Wednesday, 13th March, 2024 Afternoon Sitting

Hon. Senators, I am informed that we now have quorum. Senator for Nandi County, kindly, take your seat.

Clerk, proceed to the call the first Order.

Sen. Mandago and Sen. Tabitha Mutinda, kindly, take your seats so that I can make this Communication.

Hon. Senators at the rise of the House, after the morning sitting, I had indeed indicated that I was going to deliver my ruling this afternoon. The ruling is not ready yet, it is being typed. Therefore, I invoke Standing Order No.1 to suspend the sitting for half an hour, to allow the ruling to be typed. Once we reconvene, I will be in a position to deliver that ruling.

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As you may have noticed, we cannot proceed unless we dispense with the matters that had been raised in the form of preliminary objections.

Hon. Senators, kindly, be upstanding. This sitting is suspended for half-an-hour. We shall reconvene after that time.

Order, Hon. Senators, welcome back. Clerk, kindly, proceed to call the first Order.

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The counsel for the Deputy Governor urged that everything not communicated with the County Assembly, in its transmittal letter dated 1st March, 2024, be expunged from the record.

Counsel for the Deputy Governor also objected to the summoning of Mr. Haggai Oyagi as this would violate the Deputy Governor’s right to a fair hearing as enshrined in Article 50 of the Constitution.

The Defense of the Deputy Governor also raised a preliminary objection to the effect that the impeachment proceedings at the county assembly were conducted outside the timelines provided for in the County Governments Act and Standing Orders of Kisii County Assembly and were therefore fatally incompetent.

Hon. Senators, ladies and gentlemen, the final matter which arose and which this ruling will address was the matter of the appearance in the defense team of the Deputy Governor of Hon. Sylvanus Osoro, a Member of Parliament (MP) serving in the National Assembly, who is also the Majority Whip.

Rule 30 of the Rules of Procedure when considering the proposed removal of a governor in plenary as contained in the Third Schedule to the Senate Standing Orders provides as follows-

“Where particular question or matter including but not limited to questions of evidence, materiality, relevance, competence or

admissibility of evidence and any questions consequential or

incidental thereto, no provision has been made in the Standing Orders

or in these Rules, the Speaker of the Senate shall rule on the question or matter and the ruling of the Speaker shall be final.”

As rightfully pointed out by Sen. Sifuna, Rule 30 applies in circumstances where no provision has been made in the Standing Orders or these Rules. Where the Standing Orders and the Rules make provisions, naturally those provisions apply.

Hon. Senators, ladies and gentlemen, as you will be aware the timelines provided for the disposal of these impeachment proceedings are tight. As you are also aware, the Senate while conducting the impeachment process is sitting as a tribunal in a quasi- judicial capacity. Article 159(2) of the Constitution requires that in exercising judicial authority, courts and tribunals be guided by certain principles, among them that justice be administered without undue delay or undue regard to procedural technicalities. It also requires that the purposes and principles of the Constitution be protected and promoted.

Additionally, the Constitution under Article 259 requires interpretation of the Constitution that promotes its purpose, values and principles, that advances the rule of law and contributes to good governance.

Hon. Senators, applying the Constitution, the County Governments Act, the Senate Standing Orders and the applicable rules, I rule as follows on the matters raised-

Director of Enforcement and Compliance County Government of Kisii pursuant to Rule 10, the same is permissible and is hereby allowed. With the caveat under Rule 20, that his evidence can only relate to the charges that were the basis of impeachment as read to the Deputy Governor. This is in recognition of the right to a fair trial that the Deputy Governor enjoys under Article 50 of the Constitution.

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Directions are hereby given to the Office of the Clerk to immediately issue summons and facilitate the appearance of Mr. Oyagi in the Senate tomorrow, Thursday, 14th March, 2024 at 2.00 p.m. The necessary adjustment to the proceedings shall be made to facilitate this.

documents submitted by the Deputy Governor and the request that they be expunged from the record on the grounds they are irrelevant to the current proceedings as they are in answer to allegations or charges that were not made by the county assembly, the same be disallowed as no prejudice to the County Assembly has been shown.

The Senate is competent enough and will make a determination on the relevance of any evidence adduced before it.

Governor that certain paragraphs in the bundle of the documents with the County Assembly be expunged on the ground they introduce new evidence is disallowed on the basis that the objection of necessity requires evidence to be adduced and its support or rebutted. This can best be achieved in the course of the hearing. I therefore rule that this objection be subsumed and taken up by the defence in the course of the presentation of the case of the Deputy Governor.

On the objection of counsel of the Deputy Governor, that the proceedings at the County Assembly were conducted outside of the timelines provided for in the County Governments Act and the Standing Order of Kisii County Assembly, we are therefore fatally incompetent-

I also rule that this is a matter of fact requiring the adducing of evidence. It will best be determined by hearing both parties and entertaining evidence that they have in respect thereof. This preliminary objection is accordingly disallowed at this stage.

Finally, there is the matter of the appearance for the Deputy Governor by Hon. Silvanus Osoro, MP, serving in the National Assembly and who is also the Majority Whip in the National Assembly. It is recognized and provided for in Standing Order No.80(3) of the Senate Standing Orders that the Governor has a right to appear and be represented before the Senate or a Special Committee. This right is recognized under Article 50 of the Constitution. It is not in dispute that Hon. Osoro is an MP and a State officer in terms of Article 260 of the Constitution of Kenya 2010

Pursuant to Article 75(1) of the Constitution- “A State officer is required to behave, whether in public or official life, in private life, or association with other persons in a manner that avoids-

justice must not only be done, but should also be seen to be done.

The attention was drawn to the Senate and it can properly take judicial notice of the fact that Hon. Osoro is an MP representing a constituency in Kisii County. He is a

Services, Senate. leader both in the county and the national level, holding a senior leadership position in the Parliament of Kenya.

Article 93 of the Constitution states that Parliament consists of the National Assembly and the Senate. Although the National Assembly and the Senate are required to perform their respective functions in accordance with the Constitution, it is the role of Parliament to protect the Constitution and promote democratic governance of the Republic.

Roles of legislation, representation and oversight belong to Parliament. It would not be correct to say, as we were urged to find, that the mandates of the Senate and the National Assembly are so distinct that the affairs of county governments and county officials will fall entirely outside the jurisdiction and oversight of the National Assembly so as to remove a Member of the National Assembly from any possible connection with oversight of county officials.

For this reason, therefore, I find and rule that it does not promote the purposes, values and principles of the Constitution nor contribute to good governance for the Legislature to put itself in the place where one part of the Legislature serves as a judge in matters relating to integrity in public affairs and Members of the other party of same Legislature act as an advocate for the State official parties to the matter.

In the present matter, I also know that the Deputy Governor is represented by other counsel, among them learned counsel Mr. Katwa Kigen, and will not be deprived of his right to legal representation. I, therefore, direct that Hon. Silvanus Osoro, MP, ceases forthwith to serve as part of the legal team for the Deputy Governor.

(Applause) With these directions, we shall now proceed with the impeachment proceedings. Clerk, call the next Order. Hon. Osoro, you may take part in these proceedings but as a guest of the Senate. In that case, I invite you to the Speaker’s Gallery.

(Applause) Clerk, let us go to the next Order.

Hon. Senators, we will now hear evidence from the County Assembly. You have four hours for evidence-in-chief, cross-examination and re- examination.

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The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Njiru): Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for that magnanimous ruling. We therefore wish to call our first witness, who happens to be the complainant in this case, one Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati. I will ask my learned friend, Mr. Mutuma, to lead the witness.

Where is your witness, County Assembly? The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. Speaker, Sir, we have our witness, Mr. Dennis Mokaya.

Where is he? Has he disappeared? Have you confirmed his presence?

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: He is within the precincts of Parliament.

Counsel, just to remind you that your time is running. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Indeed, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

So, as you delay in calling your first witness, just get to know your time is running.

was ushered into the Chamber) The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. Speaker, Sir, we are now ready with our witness.

You may proceed to swear in the witness.

introduced himself and took the Oath) The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Good afternoon, Mr. Mokaya?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya: Good afternoon to you. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Kindly state your full name for the record.

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: My name is Dennis Mokaya Misati. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Which county do you come from?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: I come from Nyamira County. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Thank you. Are you the complainant in this Senate, touching on matters of impeachment of the Deputy Governor of Kisii County?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes, I am. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Do you recall if you swore an affidavit in support of your allegation? Confirm whether it is the one

Services, Senate. appearing at Page 248 of the County Assembly’s bundle of documents? Can you confirm that?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya: Yes, I did. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Njiru): That is your affidavit?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Njiru): Do you want to abide by all the contents appearing in that affidavit and submit them as evidence before this House?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Njiru): Thank you. Now, very briefly, Mr. Mokaya, you have made certain allegations against the Deputy Governor that led to his impeachment.

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Sorry? The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Njiru): I am putting it to you that you made certain allegations against the Deputy Governor of Kisii that led to his impeachment. Is that correct?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes, I did. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Njiru): I want to refer you to a letter that appears at Page one of the bundle of documents of the County Assembly of Kisii. Can you confirm whether that---

Clerk, could the microphones be a bit louder so that we can hear both the counsel and the witness?

Proceed, counsel. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Kindly, confirm that there is a letter appearing at Page 1---

Counsel, as you lead your witness through evidence- in-chief, if you refer to any document, be specific on the volume and the page so that Senators can follow.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I am referring to Volume 1 of the County Assembly’s document at page 1.

Mr. Dennis Mokaya, is that your statement? Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes, it is. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Does it bear your signature at the end on page 5?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Do you wish to abide by the contents of that statement?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes, I do. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Now, very briefly, your allegation touches on the issue of bribery directed to the Deputy Governor of Kisii, whereby you allege that you issued some money to him with a promise to get a job position. Is that your evidence before this Senate?

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Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Njiru): Mr. Mokaya tell us what position were you interested in at the County Government of Kisii.

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: I applied for the position of commercial manager. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Njiru): Commercial manager?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Njiru): Did you have the qualifications for that position?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes, I did. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Njiru): What is your professional background?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: I am a graduate with a Bachelor of Commerce, majoring in accounting.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Njiru): You are an accountant by profession?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Njiru): How did you come to know about that position that was advertised?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: The position was brought to my attention by my father who told me there was an advertisement and asked me to go ahead and submit an application.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Njiru): What is the name of your father?

Joseph Dowell Misati. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Njiru): Mr. Joseph Misati?

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Njiru): You are aware that your father is a witness appearing for the Deputy Governor, correct?

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): When was that?

It was around mid April. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): Did you apply for that vacancy?

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Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes. I went to their website, did the application, attached all the documents and awaited for any communication.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): Are you able to point to hon. Senators the advertisement that was done by Gusii Water and Sanitation Company (GWASCO)? At what page? Can you look at Page No.266 and confirm whether that is the advertisement you are talking about?

Hon. Senators, again, I am referring to Volume one of the County Assembly’s bundle of documents at Page No.266. Can you confirm that that was the advertisement?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes, on Page No.266. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): When your father approached you and advised you to apply for that vacancy, did he tell you that he had made any arrangements or what was his advice to you in respect to that position?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: He told me to make an application for the job then he will follow it up with the Deputy Governor.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): When you say follow up, what do you mean? What kind of follow up did he talk to you about? Was that conversation candid? If it was, kindly, tell the House specifically what your father told you the nature of the follow up would be.

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: By the time I was doing the application, I was still in Nairobi City County doing my business. When I was called for an interview, when I went home, it is when I got to know the whole deal, that the Deputy Governor will help us secure the vacancy.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): Okay. How was the Deputy Governor supposed to help in securing the job vacancy?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: I was informed that the Deputy Governor was in good terms with the management and the Chief Executive Officer (CEO) of GWASCO, so it will be easier for any assistance.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): You have intimated that you were at the time working at your business in Nairobi City County. Kindly tell us what kind of business you were doing in Nairobi City County.

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Personally, I was working with a company called “Together as One”, as a marketer. I had a joint business with my wife, which was a salon/kinyozi. We were also refilling gas cylinders.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): Where was that business situated in Nairobi City County?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Our business was located in Ruai town, which was opposite Naivas Supermarket.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): Who was running that business?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: My wife. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): What is the name of your wife?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Everlyne Nyaboke.

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The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): Subsequently to that, you did apply for the position?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes, I did. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): Do you remember what date you applied for the position?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: It was around mid April. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): Were you shortlisted as an applicant?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes, I was shortlisted and invited for an interview. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): You were invited for an interview?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): Confirm that what appears at Page No.35 of the Deputy Governor's response is a schedule of appearances of shortlisted candidates.

Hon. Senators, the document is labelled as DG, at Page No.35.

Yes, these were the shortlisted candidates. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): Confirm that that is the schedule of appearances for interviewees.

May. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): 25th of May?

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): Now, prior to the shortlisting and subsequent interview, did you make any other arrangements to secure the job opportunity?

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The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): Keumbu is in Kisii County?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): Were you part of that meeting between your dad and the Deputy Governor?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes, I was. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): Were you privy to the conversation between the Deputy Governor and your father?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: No, we sat at a distance while the Deputy Governor and my dad had a talk.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): What did you understand was the outcome of the discussion between the Deputy Governor and your father?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: It was an agreement that we pay the sum of Kshs800,000 for him to enable secure the vacancy.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): What was the Kshs800,000 supposed to do? Who were the beneficiaries of the Kshs800,000 as per the conversation between your father and the Deputy Governor?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Initially, as I had said, he said he was in touch with the CEO of GWASCO, so he was the one who will enable us get the vacancy.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma):

Are you referring to the CEO or the MD of the company?

Services, Senate. lifetime savings for that period. She was not of the idea that we sell the salon, but since this was an opportunity for us to shape our life, I had to plead with her so that she agrees we use the money for the occasion.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): Subsequently, she agreed for you to sell the salon?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): When you sold the salon, do you remember what date that was?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes, we wrote the agreement on date 25th. He paid us in two instalments. The first instalment was Kshs200,000.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): Kindly, look at the agreement and confirm the actual dates. Was it 25th or 20th? Confirm from the agreement.

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: It is 25th. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): Confirm from the agreement. There is a date written beneath.

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: The agreement was done on the 20th, but the first payment was made on 25th.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): So, the agreement was done on 20th?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): The first instalment was to be paid on 25th of April?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): Was that before or after the shortlisting?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: After the shortlisting. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): What did you do with the money immediately you got it from the buyer of the salon?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: He gave us the money in cash. We carried it money home and gave it to our parents to keep it safe for us.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): Mr. Dennis Mokaya, are you an accountant?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): Are you saying that you gave your parents money to keep for you?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): That does not sound very credible. Why would you feel the need to give your parents money to keep for you?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: We were doing a clearance at that time. We were selling all our items from Nairobi to relocate to our rural home. We even went to an extent of borrowing from these mobile banking and from our banks.

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Since my wife was the one operating the business, we were doing most of the transactions through her phone number. So, we even went to an extent of borrowing money from Kenya Commercial Bank (KCB) and Mshwari so that we could raise the full amount.

So, we felt that it is better it be kept by our parents because if we kept it, we could have used the money again. It would not have served the right purpose.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): So, you gave it to your parents because you felt you would have utilised the amount?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): Thank you. What do your parents do for a living? When you talk about your parents, kindly talk about your father and your mother.

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: My father is a retired civil servant. He was working in the veterinary. However, he has some business at home and operates an M- pesa shop with a small retail shop.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): He is operating an M-pesa shop?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): Was the money subsequently given to the Deputy Governor?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes, when the Deputy Governor requested for the Kshs800,000, on the 28th,, we gave him Kshs500,000---

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): 28th of which month?

28th May. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): 28th of May?

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): Was that the year 2023?

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The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): Kindly read it out.

My M-pesa number is 0725487300. After receiving a transaction of Kshs250,000 from my mother, Annah Misati---

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): At what time?

I received the first transaction at 7.44 p.m. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): From whom?

From my mother, which was Kshs150,000. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): What is the name of your mother?

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The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): Are you able to point us to that transaction where your father sent money to the Deputy Governor on the same day?

We are getting there, hon. Senators. On page 65, Volume II of the Deputy Governor's (DG's) response, kindly show us the transaction where your father sent money to the Deputy Governor, appearing at page 65.

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: It is on page 65 on the same date of 28th, my dad made four transactions. The first one was from a Cooperative Bank Account. This is a joint account between my dad and mum. The first transaction was Kshs70,000. The second one was Kshs70,000, and again, he did a transaction of Kshs70,000. Later, he did another transaction of Kshs41,000. So, it is totaling to Kshs251,000.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): What was the nature of this transaction? It reflects that it is from a bank. How was that payment done from the bank?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati:It was done from the bank to the M-pesa account of the Deputy Governor. However, this is a different number from the one I used.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): What number is that?

This number is 0702000220. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): Please repeat.

It is 0702000220. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): Who is the registered owner of that number?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati:No.

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Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: It is called Kebobora Women’s Group. It is in our locality and he is the Treasurer. On many occasions, the Deputy Governor borrows money from the SACCO through my dad's name, then he refunds with an interest. That is, generally, the business they have been doing.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): On this day, could it be one of such instances where the Deputy Governor had borrowed money and was being refunded by your father?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: No, it is not one of those days. As I stated earlier, if actually, this was the borrowing and lending business, I am not an official of the SACCO. Therefore, I would not be entitled to make any transaction to the Deputy Governor through my mobile phone.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): Did you have any other reason to visit the Deputy Governor's home on 28th of May, apart from the business of giving him money for securing the job vacancy? Did you have any other business?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: No. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): Have you ever been to the Deputy Governor's home at any other time?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: No. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): What then does your presence mean against the defense of the Deputy Governor that it was a repayment of the loan?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: I was the owner of this whole initiative. I was the one who was looking for employment. So, I was to be there to witness what was going on because this was my money.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): Are you aware if the Deputy Governor ever transmitted any money to the target of the bribe?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): Who was that target?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: The Director of Gusii Water and Sanitation Company limited (GWASCO)---

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): What is the name of the Managing Director of GWASCO?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Her name is Lucy Wahito. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): Kindly look at the document before you. Hon. Senators, I am looking at page 99 of the Deputy Governor’s response.

Is there any money sent to that very person, Lucy Wahito, the Managing Director (MD) of Gusii Water and Sanitation Company Limited (GWASCO) on that very day?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Mr. Speaker, Sir, yes, there is a sum of Kshs100,000.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): What time was that money sent?

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Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: It was sent on 28th May, 2023, at 9.24 p.m. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): What time had you sent the money to the Deputy Governor?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: The first transaction was made at 8.33 p.m. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): Then an hour he sends money to the same Lucy, the MD of GWASCO?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): The very company where you had applied and you were shortlisted for a position?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): The Deputy Governor says that the money was sent erroneously, but interestingly, to the same person that he was meant to bribe. What do you say about that?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: I do not know what to say, but this was that transaction but I believe this was a bribe so that he could---

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): In your previous discussions with the Deputy Governor and your father, were you aware that Lucy Wahito was the person meant to be bribed by the amount of money you were giving?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Mr. Speaker, Sir, I did not know the name, but I know it was going to be given to the Managing Director who happens to be Lucy Wahito.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): Thank you. Did you ever secure that employment at GWASCO?

No, I did not. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): You did not.

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): Did you follow up with the Deputy Governor or your father to make an inquiry over the same?

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Are you done with the witness because he is breaking down?

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. Speaker, Sir, we can pause for 30 seconds. He can recollect himself.

Serjeant-at-Arms, kindly, take care of the situation in the public gallery.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. Misati, can we proceed? Kindly tell the hon. Senators about your current relationship with your parents as a result of this?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Mr. Speaker, Sir, I do not have anything against my parents. The fact is that this was my family’s lifetime savings. We had built this business for the last 13 years. This was our opportunity to sell the business and get something that would benefit the family. However, we lost everything. After we lost everything, my parents at home became unsupportive, so we had to leave our home and find somewhere else to start all over again.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: How did that affect you and your wife?

Counsel, just hold on. What is your intervention, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale? Senators, just to remind you that you will have an opportunity to engage the witness. I hope that whatever you want to raise has got nothing to do with seeking clarification or asking questions.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, purely on humanitarian grounds, I request that you use Standing Order No.1 to allow the young witness, probably five or 10 minutes maximum to recompose himself. You can see that the witness is completely emotionally eroded.

From the Counsel, the witness is doing pretty well and that is why they proceeded, otherwise, that application can only come from the Counsel and not from you, hon. Senator.

Counsel, proceed. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I urge the witness to gather courage and proceed.

Mr. Misati, how has this ordeal affected your family life; you and your wife? Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Mr. Speaker, Sir, initially, my wife was not in agreement that we sell our family business to relocate to our home. I had to persuade her to agree with me so that we get better after we secure that job. We, therefore, agreed and relocated to our home.

After that, we were disappointed because I did not secure the opportunity. Recruitment was done and people reported for duty. It was very stressful and my wife did not take it easy and she branded me a liar because we lost the family business. At that

Services, Senate. time, my wife was expecting, after 12 years of trying. My first born is 13 years old. We had tried for all that period. During that hard time, my wife miscarried---

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): Who is that?

Ms. Lucy Wahito.

Services, Senate.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): Lucy was summoned by EACC pursuant to your complaint?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): Thank you very much.

Mr. Speaker, Sir. I would like to stop at that and yield the witness to my learned friend for cross-examination.

Counsel for the Deputy Governor. It is your turn now. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Good afternoon, Mr. Misati.

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Good afternoon. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: I would like to start with a few preliminary issues. From the cross-examination, you have said that you have seen the response by your father and mother.

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You see that their position is that they were refunding money they borrowed from the Deputy Governor?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: What did you say is your reaction to the point made by your parents that the money was a refund of a loan that had been given to them?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: It is a lie. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You are telling the Senate that it is a lie?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Now, in your affidavit, you admit readily that your father and the Deputy Governor have been friends for many years?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Is that a fact? Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: It is a fact. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Do you know whether they were borrowing each other money over the years?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes, they have been borrowing money. I can say that the Deputy Governor has been borrowing money---

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Listen to my question.

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You admit that indeed, over the years, they have been borrowing each other money?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes.

Services, Senate.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Okay. Now, it is also true your father and the Deputy Governor have an Agrovet business in Kisii. Is that not it?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: No. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Both of them do it separately.

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: No. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): It is not a joint business. Each of them is running their own business. Is that not it?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: There is no business at this date. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Okay. Did they use to run?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Okay, sorry about that. It is also true that they use to borrow each other stocks.

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Okay. So, your position is that in respect to this specific point that Mr. and Mrs. Misati borrowed money in November/October 2022 is a lie. Having admitted that they borrow each other money, what makes you distinguish this refund of money borrowed in November/October 2022? What distinguishes this exchange?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: My reason is that I was--- as he said they are giving a refund. I was not involved in their transactions. I came from Nairobi to Kisii for the first time after a long period of time. So here comes---

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): You admit that you do not know what the transactions were?

The one I sent to the Deputy Governor? The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Yes.

I know. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Let us go back to my question. Having admitted that they borrowed each other stock and money, what is it that distinguishes the case of these Kshs500,000 that Mr. and Mrs Misati are saying they borrowed from Dr. Monda in November and were refunding in May, 2023?

Services, Senate.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Your position is that they did not borrow each other in November?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: I do not know but at that time--- The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): You do not know. Let us leave it there. I wanted you to confirm whether you can say for a fact that they did not borrow each other or you do not know.

You also say that--- In your affidavit, I have seen quite a number of paragraphs where the communication was between your father on your behalf and the Deputy Governor. Is that not it?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Do you have your affidavit there?

Hon. Members, I am referring to page 17 of the Deputy Governor’s bundle. Do you have it?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Could you confirm that paragraph five is information you received and it got to you through your father and it was not a direct conversation with the Deputy Governor?

You say in paragraph five that “In early 2023, my father had learned through Deputy Governor of job vacancies with GWASCO”. Is that what you have said?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): That information came to you through your father. Is that it?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Not a personal conversation with the Deputy Governor.

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: It was through my father. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Please let us go to paragraph six. You said that “on 21st April, while I was working with a company known as Together As One Finance as a Marketeer, my father brought to my attention”, That information came to you through your father. You did not talk with the Deputy Governor.

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: It came through my father. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Okay. Let us look at paragraph nine. You said in paragraph nine that, “the Deputy Governor called us to his home within days of being informed by my father about the post and before the interviews were carried out.” Can you see that?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): That also came through your father, not directly between you and the Governor.

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: All the communication was done through my father.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Okay. I would like you to look at paragraph 11(d) on the next page. Are you at (d)?

Services, Senate.

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): You said Kshs250,000 was sent to Dr. Monda through my father’s Safaricom line. That is also information in the hands of your father, not you personally. Is that not it?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: This was information from my father. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Thank you very much. Lastly, in paragraph 17, you said that you informed your father of the intention to report the matter to EACC and your father told Dr. Monda and that Dr. Monda got upset.

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Having gone through that, could you confirm that in terms of the whole of these transactions, you have not had a direct conversation between yourself and Dr. Monda and that you tell your father to communicate with Dr. Monda?

All the communications were done through my dad. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Your father?

Yes. I have never had any direct communication. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Okay. Could we also confirm that apart from not having a personal conversation with Dr. Monda, you did not have any telephone conversation with him?

In his office? The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): In his house.

We went to his house on the 28th --- The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): I understand that. You have said that was the only time you went there?

Services, Senate.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Were you separate from them?

Yes. I was with my other brothers. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): How many of them?

We were with my other three brothers. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): So, you were four brothers. Did you participate in the conversation between hon. (Dr.) Robert Monda and your father? For instance, it was on a Saturday or did you make any contribution? Did you participate in that conversation at all in one way or the other?

Services, Senate.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): You are saying that I you gave out a bribe. Are you not saying that here?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: I can say that--- The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): On paragraph 10, you are saying you gave out money with the intention of getting a job. Is that what you are saying? A bribe with an intention of getting a job?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: I only succumbed to pressure from his office. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Okay, your state of mind aside, all I am saying is that you are admitting before this Senate that as you stand, testify and complain, you are criminal. Is that not true?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: I am not. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Have you not said that you are a criminal and that you gave out a bribe or do you think giving a bribe is not a crime?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: At first, they called it a facilitation fee, others call it ‘tea’. I do not know. Now you are calling it a bribe.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Who complained to Hon. Siocha that he bribed and did not get a job?

I told

So, I want to move on from this point. Are you now then telling this Senate, it was not a bribe but a facilitation fee? Are you re-baptizing the name of this Kshs799,000?

Services, Senate.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Say that again. You swore to say the truth? Is that not it?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Are you swearing that by nature, you are not a gambler? You do not bet?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Actually, betting is a --- The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): So, you gamble? You gambled on the job and you are a generally a gambler. Is that not it?

Hon. Members, I would like to go to pages 21 and 22 of the Deputy Governor’s bundle. Do you have your M-Pesa record there?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): I would like you to look at the first page. Your M-Pesa was obtained on the 29th of January, 2024. Can you see that?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): I would like you to look at the entry of the 28th May, 2023. It should be the fourth last entry from the bottom. Are you there? Do you want me to help you?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes, it is there. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): It is true that in that entry you had about Kshs400 and you spent about Kshs100 in gambling. Is that true?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Okay. Let us go to page two. I would like you to look at the entry of your transaction on 28th May. The same day we are talking about at noon. Are you there?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): At that time, you had Kshs300 and you spent Kshs200 in gambling. Is that not it?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Then at 10:21 on the same 28th May; the same day we are talking about money being sent to Hon. (Dr.) Robert Monda, you did not have any money. You had only Kshs34. However, somehow you spent Kshs100 on gambling.

Is that not it?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Then the day before at 18:51 hours, you spent another Kshs100 and left a balance of Kshs34 in your account. I do not want to go through all this because of time. You, however, agree that generally, your statement shows you engage in gambling.

Services, Senate.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Okay. Thank you. I want to move on to the big question here. Whose money was it? Your position is it is your money but you do not know whether Mr. and Mrs. Joseph Misati owed the Deputy Governor money.

I would like us to discuss on the face of what you came with to the Assembly and subsequently to this Senate.

It is true from what my colleague Mr. Mutuma took you through that you confirm that money came from your mother’s, Mrs. Ann Misati, M-Pesa account to your account. Is that not it?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: True. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): So, let us start. You received money from---

Hon. Senators, that M-pesa statement is on pages 75 to 88 but with particular reference to the entries on page 87. Which bundle are you using?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Sorry? The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Let me see the bundle you are using. Thank you very much. Are you on page 87?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Could you confirm that the entry of 28th May at 20:01, you received Kshs50,000 from Mrs. Misati who is your mum?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): At 19:51, you received another Kshs50,000 from her?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes, I did. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Lastly, at 19:44, you received Kshs159,000 from her?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Okay. These are exactly the amounts that you remitted to Dr. Monda, less Kshs1,000?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Why did you keep Kshs1,000?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: That was for transaction costs. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Okay. So, you kept Kshs1,000 for transaction costs?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): So, your mum sent you Kshs250,000. You remitted to Dr. Monda only Kshs249,000 and kept Kshs1,000, is that not so?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Actually, it was not Kshs1,000. After the transaction cost, I do not know how much remained in the account.

Services, Senate.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Do you know how much it was?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: It was less by Kshs1,000, but I do not know how much remained in the account.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): The question I have for you is this, did you call your mum to request her to withhold Kshs1,000?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Sorry? The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): You withheld Kshs1,000 from her, is that not the case?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Did you request her to withhold that Kshs1,000? Did she authorize you to keep that Kshs1,000?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: No. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Did your father authorize you to keep that Kshs1,000?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: My dad told me to send Kshs249,000. It was my father because we were with him.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Okay. It is because you needed to cushion yourself against the expenses of that transaction, is that not the case?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: That was the--- The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): He did not want you to incur an expense. You are saying he told you to keep Kshs1,000, and send Kshs249,000. Was that so?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: This was--- The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): No, we must go through this. He did not want you to spend your money. So, he told you to send Kshs249,000 and keep Kshs1,000, being the charges that you would incur for passing on this money, is it not so?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: That is not true. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): What is the true position?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Actually, my dad did the first transactions to the Deputy Governor. He had transacted a total Kshs100,000---

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Let us not go back so that we do not spend too much time. Why were you keeping Kshs1,000? Let me just put it like that.

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Because my dad had sent him Kshs251,000 with an extra Kshs1,000. So, I sent Kshs249,000 to make it a total of Kshs500,000.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): If that money was yours, why would your father be concerned about whether or not you would spend money to remit the amount? Why would he bother? Is it not because it was his money and he did not want you to go at a loss?

Services, Senate.

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: It was because he wanted to make the full payment of Kshs500,000.

Mr. Katwa Kigen: The reason is that your father did not want you to spend money on his business. Is that not the case?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: That is not true. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Okay. I will move from there. So, your position is that the money that your mum sent was your money. Is that your position?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Without spending so much time on that point, could you confirm that you have not given us any paper trail to show that the money was from you to your mum's M-pesa account?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: I gave the full amount of Kshs800,000--- The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): No, just answer my question. My question is, we have traced how money came from your mum to your account and then to Dr. Monda. Is it not so?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): You have shown us the EACC documents and so on and so forth. In the same way that you are so diligent, you have not given us, with the same diligence, documents showing that on a given date, you remitted a sum of Kshs250,000 to your mum, which is a basis for you to say that money was yours and your mum was just a custodian.

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: There were no documents. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Thank you. In your statement, I want you to go to page 19, paragraph 11(d). Are you there?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): You have said that Kshs250,000 was remitted using your father’s Safaricom line. Is it not so?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Okay. Now, let us start from there. This is mistaken and not accurate. Is this correct?

This is not correct. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): This is wrong?

Yes.

When did you realize it is wrong?

The transaction that my dad did--- The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): No. You went to see Hon. Siocha and told him---

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Okay.

When we were doing these transactions---

Services, Senate.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): I do not want to go a long way. You are not answering my question. My question is simply this; do you admit that in Paragraph 11(d), it is not true that your father remitted Kshs250,000 using his Safaricom line? Do you admit that?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): My question is simply this; when did you realise that was inaccurate?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: When I saw my father's statement. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): So, you saw it for the first time when your father explained that he did not send money to Dr. Monda through M-pesa. Is it not so?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: The initial case was--- The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Just limit yourself to my questions. When your father responded, you realised that Kshs250,000 was paid to Dr. Monda, is it not so?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): How?

The first transaction was done secretly between my dad and the Deputy Governor. Then he came back to me saying---

Services, Senate.

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes. It was Kshs251,000. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): I would like to put it to you that the reason you do not know that the money was from Co-operative Bank and that the money was Kshs251,000, is because Dr. Monda and your father were talking at a distance as you already told the Senate, is it not the case?

That is not true. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): What is not true?

We live in a world of technology. So, if I make a transaction between me and you, it is personal. I cannot take---

Services, Senate.

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Actually, when the Deputy Governor called us, we knew what we were going to do at his home.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): I will ask you again. Did you hear what they were discussing?

Mr. Dennis Misati: I did not hear what they were discussing but my dad was--- The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): So, you did not know whether this money was for a job?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: I knew. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): How did you know, when you could not hear? They had discussed earlier.

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: My father had updated us before leaving home to Dr. Monda’s place.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): That is okay with me. So, it is your father who told you that they were going to pay Dr. Monda to help you get a job. Is that your point?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Dr. Monda had called him and instructed him to visit his place---

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Yes. The real bottom line, Dennis, if you do not mind, is that there is no point at which where you and Dr. Monda discussed whether or not he could get you a job. All you know is what your father told you.

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes. All the communication was through my dad. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Let us now look at Paragraph five of your affidavit. You state that “in early April, 2023, my father had learnt through the Deputy Governor of a job at the Gusii Water and Sanitation Company (GWASCO). Have you seen that?

Hon. Members, page 17, Paragraph five.

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): In early April, 2024, my father had learnt through the Deputy Governor of job vacancies. Your position is that it was the Deputy Governor who told your father that? Is that what you are saying?

Services, Senate. Deputy Governor. The Senate is to check who initiated this discussion about the job. Is it as in Paragraph five, where the Deputy Governor initiated it or was it your father as is in Paragraph 9?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is the Deputy Governor who called my dad.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Paragraph nine is inaccurate?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): I would like us to look at Paragraph six. According to you, the Deputy Governor called your father and told him there is a job and then your father told you to scout-you used that word- and so forth. Is it not?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): At Paragraph six, you state that “on Friday, 21st April, 2023 while I was working with a company known as Together as One as a marketer, my father brought to my attention the advertisement for job vacancies by GWASCO on its website. I downloaded the advert and applied for the post of commercial manager.’’ Do you stand by that statement as it is?

Yes.

If you stand by it, could you tell this Senate when you knew for the first time that there was a job on offer at GWASCO; one of Kisii county’s subsidiaries? From the face of the statement.

Services, Senate.

Mr. Katwa Kigen: Ms. Lucy Wahito says and yourself has said in other places that it was the 15th May, 2023.

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: You can see from the --- The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Yes, we can see from the letter of invite at page---I will get the date in a minute and then probably. If you could go to page 40---

You were shortlisted. Is that right? Pardon me. I am just trying to locate your name.

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: You can check it on page 39. That is the page that has the shortlisted applicants.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): When was the interview?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: 26th May, 2023. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): That is when the interview was?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): You said page 39?

Page 39. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): This is a shortlist of the Human Resource Manager (HRM). Were you applying for that position?

Services, Senate.

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Okay, before the date the interview was conducted, you had not discussed raising money to pay Dr. Monda?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: My father had told me that it would be required but at that time, the Deputy Governor had not communicated.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Okay. When did he inform you? It is okay if you cannot remember. Just give us a timeline.

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: It was towards the end of April. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): You made your application on 21st April, is it not? And you are saying towards the end of April – so, we are looking around 25th to 23rd is when your father told you that it is likely that some amount will be required to get the job?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: This is April. We are talking about May when we gave the amount.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): When did the subject of being bribed come up?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: After my interview. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): You are telling this Senate that the interview was on 25th May, 2023? Before that, the issue of bribe had not been discussed?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: It was not discussed, but we had an idea after my interview that something would be required.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Kindly tell this Senate again. You are saying that before your interview on the 25th, May, Dr. Monda had not asked for anything but you in your place suspected he might?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: I cannot confirm the communication that took place between my father and the Deputy Governor.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): So, the first time you had communication from Dr. Monda was post-interview on 25th May. This is the first time Dr. Monda spoke and said, ‘Please, bring me Kshs800,000” according to you from your father?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: I cannot tell because they usually talk. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): If you do not remember, it is okay. But your position is that the earliest Dr. Monda asked about any money was after the interview.

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Before that, he had not asked for any money.

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Msati: Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Okay. You said something I did not know. Before he asked you for the money after the interview on the 25th May, you suspected he might need some money.

Services, Senate.

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: No, I told you all the communication was done --- The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Just answer the question. You had said that earlier. Are you retracting? Did you suspect that you will need some money?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: To get some money? What do you mean? To give some money or get some money?

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): To give him some money for the job.

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): From where you are seated you knew he might need it?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): But he had not told you.

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Okay. We are looking at the date of the application as the 25th, we are looking at an application made on the 21st of April and an interview done on the 25th of May. I would like us to go to the Deputy Governor’s bundle on page 256. Hon. Members, I am looking at Volume 1 of the County Assembly bundle page 256. Are you there, my friend? I am looking at your bundle.

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: That is volume? The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Page 256 on this bundle. The sale agreement. Are you there?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, am I allowed to go next to him so that we move on as they look for the page?

Please, if he can assist. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Mr. Dennis, I would like you to see the bottom of that agreement. In evidence in chief, you admit that you made that agreement on the 20th of April, 2023.

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Okay. Keeping in mind the timelines you have said – you applied on the 21st of April, you went for the interview on the 25th of May, then the request for a bribe was raised by Dr. Monda according to you. By the 25th of April 2023 when you were selling your salon for Kshs500,000, Dr. Monda had not told you anything about a bribe. You were only suspecting that he would ask for a bribe.

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: I did not know any communication. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Sorry. Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: I did not know of any communication between Mr. Monda and my dad at that time. At this time, I was not at home, I was in Nairobi.

Services, Senate.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Yes, I know you were in Nairobi. At that time, when you were selling it, you had no communication about any bribe being required.

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: My dad told me we shift from Nairobi to Kisii. It was necessary to make the job arrangements. I had to.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): So, if your interview was on the 25th of May, the issue of the need to use the money you had came a month later on the 25th of May. This is the 20th of April and Dr. Monda is asking for money – I am not saying he did, this is according to your case. He asked for it a month later on the 25th of May.

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): All this time you are holding the money?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: I was not holding the money. I gave the whole amount to my father. I told you they operate a business, I gave them the whole amount to keep it safe.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): So, I have the greatest possible respect for you, Mr. Dennis. When you cry and say you sold your salon, you are doing so from your mind that a bribe might be required. Dr. Monda did not tell you he needed the money. When you were selling it, it was not because he had told you to sell your salon.

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: As I stated earlier, I did not know any communication between my father and ---

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Why are you crying? It is not Dr. Monda who told you to sell your salon or caused you to sell your salon. He had not told you to give him any bribe.

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Where is my business? Where did it go to? The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): When you sold it on the 20th Dr. Monda had not spoken to you. Had he? I have made my point to the Senate I would like to move on to a different issue. I want to finish because I know your colleagues need time. You said Dr. Monda threatened you.

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): This is the other account against Dr. Monda. We have agreed that you never spoke with Dr. Monda at any point on the phone.

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Every communication was done through my father. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Even the threat came through your father?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: It came through Hon. Siocha whom I had reported the issue to, and he told me to write a formal statement.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): I do not know if we are mixing the issues. We are talking about being threatened. We agree that there was no

Services, Senate. communication between you and Dr. Monda. Any time you needed to communicate to Dr. Monda, you would do it through your father?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): At a certain point, you labour under the feeling that you had been threatened and the feeling was communicated to you by your father or by whom?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misaati: When I told my dad I wanted to make a formal complaint, he was not of the idea.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Please answer the question directly. Is it your father who told you that Dr. Monda is upset and has threatened your life?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: I got the information from my father. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): The Senate can then rest and say, knowing that the point that you were threatened was communicated to you by your father that it came from Dr. Monda.

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): That is good enough. I want to move on from there. Looking at paragraph 17, I have two last issues I want to discuss. First, we proceed to paragraph 12. You have nothing to show that any Kshs300,000 was given to Dr. Monda other than word of mouth.

No. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): You do not have?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): You are a witness for the point that Kshs300,000 given to Dr. Monda. Is your father Mr. Joseph Misati?

What I did after the complaint to

We have documents that the Senate is looking at as you have seen we have gone through. The letter is not among the documents. There is no demand letter that you brought to the Senate.

I gave the copy to

It is Hon. Siocha who will explain it?

Services, Senate.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Okay, let us move on. You reported the matter to the Ethics and Anti-Corruption Commission (EACC).

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes, I did. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Hon. Members, I want to refer to the DG’s bundle page 16 where the letter of EACC is.

Could you confirm that this is the letter of complaint? Why do they keep taking the document away from you? We are on page 16 which is a letter dated 6th February, 2024, delivered to the EACC on 20th of February. This is not the letter you used to make your complaint.

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: This is a follow-up letter. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Have you brought to this Senate a copy of your letter of complaint, tabulating the issues you have complained against Dr. Monda?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: The complaints were recorded and there was no document given.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): So, you meant you have nothing to show for it?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes, it is only the recording that they did at the Ethic and Anti-Corruption Commission (EACC).

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Okay, and you have no reference number?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Actually, there was no reference number given. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Now, this Senate is investigative in these kinds of matters and might want to know whether that report was made. Could you tell this Senate, what day did you make this report to EACC?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: It was before this--- The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): You were prepared to make this case and you are saying you reported to EACC, could you tell us, was it on 14th February, 2023 or 16th or whichever date. Could you give us a specific day or you do not have a day?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: I cannot remember the specific date. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Which place did you report this to?

EACC. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Where?

At Integrity. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Integrity House?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): And your statement is at Integrity House?

Services, Senate.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Okay. So, if this Senate wants to summon somebody to confirm that, who did you report your statement to? Give us a name.

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: I do not know the name, but after I made the complaint ---

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Just answer the question directly, so that we move on. You do not have a name?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: I remember she was a lady, but I do not remember her name.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Pardon.

She is a lady. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): She is right handed or left handed or you do not know?

Services, Senate.

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: This is just a representation of the youth on the exploits we are going through under these politicians who ask favours in return of jobs. So, I am just a representative of the youth.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): So, you have come to represent the youth in making this complaint?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Atually say, yes. If there are other youths out there who have not---

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): So, you have come here on behalf of the youths?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Sorry. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): You have come here on behalf of other youths? Please, answer my question yes or no.

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: It is both. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Your tears this afternoon is also for the rest of the youth.

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: It was my life time savings. It is for the baby I lost through this process.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Now, let us look at Page 15 of the Deputy Governor’s bundle which is your letter of complaint.

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Which page? The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Page 15 of that same bundle. On page 15, you have said the only interest --- Are you on page 15?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: This one? The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Yes, that one. You said I have written to you because the Deputy Governor is acting with impunity. I believe as a Member of the County Assembly you are in a position to assist me by disciplining him through the County Assembly.

All you have come to do is to punish him. You are not even interested in your money and saloon. You are only interested in him being punished. Is it not?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Punishing him means it is a refund and to see-- The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Have you asked for any refund in any of your affidavit or statement?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: I actually wrote to him to get a refund complaining of the money he took from me.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): I will move on because I just want to use --- The last thing I want to explore before I hand over to my colleague is page 13. If you could go to page 13, kindly the second paragraph.

Page 13 of the Deputy Governor’s bundle hon. Members. Are you there at page 13? At paragraph two, you said the brief facts are that in April last year 2023, my father relayed some information he had received from the Deputy Governor about an advert on Gusii Water and Sanitation Company Limited (GWASCO). You can see that?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: It is on page?

Services, Senate.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): It is on page 13. Your letter of 19th December. I am inviting you to paragraph two. Are you at paragraph two on the brief facts? Are you there?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Okay. Could you confirm this is what you wrote? The brief facts are that in April last year 2023, my father relayed some information he had received from the Deputy Governor. You can see?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Now, this letter was written when?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: I wrote this letter to--- The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): You wrote this letter when?

December. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): 19th December?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): So, taking paragraph two for its full meaning; it means you wrote this letter last year, 2022?

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): This is a mistake?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): So, you are telling this assembly, this should have read brief facts of this year, 2023?

Services, Senate.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Okay. Now, since you said that, I want us to go to page 14. I would like us to look at paragraph C. Are you at paragraph C?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): At paragraph (C), you said Kshs50,000 on 28th May though my Mpesa and then after that statement you said, annexed hereto and marked DMM4 is true copy of my M-pesa statement printout reflecting the said transaction. Can you see that?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Is that correct?

Yes, I attached my Mpesa statement. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): You attached it to the letter of 19th December, 2023.

The one I sent to

The one we are relying on in this Senate. Is it not?

I gave this statement to

Let us look at the annexure then. I would like us to go to page 21 of that same bundle; the Deputy Governor’s bundle. Are you at page 21?

It is true this is --- The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): It was on 29th April?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): When you are saying you are attaching it and it is December, 2023 this Mpesa did not exist, did it?

I am not lying. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): You are not lying?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Where is that statement you had as at December, 2023?

Services, Senate.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): You are saying you gave hon. Siocha a Mpesa statement that existed as at 19th December, 2023 and it is not this one?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): This is not the annexure you put there? It is not the annexure you gave hon. Siocha?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: This is another one that I printed again. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): That other that you had you have not presented it anywhere, or have you? It is nowhere in the whole of your case. Is it?

I told you the first one I gave to

Then hon. Siocha frustrated your case by doing that. I put it to you again that the truth of it is that you wrote this letter in post 29th January, 2024.You carelessly said I am enclosing an M-pesa statement, which then belly up your case by showing that, indeed, you are deep into the year 2024.

Services, Senate.

Sen. Orwoba, what is your intervention on this?

Counsel, just hold on.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I wanted to intervene when the Senior Counsel was there. Since we are following the proceedings, I feel that they are not allowing the witness to answer. Can they allow the witness to answer because we are also following? We are not getting the---They are badgering the witness.

That is past. The Senior Counsel has already concluded with the witness.

Counsel, proceed and ask your questions. Sen. Orwoba: Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, before counsel addresses you, we were cautioned that we have four hours. For guidance purposes, do our four hours include the cross-examination session and time consumed?

Yes, Counsel for the County Assembly. Remember, the directions given was that you have been given four hours wholesome. That means it is inclusive of your examination-in-chief, cross examination and re-examination. You started at 3.30 p.m. and you have done almost two hours of your time.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: To that effect, will there be equality of arms, so that the defense does not eat into our time, because that could be their strategy as well. I am guided by your direction. We still have five more witnesses. Could we get direction as to how we will get equality of arms in that respect?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, before counsel addresses you, we were cautioned that we have four hours. For guidance purposes, do our four hours include the cross-examination session and time consumed?

Yes, Counsel for the County Assembly. Remember, the directions given was that you have been given four hours wholesome. That means it is inclusive of your examination-in-chief, cross examination and re-examination. You started at 3.30 p.m. and you have done almost two hours of your time.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: To that effect, will there be equality of arms, so that the defense does not eat into our time, because that could be their strategy as well. I am guided by your direction. We still have five more witnesses. Could we get direction as to how we will get equality of arms in that respect?

Proceed, mindful of the time that is provided for the County Assembly as well as the defense. We will deal with it as we progress.

Sen. Wafula, proceed.

Asante sana, Bw. Spika wa Muda. Ni lazima tupate mwelekeo. Sio vyema Maseneta waliopo hapa kuchukua nafasi kwamba ni mawakili ama wawakilishi wa washukiwa ama washtakiwa katika masuala haya. Waache kesi iendelee jinsi inavyopaswa kuendelea.

Sen. Wafula, resume your seat. Proceed, Sen. Sifuna.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I do not know if in the programme, there was specification of the amount of time to be taken in cross-examination, so that we have a fair idea of how much time is left for cross-examination. I am sure that even the counsel of the Deputy Governor would want to know how much time he is playing with.

Services, Senate.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, Members of the House, for the record, I am Kelvin Michuki, appearing for the Deputy Governor.

Good afternoon,

Good afternoon to you. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): I will start you off by, first, inquiring if you are a resident of Kisii County or Nyamira County?

Good afternoon,

Services, Senate.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): So, you cannot say whether that was a regular occurrence or not.

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): You have indicated that you were employed by a corporation known as Together as One. Have you provided any proof of this fact?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: No. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): Was the money that you utilised to invest in your salon sourced from your employment or gambling activities?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: It was from my salon business. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): I will go back to the issue of moving to Nyamira in April. This was before you learnt of this job at Gusii Water and Sewerage Company (GWASCO)?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: I relocated to Nyamira after learning about the position.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): When did you apply for this particular job?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: It was in early April. After I made the application, I did the interview, then I came back to Nairobi and moved back.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): There is your sales agreement of your saloon. You can refer to that.

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): It is in your bundle; not that bundle, the other bundle. When was this agreement made?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: At Ruai. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): What page is that, just for the House to be aware?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Page 256. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): The agreement is dated at the bottom?

Services, Senate.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): So, you cannot say whether that was a regular occurrence or not.

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): You have indicated that you were employed by a corporation known as Together as One. Have you provided any proof of this fact?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: No. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): Was the money that you utilised to invest in your salon sourced from your employment or gambling activities?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: It was from my salon business. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): I will go back to the issue of moving to Nyamira in April. This was before you learnt of this job at Gusii Water and Sewerage Company (GWASCO)?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: I relocated to Nyamira after learning about the position.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): When did you apply for this particular job?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: It was in early April. After I made the application, I did the interview, then I came back to Nairobi and moved back.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): There is your sales agreement of your saloon. You can refer to that.

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): It is in your bundle; not that bundle, the other bundle. When was this agreement made?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: At Ruai. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): What page is that, just for the House to be aware?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Page 256. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): The agreement is dated at the bottom?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): Which dates?

20th April. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): 20th April 2023?

Services, Senate.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): I will take you to your statements. Still on Volume one of the County Assembly’s bundle, page 248. I would like you to read for the House paragraph six.

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: On Friday 21st April, 2023, while I was working with a company known as Together as One Investment Limited microfinance as a marketer, my father brought to my attention the advertisement for job vacancies with GWASCO on its website. I downloaded the advertisement and applied for the post of commercial manager.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): So, when you father brought it to your attention on the 21st that there is a job at GWASCO, had you already agreed and sold your salon?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: There was an earlier communication that I should prepare.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): We go with what is on the record. According to the record, you had already sold your salon.

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: We had agreed, but had not sold the salon. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): An agreement to do what?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: To sell.

Services, Senate.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): I will take you to your statements. Still on Volume one of the County Assembly’s bundle, page 248. I would like you to read for the House paragraph six.

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: On Friday 21st April, 2023, while I was working with a company known as Together as One Investment Limited microfinance as a marketer, my father brought to my attention the advertisement for job vacancies with GWASCO on its website. I downloaded the advertisement and applied for the post of commercial manager.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): So, when you father brought it to your attention on the 21st that there is a job at GWASCO, had you already agreed and sold your salon?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: There was an earlier communication that I should prepare.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): We go with what is on the record. According to the record, you had already sold your salon.

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: We had agreed, but had not sold the salon. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): An agreement to do what?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: To sell.

Counsel, for purposes of housekeeping and timekeeping as well, the County Assembly had been allocated four hours. We have so far done 52 minutes in examination-in-chief and cross-examination has taken 60 minutes. We are yet to deal with three examinations.

Going forward, Counsel Michuki remember, if I heard right, the Senior Counsel Katwa indicated that you will take 10 minutes. I believe you will be done with your cross-examination hopefully in the next five minutes. This is so that we embark on a re- exam and rework the timelines going forward with the remainder of the witnesses. Hopefully, you will close on that part in the next five minutes.

Before I give you back the microphone, Sen. Omogeni, you may have the Floor.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, you have dealt with part of the issue that I wanted to draw to your attention to.

We have done a number of impeachments in Plenary and what normally happens from the Chair is that you give guidance to the amount of time that will be spent on cross- examinations. You know, this is a time-bound proceeding. We only have two days. If the defence is allowed to cross-examine for the entire of this evening, we will not have the benefit of taking evidence from the other witnesses.

For example, on what is happening, Counsel Katwa did very well. He took us through the agreement and made reference to the dates. The counsel is again taking us back to the same agreement and repeating the same questions. I plead that you give guidance for full compliance on the time the defence should take for cross-examination so that we make progress.

Services, Senate. purposes of proceeding, Counsel Michuki, you should be closing in the next five minutes. I will give directives to your next witness. This must have been your star witness that is why this much time has been taken.

Proceed to conclude. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, and the Senior Counsel, we are guided.

Mr. Misati, we shall move from that point and move to a quite emotive issue it seemed.

In your evidence, you raised an issue that is neither in your statements or in the Motion that was moved in the County Assembly. The issue about your wife who was expecting having a miscarriage. Can you confirm to the House that this was not in your complaint to Hon. Siochi?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: I had explained to him. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): Is it in that letter that we have?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: It was not in the letter. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): Is it in the Motion that was moved at the County Assembly?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: I am not aware, but I thought his was more of a personal family issue.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): You have raised it before this tribunal so we have to go through it.

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): Have you put before this honourable House any documents to support this fact?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: No, I have not because it took place in Kisii. I was not able to get the documents.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): Can you at least give us a timeline on when it happened?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: It was in August last year. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): You have indicated that you made a statement to the EACC.

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes, I did. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): I will take you to the follow-up that we have, the one you were referred to by Mr. Katwa, just for confirmation purposes. There is nothing else you have placed before this tribunal or sent to hon. Siochi with regard to the EACC?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: I made a complaint to the EACC when I came here in January.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): Nothing has been placed before this House except that follow-up letter.

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: It was the follow-up letter.

Services, Senate.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): You also testified that Lucy Wahito was called to record a statement at EACC according to your knowledge.

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes, I did. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): From what source did you get this information?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: I had made a complaint to EACC. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): Where did you get the information that Lucy had been called to EACC to record a statement?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Through the communication I got from EACC. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): Did you get a communication from the EACC?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes, there is a lady who called me after I had submitted my ---

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): What was the name of this lady? Is this another unknown person?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: I cannot remember the exact name but ---- The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): So, this is another nameless unknown person from EACC?

We move to the money that you paid. The transactions happened on the 28th May?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): Was this before or after you were shortlisted?

Mr. Dennis Misati: Yes.

That must be your conclusion. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I am remaining with just two questions.

Mr. Dennis Misati: Yes.

That must be your conclusion. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I am remaining with just two questions.

Services, Senate.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): I can see I have a few seconds left.

Services, Senate.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): I can see I have a few seconds left.

Services, Senate.

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes. I cannot tell the particulars of the issues. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): Okay. Thank you. Mr. Misati.

Services, Senate.

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes. I cannot tell the particulars of the issues. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): Okay. Thank you. Mr. Misati.

Mr. Ndegwa, we need to guide you in terms of time. How much time do you need for---

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for re-examination, we will take cumulatively a total of about six minutes.

Services, Senate.

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Njiru Ndegwa): You have been asked and taken through the Statement about the gambling. Right?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Njiru Ndegwa): Did the gambling come before you sold the salon or after?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: It was after I sold the salon. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Njiru Ndegwa): That is a confirmation that Dr. Monda rendered you destitute.

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes, it is true. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Njiru Ndegwa): I will take you, then I yield to Mr. Mutuma. Hon. Senators, I am referring to our bundle of documents. The big book, volume I, page 189.

As they open page 189, do you recall, a question was put to you as, between the Deputy Governor and your father who approached who?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Njiru Ndegwa): Are you at page 189?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes, I am there. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Njiru Ndegwa): Can you see where we have Mr. Katwa Kigen asking questions and where you have the Hon. Deputy Governor answering?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Njiru Ndegwa): I want you to read the paragraph that begins, “Mr. Speaker, just as a good friend, Mr. Joseph Misati and I, somewhere in April, I was made to know that there is an advert---

Please read that paragraph.

It reads, “Mr. Speaker, just as good friends--- The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Njiru Ndegwa): Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, that is the HANSARD for 29th February, 2023 that took place at the County Assembly of Kisii. What is the Deputy Governor saying in that Statement?

Please read that paragraph.

Services, Senate.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Njiru Ndegwa): Is he confirming that, Mr. Misati, your father, is the one who approached him for the purpose of that job?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Njiru Ndegwa): Who is the issue being referred to as ‘son’ in these circumstances?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: I am the son. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Njiru Ndegwa): You were put to task to explain why you cried and you said that you cried because of your money.

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Njiru Ndegwa): Is there any other reason that made you cry?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes. I lost my baby. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Njiru Ndegwa): While you are at that stand, did you hear the Speaker direct that the Serjeant-at-Arms does take charge of another cry that came from the Gallery?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: I am sorry for that, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kitwa Kigen): Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, in your directions for re-examination, the direction is that re-examination be targeted at issues that were canvassed in the evidence-in-chief. We did not make any reference of anybody in the Gallery or the Serjeant-at-Arms. That issue should not be introduced.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Njiru Ndegwa): Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir---

Services, Senate.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Njiru Ndegwa): Is he confirming that, Mr. Misati, your father, is the one who approached him for the purpose of that job?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Njiru Ndegwa): Who is the issue being referred to as ‘son’ in these circumstances?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: I am the son. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Njiru Ndegwa): You were put to task to explain why you cried and you said that you cried because of your money.

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Njiru Ndegwa): Is there any other reason that made you cry?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes. I lost my baby. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Njiru Ndegwa): While you are at that stand, did you hear the Speaker direct that the Serjeant-at-Arms does take charge of another cry that came from the Gallery?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: I am sorry for that, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kitwa Kigen): Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, in your directions for re-examination, the direction is that re-examination be targeted at issues that were canvassed in the evidence-in-chief. We did not make any reference of anybody in the Gallery or the Serjeant-at-Arms. That issue should not be introduced.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Njiru Ndegwa): Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir---

Very well, Mr. Ndegwa--- The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, with due respect to the Senior Counsel, if you may---

Services, Senate.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Njiru Ndegwa): When was the recruitment?

Services, Senate.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Njiru Ndegwa): When was the recruitment?

It was done later, around August-September? The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Njiru Ndegwa): Around July?

Services, Senate.

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): Thank you. That is all, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. We wish to dispense with this witness at this moment and call our next witness.

Services, Senate.

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): Thank you. That is all, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. We wish to dispense with this witness at this moment and call our next witness.

Witness, you may--- Yes,

Proceed, Sen. Onyonka.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, this is a question I want to ask the young gentleman. I realised that all the transactions you were making were done at night. Was there a reason? Why that was the case?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the Deputy Governor called us to his home between seven heading to eight. That was when we went to his home. We sat there until 9.00 p.m. and then left his home.

Before SC Katwa Kigen responds to that, if there are any clarifications that hon. Members would want to get from the respective counsels, we will limit to two minutes per person so that we keep time and go ahead.

Senior Counsel Katwa Kigen, you have the Floor? The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, on the two questions that have been put to me, we pray that the Senate draws its conclusion based on the data on the gambling. All we are asking is to treat the testimony of the complainant with circumspection. We would want you to take what he says with an amount of caution that he is not necessarily saying the truth. Also, from where he comes, he is inclined to get things freely and cheaply.

On the question of him having admitted a crime meaning that we are admitting the crime, we are not making any admission. We are merely saying that in the quest that he has put in his letter of complaint, he is determined to have the Deputy Governor punished to a point that he is prepared to incriminate himself and make an admission of having committed a crime. He is ready to shoot his foot, provided that he gets the Deputy Governor punished. That is the sense in which we are raising the point of his admission of the crime. We are also saying that you should treat him with circumspection.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I hope I have answered the questions. I thank you.

Proceed, Sen. Onyonka.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, this is a question I want to ask the young gentleman. I realised that all the transactions you were making were done at night. Was there a reason? Why that was the case?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the Deputy Governor called us to his home between seven heading to eight. That was when we went to his home. We sat there until 9.00 p.m. and then left his home.

Fair enough. Take your seat, Senior Counsel Katwa Kigen. Let us listen to Sen. Wambua.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I will stay with that line of questioning to Senior Counsel Katwa Kigen. Supposing there is an admission on the part of the witness, that indeed he participated in a criminal activity, would that absolve the Deputy Governor from liability of a similar crime?

Secondly, you said the reason you are pushing that line of gambling is to demonstrate before this House that the witness cannot be relied on and that he has a history of using easy ways to get money. Is it then your admission that we should never expect any truth from a person who gambles?

Yes, Senior Counsel Katwa Kigen.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we make no admission. For argument’s sake, if that was the case and the witness was to say that in his state of mind, he gave out the amount deeming it to be a bribe, then there is no corresponding state of mind on the part of the Deputy Governor that he was receiving a bribe.

The Deputy Governor was receiving a refund of money he had given to the parents of my friend, Dennis. On the part of the Deputy Governor, his position is that he was receiving a refund of his money. If on the part of the state of the witness’ mind is that

Fair enough. Take your seat, Senior Counsel Katwa Kigen. Let us listen to Sen. Wambua.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I will stay with that line of questioning to Senior Counsel Katwa Kigen. Supposing there is an admission on the part of the witness, that indeed he participated in a criminal activity, would that absolve the Deputy Governor from liability of a similar crime?

Secondly, you said the reason you are pushing that line of gambling is to demonstrate before this House that the witness cannot be relied on and that he has a history of using easy ways to get money. Is it then your admission that we should never expect any truth from a person who gambles?

Yes, Senior Counsel Katwa Kigen.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we make no admission. For argument’s sake, if that was the case and the witness was to say that in his state of mind, he gave out the amount deeming it to be a bribe, then there is no corresponding state of mind on the part of the Deputy Governor that he was receiving a bribe.

The Deputy Governor was receiving a refund of money he had given to the parents of my friend, Dennis. On the part of the Deputy Governor, his position is that he was receiving a refund of his money. If on the part of the state of the witness’ mind is that

Hon. Members, my dashboard is full. You are all aware this is a time bound proceeding and we must progress. How do we progress? I will not allow any additional Member to seek any clarification. We will have a period within which to get those confirmations at our time.

I will, therefore, direct that the witness can step down. Thank you very much, Dennis.

Counsel, proceed to call your next witness. As you prepare to call the witness, you will indicate the time that you will require for that particular witness so that we cap the time you will take the examination-in-chief as well as cross-examination. For purposes of time, it is now 12 minutes past 6 p.m.

You have taken with your first witness over two hours 30 minutes. What is remaining is one hour and 20 minutes. I need to know how much time you will require for your next witness.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, thank you for that guidance. For purpose of this witness who was the Mover of the Motion, we will need approximately 30 minutes for examine chief.

Senior Counsel, Mr. Katwa Kigen. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: May we request for equal time for cross-examination?

Thank you very much, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I have one question for the witness. The question is that I would want to know his feeling that his father is coming to testify against him.

If the witness got the job, could he have complained? Mr. Dennis, proceed to--- Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, on humanitarian ground, it is very sad and emotional that my dad is against the reality and the truth. He is colluding with somebody who took my money. He is calling for a refund instead of what we call facilitation. It is not a good feeling as a son.

The second question you asked is if the facilitation I was asked was needed and led me get the job, why would I be here? I would be comfortably be working in the office.

Thank you.

Hon. Members, my dashboard is full. You are all aware this is a time bound proceeding and we must progress. How do we progress? I will not allow any additional Member to seek any clarification. We will have a period within which to get those confirmations at our time.

I will, therefore, direct that the witness can step down. Thank you very much, Dennis.

Counsel, proceed to call your next witness. As you prepare to call the witness, you will indicate the time that you will require for that particular witness so that we cap the time you will take the examination-in-chief as well as cross-examination. For purposes of time, it is now 12 minutes past 6 p.m.

You have taken with your first witness over two hours 30 minutes. What is remaining is one hour and 20 minutes. I need to know how much time you will require for your next witness.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, thank you for that guidance. For purpose of this witness who was the Mover of the Motion, we will need approximately 30 minutes for examine chief.

Senior Counsel, Mr. Katwa Kigen. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: May we request for equal time for cross-examination?

You may proceed to be sworn in.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Would you kindly state your names and your qualification and what you do for purposes of record?

My name is Wycliff Siocha Gesongori. I am an elected Member of County Assembly (MCA) for Kisii County Assembly representing the people of Ichuni Ward. I am a financial manager, a banker by profession and the Chairperson of the Committee on Implementation in the County Assembly of Kisii. I am also a Member of the Committee on Health and also Liaison Committee, a family man and a father.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: What was your role in respect to this Motion?

I was the Mover. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: You were the Mover of the Motion?

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: You have charged the Deputy Governor with offenses ranging from gross violation of the Constitution, misconduct and violation of the written law and abuse of office. Is that it?

Yes, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Why have you placed a charge or why have you preferred the said charges? If you were to begin with the charge. Perhaps before we go to the charges, how were you seized of these matters?

The genesis of the Motion before you was as a result of a complaint letter I received from Mr. Dennis Misati.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr.Njiru Ndegwa) : When is the date of the complaint letter?

The complaint letter was received in my office on 21st of December and was addressed to me. It was written by Mr. Dennis Misati.

Yes, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Why have you placed a charge or why have you preferred the said charges? If you were to begin with the charge. Perhaps before we go to the charges, how were you seized of these matters?

The genesis of the Motion before you was as a result of a complaint letter I received from Mr. Dennis Misati.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr.Njiru Ndegwa) : When is the date of the complaint letter?

The complaint letter was received in my office on 21st of December and was addressed to me. It was written by Mr. Dennis Misati.

Counsel Ndegwa, hold on. Sen. Cheptumo, you know how to catch the eye of the Chair. What is your point of intervention?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, I do not intend to interrupt the proceedings, but the witness should rely on his affidavit. He has not been able to confirm to the House that he is relying on the affidavit in his evidence. That is very important.

Sen. Cheptumo, the witness is led by a counsel. I do not expect you to direct on how he wants. Let him proceed.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. Speaker, Sir, thank you for the protection.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I had said that the genesis of the Motion before this Senate was as a result of the letter I received from Mr. Dennis Misati. It is dated 19th but it was received in my office on 21st December,2023.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Let us go to the first charge that appears at page 15 of the bundle of document by the County Assembly. That is the Motion. Are you there?

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: You have charged him for violating the Constitution; Article 73, Article 74 and Article 75. Yes?

That is true. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Did you conduct any preliminary investigations before?

Yes, I did. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: What was revealed in your investigation?

In my investigation, what was revealed was that, indeed, there was canvasing between the Deputy Governor involving the family of one Joseph Misati and the Chief Executive Officer (CEO) for the GWASCO.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: What were the canvasing for?

First, there is a meeting that was initiated by the Deputy Governor which took place in his home and the members present in that meeting were the family members of one Joseph Misati. Also present in that meeting was one Dennis Misati who had already done an interview with GWASCO for the position of commercial manager.

Yes, I did. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: What was revealed in your investigation?

In my investigation, what was revealed was that, indeed, there was canvasing between the Deputy Governor involving the family of one Joseph Misati and the Chief Executive Officer (CEO) for the GWASCO.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: What were the canvasing for?

First, there is a meeting that was initiated by the Deputy Governor which took place in his home and the members present in that meeting were the family members of one Joseph Misati. Also present in that meeting was one Dennis Misati who had already done an interview with GWASCO for the position of commercial manager.

I was there. I heard him personally say. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Did you witness him confirming that he approached both the Chief Executive Officer

(CEO)

of the GWASCO?

Yes, I heard him confirm. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: On page 189 of the bundle of documents, what document is that?

That is the HANSARD report for the Kisii County Assembly proceedings.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: What is the Deputy Governor saying in the last paragraph?

I was there. I heard him personally say. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Did you witness him confirming that he approached both the Chief Executive Officer

(CEO)

of the GWASCO?

Yes, I heard him confirm. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: On page 189 of the bundle of documents, what document is that?

That is the HANSARD report for the Kisii County Assembly proceedings.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: What is the Deputy Governor saying in the last paragraph?

Yes, I met her. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: If yes, what did you confirm that she does at Kisii County?

I confirmed that she is the Managing Director for the GWASCO.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Did you confirm that she was involved in these acts of bribery?

Yes, I confirmed because she revealed to me that the Deputy Governor summoned her to his office and made it known to her that he had a friend who has a son who is interested in the position of the Commercial Manager, which had already been put on the dailies and that the application process was ongoing.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Did you confirm whether Lucy, prior to the sending of the money, had met the Deputy Governor?

Yes, they had met. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Under what circumstances did Lucy disclose to you that they met?

Upon receiving the letter from one Dennis Misati, I started doing my own investigations to ascertain the whole material facts that had been given to me by Dennis Mr. Joseph Misati.

That prompted me to visit the office of the Managing Director in pursuit of getting all the information and exactly the transaction that involved them between the Deputy Governor and herself. That is Lucy.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: So, you confirm that the Deputy Governor did approach one Lucy in favour of a job?

Yes, he did and summoned her to his office. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Again confirm at page 189 of the same bundle of documents by the County Assembly, the last paragraph where the Deputy Governor is testifying.

Yes? The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Were you at the County Assembly at that particular time?

Yes, I was present. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Kindly lead out to the hon. Senators as to what the Deputy Governor indicated on the record.

Yes, he did and summoned her to his office. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Again confirm at page 189 of the same bundle of documents by the County Assembly, the last paragraph where the Deputy Governor is testifying.

Yes? The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Were you at the County Assembly at that particular time?

Yes, I was present. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Kindly lead out to the hon. Senators as to what the Deputy Governor indicated on the record.

It does not surprise me at all. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: At what period were the Kshs100,000 sent?

It was after the interview. It was sent on 28 May, around 9 a.m.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: I want you to have a look at the Deputy Governor's defense.

The money was sent to Lucy because it is on page 99 of the DGs submission. The money was sent to one Lucy Wahito on 28th May, 2023, at 21.24.13. It was after a few minutes past 2100 hrs.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Did she confirm to you what she immediately did after the receipt of the saved monies?

Upon receipt of the money, the Deputy Governor did not call her. However, on the morning of 29th , the one Lucy called the Deputy Governor. Upon calling the Deputy Governor, the Deputy Governor confirmed to her that the sent amount was in reference to the discussions they had with her in his office.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Is Lucy one of the witnesses that you have lined up for cross-examination?

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Now, allow me to lead you to page four of the bundle of documents by the Deputy Governor. Most importantly, paragraph 13. Are you there?

Yes, I am there. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: At page 13, is the Deputy Governor confirming that they have been friends with one Joseph Misati for over 30 years?

Yes, he is confirming that.

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Now, allow me to lead you to page four of the bundle of documents by the Deputy Governor. Most importantly, paragraph 13. Are you there?

Yes, I am there. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: At page 13, is the Deputy Governor confirming that they have been friends with one Joseph Misati for over 30 years?

Yes, he is confirming that.

Yes, he does confirm.

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Can you confirm that you were treated with malice and ill feeling at the time you actuated this Motion against the Deputy Governor? Before that please confirm that you are the Member of the County Assembly

(MCA)

referred to in paragraph 8.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, and for the record, it is immoral---

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Please confirm that you are the MCA referred to.

I confirm that I am the MCA referred to. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Have you internalized those allegations contained therein?

I have internalized all of them. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Have you seen that the Deputy Governor indicates and alleges that you actuated by malice and ill will against him?

Yes, I have seen. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: He labels you as an extortionist, a person who has insatiable greed for money and that he sent you approximately Kshs40,000 and that he could not cope with your demand for more money.

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: That when the demand ceased you actuated this Motion?

That is what he has said.

Yes, I have seen. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: He labels you as an extortionist, a person who has insatiable greed for money and that he sent you approximately Kshs40,000 and that he could not cope with your demand for more money.

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: That when the demand ceased you actuated this Motion?

That is what he has said.

Yes, I confirm. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Did he ever attend that funeral?

He attended in person.

I have the evidence. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, may I ask that the IT Department plays that video clip which is referred to as “Burial”.

Serjent-at-Arms, please process that video clip to play.

Please play the first one minute and the last one minute.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Who is that speaking?

That is myself speaking and next to me is my wife and those are the children that my aunt left.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I do not know whether all the Members of the Assembly are able to follow that language, or perhaps we need an interpreter

Mr. Ndegwa, what language is that?

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: I guess that is the Kisii Language.

Please play the first one minute and the last one minute.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Who is that speaking?

That is myself speaking and next to me is my wife and those are the children that my aunt left.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I do not know whether all the Members of the Assembly are able to follow that language, or perhaps we need an interpreter

Mr. Ndegwa, what language is that?

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: I guess that is the Kisii Language.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, while a few of us have the benefit of following, I am sure majority of the Senators, including Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, may not be able to follow. We will be listening to this clip for 10 minutes, but nobody will be following.

Maybe, you could give direction that an interpreter be availed to concurrently make an interpretation so that the Senators are able to follow. It would also have been nice if we had a written script interpreting what is being said in English so that we are able to follow. However, I do not think it will serve any purpose for the clip to be played while more than three-quarters of the Senators are not following.

Senior Counsel, that is exactly what the Chair was doing. I am informed that we now have an interpreter who can just be ushered in to run us through the interpretation.

Kindly, replay the clip. Let it start and let us have the interpreter to interpret. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for purposes of expediency, we can play the first one minute and the last one minute.

Mr. Ndegwa, just hold on. What is your point of order, Sen. Onyonka?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, my suggestion would be, because it is allowed under the rules of the House and I do not have the Standing Orders; we could allow the clip that is being played to be taken by the Speaker’s office, allow somebody to interpret it and then it is forwarded to us when we will be doing our review tomorrow morning as we proceed. This is because somebody might interpret---

There is already an interpreter. Hon. Members, we now have an interpreter in the House and for purposes of record and clarity, the interpreter is a Kenya Broadcasting Corporation (KBC) staffer who has been seconded to the Senate and is, therefore, fully entitled to support in interpretation.

I will direct that we run the clip so that as the clip runs, we can get the interpretation from the gentleman who has been ushered in.

Clerk, let us run the clip. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. Speaker, Sir, for expediency, the first minute and the last minute are the ones that are relevant.

Okay, please run the first one minute and the last one minute of the clip

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, my suggestion would be, because it is allowed under the rules of the House and I do not have the Standing Orders; we could allow the clip that is being played to be taken by the Speaker’s office, allow somebody to interpret it and then it is forwarded to us when we will be doing our review tomorrow morning as we proceed. This is because somebody might interpret---

There is already an interpreter. Hon. Members, we now have an interpreter in the House and for purposes of record and clarity, the interpreter is a Kenya Broadcasting Corporation (KBC) staffer who has been seconded to the Senate and is, therefore, fully entitled to support in interpretation.

I will direct that we run the clip so that as the clip runs, we can get the interpretation from the gentleman who has been ushered in.

Clerk, let us run the clip. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. Speaker, Sir, for expediency, the first minute and the last minute are the ones that are relevant.

Okay, please run the first one minute and the last one minute of the clip

Kindly play the last part.

The Interpreter

: Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, that is the Deputy Governor for Kisii County. He has said that he would like to be there for the entirety of the funeral, but he is forced to leave because of another ceremony that he is going to attend as he is to represent the Governor. He is giving the message to the MCA, Embande, is the name he is referring to. He is telling him to take good care of the children that have remained behind.

Continue with the video clip.

Kindly pause it there for interpretation.

The Interpreter

: Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the Deputy Governor is giving out the Erongori or support that the Governor has sent him, which is Kshs20,000. He is referring it that way because it is being given to the children and he does not know the name to refer the amount to.

Continue with the video clip.

Continue with the video clip.

Kindly pause it there for interpretation.

The Interpreter

: Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the Deputy Governor is giving out the Erongori or support that the Governor has sent him, which is Kshs20,000. He is referring it that way because it is being given to the children and he does not know the name to refer the amount to.

Continue with the video clip.

Mr. Ndegwa, kindly hold on. Proceed, Sen. Omogeni. I wanted to reprimand you, but---

Pardon me, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I am not an expert in translating from Gusii to English. However, I want you to allow me to seek one clarification from my brother, Mr. Isaac Agwata.

I want him to confirm from the video clip that was played whether the Deputy Governor is saying that they had assisted the MCA in preparation of the funeral, which should be distinguished from the Erongori that he had brought to the funeral.

I want him to confirm whether that was made in the Deputy Governor’s speech. The Interpreter

: Yes. He indicated that they had given him support. Whatever he was giving that day was Erongori and not support.

Thank you, Mr. Agwata, you are released.

Mr. Ndegwa, you may proceed and also take note of the time. I am sure you have been alerted to the minutes you have.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I shall be making an application for the restoration of the time we have wasted while looking for the interpreter.

We did not waste time. We will take care of the amount of time. You will be accommodated.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: We are most obliged. Okay, when was this funeral?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, it was in the month of May.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Which date to be exact if you can remember?

She died around the 5th May, so the funeral run to the 20th May.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Njiru Ndegwa) : You received this money in three bunches?

Yes

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, it was in the month of May.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Which date to be exact if you can remember?

She died around the 5th May, so the funeral run to the 20th May.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Njiru Ndegwa) : You received this money in three bunches?

Yes

When I was escorting the Deputy Governor out of the funeral, he promised to send some money towards the children’s kitty. They had told me that the children who had been left were very young---

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Is that the money that was being sent?

Yes, that is the money that he sent. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Therefore, is it the habit of the Deputy Governor to deny the truth and paint the person speaking the truth as liars?

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: During the proceedings of this impeachment, did you conduct public participation.

Yes, we conducted it as an Assembly. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: What forms did the public participation take?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, they were conducted at the sub-county and ward level.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: What forms did they take? Did you have people submit memoranda?

There were people submitting memoranda and there were those who came for the physical meetings at the various venues that had been spelled out by---

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: What was the purpose of the public participation?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, it was to get the opinion of the electorate of Kisii County on this issue that was before the Assembly.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Did you get that feedback?

Yes, we got the feedback. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: What was the nature of the feedback?

The nature of the feedback was through written memoranda and physical submissions when the meetings were being conducted.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, it was to get the opinion of the electorate of Kisii County on this issue that was before the Assembly.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Did you get that feedback?

Yes, we got the feedback. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: What was the nature of the feedback?

The nature of the feedback was through written memoranda and physical submissions when the meetings were being conducted.

As you do that, just for your comfort, whenever we have such interventions, your time does not move. However, for guidance’s sake, you have three minutes to conclude on your examination.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I am most obliged. Let us proceed to video Clip No.2.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I think we still need the interpreter.

Is there any other clip that you shall require interpretation on?

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Yes, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

Let us then have the interpreter, Mr. Agwata, here until such a time when we will be done with him.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: We are most guided.

was ushered into the Chamber) Now that he is back, kindly play clip No. 1.

What is she saying? The Interpreter

: I have not gotten her name.

She is called Irene, Mama wa mutura.

The Interpreter

: She is Irene and she is asking that they have given this position to hon. Monda. Hon. Monda started asking for bribes. She is selling

Is there any other clip that you shall require interpretation on?

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Yes, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

The Interpreter (Mr. Isaac Agwata): Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Njiru Ndegwa): Who is he? The Interpreter (Mr. Isaac Agwata):

Kindly recap what you have said.

Services, Senate. mutura. She is asking whether she can take the children to school if Dr. Monda is asking for a bribe to give a bursary.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Njiru Ndegwa): Play the next clip.

The Interpreter (Mr. Isaac Agwata): Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Njiru Ndegwa): Who is he? The Interpreter (Mr. Isaac Agwata):

Yes, he swore an affidavit. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Is that the affidavit appearing on page 283 of the bundle of documents by the county assembly? Volume 1?

It is the one appearing. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Is he confirming those assertions and allegations in his affidavit?

Yes, he is. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Is he confirming that the price of land was Kshs500,000, but was negotiated to Kshs200,000?

Yes.

It is the one appearing. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Is he confirming those assertions and allegations in his affidavit?

Yes, he is. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Is he confirming that the price of land was Kshs500,000, but was negotiated to Kshs200,000?

Yes.

The County Assembly did two dailies; that is in the Daily Nation and The Standard newspapers inviting the members of the public to appear in different sub-county venues. So, the members of the public had the opportunity to either attend at the sub-county level or ward level. Since, the initiative of going to the ward level was of us as MCAs.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Where was the clip recorded from?

It was recorded in Kesusu, where the sub- county venue for Masaba South public participation was done for.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: I am satisfied with that answer. Let us move to the question of the abuse of office. Yes?

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: You have accused the Deputy Governor of abuse of office. Yes?

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: And that he deployed 20 county enforcement officers to procure an arrest?

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Did you confirm that?

Yes. I confirmed. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Have you lined up a witness to come and confirm that allegation?

Yes. There is a witness already lined up to come and witness.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: What action has the County Assembly, through the oversight mechanism, initiated to confirm the veracity of that position?

It is in one of our departmental Committee on Labour. So, it is an issue that is currently under investigation.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Did you confirm whether or not the 20 officers were appropriately or procedurally deployed by the person in charge of deployment?

Yes. I confirmed. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Have you lined up a witness to come and confirm that allegation?

Yes. There is a witness already lined up to come and witness.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: What action has the County Assembly, through the oversight mechanism, initiated to confirm the veracity of that position?

It is in one of our departmental Committee on Labour. So, it is an issue that is currently under investigation.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Did you confirm whether or not the 20 officers were appropriately or procedurally deployed by the person in charge of deployment?

Yes. He is one of my witnesses. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: It is your allegation that the Deputy Governor has deployed, unlawfully and unprocedurally, four enforcement officers to do manual works, odd jobs like milking and cooking for dogs?

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Did you confirm that allegation?

I confirmed. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Is that proper application of his role or functions of the Deputy Governor?

It is not proper. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Have you lined up a witness to confirm whether or not all these deployments were procedural?

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Did you summon? How is the witness coming?

The County Assembly of Kisii, through the Senate, requested, Agayo Oyagi, who is the current Acting Director of Enforcement of Kisii County.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Was he a witness at the County Assembly?

He was not a witness. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Finally, what would you want these hon. Senators, to do, in respect to your motion?

Hon. Senators, this was one of the hard decisions that I had to make. For one reason that the Deputy Governor for Kisii, Dr. Robert Monda, is a very close friend of mine and, on the other side, I had this young man who was miserable and had already been duped his money.

So, I had to make a tough decision. I was not only doing this for Mr. Dennis Misati, but for the many jobless poor youths outside there, who have found themselves in the hands of unsuspecting civil servants, public officers and State officers. These people solicit funds from them in the promise that they can be give them jobs, but at the end of the day, they end up not having jobs.

The County Assembly of Kisii, through the Senate, requested, Agayo Oyagi, who is the current Acting Director of Enforcement of Kisii County.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Was he a witness at the County Assembly?

He was not a witness. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Finally, what would you want these hon. Senators, to do, in respect to your motion?

Hon. Senators, this was one of the hard decisions that I had to make. For one reason that the Deputy Governor for Kisii, Dr. Robert Monda, is a very close friend of mine and, on the other side, I had this young man who was miserable and had already been duped his money.

So, I had to make a tough decision. I was not only doing this for Mr. Dennis Misati, but for the many jobless poor youths outside there, who have found themselves in the hands of unsuspecting civil servants, public officers and State officers. These people solicit funds from them in the promise that they can be give them jobs, but at the end of the day, they end up not having jobs.

They are absolutely not related to this proceeding.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: The question of harassment and intimidation by the Deputy Governor towards Mr. Dennis Misati, did you establish these averments?

When Mr. Dennis Misati approached me, I think it was earlier December. He confided in me that his life was in danger. The communication that he relayed to me was from his father and it was being relayed on behalf of the Deputy Governor, when Dennis Misati gave an indication that he was going to record a statement with the EACC.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Are you aware where Mr. Dennis Misati and his wife are currently living?

No. I do not know where they are currently living.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Did you establish how Mr. Dennis Misati raised the Kshs800, 000?

Yes. I spoke with him and he told me he was running a saloon in Ruai. He had been given instructions by his father that by the assurance of the Deputy Governor, that the job was being given to him, some money was needed. Therefore, he sold the businesses because he had to relocate.

He sold his entire household, --- The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Thank you. Did he confirm to you whether or not that transaction had any effect to his family?

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: What did he tell you?

Which transaction, sorry?

Yes. I spoke with him and he told me he was running a saloon in Ruai. He had been given instructions by his father that by the assurance of the Deputy Governor, that the job was being given to him, some money was needed. Therefore, he sold the businesses because he had to relocate.

He sold his entire household, --- The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Thank you. Did he confirm to you whether or not that transaction had any effect to his family?

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: What did he tell you?

Which transaction, sorry?

That is true? The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Thank you.

Additionally, for record purposes, the person who took Dennis’ wife to the hospital is his father.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Confirm that again.

Mr. Ndegwa, you have done 14 minutes outside the time you requested.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: I am well guided. I yield the witness for cross-examination.

Proceed, Mr. Katwa Kigen. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Good evening Mheshimiwa.

Good evening to you, Mr. Katwa Kigen.

Proceed and be mindful of the 20 minutes time that I have allocated you.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. It is your testimony that you indeed conducted verification of the allegations that you are bringing against the Deputy Governor.

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: That includes the question of whether or not he received a bribe from Mr. Dennis.

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Whether he sent a bribe to Lucy?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Whether he threatened him?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: He used Kisii County staff?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Whether he sent a bribe to Lucy?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Whether he threatened him?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: He used Kisii County staff?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You were subsequently there on the 21st when you moved your Motion?

Yes. I was there. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Eventually, you were there on the 29th when the motion was discussed and the Deputy Governor was afforded the chance to defend himself?

Yes. I was there. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: And a voting was done?

Yes, I was there. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: On that occasion of 29th, did you play these clips of public participation?

No, I did not play them. They were not--- The Counsel for Deputy Governor

: You did not play them, is it not?

The report was provided and tabled before the Assembly for public participation.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: When you were moving your Motion, you did not play them, is it not?

There was a report--- The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Answer my question. When tabling your Motion, you did not play them.

No, I did not play, but it was to be provided by the County Assembly.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Just answer my question. So you did not play them yourself? Do you recall them having been played for the Deputy Governor to see at that time?

No. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: They were not played.

I take it that as you stand here, you are familiar with the County Governments Act and Standing Orders that are relevant.

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Okay. What is your understanding of how a Motion for Impeachment is supposed to be moved?

No, I did not play, but it was to be provided by the County Assembly.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Just answer my question. So you did not play them yourself? Do you recall them having been played for the Deputy Governor to see at that time?

No. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: They were not played.

I take it that as you stand here, you are familiar with the County Governments Act and Standing Orders that are relevant.

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Okay. What is your understanding of how a Motion for Impeachment is supposed to be moved?

Yes, I complied. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: It is your position that you complied with Section 15?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Did you comply with Standing Order Nos.194 and 195 of the Kisii County Assembly Standing Orders?

Yes, I complied. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, because of time, I will deal with that in the legal arguments.

I would like you to go to the bundle from the County Government. I would like us to go to page 96. Are you there?

Yes, I am there. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Could you confirm that from pages 96 to 103 are proceedings of 29th where you moved your Motion, voting was done and the Deputy Governor was heard in his defence? Is that correct?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Let us start with page 96. Are you there?

Yes, I am there. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Do you confirm what I have said, that the defence of the Deputy Governor, voting, and moving your Motion was on 29th?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: That heading of “votes and proceedings” is also accurate?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: I would like us to go to the contents of page 103. You can see where your name is? Can you see where it is stated that Hon. Wycliff Siocha moved the Motion?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Hon. Members, I am referring to page 103 of the County Assembly bundle. That is the one that has different colours. The Motion was seconded by Hon. Karen Magara. Can you see that?

Yes, I can see.

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: I would like us to go to the contents of page 103. You can see where your name is? Can you see where it is stated that Hon. Wycliff Siocha moved the Motion?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Hon. Members, I am referring to page 103 of the County Assembly bundle. That is the one that has different colours. The Motion was seconded by Hon. Karen Magara. Can you see that?

Yes, I can see.

It is not correct. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: This contention that the events of 29th entailed moving of a Motion for Adjournment for public participation on 29th is incorrect?

That is what I am saying, counsel. This is not a true position. Probably there was a mix-up of documents because---

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Mheshimiwa, I am the one asking you questions. The HANSARD brought to this Senate says that on 29th, proceedings were adjourned for purposes of going to public participation. Are you saying that this HANSARD is incorrect?

This is not a HANSARD report. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: What is it?

It is part of the Motion that I moved. What I am seeing here is purely a mix-up of documents because the HANSARD report for 29th---

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Which question are you answering?

Let me explain on the question you asked, counsel.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: When you at page 96, it says; the House assembled at 9.000 a.m., proceedings were opened with a word of prayer, then there was a Motion for removal from office, by way of Impeachmen of the Deputy Governor, by Hon. Wycliff Siocha Gesongori.

You can read all that on those pages. There were interventions by various people. On page 103, you confirmed that you moved the Motion as is indicated and Hon. Magara seconded it. So far, that is correct, is it not?

That is correct to that level. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You are saying this is not the HANSARD report?

It is part of the Motion that I moved. What I am seeing here is purely a mix-up of documents because the HANSARD report for 29th---

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Which question are you answering?

Let me explain on the question you asked, counsel.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: When you at page 96, it says; the House assembled at 9.000 a.m., proceedings were opened with a word of prayer, then there was a Motion for removal from office, by way of Impeachmen of the Deputy Governor, by Hon. Wycliff Siocha Gesongori.

You can read all that on those pages. There were interventions by various people. On page 103, you confirmed that you moved the Motion as is indicated and Hon. Magara seconded it. So far, that is correct, is it not?

That is correct to that level. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You are saying this is not the HANSARD report?

Yes, it was a Thursday. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: On that day, votes were done, is it not?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: And 53 of you said the Deputy Governor should be impeached and the others said he should not be impeached.

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

:: That happened on 29th, is it not?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: From pages 96 to 103, can you see that report of those events at the County Assembly on that day?

That is why I still insist that there is a mix-up of---

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Please answer my question. Is there a report of the fact that on 29th, voting happened and a resolution was made to impeach the Deputy Governor?

No, it is not there. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: On that second basis, this document is inaccurate, is it not?

It is inaccurate. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: I would like us to move to page 137. Hon. Members, I am still referring to the same bundle by the County Government on the contents of page 137.

Is that a HANSARD report or you still maintain it is not?

That is the HANSARD report. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: May we look at page 137? It says; County Assembly of Kisii, Official Report, Special Sitting. The events of 29th was a Special Sitting for purposes of discussing the impeachment, is it not?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: The Special Sitting was held on 29th February. Could you tell this Senate when the Assembly sat? Which day of the week was it?

Come up again.

That is the HANSARD report. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: May we look at page 137? It says; County Assembly of Kisii, Official Report, Special Sitting. The events of 29th was a Special Sitting for purposes of discussing the impeachment, is it not?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: The Special Sitting was held on 29th February. Could you tell this Senate when the Assembly sat? Which day of the week was it?

Come up again.

No, I am not responsible. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: How do you then know it was typographical?

Because I was there. It was on Thursday and I can remember the accounts and the proceedings that we had in the County Assembly.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: So, when it says it is Tuesday, is that wrong?

That is a typo error. It is wrong. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Then you will agree with me that even when this Senate wants to look at what you did in the County Assembly, it is true that the HANSARD has been manipulated and even the Senate cannot see?

That is not true. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Okay it is not true. Is it true that 29th was on Tuesday and that you sat on Tuesday?

It was not of course. That is a typo error. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: There are other issues I have raised.

Okay, I will move on to a different issue, but the point I am making is that because the 53 of you were very determined to remove the deputy governor, you go as far as manipulating the HANSARD.

No, we are not manipulating the HANSARD and we are not that determined, we are just following the law.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You are not determined; you are desperate. I would like us to move on to the Motion that you moved. We agree that you moved the Motion on the 13th, is it not?

I did not move the Motion, but I gave notice of Motion.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: I apologies, you are right.

Thank you.

No, we are not manipulating the HANSARD and we are not that determined, we are just following the law.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You are not determined; you are desperate. I would like us to move on to the Motion that you moved. We agree that you moved the Motion on the 13th, is it not?

I did not move the Motion, but I gave notice of Motion.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: I apologies, you are right.

Thank you.

That is true. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Now, the first thing I want us to agree is that you issued the notice on 13th?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: As we have already discussed, you eventually managed to move the Motion on 29th and voting was done?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Do you agree on the face of it that 10 days would have expired on 23rd and by 29th when the Motion was being moved, discussed, and voted upon, it was already outside the 10 days?

Of course, it was already outside the 10 days. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Did you say of course?

No, sorry, it is outside the 10 days. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Thank you. Now, I would like you to go to page 3A of that same bundle. These are the Standing Orders upon which you moved the Motion, are they not?

Just a minute. I am not getting the page 3A. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You have gone too far; it is a little back.

These are the Standing Orders under which you moved the Motion. Standing Order No. 60 to 64, is it not?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Now, could we look at Standing Order No. 60

(4)

. Let us start 60

(3)

, it says that-

“A member who has obtained the approval of the Speaker to move a Motion under paragraph one shall give seven days’ notice

calling for impeachment of the governor. Upon expiry of the seven days and after notice is given, the Motion shall be placed in the order paper

and shall be disposed off within three days”.

Do you agree with me that within the intention of that Standing Order, you should have disposed off this Motion within 10 days?

No, sorry, it is outside the 10 days. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Thank you. Now, I would like you to go to page 3A of that same bundle. These are the Standing Orders upon which you moved the Motion, are they not?

Just a minute. I am not getting the page 3A. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You have gone too far; it is a little back.

These are the Standing Orders under which you moved the Motion. Standing Order No. 60 to 64, is it not?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Now, could we look at Standing Order No. 60

(4)

. Let us start 60

(3)

, it says that-

“A member who has obtained the approval of the Speaker to move a Motion under paragraph one shall give seven days’ notice

calling for impeachment of the governor. Upon expiry of the seven days and after notice is given, the Motion shall be placed in the order paper

and shall be disposed off within three days”.

Do you agree with me that within the intention of that Standing Order, you should have disposed off this Motion within 10 days?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: When you went for public participation, you scheduled the public participation for the 26th February. Is it not?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Do you also agree that that public participation done on the 26th was already outside the 10 days which ended on the 23rd February. Is it not?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Thank you. Now, Standing Order No.60 requires that before giving notice under Section 33 of the County Governments Act, the member shall deliver to the Clerk a copy of the prosed Motion in writing stating the grounds and particulars. Is it not?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Could you agree that the notice that you raised did not have these grounds and particulars?

It had the grounds and the particulars in reference to the Kisii County Standing Orders.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: We are looking at the document at page 5, is it not? Hon. Members, page 5 of the deputy governor’s bundle. Are you there?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: That is the notice issued on 13th. Is that not?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: It is your contention that when we say gross violation of the Constitution, abuse of office, gross misconduct, and crimes under national law, you have complied with the need for grounds and particulars. Is that your position?

All the documentation including the signature- --

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Question, apart from this document dated 13th, did you issue anything else?

Yes, I issued. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Where is it? Is it attached to this?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: It is your contention that when we say gross violation of the Constitution, abuse of office, gross misconduct, and crimes under national law, you have complied with the need for grounds and particulars. Is that your position?

All the documentation including the signature- --

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Question, apart from this document dated 13th, did you issue anything else?

Yes, I issued. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Where is it? Is it attached to this?

Yes, it had been indicated. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Is it the one which is attached to the document on page 6 being the ---

No, they are not the ones. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: So, is there another set that the county Assembly has not brought here?

All particulars have been provided for. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: I know they have been provided for in the Motion of 21st. What I am saying is; if you are saying they were attachments to the notice of 13th, then the County Assembly has chosen to keep them away.

Maybe. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Now, I would like us then to move to the public participation report that you then came up with, which is in the county Government bundle volume 1. Starting from page 24 to page 51. Are you there?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Now, could you confirm to this Senate that the public participation document is on page 24 to page 51?

Yes, I confirm. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Could you confirm that the entirety of that public participation report is not signed by anybody? Nobody has taken possession of it.

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Now, you said you were present throughout the prosecution of this Motion right from the notice on 13th, 28th- --

Counsel Katwa, your time is up. You should be winding upon your questions.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, considering the volume of the material they brought, they had said 30 minutes and they took about one hour.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I pray for your indulgence. Kindly, this witness makes all the difference, and we pray for your accommodation, kindly.

Yes, I confirm. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Could you confirm that the entirety of that public participation report is not signed by anybody? Nobody has taken possession of it.

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Now, you said you were present throughout the prosecution of this Motion right from the notice on 13th, 28th- --

Counsel Katwa, your time is up. You should be winding upon your questions.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, considering the volume of the material they brought, they had said 30 minutes and they took about one hour.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I pray for your indulgence. Kindly, this witness makes all the difference, and we pray for your accommodation, kindly.

Not 20. I am giving you 10, Counsel Katwa.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Thank you. Now, when you were in the Assembly, it is true that, indeed, the deputy governor

(DG)

complained that he has not been given a copy of the public participation report.

Yes, he complained. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: He also defended himself before he saw that report, is that not so?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Okay. Now, I want you to look at page 103. You sympathize with me on the way I have been treated on time, is it not so?

On which grounds? The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Page 103. Are you at page 103 of the County Assembly report, please? At page 103, as much as we have agreed, that it was misplaced in terms of the date, it was true that Hon. Henry Moracha moved a Motion for public participation.

That is not true. Actually, the County Assembly Majority Leader moved a Motion on 21st, so as to allow public participation.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Is this the name of the---

Give me a minute, Counsel. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Is this the name of the Leader of---

Excuse me, Counsel, I am making a Statement because you have asked a question. This Motion was moved on 21st by the Majority Leader of the Kisii County Assembly, to allow for Members to adjourn so that they can go for public participation, which is not provided for in our Standing Orders. However, remember, the Constitution of Kenya is supreme---

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You are going too far. It is okay. So, other than that the date is wrong, is this the correct state of the moving of Motion for public participation? Was the public participation Motion in the words used by the County Assembly Majority Leader, “rose on Standing Order No. 93 for adjournment to allow for public participation”, correct?

Yes.

Give me a minute, Counsel. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Is this the name of the Leader of---

Excuse me, Counsel, I am making a Statement because you have asked a question. This Motion was moved on 21st by the Majority Leader of the Kisii County Assembly, to allow for Members to adjourn so that they can go for public participation, which is not provided for in our Standing Orders. However, remember, the Constitution of Kenya is supreme---

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You are going too far. It is okay. So, other than that the date is wrong, is this the correct state of the moving of Motion for public participation? Was the public participation Motion in the words used by the County Assembly Majority Leader, “rose on Standing Order No. 93 for adjournment to allow for public participation”, correct?

Yes.

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You did not. You did not also agree on who would collect the views of the public.

It was the County Clerk in the HANSARD and Communication Department.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You did not do that. Is that not so? It is also true that eventually it was the governor who financed the public participation and used the ward administrators. Is that not so?

No. The governor did not ask--- The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: May I ask, did the ward administrators play any role in this public participation?

They did not play any role. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: I would like you to go to page 41 of the same County Assembly Report, which is the public participation process. I would like you to look at the last paragraph -Moticho Ward. Are you there?

Yes, I am there. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Does it say that the exercise was headed by the Ward Administrator and Ward Manager?

That is what the Statement reads. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: That is what it says. So, indeed, the Governor and the Executive participated in this public participation. Is it not so?

They did not participate.

When the public participations were being conducted---

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Is this the report, correct?

It is not correct. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: So, you are now saying the County Assembly’s public participation's report is not correct?

No, I am not denouncing, but particularly on that aspect---

When the public participations were being conducted---

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Is this the report, correct?

It is not correct. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: So, you are now saying the County Assembly’s public participation's report is not correct?

No, I am not denouncing, but particularly on that aspect---

Counsel, when this interview---

Not true. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Did you, in any of the clips, see the public behind those people? Was there any that you could see a crowd?

Individual public--- The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Answer my question.

No. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Was any of the clips with members of public behind it?

They were. Some had and some did not have because some of these individual interviews were being recorded aside, not amongst crowd.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Listen to me. In the clips that you played today, is there any that has members of public in its background?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Okay. We will look at them again when we come to our defense. Mr. Dennis says that you lied, that he is a voter in your Ward. Is he a voter in your Ward?

Nowhere on record am I saying that Dennis comes from my Ward.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You said that in the HANSARD, in your submissions, when you were moving a Motion and saying---

I remember well I said that, by the time Dennis was doing a complaint to me, he was staying at Gitare, which is in Nyaribari.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: I want to ask you the last question, then my colleague will just ask you a few questions. Is it true you said that you spoke to Ms. Lucy Wahito, and she gave you information?

Yes.

Nowhere on record am I saying that Dennis comes from my Ward.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You said that in the HANSARD, in your submissions, when you were moving a Motion and saying---

I remember well I said that, by the time Dennis was doing a complaint to me, he was staying at Gitare, which is in Nyaribari.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: I want to ask you the last question, then my colleague will just ask you a few questions. Is it true you said that you spoke to Ms. Lucy Wahito, and she gave you information?

Yes.

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Notwithstanding that, it is your position that that money from that sale was for purposes of a bribe?

Yes, it was. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Okay. Did Dennis tell you that there was no time when he had a conversation between himself and Dr. Monda?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: He told you he had no conversation?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Now, did it occur to you to talk to the father of Dennis, or it would not be convenient to the case you had been told to move?

No, I did not reach out to him, because all the material that I needed to prosecute the Motion was provided to me by one Dennis Misati. So, I saw no need at all to reach out.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: The instructions I have is that the funeral of your aunt was on the 12th of May, 2023. Do you contest that?

I may not be able to contest that. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Having done the funeral on 12th of May, what business did you have, receiving money from Dr. Monda on the 29th of May, 28th May and 7th of May?

This was a commitment from the Deputy Governor. When I was escorting him to the car, he said that he was to send something in regard to---

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Thank you. I had to say that.

There is nowhere I called or did a message soliciting for any money from him. It was for that purpose.

I may not be able to contest that. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Having done the funeral on 12th of May, what business did you have, receiving money from Dr. Monda on the 29th of May, 28th May and 7th of May?

This was a commitment from the Deputy Governor. When I was escorting him to the car, he said that he was to send something in regard to---

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Thank you. I had to say that.

There is nowhere I called or did a message soliciting for any money from him. It was for that purpose.

You still have two minutes or so. So, you can conclude.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I have been unlucky. I have not had enough good time. I will try to limit, but I will beg that you possibly give me five minutes. I will be very specific.

Your time is two minutes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Hon. Siocha, there are many governance issues in Kisii County. Is that correct? There are many disputes and fights and you have heard Sen. Cherarkey speak of fights in funerals. Are there many governance issues in Kisii? Kuna vita Kisii kwetu. Is that correct? My time is running.

It is not correct. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Is it true that this Motion is before the Senate because there are disputes about governance in Kisii between the deputy governor and the governor?

I am the Mover. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Is it because of the governance issues?

Not at all and nowhere does that find its way in this Motion.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Are you aware that the Deputy Governor has been uncomfortable with the Governor conducting government business in the House? Yes, or no?

I am not aware because I do not work in the executive.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Are you aware that the absorption of the Kisii budget is at two percent, No. 47 of 47 in Kenya?

Unless you want me to expound me on your questions.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Yes, or no? I do not have the time.

As the Chair of Implementation, that is not the position.

I am not aware because I do not work in the executive.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Are you aware that the absorption of the Kisii budget is at two percent, No. 47 of 47 in Kenya?

Unless you want me to expound me on your questions.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Yes, or no? I do not have the time.

As the Chair of Implementation, that is not the position.

There is no material fact on that so I cannot confirm. I participated in the process, and I stand at a better position to give information on that. However, let us not divert.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Is it true and the deputy governor’s case is that these small disputes are the ones that have caused this Motion to be here?

Are you trying to inform this Senate that it is those disputes that made the deputy governor Dr. Monda, to go and solicit a bribe from one Dennis Misati?

The Counsel for the Deputy

: I do not have time and I do not want to be called for time. Let me ask my last question.

Counsel, your time is up. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, allow me to ask one last question on public participation and the bursaries.

Are you aware of the County Bursary Fund Committee and the Ward Bursary Fund Committee and whether you are aware that in Kisii, because you are a Member of the County Assembly (MCA) , that no one has ever gotten more than Kshs5,000 from the County bursaries? Someone---

Counsel, your time is up. Mr. Witness, answer that question.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we have grounds especially for students who come from poor and extremely needy backgrounds. They usually get more than the Kshs5,000. There are others equally on full scholarships.

Very well. Mr. Ndegwa. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for the opportunity for re-examination. I do not want to shoot in the dark as it has been and experienced. Mr. Witness, what has brought us here?

Is it the issue of the governor and the wrangles they could be having or not having or the question of the conduct of the deputy governor?

It is the question of the conduct of the deputy governor.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we have grounds especially for students who come from poor and extremely needy backgrounds. They usually get more than the Kshs5,000. There are others equally on full scholarships.

Very well. Mr. Ndegwa. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for the opportunity for re-examination. I do not want to shoot in the dark as it has been and experienced. Mr. Witness, what has brought us here?

Is it the issue of the governor and the wrangles they could be having or not having or the question of the conduct of the deputy governor?

It is the question of the conduct of the deputy governor.

Mr. Ndegwa, I need to know the time you will take for your re-exam.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I am almost done. Five minutes will suffice.

We begin at page 122, hon. Senators. You will see where we have one hon. Henry Moracha moving a Motion for adjournment. He subsequently makes submissions and guidance at page 123, the last paragraph which begins by:

“I hereby beg to move the Motion of adjournment to allow the people of Kisii County give their views by way of public participation, either by way of memoranda, questionnaires or any other manner suitable to the Clerk.”

Are the clips that you have played there contemplated as one of the manners of giving evidence?

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Who conducts public participation? Is it the County Assembly or the office of the governor?

It is the County Assembly. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Is the office of the governor involved in the oversight works of the County Assembly?

Absolutely not. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Was the governor involved in these processes?

He was not involved. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Will I therefore be right to say that the defence has formulated their own case to which they are answering to and hence the question on the issues of the budget?

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Are those issues on trial before this Senate?

They are not on trial before the Senate. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Was the defense served with the public participation report?

It was served upon request by the deputy governor.

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Are those issues on trial before this Senate?

They are not on trial before the Senate. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Was the defense served with the public participation report?

It was served upon request by the deputy governor.

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Finally, have you looked at the defence that has been brought forth by the deputy governor?

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Has he answered in his affidavit or refuted the clips that you have played?

He has not. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Has he answered to them?

He has not. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Has he disputed those allegations?

He has not. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Has he brought his clips to countenance to what we have brought forth?

He has not. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: It has been put to you that there are no members of the public who participated. Would you like to play Clip No. 1?

I would wish, and I seek the indulgence of the Temporary Speaker that clip No. 1 be played.

Counsel, I gave you five minutes. You have two minutes and that will eat into your time.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I am done, and I am most obliged. Clip No. 1 and I am off.

As we proceed, where is the office of the deputy governor situated?

It is situated at Gusii Stadium. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: So, they share the Gusii Stadium?

Yes, they share. There is the office of the governor and that of the deputy governor.

Counsel, I gave you five minutes. You have two minutes and that will eat into your time.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I am done, and I am most obliged. Clip No. 1 and I am off.

As we proceed, where is the office of the deputy governor situated?

It is situated at Gusii Stadium. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: So, they share the Gusii Stadium?

Yes, they share. There is the office of the governor and that of the deputy governor.

I did not have any role to play. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Who produced those clips?

It was the Hansard and the Communication Department for the Kisii County Assembly.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I yield the witness to the hon. Senators.

Thank you, hon. Members. In the interest of time, I will limit the number of Members that we will allow for clarification, to four.

I will start with Sen. Joe Nyutu. The time you can take is two minutes maximum.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I will spend less than the two minutes you have given me. I need clarification from the witness and his side. Who commands the County Enforcement Officers in Kisii County? I ask that because there is an allegation that the deputy governor has been misusing these particular officers.

Number two, the Deputy Governor has been accused, and we have viewed several videos, of soliciting for bribes for him to influence the issuance of bursaries in the County. So, would the witness tell this House, what role the Deputy Governor plays in the giving of bursaries in Kisii County?

Apart from the video that has been played for the second time, we observed that the other clips that were playing showed people, but did not show other attendees of the public participation function. That is one thing that we would want the witness to clarify.

If you would allow me to ask---

Sen. Joe Nyutu, you have asked three questions. Kindly take your seat.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

Kindly respond to those questions.

Sen. Joe Nyutu, you have asked three questions. Kindly take your seat.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

Kindly respond to those questions.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, allow me to get some clarity from the Counsel for the defense. Other than the date on page 137, which is the HANSARD Report, is the contention of the defense, the Counsel for governor, that this document is not a true reflection of what happened in the Assembly on 29th February, 2024.

Secondly, on the same document, I can see references at page 211 and 217 to Mr. Katwa Kigen, the same lawyer appearing before us. If he was present in the House, he can clear up. I want to ask him one thing. He has told us here that the evidence of a known gambler: somebody who participates in sports betting, is something to be taken with circumspection.

Sen. Sifuna---

Let me put the question.

Yes.

I am at page 217 of the HANSARD. I want to know if it is true that this is what Mr. Katwa Kigen said. There is a paragraph at the top there, where he says or is reported to have been saying, “Hon. Members, I pray that you do take this view that a question of bribery is a question of choosing who to believe. Do you want to believe a 68 years old retired man who has been friends with Dr. Monda for 32 years and saying this is not a bribe or a young gentleman who is saying it is a bribe?” I want Mr. Katwa Kigen to clarify whether indeed the evidence of a young man should also be taken with the same circumspection that he claims evidence from a gambler should be taken.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

Senior Counsel, Mr. Katwa Kigen, respond to those questions by Sen. Sifuna.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, my point is that the HANSARD has been manipulated. It is not an accurate representation of what happened in terms of--- If the events resulting the adjournment were events of 21st which should be the actual date, why would the report be headed the date of the argument, the defense and the voting when it did not happen on that date?

All I am saying is that when you look at that HANSARD, it should enrich our argument that there is a certain strong force within the Assembly, incorporating my good friend, Hon. Siocha, who are very determined to have the deputy governor impeached

Yes.

I am at page 217 of the HANSARD. I want to know if it is true that this is what Mr. Katwa Kigen said. There is a paragraph at the top there, where he says or is reported to have been saying, “Hon. Members, I pray that you do take this view that a question of bribery is a question of choosing who to believe. Do you want to believe a 68 years old retired man who has been friends with Dr. Monda for 32 years and saying this is not a bribe or a young gentleman who is saying it is a bribe?” I want Mr. Katwa Kigen to clarify whether indeed the evidence of a young man should also be taken with the same circumspection that he claims evidence from a gambler should be taken.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

Senior Counsel, Mr. Katwa Kigen, respond to those questions by

Sen. Orwoba, ask your question.

Services, Senate. and are prepared to manage the Hansard. This is because the HANSARD is supposed to speak for itself. It is not supposed to be a document that you would come and say that it has typographical errors. We have concerns about the way the HANSARD was reported and that is part of the malice against the Deputy Governor.

On the issue of the arguments, I made at page 217; I stand by them and I intend to make the same arguments at the end of these proceedings. I will say that here is Mr. and Mrs Misati. Mr. Misati is 68 years old and his son is 37 years old. This is not a case where anybody is coming to say there was money, a forgery of a document---

This is not documentary evidence, but a question of one word against the other. What I have been trying to tell the Assembly and will be requesting this Senate to do is to see the extent to which this case entirely rests on and whom to believe. We will pray that you choose to believe the father who is 68 years old together with his wife, vis-a-vis what the son is saying. More so, when it is aggravated by the point where the son says he was not present when the discussions were had and cannot say for a fact whether or not the money was discussed as being a bribe or a refund.

Very well, you have answered the question.

Proceed, Sen. Orwoba.

Services, Senate.

It is my view that in previous writings, it has been stated that if the impeachment already stands outside time, it is invalid and should be thrown away. I will be praying that you should not look at it as a question of technicality but a question of substantive justice.

Sen. Beth Syengo you want to seek any clarification.

Thank you, Temporary Mr. Speaker, Sir. I want to seek clarification from the counsel. When he was asking about the clips that were played on the audience, in public meetings, when a speaker is making a speech, is it usual to focus on the audience or the speaker?

When I looked at Mama Wamutura speaking, she was speaking from her heart, because this is something that is hurting her. When I see a woman getting emotional---

Sen. Beth, your question is made.

Services, Senate.

It is my view that in previous writings, it has been stated that if the impeachment already stands outside time, it is invalid and should be thrown away. I will be praying that you should not look at it as a question of technicality but a question of substantive justice.

Sen. Beth Syengo you want to seek any clarification.

Thank you, Temporary Mr. Speaker, Sir. I want to seek clarification from the counsel. When he was asking about the clips that were played on the audience, in public meetings, when a speaker is making a speech, is it usual to focus on the audience or the speaker?

When I looked at Mama Wamutura speaking, she was speaking from her heart, because this is something that is hurting her. When I see a woman getting emotional---

Sen. Beth, your question is made.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Allow me to raise the second concern. Who runs the Governor's Bursary Fund and what is the role of the deputy governor in it?

Thank you.

Services, Senate. clarifications. You note that this is a time-bound proceeding that must be prosecuted between now and the close of business tomorrow.

So, I will close at that so that we progress to the next witness.

Thank you, Katwa Kigen. Mr. Wycliffe, respond to the second question by Sen. Syengo.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, there is a special program domiciled in the office of the governor. The question that the hon. Senator asked; who was responsible? It is the office of the governor.

Thank you very much. Honorable Members, I had directed that I will only allow a maximum of four members to seek

So we will take 30 minutes for the exam in chief. We will do 20 minutes for cross-examination.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: We are most obliged. My learned friend, Mr. Mwangi will take the witness.

So, I will close at that so that we progress to the next witness.

Thank you for the kind permission to seek your directions. On whether it is proper for the Senior Counsel to impute improper motive, I did introduce the clips well knowing that I am only executing the functions of an advocate representing a client.

Mr. Ndegwa, remember a ruling was made earlier on regarding the objections that both parties had raised with regard to evidence and additional information that could not have been or could have been. That ruling was read in your presence. Allow this House to deal with them at an appropriate time.

Thank you. You are discharged. Honourable member, call upon your next witness so that we also guide with regards to time.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, our next witness is a lady who goes by the name of Lucy Wahito; the diligent Public Officer.

was ushered into the Chamber)

As Lucy is brought to the witness stand, how much time do you intend to spend?

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I will take similar time;30 minutes will suffice.

Services, Senate.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Njiru): Good evening, Lucy.

Ms. Lucy Wahito: Good evening to you. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Njiru): Welcome to this session. Lucy, you have sworn an affidavit dated the 8th of March, 2024.

Ms. Lucy Wahito: Yes.

Ms. Lucy Wahito: Sorry?

Two more witnesses apart from Lucy?

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Yes, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

Ms. Lucy Wahito: Yes.

Services, Senate. receiving the money? Did you call him immediately, or were you perplexed that you received the money?

Ms. Lucy Wahito: I received the money at 21:24 and at that time I could not do anything. However, the following day on Monday morning, I called His Excellency, Hon. (Dr.) Robert Moda, I inquired what the money was supposed to be for, and he reminded me of the conversation that we had earlier on in regard to the case that he wanted to be considered in the company of assisting one Mr. Dennis Misati.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Njiru): Is this the conversation you had with His Excellency, hon. (Dr.) Robert Monda, in his office, when he summoned you?

Ms. Lucy Wahito: When he summoned me, he told me other details would follow later.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Njiru): So, what does it mean by, ‘other details will follow later’, to you?

Ms. Lucy Wahito: When I got the money, I connected the dots and I thought maybe that was what he meant, “Other details will follow later.”

So, when we talked that morning, I told him that if the young man is qualified, he shall be considered. Therefore, there was no need to try to influence him. I told him to reverse back the money that he had sent to my phone.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Njiru): You told him to reverse back on the 29th morning, correct?

Ms. Lucy Wahito: Yes. It was on the 29th morning. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Njiru): In your experience, how long does it take to reverse a transaction?

Ms. Lucy Wahito: Often times, once you reverse, it will take about, it is about 24 hours.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Njiru): Did His Excellency, the deputy governor reverse the transaction?

Ms. Lucy Wahito: It was not reversed. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Njiru): On the 29th after you spoke to him.

Ms. Lucy Wahito Yes, it was not reversed on the 29th. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Njiru): What step did you take following his refusal to reverse the money?

Ms. Lucy Wahito: On the 30th I waited for him to reverse but when it did not happen on the 30th, at 4, I returned that money.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Njiru): Why did you take that span, from the 29th to the 30th to reverse the money? Please tell us why you reversed the money or returned the money to His Excellency the deputy governor on the 30th and not the 29th

Ms. Lucy Wahito: Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I did that because I expected that if it was erroneously sent, there would be a message that we are supposed to send to Safaricom No.456, and it is supposed to notify the sender immediately they initiate the

Ms. Lucy Wahito: Yes.

Ms. Lucy Wahito: Sorry?

Services, Senate.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Njiru): Now, do you recall what took place prior to shortlisting?

Ms. Lucy Wahito: Yes, before shortlisting, I recall I was summoned by His Excellency, the Deputy Governor, Hon. (Dr) Robert Monda. I visited his office. Out of the various discussions that we had in matters to do with water, he told me that he had an interest in one of the positions that we advertised in the newspaper for the Commercial Manager. He had a candidate of preference, and therefore he told me to consider that case.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Njiru): Did he also mention the name of the person whom he wanted your assistance on?

Ms. Lucy Wahito: Yes, he mentioned the name, the candidate being Mr. Dennis Misati.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Njiru): Did you discuss anything else in that meeting where you were summoned?

Ms. Lucy Wahito: It was a brief discussion. He told me about other matters that we shall be able to discuss later.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Njiru): Now, following the shortlisting, when did you conduct your interviews?

Ms. Lucy Wahito: Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the adverts were done on 14th April. The applications were supposed to be closed on 28th April. After that, the board hired an independent consultant to do the shortlisting on behalf of the company.

The shortlisting was submitted on 15th May, 2023, and the candidates were invited on 17th May, 2023. The interviews were conducted on 25th and 26th May, 2023.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Njiru): After the 26th May, 2023, after the interviews, what happened on the 28th May, 2023, at 9:24 p.m?

Ms. Lucy Wahito: I recall on 28th May, 2023 that was on a Sunday at 9:24 p.m., and 13 seconds, I received Kshs100,000 in my M-pesa line, that 0724616288 from His Excellency, hon. (Dr.) Robert Monda.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Njiru): How did you know that the money was from hon. (Dr.) Monda?

Ms. Lucy Wahito: I have his number on my phone. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Njiru): Have you attached your M-pesa statement to that effect?

Ms. Lucy Wahito: Yes. I have attached. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Njiru): Hon. Members, I am referring the witness to page 277 of volume one of the County Assembly bundles. Are you there Ms. Lucy? Is this your M-Pesa Statement?

Ms. Lucy Wahito: Yes. This is my M-pesa statement. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Njiru): You received money from His Excellency, hon. (Dr.) Monda on the 30th. Is that correct?

Ms. Lucy Wahito: Yes.

Services, Senate. receiving the money? Did you call him immediately, or were you perplexed that you received the money?

Ms. Lucy Wahito: I received the money at 21:24 and at that time I could not do anything. However, the following day on Monday morning, I called His Excellency, Hon. (Dr.) Robert Moda, I inquired what the money was supposed to be for, and he reminded me of the conversation that we had earlier on in regard to the case that he wanted to be considered in the company of assisting one Mr. Dennis Misati.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Njiru): Is this the conversation you had with His Excellency, hon. (Dr.) Robert Monda, in his office, when he summoned you?

Ms. Lucy Wahito: When he summoned me, he told me other details would follow later.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Njiru): So, what does it mean by, ‘other details will follow later’, to you?

Ms. Lucy Wahito: When I got the money, I connected the dots and I thought maybe that was what he meant, “Other details will follow later.”

So, when we talked that morning, I told him that if the young man is qualified, he shall be considered. Therefore, there was no need to try to influence him. I told him to reverse back the money that he had sent to my phone.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Njiru): You told him to reverse back on the 29th morning, correct?

Ms. Lucy Wahito: Yes. It was on the 29th morning. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Njiru): In your experience, how long does it take to reverse a transaction?

Ms. Lucy Wahito: Often times, once you reverse, it will take about, it is about 24 hours.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Njiru): Did His Excellency, the deputy governor reverse the transaction?

Ms. Lucy Wahito: It was not reversed. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Njiru): On the 29th after you spoke to him.

Ms. Lucy Wahito Yes, it was not reversed on the 29th. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Njiru): What step did you take following his refusal to reverse the money?

Ms. Lucy Wahito: On the 30th I waited for him to reverse but when it did not happen on the 30th, at 4, I returned that money.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Njiru): Why did you take that span, from the 29th to the 30th to reverse the money? Please tell us why you reversed the money or returned the money to His Excellency the deputy governor on the 30th and not the 29th

Ms. Lucy Wahito: Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I did that because I expected that if it was erroneously sent, there would be a message that we are supposed to send to Safaricom No.456, and it is supposed to notify the sender immediately they initiate the

Kindly take note of your time. Considering the way the examination has gone, I believe you will deal with cross- examination within the time you have been allocated.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I will try my level best.

Your testimony is contained in the bundle that you have produced before this assembly. Hon. Members, I am referring to the affidavit at page 263-265, particularly page 264. Lucy, do you have it?

Services, Senate.

Ms. Lucy Wahito: Yes. My Fuliza is more like money in my account. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Njiru): Ms. Lucy, the deputy governor, largely speaks in his HANSARD at the County Assembly, at page 191 of the County Assembly bundle, paragraph 3. Kindly read the paragraph that begins with the word, “I confirm.

Ms. Lucy Wahito: Mr. Temporary Speaker, it reads- “I confirmed to have sent her the money mistakenly and told her that I intended to send money to a different person, Ms. Gladys Aming’a. She continued to tell me that she was at the airport, traveling to attend a meeting in Nairobi. She then inquired if it was possible for me to reverse the money. I told her I would try since I had never reversed money on an M-Pesa platform. I attempted, but I was not successful. I urge her to reverse it.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Njiru): Ms. Wahito, kindly stop there. The Deputy Governor says he attempted, correct?

Ms. Lucy Wahito: Yes.

Ms. Lucy Wahito: Yes.

Counsel Katwa. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Yes, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

Kindly take note of your time. Considering the way the examination has gone, I believe you will deal with cross- examination within the time you have been allocated.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I will try my level best.

Your testimony is contained in the bundle that you have produced before this assembly. Hon. Members, I am referring to the affidavit at page 263-265, particularly page 264. Lucy, do you have it?

Mr. Katwa, kindly guide Members on the volume you are making reference to.

Ms. Lucy Wahito: Yes.

Ms. Lucy Wahito: Yes.

Ms. Lucy Wahito: No.

Ms. Lucy Wahito: Yes.

This was a statement I had made that I swore an affidavit to state the facts.

Ms. Lucy Wahito: Yes.

Ms. Lucy Wahito: Yes.

Madam Lucy, I will guide you. Answer the question in the interest of time as when you have been asked. If you do not know the answer give a direct ‘No’ or ‘Yes’. We will not entertain arguments.

Ms. Lucy Wahito: Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Ms. Lucy, what I am saying is, you saw that the speaker took advantage of the point you made that he kept quiet and said the effect of that is that indeed he did not tell you that it had anything to do with employment. Did you see that in his defense at the county assembly?

Ms. Lucy Wahito: Yes, I saw. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You then went back and swore an affidavit on 8th March, after the impeachment decision of 29th.

Ms. Lucy Wahito: Yes, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: In the new affidavit, you have changed the content of the conversation with the governor. The content of your conversation with the governor on the 29th has changed.

Ms. Lucy Wahito: It did not change. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: On the 8th of March when you are swearing the affidavit did you say that he kept quiet?

Ms. Lucy Wahito: No.

Ms. Lucy Wahito: Yes.

Services, Senate. governor negatively on page 264 on the 8th of March or the one you said he kept quiet on the 8th of February?

Ms. Lucy Wahito: The sworn-in affidavit. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): You agree the statement that is on page 27 is yours?

Ms. Lucy Wahito: I agree. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Okay, let us now talk about the M-pesa you received. You said you received the M-pesa on the 28th. It is true that after you received the M-pesa you did not call him until the next day.

Ms. Lucy Wahito: Yes, it was late in the night. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): You did not call him the same day?

Ms. Lucy Wahito: Yes.

I saw it immediately. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Sorry.

Ms. Lucy Wahito: Sorry.

Mrs. Lucy Wahito: Yes.

I called him in the morning. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): What time?

Around 8.09 a.m. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): According to you, you suggest to him to reverse the amount.

Ms. Lucy Wahito: Exactly.

Ms. Lucy Wahito: Yes.

Mrs. Lucy Wahito: Yes.

Services, Senate.

Ms. Lucy Wahito: Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir. By 1048hrs, I had Kshs96, 404. At 1106hrs, I had Kshs101, 464.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Mrs. Lucy, again I will remind you I am the one asking you questions. It is also true that between 1528hrs and 1815hrs, your balance is less than Kshs100 ,000, is it?

Ms. Lucy Wahito: Come again? The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Between 1528hrs and 1815hrs, the balance in your account is less than Kshs100 ,000. Is it?

Mrs. Lucy Wahito: Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Now, you said the interviews were conducted on the 15th. Is it?

Ms. Lucy Wahito: The interviews were conducted on 25th May and 26th May

Ms. Lucy Wahito: Exactly.

Ms. Lucy Wahito: Yes.

Ms. Lucy Wahito: Yes.

Counsel, you have five minutes.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker.

In that scenario Ms. Lucy, the situation would be that if hon. (Dr.) Robert Monda actually wanted---

First, the board members are appointed by the Office of the governor, is it not?

Ms. Lucy Wahito: No.

Thank you, Counsel. Do we have any re-examination? Counsel, how many minutes do you need?

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Madam Temporary Speaker, I will need 10 minutes.

Ms. Lucy Wahito: Exactly.

Ms. Lucy Wahito: Yes.

Try and condense it. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Madam Temporary Speaker, I am Ms. Munyoki and I am going to re-examine the witness.

Madam Lucy, how many statements or affidavits did you make? Ms. Lucy Wahito: Madam Temporary Speaker, I made one affidavit and one statement.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Were you also summoned by EACC?

Ms. Lucy Wahito: Yes, I was summoned by EACC and I made an elaborate statement at the EACC.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: What did you submit at the EACC? Was it a statement or an affidavit?

Services, Senate.

Ms. Lucy Wahito: A statement at EACC. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Madam Temporary Speaker, we did not go into the issue of EACC. In your directions, for purposes of the hearing, you had said re-examination should limit itself to what was explored in the course of cross-examination.

Counsel, that objection is

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Ms. Anna Munyoki): Well guided. Could you please clarify on the issue of the statements and the affidavit?

Can you do the re-exam in five minutes? Can you condense it?

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: I will try.

Ms. Lucy Wahito: Yes.

Services, Senate.

Ms. Lucy Wahito: Madam Temporary Speaker, if you check, I withdrew Kshs30,000 from Cooperative Bank and Kshs5,000 from Equity Bank on 29th. Meaning, I was not spending the Kshs100,000 that had been sent to my phone.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Ms. Anna Munyoki): On the issue of the interviews, when was the interview?

Ms. Lucy Wahito: The interviews were done on 25th and 26th May, 2023. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Ms. Anna Munyoki): You said that you outsourced a party. Does the Board have an influence on--- What did you say is name of the agency?

Ms. Lucy Wahito: Alfred Consultancy. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Ms. Anna Munyoki): As the Board Members do you have direct control?

Ms. Lucy Wahito: The Board does not have control. That is among the list of the prequalified consultants in the company.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Ms. Anna Munyoki): Could you please explain to the House how the process happens from the shortlisting to the recruitment?

Madam Temporary Speaker, after the applications were submitted to the office of the Managing Director on 28th, it was closed and the consultant was given the database to go and look through from the long list and come up with a short list within a period of seven days. That is when they submitted the list to the Board of Directors on the 15th of May, 2023.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Ms. Anna Munyoki): At what point, did you communicate on the interviews?

Ms. Lucy Wahito: Madam Temporary Speaker, we communicated on the same dates of 15th to 17th. That is when we invited the candidates who had been shortlisted for the interviews. We gave them seven days’ notice.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Ms. Anna Munyoki): That is all, Madam Temporary Speaker.

Mr. Kelvin Michuki: I have one question, Hon. Temporary Speaker, with your indulgence.

Madam Lucy, was the deputy governor bribing for shortlisting or recruitment?

Counsel, that objection is

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Ms. Anna Munyoki): Well guided. Could you please clarify on the issue of the statements and the affidavit?

I believe that is all for this witness, except for the clarifications that the Senators would want to have. I have a whole

Ms. Lucy Wahito: Yes.

Services, Senate.

Ms. Lucy Wahito: Madam Temporary Speaker, if you check, I withdrew Kshs30,000 from Cooperative Bank and Kshs5,000 from Equity Bank on 29th. Meaning, I was not spending the Kshs100,000 that had been sent to my phone.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Ms. Anna Munyoki): On the issue of the interviews, when was the interview?

Ms. Lucy Wahito: The interviews were done on 25th and 26th May, 2023. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Ms. Anna Munyoki): You said that you outsourced a party. Does the Board have an influence on--- What did you say is name of the agency?

Ms. Lucy Wahito: Alfred Consultancy. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Ms. Anna Munyoki): As the Board Members do you have direct control?

Ms. Lucy Wahito: The Board does not have control. That is among the list of the prequalified consultants in the company.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Ms. Anna Munyoki): Could you please explain to the House how the process happens from the shortlisting to the recruitment?

Madam Temporary Speaker, after the applications were submitted to the office of the Managing Director on 28th, it was closed and the consultant was given the database to go and look through from the long list and come up with a short list within a period of seven days. That is when they submitted the list to the Board of Directors on the 15th of May, 2023.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Ms. Anna Munyoki): At what point, did you communicate on the interviews?

Ms. Lucy Wahito: Madam Temporary Speaker, we communicated on the same dates of 15th to 17th. That is when we invited the candidates who had been shortlisted for the interviews. We gave them seven days’ notice.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Ms. Anna Munyoki): That is all, Madam Temporary Speaker.

Mr. Kelvin Michuki: I have one question, Hon. Temporary Speaker, with your indulgence.

Madam Lucy, was the deputy governor bribing for shortlisting or recruitment?

Sen. Betty Montet, please proceed.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I would like Madam Lucy, to tell this House, what was the gross salary the successful applicant of this job which was being facilitated expected to get.

Ms. Lucy Wahito: Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. The gross salary for that position, being Grade Two in the grading structure of the company, has a gross salary of about Kshs200,000.

Services, Senate. list of about 12 Senators who are interested in interventions. I will try and balance both sides, but we could do fewer than the 13.

Senator Seki, please proceed.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. To the witness, I will just go directly to the point. How can you relate the 15th and the 25th dates that you indicated that the interviews were done? How can you explain these two dates that are coming in your Statements and the presentation from the legal counsel?

Ms. Lucy Wahito: Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. 15th is when Altrade Consultants submitted the report, and in the shortlisting at the bottom, the date of 15th is written as 15th May 2023. That is where it caused some confusion because it is already on the list of shortlisted candidates. It is the day that we received the report from the consultants.

Services, Senate. officio in this case are the County Executive Committee Members (CECMs), Water and Finance for both counties. That is, Nyamira and Kisii Counties.

Meaning that we have two from each and every county, sitting as Board Members of the company.

Sen. Crystal Asige.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. To the witness, my questions are as follows-

When was the meeting that you mentioned you had with the Deputy Governor, where he proposed supporting is preferred candidate? When were the successful candidates informed in this recruitment process?

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor mentioned that there might have been an attempt to reverse, is there any evidence of the Deputy Governor’s reversal from Safaricom?

He also made a point to direct Senators to the 8th February statement by the witness where she spoke of a silence that was heard on the phone. How should hon. Senators interpret the silence as being, noting what silence means in a court of law?

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor spoke of there being an error, I want them to kindly let us know the phone numbers for Lucy and Gladys in order to see how close those two numbers were.

Sen. Crystal Asige, you are overloading that witness with a raft of questions. If you could let her answer, then it would be reasonable.

Ms. Lucy Wahito: Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. On question one on when we had the conversation with the deputy governor, it was after 28th, the following week, on Thursday around 4th May, 2023.

The second question, on when the communication to the candidates who were successful was supposed to be done, we did that communication on 2nd June, 2023.

Services, Senate. officio in this case are the County Executive Committee Members (CECMs), Water and Finance for both counties. That is, Nyamira and Kisii Counties.

Meaning that we have two from each and every county, sitting as Board Members of the company.

Services, Senate.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I have brief questions. For how long have you known the Deputy Governor and how has your work relation been with him since you have been the Managing Director for the past one and half years in the institution where you work?

Secondly, in both your statement and affidavit, you have a keyword known as “approached”. When you say; “Robert Monda approached me saying---” How was the approach? Was it physical, a phone call or an email? How was the mode of the approach that you stated?

When you sent the money back to Dr. Monda, what was his response? When he approached you for a request of a candidate, what was your response to him?

Ms. Lucy Wahito: Madam Temporary Speaker, I have known His Excellency, Dr. Robert Monda, from the time they got into office. That is from August 2022.

Relation in the workplace has been a positive one because he is a stakeholder since county governments are shareholders. We have had good relations with the county government which he serves as the deputy governor. The relationship and the support that we have been receiving from the company shows that we have been having a good working relationship.

The third question is to do with the word “approach”. On 4th May,2023, it was a Thursday, he called and summoned me to his office at Gusii Stadium. When I went to his office, that is when he told me that he had an interest in one of the adverts he had seen in the Daily Nation Newspaper. I told him that if the candidate qualifies, he will get the job because it is purely based on merit and qualifications.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker.

Proceed, Sen. Wambua.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I have two quick questions. Madam Lucy, did you have any other cash transactions before you received M- pesa from his account? Secondly, when you called him on 29th about the money you received on 28th, did he tell you explicitly that the money was meant to influence your decision on the job in question?

Ms. Lucy Wahito: Madam Temporary Speaker, when I called the Deputy Governor on 29th, he asked me to remember the case he had told me about in terms of assisting his candidate to get a job as the commercial manager. I told him that there was no need to send money because the criteria is purely based on merit. I then asked him to reverse the money.

First question?

Ms. Lucy Wahito: Sorry?

Services, Senate.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I have brief questions. For how long have you known the Deputy Governor and how has your work relation been with him since you have been the Managing Director for the past one and half years in the institution where you work?

Secondly, in both your statement and affidavit, you have a keyword known as “approached”. When you say; “Robert Monda approached me saying---” How was the approach? Was it physical, a phone call or an email? How was the mode of the approach that you stated?

When you sent the money back to Dr. Monda, what was his response? When he approached you for a request of a candidate, what was your response to him?

Ms. Lucy Wahito: Madam Temporary Speaker, I have known His Excellency, Dr. Robert Monda, from the time they got into office. That is from August 2022.

Relation in the workplace has been a positive one because he is a stakeholder since county governments are shareholders. We have had good relations with the county government which he serves as the deputy governor. The relationship and the support that we have been receiving from the company shows that we have been having a good working relationship.

The third question is to do with the word “approach”. On 4th May,2023, it was a Thursday, he called and summoned me to his office at Gusii Stadium. When I went to his office, that is when he told me that he had an interest in one of the adverts he had seen in the Daily Nation Newspaper. I told him that if the candidate qualifies, he will get the job because it is purely based on merit and qualifications.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker.

Proceed, Sen. Wambua.

Services, Senate.

Ms. Lucy Wahito: Thank you, Temporary Madam Speaker. We have never had any cash transactions between me and the deputy governor. Not in cash, not in my Mpesa.

Senator Murgor, do you still want to raise any questions?

Ms. Lucy Wahito: Sorry?

Did you answer the first question?

Ms. Lucy Wahito: Sorry, Madam Temporary Speaker, maybe I did not get that.

Repeat it for her.

The first question was, did you have any cash transactions, any cash business between yourself, and the Deputy Governor before 28th when you received money through Mpesa from him?

Services, Senate.

Ms. Lucy Wahito: Thank you, Temporary Madam Speaker. We have never had any cash transactions between me and the deputy governor. Not in cash, not in my Mpesa.

Senator Murgor, do you still want to raise any questions?

Thank you very much, Madam Temporary Speaker. I have two questions for the witness. One is, what did you see in your message? Did you see Kshs.100, 000 or did you see a name with it such that you are comfortable overnight with the money and not uncomfortable such that you would seek as to who is the sender and probably send it back?

So, what made you comfortable to just have it with you overnight? Then my second question is, what influence do you have over the Board such that the deputy governor would seek your help to be able to help him position this applicant?

Ms. Lucy Wahito: Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. Question number one, in line with what influence, being a Board Member, I am the Managing Director of the Company. I would probably think that he felt that I could be able to influence because by virtue of the office that I hold as the Managing Director and I sit in the Board, he felt that maybe I could be able to influence. It is by virtue of the position that I hold.

Question number two: The comfort in which I stayed with the money at night, I clearly stated the money was sent to me at 2134 hrs. It was a Sunday night. This is my boss in the county. I would not have called him at that particular time. The following day was a Monday. That is why I called him during the official working hours.

Thank you.

Hon. Senators, we still have a list. I want to give an opportunity to Sen. Sifuna, but I request that if a question has already been answered, we do not repeat it because most likely you get the same answer.

Sen. Sifuna?

Madam Temporary Speaker, at the beginning of this proceeding, there were certain admissions that were made by the counsel for the deputy governor. Most important of which was that, yes, they accept money was received, but it was not for the purposes stated by the prosecution, but that it was for repayment of a debt.

Now, Senior Counsel Katwa Kigen, at page 189, where we have excerpts of the HANSARD of the proceedings before the County Assembly, is it not a fact that there was indeed another admission before the county assembly? You will see the question you put to him there.

Did you talk to Lucy about that request about your friend, Mr. Joseph Misati? Is it not a fact if the answer is to be believed that, in fact, this question of whether the deputy governor spoke to the Managing Director at GWASCO, on this request or not, has already been made?

Or is it your position, as you have stated before, that the HANSARD has been doctored?

I thank you.

Proceed.

Services, Senate.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Our position is that, no, we do not say that that part of the HANSARD has been doctored. We do not contest that. We do not contest that bit of the HANSARD. We are saying that the money was erroneously sent to Lucy, yet it was meant to be sent to Ms. Gladys.

We contest the position taken by Ms. Lucy, that she was summoned. It is our position that they met casually and, the deputy governor said in passing that, “a friend of mine's son has applied” and that Ms. Lucy, in response, said exactly what she has said now, that “if he qualifies well and good” and nothing beyond that casual comment.

The issue of being summoned is not true. The Deputy Governor will testify to that tomorrow.

Thank you, Counsel. Sen. Orwoba, you may proceed, and I will have to make a decision on whether we proceed, or---

Madam Temporary Speaker, I will be very brief. Thank you, Ms. Lucy, for keeping calm. I want to ask this question because there are some grey areas.

You are referencing that you did not make the phone call because it was 9.34 pm on a Sunday night. The assumption is that you do not speak to your bosses or anyone within work past certain hours.

So, my question is, have you never called the deputy governor past a certain hour in reference to any other issue other than this?

Ms. Lucy Wachira: Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. We have never spoken with His Excellency, the deputy governor, anytime beyond 5 pm. The few times that we have spoken with His Excellency, is during official hours and often morning hours. This would have been a different scenario if I had called him at night.

Sen. Osotsi, you may proceed, but do not repeat the questions, please.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. Ms. Lucy, this is the third time that you have appeared before the Senate. You have appeared before the CPIC Committee, which I chair as the Managing Director of GWASCO, and during those occasions, the Committee has given you a number of directives.

The first is on matters bordering on the fight against corruption. Secondly, it is matters bordering on the skill set and the competitive recruitment of staff in your company. Are your actions in this particular case motivated by the recommendations of the Committee to you?

Ms. Lucy Wahito: Madam Temporary Speaker, yes, I want to say that in the year 2021, the company had serious governance issues, and we were summoned to the Senate. We have been summoned twice.

Through the support of this Senate and the recommendations that he has been able to make, the company and the shareholders took that seriously and put in place the proper governance structures of the company. Through those structures, the company has made tremendous steps towards positive progress, improvements. The corporate image of the company has changed.

Counsel proceed. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. If you look at page 117B of the governor’s bundle, the error was not so much in terms of the number that was picked, but more of the names as saved by the Deputy Governor.

If you look at that page 117B, the deputy governor has saved the number of Ms. Lucy as “CEO GWASCO” and for Gladys as “CEO Health, Gladys Aming’a”. The mistake was therefore in the choice of the person he picked when he was sending the money.

Sen. Chute, you take under one minute to ask a question and then maybe, at 9:10, we move on to the next.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. This House is a House of records and facts. Ms. Lucy, on a Statement of 8th February 2024, indicated very clearly that she--- let me read just this part -

After receiving applications from interested persons, the board shortlisted candidates for the post of commercial manager and invited them for interviews on 15th May, 2023. She went on to give time to people like Mr. Boyani Ongera 10.00 a.m. and Mercy Vati, 10.30 a.m.

Madam Temporary Speaker, what I do not understand this: In her witness statement, she says she invited these people on the 15th. She went on and said that they were supposed to come on the 25th and 26th. I want some clarification on that.

I also want to know if she could agree with me that she lied in her statement which she wrote on the 8th February, 2024 and the same on the affidavit dated 8th March,

Ms. Lucy can you tackle that quickly?

Ms. Lucy Wahito: Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I did not lie. It is only that the statement was not made under the Commissioner of Oaths. That is why I clarified by saying that I stick with my affidavit that I swore.

Proceed Sen. Omogeni

This is to my learned friend and senior, Mr. Kato. At page 26 the money was sent by error to the number 0724616288 that is to Lucy Wahito. At E7, the money was meant to be sent to Gladys Aming’a. Could you kindly supply us with the mobile number for Gladys Aming’a?

Counsel proceed. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. If you look at page 117B of the governor’s bundle, the error was not so much in terms of the number that was picked, but more of the names as saved by the Deputy Governor.

If you look at that page 117B, the deputy governor has saved the number of Ms. Lucy as “CEO GWASCO” and for Gladys as “CEO Health, Gladys Aming’a”. The mistake was therefore in the choice of the person he picked when he was sending the money.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I will be brief. Madam Lucy, I want a clarification from you. By the time you advertised for this position, were you aware that there was a court order which had declared that position null and void and they had advised that you stop the recruitment process.

I also want you to tell me this hon. House if it is true that around the same time, the salary of the Managing Director was indeed increased from Kshs133,000 to Kshs510,000. If it is true, what necessitated the increase for this position?

Ms. Lucy Wahito: Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. The statements from the Senator are not true. No court case quashed the adverts that had been made on 14th

The Senator had sought about the mobile number. Or is that your response?

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: The number is in the M-Pesa transactions for Hon. Monda which is at page--- The number is actually on that page 117 but I know it is faint. Dr. Monda’s M-Pesa statement runs from page 105. If you could, allow us when we will be adducing evidence tomorrow to pick it out.

It is part of our defense to show how we paid Gladys Aming’a shortly after having mistakenly sent it. Kindly, allow us to do that because I cannot trace the number right away.

Senator, that is a response. Whether good or bad, you know what to do when the response does not meet your standard.

Sen. Beth Syengo, proceed. The final Senator will be Sen. Mbugua. Afterward, we will not allow more questions. The point of order will pend the finalization of the two senators' questions.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker, for this chance. My question goes to the Counsel for the Deputy Governor. It is in line with what the Senior Counsel has asked. How can the contact for Lucy, a name that starts with ‘L’ and Gladys a name that starts with ‘G’ be confused yet phone contacts appear alphabetically?

The question is directed to the Counsel.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Madam Temporary Speaker, on page 117B we have shown how he had saved the names in a serial order of CO-Gladys and CO-Lucy. The names of Lucy and Gladys are next to each other. This is the most we can do in terms of answering the question of how the mistake happened. This is the most I can say.

With your permission, I would like to answer the question by the Senior Counsel, Sen. Omogeni. The number of Gladys Aming’a is 0727455843.

Sen. Mbugua, proceed. This is the final question to this witness.

Sen. Chute, hold the point of order until we finalize. I have given directions. Wait.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I will be brief. Madam Lucy, I want a clarification from you. By the time you advertised for this position, were you aware that there was a court order which had declared that position null and void and they had advised that you stop the recruitment process.

I also want you to tell me this hon. House if it is true that around the same time, the salary of the Managing Director was indeed increased from Kshs133,000 to Kshs510,000. If it is true, what necessitated the increase for this position?

Ms. Lucy Wahito: Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. The statements from the Senator are not true. No court case quashed the adverts that had been made on 14th

Senators, I believe it is okay. That number is already in the documents. Counsel, I believe it may not be necessary to supply it. They have their bundles, so they can read through the evidence.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Exactly, on Page

How long are you going to take?

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: She will be brief and will take about 20 minutes.

Okay, proceed. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: She goes by the name Karen Magara.

Proceed.

I believe this is all for this witness. Counsel for the County Assembly, do you wish to call another witness, or have you dropped them?

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Yes, Madam Temporary Speaker. Also, permit me to supply the number of the witness who has just left, Lucy and this is for purposes of the benevolence from the County Assembly. The number is 0724 616288. It was sought and never supplied.

Madam Temporary Speaker, kindly allow us to call the next witness who goes by the ---

Lucy is the witness, I believe, who has just finished to testify.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: That is correct, Madam Temporary Speaker. Her number is 07246---

Senators, I believe it is okay. That number is already in the documents. Counsel, I believe it may not be necessary to supply it. They have their bundles, so they can read through the evidence.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Exactly, on Page

How long are you going to take?

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: She will be brief and will take about 20 minutes.

Okay, proceed. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: She goes by the name Karen Magara.

Proceed.

My name is Karen Magara. I am a nominated Member of County Assembly (MCA) in the Kisii County Assembly, representing special interests.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: So, being an MCA, you are aware and familiar with the issue at hand, right?

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: You are also the seconder in the Motion for Impeachment of the deputy governor, correct?

Yes, Madam Temporary Speaker. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Thank you. I want to lead you on two issues. One is on the issue of public participation, and then briefly on your interaction with the witnesses in this matter.

So, on public participation, did you witness how public participation was conducted in Kisii County?

15 minutes is even better. So, Counsel Katwa Kigen maybe you will match the 15 minutes if need be.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: My colleague intended to surrender the other minutes to me, but it is okay I can do 15 minutes.

was ushered into the Chamber)

You can do 15 minutes. Let us proceed.

(The Witness for the County Assembly,

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Good evening hon. Karen?

Good evening. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: For record purposes, kindly repeat your name, tell us what you do for a living and where you come from.

My name is Karen Magara. I am a nominated Member of County Assembly (MCA) in the Kisii County Assembly, representing special interests.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: So, being an MCA, you are aware and familiar with the issue at hand, right?

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: You are also the seconder in the Motion for Impeachment of the deputy governor, correct?

Yes, Madam Temporary Speaker. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Thank you. I want to lead you on two issues. One is on the issue of public participation, and then briefly on your interaction with the witnesses in this matter.

So, on public participation, did you witness how public participation was conducted in Kisii County?

Services, Senate.

Madam Temporary Speaker, being a special elect, I had an opportunity not only to go to one ward, but to just do a sampling kind of exercise during the public participation. Indeed, it was a demonstration that so many issues came up in that public participation. So, I did witness the public participation.

The public participation had various forms of giving their views. One was by participation in a group. Others opted to take secret recording because they felt some of their issues were personal. Some wrote a memorandum to the Assembly through the Clerk. This was being done on the 26th, which was on a Monday.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Thank you. You have heard the defence counsel allege that some of those videos were cooked and that they were never recorded at the venue of the public participation. What would you say about that?

Madam Temporary Speaker, I want to emphasise the point that when the public participation is being done, it may not necessarily find one person in the ward.

Remember, we have different divisions. Public participation can be in Tabaka Ward, but the person from Tabaka Ward could be working in Nyamarambe Ward, for example, which is in Bogetenga Ward. Where they were found, was where they were giving their views. It was not restrained to the ward that they come from.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Thank you. The videos that were played today, did you have an occasion to witness any of those recordings being taken?

Some of them, yes, I did, Madam Temporary Speaker. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Can you point us to one of them that you had the occasion of being present when it was recorded.

One that was very touching was when I witnessed an old Mzee talk about being told to sell 14 acres of land. They had a transaction with His Excellency the Deputy Governor. Midway, the transaction did not end well, and then the Deputy Governor was asking for a refund.

Another one was a woman, who clearly demonstrated that she is selling mutura. She was asking, if she is selling mutura and trying to educate her children, and when they go through school, then the leaders will ask her to raise the Kshs800,00. Where will she raise it from? That touched me.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: You have also heard an allegation tabled by the defence team that the governor was involved through the use of subcounty admin and ward admin in the public participation process. What would your answer be?

Services, Senate.

Services, Senate.

This particular public participation originated from the Assembly. There is no way that the Executive could have been allowed to carry out this public participation. So, it is not true.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): In instances where the event was to take place at the subcounty headquarters, is it not natural that the subcounty administration would usher in the guest? Is that the position?

Yes. They could usher in because mostly, when it is done in the headquarters, sometimes they are told to arrange for the public participation. The arrangement include bringing the chairs and allowing us to use the facility. Then when the public participation ends, after they have organised where the public participation is, if it is for the Assembly, their engagement ends there.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Thank you. To my last limp of this questioning, did you have an opportunity to interact with the allegations in the Notice of Motion for Impeachment and conduct your own investigations on the allegations? If so, what was the nature of your interaction?

Yes, Madam Temporary Speaker, I had an opportunity to engage and do my own investigations. That was after Hon. Siocha requested me to second the Motion.

Since I represent special interest groups, I voluntarily decided to, first of all, familiarise myself with the issues. I wanted to know whether what they were saying was correct. So, I went ahead and requested for the number of Dennis from Hon. Siocha. I then requested him to be in the company of the wife because I did not want to talk to Dennis alone.

They made arrangements and we met in town. They took me through the process of how they struggled to raise the money. What pained me is that the lady was expectant after struggling for 12 years. I am a woman and I know what women go through sometimes, particularly when you cannot conceive. The lady called Nyaboke sat and narrated how they even had to separate shortly with the husband because she could not contain whatever she was going through.

This gave me a motivation and I thought that being a woman representing the youth and Persons with Disabilities (PwDs) , I had to rise to the occasion. I decided to take it upon myself to second this Motion. Whatever Dennis and the wife went through, I am standing here as a woman painfully explaining.

A Member of County Assembly (MCA) earns Kshs86,000. I ask myself as an MCA who is struggling to take her children to school, how long will I save to give a bribe of Kshs800,000, if somebody asked me to give them that money? That touched me.

When I was contributing to this Motion in the House, I said that I do not want to talk about the law, but speak to the morals. Where is our society now? I earn Kshs86,000 but somebody tells me to give them Kshs800,000. Where will I get it? That pained me.

I voluntarily promised to walk with them this journey, that justice must be served to Nyaboke and Dennis. That is my conviction and that is why I stand in this Senate patiently wanting to convince---

On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker.

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Thank you. Madam Temporary Speaker, that will be all for this witness.

Counsel Kigen, please, proceed.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: My colleague, Mr. Ochoki, will do the cross-examination.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Thank you, for the opportunity, Madam Temporary Speaker.

Hon. Karen, I would like to clarify a few things from you, and I will start with whether you are aware of the advertisement that was made by the County Assembly, which is at Page 22 of Vol. I of the County Assembly's documents. Are you aware of that? Did you see the newspaper adverts in The Standard of February 24th, 2024?

Which page? The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Page 22.

Yes.

I am ruling on the first point of order, but I have not finished. Counsel, I request you to guide the witness, so that we make the process seamless. You should confine the witnesses to the documents that have been produced before the Senate.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker, for the guidance. I am actually on my last question on the issue. I just allowed the witness to give a true account of her own investigations and why she had to support the Motion for Impeachment.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Hon. Witness, were the four allegations against the Deputy Governor of Kisii County substantiated to warrant an impeachment? That would be my last question.

Yes, they were substantiated.

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Thank you. Madam Temporary Speaker, that will be all for this witness.

Counsel Kigen, please, proceed.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: My colleague, Mr. Ochoki, will do the cross-examination.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Thank you, for the opportunity, Madam Temporary Speaker.

Hon. Karen, I would like to clarify a few things from you, and I will start with whether you are aware of the advertisement that was made by the County Assembly, which is at Page 22 of Vol. I of the County Assembly's documents. Are you aware of that? Did you see the newspaper adverts in The Standard of February 24th, 2024?

Which page? The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Page 22.

Yes.

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Okay. In your contribution at the County Assembly, is there any mention of public participation, except for reference that you met Dennis and his wife?

I did not speak about it, but the report had already been submitted to the Clerk.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: The question is; did you make reference to public participation?

I did because one of the participation I did was to see Dennis.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: However, the participation that you talk about having gone everywhere is not in your contribution in the County Assembly. Is that correct?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Thank you. Why did you not bring out or raise that contribution in the County Assembly?

Yes, I did. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Which ones did you visit?

I went to Tabaka, where there was a public participation. There was another one in Nyamarambe and another one in Kitutu.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Okay. You passionately raised the issue of public participation. Let me refer you to your contribution in the House on 29th of February, this year.

Hon. Madam Temporary Speaker, the same can be found on page--- As I get it, in your contribution in the House, at Page 158 of Vol.I of the County Assembly’s documents, your emotional participation and your contribution runs from Page 158 to 160 of that County Assembly Volume.

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Okay. In your contribution at the County Assembly, is there any mention of public participation, except for reference that you met Dennis and his wife?

I did not speak about it, but the report had already been submitted to the Clerk.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: The question is; did you make reference to public participation?

I did because one of the participation I did was to see Dennis.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: However, the participation that you talk about having gone everywhere is not in your contribution in the County Assembly. Is that correct?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Thank you. Why did you not bring out or raise that contribution in the County Assembly?

Yes. Madam Temporary Speaker, the salon was sold sometime in April.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Are you aware that as at the time when the salon was sold, Dennis had not applied for the job?

I have not reconciled the two. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You have told the House that Dennis’s wife had 12 years of unsuccessful trials to get pregnant?

For the second born, Madam Temporary Speaker. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Have you brought to the Senate any medical document of that problem?

Ms. Karen Magara: No.

I invited them to come to Kisii Town. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You talk of them having made a payment to the Deputy Governor?

Yes, Madam Temporary Speaker. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: That is what they told you?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Did they tell you when they sold the salon that you very passionately refer to in your affidavit and statement?

Yes. Madam Temporary Speaker, the salon was sold sometime in April.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Are you aware that as at the time when the salon was sold, Dennis had not applied for the job?

Services, Senate.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Wilkins Ochoki): Why were you taking this photo?

This was for my own record and there is no law that stops me from that.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Madam Temporary Speaker, I am referring the witness to Page 158 –161 of the DG’s bundle.

Please, confirm that those other documents annexed thereto are votes and IDs of other Members of the County Assembly.

Ms. Karen Magara: No.

No. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Let me refer you to the voting. Madam Temporary Speaker, please, allow me refer the witness to Page 158 of the documents titled DG. Take a look at that.

In that Page 158, confirm that particular document is your vote at the County Assembly and alongside it, is your staff ID?

Yes, it is mine. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Is it correct that this photo was sent to the real sponsor of the Motion to impeach the Deputy Governor in order to confirm that, indeed, you voted to impeach the Deputy Governor?

No, it is not true.

Not true. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: What is your explanation for the other Members that also took photos alongside their votes?

Madam Temporary Speaker, I am not able to answer for other Members. I can only answer for my vote and photo.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Does the Deputy Governor have a kitty for bursaries?

No. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Are you aware of the provisions of the Kisii County Bursary Act, 2014?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Does the Deputy Governor have any influence with regard to who is awarded bursaries?

No. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Why then would you rely on public participation? Ordinarily, just for the record, are you aware of anyone that has been given a bursary of more than Kshs5,000 in Kisii County?

Yes.

Not true. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: What is your explanation for the other Members that also took photos alongside their votes?

Madam Temporary Speaker, I am not able to answer for other Members. I can only answer for my vote and photo.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Does the Deputy Governor have a kitty for bursaries?

No. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Are you aware of the provisions of the Kisii County Bursary Act, 2014?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Does the Deputy Governor have any influence with regard to who is awarded bursaries?

No. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Why then would you rely on public participation? Ordinarily, just for the record, are you aware of anyone that has been given a bursary of more than Kshs5,000 in Kisii County?

Yes.

They should be able to sort out small issues. That is why they are leaders.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Let me just ask you, so that you just say ‘yes’ or ‘no.’ Are you aware that there was a disagreement about how the Governor runs the county from his home at Motonto?

Not true. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Are you aware of the alterations in the budget?

Not true, I sit in the budget committee. Not true. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Are you aware that the Ethics and Anti-Corruption Commission

(EACC)

is investigating alterations made on the budget?

Yes, I know there is a letter from the Controller of Budget (CoB) , but these are just concerns that come from CoB, which is normal.

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You will agree with me that most of the people that do not agree with the Governor are either interdicted, sacked or impeached, like the Deputy Governor. Is that correct?

That is not correct, Madam Temporary Speaker. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: To the best of your knowledge, there a lot of disputes with regard to governance. Are you aware that the Deputy Governor had disagreed with the Governor on small issues about governance?

They should be able to sort out small issues. That is why they are leaders.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Let me just ask you, so that you just say ‘yes’ or ‘no.’ Are you aware that there was a disagreement about how the Governor runs the county from his home at Motonto?

Not true. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Are you aware of the alterations in the budget?

Not true, I sit in the budget committee. Not true. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Are you aware that the Ethics and Anti-Corruption Commission

(EACC)

is investigating alterations made on the budget?

Yes, I know there is a letter from the Controller of Budget (CoB) , but these are just concerns that come from CoB, which is normal.

The 24 pages? The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Yes.

Madam Temporary Speaker, somebody has signed. There is a ‘received’ and a signature.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: So somebody has signed that they have received the Report?

Counsel Katwa Kigen, you are winding down your five minutes.The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Yes, I will be very brief, Madam Temporary Speaker. Good evening, Madam Karen?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Could you confirm that Page 24-51 is that public participation report?

Services, Senate.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Very well. Number two, from Page 24 to 51, there is no reference anywhere to any video. True?

Counsel Kigen, that should be your final question. Wind up on that question. Let her answer you. Time is up.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: I just have one more question after this one, Madam Temporary Speaker.

There is no reference to a video. True?

No reference, Madam Temporary Speaker. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: I would like to take you to Page 103. That will be my last question. Page 103 of that bundle. You got it?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Okay. I want you to read the last paragraph. Does it say this, ‘Hon. Henry Moracha, Leader of the Majority, rose on Standing Order No.93 and sought an adjournment for purposes of public participation?’ Can you see that?

Yes, Madam Temporary Speaker. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: That is correct?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Can you confirm that when you adjourned for purposes of going for public participation, you did not provide funds to do this public participation? Can you confirm that?

Do you want me to explain because I cannot say ‘yes’ or ‘no.’

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Explain. I just want you to say---

Services, Senate.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Very well. Number two, from Page 24 to 51, there is no reference anywhere to any video. True?

Counsel Kigen, that should be your final question. Wind up on that question. Let her answer you. Time is up.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: I just have one more question after this one, Madam Temporary Speaker.

There is no reference to a video. True?

No reference, Madam Temporary Speaker. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: I would like to take you to Page 103. That will be my last question. Page 103 of that bundle. You got it?

Services, Senate.

Sorry? The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Who conducted and compiled the public participation report?

This public participation was done by the Communications Department from the Assembly. They are the people who did the compliment.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Lastly, you have been accused of taking a picture and sending it to the sponsor of this Motion. Why did you take a photo of your vote?

Madam Temporary Speaker, it is not true and I was not under any instructions to send my photo. This is for my own reference.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Do you know the source of that photo? If you took it from your phone, how did it end up at the Senate?

I cannot say, but it is in my phone, Madam Temporary Speaker. I do not know how it came out. It was not a secret.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Lastly, is it unusual for MCAs to be lobbied and whipped to support a particular Motion in the County Assembly? Is it unusual?

It is very normal for a County Assembly, just like what happens in the Senate. Sometimes when the Government has a specific Motion or policy in the House, the Majority Leader is expected to lobby. So, it is normal to lobby.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Thank you very much. Mr. Mwangi seems to have one question.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Just two questions, Madam Temporary Speaker. Hon. Karen, was this the first time the Assembly was conducting public participation?

No, Madam Temporary Speaker. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Have you done it before?

Services, Senate.

Sorry? The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Who conducted and compiled the public participation report?

This public participation was done by the Communications Department from the Assembly. They are the people who did the compliment.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Lastly, you have been accused of taking a picture and sending it to the sponsor of this Motion. Why did you take a photo of your vote?

Madam Temporary Speaker, it is not true and I was not under any instructions to send my photo. This is for my own reference.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Do you know the source of that photo? If you took it from your phone, how did it end up at the Senate?

I cannot say, but it is in my phone, Madam Temporary Speaker. I do not know how it came out. It was not a secret.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Lastly, is it unusual for MCAs to be lobbied and whipped to support a particular Motion in the County Assembly? Is it unusual?

Services, Senate.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Mwangi Ndegwa): That is all.

I see two requests. Sen. Chute, have you requested to speak?

Yes, Madam Temporary Speaker, Sir,

Then you can proceed.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. It seems like we are in a Papa Shirandula episode here and, I wanted to ask the witness, on Page 36 of Volume I, on Masimba Ward. Were there no members of the public who were at the venue when the secretariat arrived? What can she say about that?

The second question is, how many people of those who participated were in support of the Deputy Governor or who were against the Deputy Governor? That is why public participation is required. Can she explain to us?

Madam Temporary Speaker, in the Masimba Ward Report, it is indicated that there were no members. When it is not properly advertised, public participation becomes an issue because you will realise that not many people read newspapers.

So, sometimes it is possible that the people of Masimba Ward did not get to see the advert in the newspaper because we were not doing local advertisements from local stations. It was the newspaper that was being used. So, I am assuming that it could have been possible, but most people were not able to reach out to this advert.

On the second question of how many were for the Deputy Governor and how many were for impeachment. I will say that the majority, about 80 per cent, were for the impeachment and 20 per cent were, of course, in defence of the Deputy Governor.

Sen. Karungo Thang’wa?

Services, Senate.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Mwangi Ndegwa): That is all.

I see two requests. Sen. Chute, have you requested to speak?

Services, Senate.

Question number two, about the land balance of the Deputy Governor---

On the land question, maybe a different person will be better placed to answer it.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker.

Senator, that could be directed to a different person such as the counsel. Counsel, kindly respond to the second question as opposed to the witness responding to it.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I will draw the attention of the Senate to Page 284 of the bundle of documents by the county assembly. I confirm that the affidavit speaks about a situation of going concern. It speaks about an anticipated event.

If you look at the agreement, it is true it was done in July, 2022. The elections were to be conducted on 9th August, 2022. The agreement was that if he was to be successful then, he would employ six children for him, subsequent to which he would give him a set-off of Kshs300,000.

This is to confirm the impropriety and state of mind of the Deputy Governor; that he came to the county government with a purpose to enrich himself.

Most obliged.

That is the end of this witness’s evidence. We can now proceed to the next. How many more witnesses do you have? I believe it is one.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. We wish to announce that we have our last witness for today. His name is Mr. Rueben Monda.

How long is he going to take? The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Madam Temporary Speaker, at most 20 minutes.

Try and squeeze it to 15 minutes, if you can. Counsel Katwa, how long will you take cross-examining this witness?

Mr. Katwa Kigen: Madam Temporary Speaker, we shall try in about 10 minutes.

Services, Senate.

Question number two, about the land balance of the Deputy Governor---

On the land question, maybe a different person will be better placed to answer it.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker.

Services, Senate. Parliament to take medication. He also adds that the Senate summoned another witness, whom he wants to avail---

Sen. Omogeni, I heard him very well and I understood.

Maybe, we can get clarification if he has any witness outside waiting or we are---

Mr. Reuben Monda is out taking his medication, but there is one more witness who was summoned by the Senate. I was proposing that we take him---

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Madam Temporary Speaker, he has walked in.

He is here? Who is this now? Is this Mr. Robert Monda?

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Madam Temporary Speaker, this is Mr. Reuben Monda.

Okay, we can proceed with Reuben Monda. He could take a seat if he is not able to stand.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. If I heard counsel correctly, he says he had lined up Mr. Reuben Monda, but he seems to have left

Services, Senate.

Mr. Reuben Monda: Yes.

Mr. Reuben Monda: Yes.

Maybe, we can get clarification if he has any witness outside waiting or we are---

Mr. Reuben Monda: Yes.

Mr. Reuben Monda: Yes.

He is here? Who is this now? Is this Mr. Robert Monda?

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Madam Temporary Speaker, this is Mr. Reuben Monda.

Services, Senate.

Mr. Reuben Monda: Madam Temporary Speaker, they come on duty in a green uniform every day.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Njiru): It is your statement, therefore, that the enforcement officers do odd jobs for and on behalf of the Deputy Governor.

Mr. Reuben Monda: Yes, Madam Temporary Speaker. They do that. I am an eye witness.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Njiru): Would you describe the kind of the jobs they undertake? Other than feeding the dairy cows and digging wells, is anything else that they do?

Mr. Reuben Monda: Yes, Madam Temporary Speaker. There are some who do the lawn mowing and those who dig. In fact, they deepened an existing well for our brother when I was sick.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Njiru): Look at paragraph six again of your affidavits, but before we do that, you have said that, “But they also spent the night in one of our father's old house.”

Mr. Reuben Monda: Yes, Madam Temporary Speaker. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Njiru): Who are these who spent the night there?

Mr. Reuben Monda: The security guards who come during the night. Once they finish, all of us report into the compound, they go and sleep in that house.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Njiru): Paragraph six of your affidavit, Mr. Reuben, states-

“My brother, the Deputy Governor of Kisii County has made it his business to ensure that our home is an extension of the county, wherein, he dictates and in misuse of the county officers, has his way. Since he came into office, there has been at least five working in his farm, clear demonstration of the Deputy Governor is misusing the staff of the county.”

Do you confirm that he does misuse them?

Services, Senate.

Mr. Reuben Monda: Yes.

Mr. Reuben Monda: Yes.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Njiru): Please, do.

Mr. Reuben Monda: Yes.

Mr. Reuben Monda: Yes.

Services, Senate.

Mr. Reuben Monda: Madam Temporary Speaker, they come on duty in a green uniform every day.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Njiru): It is your statement, therefore, that the enforcement officers do odd jobs for and on behalf of the Deputy Governor.

Mr. Reuben Monda: Yes, Madam Temporary Speaker. They do that. I am an eye witness.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Njiru): Would you describe the kind of the jobs they undertake? Other than feeding the dairy cows and digging wells, is anything else that they do?

Mr. Reuben Monda: Yes, Madam Temporary Speaker. There are some who do the lawn mowing and those who dig. In fact, they deepened an existing well for our brother when I was sick.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Njiru): Look at paragraph six again of your affidavits, but before we do that, you have said that, “But they also spent the night in one of our father's old house.”

Mr. Reuben Monda: Yes, Madam Temporary Speaker. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Njiru): Who are these who spent the night there?

Mr. Reuben Monda: The security guards who come during the night. Once they finish, all of us report into the compound, they go and sleep in that house.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Njiru): Paragraph six of your affidavit, Mr. Reuben, states-

“My brother, the Deputy Governor of Kisii County has made it his business to ensure that our home is an extension of the county, wherein, he dictates and in misuse of the county officers, has his way. Since he came into office, there has been at least five working in his farm, clear demonstration of the Deputy Governor is misusing the staff of the county.”

Do you confirm that he does misuse them?

Yes, Madam Temporary Speaker. I confirm and I can give explanation how it happens.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Njiru): Please do.

For example, on the 20th December, 2023, my brother, without me knowing, because I was fixing some timber where I wanted to plant some more trees, his wife came to where the fundis were splitting the timber, and told them that I had cut their trees.

Counsel, your time is up. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: This is the last question. If he is stripped of all these powers, will you continue to have the harassment coming from the enforcement mechanisms of the County?

Mr. Reuben Monda: It is my hope and prayer that he will not continue doing it. That is why I came here.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: You said there was a video that was recorded, right?

Mr. Reuben Monda: Yes.

Counsel, how many more minutes do you need?

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Only three minutes, Madam Temporary Speaker.

Who took these videos and the photos? Mr. Reuben Monda: My brother came with the media. They are the ones who took that and they even broadcasted what transpired on the local television stations in Kisii.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Where is that place and what is happening?

Counsel, you have five minutes.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: I am just about to be done.

Mr. Reuben Monda: What happened was that I was harassed very badly by the askaris. I was taken to Keumbu, and at Keumbu, I was not given an OB number. I was not booked. After three hours, I was taken to Kisii by the askaris from Keumbu because it looks like there were some orders that were coming from Kisii Central Police Station that the Keumbu askaris to rush me to Kisii.

Is that all for this witness and examination-in-chief?

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Yes, Madam Temporary Speaker, that is all for the old man.

Does he need time before cross-examination? Is he able to take the questions in cross-examination?

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Madam Temporary Speaker, he says that he has one more issue that he wants to state. Granted his age, I pray that you grant him one more minute.

Mr. Reuben Monda: Madam Temporary Speaker, since that time, I fell sick and was brought to Nairobi Hospital, where I stayed for three weeks and spent a lot of money. I am now on injections. Right now, I have done three injections and I have 41/2. I have many drugs to take and I can see that my life is in danger.

That is why I decided to come because he has mistreated me many times. I forgave him, but this time round, I said I must come on my own volition

Thank you, hon. Senators. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. Reuben Monda, you will be asked questions by the Counsel for the Deputy Governor---

Services, Senate.

Mr. Reuben Monda: I do not know him by name, but if I get him, I can--- The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Njiru): Is he one of the enforcement officers or a police officer?

Mr. Reuben Monda: That one is an enforcement officer. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Njiru): Is he from the County or from the national Government?

Mr. Reuben Monda: From the County security team. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Njiru): Where are the rest? You spoke about 20 of them. What happened to the rest?

Mr. Reuben Monda: Madam Temporary Speaker, the rest collected 61 pieces of timber from the shamba to a waiting lorry on the road, and they are the ones who offloaded the vehicle, which was carrying the timber when we arrived at Keumbu.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Njiru): Who ordered them to do so?

Mr. Reuben Monda: It is my brother, the Deputy Governor, who gave them instructions to do so.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Njiru): Do you think in your own opinion, if the Senate does impeach the Deputy Governor, you will get yourself free of this intimidation and harassments?

Counsel, your time is up. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: This is the last question. If he is stripped of all these powers, will you continue to have the harassment coming from the enforcement mechanisms of the County?

Mr. Reuben Monda: It is my hope and prayer that he will not continue doing it. That is why I came here.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: You said there was a video that was recorded, right?

Mr. Reuben Monda: Yes.

Counsel, how many more minutes do you need?

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Only three minutes, Madam Temporary Speaker.

Who took these videos and the photos? Mr. Reuben Monda: My brother came with the media. They are the ones who took that and they even broadcasted what transpired on the local television stations in Kisii.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Where is that place and what is happening?

You can have a word with him and explain to him that he will go through cross-examination now.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. Reuben Monda, I am sorry for the ordeal. God will comfort you, but we are on trial and facts must be found by the Senate. You will, therefore, be asked several questions by the opposing Counsel. I kindly request that you compose yourself.

Thank you.

Counsel, how many minutes?

Secretariat, can we have the translator back?

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Good evening, Mr. Reuben Monda.

Mr. Reuben Monda: Good evening to you. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: I will ask you a few questions before we get the interpreter. Your evidence is that since your brother became the Deputy Governor he has changed.

Mr. Reuben Monda: Yes, Madam Temporary Speaker. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: He has tasted power and changed?

Mr. Reuben Monda: Yes.

Mr. Reuben Monda: No.

Where did he fall sick? He said that he fell sick.

Mr. Reuben Monda: Yes.

Mr. Reuben Monda: Yes.

Thank you, Reuben. Counsel. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Yes, Madam Temporary Speaker.

You can have a word with him and explain to him that he will go through cross-examination now.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. Reuben Monda, I am sorry for the ordeal. God will comfort you, but we are on trial and facts must be found by the Senate. You will, therefore, be asked several questions by the opposing Counsel. I kindly request that you compose yourself.

Thank you.

Services, Senate.

The Interpreter (Mr. Duncan Aguga):According to Reuben, he says the land does not belong to the Deputy Governor and they are going to confirm it from their father.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): Proceed.

Pause the video. The Interpreter

:Reuben is saying that his brothers will confirm that the land and the trees belong to him. There is a piece of land owned by the Deputy Governor, but Reuben owns the land.

(A video clip was played)

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Proceed. We can stop there. The Interpreter

:Mr. Reuben confirms that he planted some trees for the Deputy Governor. On that same day, the trees he cut were his and not for the Deputy Governor.

Mr. Reuben Monda: Yes.

Mr. Reuben Monda: No.

Services, Senate.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): What previous position has he had?

Mr. Reuben Monda: Member of Parliament. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): Since which year?

Mr. Reuben Monda: 2007 to 2013. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): Did he change then?

Mr. Reuben Monda: No.

Mr. Reuben Monda: Yes.

Mr. Reuben Monda: Yes.

Mr. Reuben Monda, you will wait until you are asked questions. That is when you respond. Let us have the translator give us the translation of what has happened.

The Interpreter

: Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. My name is Duncan Aguga, a professional journalist from Kenya Broadcasting Corporation

(KBC)

, under Minto FM. I am ready for interpretation.

Please, replay that.

The Interpreter

:It is a narration by a reporter. He says the Deputy Governor Robert Monda is in conflict with his brother on the cutting of trees.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: We can proceed.

Counsel, I have guided you. Play it back then he is going to listen and translate the correct version of what is said in the video.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Madam Temporary Speaker, I hope this does not eat into our time.

Counsel, I have given direction. Just go back. The time will be taken care of.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: We can play the video?

The Interpreter

:The narrator says the Deputy Governor of Kisii County got himself into a conflict with his brother because of cutting trees.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Proceed.

Pause it. The Interpreter

: Mr. Reuben is having an argument with the Deputy Governor asking him whether the trees belong to him. He is saying he is the one who planted the trees.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Proceed.

Pause it. The Interpreter

:Mr. Ruben is arguing with his brother the Deputy Governor, he says that the Deputy Governor is claiming all the land from the road down and he is saying that they will know the truth today from their father.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Proceed.

Sen. Omogeni, I need your comment on that.

We always appreciate expert witnesses, like the one who is at the dock. I, however, agree with Sen. Orwoba that there some words that are missing in the translation. I would rather he gives us a direct translation other than what he thinks he has captured from the speech.

Mr. Reuben Monda: Yes

Expert witness, just repeat exactly what is said in the video clips without transposing your understanding. Do not transpose to your understanding.

So, we will play back and get to hear it. Make it shorter so that he is able to capture what needs to be understood.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Madam Temporary Speaker, we are done with this video. However, if you want us to play it back, we can do that.

Mr. Reuben Monda: Yes.

Counsel, you have five minutes

Mr. Reuben Monda: I felt very sick after the ordeal. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: On the same day while you were outside giving statements?

Mr. Reuben Monda: I said after one and a half weeks because--- The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: I will direct you to your affidavit. Maybe your counsel can show it to you? Do you have a copy? That is even better.

On paragraph nine, you say- “18.30 hours the OCS Keumbu denied me bail despite suffering from high blood pressure and diabetes, and I was transferred to Kisii Teaching and Referral Hospital”.

So, you fell ill at Keumbu Police Station according to the affidavit? Mr. Reuben Monda: Madam Temporary Speaker, I said I was sick but not as much as I was after one and a half weeks. I was using drugs; tablets only. I said that.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: If we are to believe you, this arrest did not cause you to be sick. You got sick a few weeks later.

Mr. Reuben Monda: I repeat, Madam Temporary Speaker. I am diabetic and I have hypertension, but I was not as sick before the ordeal. I came to realize that I became very sick when I started fighting only the sugar levels. However, the blood pressure had gone over 200 systolic.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: We can move on to the next issue. You are referred to a photo where you are shown someone in a brown--- Before I move on to the video clip, have you provided any medical documents to show that you went to Coptic Hospital and was admitted after this fact?

Mr. Reuben Monda: I have all the documents. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Do you have them before this House?

Mr. Reuben Monda: No, I do not have them before the House. If given time, I will be able to avail them.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: That is fine, you can avail them at another forum and not today. I will take you to the photo you were referred to. If the technical team can place that photo up; if they can highlight the name of that photo. The description of the photo is described as a still, having been taken out of a video, which I will play shortly. Is that possible for the technical team?

Pause it. The Interpreter

:Mr. Ruben is arguing with his brother the Deputy Governor, he says that the Deputy Governor is claiming all the land from the road down and he is saying that they will know the truth today from their father.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Proceed.

Counsel, you have to be more specific. Which photo are you referring to?

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: It is the same photo, the one they had put up. It is okay, we can proceed to the video referred to as RS001.

Services, Senate. day, Mr. Reuben was cutting down the trees on the boundary between him and his brother’s land.

Mr. Reuben Monda: Yes

Services, Senate.

Mr. Reuben Monda: Madam Temporary Speaker, this is the same day I was arrested. This is at the Keumbu Police Station, where I made this statement.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): You are sure of that fact?

Mr. Reuben Monda: Yes.

Mr. Reuben Monda: Yes.

Mr. Reuben Monda: Yes.

Mr. Reuben Monda: Three.

Mr. Reuben Monda: Yes.

Mr. Reuben Monda: Yes.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): On his property?

The land where we are living belongs to our father. None of us has been given a piece of land. None of us; even the land where we have planted the trees belongs to our father.

Mr. Reuben, you must try to answer the questions without proposing a visit to the Counsel.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker, for ---

Mr. Reuben Monda: Madam Temporary Speaker, what I meant is that I can show him where they are.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Were the cows there before he became the Deputy Governor or they came after with the County enforcement?

Mr. Reuben Monda: Sorry?

Your time is up. I will give you two minutes to finalize.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: The video is labeled, Whatsapp@134242. It is the next video, not this one.

You can pause the video. Mr. Reuben Monda, you said they were county enforcement officers during your arrest. The photo you have shown us originated from this. Can you identify those county officers you are referring to in the video, from which that still was pulled?

Mr. Reuben Monda: Madam Temporary Speaker, the photos he is showing here are the ones, when I was being rushed by the police to Kisii. None of the county officers went to Kisii apart from one who was in a brown shirt. There is another clip where there is one I saw and identified positively as one of the officers from security. The rest we are seeing are police officers.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Do you know the name of this police officer; this person you are identifying as a county enforcement officer?

Mr. Reuben Monda: I know him by appearance. I do not know him by name. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Was he wearing uniform from the county?

Mr. Reuben Monda: Let me answer. The person we are seeing in the clip is from the revenue department. The officers came with the security guards plus the revenue officers. The one we are seeing in the clip is a revenue officer.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Your story has changed from compliance to revenue officer.

Mr. Reuben Monda: I have not changed. They were county workers; they came about 20 of them.

Mr. Reuben Monda: Sorry?

Mr. Reuben Monda: Sorry?

Mr. Reuben Monda: Yes.

Mr. Reuben Monda: Three.

Mr. Reuben Monda: Yes.

Mr. Reuben Monda: Yes.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): On his property?

The land where we are living belongs to our father. None of us has been given a piece of land. None of us; even the land where we have planted the trees belongs to our father.

Services, Senate.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): So, those are four officers? Two during the day and two during the night. Yes?

Mr. Reuben Monda: I am saying, there are two during the day and two during the night. Those are the ones who are manning the gate, then we have two who are called gardeners.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): Yes, continue.

Services, Senate.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): The cows were there before or after he became the Deputy Governor?

Mr. Reuben Monda: The cows were there even before. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): Were they still being taken care of even before?

Mr. Reuben Monda: Sorry?

Mr. Reuben Monda: Sorry?

Mr. Reuben Monda: Yes.

Mr. Reuben Monda: Sorry?

I have indulged you. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Madam Temporary Speaker, this is the last question.

Make that your last question. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker.

Mr. Reuben Monda: There are those who man the gate. They come in pairs from morning to around 6.00 p.m. in the evening, and two during the night.

Services, Senate.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): So, those are four officers? Two during the day and two during the night. Yes?

Mr. Reuben Monda: I am saying, there are two during the day and two during the night. Those are the ones who are manning the gate, then we have two who are called gardeners.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): Yes, continue.

Mr. Reuben Monda: Yes.

Mr. Reuben Monda: Yes.

Thank you, Counsel. Your time is up.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I had sort indulgence with one question because that one was in the middle of being answered. It is a simple question and it is a ‘yes’ or ‘no’ question.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I seek your indulgence.

Services, Senate.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Wilkins Ochoki): I want you to just answer my question. My question is very simple. The trees that you cut down, were they on your side of the land that you have been given by your father or were they on the side of the land that the deputy governor has been farming?

Mr. Reuben Monda: I said the land belongs to our dad. It does not belong to me, neither does it not belong to my brother. We only showed one another you can be farming on this side and I would farm on this side. The land belongs to our dad.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Wilkins Ochoki): Were you cutting trees down from the side of the land where you farm?

Mr. Reuben Monda: We stopped farming, that is why I found the land idle and I planted the trees. We stopped farming a long time ago.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Wilkins Ochoki): That is all for this witness, Madam Temporary Speaker.

Mr. Reuben Monda: Yes.

Mr. Reuben Monda: Sorry?

Yes, Hon. Temporary Speaker.

Sen. Chute, proceed.

Mr. Reuben Monda: Yes.

Sen. Thangw’a, you may have the Floor.

Mr. Reuben Monda: Yes.

Mr. Reuben Monda: Yes.

Services, Senate.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Wilkins Ochoki): I want you to just answer my question. My question is very simple. The trees that you cut down, were they on your side of the land that you have been given by your father or were they on the side of the land that the deputy governor has been farming?

Mr. Reuben Monda: I said the land belongs to our dad. It does not belong to me, neither does it not belong to my brother. We only showed one another you can be farming on this side and I would farm on this side. The land belongs to our dad.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Wilkins Ochoki): Were you cutting trees down from the side of the land where you farm?

Mr. Reuben Monda: We stopped farming, that is why I found the land idle and I planted the trees. We stopped farming a long time ago.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Wilkins Ochoki): That is all for this witness, Madam Temporary Speaker.

Services, Senate.

Mr. Rueben, do you have a brother by the name Enock?

Mr. Reuben Monda: Yes.

Sen. Chute, proceed.

Thank you very much, Madam Temporary Speaker. I am saddened today. This honourable House is being turned into a family feud and disputes.

I would want to tell Mr. Rueben Monda that in African culture, we have a dispute resolution mechanism and that can be solved within the family.

I want to know if he has used that formula to at least bring this to the attention of the elders or to the Abagusii.

Two, did he report any complain to any authorities specifically, Independent Policing Oversight Authority (IPOA) ?

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. Mr. Reuben Monda: Madam Temporary Speaker, if we were to go that way, my brother, who is older than me, is the one who should have started with that. He went for the police instead. Even our father is alive, he could have gone to him, but he started with the police.

Since I have been very sick, I have not gotten time to take any action to prove that the arrest was meant to harass, belittle and blackmail me. That is why I fell sick. I will take legal action once I feel strong enough.

I thank you.

Sen. Thangw’a, you may have the Floor.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I do not know whether you will allow us to have the kind of conversational questions, just like the way the counsels are doing rather than just one long question. I want to interact with Mr. Reuben when I ask my very short questions.

Proceed to ask the question.

Sen. Okiya Omtatah, please, proceed.

Madam Temporary Speaker, what is coming out is that these people are like squatters on their father’s land. I have a problem of understanding the question of ownership when they are squatters.

How can we apportion ownership of the trees under the circumstances where one says they bought seedlings and planted them? One of them was supposed to buy seedlings and the other plant for him. However, they bought seedlings at Kshs6,000 planted, but they were never compensated, yet they are squatters on that land. So, who is the owner of the trees?

Mr. Reuben Monda: Yes.

Is he a supplier with the County Government of Kisii? Mr. Reuben Monda: I do not know about that.

Madam Temporary Speaker, the witness says that he wants his brother to be impeached and removed from office because he has changed since he was elected. If that wish is granted, do you think when he comes home, he will go back to his senses and become a better brother and you are going to live happily ever after?

Mr. Reuben Monda: Madam Temporary Speaker, I believe so because I think my brother became what he is because of the powers he is enjoying and misusing. He ended up misusing the powers and abusing his office. If he comes home, I believe he will change.

Services, Senate.

You stated earlier, when you were making your submissions, that the reason you are here is because your brother, the Deputy Governor, misused his office.

Mr. Reuben Monda: Yes.

Mine goes to the counsel for the Deputy Governor. On Page E8 of the DG bundle, Paragraph 43, the DG has alleged that the 65 pieces of timber, according to evidence produced, belong to him.

Has the Counsel presented evidence of ownership by a way of title deed for the land in dispute on where the trees were cut?

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Madam Temporary Speaker, from the evidence from the Deputy Governor and that of his brother, Mr. Rueben, this is communal property still under the title of the father, although, he has designated portions for each family members. That is why they have a communal homestead and several areas where they farm or plant.

I indicate, the father is still alive and he holds the title over the property.

Mr. Reuben Monda: Yes.

In the more than 60 years of your brotherhood, have you ever taken each other to court or has any of you caused an arrest of the other in the whole duration that God has kept you?

Mr. Reuben Monda: Madam Temporary Speaker, I have not gotten the first part of the question.

When you were making your submissions, you said the reason you are here today is because your brother misused his office by using his power. After you were released from the police station, did you file an official complaint of misuse of office by your brother? That is my first question.

Mr. Reuben Monda: Thank you, Senator. I would like to say this. I did not do it because I was sick. The only thing I did was to talk to my area Member of County Assembly (MCA) when he came to see me. His name is Hon. Steve Arika. I asked him what I could do because my brother has been doing me wrongs for a long time and I have been forgiving him.

I wanted him also to make his observations. He is the one who whispered to me that there is something like a Motion that is being moved for the removal of the Deputy Governor from office. Then he is the one who connected me to the Mover of this Motion. That is how I came to do the first thing I have done that is unheard of – the one I am talking about here.

Madam Temporary Speaker, the next one I said that when I will be well, I will move to court. Otherwise, I am here to show that my brother is misusing his power and abusing his own office. For the trees, I will move to court and the court will determine who the true owner of those trees is.

I thank you.

Sen. Tabitha, he said that he will move to court once he is out of this place.

Services, Senate.

Services, Senate.

Also, on this accusation where 20 County officers went to the family farm, what evidence do we have that they were 20, so that when we are interrogating this matter, we can ascertain who is telling the truth?

Mr. Reuben Monda: Yes.

After being released after your arrest, did you make a point of making an official complaint against your brother on the issue of misuse of his position? At the same time, when I look at both of you, you are above 60 years.

Mr. Reuben Monda: Yes.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I want to ask Mr. Reuben Monda, when did his brother, the Deputy Governor, begin misusing powers of his office and does he know that he was once an MP?

Secondly, since you became sick, has your brother provided you with any medication?

Mr. Reuben Monda: Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I said that when my brother was an MP, he never had problems with us. However, he started being very rough with us, including our old father, once he became the Deputy Governor.

I also said that it is me who shouldered all the medical bills. My brother has never even talked to me concerning this or told me sorry up to this time we are seated here.

Thank you. Proceed, Sen. Betty Montet.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. On the same issue of abuse of office, I would wish to ask Mr. Reuben to confirm whether the brother, the Deputy Governor, still has county employees at this farm to date. If not, until when were they deployed there, since he told us that he sees them every day or that they are neighbours?

Mr. Reuben Monda: Thank you, Madam Senator. The security officers at the main gate still come. I said some come at night, who sleep in one of the houses in our communal compound.

Proceed, Sen. Orwoba.

Services, Senate.

Also, on this accusation where 20 County officers went to the family farm, what evidence do we have that they were 20, so that when we are interrogating this matter, we can ascertain who is telling the truth?

Services, Senate. have you in the past declared any interest that would be conflicting to run for political office?

Mr. Reuben Monda: Was the first question meant for me? You said ‘Counsel,’ I do not understand.

Counsel, if you can answer. Who was the official complainant because we are told that the land belongs to the father? So, on record, who is the official complainant before the police were released to come and ensure there is peace. Is there an official OB that was registered? That was my first question.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Madam Temporary Speaker, yes, there is an official OB that was reported at Kiangu Police Station and this is attested by the fact that Mr. Reuben was given cash bail that is tied to that particular OB. The official complainant is the Deputy Governor as he has set out in his defence. I do not have it at my fingertip.

It should be in the bundle. He says there is an official complaint. I believe it should be in the bundle if they want to use it.

Now, it is the witness to answer the second question. Mr. Reuben Monda: Madam Temporary Speaker, the second one was meant for me. I want to say this: I am very sick. I have never even--- I am supposed to even do some business, but because I am sick, I stay in my house.

My brother nowadays is staying at home. He goes to his office and when he comes back, he finds me in the house. So, I cannot have any interest. That will be pure politics.

Proceed, Sen. Olekina. You have one minute and not more than two questions.

It is 30 seconds. Very sad for the two families on trial today. My question is to the Attorney for the Deputy Governor. I am following up with the question asked by my sister. If from what you have shown us there, the witness was arrested, why has he not been charged until today? If he has been charged, can you please clarify that?

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Madam Temporary Speaker, given the grand notions that we do live by of separation of powers, my client has not been involved in any way with interfering with the investigations, which are still ongoing through the National Police Service

(NPS)

, which has its independence to deal with the jurisdiction, investigate and make the appropriate decision whether to charge or not in conjunction with the Director of Public Prosecution

(DPP)

.

As we appear before you today, our client is not aware of any charges against Mr. Reuben.

Sen. Cheptumo? That should be the last speaker.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. The issue of the trees still remains unclear to me. The land belongs to the father of Reuben and the Deputy Governor. He confirmed that they were shown the parts to cultivate by their father.

Services, Senate.

Now, if he did not do so, my question is this. The trees that you claim to belong to you and the trees that you planted for your brother, the ones that were being cut and harvested before the police came, can you lay a claim on those trees as Reuben?

Mr. Reuben Monda: Sorry?

Counsel, if you can answer. Who was the official complainant because we are told that the land belongs to the father? So, on record, who is the official complainant before the police were released to come and ensure there is peace. Is there an official OB that was registered? That was my first question.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Madam Temporary Speaker, yes, there is an official OB that was reported at Kiangu Police Station and this is attested by the fact that Mr. Reuben was given cash bail that is tied to that particular OB. The official complainant is the Deputy Governor as he has set out in his defence. I do not have it at my fingertip.

It should be in the bundle. He says there is an official complaint. I believe it should be in the bundle if they want to use it.

Now, it is the witness to answer the second question. Mr. Reuben Monda: Madam Temporary Speaker, the second one was meant for me. I want to say this: I am very sick. I have never even--- I am supposed to even do some business, but because I am sick, I stay in my house.

My brother nowadays is staying at home. He goes to his office and when he comes back, he finds me in the house. So, I cannot have any interest. That will be pure politics.

Proceed, Sen. Olekina. You have one minute and not more than two questions.

It is 30 seconds. Very sad for the two families on trial today. My question is to the Attorney for the Deputy Governor. I am following up with the question asked by my sister. If from what you have shown us there, the witness was arrested, why has he not been charged until today? If he has been charged, can you please clarify that?

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Madam Temporary Speaker, given the grand notions that we do live by of separation of powers, my client has not been involved in any way with interfering with the investigations, which are still ongoing through the National Police Service

(NPS)

, which has its independence to deal with the jurisdiction, investigate and make the appropriate decision whether to charge or not in conjunction with the Director of Public Prosecution

(DPP)

.

As we appear before you today, our client is not aware of any charges against Mr. Reuben.

Services, Senate.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. The issue of the trees still remains unclear to me. The land belongs to the father of Reuben and the Deputy Governor. He confirmed that they were shown the parts to cultivate by their father.

Services, Senate.

Now, if he did not do so, my question is this. The trees that you claim to belong to you and the trees that you planted for your brother, the ones that were being cut and harvested before the police came, can you lay a claim on those trees as Reuben?

Mr. Reuben Monda: Sorry?

Can you claim that those trees belong to you? That is a critical question and I think Sen. Wambua was trying to raise that issue before. We should be clear that Reuben, being a witness in this case, really had a claim on a portion of the trees that were planted in his father’s land.

Mr. Reuben Monda: I said that the trees belong to our father because my brother and I do not have a title deed. It is not our father who showed us that you will be digging here and there. It is my brother and I who agreed that he would be digging on one side, and I dig on the other side.

I came back after working in Central Province, Meru and Embu and then I went back to Kisii after a long time. When I was at Kiamokama Tea Factory from 2003 to 2005 that is when I started planting trees from that side where I used to dig a long time ago. Then I realized because that time there were no issues with my brother. I asked him, “since you were doing this other side, give me money to buy you the seedlings.” He did not give me. Then I bought the seedlings and planted them. Then I told him to give me Kshs6,300.

I have said here that the issue of trees is almost a non-issue in this matter. Let us concentrate on the abuse of office and misuse of power. That is the main reason I came here.

On the issue of trees, even if we argue here, we will not come to a conclusion.

Thank you, Reuben. Hon. Senators, we have now come to the conclusion. Counsels for the County Assembly of Kisii, I believe that is your last witness. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Yes. Madam Temporary Speaker, to the extent that the summons was issued. The directions of the Chair were that the witness will be led tomorrow. We then only have one witness remaining pursuant to the summons. As for today, Madam Temporary Speaker, we can rest at this time.

Hon Senators, the session will continue tomorrow. There was direction that the witness will come at 12.00 p.m.

When we resume tomorrow morning, we will have evidence by the Deputy Governor. The team from the Deputy Governor's side can prepare for that at 9.00 a.m. when we resume.

Hon. Senators, please, be patient.

Services, Senate.

Hon. Senators, having concluded the business listed in the Order Paper of the day, the Senate stands adjourned until tomorrow, Thursday, 14th March, 2024, at 9.00 a.m.

The Senate rose at 11.36 p.m.