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Wednesday, 18th September, 2013

Order, hon. Senators! I am informed we have a quorum. Let us proceed.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to lay the following report on the Table of the House today, Wednesday, 18th September, 2013:

The County Budget Implementation Review Report for the Fourth Quarter of the Financial Year 2012/2013.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, this Report was presented to the Senate pursuant to Article 228 (6) of the Constitution.

Chairman, Committee on Finance, Commerce and Economic Affairs, I thought you were to give notice of a Motion. There was also another one by the Senate Majority Leader.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I thought so but the notices of the Motions are not ready yet from the Clerks.

Sorry, what did you say?

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Mr. Speaker, Sir, the notices for the Motions are not yet ready. So, we are not able to move them. Let me consult.

Sen. Murkomen!

Mr. Speaker, Sir, on behalf of the Senate Majority Leader, I beg to give notice of the following Motion:-

THAT, pursuant to the provisions of Standing Orders No. 175 (3) and 177 (3) , the Senate approves the nomination by the Rules and Business Committee of Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Junior to replace Sen. Kanainza Daisy Nyongesa in the Sessional Committee on Implementation.

Let us now move on to Order No.8

Mr. Speaker, Sir, again, on behalf of the Senate Majority Leader, I beg to move the following Motion:-

THAT, pursuant to the provisions of Standing Orders No. 175 (3) and 177 (3) , the Senate approves the nomination by the Rules and Business Committee of Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Junior to replace Sen. James Orengo in the Standing Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to ask Sen. Wako to second the Motion. I have nothing to add.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I wish to second this Motion wholeheartedly. I am privileged to be the Chair of the Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights. When the Committee was constituted, the late Mutula Kilonzo was a member. Unfortunately, he passed away just after the Committee was constituted. Thereafter, I was put in a very difficult position to find out whether I should continue to stand for Chairmanship of the Committee because the membership of ODM had been reduced to three and Jubilee was five. We had agreed with the late Mutula Kilonzo that he would support me as Chair. I was about to give up. But fortunately, I was selected by consensus.

I really want to welcome Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Junior as a suitable replacement for this particular committee. We know what he is made of.

Surely, Sen. Wako, if your fears were allayed, would you not want to be grateful to those who made your fears disappear?

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Mr. Speaker, Sir, I was coming to that. But I wanted to focus on Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Junior, who is joining this Committee. We all know his legal credentials in his own right. It may very well be that the blood of the late Mutula Kilonzo runs in his veins, but he has proved himself in litigation and on issues relating to law, not just here before the High Court in Nairobi, but I know he has ably represented other people in the East African Court of Justice. He more than proved himself also in the by-election where he garnered even more votes than his father. So, I am very pleased that he has now been nominated to be a member of this Committee.

May I, at this point, say that Sen. Orengo became a member of the Committee temporarily. We knew that if either Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Junior or his sister Kethi were elected, Sen. Orengo was just warming up that seat for them. I am glad it has come to pass that, at least, CORD won that seat. Therefore, the seat remains with Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Junior in this particular committee.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, of course, in the Committee, we have been working well with other members. We do not know parties; we know that we are the Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights, applying our legal minds to the issues that confront us. We do not think about CORD or whatever party we represent. I know Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr has a legal brain to come and continue that tradition of working on many issues that confront this particular Senate.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, with those remarks, I beg to second.

Order, hon. Senators! Today, we have seen the reversal of events. Usually, it is the Mover who talks and the Seconder can even nod. Today, the Seconder has done more of the moving than the Mover but since they have not contravened any Standing Order, we will proceed.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to strongly support this Motion. As I do so, allow me from the outset to take this opportunity to convey my congratulations to Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Junior on his election as the Senator for Makueni County. When the elections took place, I was away on official duty. When he was sworn-in, I was not here. Therefore, I want to take this opportunity to congratulate him.

This is the right move. These are very brilliant brains that we are putting in the Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights. I am sure that he will probably do better than the old chip itself. I have a lot of confidence in Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Junior. He once represented me at the High Court in a case where I was accused of incitement during the 2005 Referendum, a case that I was sure that we were going to win. But my good friend,

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Mr. Speaker, Sir, I also rise to support the Motion. We know the Senator is a very capable and diligent lawyer. This will be an opportunity to get some new blood to the Committee. Some of our lawyers are not exactly dinosaurs, but they are analog and it is time we got some digital team to the Committee. I am sure he will add a lot of value to the Committee.

I support.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for also giving me the chance to contribute towards the support of our friend and colleague, Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Junior, to succeed Sen. Nyongesa as a member. Much as we support that move---

Order, Sen. Karaba. You are referring to a Motion whose notice was given this afternoon. The one on the Order Paper is different. Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Junior is replacing Sen. Orengo in the Legal Affairs and Human Rights Committee. That is the Motion.

Thank you for that correction, Mr. Speaker, Sir. It is because it seems he is replacing quite a number of people. I do not know what will happen here with this issue of replacements.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I stand to support this Motion. I am privileged to be the Vice-Chair of the Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights. I want to take this opportunity to welcome Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Junior to our Committee.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, this Committee has a lot of work to undertake. We have the impeding discussions on the constitutional review. The Committee is working on a Miscellaneous (Amendment) Bill that will try to correct a lot of the legislations that were passed in the last Parliament, to try and have them conform to the current Constitution and devolution. The credentials of Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Junior will be very helpful to us, as a Committee. Therefore, as mentioned by the Chair of the Committee, Sen. Wako, we have always worked in a bi-partisan manner. I am sure that as Sen. Mutula Kilonzo

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Mr. Speaker, Sir, as I congratulate Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr for being elected to this House, I also support his appointment to this Committee. However, I am a bit reluctant to accept the sentiments of the Attorney-General Emeritus that one has to be a lawyer to serve in this Committee. Then we should kick out all lawyers from the other committees where they are not professionals.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I support.

Asante, Bw. Spika. Kwanza, ningependa kumpongeza wakili Seneta Mutula Kilonzo Junior kwa ushindi wake katika uchaguzi mdogo. Ushindi wake ulikuwa wa kukamilika na kuthibitisha ya kwamba ni wakili na mtetezi ambaye watu wa Kaunti ya Makueni walikuwa wamejitolea kumpa nafasi ili aweze kuwahudumia.

Bw. Spika, namfahamu Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Junior kama wakili mwenzangu ijapokuwa nimepita viwango kadha nikwa jaji na hatimaye kuweza kustaafu. Kama wakili, kuna nyakati amekuwa mbele yangu nikiwa jaji na nimeona kwamba amekamilika kiwakili.

Ikiwa Maseneta hawa wawili wamesikizana na Hoja hii imefika mbele ya Seneti, hatuna budi ila kuiunga mkono ili Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Junior aweze kuutumia ujuzi wake wa uwakili kuendeleza Kamati hii.

Bw. Spika, kwa hayo machache, naunga mkono.

Let us have the last two contributors to this Motion; Sen. (Prof) Anyang’-Nyong’o and lastly, the Senator from Mombasa County.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I stand to support this Motion and also to go on record that when the young Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Junior was soundly elected by the people of Makueni County, I was there. Sen. Orengo, the Senator for Siaya County, promised the people of Makueni that when the young Senator takes the seat of his late father, that Sen. Orengo will honour his presence in the House and the people of Makueni by quitting his seat in this particular committee in his favor. I must say that Sen. Orengo has lived up to his word. We are grateful that Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Junior is taking this seat.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, having said that, and since my friend, Sen. Billo, mentioned the word “digital” here, I would say that let us not just pay homage to the word “digital” without living the concept “digital”. In that regard, there is something that is happening in this nation and in the whole world which should be taken very seriously in this highly digitalized world. I hope this particular Committee will seize it. That is in regard to the laws relating to the social media. It is an extremely important issue particularly when it comes to bringing up a proper democratic political culture in this nation, inculcating proper values in our young ones and ensuring that the digital culture in the social media is not exploited to undermine social values and the building of a democratic society.

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Asante, Bw. Spika, kwa kunipa fursa hii ili niunge mkono pendekezo hili la kumleta Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Junior katika Kamati ya Maswala ya Kisheria na Haki za Kibinadamu.

Bw. Spika, Kamati hii ni ya watu wazito. Mwenyekiti, Sen. Amos Wako, alikuwa Mkuu wa Sheria kwa karibu miaka 20. Naibu wake ni kijana ambaye anacheza mpira - ni chipukizi ambaye anacheza namba ya mbele na nyuma. Seneta Sang, hachoki akicheza mpira.

An

Unachezea wapi?

Mimi ni goal keeper! Kazi yangu ni kuhakikisha Kamati hii haivuji, ikivuja mimi niko hapo kunyaka. Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Junior, ukija, unakuja katika miamba ya kisheria. Tunakukaribisha kwa kuleta mwongozo. Nilikuwa nikishirikiana na Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Junior tulipokuwa katika Tume ya Haki za Kibinadamu. Ametuwakilisha katika East African Court of Justice. Niko na imani kubwa naye.

Ndungu yetu Sen. Billow amesema huu ni wakati wa “digital”, ukiangalia---

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

What is it, Sen. Billow?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, is it in order for the young hon. Senator from Mombasa County to mix two languages at the same time? He should use the Swahili word for “digital”.

Bw. Spika, nawaona hapa Maseneta wa kaunti za Kwale, Migori, Kilifi na Taita-Taveta. Pengine wanaweza nieleza, hili neno “digitali” kwa lugha ya Kiswahili ni nini?

Hon. Senators: Digitali!

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Bw. Spika, cha kuhuzunisha ni kwamba mfuasi mkubwa wa chama cha Jubilee, Seneta Billow, hajui “digital” kwa Kiswahili ni nini. Alikuwa akiwambia nini watu wa Kaunti ya Mandera?

Bw. Spika, kwa kumalizia, ningependa kumkaribisha Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Junior. Ukingalia Seneta Wako, Sang na mimi tuko na Ipad. Kwa hivyo, mambo ni digital. Na wewe pia nakuona unayo. Hebu iinue Bw. Spika aione.

Order, Sen. Hassan! You know what to do when you are addressing the House. While contributing to this Motion, you were addressing specific Senators. Secondly, when you were asked whether there is a translation for the word “digital” in Kiswahili, you started mentioning the Swahili speaking Senators from the “Swahili nation”. So, I was wondering whether you are taking a roll call or otherwise. I am yet to come across a situation where the one on the Floor seeks information from the others. It is usually the case that those who are listening to you are the ones who would wish to give you information. Those are some serious observations that you need to take into account.

Most obliged, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

That brings us to the end of that Motion. It is a procedural Motion but it will also subscribe to the normal provisions. If the Mover now feels sufficiently ready to reply---

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am sufficiently convinced that Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Junior fits in the listed group of Senators who are members of the Legal Affairs Committee. He is a peer to the likes of Sen. Hassan led by the Senior Counsel, Sen. Wako.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Junior is a man whom I admired many times when he was practicing law. In my earlier days, I would go to court and be proud of his submissions. I think the Senate and the Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights is going to benefit a great deal. I used to think that he was an elitist and I was wondering whether somebody was pushing him to politics. I read the other day in the newspapers where some theorists were trying to advice the Senate Majority Leader and myself of how to do politics. Those who were writing those articles are men and women who have tried elections several times and have not won.

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Hon. Senators, this Motion is being deferred at the request of the Mover, so we will move to the next Order.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I must say that I have been caught by surprise because I had not come with my notes for moving the Motion but nevertheless, I will rise to the occasion and say something.

To me ,this Motion is a very important Motion because it---

Order, Sen. Wako! You need to move the Motion as it appears on the Order Paper, then you can contribute.

I have to read?

Yes; you have to read it.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I know that I have to read but I think I will propose to the Committee to amend these Standing Orders; that Senators know how to read---

Order, Sen. Wako! I thought there was a reference of your long tenure in excess of two decades. You may make recommendations but as long as they have not been approved, they are not binding. So, abide by what is provided for now.

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Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to support this Motion due to its importance. I would like to reiterate an issue that Sen. Wako pointed out. Right from the colonial times, human rights development issues, especially matters of administration, were always taken seriously by the national Government. Therefore, the Kenya Institute of Administration stands out as such an institution. We will also remember that during that time, we also had regional training in states. I remember that in my own county of Kisumu, we had a Government Training Institute (GTI) at Maseno which was specifically for training in matters of Administration Management. Later, most of these institutions were taken up by the universities and the training institute in Maseno became Maseno University. I am quite sure that this phenomenon occurred in other counties as well.

I would like to point out that in supporting this Motion there is no contradiction in having a county government training institute supported by the national Government. At the same time, there is no contradiction in counties under this national training institute making arrangements for human resource development with other institutions within the counties particularly the universities and opening up training institutes within the universities specifically geared towards developing human resources for county management and administration. This is a common practice in many countries particularly in the US. You may find that in every state, there is a university that is contracted by the state to open up a specialized institute for purposes of human resources development for that state. This is a practice that could be encouraged and nurtured by the county governments training institutes so that the issue of human resources development does not become a problem in counties.

Referring to the Motion, I would like to quote from it extensively, especially one particular part which is very important. It says among other things;

“further noting that the Government established a training institute for civil servants in 1956 to impart relevant knowledge, skills, attitudes, leadership and management competencies that are required for efficient and effective service delivery--- ;”

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Bw. Spika, asante, kwa kunipa nafasi hii ili nimuunge mwenzangu katika pendekezo ambalo amelitoa kwa Seneti hii kupitia Hoja hii. Yeye mwenyewe kwa fikira zake ameangalia na kunukuu Kipengele cha Kwanza cha Katiba ya Kenya, mstari wa nne, Kipengele cha Sita, mstari wa pili na pia kibandikizo cha Katiba, Sura ya Sita na Kipengele cha 15, mstari wa pili.

Bw. Spika, hili sio wazo lake tu bali ni la Kikatiba. Wale watakaopewa kazi hiyo wanafaa wawe wameelimika ya kutosha kwa utawala wa mgambo. Ni kweli kabisa kwamba Katiba mpya imetoa sehemu mbili tu za utawala, Serikali ya taifa na serikali za ugatuzi. Huenda mawazo ya elimu ambayo watawala wetu wanayo wakati huu hayatoshi. Ni lazima Serikali ya Jubilee iliyopo sasa ielewe na kukubali kwamba sehemu za utawala wa nchi hii ni mbili tu Kikatiba, ingawa wameweka kibandikizo ambacho hakikubaliki kikatiba, kuwatafutia kazi tu wale waliokuwa wakuu wa mikoa wakati huo. Hatukubaliani na hilo wazo lao. Tuna sehemu mbili tu za Serikali kulingana na Katiba.

Bw. Spika, kwa hivyo, pendekezo la mwenzangu juu ya hii, haitoi nafasi ya mawazo ya kufundisha wale wametunukiwa utawala kwa hiyo sehemu bandia ya tatu. Ni sehemu mbili tu na hivyo ndivyo Katiba inasema. Tukubali kwamba hili ni wazo ambalo lilikuja miaka 58 zilizopita. Wakati huo tulikuwa na kituo kimoja cha kufundisha utawala, yaani, KIA. Bunge hili ilipitisha Hoja hapo awali kwamba tuwe na chuo kikuu kwa kila makao makuu ya kaunti. Mwenye Hoja hiyo anafaa kufikiria kama ingekuwa vizuri kugeuza na kusema kwamba kila chuo kikuu ambacho kitaidhinishwa kiwe na sehemu ya kufundisha mawazo haya ya utawala mpya, ili Hoja hii ambayo imependekezwa na Sen. Wako iingie. Itakuwa jambo la manufaa, kheri na haki kama tunapoanzisha vyuo vikuu hivi tuwe na sehemu ambazo zimeundwa kwa ajili ya

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Mimi nilikuwa nafikiri kuwa akicheka anafurahia vile unachangia Hoja hii.

Waheshimiwa Maseneta, Sen.

Machage anaomba asikilizwe. Hata kama umefurahia unaweza tu kutabasamu. Sio lazima ucheke.

Endelea, Sen.

Machage.

Bw. Spika, naunga mkono Hoja hii kwa dhati.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The distinguished Senator for Busia was amused at the mastery of Kiswahili by

“What is kibandikizo?” I told him that “kibandikizo” means “schedule.” That is why he was laughing boisterously.

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Thank you very much, Mr. Temporary Speaker, for the opportunity to contribute to this important Motion. I believe that it is also one that is well thought out and clearly defined. From the outset even before I talk about this particular Motion, I think it is important for us to ask ourselves as the Senate where these Motions go, once we finish contributing to them. Ideally, the Committee on Implementation should actually be following to ensure that what we are saying in this House reaches the respective Ministries and authorities for implementation. On a couple of occasions, I have met Cabinet Secretaries and I have asked them what they are doing about particular Motions that were passed in the Senate and inevitably almost without exception, they have all said: “Which Motion are you talking about?’. They have not seen the Motions. Therefore

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Or as Sen. Wetangula has proposed in the past, just go and purchase a degree at your peril.

Sen. Hassan Omar Hassan.

Asante sana, Bw. Spika wa Muda. Baadhi yetu tumeamua katika zamu hii tuendeleze Lugha ya Kiswahili ili tuijenge.

Mwanzo kabisa nimesimama hapa kuunga Hoja hii mkono ambayo imeletwa na Seneta wa Busia. Yeye ni Mwenyekiti wa Kamati yetu ya Legal Affairs and Human Rights. Kuna watu walisema wakati wa kupigania Katiba mpya kwamba wao wangepiga “ndio.” Walipoulizwa kwa nini wanaipigia Katiba “ndio,” wakasema ni kwa vile Sen. Wetangula ameisoma na akasema ni sawa. Wakati huu tuna Hoja ambayo imewasilishwa hapa na Sen. Wako. Hoja hii ninaiunga mkono kwa sababu ni well though through kama vile Sen. Kagwe alivyotamka.

Jambo la pili, Bw. Spika wa Muda, sisi hapa Kenya tumezoea kazi za ukarabati katika kila kitu. Tunajifanya sisi tunajua kila kitu zaidi kuliko watu wengine. Sijui kama hata wewe, Mwenyekiti, ni mmoja wao? Ukiharibikiwa na mfereji wa maji, unaufungua wewe mwenyewe. Wewe unakuwa ni fundi wa mifereji ya maji. Ukiharibikiwa na stima nyumbani, unaitengeza ile swichi wewe mwenyewe. Mara nyingi watu wetu wamekufa kutokana na mshituko wa umeme. Tukiuliza kilicho sababisha kifo, tunaambiwa alifungua soketi ya stima bila kujua ina waya tofautitofauti kama vile earth na live. Anakufa ovyo kwa sababu hataki kumpa kazi fundi wa stima Kshs200.

Kwa hivyo, huwezi ukawa unajua kila kitu. Kila kazi ina fundi wake. Unaweza kuona hii kazi ya kuweka hivi vitambaa vya “Senate Majority Leader” labda ni kazi ya

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Hoja ya nidhamu, Bw. Spika wa Muda.

Ni nini Seneta wa Nairobi?

Bw. Spika wa Muda, ningeomba Seneta wa Mombasa aondoe neon “wizi” na kutumia neno la kisawa.

Bw. Spika wa Muda, nilisema kwamba tukiwalipa watu mapato duni, watakuwa wanaendeleza sera za wizi. Sikuita mtu mwizi.

Hiyo ni sawa! Endelea, Sen. Hassan.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, first and foremost, I wish to thank my colleague Senator for bringing this Motion. Right from the onset, I want to state that I support it. The building of capacity for development of this country is a very urgent matter. It is more urgent now that we are beginning with counties so that we address the issue of capacity building by building institutions. There is no need to build structures. We have no need for buildings in this case. We need to move very quickly and establish a network in which we can build capacity. The first thing that we need to do is to clean up and modernise curriculums in which we would want to develop and build capacity with the view of looking at the future. We want a curriculum that would bring us personnel that have the capacity to work even in 2050. So, curriculum development is, perhaps, one of the first things that we would need to do in terms of capacity building.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the Committee on Education, Information and Technology had the opportunity of meeting all the Ministers of Education in all the counties. We had firsthand experience of what capacity would do. We met these Ministers and officials from the Teachers Service Commission (TSC) . It became apparent that we were the ones who were providing the know-how in terms of capacity building. I must say that, at the end of that seminar, the teachers in the counties, Ministers for Education in counties felt much better. Most of them had already been given the function and the money. However, they were unable to employ teachers for Early Childhood Development (ECDE) because they lacked the capacity. They lacked knowledge on when they would do that and what were the consequences. These are the small things that can be learnt if we had an institution for building the capacity.

In the matter of capacity, it is not only the workers for the public service that need to be enhanced in terms of capacity. I even think that politicians need to be given some capacity in the way in which we think so that we can move away from some hard-line positions in our political thinking that directly affect development. So, I should expect

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Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, thank you for giving me this opportunity so that I can support this Motion. This is a very good Motion brought by the leader of delegation from Busia. This Motion wants to build capacities in the counties. There is no way we can have good infrastructure even if we have resources, unless the men and women who are going to implement those services are well trained and have appropriate skills that can enable them do their jobs right. Therefore, we need to support the notion that is being proposed here that we should have the necessary training colleges in every county to the level of the Kenya Institute of Management that can train our civil service.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, as you are aware, we have had quite a number of issues in the counties where many members of staff have been striking. They are striking because some governors are alleging that they are bloated and, therefore, should be fired. This is a notion that I do not support. These are all Kenyans and cannot just be thrown away like that. There has to be away in which our civil service can be maintained in the counties. This can be done by way of having a proper job evaluation and a necessary skills audit. This is the only way we can know a number of staff required in the counties. We cannot just wake one morning and say that we have over 12,000 workers and we need to send them away. In these hard times when the cost of living has doubled, we cannot take such a drastic measure. We all know in the last two weeks, we were buying milk at Kshs45. Today, it is being sold at Kshs65. So, where do we expect these staff to go?

Therefore, we need to ensure that we have proper training colleges that can give the necessary skills to our civil service. If I were the Senator for Busia, I would add that

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Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I also stand to support the Motion. I believe that one of the things that people need in governance is training. It is not just for those who are now in the county governments, but for everybody who works for the government. Everybody needs to go back and retrain because of new technologies and what is happening in the world. I believe that for the county governments to move and for the national government to support the counties, there is need for capacity building. It is very important to, first of all, appreciate that we need to immediately think of how we can support those who are in the county governments, using the existing institutions. The governors should come up with ways of facilitating the existing universities in the counties so that they can train their staff instead of using a lot of money going abroad. It is time to relook at their budgets and allocate money for training. I remember that most counties do not even have drafters. It is important to understand that the training we are looking at as the Senate is the training that will assist everyone within the county so that they are able to deliver what the citizens are waiting for.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, it is very sad that we sit here and talk about training and yet even ourselves would hate to go through the same. I urge our colleagues from the National Assembly and the Senate to retrain. There are many online programmes that one can do. Therefore, do one of them and get good papers so that when you are vetting a person, you have an understanding of various issues. Training enables you to understand how to deal with people. Training will enable one to understand despite the level of education. We have some who are very educated, but cannot understand people. Training is there to help us understand others and how to work with others in a team.

As we build capacity at the county level, we must know that technology is there. We believe that they are supposed to use computers and other accessories. We had solutions at the national government that have been devolved and they also need to use that. They need the training to understand and learn how to use those solutions.

The new Constitution brings in a new dispensation. Therefore, anyone who works in the public service must understand it. If they do not change their attitudes, even if we offer them training, it will be difficult for them to change. One of the challenges in the Government institutions is that there is a bad attitude. Someone comes in the morning with an attitude. If he feels like serving people that day, so be it. Apart from training, we also need to look at the remuneration of these people. We want to have a team that will work without complaining.

Attitude is one issue that we must tackle. This is all over in our institutions. It has gone to our health sector where everybody works with an attitude. Even the jobs we thought were a calling for some people have really changed. Everybody is now looking at how they can get rich quickly. We are also doing very badly in terms of research at the university. If you want, for example, to integrate those who used to work at the county councils, you must find a way of changing their attitudes. I wish the governors would

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Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker. I stand to support this Motion which is already belated. It should have come immediately after we embarked on devolution. Nevertheless, it is very important. The training is an aspect that will make or break county governments. Looking at the way it is being handled at the moment, you will see that it is very unsatisfactory. Even the training that was made for the District Focus for Rural Development (DFRD) was more thorough because at every level, starting with Ministers, Permanent Secretaries and others, officers had to go to the Kenya Institute of Administration (KIA) . Trainers were trained up to the lowest level of an assistant chief. At that time, we did not have anything like the devolution that we are talking about here. The Transition Authority (TA) has really let us down on this one. It is high time they upped their efforts. The training we are talking about is with regard to imparting managerial skills in areas like Public Finance and Management, Communication Skills and ICT. We should take the ICT sector to the counties.

During the recess, I had an opportunity to interact with the County Assembly Members of Trans Nzoia. One of the challenges they are facing is on training. They felt that they were unprepared to handle the responsibility that they were given. We talked about their education level being low, but I could tell from their faces and expressions that they were eager to learn so as to perform. However, there is no tailored training for them. Most of them have not read the Constitution and do not even have copies of it.

We have the Public Finance Management Act and the code of regulations. We know that county assembly members were sourced from different sectors. Some were farmers, accountants, teachers and so on. Some governors have not worked in government to understand how the bureaucracy of government works. Without training, we are setting them up for failure. We are also contravening the laws we have put in

September 18, 2013 SENATE DEBATES Disclaimer:

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, for giving me this opportunity to contribute to this very important Motion by the distinguished Senator, Sen. Wako. This is a timely Motion, but I will add a rejoinder, as Sen. Kagwe mentioned, that we hope that the Committee on Implementation will follow up on these Motions and ensure that they are implemented. I am happy that you are the Chair of this Committee. I know that you also know that it is important and timely.

Just to pick up from what we said yesterday, each county should have its own strategic plan and ensure that in the next five years there are things we will look at and see how they have improved the lives of people and services. We may want to have the

September 18, 2013 SENATE DEBATES Disclaimer:

September 18, 2013 SENATE DEBATES Disclaimer:

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for this opportunity to also contribute to the good Motion that has been brought by Sen. Wako.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, first, training is very key to the people concerned. This is because we want to achieve the goal that is in our Constitution. Secondly, we are working towards the achievement of devolution and the people concerned with implementation are found at the county level. The executive members and staff who help them in doing this need to get the relevant skills and knowledge that will enable them take up their job so well, for us to enjoy the fruits of devolution. This will enable them get skills that are related to their job description. At the end of it, they will get good results.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, lastly, this training will benefit, not only those who want to get these skills, but also people in our counties who have this profession. I know that it will create jobs for our people.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to support.

I now call upon the Mover to reply.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity to reply.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, first of all, I want to thank each and every person who has contributed to this Motion and supported it. I could see that the support was not artificial. It was support which said: This is long overdue.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, just touching on a few points that were raised. Yes, this type of institute should not necessarily be based in Nairobi, but in any other place. It can have branches in various places. But from what we have said here, it appears that we cannot wait until a building structure has been put up, professors hired and curriculum agreed upon to start training. I think that the first and immediate issue to me is that the curriculum for the training must be agreed upon immediately. The Government can, as a start, encourage the universities in various regions to set up independent training institutes for county governments, which will now train according to the agreed standards.

We cannot afford to wait. As somebody has said, sub-county, ward and village administrators are being hired. I do not know what their counterparts in the national Government, starting with the chiefs, sub-chiefs, deputy county commissioners, are going to do. But those ones are trained. The ones for the counties may not necessarily have been trained and, therefore, there will already be an imbalance as far as the delivery of services is concerned. There may be also a potential conflict. I hope that the Committee of Prof. Anyang’-Nyong’o, which has been asked to look into this matter, will look at it very urgently, so that we can have a harmonized structure below the county government.

September 18, 2013 SENATE DEBATES Disclaimer:

September 18, 2013 SENATE DEBATES Disclaimer:

Hon. Senators, it is true that this Motion, clearly from the provisions cited in the Constitution, in Articles 1, 6 and 15, and the content in terms of building the capacity of county governments, giving them a framework for capacity building, concerns counties. Consequently, as per the Constitution, this Motion will require that we have, at least, 24 Senators to vote for it to succeed. Considering that the Motion has had overwhelming contribution from the Senators, it is only fair that I accede to the request by the Senate Minority Leader, that we defer the voting of this Motion to next week on 25th September, 2013, at 3.00 p.m., so that we can vote for it together with the other Motions.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I just want to seek directions. I accept your ruling about Wednesday, next week, at 3.00 p.m. I think that yesterday’s Motion, again, was postponed to Wednesday, next week, at 3.00 p.m. It means that Wednesday, next week, at 3.00 p.m. is going to be a very important day for voting. Now I think we know that there could be many Senators who are out of the country. They are at The Hague and other places. Would it be in order for them somehow to be requested to give some necessary authority to some Senators here to vote on their behalf because we do not want those counties to miss out on this important vote? I agree we do not have the 24 votes that are required to pass a Motion.

The Senate Minority Leader (Sen. Wetangula) : On a point of order Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. This relates to what the distinguished Senator for Busia has requested the Chair to do which the Chair has no capacity to. The delegation to any Member of this House to vote is not predicated on the direction of the Chair. It is predicated on the convenience of the conduct of any particular delegation. There are some heads of delegations who instinctively may delegate, but others who selfishly may decide not to delegate and they are absolutely right in law under the Constitution and in fact. So, the Chair would be making an order incapable of obedience if it was to venture into that direction.

I think Sen. Wako knows the Constitution very well. He is a seasoned lawyer, senior counsel and part of the team that drafted the Constitution. In fact, he has even one of the drafts named after him. You know very well that delegation applies to situations where there are members of delegation coming from the same county. So, it is not possible, first of all, to accede to that request.

On a point of order Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. This relates to what the distinguished Senator for Busia has requested the Chair to do which the Chair has no capacity to. The delegation to any Member of this House to vote is not predicated on the direction of the Chair. It is predicated on the convenience of the conduct of any particular delegation. There are some heads of delegations who instinctively may delegate, but others who selfishly may decide not to delegate and they are absolutely right in law under the Constitution and in fact. So, the Chair would be making an order incapable of obedience if it was to venture into that direction.

I think Sen. Wako knows the Constitution very well. He is a seasoned lawyer, senior counsel and part of the team that drafted the Constitution. In fact, he has even one of the drafts named after him. You know very well that delegation applies to situations where there are members of delegation coming from the same county. So, it is not possible, first of all, to accede to that request.

September 18, 2013 SENATE DEBATES Disclaimer:

Hon. Senators, there being no other business, the House stands adjourned until tomorrow, Thursday, 19th September, 2013 at