November 27, 2013 SENATE REPORTS Wednesday, 27th November, 2013

Hon. Senators, let us determine if we have quorum.

Hon. Senators, I am informed that we have quorum. Therefore, we may commence our business.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

What is it, Sen. Billow?

November 27, 2013 SENATE REPORTS

I think you are right. We commit it to both Committees. You can handle it.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have two Statements which are pending from the Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights which should have been issued yesterday. I spoke with Sen. Wako, who is the Chair of that Committee and he said he would give some indications this afternoon but I do not see him. I do not know whether Sen. Sang has instructions. There were two Statements: One regarding the IEBC and the other one regarding witness coaching.

Sen. Sang, in the absence of Sen. Wako, what do you have to say?

One regarding the IEBC and the other one regarding witness coaching.

Sen. Sang, in the absence of Sen. Wako, what do you have to say?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I do not have specific communication from the chair although I am sure he should be in the House. I cannot tell but he did not communicate to me any information with regard to the two issues. I suspect that he has some communication to make in regard to the same.

You were with him in the same meeting with Sen. Orengo just a half an hour ago.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I request that you defer the matter in the next five or so minutes.

This House does not work at the convenience of Sen. Wako.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I was also expecting to get the Statement from the Chair of---

Order, Sen. Sang. I thought even as you are asking for the patience from the House, what are you doing to deliver Sen. Wako?

Sen. Obure.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I was also expecting to receive a Statement from Sen. Haji in respect of the Statement that I requested and which has been pending. I spoke to him yesterday and he assured me that he was ready with the Statement. I am just inquiring if any of the Committee Members is ready to issue that Statement here.

Is Sen. Haji not here? What about the able Vice Chair? Any Member of the Committee?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, we will respond to that in two weeks from today.

Order! Order, Sen. Sonko! There are two issues you must put into consideration. I have not talked to Sen. Haji so you should move in your original intention. First, I do not know where Sen. Mike Mbuvi Sonko came from. You came from the left of the Chair. Senators usually sit in front of the Chair. Secondly, this was a reminder that the Chairman had actually promised the Senator to produce the Statement today. So, you cannot come and ask for another two weeks without telling us why.

November 27, 2013 SENATE REPORTS

Mr. Speaker, Sir, first I apologise. I think there was a communication breakdown because I was in the cube there answering to an important call. I am glad my Chair is in the House. I think he will take over from here.

Chairman.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to defend Sen. Sonko. This Statement was ready yesterday but unfortunately the Questioner was not available and we agreed that I would answer this afternoon and here I am to answer it, with your permission.

On 5th November, 2013, Sen. Obure requested for a Statement on the circumstances surrounding the death of Henry Nyabuto Omwange, a civil servant, who until his death was working with the Forest Department in Ogembo District headquarters. The

Mr. Speaker, Sir, first of all, I want to start by appreciating the efforts made by the Chairman of the Committee, Sen. Haji. I also know that he has gone through a lot of frustrations in trying to get this Statement. I appreciate that at last he has been able to issue the Statement to this House. As much as I appreciate this effort, the information provided in the Statement is far from being correct. I want to state that the wife and son of Mr. Omwange, according to this Statement, reported a missing person at Ogembo Police Station. That information is not correct. As a matter of fact, the first report was made at Ogembo Police Station at 10.00 p.m. on 20th August, 2013. The second report was made the following morning at 6.00 a.m. on 21st August, 2013. Again they were asked to go back at 12.00 p.m. on the same day. Eventually they were asked to record a Statement at 2.00 p.m. Is the Chairman sure that the information he has been given to issue to this House is correct when in fact there is evidence that the family of the deceased reported three times before they finally wrote a statement?

November 27, 2013 SENATE REPORTS

Mr. Speaker, Sir, first of all, I want to start by appreciating the efforts made by the Chairman of the Committee, Sen. Haji. I also know that he has gone through a lot of frustrations in trying to get this Statement. I appreciate that at last he has been able to issue the Statement to this House. As much as I appreciate this effort, the information provided in the Statement is far from being correct. I want to state that the wife and son of Mr. Omwange, according to this Statement, reported a missing person at Ogembo Police Station. That information is not correct. As a matter of fact, the first report was made at Ogembo Police Station at 10.00 p.m. on 20th August, 2013. The second report was made the following morning at 6.00 a.m. on 21st August, 2013. Again they were asked to go back at 12.00 p.m. on the same day. Eventually they were asked to record a Statement at 2.00 p.m. Is the Chairman sure that the information he has been given to issue to this House is correct when in fact there is evidence that the family of the deceased reported three times before they finally wrote a statement?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, as I said earlier, the deceased left his home without telling his wife or his family where he was going but when he failed to turn up, the family went to the police to report. As I said earlier, a good progress is being made because the telephone communication of the deceased with other people is already under investigation and, hopefully, the police will be able to catch up with these criminals and deal with them according to the law.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The issue here is that the police are claiming that the report the family made was of a missing person and yet the information available even at the police station is that the family reported this case of kidnapping in the evening, just an hour or two after the kidnapping took place. However,

November 27, 2013 SENATE REPORTS

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am torn between believing my colleague and brother, Sen. Obure, and these written facts. All the same, I will pursue it further and find out whether we can be given a copy of the OB to confirm what he is saying.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have another Statement to issue.

Just resume your seat. We will defer that Statement to Tuesday so that you establish the basic facts. So, Tuesday you will respond to that Statement.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

What is it, Sen. Wako?

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I had to do it after him.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I had to do it after him.

November 27, 2013 SENATE REPORTS

Order! I will take the votes and then resume the rest of the Statements.

Order, hon. Senators! I hope everybody has a copy of the Order Paper. We are voting on Orders No.8, 9, 10 and 11. But we will do Orders No.8, 9 and 10 with one Division Bell, and then we will do Order No.11 on its own. So, be guided.

November 27, 2013 SENATE REPORTS

Yeah; we are not having a Division; but the Division is for purposes of voting. We do not have to vote on Order No.11 today. We might need the same numbers, anyway. So, that was the point. But you are right; in terms of the Division, we will do Orders No.8, 9 and 10.

So, may the Division Bell be rung; and as the bell is being rung, we need the names of the tellers.

Order! Order, Senators! Order! The Division Bell has been rung and the names of the tellers are as follows. For the Ayes, Sen. Paul Njoroge Ben; and for the Noes; Sen. Judith Sijeny. I, therefore, order the door to be locked and that we proceed with the Division. I wanted to bring to your attention about the quorum during Division as per Standing Order No.77 (1) , which states:-

“No Senator shall be obliged to vote in a division, but those present and not voting shall either- (a) in the case of an electronic vote, press the “Abstain” button;or

November 27, 2013 SENATE REPORTS

November 27, 2013 SENATE REPORTS

November 27, 2013 SENATE REPORTS

Hon. Senators, in order to improve the period in which we will do this, I will order that we call that order, we take the vote, it will be tallied and I will not announce. We move to the next order, they will tally and then I will announce the results at the same time. That should save you a few minutes. Voting must be on every Motion on its own merit.

November 27, 2013 SENATE REPORTS

Next Order!

Next Order!

November 27, 2013 SENATE REPORTS

The Division is over and you can now open the doors.

Hon. Senators, before we move to the next Order, I want to rule that for Order No.10, we will have the Committee of the Whole tomorrow. For Order No.8, we will have the Committee of the Whole on Tuesday, because Sen. Khalwale is away on official Senate business. Order No.9 is done.

The Division is over and you can now open the doors.

Hon. Senators, before we move to the next Order, I want to rule that for Order No.10, we will have the Committee of the Whole tomorrow. For Order No.8, we will have the Committee of the Whole on Tuesday, because Sen. Khalwale is away on official Senate business. Order No.9 is done.

On a point order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Arising out of your directive that we do the Committee of the Whole on Order No.10, the County Governments (Amendment) (No.2) Bill tomorrow, I want to take this opportunity to convene a meeting of the Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights immediately after this, so that we can agree and make sure that amendments are in order for tomorrow. I would also want to use this opportunity to ask the Clerk’s Office to make arrangements immediately for us to be able to meet.

Sen. Wako, I am sure that you wanted to take advantage of the Chair’s ruling, but you did not have to overdo it by also requesting the Clerk’s Office to make arrangement for a meeting. That is your job. Once the Chair indulges you, the rest follows. We are doing it for purposes of ensuring that it goes to the other House before we all go on recess.

November 27, 2013 SENATE REPORTS

Mr. Speaker, Sir, regarding Order No.8, I was wondering whether it is completely impossible for Sen. Khalwale to designate somebody to deal with the Bill, so that we can finish with the two Bills and they go together to the Lower House.

It is, definitely, not impossible. But now who speaks for Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale? Sen. Abdirahman, are you the official spokesperson? The Acting Senate Minority Leader (

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have my Vice-Chairman, Sen. Mwazo here. Can you say something?

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. With regards to the point of order that the Senator for Homa Bay has raised, there is a culture that is creeping into Parliament that we must stop.

Yes! Yes! This culture of gracing every Executive function by parliamentarians is not acceptable!

November 27, 2013 SENATE REPORTS

Mr. Speaker, Sir, can I respond?

November 27, 2013 SENATE REPORTS

The Acting Leader of the few. I know that, partly, I am the source of the SMSs that he is referring to. But I normally send them to the side of the coalition that belongs to the ruling party; I do not send them to the Opposition. It is not mandatory and, in fact, it was on the request by the legislators – the Senators and the Members of the National Assembly from the Jubilee Side – that they need to know. But for me, the more concrete thing---

No, no, no; because for us, the more concrete thing is for us to say that it is not important for the entire Committee to attend, but they can send a representative.

What is it, Senate Minority Leader? Order, Senators! I do not see what is exciting passions here; this is a very sober point to argue.

So, proceed. The Acting Senate Minority Leader (Sen. Abdirahman) : My point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir, is that while I welcome the thoughts of the Senate Majority Leader, I would want to state that this House has worked harmoniously, irrespective of party or affiliate position, especially on matters of national importance. The messages he sent was received very well because it was meant to enhance the performance of this House. We have no objection; we can continue to relate, and relate very well. But I want to very categorically state that we do not have to attend Executive functions. There will be no harm in the Executive inviting individual Members of the Legislature, particularly in the areas where they represent; if it is Homa Bay, I do not mind my brother, Sen. Kajwang,

November 27, 2013 SENATE REPORTS

What is it, Sen. Kajwang?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, we are representatives of the citizens of this country; and we are members of a committee that deals with infrastructure and transport in this country on behalf of the citizens of the Republic of this country. Whenever we have our meetings, we consult with the Cabinet Secretaries, their Principal Secretaries and their technical officers on serious---

Order, Sen. Kajwang! You are on a point of order; this is not a debate!

My point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir, is that while I welcome the thoughts of the Senate Majority Leader, I would want to state that this House has worked harmoniously, irrespective of party or affiliate position, especially on matters of national importance. The messages he sent was received very well because it was meant to enhance the performance of this House. We have no objection; we can continue to relate, and relate very well. But I want to very categorically state that we do not have to attend Executive functions. There will be no harm in the Executive inviting individual Members of the Legislature, particularly in the areas where they represent; if it is Homa Bay, I do not mind my brother, Sen. Kajwang,

November 27, 2013 SENATE REPORTS

What is it, Sen. Kajwang?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, we are representatives of the citizens of this country; and we are members of a committee that deals with infrastructure and transport in this country on behalf of the citizens of the Republic of this country. Whenever we have our meetings, we consult with the Cabinet Secretaries, their Principal Secretaries and their technical officers on serious---

Order, Sen. Kajwang! You are on a point of order; this is not a debate!

Mr. Speaker, Sir, we are very much aware in this House that to get the votes we need, we usually exceed the threshold with not more than five Senators; either we are 29 or we are 30. Tomorrow, we are making a very critical decision in terms of voting for this Bill. While acknowledging your decision, is it possible, because the Members are here, to vary your decision and request that the Chairperson and the Vice Chairperson of the Committee can travel and then the rest of us can remain to vote?

Sen. Keter?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am a Member of the Committee, but I want to assure my colleagues that I will not be travelling to Mombasa; I will be here to vote.

November 27, 2013 SENATE REPORTS

Sen. Wako?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I wish to thank the Chairperson of the Committee for the steps he has taken because where there is a sort-of-conflict between our duties as a legislature, that takes priority. But can I just ask you also, maybe, to slightly amend your

November 27, 2013 SENATE REPORTS

Thank you!

Sen. Wako?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I wish to thank the Chairperson of the Committee for the steps he has taken because where there is a sort-of-conflict between our duties as a legislature, that takes priority. But can I just ask you also, maybe, to slightly amend your

November 27, 2013 SENATE REPORTS

Order! Order! I missed the last words of

Mr. Speaker, Sir, English is not our language. What I meant was that they have no vote to cast tomorrow. But I now swallow those words and I withdraw.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Order! And apologize!

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I apologize most profusely to the nominated Members, a majority of whom are ladies, whom I like.

Order! Order, Senators! Order!

November 27, 2013 SENATE REPORTS

Order, Senators! That is exactly what I was trying to avoid; for you to give your own interpretations. You had a very simple and brief assignment; just to confirm what Sen. Amos Wako had said; and I thought you had finished by saying “he said they are of no value.” You did not need to go beyond there.

First, I did not hear that and I think Sen. Amos Wako, you need to swallow those words and apologize.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, English is not our language. What I meant was that they have no vote to cast tomorrow. But I now swallow those words and I withdraw.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Order! And apologize!

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I apologize most profusely to the nominated Members, a majority of whom are ladies, whom I like.

Order! Order, Senators! Order!

November 27, 2013 SENATE REPORTS

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I wish, on the onset, to oppose this Motion in the sense that we started with the five names from this House. If the National Assembly acted in good faith, they should have amended the list, returned it to us before writing a communication to the Pan African Parliament. This is just an afterthought. It is assumed that the Senate cannot do anything because we cannot think and hence we are just going to rubberstamp this list. In my view, we should reject this list and sent it to a Mediation Committee because they could have even replaced Sen. Ong’era with another Senator, but not to give that slot to a Member of the National Assembly.

I oppose the Motion.

November 27, 2013 SENATE REPORTS

Not for now. Let Sen. Musila proceed. Mr. Speaker, Sir, after the National Assembly gave the names, they went ahead and informed the Pan African Parliament of the names without the courtesy of reference to this House. The issue here is not the party but the Houses. The Senate had two nominees while the National Assembly had three Members. On this list there are four Members of the National Assembly and only one Senator. We must therefore reject this list and subject it to mediation.

I beg to oppose.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The subject matter of the Motion before us has elicited quite a bit of debate and emotion both in this House and outside the House. Sometimes it is good to sleep over a matter and not to deal with it when it is a bit too hot. It is my request that we move under Standing Order No.97. I would like to propose that this debate be adjourned to some future date to enable further consultations on this matter.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, we could give it a week or two, to enable us to exhaust consultations, before we can exhaustively deal with the matter before this House. So, I propose that the debate be now adjourned.

Order, Sen. Kiraitu! Have you read Standing Order No.97 in extenso? Who is your Seconder?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I will be seconded by no other than the emeritus Attorney General, Sen. Amos Wako.

November 27, 2013 SENATE REPORTS

Order, Senators! Standing Order No. 97 (3) reads:-

November 27, 2013 SENATE REPORTS

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The subject matter of the Motion before us has elicited quite a bit of debate and emotion both in this House and outside the House. Sometimes it is good to sleep over a matter and not to deal with it when it is a bit too hot. It is my request that we move under Standing Order No.97. I would like to propose that this debate be adjourned to some future date to enable further consultations on this matter.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, we could give it a week or two, to enable us to exhaust consultations, before we can exhaustively deal with the matter before this House. So, I propose that the debate be now adjourned.

Order, Sen. Kiraitu! Have you read Standing Order No.97 in extenso? Who is your Seconder?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I will be seconded by no other than the emeritus Attorney General, Sen. Amos Wako.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to second this request, really on the basis that we would want as much as possible, through consultation, to try and resolve this matter amicably. The opportunity should be given for that and I think that a week or two will suffice. It may very well be that this is a matter that can be resolved very amicably and we move forward. We have an image at the Pan-African Parliament to keep and so, if we can resolve this matter amicably, we will be able to restore the respect that, that Parliament has for the Parliament for Kenya.

I beg to second.

Order, Senators! Standing Order No. 97 (3) reads:-

November 27, 2013 SENATE REPORTS

The Vice-Chairman of the Committee on Energy, Roads and Transportation Committee was still moving the Motion. Is he not here?

Sen. Obure!

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, Sen. Orengo had asked for a Statement on the alleged involvement of public officers in coaching of the International Criminal Court (ICC) witnesses against the Deputy President.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I received the answer from the Office of the Attorney General yesterday morning, although it is dated 21st November, 2013. The answer requires certain clarifications and I talked to Sen. James Orengo and requested that I be given time to seek those clarifications, so that when I give the answer in this House, it will be a solid answer. I would, therefore, kindly request that the matter be put off to Wednesday next week, if that is convenient.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we had actually discussed this matter with the Chairman of the Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights and I am in a position to accommodate him. So, the Statement can actually come next week, on Wednesday afternoon.

It is so ordered!

November 27, 2013 SENATE REPORTS

It is so ordered!

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I had a Statement pending and the Chairman of the Committee on National Security and Foreign Relations was on his feet to deliver it, but that Order was suspended. Since the Chairman is here, could he be allowed to give the Statement, regarding the withdrawal of bodyguards of Sen. Muthama?

Sen. Haji, you may proceed.

November 27, 2013 SENATE REPORTS

November 27, 2013 SENATE REPORTS

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I have a problem with the answer to this Statement that I had requested because, one, the Chairperson of the Committee has just dealt with the question of one bodyguard, while the Statement I requested related to the entire security personnel attached to the Senator. He has given confirmation that the bodyguard has been made available following the withdrawal.

So, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, in view of the fact that this answer is not complete and, secondly, in view of the fact that the Cabinet Secretary (CS) was--- Because this Statement was requested on the 12th of November, 2013, and on the 21st of November, 2013, the Cabinet Secretary was saying he was not aware; that is nine days later and he was not aware! But now, indeed, in answer to the request for this Statement, the Chairperson has said that, actually, a bodyguard has been returned. So, there is discrepancy in this Statement as to whether the CS is in charge of the facts of this situation. It disturbs me that the CS would actually not be aware when a bodyguard is withdrawn. Even in this written Statement, the factual situation is that he is not aware; but the Chairperson has given further information that, in fact, the security detail has been returned.

So, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, with your permission, I would want to request that the Chairperson comes back with a more detailed answer in response to each and every Question that was asked in this Statement. I am saying this knowing very well that the Chairperson has really helped in this situation; that he went out of the way to make sure that, at least, the bodyguard was returned to Sen. Muthama. Indeed, next time I am in a problem, I will go to Sen. Haji, because I know he will deal with it.

So, I do not know, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir; can some direction be given on this issue? If the Chairperson feels that this Statement is comprehensive enough, then I will proceed to ask further questions. But if he agrees with me that it is not comprehensive, then, with every humility, I would ask him to come with a more comprehensive Statement.

Sen. Haji.

November 27, 2013 SENATE REPORTS

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, my only problem with that is that yesterday’s meeting was a good meeting, but it is not part of the official proceedings of the House; it was not a formal sitting of this House. This House is entitled to an answer in Plenary; whereas it may mean a repetition of the answer that was given yesterday, but I think it is for purposes of having a proper record, because it may relate to Sen. Muthama, but it may affect anybody else. So, I still plead with the Chairperson that, that answer that was given yesterday, which was comprehensive, be brought before the formal sitting of the Senate.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, on 12th November, 2013, Sen. Orengo requested for a Statement on the withdrawal of Sen. Johnston Muthama’s security detail. In his request, he sought the following:-

November 27, 2013 SENATE REPORTS

Let us hear Sen. Obure before I make my final comments.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the issue before us raises some fundamental questions. On the 21st of November, 2013, the CS agreed that he was not aware. In fact, even at yesterday’s meeting, we were told that even the Inspector-General (IG) of Police and his deputies were not aware of who withdrew Sen. Muthama’s security detail. This, then, prompts me to raise the following question. In this report which will be tabled here following yesterday’s proceedings, can it be explained who gave all this authority for the withdrawal of the security detail, subjecting Sen. Muthama to obvious risk? We would like to know so that we can attribute responsibility to the individual person who did this.

November 27, 2013 SENATE REPORTS

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, my only problem with that is that yesterday’s meeting was a good meeting, but it is not part of the official proceedings of the House; it was not a formal sitting of this House. This House is entitled to an answer in Plenary; whereas it may mean a repetition of the answer that was given yesterday, but I think it is for purposes of having a proper record, because it may relate to Sen. Muthama, but it may affect anybody else. So, I still plead with the Chairperson that, that answer that was given yesterday, which was comprehensive, be brought before the formal sitting of the Senate.

Sen. Haji, while you are reacting, we would like to know whether a report is pending from the proceedings of yesterday’s meeting; and if so, would it then be that when you are laying that report on the Table, it will come together with the answer that Sen. Orengo seeks?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the Committee will lay that report on the Table. So, depending on the directions that you are going to give and if my brother is not feeling hard in accepting it, what I will do is to ask them to replicate what they have told us here; and that will be a double job. So, I still want to plead with him that when we present the report, all this will be taken care of.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

Order, Sen. Haji! After how long will the report of yesterday’s meeting be tabled in this House?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, as soon as possible. It will depend on the secretariat.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

Let us hear Sen. Obure before I make my final comments.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the issue before us raises some fundamental questions. On the 21st of November, 2013, the CS agreed that he was not aware. In fact, even at yesterday’s meeting, we were told that even the Inspector-General (IG) of Police and his deputies were not aware of who withdrew Sen. Muthama’s security detail. This, then, prompts me to raise the following question. In this report which will be tabled here following yesterday’s proceedings, can it be explained who gave all this authority for the withdrawal of the security detail, subjecting Sen. Muthama to obvious risk? We would like to know so that we can attribute responsibility to the individual person who did this.

November 27, 2013 SENATE REPORTS

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I think my friend, the Senator for Migori is a very forgetful person because when he rose to speak about this issue we had already set up a programme which we wanted to work on. I wanted us to address the agenda that we had. If he can recall, at the end, this matter was discussed and I personally told the Commissioner of Police that if he is not aware, his deputies are not aware and everybody else is not aware, then that is not acceptable. Somebody should take the blame and

November 27, 2013 SENATE REPORTS

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, there is really nothing to apologize for. If you read the HANSARD of that day, what the Chairman would have done is to confirm that he is actually not denying this House information. That is all I said.

Very well. We need to close this matter.

November 27, 2013 SENATE REPORTS

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, a good idea is good but a better idea is better. I like what the Sen. G.G. Kariuki has said, that this matter be referred to the Committee irrespective of whether it arose in yesterday’s proceedings. It should go to the Committee so that it can be fully dealt with and then a report be made to the House.

Now that you are all Members of that Committee, do you think one week is enough for you or you need more time?

Two weeks, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I therefore order that the Committee on National Security and Foreign Relations should go back and look at the questions before them together with the report of yesterday and give a comprehensive answer to the House in two weeks’ time. In the meantime, I also need to remind all of us that the Committee should give notice to any other interested party,, particularly Sen. Muthama if he is not a Member of the Committee, so that all these questions are completed within the Committee. I really think that that is the best opportunity to ask for comprehensive answers from the relevant officers and then table the report before the House.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I think my friend, the Senator for Migori is a very forgetful person because when he rose to speak about this issue we had already set up a programme which we wanted to work on. I wanted us to address the agenda that we had. If he can recall, at the end, this matter was discussed and I personally told the Commissioner of Police that if he is not aware, his deputies are not aware and everybody else is not aware, then that is not acceptable. Somebody should take the blame and

November 27, 2013 SENATE REPORTS

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, there is really nothing to apologize for. If you read the HANSARD of that day, what the Chairman would have done is to confirm that he is actually not denying this House information. That is all I said.

Very well. We need to close this matter.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to seek for a different Statement. Do I proceed or wait?

You will have to wait. Sen. Orengo!

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, a good idea is good but a better idea is better. I like what the Sen. G.G. Kariuki has said, that this matter be referred to the Committee irrespective of whether it arose in yesterday’s proceedings. It should go to the Committee so that it can be fully dealt with and then a report be made to the House.

Now that you are all Members of that Committee, do you think one week is enough for you or you need more time?

Two weeks, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I therefore order that the Committee on National Security and Foreign Relations should go back and look at the questions before them together with the report of yesterday and give a comprehensive answer to the House in two weeks’ time. In the meantime, I also need to remind all of us that the Committee should give notice to any other interested party,, particularly Sen. Muthama if he is not a Member of the Committee, so that all these questions are completed within the Committee. I really think that that is the best opportunity to ask for comprehensive answers from the relevant officers and then table the report before the House.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I am rising to inquire how long the Chairman of the Departmental Committee on Agriculture, Land and Natural Resources will take to come and respond to the Statement I sought and you directed that a comprehensive and detailed answer be brought to the House. I sought for that Statement two months ago. It relates to the Statement I sought about the promised 1 million acres of land to be put aside for irrigation. I wanted to know the portion of the share that is going to every county because there is a lot of hunger in every county and if the national Government is going to do irrigation, we must divide the 1 million acres amongst the 47 counties.

November 27, 2013 SENATE REPORTS

No, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Very well! Since the Chairman and the Vice Chairperson are not in the House---

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. The Chairs of the Committees are supposed to be the Ministers in this House to give us answers of whatever questions that we ask. They are treating this House very casually. Usually, the Chairpersons of Committees are not present in the House when we seek for answers to the Statements. Right now, there is nobody who can give us an assurance as to when this Statement will be given. I think something needs to be done by the Chair to make sure that from the Senate Majority Leader downwards, all the time we must have at least four of them present in the House. If they continue treating this House the way they are doing, it appears that we are not serious.

I agree with Sen. G.G. Kariuki. It is important that both the leadership of the House, who are the Senate Majority Leader and the Senate Minority Leader have a clear time table of the business of the House and be able to track who should be where and when. I will give a comprehensive ruling on Tuesday next week as to the way forward on this matter. In the meantime, every Committee is reminded that they should take the business of the House seriously.

Before we go to the next order, as earlier ruled by the Speaker in order No.12, it was the Mover who was on the Floor and since the Mover was not present, the Motion was deferred to the next sitting. For the Motion on Order No.14 the Mover has requested that the Motion be deferred to another date.