Wednesday, 24th July 2024

I direct that the Bell be rung for 10 minutes.

I know the 10 minutes are over, but we shall ring the Bell for a further five minutes.

Hon. Members, I can confirm that we now have quorum. The Bell can be stopped so that we proceed.

Order, Hon. Members.

The Leader of the Majority Party.

Thank you very much, Hon. Temporary Speaker.

On behalf of the Leader of the Majority Party, I beg to lay the following Papers on the Table:

Is Hon. Mishi Mboko in?

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I beg to lay the following Paper on the Table:

The Annual Report of the Parliamentary Service Commission for the Financial Year 2022/2023.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker.

Duly noted.

We have the Member for Tiaty, Hon. William Kamket.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. Pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order 42g, I would like to ask the Teachers Service Commission (TSC) the following:

Thank you. Hon. Gonzi Rai go ahead. Sorry. Just take your seat for a moment. The Question by the Member for Tiaty, will go to the

Departmental Committee on Education and Research. I do not know whether Hon. Melly is here? Okay, Hon. Malulu.

The Chairperson will invite the Principal Secretary next week. I believe after that we will bring a report to the House. Thank you.

This Question is directed to TSC not the Principal Secretary (PS) .

Sorry. He will invite the Chief Executive Officer (CEO) of TSC.

Okay. Hon. Makali.

Thank you very much, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I want to say something in relation to the Question which Hon. Kamket has forwarded to the Departmental Committee on Education and Research. This matter cuts across the whole county and not just the arid and semi-arid areas. It is a national problem. I wish the Departmental Committee on Education and Research takes it up urgently with TSC. This matter is affecting many teachers and has demoralised them.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker.

Thank you. Hon. Gonzi Rai.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order 44 (2) (c) , I rise to request for a Statement from the Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Blue Economy, Water and Irrigation regarding the status on implementation of Mwache Dam Project.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, the Mwache Dam Development Project which is located on the Mwache River in Kwale County is a crucial development project envisioned to benefit millions of Kenyans in the coastal region and boost agricultural activity in the surrounding areas. Despite its importance, the implementation of the project has been inordinately delayed. His Excellency the President recently inaugurated its construction, marking the beginning of its long-awaited implementation in 2023.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, it is against this background that I seek a Statement from the Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Blue Economy, Water and Irrigation on the following:

Thank you. The request for Statement will go to the Departmental Committee on Blue Economy, Water and Irrigation. I saw Hon. Kangogo sometime earlier. Hon. Dorothy are you a Member of that Committee?

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I can see the Chairperson is not around. I am a Member of that Committee. I will pass that information and promise to give a reply in two weeks’ time.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker.

Thank you.

Hon. Gonzi Rai, you just…

Hon. Temporary Speaker, this matter is very urgent. As at now, the works at Mwache Dam have stopped. Let them give timelines so that the works can continue.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker.

Hon. Dorothy inform Hon. Kangogo on the urgency of this matter. I am sure Hon. Gonzi Rai can engage him as he waits for formal engagement at the Committee level.

Thank you, I stand guided. I want to assure the Member that this will be looked into.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker.

Hon. Chepkonga.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I beg to move the following Procedural Motion:

THAT, this House resolves to exempt the business appearing as Order No.11 in today's Order Paper from the provisions of Standing Order 40 (3) , being a Wednesday morning, a day allocated for Business not sponsored by the Majority or Minority Party, or business sponsored by a committee. The general import of this Motion, without anticipating debate on Standing Order No.11, is to seek to have that Order be discussed this morning as a consequence of the rejection of the Finance Bill. We need to discuss the Supplementary Estimates so that we align Government’s expenditure to the Budget and monies collected by Kenya Revenue Authority (KRA) . So, this is

just to allow the House to debate the Supplementary Estimates that will be moved under Order No.11. I urge Hon. Members to support this because it is purely a Procedural Motion.

I request Hon. Robert Pukose to second.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I beg to second the Procedural Motion to exempt the business appearing as Order No.11 from the provisions of Standing Order 40 (3) being a Wednesday morning, a day allocated for business sponsored by the Majority Party or Minority Party or a committee.

Thank you.

Hon. Oundo. Hon. (Dr) Ojiambo Oundo (Funyula ODM) . Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker for giving me this opportunity to comment.

In essence, I do not oppose the Motion, but obviously, like every Kenyan will ask: What is the hurry? The Bill is already running, signed, enacted and is operational. All that we need to do is to rationalise the Budget to fit the expected revenue. We have not even concluded the Presidential Memorandum on the Finance Bill. So, I do not know why we are anticipating debate. What if Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose is able to marshal two-thirds majority to defeat the President’s Memorandum? Where would that leave us under such a circumstance?

Procedurally, the orderly way to do things would have been to deal with the President’s Memorandum on the Finance Bill so that we are certainly sure that the amount that was proposed, that is about Ksh300 billion, is not going to be realised before we rationalise the Budget. What if we are able to defeat the President’s Memorandum and we pass the Finance Bill the way it is? Will we, again, have to do another second Supplementary Budget? That will be very untidy. I do not sit in the House Business Committee, but if I were to sit there, my advice would have been that we deal with the revenue side, and then we finalise the expenditure side.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker.

This is a very straightforward matter. I do not know why there is so much interest.

Next Order.

Next Order.

Second Reading

Hon. Members, the debate on this Bill has been ongoing. We have a balance of 33 minutes for it to be concluded. As at the last time it was on the Order Paper, the Member on the Floor finished his contribution. So, I do not know whether what I see on my dashboard is of Hon. Members who want to contribute on this Bill. I will start with Hon. Gichimu Githinji of Gichugu Constituency.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker for giving an opportunity to contribute to the Public Service Internship Bill, sponsored by Hon. Naisula Lesuuda.

At the outset, let me say that this is a very progressive Bill that will address some of the issues that have been raised by young people of this country. It seeks to place them in a very good state in terms of matters of internship. This is a matter, though it has been happening in this country, that has not been legislated. This is a Bill that is worth being supported by every Member for the interests of the young people of this country.

However, I would like to make some comments and proposals in respect of the Bill that we will discuss and probably propose amendments at the Committee of the whole House. The Cabinet Secretary mentioned in the Bill is the one in charge of Labour. However, I would like to consult with the sponsor of the Bill to seek concurrence that we have the Cabinet Secretary in charge of Public Service. This is because this is a matter of Public Service. In the Bill, we find that the institutions that are in charge are in the Public Service.

Clause 6 (1) refers to a person in charge of the Public Service. In my opinion, with the concurrence of the sponsor, I will be proposing an amendment so that we institutionalise the matter of internship than personalising it, so that we leave it to the Public Service. The Public Service in itself is an independent commission. Once we mention the Public Service, it does not matter who will be in charge, but the Public Service as an institution will be in charge of internships. That also applies to 6 (4) , where the Public Service as an institution, as a commission and as an independent constitutional commission, will be required to do the recruitment.

Under Clause 9 (e) , there appears to be a conflict or a misunderstanding between the supervisor and a mentor. We need to centralise an intern. There should be only one person in charge of an intern instead of having a mentor and a supervisor for ease of coordination of the activities of an intern. That is also an area that I will also be seeking, with the concurrence of the sponsor, to amend.

Clause 10 provides for the stipend that should be paid to the intern. That should come through the regulations by the Cabinet Secretary. Since a stipend is very central in internship, we should have the regulations pegged on a specific time within which they should be made. I will be moving an amendment for the stipend in the regulations by the Cabinet Secretary to be done within six months so that we do not have a situation where an intern starts and ends his internship when

the regulations are not in place. Six months from the date of assent of this Bill into law may be better.

Clause 11 provides for a personal accident cover for an intern. That should be a general insurance cover that will cover any other medical issue. That is an area that I will be seeking to have an amendment during the Committee of the whole House stage.

If you look at Clause 14, it provides for grounds under which an intern can be discontinued. We should make these grounds very lenient. We should not make them very strict. For example, it is stated that if interns do not appear at their places of work within 24 hours, they are discontinued. This should be made a bit lenient so that if an intern does not appear for a longer period like two weeks without explanation or permission from a supervisor, it is treated as gross misconduct or disobedience. We should limit the discontinuation to only two grounds. It should only be through gross or disorderly misconduct and where an intern is found to be criminally liable so that we make it very easy for interns to do their job.

Clause 15 provides for general regulations. We need to put a time limit. The Cabinet Secretary, Ministry of Public Service, who is in charge of the interns should be given a time limit of about six months to have the regulations in place so that we can operationalise this Bill within a very reasonable time.

This Bill is very progressive. With the incorporation of the few amendments that we have highlighted, it will address the issues that young people in this country have raised. Internship has not been well structured in this country. This Bill will enable them to progress their careers. One of the things that we should structure in this Bill is differentiation of the internship by the national Government and the county governments. We should also indicate that the period that has been served by interns will be considered as part of their experience when they are applying for permanent jobs in this country.

I beg to support.

Thank you. The Member for Kitui West, do you want to speak on this Bill?

Edith Nyenze

: Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. From the outset, I support this Bill which is important, especially for the unemployed graduates. We have very many people who are unemployed in Kenya. The rate of unemployment is very high. So, this Bill is coming at the right time, especially in putting the unemployed through a programme. I have noted that the Bill has not talked about the period of internship. Although it talks about those who are not employed, it could have talked about the period of internship as well. Is it immediately after graduation? As I have said, the rate of unemployment is very high. So, if we leave it open, it will be open to people who graduated 20 years ago and did not go through internship. It is important that the Bill gives a period within which this internship should be done.

I have also noted that the Bill has included some things that were not included previously like insurance. Today, when one goes for internship, there is no insurance for medical cover. This Bill addresses that. It is a good Bill.

I support.

Thank you. The Member for Starehe.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. From the outset, I support this Bill because it seeks to address most of the issues that the youth go through when it comes to matters of employment. This is a step in the right direction. This House should discuss more about the issues that have been raised by the youth. What we are seeing is that the youth are claiming their space in this country. On internship, it goes without saying that this is an area that

the youth have always been disadvantaged in terms of being manipulated and not treated in the right way. I support my colleague who has come up with this Bill because it seeks to address some of those challenges. For example, if you look at the amount of exposure that these interns get at some of the work places, it is limited to being messengers. They are given light duties. They are not exposed enough to attain experience in the spheres that they work in.

It is only fair that we appreciate that the world is moving in a very revolving way. The world is advancing and technology is changing every now and then. Most of these interns possess great knowledge, wisdom and ideas that can move this country forward. Moving forward, it is only right that we treat these interns in the right way and use their manpower to move this country forward. I support this Bill and ask the Mover to incorporate an element of making sure that once these interns finish their internship, they will be guaranteed to be absorbed in the companies that they are working in so that we address the issue of unemployment. You have seen the doctor interns

Member for Likoni.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I stand to support the Public Service Internship Bill, 2022, which was brought by my sister, Hon. Naisula Lesuuda.

The Bill seeks to preserve human dignity as set out in Article 19 of the Constitution, through the realisation of economic and social rights under Article 43 (1) of the Constitution. Medical doctors were on strike recently because of internship programmes.

The Bill will promote a clear linkage among education, training and work. Most job advertisements ask people if they have experience. They need to have some experience to get jobs. If we enact this Bill, it will be easier for our students in universities, colleges and other tertiary institutions to gain experience.

The Bill also promotes a well-structured and coordinated internship programme. This will help us to do away with demonstrations and address the challenges that students who finish their university and college education face in job placement. It also provides for remuneration of interns. It will be a stipend that will cater for their transport and subsistence as they build the nation. They also add value. Something should be done for them to be motivated.

The Bill also enhances access to medical cover, which is very important. It addresses sick leave, maternity leave and medical insurance – which will enable the interns to access all the amenities. This will improve their well-being at the workplace.

Many years back, when our students graduated from university, it was mandatory to be placed for internship. Nowadays, most of them graduate but they have nowhere to go. They do not have opportunities where they can gain work experience.

I congratulate Hon. Naisula Lesuuda. We should enact this Bill with a few amendments, so that it does not bring some crises in future.

With those remarks, I support the Bill.

Thank you. Member for Sotik, do you want to contribute to the debate on this Bill? You are next in line.

(Technical hitch) Use the microphone next to your seat.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I also rise to support this Bill which was brought by my sister in-law, Hon. Lesuuda.

I will speak on behalf of many of my constituents who are beneficiaries of this important programme. The Government made the good decision of giving a chance to young people to serve the nation as interns as they prepare themselves for future assignments. For the sake of the future of the interns, I would like to see a provision in this Bill for students to be absorbed in the State Departments they serve as interns. While we acknowledge that this is a very important programme, it ends after one year. Thereafter, the interns come to ask me what they will do. I would like to see a change, so that they can have a chance to serve in the State Departments that they will serve and become part of Government servants.

With those remarks, I support the Bill.

Thank you. Hon. Members, the time allotted for this Bill has lapsed. I now call upon the Mover to reply.

Thank you very much, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I can see the Hon. Member from Trans-Nzoia County communicating to me using sign language. I will give him and Hon. Oluoch two minutes each.

Hon. Wanyonyi.

Thank you very much for giving me this chance. I will take two minutes to congratulate the Member who brought this Bill. It is very important that we give chance to students who complete college and university education to gain experience in their areas of specialisation.

We should also incorporate those who are still studying to enable them to acquire the relevant skills and experience for in a particular field. I suggest that we incorporate the internship programme in the school syllabus so that students can have some months for acquaintance to prepare for future. We have people who do not even know what they are doing. They are employed but they become busybodies. This Bill is appropriate. I suggest that we incorporate internship in school programmes.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I support the Bill.

Hon. Oluoch.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. Allow me to thank Hon. Lesuuda for bringing this Bill.

Internship is very important. As a beneficiary of an internship programme in various areas of specialization within the legal profession, I honed my skills. I became who I am today because of the internship opportunities that were offered to me albeit in the informal sector.

We should have a well-structured internship programme that is guided by law to provide equal opportunities for skills acquisition. A well-thought-out programme on how interns can be supported and eventually absorbed in Government service is something that this House should laud. The doctors’ strike and the agitation that was out there should serve as food for thought for us to reflect on what happens to these people after we have spent too much time and resources on them. These are the ones who have been in school for seven or eight years. How do we ensure that the skills they have acquired do not go to waste?

Lastly, I support and congratulate the Member. The current agitation by Generation Zoomers (Gen Zs) and Millennials may be about good governance and the Finance Bill, but the

actual underlying issue is lack of employment opportunities. This Bill will create opportunities for some members of these generations who have graduated from universities and colleges, those who are currently in universities and colleges, as well as Generation Alpha. They will enter into a structured system of Government Internship Programme, where they will acquire on-the-job skills and use them to build the nation.

With those remarks, I beg to support.

Hon. Lesuuda.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, as I reply to the debate on this Bill, I want to thank each and every Member who contributed. Their input is valuable to the improvement of this Bill. I had written a long list of Members who contributed but I misplaced it. I am unable to call out their names but I want to thank them very much.

Out of the comments that Members have made here, I have picked a number of issues in respect of which I think it will be important for us to agree on as we move to the next stage. On the issue of a 24-hour notice for an internship to be terminated, I agree with you that something might happen to an intern and in 24 hours, one might not be able to get in touch with one’s work place. Therefore, 24 hours is a very short time. However, a week or two is too long. It can be misused. Therefore, we need to agree on an appropriate time frame. Within 48 hours, an intern should be able to have got in touch with his workplace and explain why he is unable to report to work.

Hon. Gichangi raised a very important point on a matter we were struggling with. We were not sure whether we should place it under the Ministry of Labour or the Ministry responsible for Public Service. I agree with you that the appropriate Cabinet Secretary should be the one responsible for Public Service. The reason we did not go through the route of the Commission yet we have had engagements with them, and even with the Committee is because not all employments happen at the Public Service Commission. The Parliamentary Service Commission (PSC) gives opportunity to interns as well but they do so as PSC. The Judicial Service Commission (JSC) also employs and even gives opportunities to interns, but they do not do so through the Public Service Commission. They do so through their own Commission. Therefore, if we limit it only to the Public Service Commission, we would be limiting ourselves to that space while there are other commissions and public entities where people get internship or get employed. It is something we had conversed on at length.

There is also the issue of absorption of interns into employment. Some interns have reached out to me in this regard. They have really sent messages. You know that they have our mobile phone numbers. Wanatusalimia whenever they feel like. They claim that it is not enough to just go through the internship programme. They want to be absorbed. We conversed about it because it will have a budgetary implication to the country. We really debated on it. Because we are not sure how many people are going on retirement, we are not sure of the budgetary allocation. It is something that we can amend in the Bill and say that interns be given priority so that when many interns move, others can get similar opportunity through internship. The Teachers Service Commission (TSC) has incorporated that as a guiding principal in its merit section during employment. If you have done internship and it builds to experience, you get a number of marks, which are considered when you go for an interview. That is something we will continue to deliberate on but in the amendment, we will give priority to interns when recruitment happens.

There is also the issue that was raised on the time frame. Currently, the Public Service Commission has a time frame on when one can be an intern. They do not take people who graduated much earlier for internship and people are saying that policy is discriminatory. Provided

you are a graduate, you should be able to do internship. Maybe, some graduates have been applying for internship over the last five or ten years but they have not been able to get placements because they do not have godfathers. Therefore, we are not supposed to discriminate against anybody by denying such persons a chance to benefit from internship. As for the time frame, we will consider it during the next stage of amendments. We will determine whether we should do away with it or we prolong the period.

I want to thank Hon. Gichangi, Hon. Nyenze of Kitui West, Hon. Mishi Mboko, Hon. Wanyonyi and Hon. Oluoch for their contributions. Hon. Wanyonyi, what you have said about including it when the students are in school is captured under the provision on who can be an intern. You can do it at the end of your schooling or you could do it as you continue with your education as part of your course. Some of them do internship in-between before they graduate as one of the requirements. Therefore, that is captured.

I want to also comment on the issue of medical cover. I agree that we might have to provide for a proper medical cover, and not just a personal accident insurance cover. That is something which the Government can look into even as we move to the Social Hospital Insurance Fund (SHIF). They can come up with a package that takes care of our interns generally in terms of medical cover, and not just personal accident insurance. I agree that this is something we can look into.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I just want to allay some fears that some Members have. The Deputy Leader of the Majority Party, Hon. Baya, for example, feels that this Bill provides for misuse of interns as a source of cheap labour. He argued that because interns will be given monthly stipends, insurance cover, maternity leave and paternity leave, we are likely to misuse them because we will feel that we have taken care of them so that they can work for us cheaply.

I want to assure this House that this is not the intent of this Bill. This Bill seeks to dignify the interns because they will be working anyway. Even if you say that we do not want to make them give us cheap labour, the fact of the matter remains that they will be working. This Bill seeks to dignify them as they offer services during their internship period.

I want to use this opportunity to raise the issue of the Junior Secondary School (JSS) teachers who have been suspended from their duties across the country because they exercised their right to demonstrate as they sought to be employed on permanent and pensionable basis. There are about 700 JSS teachers across the country, whose contracts were terminated. I want to use the Floor of this House to talk to the TSC to, kindly, treat our teachers as human beings. They were on the streets because they felt bad because they had not been employed. It is unfortunate that their contracts have been terminated as we provide some money in the Supplementary Budget so that they can be employed. It is unfortunate that those teaches have been offering their services and when they were about to be employed, the TSC terminated their contracts. I know they have been asked to appeal. They have written letters to the TSC and are waiting to be invited for interviews to present their case. I want to call upon the TSC this morning to hasten that process. Let the TSC reinstate the JSS teachers whose contracts have been terminated. We want them employed together with the 46,000 teachers who are going to be employed when we pass the Supplementary Budget in this House.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I would like to thank Members for the support they have given to this Bill. I hope we will enrich it through appropriate amendments during the Committee of the whole House. I am free to consultations. I started working on this Bill in the last Parliament but it has come to the House at the most appropriate time when our young people are talking to us as

leaders. They are speaking to us, as representatives of the country in this House, to think about them by making laws that work for them. They are asking us to be considerate of their well-being.

With those very many remarks I reply.

Hon. Members, let us proceed to the next order.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I beg to move the following Motion:

THAT, this House adopts the Report of the Budget and Appropriations

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SECOND SCHEDULE SUMMARY OF INCREASES/DECREASES IN THE FIRST SUPPLEMENTARY ESTIMATES FOR THE FY 2024/2025 VOTE CODE VOTE & PROGRAMME SUPPLEMENTARY I BUDGET ESTIMATES FOR FY 2024/25 (Changes) GROSS CURRENT ESTIMATES GROSS CAPITAL ESTIMATES GROSS TOTAL ESTIMATES Executive Office of the President (646,815,488) (1,200,900,000) (1,847,715,488)

(335,599,493) Office of the Deputy President (1,977,447,003) (320,400,000) (2,297,847,003)

(2,297,847,003) Office of the Prime Cabinet Secretary (419,077,619) - (419,077,619)

(419,077,619) State Department for Parliamentary Affairs (94,370,050) - (94,370,050)

VOTE CODE VOTE & PROGRAMME SUPPLEMENTARY I BUDGET ESTIMATES FOR FY 2024/25 (Changes) GROSS CURRENT ESTIMATES GROSS CAPITAL ESTIMATES GROSS TOTAL ESTIMATES

(30,620,000) State Department for Performance and Delivery Management (89,262,724) - (89,262,724)

(5,028,595) State Department for Cabinet Affairs (46,463,771) - (46,463,771)

(46,463,771) State House (3,629,768,342) (1,558,700,000) (5,188,468,342)

VOTE CODE VOTE & PROGRAMME SUPPLEMENTARY I BUDGET ESTIMATES FOR FY 2024/25 (Changes) GROSS CURRENT ESTIMATES GROSS CAPITAL ESTIMATES GROSS TOTAL ESTIMATES State Department for Correctional Services (337,665,548) (783,025,000) (1,120,690,548)

(124,018,929) State Department for Immigration and Citizen Services (275,363,128) (414,000,000) (689,363,128)

(77,749,847) National Police Service (528,908,352) (1,745,720,000) (2,274,628,352)

(2,274,628,352) State Department for Internal Security & National Administration (486,489,765) (7,205,290,000) (7,691,779,765)

VOTE CODE VOTE & PROGRAMME SUPPLEMENTARY I BUDGET ESTIMATES FOR FY 2024/25 (Changes) GROSS CURRENT ESTIMATES GROSS CAPITAL ESTIMATES GROSS TOTAL ESTIMATES

(438,639,761) State Department for Devolution (146,508,447) - (146,508,447)

(146,508,447) State Department for ASALs and Regional Development (51,807,075) (4,155,363,484) (4,207,170,559)

(3,832,492,951) Ministry of Defence (134,755,232) - (134,755,232)

VOTE CODE VOTE & PROGRAMME SUPPLEMENTARY I BUDGET ESTIMATES FOR FY 2024/25 (Changes) GROSS CURRENT ESTIMATES GROSS CAPITAL ESTIMATES GROSS TOTAL ESTIMATES

State Department for Foreign Affairs (694,196,254) (2,390,100,000) (3,084,296,254)

(105,335,213) State Department for Diaspora Affairs (190,316,991) - (190,316,991)

(190,316,991) State Department for Technical Vocational Education and Training (32,252,664) (2,448,000,000) (2,480,252,664)

VOTE CODE VOTE & PROGRAMME SUPPLEMENTARY I BUDGET ESTIMATES FOR FY 2024/25 (Changes) GROSS CURRENT ESTIMATES GROSS CAPITAL ESTIMATES GROSS TOTAL ESTIMATES

(21,901,386) State Department for Higher Education and Research (1,768,655,277) (3,224,640,000) (4,993,295,277)

(65,897,806) State Department for Basic Education (5,080,536,424) (5,974,560,000) (11,055,096,424)

(68,150,765) The National Treasury (6,424,553,812) (7,021,800,000) (13,446,353,812)

VOTE CODE VOTE & PROGRAMME SUPPLEMENTARY I BUDGET ESTIMATES FOR FY 2024/25 (Changes) GROSS CURRENT ESTIMATES GROSS CAPITAL ESTIMATES GROSS TOTAL ESTIMATES

State Department for Economic Planning 304,654,800 4,783,447,681 5,088,102,481

(24,479,250) State Department for Medical Services 195,475,770 (7,297,500,000) (7,102,024,230)

VOTE CODE VOTE & PROGRAMME SUPPLEMENTARY I BUDGET ESTIMATES FOR FY 2024/25 (Changes) GROSS CURRENT ESTIMATES GROSS CAPITAL ESTIMATES GROSS TOTAL ESTIMATES

69,191,996 State Department for Public Health and Professional Standards (37,633,088) (1,275,180,000) (1,312,813,088)

(55,146,183) State Department for Roads (14,720,460) (7,213,316,879) (7,228,037,339)

(7,228,037,339) State Department for Transport (60,516,889) (3,226,400,000) (3,286,916,889)

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(143,764,875) State Department for Shipping and Maritime Affairs (47,008,788) (574,000,000) (621,008,788)

(621,008,788) State Department for Housing and Urban Development (12,441,714) (2,055,000,000) (2,067,441,714)

(1,412,464) State Department for Public Works (18,836,282) (1,085,100,000) (1,103,936,282)

VOTE CODE VOTE & PROGRAMME SUPPLEMENTARY I BUDGET ESTIMATES FOR FY 2024/25 (Changes) GROSS CURRENT ESTIMATES GROSS CAPITAL ESTIMATES GROSS TOTAL ESTIMATES

(24,064,629) State Department for Irrigation (33,061,000) (1,892,190,000) (1,925,251,000)

(14,560,000) State Department for Water & Sanitation (13,642,827) (2,705,810,000) (2,719,452,827)

(2,695,318,561) State Department for Lands and Physical Planning (30,750,000) (3,975,136,000) (4,005,886,000)

VOTE CODE VOTE & PROGRAMME SUPPLEMENTARY I BUDGET ESTIMATES FOR FY 2024/25 (Changes) GROSS CURRENT ESTIMATES GROSS CAPITAL ESTIMATES GROSS TOTAL ESTIMATES

State Department for Information Communication Technology & Digital Economy (16,966,403) (2,339,960,000) (2,356,926,403)

(1,092,615,914) State Department for Broadcasting & Telecommunications 298,428,668 (651,900,000) (353,471,332)

State Department for Sports (13,776,118) (174,400,000) (188,176,118)

VOTE CODE VOTE & PROGRAMME SUPPLEMENTARY I BUDGET ESTIMATES FOR FY 2024/25 (Changes) GROSS CURRENT ESTIMATES GROSS CAPITAL ESTIMATES GROSS TOTAL ESTIMATES

(188,176,118) State Department for Culture and Heritage (110,889,037) (92,843,000) (203,732,037)

(2,840,424) State Department for Youth Affairs and the Creative Economy (354,888) (609,891,510) (610,246,398)

(13,738,887) State Department for Energy (12,316,623) (15,591,600,000) (15,603,916,623)

VOTE CODE VOTE & PROGRAMME SUPPLEMENTARY I BUDGET ESTIMATES FOR FY 2024/25 (Changes) GROSS CURRENT ESTIMATES GROSS CAPITAL ESTIMATES GROSS TOTAL ESTIMATES

(116,892,989) State Department for Livestock (45,266,641) (572,450,000) (617,716,641)

(617,716,641) State Department for the Blue Economy and Fisheries 89,388,591 (1,745,030,000) (1,655,641,409)

(588,249,873) State Department for Agriculture (15,889,003) (3,664,654,000) (3,680,543,003)

VOTE CODE VOTE & PROGRAMME SUPPLEMENTARY I BUDGET ESTIMATES FOR FY 2024/25 (Changes) GROSS CURRENT ESTIMATES GROSS CAPITAL ESTIMATES GROSS TOTAL ESTIMATES

(110,376,655) State Department for Cooperatives 975,525,182 1,153,230,000 2,128,755,182

2,128,755,182 State Department for Trade (26,618,913) (500,000,000) (526,618,913)

(4,881,318) State Department for Industry (15,493,394) (2,522,900,000) (2,538,393,394)

VOTE CODE VOTE & PROGRAMME SUPPLEMENTARY I BUDGET ESTIMATES FOR FY 2024/25 (Changes) GROSS CURRENT ESTIMATES GROSS CAPITAL ESTIMATES GROSS TOTAL ESTIMATES

State Department for Micro, Small and Medium Enterprises Development (79,171,750) (3,394,340,000) (3,473,511,750)

(58,642,750) State Department for Investment Promotion (44,927,492) (2,245,430,000) (2,290,357,492)

(2,290,357,492) State Department for Labour and Skills Development (50,993,075) (1,412,885,400) (1,463,878,475)

VOTE CODE VOTE & PROGRAMME SUPPLEMENTARY I BUDGET ESTIMATES FOR FY 2024/25 (Changes) GROSS CURRENT ESTIMATES GROSS CAPITAL ESTIMATES GROSS TOTAL ESTIMATES

(1,077,396,600) State Department for Social Protection and Senior Citizen Affairs 146,507,088 (282,259,000) (135,751,912)

(25,971,200) State Department for Mining (111,028,190) (652,260,000) (763,288,190)

VOTE CODE VOTE & PROGRAMME SUPPLEMENTARY I BUDGET ESTIMATES FOR FY 2024/25 (Changes) GROSS CURRENT ESTIMATES GROSS CAPITAL ESTIMATES GROSS TOTAL ESTIMATES

(428,394,000) State Department for Petroleum (6,002,147) (375,200,000) (381,202,147)

(381,202,147) State Department for Tourism (13,207,305) - (13,207,305)

(10,610,087) State Department for Wildlife (36,119,563) (1,893,000,000) (1,929,119,563)

(1,929,119,563) State Department for Gender and Affirmative Action (77,052,761) (453,850,000) (530,902,761)

VOTE CODE VOTE & PROGRAMME SUPPLEMENTARY I BUDGET ESTIMATES FOR FY 2024/25 (Changes) GROSS CURRENT ESTIMATES GROSS CAPITAL ESTIMATES GROSS TOTAL ESTIMATES

(32,472,787) State Department for Public Service 287,242,661 (877,500,000) (590,257,339)

(108,800,000) State Department for East African Community (39,344,471) (35,400,000) (74,744,471)

(74,744,471) The State Law Office (1,548,567,629) - (1,548,567,629)

(148,760,592) Ethics and Anti- Corruption Commission - (27,920,000)

VOTE CODE VOTE & PROGRAMME SUPPLEMENTARY I BUDGET ESTIMATES FOR FY 2024/25 (Changes) GROSS CURRENT ESTIMATES GROSS CAPITAL ESTIMATES GROSS TOTAL ESTIMATES

Public Prosecutions 20,000,000 (42,500,000) (22,500,000)

Political Parties (110,056,771) - (110,056,771)

(110,056,771) Witness Protection Agency (44,058,500) - (44,058,500)

(44,058,500) State Department for Environment & Climate Change (178,794,895) (379,000,000) (557,794,895)

VOTE CODE VOTE & PROGRAMME SUPPLEMENTARY I BUDGET ESTIMATES FOR FY 2024/25 (Changes) GROSS CURRENT ESTIMATES GROSS CAPITAL ESTIMATES GROSS TOTAL ESTIMATES

State Department for Forestry (11,949,889) (972,300,000) (984,249,889)

(7,726,750) Kenya National Commission on Human Rights (34,638) - (34,638)

(34,638) National Land Commission (86,173,781) (147,860,000) (234,033,781)

(234,033,781) Independent Electoral and Boundaries Commission 86,833,154 (24,320,000) 62,513,154

VOTE CODE VOTE & PROGRAMME SUPPLEMENTARY I BUDGET ESTIMATES FOR FY 2024/25 (Changes) GROSS CURRENT ESTIMATES GROSS CAPITAL ESTIMATES GROSS TOTAL ESTIMATES

The Commission on Revenue Allocation (49,116,515) - (49,116,515)

(49,116,515) Public Service Commission (145,719,458) (45,300,000) (191,019,458)

(11,390,000) Salaries and Remuneration Commission (19,494,716) - (19,494,716)

(19,494,716) Teachers Service Commission (10,281,147,858) (47,000,000) (10,328,147,858)

VOTE CODE VOTE & PROGRAMME SUPPLEMENTARY I BUDGET ESTIMATES FOR FY 2024/25 (Changes) GROSS CURRENT ESTIMATES GROSS CAPITAL ESTIMATES GROSS TOTAL ESTIMATES

(114,320,344) National Police Service Commission (123,231,397) - (123,231,397)

(123,231,397) Auditor General (186,871,820) (376,000,000) (562,871,820)

Budget (35,967,183) - (35,967,183)

(35,967,183) Commission on Administrative Justice (25,453,358) - (25,453,358)

(25,453,358) National Gender and Equality Commission (18,107,500) - (18,107,500)

VOTE CODE VOTE & PROGRAMME SUPPLEMENTARY I BUDGET ESTIMATES FOR FY 2024/25 (Changes) GROSS CURRENT ESTIMATES GROSS CAPITAL ESTIMATES GROSS TOTAL ESTIMATES

Independent Policing Oversight Authority (19,031,579) - (19,031,579)

(19,031,579) Sub-Total: Executive (34,518,964,361) (105,955,406,592) (140,474,370,953) The Judiciary (1,119,000,000) (773,400,000) (1,892,400,000)

(1,892,400,000) Judicial Service Commission (242,784,836) - (242,784,836)

(242,784,836) Sub-Total: Judiciary (1,361,784,836) (773,400,000) (2,135,184,836) Parliamentary Service Commission 130,266,307 - 130,266,307

150,000,000 (2,246,435,425) - (2,246,435,425)

VOTE CODE VOTE & PROGRAMME SUPPLEMENTARY I BUDGET ESTIMATES FOR FY 2024/25 (Changes) GROSS CURRENT ESTIMATES GROSS CAPITAL ESTIMATES GROSS TOTAL ESTIMATES

(2,246,435,425) Parliamentary Joint Services (343,617,592) (716,890,886) (1,060,508,478)

(30,267,788) (555,822,405) - (555,822,405)

(100,000,000) Sub-Total: Parliament (3,015,609,115) (716,890,886) (3,732,500,001) Grand Total (38,896,358,312) (107,445,697,478) (146,342,055,790) THIRD SCHEDULE

bad. It was a good year because our economy grew by 5.6 per cent. As we speak, the last figures released by the Kenya National Bureau of Statistics (KNBS) in regard to price levels was 4.6 per cent. That is what we call inflation.

In addition, our currency has been performing quite well. It gained massively this year – by close to 20 per cent against the US Dollar, and even much more if you consider the last six months. In terms of regional currencies, we have also seen an appreciation of our domestic currency. Even with the challenges we are having in our country, what is surprising is that all those parameters have proven to be very resilient. We have not seen our local currency losing ground. This shows that the appreciation of the Kenyan Shilling is grounded on fundamental reasons. That is why the price regarding our local currency has been sticky even when we have challenges in Kenya. Therefore, we must all be proud of Kenya as a country.

Whereas we have challenges, I assure the people of Kenya that economic-wise, using globally accepted parameters like Gross Domestic Product (GDP), inflation levels and the strength of the local currency, we should be proud of our country. As an economy, Kenya has proven very resilient. Areas of cuts are some of the things we have had to relook. So that we get as many people as possible participating, I do not want to take too much time today.

Is more borrowing good or bad for the country? Outrightly, my answer is that it is not right for our country to continue borrowing – especially increasing our level of borrowing. Why? The problem we have as a country is based on the fact that, in previous years, we borrowed more than we ought to have borrowed. The weight is now on us. I was talking to Hon. Maryanne Keitany just here. She is very mad because she feels that some of the Budget expenditure lines they were considering in the Departmental Committee on Trade, Industry and Cooperatives ought not to have been reduced. That is the situation. I am glad my sister, Hon. Maryanne, is listening. This is how it is. I also conversed with the Chairperson of Trade, Industry and Cooperatives. I saw him this morning.

Kenyans should know that this is our country. The bare fact is that in the current financial year, we will, as a country, spend Ksh1.002 trillion on payment of interest rates alone. They are interest rates incurred from domestic and foreign borrowing. We will be spending over Ksh1 trillion. Precisely, we will be spending Ksh1.002 trillion. We may come here and read a Budget of Ksh3.88 trillion, as we are doing today but the fact of the matter is that we are already paying interest rates in the sum of Ksh1 trillion even before we finish reading. The money we pay to meet our pension obligations to retired civil servants is over Ksh200 billion.

Therefore, before we even start negotiating about which projects to be done, Ksh1.002 trillion is off the table. We also had to do something unprecedented, which I will mention later. Out of that Budget, Ksh380 billion is equitable share. If we do the math, we see what remains. More surprisingly, when we talk about debt servicing, it is not just a component of interest rate. There is also the component of the principal. The entire expenditure on debts is Ksh1.8 trillion. What we have been doing for the past year is that out of Ksh100 collected by KRA, Ksh61 has been going to debt servicing and we are left to grapple with what to do with the remainder. That is the reality of the matter. Whoever is in the driving seat, whoever is at the National Treasury, and whoever is in whichever other position, those are the grim realities.

What we have done this time round – I am saying ‘we’ because, as a country, we came together and decided that we needed to rationalise our budget – is that we have done something unprecedented. One unprecedented thing is to bring to the House a Supplementary Budget even before the lapse of a month following the passage of the Budget. The second unprecedented thing that we have done is the kind of budget cuts that we have undertaken. The cuts have been made at

all levels of Government. I hope Members are keen on what I am saying. The cuts have been spread across the two levels of government. Even the county governments are losing Ksh20 billions of their equitable share out of the realities that we face at the moment. The cuts have also been effected across all Ministries, Departments and Agencies (MDAs) of the national Government. I assure the Kenyan people that we have cut all the flesh. What remains now is only the bone. Maybe in some areas, even the bones have also been cut. I say so because we have made sure that there is no money left for us who are servants of the people elected and appointed. For those who work for the Government, there is no money for travel; there is no money for hospitality; and there is no money for ostentatious spending. That is what the Kenyan people told us to do.

We have also cut money across all the three arms of government. The Executive is losing, the Judiciary is losing, and Parliament is losing. I want to laud the Members of this House because we have come together and agreed that these are difficult times. For that reason, Parliament itself voluntarily, without fighting back, is being cut Ksh3.7 billion. This is edged on many things. For example, we conducted meetings of the Budget and Appropriations Committee within Parliament Buildings. This is a good thing for us to continue doing so that we continue to cut the ‘excess weight’ out of our Budget and live with the bare minimum and channel the saved resources to the growth of the country, especially our economy. This is the first time since I joined Parliament that the allocation of the NG-CDF is being cut and Members are clapping. Ordinarily, if any Chairman of the Budget and Appropriations Committee stood here and talked about reducing the allocation of the NG-CDF, the Motion would have to be adjourn. However, these are unprecedented times. Even the NG-CDF is giving up the increment that had been scheduled so that we, first, face the critical areas as Kenyans have directed.

We have moved Ksh14.5 billion, which was to go to last-mile electricity connectivity. I also thank the Kenyan people, especially Members of this House, because in unison, they have agreed that the programme can be put in abeyance to be done at a later date, giving way to have that Ksh14.5 billion. Much more has been lost because we needed to make a budget that has a semblance of money going specifically to critical areas, as Kenyans have directed. There is something I have also noted throughout the days we have been meeting and re-looking at the Budget. This country is rich. I believe this country has the potential to raise much more money. Kenya is largely a country where most of the activities happen informally. The informal side of our economy is much larger than the formal one. Kenya has a working population of 20 million but only three million have payslips. One million are in Government and two million are in the private sector. Those are the statistics that we must look at as Kenyans. Out of a working population of 20 million, only three million are in formal employment. The problem for KRA starts there. When you have visibility of only three million Kenyans, then that is where you direct your revenue raising measures.

What the majority of the economies do when most of the economy is in the informal sector is coming up with other ways of raising revenue. That is in terms of fees and levies. If you cannot target people using mainstream means, then you have to raise money from non-ordinary revenue. Ordinary revenue would be paid through PAYE and Income Tax. We have seen that there is much more opportunity to raise money through non-ordinary revenue. Out of the sittings we have had with Members of the Budget and Appropriations Committee, we have seen that Kenya can raise much more. I am glad that you are also part of that Committee. In terms of A-in-A, for example, take the Tourism Fund and the Tourism Promotion Fund.

Currently, tourism is surging in Kenya. The tourism numbers are going up but we have made laws in such a manner that the money collected by these Funds can only be used in a certain

manner. In our recommendations, we want to make amendments across all the entities of Government that collect money. When you collect money from a Kenyan, that is public money. If it is public money, whereas the collecting entities need to keep some of the money for themselves in order for them to collect more and remain efficient, we must open up these funds for the surplus amounts to be channelled to the Consolidated Fund so that instead of the Government borrowing and overtaxing the formal sector, we can also raise much more resources through these funds and contribute to the Consolidated Fund.

Sometimes it is a paradox that on one side the Government of Kenya is raising money through Treasury Bills and Treasury Bonds but on the other side of the supply some of the Government money is being used to purchase these bonds. Some of these rigidities in law have to come to an end. We must open up all the funds. We must open up all the points of A-in-A so that money cannot continue to be spent singularly. We should give this money to the National Treasury to fund critical areas. What do I mean? If there is an increment in A-in-A, for example, in the Tourism Fund of Ksh3 billion, or in the Communications Authority or in the Sports Fund, the surplus of this money could be used to contribute to the Ksh14.5 billion required to fund the last- mile connectivity programme. However, the way we have crafted our laws is such that money raised through the Tourism Fund can only be spent in a specific manner. If that specific manner gets to saturation level, then what happens is empire-building?

The accounting officers look for ways of spending the money. As a country, we do not have money to spend just for the sake of spending. We only have money available for essential areas. Although we are faced with this challenge, I urge this House, through the Departmental Committees, to help us. The work of the Budget and Appropriations Committee is akin to that of a clerk. We listen to you and do our best. You know that we have been doing our best. When there is a challenge, particularly with reallocations, it is not the doing of the Budget and Appropriation Committee but rather a direction from the Executive, allowing us to take care of our economy.

I say this because, in the previous cycles, we have always adopted up to the last comma, what is presented to the Committee by the Departmental Committees. We also consult widely. I also make a point of consulting the Chairpersons so that they are aware of all the changes. The Departmental Committee chairs and their Members are my colleagues. It is not that we know better than them. Sometimes when resources are scarce we have to let the Executive decide because they are the spenders. The buck stops with them. I am being honest because this House has been harmonious about this budgetary review. After consulting with the National Treasury, the Departmental Committee Chairs, Members of Parliament, and the Executive, we have decided that despite the budget cuts, certain areas must not suffer. This country is in a beseeched place. One of the tenets of economic growth is the expansion of Government expenditure. Restraining Government expenditure in the upcoming months would likely lead to a shrinking economy. Therefore, while we cut expenses, we must ensure that there is still adequate funding available to provide liquidity to the economy. These specific areas were chosen after consultations with all the stakeholders.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, the education sector is receiving the largest share of the Budget, with Ksh650 billion allocated to it. Despite Kenya being considered a democracy with an open- market economy, the reality is that the Government's role significantly impacts the economy due to its socialist nature as evidenced by its substantial expenditure. The Government's responsibilities, including taking over stalled projects like the Competency-Based Curriculum (CBC), have contributed to the nation's economic challenges. One would argue that the

Government has been doing its duties nevertheless. This Government took over projects like CBC that the previous Government was afraid of implementing. The CBC is not just an education system. It is also a huge expenditure line because every JSS student is capitalised on by the Government to the tune of over Ksh10,000 every year. This was not the case before. Therefore, the Government is spending Ksh650 billion on education – a sum which needs to be safeguarded. I want to assure Members that the funds for recruitment of the 46,000 JSS intern teachers have not been reduced. We have provided funds for confirmation to permanent and pensionable status for the JSS intern teachers. Anything else can wait but the JSS intern teachers’ confirmation cannot wait. We have also provided Ksh8 billion to the health sector. This House passed the SHIF Act. The three funds in the SHIF are important for the implementation of the Universal Health Coverage. We have provided Ksh8 billion as seed money to allow Kenyans to start benefiting from nearly free health services through the SHIF. In that regard, we have set aside Ksh3.7 billion for the confirmation of the interns in the health sector. Hon. Temporary Speaker, Kenya's economy is predominantly agrarian, which is not a point of pride. Economic growth is typically measured quantitatively through GDP, but we should also consider the qualitative aspects. The fact that a majority of Kenyans are engaged in agriculture is indicative of our current economic status. However, a developed economy is characterized by agriculture contributing less than 10 per cent to the GDP. Therefore, we need to work towards reducing the reliance on agriculture for economic growth. We need to consider our current situation. Kenya is still a developing country, with a majority of its population engaged in agriculture. Therefore, we have provided Ksh7.5 billion to the fertiliser subsidy programme for both food crops and cash crops. This subsidy will benefit coffee, tea, maize and other farmers. Additionally, we have allocated Ksh3 billion for the Coffee Cherry Fund and Ksh2 billion to repay debts owed to coffee farmers and societies. Furthermore, funds have been provided for sugar reforms to support our sugar farmers. To safeguard dairy farmers from low milk prices, we have allocated Ksh1.5 billion to ensure that they receive at least Ksh50 per litre even during times of abundant feed.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, we have provided Ksh2 billion that will go into the purchase of milk coolers. We had such a programme before with Poland where Kenya was to provide only 10 per cent and Poland 90 per cent in terms of loans.

Allow the Chairperson three more minutes to conclude.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, we have provided Ksh2 billion so that the Kenyan Government does not rely on any other country. As a Government, we want to buy these coolers and supply them to Kenyan farmers. There was a Maraga Taskforce that went around the country to look at the situation of our security officers. They are our brothers and sisters yet they continue to live in a subhuman manner. As we know, they do not have a voice and a union. This House has listened, through the Budget and Appropriations Committee, to the cries of our security officers. We have input Ksh3.5 billion for the enhancement of salaries for our security officers in line with the Maraga Taskforce.

There are many things we have done, including money for aggregation centres. We have added around Ksh2.5billion for aggregation centres. We have added the Export Processing Zones Authority (EPZA) Ksh1.5 billion for the factories that have been ongoing across six areas in Kenya and much more.

As I conclude, I want to tell the Kenyan people that this is a period where we must seize the moment. The Kenyan Government has over 334 entities. Many of the regulations and the legislations we do in this House are to create new bodies. As the Kenyan Government continues to enlarge, there is duplication. In that regard, we have started to walk the talk. As one way of seizing the moment, in this Budget, we have denied 47 entities money for operations and maintenance. We intend to merge them so that we have a lean Government that is responsive to the needs of the Kenyan people. That exercise saves us around Ksh7.9 billion.

At some point, we have to ask critical questions in this House when it comes to some entities. In Taita Taveta, we have KeRRA, KeNHA and KURA engineers. Do we need all those engineers in the same place? These are the questions we must progressively ask ourselves. It cuts across all other sectors. The water sector in Kenya has over 20 entities. Do we need these 20 entities or should we scale them down? These are critical questions. I am just opening up a debate.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I beg to move and request Hon. Mary Emaase, who is the Vice- Chair of the Budget and Appropriations Committee, to second this Motion.

Well said, Chairperson. Hon. Mary Emaase.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker, for the opportunity to second the Motion on the Supplementary Budget Estimates. At the outset, I rise to second. Indeed, we are in unprecedented times. For the first time in our history, we are revising a budget before even implementing it. This was occasioned by the collapse of the Finance Bill. Having said that, I want to start with the phrase “difficult times call for tough decisions.” The collapse of the Finance Bill and all the happenings in the country have given us several lessons. As we were revising the Budget Estimates, we were guided by some of the lessons that we have learned as a House. We listened and had to revise the Budget Estimates. Kenyans have told us we need to stay lean, hungry and responsible.

As the Budget and the Appropriations Committee, we have made cuts, not only on the non- essential expenditure, but also on essential ones. As you look at the estimates, a number of envisaged programmes cut across all sectors, be it water, roads, electricity, or even industrialisation, as we have heard the Departmental Committee on Trade, Industry and Cooperatives complain. All other sectors have suffered cuts. The 47 of our corporations are receiving only Personal Emoluments (P&E) . There is one parastatal that is not even receiving personal emoluments as they await the restructuring, mergers, rollovers or closure for some of them.

This House was also not spared. The Parliamentary Service Commission, Parliamentary Proposed Training Centre (CPST) , a project that is ongoing and several other projects across sectors that have certificates have also suffered cuts across the board. I do not want to go into the details, but I want to mention one important aspect. It is important that as we revise this Budget, we need to note that we are revising this Budget at a time when the country is facing many challenges. Of course, I have mentioned that we have learned lessons. The country is calling for austerity and accountability. It is calling for this House to allocate money in a manner that creates opportunities for young people, among others. So, my call is to those accounting officers, all those in positions of leadership and responsibility, that we must appropriate this money prudently, in a manner that will give results.

All those who have been appointed to administer the appropriation of this money should make sure they help the President realise the objectives and for Kenyans to see value for their

money. Kenyans are still watching us and they will continue to watch, to see how this money is utilised for their benefit.

As Budget and Appropriations Committee, we have done our bit. We have made the cuts across the board. I do not want to repeat the figures, but it is now up to the individuals who are bestowed with the responsibility to oversee all those institutions. The Auditor General, Controller of Budget, and the Ethics and Anti-Corruption Commission (EACC), among others, should play their roles. All the accounting officers and committees must ensure that Kenyans get value for money which we are appropriating through this revised budget.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I second.

Thank you, Hon. Members. Order. The first person to bite the cherry on this would be the Member for Aldai. What is your point of order? This is your chance to contribute.

Let me raise a point of order, Hon. Temporary Speaker. Many of us would like to contribute to this Motion and in the interest of time, can each Member contribute for three minutes instead of five minutes?

Is it the mood of the House that we allow Members' contributions to be three minutes?

Order! Hon. Members, it is my ruling that we debate as per what we had passed when we started this session. We will do five minutes each. Let us proceed.

The first bite of the cherry is to you. If you want to do three minutes, Hon. Marianne Kitany, you are allowed to do so.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I rise in support of the Supplementary Budget Estimates with amendments. We are living in interesting times. The people who went to the streets, the so-called Gen Z, raised issues. Among the issues they raised are wastage, corruption and others. They said that we had to reject the Finance Bill that had the Budget Estimates that we had put across based on it. The Supplementary Budget Estimates have come to ensure that our Budget is within the timeframe.

I want to raise a few issues. We want to get employment in this country. If I look at the budget reductions that have been done, much as I agree, I would have wished that the reduction in the recurrent expenditure was the converse, same as the development expenditure. What do I mean by that? If the recurrent expenditure had been reduced by Ksh107 million and the development expenditure by Ksh38 billion, in my view, I would have preferred development expenditure be reduced by a smaller percentage to create opportunities for employment of our young people. We are talking about creating employment. Much as we are saying that we have to cut the cloth to fit our size, we also have to consider that we have so many young people in the streets today whose numbers have doubled since 2013 or tripled since 1965. Therefore, even as we do our budget, we should consider that development is what brings more employment, more than recurrent expenditure because a lot of it goes into salaries and such things.

The other issue I wanted to raise is that, as the Committee on Budget and Appropriations, we were given the Budget Estimates to reconsider which was already reduced then and therefore, the ceilings we were dealing with were already reduced. We invited Semi-Autonomous Government Agencies (SAGA) and State departments to give their views. We understand and appreciate the tough economic times we are living in because some of those SAGAs are being

merged, and therefore, they are not going to get personal emoluments, which we agree. However, some of the money have already been allocated to certain development projects. For example, Comex is a very critical component in the agricultural sector.

We are giving fertiliser and I have heard the Chairperson of the Committee on Budget and Appropriations saying that we have put about Ksh7 billion in the fertiliser subsidy. When those crops are harvested from the farms, these farmers need to trade with that commodity because many of them, especially where I come from in the Rift Valley, store the maize in their stores where it ends up being eaten by weevils and after seven months that harvest is a waste.

The Comex system, which is a trading platform and the Warehouse Receipt System would have allowed farmers to trade with their crops and get money to do the next crop cycle as they wait for the prices of their crops to go up. When we remove that development expenditure completely from the Budget and give that money to, I do not know where, then we are not looking at the full cycle of development of a country where we need to take care of the farmers.

We are also talking about creating employment for the youth and a lot of those employment opportunities were within the trade sector because most of the sectors are talking about Micro, Small and Medium Enterprises (MSME), industrialisation and investments. The Committee on Trade had already looked at most of the issues that are going to help the young people get employment. Looking at the rationalised Budget that is before the House today, most of the amendments or recommendations that have been brought by the Committee on Trade have already been ignored, and a new set of recommendations have come without consideration to the employment creation that we were trying to look at, at the time we were doing the rationalisation of the Budget. For example, the Hustler Fund which is a revolving fund, much as it had been given some money, we took a small portion of that to put into projects like Constituency Industrial Development Centres (CIDC) and other related projects that will help us within the constituencies to create employment to our youth, but that has already been rationalised.

I support the rationalisation, but I think certain issues should have been looked at because as a Committee, we sat with the State departments and SAGAs to rationalise this Budget. I thank you.

Well done. The Member for Khwisero.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I also join my colleagues in supporting the Supplementary Budget I, 2024/2025. It is in the history of Kenya that we are processing a Supplementary Budget a month after the signing into law of the appropriation Budget. This is a result of the Finance Bill that the President did not sign into law, which occasioned a deficit in supporting the entire budget.

As the Chairperson has alluded to, despite the challenges that are there, the financial gap and the deficits, the Budget strives to ensure that the 46,000 JSS teachers who have been working on contractual terms are confirmed on permanent and pensionable basis. On intern doctors who have been on the streets demanding to be posted, this Budget has provided funds to ensure that they are accommodated on the payroll. There are doctors and medical workers who were contracted during the COVID-19 pandemic and have been working on contractual terms. This Budget has provided funds to ensure that they are also absorbed on the payroll. Hon. Temporary Speaker, the Budget provides for fertiliser subsidies, which will go a long way in ensuring that this country is food secure. This Budget has also provided money for the NG- CDF programmes and projects. Despite the loss of about Ksh10 million on that account, the funds are available to support the NG-CDF projects for this financial year.

However, as we laud the areas that have been allocated funds and taken care of, it disturbs my mind and I may not be an authority on matters of economics, but I think that the National Treasury technical team is failing this country. Looking at the cuts done to this Budget, the development account is losing close to Ksh137 billion. As you may know, when you reduce economic activities, the economy of that country will not grow. I do not know the wisdom that the National Treasury is bringing forward by saying that the economy of Kenya will grow by 5.5 per cent this year, when it has gone ahead and reduced about Ksh138 billion from the Budget. Hon. Temporary Speaker, the National Treasury focused more on reducing money for development funded by GoK, without, in the same measure, reducing the recurrent budget, which we think is where most money is lost. Going forward, the balance must be arrived at so that when reducing money for development, then the commensurate should be the same to the recurrent expenditure. If the Government of Kenya does not realise the money within the Financial Bill 2023, then it means that the national Government will bear the shortfall. As we move forward, it is important that the county governments are brought on board so that when the target is not realised, then together with the national Government, they share the spoils.

Lastly, Hon. Temporary Speaker, we must rationalise our expenditure, but touching on

domestic travel and expenditure also affects the growth of an economy. I have read the Report from the National Treasury that it intends to support economic growth by supporting the service industries. However, if the money supporting these hospitality industries is reduced, then the economy will not grow. Hon. Temporary Speaker, I support. Thank you.

Thank you. Member for Alego Usonga.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I also join my colleagues in supporting the First Supplementary Estimates. These estimates have been done in response to complaints from Kenyans who do not want to be overtaxed, and also following the collapse of the Finance Bill 2024. Hon. Temporary Speaker, there have been attempts to create austerity measures. I want to assure Members - because I sit in the Budget and Appropriations Committee - that the austerity measures that have been implemented in this Budget Estimates are real. As it was suggested by Kenyans, there will be no continuous largesse in Government, especially in this House, Parliament. Parliament has been given resources to only support their operations. There are no excess allocations everywhere, even in the Executive and Judiciary. I want to ask Kenyans to support this one. Also, this is the first time that allocations to the NG-CDF have been cut, and I am happy that most Members of Parliament agree to this because they understand the implication of raising more taxes. This Budget is answering the needs of Kenyans, and going forward, I know the Government will live within its means. Hon. Temporary Speaker, the other issue that I want to address has to do with public debt because it is a fundamental aspect of this Budget. Kenyans do not want us to borrow. Kenyans are tired of these humongous loans. Therefore, Kenyans are saying that we better forego certain services, but live within our means. I know that borrowing has a lot of implications in the money market; interest rates have started to rise because of the projection that there will be a lot of borrowing going forward. I urge the Executive to do everything within our ability so as not to accumulate more debts. This is because the accumulation of more debts has the opposite effect of creating instability in the

money market and interest rates going up. If interest rates continue to go up, then the performance of an economy will be affected. Companies that need to borrow money to create jobs, will not be able to do so, and we are not going to raise more taxes. If there is anything that Parliament, the Government, and the Cabinet Secretary for the National Treasury, can do, then it has to be something to address the spiraling public debt. I know the incoming Cabinet Secretary for the National Treasury will be somebody who understands what I am talking about. I know we do not have a Cabinet Secretary for the National Treasury as we talk, but I hear an announcement will be made soon. If that announcement comes, I urge the President to nominate somebody who will address some of these fundamental questions we are raising on the Budget. Hon. Temporary Speaker, I have no doubt in my mind that Kenya is a rich country. However, if Kenya is a rich country, what is more fundamental is the way we allocate and utilise our resources. We have said that corruption eats a lot of our resources, and that is something that this House must address. This House must champion the war on corruption. There is nobody who will do it. This is the House that must do it. To ensure that this Budget is effective, I urge Members of Parliament to spearhead efforts aimed at addressing the question of corruption. Hon. Temporary Speaker, I support. Thank you.

Thank you. Member for Maragwa.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker, for giving me this chance to contribute by supporting the Committee for this overwhelming work that it did to bring the Supplementary Estimates for the Financial Year 2024/2025. Hon. Temporary Speaker, I know this was tedious work for the Committee; they needed to look at areas to cut bearing in mind that wherever the money had been allocated, there was a budget towards that. It is also a good time for Kenyans to know that if we do not pay taxes to finance the Government, then we have to forego some services and development as well. Hon. Temporary Speaker, it is also within public domain that we are talking about the debt, which is pinning the Government so far at Ksh1.8 trillion. This debt has not been incurred by the Kenya Kwanza Government because we inherited part of it from the previous administrations. Nevertheless, once a debt has been borrowed, it has to be paid. Since we are the ones who are there, we have to look at how we are going to pay. That is why the Chairman of the Budget and Appropriations Committee has stated in the highlights that in every Ksh100, Ksh61 goes to repayment of the debt. We are just left with Ksh39 which is supposed to go to payment of salaries and also development. Then it means that some projects will stall and others will take a lot of time before they are completed. Hon. Temporary Speaker, I am also happy that as we did the cuts, we looked at the healthcare sector, which is paramount. We looked into the health docket and education. Good health is paramount for all of us and our children have a right to education.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, allow me to comment on two areas, as I support our Chairperson. This is on scaling down of parastatals with similar functions so as to save the Government money. Looking at the audit reports from the Auditor-General, every financial year, we see a lot of wastage and corruption. That is why the Kenya Kwanza Government needs to address the issue of parastatals with similar functions. Sometimes, they do not get money from the Exchequer and maybe there are no donors to fund projects so they end up stalling.

Sometimes, a parastatal can enter into a contract and due to disagreements, they are taken to court by the contractor and they end up paying hefty fines. Other times, you find a contractor

was awarded, but the project was not completed. We are paying parastatal employees yet they do not deliver.

Thank you very much. Hon. Malulu Injendi.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I want to thank the Budget and Appropriations Committee for this Supplementary Budget. Unfortunately, we are revising our earlier budget due to the demonstrations in this country. We learnt during the Supplementary Budget meetings that the National Treasury came up with budget cuts across all departments without consulting the parent ministries.

For example, the Departmental Committee on Education and Research deals with basic education, TVETs, universities and TSC. When the principal secretaries appeared before that Committee, they stated that they were not consulted on the budget cuts. We are in this state and have no choice because the Financial Bill, 2024 was rejected.

I want to thank the Committee because the intern’s recruitment is continuing. We were afraid it would be discontinued. The Government promised the intern teachers that after an internship of one or two years, it would recruit. The TSC has assured us that all 46,000 intern teachers will be recruited. I also want to allay the fears raised by Hon. Lesuuda about the intern teachers who held demonstrations over the programme. We were assured by the Chief Executive Officer of the TSC that the 748 interns will be recruited together with the others.

I also want to thank the Budget and Appropriations Committee because in the Supplementary Budget, something which requires a policy shift happened, where the school feeding programme was removed from the main budget. However, the Departmental Committee on Education and Research ensured it was returned. Previously, it had been moved to the State Department for ASALs and Regional Development. I want to thank the Budget and Appropriations Committee for returning the school feeding programme to the Ministry of Education because it has infrastructure that can ensure it goes on.

Kenyans must understand that this Supplementary Budget, will not meet some of their expectations. The Chairperson has talked about electricity and the roads we had promised our constituents. This will not continue because of budget cuts. In the next Supplementary Budget in September, they should restore the money allocated to TVETs. We want all constituencies to have TVET centres so that our youth have proper training. The budget for TVETs was removed and so constituencies without them are disadvantaged. When the economy improves, TVET projects will be restored and this will ensure proper training in our country.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I support the Supplementary Budget.

Hon. Dr Pukose, Member for Endebess and the Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Health.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker for allowing me to contribute. First and foremost, I want to congratulate the Chairperson and Members of the Budget and Appropriation Committee who are seated in this House ready to contribute on the Supplementary Budget.

The Departmental Committee on Health rationalised the budget for the Ministry of Health, State Department for Medical Services and State Department for Public Health and Professional Standards. There are many challenges following the collapse of the Finance Bill, 2024 causing serious ramifications in the budget. This is because we were planning to purchase another radiotherapy machine for Kenyatta National Hospital (KNH) but this has been suspended.

The KNH has a room ready for a radiotherapy machine which cannot be procured due to lack of money. Therefore, it has only one radiotherapy machine which works day and night. If it breaks down, they will be unable to provide this service. Also, other services within the health sector had to be foregone.

There are interns who are supposed to be posted. The budgetary allocation is Ksh4.3 billion and we require an extra Ksh1.1 billion. This money will not be provided because we cannot raise it. We agreed that the ministry should post all the interns and use the Salaries and Renumeration Commission (SRC) proposed salary pay-out. Then, the Eldoret High Court ruling will inform the subsequent Supplementary Budget.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, we also have other issues like the Managed Equipment Service (MES) that is within counties. It provides for services like the CT scans; Sterile Services Department (SSD) , for operations in theatre; theatre equipment, which is operated in 97 hospitals; radiotherapy; radiography; ultrasound and other services. These services have been continuously provided, even without proper extension being done by the Ministry together with suppliers. There are also challenges from counties. County Governors have not committed themselves to take over these services because they are constrained financially.

There is also the rollout of the universal healthcare, through the primary healthcare, which has been allocated Ksh2 billion. The Emergency and Chronic Illness Fund has been allocated Ksh2 billion. The Primary Healthcare Fund has been allocated Ksh4 billion. There is also the SHIF which is supposed to be rolled out. All these are challenges that cannot be met because of rationalisation of the Budget. But all in all, with rationalisation of the Budget, we have made sure that critical services in the Ministry are not severely affected. Therefore, we have allocated money to institutions like the Kenya BioVax Institute, which is in the process of vaccine manufacturing. As we are aware, donors are in the process of withdrawing from Kenya. Therefore, as a country, we need to manufacture vaccines to prepare for any outbreak of future diseases or epidemics.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, with those few remarks, I support.

Thank you very much. Hon. Martin Peters Owino, Member for Ndhiwa.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I rise to support this Motion. I thank the Chairman of the Budget and Appropriations Committee for his prowess, knowledge and passion.

I have three items to highlight. The Chairman, the Departmental Committee on Health highlighted some items from our Committee. The first issue is that a reduction of budget does not mean that wastage, theft and duplications is taken care of. I would like to urge my colleagues in different Departmental and watchdog Committees to take up their roles. It is our responsibility to oversee so that the departments or all entities that the money is allocated to are managed well. It is good that we amended our Standing Orders so that we get reports every three months. If we stick

to that and carefully follow entities that use these monies, we will prevent wastages, theft and overlapping or duplications in implementing programmes.

The other thing I would like to talk about is the National Treasury. As we speak, for the Financial Year 2023/2024, most Ministries and Departments have done 50 to 60 per cent because of the delay of disbursement from the Exchequer. That frustrates programmes and also invites overrun costs in projects. So, whoever will be the next Cabinet Secretary should note that the budget is one thing but releasing money on time is another. This also makes these entities incur more money in running the projects.

The other issue that we thank the Budget and Appropriations Committee and the Chairman of my Committee for is what they have alluded to us access to health. Indigents in this country are increasing every hour and day because of poverty and other related factors. The Ksh8 billion allocated to SHIF must be used properly to make sure access to health care for Kenyans, especially those on the lower segment of generation is taken care of. This is because if they do not access medical attention early, chances of disease progression are higher. This will make people deal with complications which take more money to manage than when they are detected late.

We also need to talk about education. A lot of money has been allocated to education. There is an allocation of Ksh650 billion. But in my constituency, Ndhiwa, we hardly see what this money does in terms of capitation. I do not know about other constituencies. But the money is disbursed little and late. We only see infrastructure in schools funded by the NG-CDF. This is why we are crying here that even if we reduce allocation to NG-CD, it is what works for education. So, I would rather take money from the main Ministry and give it to NG-CDF to build classrooms more than put that much money there. I have a concern there.

We have also put some money in manufacturing units. But, we need to do more, especially under health, on research. Kenya Medical Research Institute (KEMRI) has suffered some reduction in budget. We have saved some money for vaccine, but I think, we need to do more.

Lastly, let me touch on equity and fairness. The people of Ndhiwa pay debts on infrastructure but in my constituency, the roads are very poor yet they are always paying taxes. This is public money and it must be shared equitably. When people of Ndhiwa pay taxes, they also need to have good roads. Through centralisation, we have good roads in Nairobi and other urban areas but in rural areas, there is nothing yet they are repaying the loans as well. That is unfair.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I support.

Hon. Dan Mwashako, Member for Wundanyi.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. First, let me say that I support the Report of the Budget and Appropriations Committee as tabled on the Floor of the House this morning by the Chairman, Hon. Ndindi Nyoro.

I would like to speak on one recommendation that has been made by the Budget and Appropriations Committee. This speaks to the fiscal responsibility principle of having over 30 per cent of our Budget allocated to development expenditure. As we speak, the circumstances we find our country in, the Budget and Appropriations Committee has agreed with the National Treasury to reduce the development expenditure by a whopping Ksh107 billion. This translates to about 28 per cent of our Budget that goes to development expenditure. According to our Public Finance Management Act, it mandates that in every year’s Budget, a minimum of 30 per cent budget goes to development. We have recommended that in the next Budget Policy Statement, to be done in February 2025, the National Treasury must adhere to the principle of where a minimum of 30 per cent goes to development. I say this because we know that for our economy to grow, we must have

economic activity happening in the country. What we are doing today in reducing expenditure on development means that there will be little money in circulation. That will affect our aggregate demand and therefore we may not achieve the development aspirations that this country aspires to achieve.

Therefore, the Executive, must create a conducive environment for the private sector to prosper, do business without interruptions and create jobs that have been elusive. I am saying this because we have a higher deficit. We had anticipated to have a 3.3 per cent deficit this Financial Year but because of what happened to the Finance Bill, 2024, the deficit has increased to almost

at a debt mix of 47 per cent internal borrowing and 53 per cent external borrowing in foreign financing. This must be looked at very keenly. As we borrow internally, we should be awake to the fact that any further borrowing will aggravate interest rates which will go up. As we go for foreign borrowing, we should not do it under commercial terms which are extremely difficult for the country. The Government should make sure that any borrowing is concessionary but not under commercial terms. The biggest challenge we have today is because we borrowed expensive loans such as Eurobond. We are suffering today because of paying interest rates that are in excess of a trillion shillings.

I commend the Budget and Appropriations Committee for ring-fencing money for the employment of intern teachers and medical interns. As a country, we must put all our resources to where they matter most. Our young people do not have jobs. Some of them volunteer to work as teachers, doctors, and even at public service. We must create employment and allocate more resources to this.

As I conclude, we may have to wait more for our roads to be constructed and electricity to reach our villages. However, as we do this, the Government must go out there and assure Kenyans that the roads that had been started, at some point in the next financial year, will be completed. We had promised Kenyans that we would connect electricity in every constituency.

Hon. Gichimu Githinji, Member for Gichugu.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker, for giving me this opportunity to contribute.

I thank the Budget and Appropriations Committee led by the very able Hon. Ndindi Nyoro for the work well done. Kenyans spoke loudly and clearly that they want to live within their means. This Parliament had very good intentions in passing the Appropriations Bill which was to take care of very many projects that were pro-Kenyans. Some of them included the budget for electricity that was supposed to benefit each and every constituency in this country. However, that has fallen by the side, subsequent to the withdrawal of the Finance Bill, 2024. After listening to Kenyans, the President took that action. However, I believe every Member of this House meant well for Kenyans.

I applaud and thank the Budget and Appropriations Committee for retaining money for the employment of JSS interns. I believe the Government should come up with a policy for TSC. When employment opportunities for teachers will be available going forward, interns should be given priority because they have already gone through the internship. Instead of taking very fresh people,

they should absorb the interns first, so that other people can also be accommodated through the internship and then employed permanently.

Parliament should take very seriously and put emphasis on programmes that support the youth of this country because they are the present and future. This will enable them to be empowered to access job markets through proper training and internships that become available.

I have also seen that the Budget and Appropriations Committee has tried to put some money into ongoing projects. This is the way to go. Where we already have existing projects, we do not need to start new ones and create elephant projects all over the country. Priority should be given to ongoing projects, so that they can be completed and Kenyans can benefit from taxes they have already paid.

In this regard, I am happy because one of the projects that is ongoing in my constituency, the Gichugu Technical and Vocational Education and Training (TVET), has already been considered for completion. It will give opportunities to young Kenyans and Generation Z to be trained in areas they can employ themselves. All Kenyans will not be absorbed into white-collar jobs in this country. The way forward is to train young people to be self-employed.

As I wind up, all Government institutions and accounting officers should also take responsibility in accounting and accountability of public resources so that every coin can be put into proper use. With those few remarks, I support the Motion.

Hon. Anthony Oluoch, Member for Mathare.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I rise to make my comments on the Supplementary Estimates that have been tabled.

Firstly, allow me to make some few comments on what I think are good points and gains in this Motion. I am happy to hear that in the Ksh650 billion that have been reserved for education, we will secure permanent and pensionable employment of all the 46,000 JSS intern teachers. I am keen to find out, which I did not hear, whether the school feeding programme has been secured in this Supplementary Budget.

In the health sector, I am happy to hear that about Ksh3.7 billion has been placed aside to ensure that intern doctors will be absorbed. However, I listened very carefully to the Chairman of Budget and Appropriations Committee when he talked about the SHIF. He said that healthcare will almost be free. I want to find out what this exactly means. The impression we were given and which has been represented by the Executive is that my father who suffers from cancer and takes up bills every three months from our pockets and his savings will not do so when SHIF is implemented. I will be keen to see that the Supplementary Budget will cover all these people with chronic illnesses, including my father who suffers from cancer.

In the agricultural area, I am happy to hear that billions of shillings have been set aside for fertiliser. What I have not heard are measures that have been put in place to ensure that the sort of fertiliser scam that was reported in the last financial year will not take place.

I want to make a point to support the Vice-Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Trade, Industry and Cooperatives, in relation to how the Budget and Appropriations Committee and National Treasury engage committees. This House adopted a parliamentary system where committees engage in extensive public participation. Those extensive public participations must mean something as a Member of the Departmental Committee on Trade, Industry and Cooperatives. I agree that in the area of employment, and there has been a lot of agitation by our young people out there, the Gen Zs, on opportunities, governance issues, the ability or inability of

this Government to put money where there are jobs... Where these jobs could be found is in the informal sector.

The Chairperson was correct, and I agree, that about three million Kenyans are in the formal sectors out of the 50 million Kenyans. What happens to all the other people who are not in the formal sector? It, therefore, behooves this House, and especially the Budget and Appropriations Committee, to have considered all the recommendations that were made by the Departmental

Committee on Trade, Industry and Cooperatives which they disregarded. We removed monies from

I want to give him another chance, Hon. Members.

On a point of order, Hon. Temporary Speaker.

Vice Chairperson, Budget and Appropriations Committee, what is out of order? The Vice-Chairperson shall be heard in silence. Please proceed.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, every Member choose where to vie. I do not know who advised the Member to vie in Nairobi. You had the choice to vie anywhere else so that you can be paid mileage. Is he in order?

What is out of order, Vice Chairperson Budget and Appropriations Committee?

He chose to vie in Nairobi.

There is nothing out of order, Hon. Mary Emaase. We will proceed to hear from Hon. Agnes Pareyio, the Member for Narok North.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker, for giving me this opportunity to support the Supplementary Budget with amendments.

I want to thank the Committee for considering issues that are affecting our people directly. I support the amendments. I also want to congratulate them for retaining the money that was supposed to hire the intern teachers so that we can have teachers in our schools. This is a group of

teachers who have really suffered. They applied for a job with the hope that they were going to be permanent and pensionable only to come and receive the amount of money that they received which was not enough to cater for their transfer to the schools they are in. I want to thank the Budget and Appropriations Committee for considering the teachers.

The health sector has also been considered. We have health officers who are on the roads trying to fight for their rights. The Committee has really done a tremendous job by considering them so that they can also get their salaries and rights.

On the issue of fertilisers, it will also solve the problems our farmers have. Farmers will get a very good yield out of having their fertilisers subsidised. Thus, they will take care of their families. The coolants are also a good suggestion. These coolants will put money into women's pockets. They will be selling their milk and earn a living out of that. For these reasons, I support the Supplementary Budget.

Thank you.

Thank you, the Member for Narok North. Hon. Wilberforce Oundo, Member for Funyula.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I support the Supplementary Bill, 2024.

It is, indeed, an interesting situation we find ourselves in. It is unprecedented because we are preparing a Supplementary Bill even before we implement the Bill that we passed just a few days ago. This goes to tell us the vanity in which we find ourselves in. That we fail to listen to the people of Kenya who elected us to come here and go to serve other masters. There are people who sent us to this place. We would not be here if we had been serious. The cuts being indicated here are substantial. These indicates all along, as we have always suspected, there is wanton waste in the Executive. We can actually run this country without this wastage.

We hope this Supplementary Budget and the scare that has been meted towards Kenya Kwanza Government by the Gen Z protests and all the Kenyans of goodwill, will send them back to the drawing board and sincerely rationalise the budget.

(Loud consultations)

All along, the narrative that we were being told is that the impugned Finance Bill was supposed to raise Ksh364 billion and therefore the deficit, the cuts that were supposed to have undertaken on this budget should have been equal to Ksh364 billion. When you look at the summary included in the second schedule attached to this Supplementary Bill, it is Ksh146 billion that is being cut. The Chairman of the Budget and Appropriations Committee and the Chairman of the Departmental Committee on Finance and Planning have not told us how they intend to raise the additional Ksh200 billion. Where is the money coming from? Are we going to delve deeper into borrowing yet he has clearly explained that a debt payment and interest payment is taking a whole 65 shillings for every ksh100 that we collect? Hon. Temporary Speaker, there is too much in our consultation here. Can you protect me? I cannot even hear…

Hon. Members, I would like the Member on the Floor to be heard in silence. I am told that the matters that they are consulting on touches on you. so please, proceed but the consultations shall be lower.

Okay, Hon. Temporary Speaker. Let me repeat. The Budget Appropriation Committee has clearly told us the budget cuts is Ksh146 billion.

We were told that the impounded Finance Bill was to raise Ksh364 billion. There has been no explanation on how we are going to raise the difference of close to Ksh200 billion. Are we going back into borrowing? He has said that for the amount we have borrowed so far, we are using Ksh65 for every Ksh100 we collect to pay debts.

Are we going to dig deeper into debts? Are we disregarding the simple theory that when you are in a hole you stop digging? Are we digging deeper and deeper?

Thirdly, we appropriate money. The entire appropriated funds are hardly ever disbursed to MDAs. As we stand here, we are told Ksh30 billion was never disbursed to counties last year. The NG-CDF itself has about Ksh13 billion. If you go through all State departments, you wonder whether we budget for the sake of it or we are serious in our budget-making process. Do we make avenues to keep on piling pending bills so that we benefit from interest charges and court awards?

As we propose and support, it is time to go back and look at the budget-making process in this country.

Well, thank you. In the absence of Hon. Johana Ng’eno, this chance will go to Hon. Rebecca Tonkei who is the Member for Narok.

Thank you for giving me this opportunity to support the Supplementary Budget I. I support this Budget. Many things go into it.

I thank the Budget and Appropriations Committee’s Chairman for making a very good presentation on the Supplementary Budget. Some of us are very excited about the Ksh650 billion that goes to the education sector. It is encouraging that every student in JSS will get Ksh10,000 per year because many parents cannot afford to pay for their children to be in school. There is also the 46,000 interns employed on contract for the last one-and-a-half years. Many interns, especially all over the country, have been talking about when their confirmation is going to be. I thank the Budget and Appropriations Committee for agreeing with the Departmental Committee on Education and Research to have the 46,000 intern teachers, in JSS and some in primary schools, confirmed. We know there are 4,000 intern teachers in primary schools and another 42,000 in JSS.

There is secondary schools’ infrastructure. We all know that we struggle much to get classrooms for our students. They are overcrowded. Having this allocation in the Budget is also a very good thing by the Budget and Appropriations Committee. The school feeding programme where we have a Ksh3 billion allocation is another encouraging thing. It is very good and it has been captured. We thank God for that. Budget and Appropriations Committee, thank you.

The Kenya Kwanza Government is talking about a bottom-up economic approach. Farmers are going to get subsidised fertilisers. Therefore, we are going to get a bumper harvest for our people.

We have an increase in salaries for police. Most of us, even Members of Parliament, know that our security officers serve us a lot. I was privileged to have been married to a gentleman who was an inspector of police, the late Inspector Joshua Tonkei. Some of us know how much these people earn. The peanut salaries policemen earn is heart breaking. It is good when we get them some increment. These people do a lot. They protect us while we are sleeping. They are on our borders protecting the country. They go through a lot of pressure and stress while their families cannot even afford to put food on the table, let alone their children going to school. This is encouraging. Coming from the background of being married to a policeman, I support this Budget for that.

There are cooling systems. I was privileged when the President visited my county and he promised to give me 30 cooling systems. These will go to all women so that they afford to take their milk for preservation. There is an increase of money to the Kenya Cooperative Creameries

(KCC), to about Ksh500 million, so that women get payment of Ksh50 per bottle. It is only in Kenya where a bottle of water is more expensive than a bottle of milk.

I support the Budget. Thank you.

Thank you very much, Hon. Tonkei. Thank you for also taking that opportunity to reflect on the experiences of police officers, and of course, citing your late husband. Hon. Members, I give this opportunity to the Hon. Lesuuda. Please proceed.

Thank you for giving me this opportunity. I take this opportunity to congratulate the Chairman of the Budget and Appropriations Committee and the entire Committee for putting in many hours to ensure we have the Supplementary Estimates I presented in this House by the time we opened the House. This is only day two.

I just want to make a few points. First, is that we, as a country, are experiencing extraordinary times. This calls for extraordinary measures. For the first time in the history of Kenya, we have a Supplementary Estimates I even before we start implementing the Budget we passed before we went for recess. Kenyans occasioned this by speaking to us as leadership—from the topmost, the President, all the way to us in the National Assembly and the Senate, counties, and even Members of County Assemblies. They told us they did not want to be overtaxed. They want value for their money as they are taxed. That is why His Excellency the President did not assent to the Finance Bill. That is why we have, as a Committee and a House, revised and rationalised the Budget to fit the shoe we are wearing as a country. We have, as a Committee, looked at austerity measures.

As leaders, Kenyans have again told us that we should not talk to them about austerity measures cosmetically, by just saying that we have cuts. We are seeing memos that there will be no travel, tea or flowers. They want to see it happening. They do not want us just to say we will not travel yet they find out that we sneaked out of the country and travelled. They want to see us doing exactly that when we say there is no travel by parastatal officers, Members of Parliament and the Executive. Of course, there will be essential travels where, for example, our country has to give a country position to the Pan African Parliament (PAP) or the Inter-Parliamentary Union (IPU) . Probably, there are areas we must visit as a country. When we travel, they also want to see no excess baggage of persons adding no value. For example, participants have missed on lists when we go for sports then joyriders get the merchandise free to go there and enjoy themselves. They go out, send photos, and have a field day when they go for the World Cup and things like that. Kenyans have said they do not want to see such things.

We as a House will be doing our proper oversight. We will not play any tribal card of a person coming from my county or area with any member in the Executive doing that. We would rather lose our political seats than go against what Kenyans want.

Quickly to the issues in the Budget that I am happy about, I must credit the Budget and Appropriations Committee and the Government. When we were doing cuts, they did not so much touch the things that directly affect the common man. I am happy about that. For example, there was a lot of agitation, even in the letter that the National Treasury wrote to us before we went on recess, that if we reject the Finance Bill, the Government will not employ JSS teachers. I thank the Government and the Budget and Appropriations Committee (BAC) for ensuring that that does not happen and that JSS teachers will be employed. We have allocated Ksh8 billion to the Equalisation Fund. I am also happy with this Government because, for the first time, every financial year, the Fund is prioritised and money disbursed. The School Feeding Programme is also in this Budget.

Lastly, money has been set aside for processing of hides and skins. Kenyans have talked about equity. We cannot have money going into the coffee and tea sub-sectors only. Even pastoralists in this country count because they also pay taxes. I am happy that money has been set aside for skins and hides. It means that one economic sector in the pastoralist region will now get money. For that reason, I support.

Hon. Amos Mwago, Member for Starehe.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker, for this opportunity to weigh in on this matter. From the outset, I congratulate the Chairman of the Budget and Appropriations Committee for the recommendations on the budgetary cuts. This has resulted from the agitation that the public meted on us, as Parliament and the Government as a whole. It is now time we should think about the principle of the three arms of Government, that is, the Legislature, the Executive and the Judiciary.

The view of the public is that our arm of Government is performing dismally and is purportedly being controlled by the Executive, which we should be overseeing. That is an issue that we should bring to the Floor of the House and discuss what our role as Parliament is. This is because we seem to have been overridden by the Executive in our mandate to oversee it.

Some of the areas in which budgetary cuts have been effected are issues that had been raised by the public and were addressed by the Executive. Issues of the offices of the First Lady, Second lady and the office of the wife of the Prime Cabinet Secretary were raised by the public and were addressed by the Executive. They are issues that we, as Parliament, should have looked into before they got to the public glare.

We have also missed on some of the priorities on the budget cuts. Kenyans are saying that there is a big loophole in the expenses made by the Government and State officers. The people are addressing the giant issue of corruption. They are saying that those are the areas in which we should have budgetary cuts. But, it is very shameful that because we did not pass the Finance Bill, now we have resulted to cutting budgets for very critical areas. The Chairman of the Departmental

Committee on Health has just stated that there is a machine that was supposed to be bought by

projects and affordable housing. We tend to introduce new projects while we still have so many pending projects.

In my constituency alone, there are the Jeevanjee Housing Project, Pangani Housing Project, and the Starehe Point Housing Project that was launched by the President but has not taken off. This is the case and yet we are still planning and allocating money for development of more affordable housing! Even the ones that had been started by the previous regime are not yet done. These are some of the issues that we need to look into and address. We need to respect our middle class and the people paying taxes in informal sectors. We cannot increase taxes on imports into this country.

Hon. Silvanus Osoro, the Member for South Mugirango.

Thank you very much, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I also support the Report by the Budget and Appropriations Committee. We are living in very interesting times, especially economically. It requires us to take a lot of measures so as to live within our means, in fact, even our personal lives. Members of Parliament and people in public service have been accused of living large. It is now time that as we talk about national budget cuts, we also talk about budget cuts in our personal homes and our way of life in terms of operations.

The challenge this country has had is allowing Ministries and Departments to put in the Budget some very useless things that can be avoided. When I was watching yesterday’s debate by the economic team on one of the mainstream media, one person raised a very important issue. That you can find a Ministry or a Government office purchasing a bottle of water at Ksh800. Those are some of the questions that people are raising out there. How is it that we sometimes want to talk about raising funds when some people in offices live large? These budget cuts are very sensitive in this particular season.

When we were listening to different Government Departments and Ministries and looking at the faces of the people presenting and seeking to have their budget cuts reinstated, we would wonder and were tempted to ask them: where do you want the Government to raise money from? Because it is in this House that we had differences in regard to pushing for the Finance Bill. We heard what the public said about the Finance Bill that was to raise a certain amount of money, and this had to flow down to the budget cuts. However, you would find officers from some Departments approaching us as they appeared before different committees. I am sure the Chairman of the Budget and Appropriations Committee can confirm. You saw people appearing with very weak faces saying, “How do you want us to operate?” It is about time we cut everything, like what the Budget and Appropriations Committee has done. I know it was not very easy because you look at one thing and realise that it is important. You look at another vote and realise that it is also very important. A good example is the recruitment of the JSS teachers. Also, we saw the way police officers were overwhelmed by protesters the other day. That displayed the fact that we need more manpower in the security sector.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, looking at the challenges in schools, we need new classrooms in JSS. I really think the Budget and Appropriations Committee has a lot of explanation to make on the budget cuts on education. I think Ksh12 billion or rather Ksh10 billion is a little too high in terms of a cut. Maybe we ought to have challenged one area of the cuts and put more emphasis on education because of the schools' needs. So, these challenging times require people to tighten their belts because it is not easy to live normally in abnormal times.

Even in this House, there are things that will be affected. We are not going to have foreign travels as much, you know. Our members of staff that needed a bit of some pay rise will also be

affected. This must go out in the public so that people get to know that Members of Parliament are also affected. There is a perception out there that Members of Parliament live large and there is need to cut their salaries. Please, confirm to them that we are now also affected. It is not only the ministries that have been affected, but even Members of Parliament, that is, from staffing to their operations. We have accepted it. Thank you.

Let us have the Hon. Babu Owino, the Member for Emabakasi East.

Thank you very much Hon. Temporary Speaker. I rise to support this Budget on the following grounds: we need, as a nation, a Budget that is based on development and not on recurrent expenditure. This is because we need our children to go to school, employ more teachers and doctors, purchase medicine for hospitals, and develop different regions. We need industries that can employ our young men and women in this nation. We do not need a blotted Budget that is favouring patrimonialism. I mean a Budget where a Cabinet Secretary was buying a python belt at Ksh800,000 and crocodile shoes at Ksh2 million and he dared to say that he has a weakness for finer things! This Budget is going to cater for the interest of Kenyans because we must cut our coat according to our size.

On a point of order.

I have a point of order, Hon. Babu Owino, from Hon. Cynthia Muge. What is out of order, Mheshimiwa?

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I am just wondering if the Hon. Babu Owino is in order to mention that whatever belt or whatever watch whoever is wearing, was budgeted or was funded by the Budget of this country.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, before that Cabinet Secretary became a Cabinet Secretary...

So, what is out of order?

Statement of facts, Hon. Temporary Speaker. Can he prove that that was budgeted for in this Government's Budget?

Yes, Hon. Babu Owino, I would like you to respond to that.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, we know very well the kind of lifestyle the Cabinet Secretary was living before he became a Cabinet Secretary and we know how he was dressing, but again he went on record and it is a statement of fact, not factoids. He went on record and said that he was in possession of a crocodile belt worth Ksh2 million and his salary is not even that amount. So, the Hon. Member here should not defend such acts.

As I proceed, Hon. Temporary Speaker, please do not interrupt.

Hon. Babu Owino, I would encourage you to be factual, because you only have five minutes and I know you have a lot to say. Please, be factual. Be aware of Standing Order Number 87.

You may proceed with that in mind.

So, as I proceed with my submission, it is very clear... I want to talk about the debt question. Borrowing in a nation is not wrong, but borrowing to fund recurrent expenditure is wrong. Borrowing to sponsor patrimonialism is wrong and borrowing to steal that money in terms of corruption is wrong. Any money borrowed on those lines becomes unproductive debt, which is not beneficial to our nation.

With regard to borrowing, Franco Modigliani, an Italian-American economist, clearly came up with theories of consumption, to be precise, a life-cycle hypothesis. He came up with the idea of the debt system, that you should borrow what you should enjoy in 70 years to come. You can enjoy it now. Borrow and enjoy it now, as you repay on a quantum merit basis. So, borrowing is not wrong, but borrowing for corruption is wrong. So, I stand to support this Budget because the Generation Z spoke. The Generation Z are in universities and they need their varsity fees to be reduced. The Generation Z need to be employed, because these are people who have graduated, but there are no jobs.

Thank you.

The Hon. Omboko Milemba, the Member for Emuhaya.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. Whereas I have a lot of respect for the Budget and Appropriations Committee and its Chair, and the work it did despite the fact that we have several challenges that required budget-cuts, I would really want the Committee to listen to me carefully. When you look at the Budget which was supposed to be mutilated because of the fact that the Finance Bill had not gone through, it was very important that we prioritise things which must be achieved.

When you are not having enough money in your home, you must go for the necessities. Hon. Members, in one of the pages in this Budget there is the Teachers Service Commission budget. So, whereas we are celebrating that we have employed all the JSS teachers, which costs Ksh18.5 billion, there was an agreement between the teachers of Kenya and the Government of Kenya in what was called the Collective Bargaining Agreement (CBA) . It was signed and deposited in court some time last year. The Government of Kenya paid the teachers half of what was agreed upon, which was about Ksh13 billion. The remaining Ksh13 billion was to be paid in this financial year. If you look at the budget of the Teacher Service Commission, you will realise that its recurrent expenditure has been cut by exactly Ksh10 billion. It means that all the teachers of Kenya are not going to get their full CBA as had been agreed by the Government.

Now, the Chair of BAC, if he is anywhere here, let me tell you this: what you are doing to this country, which is already going through various demonstrations by both the young people and other groups, is that you are actually going to draw all the 400,000 teachers of Kenya out on the streets. You have allocated their money to roads and, possibly, to other things, which otherwise would have waited as we clear with the teachers. The teachers were looking forward for the following four things in this Budget, which are not forthcoming.

Number one is the Phase II of the CBA, which is costing Ksh13.5 billion and it has been removed. Number two is a medical cover for teachers, which has been in existence and which was Ksh15 billion. That too has been cut. Number three was promotion of teachers, which had been given Ksh1.5 billion and which, again, I can see is not in the Budget.

Lastly, of course, is the issue of employment of the JSS teachers, which we have achieved. Now, what are we doing to our country? Already we are in a mood of riots and demonstrations and now you want to draw all the teachers on the streets! In fact, the leadership within the BAC... I wish the Chair was here. This is a step of trying to incite teachers of Kenya to get out of class and go to the streets.

The teachers have been patient knowing that their package will be in this Budget. Therefore, I want to ask you Hon. Members, because this will affect you, starting next week and the following week... I do not see us going anywhere because this matter will affect us in our constituencies.

We must make an amendment to this Budget to include the Ksh13.5 billion that was in the CBA of the teachers. The economists are here. I have already talked to them. No, we do not need to borrow because there are places where we can prioritise. Why would we be building a road and not pay teachers? The roads can wait for tomorrow, honestly. So, let us be very realistic when we shall look at the next step of this matter, so that we get Ksh13.5 billion for the teachers. Otherwise, even those of us who have been enjoying some limelight because of one or two things, the teachers will be on the streets against us. The JSS teachers will be there, but the rest of the 400,000 teachers will go to the streets and this is not what we require at this time. The Chairman of the Budget and Appropriations Committee and his leadership cannot incite teachers as we observe. Hon. Members, help to revert this so that teachers get their share.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker.

Yes.

Next is the Member for Embakasi South.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker, for giving me this opportunity to contribute to this important Motion on the Report of the Budget and Appropriations Committee on its consideration of the Supplementary Estimates for the Financial Year 2024/2025. We live in very hard and challenging economic times, and as a country, we must learn to live within our means. I am glad that the Budget and Appropriations Committee has reduced the Budget to what is affordable without increasing taxes for Kenyans. We are glad that the Budget and Appropriations Committee has included funds for the absorption and employment of the JSS teachers countrywide.

One of the things that is lacking in this Budget are the funds for the School Feeding Programme meant for kids in the slum areas. We have noticed that there are funds for the School Feeding Programme in ASAL areas but I can assure you most of the students and parents in the slum areas are actually poorer than the people living in the ASAL areas. We urge the Budget and Appropriations Committee to include the School Feeding Programme for slum areas in the next Budget.

There is need to allocate funds for additional classes in schools in Nairobi County. The reason is that when people graduate from school, they come to look for employment, get married and have their kids in Nairobi. The population of Nairobi has grown from what it was about seven to eight years ago at 2.5 million people to about 5.5 million as per the last election. I am sure the number will rise to about seven million people yet the size of land is not growing and the demand for schools is increasing every year.

I support.

Next is the Member for Karachuonyo, Hon. Andrew Okuome.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. We all know where we are coming from. The Finance Bill of 2024 was rejected by the President and the people of Kenya. If we are not careful, we may generate another problem. These estimates must address the feelings of the people. The cost of living, the cost of manufacturing and the cost of business are the causes of the problems we have in Kenya. We are addressing these issues because

they are responsible for employment. If we do something that will encourage investment, we will be creating employment and, therefore, solving the problems of Kenyans.

People want to see the impact of taxation. I urge the Chairman of Budget and Appropriations Committee not to interfere with NG-CDF because that is where people are feeling the impact of what the Government is doing. If we reduce NG-CDF allocation, we will be reducing the number of children we can educate; we will be reducing the number of classrooms we can build to encourage education; and, we will be telling the public that we are not addressing their issues fully. There are many areas we can reduce without creating a public outcry. I agree with my colleague who has spoken. He is a trade unionist in the teaching service, and therefore, what he says comes from practical experience. I urge us not to reduce any allocations to the general public.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, on borrowing, we are still doing it yet we have been told it is the real cause of the problems in Kenya. I really urge we do not borrow again because it is going to cause us problems. People are going to say, “But this is what caused the problem.” They will continue protesting in the streets. I urge that we do not borrow even if it means further reduction of non-essential expenditure. Let us go for that alternative.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker.

Next is the Member for Kesses, Hon. Julius Rutto.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker, for giving me an opportunity to also contribute to the ongoing discussion on the Supplementary Budget I. We are all aware that we are here because of the unprecedented events that took place. It has caused us now, even prior to operationalising the Financial Year 2024/2025 that just commenced in this month of July, to discuss what will we do to ensure that we run the country. It has been very exciting listening to contributions by Hon. Members. Some of us are now realising the reality of the discussions about funding expenditures meant to further our desire for development, inclusivity, and equitable distribution of resources. We are currently discussing how we are going to manage by reducing what had already excited our intention.

It is at this point that we need to speak to ourselves. Talking generally on the aspect of financial management and the clear agenda that the Kenyans are speaking to us, we need to focus. There are many things that we need to speak about, but top on the agenda is the need to call ourselves to a meeting. The reality of every person in governance, that is, from the President, Cabinet Secretaries, Heads of Departments, Semi-Autonomous Government Agencies, parastatals and devolved government units, is that we are faced with limited resources. Looking at the Budget that we are discussing now, Ksh1.2 trillion is earmarked for a first charge called repayment of debt without discussing the retirement of the principal amount of debt. That is our reality. It is at this point that Kenyans are agitating to be considered so that we have equal opportunity to access even the little resources to support our lives. We are looking at economic agendas that are going to spur the growth of our economy but we are now lamenting how we cannot support more borrowing yet the deficit of what we need is taking us in that direction. We cannot finance the existing debts or support our economy by allowing our commercial banks to redirect the resources directly to the economic growth. We are pulling from our commercial banks to support the day-to-day needs of the Government, especially the repayment of debt.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I rise on this point and request that it is now time that we evaluated our little resources. I want to speak more on the A-in-A. The Report of the Budget and Appropriations Committee is raising a concern that during the Budget-making process, Agencies, Semi-Autonomous Government Agencies (SAGAS) and Ministries, Departments and Agencies (MDAs) were not making a full disclosure on what they are collecting as A-in-A. It is a concern that it is only during the Supplementary Budget that they come and say that they would like their budgets to be expanded because they have realised that they have an opportunity to raise more.

We go through a lot of stress during the Budget-making process because we end up killing very many other programmes yet there are people in Government who cannot give the right information when it is required. It is at this point that I want to call on all agencies, including Parliament and the oversight committees, to extend their eyes beyond and start looking at this area.

Another issue that I want to call upon us to address is devolution, which was introduced to support our economic growth. We need to stop looking at just stretching our main Budget. Can we look at other areas that are able to generate production to support the basic needs before we begin to discuss about manufacturing, growing and removing our economy from trading to production?

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I had a lot to say but because of time, let me say that it is time that this period spoke to us. Let us be in good governance and support our economy.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker.

Thank you. Hon. Members, it is clear that this Motion has a lot of interest and it will therefore continue in another sitting.

Hon. Members, the time being