Wednesday, 17th October, 2018

Hon. Senators, I would like to acknowledge the presence, in the Speaker’s Gallery this afternoon, of visiting Members and staff from the County Assembly of Bungoma. They are Members of the Committee on Delegated Legislation.

I request each member of the delegation to stand when called out so that they may be acknowledged in the Senate tradition. They are-

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, on behalf of the Senator for Bungoma, my good friend, Sen. Wetangula, who is not here this afternoon but because we have become very good friends lately especially politically, I welcome the delegation from Bungoma.

Order! Sen. Cheruiyot, what do you mean by “lately?”

We were batting for different teams but it appears lately---

Are you now on one side of the House divide?

Most likely.

Which one? Yours or his?

My side, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Order, Senator. Sen. Wetangula is not here but I think that is not contentious.

In the spirit of good neighbourliness, I welcome Members of the County Assembly (MCAs) of Bungoma together with their members of staff to this House. I hope in their interactions either with our staff or us, Senators, they will find that which they came to look for so that they get experience.

With those few remarks, karibuni sana.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, once again, I wish to welcome the

Committee on Delegated Legislation from Bungoma County. I serve in the Committee on

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, let me take this opportunity to welcome my neighbours to the Senate. I hope they will have fruitful discussions with our personnel and colleagues here.

I want to remind colleagues that we are partners in devolution and we should continue working very closely to ensure that we strengthen devolution so that services get to the people.

I welcome them and they should feel at home.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, thank you for this opportunity. I would like to welcome Members of the Committee on Delegated Legislation from Bungoma County.

I congratulate the county for having elected 10 women to the County Assembly. You can even tell from the membership of the Committee on Delegated Legislation that the majority are women. That means that Bungoma County is gender compliant.

Let us go to the next Order.

Sen. Wario, are you reading on behalf of the Chairman?

Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. The Chairman is out of the country, and I am a Member of the Committee.

Very well. You may proceed. Order, Senator! Order! Approach the Clerk-at-the-Table.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. This is a report by the Committee on Tourism, Trade and Industrialization on the factfinding mission on the management and operation of the National Park in Taita Taveta---

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

The Senate waits for no man. The next Petition is by Sen. Mwaura Isaac, whom I do not see.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to lay the following Papers on the Table of the Senate today, Wednesday 17th October, 2018:-

Thank you, Leader of Majority. Next is the Chairperson of the Committee on Tourism, Trade and Industrialization.

Order, Sen. Wario! Approach the Chair.

Order, Sen. Wario! I did not mean you approach your chair, but the Chair of the House!

Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. The Chairman of the Standing Committee on Tourism, Trade and Industrialization is out of the country, and I was instructed to lay Papers on his behalf. I was not prepared for this, but since I am a Member of the Committee, I beg to lay the Papers on his behalf.

Therefore, on behalf of the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Tourism, Trade and Industrialization, I beg to lay the following Papers on the Table of the Senate, today Wednesday, 17th October, 2018:-

REPORT ON THE FACT FINDING MISSION TO NATIONAL PARKS IN TAITA-TAVETA, ISIOLO AND SAMBURU COUNTIES Report of the Standing Committee on Tourism, Trade and Industrialization on the

REPORT ON THE INQUIRY INTO THE FALL OF NAKUMATT AND UCHUMI SUPERMARKETS Report of the Standing Committee on Tourism, Trade and Industrialization on the inquiry

There is another Paper, Sen. Wario.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. There is a Petition---

Order, Sen. Wario! Please, resume your seat.

Next Order.

Order, Senators!

We have a request for a Statement by Sen. Pareno, who is busy greeting the new Senator at the expense of your time. Senator Pareno, you can continue with greetings, congratulations and welcomes to the Senator for Migori County later; not now.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I do not have the Statement; therefore, I am not ready.

Is there any other request for a Statement?

Next Order.

(The Clerk-at-the-Table consulted the Deputy Speaker) Order, Senators! I want to rearrange a number of items on the Order Paper for today. I direct the Clerk-at-the-Table to call out the Order on Petitions to allow the Senator for Tana River County, Sen. Wario, to lay the Reports on a Petition.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. On behalf of the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Tourism, Trade and Industrialization, I beg to lay the following Report on the Table of the Senate today, Wednesday 17th October, 2018:-

Report of the Standing Committee on Tourism, Trade and Industrialization on the Petition on the fight against counterfeit and contraband goods presented by Sen. Johnson Sakaja, MP, on behalf of members of Nairobi Importers and Traders Union.

Well done, Sen. Wario. Have you read out the Petition?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, these reports contain the findings of the Senate Standing Committee on Tourism, Trade and Industrialization from proceedings during the hearing of the public Petition from the Nairobi Importers and Traders Association---

Order, Senator! Just table the report and resume your seat.

Chairpersons and Vice-Chairpersons of Committees, when you delegate your work, induct the Member. Do not treat the Senate to this kind of drama.

Sen. Wario, this is your second year in this House. We are actually in the Third Session.

Next time, the Chair will not conduct training from where I sit; maybe elsewhere.

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I thank the Member of the Committee for laying this important Report. Standing Orders allow us to make a few comments.

Yes, but subject to the sympathy of the Chair.

Please, can I get the sympathy of the Deputy Speaker?

Are you assuming that you have the sympathy of the Speaker?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, that is where I was going.

Since you are already on your feet, and in recognition of your office, we will sympathise with you. Proceed.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, this is an important Report that deals with such an emotive issue that is ongoing. The Report is about the fight against counterfeit and contraband goods, having been presented by importers and traders from Nairobi, through their Senator, Sen. Sakaja.

Before I say anything about the Report, I think we need to relook at the Standing Orders. I am saying this for the Rules and Procedures Committee, so that when such a report is presented, a Motion is prepared to debate it. I will comment on this Report because I had just five minutes to look at it. Even the Senator for Nairobi City County has not been furnished with a copy, so that he can read it on behalf of those who sent him to petition the Senate and appreciate whether it captures their concerns and issues.

Secondly, I want to talk about the issue of counterfeit goods. I am speaking as the founding board member of the Anti-Counterfeit Agency that was created to fight counterfeit goods in this country. There is a lot of apprehension out there and complaints from traders that their goods are being destroyed under the guise of fighting counterfeit goods. However, there is confusion about what is counterfeit, substandard and generally contraband.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, goods being counterfeit does not mean they are substandard. It is a question of intellectual property ownership. The debate is on who is the manufacturer of that good. You can have pens labeled “Bic”, but the company that manufactures Bic pens complains that they never manufactured them. So, some people are passing them off using their trademark.

You can have goods that are in violation of patent or copyright. Somebody could be selling a book called “International Law as Applied in Africa” by Kithure Kindiki, but the reality is that, that book was written by, say, Kipchumba Murkomen.

That is not a bad example, Senate Majority Leader. It is actually a good example.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is a good example because that is your area of expertise. The question that I am asking myself is---

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I hate to interrupt the Senate Majority Leader, but he has said that, that is your area of expertise, when he spoke about plagiarism and contraband. Can he qualify what he means by ‘your area of expertise’? Is it international law or plagiarism and contraband?

Sen. Sakaja, even before Sen. Murkomen responds, there is a rule called ‘rule of double jeopardy.’ You are likely to suffer double jeopardy. One, you are contradicting your Senate Majority Leader. You might want to consider the implications of political party activities outside this Chamber

and not here. But you are also raising a point of order in connection with a comment made about the Chair, and which the Chair said it was good.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I just want to confirm.

So, you are opening up something which the Chair was good---

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I just want to confirm for the record of this House, because I would want to believe that what my leader meant was that the Chair is an expert in matters of plagiarism, especially of academic books and papers.

Senate Majority Leader, please, confirm at your own peril.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, if someone says that a book out there with a topic related to international law as applied in Africa, human rights, matters of democratization as written by Prof. Kithure Kindiki, he is likely to be believed. I meant that international law, human Rights and Democracy are your areas of expertise. You have excelled and even taught in Sao Paulo, Hungary and other parts of the world. I know you taught my colleague somewhere in Central European University in Eastern Europe. I, therefore, know your expertise in that area. I just want to---

I hope that Sen. Sakaja has noted the details.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the point I am trying to make is that there is a problem when it comes to fighting counterfeit, especially if that fight is done outside the precincts of the law. The Committee that is currently dealing with destruction of goods, headed by my friend, Mr. Wanyama Musiambo, has no capacity or expertise to deal with counterfeit.

The Anti-Counterfeit Act, 2008 understood that the complexity of intellectual property requires that an entity is created with an expertise to deal with counterfeit goods. That is why the Anti-counterfeit Agency was created.

I can see my former student, the new Senator for Migori County, is nodding because he got an A in my class on this subject matter of trade and investment. He was a very sharp man.

Senate Majority Leader, you have now started competing with the Chair?

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. The issue of Trade and Competition Law and questions of intellectual property, preservation and protection are so complex that it would be painful to see that small traders in this country are being punished in the name of protecting intellectual property of companies that are not even caring to do any enforcement. Nobody has complained.

We are picking goods from people and destroying businesses, and the people who are suffering are the hawkers in Nairobi and many other parts of this country. I request the His Excellency the President to halt the work of the Committee that has persons, who have no expertise on intellectual property. We should then let the Anti-Counterfeit Agency be given enough resources to deal with counterfeit related goods.

Let the enforcement of counterfeit or anti-counterfeit agencies related issues be banned based on proper complaints and presentation of registered trademarks, patents and copyrights being attributed to people that are known. We do not to have situations where traders in Nyamakima and other places are being punished.

Today this morning, hon. Members from the Mt. Kenya region held a press conference where they complained that goods of many traders from that region are held at the Port of Mombasa. They also argued that there is violation of intellectual property rights. We ask ourselves who the complainant is. These goods are being imported from abroad. Are there local manufactures under the Kenya Association of Manufacturers (KAM) who are complaining that their goods are being manufactured elsewhere and being brought in? Which goods are we talking about?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we have a lot of apathy and pain experienced on a daily basis, no wonder there are many cases of suicides. There is a lot of unexplained anger in the country. Many people are not able to make their ends meet.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I still insist that with your wisdom, I wish a proper Motion would be brought to this House to deliberate on this very important report.

I thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Thank you for that suggestion, Senate Majority Leader. Nothing prevents an item which has been transacted in the manner as this to still come in form of a Motion. However, I hear your recommendation that if we revise the Standing Orders and have the two related by way of a Standing Order that would improve the situation.

Since this Petition was brought through Sen. Sakaja, I will give him a few more minutes. That will be the end of observation under that Order.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Allow me at the very onset to thank the Senate Committee on Tourism, Trade and Industrialization for having dealt with this matter quite efficiently and effectively. On behalf of the Nairobi traders and importers, I wish to thank the Committee. They were received very well and the Committee took time to listen to them.

I also believe the Committee was able to listen to other agencies interested in this issue. The only little blight on that is the fact that the Committee was not able to get back to me on this matter as would be. In as much as it is not provided for in the Standing Orders, it makes sense and is courteous as you wind up your hearings on a petition to call

back, especially if the petitioner(s) have been represented by a colleague in the House. I have also seen this report for the first time.

I would like to agree with the Senate Majority Leader that we need to look at our rules and find a way through which we give life to the responses to petitions, so that they do not go and find themselves in a certain shelf. There should be an implementation mechanism. There should also be a manner maybe through a Motion that we can debate it.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, very quickly, I would like to bring to the Committee’s attention that in as much as they dealt with this in less than 60 days, the traders and importers in Nairobi are still going through a lot of hard times. This market has, first of all, been infiltrated by Chinese. I will say it, although I am not supposed to mention adversely a friendly country without a substantive Motion. However, they are even competing with our hawkers. They have godowns, which open at 3.00 a.m. They have front people to provide goods at lower prices.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the fight against counterfeit goods is not a fight against our people, but a fight against goods that can harm the environment and health of our people. However, we find these anti-counterfeit officers confiscating goods and selling them in shops just down the road from these traders. This has to stop.

I am glad that even yesterday, the President noted and was even too embarrassed to read his speech because the Small and Medium Enterprises (SMEs) sector or the small traders and business people just because they may not be wearing suits and ties and do not come to the table like KEPSA and Kenya Association of Manufacturers, are ignored despite the fact that they produce close to 80 per cent of the GDP.

We need to treat them better, provide better subsidies for what they produce and make sure that we implement a buy Kenya policy to ensure that even these people who are manufacturing in their own rights benefits. Manufacturers are not just the big people in Industrial Area. Some of the best furniture we can get is along Gikomba or Ngong Road. We need to find a way in which to build these people.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, when we look at some of the things they proposed; I am glad the that the Kenya Revenue Authority (KRA) together with the Deputy Head of Public Service, Mr. Wanyama Musiambo accompanied me to Nyamakima where we sat down with these traders. I am glad that we have shown that Government can come down to them. We need to see more work done and I will be bringing a substantive Motion as Senator of Nairobi to deal with this issue.

Many are affected down the line throughout the supply chain; from the importers, people working in Port of Mombasa and the entire chain of this business. We need to make sure that we put our money where our mouth is. Since the Government is not in business, it should stop auctioning goods not collected at the port because of issues of demurrage cost and selling them to the same cartels who are frustrating small traders at the Port of Mombasa and in Nairobi.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, with those many remarks, I am grateful. I will look through these recommendations. With the leave of the House, I will seek to bring a Motion and even maybe a substantive legislative proposal to be considered by this august House.

Very well. Thank you, Sen. Sakaja.

Items under Order No.10, 11, 12, 13, 14 and 15 may be revisited in the course of the afternoon, time and circumstances allowing.

Hon. Senators, this is resumption of debate. When this matter ended, Sen. (Rev.) Waqo had the Floor and she has a remainder of 15 minutes. According to Standing Order No.33, the Senator who last spoke and had a balance of time has a priority to exhaust her time. In the event the Senator is not present when the Order is called, they lose that chance.

I cannot see Sen. (Rev.) Waqo, so the Floor is open for Order No.16 which is the Second Reading of The Petition to Country Assemblies (Procedure) Bill (Senate Bills No. 22 of 2018) . Since I do not see any request, let us have the Mover to reply.

I do not see any requests. Who is the Mover of that Bill?

Proceed, Senate Majority Leader.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

You are not the Mover. However, you have rescinded my direction that the Mover should reply. Now I can see several requests.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, many people were still on the initial business on the Order Paper. This is a very important subject matter.

The right to petition county assembly institutions is a constitutional right. If you read Article 37 of the Constitution, it is clear that such rights must be accorded. It states that:-

“Every person has the right, peaceably and unarmed, to assemble, to demonstrate, to picket, and to present petitions to public authorities”.

The Constitution expressly provides that members of public can petition Parliament. Therefore, we have provided in our Standing Orders, how that will be done. Consequently, there is a lacuna in so far as petition to county assemblies is concerned. Therefore, nothing prevents members of public from generating a petition to county assemblies. It was a good idea that the Mover of this Bill came up with the principles that govern and guide that kind of petition and what county assemblies need to do when a petition is presented to them from the members of the public.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, our experience in this Parliament has shown that members of public are slowly understanding and appreciating their role in so far as using their institutions such as the Senate. If I am not wrong, statistics would show that Senators entertain the highest number of petitions from members of the public. These petitions have had very positive impact. I am happy today that one of the dailies positively reported the Petition by Sen. Mwaura concerning the making of coins, notes and currency that will make it easy for those who cannot see to recognize the different amounts of currency.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, some of the petitions that have come to this House have led to solutions to problems. This includes issues to do with dams, for example, the issue of Solai Dam. The Committee did a fantastic job and the recommendations are now being implemented by the enforcement agencies. It has also raised the necessary awareness to ensure that the menace that relates to construction of substandard dams is addressed. Therefore, what Sen. Judith Pareno has said is---

In my first reading of this Bill, I concluded that it may not have been necessary to have a Bill. However, we have no capacity at the national level to force every county assembly to come up with a procedure in their Standing Orders on Petitions. Since the Constitution says that we enact laws that will be applied across the country, I have changed my mind and support the position that we must provide the principles and the framework that will make it mandatory for every county assembly to provide for a procedure in their Standing Orders of how citizens of this Republic will present their petitions.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I like the fact that first, the petition must be simple. Government and governance were meant to be simple. The intention under this Constitution and the language used in drafting it was so simplified to make it possible for a common mwananchi to be able to read, appreciate and understand. In fact, our older Constitution was clear that interpretation of the Constitution was the job of the Judiciary. However, in the current Constitution of Kenya 2010, it is the duty of every citizen of this Republic to interpret the Constitution as it applies. It is only that the last institution of interpretation is the Judiciary.

However, every one of us has a responsibility to read, appreciate, understand and apply the Constitution based on their understanding of what it stands for. I am happy that, to start with, the Mover of this Bill has provided in Clause 3 which states:-

“A petition to a county assembly shall be in the form set out in the Schedule and shall:-

Order, Senate Majority Leader! Why is that?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the people of Tharaka-Nithi are among the minority groups in Kenya. I do not know whether the Bible has been translated to Kitharaka? We had that conversation with you.

The Chair does not know. You should look for the Senator of Tharaka-Nithi, he might know. However, it is noted.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, that might be one way of preserving language. Our county assemblies are localized, so they should be allowed to debate in their mother-tongue as long as it is understood by everybody in the House and where it is not understood, there are proper translation services for people to follow the debate.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the point I am trying to make is that, let us make the petitions as simple as possible.

Order, Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. Proceed, the Senate Majority Leader.

If we are to push the citizens to elect MCAs who can draft, move Bills and Motions, then there must be a mechanism of putting pressure on those elected leaders to perform well which can be done by making their debates public.

When we first came here, we struggled. We were good debaters out there but when we came here and hade to stand in this very important podium for the first time to debate on a Bill, one can shake, sweat, but over time, you get to improve. You have to prepare when you know that what you are doing is being watched across the country.

Are you confirming that you used to sweat?

It is possible, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. You see how difficult it is for a Member of this House to Table a report for the first time but when they do it the next day and the next day, they get used to it. It is the expectation that is out there that makes people to work hard and perform better. Sen. Cheruiyot, who is also a Commissioner, sits in the Committee on Information, Communication and Technology and Vice Chairperson is here. They need to explore ways, in that Committee, of making it mandatory for county assemblies to broadcast their debates.

They should also look at how to make it affordable and cheap. One way of making the Kenya Broadcasting Corporation (KBC) , as a public parastatal, relevant is to prepare, and that Committee can do that, and engage KBC to see how they can extrapolate their existing licences to create 47 broadcasting channels for every county. For the time being, they can make the broadcasting go online. Almost everybody is on Facebook and if this is online, one can go to the site of their county and listen to the debates of county ‘x’.

We are told that there is a debate in a particular assembly and we sometimes hear that they want to remove the speaker of county ‘x’. They even chase the media as it was reported in one of the media houses that all the media houses were locked out in a particular county assembly for them to chase out the speaker. That is criminal, if I may borrow the word of an MCA of Nairobi City County. We must allow the public to follow conversation and debates that are taking place in our counties.

I hope the Vice Chairperson is listening to me. Let us invite KBC and see the kind of proposals that they can make together with the small honoraria that could perhaps be paid by every county to facilitate that broadcast so as to make our national broadcast national but also viable. It is only the KBC that can reach all over the country. It is clear in Turkana and many other parts of the country where some of the media houses, popular as they may be, cannot reach. This is because they are more popular in these other areas and not in the marginalised areas.

It is important that we do so. If we do so, the petitions that are going to be brought by members of public on issues that are related to our counties will double or even triple. This is because they will see their issues being addressed. The law says that an MCA is not eligible to present a petition on his or her own behalf because the standing orders have mechanisms that take care of an MCA. The MCA can bring a statement to the House, make a statement in the House, come with a Motion, Bill or even ask questions in

the House. That is important because it makes petitions an exclusive purview of members of the public.

However, a senator and a governor can present a petition to the county assembly because they are not MCAs. There is nothing that blocks the President from making a petition to a county assembly that, ‘I want you to consider this and that’. For a very long time, we have made people in this country who hold positions look like they must appear to be a rare breed, scarce commodity and look mysterious for them to look powerful. Leadership is not about looking mysterious or rare, you can be simple the way Jesus was and be a good leader.

I am not so sure about this but I hope that it is true for I hear that the Governor for Makueni County spends more time with old people and young children. I have said that I am being careful because pictures can sometimes mislead. When members of the public see Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. doing something, they make a decision based on that.

I saw a Member of Parliament who was helping build a house for a widow in his constituency, which is a good thing, but people picked that and said that this is the humble one and the other one is useless. They do not even know how many people are building many things for other people but they do not broadcast. That is why I was careful although I have seen my teacher, hon. (Prof.) Kibwana, who is the Governor of Makueni County, in the pictures setting a good example by sitting somewhere in the village with the people and listening to their conversations.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, you will remember that when we joined Parliament, everyone was fighting to be the “big man”. There was a big man syndrome in the country. Nobody wanted to be the last one to speak because everyone wanted to be the first one to speak in a function. I remember we went with you to Baringo and at that time you were the Senate Majority Leader. Many Members of the National Assembly were saying that Senate is a small and useless House with a small group whose work is to burry dogs and the only legislation that Senators should do are things that deal with burial of animals.

You did something and that was good. You stood and said that we accepted as the Senate to become the “small people” and we could speak even before the MCAs. You concluded by saying that the Bible says that those who shall be humble like small children shall be exalted. After that, every MP said that they are not “big” but humble servants of the people. There is a disease where people think that being a big person is by virtue of what you own, how you wear, what you drive and so on, but that is not the case. It is the humility to serve. So, public service should make it possible for each one of us to serve.

For sure, I know that it is not for the Senate but for county assemblies. Somebody could be having something but maybe they have no other process of making the information formal to the county assembly but through the Senate and addressed to the county assembly. They can still do a petition to the county assembly to inform MCAs about it insofar as, for example, building a youth polytechnic in a particular area is concerned and they want them to consider.

That is humility of service and we are on record about that. We are even setting an example to MCAs, that when they deal with locals in their areas, they should not show them that they are big people. Every time we have told MCAs that

they are strong, important, useful and they have a constitutional job to do. They are the ones who budget for counties and oversight them. We tell them that development of the counties is dependent on them but they do not listen. One way of making them understand that they are such an important entity is to get a petition from their Senator. That is when they will know they have a role to play and the Senator has certain expectations from them.

It was expected that MCAs should be an avenue to be used by retired public servants like professors. We need to create a culture that where a retired professor in Chwele or Kapsokwony in Bungoma County with great knowledge should prepare a petition and send to the county assembly in Bungoma. When they come to sit in the Gallery here, we will recognise them as having petitioned the county assembly and being invited to appear before a committee.

I wish county assemblies appreciated that they have such wonderful opportunity to tap into the great knowledge from different people. I have told my county assembly and insisted that though petitions, they can get citizens of this Republic--- Through public participation, they should encourage retired teachers and public servants in counties who have wealth of knowledge and experience which should be utilised via petitions on behalf of the ordinary people at the local level.

I like the fact that there is a qualification---

What is it, Sen. Ochilo Ayacko?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, would you want him to use his maiden time to ask me a question?

Sen. Ayacko, are you on an intervention?

The Senator for Migori County (Sen. Ochilo-Ayacko) : No. Sorry, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Okay. Proceed, Senate Majority Leader.

No. Sorry, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Okay. Proceed, Senate Majority Leader.

I knew it was not intentional because being a former legislator, he is aware that his maiden speech time might be well utilised.

I think he was orienting himself with the gadgets of this side of Government.

Senate Majority Leader, you may conclude because I can see the interest is high but we have limited time this afternoon.

I was volunteering to download as much knowledge as possible because, initially, there was no one willing to make that-- -

How did you know?

Initially, you even announced that the Mover should reply.

Very true.

You do.

You do.

protesting in Nairobi about appointment of Deputy Speakers. This is something that should have gone a long time ago.

Why is someone sitting on the Bill in the National Assembly? It is frustrating! I have said it before and I want to repeat it today. Today, you will be in the National Assembly and tomorrow you might even be a Member of a County Assembly (MCA).

I can tell you for a fact that there are former Members of Parliament (MPs) who are MCAs today. Is the Speaker for Kitui County Assembly a former MP? Yes, I know that the Speaker of Kiambu, Murang’a and even Garissa county assemblies are former MPs. All these people are now MCAs because you cannot know about tomorrow. I used to tease the Majority Whip, together with the Senator for Samburu, Sen. Malala and many others, that they were MCAs. Being a speaker does not mean that you are not an MCA, because you first have to be an MCA for you to qualify to be a Speaker.

Therefore, you can be in the Senate or in the National Assembly today, but tomorrow, you can be an MCA or a Speaker of a county assembly somewhere. A good example is that of some colleagues who lost in the elections last year – like the ones for Garissa and Tana River – who were rescued by in their county assemblies to become speakers.

Therefore, I hope that common sense can prevail so that these people can stop posturing, being unsure about themselves and looking for validation. They just need to believe that they are already elected as MPs and they should become leaders.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to support.

protesting in Nairobi about appointment of Deputy Speakers. This is something that should have gone a long time ago.

Why is someone sitting on the Bill in the National Assembly? It is frustrating! I have said it before and I want to repeat it today. Today, you will be in the National Assembly and tomorrow you might even be a Member of a County Assembly (MCA).

I can tell you for a fact that there are former Members of Parliament (MPs) who are MCAs today. Is the Speaker for Kitui County Assembly a former MP? Yes, I know that the Speaker of Kiambu, Murang’a and even Garissa county assemblies are former MPs. All these people are now MCAs because you cannot know about tomorrow. I used to tease the Majority Whip, together with the Senator for Samburu, Sen. Malala and many others, that they were MCAs. Being a speaker does not mean that you are not an MCA, because you first have to be an MCA for you to qualify to be a Speaker.

Therefore, you can be in the Senate or in the National Assembly today, but tomorrow, you can be an MCA or a Speaker of a county assembly somewhere. A good example is that of some colleagues who lost in the elections last year – like the ones for Garissa and Tana River – who were rescued by in their county assemblies to become speakers.

Therefore, I hope that common sense can prevail so that these people can stop posturing, being unsure about themselves and looking for validation. They just need to believe that they are already elected as MPs and they should become leaders.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to support.

Thank you, Leader of Majority. Proceed, Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr.

The result is that Sen. Sang is now the Governor and Sen. Cherargei is now a Senator. All this because of finding a platform to challenge governors.

I said this yesterday; that it is amazing that a governor is alleged to be having Ksh2.5 billion in his account. That county, for the last six or seven years, has been in existence, has never filed a petition even on paper; nothing! Something is wrong. I am sure that if we gave the opportunity to Members of Migori County and other counties to challenge their governors through this platform the way we have drafted it, they would have a method of making sure that they have answers.

Alongside this Bill, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we did the Fair Administrative Action Act to ensure that when petitions and matters like this come to the assemblies, they get responses. Just like what Sen. Murkomen said, we have made it easy so that ordinary Kenyans like mama mboga can find a method to file petitions without so much technical objections; and even in a language that is understood in those regions, whether it is in Tana River or Isiolo.

That is the method we wanted to adopt so that those Kenyans could find ways of challenging their county governments. Isiolo is on the radar because it is attempting to have a Public-Private Partnership (PPP) with a company which does not provide health services, yet there is no framework. Senator for Samburu, if there was a method for filing petitions in law, the gazettement of Maralal Town will not have been done before there was public participation.

Therefore, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, this Bill is pretty straight forward and I do not know why the National Assembly did not find it fit to pursue this matter.

The result is that Sen. Sang is now the Governor and Sen. Cherargei is now a Senator. All this because of finding a platform to challenge governors.

I said this yesterday; that it is amazing that a governor is alleged to be having Ksh2.5 billion in his account. That county, for the last six or seven years, has been in existence, has never filed a petition even on paper; nothing! Something is wrong. I am sure that if we gave the opportunity to Members of Migori County and other counties to challenge their governors through this platform the way we have drafted it, they would have a method of making sure that they have answers.

Alongside this Bill, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we did the Fair Administrative Action Act to ensure that when petitions and matters like this come to the assemblies, they get responses. Just like what Sen. Murkomen said, we have made it easy so that ordinary Kenyans like mama mboga can find a method to file petitions without so much technical objections; and even in a language that is understood in those regions, whether it is in Tana River or Isiolo.

That is the method we wanted to adopt so that those Kenyans could find ways of challenging their county governments. Isiolo is on the radar because it is attempting to have a Public-Private Partnership (PPP) with a company which does not provide health services, yet there is no framework. Senator for Samburu, if there was a method for filing petitions in law, the gazettement of Maralal Town will not have been done before there was public participation.

Therefore, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, this Bill is pretty straight forward and I do not know why the National Assembly did not find it fit to pursue this matter.

now, Nyandarua County Assembly is closed because they want to impeach the Speaker, and there is no press. The same is true for Kisumu, Nairobi and Kakamega.

In fact, now, we have new methods of impeachment. They are impeaching speakers and nailing the door shut. Yesterday, I saw the Serjeant-at-Arms of that Assembly being escorted, in a violent manner, to put the mace in the Assembly so that they could impeach the Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir---

The Deputy Speaker (

Order, Leader of Majority!

The Deputy Speaker (

Order, Leader of Majority!

What happened?

Yes, and I accepted.

So you accepted?

I have no objection.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I just wanted to inform the Minority Whip that as we speak, the mace of Homa Bay County Assembly is missing and the police have launched investigations. The reason being the same wrangles in county assemblies, where people are fighting about whether to remove the speaker or not. Therefore, to make the sitting impossible, someone must have gone and hidden the mace somewhere.

Proceed, Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. For some strange reason, I suspect that we have a problem in all our assemblies. I have just met the Chief Executive officer (CEO) of the County Assemblies Forum, and Sen. Cherargei has agreed, as the Chairperson of the Committee on Justice, Legal Affairs and Human Rights, to meet County Assemblies Forum. It appears that all the speakers in this country are on the verge of being dislodged by their Members.

The tragedy is that Sen. Murkomen proposed a Bill to have deputy speakers anchored in law and the court has said that there is no position of deputy speaker in the country. Like in Nairobi City County, if you impeach the Speaker, there is no deputy speaker, but there is an acting speaker. In the absence of the governor, in case of incapacity, then you have a crisis in the county. This Senate must intervene in this matter.

To conclude on this Petition to County Assemblies Procedure Bill, as you said, for a long time, we have been looking at methods of improving county assemblies. I have said this about the Devolution Support Programme (DSP) . I am not sure up to what extent the Council of Governors (CoG) negotiated with the Intergovernmental Budget and Economic Council (IBEC) and the national Treasury to capacitate county executives on financial reporting, but left out our Members of County Assemblies (MCAs) .

We must continue to say that the future of devolution lies in our county assemblies. We must build the capacity of our county assemblies. Gone are the days when MCAs were called councillors, who used to throw all sorts of things in an attempt to communicate. I am proud to say – and Sen. Sakaja can confirm – that the number of youthful legislators in county assemblies today is testimony that, that position very attractive. The turnover of MCAs is 95 per cent.

I must tell them that they have to serve with diligence or they will be replaced by another young person. It will happen because it has become very attractive. We must capacitate them. This is one method of ensuring that, first, we capacitate the public to petition county assemblies and, two, tame rogue governors; and lastly, ensure that the public we serve can find access to county assemblies and get their petitions heard. This is in particular to where MCAs in so many county assemblies have confused their role as oversight of counties and gone into bed with governors.

I support.

Thank you, Senator. Sen. Cheruiyot, proceed.

Before I get there, let me limit myself and quickly speak to the content and material matter of the Bill. Clause 3 of the Bill provides for the schedules or what would be considered the prerequisites that need to be met before we can determine whether or not a petition is properly before a county assembly.

Very good proposals have been made by this Bill, but unfortunately, there are some that I hold a totally different view about. Some of them were touched on by Sen. Murkomen and Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. when they made their contribution to this Bill.

Of course, language interests me a lot because, first of all, it is what I studied at the university. It is also because it is God’s gift to us as the human race. It is the only thing that distinguishes the human race from animals. This is the ability to converse in a distinct language only understood by a certain group of people who either share a cultural or geographical heritage.

Therefore, for us to seek to limit the presentation of petitions before county assemblies to only English and Kiswahili, I think we are falling into the already laid trap of believing that a good command of English or Swahili is a measure of intelligence. I disagree strongly and say that it is not.

Madam Temporary Speaker, one of the strongest petitions that I have heard of before was presented by an old lady who went before the County Assembly of Kericho and presented her pleas in the local Kipsigis dialect. This is because she had been moved out of her ancestral land and a tea multinational company had taken ownership of her farm. However, the petition was informal and did not actually get to be properly debated before the County Assembly.

Because of lack of proper procedure, the First County Assembly of Kericho quickly organised for a fundraiser to buy the old lady a small piece of land and put up a structure for her. I think she now lives there happily. If we limit the presentation of petitions to county assemblies to either English and Kiswahili, what will happen to such members of society who do not understand either of these two languages, but have issues that will ordinarily be addressed and properly settled by our county assemblies? I, therefore, propose that when we later get to amending this Bill, this is one of my proposals for your consideration, Sen. Pareno.

Under Clause 3(f), the Bill speaks of having the subject matter indicated on every sheet if consists of more than one sheet. I have a bit of a challenge. I understand what you are trying to cure here, but we do not want would be considered to be material evidence to be introduced to the petition outside of the prayers of the petitioners. Sometimes when we make law to be too descriptive, we end up curing more than what we intended to. In doing so, we introduce barriers to access of justice by the public.

Later on, when somebody challenges the procedure of how a petition ended up before the Assembly, you will find that even these small details like whether this particular regulation was adhered to in the format in which it was presented would come into play. If it was not, somebody may challenge in court and say that the petition was not properly before the House of Parliament. I do not know whether you wish to continue with Clause 3(f), but it is subject to your own thinking and consideration.

In Clause 3(g), I agree with her that it is important to note before a petition is considered and presented to the County Assembly, whether other forms of redress have been sought.

Madam Temporary Speaker, we, as a House, have been trying of late to promote the alternative dispute resolution formula. This is one of the ways in which we continue to push on that dream of ensuring and telling Kenyans that it is not always before a court of law, that they can find justice. Some of the fairest resolved disputes in this country were not sorted before courts of laws. They were sorted out using our traditional African mechanisms of sorting out disputes.

Elders from the warring factions were called, people would sit down and agree. At the end of the day, justice would be served both to the aggrieved and the complainant. Thereafter, everyone went home a happy person. He was sure that no money exchanged hands and there were no other issues that influenced justice.

I find Clause 3(h) extremely debatable. It is on the issue of separation of powers. As we continue with other discussion before the House, we should indulge our minds about this doctrine of separation of powers between Legislature and the Judiciary. To the best of my knowledge and constitutionality, judicial authority is drawn from the people. Legislative authority is also drawn from the same people. So, at what point do you determine that judicial authority supersedes legislative authority in certain aspects? The two authorities have been drawn from the same people. This is a constitutional flaw, because if a matter is squarely before a court of law, you cannot deliberate on it.

Parliament is the gathering of all the people. Every afternoon, all 47 million Kenyans meet in this House. Since all of them cannot fit here, they have sent a representative in the name of their Senator. Therefore, as a Senator, when I take a public stand about certain issues, I do it consciously knowing that I am voting on behalf of the two million Kenyans who live in the county that I represent in this House.

Therefore, to be told that I cannot take a certain decision because it is before a particular judge, I find it to be an insult to my intelligence. I wish all those who are good students of jurisprudence and such matters to give us a better understanding of this theory now when we are having all these discussions about referendum and so on. What it is that we need to improve in our laws? This is one area that we need to properly address ourselves to, so that we make a fair decision.

We want to know whether it is proper for us, as Members of Parliament, and Members County Assemblies, to be denied the chance to take certain decisions because a matter is before a court of law. Madam Temporary Speaker, Article 159(4) of our Constitution speaks about access to justice. It reminds us that access to justice shall always be without undue regard to procedure and technicalities. We cannot be told why justice cannot be served upon us, as Kenyans, because certain regulations were not followed, or we are supposed to have filled the petition in this or that format.

I urge Sen. Pareno to add a clause that says minor technicalities that are not in accordance with what you have proposed here, should not be used as a basis for determining whether a petition is properly before a county assembly or not. I foresee a situation where an aggrieved party presents a petition before a county assembly and the MCAs investigates and agree with them and issue sanctions to the aggressors. This is Kenya, and we know how things happen.

For example, somebody may say that the petitioner did not meet one of these requirements that have been put here, and use it as a basis to go to court and seek redress

on the basis that this petition was flawed on arrival. Justice will have been aborted in such a scenario. It is important Sen. Pareno to consider introducing an amendment to make the Bill be properly be within the confines of Article 159 (4) of the Constitution.

Madam Temporary Speaker, Clause 4(b) speaks about a petition being presented by a Member of a County Assembly on behalf of a petitioner with the consent of the Speaker. This is extremely important. One of the things I have learnt, as a legislator, is that sometimes when we make laws in this House, we make them with ourselves in mind.

There is absolutely nothing difficult for me, moving from my home in Kabianga – that is the village that I come from – to Kericho Town and presenting a petition, before the County Assembly of Kericho. However, the people that I make laws for might not have bus fare of Kshs200 to go before the County Assembly of Kericho to present their petitions.

As law makers, it is good that we do not lose touch with the people we represent here. We, as legislators, complain that members of the public gauge us by our presence in different functions within our counties. We attend funerals, weddings, barazas, et cetera. Sometimes we feel as if it is too much of a demand. However, that face of the legislator’s life is also important, so that we do not lose touch with basic realities. This has been addressed by this particular clause.

There can be a situation where members of the public cannot afford bus fare or for one reason or the other cannot present themselves physically before a county assembly and, therefore, can send their MCA to present the petition on their behalf.

Madam Temporary Speaker, there are two issues that continue to bother me. First of all, as a Senator, and also as a citizen of this country, a time has come for us to either suspend the business of this House, and say that until we have a proper determination of the process --- How difficult is it to interpret this issue of money Bills and the power to originate Bills before the National Assembly and the Senate? It is a pity that the life of this particular House, not a single Bill that has been forwarded from all the Bills that we have passed in this House and sent them to the National Assembly. It bothers me.

It is a matter of great concern that many of us, Senators, need to decide whether we can go to the Supreme Court for an advisory opinion like we did in 2013, when we found the going difficult. Of what use is it, for us to pass this well thought out piece of legislation, if we know that for the next two years, it will be gathering dust before the National Assembly?

Madam Temporary Speaker, we have been receiving calls and being informed that Government business has stagnated in the Senate. We are told two, three or four Bills that are before us that we are properly applying our minds to. It is not even for any other reason that, for instance, the Roads Bill or any other Bill has not been considered by this House. It is because Senators have got genuine concerns, that we feel some of the provisions in those Bills are undermining devolution.

If we do not apply our minds properly to it, we shall not be doing our work properly as Senators. You receive calls that you are not doing your work, yet before that very House that is raising all these complaints before us, we have ten to 15 to 32 legislations that have been passed. This is one of the legislations that we completed in the last Parliament. However, it is back before us. We will pass it, but I am not certain that justice will be done to it.

It is important for those who sit in the Senate Business Committee (SBC) to properly think through this issue and give us a way forward, as Senators. Otherwise, what is the motivation of creating legislation if we know that; one, it cannot become law before it is passed by the National Assembly, who have purposely said that they are not passing Bills that have been drafted here in the Senate?

With those many remarks, Madam Temporary Speaker, I beg to support.

It is important for those who sit in the Senate Business Committee (SBC) to properly think through this issue and give us a way forward, as Senators. Otherwise, what is the motivation of creating legislation if we know that; one, it cannot become law before it is passed by the National Assembly, who have purposely said that they are not passing Bills that have been drafted here in the Senate?

With those many remarks, Madam Temporary Speaker, I beg to support.

It is not the situation as it was before; that once you have elected someone, they can go, do whatever they want to do with the power you have given them, and then come back after five years to seek an additional mandate. That is why this Bill is important; for us to set standards for all the county assemblies through which an ordinary citizen of a county can present their prayers. These will be prayers on the issues affecting them as individuals, communities or whatever shade of interest they might be representing, to the house that represents them, called the county assembly.

It is in the same breath, Madam Temporary Speaker, that we were looking at the County Enforcement Officers Bill, as proposed by Sen. Khaniri earlier this morning. In as much as every county has the power to do that for themselves, it is important to establish uniform standards across the country of how democracy is expressed and even how enforcement of the law is done.

Madam Temporary Speaker, this Bill comes at a time when, the world over, there has emerged the need to redefine democracy. There is a lot of apathy in this world to institutions of governance by the normal citizens. Some of this apathy has been expressed through the BREXIT vote and the elections in the United stated of America (USA) before. The people are not feeling as connected to institutions of leadership. Remember that even where we are today, we are implementing a system of governance that was designed in the 19th century.

The world over, the holy triad of the judiciary, legislature and executive, was designed to run along the information technology of the 15th century, which is the printing press. That is why we put an advertisement in a newspaper and tell the people to come on a Tuesday afternoon to participate. However, they can never feel that they are engaged to deal with the immediate and present needs of the 21st century, where it is a world driven by technology and powered by data.

Therefore, Madam Temporary Speaker, this calls for creativity as we re-imagine democracy. How can an average person in a county assembly in Kenya feel that they connect, that they are being represented and that they have not been left behind? Every other facet of society, economy or industry has evolved with time; but legislatures, parliaments and assemblies across the world find themselves stuck in the past.

I will give an example where we had put out an advertisement, as the Committee on National Security, Defence and Foreign Relations, where we invited public views on a very important Bill about county enforcement officers. This was right in the middle of a county where Kanjo are harassing hawkers, young men and boda boda riders day in, day out; but only one person came for that public hearing. Why is it that only one person came? Why is it that, many times, when we call people for public participation, we get the same old crowd of activists and civil society composed of the same 10 or 15 people? The truth is that some of these people just come because of what comes along with it, yet Kenyans still feel that some things need to be done.

Madam Temporary Speaker, when we call for a meeting on a Tuesday or a Wednesday morning, yet one half of the people you want to come are in their offices somewhere, very few will come. Even those who come feel that in as much as they will give their views, they do not think these views will be taken into consideration. That is why it calls for us to use more of technology so that some of these things should be appearing online on Twitter, Facebook and on WhatsApp.

I am sure that if you get some of the young people in my county of Nairobi – whom I am very proud of –many of them are right now in iLab, NaiLab and various other incubation centres. We, therefore, need to create a space for them think and innovate how we can use technology to make proceedings of legislatures – both in the Senate and in the county assemblies – more relevant and immediate to them. Only then will we have quality engagement that is true with the people of this country.

Madam Temporary Speaker, even as we move along, I am glad to know that the Bill talks about English and Swahili being used, although my good friend, Senator Cheruiyot, has refuted that. However, it needs to remain as it is. It is not by chance that the Constitution recognizes English and Swahili as the official languages of this country. I challenge him to show us any county that has the geographical compactness of only one community or vernacular language, such that we can then say that in that county, if we present things officially in one language, apart from English or Swahili, nobody from any other part of this country will be inconvenienced or feel excluded.

This is very deliberate, because we are living in a country where people speak vernacular in government offices. That does not bring us together, as a people; it divides us. Madam Temporary Speaker, I am on record saying that if there is that old woman from the village who can only express herself in that vernacular language, let us provide translation services for the person. That is encouraged. We are even moving to Swahili as the language for Africa; how can we then regress, as a country, to say that, “Oh, let us use Kikuyu in Murang’a;” or, “let us use Maasai in Kajiado” when it is already cosmopolitan?

Madam Temporary Speaker, the County Governments Act of 2012 talks about not having more than 70 per cent of people employed in a county coming from the same dominant community. Devolution was never supposed to create ethnic balkanization in this country; that this one is for Nandi or Kipsigis or Luhya. Even within the Luhya Community, we say: “This one is the Samia or Isukha.” Devolution was supposed to, in recognizing our diversity, bring us closer together as a country by making sure that every part of this country gets a bite of the pie or taste of the cake. Therefore, I would refute any such amendment. Let us stick to our official languages.

The former President, Daniel arap Moi, said that multi-partism and vernacular stations would divide us further. I do not agree on the part of multi-partism, although it has, and which is why building bridges is very important. We should remember to see each other not just Kikuyu or Kamba or Luhya, but as Kenyans. In as much as we have different shades and cultures; that a Maasai dreams in much the same way as a Kamba does. The hopes of the Kikuyu are not against the aspirations of the Luo. We have more that unites us, as a people, than what divides us.

When you are riding in a matatu and it is tuned into Inooro F.M., Ramogi FM, Vuuka FM or Wimwaro FM, yet you do not understand it, do you feel more united with the people? Do you feel more or less Kenyan? Even if you are Sen. Wambua and listening to Mbaitu FM all the way from your county to Parliament, when you get out of the car, do you feel more of a Kamba or a Kenyan? These are hard questions that we must ask ourselves and answer. Therefore, I do not support this matter. We need to insist on English and Kiswahili. Let us speak our vernacular at home.

In Tanzania, there are more than 100 languages, but it is offensive to see somebody speaking in vernacular even if that person is in the remotest part of the rural area. That is why that country has been held together. The fabric that holds us together in this country is eroded because we think that somebody is greater or better because they come from where one comes from.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I have heard Members say that we have had challenges with many of our county assemblies. I do not agree when we address county assemblies in a patronizing manner; that we have gone there to build their capacity. Who are we? Many times, we also need our capacity built---

Madam Temporary Speaker (Sen. (Prof.) Kamar): Order, Senator! There is a point of information. Do you accept?

In Tanzania, there are more than 100 languages, but it is offensive to see somebody speaking in vernacular even if that person is in the remotest part of the rural area. That is why that country has been held together. The fabric that holds us together in this country is eroded because we think that somebody is greater or better because they come from where one comes from.Madam Temporary Speaker, I have heard Members say that we have had challenges with many of our county assemblies. I do not agree when we address county assemblies in a patronizing manner; that we have gone there to build their capacity. Who are we? Many times, we also need our capacity built---Madam Temporary Speaker (

Madam Temporary Speaker, evidently, the good Senator was not listening to what I said. I did not say whether it makes you less of a Kenyan. I asked what it makes you feel, especially if you are in a situation where you are the only who does not understand that language. Does it make you feel more or less of a Kenyan?

Madam Temporary Speaker, in fact, to inform him further, I put advertisements in Kamba vernacular stations saying: “Nye nitawa Sakaja, na iniyumbanitye kumuthukumia ta Seneta wenyu vaa Ilovi Kaunti.”I can speak six languages fluently, but know that my ability to do that on its people--- I also put advertisements on Ramogi FM, Mulembe FM and the Maasai station, where I was telling them: “Entasupa pokin. Mesisi yesu nanu eji ole Sakaja.” I was telling them why I wanted to be their Senator.

I accept, Madam Temporary Speaker.

Madam Temporary Speaker, let me go back to the Bill. It is not that we do not know how we speak these languages. Our country has come so many times to the brink of the precipice because of tribalism. Whatever it takes for us to do, even if it means insisting that when you are in a public space we should speak national languages, let us do it. I know that many people will resist it because it might be unpopular in their different areas.

I am fortunate that, as the Senator for Nairobi City County with 43 communities, I can say that. But let us ask ourselves what is it that creates the feeling of exclusion and division; that if we do not have our person in position of influence, we will be left behind.

Madam Temporary Speaker, evidently, the good Senator was not listening to what I said. I did not say whether it makes you less of a Kenyan. I asked what it makes you feel, especially if you are in a situation where you are the only who does not understand that language. Does it make you feel more or less of a Kenyan?

Madam Temporary Speaker, in fact, to inform him further, I put advertisements in Kamba vernacular stations saying: “Nye nitawa Sakaja, na iniyumbanitye kumuthukumia ta Seneta wenyu vaa Ilovi Kaunti.”I can speak six languages fluently, but know that my ability to do that on its people--- I also put advertisements on Ramogi FM, Mulembe FM and the Maasai station, where I was telling them: “Entasupa pokin. Mesisi yesu nanu eji ole Sakaja.” I was telling them why I wanted to be their Senator.

boy was picked up from there and killed. We must address these issues and hold true fidelity to the reason we are here; to serve the people of the counties and the counties of this country.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker.

Madam Temporary Speaker, back to the issue of petitions, I am excited that once this is passed the ordinary Nairobian will be able to go and present their petition on an issue that affects them. I said earlier that we should not be looking at county assemblies in a condescending manner, thinking that we will give them capacity. Sometimes we learn from them.

Madam Temporary Speaker, people have vilified my County City Assembly of Nairobi, but I am very proud of those individuals. I know that they are honourable men and women, but in one incident they slipped a bit, just because of the behaviour of a few of them. However, they are honourable men and women. In fact, many of the Members of the County Assembly (MCAs) in Nairobi were elected with more votes than most of the Members of the National Assembly, and they must be respected. Let us see how we can increase, work better together and share experiences on how to serve our people better.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I am glad that one of the petitions that have been dealt with in the Senate is from Nairobi small business owners and traders, and I will bring more. I will encourage them to go out more and listen to what those issues are. Sometimes it is you, as a leader, Senator or MCA, who would advise people when they come to you on how to come up with a petition. A petition, as opposed to a statement or any other form of expression or as even a Bill, has a specified timeline. If any Kenyan brings a petition to the Senate, it must be dealt with without fail in 60 days. This is a gem that many citizens have never understood or realized that they have that capacity and provision within the law.

As we deal with the present challenges that we have, in fact there is one petition that was brought to me and I have been discussing. Once this Bill is passed, I will propose that the petition goes to the County Assembly of Nairobi. The petition is on the issue of extrajudicial killings. Yesterday, there were riots in Kawangware because of a young person who was shot and killed by the police. He was picked up from a recreational facility. I have dealt with a few more cases in Dandora and Kayole. I know some boys who were picked out of a garbage truck and shot pointblank. I think we are sliding into anarchy.

In as much as we have crime in this city, we need to make sure that we solve it. But we cannot be the same ones creating the problem and then killing our young boys. Killing the youth is not a solution to crime or unemployment. The bigger problem is that we are causing unemployment. We do not want them to steal, yet we are the ones chasing them when they ride boda bodas, demolishing their vibandas when they decide to go into trade and arresting them in matatus when they decide to go into that industry.

We are not providing, implementing the laws, creating the national employment authority and making sure that we have 30 per cent procurement opportunities for youth and women. We think that the solution is killing young people. It is most unfortunate. Through the Committee on National Security, Defence and Foreign Relations that I am a part of, we will look into the issue of extrajudicial killings. There is a reason we have the rule of law. If we allow the police to continue doing this, in the name of dealing with thugs, tomorrow it will be your nephew or son.

In fact, yesterday, there was a case of a boy in the United States International University (USIU), a university where many Senators might have their children. A young

boy was picked up from there and killed. We must address these issues and hold true fidelity to the reason we are here; to serve the people of the counties and the counties of this country.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. From the outset, I want to congratulate Sen. Pareno for this Bill. There was a petition that we brought here when I was the chairman of Nandi Team Transparency Group. I remember the first encounter when we wanted to present a petition to the County Assembly of Nandi in 2014; it did not end well. This is because, apparently, there was no standardized procedure. I ended up being injured.

Apparently, there was no standardized procedure. That is when I was injured. In fact, the reason I suffered injuries is because we were taking a Petition to the County Assembly of Nandi on Tuesday, 26th March, 2014. We were injured because there was no clear procedure. Fast forward to a few months later. Because it was no longer safe to take Petitions to the county assembly, together with the current governor of Nandi County, we appeared before the Senate of the Republic of Kenya and presented a very strong Petition.

I know that there were many recommendations that were made. However, I am happy because the struggle has started from far. Sen. Pareno should appreciate that no one will undergo the torture and treachery that I went through when presenting a Petition because it will now not be pick or choose. Therefore, this is important.

Madam Temporary Speaker, secondly, when you look at Article 10 of the Constitution of Kenya, on national values and principles of good governance, public participation is one of the key aspects of any open democratic society. Therefore, these ones are assisting in “oiling” and ensuring access to information as provided by The Access to Information Act that is already a law in this country. This freshens up and ensures that public participation is achieved. Most counties are in the formative process. Therefore, we still have a long way to go in terms of public participation.

Article 34 and 35 of the Constitution on media freedom and access to information are basic. We need to appreciate that Kenya is one of the third world countries where there is access and flow of information because Petition presentation is part of it. If you go to some neighbouring countries, to question, challenge or petition an authority is not as easy as it has been made to appear in this country. Therefore, I support this Bill.

The other day, we were working on the Impeachment Procedure Bill, 2018 and checking the process that we need to follow. This is beneficial to Members of County Assembly (MCAs) and how counties will be run, their capacity and to all stakeholders that will ensure the success. It is also beneficial to the agencies that we have in the country.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I do not want to delve so much into the details of the Bill. However, I must appreciate that this is a simple, straightforward Bill. I hope we will dispose it off as fast as possible. Clause 3 (g) of the Bill states that:-

“A Petition to a county assembly shall be in the form set out in the Schedule and shall:-

Committee on Solai Dam Tragedy went through hook and crook to ensure that it was

county assembly leadership instead of them addressing their core mandate of oversight of the County Executive. They should avoid having backlog of serious issues they are supposed to handle.

I hope the Members of the National Assembly will fast track our Bills so that we have serious laws in place. Our Speaker is aware that we can have resolution of some of these issues if we enact these Bills. I hope my colleagues will fast track this Bill and transmit it for the necessary actions to be implemented.

We will be proposing some amendments to various clauses in this Bill to fine- tune it and make it the best piece of legislation. Anything that will aid and facilitate public participation, is welcome. I am always a champion of public participation because we want to give wanjiku, olekenta, kamau, or kiprop an opportunity to air their views in the spirit of our Constitution. I hope that even as we go for the referendum, which we are not aware when it will happen - maybe in 2022 and beyond - we will not remove the role of public participation in this Constitution. Probably we will be proposing a position of Prime Ministers, two Deputy Prime Ministers and so on. There will be many aspects of punguza mzigo, ongeza mzigo, or many other issues. I hope that public participation will be retained so that our people continue playing their role in the running of the affairs of our Government.

given to the clerk to communicate to the petitioner, we allow him to do so within seven days.

Some of the petitions being raised are of an urgent nature and they require action immediately. Those are some of the issues we need to consider seriously as we discuss this Bill. When you look at part (m) in the case of petition presented by a MCA on behalf of the petitioner, be countersigned by members presenting it. This is a procedure accepted worldwide. However, this might be counterproductive because of the sensitivity of the matter contained in the petition.

Some people may not want to be associated with the petition despite the fact that they are the ones petitioning the Senate or county assemblies. This could be because they are working in the county government, agency or a public body. They would not want to be seen. Maybe they want to use an MCA to petition the county assembly on their behalf. By asking them to counter sign the petition, we might be exposing them and disciplinary actions may be taken against them. Therefore, Sen. Pareno needs to re-look at this clause and amend it accordingly.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I know Sen. Sakaja has raised the issue of capacity building for MCAs. I agree with him that this is part of enriching devolution when we bring such laws so that transition, growth and the influence of devolution will be easy. We do not want to hear MCAs saying these are criminal matters. If so, they should be reported to the police. As I speak, there is so a lot of restlessness in the county assemblies.

As Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. indicated, the speakers of the county assemblies are under siege. It is very unfortunate. We, as a legal Committee, have talked in county assembly fora to try and understand what is happening. It is a pity that nowadays a speaker of a county assembly wakes up in the morning and in afternoon he is no longer a speaker of the county assembly. He is rendered jobless by MCAs. These are issues that we need to address.

I am not casting aspersions to our colleagues in the National Assembly. However, there are some Bills we passed here and they have not deliberated on them. I urge them to fast track them. You heard the other day people were demanding for a Deputy Governor and specifically to be a woman in Nairobi City County. The other day, we saw Nairobi County Assembly MCAs ejecting their speaker. There is chaos in our county assemblies. Yesterday, we saw what happened to Kakamega County Assembly. Their Serjeant-at- Arms was being forced to bring the Mace so that they could have a sitting and elect another speaker.

We need to do something so that even as we introduce the position of deputy speaker, it will allow a seamless running of the affairs of our county assemblies. There are allegations of fights between clerks of various county assemblies and the speakers. I want to urge Members of the National Assembly to fast track the Bills we have sent to them so that we enrich devolution in this country. For example, they should prioritize the Petition to County Assembly (Procedure) Bill, 2018.

Some of these laws are very important because if we had the position of deputy speaker in place, we would not be having chaos and a mess in our county assemblies. We need to come up with laws that will ensure that the speakers of county assemblies are not removed from office on flimsy grounds. I do not know why MCAs are busy fighting

county assembly leadership instead of them addressing their core mandate of oversight of the County Executive. They should avoid having backlog of serious issues they are supposed to handle.

I hope the Members of the National Assembly will fast track our Bills so that we have serious laws in place. Our Speaker is aware that we can have resolution of some of these issues if we enact these Bills. I hope my colleagues will fast track this Bill and transmit it for the necessary actions to be implemented.

We will be proposing some amendments to various clauses in this Bill to fine- tune it and make it the best piece of legislation. Anything that will aid and facilitate public participation, is welcome. I am always a champion of public participation because we want to give wanjiku, olekenta, kamau, or kiprop an opportunity to air their views in the spirit of our Constitution. I hope that even as we go for the referendum, which we are not aware when it will happen - maybe in 2022 and beyond - we will not remove the role of public participation in this Constitution. Probably we will be proposing a position of Prime Ministers, two Deputy Prime Ministers and so on. There will be many aspects of punguza mzigo, ongeza mzigo, or many other issues. I hope that public participation will be retained so that our people continue playing their role in the running of the affairs of our Government.

Thank you, Sen. Cherargei.

Asante, Bi. Spika wa Muda kwa kunipa fursa hii kuchangia Mswada wa kutoa mwongozo wa kutoa malalamiko katika mabaraza ya kaunti zetu. Mswada huu umekuja katika wakati mwafaka kwa sababu tunaona kwamba Bunge za Kaunti zinaendelea kukua na kutatua matatizo ya wananchi katika Jamhuri ya Kenya. Kwa hivyo tukitoa mwongozo wa kupeleka malalamiko katika Bunge hizi, itawapa wananchi fursa ya kuweza kupeleka malalamiko yao bila ya kuwa na matatizo ya pesa ama ya kisheria ambayo mwananchi anaweza kushindwa kuyatatua kabla ya kufikisha malalamiko yale katika sehemu ambayo yanatakikana kutatuliwa.

Mswada huu utaboresha uwezo wa mabaraza ya kaunti kuweza kutatua matatizo ya wananchi katika maeneo yao. Tumeona kwamba, taasisi zinazo amua matatizo kama vile mahakama na mabaraza ya chifu, zimekwama kwa ajili ya mlumbiko wa matatizo. Kwa mfano, ukiangalia mahakama zetu hivi sasa zinalalamika kwamba majaji ni wachache na kesi zinazopelekwa ni nyingi. Kwa hivyo, fursa kama hii ikipewa mabaraza ya kaunti yataweza kurahisisha matatizo ya wananchi kwa sababu matatizo yao yatakuwa yanatatuliwa kwa haraka zaidi.

Muda uliowekwa wa siku 60 ni mwafaka. Mwananchi ataweza kujua matatizo yake yameamuliwa vipi katika muda huol Mwongozo lazima uwe ni rahisi kwa mananchi kuuelewa. Kuna taasisi nyingi ambazo mwongozo wao si rahisi kuuwelewa. Kwa mfano, mahakama; mwongozo wake si rahisi kwa mwananchi kuuelewa. Kwa hivyo, kama hii ni sheria ya kusaidia mwananchi, lazima iwe na njia rahisi ya kuwezesha mwananchi kufikisha malalamiko yake mahali ambapo yatatatuliwa.

Ningependekeza kwamba mwongozo utowe fursa ya mwananchi kueleza matatizo yake kwa njia ya maneno; yaani, oral presentation of the petition. Tungesema pia waruhusiwe kueleza katika lugha ya mama na iwe ni jukumu la karani wa kaunti ama bunge la kaunti kutafsiri kwa lugha ya kiingereza ama lugha ya Kiswahili ili wabunge wa kaunti waweze kulitatua tatizo lile.

Japokuwa tunasema kwamba muongozo uwe rahisi, tukiangalia kifungu namba 3(k), kinasema kwamba ile sahihi ya mwenye kuleta malalamiko isiwe imebandikwa. Kwa hakika, hilo ni jambo ambalo litapinga hilo swala ambalo linasema kwamba muongozo uwe rahisi. Katika kifungu namba 3(l), mwenye kuleta malalamiko haruhusiwi kuweka barua, viapo ama stakabadhi zingine kwenye hiyo Petition. Hii pia itatatiza wananchi. Wananchi wanafaa kuruhusiwa kuweka stakabadhi zozote ambazo wanaona kwamba zitasaidia kurahisisha kueleweka kwa malalamiko yao na pia kutatuliwa kwa malalamiko yao kwa sababu wanaleta malalamiko na dukuduku yao katika bunge la kaunti.

Lazima hiki kifungu namba (l) kiweze kubadilishwa ili mwananchi aambatanishe stakabadhi zozote ambazo anataka kuleta katika bunge la kaunti ili matatizo yake yaweze kutatuliwa.

Jukumu walilopewa karani wa kaunti kuamua kama malalamiko yana ambatana na sheria ama la, ni jukumu kubwa sana. Ninaona kwamba jukumu lile liondelewe kwa karani wa kaunti na liletwe kwa bunge la kaunti. Malalamiko ikipelekwa kwa karani wa kaunti, jukumu lake ni kuyapokea na kuyawasilisha kwa spika naye spika, atawasilisha hayo malalamiko kwa bunge la kaunti. Hilo bunge la kaunti ndilo litaamua kamati ambazo zitashughulikiwa malalamiko hayo. Kama yatakuwa hayana msingi, basi yatazungumziwa katika ile kamati na kuweza kutupiliwa mbali kulingana na vile ambavyo ameomba kufanya.

Ningependa kuunga mkono Mswada huu kwa sababu umekuja kwa wakati mzuri. Hii ni njia moja ya kuweza kukuza ugatuzi katika jamhuri yetu ya Kenya. Kumekuwa na usiri mwingi katika uendeshaji taratibu za mabunge ya kaunti na hata hapa katika Senate, ilibidi twende Eldoret ndiposa wananchi waweze kuona jinsi tunavyoendesha vikao vyetu na pia wajue jinsi wanasaidika na Bunge la Seneti.

Mabunge ya kaunti yakipewa fursa kama hii ya kutatua matatizo ya wananchi, itakuwa ni rahisi kwa wananchi kupata suluhisho kwa matatizo yao. Pia, itaonyesha kwamba wananchi wanafanyiwa kazi kulingana na vile ambavyo sheria inapendekeza.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker, for giving me this opportunity to speak on this very important Bill. In a sense, this Bill implements Article 37 of the Constitution, because it gives any person the right to petition.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I want to pay special tribute to Sen. Pareno, the former Chairperson of the Orange Democratic Movement (ODM) Elections Board---

Madam Temporary Speaker (Sen. Nyamunga) : She is still the Chairperson.

level bills and legislation, then we will not be achieving the objects that the Constitution and our strategies have laid out for us. Congratulations Sen. Pareno for this.

I stand corrected. That is a very serious error. Please, do not disqualify me, because I may not get my certificate for not recognising that you are still the Chairperson.

She is still the Chairperson.

petition on behalf of a petitioner should sign. I also suggest that we should have on that

Order, Senator. Sen. Pareno should be listening to the corrections.

I suggest that the schedule in English should also be translated to Kiswahili because we are talking about the right of the ordinary people to petition the county assembly. So we should also have a Kiswahili version which they can read and understand. I suggest that consideration be given to that.

Madam Temporary Speaker, Clause 4 (5) says:- “A petition shall not be rejected merely because it is not addressed to the clerk of a county assembly.” I wonder why we have this clause at all, when we have made it clear in Clause 3 (c) that the Petition should be addressed to the county assembly. Why this other clause which says that it shall not be rejected because it is not addressed to the clerk? That is why I was suggesting that maybe we say it should be addressed to the clerk of the county assembly,

attach any letters, affidavits or other documents. To me, confidentiality ought to be given particular regard in the matters that have been concluded. If the decision was on a piece of paper and the petitioner regards that as unsatisfactory, the easiest way would be to attach a certified copy of that decision to the petition so that it is clear. Again, the petitioner could say they are not happy with the copy and give reasons.

If the matter is pending before a court of law or other constitutional body, there must be something filed in that constitutional court. The document filed in court should be attached to the petition to make it easier for MCAs who will be looking at it. It should be easier for them to determine the decision of the relevant body and the grounds that a petitioner could claim are unsatisfactory.

What I am trying to say is that the petitioners should not just say that the matters were addressed by a relevant body and are unsatisfactory. They should give reasons and in doing so, it is useful to attach a copy of that decision. It is not just enough for somebody to say they filed a matter and it is pending before a court of law. It is better to also attach the decision so that people can see for themselves what is pending before the court.

Still on the issue of a matter pending before a court of law, I think that may have warranted a separate paragraph altogether. Maybe we should say that a petition should not be about a matter pending before a court of law. The petitioner should state whether it is pending before a court of law but we are not told the consequences of that. All we are told under Clause 4 is that:-

“A petition to a county assembly shall be–

petition on behalf of a petitioner should sign. I also suggest that we should have on that

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker, for the opportunity to contribute to this Bill. I commend Sen. Pareno for coming up with it. You allowed ‘Senator 001’ by order of precedence to speak before me, but then that makes it difficult to speak after the Attorney-General Emeritus has spoken.

Nevertheless, this Bill is important in strengthening the role of the county assemblies. As we strengthen the county assemblies, we are strengthening devolution. By having this Bill and a procedure for members of the public in a county to present petitions, we are making sure that they participate in the making of laws in their county assemblies. This will also make county assemblies interactive and endearing to the public, which will make their work easier. Also, capacity will stop being an issue. Members of the public will view the county assembly as doing something for them, since they will also be participating in legislation and matters dear to them will be handled through petitions.

Madam Temporary Speaker, this Bill provides for a petitions register. This is important because we will track whatever petitions go to the county assembly. That register will be available to any member of the public in Kenya. The Bill talks about some forms which will be standard that will serve all the counties. This will create uniformity and harmony in handling petitions to county assemblies. There was nothing wrong with each county having its own procedure, but having one procedure creates unity in diversity.

There were also issues on the role of the clerk and whether he or she is being given too many powers in determining the viability of a petition. We should note that a clerk is usually like the legal and administrative advisor to the county assembly and the speaker. Therefore, this is an office with different calibre of human resource that can go through each petition. There are various conditions that a petition is supposed to meet before it is approved for presentation to the county assembly by the speaker. All these will require somebody to go through them and approve. From “a” to “n” there are over 15 conditions that are required for the petition to pass. That requires somebody to do that job

I suggest that the schedule in English should also be translated to Kiswahili because we are talking about the right of the ordinary people to petition the county assembly. So we should also have a Kiswahili version which they can read and understand. I suggest that consideration be given to that.

Madam Temporary Speaker, Clause 4 (5) says:- “A petition shall not be rejected merely because it is not addressed to the clerk of a county assembly.” I wonder why we have this clause at all, when we have made it clear in Clause 3 (c) that the Petition should be addressed to the county assembly. Why this other clause which says that it shall not be rejected because it is not addressed to the clerk? That is why I was suggesting that maybe we say it should be addressed to the clerk of the county assembly,

Sen. (Dr.) Musuruve, proceed.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker, for giving me the opportunity to add my voice to this important debate. Let me begin by commending Sen. Pareno for coming up with this Bill.

The Senate is mandated to represent counties and protect their interests. That is the beauty of devolution. County assemblies come in handy to ensure that this is implemented. Constitutionally, sovereign power belongs to the people of this country. Therefore, we are talking about the common man and giving them a chance to enjoy the fact that power belongs to them. This Bill will set the stage, pace, procedures, protocol and so on with regard to how issues will be dealt with in the county. There is need to have a standard way of doing it.

Procedures are very important. For instance, who actually takes the petition to the county assembly? Where does it go? Is there any register and a follow up of the petition to the end? It has come out clearly that a petition should be written or typed in English or Kiswahili languages. Both English and Kiswahili are official languages in this country. Kiswahili language is a national language and a lingua franca.

Sen. Pareno should take into consideration the issues of Persons Living with Disability (PLWDs) , especially those with language challenges. There is need to take into consideration the plight of the deaf or people with special needs. For example, an interpreter should be availed to interpret exactly what the petition is all about. Petitions are not only limited to normal Kenyans. They can come from PLWD. Power belongs to all Kenyans, including PLWD. This Bill must be inclusive. We do not want the PLWDs to be left out in any way. It is important to take care of them in the counties. Their needs must be met both at the county and national levels.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I also support what Sen. Pareno said about language. The language should be courteous. Whoever will be drafting the petitions must be guided by some basic rules in language. This is because there is a standard way of communicating and in a language that is acceptable in our society. They must use official language which is courteous in drafting petitions.

Madam Temporary Speaker, this Bill seeks to find out whether the petition has been taken to any relevant authority before reaching the county assembly. If so, how was it addressed? If not, then the county assembly can go ahead and address it accordingly. If it was handled by the relevant authority, the outcome must be stated and the response availed. If the petitioners were not satisfied, then it is valid to go to the next level. That is before the county assembly.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker, for the opportunity to contribute to this Bill. I commend Sen. Pareno for coming up with it. You allowed ‘Senator 001’ by order of precedence to speak before me, but then that makes it difficult to speak after the Attorney-General Emeritus has spoken.

Nevertheless, this Bill is important in strengthening the role of the county assemblies. As we strengthen the county assemblies, we are strengthening devolution. By having this Bill and a procedure for members of the public in a county to present petitions, we are making sure that they participate in the making of laws in their county assemblies. This will also make county assemblies interactive and endearing to the public, which will make their work easier. Also, capacity will stop being an issue. Members of the public will view the county assembly as doing something for them, since they will also be participating in legislation and matters dear to them will be handled through petitions.

Madam Temporary Speaker, this Bill provides for a petitions register. This is important because we will track whatever petitions go to the county assembly. That register will be available to any member of the public in Kenya. The Bill talks about some forms which will be standard that will serve all the counties. This will create uniformity and harmony in handling petitions to county assemblies. There was nothing wrong with each county having its own procedure, but having one procedure creates unity in diversity.

There were also issues on the role of the clerk and whether he or she is being given too many powers in determining the viability of a petition. We should note that a clerk is usually like the legal and administrative advisor to the county assembly and the speaker. Therefore, this is an office with different calibre of human resource that can go through each petition. There are various conditions that a petition is supposed to meet before it is approved for presentation to the county assembly by the speaker. All these will require somebody to go through them and approve. From “a” to “n” there are over 15 conditions that are required for the petition to pass. That requires somebody to do that job

and it should be the clerk. I agree with the drafter of this Bill that the choice of the clerk or the clerk’s office approving the petitions was in order.

I would recommend an amendment; that in the Bill we have a limit to the period that a committee should consider a petition. It is not indicated in the Bill how long a committee should consider a petition after it has been assigned by the speaker of a county assembly. For example, in the Senate, a Committee should consider a petition within 60 days. We should also put a period for the petitions to the county assemblies.

I commend Sen. Pareno for this Bill. I think it is a good start towards helping county assemblies to meet their mandate.

I support.

Sen. (Dr.) Musuruve, proceed.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker, for giving me the opportunity to add my voice to this important debate. Let me begin by commending Sen. Pareno for coming up with this Bill.

The Senate is mandated to represent counties and protect their interests. That is the beauty of devolution. County assemblies come in handy to ensure that this is implemented. Constitutionally, sovereign power belongs to the people of this country. Therefore, we are talking about the common man and giving them a chance to enjoy the fact that power belongs to them. This Bill will set the stage, pace, procedures, protocol and so on with regard to how issues will be dealt with in the county. There is need to have a standard way of doing it.

Procedures are very important. For instance, who actually takes the petition to the county assembly? Where does it go? Is there any register and a follow up of the petition to the end? It has come out clearly that a petition should be written or typed in English or Kiswahili languages. Both English and Kiswahili are official languages in this country. Kiswahili language is a national language and a lingua franca.

Sen. Pareno should take into consideration the issues of Persons Living with Disability (PLWDs) , especially those with language challenges. There is need to take into consideration the plight of the deaf or people with special needs. For example, an interpreter should be availed to interpret exactly what the petition is all about. Petitions are not only limited to normal Kenyans. They can come from PLWD. Power belongs to all Kenyans, including PLWD. This Bill must be inclusive. We do not want the PLWDs to be left out in any way. It is important to take care of them in the counties. Their needs must be met both at the county and national levels.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I also support what Sen. Pareno said about language. The language should be courteous. Whoever will be drafting the petitions must be guided by some basic rules in language. This is because there is a standard way of communicating and in a language that is acceptable in our society. They must use official language which is courteous in drafting petitions.

Madam Temporary Speaker, this Bill seeks to find out whether the petition has been taken to any relevant authority before reaching the county assembly. If so, how was it addressed? If not, then the county assembly can go ahead and address it accordingly. If it was handled by the relevant authority, the outcome must be stated and the response availed. If the petitioners were not satisfied, then it is valid to go to the next level. That is before the county assembly.

Madam Temporary Speaker, the Bill says an MCA to present the petition before the county assembly on behalf of the petitioners. However, an MCA cannot present a

petition on his own behalf. This is very important because the MCAs represent their

I thank all the Members who have contributed. I now call upon the Mover to reply.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I rise to reply to very good contributions that have been made in this House towards this Bill. I definitely acknowledge those who have contributed to this Bill, starting with Sen. Madzayo who seconded it, contributions by Sen. (Rev.) Waqo, Sen. Murkomen. Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr., Sen. Cheruiyot, Sen. Sakaja, Sen. Cherargei, Sen. Faki, Sen. Halake, Sen. Wako, Sen. Were and, finally Sen. (Dr.) Musuruve.

I have noted their very rich contributions towards this Bill. All their suggestions will enrich this Bill. I am sure they will be considered at the time when this matter will be placed before the relevant Committee. Of course, there are suggestions that concerns petitions by groups that we should do public hearings. However, the Bill already gives room for them to be heard. It was in a modified form when Sen. Murkomen indicated that. This is because these MCAs live with the people and they can go down to see and talk to them. Those are some of the suggestions that will be considered. After all, the Bill is all about public participation. Therefore, if public participation calls for public hearings, then so be it. These are rich contributions.

Madam Temporary Speaker, there were concerns by Senators that have contributed that this is just another Bill that might go into the shelves and collect dust. We are bitter about Bills not being passed and approved by the ‘Lower’ House. There is this new or old term that they keep referring to as ‘money Bills’. You wonder which Bill is not a money Bill. Therefore, we might have to go for that final interpretation of the court on what Bills are money Bills.

Concern has been raised that this is just another good Bill that might help the counties. We are here to represent the counties, make it easy for them and ensure that devolution is smooth and running. However, if we do Bills that will be stored in the shelves to collect dust, it will not make it easy for us to have a proper devolution. Therefore, it is time for us, the Senate, to reconsider getting proper interpretations of what we need to do to ensure that our work is smooth and running.

Madam Temporary Speaker, there was a suggestion that we think about the Kiswahili and English language and how people can submit Petitions in their languages. A lot of issues have come up on how diverse we are. However, we must appreciate our diversity but in unity. Therefore, these are some of the suggestions.

I strongly go for the argument by Sen. Sakaja that if we breakdown our Petitions into every other language, it might become difficult. May be, we might have to borrow what the courts do; they listen to every other tribe and language. However, they have interpreters who interpret everything that needs interpretation. These interpreters are paid by the court to interpret so that nobody is left out. Therefore, we might have to adapt that kind of system so that at the end of the day, we do not breakdown everything into our languages. Otherwise, it might then disintegrate us instead of bringing us together as a country.

There is also a submission that we should consider in this Bill that minor technicalities should not knock out a Petition. This is a very important aspect that we need to note. There are suggestions that we cannot just knock out a Petition because it is not addressed to the clerk of the assembly. However, we can broaden it to ensure that technicalities do not defeat a genuine Petition by the citizens. This is noted.

This Bill was meant to help and make it easy for citizens to petition, communicate and to have a linkage between the county assemblies and the people and for the people to have a place where their grievances are heard. This Bill was meant to actualize that. Therefore, it cannot come in to consider technicalities against the interests of public good.

Madam Temporary Speaker, there is also a very strong argument of giving too much power to the clerk. For example, a clerk can knock out a Petition and it will not reach the assembly because he has a criterion that he uses to consider which one is admissible and which one is not. Therefore, we need to check whether there is too much powers to the clerk. Although, the clerk being the Chief Executive Officer (CEO) of the county assembly in some sort, could also have certain powers to thrush out a lot of things. There is already so much that is in the hands of a Speaker and all of us. It is always good to delegate some of these powers to the clerks for ease of our work. That is one aspect that we will relook at as we try to modify and have a version that is acceptable to all.

Sen. Cherargei brought about a thinking that not every other clerk is good and I might need to look at a modified version that will not allow any malice or political

interference. To some extent, the clerks serve to give proper advice to the county assemblies. Therefore, we should have a provision that, if a clerk rejects a Petition, he or she must have reasons for rejection. Therefore, that will make it easier for us to know that the rejection of such a Petition was merited. It is better to have criteria through which the clerk can vet and know whether the Petition meets the threshold than not give him or her these powers.

Madam Temporary Speaker, some Senators have also requested that we amend the Bill to include time limits for purposes of when the clerk should submit the Petition to the Speaker and the period within which the Committee will handle and process the Petition. That is noted and we shall make it better for all of us.

Madam Temporary Speaker, there is also a very good aspect that has been brought forth by the submission by Senator 001, the senior Senator, Attorney-General emeritus. I appreciate his contributions. He was doing it with a toothcomb like the drafter he is. He went Clause by Clause and he was able to point out very good aspects. For example, where there are repetitions like in Clause 5.

He also proposed that we allow the petitioners to give additional evidence, for example, affidavits and proof of a case that exists so that somebody does not come to say that there was a case that existed and it was not handled. He also gave us insights on how we can use simpler language instead of using long English terms that are difficult to understand and inclusive corrections on National Identification Cards (ID) and how we have phrased certain phrases. We have noted that and we will take it into account.

He also suggested that the Schedule that we have done in English should be translated in Kiswahili. There is nothing wrong with that because we have already acknowledged in this Bill that we should have Petitions in Kiswahili or English. Therefore, if we have a Petition in Kiswahili, we should equally have a Schedule that is in Kiswahili. That is acceptable and it will be considered with a little bit of clean up on the Clauses.

Finally, I appreciate Sen. (Dr.) Musuruve’s intervention that we need to consider and ensure that this Bill is inclusive of Persons Living with Disabilities (PWDs) so that they are not left out when it comes to putting Petitions across. That is noted.

I thank all those that have contributed. I beg to reply. Madam Temporary Speaker, as I close, noting that this is a Bill that will definitely call for delegations to vote, I, therefore, move under Standing Order No. 61(3), that you defer the putting of the question to another date.

The putting of the question is deferred to tomorrow.

We move on to the next Order. Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. and Sen. Sakaja are here. Therefore, as it was earlier stated, we will go back to Order No.14.

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I was confirming that my Committee amendments were withheld if we subsequently pass Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr.’s amendment and that is the case.

I beg to move:- THAT clause 5 of the Bill be amended-

Thank you, Madam Temporary Chairperson. I propose to move that Clause 5 be further amended:-

THAT clause 5 of the Bill be amended—

Thank you, Madam Temporary Chairperson. I propose to move:-

THAT clause 6 of the Bill be amended by inserting the following new sub-paragraph immediately after paragraph (f) –

Division will be at the end.

Madam Temporary Chairperson. I propose to move a further amendment:-

THAT clause 7 of the Bill be amended by inserting the following new paragraph immediately after paragraph

(c)

–

(ca)

the Principal Secretary in the Ministry responsible for environment. The amendments were circulated to the Senators.

The Temporary Chairperson

(Sen. Pareno)

: Division will be at the end. Clause 8

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move:- THAT clause 8 of the Bill be amended in paragraph

(d)

by deleting the words “that violates” appearing immediately after the words “an offence” and substituting therefor the words “that constitutes a serious violation of”.

The Temporary Chairperson

(Sen. Pareno)

: Division will be at the end. Clause 9

The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Pareno) : Division will be at the end.

Clause 10

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I propose to move:- THAT clause 10 of the Bill be amended by inserting the words “shall serve on a part time basis and” immediately after the words “members of the Board”.

The Temporary Chairperson

(Sen. Pareno)

: Division will be at the end. Clause 11

The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Pareno) : Division will be at the end. Clause 12

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move:- THAT clause 12 of the Bill be amended by deleting subclause (2) And substituting therefor the following new sub-clauses-

Thank you, Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move:- THAT Clause 13 of the Bill be amended by deleting the word “co-opt” appearing immediately after the word “the board may” and substituting therefor the word “engage”.

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move:- THAT clause 7 of the Bill be amended-

Madam Temporary Chairperson. I propose to move a further amendment:- THAT clause 7 of the Bill be amended by inserting the following new paragraph immediately after paragraph (c) – (ca) the Principal Secretary in the Ministry responsible for environment. The amendments were circulated to the Senators. (Question of the further amendment proposed) The Temporary Chairperson (

Thank you, Madam Temporary Chairperson. I beg to propose:- THAT Clause 14 of the Bill be amended—

Thank you, Madam Temporary Chairperson, I propose:-

THAT Clause 15 of the Bill be amended by inserting the following new sub- clause immediately after sub-clause (1) __ (1a) The national disaster risk management plan and strategy shall include information on –

Thank you, Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move:- THAT Clause 18 of the Bill be amended in subclause (1) by-

Division will be at the end. Clause 9 (Question, that Clause 9 be part of the Bill, proposed) The Temporary Chairperson (

Thank you, Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move:- THAT Clause 20 of the Bill be amended in the introductory clause by deleting the word “Authority” appearing immediately after the words “foregoing the” and substituting therefor the word “Committee”.

The Temporary Chairperson

(Sen. Pareno)

: There is a further amendment by Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr.

Clause 10

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I propose to move:- THAT clause 10 of the Bill be amended by inserting the words “shall serve on a part time basis and” immediately after the words “members of the Board”. (Question of the amendment proposed) The Temporary Chairperson (

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move:- THAT clause 30 of the Bill be amended-

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move:- THAT Clause 36 of the Bill be amended in Sub-Clause

(1)

by inserting the following new paragraph immediately after paragraph

(g)

-

(ga)

the administration and management of the Fund;

Clause 37

Division will be at the end. Clause 12

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move:- THAT clause 12 of the Bill be amended by deleting subclause (2) And substituting therefor the following new sub-clauses-

Thank you, Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move:- THAT Clause 13 of the Bill be amended by deleting the word “co-opt” appearing immediately after the word “the board may” and substituting therefor the word “engage”.

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move:- THAT the Bill be amended by deleting the First Schedule.

The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Nyamunga) : Division will be at the end. Second and Third Schedules

The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Nyamunga) : Division will be at the end. Clause 2

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move:-

The Division will be at the end. Clause 14

THAT, Clause 2 of the Bill be amended by —

Madam Temporary Speaker, thank you. Pursuant to Standing Order 148, I beg to move:-

THAT, the Committee of The Whole report progress on the consideration of the Disaster Risk Management Bill (Senate Bills No. 8 of 2018) and seek leave to sit again tomorrow.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Chairperson, I propose:-

THAT Clause 15 of the Bill be amended by inserting the following new sub- clause immediately after sub-clause (1) __ (1a) The national disaster risk management plan and strategy shall include information on –

Madam Temporary Speaker, I beg to report that a Committee of the Whole has considered The Disaster Risk Management Bill (Senate Bills No. 8 of 2018) and seeks leave to sit again tomorrow.

Mover?

Madam Temporary Speaker, I beg to move that the House does agree with the Committee on the said report. I request Sen. Orengo to second.

I second.

Hon. Senators, we shall defer Business appearing in Order No.17, as requested. We also defer the Business appearing in Orders No.18, 19, 20, 21 and 22.

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move: - THAT Clause 21 of the Bill be amended in paragraph (d) by deleting the words “that violates” appearing immediately after the words “an offence” and substituting therefor the words “that constitutes a serious violation of” (Question of the amendment proposed) The Temporary Chairperson (

Division will be at the end. Clause22 (Question, that Clause 22 be part of the Bill, proposed) Clause 23

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move:- THAT Clause 23 of the Bill be amended in Sub-Clause (1) by deleting the words “applicable contingency” and substituting therefor the words “county disaster risk management.” (Question of the amendment proposed) The Temporary Chairperson (

Proceed, Sen. Halake.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker, for this opportunity to contribute to this all important Motion on the use of Signing Exact English (SEE) as a mode of instruction for persons with hearing impairments.

Madam Temporary Speaker, the issues around exclusion for people with disabilities – be it in communication, instruction or in learning materials – and the gaps existing in all the structural and systemic exclusion have been highlighted this week. This Motion, therefore, seeks to ensure that our children get a chance at life and at education which would then include them and help them to pass examinations.

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move:- THAT Clause 36 of the Bill be amended in Sub-Clause

(1)

by inserting the following new paragraph immediately after paragraph

(g)

-

(ga)

the administration and management of the Fund;

Clause 37

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move:- THAT Clause 37 of the Bill be deleted and substituted therefor with the following new clause —

communicate with them. We need to look at this more holistically. Perhaps, we need to harmonise all the pieces of legislation that are facing PWDs, so that we have one major plan for them. That legislation should have all the sub-components of different disabilities.

With those few remarks, I beg to support. I look forward to working with Sen. (Dr.) Musuruve and other Senators in this House like Sen. Mwaura who have been champions for the PWDs.

The Senate Minority Leader (Sen. Orengo): Madam Temporary Speaker, I also rise to support this Motion.

The Motion is predicated on Article 43 of the Constitution but before I come to that, I also join in congratulating Sen. (Dr.) Musuruve for bringing this Motion. Typically, she is hardworking on matters that relate to the PWDs of our society.

This Motion is premised under Article 43(f) which is about the right to education. I wanted to point out that there is a more fundamental pillar on which this Motion should be based. That is Chapter Two of the Constitution which is about The Republic. It talks about who we are as a Kenyan people and as a country.

Article 7 of the Constitution provides for national, official and other languages. In South Africa, other native languages are designated as official languages. In our country, there are only two official languages which are Kiswahili and English and the national language is Kiswahili.

Article 7(3)(b) states that- “The State shall promote the development and use of indigenous languages, Kenyan Sign Language, Braille and other communication formats and technologies accessible to persons with disabilities.” This is more of a fundamental provision because once we say that the national language is Kiswahili and the official languages are Kiswahili and English, we must make sure that Kenyans are able to use the tools that the Constitution gives, which are Kiswahili and English. It means that if you are impaired or suffer the disability of not being able to hear and therefore the only way of communication largely depends on sign languages, then you cannot fully engage as a citizen of the Republic of Kenya.

Chapter Two of the Constitution is fundamental because it is about The Republic which talks about the territory of Kenya; devolution and access to services; and national symbols and national days. Article 10 is about national values and principles of governance while Article 11 is about culture. Those are the fundamental features of our society as described in Chapter Two on The Republic.

Our people are entitled to education and I have already read out the provisions of Article 7(3)(b). The use of Kenyan Sign Language, Braille and other communication formats and technologies accessible to persons with disabilities will bring the common will of the Republic. Therefore, it is fundamental that this Motion should not only just be passed but there should be legislation requiring the state to do what the Constitution says.

Sen. (Dr.) Musuruve’s Motion is well founded in the Constitution. The right to education can be general but this is specific. In fact, something just arose as I was sitting there and I thought of going back---

Sorry senior Senator, you have a balance of 15 minutes, which you will get next time the Motion is listed.

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I second that the New Clause 25A be read a Second Time. (Question, that the New Clause 25A be read a Second Time, proposed) The Temporary Chairperson (

Division will be at the end. First Schedule

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move:- THAT the Bill be amended by deleting the First Schedule. (Question, that the First Schedule be deleted, proposed) The Temporary Chairperson (

Division will be at the end. Second and Third Schedules (Question, that Second and Third Schedule be part of the Bill, proposed) The Temporary Chairperson (

Division will be at the end. Clause 2

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move:-

THAT, Clause 2 of the Bill be amended by —

Madam Temporary Speaker, thank you. Pursuant to Standing Order 148, I beg to move:-

THAT, the Committee of The Whole report progress on the consideration of the Disaster Risk Management Bill (Senate Bills No. 8 of 2018) and seek leave to sit again tomorrow.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I beg to report that a Committee of the Whole has considered The Disaster Risk Management Bill (Senate Bills No. 8 of 2018) and seeks leave to sit again tomorrow.

Mover?

Madam Temporary Speaker, I beg to move that the House does agree with the Committee on the said report. I request Sen. Orengo to second.

I second.

Hon. Senators, we shall defer Business appearing in Order No.17, as requested. We also defer the Business appearing in Orders No.18, 19, 20, 21 and 22.

Proceed, Sen. Halake.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker, for this opportunity to contribute to this all important Motion on the use of Signing Exact English (SEE) as a mode of instruction for persons with hearing impairments.

Madam Temporary Speaker, the issues around exclusion for people with disabilities – be it in communication, instruction or in learning materials – and the gaps existing in all the structural and systemic exclusion have been highlighted this week. This Motion, therefore, seeks to ensure that our children get a chance at life and at education which would then include them and help them to pass examinations.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I would like to congratulate Sen. (Dr.) Musuruve for being a champion for People with Disabilities (PWDs), because we have learned so much, as the Senate, because she has created awareness about the issues faced by PWDs.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I was not even aware that people with hearing impairment did not even have sign language that would enable them to learn proper English. Since they are not able to learn proper English and our curriculum is in English, they do not have a chance at all to pass exams or even communicate in English. I am told that the Kenyan Sign Language falls a little short of making sure that the Standard English is taught to Persons with Disabilities (PWDs), especially those with hearing impairment.

We have also been made aware by Sen. (Dr.) Musuruve that our teachers’ training colleges, universities, and middle level colleges do not even offer sign language training. What chance does a person with disability in this country have at all to learn, noting that it is a right of every child to have a decent education and a chance to communicate and be communicated to in a language they understand?

This again points to the rights of PWDs, especially children with hearing and seeing impairments. Yesterday, Sen. Mwaura told us that even our bank notes and coins exclude PWDs. As such, they are excluded from the economy and become targets for conmen, who take away money from them because they are not able to see what transactions they are making.

I support this Motion and it is about time that this House looked at every aspect of PWDs, be it sign language or access to buildings and other such requirements. Our Constitution is very clear that the dignity of a human being is not given; it is inherent. Therefore, it is for us to make sure that we do not take away from them by excluding them from communication and the economy because they cannot use the money in circulation.

We should provide the right system and processes in place for them to be educated properly and communicated to in the language they understand. They also need to have teachers who are competent in sign language and get the opportunity to transition from primary to secondary and university. At the moment when they move from one level of education to another, no curriculum exists for especially those with hearing and seeing impairments.

This points to a larger problem where about 15 per cent of the population that is disabled is actually locked out of everything. This amounts to denying of rights and fundamental freedoms. It also points to the fact that we, as society, are not mindful of our vulnerable groups. Sen. (Dr.) Musuruve has done very well to make sure that she not only creates awareness, but also moves these pieces of legislation that would ensure we put in place the right systems, processes and resources.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I am not sure if our budgeting process actually is inclusive. How much of the budget of this country - the Kshs3.1 trillion that we have as our public expenditure this Financial Year 2018/2019 - is actually allocated to PWDs? They do not even have the basics in terms of sign language, access to buildings and being able to transact and use money that is in circulation.

By every measure, we have excluded our PWDs, be it in terms of resources, systems, human resource to teach them and the curriculum that we are supposed to use to

communicate with them. We need to look at this more holistically. Perhaps, we need to harmonise all the pieces of legislation that are facing PWDs, so that we have one major plan for them. That legislation should have all the sub-components of different disabilities.With those few remarks, I beg to support. I look forward to working with

Madam Temporary Speaker, I also rise to support this Motion.The Motion is predicated on Article 43 of the Constitution but before I come to that, I also join in congratulating Sen. (Dr.) Musuruve for bringing this Motion. Typically, she is hardworking on matters that relate to the PWDs of our society.This Motion is premised under Article 43(f) which is about the right to education. I wanted to point out that there is a more fundamental pillar on which this Motion should be based. That is Chapter Two of the Constitution which is about The Republic. It talks about who we are as a Kenyan people and as a country.Article 7 of the Constitution provides for national, official and other languages. In South Africa, other native languages are designated as official languages. In our country, there are only two official languages which are Kiswahili and English and the national language is Kiswahili.Article 7(3)(b) states that- “The State shall promote the development and use of indigenous languages, Kenyan Sign Language, Braille and other communication formats and technologies accessible to persons with disabilities.” This is more of a fundamental provision because once we say that the national language is Kiswahili and the official languages are Kiswahili and English, we must make sure that Kenyans are able to use the tools that the Constitution gives, which are Kiswahili and English. It means that if you are impaired or suffer the disability of not being able to hear and therefore the only way of communication largely depends on sign languages, then you cannot fully engage as a citizen of the Republic of Kenya.Chapter Two of the Constitution is fundamental because it is about The Republic which talks about the territory of Kenya; devolution and access to services; and national symbols and national days. Article 10 is about national values and principles of governance while Article 11 is about culture. Those are the fundamental features of our society as described in Chapter Two on The Republic.Our people are entitled to education and I have already read out the provisions of Article 7(3)(b). The use of Kenyan Sign Language, Braille and other communication formats and technologies accessible to persons with disabilities will bring the common will of the Republic. Therefore, it is fundamental that this Motion should not only just be passed but there should be legislation requiring the state to do what the Constitution says.Sen. (Dr.) Musuruve’s Motion is well founded in the Constitution. The right to education can be general but this is specific. In fact, something just arose as I was sitting there and I thought of going back---

Sorry senior Senator, you have a balance of 15 minutes, which you will get next time the Motion is listed.

Hon. Senators, it is now 6.30 p.m., time to interrupt the business of the House. The Senate, therefore, stands adjourned until tomorrow, Thursday, 18th October, 2018, at 2.30 p.m.

The Senate rose at 6.30 p.m.