November, 2 2016 SENATE DEBATES Wednesday, 2nd November, 2016

Hon. Senators, I have a Petition from three residents of Busia County concerning non-payment of dues by Madam R Enterprises Limited and the County Government of Busia.

Hon. Senators, pursuant to Standing Orders Nos.220 (1) (a) and 225 (2) (b) , I hereby report to the Senate that the Petition has been submitted through the Clerk by three residents of Busia County concerning non-payment of dues owed to them by Madam R. Enterprises Limited and the County Government of Busia.

In their Petition, the petitioners state the following:-

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Mr. Speaker, Sir, from what has been read, it is not coming out clearly whether the claimants are employees of the County Government of Busia or are employees of Madam R. Enteprises. There seems to be a grey area here.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the issue of county governments failing to settle debts incurred by suppliers or creditors is very common. This House has seen in the petitions that have come before it pending bills in some of the counties of up to Kshs2.5 billion. We saw it in the case of Murang’a, and I am sure every Senator who sits here knows that in their respective counties, there are pending bills that run into billions. In my own county ,the pending bills are estimated to be somewhere between Kshs4 billion to Kshs5 billion. Contractors who either supplied goods or services in 2013 and 2014 are still waiting for payment. No justifiable reason has been given. There is a system the Government has put in place called the IFMIS, where on the basis of work done, if that system works and the information is fed in properly, you should be paid on the basis of who did what. Secondly, when you apply for requisition from the Central Bank of Kenya to the operational accounts of the county governments, the Controller of Budget must be provided with information on the basis of specific activities for which you want that money. Under the PFM Act, there should be not a single debtor. However, some of the county governments are mischievous and incompetent in terms of meeting the requirements of the suppliers. This is one example where a supplier has struggled through the county assembly and has now come to the Senate to seek redress. It is important that we send a message to the county government that they must settle the dues of the suppliers. We have had suppliers and contractors demonstrating in many parts of this country for their money that has not been paid. I think this is a matter that we need to deal with seriously.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is true that many suppliers to country governments all over the country have problems. I am concerned that the Senate should be used as a court of appeal on matters that have been passed by county assemblies. There is a lacuna in the law on that particular issue, whether an issue that has been dealt with by the county assembly can be appealed at the Senate level. All said and done, every member of the public as per the Constitution has that latitude to petition the Senate on any matter. We can hang on that and arbitrate.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, at the outset, let me thank the petitioners for exercising their constitutional right of petitioning the Senate. I sympathize with this case.

As Sen. Billow said, it is not an isolated case. Cases of pending bills where counties owe contractors and suppliers monies are wide spread. In my own county of Vihiga, we have pending bills totaling to about Kshs2.2 billion. One wonders because our laws are very clear that expenditure can only be done on items that have been budgeted for. When pending bills cross over from one financial year to another, then you wonder whether those items were budgeted for.

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Mr. Speaker, Sir, the matter being discussed is serious---

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I was going to raise this point of order later on until you gave the opportunity to the distinguished Sen. Haji who I respect so much. We have rules in this House and I want to make a ruling on the dressing of Sen. Haji who is on sandals. I have no problem with the upper dressing because you have already made your pronouncement on that earlier. Are sandals allowed in this House?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am not wearing sandals; I am wearing shoes. Of course, I do not have socks but I have a reason and I do not need to explain that. I have come from an overseas trip and, therefore, it is in order for me to wear the sandals. However, this matter as far as payment to contractors is concerned is very serious. This is happening in many county governments including my own county government. A petition is lying in this House where the County Assembly of Garissa recommended that money should not be released as long as the current Governor is still in office. I foresee as we go to the elections, these matters will be left pending, new governors will be elected and they will not feel obliged to pay those debts because it was erroneously incurred by another governor.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, in view of this, this House should take this matter very seriously, whether it has bene dealt by the County Assembly of Busia or not. So long as the petition is with us, we need to deal with it.

Hon. Members, on the issue of whether Sen. Haji is wearing shoes or sandals, of course, sandals are not allowed. He has told us he is wearing shoes. I am just wondering what to do; whether it should be laid on the Table for us to demonstrate.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I join my colleagues in congratulating the petitioners by using this route to bring this issue to this House. The Controller of Budget has put the amount that is owed as pending bills to Kshs37 billion around the counties. It is quite a huge amount. We have had to deal with it even at the County Public Accounts

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Sen. Karaba, finally.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I congratulate the petitioners for doing what they have done. What they are doing is what this Senate should have done earlier. We should have found it fit to take the matter even further and discipline the executive of that county. That is our mandate. For the petitioners to come here, they are telling us that we are sleeping on our work. This is caused by the inefficiencies that we have due to various reasons. For example, they say they are grounded and cannot move or that they have no offices, no facilitation funds or even computers.

This is not the only county with this problem. The problems are in many other counties. A committee which is responsible for handling this petition should come up with something detrimental which will make the executives in all counties in the country to adhere to. That would make it possible for implementation of what the assemblies

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Hon. Senators, pursuant to Standing Order No.227 (1) , the Petition stands committed to the relevant Standing Committee; in this case the Standing Committee on Labour and Social Welfare. All those issues that the Members have raised will be looked into by the Committee. I am convinced that the matter can be considered by the Senate. That is why I have read the petition.

In terms of Standing Order No.227 (2) , the Committee will be required in not more than 60 days from the time of reading of the prayer respond to the petitioners by way of a report addressed to the petitioners and laid on the Table of the Senate.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to lay the following Paper on the Table:- The 2016 Budget Review and Outlook Paper for the year 2017/2018; the Medium-term Budget.

Hon. Members, we are on the last page on the Order Paper; Statements to be issued.

Where is Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Education? I do not see the Member who requested for the Statements. We can give it some time.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to report to the House that I have just received this Statement 30 minutes ago. In our usual practice in the Committee, we would want to deliberate on the Statement as a Committee before we can deliver it. With your

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Sen. Njoroge.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have no problem. I pray that probably the Statement should be delivered on Tuesday next week.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, we will endeavor to meet on Tuesday morning as a Committee. Hopefully by afternoon, we should deliver the Statement. Therefore, Tuesday is okay with us.

The Statement will appear on the Order Paper on Tuesday next week.

Sen. Sijeny, Vice-Chair of the Standing Committee on Roads and Transportation.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, if I remember correctly, you had ruled that this request for statement be directed to the right committee. It does not concern the Committee on Roads.

Sen. Sijeny, what did you say?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the last time this request for statement came up, we were told that the Ministry does not deal with it. You gave a direction that it be taken to another committee.

Let us establish it.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, my shock is that this question has been here for the last two months. If we are going to establish which committee is going to handle it now, we are already very late. If that is true, it would set a very bad precedence in the sense that we cannot decide quickly which committee should handle this. I am a bit disturbed. A ruling would help for future requests such as this.

Sen. Sijeny, approach the Clerks-at-the-Table. We have no information to verify your assertions. However, just approach them and they will assist you.

In the meantime, Sen. Karaba, bear with us but we will communicate shortly. That should bring us to the end of Statement hour.

What is it, Sen. Mositet?

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On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Even though the Senator who sought the Statement is not present, this is a very important statement because it affects the whole country and we know the seriousness of the issues the Statement could be carrying. So, I request that it is issued so that the House deliberates on it.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I had asked for a statement on the plight of residents of Kasarani Malewa Ward in Gilgil Constituency and it was on Order Paper yesterday but the committee leadership was not in the House. I was hoping that it would be there today because it is an issue that is quite critical. I hope you will give the way forward on the same because it was due yesterday.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, in support of Sen. Mositet, Sen. Bule did well to ask for this Statement. Unfortunately, the effect of drought will not be waiting until he comes to the House. I request that you allow the Statement to be issued so that we say something about it.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I also rise to support Sen. Mositet. People are dying even as we are speaking here. This is not a matter that concerns only Sen. Bule but it a matter affecting this country and the Statement is the property of the House. Therefore, could you allow it to be given so that we can save lives in this country?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, much as I support that the Statement should be issued today because we are here and some of us are victims of what is happening out there, I had also sought a statement which is almost related to this one the previous week. Since I was not in, the statement was deferred. It was on distribution of fertiliser and certified seeds. I am now back, and I am appealing to you to have the statement reinstated.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, although a precedent has been set in this House that the questioner must always be in the House when his or her question is being answered, this particular question touches on the real problem in the country currently. That precedent can still be interfered with using your own powers under Standing Order No.1. We need the Statement to be issued.

Order, Members, let me dispose the easier ones first. Sen. Karaba, your statement will be reinstated to appear on the Order Paper on Tuesday next week, and I hope you will be present. Sen. Wangari’s statement should appear on the Order Paper tomorrow.

Regarding the most popular statement, I have the following to say. First, we have established a precedent where a Member who seeks for a statement is usually present when it is being given. That includes some of the statements today. I want us to give the Member that benefit. Since it appears that he was speaking for all of us, why do we want to deny him a chance when all of us are interested? So, let us give him another chance

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Mr. Speaker, Sir, indeed, I do not have an answer this afternoon. However, I am in constant touch with the Cabinet Secretary (CS) for Devolution and Planning. He has acknowledged receipt of our requisition to get an answer. As he does so, he should know that the significance of this question is being felt throughout. I know he is actually preparing and compiling data from the rest of the country.

Last week, grain was released from Galana-Kulalu Food Security Scheme. Maize harvested last year was released to the people of Tana River and there is some grain being moved to various areas that are experiencing drought.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the CS for Devolution and Planning has promised to give us an answer next week on Tuesday.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Your ruling a few minutes ago was an addition of only 24 hours to the period within which the answer must be delivered to the Floor of this House. Therefore, is Sen. (Prof.) Lesan in order to change your ruling without seeking for a proper prayer over the same?

Sen. (Prof.) Lesan.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, when I came at 1.00 p.m., it is when I got the information which I have relayed to the House. By that time, I had not received your ruling. However, as you have ruled that we need an answer within the next 24 hours, I seek to be allowed to revisit the CS again and see whether I could bring an answer by tomorrow according to your ruling. I still urge the House to allow me to follow up and come with an answer next week as the CS has promised.

Order, Professor. You have seen, read, witnessed and felt the mood of the House and that is the mood of the country. The CS is on record because he publicly made the announcement. So, he has information of the state of play of his proposals or else he would not have pronounced himself on the same. I am, therefore, directing with finality that the Statement should be brought here tomorrow afternoon. In any case, it does not take eternity for a Government Department to compile a report. A report can be compiled in a day.

Hon. Members, I will like to acknowledge the presence, in the Speaker’s Gallery this afternoon, of the visiting Members and staff from Nandi County Assembly. I request each member of the delegation to stand when called out so that he or she may be acknowledged in the great Senate tradition.

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Mr. Speaker, Sir, I join you in welcoming the delegation from Nandi County. I specifically welcome Hon. Joseph Lagat whom together we founded the United Democratic Forum (UDF) Party right from the beginning. He was the representative of the party from the county. I hope that they will take home something from this Senate. They should learn what is good and discard what is not necessary.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I thank you.

Order, Sen. Wangari, you must declare obvious interest.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, allow me to join you in welcoming the delegation from Nandi County. I want to tell them that the Senate is the place to be. I believe they have listened to the deliberations of this afternoon about the drought situation in the country. I hope they will consider people who are suffering because of drought when they go back to Nandi and share what God has blessed them with. I hope they will take our greetings home and tell people that the Senate is the right place to learn and make devolution a reality.

Order, Senator! You are not on the microphone.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I wish to join you in welcoming Members of the County Assembly of Nandi to the Senate. I had the opportunity to meet them this morning, when they came for consultations with the Senate Committee on Land and Natural Resources. I found them to be serious representatives since they were championing the concerns of the people of Nandi. We had serious discussions on fundamental issues relating to land. We hope to work with them to resolve a number of those issues that they raised on behalf of the people of Nandi.

As they join us this afternoon, I wish them success and hope that they will pick one or two things from this Senate, which will help them in their deliberations in the County Assembly of Nandi.

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Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I also take this opportunity to welcome the delegation from Nandi to the Senate. If they have been to the National Assembly, they will note that there is a difference. This is a serious House that listens to and appreciates visitors.

I was to issue a Statement with regard to Moi University which is located in Nandi. Even though we have already finished dealing with Statements, I would plead with you that we go back, because I have taken a lot of time to get the Statement. I would like to issue it now that we have the delegation from Nandi and the Senator who requested for it.

On a point of information, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Sen. (Prof.) Lesan, whom do you want to inform?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to inform Sen. Karaba.

He has already concluded.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I believe he wanted to inform Sen. Karaba that Moi University is in Uasin Gishu County and not Nandi County.

I also want to join you in welcoming the delegation from the great County of Nandi. I wish to assure them that the Senate is here to protect and defend counties. They have already witnessed some deliberations concerning counties and how serious we are in trying to ensure that decisions of county assemblies are implemented to the letter.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I join you and my colleagues in welcoming these great leaders from Nandi County. I encourage them to be coming more often, so that they can learn more. I know that some of them will be the future Senators. I wish to let them know that the core business of this Senate is to protect counties and their governments.

More so, I want them to know that the Senator whom they sent to this Senate as their representative protects the interests of Nandi County. I hope to visit Nandi County to see what is happening as far as development is concerned, despite being denied the oversight funds.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I also wish to commend the team which has come to visit the Senate. More particularly, I wish to congratulate and encourage the ladies to work hard. This is the place to be. Next time, we would like to have them elected as women Senators and not just Members of the County Assembly (MCAs) . You are welcome.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I also want to welcome this team and tell them that they have an able Senator who sits in the Speaker’s Panel. He is also the Vice Chairman of the Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights, Chairperson of the Committee on Delegated Legislation. Above all, he came up with the famous Sang Bill,

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Mr. Speaker, Sir, I wish to join you and the Members of this House in welcoming the delegation from Nandi. I am excited that the MCAs, who are Members of the Committee on Land and Natural Resources in the county assembly found it fit, in their wisdom, to come to the Senate to meet the counterpart Committee in this House, a Committee that has a lot of interest in ensuring that the natural resources and land in this country are properly managed.

I am aware that Nandi County has a lot of challenges with regard to environmental issues and historical land injustices. The position and mandate of this committee from the county assembly is important in resolving a number of those things. It is commendable that they found wisdom to come and consult with the Senate Committee. All other committees in the County Assembly of Nandi and all the other counties must emulate them. However, I want to ask them to continue the fight of ensuring that devolution works not only in Nandi, but also in the entire country.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is of interest to all of us to note that almost all the 47 counties have already disbursed bursaries to children. However, the County Assembly of Nandi and I are aware that the County Government of Nandi has not disbursed bursaries. I urge them, through this Floor, to work hard and ensure that they push the county government to release every coin of the Nandi people’s resources that have been allocated for bursaries, health and roads. The responsibility of this committee and the County Assembly of Nandi is to ensure that devolution works in Nandi.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, with those remarks, I wish to join my colleagues in urging them to learn the best practices from this House.

Order, Members. Since we did not make progress to the next Order, we will go back to the Statement that was sought by Sen. Sang. The Chairperson of the Committee on Education will issue the Statement.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for allowing me to issue this statement which has been overdue and has taken me a lot of time to search for it, and I am happy that I have succeeded. I can see Sen. Sang is here accompanied by his voters.

This statement is about Moi University which is the second largest public university in Kenya having been established in 1984. The university has a student population of over 52,000 and a staff complement of about 4,600 spread among its campuses. The university holds 15 schools, 11 directorates and 11 campuses. It has mentored six institutions which have developed into fully-fledged public universities.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I wish to state that there is no leadership crisis – that was the first question – in Moi University. What we have is a transitional phase as the Council

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An hon. Senator: Wewe!

Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is true that Prof. Laban Oyiro is the current Acting Vice Chancellor at Moi University. As a matter of fact, there are two substantively appointed Deputy Vice Chancellors; Prof. Okech and Prof. Kimengich. It is, therefore, not true to say that the Vice Chancellor and two of the deputies are holding office in an acting capacity. The other two deputy vice chancellors are facing disciplinary processes.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Moi University’s Governing Council is still in the process of recruiting the Vice Chancellor. The process has not been completed. It only ends when the CS makes a substantive appointment. Given that the exercise is incomplete, it is premature to ask for the details of the candidates and their respective scores. The substantive Vice Chancellor shall be appointed as soon as the Council satisfies the provisions of the law and the accompanying regulations and the CS makes an appointment as per the existing procedure and law. In appointing a Vice Chancellor, the CS, besides merit, is also guided by the Constitution of Kenya, 2010, the principles and values in Article 10 of the Constitution, regional, ethnic diversity and gender balance. According to the University Act, the CS has the discretion to accept the recommendations, vary them or decline to appoint any of the candidates if the interview process is believed to be fraud or where there is canvassing or the chosen candidate does not satisfy, gender, ethnic and regional balance rule.

Finally, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I wish to reiterate that this exercise is conducted with utmost professionalism in keeping with the spirit and letter of the law and will no doubt lead to the appointment of a vice chancellor who will provide the requisite leadership that Moi University deserves.

Sen. Sang!

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I now understand why this statement had to take over two months for us to get a response from the Minister. If you look at the statement that I sought, they were very clear questions. For the Ministry to have taken this long, I now understand because the information given to us appears to be information that is cooked. I want to ask the Chairman for the following clarifications:-

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Sen. M. Kajwang, let your clarifications be specific and direct.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Just to establish my interest in this matter, I am a former student of Moi University and to be more specific, I was the Secretary General of the students’ union in 1999. It saddens me when---

Order, Sen. M. Kajwang! You should do that if you have been challenged. For now, it is clarifications time.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I was establishing locus standi on this matter. I want to find out from the Chairman of the Committee whether it is the policy of Jubilee Government to ethicize our universities.

When I was at the university, our Vice Chancellor was Prof. Raphael Munavu, a Kenyan and an academic who came from what we called Eastern Province and the university thrived. Is it a policy by the Jubilee Government to ethnicize university education because some of the calls that we have been hearing are that universities must be led by people from those regions?

Secondly, what action has been taken against the leaders who threatened to disrupt graduation at Moi University? Thank God they did not carry out their threat. However, we have National Cohesion and Integration Commission (NCIC) that is meant

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Bw. Spika, nikiongezea, nimemsikia Mwenyekiti akisema ya kwamba wakati wamahujiano, majina matatu yatawasilishwa kwa Waziri. Naye Waziri, atachagua moja kati ya hayo matatu au pia ayawache.Faida gani kufanyiwa mahojiano wakati Waziri hatachukua hata jina moja?

Pili, atueleze iwapo kumekuwa na mahojiano na majina matatu kupelekwa kwa Waziri? Aseme ukweli wala asidanganye. Wee, sema ukweli!

Order, Sen. Boy Juma Boy! You do not do that to your colleague.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the hullabaloos and anarchy that has happened in Moi University is known in this country and not acceptable at all. It is also of interest to the citizenry of this country to know the qualifications of those who have submitted their names to lead that institution. Once one submits himself to be a leader of a public institution even if it is a country, like you submit your name to be a president of a country, your qualifications are supposed to be public property. Can we, therefore, be told the qualifications of the three people who have been shortlisted to be picked as Vice Chancellor of this institution?

The Senate Minority Leader (Sen. Wetangula) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, I noticed that the distinguished Chairperson concentrated on what was asked by Sen. Sang and very deliberately avoided to answer to any of the rider questions. For the risk of repetition, I asked the Chairperson ---

Order, Sen. Wetangula! Even the ones sought by Sen. Sang who just demonstrated that he did not concentrate.

The Senate Minority Leader (Sen. Wetangula) : Exactly. At least he made some weak attempt to respond to what Sen. Sang asked. I asked the Chairperson that while the discretion of the appointment lies with the Cabinet Secretary (CS) including rejecting all the proposals as he has rightly said, what was the Government doing against two governors from the central rift of Uasin Gishu and Elgeyo-Marakwet counties, who are pursuing a reckless ethnic agenda by raiding the university and attempting to evict Prof. Laban Ayiro? Remember Prof. Ayiro did not even apply but had been requested by the State to be an acting Vice Chancellor pending the substantive appointment of a Vice Chancellor. These two governors were seen on national television stations and quoted extensively in the media that they did not want Prof. Ayiro because he was not one of their own. Are we going to run public institutions on the basis of ethnicity or competence? He did not answer any of those.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I noticed that the distinguished Chairperson concentrated on what was asked by Sen. Sang and very deliberately avoided to answer to any of the rider questions. For the risk of repetition, I asked the Chairperson ---

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Exactly. At least he made some weak attempt to respond to what Sen. Sang asked. I asked the Chairperson that while the discretion of the appointment lies with the Cabinet Secretary (CS) including rejecting all the proposals as he has rightly said, what was the Government doing against two governors from the central rift of Uasin Gishu and Elgeyo-Marakwet counties, who are pursuing a reckless ethnic agenda by raiding the university and attempting to evict Prof. Laban Ayiro? Remember Prof. Ayiro did not even apply but had been requested by the State to be an acting Vice Chancellor pending the substantive appointment of a Vice Chancellor. These two governors were seen on national television stations and quoted extensively in the media that they did not want Prof. Ayiro because he was not one of their own. Are we going to run public institutions on the basis of ethnicity or competence? He did not answer any of those.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is the answer that I have.

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On a point of order again? The Senate Minority Leader (

Mr. Speaker, Sir, from the outset, the Senator for Nandi County said that the responses seemed cooked. Considering the fact that there are many issues bedeviling the education sector in the country, I request that you direct that we broaden this aspect of question and summon or request the Cabinet Secretary (CS) to be appear before the whole House in a kamkunji here to respond, considering that national exams are going on and children have been told to write on the floors and others have found their names missing. There are many issues in that sector. Kisii University Campus has been closed.

The Senate Minority Leader (Sen. Wetangula) : Maseno University was closed yesterday.

I mean, these are issues that I request the Speaker to do something about.

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Mr. Speaker, Sir, I thought – I could be wrong and I stand corrected if I am – that when a question is sought, other than the question itself, the Committee is supposed to send the HANSARD with the questions to the Ministry. I also thought – I stand corrected – that once the answer is brought, the Committee is required to interrogate the answers vis-à-vis the questions asked. So, you cannot look as if you have been left hanging on nothing, Chairperson. You are making yourself look powerful yet we have granted you a position to be powerful. Could you please re-direct because the Chairperson appears to be talking about something that is not part of what we do?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, from the outset, the Senator for Nandi County said that the responses seemed cooked. Considering the fact that there are many issues bedeviling the education sector in the country, I request that you direct that we broaden this aspect of question and summon or request the Cabinet Secretary (CS) to be appear before the whole House in a kamkunji here to respond, considering that national exams are going on and children have been told to write on the floors and others have found their names missing. There are many issues in that sector. Kisii University Campus has been closed. The Senate Minority Leader (

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Mr. Speaker, Sir, at the time when this issue was raised in this House by Sen. Sang, I did not personally seek any clarification or ride on that request. However, I know that the people of this country have been waiting for a response to these concerns. I recall very clearly listening to the various clarifications sought on that day and one of them, which people have been waiting for, is what action has been taken on the two governors who raided the University intimidating the University management purely on ethnic grounds. The country is waiting for that answer. I am surprised that the Chairperson is being very casual about this issue.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, there is some new information that has been brought through this answer. The information is that there is an acting vicechancellor in Moi University and there are two deputies who are under disciplinary process. This implies that the two are not on duty. Therefore, it means Moi University is run single- handedly by an acting vicechancellor. Could this be confirmed as the position?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is an important Statement. The Chair has requested to be given more time to look for more answers.We hope as the Speakergives directions, the Chair of the Committee should not just come back with another lackluster Statement like we have received.

I seek one clarification from the Chair. He should clarify if indeed, as indicated in the response, that there are two substantive deputy vice chancellors. A Prof. Laban Ayiro is the acting Vice chancellor. Why did the Cabinet Secretary not consider appointing any of the two deputy vice chancellors to act in that position? What interest did he have in appointing Prof. Laban Ayiro? It is also important to know the position Prof. Laban Ayiro held in the university prior to his appointment as the acting vice chancellor. What is it that made him more suitable than the two deputy vice chancellors who were in office?

Order Members. I am satisfied that the Committee on Education need to do more.

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Sen. Sang!

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Since the Mover of the Bill is not around, I will put the question.

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Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, may I take this opportunity to second this important Bill. This amendment was muted after the events that took place in Makueni County.

This is a straight forward amendment that seeks to ensure that we have a complete process in handling the provisions of the County Governments Act with regard to the suspension of the counties. I believe that the various provisions of the County Governments Act and the Constitution that gives us the opportunity to address a number of the challenges in the counties have provided several mechanisms including but not limited to impeachment processes and the committees of this House undertaking various mediation processes within our counties.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the suspension of a county, in my view, has been given some negative connotation. If you look at the County Governments Act, there is one other opportunity that we have within theAct to address certain challenges within the counties.

The threshold for the suspension of the county government should not be raised too high because it is a legal process. The impeachment process and censure Motions against Cabinet Secretaries and the Principal Secretaries are mechanisms and opportunities to address issues within our counties and the Government. We should not attach negative connotations. Looking at the issues that were happening in Makueni County, I think the threshold taken by the President was a little bit too high. The threshold was raised high andthe President disagreed with the Commission which gave a detailed report.Unfortunately we did not understand and no reasons were provided to this House why the President took the position that he took.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, this House is left to discuss on the basis of what we saw through the Commission. As the members of the public and responsible citizens, we keenly followed the processes undertaken by the

Commission that ended up recommending the suspension of the county. When the report came out, as provided for by the law, the President had a different opinion. This House had no opportunity to understand what was contained in the report and the basis under which the President disagreed with the Commission.

This amendment is an opportunity and in the event there is a recommendation for the suspension of the county government and if the President has a different opinion, the decision of the President shall be debated in the House and the report of the Commission tabled too. As a Senate, we will interrogate and identify a relevant Committee of the

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On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Did you hear the distinguished Senator for Mombasa say that there are only 47 Senators in this august House? Is he in order when we know we are 67 Senators and the Speaker, making 68?

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Shame! Shame!

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Shame! Shame!

Mind you, that patient has not had medicine because there is no money to buy medicine and yet he is being given that money as a gift.

The Senate Minority Leader (Sen. Wetangula) : A gift for what?

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Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, have you noticed that in your village, people are dying more than they used to? They are dying because there is no medical facility existing in these counties when the funds have been devolved. We have voted money to these counties, but it is being stolen. The worst is that people who have been elected by wananchi to oversight those funds are now the ones who are stealing. They are the contractors and recipients of fake allowances from governors. Something is happening. The other day in Kitui Level 5 Hospital, patients in their beds were being given Kshs500 each and they were told it was a gift from the governor.

Shame! Shame!

Mind you, that patient has not had medicine because there is no money to buy medicine and yet he is being given that money as a gift. The Senate Minority Leader (

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Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, thank you for giving me the opportunity to say one or two things with regard to this Bill. I support this Bill strongly. The gist of this Bill is on who has the final say when it comes to suspension and ultimately the dissolution of a county government.

We are happy that we have a new Constitution which we had been crying for many years, if not decades. Eventually, we got a Constitution in 2010 and it is now running into six years. However, it has now dawned on us that there are very many gaps in this Constitution which make many laws which we have had before, to require amendments because too many things are not clear.

I am sure that when Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. was generating this Bill, he had certain things in mind and certain gaps in law which required to be filled. I think the case of the County Government of Makueni must have played a bigger role of the decision to proceed with this Bill. The Constitution includes a system which is now in the County Governments Act to suspend a county. Technically, anybody can raise an issue with a county government for it to be suspended. However, when it comes to the government itself or a part of that government where the executive says: “Dissolve us, we are unable to proceed,” and go on to tell the residents of that county that their government requires to be dissolved, I think they should be listened to.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, in the case of Makueni County, we ended up in a situation where not only the Executive arm of the government asked to be dissolved, but I believe a part of the Assembly did too, other than the fear that perhaps, if it were dissolved, then they may not be re-elected. The situation obtaining in the County Government of Makueni, which I hope has changed since then, was just untenable. When we get to that stage, it is fair that the final work which is the gist of this Bill should lie with the legislature. In this case, the Senate arm of Parliament. A Commission of inquiry has to come in because we do not want to believe the governor, his team or anybody else claiming that they have enough support to ask that the county government be dissolved. The work of the commission is to go through in detail the issues which have come up so that it establishes whether the people of that county want their government dissolved or not.

When that report of the commission is given to the President, he is entitled to his views and recommendation. That is fair because he is the Head of State. It is only fair for him to give his views in the form of recommendations to the Senate. However, to have a situation where the final say then ends up being with the Executive is what we want to do away with. That way, when that report of the commission goes to the President, he will refer it legally to the Senate. It must be discussed not just by the Committee, but also the whole House so that the House, on behalf of the 47 counties, will resolve whether the county government should be resolved or not.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we must realise thatwhen electing Senators the counties are equal irrespective of their size and population. This means that once the Senate has said, the countyhas said. This is what we want to get to.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, there are many gaps in the impeachment process, although it is spelt out in the Article 181 of the Constitution. It is the same thing which Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. is trying to address through this Bill. When a Senator comes up

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Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, thank you for the opportunity to contribute to this Bill. One of the cardinal principles of constitutionalism that we have is the control and prevention of arbitrary use of power and excesses. That is why we have checks and balances. Under our Constitution, there is a provision to suspend county governments. The drafters of the Constitution were conscious of the fact that the President can be vindictive and suspend a county government either because he dislikes a governor, because he is not from his party or does not support his policies.

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Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Mine is to congratulate Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. for this Bill.

With those few remarks, I beg to support.

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Mr. Speaker, Sir, I stand under Standing Order No.54 (3) to request that you defer the putting of question to tomorrow because we do not have the requisite number to vote.

It is so deferred.

Which Bill are you talking about? Is it this one being discussed?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, first, presuming I am wrong, in the tradition of Parliament, I withdraw and apologise on that particular bit. On the other hand, if I am right, then Sen. (Dr.) Zani is the one to withdraw the remark and apologise.

I will confirm in a moment.

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Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, can I therefore go to my contribution? I will withdraw and apologise if I am wrong. If I am right could you give the opportunity to Sen. (Dr.) Zani to withdraw her point of order and apologise?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I oblige happily. My apologies for that point of order.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Mine is to congratulate Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. for this Bill.

With those few remarks, I beg to support.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I rise to reply. I would like to thank the Senators who have ably contributed to this Bill. You have seen that all of them are agreeing on the lacuna we are trying to cure. I agree with Sen. (Eng.) Muriuki to the extent that most of the time when we generate these Bills, including his own Bill on impeachment, there is a gap that we have seen as a result of our work here on impeachments as in the case of County Government of Makueni. Therefore, I pray that this is one of those Bills that find its way into the National Assembly as quickly as possible. We are generating legislation to provide formula to help county governments. We must continue to say that county governments, although they are distinct under Article 6, cannot operate as if they are law unto themselves.

I beg to reply. Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr., we have no requisite numbers.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I stand under Standing Order No.54 (3) to request that you defer the putting of question to tomorrow because we do not have the requisite number to vote.

It is so deferred.