Wednesday, 18th September, 2019

Order, Senators. I will apply Standing Order No. 40 and direct that, first, for the convenience of the House, we dispense the item appearing in Order No.11. Then, we will go back to Statements.

Senate Minority Leader, approach the Chair first if you do not mind.

As the Mover of the item in Order No.11 is preparing, I direct that we continue with Statements.

Let us have the distinguished Senator for Vihiga, Sen. Khaniri.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I thank you for this opportunity. I rise pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order No. 47 (1) to make a Statement on an issue of general topical concern regarding the successive failure of county governments to meet the own source revenue targets.

This Statement could not have come at a better time. It is coming when we have just passed the Country Allocation of Revenue Act (CARA) . I know that there are number of countries that were adversely affected, in that, they got a lower allocation of resources than what they were allocated last year, simply because they did not meet their targets in own source revenue collection. This Statement will interest the Senator for Mombasa, Senator for Bungoma and many others.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, before the establishment of county governments in 2013, some of the current counties were city, county, town, municipal or urban councils. These councils collected revenue and offered services to the people under the then Ministry of Local Government. One of the greatest wins for the people of Kenya in the Constitution of Kenya, 2010 is devolution, as we all know. Hence, from 2013, the governance of Kenya was divided into two levels; the national Government and the county governments.

The Fourth Schedule to our Constitution distributes the functions between the two levels of government. Governments all over the world collect revenue to enable them offer services to the public. This is the same case in Kenya. Even though counties are entitled to equitable share of revenue raised nationally, they are also obligated to collect own source revenue.

It has been observed that counties have generally failed to collect the projected own source revenue since the dawn of devolution in 2013. In most cases, counties are underperforming when compared to the defunct local governments. This situation has been blamed on a number of factors such as over-projection, administrative inefficiency, gaps in policy and legislation, lack of support from the public, and maybe, corruption.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, Article 209(3) of the Constitution gives counties the power to collect revenue through property taxes, entertainment taxes, and any other taxes as authorized by Parliament. Further, Article 207(1) also dictates that all counties should establish a County Revenue Fund, where all revenue collected by the county governments should be deposited. The reasoning and advantage of OSR is that, in addition to encouraging financial independence of counties, it will provide more resources for development.

I believe that after six years of devolution, there are many lessons that counties have learnt, which are crucial in improving revenue collection. There have been a number of proposals such as enlisting the services of the Kenya Revenue Authority to collect these levies, fees and taxes on behalf of counties, automation of the whole revenue collection process, outsourcing and enacting enabling legislations and policies in the counties.

It should not be forgotten that the tax burden on citizens is generally heavy across the board, hence counties need to be innovative in their revenue raising schemes. We are all alive to allegations of double taxation on the common mwananchi, while the wealthy go scot-free.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Senate, as the protector of devolution, has a role to play in interrogating this state of affairs and propose solutions. Some of the proposals that I believe the Senate can constructively engage the counties on with regard to increasing revenue collection, is transparency and fidelity to the Constitution on the matter of own- source revenue collection.

Most counties collect revenue, but the money is never deposited in the County Revenue Fund as espoused in the Constitution. What this means, therefore, is that, the money collected is either banked in other accounts or never deposited in the county, and hence, not protected. It is pilfered by county staff.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, counties should also undertake public participation on the issue of revenue collection. Public goodwill is important because most people evade

taxes due to the negative perception created. The public should be encouraged to participate in the process of making legislation concerning revenue and the county governments need to be open on their expenditure of public funds. Counties also need to urgently address public concerns on issues such as double and expensive taxation.

In addition, counties need to conduct proper research on the possible tax opportunities in their respective jurisdictions. Currently, according to their budgets, most counties cannot exist without funding from the national Government because the own source revenue is not even 10 per cent of their total annual budget. It is also wise for counties to create an enabling business environment for the public to engage in economic activities that will in turn enable them to pay taxes.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, if we do not take the necessary steps as the Senate in conjunction with the county assemblies, to ensure the protection of county funds, then devolution will fail under our watch. Normally, it is expected that devolution will improve revenue collection. It definitely has, only that the revenue thus collected is neither registered nor deposited in the right county accounts. Most counties open and operate numerous accounts where local revenue collection is deposited. This is wrong and in deliberate disregard of the law.

County assemblies should be encouraged to improve oversight over local revenue collected. Furthermore, the proposed formula for revenue allocation by the Commission on Revenue Allocation (CRA) has, as one of its objectives, the promotion of county fiscal performance and rewarding of counties for optimizing revenue collection.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, if counties increase own source revenue collection, they will benefit twofold - directly from increased funds and from grants from the equitable share.

Thank you.

Very well. As directed yesterday, we will be raising hands when we want to catch the Speaker’s eye. I can see so many hands up.

An hon. Member: I was the first.

Order. I have seen the hands and I will give a few hon. Members a chance to make a few comments. I am just reminded of the House of Commons and we are doing better than they normally do.

Proceed Sen. Seneta and be brief.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity to add my voice to this Statement. From the onset, I want to congratulate Commissioner Sen. Khaniri for that important thought.

I want to point out three issues: One, revenue collection in our counties is a very important issue that needs a depth discussion in this House. This revenue is the monies that Kenyans need to go back to the service that they are given. One of the things that is missing in our counties is lack of proper systems, in terms of how this revenue is collected; how it is banked and how it is accounted for. Many of our counties employ members of staff who are not competent and transparent in the collection of the revenue.

If you go to our streets in the small urban areas in our counties, you get people with receipt books that lack a stamp from the county or one that is not clear on how these monies are channeled to the county treasury.

Public participation is also very important. Kenyans need to understand why they should pay these taxes and how much they are paying. The issue of involvement of citizens is very important. I wish the counties can bring on board the citizens in terms of giving them information on these taxes that are being collected. Citizens in our counties are harassed every other day because of either single business permits or all other taxes that are supposed to be paid that they are not aware of.

Lastly, is the issue of double taxation. Business people are being charged all manner of taxes that are also taxed by the national Government as well as the county governments. Therefore, I agree with Sen. Khaniri that it is high time that we got policies that guide this process because revenue is very important, but should be equally collected in a transparent manner. They should also give back services to the citizens.

Sen. Seneta, you took a lot of time. This is not your Statement. If you were passionate about it, you would have brought the Statement.

it ends up in people’s pockets and private accounts. The institutions of governance in this country have badly let down the country. The office of the Director of Public Prosecution (DPP), the Auditor-General, the Director of Criminal Investigations (DCI) and all these institutions that ought to be looking after public resources, not to forget our own watchdog committees in Houses of assemblies and Houses of Parliament. They can do better.

There was a county that had 50 different accounts in which they were depositing own source revenue. This is causing confusion so that they can be able to steal the money. This has to be checked by the assemblies, this House and other institutions.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, more importantly, as we push for more revenue to be collected, we must guard against fleecing the ordinary people in the villages. I have seen in some counties that mama mboga and boda boda riders are taxed on a daily basis. In other counties, they pay once a month while in other counties they pay once a year. This House has a duty - I want to urge Sen. Khaniri to move beyond his Statement and look at what law of general application of counties we can bring to give general guidance on own source revenue collection, especially on common user activities like boda boda, mama mboga and others.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, lastly, the issue of punishing counties for failing to collect revenues to their target is punitive, unreasonable and should be relooked at. The monies that go to the counties for the ordinary people that we represent for healthcare and agriculture; if a Governor is reckless or incompetent in collecting taxes, why take away money being allocated from the national Government for facilities that reach the ordinary person? We must find a way of dealing with errand Governors and protecting the people in the counties.

Thank you.

it ends up in people’s pockets and private accounts. The institutions of governance in this country have badly let down the country. The office of the Director of Public Prosecution (DPP), the Auditor-General, the Director of Criminal Investigations (DCI) and all these institutions that ought to be looking after public resources, not to forget our own watchdog committees in Houses of assemblies and Houses of Parliament. They can do better.

There was a county that had 50 different accounts in which they were depositing own source revenue. This is causing confusion so that they can be able to steal the money. This has to be checked by the assemblies, this House and other institutions.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, more importantly, as we push for more revenue to be collected, we must guard against fleecing the ordinary people in the villages. I have seen in some counties that mama mboga and boda boda riders are taxed on a daily basis. In other counties, they pay once a month while in other counties they pay once a year. This House has a duty - I want to urge Sen. Khaniri to move beyond his Statement and look at what law of general application of counties we can bring to give general guidance on own source revenue collection, especially on common user activities like boda boda, mama mboga and others.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, lastly, the issue of punishing counties for failing to collect revenues to their target is punitive, unreasonable and should be relooked at. The monies that go to the counties for the ordinary people that we represent for healthcare and agriculture; if a Governor is reckless or incompetent in collecting taxes, why take away money being allocated from the national Government for facilities that reach the ordinary person? We must find a way of dealing with errand Governors and protecting the people in the counties.

Thank you.

Time is up, Sen. Wetangula.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I do not want to repeat what other Senators have said. However, I have noted that another challenge that Sen. Khaniri should also include is that there are some assets that are under-valued in revenue collection. For instance, in my county and Kericho County we have huge tea plantations but when you check what is collected from them, it is very low. Therefore, we would like to ask the Members of County Assemblies to come up with Bills on the re-evaluation of some assets so that they may increase taxation on them.

Some counties have got huge resources, for example, in Taita Taveta County, they have some animal reserves. However, the taxes that the counties are collecting from them are so little based on valuation done immediately after Independence or some years back. Therefore, I think that some assets should be re-evaluated to make sure that new taxation is applied accordingly.

Thank you.

Sen. (Dr.) Zani.

chunk of that shareable revenue goes to recurrent budget rather than development budget. Therefore, it is very important to bring up an idea to have own source revenue.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir the own source revenue for Kitui County stands at Kshs324 million against a target of Kshs500 million. They are at 65 per cent of acquiring or getting to their specific target, but there is a problem. My point is that there is already a Bill in this House, it is an amendment to the Public Finance Management Act (PFM) that this House is already seized off that addresses the issue of coming up with a regulatory system that brings together the Controller of Budget, Kenya Revenue Authority and other key players.

We will discuss this within the House so that they get together and come up with a system that is going to be shared across various counties, mobilise and put very well so that the collection of this revenue can be well-managed and so that there is a pattern and standardization across the counties. Therefore, if we are able to get to that point where we can make that amendment successfully as a House and be able to push this agenda, so that there is more regularity, standardization and efficiency in own source revenue, that will help counties.

Thank you.

chunk of that shareable revenue goes to recurrent budget rather than development budget. Therefore, it is very important to bring up an idea to have own source revenue.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir the own source revenue for Kitui County stands at Kshs324 million against a target of Kshs500 million. They are at 65 per cent of acquiring or getting to their specific target, but there is a problem. My point is that there is already a Bill in this House, it is an amendment to the Public Finance Management Act (PFM) that this House is already seized off that addresses the issue of coming up with a regulatory system that brings together the Controller of Budget, Kenya Revenue Authority and other key players.

We will discuss this within the House so that they get together and come up with a system that is going to be shared across various counties, mobilise and put very well so that the collection of this revenue can be well-managed and so that there is a pattern and standardization across the counties. Therefore, if we are able to get to that point where we can make that amendment successfully as a House and be able to push this agenda, so that there is more regularity, standardization and efficiency in own source revenue, that will help counties.

Thank you.

Thank you Sen. (Dr.) Zani. I note that today you chose to use the English language. Well, no controversies.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I will be brief. I would like to congratulate the Commission on Revenue Allocation for bringing the financial index. If they did not do that, it would encourage counties to over-estimate their own source revenue. If they continue doing that, they will always have problems and that is part of corruption that has been stated.

What I remember is that in the old times when we had county councils, some of them used to collect a lot of revenue. The people who usually collected the money were tax collectors and the receipts had no numbers. As a result, you would find that the tax collector was a very rich man while the Chairman of the county council was very poor. As the Governor for West Pokot usually says: “They are fat, round and short because of the money they eat from the public”.

Order, Sen. (Dr.) Ali. Wind up neatly.

You can do better than that, Senator for Wajir County.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, they are usually fat because they eat a lot of money which is not theirs. I think we should encourage our Members of the County Assemblies to make sure that governors who over-estimate and put in their budgets monies which they do not have, and bring a lot of pending Bills, that practice should not be encouraged.

Thank you.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I remember very well that we dealt with a legislation in this House that talked about outside advertising. We realize that yesterday we concluded a very lengthy battle with our colleagues from the National Assembly, some who probably do not understand the reason why we are here when they go out there and utter all manner of nasty words about this House.

What we ought to do is to guide these county governments on how they can be able to enhance their own source revenue. One of the areas which is very important - I hope that treasury will pursue this - there is no reason as to why, currently, we are dealing a lot with cash. We should come up with a legislation that encourages every business in this country to transact electronically so that we are able to tell how much is being collected. When we had the city councils or the county councils in the past, the chairman of the council and the clerk were very aggressive in making sure that everyone had paid plot rates.

As I speak, we still have a battle in Narok County. Members of the business community went to court and said that they do not want to change from being a town to a municipality because it will broaden the tax collection. As the Senate of this Republic, instead of just pointing fingers at the county governments and saying that they are not raising more or the money they raise is being misused, it is time we developed a legislation that will ensure that we use technology.

We normally go to benchmark in other countries like Estonia which is a very small country. In Tallinn, which is the Capital City of Estonia, every single building is numbered and the number of businesses being operated are known. When the authorities go to collect taxes, they know that, for example, from building 1 to 1,000, there are about 10,000 businesses. Therefore, they can develop their accounts properly and indicate how much is being raised. So, this Statement is very important.

As I conclude, I would like to encourage Sen. Khaniri to develop this into legislation that will ensure that when we sit here, we can easily know how much money comes from each county.

I thank you.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I remember very well that we dealt with a legislation in this House that talked about outside advertising. We realize that yesterday we concluded a very lengthy battle with our colleagues from the National Assembly, some who probably do not understand the reason why we are here when they go out there and utter all manner of nasty words about this House.

What we ought to do is to guide these county governments on how they can be able to enhance their own source revenue. One of the areas which is very important - I hope that treasury will pursue this - there is no reason as to why, currently, we are dealing a lot with cash. We should come up with a legislation that encourages every business in this country to transact electronically so that we are able to tell how much is being collected. When we had the city councils or the county councils in the past, the chairman of the council and the clerk were very aggressive in making sure that everyone had paid plot rates.

As I speak, we still have a battle in Narok County. Members of the business community went to court and said that they do not want to change from being a town to a municipality because it will broaden the tax collection. As the Senate of this Republic, instead of just pointing fingers at the county governments and saying that they are not raising more or the money they raise is being misused, it is time we developed a legislation that will ensure that we use technology.

We normally go to benchmark in other countries like Estonia which is a very small country. In Tallinn, which is the Capital City of Estonia, every single building is numbered and the number of businesses being operated are known. When the authorities go to collect taxes, they know that, for example, from building 1 to 1,000, there are about 10,000 businesses. Therefore, they can develop their accounts properly and indicate how much is being raised. So, this Statement is very important.

As I conclude, I would like to encourage Sen. Khaniri to develop this into legislation that will ensure that when we sit here, we can easily know how much money comes from each county.

I thank you.

You can continue advising the Senator quietly.

Let us have the distinguished Senator for Kericho County.

The second issue is that counties need to check and regularly update their land value roll. The amount of money that counties can collect from land taxes is enough to fund the operations of many of our county governments.

What Sen. (Dr.) Langat shared with those of us who come from tea growing areas is that---. For example, in my own county, the land value roll that is used to build the multinationals that occupy huge tracks of land in our county was last updated in 1994.

This year I challenged our Governor to update it so that we know the exact value of that particular land and ensure that the multinationals pay land rates that are commensurate to the value of land that they occupy. Right now, they pay only Kshs220 per acre for land that is close to Kshs10 million per acre. I would wish to challenge our colleagues from Kitui County Assembly who are here to ensure---.

The second issue is that counties need to check and regularly update their land value roll. The amount of money that counties can collect from land taxes is enough to fund the operations of many of our county governments.

What Sen. (Dr.) Langat shared with those of us who come from tea growing areas is that---. For example, in my own county, the land value roll that is used to build the multinationals that occupy huge tracks of land in our county was last updated in 1994.

This year I challenged our Governor to update it so that we know the exact value of that particular land and ensure that the multinationals pay land rates that are commensurate to the value of land that they occupy. Right now, they pay only Kshs220 per acre for land that is close to Kshs10 million per acre. I would wish to challenge our colleagues from Kitui County Assembly who are here to ensure---.

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Is my neighbour in order---.

Who is your neighbour and where do you live?

Around this neighbourhood. Is the Senator for Kericho County in order to blame the National Treasury, yet this House handed over a piece of legislation on our mandate? Are we becoming a House of lamentations or are we just sleeping on the job?

Under what Standing Order is that?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, allow me to school my neighbour later on Standing Orders after I am done with my presentation.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, allow me to school my neighbour later on Standing Orders after I am done with my presentation.

Which neighbour again? What is this neighbour business, Sen. Cheruiyot?

collect, we should have a percentage to go to county assemblies to fund operations. I will move an amendment to the PFM Act.

I thank you.

collect, we should have a percentage to go to county assemblies to fund operations. I will move an amendment to the PFM Act.

I thank you.

Hon. Senators, I know everyone wants to speak, but we do not have infinite time. I find this matter extremely important for the work we do here. I would like to hear if there are further comments from the Committee that is involved but I cannot see the Chairperson here. I am saying that because of what the Senator for Kericho County has just said because it is not just enough to discuss Statements here.

Sen. Cheruiyot, other than what you have told us, is there anything you are doing about own source revenue at the moment?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, unfortunately, we are waiting for the Bill to come from the National Assembly. Right now, there is no Bill before our Committee or even a legislative proposal.

What prevents you from re- introducing your Bill, now that the gentleman’s agreement you had made with the Executive has not been honored?

Order Sen. Omanga!

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I am actually a Member of the Committee. After I spoke and sat down, I remembered that there is a Bill that was brought by the distinguished Sen. (Dr.) Zani that seeks to give effect to all these issues that we are canvassing.

That Bill has been dealt with at the Committee level. It is awaiting public participation and then it will be brought to the Floor. George Khaniri, the Senator for Vihiga County should liaise with Sen. (Dr.) Zani. All Members with issues pertaining to the same can also do so in order to enrich this Bill.

On a point of information, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I wanted to inform the House that the court barred the County Public Accounts and Investments Committee (CPAIC) from looking at own source revenue and limited that to the county assemblies. The Senate will only look at the money that is given to the counties by the national Government.

I appreciate Sen. Khaniri for bringing this Statement. I wanted that information so as to know the kind of directive to give. At this juncture, I do not find it critical to refer the matter to a Committee for further action. As Sen. Wetangula stated, it appears that there is already a legislative endeavour that is on the way.

I appreciate Sen. Khaniri for bringing this Statement. I wanted that information so as to know the kind of directive to give. At this juncture, I do not find it critical to refer the matter to a Committee for further action. As Sen. Wetangula stated, it appears that there is already a legislative endeavour that is on the way.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I oblige with your ruling. Sen. (Dr.) Zani has already shared with me a soft copy of the Bill. I am going through it and will add some input into that Bill.

Thank you, Sen. Khaniri.

Hon. Senators, I would like to acknowledge the presence, in the Public Gallery this afternoon, of visiting students and teachers from Muslim Primary School, Kitui County.

I welcome them to the Senate of the Republic of Kenya. I thank you.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, Standing Order 51 (1) (a) provides that a Committee chairperson may make a Statement relating to a matter for which the Committee is responsible.

In fulfilment of this provision, I wish to make a Statement in regard to the public and stakeholder engagement on the legislative proposal on the Mung Bean Bill held today, 18th September, 2019.

The public hearing forum was well attended, having representation from the County Executive, the county Assembly, co-operative in the mung bean industry and farmers. The Committee received numerous views on the proposed Mung Bean Bill, including the following-

Hon. Senators, I see no interest on that issue. The Senator for Kitui had an interest on the Bill but is currently not in the Chamber. So, let us proceed.

Let us move to Order No.11. If time allows, we will come back to the statements later.

Next Order.

Diplomatically is the word.

Diplomatically is the word.

Very unusual today,

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am looking forward to the outcome of the work they will do, rather than what has happened in the past.

What is it, Sen. Omanga?

Order! Is there a point of order? There is none. An hon. Senator: She is contributing.

What are you contributing on?

It was an accident.

There is no Motion before us yet. The Senate Minority Leader (

Proceed, Senate Minority Leader. The Senate Minority Leader (Sen. Orengo) :

Bado yuko Kilifi County.

Order, Sen. Zawadi!

counties or was put before us as evidence that they had been signed by counties in relation to nearly 21 counties, were only available on the first and last pages.

It is normally quite a bit tricky for those who deal with documents. People are often made to sign documents without thinking of the consequences or signing the last page of a document without knowing the content. More than 21 counties had signed this MoU but had not read its contents or the contents were not made available to them. Some 16 counties in which all the MOUs that had been signed were in relation to Mandera County. For example, Nyeri County Governor signed, but the document did not talk about Nyeri County but Mandera County. That happened to 19 counties.

In fact, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, to some extent, when you look at the counties which had signed, the Governor should be put to account because when a document bears the name of Mandera County and you are a Governor of a specific county and you have staff and legal counsel and you still sign a document that has nothing to do with your county, that was regrettable.

The copies of MOUs related to Garissa, Samburu, Bomet, Kakamega and Vihiga counties were not made available. I think these were counties which actually outrightly refused to sign these MOUs. I remember specifically Bomet was such a county.

If you look at the amount of the value of the contract in the total sum of USD432 million, which together with other facilities translated to more than Kshs38 billion, that was just an initial figure because there were variations. Under the scheme, each county was paying Kshs95 million annually. This sum was raised upwards. In fact, as we speak, it could be more. It was revised upwards to Kshs200 million, coming to a cumulative figure of Kshs9.4 billion per year. That is from the initial Kshs4.5 billion.

All these facts put together show that there was something wrong in the manner in which this matter had been handled; how the negotiations took place, the companies that were involved, the tendering process and the execution of the tenders.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, as we speak, this is a matter that is still bogging counties. On paper, the national Government will pretend that this is part of the money that is being made available to the counties. Our Committee on Health went round to some counties and there were some counties that had not received these equipment. Other counties had received but had not installed the equipment. Where they had been installed, there was no electricity. Where there was electricity and they were installed, there were no personnel. There were so many logistical problems. Sufficient work was not done in thinking through how the entire project was going to be implemented. It has resulted to the loss of revenue and burdened counties with debt that is not justifiable.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, as I conclude, this Committee has its work cut for it. As you can see, the first name on the list is Sen. (Dr.) Mbito, who is the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Health, together with his Vice Chairperson, Sen. (Dr.) Ali.

We thought that keeping them there was important for purposes of institutional memory. There are many documents already available to this Committee. Some of them have gone round to several counties and that institutional memory was necessary to enable this Committee do its work properly.

In conclusion, this is one of the projects where I normally say that a lot of corruption in this country is not done at the time when it is being implemented; it is done

Proceed, Senate Minority Leader. The Senate Minority Leader (

some constitutional changes that do not require the referendum, we will still remain in the dog house. Normally, for constitutions to be exhaustive, is very difficult.

Constitutions are not made for good people, since they do not need Constitutions. If you have got good people, you do not need a Constitution that is this big; even 10 pages will do. The old Constitution was not as big as this, but because the good people were becoming fewer in Kenya, we had to make these many pages of a Constitution. I think the next one we make may be 500 pages.

when it is being planned. Somebody sat down and said, in the words of Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jr., “How can we make some money? How can we steal?”

some constitutional changes that do not require the referendum, we will still remain in the dog house. Normally, for constitutions to be exhaustive, is very difficult.

Constitutions are not made for good people, since they do not need Constitutions. If you have got good people, you do not need a Constitution that is this big; even 10 pages will do. The old Constitution was not as big as this, but because the good people were becoming fewer in Kenya, we had to make these many pages of a Constitution. I think the next one we make may be 500 pages.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I was coming to the meaty part.

You have concluded thrice.

Without amendments!

Order, Sen. (Dr.) Langat. Despite your teaching prowess, you have to wait until you are given the Floor.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me this chance to second this very important Motion to establish an ad hoc Committee to investigate and manage the equipment services.

This is a very important Motion, because as we know very well, health is a devolved function and it is squarely within our mandate. That equipment has become a great problem to our counties. The Council of Governors (COGs) had even complained and raised a serious matter on this. They said that they were not involved in the procurement process; there was no basic assessment to establish the priority or the most urgent needs in our counties before these equipment were brought.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is very interesting that most of our counties are now experiencing a lot of challenges. I remember just the other day when Sen. Murkomen got a problem while we were in the field, while we were thinking of taking him to the County Hospital, which is well written that it is a referral hospital--- We were told that there is no immediate attention because of the challenges they are facing. With all those huge equipment, they could still not even do some minor X-rays, to the point that Sen. Murkomen was taken to a private hospital and finally referred to Nairobi.

If the counties had been involved in the procurement and the purchase of this equipment, they could have had an opportunity to recommend the most appropriate and basic ones based on various counties. This particular ad hoc Committee has a lot to bring to the Senate and make sure that the Senate’s mandate is taken back to its position.

Order, Senators. I have a short communication to make regarding the passage of the County Allocation of Revenue Bill (Senate Bills No.8 of 2019) .

Without amendments!

Order! The Message says, and I quote- “Pursuant to the provisions of Standing Orders 41 (1) and 144 of the National Assembly Standing Orders, I hereby convey the following message from the National Assembly: Whereas, the County Allocation of Revenue Bill (Senate Bills No.8 of 2019) , was passed by the Senate on Tuesday the 17th of September 2019 with amendments and referred to the National Assembly for consideration. Whereas, the National Assembly passed the said Bill on Wednesday, 18th of September 2019, without amendments and in the form passed by the Senate. Now, therefore, in accordance with the provisions of Article 110 of the Constitution and Standing Order 41 (1) and 144 of the National Assembly Standing Orders, I hereby convey the said decision of the National Assembly to the Senate. Hon. Senators, the Speaker of the Senate is in the process of transmitting this Bill to His Excellency the President for assent. I am advised that it could be signed within the course of today.

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me this chance to second this very important Motion to establish an ad hoc Committee to investigate and manage the equipment services.

This is a very important Motion, because as we know very well, health is a devolved function and it is squarely within our mandate. That equipment has become a great problem to our counties. The Council of Governors (COGs) had even complained and raised a serious matter on this. They said that they were not involved in the procurement process; there was no basic assessment to establish the priority or the most urgent needs in our counties before these equipment were brought.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is very interesting that most of our counties are now experiencing a lot of challenges. I remember just the other day when Sen. Murkomen got a problem while we were in the field, while we were thinking of taking him to the County Hospital, which is well written that it is a referral hospital--- We were told that there is no immediate attention because of the challenges they are facing. With all those huge equipment, they could still not even do some minor X-rays, to the point that Sen. Murkomen was taken to a private hospital and finally referred to Nairobi.

If the counties had been involved in the procurement and the purchase of this equipment, they could have had an opportunity to recommend the most appropriate and basic ones based on various counties. This particular ad hoc Committee has a lot to bring to the Senate and make sure that the Senate’s mandate is taken back to its position.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

I did not say which Senator. There were several points of orders.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I thought you said the best of them all.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I thank you for confirming. I thought it would serve this House better if you would be guided from the onset about time so that we know and is leveled for everyone.

Is that the mood of the House?

Yes!

This is an important matter and as many Senators as possible should speak to it. So, we should make a decision. Would you want to take five or three minutes?

Five minutes.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I thank you for confirming. I thought it would serve this House better if you would be guided from the onset about time so that we know and is leveled for everyone.

Is that the mood of the House?

Yes!

This is an important matter and as many Senators as possible should speak to it. So, we should make a decision. Would you want to take five or three minutes?

Order, Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. Do not go that direction. You can say the same thing differently.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, some of you will shy from the truth. So, the time to refuse to sit in this Committee is now before we pass you. If we agree to pass you and you let us down, we will name and shame you here. That is a promise. We say so because we know on authority that just like some other committees, you will be tempted with money to hide the truth. This is because these contracts have the hand of high authorities in Kenya and people in the Ministry and they are watching us keenly. They will interfere like what they normally do.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we have three choices as a country with regards to the equipment that is here. One is to buy it. Two, continue leasing it. Three, dispose it. The contradiction about disposing this equipment is because, for example, in Makueni, we have a built a hospital called Makindu Trauma Centre where we have installed it. What are we supposed to do if the Committee or the contractors say that we dispose or buy it, yet the Government has already spent an inordinate sum of money? Will we spend more money? This is a case where we are damned if we do or if we do not.

People are talking about people’s lives. I was in a conference in Kisumu and the County Executive Committee Member (CEC) said that the second hospital in Isiolo has never installed any equipment. The Chairman of the Committee on Health is here and he can confirm that in hospitals in Trans Nzoia, one hospital has never installed single equipment and they are paying. It is a shame. This is a country where we make money out of people’s deaths. This is a country where we are waiting to kill human beings. This is a country where we lease equipment which in seven years becomes obsolete. We have hired stretchers, leased gloves, syringes and linen trolleys.

This contract was signed by the Cabinet Secretary (CS) but when he was asked, he said he did not know. I feel sad for the Committee. If you are not as sad as I am, do not take up this job because it will be something that you do not want to deal with. It will be difficult and you will need the protection of the Lord. Your conscience will be pricked so many items when you hide the truth and Kenyans lose their lives in Isiolo, Trans Nzoia and other counties where they have not had the benefit of having this equipment.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for the first time in this country, we have violated procurement laws by varying a contract more than a hundred times and nobody seems to bother. If we had powers to prosecute, we will complete this report and jail some people.

Thank you, Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. Your time is up.

Proceed, distinguished Senator for West Pokot County.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Under normal circumstances, when a Motion is moved by the Senate Majority and Minority leaders, it ties a person to support it on the account of the Movers.

It is under what Standing Orders, or are you talking about political responsibility?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, some of you will shy from the truth. So, the time to refuse to sit in this Committee is now before we pass you. If we agree to pass you and you let us down, we will name and shame you here. That is a promise. We say so because we know on authority that just like some other committees, you will be tempted with money to hide the truth. This is because these contracts have the hand of high authorities in Kenya and people in the Ministry and they are watching us keenly. They will interfere like what they normally do.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we have three choices as a country with regards to the equipment that is here. One is to buy it. Two, continue leasing it. Three, dispose it. The contradiction about disposing this equipment is because, for example, in Makueni, we have a built a hospital called Makindu Trauma Centre where we have installed it. What are we supposed to do if the Committee or the contractors say that we dispose or buy it, yet the Government has already spent an inordinate sum of money? Will we spend more money? This is a case where we are damned if we do or if we do not.

People are talking about people’s lives. I was in a conference in Kisumu and the County Executive Committee Member (CEC) said that the second hospital in Isiolo has never installed any equipment. The Chairman of the Committee on Health is here and he can confirm that in hospitals in Trans Nzoia, one hospital has never installed single equipment and they are paying. It is a shame. This is a country where we make money out of people’s deaths. This is a country where we are waiting to kill human beings. This is a country where we lease equipment which in seven years becomes obsolete. We have hired stretchers, leased gloves, syringes and linen trolleys.

This contract was signed by the Cabinet Secretary (CS) but when he was asked, he said he did not know. I feel sad for the Committee. If you are not as sad as I am, do not take up this job because it will be something that you do not want to deal with. It will be difficult and you will need the protection of the Lord. Your conscience will be pricked so many items when you hide the truth and Kenyans lose their lives in Isiolo, Trans Nzoia and other counties where they have not had the benefit of having this equipment.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for the first time in this country, we have violated procurement laws by varying a contract more than a hundred times and nobody seems to bother. If we had powers to prosecute, we will complete this report and jail some people.

Thank you, Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. Your time is up.

Proceed, distinguished Senator for West Pokot County.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Under normal circumstances, when a Motion is moved by the Senate Majority and Minority leaders, it ties a person to support it on the account of the Movers.

It is under what Standing Orders, or are you talking about political responsibility?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I know those leaders and I tell you from knowledge that when they look at you, you will have to support them.

I hope the Senate Minority Leader is not looking at you.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, he is looking at me with four eyes. I wish to raise a few concerns about this Motion. One of the concerns is that the membership of the proposed Committee is ideally the Committee on Health.

Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, if more than 60 per cent of the membership is from the Committee on Health, we have a lot of explaining to do when it comes to passing it as an ad hoc Committee. There are other instances like the issue of two Senators from the same county and things like that. Therefore, I would like to think of the process. There is nothing wrong with the Motion going through, but we should also look at the possibilities of the process.

Also, when there is an ad hoc committee - which we should be using very sparingly - the use of an ad hoc committee is not to find things when we have standing committees. We have had ad hoc committees before, and it is not a panacea that we have an ad hoc committee doing the job of standing committees. Sometimes there is mischief in the ad hoc committees. I would like the House to think whether we really need to use ad hoc committees in this particular case. Furthermore, the content we are asking for needs to change. If you look at the information we are looking for, it is not new information. This information can be found in libraries. You can do what we call---

Order, Senator for Vihiga! You have been doing well this afternoon. Do not wash away that great achievement. Consult in low tones.

I add the Senator for West Pokot one-and-a-half minutes.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir. If we must go back to the drawing board and get hold of the things we are looking for, we must change the narrative that we provide in the Motion. As far as the Motion is concerned, if you look at it critically, you will find that the information is not new. You can find this information from sources that are readily available. Without being opposed to something that is good, I suggest that we look at the possibility of the Mover rewriting this Motion, so that it sticks and gives a little more strength to diversify the kind of people who will be in this Committee. This will also make sure that the kind of information we are putting in the Motion is additional information that is useful for getting to the root of the problem.

First of all, in the report that we have just passed as a House on the Division of Revenue Bill, the Mediation Committee proposed that a joint ad hoc committee be formed to look into the issues which came up during mediation. This was accepted by the entire House.

Secondly, the House had started this same process in the Senate and we want to start another committee before being told what happened to the other process. Is it in order, even as I inform the House of those two elements that are substantive in nature, that we consider those two issues as we do this other report? This is because the Senate does not legislate or pass reports in vain.

Sen. Sakaja, are you on a point of order or a point of information?

It was an orderly point of information.

Sen. Sakaja, what is it?

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, and Sen. Poghisio for agreeing to be informed.

As we consider the very weighty contribution by Sen. Poghisio, I would like to inform the House of two things.

Very well. The distinguished Senator of Bungoma County for a very long time has been seized of this matter for historical reasons.

Proceed, Sen. Wetangula.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I originated this Motion and I recognize the acknowledgment by Sen. Orengo that, indeed, I did. You may recall yourself sitting in the Chair and saying a lot of strong statements about this process at a time when we were having difficulties. From the onset, I want to advise my nephew, the Senator for Nairobi City County, that the sweetener that he put in the report that he brought here the other day about setting up an ad hoc committee jointly with the National Assembly flies in the face of common sense. This is because the National Assembly has no interest in this matter and has no interest in getting this issue resolved.

In fact, I dare say that a senior leader in the National Assembly, whose name I will keep from the Floor, told me that when he tried to remove this from the budget, he received serious phone calls to tell him that is a no gone zone, and that is the zone we want to go. This is a scandal of monstrous proportions. It was called the Managed Equipment Services (MES) , and it has become a big mess. A governor from the Rift Valley who allowed me to quote him, if I wished to, told me that equipment worth Kshs20 million was delivered to his county and Kshs200 million was creamed off at the center in this whole saga.

My distinguished colleague from Trans-Nzoia County, the county where my party is the government, in Endebess, we were told by the Minister herself that equipment was delivered in a hospital that does not have electricity and to date, it is on a container. It has

It was an orderly point of information.

His not so convincing views on the matter---

Fine, that is acceptable.

Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, I think he owes me an apology for claiming that my mind is wishy washy to begin with.

I am sure Sen. Wetangula will find no problem apologizing to you, being the gentleman he is because I saw him retract very fast when I brought it to his attention.

It is two minutes, Sen. Wetangula.

Order! Sen. Wetangula, use a better term.

His not so convincing views on the matter---

Fine, that is acceptable.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Part of this Motion is ridiculous or we are being treated to some kind of comedy. When I was growing up, there was a programme called “Reddykyulas” where the comedians used to imitate some personalities. I think this is the kind of thing we are being treated to in this Motion.

The membership of this Committee other than two or three Members are from the Senate Committee on Health which, as a Member of this House and of the public feel like the Committee has disappointed us and has not been able to deliver on its terms of reference (TORs) .

There is a Swahili saying that, “Samaki huoza kutoka kichwani”. The leadership of this Senate Committee on Health has not been able to steer it towards its mandate. I think the Senate Committee on Health is being sanitised by giving it a different name that is “ad hoc Committee.”

Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, I have never known someone with such a solid mind and position on issues as the Senator of West Pokot.

As the defender of counties, their governments and their people, this House cannot sit and watch when money is being taken away. You remember we started by paying Kshs3.5 billion. We moved to Kshs5 billion, then Kshs9 billion and now we are back to Kshs6.4 billion, in a fixed term contract. Where are the addendums to this contract for variations of these figures?

I want to salute the Chairman of the Committee of Finance and Budget. At least he has been strong, steadfast and consistent on this particular issue. However, this is fraud flying in our faces.

They brought some details on the Floor and you, Sen. Orengo, Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. and I were in that House. The report was about leasing disposable syringes, hand groves, trays and wooden chairs. It was scandalous!

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I agree with Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. that if you are fainthearted, jerk-kneed and wish-washy; if you do not know whether you are going or coming you should opt out of this Committee.

It is two minutes, Sen. Wetangula.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am discussing the membership of the Committee - the sanitized ad hoc Committee on Health.

Yes!

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we might start leasing all manner of things. This House must stand up to be counted. I want to tell you and this House here in the great County of Kitui that the passage of this Motion has made history. This is because we shall remember that sitting in this beautiful Chamber of Kitui County, this House unanimously, in a Motion originated by yours truly, moved by Leader of Minority and the Majority and unanimously supported by even those who are half-hearted, we are going to get to the bottom of this mess and stop any future theft of public resources. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, health is 95 per cent devolved. On what basis would somebody sit at Afya House to lease equipment for a health centre in Endebess or Hulugho, Mandera, Loyangalani or Longisa? This scandal must be checked, brought to an end and those culpable must bite the bullet. (The red timer went on) The President has pronounced himself as I finish, that he is fighting corruption in all its forms and manifestations. If there is a case of corruption, this is it. Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. The Deputy Speaker (

What is it, Sen. (Dr.) Ali? Sen. (Dr.) Ali: Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, is Sen. Omanga in order to---

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Part of this Motion is ridiculous or we are being treated to some kind of comedy. When I was growing up, there was a programme called “Reddykyulas” where the comedians used to imitate some personalities. I think this is the kind of thing we are being treated to in this Motion.

The membership of this Committee other than two or three Members are from the Senate Committee on Health which, as a Member of this House and of the public feel like the Committee has disappointed us and has not been able to deliver on its terms of reference (TORs) .

There is a Swahili saying that, “Samaki huoza kutoka kichwani”. The leadership of this Senate Committee on Health has not been able to steer it towards its mandate. I think the Senate Committee on Health is being sanitised by giving it a different name that is “ad hoc Committee.”

Order, Sen. (Dr.) Ali. Sen. Omanga is perfectly in order to talk about diversity---

Could she tell us those Members who come from one county---

Order! Sen. (Dr.) Ali. Do not over- sensationalise a straightforward matter.

Order, Senator! Sanitization is a medical term.

Proceed.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, up to date, we have never received any report regarding Kirinyaga County. The Senator was complaining because the Committee had no quorum. They had only two Members in Kirinyaga. If these are the same Members forming the ad- hoc committee, then we expect to have quorum issues. I am also raising the issue of regional balance. We do not have the vast coastal region representation. I have the privilege of sitting in the CPAIC Committee where we have been going to the counties and looking at these health facilities. We have issues in the coastal region. I can only see five Senators from one region the Western part of Kenya and we have two Senators from the same county. I do not know what happened to regional balance because I think it is very important for us to get a feel of every region when we are doing the membership of this Committee.

Order!

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

What is it, Sen. (Dr.) Ali?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, issues of diversity are constitutional---

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, is Sen. Omanga in order to---

I did not say if the door is closed, you use the window to enter. The distinguished Senator of Kitui County, are you on a point of order?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, is Sen. Omanga in order to profile Members of a Committee that this Member belongs to this region and this one belongs to this county?

Sen. Omanga still has a minute or so.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, you can remember the issue of Isiolo County where the Senator who is the Deputy Leader of Majority was very furious and frustrated that the Committee sided with the county executive and her issues were never addressed. She actually said that on the Floor of this House.

We have six Members of the Standing Committee on Health and Members of the ad hoc Committee and that means we are closing shop. It means that we do not have the Committee on Health but instead we have the ad hoc committee which is time bound. After 90 days, we will not be having our substantive Committee on Health. It means we will be working with the ad hoc committee until next year.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I oppose.

Your time is up. Let us have the Senator for Kitui County.

On a point of information, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Order, Senator for Bomet and Senator for Wajir.

Whereas I support wholeheartedly the decision to set up this committee to look into issues of the mess, I oppose the list as constituted. I propose that perhaps, the majority and minority sides should consult further on this list.

I have nothing personal against the Committee on Health but this includes Members of the Committee on Health plus two other Members. I do not want to say anything about my colleagues. The only point that is important for me to make on the Floor of this House is that the Senate Committee on Health of the Republic of Kenya has not done very well in Kitui County.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, last week, I brought a Petition on the Floor of this House about a hospital in Kyuso that was illegally closed down. Yesterday, through informal consultations, Members of the Health Committee of Kitui County Assembly went ahead to wait the arrival of their Senate counterparts in the Committee on Health at the hospital to understand the issues. That Committee has not gone there. I can confirm, through the Chair of the Committee who is here, that there was no business that the Committee on Health transacted today.

I am told that tomorrow, Members of the Senate Committee on Health of the Republic of Kenya will meet Kitui County Government Executive to discuss funding of hospitals. What a shame! That Committee cannot be the same to deal with this matter. It must be another committee and other Senators or else we should suspend this matter.

I thank you.

Order, Sen. (Dr.) Langat. Proceed Sen. Halake.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. First of all, I would like to congratulate the Senate for heeding the call from the governors. We should never forget the fact that governors petitioned this House to do this work. I therefore congratulate Sen. Wetangula for this timely Motion, which I fully support in terms of what it will do to unearth some of the below optimal practices and the mess.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, issues of diversity are constitutional---

I did not say if the door is closed, you use the window to enter. The distinguished Senator of Kitui County, are you on a point of order?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I seek protection from the Chair. The Senator for Wajir County is the Vice Chairperson of the Senate Committee on Health and he is approaching me. I do not know what his intention is. Therefore, I seek protection.

That is why I mentioned about his agitation because not only was the Senator for Wajir County approaching you but he did so with menaces.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, you can remember the issue of Isiolo County where the Senator who is the Deputy Leader of Majority was very furious and frustrated that the Committee sided with the county executive and her issues were never addressed. She actually said that on the Floor of this House.

We have six Members of the Standing Committee on Health and Members of the ad hoc Committee and that means we are closing shop. It means that we do not have the Committee on Health but instead we have the ad hoc committee which is time bound. After 90 days, we will not be having our substantive Committee on Health. It means we will be working with the ad hoc committee until next year.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I oppose.

Your time is up. Let us have the Senator for Kitui County.

Asante, Bw. Naibu Spika, kwa kunipa fursa hii kuchangia Hoja ya kuundwa kwa kamati maalum ili kuchunguza mambo yanayohusu vifaa vya afya vinavyopelekwa katika kaunti.

Kwanza, wazo la kuunda kamati ni nzuri sana kwa sababu kwa muda wa zaidi ya mwaka sasa, Bunge limekuwa likilalamika kuhusu mradi wa vifaa vya hospitali lakini hatujapata jibu lolote.

Order, Senator for Bomet and Senator for Wajir.

Whereas I support wholeheartedly the decision to set up this committee to look into issues of the mess, I oppose the list as constituted. I propose that perhaps, the majority and minority sides should consult further on this list.

I have nothing personal against the Committee on Health but this includes Members of the Committee on Health plus two other Members. I do not want to say anything about my colleagues. The only point that is important for me to make on the Floor of this House is that the Senate Committee on Health of the Republic of Kenya has not done very well in Kitui County.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, last week, I brought a Petition on the Floor of this House about a hospital in Kyuso that was illegally closed down. Yesterday, through informal consultations, Members of the Health Committee of Kitui County Assembly went ahead to wait the arrival of their Senate counterparts in the Committee on Health at the hospital to understand the issues. That Committee has not gone there. I can confirm, through the Chair of the Committee who is here, that there was no business that the Committee on Health transacted today.

I am told that tomorrow, Members of the Senate Committee on Health of the Republic of Kenya will meet Kitui County Government Executive to discuss funding of hospitals. What a shame! That Committee cannot be the same to deal with this matter. It must be another committee and other Senators or else we should suspend this matter.

I thank you.

Order, Sen. (Dr.) Langat. Proceed Sen. Halake.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. First of all, I would like to congratulate the Senate for heeding the call from the governors. We should never forget the fact that governors petitioned this House to do this work. I therefore congratulate Sen. Wetangula for this timely Motion, which I fully support in terms of what it will do to unearth some of the below optimal practices and the mess.

I also have concerns with the composition of the ad hoc committee. As it has been said before, these are the same people. If we think that our Committee on Health can deal with it, then let us assign that work to the Committee as opposed to calling it an ad hoc committee.

It is true that our governors were bullied and forced to sign for the managed equipment services. Therefore, I am surprised that---

The Senator for Samburu, approach the chair.

Order, Sen. (Dr.) Lelegwe.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity to contribute on this Motion. I know it is painful when we are discussing issues that affect our people when health is devolved. I am a Member of the Committee on Health, and I have been proposed to be a member of the ad hoc Committee.

That is why I mentioned about his agitation because not only was the Senator for Wajir County approaching you but he did so with menaces.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, as I said, I fully support this Motion. The need to audit this mess cannot be gainsaid. All that said, time is of essence because this started five years ago and billions of shillings have gone down the drain. On the account of messing up with the composition of the Committee, we may be forced to not execute that today.

That said, I also have a concern with the composition of the Committee. If we think that the Committee on Health can do this, you should give them the 60 days as opposed to coming up with an ad hoc committee. So far, nobody has seen the lease agreement.

Before we even go into the content of this Motion, let us deal with the issue of composition of the ad hoc Committee. Therefore, while I am in full support of this Motion and look forward to seeing the audit of managed equipment service, I have a problem with the composition of Members of the Committee.

Therefore, I have my reservations and do not support.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I stand to move a procedural Motion pursuant to Standing Order No.105 (1) that this debate be deferred for the mood of the House. We retreat and consult on the membership of the Committee.

Sen. Omanga categorically shared her fears that if the Members of the Committee on Health are the majority of the ad hoc Committee, we shall paralyse the operations of the Committee on Health. There has been a general concern on the membership of this Committee because the members of the health Committee have had almost two years to adjudicate this matter to no avail or success. Therefore, it would be improper for this House to again approve the same names who have failed to adjudicate this matter.

Asante, Bw. Naibu Spika, kwa kunipa fursa hii kuchangia Hoja ya kuundwa kwa kamati maalum ili kuchunguza mambo yanayohusu vifaa vya afya vinavyopelekwa katika kaunti.

Kwanza, wazo la kuunda kamati ni nzuri sana kwa sababu kwa muda wa zaidi ya mwaka sasa, Bunge limekuwa likilalamika kuhusu mradi wa vifaa vya hospitali lakini hatujapata jibu lolote.

Bw. Naibu Spika, naomba unilinde kwa kuwa baadhi ya wenzangu wamesimama na wanapiga kelele.

Senator for Makueni County, you are out of order. Sen. Shiyonga, resume your seat. If you must consult, you know what to do.

Proceed Sen. Faki.

Well advised, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

who do the work be relooked at so that we can do something that will be a legacy for this Senate?

In Kirinyaga, the MES is not working. When the reagents are finished, you have to wait for them to be imported because it is a closed system where you cannot use universal reagents including the films for the machines. Therefore, we do not need to overemphasize the need for the work to be done by the Committee that will be appointed by the Senate. However, the point is I oppose to the extent of the Committee that has been proposed.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

The Senator for Samburu, approach the chair.

Order, Sen. (Dr.) Lelegwe.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity to contribute on this Motion. I know it is painful when we are discussing issues that affect our people when health is devolved. I am a Member of the Committee on Health, and I have been proposed to be a member of the ad hoc Committee.

Order! Order! Abstain using words like so-called.

What is it, Sen. Malalah?

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I stand to move a procedural Motion pursuant to Standing Order No.105 (1) that this debate be deferred for the mood of the House. We retreat and consult on the membership of the Committee.

Sen. Omanga categorically shared her fears that if the Members of the Committee on Health are the majority of the ad hoc Committee, we shall paralyse the operations of the Committee on Health. There has been a general concern on the membership of this Committee because the members of the health Committee have had almost two years to adjudicate this matter to no avail or success. Therefore, it would be improper for this House to again approve the same names who have failed to adjudicate this matter.

Order, Senators. I propose the Motion, that the debate be now adjourned. I am going to give a few Senators two to three minutes to contribute, but restrict yourself if you get a chance, to the issue adjournment of debate not the Motion that is before us. That is, whether or not debate should be adjourned, very specifically. The first chance will go to the distinguished Senator for Uasin Gishu County.

Order. You know the rules about imputing proper motives. Members are Members whether you name them or not, they are Members. However, there are many ways of communicating the same message but differently.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, all Members are good Members but there are some who I will not name---

I had, in fact, raised it much earlier, I would like to support that we actually retreat. But I want to urge the leadership of the House, that when they are discussing, it is should not be a discussion of two or three people; let them consult widely. If at all there were consultations, I think the issue would not have passed through the Senate Business Committee on its own. All the other Chairs would have been consulted, so that everybody is carried along.

I support.

Well advised, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Just say perhaps, there could be a tendency.

bothered to listen. This has come up again, and it is making us to lose faith. This shows that there are Members who are always prepared to be part of ad hoc committee. This will give us an opportunity to rethink about the entire issue.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, as I finish, we are strong when we form ad hoc committees and even other committees to investigate matters, but when it comes to conclusion and giving the Report, we always have problems. I would not want to be part of the group which starts strongly and at the end become weak.

We need to look into that and if we form an ad hoc committee, it should be a strong committee that will be committed and all hon. Members should sign the Report. In the past, we have seen some hon. Members refusing to sign reports. If this trend continues, I will not support any ad hoc committee in this House.

Thank you.

The Chairperson of the Committee on Health, what do you have to say?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I thank you for giving me this opportunity. I agree that we should delay this matter. I would like to address some of concerns that have been directed towards my Committee. A lot of things have been alleged---

Order, Sen. (Dr.) Mbito! What the Standing Orders allow you to do now is discuss about the adjournment of debate. I agree that a number of statements have been made about your Committee. However, you will have an opportunity to respond to them later.

It is too late!

The second issue that we need for clarity because Members of this House are respected; this House commands a lot of respect across the country. When we summon Members of the national or county governments, they come because they know that when Senate asks you questions, it is not the kind of hop-scotch games they play in the National Assembly. So, we need to be told, because we summoned the Cabinet Secretary for Health and many other officers, and this process is not beginning now for the first time. What happened to the earlier process?

That is the only way we will be able to convince these Members that we are not engaging in a process in vain but that we are serious. Members of the Committee on Education will tell you that we were deeply embarrassed when you brought this issue. Remember the Senate removed all this money and when we brought it up in mediation, Members from the “Lower House” could tell us, what you are telling us is hearsay or do have a report to the effect of what you are saying that the Senate resolved?

Sen. Olekina, Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr., and I, could only look at each other in embarrassment and look down at our shoes because we had no answer for them. So, we need to be told by the leadership of that Committee and the leadership of the House what happened to the earlier process and what will prevent this process from moving the same way.

I want to applaud the leadership for taking this wise step and I second this Procedural Motion by Sen. Malalah.

Thank you.

‘The leadership of the House on behalf of the House will look at the membership of the Committee on Health and make recommendations on how this House can be more efficient in that Committee and report to the Speaker in two weeks of the recommendation’ Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, you made this ruling after complaints of so many adjournments and report deadlines not being met. Further, you said that:-

“This matter is no longer being handled by this particular Committee because we will not want to perpetuate this delay further.” Those were the words of the Deputy Speaker in February 2019. From then on, the Committee on Health was available to give us a report on this matter. When the Committee on Health approached the SBC to be heard in camera, this happens rarely, we asked the members of staff to go away. The stories that they had to tell were not very good stories with the staff members around.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is for that reason that Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. stated that if a Senator is on this list, he or she should not be part of the list that we will come up with later if you cannot make up your mind at the end of the day. I agree with the House especially the Senator for West Pokot because I have known him for a long time. He is not easily persuaded otherwise on matters of principle.

In the name of accountability, when Sen. Wetangula crafted this Motion, he had already approached some Members to be in this ad hoc Committee. There was some kind of lobbying that was going on and the people who are in that Committee as chosen by the distinguished Senator for Bungoma County said that if they were left out of this Committee, they would reject it. The balance of the people that you see in this Committee were either in the Committee on Health---

Thank you very much, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me the opportunity to support the Motion of adjournment of this debate.

I really support it because the feelings of the House are very clear and it is very important of us to carry each one of us. This is because whatever the Senate decides, it is a decision of the Senate. It is not a decision of a Committee, it is not the decision of the ad hoc committee. So the whole process from the selection of the Members, the interviews that they do on the ground and the Report that they table here is something that we must all own. I would really like to support the Motion from the Senator of Kakamega that it is important that we retreat and relook at this because the issues raised are really weighty.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to inform the distinguished Senator for Siaya County, my distinguished learned senior, that the old practice in the Houses of Parliament is that when a Member sets up an ad hoc Committee, you do not just include Members names. You consult them to see whether they are ready to serve or not. That is what Sen. (Prof.) Kamar and I did during the ad hoc Committee on maize. We personally approached each and every Member who served on the ad hoc Committee on maize. Some Members declined membership because they said they had conflicting interests. The Members who agreed to be part of the ad hoc Committee did a wonderful job.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would also like to inform the Senate Minority Leader that the ad hoc Committee route resolved substantially the problems of the Kenya Airways when hon. (Prof) Anyang’-Nyong’o chaired the Committee. We substantially laid the foundation for resolving the issues that affect the maize sector in this country. Implementation of our recommendation is the problem. I believe that ad hoc Committee is the way to go to resolve this problem in the health sector.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I rise to support the Procedural Motion to adjourn this debate. I agree with my colleagues that this is a very sensitive matter. This is a matter where corruption is written all over it. I think it is about time we started telling the truth in this country.

I was particularly concerned about the composition of the Membership. We are a House of union and I think it is imperative that Kenyans out there can see that the issues that we are discussing are representative. When we went to Samburu, it was a shame because those medical equipment were still in containers. When I looked at the membership of the ad hoc committee, in fact, I asked my leader why this was like this. The issue was that this matter needed to be dealt with by the Committee on Health. Let us call a spade a spade.

Martin Luther King once said that injustice and corruption will never be transformed by keeping them hidden but only by bringing them out in light and confronting them with the power of love. We love this county so much and we love our people and even if we are Members of the same House, where we think that there is some injustice, it is important to call a spade a spade.

All of us have information how this mess has become a mess. I remember when we were seated in a Committee and we had the Controller of Budget whom we asked to tell us where there is an agreement between the national Government and the county government in terms of Article 189 of the Constitution, when a function has been transferred from one level of government to the other. She could not give us an answer. She was upset because we are now dealing with issues which were very sensitive. I remember asking the National Treasury to tell us how money is being sent from the national Government to pay for devolved functions under the county government. They did not respond.

Corruption is really dishonesty in this country, and I think the only way that we can be able to really get to the truth of this matter is if we remain with the level of integrity that we have had in this House. I would plead with the leadership of both sides to really consult even the Members who will be proposed to be included in the Committee so that we can all feel as if this matter is coming to an end.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for allowing me to say something. I was fully prepared to give my views and ideas on the Motion before, but now I support the Procedural Motion that we adjourn, simply because of the composition as we have said. I will not repeat what the other hon Members have said about the membership. I equally have the same concerns.

Secondly, let me now turn to the issue of the ad hoc committee. Again, as we adjourn, we really need to see whether we need the ad hoc committee, because when we formed the ad hoc Committee on Maize, we raised the same concerns but nobody

Asante, Bw. Naibu Spika. Pia mimi nilikuwa katika hiyo harakati ambayo wakili ama kiongozi, Sen. Sen. Orengo, aliposema kwamba ingekuwa bora kusuluhisha jambo hili kuhusu wale ambao majina yao yameandikwa hapa, kwa heshima ya hili Bunge. Nimekuwa katika Bunge kuanzia mwaka wa 2013. Kwa hivyo ingekuwa heshima kubwa ikiwa hao ambao wako katika hii list, badala ya sisi kupoteza wakati mkubwa, wajiondoe wenyewe ili sisi tupate nafasi. Hata sasa hivi, tunaweza kuchaguana hapa ndani; wote wanatosha.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I thank you for giving me this opportunity. I agree that we should delay this matter. I would like to address some of concerns that have been directed towards my Committee. A lot of things have been alleged---

Order, Sen. (Dr.) Mbito! What the Standing Orders allow you to do now is discuss about the adjournment of debate. I agree that a number of statements have been made about your Committee. However, you will have an opportunity to respond to them later.

It is too late!

Order, Sen. (Dr.) Ali! Does the Senate Minority Leader want to say something before I give further direction? The Senate Minority Leader (

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir. I support that this debate be adjourned because we need to get it right this time. I am sure that if it is adjourned, given

the time we have, when it will resume, we would have thought enough on what we really want.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I say this because of the experience I have had with the few ad hoc Committees we have had, as a House, and how they performed. I have personally not had a very good feeling about how we ended with the reports that those committees did. A good example is the Solai Dam Report, where the Members told us that they had received threats. At the end of the day, very few Members signed that Report.

The same happened to another report, which was not really ad hoc, but similar in nature; the Ruaraka Report. Members said that they had been threatened. At the end of the day, the House voted out a report that looked positive and voted for a report of its own Committee. The same happened to issues over the Ad hoc Committee on the Maize scandal, and we are yet to hear about the Ad hoc Committee on Tea in terms of how far they have gone.

Therefore, looking at the kinds of experiences that we have had with ad hoc Committees in this House, it is important that we relook at what we have; the membership and how we arrived at that membership. The balancing has been proposed and, at the end of the day, we should get the best out of it, noting that this is a very sensitive issue. We need to have people who are ready to face it; to sign those reports and give a positive report to this House.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to support.

Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, I beg to support the adjournment of debate, as proposed by the Senator for Kakamega. This is a very serious matter, and we are not handling it with the seriousness it deserves, as the Senate. This matter has been discussed severally in the Senate Business Committee (SBC) and in my own Committee on Finance and Budget. After realizing that there is a lot of controversy about this particular matter, we recommended the suspension of this budget during the Budget Policy Statement (BPS) time in our Report on the Budget Policy Statement. We did this because of the confusion that this matter was shrouded in.

Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, the discussion about the ad hoc Committee was discussed in the SBC, and it took time for the leadership of the House to even bring the names. I think there is a serious problem that we all fear. In as much as we will fear the report that will come later, which will unearth all the corruption, I think we fear to start. Going forward, if we decide to make an ad hoc Committee, so be it. I do not think we need to overload the Committee on Health and bring the names again.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, going forward, this matter is very urgent and serious, as mentioned earlier by other colleagues. Even during the mediation on the Division of Revenue Bill, it was a matter of discussion. I urge that the members who want to be on this, going forward, are people who should volunteer and say that they can do this job, because it is a very serious matter. It will deal with serious matters, and I know it will not be easy. You have to be brave and patriotic enough to deal with this matter.

I support the Motion by Sen. Sen. Malalah, but we should deal with this matter sooner than later.

Sen. Orengo, would you like to be informed? The Senate Minority Leader (

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, yes, I would.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to inform the distinguished Senator for Siaya County, my distinguished learned senior, that the old practice in the Houses of Parliament is that when a Member sets up an ad hoc Committee, you do not just include Members names. You consult them to see whether they are ready to serve or not. That is what Sen. (Prof.) Kamar and I did during the ad hoc Committee on maize. We personally approached each and every Member who served on the ad hoc Committee on maize. Some Members declined membership because they said they had conflicting interests. The Members who agreed to be part of the ad hoc Committee did a wonderful job.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would also like to inform the Senate Minority Leader that the ad hoc Committee route resolved substantially the problems of the Kenya Airways when hon. (Prof) Anyang’-Nyong’o chaired the Committee. We substantially laid the foundation for resolving the issues that affect the maize sector in this country. Implementation of our recommendation is the problem. I believe that ad hoc Committee is the way to go to resolve this problem in the health sector.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, as we go forward, I urge the House to look at the urgency and seriousness of this matter. Again, we also need to look at the mandate of the Committee on Health. Remember health is a fully devolved function, and we not only have the issue of health facilities as a problem in health. We have so many issues affecting health in this country. Therefore, it is high time we look at either reconstituting this Committee or even let it handle this issue urgently.

Senator, conclude.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, let us not only look at the membership of the Ad hoc Committee, but also consider looking at the Committee on Health. This is because there are quite a number of issues that surround health in this country.

Hon. Members, as you are aware, we have been seized of this matter for more than a year now, beginning late 2018. This issue of establishing an Ad hoc Committee on the matter of the Managed Equipment Scheme (MES) was first introduced to this House by the distinguished Senator for Bungoma County, Sen. Wetangula, way back last year. I do not want to repeat the process, mutation and the twists and turns though which this subject has undergone.

In other words, this matter has been before the Plenary. It has been deferred before the SBC not once, but severally. The Speaker has pronounced himself on this matter extensively and severally, yet going by what we have discussed this afternoon, it appears that we have not heard the last about this matter. Therefore, time has come for us to dispose this matter one way or the other.

I insist that for the sake of the dignity of our House, this matter must be dealt with immediately, exhaustively and with finality. Because of that, I emphasize that the Plenary of this House is superior to any other Committee or organ of this House. That includes

Asante, Bw. Naibu Spika. Pia mimi nilikuwa katika hiyo harakati ambayo wakili ama kiongozi, Sen. Sen. Orengo, aliposema kwamba ingekuwa bora kusuluhisha jambo hili kuhusu wale ambao majina yao yameandikwa hapa, kwa heshima ya hili Bunge. Nimekuwa katika Bunge kuanzia mwaka wa 2013. Kwa hivyo ingekuwa heshima kubwa ikiwa hao ambao wako katika hii list, badala ya sisi kupoteza wakati mkubwa, wajiondoe wenyewe ili sisi tupate nafasi. Hata sasa hivi, tunaweza kuchaguana hapa ndani; wote wanatosha.

Order, Members! Accordingly and following the resolution of the Plenary a few seconds ago, I give the following directions: That, the consultation so required be done overnight tonight.

It is to adjourn debate, not to withdraw the Motion.

the time we have, when it will resume, we would have thought enough on what we really want.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I say this because of the experience I have had with the few ad hoc Committees we have had, as a House, and how they performed. I have personally not had a very good feeling about how we ended with the reports that those committees did. A good example is the Solai Dam Report, where the Members told us that they had received threats. At the end of the day, very few Members signed that Report.

The same happened to another report, which was not really ad hoc, but similar in nature; the Ruaraka Report. Members said that they had been threatened. At the end of the day, the House voted out a report that looked positive and voted for a report of its own Committee. The same happened to issues over the Ad hoc Committee on the Maize scandal, and we are yet to hear about the Ad hoc Committee on Tea in terms of how far they have gone.

Therefore, looking at the kinds of experiences that we have had with ad hoc Committees in this House, it is important that we relook at what we have; the membership and how we arrived at that membership. The balancing has been proposed and, at the end of the day, we should get the best out of it, noting that this is a very sensitive issue. We need to have people who are ready to face it; to sign those reports and give a positive report to this House.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to support.

- THAT Clause 3 of the Bill be amended –

- THAT the Bill be amended by inserting the following new clause immediately after clause 3 – 3A. Section 54 of the principal Act is amended –

I call upon Sen. (Prof.) Kamar to second. Sen. (Prof.) Kamar seconded. The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. (Dr.) Lelegwe): Division will be at the end. The Title and Clause 1

(Question, that the Title and Clause 1 be part of the Bill proposed) Division will be at the end. Hon. Senators, I call upon the Mover to report progress.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Chairperson, Sir. Pursuant to Standing Order No.148, I beg to move that the Committee of the Whole do report progress on its consideration of the Commission on Administrative Justice Bill (Senate Bill No. 6 of 2019) and seek leave to sit again tomorrow.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, as we go forward, I urge the House to look at the urgency and seriousness of this matter. Again, we also need to look at the mandate of the Committee on Health. Remember health is a fully devolved function, and we not only have the issue of health facilities as a problem in health. We have so many issues affecting health in this country. Therefore, it is high time we look at either reconstituting this Committee or even let it handle this issue urgently.

Senator, conclude.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, let us not only look at the membership of the Ad hoc Committee, but also consider looking at the Committee on Health. This is because there are quite a number of issues that surround health in this country.

Hon. Members, as you are aware, we have been seized of this matter for more than a year now, beginning late 2018. This issue of establishing an Ad hoc Committee on the matter of the Managed Equipment Scheme (MES) was first introduced to this House by the distinguished Senator for Bungoma County, Sen. Wetangula, way back last year. I do not want to repeat the process, mutation and the twists and turns though which this subject has undergone.

In other words, this matter has been before the Plenary. It has been deferred before the SBC not once, but severally. The Speaker has pronounced himself on this matter extensively and severally, yet going by what we have discussed this afternoon, it appears that we have not heard the last about this matter. Therefore, time has come for us to dispose this matter one way or the other.

I insist that for the sake of the dignity of our House, this matter must be dealt with immediately, exhaustively and with finality. Because of that, I emphasize that the Plenary of this House is superior to any other Committee or organ of this House. That includes

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I second.

Next Order! Statement by Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr.

Order, Members! Accordingly and following the resolution of the Plenary a few seconds ago, I give the following directions: That, the consultation so required be done overnight tonight.

they come or with very little amendments, especially on the composition of membership. The possibility of amendments is almost zero.

Therefore, I recommend that the sponsors of the Motion consider shortening the turnaround time to 30 days, 45 days, 60 days, or such other time that they deem necessary, so that we can expedite this matter. It is so ordered.

Next Statement by Sen. (Dr.) Zani.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I will start with the first Statement.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, pursuant to Standing Order 48 (1) , I rise to seek a Statement from the Standing Committee on Labour and Social Welfare concerning the status of inclusion of Persons with Disabilities (PWDs) into the labour market.

In the Statement the Committee should-

Let us have Statements “c” and “f” by Sen. Khaniri.

Division will be at the end. The Title and Clause 1(Question, that the Title and Clause 1 be part of the Bill proposed) Division will be at the end. Hon. Senators, I call upon the Mover to report progress.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise, pursuant to Standing Order 48 (1) , to seek a Statement from the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Health concerning Kenya’s healthcare system, particularly with regard to cancer treatment.

In the Statement, the Chairperson should-

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to report progress that the Committee of the Whole has considered The Commission on Administrative Justice Bill (Senate Bill No. 6 of 2019) and seeks leave to sit again to sit again tomorrow.

Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, I beg to move that the House do agree with the Committee on the said report.

Who is seconding?

I call upon Sen. Seneta to second.

Where is the Chairperson, Vice Chairperson or a Member of the Committee on National Security, Defence and Foreign Relations? That issue is live and active. It does not look good since it sets a precedence, where the Speaker of the Assembly has been arrested and charged. It would be important to hear what the Committee intends to do right here.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am a Member.

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Whom should they invite under Standing Order No. 48 (2) ?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, they should invite the regional police commandant because he is answerable and is in office to protect the county assembly. However, they have failed and were compromised.

Vice Chairperson, you have just come in. Are you conversant with these issues? May be, you can consult Sen. Outa privately.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, for your guidance and protection.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I request the following Statement arising out of a matter that has concerned me when it was brought to my attention. This request is for a Statement on the plight of internally displaced persons.

I rise pursuant to Standing Order 48 (1) , to seek a Statement from the Standing Committee on National Cohesion, Equal Opportunity and Regional Integration on the plight of Internally Displaced Persons (IDPs) .

In the Statement, the Committee should address the following:

Next Statement by Sen. (Dr.) Zani.

Sen. Were, is it on that issue?

In the Statement the Committee should-

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to make a comment on Sen. Outa’s Statement.

I thank him for bringing up this matter. I pick the cue from where you left. What happened in Kisumu is indeed unfortunate. This is what is giving our county assemblies a

bad name. I urge Members of all the 47 county assemblies to know that county assemblies’ chambers are places where they compete in intellect and ideas. It is a place where they represent and legislate for the people who elected them. It is a place that puts the governments to account on resources that have been allocated to them to help the people. It is not a place for them to exercise their physical strength.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for devolution to succeed, we must ensure that we have vibrant county assemblies that will help the Senate to ensure that county governments are brought to account on the resources that have been allocated to them to expend. I, therefore, discourage this and pick the cue from where you left. They must conduct their business with the decorum that county assemblies deserve.

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

What is it, Sen. Mwaruma?

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I do not know whether this is the best time to raise this issue.

Where is the Chairperson, Vice Chairperson or a Member of the Committee on National Security, Defence and Foreign Relations? That issue is live and active. It does not look good since it sets a precedence, where the Speaker of the Assembly has been arrested and charged. It would be important to hear what the Committee intends to do right here.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am a Member.

Would you inform the House what it is that the Committee should do now that you are the owner of the Statement?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I urge the Committee to move with speed because whatever is happening in Kisumu is what the Senate needs to protect the county assemblies from. Whatever is unfolding is unfortunate.

Goons were hired to disrupt the proceedings of the House. The Speaker was arrested, yet the police station is a stone throw away, and they watched in vain. I thought it was unjust, and it is something that the Senate should look into. That is why I seek my Committee to move with speed and come up with a report in less than two weeks.

Whom should they invite under Standing Order No. 48 (2) ?

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me this chance. I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.48 (1) to seek a Statement from the Standing Committee on Security, Defence and Foreign Relations on the rising insecurity in Tana River County.

In the Statement, the Committee should-

Sen. Mwaruma, I assume you are on a point of order.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am conversant. I was following the proceedings. I shall make any further clarifications to the Senator. I had earlier assumed, just as it has been asked, that it was a matter within the Chamber, which is generally a matter of House privilege. However, the clarification is given that it involves the outside. That gives us the mandate to look into it as a Committee. We will take action.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for this opportunity. In February, I sought a Statement that was directed to the Standing Committee on Education about hiring of a substantive Vice Chancellor of Taita-Taveta University. I reminded this House, when you were the Chair, about the same issue one week before we went on recess. You directed that the response to the Statement be brought by the Standing Committee on Education in two weeks’ time.

Up to now, I have not received the Statement and do not know where the failure is. I would like to decry the casual nature in which the Committee on Education is taking some of these Statements. It could also be a failure on the part of the secretariat to give information to committees, so that we get responses.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am stuttering because I want your attention. Your attention is important because you might need to sanction the Committee.

Is the Chairperson of the Committee on Education here?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I think you should give a strong---

Sen. Sen. Mwaruma, I am well versed on this matter and agree that you have a valid concern. Is the Chairperson, Vice Chairperson or any Member of the Committee on Education here?

I am a Member of the Committee.

Where is the report?

bad name. I urge Members of all the 47 county assemblies to know that county assemblies’ chambers are places where they compete in intellect and ideas. It is a place where they represent and legislate for the people who elected them. It is a place that puts the governments to account on resources that have been allocated to them to help the people. It is not a place for them to exercise their physical strength.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for devolution to succeed, we must ensure that we have vibrant county assemblies that will help the Senate to ensure that county governments are brought to account on the resources that have been allocated to them to expend. I, therefore, discourage this and pick the cue from where you left. They must conduct their business with the decorum that county assemblies deserve.

The last Statement will be---

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

What is it, Sen. Mwaruma?

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I do not know whether this is the best time to raise this issue.

What is it?

our last sitting, many Members brought questions especially on matters dealing with human-wildlife conflict, herders, farmers, and so on.

As a Committee, because of the huge number of statements, we agreed administratively to transmit them, but we will invite Members to one sitting where we shall have the Cabinet Secretary (CS) for Interior and Coordination of National Government, Dr. Matiang’i, his Principal Secretary (PS) and the Inspector-General of Police to answer all these questions. I urge all Members who have raised Statements to avail themselves. We will communicate in good time.

When is that sitting supposed to take place?

We have invited them and are yet to get their response.

So, you asked the Cabinet Secretary and the other officials to suggest dates?

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me this chance. I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.48 (1) to seek a Statement from the Standing Committee on Security, Defence and Foreign Relations on the rising insecurity in Tana River County.

In the Statement, the Committee should-

Sen. Mwaruma, I assume you are on a point of order.

It is so ordered. Sen. Mwaura---

Thank you, Sen. Sakaja. I direct accordingly that the portion of the altercation between the two distinguished Senators be expunged from the record of this House. It is so ordered and that is the end of that matter.

Next Order. Let us go to Order No. 12.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I think you should give a strong---

Sen. Sen. Mwaruma, I am well versed on this matter and agree that you have a valid concern. Is the Chairperson, Vice Chairperson or any Member of the Committee on Education here?

I am a Member of the Committee.

Where is the report?

without delving into the specificities of counties and what the counties can offer. The possibilities that would come from the counties as sources of income would in a way provide another avenue for own-source revenue which can be exploited.

This Bill specifically seeks to come up with a methodology that is non-existent at the moment in the Tourism Act, which focuses on national tourism to enable counties. We should come up with a way that we can have sites within counties that can be protected because they are cultural sites or have a particular item that is new or different. That way, if tourists come to this country, not only will they be exposed to the national sites that are there. They can also be exposed to the tourist specific areas, where they can go and enjoy the food and interaction.

More tourists coming to the country are no longer just interest in visiting areas to enjoy themselves. Cultural tourism is now the buzz word. You will find tourists who want to learn the language, understand and interact. We need to market Kenya as a whole destination, at a national and county level. This Bill addresses this by defining local tourism which had not been defined before. This Bill further ensures that tourists can be encouraged to visit as many places as possible that can be visited.

National and local tourism are the key words, and they have to be very clear especially at the county and ministerial level. I am not saying that we should not have national tourism. We are encouraging the counties to move to the specific things that they have within their counties, analyse and make use of their uniqueness.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Constitution designates trade, development and regulation, including local tourism, as a function of county governments. However, the Constitution does not define local tourism. The Tourisms Act is also silent on the definition of local tourism. It is as a result of this lacuna that the Bill now provides for this. At the end of the day, the purpose of the Bill is to make a provision for the development, management, marketing, promotion and licensing of local tourism by the counties.

I would like to scheme through the Bill quickly.

You have less than 10 minutes.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, just to indicate two aspects. One has to do with the County Executive Committee (CEC) Member for Tourism in each county, who has been given a lot of responsibilities. One of them is to identify, register and license these sites. The CEC is also required to come up with a strategic paper for the county about how local tourism will be developed within that particular county.

Second and important is the licensing and procedure for licensing. As the Senate, we are in charge of counties and the interests of counties in developing them and ensuring that they have a clean bill of health in financial matters. Therefore, I propose that this Bill begins to look at county tourism at the local level, to encourage own-source revenue within counties.

I beg to move and request Sen. Seneta to second.

Very well. Thank you. Sen. Sen. Seneta, I hope you are aware about the time constraints. Please, proceed.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I second.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, this Chamber will make us very fit. Indeed, there is concern about the rising levels of insecurity across the country. Even in

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. This is an important Bill to the extent that tourism, under the Fourth Schedule, is a shared function. It is both at the national and county levels.

We start from a point of lamentation; that in this country, for the last over 50 years, our managers of tourism have made Kenyans and the world to think that tourism is about wildlife and the beach. That is what they have been limited to. That is very myopic thinking. When they are marketing tourism, they only take pictures of the beach and beach boys, and then snapshots from Maasai Mara National Reserve and the Tsavo National Park. They forget that almost everywhere in this country, there is a tourism site.

Examples include how maize is grown in Trans-Nzoia County, the caves in Mt. Elgon and the dry river beds in this area. Everything is attractive to human beings. Sometimes you go out of the country, like Australia, where there is just a small greenbelt along the coast; the rest is a very dry hot desert. When you go to a place like Alice Springs in the centre of Australia, just because of artesian wells which are equivalent to an oasis in the Middle East, millions of people go there. We have failed to tap our local tourism because of lack of broad thinking, so to speak, in those who design policy, market the country and those who promote tourism.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, many times when I was in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and International Trade, I would go to an expo and Kenyans would be there falling under the weight of curios. All they would be showing is curios made of wood and stones from Kisii County. Nobody is there to market anything.

If we want to market our wildlife, for example, how come at the arrival desk at the Jomo Kenyatta International Airport (JKIA) , we do not even see rolling films of the Maasai Mara Game Reserve or Tsavo and Amboseli National parks? People in this industry are suffering from a serious mental block. This Bill will now open up.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, if you go to our counties - I am sure it applies everywhere whether it is Marsabit or Tana River - each county governor has a CEC is in charge of tourism and something else. I have called some in various places. I sit down with them and ask them what their portfolio is and what they do, and they have no idea. One told me that his duty as a CEC Member in charge of Tourism is to organize beauty contests. That cannot be something that you talk about. Nobody will come from Russia or China to see a beauty contest in Tharaka-Nithi or Bungoma. There must be some more and better products for us to market our country. Therefore, we want to change the profile.

I heard Sen. (Dr.) Zani rolling out some very attractive descriptions of our tourism comparable to others. However, how do you explain? A country like France has no parks or beaches, but it attracts 72 million tourists in a year.

When is that sitting supposed to take place?

We have invited them and are yet to get their response.

So, you asked the Cabinet Secretary and the other officials to suggest dates?

Yes. We normally agree on a date with them because of the nature of their office. They are not always in Nairobi. We have found a rhythm on how they agree on dates. Within the next 21 days, we will have had that sitting with the entire House.

Fair enough. I direct that the matter, alongside other pending issues on national security, be expedited and dispensed with within one month from today. That is so ordered.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, previously, I raised issues concerning insecurity brought by camel herders. I want to say one thing concerning the same, so that I am on record. I thank the distinguished Senator for Nairobi City County for visiting the people of Teri B after they petitioned the Senate. I would like to report that the issue could be getting out of hand.

Three weeks ago, a herder lured a boda boda rider, directed him to the bush and killed him. In retaliation, three days ago, two camel herders were killed by the public. I do not know how far the retaliation will go. It is just a question of time before it becomes fully-fledged war. The Chairperson should expedite action, so that the issue does not get out of hand in Taita-Taveta.

It is so ordered. Sen. Mwaura---

Thank you, Sen. Sakaja. I direct accordingly that the portion of the altercation between the two distinguished Senators be expunged from the record of this House. It is so ordered and that is the end of that matter.

Next Order. Let us go to Order No. 12.

Sen. (Dr.) Zani, I hope that you know we have about 15 minutes. However, if you think you can move that quickly---

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I intend to move very quickly, so that I can get seconded and open it up for debate.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that The County Tourism Bill (Senate Bills No.5 of 2019) be now read a Second Time.

As we all know now, the buzz word is ‘tourism.’ All across the world everybody wants to travel whether for leisure or business. However, it has some very serious implications. For example, in Africa, tourism has contributed to USD194.2 billion, thus enhancing and changing society in terms of what the money can do. Therefore, it has increased employment, participation and inclusivity over time.

Kenya has registered 37.7 spikes in terms of international tourism arrivals in 2018, which was an increase from 1.47 million in 2017 to 2 million in 2018. Kenya is the third largest tourism economy in Sub-Saharan Africa immediately after South Africa and Nigeria. Kenya is doing very well. It has created about 1.1 billion jobs in 2018 and the visitors come from different countries.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the nature of tourism has also not changed. Some people are interested in the astronomical aspect, others in the cultural aspect and in interacting with various cultures, so that they can bring out what these cultures are all about. This is very critical, and I think the nexus of this Bill.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the purpose of this Bill is to ensure that counties utilize every opportunity they have in terms of tourist possibilities within those sectors. That way, they will alleviate poverty, fight rural to urban migration, empower communities and come up with more inclusive and sustainable development over time.

Looking at the current trend, you will notice that tourists come and want to live the life. The tourist attraction here in Kitui is a rock, which myth has it that if you go round the rock seven times, your gender will change. If you are a man, you will become a woman, and if you are a woman, you will become a man.

Many countries go around a particular item about their country and bring it out to attract tourists to those places. Russia, for example, has very many castles. As a result of that, they encourage tourists to come to their country to enjoy sites, while they preserve their cultural aspects. In exchange, a lot of money is earned through tourism.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, earlier this afternoon, we talked about the issue of own- source revenue collection at the county level. There is a disjuncture because the Ministry of Tourism and their perspective is that they want to sell Kenya as Kenya. They look at the national tourism. However, we have local tourism, which is unfortunately not defined in the Tourism Act. As a result of that, the Ministry of Tourism only markets Kenya

without delving into the specificities of counties and what the counties can offer. The possibilities that would come from the counties as sources of income would in a way provide another avenue for own-source revenue which can be exploited.

This Bill specifically seeks to come up with a methodology that is non-existent at the moment in the Tourism Act, which focuses on national tourism to enable counties. We should come up with a way that we can have sites within counties that can be protected because they are cultural sites or have a particular item that is new or different. That way, if tourists come to this country, not only will they be exposed to the national sites that are there. They can also be exposed to the tourist specific areas, where they can go and enjoy the food and interaction.

More tourists coming to the country are no longer just interest in visiting areas to enjoy themselves. Cultural tourism is now the buzz word. You will find tourists who want to learn the language, understand and interact. We need to market Kenya as a whole destination, at a national and county level. This Bill addresses this by defining local tourism which had not been defined before. This Bill further ensures that tourists can be encouraged to visit as many places as possible that can be visited.

National and local tourism are the key words, and they have to be very clear especially at the county and ministerial level. I am not saying that we should not have national tourism. We are encouraging the counties to move to the specific things that they have within their counties, analyse and make use of their uniqueness.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Constitution designates trade, development and regulation, including local tourism, as a function of county governments. However, the Constitution does not define local tourism. The Tourisms Act is also silent on the definition of local tourism. It is as a result of this lacuna that the Bill now provides for this. At the end of the day, the purpose of the Bill is to make a provision for the development, management, marketing, promotion and licensing of local tourism by the counties.

I would like to scheme through the Bill quickly.

You have less than 10 minutes.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, just to indicate two aspects. One has to do with the County Executive Committee (CEC) Member for Tourism in each county, who has been given a lot of responsibilities. One of them is to identify, register and license these sites. The CEC is also required to come up with a strategic paper for the county about how local tourism will be developed within that particular county.

Second and important is the licensing and procedure for licensing. As the Senate, we are in charge of counties and the interests of counties in developing them and ensuring that they have a clean bill of health in financial matters. Therefore, I propose that this Bill begins to look at county tourism at the local level, to encourage own-source revenue within counties.

I beg to move and request Sen. Seneta to second.

Very well. Thank you. Sen. Sen. Seneta, I hope you are aware about the time constraints. Please, proceed.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I second.

Very well. For the record, the exit of the distinguished Sen. Mwaura and the distinguished Sen. Omanga is for the remainder of today’s Sitting only.

Sen. Wetangula, proceed.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. This is an important Bill to the extent that tourism, under the Fourth Schedule, is a shared function. It is both at the national and county levels.

We start from a point of lamentation; that in this country, for the last over 50 years, our managers of tourism have made Kenyans and the world to think that tourism is about wildlife and the beach. That is what they have been limited to. That is very myopic thinking. When they are marketing tourism, they only take pictures of the beach and beach boys, and then snapshots from Maasai Mara National Reserve and the Tsavo National Park. They forget that almost everywhere in this country, there is a tourism site.

Examples include how maize is grown in Trans-Nzoia County, the caves in Mt. Elgon and the dry river beds in this area. Everything is attractive to human beings. Sometimes you go out of the country, like Australia, where there is just a small greenbelt along the coast; the rest is a very dry hot desert. When you go to a place like Alice Springs in the centre of Australia, just because of artesian wells which are equivalent to an oasis in the Middle East, millions of people go there. We have failed to tap our local tourism because of lack of broad thinking, so to speak, in those who design policy, market the country and those who promote tourism.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, many times when I was in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and International Trade, I would go to an expo and Kenyans would be there falling under the weight of curios. All they would be showing is curios made of wood and stones from Kisii County. Nobody is there to market anything.

If we want to market our wildlife, for example, how come at the arrival desk at the Jomo Kenyatta International Airport (JKIA) , we do not even see rolling films of the Maasai Mara Game Reserve or Tsavo and Amboseli National parks? People in this industry are suffering from a serious mental block. This Bill will now open up.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, if you go to our counties - I am sure it applies everywhere whether it is Marsabit or Tana River - each county governor has a CEC is in charge of tourism and something else. I have called some in various places. I sit down with them and ask them what their portfolio is and what they do, and they have no idea. One told me that his duty as a CEC Member in charge of Tourism is to organize beauty contests. That cannot be something that you talk about. Nobody will come from Russia or China to see a beauty contest in Tharaka-Nithi or Bungoma. There must be some more and better products for us to market our country. Therefore, we want to change the profile.

I heard Sen. (Dr.) Zani rolling out some very attractive descriptions of our tourism comparable to others. However, how do you explain? A country like France has no parks or beaches, but it attracts 72 million tourists in a year.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, in Spain, during their archaic days of the dictatorship of General Franco, the fascist of the last vestiges of fascism in human history, it was still receiving 53 million tourists a year. Where did we take the wrong turn? When you look at the amount of tourists that we receive, it does not match with what we can offer, for example, our culture, food, fauna, flora, hills, mountains, rivers and our people who have maintained their culture like the Maasai. Therefore, as a House, we encourage our counties to market themselves.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I remember the scandal of the last County Government of Vihiga. I do not know if you recall when Gov. Moses Akaranga appointed some con person and sent him to Germany. He paid an office for him in Berlin as a tourism representative, and the person was just drinking from morning to evening instead of marketing the county.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, this was an abuse of opportunities and resources. When we tried to inquire, this fellow was not appointed in accordance with any regulation or laws. We visited Germany once and when he heard that there was a delegation from the Senate in town, he vanished to go and drink elsewhere. These are some of the problems that we have in this country. Sen. Faki, Sen. Boy and other coastal Senators are here. They wanted to build a bloc of economy.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, if you go to Australia, Western Australia as a province, has an office in London that markets Western Australia. If you go to Queensland, they have their offices in America, which market their country. I would want to see the coastal block opening up offices in our tourist sources, for example, in China, India, America and other places. You do not have to wait for the Government because this is a shared function. Tell your governors to think outside the box.

For instance, the economy of Mombasa has been destroyed by the Jubilee Government, and you know it. Mombasa is dead. Instead of sitting and crying that Mombasa is dying, become more innovative and think of what else you can do because they have killed you already. How do you resurrect an emerging phoenix from the ashes, so that you turn round your economy? They have destroyed the port. There is no port of Mombasa anymore, and you know that.

Order, Sen. Wetangula! When this matter resumes, you will have a balance of 12 minutes to tell us more about the death of Mombasa and the drinking ambassador of a certain county.

30 p.m., time to adjourn the House. The Senate, therefore, stands adjourned until tomorrow, Thursday, 19th September, 2019, at 2.30 p.m. in this very Chamber.

The Senate rose at 6.30 p.m.