July 22nd, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Wednesday, 22nd July, 2015

Yes, Sen. Orengo.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, with your permission, I would like to give notice of the following Motion.

THAT WHEREAS the President of the United States of America, Mr. Barrack Obama, is to visit Kenya between 24th and 26th July, 2015 to attend the Global Entrepreneurship Summit (GES) ;

AND WHEREAS the visit is the first to the Republic of Kenya by a sitting President of the United States of America;

NOW THEREFORE, the Senate welcomes the President and records its appreciation for the historic visit to Kenya and calls upon both Governments to deepen and broaden their relations in order to promote social and economic development of the two countries based on shared values of liberty, justice, human rights and democracy.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. You will recall that you directed that the two Cabinet Secretaries; the one in charge of Education, Science and Technology and the one for Interior and National Coordination meet with Senators today.

July 22nd, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Chairperson for Education, do you have an explanation to Sen. Obure?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I sincerely apologise for the mix up of what happened this morning. This is attributed to information coming from different sources. Some information came from the Office of the President. We also had some information from the Cabinet Secretary, Ministry of Education. Earlier, we received information to the effect that all Cabinet Secretaries were supposed to be with the President as he opened the summit at the Kenyatta International Convention Centre (KICC) this morning.

My hope was that all of us would gather here this morning. However, later on, other developments came up where the Cabinet Secretary for Interior and National Coordination, Hon. Nkaissery, indicated that the meeting would end at 10.30 a.m and that next week he would be out of the country and, therefore, would not be available until after three weeks.

Since we wanted both of them to appear here, he implored upon me to have the meeting called. He convinced his colleague, the Cabinet Secretary for Education that they come here at 11.00 a.m instead of 10.00 a.m. That was very hectic for me and other Senators who were available. I thank the Senators who were available. We had more than 10 of them and they listened. Fortunately, everything is in written form. If you want to get information, you can always get it from me or from any other Member who was present.

That is the position, Sen. Obure. Just look at the information available. If you still feel like pursuing the matter, I will accord you the necessary opportunity.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. My concern goes to the Chairperson of the Committee. Whereas he has given the apologies of the mix up, the message was sent at exactly 7.13 a.m. I also received it. My question is: Did they try to gather Members when they got different information because we had serious interests in this matter? Personally, I wanted to ask some very serious questions about some issues. Did they attempt, through the Clerk’s Office, to reach out to Members because I did not see any follow up message after I received the one for 7.13 a.m in the morning. In future,

July 22nd, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I was in the meeting today, having bumped into the Chairman. In view of what happened today, and given the fact that there is a record of the proceedings; would I be in order to propose that the Chairman lays on the Table a report of what transpired this morning so that all Senators can ably look at it? We do not only need the HANSARD, but a report indicating the genesis of the questions that were raised and the report thereof.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I was also present at this meeting. I thank Sen. Ndiema who pulled me to attend although I arrived there when it was almost concluding. I feel sad that our distinguished Senator from Kisii County was not at the meeting and yet he was the originator of the questions. The questions are very passionate to the delegation of Kisii County. I feel that our Committee should have called Sen. Obure to be present because the deliberations were very fruitful. As a way forward, in future, I suggest that when something like this is expected to happen, at least, Senators who brought up the issues are informed. We should not have a repetition of this.

With a lot of regard to the distinguished Senator Karaba, the Chairman whom I respect, I feel that our Senator from Kisii County should have been informed of the meeting.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the dynamism of this meeting was that for the first time we would have the two Cabinet Secretaries at the same time. We wanted to cross check information between the two so that where there is a gap, for instance, in education matters; we see how infiltration and interception can come from security matters and vice versa. Unfortunately, we could not do this.

Going by the suggestion by Sen. Kagwe, when the report is tabled, we can find out whether the intercession has been addressed. If it is not, then we may need to get into another engagement at that level.

Secondly, since many Senators were around the precincts, it would have been appropriate for another message to be sent out so as to quickly whip most Senators to the Chamber. That happened and it is gone. This situation arose because there were changes in communication as Sen. Karaba explained. Some of these factors may have been beyond our control at that moment because we did not get confirmations early. That put us in that situation. In future, we should make sure that we have a very set programme and time and try to adhere to it. The key issue is for the Cabinet Secretaries to make their appearance before the Senate a priority. That will help us follow through the programme.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. It is unfortunate that there was a breakdown in communication. I happened to be around. The Chairman was frantically trying to get Members. The two Cabinet Secretaries were already here and it would have been very embarrassing if we did not attend. Fortunately, we attended and very many questions were put to them. I suggest that a report be prepared and presented to all Senators which should also be tabled by the Chairman. If there are any other issues to be addressed, at that stage, we will decide what to do.

July 22nd, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I was at the meeting and would not like to preempt Sen. Karaba’s report. However, I recall that one of the proposals we made, if implemented, will essentially mean that we meet the two Cabinet Secretaries again. I do not think that all is lost. We made very concrete proposals. Most likely, after the Chairman tables the report, we will meet the two Cabinet Secretaries again to follow up on our recommendations.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for those interjections. I sincerely apologise for what happened this morning. We had to ring the bell several times and I frantically had to go out to look for anybody who was within the precincts of Parliament. I found a few whom I informed about the meeting, but they did not come. I thought I would find my friend, Chris, because I really wanted him to be there. I tried to get him through telephone, but it was not possible. I will lay the report on the Table.

We have agreed that we tour the area shortly with the two Ministers. After that, they will come again to tell us how the situation is like in north eastern and other parts of Kenya.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Could you kindly indulge me? As you know, the issue of the expenditure of public funds in counties is very urgent. There are many complaints in all counties. I have accounts from several counties here. The report was not brought to me on time, but I need to lay it on the Table so that the respective Senators and the Committee can be seized of the matter. We should move to that Order.

I will start with the last issue that has been raised. I am afraid I had agreed, but after listening to what transpired with the Committee on Education, I am not willing to proceed. Tomorrow is still a day; we need to be alert. That is why we put these things on the Order Paper.

That brings me to the problem of the Committee. It is normal expectation that the Senator who sought the matter should have been invited. Sen. Karaba, this is a digital era. We have all options available such as Short Message Services (SMS) , WhatsApp, email, Skype and Istagram. You should not have relied on ringing the bell alone which has limited geographical coverage.

I am a bit disappointed. I would have ordered that you summon the Cabinet Secretaries again. However, under the circumstances, there was an agreement that you would invite them, given another opportunity. They realised that the commitment would not take very long. They also did not want to travel before honouring our invitation. Those were the mitigating factors. I will request Sen. Obure to bear with us.

Give him as much information as he needs. If he is not satisfied, my office is available to him and we will take any remedial measures necessary for him to participate in interrogating the Cabinet Secretaries directly.

July 22nd, 2015 SENATE DEBATES DEATH OF MS. MAUREEN TATA AND THE DETERIORATING HEALTH STANDARDS IN THE COUNTRY

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.45 (2) (b) to seek a statement from the Chairperson of the standing Committee on Health on the death of Ms. Maureen Tata and the deteriorating health standards in the country.

In the statement, the Chairperson should explain the following:-

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I thank Sen. Kanainza for bringing up this very important Question because it relates to the death of a very important young person. This is a woman and one of the strongest youth that we had in this country.

Further, in that statement, I would also like the Chairperson of the Committee to explain how many mushrooming private clinics are in this country, how many are registered in Nairobi, if they have suitable maternal care equipment and whether they have qualified medical practitioners.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I think there is an aspect which the Senator left out and which would be very useful in the response, if you can allow me. The Chairperson should also indicate in the report if the anesthetist who gave the patient anesthesia – regional or local – was qualified, besides the doctor who operated being found qualified. She should also tell us whether in that hospital there are qualified theatre nurses. Theatre nurses are not just general nurses.

Finally, they should tell us whether this hospital is a registered institution, accredited to offer the kind of services they were offering

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I also thank Sen. Kanainza for requesting for that Statement. This young lady was one of the active members of the Orange Democratic Movement (ODM) Youth League who fought for the liberation of youth in

July 22nd, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I also join my colleagues in congratulating Sen. Kanainza. In fact, it is very sad to die while giving birth. I would like to request the Chairperson to clarify whether all the attendants – nurses and surgeons – are qualified and not just the anesthetist and the surgeon who did the operation.

That was a smart one. I was almost saying it is repetitive, but I think it qualifies.

Order, Members! I mentioned to you this week that we will not entertain riding on business. In fact, we have already entertained too much. Statements sought are not trains to carry extra cargo.

Where are the Chairperson and Vice Chairperson?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, they are both missing.

Order, Sen. Elachi! You are the Chief Whip and you need to produce those Senators. So, take the responsibility.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. This is a very serious matter. The hon. Members have gone to benchmark and, therefore, I think it is time the CS himself comes and explains some of these things because of the trend that we have faced---

Order, Sen. Elachi! Your assignment is very simple. Deliver the message and when to expect the response.

Tuesday, next week, Sir.

Next week on Tuesday we will still be around.

Hon. Senators, I have a communication to make.

July 22nd, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I was just going to join in welcoming the guests from Burkina Faso. I lived near them many years ago. So, I have empathy for that country.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I join you to welcome our guests from Burkina Faso and the Nyota Academy who are with us this afternoon.

Next statement. Proceed Sen. Khaniri.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. On 6th May this year, Sen. Ong’era sought a Statement from my Committee regarding the hazards posed by the Nairobi Dam, especially during the rainy season. She requested for a number of things which I will proceed straight away to clarify.

July 22nd, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

July 22nd, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

July 22nd, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity. First, I would like to thank the Vice Chairman of the Committee on Land and Natural Resources, the distinguished Senator for Vihiga County, Sen. Khaniri for going out of his way to get a response to this statement.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I sought this statement in May, 2015. As you can see, it has taken over two and a half months to get the responses. The Senator had to issue summons to get the responses. It was actually like trying to milk a camel to get the answers. Therefore, I commend him for the good work he has done.

Order, Sen. Ong’era! Some of us milk camels without much difficulty.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for informing me about that. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the answers have been given. However, as the English saying goes, the proof of the pudding is in the eating. Until the foaming, the effluence and the smell that comes out of Nairobi Dam ceases, that is when we will know that something has been done.

Since May, I have been passing there. Every evening, I make sure that I pass through Nairobi Dam to see efforts being done. I wish the dam can become as clean as it used to be in the 1970s when we had boats that sailed across it and we used to enjoy the activities. However, nothing much has been achieved. As long as we have the white foam still floating and many people dying as they cross over, there will be no change. They tell us that they have put footbridges yet there are many deaths still occurring along the Dam. As long as these issues keep happening, then, the County Government will not have achieved much.

However, despite that, I thank the Vice Chairman for getting a response to this statement.

I thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I wish to join Sen. Ong’era in thanking Sen. Khaniri for the very comprehensive answer. I do not know about my colleagues here, but I really miss the late Prof. Wangari Maathai because the environmental degradation taking place in this city is unbelievable. I have been standing here; talking many times about the degradation in Westlands, Loresho, Kibera and other places. I hope that this is a new beginning and that the Nairobi County Government is taking these issues seriously.

Order, Sen. Kembi-Gitura. This is Statement Hour.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is an extremely important situation. That is the reason I am now appreciating what Sen. Khaniri has done. I do not know whether you are aware, but if you drive towards Kenya Institute of Administration (KIA) and Loresho Ridge, you will see somebody building right along the river bank. The

July 22nd, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the matter of the Nairobi Dam is very serious. After reading this, I do not even think that the County Government of Nairobi has the capacity to deal with this issue. I would suggest that we go with the method proposed by the Senate Minority Leader, because this is a national disaster in itself.

When I was the president of the Rotary Club of Nairobi, we constructed ten ablution blocks in Silanga. I can tell you that even if they do 50 of them as proposed here, it is not going to solve the problem. For those who do not know, the purpose for the setting up of Nairobi Dam was to ensure that the fire department of the former Nairobi City Council drew water from it, to take care of fire disasters. I would, therefore, think that it is not enough to send Sen. Khaniri to do anymore research. There is nothing much he can do regarding this.

July 22nd, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Mr. Speaker, Sir, once again my apologies to my good sister, Sen. Ong’era for the late reply. I gave to this House the reasons this answer did not come in time. The County Government of Nairobi has stipulated to us, in the answers that I have read, the measures that they intend to take to address all the issues that have been raised by the Members here, starting with Sen. Ong’era, Sen. Wetangula, Sen. Kembi-Gitura and Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. They have given the timelines within which we expect to see some results. So, it would be better if we could wait and see if they will be able to meet the timelines that they have given us. If nothing happens within the period that they have stipulated, we will still bring this matter here to be interrogated. But for now, they have given an elaborate plan on what they intend to do and we should be content with that.

Regarding the issues raised by Sen. Wetangula, indeed, it is true that I do not have the blueprint. That was not part of what I was researching on. If the Senator wants the governor and his executive member for environment to appear before this House, he knows the procedure. We will summon them here and they will be able to produce that blueprint.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Hon. Senators, I tend to agree with the Vice Chairman. We call the Cabinet Secretaries when the Committee has expressed frustration that they are not satisfied with the information they are getting. However, in this particular matter, the Committee, as most of you have alluded to, is competent enough to get whatever information you need. Since there are timelines, I would agree with the Vice Chairman that we proceed along those lines. In any case, Sen. Ong’era put it very well that until the signs improve, that is when she will appreciate that something has been done. I think the proof of the pudding is in the eating, to quote David Frost.

I am satisfied that there is no need now to call the governor and his team. Let the Committee pursue the matter and when they feel that nothing much has been done, they can do so. In the meantime, and even more importantly, some of these suggestions can be directed to the Committee, so that they can process them as we determine progress.

Next Statement!

Mr. Speaker, Sir, on 30th April, 2015, Sen. (Eng.) Muriuki Karue sought a Statement from the Vice Chairman of the Joint Committee on Cohesion and Equal Opportunity regarding the criterion for appointment and regional distribution of the recent appointments to parastatals. In the statement he sought answers to the following questions:-

July 22nd, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

July 22nd, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I am sorry to interrupt, but the Chairman is about to read out a very long list of names of people appointed to parastatals, the counties they come from and so on. Maybe it would be useful if he could share the list with us first. Could he lay the answer on the Table so that we can look at it and generate questions as to the constitutionality of the distribution by way of ethnicity, regional balance and, of course, county distribution? The Senate Minority Leader (

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I agree with Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale that this list be tabled first so that everybody knows what it is all about. Secondly, I had asked three questions: One of them was: What is the criterion?

As much as Sen. Wetangula and others feel that people from Nyandarua County are favoured because they support Jubilee Government, it is far from the truth. So, I request them to wait for the answer. I do not understand the criterion which gave Nyeri County 13 people, Nyandarua County two, Migori County 2 and Kisii County 12. This has got nothing to do with supporting the Jubilee Government. The best way is to let this list be tabled. Photocopying that part of the list will take only a few minutes. However, I would still require part (b) of my question to be answered. It is not a Jubilee issue. My county is being marginalised in this aspect. So, let the question be answered, we take a few minutes, table the list and question (b) will be answered in another Session.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, because of the excitement some of us do not want to wait until the whole list is done, could he, in the meantime, read the 47 counties very quickly so that we know? Even as he tables we get to hear what exactly is happening? Otherwise, let us then do what he suggested; we make photocopies while we handle the other Statements. Probably, while doing so, we would have got all the lists.

July 22nd, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, that is what I have; a cover letter and the three annexes.

There are how many names?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, there are 291 names.

Do you have Annex 1, 2 and 3? Is that all you have?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, that is what I have.

Where is the answer to the question? The question was in how many parts?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the question had three parts. One part was on the number according to annex 3. Part 2 was on the criterion, which I said, has not been answered.

It has not been answered at all?

Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the criterion is not there at all.

And then?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, Part 3 of the question is on the names of the appointees which are captured in Annex 1.

The hon. Member has said that I can give him what I have first.

You can do what?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, he says I read what I have. However, I had asked the Chair for directions whether I could give part of the answer or wait for the criterion.

July 22nd, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

The request being made by Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale is reasonable. The purpose of the statement in the House is so that---

Order, Sen. Wetangula! If I need your help, I will ask for it. I do not think I need it yet.

The purpose of a statement like this one is that all Senators, not just the ones who sought it, can interrogate it as necessary. Is it not?

I have heard what Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale and Sen. (Eng.) Muriuki said. I would propose that the Clerk’s office makes the statement available to any Senator who wants to have it. Let them have a look it, and then you can give the statement to be interrogated. That would stop any anticipation on the list that you have. I do not want anybody to say that they could not interrogate the statement that you will issue.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I agree. I will give the Clerk’s office to make copies.

July 22nd, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

The request being made by Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale is reasonable. The purpose of the statement in the House is so that---

Order, Sen. Wetangula! If I need your help, I will ask for it. I do not think I need it yet.

The purpose of a statement like this one is that all Senators, not just the ones who sought it, can interrogate it as necessary. Is it not?

I have heard what Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale and Sen. (Eng.) Muriuki said. I would propose that the Clerk’s office makes the statement available to any Senator who wants to have it. Let them have a look it, and then you can give the statement to be interrogated. That would stop any anticipation on the list that you have. I do not want anybody to say that they could not interrogate the statement that you will issue.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I agree. I will give the Clerk’s office to make copies.

Tomorrow is a sitting day, is it not?

An hon. Senator: Yes.

Sen. (Eng.) Muriuki, I do not think that you will be prejudiced in any way if the answer is given tomorrow.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is better so that all the Members have copies. At some stage, he will still have come with an answer to part (b) ; what the criterion is.

Let us cross the bridge when we get to it. The answer to that statement is deferred to tomorrow afternoon. In the meantime, your statement shall be made available to the Senators through the Clerk’s office.

Next Statement! Is there any other pending statement? Proceed, Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, ooh, really? The Committee on Land and Natural Resources had undertaken to do two things. One, there was a question that I sought for on the Lifting of the Moratorium on Timber Harvesting in the Republic. The Cabinet Secretary in charge was supposed to come to a Committee of the whole House. That has not happened. As we do so, there are Kenyans who are harvesting timber in Mau forest. The scandal is yet to come. The second one is on Athi River Pollution in Machakos and Makueni counties.

July 22nd, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we have just consulted with the hon. Senator. On the second statement, which was on the pollution of Athi River in Machakos and Makueni, we issued the statement and the Senator made a request for the Committee to visit the site; which we accepted. I have just told him that we are available when we take the one month recess to make a visit there with him. We will liaise with him and, probably, agree on the appropriate dates.

Are you giving any timelines or you will agree?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we can agree with him on the exact dates. However, it should be within the recess period.

I am asking that for the purpose of the House. When shall we get a response? We have to have a record on when it is possible to have a response to these issues in the House.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, definitely that would be the first or second week after recess.

Do you want me to give you the first or the second week?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, the second.

Okay, the second Tuesday after resumption from recess. What is the problem?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the second issue on lifting of the moratorium on timber harvesting in the Republic of Kenya has not been answered. Sen. Khaniri has forgotten that there is something happening in the country.

You sought a statement?

Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I did. However, they answered the question unsatisfactorily.

What was the order?

The order from the Speaker was that the Cabinet Secretary should be summoned to the Senate to explain the reasons the moratorium on the timber harvesting was lifted.

July 22nd, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Sen. Khaniri does not seem to remember.

Sen. Khaniri, look at the HANSARD. Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. will assist you with the dates and then tomorrow afternoon, you should give an indication of when you may give the answer. It is an important issue. Is that okay?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, most obliged.

July 22nd, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Sen. Khaniri does not seem to remember.

Sen. Khaniri, look at the HANSARD. Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. will assist you with the dates and then tomorrow afternoon, you should give an indication of when you may give the answer. It is an important issue. Is that okay?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, most obliged.

Sen. (Prof.) Lesan, are you seeking the Floor?

But the statement was sought from the Chairperson of Committee on Agriculture, Livestock and Fisheries?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, when it was mentioned, the issue of payments of duties to KRA came up and it was supposed to be answered by the Chairman of the Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget.

Sen. Billow, are you aware of this? Was this in your docket?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am not aware. No question or request of statement in that regard has been forwarded to the attention of my Committee.

Sen. (Prof.) Lesan, my record shows, and I have it in front of me that you sought the statement on 29th of April and it was directed to the Committee on Agriculture, Livestock and Fisheries. The next annotation is that the task force formed to probe the matter is not yet properly in office as the Cabinet

July 22nd, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am not aware of what has transpired since I sought for the statement in the House. I only had one reply that the answer was not ready and that more time was given for the answer to be given. As regards to payment of duties to KRA, it was recommended that the Chairman of the Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget be involved.

By who?

July 22nd, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

I have told you what I have on record. Where is the Chairman of the Committee on Agriculture, Livestock and Fisheries?

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. This question was directed to my Committee. The answer was ready, but the day I was supposed to answer it, the Senator was not in. I ask your indulgence so that we can respond to it tomorrow.

Do you have anything at the moment?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the answer is ready, but I do not have it on my table now.

Will you deliver it tomorrow?

Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Sen. (Prof.) Lesan, is that okay?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, in the meantime, if I could be given the answer, it will be okay.

That is administrative. Is it okay you for the statement to be given tomorrow?

Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

I think that is the end of Statements.

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. There are two statements on the Order Paper that the Speaker ruled yesterday that I should give the answer today whether or not the Member who requested for them is in the House. We have been coming with these answers. They have been on the Order Paper for a couple of weeks and the Member was not in. Yesterday, the Speaker gave a ruling that it should be on the Order Paper and we should give the answers whether he is in or not.

Do you have the answers?

Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

I remember the Speaker making that ruling. Go ahead and give the answer to the statement if you are ready.

July 22nd, 2015 SENATE DEBATES CRITERIA USED IN ALLOCATION OF UWEZO FUND IN THE 47 COUNTIES

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the first statement was a request on Uwezo Fund sought by the Member for Tana River, Sen. Bule.

He sought the following;-

Sen. Wetangula, you are pressing the wrong button.

What is your point of order? The Senate Minority Leader (Sen.Wetangula) : On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I understand that there was a ruling from the Chair that the statement such as this can be given even in the absence of the questioner. If you look at this statement- I think we should not have rules of general application from the Chair.

The honorable questioner, the distinguished Senator for Tana River, has asked a question that is specific to his county, which means that he is the only Senator that would be competent to interrogate the answers given and what prompted him to ask the question. It is not fair because Sen. Bule is not a Senator who misses sittings, he is, probably, out of the country or he has something in the county. I do not think it will be too much to give him an opportunity so that the answer to the question is given for him to interrogate it adequately.

July 22nd, 2015 SENATE DEBATES CRITERIA USED IN ALLOCATION OF UWEZO FUND IN THE 47 COUNTIES

Sen. Wetangula, the option with that is one, and it is very simple. There is the option to drop the statement which we hardly ever do because we keep at tab of the statement. The other one is for the Chairman of the Committee to keep coming here with uncertainty.

Order, Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr! You are standing right in the line between me and the Senator I am addressing.

Yesterday, Sen. Billow, the Chairperson of the Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget rose to give that statement because it has been outstanding for quite sometimes. If I recall correctly, and the HANSARD could bear me out, the person who has sought the Statement was not here. The Speaker ruled that the Statement be issued this afternoon regardless of whether the questioner is here or not. For the Speaker to have made that statement, it means that he has no knowledge that the Senator is out of the country like you have suggested. This is because, under the Standing Orders, the Speaker should know whether he is out of the country or not.

Therefore, we have two options; either to drop the statement which is a property of the House or Sen. Billow issues it. I will go with the order that was issued by the Speaker because I think that was you, Sen. Wetangula, who said yesterday that the Speaker should not make orders or rulings in vain. I, therefore, do not see why this one should be in vain. It is also important that when Senators seek statements which are important for them and their counties; they should pursue them, like I see other Senators pursue their statements so rigorously.

Sen. Billow, you have the freedom to continue and give the statement.

Sen. Wetangula, you are pressing the wrong button.

What is your point of order? The Senate Minority Leader (Sen.Wetangula) : On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I understand that there was a ruling from the Chair that the statement such as this can be given even in the absence of the questioner. If you look at this statement- I think we should not have rules of general application from the Chair.

The honorable questioner, the distinguished Senator for Tana River, has asked a question that is specific to his county, which means that he is the only Senator that would be competent to interrogate the answers given and what prompted him to ask the question. It is not fair because Sen. Bule is not a Senator who misses sittings, he is, probably, out of the country or he has something in the county. I do not think it will be too much to give him an opportunity so that the answer to the question is given for him to interrogate it adequately.

July 22nd, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Sen. Wetangula, the option with that is one, and it is very simple. There is the option to drop the statement which we hardly ever do because we keep at tab of the statement. The other one is for the Chairman of the Committee to keep coming here with uncertainty.

Order, Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr! You are standing right in the line between me and the Senator I am addressing.

Yesterday, Sen. Billow, the Chairperson of the Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget rose to give that statement because it has been outstanding for quite sometimes. If I recall correctly, and the HANSARD could bear me out, the person who has sought the Statement was not here. The Speaker ruled that the Statement be issued this afternoon regardless of whether the questioner is here or not. For the Speaker to have made that statement, it means that he has no knowledge that the Senator is out of the country like you have suggested. This is because, under the Standing Orders, the Speaker should know whether he is out of the country or not.

Therefore, we have two options; either to drop the statement which is a property of the House or Sen. Billow issues it. I will go with the order that was issued by the Speaker because I think that was you, Sen. Wetangula, who said yesterday that the Speaker should not make orders or rulings in vain. I, therefore, do not see why this one should be in vain. It is also important that when Senators seek statements which are important for them and their counties; they should pursue them, like I see other Senators pursue their statements so rigorously.

Sen. Billow, you have the freedom to continue and give the statement.

Which previous one?

July 22nd, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

This is very different. It is specific to Tana River County.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is not specific to Tana River County. It concerns many other counties.

Sen. Ndiema, did you have a rider on it for Trans Nzoia County?

Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Is that correct, Sen. Billow?

July 22nd, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, there is only one part of this Statement that sought the criteria used to share money among the counties. In explaining the criteria used, I said that Annex 1, which is available and is a bulky document , provides the list of the funds which have been disbursed for the 2013/2014 Financial Year for each of the counties, if he is interested. However, it is not something that was requested.

The statement is very clear in the questions that had been sought. There is nothing general for any other counties. Except for question (a) and (b) , the rest is all specific to Tana River County

Sen. Kanainza, what is your point of order?

July 22nd, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Sen. Billow, I think that both Sen. Ndiema and Sen. Kanainza are right. If you look at what is on the Order Paper, it says that you are to give a statement regarding the Uwezo Fund allocation and expenditure across counties, including Tana River County. I assume that is the bulky documents that you say you have.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the request that was sent by the Senate to the Ministry is very specific as listed. Apart from question (a) , which is a general explanation of the allocation to the fund and (b) on the criteria, the rest are all specific. There is nothing else that has been forwarded to the Ministry to give a statement on. The bulky documents attached as Annexes are specifically referring to Tana River County and not any other county. The document on Tana River County alone is so bulky that I cannot even carry it. It gives a report of 392 groups and each group has over 10 people. Therefore, I may need a truck to bring for all the 47 counties.

Do you have the list?

I have the list for Tana River County on all the individuals who benefitted, in the specific projects, but not for the whole country.

Hon.Senators, I recall Sen. Billow saying this when the statement was first sought - correct me if I am wrong - that most of this information is available on the website. You may want it given, but I remember Sen. Billow telling Sen. Bule that he could get the information from the website of the relevant Ministry.

My point is that I do not want to protract an issue and burden the House with some issues like visiting the website and seeking a specific statement pertaining to your county of interest. That is the serious problem that I see. Most of this information is in the public domain.

July 22nd, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, sometimes you say that information is in the public domain and the Jubilee Government says they are digital. What is so difficult about providing the Chairperson with the information in a flash disk which can then be passed to the Senator who asked that question? Some of these Government websites are dysfunctional. We have our iPads here and some of them are dysfunctional.

When a Senator has raised an issue, it is very important that the Jubilee Government should rise to the occasion, be digital and provide the information digitally for the Senator.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I do not know why there is so much urgency in disposing of this issue even when the Senator who asked it is not here. Perhaps, we can refer to the HANSARD. We asked questions, the Chairman undertook to respond and they were not only specific to Tana River County. I seek your indulgence that we give him more time for the response to come in a manner that we requested and that we are also given time to interrogate it.

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Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is absolutely impossible to give a response next week. This is because looking at the one for Tana River County alone for one year, 352 groups benefited from Uwezo Fund. If you see what is written here per constituency then classified into youth, women and persons with disabilities and the list of projects, it is very thick. It is not practical that I will get this next week.

I urge Members to visit the Uwezo Fund website where you will get the data for your constituencies and counties. You can then ask questions if you have any. It is a tall order asking for the list of hundreds of thousands of every individual beneficiary just to see their names. The list is here and this is just for one county. I think it will be really---

Do you have something like that for all the counties that interrogated you?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I do not have.

Then, this matter has to be deferred until such time as the Chairperson has the list and that can only be after the recess.

In the meantime, I will task the Clerk’s Office to look at the HANSARD and see exactly what was required of the Chairperson of the Committee.

If Sen. Ndiema is correct, then the Question shall be responded to in the terms of those others who may have ridden on it. Otherwise, we defer the response to the third Tuesday after the recess.

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Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, that is okay.

So, ordered. Do you have a response for Statement (c) on the Order Paper? I would like to defer it if there are riders on it too.

July 22nd, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Does any Senator have an interest in this Statement like Senators had on the other one?

No.

You can issue the statement and it will be very nice if you summarized.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, his first request was to state the balance of money earmarked for CDF in Tana River County for 2012/2013. The allocation was Kshs282 million, but by 2013 March when elections were held, the balance was Kshs141 million in the CDF accounts of the whole county. The number of projects that were completed by March 2013 were 625. The total cost of money that went to Tana River County since CDF started was Kshs1,159,187,492.

There were 65 projects costing Kshs158 million which were incomplete by March 2013 when we went for elections. The amount of money allocated to CDF per constituency for the entire Tana River County in 2013/2014 and 2014/2015 is Kshs558.5 million for the three constituencies – Garsen, Galole and Bura.

The amount of money that has been spent on development out of the total amount of CDF for Garsen, Galole and Bura is Kshs279 million, Kshs251 and Kshs264 million, respectively.

A detailed analysis has been provided on which specific developments projects in health, water and so on and so forth. Clearly, 61.6 per cent of that money which is Kshs518 million was spent on education and the rest goes to the other activities. This is the amount of money used for bursaries, the beneficiaries and criteria. He wanted the whole list and it is here. The total amount used for bursaries was only Kshs37.49 million and the amount disbursed is given there and the list is available in the Annex 2 here.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, lastly, the amount of money that has been allocated to the counties for 2015/106 for Garsen, Bura and Galole combined is Kshs349 million.

That is the brief summary of the statement and the attachments are available.

Hon. Members, that is the end of Statements.

July 22nd, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, his first request was to state the balance of money earmarked for CDF in Tana River County for 2012/2013. The allocation was Kshs282 million, but by 2013 March when elections were held, the balance was Kshs141 million in the CDF accounts of the whole county. The number of projects that were completed by March 2013 were 625. The total cost of money that went to Tana River County since CDF started was Kshs1,159,187,492.

There were 65 projects costing Kshs158 million which were incomplete by March 2013 when we went for elections. The amount of money allocated to CDF per constituency for the entire Tana River County in 2013/2014 and 2014/2015 is Kshs558.5 million for the three constituencies – Garsen, Galole and Bura.

The amount of money that has been spent on development out of the total amount of CDF for Garsen, Galole and Bura is Kshs279 million, Kshs251 and Kshs264 million, respectively.

A detailed analysis has been provided on which specific developments projects in health, water and so on and so forth. Clearly, 61.6 per cent of that money which is Kshs518 million was spent on education and the rest goes to the other activities. This is the amount of money used for bursaries, the beneficiaries and criteria. He wanted the whole list and it is here. The total amount used for bursaries was only Kshs37.49 million and the amount disbursed is given there and the list is available in the Annex 2 here.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, lastly, the amount of money that has been allocated to the counties for 2015/106 for Garsen, Bura and Galole combined is Kshs349 million.

That is the brief summary of the statement and the attachments are available.

Hon. Members, that is the end of Statements.

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Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to congratulate Sen. Mohamud for bringing this Bill; the Universities (Amendment) Bill (Senate Bill No. 31 of 2014) . This Act will be in line with devolution. We would like to see services, including education, reaching every person at county and local levels.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is important to note that it is not just a matter of ensuring that education at the highest level is devolved in the spirit of devolution.

July 22nd, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

July 22nd, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for this opportunity. I would like to start by congratulating Sen. Halima for bringing this amendment. There has been a law that requires the CUE to establish universities at the counties but what has been lacking is the link between the CUE and the county governments. What this amendment seeks to do is to bring in that link, so that as we set up universities in the counties, the governors and those involved in our counties are also involved in some way.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the location of universities has traditionally been skewed in favour of certain parts of this country. If you look at the older universities, University of Nairobi is in Nairobi County, Moi University, Uasin Gishu, Kenyatta University in Nairobi County, Jomo Kenyatta University of Agriculture and Technology, in Kiambu County and Maseno University in Kisumu County, even though I know that my good friend from Vihiga claims that it should be in Vihiga County.

Certain areas have benefited from the location of universities. I went to Moi University which opened up a significant part and created a lot of opportunities in the Uasin Gishu County economy. It was positioned in a small village called Kesses. Moi University over the years has really transformed and improved the fortunes of the people of that region. When we make it a requirement that we should have universities in all the counties, we are opening up these immense opportunities to all parts of this country.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, county governments have attempted to set up universities as flagship projects. Unfortunately, they have encountered opposition. Of course, when they fall back to the Constitution, it says that higher education is a national Government function. So, even in cases where the governors have felt that they have got adequate land and resources to set up universities, it has not been possible for them to initiate and proceed with those noble ideas.

Members of the National Assembly have also attempted to use the Constituencies Development Fund (CDF) to try and come up with universities at the counties. In Homa Bay County, for example, we have seen the Members of the National Assembly coming together and contributing some money out of the CDF kitty, so that out of eight constituencies within the county, they can start with some seed capital. But a university is not a cheap affair. You cannot start one with Kshs80 million, even if each constituency was to contribute Kshs10 million to the initiative.

I agree with a Senator who has spoken here, that when we say that the CUE shall establish universities in all the counties, we must also ensure that Parliament collectively allocates resources and provides the requisite funds to see to it that these universities can be set up. We are attempting to set up a constituent college in Homa Bay County called Tom Mboya University College. This college seeks to immortalize Tom Mboya, one of the great sons that Homa Bay has produced. The thinking is that when we set up a university at the county level, then it should focus on local problems, research and policy that are out to address the problems faced within that county.

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Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me a chance to add my voice to this Bill. First, I take the opportunity to congratulate Sen. Halima for bringing such an important Bill that affects most of us. This is considering that with education, everything is possible; we can improve the economy, and ourselves, socially and career-wise. I would like to refer to one of the objectives of university education as stated in the Bill which is “Support and contribute to the realization of national, economic and social development.” This is a very important point in the development of the economy of the country and the counties. I am looking at university education as playing

July 22nd, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Is there any other Senator seeking the Floor?

Sen. G.G., are you “Temporary Card No2?” Do you not have your card today?

I have a card but it has a problem

July 22nd, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

I shifted to two places and I had to ask a Clerk-at-the-Table to assist me.

Would you like to contribute to the debate?

Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Please, proceed Sen. G.G. Kariuki

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the intention of this Bill is very unique and important. I congratulate Sen. Halima for bringing this kind of a Bill. I think that she took a lot of time to think about it. She looked at education in totality and came out with a Bill that can guide or improve this country. Our intention is to improve our education and most importantly, devolve university education. The decision is going to be shared by the Commission on University Education (CUE) and the counties. We can have all the universities we want, but I do not think that universities should be treated as

July 22nd, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

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Thank you, Senator. Sen. Mohamud, you may now wish to reply.

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That brings us to the close of the debate on the Second Reading of The Universities (Amendment) Bill (Senate Bill No. 31 of 2014) . As you have correctly stated under Standing Order No.54, I will defer the putting of the question to such a day that we have the threshold on which we can then have a Division on this Bill.

July 22nd, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

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Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I beg to move:-

That, the Parliamentary Powers and Privileges Bill (Senate Bill No. 15 of 2014) be read a Second Time.

This Bill replaces the National Assembly Powers and Privileges Bill which is Cap.6 of the Laws of Kenya. For a long time, the country has been operating under a single chamber parliament, but with the advent of the current Constitution, it has become necessary to replace Cap.6 of the National Assembly Powers and Privileges Act with a new law that takes into consideration the bicameral nature of the Parliament of the Republic of Kenya.

The first aim of this Bill is to update the parliamentary system in law and to appreciate that we now have a bicameral Parliament but essentially the powers, privileges and immunities of Members of Parliament remain the same. However, there is a second aim of this Bill which is to modernize and update the powers, privileges and immunities of Members of Parliament in either House of Parliament by putting into consideration a number of things that have been found necessary by usages and practices over the years and the experiences we have had as a Parliament in the last 50 years. There are things which have happened in this Parliament which have necessitated us to look at the law again.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir Members will recall that on 18th December, 2014, there was a very acrimonious and ugly incident in the National Assembly and some of the things that happened there were unprecedented. Therefore, there is need to re-look at the entire issue of the conduct of Members while in the precincts of Parliament to avoid a situation where disagreements on legislative or other mandate of parliamentarians

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Order, Sen. (Eng.) Muriuki! You have made a very important observation. For the record, I would like to state that the Speaker shall pronounce himself at the appropriate time on what happens in that regard, concerning your observation and a ruling as you have requested. Although, there is the HANSARD, some things may require to be responded to immediately, especially where a Bill has been exhausted. I know that the Mover is not very far. I hope that he is listening. He better make an effort to ensure that he is here in person or a person designated by him should be taking notes on behalf of the Members who are contributing.

Proceed, Sen. (Eng.) Muriuki.

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Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I rise to support this Bill because its intention is straightforward. It is to repeal the National Assembly Powers and Privileges Act which is outdated because of the bicameral nature of Parliament. Parliamentary privilege is a feature of democracy. There is the Westminster model and the French model. This is something that can be misunderstood, that we, the MPs, are making ourselves more special than we already are. I want to assure the nation that parliamentary privilege is an important feature of democracy because it protects the people who are elected to represent the common man; it allows and gives them a voice so that they can avoid being intimidated by the executive. In fact, parliamentary privilege does not create an elite but it protects the people from the elite.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the history of parliamentary privilege is well documented and we have seen, in some countries like South Africa, that during the Apartheid regime, some of the people who fought against segregation and apartheid, used parliamentary privilege to talk about some of the things that they could not talk about openly outside, because if they did, they would be arrested summarily.

The effect of that was that the media was allowed to report anything that was spoken in Parliament. Through that, the freedom fighters in countries like South Africa took advantage of parliamentary privilege to say things and change an obscene system that put blacks at the bottom of the economic, social and political pyramid. Therefore, parliamentary privilege is a good thing and when we talk about this Bill, it is not that we are trying to “fatten” the already “fattened” Members of Parliament.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, President Obama is coming to Kenya in a few days and there has been a lot of debate as to why he will not address a Joint Sitting of Parliament---

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That generally covers all the Members of Parliament. I have also heard statements to the effect that those who the gods

July 22nd, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I just want to clarify that I could be talking about the public perception, that Parliament is already very privileged and the word “fat” is just to illustrate the point.

The debates on why President Obama is not coming to address us in Parliament--- We have not received any official communication. I received a card yesterday, in which I was asked to confirm whether I will attend a speech by the President of the United States of America (USA) , which I did. I then received an email response instructing me to go and line up at Kasarani Stadium from 9.00 a.m. to 5.00 p.m. to pick a card and that I must also bring evidence that I am who I say I am and that I cannot send anybody to pick that card for me.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, it would have been so easy for the President of the USA to dedicate 30 minutes or one hour out of his itinerary to come and address this House, because this is a distinct arm of Government.

That generally covers all the Members of Parliament. I have also heard statements to the effect that those who the gods

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Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I just want to clarify that I could be talking about the public perception, that Parliament is already very privileged and the word “fat” is just to illustrate the point.

The debates on why President Obama is not coming to address us in Parliament--- We have not received any official communication. I received a card yesterday, in which I was asked to confirm whether I will attend a speech by the President of the United States of America (USA) , which I did. I then received an email response instructing me to go and line up at Kasarani Stadium from 9.00 a.m. to 5.00 p.m. to pick a card and that I must also bring evidence that I am who I say I am and that I cannot send anybody to pick that card for me.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, it would have been so easy for the President of the USA to dedicate 30 minutes or one hour out of his itinerary to come and address this House, because this is a distinct arm of Government.

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There being no other contributor, I now want to call upon the Mover to reply.

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There being no other contributor, I now want to call upon the Mover to reply.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to thank all those who have contributed to the Bill. Even as Sen. (Eng.) Muriuki was talking about my departure, I was watching him and he has spoken well.

With those few remarks, I beg to reply. Given the numbers I request you to defer the putting of the Question to a time that you may determine.

I would like at this point in time to, first of all, recognize and inform the Members that this is a Bill concerning counties. To make it even more clearer, if it was not a Bill concerning counties, it would not have come here. The decision as to whether it is a Bill concerning counties or not has already been made and so it is not a subject of debate here.

I want to bring to the attention of the House the election date opinion of the Supreme Court which said that anything that touches on election, the welfare, and the well being of the Senate concerns counties. That is why the Powers and Privileges Act is part and parcel of the Bills that concern counties. Otherwise it would completely have been ridiculous if the Senate was to legislate itself or be locked out of issues that would concern Senate itself because Senators are the ones protecting counties.

I want to accede to the request by Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki on the question of postponing the voting to the time we shall agree to, as Senators, in terms of voting as will be designated by the Speaker.

It is now time to interrupt the business of the Senate. The Senate stands adjourned until tomorrow Thursday, 23rd July, 2015 at 2.30 p.m.

The Senate adjourned at 6.30 p.m.