THE PARLIAMENT OF KENYA

Clerk, do we have quorum?

Okay, quorum having been established, we shall proceed with the business of the House.

COMMUNICATION FROM THE CHAIR

VISITING DELEGATION FROM THE PARLIAMENT OF NAMIBIA

Hon. Senators, I would like to acknowledge the presence in the Speaker’s Gallery this afternoon of a visiting delegation from the Parliament of Namibia. The delegation comprises Members and parliamentary officers of the Standing Committee on Implementation and Co-ordination who are on a benchmarking visit with the counterpart Committee in the Senate.

Hon. Senators, I request each Member of the delegation to stand when called out so that you may be acknowledged in the Senate tradition.

Hon. Victoria M. Kauma, MP - Leader of the Delegation Hon. John Likando, MP - Member Hon. Peter Kazongominja, MP - Member Hon. Melanie Ndjago, MP - Member Hon. Hans Nambodi, MP - Member Hon. Alfeus K. Abraham, MP - Member Hon. Olivia T. Hanghuwo, MP - Member

March 22, 2023 SENATE DEBATES 1

Mr. Barney Karuuombe - Parliamentary Officer Ms. Moono Matengu - Parliamentary Officer Mr. Bernard Mwira - Parliamentary Officer On behalf of the Senate and on my own behalf, I extend a warm welcome and wish you a fruitful visit.

VISITING DELEGATION FROM THE COUNTY ASSEMBLY OF MAKUENI

Hon. Senators, I have a further Communication to make. I would like to acknowledge the presence in the Speaker's Gallery this afternoon of a visiting delegation from the County Assembly of Makueni. The delegation comprises staff of the County Assembly of Makueni who are in the Senate on a one-week training of Committee Clerks.

Hon. Senators, I request each Member of the delegation to stand when called out so that you may be acknowledged in the Senate tradition.

Mr. Thomas Ndambuki - Assistant Director, Legislative and Procedural Services Mr. Julius Nzau - Principal Clerk Assistant Mr. William Onyango - Principal Research Officer Mr. Peter Wanzia - Senior Clerk Assistant On behalf of the Senate and on my own behalf, I extend a warm welcome and wish you a fruitful visit.

I will allow the Majority Leader to welcome the delegation from Namibia. Thereafter, I will allow the Senator who is not in the House now, but when he resumes his seat will make brief remarks to welcome the delegation from Makueni.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I would like to join you together with the rest of my colleagues in welcoming this visiting delegation from the country of Namibia who are here on a study tour. I believe that in the course of their visit they shall be able to interact with Senators, our staffers, the leadership and get a full worth of their travel to us.

I celebrate this delegation because I have said several times that there is a good practice that is emerging, which we, as a parliament, need to emulate other countries from the African continent.

Almost every other week we get a visit delegation from an African country that is either on a study tour or something related in our Parliament. However, you will bear me witness that hardly do you find a request on your desk for approval of Members from the Kenyan Parliament that are visiting other African countries for study.

This obsession with other capitals of the world and leaving our own is the very reason why Africa continues to remain backward. We will be better as a continent if we can trade, learn from each other and sharpen each other skills. Therefore, on that account amongst many other reasons, I celebrate this visiting delegation from Namibia.

March 22, 2023 SENATE DEBATES 2

I look forward to an invitation from them to the leadership of this House on any particular matter that will be of interest. I believe Namibia is our peer as a republic. There are many things we can learn from this beautiful country.

An invitation to us, or even initiated from our side will be a welcome study opportunity for us as Members of the Senate to appreciate their democracy and the many things for which Namibia has excelled better than we, as a country. I believe that is one of the ways in which we can promote Pan-Africanism.

Namibia still holds a very special place to the people that I represent in this House. The last two Kenyan ambassadors to the country of Namibia have come from the county that I represent in this House. Amb. Benjamin Lang’at who is now the MP for Ainamoi served there for the last three years. The present ambassador, the immediate former Clerk of the National Assembly, Amb. Michael Sialai also hails from Kericho County.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is a very special delegation to us because our own sons have represented this country in their country and both of the two gentlemen are my friends. I have very fond memories of the kind of stories and lessons they share, especially on agriculture. They talk of how Namibia has excelled in agriculture despite it facing challenges that are almost similar to ours in terms of rain availability. Such matter is something worth emulating.

I welcome this delegation to the Senate. I hope to interact with them in the course of their stay and study here with us. I wish them well. May they enjoy to their fill.

I thank you.

Sen. Maanzo

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for giving me an opportunity to welcome the team from Makueni County Assembly to the Senate. I also welcome the team from Namibia.

A few years ago, I visited Namibia and we were treated very well. There is a very good example of water recycling. Therefore, we look forward to interact with them and learn more. There is a very good history between Namibia and Kenya in relation to the struggle for independence.

I met part of the team from Makueni County this morning when they attended committee proceedings in the Committee of Delegated Legislation. They are really learning. I believe that when they go back to their county, they will be able to copy and implement what they have seen the practice here in Senate from the different departments. We look forward to more counties coming here to learn so that the Senate become a very good template for county assemblies. I look forward to interacting with them farther and make them learn more so that they can make the County Assembly of Makueni better.

I thank you.

Next Order.

UNFAIR TERMS OF SERVICE AND DELAY IN INTERNSHIP POSTING FOR STAFF UNDER THE UHC PROGRAMME

March 22, 2023 SENATE DEBATES 3

Sen. Cherarkey: I thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The Petition reads as follows- Mr. Speaker, Sir, we, the duly registered Health Sector Unions, Associations and Societies with constitutional and legal mandate of championing the labour interest and professional welfare of all health workers employed by both levels of Government; that is the national and county governments; being citizens of the Republic of Kenya and authorized representatives/officials together with the UHC staff and interns who have sought our representations, draw the attention of the Senate to the following-

THAT, in April, 2020, a group of health workers were recruited under a one-year UHC internship contract to boost efforts on the achievement of Universal health as well as aid in the fight against COVID-19 pandemic.

They were given personal numbers, but released from service after one year of service leaving a shortage that remains uncovered to date in their previous work stations. They are unable to get any other employment in public service since they have personal numbers under the Ministry of Health.

THAT, in June, 2020, at the height of the COVID-19 pandemic, the Ministry of Health employed about 9,000 on a three-year contract of UHC and deployed them in different county governments across the country. Their contracts are coming to an end in May 2023.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the UHC staff have been diligently providing critical health services across the country since they were engaged. These contracts have attracted a consolidated salary that has seen them earn half of what their peers working in the same environment earn.

In February 2023, intergovernmental summit sitting in Naivasha resolved that the Ministry of Health extends the contracts of UHC staff for a further period of a three-year term under the same terms and conditions.

These staff are disturbed and demotivated by this development as they had valid expectations that they would have been absorbed on permanent and pensionable terms or their remuneration improved to be equal with their peers whom they work together under same conditions, but earning different.

THAT, Article 259 of the Constitution of Kenya provides that the Constitution must be interpreted in a manner that promotes its purpose, values and principles, advance the rule of law and human rights and fundamental freedoms in the Bill of Rights, permits the development of law and contributes to good governance.

THAT, under Article 41 of the Constitution of Kenya 2010, we are entitled to a constitutional privilege of fair labour practices, this being a human right.

The Article reads in Part 41 Labor Relations-

under apprenticeship of endured learnership, and therefore, entitled to enjoy the protection of Article 41 of the Constitution.

Both UHC staff and interns submit that they have suffered unfair remuneration as their remuneration has not followed the principle of equal pay for equal work.

Sen. Cherarkey:

I thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The Petition reads as follows- Mr. Speaker, Sir, we, the duly registered Health Sector Unions, Associations and Societies with constitutional and legal mandate of championing the labour interest and professional welfare of all health workers employed by both levels of Government; that is the national and county governments; being citizens of the Republic of Kenya and authorized representatives/officials together with the UHC staff and interns who have sought our representations, draw the attention of the Senate to the following-THAT, in April, 2020, a group of health workers were recruited under a one-year UHC internship contract to boost efforts on the achievement of Universal health as well as aid in the fight against COVID-19 pandemic.They were given personal numbers, but released from service after one year of service leaving a shortage that remains uncovered to date in their previous work stations. They are unable to get any other employment in public service since they have personal numbers under the Ministry of Health.THAT, in June, 2020, at the height of the COVID-19 pandemic, the Ministry of Health employed about 9,000 on a three-year contract of UHC and deployed them in different county governments across the country. Their contracts are coming to an end in May 2023.Mr. Speaker, Sir, the UHC staff have been diligently providing critical health services across the country since they were engaged. These contracts have attracted a consolidated salary that has seen them earn half of what their peers working in the same environment earn.In February 2023, intergovernmental summit sitting in Naivasha resolved that the Ministry of Health extends the contracts of UHC staff for a further period of a three-year term under the same terms and conditions.These staff are disturbed and demotivated by this development as they had valid expectations that they would have been absorbed on permanent and pensionable terms or their remuneration improved to be equal with their peers whom they work together under same conditions, but earning different.THAT, Article 259 of the Constitution of Kenya provides that the Constitution must be interpreted in a manner that promotes its purpose, values and principles, advance the rule of law and human rights and fundamental freedoms in the Bill of Rights, permits the development of law and contributes to good governance.THAT, under Article 41 of the Constitution of Kenya 2010, we are entitled to a constitutional privilege of fair labour practices, this being a human right.The Article reads in Part 41 Labor Relations-under apprenticeship of endured learnership, and therefore, entitled to enjoy the protection of Article 41 of the Constitution.Both UHC staff and interns submit that they have suffered unfair remuneration as their remuneration has not followed the principle of equal pay for equal work.

March 22, 2023 SENATE DEBATES 4

This act is not only unfair, but discriminatory in nature and goes against the doctrine of fair labor practice ordained in Article 41 of Constitution of Kenya, 2010 as well as the Employment Act No. 11 of 2007, Laws of Kenya on fair labour practices and discrimination.

THAT, both Article 27 of the Constitution and Section 5 of the Act prohibit discrimination on the basis of race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or any other opinion nationality, ethnicity or social origin, disability, pregnancy, marital status or HIV status.

Section 5(7) of the Act provides that when discrimination has been alleged by an employee, the burden of proof shifts to the employer who must show that it did not take place.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, according to the Constitution of Kenya, all human beings are born equal and are equal before the law.

Section 5 of the Employment Act provides that it is illegal to discriminate any facet of employment. It also provides that an employer shall promote equal opportunities in employment and shall ensure that policies and practices of the organization discourage discrimination.

The law disallows discrimination in the process of recruitment, training, promotion, terms and condition of employment, termination of employment and other matters related to employment.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Public Service Commission, Human Resource Policy and Procedures Manual for Public Service May 2016, recognizes the establishment, initiation and management of internship programmes in Kenya.

The same states, inter alia, that internship programmes shall be guided by the relevant provisions of the Constitution and relevant professional bodies and other policy guidelines, and shall not exceed one year.

The internship is a legal requirement and prerequisite for licensure and independent practice. The Ministry of Health is mandated to ensure that all officers are facilitated by posting to internship centres and paying their salary or stipend, whereas some cadres such as pharmaceutical technologists, nutritionists and dieticians are not paid that stipend.

These interns were supposed to be posted in December, 2022, but this has not happened to date. Of great concern is the fact that we have seen other interns being posted without any communication on when the remaining interns are to be posted.

While other interns are paid using job groups in the health sector, diploma clinical officers are only paid a meagre allowance that can cater for their basic needs during their internship. Delay in internship posting delays licensure and, therefore, creates anxiety, denies the graduates the opportunity to work and contribute to health service delivery as well as interruption of skills, mastery process, which impacts on the quality of health services delivery in the future.

The African Charter on Human and Peoples’ Rights to which Kenya became a state party on 23rd January, 1992, and in particular Article 3(2) provides that every person is entitled to equal protection of the law.

March 22, 2023 SENATE DEBATES 5

Article 5 provides that every individual shall have the right and respect of the dignity inherent in a human being. Article 9 provides that every individual shall have the right to receive information and to express and disseminate his opinions within the law.

THAT the Senate has the powers to find a solution to this discrimination and unfair labour practices against the Universal Health Coverage (UHC) staff and others who are supposed to be on internship programme.

THAT we have made every effort to have the matter addressed by the relevant bodies, including the Ministry of Health, but the response has been unsatisfactory. None of the issues raised in this Petition are pending before any court of law or any other legal body.

Wherefore, your humble Petitioners pray that the Senate-

and unfair remuneration of health workers, including the ones at UHC and others on internship.

(ii) Makes recommendation on such programmes, including adequacy of resources and better terms of engagement.

(iii) Recommends the appropriate measures for which such programmes, including internship and posting of health workers under UHC.

This Petition is counter-signed by the following practitioners among other officials-

– Secretary General, Kenya Medical Practitioners,

(ii) George Kibore – Secretary General, Kenya Union of Clinical Officers (KUCO) (iii) Pius Nyakundi – General Secretary, Kenya National Union of Medical Laboratory Officers. (iv) Elias Mutuma – General Secretary, Kenya National Union of Pharmaceutical Technologists and Officers.

– General Secretary, Kenya Union of Nutritionists and

(vi) Peter Ayieko – General Secretary, Kenya National Union of Biomedical Engineers of Kenya. (vii) Samuel Karanja –Secretary, Society of Radiography in Kenya (SORK). (viii) Moses Lore – Secretary General, Kenya Health Professional Society. (ix) Mohamed Duba – Secretary General, Association of Public Health Officers Kenya (APHOK). Mr. Speaker, Sir, with those remarks, I thank you for allowing me to read this Petition.

March 22, 2023 SENATE DEBATES 6

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I do not wish to contribute to this, but the next one.

Hon. Senators, this habit of walking in, keying in and going to the lounge clogs the queue. If you do not wish to contribute, please do not clog the dashboard, so that we have only those wishing to contribute on the dashboard.

Proceed, Sen. Cheruiyot.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the reason I am laughing is because someone told us yesterday that Sen. Osotsi is a leading Information Technology (IT) expert in the Azimio la Umoja-One Kenya Coalition side. If he is struggling with basic technology such as the gadgets in this House, how can he do the technology work that he is supposed to do in Azimio la Umoja-One Kenya Coalition Party? I now understand the source of the difficulty with technology.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is an important Petition that Sen. Cherarkey has brought to this House. It is not the first time we are hearing about the mistreatment of the UHC workers as they are commonly referred to.

If you check in all our counties, you will realize that during the COVID-19 pandemic, the national Government, through its intervention in healthcare management in all our 47 counties, did a universal recruitment of Kenyans who were sent to various county governments.

There were lofty promises. Many young people applied with lots of enthusiasm and believed that finally they had met their destiny to serve their country and be proud while at it. Unfortunately, that has not come to fruition because there seems to be a push and pull between the Council of Governors (CoG) and the national Government.

The CoG on one end, maintains that the wages they were recruited for are, firstly, unsustainable and, secondly, they cannot afford to add them to their books. During the push and pull, these honourable citizens and trained medics who dedicated a lot of their time and money studying on how to ply their trade and serve citizens of the country have continued to suffer.

It is my sincere hope that the Committee on Health will get to the bottom of this matter, so that they can advise the Committee on Finance and Budget because at the heart of this dispute are budgetary issues. Who will eventually carry the blame?

The CoG insists that the only way they can continue to maintain these staff is via conditional grants, yet the national Government says that health is a devolved function and it only hired to shore up numbers during the COVID-19 pandemic and that counties should take responsibility. The Committee on Health should give a lasting solution, so that the young men and women suffering in all our 47 counties can lay their struggles to rest and serve their country with pride.

March 22, 2023 SENATE DEBATES 7

Proceed, Sen. Sifuna.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I had the privilege of sitting in the sessions by the Committee on Health, chaired by Sen. Mandago yesterday when many of these health workers were presenting their issues to the Committee.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, there is simply no justification because our Constitution provides that---

Sen. Methu.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I hope that my time will be compensated. Nonetheless, the point that I was making is that, under our Constitution it is discriminatory and unfair labour practices for people performing the same work under the same conditions, in the same facilities to earn different salaries.

So, I am in support of this petition by the UHC workers that, in fact, we have no justification. I encourage the Senate Majority Leader that we cannot look anywhere else for the solution because the solution is in this Senate.

I am aware that in the next few days the Division of Revenue Bill is going to land here. We have made the argument that if we do not sort out the question of full financing of county functions, then, we are wasting time.

I am hoping that the Majority side and the Majority side when that Bill comes here, will put their money where their mouth is. That they will send the requisite resources to the counties so that we can fully finance and to ensure that we hire all the people who are medical workers, especially under the UHC.

We were told there are counties that have not hired a single doctor in the past five years. There are 4000 medical professionals who have already qualified, but are unable to find work in the public sector.

As a Senate, we will not run away from this issue by saying it is not clear whose duty it is. It is the responsibility of devolved units to finance health fully. We must find the money to support the hiring of these UHC workers and other health workers within the county setup.

I thank you.

Proceed, Sen. Veronica Maina. These are the Hon. Senators who key in and walk out. It shall be disorderly of Senators to do so. I hope as we are considering the amendments to the Standing Orders we put that as disorderly conduct.

Sen. Mandago, kindly proceed.

Sen. Mandago, kindly proceed.

March 22, 2023 SENATE DEBATES 8

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

What is your point of order, Sen. Kinyua?

Asante Bw. Spika. Sen. Mandago ndiye Mwenyekiti wa Kamati ya Afya. Kwa hiyo, ingekuwa vizuri awe wa mwisho kuongea baada ya sisi wengine kuchangia ili aweze kusikiliza maoni yetu kuhusu masuala haya. Naomba awe we mwisho na atupe uamuzi huo kulingana na vile anavyosema.

Naomba kwa heshima, Bw. Spika. The Speaker (Hon. Kingi) : Sen. Kinyua, it is not a requirement because the Chairperson is not required to make a response to all the contributions that Senators are making. As you are aware, at the end of it, the Petition will be committed. If the Chair has a contribution to this now, as a Senator, it is within his right to do so.

Secondly, Sen. Kinyua, once you raise on a point of order, the first thing that you need to do is to state the Standing Order that you are relying on.

We would not want a situation where Senators just stand on a point of order and basically quote nothing. It is good practice that you tell us exactly which particular Standing Order you are invoking. That is the practice as given in the Standing Orders.

So, Sen. Mandago, kindly, proceed. It is within your right to contribute.

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker, Sir. There are a number of other pertinent issues. We agree with this Petition, that other than the UHC staff, we also have internship programmes for the various cadres of health. Some cadres are given stipends during internship while there are others who do not. For those stipends that are being paid, it also varies for the same cadres in the different trainings.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the reason the Ministry of Health has continued to hire workers to perform devolved function is because the Ministry in itself is inherent in clawing back on the devolution functions. Counties cannot recruit because the money that is meant for devolved function is still sitting in Afya House.

I want to urge this House that during the Division of Revenue, our position as Senate is to ensure that counties be given a minimum of Kshs425 billion. On the idea of being told there are no funds, I want to tell this House that the balance from for Kshs 425 billion to Kshs385 billion is actually in Ministry of Health.

It is being held in the Ministry, continuing to perform functions that are meant to be done by county governments. So, it is upon this House to make sure that the devolved function of health is performed by counties.

March 22, 2023 SENATE DEBATES 9

Proceed, Sen. Wambua.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I stand in support of the Petition brought to the Floor of this House by Sen. Cherarkey. Even before I make my comment, this goes to Sen. Mandago. The Wiper Democratic Movement is ready to give him a direct ticket in 2027 because he is speaking the language of the people.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, this matter of UHC and the way we have treated our medical personnel in this country is actually a shame. It is a shame because we were told the other day we have more than 4,000 medical doctors who are tarmacking in the streets. It is a shame.

The solution as Sen. Sifuna has said is in this Senate. It is not even in the National Assembly. The solution to the problems that are being faced by the health sector in our counties is to ensure that funds follow functions at the counties.

Since the Division of Revenue Bill is coming very soon, I see pretence by many people. People pretending that they can allocate money to counties. The only House that can allocate money to counties is Parliament. The National Executive has no business in allocating money to counties.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, when that matter comes to the Floor of this House, I want to see the Majority side led by my friend, the Senator of Kericho, put the right foot forward. They should make sure the people of Kericho get proper medical care by ensuring that we send Kshs425 billion to the counties.

I support.

I support.

March 22, 2023 SENATE DEBATES 10

Asante, Bw. Spika. Ninaunga mkono dua ambayo imeletwa na Sen. Cheruiyot kwa sababu wauguzi wamekuwa na shida sana. Hili jambo lilianza kitambo nilipokuwa katita hiyo Kamati ya---

Bw. Spika, nimechanganywa kidogo na yule kiongozi wa Chama cha Wiper ambaye amesema---

Just proceed, Sen. Kinyua. Hon. Senators, may the Senator be heard in silence.

Bw. Spika, ni Sen. Cherarkey ndiye ananichanganya. Mimi ninaunga mkono dua hii kwamba maslahi ya wauguzi yanapaswa kuangaliwa.

Wakati wa homa kali ya COVID-19, wauguzi wengi waliajiriwa na kupewa mkataba. Baada ya COVID-19, hakuna jambo lolote ambalo wanaonekana kufanya kulingana na wale waliowaajiri. Wameleta malalamishi yao hapa ili tuyaangalie.

Langu ni kuomba Mwenyekiti wa Kamati ya Afya waangalie haya mambo kwa undani. Tusianze kuyapapasa haya mambo kwa sababu hili ni donda sugu. Ni masuala nyeti ambayo yanapaswa kuangaliwa kwa kina.

Wapo madaktari wengi katika kaunti zetu ambao hawana kazi. Wengine tayari wamepewa nambari ya kuajiriwa na Serikali kwa hiyo hawawezi kutafuta kazi mahali pengine. Ni vizuri Kamati husika ishughulikie mambo haya. Ni wengi ambao wanazidi kujiunga na hii wizara hii ilihali wale walioko, hawalipwi.

Bw. Spika, hawa wauguzi wanafanya kazi nyingi sana katika hospitali za kaunti lakini hawalipwi. Kwa hivyo, swala la ugavi wa fedha litakapoletwa katika hili Bunge la Seneti, tuwape mgao wa kutosha ili madaktari wetu waongezwe mshahara.

Madaktari wengi katika Kaunti ya Laikipia walikuwa wamefutwa kazi na yule Gavana wa zamani. Ninamshukuru Gavana wetu kwa sababu tulishirikiana na kuwarudisha kazini madaktari hao. Tutaendela kuangalia hilo jambo---

Just hold on, Sen. Kinyua. Sen. Orwoba, you cannot roam the length and width of this House for 10 minutes, as if you are inspecting a chicken banda.

I have watched you for the last five minutes pacing up and down. Now, I am going to read this Standing Order for your benefit. It says:

“Except when passing to and from his or her seat or when speaking, every Senator when in the Chamber shall be seated, and shall not at any time stand in any of the passages and gangways.” Kindly, proceed to take you seat. You are out of order.

Hon Kingi

Just hold on, Sen. Kinyua. Sen. Orwoba, you cannot roam the length and width of this House for 10 minutes, as if you are inspecting a chicken banda.

I have watched you for the last five minutes pacing up and down. Now, I am going to read this Standing Order for your benefit. It says:

March 22, 2023 SENATE DEBATES 11

Your time is up, Sen. Kinyua. Sen. Oketch Gicheru, please proceed.

Sen. Oketch Gicheru, it is not up to you when called upon to speak to pass it to any other Senator that you wish. That is a prerogative of the Chair. So, if you are not willing to speak at this juncture, please do not nominate somebody to speak on your behalf.

Sen. Kavindu Muthama, you may proceed.

Hon Kingi

Bw. Spika, ninashukuru kwa nafasi hii ili nichangie suala ambalo Sen. Cherarkey amelileta hapa Bungeni.

Madaktari wanafanya kazi ngumu sana. Usiku sisi tukiwa usingizini, wao wanahudumia wagonjwa hospitalini. Ni muhimu kuwa maslahi yao yangaliwe kwa kina.

Kwa hivyo, Wizara ya Afya haistahili kupinga hizi pesa ambazo madaktari wanastahili kupatiwa baada ya uamuzi wa Bunge. Ni lazima watoe hizo pesa ili ziende mashinani kuhudumia madaktari wetu.

Hakuna watu ambao hufanya kazi ngumu kama madaktari. Hata mtu akiwa katika hali mahututi, daktari atamhudumia mpaka atoke hospitalini akiwa mzima na katika hali ya kujisaidia.

Hatutaki madaktari wetu wagome kwa sababu ndio wapate pesa wanazostahili. Hata makaazi yao ni duni kabisa. Ninaomba serikali za kaunti zichunguze nyumba wanamoishi hao madaktari. Madaktari wanastahili kuwa na Amani. Wanastahili kuwa wenye furaha wanapotoka nyumbani kuelekea kazini ili waweze kuhudumia wagonjwa inavyostahili.

Ninaunga mkono Ardhilhali ya Sen. Cherarkey.

Sen. Kavindu Muthama

Sen. Methu, you have the Floor.

Hon Kingi

Sen. Methu, you have the Floor.

March 22, 2023 SENATE DEBATES 12

Sen. Methu

Sen. Olekina, please proceed.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, thank you for giving me this opportunity to make some brief comments on this. I rise to support the Petition on the health workers by Sen. Cherarkey.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is an opportunity. I just want to follow with what Sen. Methu has said. I beseech all the Members in this House that we now have the opportunity to ensure that our counties get adequate money. The Division of Revenue Act (DORA) is soon coming. We know what the National Assembly is doing when it comes to the issue of DORA. We are the ones who divide money between the two Arms of Government.

Many of these universal healthcare workers were being paid a stipend of about Kshs15,000. It is sad. The biggest problem with this issue is that they were already given an Integrated Payroll and Personnel Database (IPPD) number. Therefore, wherever they go, it appears as if they are employed by the Ministry. Therefore, they cannot be employed by anybody else. This is a matter which is live in our Committee on Health.

When I received the Petition from these workers, I submitted it to our committee and we have met them. We are now looking to meet the Salaries and Remuneration Commission (SRC) . We have already met with the officials from the Ministry of Health.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, thank you for giving me this opportunity to make some brief comments on this. I rise to support the Petition on the health workers by Sen. Cherarkey.

March 22, 2023 SENATE DEBATES 13

Your time is up, Sen. Olekina. Sen. Nyamu, please proceed.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the importance of the health sector and the health workers cannot be gainsaid. The other day, I was attending the opening of the first Intensive Care Unit (ICU) facility in Nairobi City County by the current County Government. One of the glaring issues that came from the public is the quality of healthcare that we have in our hospitals. The fact of the matter is that the health workers are not motivated. It was claimed that public health workers are not delivering, are idling in hospitals and their attitude is wrong.

On the flipside, I took time with the health workers. The public health workers claimed that their terms of service are not met. They work under deplorable environment, their wages are not as is supposed to be, they are not motivated and their working hours are long. Which happens to be true. It is very important that we look into the welfare of the health workers.

Sen. M. Kajwang’, once you bow and walk in, you go straight to your seat. I can see you are behaving like the guest of honour in some Harambee greeting everybody, especially the lady Senators.

Sen. Nyamu, please proceed.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the working environment of the health workers impact directly on the health services and on the common mwananchi. I support this Petition by Sen. Cherarkey so that the work conditions of our health workers are looked into.

Hon. Members, the 30 minutes meant for contribution to this Petition is now spent.

Hon. Members, the 30 minutes meant for contribution to this Petition is now spent.

March 22, 2023 SENATE DEBATES 14

Pursuant to Standing Order No.238 (1), the Petition should be committed to the relevant Standing Committee for its consideration. In this case, I direct that the Petition be committed to the Standing Committee on Labour and Social Welfare.

In terms of Standing Order No.238 (2), the Committee is required in not more than 60 calendar days from the time of reading the prayer, to respond to the Petitioner by way of a report addressed to the Petitioner and laid on the Table of the Senate.

(The Petition was committed to the Committee on Labour and Social Welfare) While the Standing Committee on Labour and Social Welfare gets down to prosecute this Petition, if need be, let it co-opt the Committee on Health so that we have an in depth look at the matters raised in this Petition.

Hon. Senators, there are two communications that I would like to make.

COMMUNICATIONS FROM THE CHAIR

VISITING DELEGATION OF REPRESENTATIVES FROM UNIONS, ASSOCIATIONS AND SOCIETIES IN THE HEALTH SECTOR

Hon. Senators, I would like to acknowledge the presence in the Speaker’s Gallery this afternoon a visiting delegation of Representatives from Unions, Associations and Societies in the Health Sector. They are in the Senate as guests of the Senator for Nandi County, Sen. Cherarkey, MP.

Hon. Senators, I request each Member of the delegation to stand when called out so that you may be acknowledged in the Senate tradition-

March 22, 2023 SENATE DEBATES 15

VISITING DELEGATION FROM RIARA GROUP OF SCHOOLS, NAIROBI COUNTY

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. On your own behalf, I would like to extend a warm welcome to colleagues from the Associations and Unions of the Health sector. It is good that they came in when Senators were expressing themselves in solidarity.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, finally, we shall find a solution to the Universal Health Coverage (UHC) in the health sector, internships and payments.

I see some of my colleagues have drawn their attention to my guests. However, Jesus Christ said that you cannot get to the father without him. I advise Sen. Sifuna and Sen. M. Kajwang’ that they shall not see that kingdom without going through me.

Therefore, they should ensure that I am comfortable, so that I can attend to their needs and ensure they access some of the numbers. Finally, I am also an alma mater of the Riara University, which is part of the Riara Group of Schools. I extend a warm welcome to them. I hope we can interact later.

Sen. Sifuna and Sen. M. Kajwang’ can see me in-camera.

Sen. Cherarkey

Proceed, Sen. Sifuna.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity to speak. I do not understand why Sen. Cherarkey wants to take possession of the leadership of the unions that are here. I assure him that we, as a political movement, have had very close working relationships with the unions from the Kenya Medical Practitioners and Dentists Union (KMPDU) to the nurses. We can only use such opportunities to deepen and widen the relationships that are already existing.

I assure the health workers that the Minority side is very clear. We will not send you away from this House. We shall find a solution in this House in the coming weeks; forget the 60 days that have been given to the Committee. We shall soon be debating the question of division of revenue. It is the responsibility of all of us in this House to find money for you. I assure Sen. Cherarkey that once I find money for them, I will not have to go through you to access the unions.

March 22, 2023 SENATE DEBATES 16

Hon. Senators, I have another Communication to make. Senate Minority Leader and Sen. Osotsi, kindly have a sit.

There is no Standing Order that tells you to freeze when the Chair is standing. You sit on the next available seat, even if it is not yours. You take it until the Chair is done, then you can resume yours.

Hon. Senators, I have another Communication to make. Senate Minority Leader and Sen. Osotsi, kindly have a sit.

VISITING DELEGATION OF MEMBERS AND STAFF FROM HOMABAY COUNTY ASSEMBLY

Sen. M. Kajwang’

Hon. M. Kajwang’ you are not an advocate of anybody or any Senator for that matter. However, I will allow you to get away with this today.

Sen. Ogola, you have two minutes.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am humbled by the opportunity that you have given me and the donation of the one minute by my able Sen. M. Kajwang’.

I join the great House, the Senate, in welcoming the Hon. Members from the Homa Bay County Assembly. HomaBay is a county of potential. You can see the great potential that we have in the composition of members who have come.

In the delegation are also ranking members. I have worked for the county government for the last 10 years as the County Executive Committee Member (CECM)

Sen. Ogola

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am humbled by the opportunity that you have given me and the donation of the one minute by my able Sen. M. Kajwang’.

In the delegation are also ranking members. I have worked for the county government for the last 10 years as the County Executive Committee Member (CECM)

March 22, 2023 SENATE DEBATES 18

Sen. Ogola

Next Order! The Senate Minority Leader (Sen. Madzayo) : On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

What is your point of order, Sen. Madzayo?

Sen. Madzayo) :

Resume your seats, hon. Senators. The Notice of Adjournment under Standing Order No. 37, having met the required number of Senators supporting the same, I would wish now to direct that the House shall stand adjourned at

What is your point of order, Sen. Madzayo?

NOTICE OF MOTION OF ADJOURNMENT UNDER STANDING ORDER NO. 37 POLICE BRUTALITY AND ARBITRARY ARRESTS DURING DEMONSTRATIONS HELD ON 20TH MARCH 2023

PAPERS LAID

REPORTS ON FINANCIAL STATEMENTS OF VARIOUS ENTITIES

Sen. Mariam Omar

Next Order!

March 22, 2023 SENATE DEBATES 19

Sen. Mariam Omar

Report of the Auditor-General on the financial statement of the Makueni County Youth, Men, Women, Persons with Disabilities and Table Banking Groups Empowerment Fund for the year ended 30th June, 2022;

Report of the Auditor-General on the financial statement of the Kitui County Assembly Service Board Employees’ Car and Mortgage Fund for the year ended 30th June 2022; and,

Report of the Auditor-General on the financial statement of the Bomet County Assembly Car Loan and Mortgage Scheme for the year ended 30th June, 2022.

Thank you Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Next Order!

On a point of order Mr. Speaker, Sir.

What is your point of order Sen. Wambua?

Hon. Senators, I think we are abusing this so-called point of order. Our Standing Orders give reference to when a Senator can stand on a point of order. If you read Standing Order No.98, it tells you when, as a Senator, you can stand on a point of order.

However, we have made that one so wide that any time a Senator wishes to say something, then we stand on a point of order, whereas our Standing Orders are very specific at what moment a Senator should stand on a point of order. So, let us stick to what is provided in our Standing Orders to avoid these other numerous Standing Orders that may not strictly be deemed to be points of order.

That does not mean what Sen. Wambua has raised is not important. However, it can be raised not through a point of order. It can be raised administratively. How I wish Sen. Wambua you raised this with either the Clerk or me in my office. Maybe today we would have discussed that exhaustively.

Next Order. Sen. (Dr.) Oburu, you may proceed. You have a Motion that you ought to give notice today, that is, on Arbitrary Arrests of Kenyan Fishermen by Ugandan Authorities.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I was not given---.

March 22, 2023 SENATE DEBATES 20

Next Order. Sen. (Dr.) Oburu, you may proceed. You have a Motion that you ought to give notice today, that is, on Arbitrary Arrests of Kenyan Fishermen by Ugandan Authorities.

Sen. (Dr.) Oburu

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I was not given---.

Were you given the Order Paper for the day? Kindly assist the hon. Senator with the Motion

NOTICES OF MOTIONS

ARBITRARY ARRESTS OF KENYAN FISHERMEN BY UGANDAN AUTHORITIES

Sen. (Dr.) Oburu

Proceed, Sen. Nyamu.

The Senate Minority Leader (Sen. Madzayo) : On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

March 22, 2023 SENATE DEBATES 21

Sen. (Dr.) Oburu

iii) Institute a protocol for sustainable development of the Lake Victoria Basin on the sharing of resources between partner states; and b) The Ministry of Interior and National Administration to deploy the Kenya Coast Guard in the territorial waters of Lake Victoria to enforce maritime security and safety. I thank you.

Proceed,

Sen. Nyamu. (Sen. Nyamu walked to the Dispatch Box) The Senate Minority Leader (Sen. Madzayo) :

Bw. Spika, kulingana na Kanuni zetu za Kudumu, je, ni vyema Seneta ambaye anaheshimiwa ndiposa akateuliwa na Chama cha United Democratic Alliance (UDA) , kwa sababu waliona kuwa anafaa nafasi hiyo, kusimama mbele yetu na kuongea bila kuvaa viatu ama soksi?

Sen. Kinyua, may the Senator be heard in silence? Can you conclude on your point of order, Sen. Madzayo?

The Senate Minority Leader (Sen. Madzayo) : Bw. Spika, je, ni vyema Sen. Nyamu kuanza kuongea mbele yetu bila kuvaa viatu? Je, anaruhusiwa kuongea akiwa ‘miguu chuma’ mbele ya Maseneta wanaume na wanawake?

Order, Senators! The business before us is very important and long. Let us stay focused on that business.

Sen. Madzayo) :

Back to the point of order raised by Sen. Madzayo. The only way to confirm that indeed Sen. Nyamu is barefooted is to allow her to approach the Chair. Sen. Nyamu, kindly approach the Chair.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, Sen. Madzayo normally wears glasses. Yeye ni ‘macho nne.’ I think sometimes he does not see well. Sen. Korir has been looking for you after seeing your photograph baada ya maandamano. Kindly see Sen. Korir at your free time.

Sen. Madzayo. The Senate Minority Leader (Sen. Madzayo)

Can we have order and make progress? Sen. Nyamu, focus on giving Notice of your Motion.

I am guided, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Sen. Madzayo) :

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.60 to give Notice of the following Motion-

THAT, AWARE THAT minimum wages in Kenya are specified as part of a national wage policy and guided by the Regulation of Wages and Conditions of Employment Act (CAP 229) aimed at reducing poverty as well as protecting and promoting the living standards of workers; CONCERNED THAT, despite the increase in Kenya’s minimum wage in May 2022 by 12% to help workers cope with the surge in consumer prices, the current inflation rates have had a knock-on effect on the cost of living and doing business in the country with the prices of goods, household energy bills, and transport remaining stubbornly high; NOW THEREFORE the Senate resolves that the Cabinet Secretary for Labour and Social Protection engages all stakeholders including the General Wages Advisory Board (GWAB) and the Agricultural Wages Advisory Board (AWAB) with a view of raising the minimum wage by at least 50% as from 1st May, 2023. I thank you.

Let us go to the next Order.

March 22, 2023 SENATE DEBATES 22

Back to the point of order raised by Sen. Madzayo. The only way to confirm that indeed Sen. Nyamu is barefooted is to allow her to approach the Chair. Sen. Nyamu, kindly approach the Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I rise pursuant to Standing Order No. 52 (1) , to make a Statement on an issue of general topical concern and national importance, namely: the destruction and loss of lives caused by Tropical Cyclone Freddy in Malawi.

I rise today to address the devastating impact of Cyclone Freddy on our brothers and sisters in the Southern Africa region. Cyclone Freddy is a catastrophic and a long- lasting cyclone that is refusing to dissipate and has torn through the southern part of Africa. It has ravaged Malawi, Mozambique, Zimbabwe, Madagascar and Mauritius.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, Cyclone Freddy is the world's longest-lasting tropical storm. It has twice hit the African coast after crossing the Indian Ocean. Cyclone Freddy, formed in the south-eastern Indian Ocean off the coast of northern Australia in early February.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, can I be heard in silence?

Sen. Kibwana and Sen. Madzayo, kindly proceed to your respective seats.

Sen. Cherarkey: Mr. Speaker, Sir, I do not know what the Senate Minority Leader is looking for from Sen. Korir.

Cyclone Freddy then crossed the entire ocean, passing Mauritius and the French island of La Réunion before landing in Madagascar on 21st February; and sweeping over the island before arriving in Mozambique on 24th February. It is sad that it has claimed over 200 lives and affected nearly 600,000 people. Our condolences, sympathies and empathies to the bereaved.

I also recognize the bravery and unwavering efforts of the first responders, emergency personnel, and volunteers who have been working round the clock to rescue and assist those affected by the cyclone in the region. They are owed an immense amount of gratitude for their selfless service and sacrifice.

These responders are now required more than ever as these natural disasters are increasing in intensity, frequency and impacting our world today. In this, we must also acknowledge the role climate change is having on these extreme weather events like Cyclone Freddy, even as the spouse of our beloved President, Dr. William Samoei Ruto takes charge.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is critical that we act to address the underlying causes of climate change and work towards a sustainable future for our planet. I am happy that we are taking a lead as a country, led by our President and the Cabinet, as the House the other day considered, nominees for appointment to the National Climate Change Council.

REVIEW OF THE MINIMUM WAGE NECESSITATED BY HIGH COST OF LIVING

As we increase the action in our nation, we want to encourage the global community to also work with the Government, Parliament and other stakeholders towards a better future and to protect our country and world.

As a nation, we stand in solidarity with our brothers and sisters in southern Africa – the countries of Malawi, Mozambique, Mauritius among others. We have an incredible opportunity and responsibility to offer our full support to help with the recovery and rebuilding process in those countries.

Providing assistance to one another during natural disasters is not only a moral responsibility, but also a practical requirement for building a more resilient and interconnected global community in Africa and across the world.

Thank you, Sen. Cherarkey. Due to time constraints, I will request that we hold back the comments, so that we also achieve the Order of the day, conduct some business and also reach some Motions.

Next Order.

March 22, 2023 SENATE DEBATES 23

STATEMENTS

Proceed, Sen. Cherarkey.

DESTRUCTION AND LOSS OF LIVES CAUSED BY TROPICAL CYCLONE FREDDY IN MALAWI

Sen. Cherarkey

Mr. Speaker, Sir, can I be heard in silence?

What is your point of order?

Sen. Cherarkey:

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I do not know what the Senate Minority Leader is looking for from Sen. Korir. Cyclone Freddy then crossed the entire ocean, passing Mauritius and the French island of La Réunion before landing in Madagascar on 21st February; and sweeping over the island before arriving in Mozambique on 24th February. It is sad that it has claimed over 200 lives and affected nearly 600,000 people. Our condolences, sympathies and empathies to the bereaved. I also recognize the bravery and unwavering efforts of the first responders, emergency personnel, and volunteers who have been working round the clock to rescue and assist those affected by the cyclone in the region. They are owed an immense amount of gratitude for their selfless service and sacrifice. These responders are now required more than ever as these natural disasters are increasing in intensity, frequency and impacting our world today. In this, we must also acknowledge the role climate change is having on these extreme weather events like Cyclone Freddy, even as the spouse of our beloved President, Dr. William Samoei Ruto takes charge. Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is critical that we act to address the underlying causes of climate change and work towards a sustainable future for our planet. I am happy that we are taking a lead as a country, led by our President and the Cabinet, as the House the other day considered, nominees for appointment to the National Climate Change Council.

March 22, 2023 SENATE DEBATES 24

Sen. Veronica Maina

Thank you, Sen. Cherarkey. Due to time constraints, I will request that we hold back the comments, so that we also achieve the Order of the day, conduct some business and also reach some Motions.

Next Order.

THE COUNTY BOUNDARIES BILL (SENATE BILLS NO. 3 OF 2023) THE PERSONS WITH DISABILITIES BILL (SENATE BILLS NO. 7 OF 2023) THE HERITAGE AND MUSEUMS BILL (SENATE BILLS NO. 8 OF 2023) THE KENYAN SIGN LANGUAGE BILL (SENATE BILLS NO. 9 OF 2023)

March 22, 2023 SENATE DEBATES 25

Sen. Veronica Maina

What is your point of order, Senate Majority Leader?

ADOPTION OF THE FIFTH REPORT OF THE PRC ON THE REVIEW OF STANDING ORDERS OF THE SENATE

Sen. Veronica Maina

What is your point of order?

POINT OF ORDER

THE PROPRIETY OF THE PRC REPORT ON REVIEW OF SENATE STANDING ORDERS

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I beg to get your attention. Kindly lend me your ear.

I rise under Standing Order No.223, which is Report on Select Committee. It reads as follows -

March 22, 2023 SENATE DEBATES 26

Madam Temporary Speaker, ---

Sen. Veronica Maina

Let us have order in the House. Sen. Olekina, I have given a very simple direction. The Report was formally tabled. I was in this House yesterday.

We request the use of Parliamentary language, so that if business is properly brought before the House, you could use different words to describe the same thing that you saying without using the sneaky language.

So, I invite Sen. Olekina, to withdraw the use of the word “sneak” then we proceed. I can make a finding on the Report.

Madam Temporary Speaker, thank you for giving a directive. I wish to state here that I said – and the HANSARD will bear me witness – that “when a report is sneaked in”.

The Senate Majority Leader is so emotional. All that I am saying is, let us follow the procedures of this House. We have Standing Orders. He cannot come in here and say that I am against the Report. I did not debate on the substantive matters of the Report. All I did was open page one, two and three. When I opened page three, it is quite evident; it is on my right. I could see clearly that it has only been---

Madam Temporary Speaker, I will not be forced to take in words that I did not emit. I would like to request that the HANSARD be provided so that if, indeed, I said that the Committee tabled the Report, I will be more than happy to withdraw that sentence.

Sen. Veronica Maina

What is your point of order, Senate Majority Leader?

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I am looking at the Report that is before us.

First of all, we have gone against very cardinal rules of procedure in this House. You have allowed Sen. Olekina to cast aspersions on distinguished Senators. When you allow him to rise on a point of order and say that this Committee “sneaked in a Report”, that first of all needs to be deleted from the HANSARD and the records of this House.

The Senate Minority Whip was seated here yesterday in the afternoon. There is a procedure through which you table reports. The Order was called and the Chairperson of that Committee, whether you were there or not, is none of our business.

What we are concerned about is the fact that you have allowed a Senator to cast aspersions on colleagues, saying that those colleagues sneaked business into this House. That cannot be left on the record of this House. We know for a fact that this Order was called and a Report was tabled as is the normal procedure.

Before we go on to the point of order that he has raised, I would wish that Sen. Olekina withdraws the offensive part of his comments. It is just for purposes of record

March 22, 2023 SENATE DEBATES 27

Madam Temporary Speaker, our Standing Orders provide that I substantiate. So, can the HANSARD be brought here, so that it can attest to what the Senate Majority Leader is alleging?

Sen. Veronica Maina

Sen. Olekina, I am presiding over the House. I have listened to you and heard your objection. Sen. Olekina, I have given you a direction.

Let us have order in the House. We intend to conduct some business today. Sen. Olekina, can you withdraw the use of the word “sneaky.” I have given a directive.

Resume your seat, Sen. Olekina. What is your point of order, Sen. Mungatana?

On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker. The business of this House must be conducted in order.

Standing Order No.99 forbids anticipation of debate. I have sat here, waiting for the Motion to be moved, so that we are seized of the matter. Even before the Senate Leader of Majority has moved something, we do not want filibustering.

Let us be seized of the matter and then if there are issues, Sen. Olekina will be heard, but not before. You cannot gag the Senate Majority Leader; let him be heard! Let him be heard.

I have given---

Sen. Veronica Maina

I have not given you yet. Resume your seat until I give you the permission to speak.

I have given you direction, Sen. Madzayo and I am certain you understand those directions. Resume your position. There are other hon. Members lined up.

Madam Temporary Speaker, thank you for giving a directive. I wish to state here that I said – and the HANSARD will bear me witness – that “when a report is sneaked in”.

March 22, 2023 SENATE DEBATES 28

Madam Temporary Speaker, I have requested for the HANSARD to be produced. Upon the HANSARD being produced, I will be more than happy to withdraw.

I was begging you to listen to me; to pay attention to me. With all due respect, I was asking you to pay attention to what I was saying. I never said that the Committee sneaked in. That is what the Senate Majority Leader alleged.

That is why, when something is in dispute---

Sen. Veronica Maina

Sen. Olekina, does that amount to a withdrawal that you did not say?

Madam Temporary Speaker, that does not amount to a withdrawal because I have requested you and the Standing Orders provide that you can request me to substantiate. The Standing Orders are very clear.

You guided this House and indicated clearly that we will be guided by the Standing Orders, nothing else but this these Standing Orders. What I have requested is that you produce the HANSARD. If indeed, what the Senate Majority Leader is alleging is true, then I will stand corrected.

Sen. Veronica Maina

Before we get any other points of order, I want to make a finding. There are many requests for points of order. I want to make a finding on that Report based on Standing Order No.223 (2) ---

What is you point of order, Sen. Madzayo? Senators, you must make it possible for the business of the House to be conducted. The style we are taking is not safe for the business of the House, and it is important that you also respect the Chair when you are given directions.

Sen Madzayo, please, proceed. The Senate Minority Leader (Sen. Madzayo) : Madam Temporary Speaker, with tremendous respect, the Minority side has a right to also request for points of order, but what we are witnessing now is not proper. Members in the Minority Side are not being accorded an opportunity to make points of order. You have only allowed one side---

Sen. Mungatana MGH

Sen. Madzayo, we were dealing with a Point of Order from Sen. Olekina.

The Senate Minority Leader (Sen. Madzayo) : Yes, Madam Temporary Speaker, the Senate Deputy Minority Leader, the Deputy Minority Whip, and other Senators from

Sen. Veronica Maina

I have given---

Sen. Veronica Maina

I have not given you yet. Resume your seat until I give you the permission to speak.

I have given you direction, Sen. Madzayo and I am certain you understand those directions. Resume your position. There are other hon. Members lined up.

March 22, 2023 SENATE DEBATES 29

Sen. Veronica Maina

On a point of Order, Madam Temporary Speaker.

What is your point of order, Sen. Wambua.

That will be the last point of order before I make a finding with respect to that Report.

Sen. Veronica Maina

Madam Temporary Speaker, I thought we were out of this, but clearly, we are not.

The point of order raised by Sen Olekina and the contribution by my good friend, the Senator for Tana River, on whether or not it is proper to anticipate debate, are two completely different things. We are asking the Chair to make a determination as to whether the Report that is just about to be tabled or moved for debate is properly before this House.

Madam Temporary Speaker, you said that we should be orderly; I am trying to be orderly. Standing Order No.223 is clear. Do you have a copy of it? Sen. Olekina has demonstrated that Standing Order No.223 (2) has been violated. That whereas the requirement is that five out of the nine Senators should approve a report before it is Tabled, in this case, only four have approved that report. The question that the Minority side is asking the Chair is to make a determination on whether that Report, before it is even moved, is properly before this House.

Lastly, this discussion on procedure and rules is critical. You need to give us direction from where you sit whether if a Member of this House tables a report unprocedurally, and the later on, it is discovered that the report was not properly tabled, this House has a duty of care to its own procedures to correct that mess or we live with it.

I thank you.

Sen Olekina

Sen. Wambua, I wish that you had paid close attention to the direction that I had given to the House just before I allowed you to rise on that point of order.

We were finishing discussion on the use of unparliamentarily language used; the use of the word ‘sneaky’. I said that I will make a finding on the Report, but you were so agitated, and therefore, even not following through what the Speaker is giving as directions to the House.

Sen. Veronica Maina

I will give an opportunity for that HANSARD to be produced by tomorrow, and you will be served with it. If you fail to substantiate using the HANSARD, you will be ruled to be out of order and sanctions will follow. Before we get any other points of order, I want to make a finding. There are many requests for points of order. I want to make a finding on that Report based on Standing Order No.223 (2) --- (Sen. Madzayo spoke off record) What is you point of order, Sen. Madzayo? Senators, you must make it possible for the business of the House to be conducted. The style we are taking is not safe for the business of the House, and it is important that you also respect the Chair when you are given directions. Sen Madzayo, please, proceed. The Senate Minority Leader (

Sen. Madzayo) :

That finding is wrong.

Sen. Veronica Maina

Sen. Olekina, you are going overboard. Do not do that. I have made a ruling.

I will give Sen. Cheptumo a chance to make his point of order. Let us have order in the House once again.

Sen. Olekina. The Senate Minority Leader (Sen. Madzayo) :

Madam Temporary Speaker, I plead with my colleagues. You have given directions on the issue of the language used by the Senator for Narok County. The next question for you to determine, which you have, is if this report is properly before the House.

Yes, Madam Temporary Speaker, the Senate Deputy Minority Leader, the Deputy Minority Whip, and other Senators from

March 22, 2023 SENATE DEBATES 30

Sen. Veronica Maina

Madam Temporary Speaker, you read the order which is clear.

Sen. Veronica Maina

Allow Sen. Cheptumo to finish his submission on the point of order.

I believe there is an intention by the Minority Side to derail the debate of this particular Motion.

Sen. Veronica Maina

What is your point of order, Sen. Wambua.

That will be the last point of order before I make a finding with respect to that Report.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I thought we were out of this, but clearly, we are not.

I thank you.

Sen. Veronica Maina

Sen. Wambua, I wish that you had paid close attention to the direction that I had given to the House just before I allowed you to rise on that point of order.

March 22, 2023 SENATE DEBATES 31

Sen. Veronica Maina

Sen. Sifuna, what is your point of order?

Madam Temporary Speaker, my point of order is pursuant to that Standing Order No.223 and what my learned senior, Sen. Cheptumo, has just said.

I do not know why some of our colleagues are imputing some negative notions on the Minority Side. We have demonstrated to this House that if indeed we did not want to take part in any business of the House, we know how to do that. However, we are here as the Minority side ready to contribute our thoughts to this particular matters that is on the Order Paper today.

In my view, if the Standing Orders talk about a majority of Members, it is a question of fact that is easy to establish from the document itself. If indeed you want to know whether majority of Members of a Committee attended a certain meeting, it is such a straightforward thing. We do not understand why we have to fight about it. Every person knows the membership of this Committee. It is not difficult to establish a majority which should be apparent from the document itself.

From the documents that we have seen, only four Members of that Committee have signed the document. How is four out of nine a majority? All we are saying---

Senate Majority Leader, I am on a point of order. I have not finished.

Sen. Veronica Maina

Let him finish his point of order.

Sen. Cheptumo

Madam Temporary Speaker, I assure you, on behalf of the Minority side, that nobody here is interested in playing any games. We are interested in protecting the integrity of this House including how business that comes to this Floor is processed. We do not have a problem if the Committee goes back to redo their report and sign with a majority that we can all see. It is a question that is very easily ascertainable.

I do not mean to impute any negativity on the part of the Chair, but, we do not understand how it is so difficult. How can something we are looking at from this position be different from something that you as the Chair are looking at from that position? We do not understand how it is possible.

Sen. Veronica Maina

Sen. Sifuna, wind up your point of order.

Sen. Cheptumo

Madam Temporary Speaker, you read the order which is clear.

Sen. Veronica Maina

Allow Sen. Cheptumo to finish his submission on the point of order.

Sen. Cheptumo

I believe there is an intention by the Minority Side to derail the debate of this particular Motion.

March 22, 2023 SENATE DEBATES 32

Sen. Veronica Maina

Madam Temporary Speaker, I had requested you earlier.

This is not the first time we are finding ourselves in such a situation. The Minority of this House are beginning to set a very bad precedent. Unfortunately, they are aided by your office.

Once the Speaker has made a determination on a matter, the practice of Parliament world over is that that matter is seized off and we move on to the next business. There is no way you can challenge the decision of the Chair. It is common sense.

Secondly, if you wanted to allow them a second bite at the cherry, I want Sen. Olekina, and Sen. Wambua to read the plain reading of the Standing Order they are quoting so that they understand the absurdity of the argument they are making.

Madam Temporary Speaker, read Standing Order No. 223. It speaks that: ‘The report of a Select Committee having been adopted by a majority of the Senators shall be signed by the Chairperson on behalf of the Committee.’

The debate they are having is ‘adoption.’ That once the matter has been adopted-- --

Madam Temporary Speaker, can I be heard? Protect me.

Sen. Cheptumo

Can you allow me--- Sen. Madzayo, resume your seat. Allow the Senate Majority Leader to complete his point of order.

Madam Temporary Speaker---

Sen. Veronica Maina

I am directing from the Chair that you allow the Senate Majority Leader to finish.

Madam Temporary Speaker, a plain reading, Standing Order No. 223 speaks to the signature of the Chairperson, the

Sen. Veronica Maina

Let him finish his point of order.

Sen. Veronica Maina

Sen. Sifuna, wind up your point of order.

March 22, 2023 SENATE DEBATES 33

The Senate Majority Leader, please, resume your seat. Minority side, let us have order. I have given a ruling on that issue.

Sen. Madzayo, this is the third time I have asked you to resume your seat. I will now take action against you. Resume your seat.

Minority and Majority sides, I have rendered ruling on this matter. We proceed with the next Order.

Senate Majority Leader, proceed with the Motion. I have given a direction. We are moving on with the Motion.

On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker.

Sen. Veronica Maina

It will pend the direction I have given, Sen. Olekina. It will come after what I have given as direction to proceed with the House.

Proceed, Senate Majority Leader.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I had requested you earlier.

This is not the first time we are finding ourselves in such a situation. The Minority of this House are beginning to set a very bad precedent. Unfortunately, they are aided by your office.

The debate they are having is ‘adoption.’ That once the matter has been adopted-- --

Madam Temporary Speaker, can I be heard? Protect me.

Sen. Veronica Maina

Madam Temporary Speaker, I beg to move that pursuant Standing Order No. 267 and 270, the Senate approves the Fifth Report of the Procedure and Rules Committee on periodic amendments to the Standing Orders of the Senate, laid on the Table of the Senate, on Tuesday, 21st March, 2023, and pursuant to the provisions of Article 124 (1) of the Constitution and Standing Orders 270 and 272-

On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker.

Sen. Veronica Maina

Sen. Sifuna, the point of order will come after he finishes moving the Motion.

Some hon. Senators: No!

Madam Temporary Speaker, a plain reading, Standing Order No. 223 speaks to the signature of the Chairperson, the

March 22, 2023 SENATE DEBATES 34

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I do not know why the Minority side feels fidgety about this particular issue. How this House resolves matters is---

Sen. Veronica Maina

Resume your seat. He is on his feet.

Sen. Wambua, do not push the Chair any further. Can you allow---

Madam Temporary Speaker, we shall not be intimidated.

Sen. Veronica Maina

The Senate Majority Leader, please, resume your seat. Minority side, let us have order. I have given a ruling on that issue.

Sen. Madzayo, this is the third time I have asked you to resume your seat. I will now take action against you. Resume your seat.

Minority and Majority sides, I have rendered ruling on this matter. We proceed with the next Order.

Senate Majority Leader, proceed with the Motion. I have given a direction. We are moving on with the Motion.

On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker.

Sen. Veronica Maina

It will pend the direction I have given, Sen. Olekina. It will come after what I have given as direction to proceed with the House.

Proceed, Senate Majority Leader.

ADOPTION OF THE FIFTH REPORT OF THE PRC ON THE REVIEW OF STANDING ORDERS OF THE SENATE

On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker.

Sen. Veronica Maina

Sen. Sifuna, the point of order will come after he finishes moving the Motion.

Some hon. Senators: No!

Sen. Veronica Maina

Madam Temporary Speaker, this is the point. Three weeks ago, we could not make progress in this House because of squabbles in leadership of the Minority side. We have---

It was caused by you!

March 22, 2023 SENATE DEBATES 36

Sen. Veronica Maina

Let us have order.

the business of the House by making allegations, noise and interrupting other speakers as they make their contributions.

Therefore, this is a very good proposal. I support it and wish to request Members of the Senate; those who believe in accountability and diligent oversight to support this Report so that we can make progress together.

I beg to move and request Sen. Wakili Sigei, a Member of this Committee, to second.

I thank you.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. As I rise to support this Motion, I must, first of all, speak to the issue that led to where we are today. In the history of this House, I am aware that in the 12th Parliament, the Standing Orders of this House were amended not once or twice but more than that. In December, 2018, the Standing Orders were amended in order to change the structure of the committees of this House. This House formerly went through the procedure that we are currently undertaking.

In July, 2020, an amendment to the Standing Orders was also conducted where virtual sittings were accommodated by the House in the course of the COVID-19 Pandemic.

In December, 2021, similar amendments were done to the Standing Orders of this House. Speaking to the Motion that has just been moved by Senate Majority Leader, it is informed by the need to have the House progress in transacting its business.

One of the reasons why this Motion has been moved is to ensure that there is some level of accountability in the Executive by ensuring the Cabinet Secretaries have an opportunity to appear before the Senate to answer questions from Members of this House and also from their representation responsibility conferred to them by the members of the public. They ask questions so that the Executive can answer not only to this House but also to the general public because this is a House that has got roles and responsibilities to deliver to the public.

The proposed amendments to the Standing Orders are on that particular line. I do not see the reason why my colleagues from the Minority Side are saying this is wrong. I moved the notice on the Floor of the House yesterday and nobody objected to it. It was passed and that is the basis upon which today the Motion has been properly moved by the Senate Majority Leader.

Allow me to speak to the issue of numbers. If they were to spare a moment to look at the document placed before them, annexure No. 3 has got the list of names of the Members of the Procedure and Rules Committee that sat and approved the Report. That number is not four as alleged; it is five. I want to ask my colleagues to spare some time and deal with the document that has been presented before them before they raise matters on procedure and numbers which are glaring.

Madam Temporary Speaker, this amendment makes specific proposals. The first one is about the timeliness within which communication from the Chair is to be made. I am aware that the Senate Majority Leader has alluded to that fact. Three weeks ago, we had that challenge in the House.

I will ignore the hecklers and proceed with my speech. For three good weeks, squabbles in the minority side---

Sen. Veronica Maina

Senate Majority Leader, use parliamentary language.

If you heckle, I will---

Sen. Veronica Maina

Minority side, let us have order once again. Sen. Wambua, resume your seat.

I will use parliamentary language on people who behave in a parliamentary way. If you heckle, I will refer to you as a heckler because that is what you are!

The Temporary Speaker (Sen. Veronica Maina)

On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker. Temporary Speaker

: The Motion has been moved and seconded. We are now---

On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker. Temporary Speaker

: What is your point of order? It should not be on that issue because I have ruled on it.

Madam Temporary Speaker, with the greatest respect, I stood up on a point of order when he made that comment. Your direction – the HANSARD will bear me witness – was that we wait for him to finish moving that Motion before we raise points of order. We have proceeded to do just that. Instead of you giving proper directions on him withdrawing that, you are telling us that the matter is spent. We would like to be given specific directions from your Chair on how exactly that matter is spent.

The HANSARD will bear me witness that you are the one who directed that we wait until he finishes moving the Motion, then raise points of order like Sen. Mwaruma did. So, how is it spent when you have not made a direction on him to withdraw calling us names?

Sen. Sifuna, while I listen to your point of order, I hesitate to imagine that you want me to revisit that. This is because I will seek---

Please, resume you seat Senator.

I will seek your description of what was happening a few minutes ago in this House. That is why I do not want to revisit it.

I have given instructions. The way we are running---

Hon. Senators, with profound respect to both sides of the House, I will request this House to avoid conducting its business in a manner that appears to be “heckling”. When a Senator is on their feet, I would like us to respect their time and space and allow them to speak. If you disagree, you will find a chance to tell us why you disagree.

For now, let us proceed with the debate. I will ask those who intend to contribute on the Motion to proceed. Going forward, we must do our business in a better manner.

March 22, 2023 SENATE DEBATES 37

We are creating a bad precedent on the running of business in this House. Profound respect to both sides, but what we have done today does not look good at all.

Hon. Senators, let us proceed with debate and give Kenyans what they are looking for by discussing substantive Motions.

In July, 2020, an amendment to the Standing Orders was also conducted where virtual sittings were accommodated by the House in the course of the COVID-19 Pandemic.

March 22, 2023 SENATE DEBATES 38

Sen. Wakili Sigei

Not on that issue.

Sen. Veronica Maina):

Madam Temporary Speaker, I rise to support the Motion. I served as the Member of Parliament (MP) for Baringo North during the Tenth Parliament. That was before promulgation of the Constitution of Kenya 2010. At that time, we had occasions to raise questions before Ministers.

In the amendments that have been proposed by the Committee, the Motion is trying to allow these elected and nominated Senators serving the interest of the people of Kenya, to face the men and women who have been given the chance by the Government to deal with their matters so that they are able to ask the questions on matters affecting their constituencies and counties.

I stand here as a person who has been able to witness the situation as it is now, and as it was before the 11th Parliament. When we have a CS appearing before this House, so that they can be able to answer questions; this House will have a direct conversation with the people that the Government has given a chance to serve them.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I have chaired the Committee on National Security, Defense and Foreign Relations. We have a problem in this country today. Issues raised by these Members cannot be adequately answered by response to Statements from CSs. There is not even a moment to seek for supplementary questions on those issues.

In my Committee, I now have answers for four Statements whose responses Members of this House are not even able to understand.

This is the moment. I thank the President of the Republic of Kenya, H.E. William Samoei Ruto, because he has confirmed to the nation that he wants a government that is accountable to the people of Kenya, through elected leaders. This is the only moment that these Members can indeed be able to raise issues directly to the Government.

It is indeed the moment. I am proud because I will have similar time like I had in the 10th Parliament, to seek ask questions from Cabinet Secretaries, directly from here.

Madam Temporary Speaker, because of time limitation, this is the direct direction. I therefore, support.

Hon. Senators, I now propose the question.

Sen. Mwaruma

Thank you, Senator. Hon. Senators, I have about 16 requests of Senators who want to contribute to this Motion. I humbly request that we confine ourselves to three minutes per person---

How many minutes? What is the proposal?

How many? Is it five? We also have proposals for three and ten minutes. Okay, let us do five minutes.

Proceed, Sen. Olekina.

Sen. Veronica Maina) :

Madam Temporary Speaker, I rise to oppose this Motion purely on constitutional and legal standings. We all know that the Constitution is superior to any other piece of legislation. Whether or not this Motion gets the nod from this House, I want to go on record as having opposed it…

What is your point of order?

Sen. Mwaruma

Madam Temporary Speaker, I rise on a point of order under Standing Order No.102 on Retraction and Apologies. It states as follows-

“A Senator who has used exceptionable words and declines to explain or retract the words or to offer apologies for the use of the words to the satisfaction of the Speaker, shall be deemed to be disorderly and shall be dealt with in accordance with the rules pertaining to disorderly conduct.” Madam Temporary Speaker, with all due respect, the Senate Majority Leader referred to hon. Senators as “hecklers”. For purposes of record, will I be in order to request that he withdraws the word “hecklers”? I can imagine my son or grandson reading the HANSARD and seeing the Senate Majority Leader referring to hon. Senators as “hecklers”. How will he take it?

Madam Temporary Speaker, I beg that you request the Senate Majority Leader to retract the word “hecklers” that he used to refer to hon. Senators.

Sen. Veronica Maina

Sen. Mwaruma, this is a spent issue. You should have raised it at the point when the Senate Majority Leader used it. We will proceed because we will not debate that issue.

March 22, 2023 SENATE DEBATES 39

Madam Temporary Speaker, let me just request and beseech the Chair that this House should only be guided by Standing Orders. Even limiting debate is expressly provided for in the Standing Orders. In the event that we want to limit the debate, we should do so before commencement of any debate.

The truth of the matter is that Standing Order No.1 provides for matters that are not expressly provided for in the Standing Orders. I really want to beseech us to respect our own rules.

I oppose this Motion, first, because Standing Orders are permanent rules and procedures of this House. We have looked at the Constitution. Article 153 is very clear on this matter of inviting CSs to come to Parliament. It is expressly provided for in this Constitution. I will read it. Article 153 (3) states that -

“A Cabinet Secretary shall attend before a committee of the National Assembly, or the Senate, when required by the committee, and answer any question concerning a matter for which the Cabinet Secretary is responsible.” Article 153 (4) (a) says - “4) Cabinet Secretaries shall -

Sen. Veronica Maina) :

I beseech my colleagues that we do not violate the Constitution. If the framers of the Constitution saw it fit not to allow any stranger to sit in this House, who are we then to change the Constitution through the back door? If we so wish to change the Constitution, why not go and have a referendum?

I beseech the Chair. It is not about time. I know very well that the Majority side is gung-ho on this matter. They want to bring in whatever way they want; we move it without any questions, comma or full stop. Let me be on record by saying that if you push this matter without considering what the Constitution says, then we shall defend this Constitution.

(Applause)

Proceed, Sen. Mandago. Is he there? He is not there.

Next is Sen. Cherarkey.

Sen. Veronica Maina) :

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker.

What is your point of order? It should not be on that issue because I have ruled on it.

Sen. Veronica Maina

Sen. Sifuna, while I listen to your point of order, I hesitate to imagine that you want me to revisit that. This is because I will seek---

Please, resume you seat Senator.

I will seek your description of what was happening a few minutes ago in this House. That is why I do not want to revisit it.

I have given instructions. The way we are running---

For now, let us proceed with the debate. I will ask those who intend to contribute on the Motion to proceed. Going forward, we must do our business in a better manner.

March 22, 2023 SENATE DEBATES 40

Sen. Veronica Maina

We are creating a bad precedent on the running of business in this House. Profound respect to both sides, but what we have done today does not look good at all.

Hon. Senators, let us proceed with debate and give Kenyans what they are looking for by discussing substantive Motions.

hon. Senator

Sen. Olekina should be called out of order. He does not need to shout. He should key in.

Sen. Veronica Maina

Sen. Olekina, the procedure for seeking a point of order is well delineated under the rules. You have not pressed on your system.

Sen. Cheptumo

I have pressed. Look at it.

March 22, 2023 SENATE DEBATES 41

Sen. Veronica Maina

Thank you, Senator. Hon. Senators, I have about 16 requests of Senators who want to contribute to this Motion. I humbly request that we confine ourselves to three minutes per person---

How many minutes? What is the proposal?

How many? Is it five? We also have proposals for three and ten minutes. Okay, let us do five minutes.

Proceed, Sen. Olekina.

Sen. Veronica Maina

Allow him to finish.

It is not to finish. My microphone was off.

Sen. Veronica Maina

What is your point of order?

Madam Temporary Speaker, the Senate Majority Leader is becoming cantankerous and completely out of order.

March 22, 2023 SENATE DEBATES 42

(Applause)

Sen. Veronica Maina

Proceed, Sen. Mandago. Is he there? He is not there.

Next is Sen. Cherarkey.

Sen. Cherarkey

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker.

Sen. Veronica Maina

Take your seat, Sen. Mandago.

Sen. Cherarkey

Madam Temporary Speaker, I rise to support this Motion on amendment to the Standing Orders. As provided for by the Constitution, the President did indicate that he wants to work with Parliament. The former President used to see Parliament as enemies, adversaries and nuisance. That is why he used to arrest a number of us.

Madam Temporary Speaker, Article 153 states that a Cabinet Secretary shall attend before a Committee. People should read this Constitution. If you want to know pickpockets in town, see how they read newspapers. They read it upside down.

March 22, 2023 SENATE DEBATES 43

Sen. Cherarkey

Sen. Olekina, you are not the Speaker for today. You are not the one giving the verdict in the House. Sen. Cherarkey, verify and confirm what you meant by newspaper being read upside down.

Madam Temporary Speaker, some of us went to the great school of sons of African gentlemen, Kapsabet Boys. This school has produced two Presidents; the late Daniel Moi and H.E. William Ruto. Now, there is something called euphemism in literature.

Sen. Cherarkey

Sen. Cherarkey, repeat yourself for the benefit of Members who cannot understand that heavy language.

Sen. Veronica Maina

Madam Temporary Speaker, in literature, there is symbolic language. I said “reading newspapers like”. I used it figuratively. I did not mean that Sen. Olekina reads the newspaper upside down.

Madam Temporary Speaker, can I proceed to prosecute my three issues?

The explanation is acceptable.

Sen. Veronica Maina

It is not showing here.

Proceed. I have seen it. It has now come. Let him raise his point of order. Take a minute, Sen. Olekina.

I do not want you to speak to one another. Speak through the Chair.

Madam Temporary Speaker, is the distinguished Senator from Nandi County in order to state that a distinguished Senator, who represents the people of Narok County reads the newspaper upside down?

I have just read the Constitution. We may be over-zealous in the points that we want to put across. I beseech that you find him completely out of order for his cantankerous behaviour in insulting me. He should not.

I have a lot of respect for Sen. Cherarkey. The HANSARD will bear me witness and I will be happy to produce it. These two were the ones who opposed that provision of attempting to bring in CSs here, quoting the same Article in the Constitution.

Sen. Veronica Maina

Hon. Senators, maintain your cool. Let him finish in half a minute.

Sen. Olekina, finish your point of order.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I wish to end by saying---

March 22, 2023 SENATE DEBATES 44

What is your point of order?

Madam Temporary Speaker, the Senate Majority Leader is becoming cantankerous and completely out of order.

Sen. Veronica Maina

Hon. Members, allow Sen. Olekina to finish his point of order.

Madam Temporary Speaker, it is really disturbing to see the Senate Majority Leader acting like a heckler. It is wrong. He is the Majority Leader and this House belongs to him. He should be leading by example. We have guests in this House who are listening and watching. They are learning and seeing the way he is behaving.

Madam Temporary Speaker, if you allow me to finish---

Sen. Veronica Maina

Sen. Olekina, resume your seat now.

Madam Temporary Speaker, how do I resume my seat without prosecuting my point of order?

Sen. Veronica Maina

I gave you a chance and you should have used it immediately.

Sen. Cherarkey, can you confirm by what you meant by reading the newspaper upside down? Clarify that.

Sen. Cherarkey

Madam Temporary Speaker, I hope my time has been frozen.

Sen. Veronica Maina

Sen. Olekina, you are not the Speaker for today. You are not the one giving the verdict in the House. Sen. Cherarkey, verify and confirm what you meant by newspaper being read upside down.

Sen. Cherarkey

I do not want to be informed.

Sen. Veronica Maina

Is it a point of order or point of information?

Resume your seats.

Sen. Cherarkey

Madam Temporary Speaker, I need your protection.

The Temporary Speaker (Sen. Veronica Maina)

Can the Senators who are standing resume their seats except Sen. Osotsi?

Sen. Cherarkey, be careful now. Resume your seat.

March 22, 2023 SENATE DEBATES 45

Sen. Cherarkey

The Minority Side have the habit of walking out but there is no problem. I sympathize and empathize with them. If their leadership of whips are hecklers, then it is very unfortunate.

Standing Order No.34 talks about 9.30 – 1.00 p.m. It is unfortunate that when you pose a question, a number of my colleagues who are Chairpersons have to go literally looking for a CS. This is an opportunity to have a CS on the dock and ask him about the Nairobi Expressway. Let us have the CS for Roads and Transportation here.

Let us ask the CS for the Ministry of East African Community, Arid and Semi- Arid Lands and Regional Development about drought. Let us have CSs here so that we can hold them – not by the balls – but by accountability.

Madam Temporary Speaker, this is a House of representation and oversight. I do not know why Senators, especially those from the Minority Side, have been going to the public demanding questions in demonstrations. We want to make a structured engagement where we will have proper engagement with the CSs.

Therefore, Standing Order No.34 should be amended within five minutes. We should not even be wasting time. The President has given us the greenlight.

Madam Temporary Speaker, can you chase out---

Sen. Veronica Maina

Hon. Senators, I will give each of you a chance to respond to whatever contribution Sen. Cherarkey is giving. Be patient for him to finish.

Sen. Cherarkey, wind up.

Sen. Cherarkey

Madam Temporary Speaker, the Azimio One Kenya Alliance have said they will be demonstrating on Mondays and Thursdays. They should go and demonstrate there and not inside the House.

I am not the Officer Commanding Station (OCS) that you were chasing. I am beyond that. You cannot chase me. He ran away.

Madam Temporary Speaker, protect me.

Sen. Veronica Maina

Hon. Senators!

March 22, 2023 SENATE DEBATES 46

Sen. Cherarkey

How can someone dare me when they left a T-shirt with the police? I have never run away from the police. I have slept on the floor of a police cell for six days.

Madam Temporary Speaker, let me finish because these are serious issues. Mama mbogas and Wanjikus want to see CSs here. Please, give me one minute because of that distraction.

Sen. Veronica Maina

Time is up. Resume your seat, Sen. Cherarkey.

Sen. Osotsi, you may proceed. Hon. Senators, when you get an opportunity, use the five minutes in a wise manner.

Madam Temporary Speaker, from the onset, I oppose this Motion from constitutionality.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I require your protection.

Sen. Veronica Maina

Hon. Senators, on the Majority Side, allow Sen. Osotsi to contribute.

Speaker shall put the question, subject to Standing Order 66 (3) (Manner of debating Motions).

Sen. Veronica Maina

I will render a judgement on it. The Speaker is in charge; let me hear the point of order. I will respond to it.

Resume your seat Sen. M. Kajwang’.

Sen. M. Kajwang’, resume your seat.

Sen. Chimera, finish your point of order.

Sen. Veronica Maina

Madam Temporary Speaker, having read Standing Order No. 109, I humbly wish to move that the Mover of this Motion be called to reply.

March 22, 2023 SENATE DEBATES 47

I do not want to be informed.

Sen. Veronica Maina

Is it a point of order or point of information?

Resume your seats.

Senators, resume your Seats. I will give direction on how we will proceed.

I have given direction. So, can you resume your seats? Senators, let us have order now. This is a House of rules and procedures. I had given direction that we will resume this debate tomorrow.

An hon. Senator: Right now!

Sen. Veronica Maina

Sen. Cherarkey, resume you seat.

On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker.

Sen. Veronica Maina

Resume your Seats; Sen.

Hon. Senators, earlier, the Speaker directed that the Senate Minority Leader moves a Motion under Standing Order No.37 at 5:30 p.m.

I have been informed that it is now 5:32 p.m. We will resume and finalize this other debate tomorrow. So, I call upon the Senate Minority Leader to move the Motion.

Sen. Orwoba, you will have your four minutes tomorrow.

Minority side, I call you to order. Hon. Senators, something is evidently not correct today in the way we are conducting our business. That decision does not favour a certain side. It is a neutral decision by the Speaker.

I call upon the Senate Minority Leader. I now bar any further comment on the earlier debate in this House. We proceed with what I have placed before the House.

Sen. Veronica Maina

Sen. Osotsi, your time is up, resume your seat.

Sen. Osotsi, did you notice that the Speaker asked Sen. Cherarkey to resume his seat when his time was up? Resume your seat.

Sen. Osotsi, for clarification, I rendered a decision on the admissibility of the report. the report was admitted and we proceeded with the Motion which is being debated

March 22, 2023 SENATE DEBATES 48

Sen. Veronica Maina

now. All Senators should confine their contribution to the Motion that is before the House.

Proceed, Sen. Orwoba.

Sen. Orwoba

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker, I ask that you protect me so that I can deliver my contribution.

I support this Motion and not because of anything but because we are an oversight House. This is the ‘upper’ House. We play the oversight role. If you look at the mandate of the Senate, the oversight that we are playing is to ensure that the Executive delivers on its duties. Why would any sane Senator on the Floor of the House actually oppose this Motion?

I presented about three Statements four months ago and they were sent to different Committees. In those Committees as they tried to deal with those Statements, part of it is summoning Cabinet Secretaries (CSs) . It is becoming very difficult for CSs to appear before different Committees because, today, they are being summoned by one committee; the next day, they have to go to another committee.

Madam Temporary Speaker, for purposes of logistics, when we have plenary sessions on Wednesdays and have different CSs coming to answer to all matters, I do not see why our Senators from Opposition would oppose that just for the sake of playing opposition. This is a Motion that is going to help and aide us in playing oversight. I do not see the issue.

Let me speak on two things in my four minutes, we had the issue of the sex for work in Kericho. Our Committee was sent to Kericho to go and carry out investigations and talk to stakeholders. The processes that we have currently when summoning a CS are tedious. I see this as an opportunity for us to deliver many matters in terms of oversight.

By now, we would have summoned the CS in the Ministry of Labour and Social Protection to find out what they have done in terms of that issue of Kericho.

Sen. Veronica Maina

Sen. Chimera, do you have a point of order? What is your point of order? Resume your seat, Sen. Orwoba.

Sen. Chimera

Asante sana Bi. Spika wa Muda. Hii Nyumba imerudi kuwa kama ya watoto wadogo wanaopiga kilele. Pande zote mbili ni kama hawakuheshimu. Sen. Cherarkey, upande huu na upande ule mwingine, ni Seneta wa Nairobi. Tafadhali tupa hawa watu nje ili wajue hicho kiti umekikalia vizuri. Kama hautafanya hivyo, hawa watu watakusumbua mpaka kesho.

March 22, 2023 SENATE DEBATES 49

Sen. Chimera

Speaker shall put the question, subject to Standing Order 66 (3) (Manner of debating Motions).

Sen. Veronica Maina

Kitendo hicho cha kupiga risasi ni kinyume cha sheria. Askari hawaruhusiwi kupiga watu risasi. Askari hawaruhusiwi kurusha hata hiyo teargas ambayo inarushwa wakati kuna fujo. Lakini haya yalikuwa maandamano ambayo yalikuwa yanafanywa katika nchi nzima kulingana na ile barua pepe tuliyopeleka kwa mkuu hapa Nairobi ili watu waweze kufanya maandamano ya amani.

Lakini polisi wenyewe walikuwa wa kwanza kutupa teargas mimi nikiwa hapo. Tukawafuata na tukawaambia hata wakaomba msamaha-- Alimwambia yule polisi asitupe teargas kwa watu ambao hawana silaha, hawapigi kelele wala hawafanyi fujo, na tukaingia.

Bi. Spika wa Muda, tuliweza kuingia pale KICC ambapo kuna ofisi za Maseneta. Tuliweza kusimama pale na kuongea kidogo na watu waliokuwa pale. Hakukuwa na fujo hata kidogo. Kitu cha kushangaza ni kwamba ndani ya KICC Wabunge hawatembei wakiwa wamebeba bunduki.

Mimi mwenyewe nilikuwa mmoja wa wale watu, na nilikuwa sina silaha wala sijui kutumia hata hiyo silaha wala sina haja nayo. Tulipigwa teargas, watu waka---

Sen. Chimera, finish your point of order.

Sen. Chimera

Madam Temporary Speaker, having read Standing Order No. 109, I humbly wish to move that the Mover of this Motion be called to reply.

Sen. Veronica Maina

Shame!

Sen. Kathuri

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. Sen. Chimera is in order. Any decision is made by this House,

If Sen. Chimera has put that Standing Order, what we should do, is just to get a Seconder and put the matter to vote on whether we agree the Mover to reply. That is the procedure.

With a lot of humility, I have been in Parliament for 11 years. That has always been the procedure. Sen. M. Kajwang’, agrees that Sen. Chimera is quite in order.

March 22, 2023 SENATE DEBATES 50

Sen. Veronica Maina

Finish. You have one minute. The Minority Leader (Sen. Madzayo) : Nikimalizia, hao ni viongozi wetu ndani ya chama chetu. Kwa hivyo, tunahitaji heshima. Kitu chochote kikitendeka kwa Baba Raila Odinga, tutajua ni polisi ama ni wale wengine ambao wameweza kujipanga na kuweza kufanya vile wanavyotaka kufanya. Nataka kutoa tahadhari ya kwamba jambo lolote lisitendeke juu ya Baba Raila Amolo Odinga.

Namuita ndugu yangu Sen. Sifuna aje aweze kusecond.

Sen. Veronica Maina

Madam Temporary Speaker, we on the Minority side have come to accept that in this House we are going to have to contend for the next four years with the prevalence of acute short man syndrome on the majority side. This is because, there are two Senators who are now becoming---

Sen. Cherarkey

Sen. Sifuna, did you stand to second the Motion?

The Temporary Speaker (Sen. Veronica Maina)

Yes. I stand to second the Motion.

Sen. Veronica Maina

Can you stick to the content of the Motion.

March 22, 2023 SENATE DEBATES 51

MOTION FOR ADJOURNMENT UNDER STANDING ORDER NO. 37 POLICE BRUTALITY AND ARBITRARY ARRESTS DURING DEMONSTRATIONS HELD ON 20TH MARCH 2023

Sen. Veronica Maina

Do not describe physical characteristics.

Sen. Sifuna spoke off record) The Senate Minority Leader (Sen. Madzayo) :

No, I have not described anyone, Madam Temporary Speaker. I want to request you, please do not engage in our brawls. Please. Just sit and be a neutral referee. I have not named anyone.

Ahsante, Bi. Spika wa Muda. Mimi nilikuwa hapa tokea mwaka 2013. Damu ya Maseneta walioko hapa, wengi wao ni vijana. Kwa hivyo, mimi ninaelewa wakiwa na harakati hizi ya kushindana. Ndugu zangu shupavu, Sen. Chimera, Maseneta wa Nandi, Kericho na wengine ni washupavu na damu zao ni moto. (Laughter) The Senate Minority Leader (

Sen. Madzayo) :

I have just said that we have come to accept that in this House, we will have to be content with a serious acute short man syndrome by some people on the Majority side. This is why every time we stand here, we are hardly given an opportunity to express our opinions in the manner we are supposed to.

We have raised objections and we shall not tire to put it on record. In fact, our interest here is to debate soberly. However, if the environment does not allow us to debate soberly, we will act the way these short men want us to act. We will be short like them.

Bi. Spika wa Muda, cha kwanza ninaomba--- (Sen. Chute spoke-off record)

Sen. Veronica Maina

What is your point of order, Sen. Chute? The Senate Minority Leader (

Sen. Madzayo) :

Please pause my time because I am not done. Leo niko na nyinyi.

Sen. Veronica Maina

Madam Temporary Speaker, you have given guidance to this House regarding the debate. Is it in order for the Senator of Nairobi to keep talking about the short man syndrome by Members of the majority side? He should utilize his time to debate. We are patient but we do not take it kindly when Senators seem to threaten the Chair all the time. Can we have good debate in this House?

Sen. Sifuna, you have been given time to prosecute--- I am addressing the Chair. The Senator for Nairobi City County should simply second the Motion and sit down, instead of saying that we have a short man syndrome. You should not threaten us. For the first time, I have spoken about threatening people, and you know that I rarely speak about issues of discipline.

March 22, 2023 SENATE DEBATES 52

Sen. Chute

Sen. Veronica Maina

Thank you, Sen. Chute. (Loud consultations) Hon. Senators, you have heard the invitation to the Chair. Restrain yourselves. Otherwise, I might be tempted to go that direction. The Senate Minority Leader (

Sen. Madzayo) :

processions. Indeed, the coalition known as Azimio la Umoja did notify the Nairobi City County Commander via a written letter that we would be undertaking maandamano.

It was shocking to hear the police in Nairobi declaring that the planned procession by Azimio la Umoja-One Kenya Coalition Party was unlawful. Since we understand that under the Constitution, we do not need anybody’s permission, we decided to proceed and that is exactly what we did.

I was in the company of my colleagues here when we set out from these premises to Kenyatta International Convention Centre (KICC) which, by the way, is an extension of Parliament because that is where our offices as Senators in this Republic are.

We were surprised to meet the Officer Commanding Station (OCS) at KICC. Without any reason or excuse, they hurled teargas at MPs. You could see me following him to ask if there was a grave mistake we had committed to warrant being teargassed. We have decided that there will be individual responsibility on police officers.

Not every police officer misbehaved on that day. Kudos to all police officers who observed Article 37 of the Constitution. However, there are a few elements who still do not understand the breadth of this right. We have identified the OCS at KICC and a Directorate of Criminal Investigations (DCI) officer who was targeting Members, including myself, with live rounds of ammunition at Wabera Street.

I want to tell the people who laugh and joke about these matters. Luckily you are my colleagues. In the event that I meet my demise on the streets, my family has assured that they shall set aside a tent for Senators. You might laugh and joke about these things, but you are the ones who will come to bury me and I am sure you will do it gladly.

I wish I had time to print an image of a child called Master Lewis Musera, who was hit on the head by a tear gas canister in Makadara. People laugh and say it is just a tear gas canister. If that projectile is fired directly at you from the distance at which I am speaking, be assured there will be funeral in your home area. What are we doing as Azimio la Umoja-One Kenya coalition party leaders?

In the past, we have had people who have confessed to infiltrating Opposition maandamano and committing nefarious crimes, including people who bring old cars and burn them and accuse supporters of the Orange Democratic Movement (ODM). We are going to be vigilant. In fact, we will not tolerate anyone calling themselves police officers in civilian clothing on Monday and Thursday next week, because that is how thugs are coming to harm people.

Madam Temporary Speaker, we want to exercise our rights.

Bi. Spika wa Muda, sijui kama hiyo uliyomruhusu Sen. Chute aseme ni hoja ya nidhamu. Lakini, wacha niendelee. Ni maono mazuri kwa sababu vijana kama ndugu yangu Sen. Cheruiyot hawezi kupata. Bi. Spika wa Muda ungeniruhusu kuweka huu mjadala mbele ya Bunge la Senati hivi sasa ile tuweze kuhairisha kikao hiki na kujadiliana mjadala huu ambao ni wa kitaifa na hususan unahusikana na ukatili wa polisi wa kufungia Waheshimiwa na wananchi katika vituo vya polisi kote nchini pamoja na viongozi wao. (Loud consultations) Ngoja ninakuja. Usifanye haraka, mosmos. Chama cha Muungano wa Azimio la Umoja kilipeana taarifa kwa mkuu wa polisi wa kituo cha Nairobi, kuarifu kuhusu maandamano ya amani yaliyokuwa yafanyike katika Wilaya ya Jiji la Nairobi, tarehe 20.03.2023. Walitumia haki yao kulingana na Kipengele 37 cha Katiba kuandamana kwa amani bila kubeba silaha zozote. Siku ya maandamano ilikuwa siku ya amani sana. Mimi mwenyewe nikiwa mmoja wa wale watu, tuliweza kutoka hapa kama waheshimiwa na tukaenda tukisema ya kwamba ni haki yetu kulingana na kipengele cha 87 ya kwamba tunaweza kuandamana. Ni jambo la kushangaza. Na mimi naomba, isije ikatokea upande wowote kwa sababu, umeamka usiku wa leo ukiwa upande huu, kesho, unaweza amka ukiwa upande ule mwingine. Hio ndio hali ya maisha na hali ya vile watu wanaishi. Bi. Spika wa Muda, sisi tulikuwa tunadai haki zetu. Cha kustaajabisha ni kwamba askari waliweza kupiga teargas bila ilani yoyote na bila kukasirishwa. Tafadhali ndugu yangu Sen. Cherarkey, jambo hili nilalozungumzia linahusika na kitu cha kitaifa kilichotendeka upande wa upinzani. Kama hakina maana kwako, tafadhali wacha Bi. Spika wa Muda aniskize na wananchi wote katika Kenya saa hizi wananiskiza. Kwa heshima, tafadhali. Bi. Spika wa Muda, tuko na kijana aliyeuaua huko Kisumu. Tuko na kijana ambaye alikuwa anasoma katika Chuo Kikuu cha Maseno. Hawa wawili walipigwa risasi na kufa. Sio kupigwa risasi kuumia tu, ama kuwa wagonjwa; walipigwa risasi na polisi. Kawaida katika kitengo hiki cha 87 cha Katiba--- Sasa hivi, nimesema ya kwamba Sen. Cherarkey aondoke, hivi sasa, kumekuja mwingine tena, anakuongelesha na huniskizi.

March 22, 2023 SENATE DEBATES 53

Sen. Veronica Maina

My microphone is still on---

hon. Senator

Mulirusha mawe!

The Minority Leader

Hon. Senators

Shame!

March 22, 2023 SENATE DEBATES 54

Hon. Senators

Have you seconded the

Sen. Madzayo):

Madam Temporary Speaker, with all my body parts, I second the Motion.

Huu ni wakati mgumu sana kwa waislamu. Ni wakati ambao wamejiweka mbele ya Mwenyezi Mungu. Mhe. Amina Munyazi alionyeshwa madharau ambayo haiyajaonekana ndani ya hii nchi kwa mwanamke wa Kiislamu.Bi. Spika wa Muda, hili si jambo la kuchezea namna hiyo. Hata kama wewe ni askari na hauheshimi dini ya Kiislamu, sisi tunakwambia kitu kimoja, wewe askari uliyemvua nguo, na wewe ulikuwa mama, heshimu dini ya kiislamu.(Applause) Kumalizia, ninasema ya kwamba, heshima sio utumwa. Leo tuko pande hii, kesho tunaweza kuwa upande ule. Viongozi wa upinzani, Baba Raila Odinga, Martha Karua, Kalonzo Musyoka, Eugene Wamalwa, Jeremiah Kioni na Wajakoyah, lazima wapewe heshima ndani ya hii nchi. Ni lazima wapewe heshima---

Sen. Veronica Maina

Finish. You have one minute. The Minority Leader (

Sen. Madzayo) :

I can equally be a heckler. It is only that I restrain myself. It should be known by Members on the Minority side. We had something that looked like a demonstration in Nairobi on Monday. It was not a demonstration.

When people demonstrate on top of cars, that is not a demonstration but a caravan. In a demonstration you walk with your people. When they are harmed, you do

Sen. Veronica Maina

Sen. Sifuna, did you stand to second the Motion?

Debate, you have the Floor.

Sen. Veronica Maina

Madam Temporary Speaker, this House is becoming ungovernable. I think it is very important that---

Boss, you cannot tell me what to do. You are not--- I will shout at you. You are not going to tell me what to do in this House. I did not come here with your permission.

Yes. Then you are not the Chairperson. Do not shout here. You do not become a hooligan.

Temporary Speaker

: Hon. Senators---

Protect me, Madam Temporary Speaker. These hooligans are shouting in the House all the time.

Temporary Speaker

: Hon. Senators, I have pleaded several times that we maintain order in the House. The Speaker will now take action against any Senator found to be out of order. So, maintain the cool. Let us do the debate.

Sen. Veronica Maina

I agree with you, Madam Temporary Speaker. Before I prosecute my thoughts on this matter, I think that the frustration that is coming in this House over and over is because of the simple issue of not implementing the rules of this House.

If a hon. Senator in this House can decide to call the name of anybody without a substantive Motion to be discussed in this House the way we have seen the Senator of Kiambu County discussing Rt. hon. Raila Odinga, what are we doing? In every single bit of discussion of this House, help us enforce the laws of this House. There is no way you can allow Sen. Thangw’a to talk about an individual who is not here at all.

If this happens---

Do you want to pour water on me?

If this keeps on happening, we will have a problem. However, that said, we are seeing this country going back to the dark days of the Kenya African National Union

(KANU)

. This is because of the use of unwarranted force by the police in this Country that we saw in the demonstration. This does not stop with anybody but the President of this Country.

Do not shout. Do not be a heckler bwana! It is very critical that we note the following. You know, there are people in Government today whose cases were

No, I have not described anyone, Madam Temporary Speaker. I want to request you, please do not engage in our brawls. Please. Just sit and be a neutral referee. I have not named anyone.

March 22, 2023 SENATE DEBATES 55

Madam Temporary Speaker, this is what I was saying. People keep on shouting here against your own rules.

Temporary Speaker

: Hon. Senators---

I am a Senator and I am supposed to be heard in silence. Sen. Orwoba is shouting. This hooligan here is shouting. Another hooligan there is shouting.

Temporary Speaker

: Sen. Oketch Gicheru, when I am addressing the House, you ought to listen, not to continue shouting. Resume your seat. Resume your seat Sen. Oketch Gicheru.

Sen. Oketch Gicheru, if I have to warn you again, I will rule you out of order and you might have to exit.

Sen. Okenyuri, you may proceed.

Sen. Veronica Maina

Madam Temporary Speaker, my time was not over. Temporary Speaker

: Sen. Okenyuri, proceed.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I also want to be heard in total silence.

Order, Senators. Resume your

Sen. Veronica Maina

Senator, I hope you will take the wisdom of that objection by Sen. Mandago.

An.

March 22, 2023 SENATE DEBATES 56

processions. Indeed, the coalition known as Azimio la Umoja did notify the Nairobi City County Commander via a written letter that we would be undertaking maandamano.

Madam Temporary Speaker, we want to exercise our rights.

Sen. Veronica Maina

Sen Sifuna, your time is up.

My microphone is still on---

Sen. Veronica Maina

Sen Sifuna, I will give you half a minute to finish your sentence.

Madam Temporary Speaker, we have heard dangerous pronouncements from some of the colleagues in the political circles talking about final

March 22, 2023 SENATE DEBATES 57

solutions to certain people who they consider to be the problem. I am a student of history just like you. You will remember the question of the final solution of Jews in Europe.

We should not use such language. By the time you resort to violence, it means you have lost the argument. Engage us in robust debate the way we are doing here. If you are unable to engage us, please remove the police, so that we can deal with you straight, mundu khu mundu.

I thank you.

The Temporary Speaker (Sen. Veronica Maina)

Have you seconded the

Madam Temporary Speaker, with all my body parts, I second the Motion.

Sen. Veronica Maina

Proceed, Sen. Thang’wa.

Sen. Thang’wa

Madam Temporary Speaker, as I rise to comment on the Motion, I rarely shout or heckle but I want to interest you with the term “Stockholm syndrome”. That is where one falls in love with their tormentors. Madam Temporary Speaker, I have been rising on points of order with my cool but you have not been seeing me. I am not insinuating anything but when Members of the minority side raise points of order even on a small issue, they are given opportunity. Kindly check on that. (An hon. Senator spoke off record) I am just giving information. It is going to happen as we watch. Just wait and see. Madam Temporary Speaker, I have one thing to say. First, I do not support police brutality. I do not support people being beaten up, injured or shot by the police. However, we should remember that Members of the minority side are on record saying that; “ndio baba awe, lazima watu kadhaa wafe.” Every time there are demonstrations, they hide their goons within the police so that they can kill a few people and then come and set the agenda on this House. Madam Temporary Speaker, they sit down after the demonstration and say, “how many people did we kill? How many people died?” How many people--- so that--- (Loud consultations) I need to be heard. Temporary Speaker (

Sen. Veronica Maina) :

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I repeat, it is the height of hypocrisy when the Opposition keeps demonstrating out there asking for dialogue. As we saw this afternoon, when an opportunity arose in this House, they were very adamant to support the Motion that is going to admit CSs to be answerable to Members of this House. In return, they will then say that their issues are not being handled. What hypocrisy is this?

I saw my respected Senate Minority Leader was arrested. He is out because he is a man of means. The other Azimio la Umoja protestors are not yet out. ‘Slay queens’ kept admiring how endowed you are and kept scavenging. Senate Minority Leader, we do not want you to keep demanding for dialogue and then keep on paralyzing business in this House.

Sen. Thangw’a

When people demonstrate on top of cars, that is not a demonstration but a caravan. In a demonstration you walk with your people. When they are harmed, you do

March 22, 2023 SENATE DEBATES 58

Sen. Thangw’a

On a point of order.

March 22, 2023 SENATE DEBATES 59

Sen. Thangw’a

Debate, you have the Floor.

Madam Temporary Speaker, this House is becoming ungovernable. I think it is very important that--- (Sen. Cherarkey spoke off record) Boss, you cannot tell me what to do. You are not--- I will shout at you. You are not going to tell me what to do in this House. I did not come here with your permission. (

Sen. Orwoba spoke off record) Yes. Then you are not the Chairperson. Do not shout here. You do not become a hooligan. Temporary Speaker (Sen. Veronica Maina) :

On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker.

Sen. Orwoba, what is your point of order?

Sen. Veronica Maina) :

I will give each side one point of order.

Hon. Senators, I have pleaded several times that we maintain order in the House. The Speaker will now take action against any Senator found to be out of order. So, maintain the cool. Let us do the debate.

If this happens---

Do you want to pour water on me?

If this keeps on happening, we will have a problem. However, that said, we are seeing this country going back to the dark days of the Kenya African National Union

(KANU)

. This is because of the use of unwarranted force by the police in this Country that we saw in the demonstration. This does not stop with anybody but the President of this Country.

Do not shout. Do not be a heckler bwana! It is very critical that we note the following. You know, there are people in Government today whose cases were

March 22, 2023 SENATE DEBATES 60

Madam Temporary Speaker, I was making reference to ‘slay queens’ out there, who were admiring assets of the Senate Minority Leader. Why should I withdraw that?

I will give one point of order to Sen. Olekina. I will give him only one minute.

Sen. Veronica Maina) :

Madam Temporary Speaker, with all due respect, I stand on a point of order under Standing Order No.98. I beseech our colleagues; we are all respected and distinguished Members, who represent our counties. The way we are carrying ourselves this afternoon, is not distinguished.

I have a reason as to why I stand under Standing Order No.98 (1) , which states as follows –

“Any Senator may raise a point of order at any time during the speech of another Senator, stating that the Senator raises a point of order and that Senator shall be required to indicate the Standing Order upon which the point of order is based.” Madam Temporary Speaker, there are two issues here. While you were on your feet, two of our colleagues here, were insulting each other. It is not right. We are here

Hon. Senators---

discussing a very important matter. Can I just request that we act as hon. Members? Today, we are not being honourable.

On our side here, we noticed that when the distinguished Senator for Migori County was speaking, he was interrupted. Maybe because of the noise back and forth, he had not finished prosecuting his issues.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I request that as you sit on that Chair, look at both sides and do not to hesitate---

Sen. Orwoba is shouting. This hooligan here is shouting. Another hooligan there is shouting. Temporary Speaker (Sen. Veronica Maina) :

Wind up, Sen. Olekina.

Sen. Oketch Gicheru, when I am addressing the House, you ought to listen, not to continue shouting. Resume your seat. Resume your seat Sen. Oketch Gicheru. Sen. Oketch Gicheru, if I have to warn you again, I will rule you out of order and you might have to exit. Sen. Okenyuri, you may proceed.

Madam Temporary Speaker, my time was not over. Temporary Speaker (

Sen. Veronica Maina) :

Madam Temporary Speaker, we cannot carry ourselves as if we are not distinguished Members.

We are reducing this House to a very noisy club, where our own views cannot be heard. I will restrict myself to calling them honourable although their actions are not honourable this afternoon.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I beseech your Chair to be impartial and fair when it comes to allowing us to speak. If a Member from the Minority side was the one that was heckling or talking right now, you would be saying that we are out of order.

However, you are quiet when the Senate Majority Leader is leading his entire troop to violate these Standing Orders and that leaves a lot to be desired.

Sen. Olekina, I gave you one minute to raise that point of order. We are seeking for order in the House. Let us continually by example. If the Chair gives you one minute, stick to it and make your point.

Hon. Senators, you could have done better this afternoon. Sen. Oketch Gicheru, your time was up, the system kept time and it timed you out as you were making side issues as part of your debate.

We proceed on to Sen. Cherarkey.

The Temporary Speaker (Sen. Veronica Maina)

Madam Temporary Speaker, I rise to oppose the Motion by the Senate Minority Leader in the strongest terms possible. What we saw on Monday was an

March 22, 2023 SENATE DEBATES 61

The Temporary Speaker (Sen. Veronica Maina)

abuse of Article 37 where the beginning of the right of another person is the start of the right of the next person.

An.

Hon. Senator

Na si mnyamaze!

Sen. Veronica Maina

It could actually be looking worse to those who are shouting while I am addressing the House. We ought to have respect for the Chair and the House.

When I call Sen. Okenyuri to address the House, I will request silence and no shouting or trading of words across. When a Senator is on her feet and you do that, it means you do not respect the House or the person who is debating.

I am once again giving directives before I finally take action against Senators who will defy.

Proceed, Sen. Okenyuri.

The people in Kilifi were affected by the extrajudicial killings. I went to Kilifi when I was the Chairperson of the Committee on Justice, Legal Affairs and Human Rights. There were many extra-judicial killings in Kilifi.

Resume your seat, Sen.

The Temporary Speaker (Sen. Veronica Maina)

Madam Temporary Speaker, I must be heard in silence. We shall not be intimidated or blackmailed.

Wind up, Sen. Cherarkey. Can you resume your seat, you will get a chance.

March 22, 2023 SENATE DEBATES 62

Madam Temporary Speaker, I am afraid that I will not be able to prosecute my issue.

The Temporary Speaker (Sen. Veronica Maina)

Senators, resume your seats.

Sen. Veronica Maina

Sen. Wambua, you are out of order. Sen. Cherarkey and Sen. Oketch Gicheru, resume your seats.

Resume your seats, Senators. I will rule you out of order, if you do not obey what the Chair is saying. Sen. Oketch Gicheru, that is out of order. That serves as the final warning.

Sen. Okenyuri, address the House. You will be accorded the respect that every Senator deserves. Please, address the House.

What can you do to me? No. Do not threaten me, my friend. You cannot threaten me. Wewe ni kitu kidogo sana.

Madam Temporary Speaker, in conclusion---.

Sen. Madzayo) :

Please, conclude.

On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker.

Sen. Veronica Maina

I gave a direction. Sen. Okenyuri is first addressing the House.

March 22, 2023 SENATE DEBATES 63

Proceed, Sen. Kinyua.

Bi. Spika wa Muda, ninashukuru kwa kunipa fursa. Ni vizuri Hoja hii imeletwa leo ndio watu waeze kuongea. Kulingana na Katiba ya Kenya, Kipengele 37, kinasema vizuri sana, maandamano yanapaswa yafanywe lakini kwa amani. Kwa hivyo, watu kubeba mawe ni jambo ambalo linaudhi sana. Kuwashambulia Wakenya wengine na kuwaibia ni jambo ambalo halikubaliki. Mimi niliona maandamano hayo watu walkuwa wanatembea hapa mjini na wakafanya maduka ya watu yafungwe.

Sen. Veronica Maina

What is your point of order?

Sen. Veronica Maina

Resume your seat.

We are not going to have a ‘handshake’ in this country. That was a bad governance experiment for this country.

Thank you.

Sen. Orwoba

On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker.

Sen. Veronica Maina

Sen. Orwoba, what is your point of order?

Sen. Veronica Maina

I will give each side one point of order.

Sen. Orwoba

Madam Temporary Speaker, I rise on a point of order. You have spoken about parliamentary language. As a woman who is sometimes mistaken and abused, I ask that Sen. Okenyuri withdraws the ‘slay queens’ remark. You cannot call people ‘slay queens’. Please let her withdraw it.

Sen. Veronica Maina

Yes, Sen. Okenyuri.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I was making reference to ‘slay queens’ out there, who were admiring assets of the Senate Minority Leader. Why should I withdraw that?

Sen. Veronica Maina

I will give one point of order to Sen. Olekina. I will give him only one minute.

I have a reason as to why I stand under Standing Order No.98 (1) , which states as follows –

March 22, 2023 SENATE DEBATES 64

discussing a very important matter. Can I just request that we act as hon. Members? Today, we are not being honourable.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I request that as you sit on that Chair, look at both sides and do not to hesitate---

The Temporary Speaker (Sen. Veronica Maina)

Wind up, Sen. Olekina.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I wish that the Majority side would just lend me an ear. I want to remind you – this is the last word that I am going to give you today – power has gotten into your head and power is transient.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I know you are a Member of the other side. However, when you sit there, you must be impartial.

Sen. Veronica Maina

Order, Members.

Madam Temporary Speaker, we cannot carry ourselves as if we are not distinguished Members.

We are reducing this House to a very noisy club, where our own views cannot be heard. I will restrict myself to calling them honourable although their actions are not honourable this afternoon.

However, you are quiet when the Senate Majority Leader is leading his entire troop to violate these Standing Orders and that leaves a lot to be desired.

Sen. Veronica Maina

Hon. Senators, you could have done better this afternoon. Sen. Oketch Gicheru, your time was up, the system kept time and it timed you out as you were making side issues as part of your debate.

We proceed on to Sen. Cherarkey.

Sen. Cherarkey

Madam Temporary Speaker, I rise to oppose the Motion by the Senate Minority Leader in the strongest terms possible. What we saw on Monday was an

March 22, 2023 SENATE DEBATES 65

Sen. Cherarkey

abuse of Article 37 where the beginning of the right of another person is the start of the right of the next person.

Sen. Veronica Maina

Hon. Senators, on the Majority side, maintain order.

Sen. Cherarkey

Madam Temporary Speaker, I have seen that the Azimio-One Kenya Alliance have sympathy addiction. The allegation that the police shot at their leaders while it was their bodyguards who were shooting at them in order to get sympathy from the public---.

Madam Temporary Speaker, are you aware that 24 police officers were injured, 10 police vehicles were damaged and seven officers were injured in Nyanza? The demonstrations we saw on Monday were only in three places; Migori, Kisumu and Kibra. The demonstrations were nowhere else. These people are economic saboteurs. Over Kshs2 billion was lost. My lawyer colleagues in Kenya Kwanza are collecting and doing quantum, quantifying the losses that were done by demonstrators of the Azimio One Kenya Alliance.

Madam Temporary Speaker, we are moving to Court to sue hon. Raila Odinga, hon. Kalonzo Musyoka, hon. Wajackoyah among others to ensure they compensate farmers. We shall also include Sen. Madzayo. We shall sue them.

I want to speak on the issue of elections because I am still within time. Sen. Madzayo comes from the Coast region. The holy month of Ramadhan is beginning tomorrow or next week. Can they respect Muslims as they start their Holy Month? They are supposed to be praying, to be generous and peace loving.

Madam Temporary Speaker, the fourth issue is to assure the Minority Side that there will be no handshake, co-operation or nusu mkate whether they demonstrate on Mondays and Thursdays or not. I commend the police officers; they must deal ruthlessly with these hooligans.

I thank the police of the City of Nairobi. The property and lives of Kenyans must be protected. If there is an issue of one person who died in Maseno, there is the Independent Policing Oversight Authority (IPOA) . We also sympathize and empathize with the family. There is also the Directorate of Criminal Investigations (DCIO) . If they want to accuse the police, there are agencies and entities that are in place.

Madam Temporary Speaker, the sponsors, including the former President who are sponsoring the demonstrations are doing so because there is investigations into corruption and extra-judicial killings, where innocent sons in Kilifi and Mombasa were being killed and thrown into River Yala or thrown in the Tsavo National Park.

March 22, 2023 SENATE DEBATES 66

Sen. Cherarkey

The Temporary Speaker (Sen. Veronica Maina)

Resume your seat, Sen.

Sen. Cherarkey

Madam Temporary Speaker, I must be heard in silence. We shall not be intimidated or blackmailed.

Sen. Veronica Maina

Wind up, Sen. Cherarkey. Can you resume your seat, you will get a chance.

Sen. Cherarkey

During the “handshake” Government ---

Sen. Veronica Maina

Sen. Madzayo, you are out of order. I will now ask you ---

Sen. Madzayo resume your seat. You are out of order.

I will now ask the Serjeant-at-Arms, to ask ---- I asked you to resume your seat. It is that simple. I will give you your time to respond.

Sen. Cherarkey, say your final remarks then you sit.

Sen. Cherarkey

Correct, Madam Temporary Speaker. I will not be intimidated or blackmailed. I will speak. I will not be silenced. I am not a coward.

March 22, 2023 SENATE DEBATES 67

Sen. Cherarkey

What can you do to me? No. Do not threaten me, my friend. You cannot threaten me. Wewe ni kitu kidogo sana.

Madam Temporary Speaker, in conclusion---.

Sen. Veronica Maina

Please, conclude.

Sen. Cherarkey

The sponsors of maandamano or Azimio are the people who want to prevent investigations on extra judicial killings and corruption. That is Uhuru Kenyatta. He must stop sponsoring maandamano.

I thank you.

Sen. Veronica Maina

Sen. Oketch Gicheru, I want to give you an opportunity to raise your point of order. However, before I do that, let me issue this caution. Increasingly, there is a lot of disrespect in the manner in which you are handling business in this House. I give you this opportunity to rise with a warning. You cannot be shouting at a debater on the Floor when you will still get a chance to speak your point.

So, I give you a chance but with caution.

Madam Temporary Speaker, once again, protect me from the Senate Majority Leader. I want to execute this in a very humble manner. We are pleading with you that let the rules of this House be adhered to.

Sen. Cherarkey has several times spoken and called individuals, that are senior Members of this society, names on this Floor.

Our Standing Orders do not allow us to bring anybody’s name in this House without a substantive Motion. The reason as to why you might see us as chaotic and shouting is because there is no way these people keep on calling other people names and you allow it.

Madam Temporary Speaker, Sen. Cherarkey has just called the Senate Minority Leader, a killer and you did not mention anything about it. So, we are pleading with you to please execute the rule of this House.

Sen. Veronica Maina

Proceed, Sen. Kinyua.

March 22, 2023 SENATE DEBATES 68

Bi. Spika wa Muda, watu wliashambuliwa na hata wengine wako mortuary. Ukweli ujulikane, kile kilichoniudhi zaidi, nikuona Kiongozi wa Waliowachache na wengine wameshikwa.

Sen. Veronica Maina

Wind up, Sen. Kinyua. I want to take one more person from this side.