Bill. Thank you.

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The

Very well, let us have Hon. Bunyasi followed by Hon. Muhammed Sheikh, then the Mover.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I will not go into the details of the provisions in the various clauses of the Bill. I just want to touch on what I think are important public policy questions that might remain unanswered or overlooked.

First, the NYS, in whatever structure, has always been very useful. On the benefit side, it has been one service in which people get in without paying bribes. Normally, the recruitment is very professional. People get out there, do some exercises and they are selected unlike in other services. The military, police and the prisons in Nambale have a price tag of between Kshs250,000 and Kshs300,000 to be recruited. So, clearly, the NYS has stood out as distinct because it conducts a professional selection. In that regard, I like the recommendation that in recruiting the uniformed services, you can give high consideration to those who are already in the NYS because they will not have gone through the buying process.

We have ended up with an armed force of the rich and people who have discharged their assets to join the armed forces. That is a bad way of building a security force for a country. So, I support that provision in this law.

I see a very beautiful law that has been set up to give a new structure to the NYS. The biggest gift to Kenyans would not have been a new law. I do not think it is timely, in my regard, and it is almost irrelevant. I think what would have been a good gift to the people of Kenya are convictions of the NYS 1 scandal and the progress report of the NYS 2 scandal, so that we can know that the looters are being taken care of going forward. However, the looters are still at large. We do not even know whether under our eyes, looting is still going on at the NYS.

After the NYS 1, despite the real scandalous acts that took place like carrying Kshs80 million or Kshs60 million in cash, we know that Kshs1 million is about a kilogramme and a half, so, they must have used wheelbarrows, pick-ups or other means of carrying that money. Who thought we would have NYS 2? What is there to stop NYS 3? That is where the problem lay. It is not in providing for a new Bill.

I have read through the Bill and it does not, in any way, tell us what was weak in the legal framework of the previous NYS Act at all. There might have been organisational weaknesses in terms of the fact that, for example, it was serving purely partisan interests. You could not get the NYS service men with their equipment to come to your constituency if you did not belong to the ruling party. That was a big decision that required to be made.

I know there were some exceptions because they had to pledge loyalty. Even though they did not end up joining that side, we need to have a service that is patriotic to the nation and not to individuals. I do not see any improvement, in fact, in making the service go under the purview of the Cabinet Secretary. It ought to be an independent service like Griffiths did in the old day. It ought to recruit all our youth across the country, graduates of primary school, high school or university because this is an inculcation of values as has been cited here.

All these are beautiful things, but to regain confidence in the NYS, we need to get convictions for the NYS 1 and 2. This problem did not occur because of lack of money. In fact, if there was no increased budgetary allocation, maybe we would not have heard about NYS 1 and

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Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I support the Bill because it is very important, timely and contributes to the welfare of our national youth. It will also take care of very important safeguards for the NYS.

Youth are the future leaders of our nation. Given they are the future leaders, we must safeguard all their interests. Equipping our youth with the best skills is very important. That is why the precursor of the NYS has begun. That is the reason we are trying to ensure that we have safeguarded all the interests of the NYS. I remember, as my predecessors have said, there used to be a pre-university admission requirement of NYS training. Those were the heydays. This was before the World Bank came to influence with the structural adjustment programmes of the 1980s. This affected various other sectors like health, where I worked in the 1980s.

The NYS should be taken back to the good heydays. That can only be done if the restructuring is considered, approved and implemented through a proper legal framework. I support the Bill for that reason. Command and control will safeguard the NYS systems. It will also provide a way forward on how to deal with corruption which may occur in future.

Of late, the NYS has been on headlines for the wrong reasons. This is what we want to correct and make it get to headlines for the good reasons. We need to support the Bill. I also want to urge the Budget and Appropriations Committee that slashed off about Kshs6 billion from the NYS budget to return it and forward it to the NYS during the next budget. This should be considered in the Supplementary Budget to support the NYS, so that our future leaders can get the training they require. Obviously, the NYS continues to remain the flagship of our national youth development, which we were all involved in the 1980s.

Therefore, I wish to support the Bill. However, before I sit down, I want to say that whenever I go back to my constituency, like Hon. Sofia of Ijara has said, the youth ask a lot of questions. They have not been paid for the work they did last year. We want someone to be held accountable for this. We want answers for this, so we can explain to the youths. I hope the Chair of the concerned Committee is listening to me because we want this to be followed up. Why have the youths who worked hard last year not received their dues?

I support the Bill as long as it safeguards the national interests of our youths. The Temporary Deputy Speaker

: The Chair of the Committee, you must have heard the contributions of Hon. Mohamed and Hon. Bunyasi. I think you will do a lot of good service to this nation if you were to bring a report on the people who squandered the funds of the youth in the NYS 1 and 2, so that they can be dwelt with and people can know them properly through this House.

Mover to reply.

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Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. First, I want to thank the Chair, Members of the Committee and all the other Members who have contributed to this very important Bill. I am sure the Chair of the Departmental Committee on Labour and Social Welfare, Hon. Wario, is taking notes of all the deliberations. However, if he has missed anything, he can use the HANSARD to get the verbatim report of every Member who has spoken this afternoon.

Secondly, I have heard the concerns of the Member for Wajir South. I think this is not a matter for the Chair. Please, when he goes back to his constituencies, he should get the records. I think there are many youths who have not been paid. We should file a Question, so that the relevant Cabinet Secretary can come before the House and answer. You know the youth were duped, as I said earlier, when I was moving the Bill. I joined the NYS many years ago before I joined university.

From 2013, 2014, 2015 and 2016, we realised a budget growing from Kshs4 billion to Kshs26 billion. That, in itself, the Auditor-General should have raised a flag. The Public Accounts Committee (PAC) and the Budget and Appropriations Committee should have raised a flag. In Government departments, budgets do not grow from Kshs4.5 billion to Kshs26 billion.

However, I think we have learnt lessons. Corruption took place. The men and women who stole the money are in court. More are to be arrested. At the end of the day, this institution will be like a parastatal. All its audited accounts will come to the Public Investments Committee (PIC) . A council will be formed that will include men and women, and at the end of the day, it will make sure that this institution grows.

This is a very important Bill, not only to the House and the country, but also to the future recruits, I beg to reply.

The Temporary Deputy Speaker

: Hon. Members, that is the close of that debate. I thank Members who have made very enlightened, good and fundamental contributions to the Bill. Obviously, for good reasons, we will not call it to Question. That is the last business on our Order Paper.