Wednesday, 22nd May, 2024 Morning Sitting

Clerk, do we have quorum? Serjeant-at-Arms, kindly ring the Quorum Bell for 10 minutes.

Hon. Senators, I confirm that we now have quorum. Let us transact some business.

Dismantle that kamukunji with immediate effect. Clerk, call out the first Order.

Hon. Senators, today, Wednesday morning, we were expecting three Cabinet Secretaries to appear in the Senate. We have since received communication from the Cabinet Secretaries for Environment, Climate Change and Forestry and National Treasury and Economic Planning that they are out of the country. The Senate Business Committee (SBC) , in its consideration, accepted those two apologies.

So, this morning, we are again expecting the Cabinet Secretary for Agriculture and Livestock Development. I am told he is around. He can be ushered in for his Questions.

(The Cabinet Secretary for Agriculture and Livestock Development

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. We hear your communication about the absence of the Cabinet Secretaries. I am especially interested in the Cabinet Secretary for National Treasury and Economic Planning.

I had been asked by Sen. Mumma to stand in for her, but I hear that the SBC has okayed the absence of the Cabinet Secretary. That means the absence was communicated yesterday when the SBC was sitting.

So that I also dispense my duty, being a delegate for Sen. Mumma, so that she does not think that I abandoned her; is the SBC satisfied that there are enough grounds for the Cabinet Secretary not to appear? Just that clarification.

Yes. The two Cabinet Secretaries for Environment Climate Change and Forestry; National Treasury and Economic Planning and another one have been earmarked to appear again next week on Wednesday. The SBC felt that the reasons were genuine enough.

Is the Cabinet Secretary Agriculture and Livestock Development around? Hon. Senators, the Cabinet Secretary for Agriculture and Livestock Development, Hon. Mithika Linturi is here with us.

Once again, welcome to the Senate, you were here last month. You are here to answer to three Questions. We start with the one from the Senator for Kirinyaga County.

Sen. (Dr.) Murango, ask your Question No.047. Question No. 047

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity. I beg to ask the Cabinet Secretary for Agriculture and Livestock Development Question No.047.

accessible database of the geolocation data for land under coffee plantations?

Thank you.

Hon. Cabinet Secretary, you can respond to the four-part Question.

The Cabinet Secretary for Agriculture and Livestock Development

: Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I once again thank the Senate for the good work they are doing for this country. I am happy to be here this morning.

I had asked to be excused today because I had issues at hand. However, because of my appreciation and respect for the House of Parliament, we had to stop all the issues that we are running out of Nairobi yesterday evening and today, for me to appear this morning.

I am ready to answer the four Questions, so that if I have a bit of time remaining, I can catch up with my programme in Kericho later in the day.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, this is my reply to Question No. 047 by the distinguished Senator of Kirinyaga County.

Part (c) is on which Government institution is responsible for managing the geolocation information.

The geospatial data on coffee shall be hosted at the AFA Coffee Directorate for ease of data management, storage, retrieval and dissemination. There shall be continuous update of the database through periodic ground truthing. Where need be, the geodata collected will be assessed by the authorized parties to inform generations of due diligence statements for coffee exports to the EU market.

Part (d) is on whether there is any budgetary allocation for maintaining a comprehensive and accessible database for geolocation data.

Currently, there is no budget allocation for maintenance of a comprehensive and accessible database for geological data on land under coffee production. However, the office of the Cabinet Secretary National Treasury and Economic Planning and the Cabinet Secretary Co-operatives and Micro, Small and Medium Enterprises (MSMEs) Development, the Ministry of Foreign and Diaspora Affairs and the Attorney General have developed a Cabinet Memo to be presented to the next Cabinet on the EU regulation requirement.

This memo is projected to appraise the Cabinet on the compliance requirements of the EU regulation on deforestation and forest degradation on Kenyan coffee access to the EU market.

This memo seeks Cabinet approval for budgetary allocation towards the collection of geodatabases for all coffee growers, coffee farm cooperatives and estate processing factories in Kenya, to facilitate preparation of due diligence statements.

I have already signed this memo out and is now in circulation. As we sit here, it is at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Diaspora Affairs for signing before submission to the Cabinet for approval.

Thank you, Waziri. Sen. (Dr.) Murango, you have an opportunity to ask two supplementary questions if you have them. If none, no problem.

Take your seat, Waziri.

Naibu wa Spika, swali ningependa kumuuliza Waziri ni ikiwa anayo uhakika kwamba ifikapo mwisho wa mwezi ujao, tutakuwa tunauza kahawa katika nchi ya Uingereza kwa sababu ndiyo inanunua kahawa nyingi sana kutoka Kenya.

Haya ni ili tuwe na utulivu tukijua kwamba mambo yako sawa. Tusijipate pahali pembamba itakapofika Juni kisha tuambiwe hakuna soko. Atupe uhakika kwamba ifikapo Juni tutauza kahawa bila matatizo yoyote kuhusu sheria mpya za Muungano wa Nchi za Ulaya.

Uhakiki ni uhakika au kitu kingine tofauti?

Aweze kuhakiki.

Samahani. Sen. Faki?

Nataka kumsaidia Sen. (Dr.) Murango kwamba uhakiki inatokana na neno hakika. Kuhakiki na uhakika ni jambo moja.

Hakiki na hakika ndio iliyonichanganya. Endelea Waziri. The Cabinet Secretary for Agriculture and Livestock Development

: Bw. Naibu wa Spika, sijui ikiwa sheria na desturi za Bunge zilibadilika. Ninavyokumbuka ni kwamba lugha inayotumika ndio unayotumia kujibu.

Sen. (Dr.) Murango amenitia katika kona ambayo nawezashindwa kujieleza vizuri. Naomba niweze kujaribu kumjibu.

Ningependa kusema na ieleweke vyema kwamba kazi tunayofanya, hasa tunafuata ajenda ya Bottom-Up Economic Transformation Agenda (BETA). Tunataka kuongeza mauzo ya nje ya nchi kwa majani chai, kahawa, maziwa na kadhalika.

Nahakikishia Seneti hii kwamba tuko na nia ya kuhakikisha kahawa inayotoka katika nchi yetu inaendelea kuongezeka kila wakati. Tutaendelea kuuza kahawa kwa kuwa tunauza hata sasa. Compliance na regulations ni kuhakikisha hatukosi soko. Ndio sababu tunajitahidi kufuatilia sheria hizi ili kuhakikisha soko yetu au kahawa tunayopeleka kule haina tatizo lolote.

Nilikuja Jumatatu asubuhi kutoka nje ya nchi nilipokuwa pia natafuta soko ya bidhaa za Kenya.

Nataka kuwahakikishia ya kwamba siyo tu kule EU peke yake, tayari tumepata njia ya kupeleka majani chai na kahawa kule Uchina.

Wakati nilipokuwa huko tarehe 15, nilifungua Trade Centre ya bidhaa ya Kenya na wale wakulima tuliokuwa nao. Tumeweka hata sahihi na mikakati ya kuhakikisha ya kwamba kahawa na chai yetu inaweza kufika kwa soko zile zingine.

Kile ningetaka kusema ni kuwa Serikali imeweka mikakati ya kuhakikisha ya kwamba, tunaweza kusukuma soko ya bidhaa zetu tunayokuza hapa ili zifike kule nje.

Tunasema lazima tuangalie vile tutaweza kuwa na brand ya kahawa yetu na majani chai iliyo na uhalisi. Kwa sababu ya ubora, kahawa na majani chai isiweze kupotea ili tuwe na brand ambayo inajulikana. Ukienda kule nje, unajua ile kahawa unakunywa inatoka Kenya. Hivyo basi, tutaweza kuhakisha ile kahawa ambayo iko na thamana zaidi kutoka nchi yetu, itaweza kueleweka na kujulikana, ili kuhakikisha tumehifadhi soko yetu.

Asante, Bw. Naibu Spika.

Una swali la pili?

Ndiyo The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) : Uliza. `Sen. (Dr) Murango: Swali la mwisho, Bw. Waziri. Tunajua kwamba katika soko ya kahawa katika mnada wa kahawa Narobi National Coffee Board (NCB) umekuwa ukiendelea kwa muda.

Kulingana na stakabadhi na nakala ambazo tumepata, bidhaa hii imekuwa ikiuzwa kwa bei nzuri sana. Ningependa kukuuliza kama unajua ya kwamba wakulima bado hawajaweza kulipwa pesa zao ambazo ni za mazao ya kahawa.Na kutoka jadi, haijawahi kuchelewa ama kufika mwezi wa Mei kama hawajalipwa.

Jana nimekuwa na swali ngumu sana kujibu kwa bishop wangu wa kanisa la Anglikana, ambaye ni mkulima. Hata ikambidi asome katika kitabu kitakatifu cha Biblia kuona kama kazi ya mkulima ni kuteseka bila malipo.

Ningetaka niulize kama kuna kufuatilia kwokwote kunafanyika katika vyama vya ushirika, kuhakisha ya kwamba wakulima wamelipwa kabla mwezi huu kuisha, kwa sababu ukweli ni kwamba kahawa imeuzwa na pesa zipo.

Ni vizuri walipwe ili waweze kunufaika na dola kwa sababu waliuza dola ikiwa juu. Na vile inaendelea mambo huenda yakaharibika zaidi. Kwa hivyo, swali langu ni hilo. Je, unajua ya kwamba wakulima wa kahawa hawajalipwa na kahawa imeuzwa? Je, wataweza kulipwa kabla mwezi huu haujaisha?

Asante sana, Bw. Naibu Spika.

Waziri? The Cabinet Secretary for Agriculture and Livestock Development

: Bw. Naibu Spika, wacha niseme hivi kwa sasa. Najua, Serikali imeweka juhudi na mikakati kuhakikisha mkulima akishavuna kahawa yake, atapata pesa zake wakati unaofaa.

Nakumbuka vyema Baraza la Mawaziri tulipitisha Coffee Cherry Advance Revolving Fund (CCARF) , ambayo imekuwa ikilipa wakulima. Sababu ya sisi kupitisha CCARF hiyo ilikuwa ili wakulima wetu wasipoteze ama wasitapeliwe na wale brokers na wapate pesa kabla kahawa kuuzwa na waweze kulipwa

Jambo la pili na niliseme kwa mukhtasari kuna mikakati mingine tunayoiweka kuhakikisha wakulima wetu wamewashugulikia. Kama ilivyosema hapo awali Wizara ya Co-operatives and Micro, Small and Medium Enterprises Development, National Treasury and Economic Planning na Wizara yangu tumetengeneza memo ya kuweza kuvutilia mbali madeni yote katika cooperatives na inayodaiwa wakulima wa kahawa. Tumeweka kidole na tutavutilia mbali madeni waliyo nayo ili wakulima wa kahawa waweze kufaidika na waweze kuendelea kukuza kahawa.

Kwa hivyo, Sen. (Dr.) Murango, hayo ndiyo tunayoyafanya. Kujua kama kweli ni pesa ngapi ama wakulima hawajalipwa na kama watalipwa kabla ya mwezi wa tano kumalizika, ningeomba unipee nafasi niwasiliane na ndugu yangu, Chelugui, kwa sababu hiyo ndiyo Wizara yake ya uuzaji wa kahawa na kulipa wakulima.

Kazi yangu ni kuzalisha. Nikimaliza kuzalisha na kupeleka kwa factory na ichukuliwe na cooperatives, kazi yangu huishia hapo. Mambo ya uuzaji na ulipishaji sasa hushughulikiwa na Wizara ya Co-operatives and Micro, Small and Medium Enterprises Development.

Bw. Naibu Spika, yale ninayoeleza ni yale ninayoyajua na tunafanya kazi pamoja. Nitamfikia rafiki na ndugu yangu Waziri ili nijue ni wakati gani watakaolipa na pale juhudi za malipo zimefika. Ikiwezekana, tutakutumia jibu kwako binafsi na pia hapa Bungeni. Nikisema watalipwa kesho ama kesho kutwa na hii ni kazi ya Wizara nyingine, nitakuwa na uhakika. Sitaki kusema mambo nisiyo na uhakika nayo katika Bunge hili.

Swali la mwisho, Bw. Waziri. Tunajua kwamba katika soko ya kahawa katika mnada wa kahawa Narobi National Coffee Board (NCB) umekuwa ukiendelea kwa muda. Kulingana na stakabadhi na nakala ambazo tumepata, bidhaa hii imekuwa ikiuzwa kwa bei nzuri sana. Ningependa kukuuliza kama unajua ya kwamba wakulima bado hawajaweza kulipwa pesa zao ambazo ni za mazao ya kahawa.Na kutoka jadi, haijawahi kuchelewa ama kufika mwezi wa Mei kama hawajalipwa. Jana nimekuwa na swali ngumu sana kujibu kwa bishop wangu wa kanisa la Anglikana, ambaye ni mkulima. Hata ikambidi asome katika kitabu kitakatifu cha Biblia kuona kama kazi ya mkulima ni kuteseka bila malipo. Ningetaka niulize kama kuna kufuatilia kwokwote kunafanyika katika vyama vya ushirika, kuhakisha ya kwamba wakulima wamelipwa kabla mwezi huu kuisha, kwa sababu ukweli ni kwamba kahawa imeuzwa na pesa zipo. Ni vizuri walipwe ili waweze kunufaika na dola kwa sababu waliuza dola ikiwa juu. Na vile inaendelea mambo huenda yakaharibika zaidi. Kwa hivyo, swali langu ni hilo. Je, unajua ya kwamba wakulima wa kahawa hawajalipwa na kahawa imeuzwa? Je, wataweza kulipwa kabla mwezi huu haujaisha?

Sen. Maanzo?

Niko na swali, Bw. Naibu Spika. Jambo kubwa sana ambalo lilikuwa limeleta shida ni magonjwa ya Kahawa, hasa kule Makueni sehemu za Mbitini, Mbooni, Kilungu na Machakos upande wa Kangundo ambako kahawa hukuzwa.

Ni jambo gani utafanya uhakikishe ya kwamba yale magonjwa hayatarudi tena? Siku hizi kahawa ya Makueni haizai sana kwa sababu ya ile mbolea ambayo huwekwa.

Waziri, umesema kuwa utaongea na Waziri mwezako. Je, huyu Seneta wa Kirinyaga angoje siku ngapi ili ajue? Tuko na follow up of any commitment that the Cabinet Secretary is making on this Floor. Tuko na mechanism to make follow-ups.

The Cabinet Secretary for Agriculture and Livestock Development

: Immediately I am out of this Chamber, I will call the Cabinet Secretary to apprise him of the issues that have arisen on the Floor. I am sure because that appears to be quite straightforward on when or whether the money would be paid to the farmers, it is something that should not take more than seven days to get an answer.

Asante.

Sen. Maanzo?

Niko na swali, Bw. Naibu Spika. Jambo kubwa sana ambalo lilikuwa limeleta shida ni magonjwa ya Kahawa, hasa kule Makueni sehemu za Mbitini, Mbooni, Kilungu na Machakos upande wa Kangundo ambako kahawa hukuzwa.

Ni jambo gani utafanya uhakikishe ya kwamba yale magonjwa hayatarudi tena? Siku hizi kahawa ya Makueni haizai sana kwa sababu ya ile mbolea ambayo huwekwa.

Asante, Bw. Naibu Spika kwa nafasi hii. Namkaribisha Waziri wa Kilimo baada ya mchakato mgumu kuhusu pembejeo. Langu ni kuuliza Mhe. Waziri swali moja au mawili.

Eneo la Magharibi, hasa Kaunti ya Bungoma, kuna upanzi wa kahawa. Juzi kumekuwa na madai na ishara kwamba kuna ulanguzi wa kahawa kutoka viwanda vya usagaji kahawa katika Kaunti ya Bungoma kuelekea nchi jirani. Pia, gharama ya ukuzaji wa kahawa katika nchi jirani ya Uganda ni bora zaidi kuliko nchi ya Kenya.

Vile vile, wakulima wanadai kwamba mfumo wa malipo wa fedha za kahawa hauwapi motisha na nishati ya kufanya ukulima. Hivi kwamba, karibu wakulima waanze kukata miti ya kahawa na kujiunga na taasisi ama ukulima mwingine.

Mwisho kabisa ni kwamba, katika upanzi na biashara ya kahawa halmashauri ya viwanda kule Bungoma kuna madai ya ubadhirifu wa fedha za wakulima katika taasisi hizo. Ni mikakati ipi ambayo imewekwa na Serikali na Wizara yako kuhakikisha

Leo nimefurahia kwa sababu mambo ya kahawa ni ya wale wazee wako kijijini. Hiyo lugha tunayotumia imenifurahisha sana kwa sababu tunaongea na wakulima leo tukiwa Seneti. Kwa hivyo, Bw. Waziri, tuendelee vivyo hivyo na hii lugha ya taifa, ili tuwafikie wakulima vizuri.

The Cabinet Secretary for Agriculture and Livestock Development

: Nafurahi Bw. Naibu Spika kusikia kutoka kwa Seneta wa Makueni kuhusu zile juhudi wakulima wa Makueni wameweka ili kutusaidia kuzalisha kahawa.

Tutashirikiana na wao na magavana wa ukambani akiwemo rafiki yangu, Mhe. Mutula Kilonzo, Jnr. Nimetembea huko mara nyingi na Makueni is my second county. Katika mpangilio wa Serikali kwa mambo ya upanzi wa miti, mimi ndio in charge of Makueni County. So, I frequently make visits to Makueni. Let me promise kwa sababu, japo mambo ya crop husbandry ambayo ni function ya county government, nitashirikiana nao.

Tuko na Directorate ya crop proctection katika Wizara yangu inayojaribu kujenga uwezo kwa kaunti zetu na kuwasiliana na idara zile zingine nilizo nazo kwa mambo ya magojwa na utafiti na kujua kama kuna magonjwa fulani, ni dawa gani tunaweza kutumia ili tusaidiane kama kaunti.

Kwa vile hayo mambo mheshimiwa ameyafikisha, kuna kazi kaunti inapaswa kufanya na pia sisi kama Wizara tunapaswa kufanya kazi yetu. Tutashirikiana na gavana wao. Kama kuna jambo wanataka sisi tusaidie na kuhusika pamoja, tuko tayari. Serikali za kaunti na ile ya kitaifa zinahudumia mwananchi mmoja.

It is our business as the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock Development, especially the department of crop protection, kuhakikisha ya kwamba ukuzaji na uzalishaji wa kahawa unafanyika kwa mazingira ambayo hakuna wadudu ambao wataadhiri quality. Ili tuweze ku-secure soko yetu ambayo tuko nayo, kuongezea quality ya kahawa tutakayozalisha nchini. Kahawa ya Kenya ndio bora zaidi dunia kote.

Let me get in touch with the department. Tuelewe kile tunafaa kufanya ili tufanye kazi pamoja na gavana wenu kwani pia yeye ana majukumu ya kikatiba.

Asante. Sen. Wafula, urahisishe Kiswahili. Usizungumze Kiswahili kigumu cha mwalimu wa Kiswahili.

Asante, Bw. Naibu Spika kwa nafasi hii. Namkaribisha Waziri wa Kilimo baada ya mchakato mgumu kuhusu pembejeo. Langu ni kuuliza Mhe. Waziri swali moja au mawili.

Eneo la Magharibi, hasa Kaunti ya Bungoma, kuna upanzi wa kahawa. Juzi kumekuwa na madai na ishara kwamba kuna ulanguzi wa kahawa kutoka viwanda vya usagaji kahawa katika Kaunti ya Bungoma kuelekea nchi jirani. Pia, gharama ya ukuzaji wa kahawa katika nchi jirani ya Uganda ni bora zaidi kuliko nchi ya Kenya.

Vile vile, wakulima wanadai kwamba mfumo wa malipo wa fedha za kahawa hauwapi motisha na nishati ya kufanya ukulima. Hivi kwamba, karibu wakulima waanze kukata miti ya kahawa na kujiunga na taasisi ama ukulima mwingine.

Mwisho kabisa ni kwamba, katika upanzi na biashara ya kahawa halmashauri ya viwanda kule Bungoma kuna madai ya ubadhirifu wa fedha za wakulima katika taasisi hizo. Ni mikakati ipi ambayo imewekwa na Serikali na Wizara yako kuhakikisha

Asante, Bw. Naibu Spika. Nitafanya jinsi umeelekeza ili nipate majibu kamili.

Asante. Sen. Munyi Mundigi, uliza swali moja pekee.

Asante, Bw. Naibu Spika, nilikuwa na maswali mawili, lakini nitauliza moja. Nitafuata maagizo yako.

Ningependa kuuliza Waziri wa Kilimo swali moja kama Naibu Mwenyekiti wa Kamati ya Kilimo, Mifugo na Uvuvi. Mimi hufurahia kwani kilimo kwenye Serikali ya Kenya Kwanza ni pesa mfukoni.

Jana ilikuwa ni maadhimisho ya siku ya majani chai ulimwenguni. Kahawa na majani chai haina tofauti. Wakulima wengi hulima upande moja wa shamba majani chai na upande mwingine kahawa. Pia leo ni siku ya kusherehekea. Kenya ni namba tatu ulimwenguni kwa panzi wa majani chai. Bei ya chai imerudi chini. Bw. Waziri, uwasaidie wakulima wa majani chai ili wapate faida kubwa.

Serikali ya Kenya Kwanza inapendekeza tax irudi chini ndio mkulima asherehekee. Utafanya nini ili dunia nzima ikisherekea, bei ya majani chai iwe inayofaa ili mkulima aweze kulipa karo ya watoto wake shuleni, alipe pesa za hospitali na kusimamia familia yake.

Wakulima wameumia na kulia. Nauliza swali hili kama mkaazi wa Embu. Kaunti ya Embu ni moja ya kaunti ambazo zinalima majani chai. Ukulima huu unafanyika katika eneo la Manyatta Runyenjes. Ukulima wa majani chai unafanyika Kirinyaga, Rift Valley na Kaunti ya Meru.

Asante, Bw. Naibu Spika. Nitafanya jinsi umeelekeza ili nipate majibu kamili.

Asante. Sen. Munyi Mundigi, uliza swali moja pekee.

Asante, Bw. Naibu Spika, nilikuwa na maswali mawili, lakini nitauliza moja. Nitafuata maagizo yako.

Ningependa kuuliza Waziri wa Kilimo swali moja kama Naibu Mwenyekiti wa Kamati ya Kilimo, Mifugo na Uvuvi. Mimi hufurahia kwani kilimo kwenye Serikali ya Kenya Kwanza ni pesa mfukoni.

Jana ilikuwa ni maadhimisho ya siku ya majani chai ulimwenguni. Kahawa na majani chai haina tofauti. Wakulima wengi hulima upande moja wa shamba majani chai na upande mwingine kahawa. Pia leo ni siku ya kusherehekea. Kenya ni namba tatu ulimwenguni kwa panzi wa majani chai. Bei ya chai imerudi chini. Bw. Waziri, uwasaidie wakulima wa majani chai ili wapate faida kubwa.

Serikali ya Kenya Kwanza inapendekeza tax irudi chini ndio mkulima asherehekee. Utafanya nini ili dunia nzima ikisherekea, bei ya majani chai iwe inayofaa ili mkulima aweze kulipa karo ya watoto wake shuleni, alipe pesa za hospitali na kusimamia familia yake.

Wakulima wameumia na kulia. Nauliza swali hili kama mkaazi wa Embu. Kaunti ya Embu ni moja ya kaunti ambazo zinalima majani chai. Ukulima huu unafanyika katika eneo la Manyatta Runyenjes. Ukulima wa majani chai unafanyika Kirinyaga, Rift Valley na Kaunti ya Meru.

Je, Bw. Waziri, utasaidia mkulima wa majani chai vipi? Ama umesaidia wakulima hawa vipi ili kutoka leo awe wakifurahia?

Bw. Waziri, jibu

Proceed, hon. Cabinet Secretary. The Cabinet Secretary for Agriculture and Livestock Development

: Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, thank you for the question coming from the Senator for Kajiado.

Senator, the plant you are referring to as ipomoea is very dangerous. Right now, it has affected around 37 counties in the country. It is a problem that the Cabinet is seized

of. We are trying to see how to deal with the effects of this plant to ensure that we protect our rangelands.

I may not be able to tell you to what extent or measures that we have developed. This matter was brought to the attention of the Cabinet by hon. Soipan Tuya and we have already formed a committee to look into it. On 9th of this month, we picked our technical teams from the Ministries to sit down and look at it in order to brief us on what we need to do.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the issue raised is timely, but it is not possible for me to explain what we have done because there is a team working on all these issues. However, if this was a substantive question directed to me, I would seek information from the Ministry of Environment and Forestry, so as to prepare a more comprehensive answer once consultations and actual facts have been taken into consideration.

I appreciate the question and would like to inform the House that we are seized of the matter and there is a working team dealing with that problem. We seek your indulgence to give me more time to consult with the teams that are working on this in order to give the House a more reasoned answer.

Sen. Seki, you can take that other route so that you get a comprehensive answer that has timelines on what the Government is doing. Even if this matter is in the docket of environment and forestry, it is also good to handle it in range management because it is in agriculture. Sen. Seki, I believe you can ask that question in the proper manner.

As I said, I can see there are Senators who want to ask supplementary questions.

Sen. Tabitha, why are you ‘crying’ of gender in the Senate? That card should be withdrawn completely in the Senate. You are always given equal opportunity with the men. You seem weak today, ‘crying’ about gender and that is not you.

Hon. Senators, we should go to the second Question, but still you can ask any question on agriculture as we move on, so that we do not stick on one question for two hours.

The other Question is from Sen. Mungatana or the person holding brief for Sen. Korir. Considering the gender and youth issue, I will give Sen. Okenyuri the first priority because she is a youth.

Sen. Okenyuri, proceed to ask Question No.042 Question No.042

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I also take this opportunity to thank the Cabinet Secretary for finding time to come to the Senate to answer questions after a long time.

My question is related to issues of tea and coffee. In my county, we have livestock. Kajiado County is a rangeland county. Being a rangeland county, we have grass. As you know, we have a big problem with a plant called ipomoea.

That plant has spread in the entire county and it is bringing a lot of problems to livestock farmers. What are the plans and measures of your Ministry to eradicate the ipomoea plant that has affected many counties? I would like to hear from you because this is a big issue. Even in Marsabit and Isiolo counties, that plant is a big problem to livestock farmers.

As you are aware, without livestock, there is no wildlife. Kajiado County is known for wildlife tourism. That has an effect in many areas. I will be happy to hear the plan that the Ministry has to eradicate the plant called ipomoea.

Proceed, hon. Cabinet Secretary. The Cabinet Secretary for Agriculture and Livestock Development

: Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, thank you for the question coming from the Senator for Kajiado.

Senator, the plant you are referring to as ipomoea is very dangerous. Right now, it has affected around 37 counties in the country. It is a problem that the Cabinet is seized

of. We are trying to see how to deal with the effects of this plant to ensure that we protect our rangelands.

I may not be able to tell you to what extent or measures that we have developed. This matter was brought to the attention of the Cabinet by hon. Soipan Tuya and we have already formed a committee to look into it. On 9th of this month, we picked our technical teams from the Ministries to sit down and look at it in order to brief us on what we need to do.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the issue raised is timely, but it is not possible for me to explain what we have done because there is a team working on all these issues. However, if this was a substantive question directed to me, I would seek information from the Ministry of Environment and Forestry, so as to prepare a more comprehensive answer once consultations and actual facts have been taken into consideration.

I appreciate the question and would like to inform the House that we are seized of the matter and there is a working team dealing with that problem. We seek your indulgence to give me more time to consult with the teams that are working on this in order to give the House a more reasoned answer.

Sen. Seki, you can take that other route so that you get a comprehensive answer that has timelines on what the Government is doing. Even if this matter is in the docket of environment and forestry, it is also good to handle it in range management because it is in agriculture. Sen. Seki, I believe you can ask that question in the proper manner.

As I said, I can see there are Senators who want to ask supplementary questions.

Sen. Tabitha, why are you ‘crying’ of gender in the Senate? That card should be withdrawn completely in the Senate. You are always given equal opportunity with the men. You seem weak today, ‘crying’ about gender and that is not you.

Hon. Senators, we should go to the second Question, but still you can ask any question on agriculture as we move on, so that we do not stick on one question for two hours.

The other Question is from Sen. Mungatana or the person holding brief for Sen. Korir. Considering the gender and youth issue, I will give Sen. Okenyuri the first priority because she is a youth.

Sen. Okenyuri, proceed to ask Question No.042 Question No.042

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I bring to the attention of this House that I am asking this Question on behalf of my senior, the Senator for Tana River, hon. Mungatana. He is away with the Cabinet Secretary, hon. Peninah Malonza, for a food distribution exercise to his people. Please, allow me to do what he would have done if he were here this morning.

Sen. Okenyuri, do you have any supplementary question or any instruction from Sen. Mungatana?

No, but I would request to ask what is related to my area on some of these questions?

Proceed to ask.

Through the Ministry’s Directorate of Veterinary Services (DVS) issued advisory to all counties to step up vector control measures and enhanced surveillance.

The Government, through the Ministry, procured 1.4 million doses of Rift Valley Fever (RVF) vaccines and 450,000 of the Blue Tongue Disease. Tana River received 150,000 doses of the RVF vaccines for the vaccination of the animals. That is what we the Ministry did in terms of trying to come through for the farmers or the people of Tana River County who lost their livelihoods through floods, either on the side of crops and livestock.

With regard to the question on whether the Government has plans to compensate farmers for the losses suffered and whether we have also budged allocation meant for this purpose, I will reply as follows:

The Government’s emergency response to the emergencies occasioned by floods does not include compensation to crop and livestock to the farmers affected by floods. The Government has no budgetary allocation for the purpose of compensation of farmers affected by the floods and it is worth noting that Tana River County is also affected by floods resulting from the heavy rainfall in the months of April and May.

This is the season we are in. It is not possible to pronounce ourselves on the level of damage caused by the floods as at now because the rains are still ongoing. It is not also possible to do a report to inform on the level of losses incurred as at now. We expect to deal with this issue once rains subside and everything returns to normal.

Thank you.

Sen. Okenyuri, do you have any supplementary question or any instruction from Sen. Mungatana?

No, but I would request to ask what is related to my area on some of these questions?

Proceed to ask.

Thank you very much, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I had gone to consult with my friends. My question is on geospatial surveying. Hon. Cabinet Secretary, we know that the county governments have been conducting geospatial surveys, and your Ministry, despite the fact that agriculture is a devolved function, is also planning to spend or request budget allocation of Kshs416 billion.

Would it not be cheaper for you to work in collaboration with the county governments, and use the geospatial survey that they have done and maybe customise it to your needs, so that you would not be doing what the county governments are supposed to do? This is because, more resources would be available for the county governments and technology transfer and know how would be given to the county governments.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. The Cabinet Secretary for Agriculture and Livestock Development

: Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I seek your guidance on how to deal with the issues because when I started answering the Questions, I cleared with Question No. 047, which had issues to do with coffee farms geospatial survey and geospatial references. We are over one hour after that Question, but I am being asked to go back to it.

Secondly, my able Secretary-General of United Democratic Alliance (UDA) , Sen. Veronica Maina, has also raised a question on whether we have money to pay for coffee debt, which I had answered. I think she had not come in then.

Sen. Veronica Maina, you cannot engage the Cabinet Secretary directly. However, Hon. Cabinet Secretary, I said Senators were queuing to ask supplementary questions. I decided that we go to the second question, but any Senator with any supplementary question could ask, because you have wide knowledge on whatever they are asking. That is why I decided to go to the next question because I know you are not challenged to handle a question on coffee again. However, bear with the situation that Senators are busy in other meetings, so they come and go. Others will come and still ask the same questions the others had asked. So, bear with us and maybe you can just give a---

The Cabinet Secretary for Agriculture and Livestock Development

: Well guided, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

You were doing so well by the way. The Cabinet Secretary for Agriculture and Livestock Development

: Sen. Veronica Maina, as my Secretary General, go and tell the people of Murang’a that there is the good news for them. That it is not only Murang’a that we are dealing with coffee debt, but other counties. In the next cabinet meeting, my Ministry and Ministry of Co-operatives and Micro, Small and Medium Enterprises Development, have already prepared a memorandum to seek approval to waive Kshs6 billion debt for coffee farmers in the country. So, whether it is Murang’a, Kiambu, Meru, Bungoma or wherever

Sen. Oketch Gicheru, proceed.

Sen. Tabitha Mutinda proceed.

Asante, Bw. Naibu Spika. Nitajaribu kuitumia lugha hii ya taifa. Waziri, swali langu bado linahusiana na kilimo cha kahawa kulingana na mwelekezo wa Naibu Spika. Swali langu hasa ni kuhusu mbolea spesheli ya ruzuku ambayo wakulima wa kahawa hawapokei katika Kaunti ya Meru. Sehemu nyingine

You were doing so well by the way. The Cabinet Secretary for Agriculture and Livestock Development

: Sen. Veronica Maina, as my Secretary General, go and tell the people of Murang’a that there is the good news for them. That it is not only Murang’a that we are dealing with coffee debt, but other counties. In the next cabinet meeting, my Ministry and Ministry of Co-operatives and Micro, Small and Medium Enterprises Development, have already prepared a memorandum to seek approval to waive Kshs6 billion debt for coffee farmers in the country. So, whether it is Murang’a, Kiambu, Meru, Bungoma or wherever

Sen. Mbugua, proceed.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. My question is related to the one by Sen. Mungatana on livestock. I would like to refer the Cabinet Secretary to the Session Paper No.3 of 2020 on production of livestock fodder. I would like you to tell this House how successful that is and if you have taken advantage of the long rains, so that there is enough fodder for our animals, especially in the northern region.

I thank you.

Proceed Sen. Wakili Sigei.

ninayo wakilisha ni ya Eastern hasa ikiongozwa na Kaunti ya Makueni ambapo tuna upanzi mkubwa wa kahawa.

Utakubaliana na Bunge hili la Seneti kuwa kilimo cha kahawa ni kipaombele cha uchumi wa nchi hii. Ni mipangilio ipi ambayo Wizara yako inafanya kuhakikisha kuwa wakulima wote wa kahawa wanapokea mbolea spesheli ya ruzuku?

Asante.

Sen. Mbugua, proceed.

fetch such good price would be put back, removed from the auction and presented again. This is what caused a lot of backlog and huge stock of unsold tea.

This matter has been addressed. I do not like being specific with the figures, especially through a supplementary question because it is not properly backed with the correct figures on which factory has which stock and when it is dated. However, we have substantially reduced the amount of tea that was lying in the warehouses at Mombasa. We are progressing this way because there are a number of reforms that we are bringing into the tea sector. We had sales at the tea auction, including direct sales from our own factories.

As I mentioned earlier, we did Kshs196 billion; a sum of Kshs180 billion from export and Kshs16 billion from local sales. This time round, mechanisms have been put in place, including roadshows, to sensitize our Kenyan people on the need to be a source of market for our own tea since we have a very big market that we have not utilised.

This is one of the ways to ensure that before we get to that level of new markets, we do not have a lot of tea in the market by providing an avenue to sell our tea locally and increase our sales.

The Senator asked a question in regard to livestock fodder production. We already have a mechanism in place. We have two projects: One under the Kenya Livestock Commercialization Project (KeLCoP) and drive. We launched this last year. It is a US$40 million project and the whole idea is to support farmers to do fodder production.

We have put money under the Kenya Development Corporation (KDC) and the Agricultural Finance Corporation (AFC) to ensure that young men and women or anybody else that want to engage in this business are able to access finances.

We have also made it clear within our land commercialization programme, which we are really trying to fast track, that we will set aside land to do fodder production. This is because, if we are to succeed in this area, we have to bring the cost of animal feeds down for our farmers to realise good value for their milk and animals.

Mheshimiwa, this is in progress. Pay a visit to my office so that if you have any farmers with land that you want supported, we will give them money so that they can support the country in producing fodder for animals.

The great lady from Meru and Makueni asked about fertilizer for coffee under the subsidy programme. Yes, we offer coffee fertilizer called 1717 under the subsidy programme. There has been a delay in the provision of the coffee fertilizer because of certain obvious reasons. Kenya does not produce fertilizer; we import it. It is common knowledge on the problems we have had in the Red Sea on importation and many other issues.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, yesterday evening, I confirmed that by the end of today or tomorrow, we will be able to mobilize the available coffee fertilizer. I am sure that ETG is bringing 1717 coffee fertilizer by end of day. It will be available latest tomorrow. I assure you that we have made provision for that. We have confirmed its availability and it will be in the market tomorrow.

I think I have answered the question on the waiver of the budget allocation for the debt on coffee farmers and other questions.

Yes. You have answered the questions. The Cabinet Secretary for Agriculture and Livestock Development

: Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. My question to the Hon. Cabinet Secretary relates to his earlier response particularly to coffee and tea. I would like to get his appreciation and effort to deal with the unresolved tea stocks currently in Mombasa County, which dates back to late 2023.

As at now, the statistics state that 236 million kilogrammes of tea are lying in the warehouses. Over 50 per cent of the tea is from the Western Rift region. The reports we are getting from the Tea Board of Kenya and the KTDA is that this has led to a reduction in the price by around 40 per cent. However, in as much as we appreciate the efforts in the reforms that the Ministry is doing - which have actually bore some positive leads to the farmers and the benefits thereof; this aspect of unsold tea is something that most of our farmers are suffering a great deal from.

Hon. Cabinet Secretary, remember that right now we are experiencing heavy rains and tea production is definitely going to go up. The more the rains the more the production. The worry is that in as much as we cannot deal with this unsold stock, this is will be a bigger problem and it will lie heavily on the farmers of the West Rift region.

I thank you.

Okay. Hon. Cabinet Secretary proceed to answer those three questions.

The Cabinet Secretary for Agriculture and Livestock Development

: Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, allow me to start with the last question. It is not true that we have 236 million kilogrammes worth of unsold tea stock in Mombasa County. I had a meeting with the KTDA yesterday in Nandi County together with the Tea Board of Kenya. I had led this team to China when we were sourcing for markets for the private farmers.

The figures that the Senator has mentioned date back to last year. Immediately after, I appointed the current Chief Executive Officer (CEO) of the Tea Board of Kenya, Mr. Willy Mutai, who has done a very good job. We have been able to push the sales of tea and ensure that the tea whose stock had accumulated in Mombasa County has been reduced substantially. The tea that we have left is slightly below 10 million kilogrammes.

It is also important to mention that the reason why there was huge accumulation was because the quality of tea from a number of factories was not good. Tea being sold at the auction had a reserve price of a certain amount of dollars. Any tea that would not

Sen. Miraj, proceed.

Asante, Bw. Naibu Spika, kwa kunipa fursa hii ili niweze kumuuliza maswali mawili au matatu, Bw. Waziri.

Let us get another round from Sen. Mandago.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. My supplementary question to the Cabinet Secretary follows what Sen. Mutinda asked about coffee. We hear there are plans to waive loans for coffee farmers. Are there plans to also waive loans for cereal farmers through the AFC loans?

A supplementary question for Sen. Mungatana’s Question on livestock. Are there plans to supply the outstanding milk coolers under the programme that was run by your Ministry through the support of Polish Government, as some counties such as mine, had already built the structures? The milk coolers were supposed to come from the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock Development under the national Government. Are there plans to complete that project because we are still waiting for them?

Sen. Miraj, proceed.

Asante, Bw. Naibu Spika, kwa kunipa fursa hii ili niweze kumuuliza maswali mawili au matatu, Bw. Waziri.

For the last three seasons, farmers have not harvested anything. Most of the farm structures and citrus fruits have been destroyed.

Is there any plan from your Ministry? Whenever there is a disaster, farmers normally get compensation or assistance just like the way you are now giving waivers and bailing out coffee farmers. Even at your backyard, the miraa farmers were bailed out last time when miraa had been stopped from Somalia and all those places. However, farmers downstream of Tana River never get compensation. The farmers are not producing anything.

Bw. Waziri, is there anything in place for you to support? The downstream farmers are having problems and never harvested anything for the last three years. Is there any interventions or plan from your Ministry or the Government to support those farmers to at least recover from the losses?

Cabinet Secretary, answer those three questions then we move to the last by Sen. Joyce Korir.

The Cabinet Secretary for Agriculture and Livestock Development

: Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the last question was asked by the great lady who asked the question on behalf of Sen. Mungatana. As at now, we cannot establish the loss incurred by farmers due to floods because it is premature. The rains are still ongoing.

We have not taken full stock. I gave an update on the acreage of land that has already been destroyed by the floods. You never know if they may extend to other farms. It is just as we have been moving people from the riparian areas for fear of the overflows affecting our people.

When the Cabinet will sit to make decisions, at that appropriate time, I will be able to present a case for consideration. For now, I do not want to tell you that there is so much money.

Secondly, I said that we have crops insurance. Once this is done, it will be necessary of us to sit down with our insurers and see how we can compensate them. I would suggest that we give it time because there is a need to consult further. However, you are raising these questions at a very good time.

From now henceforth, the decision that we make is also informed by the sentiments that the hon. Senators are making. We must be able to capture the feelings of the representatives of the people. If we have to come up with a solution, it should address and be appreciated by the people that we intend to indemnify in case we get a clear way on how to do it.

Madam from Mombasa, let me put it very clearly. You said you want KMC back so that people do not chew muguka and miraa. These are scheduled crops. I was in the National Assembly with Sen. Cheptumo when we amended the Crops Act to provide muguka or miraa as a crop like any other.

It is unfortunate that in some areas of this country, people would treat those as if they are lesser crops. From the Senate, miraa or muguka is a crop like cotton, maize or any other and requires respect just like any other. For the avoidance of doubt, the AFA Act recognizes a directorate called the miraa and pyrethrum directorate. We cannot negotiate because miraa is in law.

Even tobacco is a crop. Each of these crops have specific benefits to the country. I do not want to assure you that we will take back KMC to the public. It will remain as a

Swali lako ni moja lakini unauliza kwa kutumia maneno 1,000.

Sen. Abass, proceed.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Mine is a supplementary question to the question asked by Sen. Mungatana.

Farmers along River Tana, especially the lower stream, have had a lot of problems in the past and even now. Whenever it rains, the Kenya Electricity Generating Company PLC (KenGen) dams overflow and destroy all the farms in the three counties; that is, Garissa, Tana River, Lamu and part of Kilifi and Kwale.

For the last three seasons, farmers have not harvested anything. Most of the farm structures and citrus fruits have been destroyed.

Is there any plan from your Ministry? Whenever there is a disaster, farmers normally get compensation or assistance just like the way you are now giving waivers and bailing out coffee farmers. Even at your backyard, the miraa farmers were bailed out last time when miraa had been stopped from Somalia and all those places. However, farmers downstream of Tana River never get compensation. The farmers are not producing anything.

Bw. Waziri, is there anything in place for you to support? The downstream farmers are having problems and never harvested anything for the last three years. Is there any interventions or plan from your Ministry or the Government to support those farmers to at least recover from the losses?

Cabinet Secretary, answer those three questions then we move to the last by

I am just raising concern so that we are allowed to plan ourselves appropriately. I came in at 9.00 a.m. because this Question was meant to be asked by Sen. Joyce.

Government agency. It is doing a very good job under the leadership of the Major- General and making profits for the first time.

You do not take years to be paid after taking your animals to KMC. I ask our livestock farmers not to bother much looking for market for their livestock. Once your livestock is of age, talk to KMC, get a movement permit and take your ng'ombe there. They will be bought instantly.

We already have market for our livestock. You will not take beyond 72 hours to be paid. They do not require any money from Government to pay you. It is a commercial enterprise that is running well and generating revenue. I am looking forward to when we will have paid all those debts and will be paying money back to the Exchequer. That is the position.

People from the Arid and Semi-Arid Land (ASAL) counties, those that are keeping livestock, we have a market that is assured. We do not have to be afraid. Their prices are very good. The process of identifying the value is on grading.

The grading system is what is paying farmers at KMC. If you have kept your animal well and is of good quality, you will fetch a better price than anyone else who has not done so. That recognizes and rewards good work and proper animal husbandry. Therefore, KMC is there to stay because it is doing a good job. It is buying animals from our farmers and paying us in good time.

The Senator of Uasin Gishu asked about coolers. We have talked about coolers for quite some time. We intend to actualize this dream in the shortest time possible, possibly before the end of the year.

At times, some things are beyond our control. When I took over the Ministry, this project had been there for quite a long time. You know this is a pet project for the President because we want to create value to ensure that milk from our farmers is not spoilt. They need to have these coolers.

We were not very fortunate because this is a Polish-tied credit between Poland and Kenya. National Treasury had sent money to my Ministry to pay and meet our bargain. Before we could conclude, there was a change of guard in Poland and the government changed. It then became difficult for us to continue with that programme because they said they required time to do an audit of the projects that the former administration had got itself into.

This gave us a serious setback and that is where we are. However, we have now agreed that the Prime Cabinet Secretary will be leading a delegation to Poland next month so that we can see whether we can sort out this matter with the Polish Government to restart the process of availing coolers to our farmers. That is the position.

We regret the delay. How I wish Kenyans were paying enough taxes that we would be able to finance our projects and not beg throughout. We have to bear with the situation. That is where we are as of now. However, I am sure we will be able to provide coolers to our farmers. The faster it is done, the happier I will be.

Our farmers have done what they are supposed to do. Milk production has increased in the country. So, I ask leaders to also give us support, so that at least we do not discourage our farmers. However, leave it to us. Let us see what comes out of the meeting we are going to have in Poland. We will be able to solve this problem.

Thank you.

Just ask the Question, Sen. Sigei. Question No.19

Before I ask my Question, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I note from the Order Paper that this was the first question that ought to have come before the other two.

You are out of order, Sen. Sigei. Just ask the question.

I am just raising concern so that we are allowed to plan ourselves appropriately. I came in at 9.00 a.m. because this Question was meant to be asked by Sen. Joyce.

standards that meet the international requirements for any food items for consumption, the Government has developed several legislations to address this particular issue.

We all know that we have the Animal Disease Act, Cap 364 which provides that all animals presented for slaughter are free from disease and that they are moved to slaughterhouses accompanied by a movement permit, which attests to the provision of the Animal Disease Act have been met.

That is one of the measures we have put to ensure compliance with the Animal Disease Act Cap 364. There is also the Meat Control Act. These are the pieces of legislation that are in place to guarantee the safety of our meat. The Meat Control Act also is an assurance of meat safety and provides for control to be exercised over meat and meat products intended for human consumption.

The Meat Control Act has also provided for inspecting officers, where the Act authorises a meat inspector from the Government to ensure that before any meat is consumed, it is properly inspected.

I am sorry, Cabinet Secretary. I have been consulting the owner of this Question because this response is very comprehensive, it is here with me, and it has been circulated. I am consulting whether Sen. Sigei is comfortable with this response because it is very comprehensive. I want to know from the owner of the Question whether you are satisfied, then we make some progress.

Sen. Sigei?

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I confirm that I have gone through the response from the Hon. Cabinet Secretary. I have equally shared with the questioner, Sen. Joyce, and I believe she has gone through it. As comprehensive as it is, we do not necessarily need to trouble the Hon. Cabinet Secretary to go through the entire response. He could just highlight---

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, on behalf of Sen. Joyce Korir, I beg to ask the Hon.Cabinet Secretary for Agriculture and Livestock Development the following Question No.19.

Cabinet Secretary? The Cabinet Secretary for Agriculture and Livestock Development

: Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply as follows.

As a Government, we have implemented certain requirements under the Fourth Schedule of the Constitution on distribution. We appreciate the functions of each level of government as provided for in Schedule Four of the Constitution. The national Government develops veterinary policies, which are implemented by county governments to ensure meat safety.

In addition, the national Government offers capacity building and technical assistance to the counties. So, to ensure that there is the safety of meat that complies with

Hon. Cabinet Secretary?

I am sorry, Cabinet Secretary. I have been consulting the owner of this Question because this response is very comprehensive, it is here with me, and it has been circulated. I am consulting whether Sen. Sigei is comfortable with this response because it is very comprehensive. I want to know from the owner of the Question whether you are satisfied, then we make some progress.

Sen. Sigei?

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I confirm that I have gone through the response from the Hon. Cabinet Secretary. I have equally shared with the questioner, Sen. Joyce, and I believe she has gone through it. As comprehensive as it is, we do not necessarily need to trouble the Hon. Cabinet Secretary to go through the entire response. He could just highlight---

Do you have any supplementary question?

I have only a single supplementary question. The Deputy Speaker (

Bw. Naibu Spika, nashukuru Waziri wa Kilimo kwa kupata fursa kufika katika Bunge la Seneti. Nashukuru kwa yale mabadiliko anafanya kwenye sekta ya kilimo ingawa najua siyo sekta rahisi.

Ningependa kuuliza Waziri atoe hakikisho kwa taifa – tumeona kwenye vyombo vya habari kwamba kuna upungufu wa pembejeo ambayo inawekwa juu ya mahindi. Kwa lugha ya Kimombo ni top dressing.

Anaweza hakikishia wananchi kuwa kuna pembejeo ya kutosha katika maghala ya kitaifa kwa wakulima wa mahindi.

Mwisho, ametenga ridhaa kwa wale wakulima ambao walipata matatizo ama shida wakati wakupata mbolea mwezi uliopita. Bw. Waziri alikuwa Kaunti ya Nandi jana na alisema kutokana na ile subsidy inatolewa ya mbolea tumepata mapato zaidi, hasa sekta ya majani chai.

Waziri atoe hakikisho kwa wakulima wa Kenya. Na aseme neno moja tu na roho zetu kama wakulima wa taifa la Kenya zitatulia.

Yes, just ask your supplementary question, then we make progress and give a few Senators, then we conclude.

Very well. Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. My supplementary question is about the efforts that the Ministry is undertaking in a bid to enhance the leather industry in terms of value addition and the improvement in the technological aspect of the tanneries that are currently in place.

I recall that sometimes back in the Lake Basin counties, where Bomet County is a member, there were efforts to set up a tannery that would serve the region. Currently, there are 14 tanneries and we do not have one around that region. So, I would be very happy to hear what efforts the Hon. Cabinet Secretary and the Ministry are taking to enhance that aspect.

Hon. Cabinet Secretary?

The Cabinet Secretary for Agriculture and Livestock Development (Hon. Mithika Linturi): Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, before I even answer his question, I appreciate your guidance and appreciation of the comprehensive nature of the answer given, allow me just to mention this within a minute or two, because we have comprehensive legislation to address all our issues.

Our main problem has been enforcement. Today is the 31st day since we launched the Rapid Resource Initiative (RRI) to ensure meat safety. What we have generally done for the distinguished Senators to understand is that we have formed a multi-agency team in all 47 counties.

The lead Cabinet Secretaries in this matter are the ones in charge of Interior, Agriculture and Health. This is to ensure that no meat is out there that is not safe. So, we have highway patrols and roadblocks have been mounted. We have weekly patrols on inspections for compliance. We have mapped out those illegal hotspots for illegal slaughterhouses. I am trying to deal with donkeys. Out of all this, we are getting very good results. However, this is being done through the multiagency to ensure that our meat is safe for human consumption.

Sen. Wakili Sigei, the leather value chain is a key area on the agenda. We have programmes that we are dealing with at the Department of Livestock, like Linda Ngozi. The whole idea is to ensure that we can mop up all the available hides and skins because we want to ensure there is value in using them.

We want to add value to the skins through a process. Members need to know why it is an area where people have not been keen. One square foot of leather goes for Kshs94. When you want to convert or turn the leather to leather usable for making shoes, leather bags and belts, the component used is worth Kshs87. The material or leather required to make leather more useful is too expensive.

This is why you find in the current Finance Bill that we have proposed to reduce tax on material that will be used to turn leather so that we can at least bring down this cost.

Secondly, Kibabii University and Dedan Kimathi University of Technology (DeKUT) have programmes where we come up with the glue that is the raw material required through science and innovation. These universities have done well because we are now able to produce this chemical locally from the initial trials that have been made. The next phase will ask Parliament to support these universities in commercializing the products so that our leather value chain achieves the intended objective.

Some of the things we are doing, we have taken hard decisions to make them. However painful they are, a few Kenyans will understand why we must do it and others will make political capital.

People are being overtaxed for whatever reason. However, we have to make certain decisions that may be painful for now, but will realize results and sort out some of the big problems the country has.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Thank you. Sen. Cherarkey, do you have a supplementary question?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have a supplementary question.

Let me make it short. Kuna wahisani ambao wamekuja Marsabit na Turkana. Shirika moja linaitwa Drought Resilience Programme in Northern Kenya (DRPNK) ambalo ni la Kijerumani. La pili ni Kenya Livestock Commercialisation Project (KeLCoP) na la tatu ni Food Systems Resilience Programme (FSRP) .

Ningependa Bw. Waziri ajue kuwa pesa zote za donor funding zilitolewa. Hata hivyo, miaka mitatu sasa ilhali hakuna maendeleo yoyote yamefanyika katika maeneo yetu. Pesa zote zilienda kwa mishahara ya Wazungu na nauli yao kwenda Marekani, Uropa na Mombasa. Vile vile walinunua magari makubwa makubwa. Mishahara na marupurupu wanayolipwa ilichangia pesa hiyo kuisha.

Je, Bw. Waziri utachukua hatua gani kuhakikisha Wazungu---

Sen. Cherarkey, you are out of order.

Bi. Spika wa Muda, nachukua nafasi hii kumshukuru Waziri kwa kuja. Kuna Seneta ambaye amesema kuwa Waziri huwa haji hapa. Amekuja hapa mara

Proceed, Hon. Cabinet Secretary.

The Cabinet Secretary for Agriculture and Livestock Development

: Madam Temporary Speaker, let me try to respond to the issues raised by the Senator regarding KeLCoP and FSRP. These are projects that we implement together with the county governments. They are donor-funded projects with regulations.

We have been very clear that once finance agreements are done and we find that the projects in their normal structure do not correspond to our BETA, we have room to readjust those components being financed, so that they can speak to what the Government’s agenda is. That is why I had a meeting with the World Bank last week. Another one will be on Thursday morning.

It is not factual that money for FSRP and KeLCoP is being spent by Europeans on trips and other things. Do you know why? It is because the FSRP is a project that is starting now. The project is barely two months old. This project has not started. The project coordinator was my technical advisor. What I can say is that the project has not started.

The KeLCoP is an old project in the sense that it has been there for around three or four months. Probably, there could be other projects that have not been managed in the right way but we are now keen to deal with them.

Hon. Senators, if you have issues, please pay us a visit in the office. That way, we can sit down with the project coordinator and get things as they are. You can as well do a letter to me so that we answer specifically to those issues that leaders have.

We operate an open-door policy where Members can come, sit down and engage. If you want to come as a team, I can organise my technical people and all those running these projects then we deal with them.

Last week we met with county governments and the National Agricultural Value Chain Development Project (NAVCDP) to align projects to suit the demands of our people, county governments and national Government’s agenda.

Finally, I am aware and know that ASALs suffered a lot during the last drought. To specifically answer the Senator, we have taken Isiolo as the hub of the six counties within North Eastern region. We are doing the Isiolo Abattoir because that is the meat hub for that region. We mean business and found the market to support our livestock farmers in Jordan, United Arab Emirates (UAE) and Saudi Arabia.

We have an Airport in Isiolo. We feel it will be easier to airlift meat to these new market destinations, so that there is more value for livestock keepers in that particular region. The Government is trying to work with the County Government of Isiolo to ensure that we finish that.

We are also supporting building or putting up of feedlots within those areas, so that we can fatten our animals and increase the quality of meat to ensure we have prime beef and mutton for exchange. That is a demonstration of how committed the Government is.

Sen. Chute, you know you are supposed to ask one question only.

I know, Madam Temporary Speaker. I even presented my case earlier.

I will indulge you. Please make it short.

Let me make it short. Kuna wahisani ambao wamekuja Marsabit na Turkana. Shirika moja linaitwa Drought Resilience Programme in Northern Kenya (DRPNK) ambalo ni la Kijerumani. La pili ni Kenya Livestock Commercialisation Project (KeLCoP) na la tatu ni Food Systems Resilience Programme (FSRP) .

Ningependa Bw. Waziri ajue kuwa pesa zote za donor funding zilitolewa. Hata hivyo, miaka mitatu sasa ilhali hakuna maendeleo yoyote yamefanyika katika maeneo yetu. Pesa zote zilienda kwa mishahara ya Wazungu na nauli yao kwenda Marekani, Uropa na Mombasa. Vile vile walinunua magari makubwa makubwa. Mishahara na marupurupu wanayolipwa ilichangia pesa hiyo kuisha.

Je, Bw. Waziri utachukua hatua gani kuhakikisha Wazungu---

Sen. Cherarkey, you are out of order.

Wazungu wanaleta misaada kwetu lakini inarudi tena kama mishahara, marupurupu na vitu vingine. Bw. Waziri atafanya nini kuhakikisha kuwa angalau asilimia 80 au 90 za pesa zinazoletwa kusaidia inaenda kwa wananchi wa Kenya?

Proceed, Hon. Cabinet Secretary.

The Cabinet Secretary for Agriculture and Livestock Development

: Madam Temporary Speaker, let me try to respond to the issues raised by the Senator regarding KeLCoP and FSRP. These are projects that we implement together with the county governments. They are donor-funded projects with regulations.

We have been very clear that once finance agreements are done and we find that the projects in their normal structure do not correspond to our BETA, we have room to readjust those components being financed, so that they can speak to what the Government’s agenda is. That is why I had a meeting with the World Bank last week. Another one will be on Thursday morning.

It is not factual that money for FSRP and KeLCoP is being spent by Europeans on trips and other things. Do you know why? It is because the FSRP is a project that is starting now. The project is barely two months old. This project has not started. The project coordinator was my technical advisor. What I can say is that the project has not started.

The KeLCoP is an old project in the sense that it has been there for around three or four months. Probably, there could be other projects that have not been managed in the right way but we are now keen to deal with them.

Hon. Senators, if you have issues, please pay us a visit in the office. That way, we can sit down with the project coordinator and get things as they are. You can as well do a letter to me so that we answer specifically to those issues that leaders have.

We operate an open-door policy where Members can come, sit down and engage. If you want to come as a team, I can organise my technical people and all those running these projects then we deal with them.

Last week we met with county governments and the National Agricultural Value Chain Development Project (NAVCDP) to align projects to suit the demands of our people, county governments and national Government’s agenda.

Finally, I am aware and know that ASALs suffered a lot during the last drought. To specifically answer the Senator, we have taken Isiolo as the hub of the six counties within North Eastern region. We are doing the Isiolo Abattoir because that is the meat hub for that region. We mean business and found the market to support our livestock farmers in Jordan, United Arab Emirates (UAE) and Saudi Arabia.

We have an Airport in Isiolo. We feel it will be easier to airlift meat to these new market destinations, so that there is more value for livestock keepers in that particular region. The Government is trying to work with the County Government of Isiolo to ensure that we finish that.

We are also supporting building or putting up of feedlots within those areas, so that we can fatten our animals and increase the quality of meat to ensure we have prime beef and mutton for exchange. That is a demonstration of how committed the Government is.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. My question is on markets. We have seven main exporters which the Cabinet Secretary has highlighted.

My supplementary question is that in the past, our livestock produce was blocked in certain markets like the European markets and the concern was on disease control.

The Cabinet Secretary can highlight the status of those markets that were blocked. As a Ministry, is there anything they are doing to create disease-free zones, which was what was required of Kenya in order for our livestock produce to be accepted in markets such as the Europe?

Thank you, hon. Cabinet Secretary. Sen. Gloria Orwoba.

What is your point of order, Sen. Chute?

Madam Temporary Speaker, maybe the hon. Cabinet Secretary forgot my question. I asked him whether the AFC loans for our people can be waived. If not, they be given more time to pay because of what they went through.

Hon. Cabinet Secretary? The Cabinet Secretary for Agriculture and Livestock Development

: Sorry, Madam Temporary Speaker, this one escaped my mind. However, I would like to say that we cannot have a blanket waiver without properly doing an assessment on a case by case basis and getting to know how many people are affected.

It is common knowledge that people may have lost their livelihoods out of this. However, we really need to know who they are, how much money was given to them and then see what consideration can be made. If I had that kind of information, then it is not much to write to the Cabinet seeking approval or explaining those cases. If there are farmers that are known, then let us have those details and we will treat that matter with the urgency that is required.

Considering Sen. Chute has also raised it, for some time people have thought that AFC is a place to go pick money and stay without paying. That is why we are reluctant. That is why also, AFC is not fully capitalized because politicians and senior Government officers have taken money from AFC and have never paid.

Please take note that I will release a list of shame of people who sit in this Senate, the National Assembly, in the Executive and governors as well, who have taken money and do not pay.

Sen. Oketch Gicheru, proceed with your question so that we give the Cabinet Secretary time to respond to those three questions.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I will go there so that I can see the Cabinet Secretary because I cannot see him from this other side.

Hon. Cabinet Secretary, I am Sen. Oketch Gicheru from Migori County. My concern is on the previous Question we had explored around coffee. The same magnitude of investment that I am seeing in coffee is what I would wish to see in Migori's Lower Kuja Irrigation Scheme project in Nyatike County. There has been a prolonged by inordinate incompletion and lack of compensation to the farmers who are doing rice in that region. That rice scheme in Lower Kuja has very immense potential.

Petitions have been brought to the Senate before on this issue and the national Government has not dealt with it. This issue came here during my predecessor’s time, Hon. Ochillo Ayacko and those farmers in Nyatike have not been compensated. The completion framework for that rice scheme included a serious yearn to figure out the market strategy. You will find that paddy rice is being taken all the way to Uganda and the people in Nyatike just remain to be people who are having their land exploited and they do not get benefit from---

Sen. Oketch Gicheru, I know the female Senators have much more words than the male Senators, for some reason, but your question sounds like a whole essay. Can you shorten it and make it specific and precise?

I was going to make it precise, but on this issue, it is because Cabinet Secretaries keep come here, but it has not been addressed. I do not even need an answer. I needed the Cabinet Secretary to take note on this and even leave with me here and go and help me solve that issue in Lower Kuja Irrigation Scheme.

He also spoke about the feedlots to promote the quality of our meat for export. Is there any additional value that the Ministry is doing on those feedlots to ensure that they are sustainable?

Hon. Cabinet Secretary, hold a bit so that we take two more questions.

Sen. Mbugua and then Sen. Oketch Gicheru.

question on that completion and compensation of those farmers so that we find a long- lasting solution to the people of Nyatike and Migori.

Lastly, as I finish, would you also comment on the Karamu Slaughter House that I heard you talk about on the potential for prime meat. In Karamu in Kuria West, there is a slaughterhouse that has been there for the longest time and the case for investment is not clear from the national Government. Would you also just comment on that as well, Bw. Cabinet Secretary? Thank you, so much.

The Temporary Speaker (Sen. Veronica Maina): Hon. Cabinet Secretary, proceed.

The Cabinet Secretary for Agriculture and Livestock Development (Hon. Mithika Linturi): Madam Temporary Speaker, let me start answering the Migori County Senator. The Ministry has a framework or is developing the process of ensuring that the potential areas that we have identified for rice farming are properly supported. I remember some time back, because rice is a close substitute for maize and our consumption for it is beyond one million tons every year, and yet we do not produce 30 per cent of it. That is one of the reasons why there is a serious squeeze on our foreign currency because we have to pay so much money.

We have identified areas, including Migori, Tana River and Kirinyaga where we want to support farmers to grow rice. There are many areas that we have agreed require support for rice production. I may not be able to specifically tell you whatever support is coming to your county because that is not a question I was prepared to answer. However, if you want me to give you more specific answers to the question, then we do not mind getting a request on whatever you want us to explain to you.

Your governor is my friend. We discuss once in a while on how to support Migori. I was supposed to have been there on the 13th and 14th, but unfortunately, other things arose and I was unable to make it. However, I made a commitment that I will visit. Your county is one of those areas that we want to support farmers to grow enough rice for us to be able to bring down the rice deficit in the country.

Concerning the Karamu Slaughter House that you have just mentioned, I may not be able to give more details about it because I have heard it for the first time on the floor. Given time, we may do some bit of research and give my officers opportunity to look at it and respond appropriately.

Madam Temporary Speaker, allow me to comment on the issue about trade markets for meat. Sen. Orwoba had asked what we want to do and the specific measures we are taking. The reason our export for meat has had issues is because we have not complied to certain standards, which ensure that our animals live in quarantine so that the risk of disease is minimized so that we are able to control the Food and Mouth Disease (FMD) and other diseases.

One of the strategies or reasoning behind the 31 feedlots that we want to do is to ensure that the animals that we keep within the feedlots system will feed properly so that we improve on the quality of our meat. We will then invite those countries that have expressed interest in getting our meat to come, visit and see where our animals are kept.

This is because they would want to satisfy that requirement of animals being under quarantine. When we do so, their movement will be restricted. The disease control is in place and, for that matter, the probability of them getting high-quality disease-free meat is guaranteed.

Sen. Oketch Gicheru, proceed with your question so that we give the Cabinet Secretary time to respond to those three questions.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I will go there so that I can see the Cabinet Secretary because I cannot see him from this other side.

Hon. Cabinet Secretary, I am Sen. Oketch Gicheru from Migori County. My concern is on the previous Question we had explored around coffee. The same magnitude of investment that I am seeing in coffee is what I would wish to see in Migori's Lower Kuja Irrigation Scheme project in Nyatike County. There has been a prolonged by inordinate incompletion and lack of compensation to the farmers who are doing rice in that region. That rice scheme in Lower Kuja has very immense potential.

Petitions have been brought to the Senate before on this issue and the national Government has not dealt with it. This issue came here during my predecessor’s time, Hon. Ochillo Ayacko and those farmers in Nyatike have not been compensated. The completion framework for that rice scheme included a serious yearn to figure out the market strategy. You will find that paddy rice is being taken all the way to Uganda and the people in Nyatike just remain to be people who are having their land exploited and they do not get benefit from---

Sen. Oketch Gicheru, I know the female Senators have much more words than the male Senators, for some reason, but your question sounds like a whole essay. Can you shorten it and make it specific and precise?

I was going to make it precise, but on this issue, it is because Cabinet Secretaries keep come here, but it has not been addressed. I do not even need an answer. I needed the Cabinet Secretary to take note on this and even leave with me here and go and help me solve that issue in Lower Kuja Irrigation Scheme.

Sen. Oketch Gicheru, it is question time. You are allowed to pose it as a substantive question so that the Cabinet Secretary responds to it.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I wish that you would allow for framing of questions because the Cabinet Secretary was not asked this question when he was coming here. If he does not have the right texture for it, then it would be another charade of just asking questions for the sake of it. However, I am asking a very serious

question on that completion and compensation of those farmers so that we find a long- lasting solution to the people of Nyatike and Migori.Lastly, as I finish, would you also comment on the Karamu Slaughter House that I heard you talk about on the potential for prime meat. In Karamu in Kuria West, there is a slaughterhouse that has been there for the longest time and the case for investment is not clear from the national Government. Would you also just comment on that as well, Bw. Cabinet Secretary? Thank you, so much.The Temporary Speaker (

Do you want a clarification?

That is one of the reasons behind the feedlots system. When the South Africans and people from Jordan fly in tomorrow, we are able to show them where our meat will be coming from, whether it is in Isiolo, Turkana or wherever it is. They will be able to see that.

Secondly, the export markets for meat in Middle East and United Arab Emirates (UAE) are the biggest markets for our beef. In order to ensure that there is quality and safety in our beef, we have now operationalized nine export slaughterhouses in the country so that they are able to comply with the standards that are required.

This whole idea is towards being able to finish our bit properly so that our access to the foreign markets is achieved.

Ten days ago, a team came back from Uruguay. We had sent a team of farmers, storekeepers just as I did with the issue of tea. Our livestock keepers and the Ministry went all the way to Uruguay to visit and learn what the requirements of access for beef produce were to the European Union (EU) markets so that we can at least ensure that what we produce is market targeted. Once we comply with their requirements on production, then our market is properly assured and our farmers will be happy.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I thank you. I am losing my voice because I have a cold.

On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker.

Hon. Cabinet Secretary, do you need some water?

The Cabinet Secretary for Agriculture and Livestock Development

: Unless it is warm which is not possible.

The Cabinet Secretary for Agriculture and Livestock Development (Hon. Mithika Linturi): I can try.

Hon. Senators, you will bear with the Cabinet Secretary. He will take only one more question. Ideally, I should have released him, he has been on his feet and I think he is a bit indisposed. So, we will have the final question from Sen. Thangw’a.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker for your generosity to serve our Cabinet Secretary with warm water. You should have just added a little bit of sugar and coffee for him to enjoy one of the crops that he is mandated to protect.

My question goes towards what the Cabinet Secretary has said about the AFC. Not many Kenyans know and understand that this AFC give loans to people who want to develop agriculture.

As a Ministry, what are you doing to sensitize Kenyans, especially the youth to know and understand that this is one of the corporations that give loans with less interest compared to the others? If Parliament can see the efforts, it can then allocate more money to AFC.

In conclusion, now that the Cabinet Secretary has said that he will release the list of people or politicians who took loans from AFC and they have never paid, maybe he can tell us the number of days we should give him to releases that list. They were not kind to you during the impeachment time, so do not be kind to them.

Release the name of any politician who has taken money from AFC and how much they have taken and whether they will be repaying or not. We need the names of all Senators, Members of Parliament, the Executive and everybody else who has a loan with AFC published. This will be another way of sensitizing so that Kenyans can understand that there is money for them, but some politicians took it and they have never paid it.

Hon. Cabinet Secretary, you have been given the warm water you requested for and maybe take a minute so that you can come back and respond to Sen. Oketch Gicherus’ question and the final one by Sen. Thang’wa.

The Cabinet Secretary for Agriculture and Livestock Development

: I did.

Do you want a clarification?

Bw. Cabinet Secretary, is your Ministry aware that for the last six years the Lower Kuja Irrigation Development Project in Nyatike Sub County - and I know you stated that the Government is supporting this - and the National Irrigation Authority (NIA) took a lot of land for the development of that nucleus project? There was supposed to be compensation that was clearly articulated by the national Government through the authority to all the farmers in Nyatike.

Up to date, they have not received this compensation. This has left them to exploitation. They have lost their land and cannot participate in rice production. I was asking whether you could help us intervene on this---

Sen. Oketch Gicheru, if I can guide you. That is a substantive Question and does not sound strong enough to come in as a supplementary to original Question that the Cabinet Secretary was asked.

I guide that you pose it as a substantive question through the secretariat. The hon. Cabinet Secretary can come back with actual figures because compensation is about money, funding and very specific answers. It also sounds like a very weighty question for the people of Nyatike.

Hon. Cabinet Secretary, if you want to throw in a comment, it is okay. That is my guide on that supplementary question.

The Cabinet Secretary for Agriculture and Livestock Development

: Madam Temporary Speaker, I completely agree with you. We do not mind it coming because it is the right way to go.

Allow me to finish the matter concerning the way we market because it appears that Mheshimiwa is very keen on this. I was just trying to be moderate. One of the greatest problems we have had in most of our access for markets for meat is the foot and mouth disease.

If you remember, two months ago, Kenya signed the economic partnership agreements with the EU. It was part of the process towards accessing the EU markets. The Ministry is working towards meeting the EU standards despite the many challenges that we are facing. For us to be within the set and agreed standards, we are bringing in the issue of quarantine and ensuring our animals are under the feedlot system so that at least, there is a high degree of measure of control of disease.

Thank you.

Hon. Cabinet Secretary, I can see you need to take a break. I do not know if you are able to take one more question from Sen. Thangw’a to close the session.

The Cabinet Secretary for Agriculture and Livestock Development (Hon. Mithika Linturi): I can try.

sectors can be supported. Then we can stimulate economic growth through investment in agriculture.

Less than a month ago, I was opening a forum in Safari Park on agricultural financing. We had around 32 exhibitors and people supporting this sector.

While everybody appreciates, the manner and the state in which we are, we have really to work extra hard to ensure that we generate more revenue to be able to finance these critical sectors of our economy because of their potential to stimulate economic growth.

So, once we have support from the National Assembly, especially with the exchequer financing, then we will be glad to come through for our farmers.

Thank you.

Thank you, Hon. Cabinet Secretary. I release you now. Thank you for responding to all the queries.

Hon. Senators, for any substantive questions, please send them to the Secretariat, Clerk's Office, and they will be posted to the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock Development for proper and quality responses.

Thank you very much, Hon. Cabinet Secretary, for your engagement. Clerk, next order?

Sen. Eddy Oketch, what is your point of order?

Madam Temporary Speaker, I am rising on a point of order under Standing Order No.101 on the content of speech.

Is it in order for the Senator for Kiambu to impute that MPs, for which our Standing Orders does not allow, were unfair to the Cabinet Secretary in any way in whichever deliberations? If it is not in order, may he withdraw that statement and apologise.

What is your point of order, Sen. Cherarkey?

Madam Temporary Speaker, under Article 10 the Rule of Law and Principles of Natural Justice and also what is called judicial notice, what Sen. Thang’wa just mentioned is in the public domain. It is not new. Sen. Thang’wa did not go into detail or substrata of the engagement that was done in the ‘Lower’ House. Allow that matter to rest there. Sen. Eddy wants to milk political capital which is no longer there.

There are two points of order that have been raised. One by Sen. Eddy and a response point of order by Sen. Cherarkey. The first one is regarding the rationale of the judgement. Whether the National Assembly was fair to the Cabinet Secretary or not.

That is a question that was considered before the committee in the National Assembly and should be left to rest. The decision was rendered. Whether it was fair or

not, it remains subject to the opinion of the masses. We do not have to kill ourselves with it. The verdict was rendered.

In all fairness then, it would also not be correct for Sen. Thang’wa to impute that it was either fair or unfair. It was not subject of discussion.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. This is the report of the Parliament of Kenya delegation to the 13th plenary assembly of the Forum of Parliaments of the member states of the International Conference on the Great Lakes Region (FP-ICGLR) , held in Juba, South Sudan from 28th March to 1st April, 2023.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I beg to Move- THAT, the Senate notes Report of the Parliament of Kenya Delegation to the 13th Plenary Assembly of the Forum of Parliaments of the Member States of the International Conference on the Great Lakes Region (FP-ICGLR) , held in Juba, South Sudan, laid on the table of Senate on Thursday, 7th December, 2023.

The FP-ICGLR was established on 4th December, 2008 in Kigali Rwanda, following the signing of the Interparliamentary Agreement establishing it. The organs of the forum are as follows –

Thank you, Hon. Cabinet Secretary. I release you now. Thank you for responding to all the queries.

Hon. Senators, for any substantive questions, please send them to the Secretariat, Clerk's Office, and they will be posted to the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock Development for proper and quality responses.

Thank you very much, Hon. Cabinet Secretary, for your engagement. Clerk, next order?

(ii) Establishes the extent of suffering, loss and damage the cattle rustling/banditry has occasioned to the communities in all the affected Counties;

compensating all victims of cattle rustling/banditry and settle all internally displaced persons occasioned by the menace.

Sen Cheptumo on 28.02.2024

Sen. William Cheptumo is the Mover of this Motion.

(Motion deferred)

He is not there, so, the Motion is deferred. Next order.

My apologies, Madam Temporary Speaker. Maybe they used gospel songs and church keshas. However, I know a number of our mothers and sisters were wooed by Rhumba songs by Kanda Bongoman, Tabu Ley, Koffi Olomide and other

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. This is the report of the Parliament of Kenya delegation to the 13th plenary assembly of the Forum of Parliaments of the member states of the International Conference on the Great Lakes Region (FP-ICGLR) , held in Juba, South Sudan from 28th March to 1st April, 2023.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I beg to Move- THAT, the Senate notes Report of the Parliament of Kenya Delegation to the 13th Plenary Assembly of the Forum of Parliaments of the Member States of the International Conference on the Great Lakes Region (FP-ICGLR) , held in Juba, South Sudan, laid on the table of Senate on Thursday, 7th December, 2023.

The FP-ICGLR was established on 4th December, 2008 in Kigali Rwanda, following the signing of the Interparliamentary Agreement establishing it. The organs of the forum are as follows –

held physically after the outbreak of COVID-19. The Kenya delegation to the said plenary comprised of –

Kingi, EGH, MP, Speaker and the leader of the

delegation.

MP, Senate.

Senate.

MP, National Assembly.

MP, National Assembly.

Speakers, and the Plenary Assembly various documents and resolutions including –

ICGLR.

Committee reports and the ad hoc Committee on finance.

of the 26th Ordinary Session of the Executive Committee on

activity and financial report for the year 2022 of the general secretariat of FP-ICGLR.

founding documents of the FP-ICGLR.

committee.

The forum found that this was a crucial committee and there was the need for it to be a permanent committee.

For functional and smooth operation of the Forum during the 13th Ordinary Session of the Plenary Assembly of the Forum of Parliament of the International Conference on Great Lakes Region (FP-ICGLR), new bureaus of permanent committees to the plenary were introduced, with Hon. Maurice Kakai Bisau, MP, being elected as the President of the Committee on Peace and Security, and Hon. Mugambi Murwithania Rindikiri, MP, as the President of the Committee on Democracy and Good Governance from the Parliament of Kenya. It must be noted that I did a thorough campaign for those two.

The Executive Committee and the Conference of Speakers also deliberated on the recent evolution of security, political and humanitarian situation in the Great Lakes Region; key among these being the situation in the Central African Republic (CAR), the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC), the Republic of South Sudan and the Republic of Sudan.

It was also during that plenary meeting that the then President of the Forum, our Rt. Hon. Speaker, Amason Jeffah Kingi, handed over as the President of the Forum to the Speaker of the Transitional National Legislative Assembly of South Sudan, Rt. Hon. Jemma Nunu Kumba.

The delegation thanks the Office of the Speaker of the Senate and the Clerk of the Senate for their continued support towards facilitating the activities of the FP-ICGLR.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I beg to move and request Sen. Cherarkey to second. I thank you.

Proceed, Sen. Cherarkey.

out because we seem to be well versed and passionate with what is happening within our continent.

Being a leading democracy in Africa I can proudly say that we have been leading the negotiation very well. Even my colleague Sen. Cherarkey mentioned that we have our forces in the DRC. It is an issue of dialogue when we bring Rwanda, DRC and CAR to the table and make them converse. I always believe that the person who creates poison, has the cure for it.

Once we all make it a collective responsibility across the continent to ensure that these countries sit and discuss these issues putting the people first, I am sure we will achieve a lot.

Thank you.

Thank you, Sen. Hezena.

Next order.

My apologies, Madam Temporary Speaker. Maybe they used gospel songs and church keshas. However, I know a number of our mothers and sisters were wooed by Rhumba songs by Kanda Bongoman, Tabu Ley, Koffi Olomide and other

musicians. The DRC is known for music as opposed to minerals and this should not be the case.

On a lighter touch, I also know people there have bleached themselves. I was watching another Minister who 10 years ago was dark like me and yet they say the darker the berry, the sweeter the juice. However, he has transformed himself. While we focus on bringing peace to DRC, we hope that those minerals will be a blessing in that country.

On the CAR, I know there are a number of organizations that continue to fuel insecurity there. That region all the way from South Sudan is conflict ridden. It is like terrorism per se. It creates insecurity, affects investment and peace in our region.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I do not see why Africans should be fighting. We are one people. We should promote one love as Bob Marley sang. If we can promote one love through Sen. Hezena Lemaletian, then we will have peace because we have love. Even the Holy Bible talks about love.

We need to encourage one love across Africa to resolve these issues. People like Bob Marley sung those songs during that time because of the struggle for independence. He sung that even if you are Chinese or from Africa, you must have one love.

I would like Sen. Lemaletian to note this because she is the owner. She should be aware that Congo is one of the unique countries where women face immense threats. As per research, it is one of the worst countries for a woman to live. This has been referred to in the United Nations (UN) conversations and in the EU parliaments. In every hour, 48 women are raped in DRC. A number of women have undergone sexual violence.

I hope when Sen. Lemaletian goes to the Plenary, she should bring this to our attention. I am happy that the UN under the International Criminal Court (ICC) in 2008 ratified that rape can be classified as an international criminal offence. This is because many people were using rape as a weapon of war. Right now, rape is now classified as an international crime.

I saw the ICC prosecutor complaining because of the warrant of arrests issued for Hamas leaders and Israel’s President, Benjamin Netanyahu over the conflict in Gaza. He was told that ICC seems to only prosecute Africans by the Russian President, Vladimir Putin. We must have a conversation by the League of Nations and look into this.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I want Sen. Lemaletian to note the issue of rape is very serious in North Eastern Congo.

In conclusion, I thank the Kenyan delegation led by our own Speaker and Members of the National Assembly. They did a good job.

The second issue is on the humanitarian crisis. We have had discussions with the Mover that we need to work closely with the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR), so as to mitigate the effect of refugees. We have refugees from Uganda who are in Kakuma.

We should ensure that their basic rights to shelter, food and education are not violated. The Kenya Government and other governments that are part of this, should sit down and alleviate the humanitarian crisis. The only threat is the attack on the UN staff that have happened in other countries. I watched it in Cable News Network (CNN), where UN staff were attacked in the CAR. I have seen many cases. However, I am happy for House to note that in the payment by the Sudan Government to USA over the terror attacks that was paid through what we call a Terrorism Compensation Fund, one of the people paid was a UN staff, a USA citizen, who was killed and thus compensation done. I

hope that as she goes back, she will include the terrorism prevention and compensation fund.

Madam Temporary Speaker, we also want the protection of UN and the Red Cross staff because they provide humanitarian assistance in Eastern Congo, Kakuma, Uganda and all over. I propose that as the Senator goes back, we should have a list of all prescribed and militias that continue to destabilize the countries over insecurity issue.

The Senate and the Parliaments that have been mentioned are the source of democracy. I encourage that as you go back, discuss how we can make democracy strong. This is because most of this insecurity and conflict is about political power. If democracy is respected, then 90 per cent of conflict that we see in this region is very unfortunate.

I am happy that the President of the Republic of Kenya the other day appointed a former Cabinet Minister of Energy, Hon. Charles Keter, to be to be one of the great advisors on peace and security. We are proud of that. I know you know him very well.

I assure Sen. Lemaletian that her destiny is brighter, especially when because she has passed through the Senate. She is doing a good job. I have had a discussion with her. I am honoured to second by her.

When I met Hon. Charles Keter, he told me about what he is doing on bringing peace in this Republic. However, I request the UN to classify and tell us who are these terror organizations that are causing insecurity in our region and across the world like the way we have done with Al-Shabaab, Al-Qaeda and many others that continue to destabilize the security of this region.

With those very many remarks, I support this report. I wish the Senator well. She needs to know that she is the face of the young people. When young people do this, they give us a good name in leadership.

As young people, we must also stay under the guidance and wisdom of our elders. In my local language, they say, “An old man seated under a tree can see far than a young man who is on the top of the tree.” So, as young leaders, we must remain ruthlessly focused. However, we must also remain under the tutelage and guidance of our leaders and people who are senior than us. This way, they can provide any support.

As women leadership, you must also take charge and provide leadership the way Sen. Lemaletian has provided today. We want to see more of her. I know she was part of the people who used to lead Kenya Young Parliamentarians Association (KYPA). She did a good job until her tenure ended. We ask her to take other challenges that come her way so that many young girls and women who look up to you---

Madam Temporary Speaker, I know you are the Secretary General Emeritus of United Democratic Alliance (UDA) party. You ensured that you midwifed the nominations of UDA party, and also assisted us in forming the Government that we have today. We are proud to see what women can do. I encourage women wherever they are that they can deliver. I want to correct this misnomer. As men in leadership, we do not see leadership in terms of gender.

We see leadership as leadership regardless of gender because we have capacity and ability to go into the future. Maybe after I become President, then a woman can take over.

With those many remarks, I second. I thank you.

Thank you, Sen. Cherarkey for those kind words to Sen. Lemaletian and I.

I do not see any request for contribution to the debate, but I will call Sen. Lemaletian to reply.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I appreciate my colleague Sen. Cherarkey for seconding it very profoundly and passionately. I had no idea that he was well informed on these matters. I also inform him that there is another subsequent report that is coming on the issue of the rape of women. We have been doing a lot as a committee in terms of bringing these countries together.

There was a time I was privileged to be the President of the forum when I was the only Kenyan Delegate who made it to the forum. It was a very sombre mood because some Members of Parliament (MPs) from Rwanda and the DRC almost swept each other by fist because that was how intense the conflict in the region is.

On the issue of rape and displacement of women, many of them are actually affected deeply. They are traumatised and depressed. I profoundly thank the Republic of Uganda because they have one of the largest refugee camps in the world. It is in Southern Uganda and is called Nakivale Refugee Settlement. They have one of the best refugee policies in the world. They have a free policy where all refugees are welcomed to join the camp from whichever country. In the Great Lakes Region, they are accommodating refugees from about 12 countries.

In the same breath, I thank our beloved nation under the stewardship of the former President Uhuru Kenyatta. There were about 22 refugees in the camp. Upon visiting it, we were told that they had been brought back to the country and integrated back to the community. I truly challenge the African leaders because all these problems are rooted from the wars and displacement of people.

The level of trauma that the wars are causing in the African soils is very tremendous and regrettable. Many of these conflicts emanate from poor leadership, decisions and negligence of the roles and duties bestowed upon us by our people, citizens, the Constitution and God Almighty.

I was very heartbroken in Nakivale Refugee Settlement when I saw very young children about 4 years old running after us begging for education. All they want is education. We had visited the Regional Director of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) and one of the biggest problems they were facing was funding. The USA being one of the major funding partners was quite strained so to say. As African nations, especially those who have stability, we need to contribute more into these refugee camps.

I thank our nation because we also have a refugee camp in Dadaab. For those of us sitting in the comfort zones, you have no idea the magnitude of pain and disaster that war is causing across our continent.

With that, I also thank all my colleagues for participating very passionately. I do not know the criteria they used to choose the members who sit in this committee, but all of us are very strong Pan-Africanists. Whenever we are on that forum, Kenyans stand

out because we seem to be well versed and passionate with what is happening within our continent.

Being a leading democracy in Africa I can proudly say that we have been leading the negotiation very well. Even my colleague Sen. Cherarkey mentioned that we have our forces in the DRC. It is an issue of dialogue when we bring Rwanda, DRC and CAR to the table and make them converse. I always believe that the person who creates poison, has the cure for it.

Once we all make it a collective responsibility across the continent to ensure that these countries sit and discuss these issues putting the people first, I am sure we will achieve a lot.

Thank you.

Thank you, Sen. Hezena.

Next order.

Hon. Senators, there being no other business on the Order Paper, the Senate stands adjourned until later today Wednesday, 22nd May, 2024 at 2.30 p.m.

The Senate rose at 12.57 p.m.