Wednesday, 24th July, 2019

Hon. Senators, I would like to acknowledge the presence in the Public Gallery this afternoon of visiting students and teachers from Bungoma DEB Primary School in Bungoma County.

In our usual tradition of receiving and welcoming visitors to Parliament, I extend a warm welcome to them. On behalf of the Senate and my own behalf, I welcome and wish them a fruitful visit.

I thank you.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I join you in welcoming the young boys and girls to the Senate today. I would like to inform them at this point in their lives, they need to be focused on their studies. More importantly, they need to think about the role that they want to play as patriots of this country, what they want to do in the future and how they plan to get there.

I am happy that the students are here in the Senate to see us perform our role of defending counties vigorously from aspects so that we ensure that the counties grow. The young people must always have a vision and always keep it in mind and strive to achieve it.

I thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I thank you for giving me this opportunity. I join you and fellow Senators in welcoming into the Senate students from Bungoma County. Bungoma is a lovely county and they are represented in this august

House by a very able and a senior Member of the Senate, hon. Wetangula. I was with him this afternoon at meetings of the Committee on Energy, Roads and Transportation and the

Committee on Agriculture, Livestock and Fisheries.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I thank you for this opportunity to join you in welcoming the students from Bungoma County. I would like to remind the visiting students that Bungoma is ably represented here by the Speaker of the Senate and Sen. Wetangula, who is a senior Member here. I challenge the students that going into the future, the good things and tidings that are coming from Bungoma County should not break. The students should produce leaders in this country.

The students have visited the Senate at a very good time when both sides of the House are united in defending devolution. This is the House that debates the issue that touch on the welfare of counties. I encourage the students to be guided by the proceedings of the Senate and be inspired to one day join the Senate or the other legislative arms of this Government to push forward the agenda of devolution in this country.

I thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I thank you for this opportunity to join you in welcoming the teachers and students from Bungoma County. As my colleagues have said, allow me to remind the students that the Speaker of this House is the former Governor of Bungoma County. That is a county that produces great people. I therefore encourage the students that they should keep up the same so that when our term comes to an end, they will take over from us.

I would like to encourage the students that it is possible to become whatever they can imagine if they only work hard in school, maintain their discipline and be focused. I encourage the students to learn more from the Senate and know our functions which include; legislation, because this is the House that makes laws to govern this country. This is also the House that takes care of the counties and their interests. We oversight and protect counties.

I am the Chairperson of the Committee on Education. I promise to continue standing with our children in schools. We shall support and protect them according to the laws of this country. I wish the students a good stay in the Senate and a happy time during their visit.

I thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I welcome the students from Bungoma County. I have an attachment to Bungoma County because I worked there while building the sewerage system for Bungoma Town. I know that the people of Bungoma are very hard working. I believe that these children are likewise very hard working. The children

should be encouraged that the Speaker of the Senate comes from Bungoma County. The same Bungoma produced a former Vice President, the late hon. Wamalwa. For that reason, these children should be aiming high.

I would like to remind the students that when one is young, they make their decisions. The former President of the United States of America (USA), Bill Clinton, made a decision to go to White House when he visited when President Kennedy was the president. In his biography, former President Bill Clinton says that he made a decision to work towards becoming the President of USA. I, therefore, encourage these students that as long as they work hard and keep God as their guide and listen to people whom they have been entrusted to like their parents and teachers, they will go far. I urge the student to remain focused.

I thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, as the Senator for Nairobi City County, allow me to welcome the students from Bungoma DEB Primary School to Nairobi City County. These students are very fortunate because Bungoma is over represented in this House by Senator number one who is hon. Lusaka and by one of the longest serving Members of this House who came to Parliament in 1992, my distinguished uncle, Sen. Wetangula.

I encourage the students that the future is ahead of them. They can be whatever they put their mind to because yourself, Sen. Wetangula, and many others including me serve as an example that in the Kenya of today, your destiny does not depend on where you are from, surname or tribe. It will depend on the content of your character and what effort you put in school. That is the Kenya we want to build where a fair shot at life is the prerogative of all.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, because of the heavy representation of Bungoma County and friends of Bungoma in the Senate, I am sure that the teachers and students will receive a heavy lunch before they leave.

Asante sana, Bw. Spika, kwa kunipa fursa hii kuwakaribisha wanafunzi kutoka Kaunti ya Bungoma. Ninawahimiza wanafunzi kwamba elimu ni msingi kwa maisha. Elimu ndio ufunguo wa maisha. Nawatakia kila la heri na kuwahimiza kutia bidii katika masomo yao.

Kama wanafunzi hawa wanavyojua, Bungoma kumetoka watu mashuhuri sana. Spika wa sasa wa Seneti alikuwa gavana wa kwanza wa Kaunti ya Bungoma. Seneta Wetangula anayewakilisha Kaunti ya Bungoma pia ni Mbunge wa miaka mingi sana. Nawasihi wanafunzi watie bidii katika masomo na watii walimu wao kwani wao ndio viongozi wa kesho.

Asante sana, Bw. Spika.

Next order.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to lay the following report on the Table of the Senate today, Wednesday, 24th July, 2019-

Report of the Standing Committee on Health on the Petition to the Senate on Health Services Conditional Grant to the County Government of Uasin Gishu. I thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Next Order.

Could we hear from Sen. (Dr.) Ali? He is not in the House, so it is deferred.

Could we hear from Sen. Sakaja?

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I beg to lay the following Paper on the Table of the Senate, today, Wednesday, 24th July, 2019: -

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I beg to lay the following Papers on the Table of the Senate, today, Wednesday, 24th July, 2019 -

Next Order.

Could we hear from Sen. (Dr.) Ali? He is not in the House so it is deferred.

Next Order.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.48 (1) , to seek a Statement from the Standing Committee on Tourism, Trade and Industry on the measures taken to protect lions which are vulnerable to extinction.

In the Statement, the Committee should-

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I want to congratulate my sister, Sen. (Dr.) Milgo, for raising this pertinent issue. Lions and wildlife are held dearly by civilised people. They killed their wildlife and they now have to visit our nations to see our wildlife. If we do not learn from history, then we will be forced to google how a lion looked like in the future.

I ask the Committee, before which this matter will be referred, to look for ways and means of sustaining the economic activities of the communities that host the wildlife. The conflict between their socio-economic activities and the wildlife is the reason for the extinction of the wild animals. In looking for a solution, we should identify an economic activity that these communities can participate in as a way of compensating them for the loss of land that is now being used to keep the wildlife.

The Senate Minority Leader (Sen. Orengo) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is a very important Statement. The population of lions, especially the African lion, is dwindling in Africa. In West and North Africa, where lions used to roam, you can hardly find the African lion. Conservationists have said that the African lion can only be found in Eastern African and some parts of South and Central Africa. If we do not take measures, in another 50 years, we may only see lions in European zoos because they know how to keep them there. Many animals that are becoming extinct in the third world can be found in the European zoos. The lion is a very iconic figure for Kenya. During the colonial days, it was part of the Coat of Arms and it has remained in the Coat of Arms even in the independent Kenya.

The population of lions in Africa is at 34,000 only. In another 10 or 15 years, we might have a population of 2,000 lions or so in Kenya and that would be a very undesirable situation. The habitat for the lions is being encroached in parts of Narok and Kajiado where they used to roam. At the moment, there is human and wildlife conflict that needs to be resolved. The amount of hunting that is going on worldwide in regard to the lion is a bit controlled as compared to that of the rhino and the elephants but the lion is undoubtedly under threat. The conservationists have identified it as an animal that needs protection but the experts have said that when the lion will be categorised as an endangered species that will be on the border line of extinction by the year 2050.

Therefore, I welcome the request for this Statement. Thank you, Sen. (Dr.) Milgo, for bringing this at an appropriate time because we take wildlife for granted. Communities who knew how to live with the wildlife are not being given the means and tools to continue taking care of wildlife and ensuring that wildlife enhance human life. The lion is now a central figure in the movies being produced in Hollywood yet we do not think of wildlife when we wake up. The Maasai Community knows how to live with wildlife and they know the importance of wildlife. They only attack them when they are a threat to life but they work hard to preserve them.

This calls for immediate action and the Ministry concerned should take care. In the meantime, the Committee should come up with a report for consideration. As far as I am concerned, this is a very important Statement.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I thank Sen. (Dr.) Milgo for bringing this Statement. It is important for us to save our wildlife especially the Big Five though it looks like we are going to lose all of them hence we need to do something.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is a very important Statement. The population of lions, especially the African lion, is dwindling in Africa. In West and North Africa, where lions used to roam, you can hardly find the African lion. Conservationists have said that the African lion can only be found in Eastern African and some parts of South and Central Africa. If we do not take measures, in another 50 years, we may only see lions in European zoos because they know how to keep them there. Many animals that are becoming extinct in the third world can be found in the European zoos. The lion is a very iconic figure for Kenya. During the colonial days, it was part of the Coat of Arms and it has remained in the Coat of Arms even in the independent Kenya. The population of lions in Africa is at 34,000 only. In another 10 or 15 years, we might have a population of 2,000 lions or so in Kenya and that would be a very undesirable situation. The habitat for the lions is being encroached in parts of Narok and Kajiado where they used to roam. At the moment, there is human and wildlife conflict that needs to be resolved. The amount of hunting that is going on worldwide in regard to the lion is a bit controlled as compared to that of the rhino and the elephants but the lion is undoubtedly under threat. The conservationists have identified it as an animal that needs protection but the experts have said that when the lion will be categorised as an endangered species that will be on the border line of extinction by the year 2050. Therefore, I welcome the request for this Statement. Thank you, Sen. (Dr.) Milgo, for bringing this at an appropriate time because we take wildlife for granted. Communities who knew how to live with the wildlife are not being given the means and tools to continue taking care of wildlife and ensuring that wildlife enhance human life. The lion is now a central figure in the movies being produced in Hollywood yet we do not think of wildlife when we wake up. The Maasai Community knows how to live with wildlife and they know the importance of wildlife. They only attack them when they are a threat to life but they work hard to preserve them. This calls for immediate action and the Ministry concerned should take care. In the meantime, the Committee should come up with a report for consideration. As far as I am concerned, this is a very important Statement.

However, we should not just focus on protection of wildlife and forget about the people who are supposed to protect the wildlife. People have lost their lives in this country and their families have not been compensated. In the last seven years, the Government has not compensated the families of those who lost their lives and those who have been affected by the wild animals. For the members of public to appreciate and benefit from the revenue generated from the wild animals, we have to bring the communities together with the KWS. In my county, we have about three to four parks and we have communities neighbouring those parks. Unfortunately, there is no interaction between KWS and the community which makes it difficult for the people to appreciate and protect the animals within their environment.

Many years ago, communities used to benefit from projects that were run by the Kenya Wildlife Service. Unfortunately, all those projects were run-down because of the revenue challenges that they are facing but it was an initiative that encouraged people to nurture wildlife. The Government and KWS should revisit those projects for the members of public to benefit. The committees, at the county level, that are supposed to compensate the families of those who lost their lives have not sat for many years and something needs to be done about that.

However, we should not just focus on protection of wildlife and forget about the people who are supposed to protect the wildlife. People have lost their lives in this country and their families have not been compensated. In the last seven years, the Government has not compensated the families of those who lost their lives and those who have been affected by the wild animals. For the members of public to appreciate and benefit from the revenue generated from the wild animals, we have to bring the communities together with the KWS. In my county, we have about three to four parks and we have communities neighbouring those parks. Unfortunately, there is no interaction between KWS and the community which makes it difficult for the people to appreciate and protect the animals within their environment.

Many years ago, communities used to benefit from projects that were run by the Kenya Wildlife Service. Unfortunately, all those projects were run-down because of the revenue challenges that they are facing but it was an initiative that encouraged people to nurture wildlife. The Government and KWS should revisit those projects for the members of public to benefit. The committees, at the county level, that are supposed to compensate the families of those who lost their lives have not sat for many years and something needs to be done about that.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I rise to support this timely Statement by Sen. (Dr.) Milgo.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Sen. Seneta, what is your point of intervention?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is not a point of order. I have been on the queue and I have just seen Sen. Olekina walking in and---

Order! Order! Senator. I consider a number of things before I give you the opportunity to speak.

Sen. Olekina, continue.

I think the Ministry ought to put huge corridor, say, of four or five kilometres long for wildlife conservation. If we do not do so, hunting will continue and our wildlife will diminish. I am concerned about this wildlife/human conflict. That is why I seeking clarification. In my Statement, I wanted the Chairperson to state the measures KWS has put in place to address the unsustainable hunting practices in wildlife management areas. Hunting is Kenya is illegal; it is not allowed.

I think the Ministry ought to put huge corridor, say, of four or five kilometres long for wildlife conservation. If we do not do so, hunting will continue and our wildlife will diminish. I am concerned about this wildlife/human conflict. That is why I seeking clarification. In my Statement, I wanted the Chairperson to state the measures KWS has put in place to address the unsustainable hunting practices in wildlife management areas. Hunting is Kenya is illegal; it is not allowed.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

What is your point of order, Sen. Poghisio?

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I do not know whether the Chair has noticed that my good friend from Narok has proceeded to deal with the Statement as though it was directed to him because he is now giving solutions.

The purpose of a Statement is---

Order! Sen. Poghisio is on the Floor. Please, resume your seat.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the whole idea of seeking for a Statement is for the relevant Committee to interrogate it. Therefore, the Senator should let the Committee do its work instead of him giving answers to issues raised here. Otherwise, it will not best serve the purpose for which it was sought. I am raising the issue of relevance of statements in this House.

Sen. Olekina, remain on course.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for giving me a chance also to add my voice to this important Statement. In the history of the Maasai Community, lions are very important animals and they are valued. It is a high time we came up with strategy of conserving wildlife in this country. We should not only conserve lions, but all the big five.

We all know that population of this country is growing. We have more people now living around our parks than before. However, our parks are not protected. With the prolonged droughts we face in this country from time to time---

Mr. Speaker, Sir, protect me from my sister, Sen. Kihika.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for giving me a chance also to add my voice to this important Statement. In the history of the Maasai Community, lions are very important animals and they are valued. It is a high time we came up with strategy of conserving wildlife in this country. We should not only conserve lions, but all the big five.

We all know that population of this country is growing. We have more people now living around our parks than before. However, our parks are not protected. With the prolonged droughts we face in this country from time to time---

Mr. Speaker, Sir, protect me from my sister, Sen. Kihika.

Order, Senator!

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I was saying that the population of this country is growing so is the population of the communities hosting wildlife. The long-prolonged droughts are also more frequent. Therefore, we need to look for a more sustainable way of conserving wildlife. How can we feed them? Nowadays wildlife is found everywhere. For example, we have some in individual ranches in Kajiado County.

I feel so reluctant to support the Statement by my sister. This is because last week, there was a Statement by Sen. Pareno in this House in which she was seeking from the same Committee to address issues to do with wildlife/human conflict in Kajiado County. It is sad that we buried two people last week as a result of wildlife/human conflict. This week, we are yet to bury another who was killed by a wildlife. The Committee has never given us answers to the Statement. I feel that the Committee is not doing its work. The issues of wildlife are very important, especially in terms of tourism in this country.

I support and urge the Committee to do its work.

Leo nilienda Lewa Marathon wanapofanyia itikadi ya kukimbia. Tulimpata simba mmoja ambaye hana mke. Hiyo yote imeletwa na uwindaji bandia. Tuliuliza na tukaambiwa ya kwamba simba huyo ni wakiume na anahangaika kutafuta mwenzake watakayeishi naye pamoja.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for giving this opportunity. I stand to support this timely Statement by Sen. (Dr.) Milgo. I am saddened as I listen to the contributions of my fellow colleagues. We are looking at wildlife as though they belong to the Government or KWS. The wildlife of this country belong to all of us. Therefore, we all have a responsibility. In fact, the number one threat to wildlife is not poaching; it is habitat loss and population growth that is blocking the migratory routes.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, a few years ago when I worked for a conservation agency, KWS had only 2100 lions. We go about our business and think that they are too many. However, 2000 lions is nothing. I have been saddened by our discussion and debate around human-wildlife conflict because we speak as though the wildlife belongs to a cage or in a Government which has a key that it can open to protect them.

Hon. Members, let us consult in low tones.

Hon. Members, let us consult in low tones.

conservation and empower communities to conserve and integrate their livelihoods with conservation.

In half a century, West Africa lost all their lions. In North Africa, in around 100 years, they have also lost all their lions. East Africa is on the blink. These are the last species on earth. I have been thinking so much about some of the things that we say and the ways in which we debate about human-wildlife conflict. We bear no responsibility to these species. We look at it at an angle of what we have lost. However, we are the ones blocking their routes and in the way of their habitant. Therefore, it is time, as leaders, we started to look at conservation a bit more broadly and look at it beyond the protected areas and poaching. This is because poaching has been contained in many ways. We still work on rhino poaching. We have just about 700 rhinos in this country.

We need to start looking at this issue. As leaders, under our watch, the last species on earth will be extinct. We are defining it from the point of view of compensation. We are not saying that human life is not important. It is important and sacred. However, let us take responsibility for the wildlife as well.

I urge this House and all our leaders to stop making certain remarks that will make the communities to arm themselves and kill animals.

I support this Bill and appeal to our leadership----

conservation and empower communities to conserve and integrate their livelihoods with conservation.

In half a century, West Africa lost all their lions. In North Africa, in around 100 years, they have also lost all their lions. East Africa is on the blink. These are the last species on earth. I have been thinking so much about some of the things that we say and the ways in which we debate about human-wildlife conflict. We bear no responsibility to these species. We look at it at an angle of what we have lost. However, we are the ones blocking their routes and in the way of their habitant. Therefore, it is time, as leaders, we started to look at conservation a bit more broadly and look at it beyond the protected areas and poaching. This is because poaching has been contained in many ways. We still work on rhino poaching. We have just about 700 rhinos in this country.

We need to start looking at this issue. As leaders, under our watch, the last species on earth will be extinct. We are defining it from the point of view of compensation. We are not saying that human life is not important. It is important and sacred. However, let us take responsibility for the wildlife as well.

I urge this House and all our leaders to stop making certain remarks that will make the communities to arm themselves and kill animals.

I support this Bill and appeal to our leadership----

Order. It is not a Bill.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity to contribute to this important Statement. We can all see that Sen. Sakaja did research about the rate at which the lions are decreasing in number. That is worrying. It is important that the Committee that will address this particular issue will have to deal with the current statistics first, so that we know how many lions exist. It is also important to know the real threat to these animals beyond the imagined. We should know the real threat to these animals, so that the problem is addressed scientifically. It will also be important to establish their current relationship with human beings.

I was lucky to visit Taita-Taveta County, and we discovered that the greatest threat to the lions by then were human beings because human conflict is not addressed effectively. It is always to the disadvantage of the human beings and their properties.

In Samburu, there is a healthy relationship between wildlife and human beings. Therefore comparatively, the Committee that will address this one should travel widely, so that they establish various strategies used by various communities closer to the animals to conserve them.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is an important Statement, knowing very well that conserving those particular animals will earn our country a lot of income in terms of foreign exchange. Therefore, it is important that we address this matter urgently.

I thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity to contribute to this important Statement. We can all see that Sen. Sakaja did research about the rate at which the lions are decreasing in number. That is worrying. It is important that the Committee that will address this particular issue will have to deal with the current statistics first, so that we know how many lions exist. It is also important to know the real threat to these animals beyond the imagined. We should know the real threat to these animals, so that the problem is addressed scientifically. It will also be important to establish their current relationship with human beings.

I was lucky to visit Taita-Taveta County, and we discovered that the greatest threat to the lions by then were human beings because human conflict is not addressed effectively. It is always to the disadvantage of the human beings and their properties.

In Samburu, there is a healthy relationship between wildlife and human beings. Therefore comparatively, the Committee that will address this one should travel widely, so that they establish various strategies used by various communities closer to the animals to conserve them.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is an important Statement, knowing very well that conserving those particular animals will earn our country a lot of income in terms of foreign exchange. Therefore, it is important that we address this matter urgently.

I thank you.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I thank Sen. (Dr.) Milgo for the Statement she sought. I am sure that before she brought this Statement, she did enough research. That is why when I rose, there was no need to be defensive about hunting that is going on in this country. You may own a private conservancy but you do not know what to do. There are issues that have been raised this Statement that are relevant at this point in time.

All tourists who come to Nairobi would like to go back at least with a photograph of a lion. In fact, if they go to a park and find no lions, that would be a dry drive. Therefore, it is important to Kenyans. That is why when it comes to conservation, the matter should be pursued to its logical conclusion.

The Committee that will be charged with this responsibility should look deeper into the issues that are threat to the lion population. I do not need to be told that lions are facing extinction. When I was growing up, there were lions all over us in Kacheliba in West Pokot. Today, there is none. It is not rocket science. All we need to know is what will happen. I hope the Committee will get to the bottom of the matter, so that we save lions from extinction.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to congratulate Sen. (Dr.) Milgo for seeking this Statement. I would like to say that this is a House of reason and we must see the grandeur of this country that God left for us. The wild animals are important to this country and there is no doubt about that. In fact, apart from lions---

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I have to interrupt my Chairperson, who is my good friend. Would I be in order to ask him to inform the House positively because he should declare his interest? He is a conserver of lions because he keeps a few. It would be positive for him to encourage us to be conservationists.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, we are all supposed to be conservationists.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, we are all supposed to be conservationists.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, in the history of our Parliament, there is a ruling that was made by none other than---

Mr. Speaker, Sir, in the history of our Parliament, there is a ruling that was made by none other than---

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

What is your point of order, Sen. Cherargei?

Mr. Speaker, Sir---

Order, Sen. (Eng.) Maina. There is an intervention by Sen. Cherargei, and I have given him an opportunity.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, would I be in order to request that we go to Division and then come back to the Statements later?

Order, Members! Let us consult in low tones.

Order, Members! Let us consult in low tones.

I was in a meeting with Maasais who are great conservationists. We had gone there to launch a water project, which was aimed to pump water from Amboseli National Park to ranches where the Maasais live to prevent them from going to the park. When the Maasais rose to speak, they told the late Hon. Oloitiptip that they are not the threat to the animals. They said that the threat to the animals are the “big people” who drive big cars in Nairobi---

I was in a meeting with Maasais who are great conservationists. We had gone there to launch a water project, which was aimed to pump water from Amboseli National Park to ranches where the Maasais live to prevent them from going to the park. When the Maasais rose to speak, they told the late Hon. Oloitiptip that they are not the threat to the animals. They said that the threat to the animals are the “big people” who drive big cars in Nairobi---

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. In parliamentary rules, we refrain from referring to communities by name. You cannot say you called the Maasais and they came. Instead, you should say “the local community.”

For the record of the House, he should refer to them generally, which is appropriate. You cannot say the Somalis did this and the Kikuyus did that because that is completely unparliamentary. However, the contributions by Sen. (Eng.) Maina are nice.

Sen. (Eng.) Maina, you need to conclude so that we make progress. As you do that, you should observe the rules of the House.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, much as I appreciate the remarks by Sen. Sakaja, I must say that it is known that the Maasais are conservationists and most of the animals are found in Maasailand.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I think you need to protect me from some of these points of order because sometimes they become unnecessary interruptions. Having said that---

Order, Members. Let us consult in low tones. The turtles are dying in Malindi because of pollution. This is a House of reason, therefore, it must rise to the occasion. Unless something is done today, we may have no wildlife tomorrow.

Order, Members. Let us consult in low tones. The turtles are dying in Malindi because of pollution. This is a House of reason, therefore, it must rise to the occasion. Unless something is done today, we may have no wildlife tomorrow.

Finally, we have Sen. Moi.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

What is it, Sen. Dullo?

Yes, it is true that there are Senators who put a lot of pressure that their matters be listed but when it comes to moving, they disappear or do not come to the House. I think we are going to come up with measures which we shall take to ensure that if you are not there and you have been pushing for your matter, then we will defer it for a very long time so that we give an opportunity to those who are around to be able to do that.

Hon. Senators, I would like to acknowledge the presence in the Public Gallery this afternoon of visiting students and teachers from Joram G M Academy School, Kajiado County.

In our usual tradition of receiving and welcoming visitors to Parliament, I extend a warm welcome to them. On behalf of the Senate and on my own behalf, I welcome and wish them a fruitful visit.

Next Order.

I order that the Division Bell be rung for two minutes.

Order, Members! I direct that the Doors be locked and the Bars drawn.

Hon. Senators, the results of the voting are as follows:-

AYES: 25 NOES: Nil. ABSTENTIONS: Nil

Second Reading

I direct that the Doors be opened and Bars withdrawn.

AYES: 25 NOES: Nil. ABSTENTIONS: Nil.

Hon. Senators, let us move to the next Order. I now direct that we consider Order Nos.10 and 11 together. That means we proceed to the Committee of the Whole.

Hon. Senators, let us move to the next Order. I now direct that we consider Order Nos.10 and 11 together. That means we proceed to the Committee of the Whole.

Hon. Senators, the results of the voting are as follows:

YES: 27. NOES: Nil. ABSTENTIONS: Nil.

Hon. Senators, the results of the voting are as follows:

YES: 27. NOES: Nil. ABSTENTIONS: Nil.

Hon. Senators, the results of the voting are as follows:

YES: 29. NOES: Nil. ABSTENTIONS: Nil.

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move that the Committee do report to the Senate its consideration of the Mental Health (Amendment) Bill (Senate Bills No. 32 of 2018) and its approval thereof with amendments.

Sen. Linturi seconded

Order, Senators. I direct the Bars to be undrawn and the doors opened.

Order Senators. We are going to have reporting by the Committee regarding the Local Content Bill (Senate Bills No. 10 of 2018) .

Order, Senators. I direct the Bars to be undrawn and the doors opened.

Order Senators. We are going to have reporting by the Committee regarding the Local Content Bill (Senate Bills No. 10 of 2018) .

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the House do agree with the Committee on the said---

Order Senators. Resume your seat Chairperson.

Could we hear from the Chairperson? Sen. Moi, you are now what the lawyers call functus officio.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to report that the Committee of the Whole has considered the Local Content Bill (Senate Bills No. 10 of 2018) and its approval thereof with amendments.

Mover, it is now your turn. You were trying to jump legislative protocol.

Nimepata kazi sasa. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the House do agree with the Committee on the said report.

Who is seconding?

Order Sen. Moi, you need to be on record.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, Sen. Omanga will second.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I second.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I second.

Mover.

Very well. We will leave that matter there. We shall be doing Division on that item together with the next item.

We need secondment.

Very well. We will leave that matter there. We shall be doing Division on that item together with the next item.

We need secondment.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I eagerly second.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to report that the Committee of the Whole has considered the Mental Health (Amendment) Bill (Senate Bills No. 32 of 2018) and its approval thereof with amendments.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to report that the Committee of the Whole has considered the Mental Health (Amendment) Bill (Senate Bills No. 32 of 2018) and its approval thereof with amendments.

Mover.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the House do agree with the Committee on the said report.

Who is seconding?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I request Sen. (Dr.) Mbito to second.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I second.

Mover.

I beg to move that the Mental Health (Amendment) Bill (Senate Bills No. 32 of 2019) be now read the Third Time.

I request Sen. (Dr.) Mbito to second. Sen. (Dr.) Mbito seconded.

Order! Sen. Omanga. You are not allowed to move during Division. You are supposed to remain in your seat and that is not your seat. You vote from your seat.

End of voting. Any assisted voters?

Order! Sen. Omanga. You are not allowed to move during Division. You are supposed to remain in your seat and that is not your seat. You vote from your seat.

End of voting. Any assisted voters?

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Order! Sen. Madzayo, what is it?

Bw. Spika wa Muda, umetoa uamuzi hapa ukasema ya kwamba sheria iko wazi kabisa kwamba ikiwa wakati wa kupiga kura, kila mtu aketi pale alipo; asitembee. Lakini sijui kama macho yangu yameona makengeza kwa sababu Sen. Linturi wa Meru alikua anatembeatembea hapa ndani. Sasa sijui kama umeona ama hukuona. Hiyo ni sawa?

Sen. Linturi, it is alleged that you were moving about the Chamber during Division. Is that true?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am really surprised that such an allegation is being made when you are the Speaker in charge and in control of this House. You see everything and---

Well, I will let the matter rest there with a general caution under Article 117. Please note what the Standing Orders say about the conduct of Senators during Division. I give that general caution to all the Senators, including Sen. Linturi.

Well, I will let the matter rest there with a general caution under Article 117. Please note what the Standing Orders say about the conduct of Senators during Division. I give that general caution to all the Senators, including Sen. Linturi.

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Order, Sen. (Eng.) Maina, how did you know? How did you know the nature of the call that Sen. Linturi had gone to make?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, you know some conclusions are easily derived from the way the action takes place. He took such a short time. He then came back and sat down to vote.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, you know some conclusions are easily derived from the way the action takes place. He took such a short time. He then came back and sat down to vote.

Order, Sen. (Eng.) Maina. There are two issues here. You have no capacity to know what Sen. Linturi was doing in the closet, if at all he was in the closet.

Secondly, you are aggravating Sen. Linturi’s situation because he said he did not leave his seat. So, I do not know whether you are for him or against him.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I really respect your judgement but truly a call of nature cannot be delayed or suspended.

Order! I am sure Sen. Linturi, you do not want to say anything.

Very well, let us move to the next item.

Order! I am sure Sen. Linturi, you do not want to say anything.

Very well, let us move to the next item.

Wambua, Kitui County; Sen. (Rev.) Waqo, Marsabit County and, Sen. Wario, Tana River County.

Hon. Senators, the results of the Division are as follows:

Hon. Senators, the results of the Division are as follows:

AYES: 28 NOES: Nil ABSTENTIONS: Sen. M. Kajwang.

I now Direct that the Doors be opened and the Bars drawn.

Where is the Senate Majority Leader? He is a no show.

What is it, Sen. Sakaja?

What is it, Sen. Sakaja?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for purposes of the record of the House, the issue of Order No.17 had been communicated. It came for public participation to my Committee and we agreed with Sen. Cheruiyot and Sen. Mwaura that it be dropped. Therefore, they are not absent without cause. That communication was made to the Speaker. The Bill is being republished under their names.

Which Bill?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Persons with Disabilities (Amendment) Bill (Senate Bills No.1 of 2019.) .

Was there some communication on that Bill?

Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. They are not absent without cause.

Is it deferred?

It is actually dropped, Sir.

Was it dropped earlier by order of the Speaker or are you dropping it from there?

Give Sen. Sakaja the microphone.

We had agreed that the Bill be withdrawn. So, it is appearing on the Order Paper erroneously.

Who agreed with whom?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, as I said earlier, it is the sponsors and the Committee, and the communication was made to the Speaker. Therefore, it appears erroneously on the Order Paper. The sponsors agreed to withdraw it and we communicated as much. I am saying that for the record, so that it does not seem they are truant.

Very well. It has been noted. Meanwhile, Order No.17 and Order No.19. The other Orders remain as I had directed.

Let us go on to Order No.21. Proceed, Sen. M. Kajwang’.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move the following Motion-

THAT, the Senate adopts the Report of the Senate Sessional Committee on Public Accounts and Investments on the Fiduciary Risk Report on audit issues by County Governments for the Financial Years 2012/13 to 2015/16. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I also wish to inform the House that this Report can be found on the online portal. It is called e-Parliament. It is a 78-page Report. Previously, we were used to getting hard copies of the report on the clerks’ Table. However, I wish to inform Members that they can peruse that Report on the iPads before them.

I want to guide Members that they might want to look at the introduction and the observations and recommendations that are found on pages 55 to 66, at the end of the Report.

These are fiduciary risks that have been identified for all the---

Order, Sen. M. Kajwang’. Did you move the Motion? You have not and yet this is your second term. Have you moved the Motion?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is listed as Motion.

Order! You have to move.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move.

Order, Sen. M. Kajwang’! Read the Motion and move on.

Order, Sen. Wetangula. You cannot conduct tutelage from the backbench.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I actually did it, but not with all the words that are there. Allow me to do it properly.

Order, Sen. M. Kajwang’. Repeat the whole process. You have to move the Motion.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have indicated that this Report is available on the online platform. Since Members are competent to read the Report, I will only cover about five issues. The other Members of the Committee will support me on the other issues.

In the past five years, the Office of the Auditor-General has submitted to Parliament about 235 reports for county executives,141 reports for county assemblies and more than 1,000 county funds and corporation reports. In total, the Auditor-General has submitted more than 1,300 reports to this House.

The Controller of Budget has also submitted 20 quarterly reports and five annual reports. I would like to take this opportunity to wish the Auditor-General and Controller of Budget - who are in their sunset periods - well as they close their business.

I also wish to urge this House to seize the moment and call for fast-tracking of the process of replacing the Auditor-General and Controller of Budget, whose terms come to a close later in the month of August.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, of the 1300 reports that have come to this House, very few have received adoption or full acceptance by the House. This is because various committees have been looking at them. Committees look at these reports individually and as a result, they fail to see the forest for the trees. The Fiduciary Risk Report that we have laid on the Table of the House puts into context all the risks that have been identified in counties, relating to management of public funds.

The Fiduciary Risk Report will not just pick Nairobi City County or Tharaka- Nithi County. It will look at all the issues that have been raised by the Auditor-General. We realized that some of the issues are cross-cutting.

In our Report, fiduciary risk has been defined as the probability that public funds are misapplied or the extent to which public funds have been misapplied. We, as a Committee, have taken the position that a global view of county risks will help the Senate to formulate national legislation and come up with policies and regulations that can cut across all counties.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Parliamentary Budget Office and our Committee clerks analyzed the Auditor-General reports for the financial years 2013 to 2016 to establish cross-cutting issues. The risks that were identified were assessed. Their impacts were analyzed and recommendations have been made for their management. If you look at our Report, from page 55, there is a table that identifies the risk and comes up with a recommendation. The Committee retreated to write and adopt the Report, which I will now take you through.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I also wish to thank the officers in the Parliamentary Budget office. In the United States of America, every legislative assembly has an office of legislative audit. This is a team of technicians that support the Public Accounts Committee. In the United Kingdom, from whom we borrow quite a number of our practice, there is the Financial Scrutiny Unit. That is also a team of analysts and professionals who do the hard work; the number crunching on behalf of the Public Accounts Committee. It then gives them a position they can now share and canvass with the witnesses that appear before them.

It is our view - we have expressed it in the past - that we either expand the mandate of the Parliamentary Budget Office to cover parliamentary audit and scrutiny, or establish another body that could be referred to as a parliamentary audit office to do the same. It will consist of a team of technicians and analysts that will support the work of the oversight Committees of this House.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, allow me to highlight some of the risks that have been identified in that Report. In the first three years of devolution, counties were generally not complying with the laws. The laws that were breached included-

It is our view - we have expressed it in the past - that we either expand the mandate of the Parliamentary Budget Office to cover parliamentary audit and scrutiny, or establish another body that could be referred to as a parliamentary audit office to do the same. It will consist of a team of technicians and analysts that will support the work of the oversight Committees of this House.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, allow me to highlight some of the risks that have been identified in that Report. In the first three years of devolution, counties were generally not complying with the laws. The laws that were breached included-

You have not moved.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move and request Sen. Olekina to second.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Nevertheless, well done, Sen. M. Kajwang’.

Order, Sen. Olekina.

Order, Senators! Concerning the

(Bill deferred)

Proceed, Sen. Olekina.

the Controller of Budget was withholding about Ksh6 billion of their money in the account.

This led us to understand that these county governments did not have a clue on the entire budgeting process. There was a very serious risk in terms of counties involving staff in the counties on the issue of financial management. Most staff who were managing these county funds had no clue of what they were supposed to do. They neither understood how they were supposed to carry out the monthly reconciliations, which the Public Finance Management Act (PFM) calls for, nor the audit process.

When these counties appeared before our Committee, the governors would try to say that they provided this information to the auditors, who refused to consider their reasons as to why the money was spent in a certain way. The problem we had with these counties is that none of the staff tasked with the accounting duty had any clue on what the law stipulated.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, Section 35 of the Public Audit Act – which was mostly abused by these counties – is very clear on the audit process. Most of the governors would appear and say that they participated in the audit process. However, they did not understand why they received a disclaimer of opinion, which was issued because of the limitation of scope. That means that no documentation was provided for audit. Some of the governors came up with the excuse of fire incidents, which destroyed all the accounting documents. These are very serious risks which led our Committee to come up with various recommendations on how we can ensure that funds forwarded to the county governments are properly utilized.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am quite happy that we are thinking ahead, even as we consider this Fiduciary Risk Report. Sen. (Dr.) Zani has come up with an amendment to the PFM Act so that all counties can have a proper system where they can record their own-source revenue. It is very serious that when you look at all these counties, they relied heavily on the shareable revenue.

the Controller of Budget was withholding about Ksh6 billion of their money in the account.

This led us to understand that these county governments did not have a clue on the entire budgeting process. There was a very serious risk in terms of counties involving staff in the counties on the issue of financial management. Most staff who were managing these county funds had no clue of what they were supposed to do. They neither understood how they were supposed to carry out the monthly reconciliations, which the Public Finance Management Act (PFM) calls for, nor the audit process.

When these counties appeared before our Committee, the governors would try to say that they provided this information to the auditors, who refused to consider their reasons as to why the money was spent in a certain way. The problem we had with these counties is that none of the staff tasked with the accounting duty had any clue on what the law stipulated.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, Section 35 of the Public Audit Act – which was mostly abused by these counties – is very clear on the audit process. Most of the governors would appear and say that they participated in the audit process. However, they did not understand why they received a disclaimer of opinion, which was issued because of the limitation of scope. That means that no documentation was provided for audit. Some of the governors came up with the excuse of fire incidents, which destroyed all the accounting documents. These are very serious risks which led our Committee to come up with various recommendations on how we can ensure that funds forwarded to the county governments are properly utilized.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am quite happy that we are thinking ahead, even as we consider this Fiduciary Risk Report. Sen. (Dr.) Zani has come up with an amendment to the PFM Act so that all counties can have a proper system where they can record their own-source revenue. It is very serious that when you look at all these counties, they relied heavily on the shareable revenue.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker, for giving me this opportunity to add my voice to the Fiduciary Risk Report. I want to thank the Committee, headed by Sen. M. Kajwang’, for the comprehensive summary they have done. I have perused the Report and, indeed, it is very technical. I hope that I can speak on it with its technicality. I will only approach three areas that I would say I can speak to with some semblance of authority. First is the misrepresentation of the county revenues.

Madam Temporary Speaker, it has been said here that the own-source revenue that is currently being collected is 10 per cent and below. We cannot understate the fact that counties have a lot of potential to collect a lot of revenue if they are a little bit more organised. In fact, looking at Part II of the Constitution on the Functions and Powers of Counties, you can see the areas listed there. I am particularly drawn to the cultural activities, public entertainment and public amenities. You can see the potential that these county governments could have, if they put their house in order. I see areas where many young people can get opportunities to express themselves and, in the process, they also generate more revenue.

Besides that, I can see the recommendation given by the Committee, that there is need for proper collection and reporting and using digital platforms. We cannot understate that digital platforms today are the best ways of mapping out, recording, and storing. We need to insist upon counties do adopt these platforms.

One day here, we were speaking on some areas where we felt that county governments need to improve. For example, we know that many county governments are now collecting a lot of revenue from liquor licensing. However, how are these funds accounted for? We can see areas where they can be used to enhance the livelihoods of Kenyans in the counties. For instance, they could be used to help in the sensitization on the use and abuse of drugs, or to come up with rehabilitation centres for affected Kenyans. They could also be used to run sensitization programmes within schools. There are many areas where these funds could be directed to. It is, therefore, unfortunate that we are seeing underutilization and under reporting of these funds.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I could also speak to the failure to establish Internal Audit Committees, in line with the PFMA Regulation No.167. This is obviously clear negligence on the county officers who are mandated to put this into operation. They should be charged for it, because we can see why they are not getting it done. This is where funds get stolen; where loopholes then come in and we can see how our monies get lost. This failure is deliberate and it must be dealt with the full force of the law. We need all our monies properly accounted for.

Madam Temporary Speaker, Internal Audit Committees are necessary. Any successful business we know has to have some internal mechanism of self-auditing. This is to check on financial operations and map out risk areas. Without this, you even wonder then how they are running the operations down at the counties. We should call a few County Executive Committee Members (CECM) here to come and answer, in a court of law or similar avenues, on why they have not operationalised these committees.

Lastly, Madam Temporary Speaker, is on the incomplete and non-utilised projects. We know failure to plan is planning to fail. I have had experience with this in counties, where you find that poor conceptualization of projects as well as poor

implementation of well-intended projects cause a lot of money to be lost. From a construction point of view, the process of conceptualizing and implementing a project is very obvious and clear. There is nothing more to it. However, you will find that many counties do not want to engage in professionalism because they deem professionals to be expensive. I can tell you, without a doubt, that this is not true.

I have had engagements where I tell members in counties that an architect is not expensive. In fact, you stand to lose more when you do not involve one in your planning process. You need these professionals to help you with the planning, budgeting, running and oversight of the projects. You also need them when it comes to certification, checking on variations and all those things. I know many counties are having a challenge having these professionals in place. We have to find way of encouraging them to invest in professionalism.

Madam Temporary Speaker, this House once passed a Motion that the National Construction Authority (NCA) needed to weed out many of the rogue or blacklisted contractors. We know that this is a problem in the counties, where contractors who have not even finished their projects are still awarded more projects though cronyism, or whatever else you can call it. We all know it is wrong that somebody be given a new project when he has not finished a previous one. To this day, that Motion has never been responded to, which is very unfortunate. We should have a full re-registration of contractors so that we can weed out anybody who has not performed their duty.

It is not difficult to do analyses and audits on projects. It is easy to go to a project and find out why it is not complete; why the certificate was not raised, or why it was raised with so many variations. Those are easy things to do. I would, therefore, call for a relook at how the registration of contractors is being done. We know very well that in this country, anybody can become a contractor, and therein lies the problem. You just go and get a fellow contractor or somebody, register a company quickly, then run and get a tender. These are the practices that need to stop. This is happening so much in the counties, leading to incomplete and un-utilised projects. These risks need to be mitigated at a very early on stage.

I congratulate the Committee. Madam Temporary Speaker, I beg to support.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I rise to support the Fiduciary Risk Report. I commend the Committee for coming up with this Report, and generally for the hard work being done by them. In terms of performance, no one can doubt the good work that this Committee is doing constantly. It is the Committee that has the most regular meetings.

On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker.

On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I do not mean to interrupt my leader. However, I just wanted to draw your attention to the fact that there were loud consultations next to me, and I was missing on the invaluable input from my leader. Could you save us from the loud consultations?

report of the Auditor-General in doing oversight work, particularly in considering reports

Order, Members! That is noted. The Senate Minority Leader (

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker and Sen. Ochillo-Ayacko for protecting me. Madam Temporary Speaker, I was commending this Committee for the work it is doing. In the history of the Senate, this is one of the best Committees we have had over time. I hope they will continue to render this kind of work to the Senate. Secondly, before I comment on the Report, I also thank the Auditor-General for the work that he has done over the years. As the Senate or Parliament, we depend on the

report of the Auditor-General in doing oversight work, particularly in considering reports

regulations. The kind of loss and embezzlement that is going on now was never there, and the proportions were not as alarming as they are today. I hope that this Report will be discussed with the CoGs to see where they can pull up their socks to make their work more effective and accountable to the people of this country.

Madam Temporary Speaker, we can talk about liabilities, but we will know about it because creditors will not allow counties to be in peace. On the question of assets, the component of assets is found in a lot of counties. It is true, as this report bears out, that there is no asset register. It is not known what belongs to the county beginning from the basics, for example, land. The Constitution has categorized public land in two basic categories. There is public land, which belongs to the national Government and to the county governments; or is managed on behalf of the people by the National Land Commission (NLC), but held in trust by the counties. You will find that most counties do not have a register of the pieces of land that belong to them. That is, therefore, an important question for consideration.

There other things which are important in the regulation and which the Committee has talked about, is the fact that there are no audit committees. The regulations requires that we should have audit committees, which are important. The manner in which they are constituted is as set out in the regulations made under the Public Finance Management Act. The audit committee is important and has a powerful role to play in determining the use of expenditure in the hands of counties. However, these are not in place in most of the counties.

I came across this when I was looking at the regulations some time ago. I asked myself the question whether these audit committees exist. It is in this Report that these audit committees have not been established by most counties. They are supposed to be independent committees which should be presided over by men and women who would know what they are doing. In fact, when there is trouble, we will notice them in advance before the Auditor-General is seized of it.

Madam Temporary Speaker, the adverse opinion that counties have been getting from the Auditor-General is noted in the Financial Years2014/2015 and 2015/2016. If what is contained in this report is anything to go by, instead of those adverse opinions or reports coming from the Auditor-General going down, it looks like they will increase year by year. This is a confirmation that we are not doing things the right way.

I conclude by saying that unless counties wake up and do their work, fighting for more resources for counties will be difficult. We were seated out there with Sen. Olekina and yourself, when one of the prominent Members of the National Assembly was passing. He reminded us that we should care more about the money that counties have been given and which they have not received instead of talking about increasing revenue allocation to them as a share of revenue raised nationally. He was making a point, but the fundamental point for us is to take more resources to the counties.

That is not going to happen if the counties do not perform in a manner that will not embarrass the county governments and their people. It is the Senate which is fighting for counties day and night that will be embarrassed.

Madam Temporary Speaker, the whole thing is about the issue of leadership. The way counties are run and how governors behave is like they want to be monarchical

institutions. Sometimes when you go to a public meeting, there is a public address system. However, when the governor comes, he has got his own public address system and a podium. This is backwardness and foolishness.

If you share a platform with the President of United States of America (USA), you use the platform that is available. If President Trump meets ordinary people, he does not sit in a seat like a throne. They even share the seats in the room. However, it is as if we are building images of governors and presidents like those of monarchs. They are not governments of the people, for the people and by the people. That habit must change.

One of the most wonderful things I have seen in my life is that one day, when I was a young man, I was travelling from Arusha to Nairobi. I boarded a plane that had no first or business class at the time. I think there has not been a known Prime Minister of Sweden who is responsible for what Sweden is known for, other than Olof Palme. When we sat in that plane, the former Prime Minister of Sweden sat on the front seat with four people. He was escorted to the plane by another simple man, called Julius Nyerere, and I could not believe it. There are things that we do which are an exhibition of the kind of leadership we have, whether it is monarchical or a democratically elected government of the people, for the people and by the people.

Therefore, Madam Temporary Speaker, the way county governments carry themselves willy-nilly pushes them to profligacy, where people do things in a big way. That is why they have to eat into public funds in order to build earthly empires. This kind of behavior is both at the county and national level. It is my hope that one day, Kenya will believe in servant leadership, where leaders are simple men and women who are accessible to the people. That is what President Abraham Lincoln talked about; a government of the people, by the people and for the people, and it should be a reality.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. Once again, I thank the Committee for the work well done.

regulations. The kind of loss and embezzlement that is going on now was never there, and the proportions were not as alarming as they are today. I hope that this Report will be discussed with the CoGs to see where they can pull up their socks to make their work more effective and accountable to the people of this country.

Madam Temporary Speaker, we can talk about liabilities, but we will know about it because creditors will not allow counties to be in peace. On the question of assets, the component of assets is found in a lot of counties. It is true, as this report bears out, that there is no asset register. It is not known what belongs to the county beginning from the basics, for example, land. The Constitution has categorized public land in two basic categories. There is public land, which belongs to the national Government and to the county governments; or is managed on behalf of the people by the National Land Commission (NLC), but held in trust by the counties. You will find that most counties do not have a register of the pieces of land that belong to them. That is, therefore, an important question for consideration.

There other things which are important in the regulation and which the Committee has talked about, is the fact that there are no audit committees. The regulations requires that we should have audit committees, which are important. The manner in which they are constituted is as set out in the regulations made under the Public Finance Management Act. The audit committee is important and has a powerful role to play in determining the use of expenditure in the hands of counties. However, these are not in place in most of the counties.

I came across this when I was looking at the regulations some time ago. I asked myself the question whether these audit committees exist. It is in this Report that these audit committees have not been established by most counties. They are supposed to be independent committees which should be presided over by men and women who would know what they are doing. In fact, when there is trouble, we will notice them in advance before the Auditor-General is seized of it.

Madam Temporary Speaker, the adverse opinion that counties have been getting from the Auditor-General is noted in the Financial Years2014/2015 and 2015/2016. If what is contained in this report is anything to go by, instead of those adverse opinions or reports coming from the Auditor-General going down, it looks like they will increase year by year. This is a confirmation that we are not doing things the right way.

I conclude by saying that unless counties wake up and do their work, fighting for more resources for counties will be difficult. We were seated out there with Sen. Olekina and yourself, when one of the prominent Members of the National Assembly was passing. He reminded us that we should care more about the money that counties have been given and which they have not received instead of talking about increasing revenue allocation to them as a share of revenue raised nationally. He was making a point, but the fundamental point for us is to take more resources to the counties.

That is not going to happen if the counties do not perform in a manner that will not embarrass the county governments and their people. It is the Senate which is fighting for counties day and night that will be embarrassed.

Madam Temporary Speaker, the whole thing is about the issue of leadership. The way counties are run and how governors behave is like they want to be monarchical

institutions. Sometimes when you go to a public meeting, there is a public address system. However, when the governor comes, he has got his own public address system and a podium. This is backwardness and foolishness.

If you share a platform with the President of United States of America (USA), you use the platform that is available. If President Trump meets ordinary people, he does not sit in a seat like a throne. They even share the seats in the room. However, it is as if we are building images of governors and presidents like those of monarchs. They are not governments of the people, for the people and by the people. That habit must change.

One of the most wonderful things I have seen in my life is that one day, when I was a young man, I was travelling from Arusha to Nairobi. I boarded a plane that had no first or business class at the time. I think there has not been a known Prime Minister of Sweden who is responsible for what Sweden is known for, other than Olof Palme. When we sat in that plane, the former Prime Minister of Sweden sat on the front seat with four people. He was escorted to the plane by another simple man, called Julius Nyerere, and I could not believe it. There are things that we do which are an exhibition of the kind of leadership we have, whether it is monarchical or a democratically elected government of the people, for the people and by the people.

Therefore, Madam Temporary Speaker, the way county governments carry themselves willy-nilly pushes them to profligacy, where people do things in a big way. That is why they have to eat into public funds in order to build earthly empires. This kind of behavior is both at the county and national level. It is my hope that one day, Kenya will believe in servant leadership, where leaders are simple men and women who are accessible to the people. That is what President Abraham Lincoln talked about; a government of the people, by the people and for the people, and it should be a reality.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. Once again, I thank the Committee for the work well done.

I note that there is so much interest. This is an important matter, but I will reduce the time to 10 minutes for the debate, considering the time that we have.

Sen. Faki, you have the Floor.

Asante, Bi. Spika wa Muda, kwa kunipa fursa hii kuchangia Hoja hii ya kupitiswa kwa Ripoti kuhusu FYs 2013/2014, 2014/2015 na 2015/2016. Ripoti hii imekuja wakati ambapo kuna mvutano baina ya Bunge la Seneti na Bunge la Kitaifa kuhusu pesa ngapi zinafaa kupelekwa katika serikali za kaunti. Kwa hivyo, hii ni fursa nzuri kwa Seneti kuangazia hatari za kimaadili katika kaunti zetu, ili kupendekeza njia tutakayotumia ili kuboresha utendakazi wa kaunti, na kuhakikisha kwamba wananchi wanapata faida.

Bi. Spika wa Muda, Kamati ya Seneti kuhusu Uhasibu na Uwekezaji iliangalia ripoti 235 za serikali za kaunti.

Bi. Spika wa Muda, natoa hoja zangu, lakini Mwenyekiti wa Kamati hasikii kile ninachosema.

Sorry, I did not hear that. Sen. Faki, kindly proceed.

Bi. Spika wa Muda, nilisema Mhe. Spika. Sikusema Bw. Spika wala Mr. Speaker. Samahani Sen. Madzayo.

Kama Kamati ya Uhasibu na Uwekezaji, tumeweza kuchunguza ripoti 235 za serikali za kaunti, ripoti 141 za mabunge ya kaunti, na zaidi ya ripoti 1,000 za hazina tofauti tofauti za serikali za kaunti, pamoja na mashirika ya kaunti kama vile mashirika ya maji. Kamati yetu pia ilichunguza hatari zote za kimaadili ambazo zinazikumba kaunti zetu ili kuangalia njia ya kuboresha utendakazi wa serikali za kaunti na mabunge yake.

Hatari hizi zinaathiri pakubwa serikali za kaunti pamoja na mashirika ambayo yako chini ya kaunti hizo. Kuna hatari za kimaadili zinazohatarisha huduma katika kaunti zetu. Iwapo hazitachunguzwa na kutatuliwa, basi Seneti itapata shida kubwa. Shida hii itakuwa katika kuangalia ripoti za ukaguzi na hesabu za serikali za kaunti ili kuhakikisha kwamba usimamizi wa fedha unazingatia sheria na mwongozo ambao umewekwa.

Bi. Spika wa Muda, Baadhi ya hatari mbali mbali ambazo zilijitokeza, mbali na zile ambazo Mwenyekiti wangu amezungumzia, ni kwamba kuna utaoaji wa zabuni ambao haufuati sheria. Zabuni nyingi zinatolewa kwa marafiki wa magavana, na viongozi wengine wa kaunti. Hiyo imaanisha kwamba kazi haitendwi vile inavyotakikana. Wakati zabuni zinatolewa kinyume na sheria, kuna miradi ghushi ambayo hutengewa pesa bila ya kutekelezwa na wanakandarasi.

Vile vile, Bi. Spika wa Muda, kuna miradi ambayo huchukua miaka na mikaka kumalizwa. Hiyo inamaanisha kwamba wananchi hawapati matunda kutokana na rasilmali zinazotumika. Kwa mfano, katika Kaunti ya Kwale, kuna uwanja wa michezo ambao umekuwa ukijengwa kwa miaka sita sasa, na bado haujamalizika. Hiyo inamaanisha kwamba michezo ya kimataifa haiwezi kufanywa katika kaunti hiyo kwa sababu hakuna uwanja wa michezo hiyo kufanyika.

Jambo linguine, Bi. Spika wa Muda, ni kuwa public participation pia imekuwa kizungumkuti katika kaunti hizi. Utapata kwamba marafiki na wapambe wa magavana, wabunge wa kaunti ama mawaziri katika serikali za kaunti ndio wanaitwa katika mikutano ya ushirikishi wa wananchi. Hiyo inamaanisha kwamba wananchi hawawezi kujua miradi ambayo inakusudiwa kufanywa katika maeneo yao. Vile vile hawawezi kukosoa makosa yanayotokea katika mikutano ama miradi ambayo inafanywa na kaunti zile.

Bi. Spika wa Muda, pia kuna upungufu katika udhibiti wa ndani, yaani internal controls kwa lugha ya Kiingereza. Tumeelezwa kwamba kaunti nyingi hazina kamati za ukaguzi au uhasibu. Tunaambiwa kuwa kaunti nyingi hazina vidhibiti ambavyo vinaweza

On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker. I do not know whether you have heard what our colleague, Sen. Faki, has said. He referred to you as “Mr. Speaker” ilhali wewe ni Bi. Spika wa Muda.

Sorry, I did not hear that. Sen. Faki, kindly proceed.

Bi. Spika wa Muda, nilisema Mhe. Spika. Sikusema Bw. Spika wala Mr. Speaker. Samahani Sen. Madzayo.

Kama Kamati ya Uhasibu na Uwekezaji, tumeweza kuchunguza ripoti 235 za serikali za kaunti, ripoti 141 za mabunge ya kaunti, na zaidi ya ripoti 1,000 za hazina tofauti tofauti za serikali za kaunti, pamoja na mashirika ya kaunti kama vile mashirika ya maji. Kamati yetu pia ilichunguza hatari zote za kimaadili ambazo zinazikumba kaunti zetu ili kuangalia njia ya kuboresha utendakazi wa serikali za kaunti na mabunge yake.

Hatari hizi zinaathiri pakubwa serikali za kaunti pamoja na mashirika ambayo yako chini ya kaunti hizo. Kuna hatari za kimaadili zinazohatarisha huduma katika kaunti zetu. Iwapo hazitachunguzwa na kutatuliwa, basi Seneti itapata shida kubwa. Shida hii itakuwa katika kuangalia ripoti za ukaguzi na hesabu za serikali za kaunti ili kuhakikisha kwamba usimamizi wa fedha unazingatia sheria na mwongozo ambao umewekwa.

Bi. Spika wa Muda, Baadhi ya hatari mbali mbali ambazo zilijitokeza, mbali na zile ambazo Mwenyekiti wangu amezungumzia, ni kwamba kuna utaoaji wa zabuni ambao haufuati sheria. Zabuni nyingi zinatolewa kwa marafiki wa magavana, na viongozi wengine wa kaunti. Hiyo imaanisha kwamba kazi haitendwi vile inavyotakikana. Wakati zabuni zinatolewa kinyume na sheria, kuna miradi ghushi ambayo hutengewa pesa bila ya kutekelezwa na wanakandarasi.

Vile vile, Bi. Spika wa Muda, kuna miradi ambayo huchukua miaka na mikaka kumalizwa. Hiyo inamaanisha kwamba wananchi hawapati matunda kutokana na rasilmali zinazotumika. Kwa mfano, katika Kaunti ya Kwale, kuna uwanja wa michezo ambao umekuwa ukijengwa kwa miaka sita sasa, na bado haujamalizika. Hiyo inamaanisha kwamba michezo ya kimataifa haiwezi kufanywa katika kaunti hiyo kwa sababu hakuna uwanja wa michezo hiyo kufanyika.

Jambo linguine, Bi. Spika wa Muda, ni kuwa public participation pia imekuwa kizungumkuti katika kaunti hizi. Utapata kwamba marafiki na wapambe wa magavana, wabunge wa kaunti ama mawaziri katika serikali za kaunti ndio wanaitwa katika mikutano ya ushirikishi wa wananchi. Hiyo inamaanisha kwamba wananchi hawawezi kujua miradi ambayo inakusudiwa kufanywa katika maeneo yao. Vile vile hawawezi kukosoa makosa yanayotokea katika mikutano ama miradi ambayo inafanywa na kaunti zile.

Bi. Spika wa Muda, pia kuna upungufu katika udhibiti wa ndani, yaani internal controls kwa lugha ya Kiingereza. Tumeelezwa kwamba kaunti nyingi hazina kamati za ukaguzi au uhasibu. Tunaambiwa kuwa kaunti nyingi hazina vidhibiti ambavyo vinaweza

kufuatiliwa kulingana na sharia ili kuhakikisha kwamba fedha za umma hazifujwi ovyo ovyo.

Jambo linguine ni kuwa kuna udhaifu katika rasilimali ya binadamu, yaani human resources kwa Kiingereza. Kwanza, utapata kwamba katika kaunti nyingi, uajiri wa wafanyikazi unafanywa kwa kikabila. Utapata kwamba asilimia zaidi ya 70 ni wa kutoka kabila moja, na hii inavunja sharia. Inamaanisha kwamba wafanyikazi hawawezi kuajiriwa kulingana na uwezo wa kufanya ile kazi.

Vile vile, kaunti nyingi zina jopo la wafanyikazi lililo vimba, yaani a bloated workforce kwa Kingereza. Utapata kwamba wafanyikazi wengi wamekaa maofisini na hawafanyi kazi yoyote. Jana tulikuwa na Gavana wa Garissa, aliyesema kwamba yuko tayari kuchukua makarani waliokuwa wengi katika kaunti ile, ili waende wakafanye kazi kama waalimu wa shule za chekechea. Hicho ni kioja, kwa sababu karani ambaye amekaa ofisini hajui ni mambo gani yanayotakikana kufundishwa katika shule za chekechea. Pale ndipo panatikana msingi wa wanafunzi kufuata masomo kulingana na vile ambavyo anaweza kuelewa.

Bi. Spika wa Muda, tatizo la uvimbe wa jopo la wafanyikazi linaathiri karibu kaunti zote. Vile vile, katika hao wafanyikazi, kuna ukosefu wa usalama wa kazi. Utapata kuwa gavana mpya akiingia ofisini, anataka kuja na wafanyakazi wake wote wapya. Hilo linamaanisha kwamba wale ambao walikuwa wameajiriwa mbeleni watapoteza kazi zao bila ya kuzingatia sheria. Kuwalipa itakuwa gharama kubwa, ambayo mara nyingi hupitishwa katika zile fedha ambazo zinatakikana kwenda katika miradi ya kusaidia kujenga kaunti zile.

Bi. Spika wa Muda, kuna udhaifu katika usimamizi. Kamati za uhasibu zilizoanzishwa katika kaunti nyingi zimewekwa watu ambao hawawezi kuuliza maswali ambayo yanatakikana ili kuhakikisha kwamba kuna usawa na haki katika utendakazi wa kaunti hizi. Ina maana kwamba kamati za uhasibu katika kaunti nyingi zimeundwa kwa minajili tu ya kuonekana kwamba kuna kamati, lakini utendakazi wa kamati hizo haufai kuzungumziwa.

Ripoti ambayo imeletwa katika Seneti hii ni muhimu sana katika kuhakikisa kwamba kaunti zetu zinaendesha kazi zake kulingana na sheria. Itahakikisha pia kuwa wananchi wanapata Huduma, kama ilivokusudiwa wakati ugatuzi ulipoanzishwa katika nchi yetu. Bila ya kuzingatia Ripoti hii, ina maana kwamba yale mambo yaliyofanyika katika miaka sita ya ugatuzi iliyopita yataendelea kufanyika. Hivyo basi, wananchi hawataweza kupata huduma kulingana na vile ilivyokusudiwa katika Katiba yetu.

Bi. Spika wa Muda, matatizo haya yaliyoko katika kaunti hizi pia yako katika Serikali Kuu. Lakini kwa vile Ripoti inazungumzia serikali za kaunti tu, inamaanisha kwamba hatutapata fursa ya kuyaangazia yale maovu ambayo yako katika Serikali Kuu.

Mwisho, Bi. Spika wa Muda, ni kwamba ofisi ya Mkaguzi Mkuu imeweza kufanya kazi nzuri sana, ijapokuwa kuna upungufu hapa na pale---

Order, Senator. Your ten minutes are over. Kindly conclude so that we can allow one more person to contribute.

Asante, Bi. Spika wa Muda. Mkaguzi Mkuu amefanya kazi kubwa kuhakikisha kwamba anaangazia yale madhambi ambayo yanatendeka katika kaunti hizi.

Order, Sen. (Dr.) Langat.

What is your point of order, Sen. Omanga?

Thank you Madam Temporary Speaker, for allowing me to make comments on this very important Report. It is very important because the work of this Senate is to provide effective oversight. We can do that very well by regular examination of reports by the Auditor-General.

Madam Temporary Speaker, our counties have got a lot of issues that need to be addressed, as they have been highlighted here very effectively. One of the issues is under- expenditure or low utilization of funds allocated for specific purposes. I have discovered that most of the counties do not adhere very correlatively to what is always passed by the county assemblies. You will find the governors doing their own work. Very interestingly in some counties, the Members of the County Assembly (MCAs) have become so much compromised that they cannot do oversight.

The other issue that has been highlighted and which we have witnessed wherever we get out to our counties has to do with the outstanding bills. I have discovered that whenever we go around, some people complain based on the fact that immediately the new governors took over, they started heavily suspecting that some of the pending bills in various counties were not genuine. Consequently, they have subjected them to scrutiny on some issues that are not fair. For example, some of them have reassessed the roads they did two or three years ago. Those roads have become eroded again, such that as of now, they require further repair. Some of these contractors have been subjected to too much scrutiny, and most of them have become suspect and not been paid.

Madam Temporary Speaker, it is high time we get proper legal frameworks from the Senate that will guide counties when addressing such issues. These contractors promote economic growth in our counties. Most of them took loans from banks to purchase equipment and machinery, which have since been seized by the banks. We must do something and take this Report seriously.

Today, a Member of the National Assembly told me that we have failed to hold governors to account properly on what they collect from their counties. In the same Report, most of the governors have been questioned on why they are not remitting revenues to the various accounts. Most of them are spending the money on the spot, which has opened ways for corruption, Madam Governor. You can get some people even duplicating receipts.

On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker.

Order, Sen. (Dr.) Langat.

What is your point of order, Sen. Omanga?

Madam Temporary, Speaker, is it in order for the Senator for Bomet to address his governor in this House?

Did you say that he is addressing her governor?

Sen. (Dr.) Langat, could you let us know whether you are addressing the Speaker or Madam Governor?

Yes, Madam Temporary Speaker. I am referring to the Party Leader of the Forum for the Restoration of Democracy–Kenya (FORD-Kenya) and our former Senate Minority Leader in the Senate, who is a very senior citizen. He is also one of the most distinguished and celebrated lawyers in this country; Sen. Wetangula, the Senator for Bungoma County.

Sen. Madzayo, your concern is genuine. However, Sen. Wetangula was on the top of the list and then he walked away. By the time he came back, I had already given the chance to another Member. At the time he walked out, I had informed him that he was next, because he was on top of the list. Even though he is still senior, he had pressed the button earlier and was on top of the list. He, therefore, lost his chance when he walked out and came in when Sen. (Dr.) Langat had already been asked to speak. Had he waited, he would have been next to speak. I do not understand what the complaint is all about. At the time the chance came, he had walked out of the Chamber.

I am obliged, Madam Temporary Speaker.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I also want to say that new Senators, who are not very well experienced, should be given a chance to grow and get experience. I wish that the old ones could also give us a chance to do the same. Thank you, for allowing me to continue.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I am also surprised that in the same audit report, most counties have been spending so much money in public participation, which is even more than the money intended for a particular project. It raises many questions when we see such reports from the Auditor-General. My greatest interest is what we are supposed to do. We have seen a trend where whenever governors come before CPAIC, and they turn the session for interrogating them into a battle between them and the Senators.

Order, Sen. (Dr.) Langat. You will have a balance of seven minutes when we resume.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I also want to say that new Senators, who are not very well experienced, should be given a chance to grow and get experience. I wish that the old ones could also give us a chance to do the same. Thank you, for allowing me to continue.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I am also surprised that in the same audit report, most counties have been spending so much money in public participation, which is even more than the money intended for a particular project. It raises many questions when we see such reports from the Auditor-General. My greatest interest is what we are supposed to do. We have seen a trend where whenever governors come before CPAIC, and they turn the session for interrogating them into a battle between them and the Senators.

Hon. Senators, it is now 6.30 p.m., time to adjourn the House. The Senate, therefore, stands adjourned until tomorrow, Thursday 25th July, 2019, at 2.30 p.m.

The Senate rose at 6.30 p.m.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker.

Hon. Senators, it is now 6.30 p.m., time to adjourn the House. The Senate, therefore, stands adjourned until tomorrow, Thursday 25th July, 2019, at 2.30 p.m.

The Senate rose at 6.30 p.m.