Wednesday, 13th March, 2024 Afternoon Sitting

Hon. Senators, I am informed that we now have quorum. Senator for Nandi County, kindly, take your seat.

Clerk, proceed to the call the first Order.

Sen. Mandago and Sen. Tabitha Mutinda, kindly, take your seats so that I can make this Communication.

Hon. Senators at the rise of the House, after the morning sitting, I had indeed indicated that I was going to deliver my ruling this afternoon. The ruling is not ready yet, it is being typed. Therefore, I invoke Standing Order No.1 to suspend the sitting for half an hour, to allow the ruling to be typed. Once we reconvene, I will be in a position to deliver that ruling.

As you may have noticed, we cannot proceed unless we dispense with the matters that had been raised in the form of preliminary objections.

Hon. Senators, kindly, be upstanding. This sitting is suspended for half-an-hour. We shall reconvene after that time.

Order, Hon. Senators, welcome back. Clerk, kindly, proceed to call the first Order.

Hon. Senators, we will now hear evidence from the County Assembly. You have four hours for evidence-in-chief, cross-examination and re- examination.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Njiru): Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for that magnanimous ruling. We therefore wish to call our first witness, who happens to be the complainant in this case, one Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati. I will ask my learned friend, Mr. Mutuma, to lead the witness.

Where is your witness, County Assembly? The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. Speaker, Sir, we have our witness, Mr. Dennis Mokaya.

Where is he? Has he disappeared? Have you confirmed his presence?

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: He is within the precincts of Parliament.

Counsel, just to remind you that your time is running. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Indeed, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

So, as you delay in calling your first witness, just get to know your time is running.

was ushered into the Chamber) The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. Speaker, Sir, we are now ready with our witness.

You may proceed to swear in the witness.

introduced himself and took the Oath) The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Good afternoon, Mr. Mokaya?

Good afternoon to you.

My name is Dennis Mokaya Misati. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Which county do you come from?

I come from Nyamira County. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Thank you. Are you the complainant in this Senate, touching on matters of impeachment of the Deputy Governor of Kisii County?

Yes, I am. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Do you recall if you swore an affidavit in support of your allegation? Confirm whether it is the one

appearing at Page 248 of the County Assembly’s bundle of documents? Can you confirm that?

Yes, I did. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: That is your affidavit?

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Do you want to abide by all the contents appearing in that affidavit and submit them as evidence before this House?

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Thank you. Now, very briefly, Mr. Mokaya, you have made certain allegations against the Deputy Governor that led to his impeachment.

Sorry? The Counsel for the County Assembly

: I am putting it to you that you made certain allegations against the Deputy Governor of Kisii that led to his impeachment. Is that correct?

Yes, I did. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: I want to refer you to a letter that appears at Page one of the bundle of documents of the County Assembly of Kisii. Can you confirm whether that---

Clerk, could the microphones be a bit louder so that we can hear both the counsel and the witness?

Proceed, counsel. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Kindly, confirm that there is a letter appearing at Page 1---

Counsel, as you lead your witness through evidence- in-chief, if you refer to any document, be specific on the volume and the page so that Senators can follow.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I am referring to Volume 1 of the County Assembly’s document at page 1.

Mr. Dennis Mokaya, is that your statement?

Yes, it is. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Does it bear your signature at the end on page 5?

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Do you wish to abide by the contents of that statement?

Yes, I do. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Now, very briefly, your allegation touches on the issue of bribery directed to the Deputy Governor of Kisii, whereby you allege that you issued some money to him with a promise to get a job position. Is that your evidence before this Senate?

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. Mokaya tell us what position were you interested in at the County Government of Kisii.

I applied for the position of commercial manager. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Commercial manager?

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Did you have the qualifications for that position?

Yes, I did. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: What is your professional background?

I am a graduate with a Bachelor of Commerce, majoring in accounting.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: You are an accountant by profession?

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: How did you come to know about that position that was advertised?

The position was brought to my attention by my father who told me there was an advertisement and asked me to go ahead and submit an application.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: What is the name of your father?

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: You are aware that your father is a witness appearing for the Deputy Governor, correct?

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: So, your father brought to your attention the vacancy at Gusii Water and Sanitation Company

(GWASCO)

Limited. Is that right?

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: What did your father tell you?

He told me to look at the website and do an application.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: When was that?

It was around mid April. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Did you apply for that vacancy?

Yes. I went to their website, did the application, attached all the documents and awaited for any communication.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Are you able to point to hon. Senators the advertisement that was done by Gusii Water and Sanitation Company

(GWASCO)

? At what page? Can you look at Page No.266 and confirm whether that is the advertisement you are talking about?

Hon. Senators, again, I am referring to Volume one of the County Assembly’s bundle of documents at Page No.266. Can you confirm that that was the advertisement?

Yes, on Page No.266. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: When your father approached you and advised you to apply for that vacancy, did he tell you that he had made any arrangements or what was his advice to you in respect to that position?

He told me to make an application for the job then he will follow it up with the Deputy Governor.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: When you say follow up, what do you mean? What kind of follow up did he talk to you about? Was that conversation candid? If it was, kindly, tell the House specifically what your father told you the nature of the follow up would be.

By the time I was doing the application, I was still in Nairobi City County doing my business. When I was called for an interview, when I went home, it is when I got to know the whole deal, that the Deputy Governor will help us secure the vacancy.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Okay. How was the Deputy Governor supposed to help in securing the job vacancy?

I was informed that the Deputy Governor was in good terms with the management and the Chief Executive Officer (CEO) of GWASCO, so it will be easier for any assistance.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: You have intimated that you were at the time working at your business in Nairobi City County. Kindly tell us what kind of business you were doing in Nairobi City County.

Personally, I was working with a company called “Together as One”, as a marketer. I had a joint business with my wife, which was a salon/kinyozi. We were also refilling gas cylinders.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Where was that business situated in Nairobi City County?

Our business was located in Ruai town, which was opposite Naivas Supermarket.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Who was running that business?

My wife. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: What is the name of your wife?

Everlyne Nyaboke.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): Subsequently to that, you did apply for the position?

Yes, I did. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Do you remember what date you applied for the position?

It was around mid April. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Were you shortlisted as an applicant?

Yes, I was shortlisted and invited for an interview. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: You were invited for an interview?

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Confirm that what appears at Page No.35 of the Deputy Governor's response is a schedule of appearances of shortlisted candidates.

Hon. Senators, the document is labelled as DG, at Page No.35.

Yes, these were the shortlisted candidates. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Confirm that that is the schedule of appearances for interviewees.

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Does your name appear in that schedule of appearance?

Yes, my name is at number four. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: What date were you scheduled to appear?

It was date 25th. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: 25th of which month?

May. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: 25th of May?

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Now, prior to the shortlisting and subsequent interview, did you make any other arrangements to secure the job opportunity?

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Proceed. What kind of arrangement did you make?

After the interview, I was at home with my parents. The Deputy Governor called my dad and told him that he will help him secure the position. He called us to his residence to make those arrangements.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: When you talk about his residence, where is that residence?

Around Keumbu.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): Keumbu is in Kisii County?

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Were you part of that meeting between your dad and the Deputy Governor?

Yes, I was. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Were you privy to the conversation between the Deputy Governor and your father?

No, we sat at a distance while the Deputy Governor and my dad had a talk.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: What did you understand was the outcome of the discussion between the Deputy Governor and your father?

It was an agreement that we pay the sum of Kshs800,000 for him to enable secure the vacancy.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: What was the Kshs800,000 supposed to do? Who were the beneficiaries of the Kshs800,000 as per the conversation between your father and the Deputy Governor?

Initially, as I had said, he said he was in touch with the CEO of GWASCO, so he was the one who will enable us get the vacancy.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. Elias Mutuma: Are you referring to the CEO or the MD of the company?

The CEO or MD, is that not the same thing? The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Correct. Did you have the money at the time? If you had, how had you raised that money?

At the time of visiting, we were aware he will demand some amount. On agreeing on the amount that we will submit, we had raised the money earlier. I was operating a salon at Ruai so after the interview, it was guaranteed that the Deputy Governor, being in his position, was able to get us the job.

My wife and I sold the salon, which we were operating at Ruai. We sold it to Mr. Peter Mungai at a sum of Kshs500,000, which is an agreement that we sold the salon.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Is that the agreement appearing at Page No.256 of the County Assembly’s bundle of documents?

Hon. Senators, I am referring to the bundle of documents from the County Assembly, Volume 1 at Page No.256.

Confirm indeed that that is the agreement between you, your wife on the one hand and the purchaser of the salon.

Yes, this is the agreement. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Dennis, was your wife part of this agreement? Did she concur with your sentiments and plan to sell the business so that you can secure a job opportunity?

At first, my wife was not in agreement. This is because we had lived in Nairobi City County for the period of 13 years and this was our

lifetime savings for that period. She was not of the idea that we sell the salon, but since this was an opportunity for us to shape our life, I had to plead with her so that she agrees we use the money for the occasion.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): Subsequently, she agreed for you to sell the salon?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): When you sold the salon, do you remember what date that was?

Yes, we wrote the agreement on date 25th. He paid us in two instalments. The first instalment was Kshs200,000.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Kindly, look at the agreement and confirm the actual dates. Was it 25th or 20th? Confirm from the agreement.

It is 25th. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Confirm from the agreement. There is a date written beneath.

The agreement was done on the 20th, but the first payment was made on 25th.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: So, the agreement was done on 20th?

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: The first instalment was to be paid on 25th of April?

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Was that before or after the shortlisting?

He gave us the money in cash. We carried it money home and gave it to our parents to keep it safe for us.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. Dennis Mokaya, are you an accountant?

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Are you saying that you gave your parents money to keep for you?

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: That does not sound very credible. Why would you feel the need to give your parents money to keep for you?

We were doing a clearance at that time. We were selling all our items from Nairobi to relocate to our rural home. We even went to an extent of borrowing from these mobile banking and from our banks.

Since my wife was the one operating the business, we were doing most of the transactions through her phone number. So, we even went to an extent of borrowing money from Kenya Commercial Bank (KCB) and Mshwari so that we could raise the full amount.

So, we felt that it is better it be kept by our parents because if we kept it, we could have used the money again. It would not have served the right purpose.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): So, you gave it to your parents because you felt you would have utilised the amount?

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Thank you. What do your parents do for a living? When you talk about your parents, kindly talk about your father and your mother.

My father is a retired civil servant. He was working in the veterinary. However, he has some business at home and operates an M- pesa shop with a small retail shop.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: He is operating an M-pesa shop?

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Was the money subsequently given to the Deputy Governor?

Yes, when the Deputy Governor requested for the Kshs800,000, on the 28th,, we gave him Kshs500,000---

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: 28th of which month?

28th May. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: 28th of May?

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Was that the year 2023?

Yes, last year. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Where was that money handed over?

My dad did a transaction of Kshs251,000 from his accounts to the Deputy Governor’s M-pesa. Then, my mother sent me Kshs250,000 to my M-pesa account so that I could transfer the same to the Deputy Governor. So, I transferred a sum of Kshs249,000 because of some transaction costs.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Kindly, go to page 255 of the County Assembly’s bundle of documents.

Hon. Senators, I am referring to volume one again at page 255. I am looking at the second last transaction contained at page 255.

Mr. Dennis, tell us about that transaction. Where was that money being sent to, from who and the time?

This is my M-pesa statement.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): Kindly read it out.

My M-pesa number is 0725487300. After receiving a transaction of Kshs250,000 from my mother, Annah Misati---

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Do you have proof that you first received money from you mother?

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Kindly, take us there. Look at the next page.

Hon. Senators, the next page is not paginated but if you flip, you will go to the next page. That is the page after 255.

Mr. Dennis, point to the hon. Senators to that transaction where money was sent to your phone from your mother’s account.

The second page of my M-pesa transaction. There is the first transaction which happened at 8.00 p.m., my mother sent me Kshs50,000. Again, at 7.51 p.m., she sent the same amount of Kshs50,000 to make it Kshs100,000. The first transaction at 7.44 p.m. she had sent ----

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: A bit slowly. Hon. Senators, I am referring to the fourth, fifth and sixth transactions appearing on that page. So, did you first receive Kshs150,000?

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: At what time?

I received the first transaction at 7.44 p.m. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: From whom?

From my mother, which was Kshs150,000. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: What is the name of your mother?

Annah Misati. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: The second transaction?

It was Kshs50,000 at 7.51 p.m. and then the last transaction from my mother was at 7.51.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Of how much again?

Kshs50,000. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Immediately after that, where did you transfer the money to?

After I had received the full amount of Kshs250,000, I transferred the amount from my M-pesa mobile number to the Deputy Governor’s phone number.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: How much money did you send to the Deputy Governor’s number?

The first amount that I sent to him was at 8.33

It is not clearly indicated but it ends with ---700. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Do you know his number?

Yes, I had it in my phone. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: You have quoted that number in your affidavit? We can refresh your memory by looking at the affidavit. It is important for that number to be captured.

The mobile number that I used to send the amount to Deputy Governor is 0711860700.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Can you repeat that?

0711860700. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: What was the name that came out after you sent the money?

The name that came out was Robert Monda. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Were you in the presence of the Deputy Governor all this time or you were away from him?

We were away from him but in the same premise. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Where is that premise?

His home. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: How many transactions did you make to the Deputy Governor in total from your M-pesa?

It is totalled to Kshs249,000. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Confirm that the last transaction to him is the second last transaction appearing at page 255.

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Is that from your Mpesa again?

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: How did he receive the remainder of the amount if any?

After leaving his residence, we had given him a sum of Kshs500,000. The initial agreement was that we had to pay the Kshs800,000. So, after leaving the place, we agreed that we shall deliver the balance amount the following day which was on a Monday. We went to his place on a Sunday, and the following Monday. We were to deliver the balance which was Kshs300,000 at his office.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Did he receive any other amounts of money from any of the persons you were in the company off on that day?

He only received the amounts from my father.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): Are you able to point us to that transaction where your father sent money to the Deputy Governor on the same day?

We are getting there, hon. Senators. On page 65, Volume II of the Deputy Governor's (DG's) response, kindly show us the transaction where your father sent money to the Deputy Governor, appearing at page 65.

It is on page 65 on the same date of 28th, my dad made four transactions. The first one was from a Cooperative Bank Account. This is a joint account between my dad and mum. The first transaction was Kshs70,000. The second one was Kshs70,000, and again, he did a transaction of Kshs70,000. Later, he did another transaction of Kshs41,000. So, it is totaling to Kshs251,000.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: What was the nature of this transaction? It reflects that it is from a bank. How was that payment done from the bank?

It was done from the bank to the M-pesa account of the Deputy Governor. However, this is a different number from the one I used.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: What number is that?

This number is 0702000220. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Please repeat.

It is 0702000220. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Who is the registered owner of that number?

It is registered to the Deputy Governor. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: That would total to how much; what you had given him and what your parents sent to the Deputy Governor?

It is totaling to Kshs500,000. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Your allegation was that the ask was for Kshs800,000. What happened to the balance?

We agreed that on the following day, which was on a Monday, we would bring the balance of the Kshs300,000 to his office which is situated at the Gusii Stadium.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Have you had the occasion to look at the response of the Deputy Governor in defense to that specific allegation?

Not yet. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: I want to refer you to the Deputy Governor's response, what he said about why he had received money from you and your father and what he did to it. I want you to look at that response at paragraph

Hon. Speaker, Sir, I can say that this is a lie because if we look at the whole thing, I was included in sending the money to the Deputy Governor. If at all this was a debt that my dad was paying to the Deputy Governor, then if we look at his Cooperative Bank joint account, the account holds more than what I sent.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Let us go back to that account, now that you have raised the issue. How much did your mother and father jointly have as at the time they were sending money to the Deputy Governor and what was the balance after they sent money to the Deputy Governor?

Hon. Senators, we are, again, making reference to the Deputy Governor's response.

So, after my dad sent the last amount, which was Kshs41,000, his account balance was a balance of Kshs1.3 million.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: So, your father still had some balance in his account?

Yes, he had a balance of Kshs1.3 million. Indeed, if he was paying a debt, he could have done the whole transaction at ago.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Thank you. I want you to look at that response again. The Deputy Governor of Kisii County alleges that he had loaned your father the amount of Kshs600,000, some of which money had gone towards paying fees for your child. Hon. Senators, I am referring to page E5 of the Deputy Governor's response.

Had you received any money from your father that to your knowledge, was an advance from the Deputy Governor that you paid school fees for your child with and now that day you were refunding?

No. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Have you ever sought any assistance from your parents towards the education of your child?

Yes. This was after we had given the money to the Deputy Governor. We had sold everything we owned and gone back home. I was not in any financial position thereafter to take my daughter to school.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. Dennis, I have perused through the statements and I have seen a number of transactions between your father and the Deputy Governor as late as January 2024 - money flowing from your father to the Deputy Governor, and vice versa. Are you aware why your father would occasionally send money to the Deputy Governor and vice versa? His defense is that they are long-term friends and they used to loan each other money and this was not an isolated case. What do you have to say to that?

I cannot deny that they are long-term friends; actually it exceeds 30 years. The main transaction between my father and the DG is that my father is one of the officials of a SACCO that he leads at our home.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: What is the name of that SACCO?

It is called Kebobora Women’s Group. It is in our locality and he is the Treasurer. On many occasions, the Deputy Governor borrows money from the SACCO through my dad's name, then he refunds with an interest. That is, generally, the business they have been doing.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: On this day, could it be one of such instances where the Deputy Governor had borrowed money and was being refunded by your father?

No, it is not one of those days. As I stated earlier, if actually, this was the borrowing and lending business, I am not an official of the SACCO. Therefore, I would not be entitled to make any transaction to the Deputy Governor through my mobile phone.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Did you have any other reason to visit the Deputy Governor's home on 28th of May, apart from the business of giving him money for securing the job vacancy? Did you have any other business?

No. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Have you ever been to the Deputy Governor's home at any other time?

No. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: What then does your presence mean against the defense of the Deputy Governor that it was a repayment of the loan?

I was the owner of this whole initiative. I was the one who was looking for employment. So, I was to be there to witness what was going on because this was my money.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Are you aware if the Deputy Governor ever transmitted any money to the target of the bribe?

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Who was that target?

The Director of Gusii Water and Sanitation Company limited (GWASCO) ---

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: What is the name of the Managing Director of GWASCO?

Her name is Lucy Wahito. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Kindly look at the document before you. Hon. Senators, I am looking at page 99 of the Deputy Governor’s response.

Is there any money sent to that very person, Lucy Wahito, the Managing Director (MD) of Gusii Water and Sanitation Company Limited (GWASCO) on that very day?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, yes, there is a sum of Kshs100,000.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: What time was that money sent?

It was sent on 28th May, 2023, at 9.24 p.m. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: What time had you sent the money to the Deputy Governor?

The first transaction was made at 8.33 p.m. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Then an hour he sends money to the same Lucy, the MD of GWASCO?

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: The very company where you had applied and you were shortlisted for a position?

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: The Deputy Governor says that the money was sent erroneously, but interestingly, to the same person that he was meant to bribe. What do you say about that?

I do not know what to say, but this was that transaction but I believe this was a bribe so that he could---

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: In your previous discussions with the Deputy Governor and your father, were you aware that Lucy Wahito was the person meant to be bribed by the amount of money you were giving?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I did not know the name, but I know it was going to be given to the Managing Director who happens to be Lucy Wahito.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Thank you. Did you ever secure that employment at GWASCO?

No, I did not. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: You did not.

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Did you follow up with the Deputy Governor or your father to make an inquiry over the same?

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I did. We made constant follow-ups through my father with the Deputy Governor but we did not receive any communication.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Dennis Mokaya Misati, your own biological father and your mother will appear tomorrow before the Senate and they will label you a liar. Why would you want to go against the statement of your own father? Why would your father be lying about the purpose of the money sent to the Deputy Governor?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is my life and that was my money. That was my lifetime savings. If my dad chooses friendship over the truth, then let it be so.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Thank you.

Are you done with the witness because he is breaking down?

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. Speaker, Sir, we can pause for 30 seconds. He can recollect himself.

Serjeant-at-Arms, kindly, take care of the situation in the public gallery.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. Misati, can we proceed? Kindly tell the hon. Senators about your current relationship with your parents as a result of this?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I do not have anything against my parents. The fact is that this was my family’s lifetime savings. We had built this business for the last 13 years. This was our opportunity to sell the business and get something that would benefit the family. However, we lost everything. After we lost everything, my parents at home became unsupportive, so we had to leave our home and find somewhere else to start all over again.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: How did that affect you and your wife?

Counsel, just hold on. What is your intervention, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale? Senators, just to remind you that you will have an opportunity to engage the witness. I hope that whatever you want to raise has got nothing to do with seeking clarification or asking questions.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, purely on humanitarian grounds, I request that you use Standing Order No.1 to allow the young witness, probably five or 10 minutes maximum to recompose himself. You can see that the witness is completely emotionally eroded.

From the Counsel, the witness is doing pretty well and that is why they proceeded, otherwise, that application can only come from the Counsel and not from you, hon. Senator.

Counsel, proceed. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I urge the witness to gather courage and proceed.

Mr. Misati, how has this ordeal affected your family life; you and your wife?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, initially, my wife was not in agreement that we sell our family business to relocate to our home. I had to persuade her to agree with me so that we get better after we secure that job. We, therefore, agreed and relocated to our home.

After that, we were disappointed because I did not secure the opportunity. Recruitment was done and people reported for duty. It was very stressful and my wife did not take it easy and she branded me a liar because we lost the family business. At that

time, my wife was expecting, after 12 years of trying. My first born is 13 years old. We had tried for all that period. During that hard time, my wife miscarried---

After learning that the appointments were done and there was no job, no vacancy and all my savings were gone, I approached one of my friends. I have been following him on social media since 2022 and he is now an elected Member of County Assembly (MCA) of Ichuni Ward with the intention of inquiring if he could help me secure the money I gave to the Deputy Governor.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Is that the mover of this Motion?

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: What did the Mover of this Motion advice you to do after you brought this to his attention?

When I reported to him, he took it as a joke until I provided the documents. He requested for the M-pesa statement showing the transactions and I did give him. He then advised me to make a formal complaint so that he can follow up with the Deputy Governor for my refund. I knew he was doing it so that I could get my refund. I never knew it would reach this far.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: It was not your intention to find yourself at the Senate on the impeachment charges?

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Have you ever received your money back?

No. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Have you made any follow-ups in any Government agency to recover your money?

After leaving home and relocating to Nairobi, I made a complaint at Ethics and Anti-Corruption Commission (EACC) on the same.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Has the EACC summoned anyone in respect to this issue?

After making the complaint, they summoned the Chief Executive Officer of Gusii Water and Sanitation Company (GWASCO) .

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Who is that?

Ms. Lucy Wahito.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): Lucy was summoned by EACC pursuant to your complaint?

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Thank you very much.

Mr. Speaker, Sir. I would like to stop at that and yield the witness to my learned friend for cross-examination.

Counsel for the Deputy Governor. It is your turn now. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Good afternoon, Mr. Misati.

Good afternoon. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: I would like to start with a few preliminary issues. From the cross-examination, you have said that you have seen the response by your father and mother.

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You see that their position is that they were refunding money they borrowed from the Deputy Governor?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: What did you say is your reaction to the point made by your parents that the money was a refund of a loan that had been given to them?

It is a lie. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You are telling the Senate that it is a lie?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Now, in your affidavit, you admit readily that your father and the Deputy Governor have been friends for many years?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Is that a fact?

It is a fact. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Do you know whether they were borrowing each other money over the years?

Yes, they have been borrowing money. I can say that the Deputy Governor has been borrowing money---

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Listen to my question.

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You admit that indeed, over the years, they have been borrowing each other money?

Yes.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Okay. Now, it is also true your father and the Deputy Governor have an Agrovet business in Kisii. Is that not it?

No. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Both of them do it separately.

No. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: It is not a joint business. Each of them is running their own business. Is that not it?

There is no business at this date. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Okay. Did they use to run?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Okay, sorry about that. It is also true that they use to borrow each other stocks.

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Okay. So, your position is that in respect to this specific point that Mr. and Mrs. Misati borrowed money in November/October 2022 is a lie. Having admitted that they borrow each other money, what makes you distinguish this refund of money borrowed in November/October 2022? What distinguishes this exchange?

My reason is that I was--- as he said they are giving a refund. I was not involved in their transactions. I came from Nairobi to Kisii for the first time after a long period of time. So here comes---

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You admit that you do not know what the transactions were?

The one I sent to the Deputy Governor? The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Yes.

I know. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Let us go back to my question. Having admitted that they borrowed each other stock and money, what is it that distinguishes the case of these Kshs500,000 that Mr. and Mrs Misati are saying they borrowed from Dr. Monda in November and were refunding in May, 2023?

I have never been included all along on their borrowing business. I am in this case.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Could the record of the Senate then reflect that--- your point is that you are asking for your money but you did not know whether or not they had borrowed each other in November, 2022?

Actually, what--- The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Do you know whether or not they borrowed each other in November?

That was not a borrowing.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Your position is that they did not borrow each other in November?

I do not know but at that time--- The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You do not know. Let us leave it there. I wanted you to confirm whether you can say for a fact that they did not borrow each other or you do not know.

You also say that--- In your affidavit, I have seen quite a number of paragraphs where the communication was between your father on your behalf and the Deputy Governor. Is that not it?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Do you have your affidavit there?

Hon. Members, I am referring to page 17 of the Deputy Governor’s bundle. Do you have it?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Could you confirm that paragraph five is information you received and it got to you through your father and it was not a direct conversation with the Deputy Governor?

You say in paragraph five that “In early 2023, my father had learned through Deputy Governor of job vacancies with GWASCO”. Is that what you have said?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: That information came to you through your father. Is that it?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Not a personal conversation with the Deputy Governor.

It was through my father. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Please let us go to paragraph six. You said that “on 21st April, while I was working with a company known as Together As One Finance as a Marketeer, my father brought to my attention”, That information came to you through your father. You did not talk with the Deputy Governor.

It came through my father. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Okay. Let us look at paragraph nine. You said in paragraph nine that, “the Deputy Governor called us to his home within days of being informed by my father about the post and before the interviews were carried out.” Can you see that?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: That also came through your father, not directly between you and the Governor.

All the communication was done through my father.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Okay. I would like you to look at paragraph 11

(d)

on the next page. Are you at

(d)

?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You said Kshs250,000 was sent to Dr. Monda through my father’s Safaricom line. That is also information in the hands of your father, not you personally. Is that not it?

This was information from my father. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Thank you very much. Lastly, in paragraph 17, you said that you informed your father of the intention to report the matter to EACC and your father told Dr. Monda and that Dr. Monda got upset.

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Having gone through that, could you confirm that in terms of the whole of these transactions, you have not had a direct conversation between yourself and Dr. Monda and that you tell your father to communicate with Dr. Monda?

All the communications were done through my dad. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Your father?

Yes. I have never had any direct communication. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Okay. Could we also confirm that apart from not having a personal conversation with Dr. Monda, you did not have any telephone conversation with him?

True. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: No telephone or oral conversation? Did you say you have been to Dr. Robert Monda's house only once when you were being led in evidence in June?

In his office? The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: In his house.

We went to his house on the 28th --- The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: I understand that. You have said that was the only time you went there?

That was the first time I went there. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: What does it mean to say first time? Have you subsequently gone there?

No. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

:: So, it is the only time?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

:: Okay. So it is the only time even as we stand here today?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: It is also your testimony that on that date of 28th when you remitted the sum of Kshs249, 000, Hon. (Dr.) Robert Monda and your father were seated at a distance talking as friends?

Yes.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Were you separate from them?

Yes. I was with my other brothers. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: How many of them?

We were with my other three brothers. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: So, you were four brothers. Did you participate in the conversation between hon.

(Dr.)

Robert Monda and your father? For instance, it was on a Saturday or did you make any contribution? Did you participate in that conversation at all in one way or the other?

No. I did not. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: It is your case that the money belongs to you?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: It is also your admission that you do not know whether your father owed Hon. (Dr.) Robert Monda any money?

Sorry? The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: As you stand here before the Senate, your position is that the money belongs to you. Is that true?

Yes, that was my money. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Simultaneously, you cannot say for a fact, from where we have just come in cross-examination, that your father, Mr. Joseph Misati, did not owe Hon. (Dr.) Robert Monda any money. You cannot say that.

If he had, I did not know--- The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Just answer the question I have asked you. You cannot say for a fact whether Joseph and your mom owed Hon. (Dr.) Robert Monda any money. You cannot confirm that.

I cannot confirm. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Thank you. Let us go to paragraph 10. We will come back to the other paragraphs.

Hon. Members, I am referring to page 18 of the Deputy Governor’s bundle paragraph 10. In paragraph 10, you have said “My father and I voluntarily gave him Kshs799,000 an amount meant to secure me a job believing him as Deputy Governor with influence over Gusii Water and Sewerage Company (GWASCO) which is an entity of the county government which he deputizes as head of government. You stand by that statement. Is that true?

Yes, I do. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: If this was a court, you would be ready to be sentenced? Is that true? You are admitting that you are a criminal?

I am not admitting---

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): You are saying that I you gave out a bribe. Are you not saying that here?

I can say that--- The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: On paragraph 10, you are saying you gave out money with the intention of getting a job. Is that what you are saying? A bribe with an intention of getting a job?

I only succumbed to pressure from his office. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Okay, your state of mind aside, all I am saying is that you are admitting before this Senate that as you stand, testify and complain, you are criminal. Is that not true?

I am not. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Have you not said that you are a criminal and that you gave out a bribe or do you think giving a bribe is not a crime?

At first, they called it a facilitation fee, others call it ‘tea’. I do not know. Now you are calling it a bribe.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Who complained to Hon. Siocha that he bribed and did not get a job?

I told Hon. Siocha I gave--- The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: So, I want to move on from this point. Are you now then telling this Senate, it was not a bribe but a facilitation fee? Are you re-baptizing the name of this Kshs799,000?

That is how we call it. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: It was a facilitation, not a bribe?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Your hope was and it was somehow a gamble that if I give out Kshs799, 000, I will get a job. That was the state of your thinking based on what you brought to this Senate.

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You were gambling that at least this Kshs799, 000 will fetch me a job. Is that not true?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: I said you were gambling with getting a job? You were hoping to get a job?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: May I ask you as a general proposition, is it true that you by nature engage in gambling?

What do you mean? The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: That you are a gambler.

That is not true.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Say that again. You swore to say the truth? Is that not it?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Are you swearing that by nature, you are not a gambler? You do not bet?

Actually, betting is a --- The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: So, you gamble? You gambled on the job and you are a generally a gambler. Is that not it?

Hon. Members, I would like to go to pages 21 and 22 of the Deputy Governor’s bundle. Do you have your M-Pesa record there?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: I would like you to look at the first page. Your M-Pesa was obtained on the 29th of January, 2024. Can you see that?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: I would like you to look at the entry of the 28th May, 2023. It should be the fourth last entry from the bottom. Are you there? Do you want me to help you?

Yes, it is there. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: It is true that in that entry you had about Kshs400 and you spent about Kshs100 in gambling. Is that true?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Okay. Let us go to page two. I would like you to look at the entry of your transaction on 28th May. The same day we are talking about at noon. Are you there?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: At that time, you had Kshs300 and you spent Kshs200 in gambling. Is that not it?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Then at 10:21 on the same 28th May; the same day we are talking about money being sent to Hon. (Dr.) Robert Monda, you did not have any money. You had only Kshs34. However, somehow you spent Kshs100 on gambling.

Is that not it?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Then the day before at 18:51 hours, you spent another Kshs100 and left a balance of Kshs34 in your account. I do not want to go through all this because of time. You, however, agree that generally, your statement shows you engage in gambling.

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: The same way you were gambling with the Hon. (Dr.) Robert Monda at the job?

Yes.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Okay. Thank you. I want to move on to the big question here. Whose money was it? Your position is it is your money but you do not know whether Mr. and Mrs. Joseph Misati owed the Deputy Governor money.

I would like us to discuss on the face of what you came with to the Assembly and subsequently to this Senate.

It is true from what my colleague Mr. Mutuma took you through that you confirm that money came from your mother’s, Mrs. Ann Misati, M-Pesa account to your account. Is that not it?

True. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: So, let us start. You received money from---

Hon. Senators, that M-pesa statement is on pages 75 to 88 but with particular reference to the entries on page 87. Which bundle are you using?

Sorry? The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Let me see the bundle you are using. Thank you very much. Are you on page 87?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Could you confirm that the entry of 28th May at 20:01, you received Kshs50,000 from Mrs. Misati who is your mum?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: At 19:51, you received another Kshs50,000 from her?

Yes, I did. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Lastly, at 19:44, you received Kshs159,000 from her?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Okay. These are exactly the amounts that you remitted to Dr. Monda, less Kshs1,000?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Why did you keep Kshs1,000?

That was for transaction costs. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Okay. So, you kept Kshs1,000 for transaction costs?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: So, your mum sent you Kshs250,000. You remitted to Dr. Monda only Kshs249,000 and kept Kshs1,000, is that not so?

Actually, it was not Kshs1,000. After the transaction cost, I do not know how much remained in the account.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Do you know how much it was?

It was less by Kshs1,000, but I do not know how much remained in the account.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: The question I have for you is this, did you call your mum to request her to withhold Kshs1,000?

Sorry? The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You withheld Kshs1,000 from her, is that not the case?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Did you request her to withhold that Kshs1,000? Did she authorize you to keep that Kshs1,000?

No. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Did your father authorize you to keep that Kshs1,000?

My dad told me to send Kshs249,000. It was my father because we were with him.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Okay. It is because you needed to cushion yourself against the expenses of that transaction, is that not the case?

That was the--- The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: He did not want you to incur an expense. You are saying he told you to keep Kshs1,000, and send Kshs249,000. Was that so?

This was--- The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: No, we must go through this. He did not want you to spend your money. So, he told you to send Kshs249,000 and keep Kshs1,000, being the charges that you would incur for passing on this money, is it not so?

That is not true. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: What is the true position?

Actually, my dad did the first transactions to the Deputy Governor. He had transacted a total Kshs100,000---

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Let us not go back so that we do not spend too much time. Why were you keeping Kshs1,000? Let me just put it like that.

Because my dad had sent him Kshs251,000 with an extra Kshs1,000. So, I sent Kshs249,000 to make it a total of Kshs500,000.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: If that money was yours, why would your father be concerned about whether or not you would spend money to remit the amount? Why would he bother? Is it not because it was his money and he did not want you to go at a loss?

It was because he wanted to make the full payment of Kshs500,000.

The reason is that your father did not want you to spend money on his business. Is that not the case?

That is not true. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Okay. I will move from there. So, your position is that the money that your mum sent was your money. Is that your position?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Without spending so much time on that point, could you confirm that you have not given us any paper trail to show that the money was from you to your mum's M-pesa account?

I gave the full amount of Kshs800,000--- The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: No, just answer my question. My question is, we have traced how money came from your mum to your account and then to Dr. Monda. Is it not so?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You have shown us the EACC documents and so on and so forth. In the same way that you are so diligent, you have not given us, with the same diligence, documents showing that on a given date, you remitted a sum of Kshs250,000 to your mum, which is a basis for you to say that money was yours and your mum was just a custodian.

There were no documents.

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You have said that Kshs250,000 was remitted using your father’s Safaricom line. Is it not so?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Okay. Now, let us start from there. This is mistaken and not accurate. Is this correct?

This is not correct. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: This is wrong?

Yes.

When did you realize it is wrong?

The transaction that my dad did--- The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: No. You went to see Hon. Siocha and told him---

That is not true; those are not the allegations. Let me explain.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Okay.

When we were doing these transactions---

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): I do not want to go a long way. You are not answering my question. My question is simply this; do you admit that in Paragraph 11(d), it is not true that your father remitted Kshs250,000 using his Safaricom line? Do you admit that?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: My question is simply this; when did you realise that was inaccurate?

When I saw my father's statement. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: So, you saw it for the first time when your father explained that he did not send money to Dr. Monda through M-pesa. Is it not so?

The initial case was---

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: How?

The first transaction was done secretly between my dad and the Deputy Governor. Then he came back to me saying---

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: No, we are talking about a different issue. The question is simply whether it was paid through Safaricom? The answer is no. When did you learn it? You have said when my father responded.

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Let me just put it directly to you. You realised that the money was sent from a co-operative bank account directly to Dr. Monda, is it not the case?

Sure. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: That was the first time you realised, kumbe that transaction was not done through M-pesa to M-pesa, it was actually bank to bank transfer to Dr. Monda's account. Is it not so? Was there any time you knew your money was at a co-operative bank? Let me put it this way. Did you at any time deposit money at a co-operative bank account of your father and mother?

No, I gave the full amount in cash. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You gave Kshs250,000 in cash. So, you did not know whether it was in M-pesa?

Wherever they chose to keep it, I did not know. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Thank you very much. I would like to move on.

You also say that your father remitted Kshs250,000. Is that correct? Was it Kshs250,000?

It was Kshs251,000. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: So, even in that sense, this statement is also wrong?

Yes. It was Kshs251,000.

That is not true. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: What is not true?

We live in a world of technology. So, if I make a transaction between me and you, it is personal. I cannot take---

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: I think that is irrelevant. What I am asking you is, if you were seated with Dr. Monda and your father, you would have heard that your father was saying, he will give him the money from Co- operative Bank. You did not hear that, did you?

We sat at a distance. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Neither would you have heard about Kshs251,000?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Okay. For argument’s sake, let us say that they discussed about the bribe. That story of whether or not this money was for a bribe or refund is what your father would tell you when you were leaving the place, is it not so?

You were not sitting together and discussing whether the work was worth Kshs1 million, Kshs500,000, Kshs799,000 or Kshs800,000. You were not there to listen to that conversation as to whether or not this money was a bribe. It must be what your father told you as you walked out, as we have seen in paragraphs 5, 6, 9, 11, and 17.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I do not see the need why I should go with all my sons to the Deputy Governor’s house or home to pay a debt as he says. He could have done that comfortably from our home.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: But they are friends, is it not so?

Yes, they are friends.

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: And this visit was not exceptional? The only distinction is that you went there with him for the first time.

It was my first time. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: However, let us go back to the issue I want the Senate to understand. The question of the body of the conversation between the Deputy Governor and your father is an issue that you could have only learnt from your father while walking out because you were not seated with them, is it not?

Actually, when the Deputy Governor called us, we knew what we were going to do at his home.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: I will ask you again. Did you hear what they were discussing?

I did not hear what they were discussing but my dad was--- The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: So, you did not know whether this money was for a job?

I knew. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: How did you know, when you could not hear? They had discussed earlier.

My father had updated us before leaving home to Dr. Monda’s place.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: That is okay with me. So, it is your father who told you that they were going to pay Dr. Monda to help you get a job. Is that your point?

Dr. Monda had called him and instructed him to visit his place---

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Yes. The real bottom line, Dennis, if you do not mind, is that there is no point at which where you and Dr. Monda discussed whether or not he could get you a job. All you know is what your father told you.

Yes. All the communication was through my dad. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Let us now look at Paragraph five of your affidavit. You state that “in early April, 2023, my father had learnt through the Deputy Governor of a job at the Gusii Water and Sanitation Company

(GWASCO)

. Have you seen that?

Hon. Members, page 17, Paragraph five.

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: In early April, 2024, my father had learnt through the Deputy Governor of job vacancies. Your position is that it was the Deputy Governor who told your father that? Is that what you are saying?

Yes, that is my position. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: The source of information was the Deputy Governor telling your father?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Okay. Let us look at Paragraph nine of your affidavit on page 18. It states “the Deputy Governor called us to his home in Kisii County within days of being informed by my father about the post and before the interview”. Can you see that?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Okay. At Paragraph five, you say that the traffic of information is from the Deputy Governor to your father. In Paragraph nine, you are saying that the source of traffic is from your father calling the

Deputy Governor. The Senate is to check who initiated this discussion about the job. Is it as in Paragraph five, where the Deputy Governor initiated it or was it your father as is in Paragraph 9?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is the Deputy Governor who called my dad.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Paragraph nine is inaccurate?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: I would like us to look at Paragraph six. According to you, the Deputy Governor called your father and told him there is a job and then your father told you to scout-you used that word- and so forth. Is it not?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: At Paragraph six, you state that “on Friday, 21st April, 2023 while I was working with a company known as Together as One as a marketer, my father brought to my attention the advertisement for job vacancies by GWASCO on its website. I downloaded the advert and applied for the post of commercial manager.’’ Do you stand by that statement as it is?

Yes.

If you stand by it, could you tell this Senate when you knew for the first time that there was a job on offer at GWASCO; one of Kisii county’s subsidiaries? From the face of the statement.

It was done through my dad. He is the one who told me---

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: I am asking how you got to know the information. When was the first time you knew in regards to the face of the statement? It was on the 21st is it not?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, from this statement, it was when I was told that there were vacancies.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You learned for the first time that the job has been advertised? Then you apply. Let us get this sequence in order. On 21st April, 2023, you were told it has been advertised and you applied. Then you were subsequently invited for interview, you went for it, evaluated but did not get the job. Is it not?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: The discussion about the need to give Dr. Monda Kshs799,000 happens after you have made the application. Is it not?

After I did my interview. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: In evidence in chief, you said that the interview was on the 25th May, 2023. The correct position was that it was on the 15th May?

The interview was around the 25th ---

Mr. Katwa Kigen: Ms. Lucy Wahito says and yourself has said in other places that it was the 15th May, 2023.

You can see from the --- The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Yes, we can see from the letter of invite at page---I will get the date in a minute and then probably. If you could go to page 40---

You were shortlisted. Is that right? Pardon me. I am just trying to locate your name.

You can check it on page 39. That is the page that has the shortlisted applicants.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: When was the interview?

26th May, 2023. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: That is when the interview was?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You said page 39?

Page 39. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: This is a shortlist of the Human Resource Manager

(HRM)

. Were you applying for that position?

We did them at the same time--- The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Could you check page 35, kindly? Anyway, let me do this because I do not see the date---

It is on 25th May, 2023. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Look at the bottom of page 36. Are you there?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Does it show the date of the interview at the bottom?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: So, when was your interview again, my friend?

This shows when the shortlisting was done, date 15th . However, the interviews were done on the 25th May, 2023.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Okay. We will come back to that. You are telling this Senate that you learnt of the adverts on the 21st April, 2023. You made the application, got shortlisted and went for the interview before you discussed about the bribe?

I want the point in time where the issue of bribe was discussed. Was it before or after the interviews?

After the interview. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: The interview could have been on 25th May, 2023?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Okay, before the date the interview was conducted, you had not discussed raising money to pay Dr. Monda?

My father had told me that it would be required but at that time, the Deputy Governor had not communicated.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Okay. When did he inform you? It is okay if you cannot remember. Just give us a timeline.

It was towards the end of April. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You made your application on 21st April, is it not? And you are saying towards the end of April – so, we are looking around 25th to 23rd is when your father told you that it is likely that some amount will be required to get the job?

This is April. We are talking about May when we gave the amount.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: When did the subject of being bribed come up?

After my interview. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You are telling this Senate that the interview was on 25th May, 2023? Before that, the issue of bribe had not been discussed?

It was not discussed, but we had an idea after my interview that something would be required.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Kindly tell this Senate again. You are saying that before your interview on the 25th, May, Dr. Monda had not asked for anything but you in your place suspected he might?

I cannot confirm the communication that took place between my father and the Deputy Governor.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: So, the first time you had communication from Dr. Monda was post-interview on 25th May. This is the first time Dr. Monda spoke and said, ‘Please, bring me Kshs800,000” according to you from your father?

I cannot tell because they usually talk. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: If you do not remember, it is okay. But your position is that the earliest Dr. Monda asked about any money was after the interview.

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Before that, he had not asked for any money.

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Okay. You said something I did not know. Before he asked you for the money after the interview on the 25th May, you suspected he might need some money.

No, I told you all the communication was done --- The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Just answer the question. You had said that earlier. Are you retracting? Did you suspect that you will need some money?

To get some money? What do you mean? To give some money or get some money?

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: To give him some money for the job.

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: From where you are seated you knew he might need it?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: But he had not told you.

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Okay. We are looking at the date of the application as the 25th, we are looking at an application made on the 21st of April and an interview done on the 25th of May. I would like us to go to the Deputy Governor’s bundle on page 256. Hon. Members, I am looking at Volume 1 of the County Assembly bundle page 256. Are you there, my friend? I am looking at your bundle.

That is volume? The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Page 256 on this bundle. The sale agreement. Are you there?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, am I allowed to go next to him so that we move on as they look for the page?

Please, if he can assist. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Mr. Dennis, I would like you to see the bottom of that agreement. In evidence in chief, you admit that you made that agreement on the 20th of April, 2023.

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Okay. Keeping in mind the timelines you have said – you applied on the 21st of April, you went for the interview on the 25th of May, then the request for a bribe was raised by Dr. Monda according to you. By the 25th of April 2023 when you were selling your salon for Kshs500,000, Dr. Monda had not told you anything about a bribe. You were only suspecting that he would ask for a bribe.

I did not know any communication. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Sorry.

I did not know of any communication between Mr. Monda and my dad at that time. At this time, I was not at home, I was in Nairobi.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Yes, I know you were in Nairobi. At that time, when you were selling it, you had no communication about any bribe being required.

My dad told me we shift from Nairobi to Kisii. It was necessary to make the job arrangements. I had to.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: So, if your interview was on the 25th of May, the issue of the need to use the money you had came a month later on the 25th of May. This is the 20th of April and Dr. Monda is asking for money – I am not saying he did, this is according to your case. He asked for it a month later on the 25th of May.

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: All this time you are holding the money?

I was not holding the money. I gave the whole amount to my father. I told you they operate a business, I gave them the whole amount to keep it safe.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: So, I have the greatest possible respect for you, Mr. Dennis. When you cry and say you sold your salon, you are doing so from your mind that a bribe might be required. Dr. Monda did not tell you he needed the money. When you were selling it, it was not because he had told you to sell your salon.

As I stated earlier, I did not know any communication between my father and ---

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Why are you crying? It is not Dr. Monda who told you to sell your salon or caused you to sell your salon. He had not told you to give him any bribe.

Where is my business? Where did it go to? The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: When you sold it on the 20th Dr. Monda had not spoken to you. Had he? I have made my point to the Senate I would like to move on to a different issue. I want to finish because I know your colleagues need time. You said Dr. Monda threatened you.

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: This is the other account against Dr. Monda. We have agreed that you never spoke with Dr. Monda at any point on the phone.

Every communication was done through my father. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Even the threat came through your father?

It came through Hon. Siocha whom I had reported the issue to, and he told me to write a formal statement.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: I do not know if we are mixing the issues. We are talking about being threatened. We agree that there was no

communication between you and Dr. Monda. Any time you needed to communicate to Dr. Monda, you would do it through your father?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: At a certain point, you labour under the feeling that you had been threatened and the feeling was communicated to you by your father or by whom?

When I told my dad I wanted to make a formal complaint, he was not of the idea.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Please answer the question directly. Is it your father who told you that Dr. Monda is upset and has threatened your life?

I got the information from my father. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: The Senate can then rest and say, knowing that the point that you were threatened was communicated to you by your father that it came from Dr. Monda.

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: That is good enough. I want to move on from there. Looking at paragraph 17, I have two last issues I want to discuss. First, we proceed to paragraph 12. You have nothing to show that any Kshs300,000 was given to Dr. Monda other than word of mouth.

No. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You do not have?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You are a witness for the point that Kshs300,000 given to Dr. Monda. Is your father Mr. Joseph Misati?

Yes, I was with my father. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: He will testify and say, “I was with my son when we gave Dr. Monda the money.”

Yes, I was with him. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Let us move on to paragraph 15. You said that-

‘I thereafter wrote a demand letter to the Deputy Governor’’. Could you confirm that in the totality of the documents you have brought, you have not given us a copy of that demand letter?

What I did after the complaint to hon. Siocha --- The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: We have documents that the Senate is looking at as you have seen we have gone through. The letter is not among the documents. There is no demand letter that you brought to the Senate.

I gave the copy to Hon. Siocha. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: It is Hon. Siocha who will explain it?

Yes.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Okay, let us move on. You reported the matter to the Ethics and Anti-Corruption Commission (EACC).

Yes, I did. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Hon. Members, I want to refer to the DG’s bundle page 16 where the letter of EACC is.

Could you confirm that this is the letter of complaint? Why do they keep taking the document away from you? We are on page 16 which is a letter dated 6th February, 2024, delivered to the EACC on 20th of February. This is not the letter you used to make your complaint.

This is a follow-up letter. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Have you brought to this Senate a copy of your letter of complaint, tabulating the issues you have complained against Dr. Monda?

The complaints were recorded and there was no document given.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: So, you meant you have nothing to show for it?

Yes, it is only the recording that they did at the Ethic and Anti-Corruption Commission (EACC) .

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Okay, and you have no reference number?

Actually, there was no reference number given. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Now, this Senate is investigative in these kinds of matters and might want to know whether that report was made. Could you tell this Senate, what day did you make this report to EACC?

It was before this---

I cannot remember the specific date. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Which place did you report this to?

EACC. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Where?

At Integrity. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Integrity House?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: And your statement is at Integrity House?

Yes.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Okay. So, if this Senate wants to summon somebody to confirm that, who did you report your statement to? Give us a name.

I do not know the name, but after I made the complaint ---

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Just answer the question directly, so that we move on. You do not have a name?

I remember she was a lady, but I do not remember her name.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Pardon.

She is a lady. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: She is right handed or left handed or you do not know?

I cannot tell. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Okay, but you do not know the name, date and you have no copy of any complaints.

I would then to move on to a different issue as I close. What is your wish from this Senate? Your wish is that you get back your money? Is that what you want this Senate to say? What is your wish?

My wish as a young graduate, it is just a representation of the exploits that---

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

:No, you cried about your money and so, is it your point that you want the Deputy Governor to be punished, lose his job or you want the refund of your money? What is it that you want this Senate to do?

When I made the complaint to the police, I wanted my money back.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You are not answering my question. You want back your money?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Your expectation is that this Senate will tell the Deputy Governor to give you back your money. Let me ask you differently. Have you filed a civil suit for refund of your money?

No. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Is it your interest that your father’s friend be punished? Is your point that I want punishment for him or that is not your interest? Your interest is money or punishment?

My interest is not only money. It is my long-term savings I would have made over the period of years.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Yes, that is the same point, you want money.

This is just a representation of the youth on the exploits we are going through under these politicians who ask favours in return of jobs. So, I am just a representative of the youth.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: So, you have come to represent the youth in making this complaint?

Atually say, yes. If there are other youths out there who have not---

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: So, you have come here on behalf of the youths?

Sorry. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You have come here on behalf of other youths? Please, answer my question yes or no.

It is both. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Your tears this afternoon is also for the rest of the youth.

It was my life time savings. It is for the baby I lost through this process.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Now, let us look at Page 15 of the Deputy Governor’s bundle which is your letter of complaint.

Which page? The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Page 15 of that same bundle. On page 15, you have said the only interest --- Are you on page 15?

This one? The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Yes, that one. You said I have written to you because the Deputy Governor is acting with impunity. I believe as a Member of the County Assembly you are in a position to assist me by disciplining him through the County Assembly.

All you have come to do is to punish him. You are not even interested in your money and saloon. You are only interested in him being punished. Is it not?

Punishing him means it is a refund and to see-- The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Have you asked for any refund in any of your affidavit or statement?

I actually wrote to him to get a refund complaining of the money he took from me.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: I will move on because I just want to use --- The last thing I want to explore before I hand over to my colleague is page 13. If you could go to page 13, kindly the second paragraph.

Page 13 of the Deputy Governor’s bundle hon. Members. Are you there at page 13? At paragraph two, you said the brief facts are that in April last year 2023, my father relayed some information he had received from the Deputy Governor about an advert on Gusii Water and Sanitation Company Limited (GWASCO) . You can see that?

It is on page?

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): It is on page 13. Your letter of 19th December. I am inviting you to paragraph two. Are you at paragraph two on the brief facts? Are you there?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Okay. Could you confirm this is what you wrote? The brief facts are that in April last year 2023, my father relayed some information he had received from the Deputy Governor. You can see?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Now, this letter was written when?

I wrote this letter to--- The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You wrote this letter when?

December. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: 19th December?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: So, taking paragraph two for its full meaning; it means you wrote this letter last year, 2022?

Sorry. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Taking this paragraph two for its full meaning, it means the brief facts that of April last year which is

I think there was a mistake in typing. It was the same year.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: This is a mistake?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: So, you are telling this assembly, this should have read brief facts of this year, 2023?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Who wrote this letter? You or Hon. Siocha?

I am the one who wrote. He told me to write a formal complaint.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: I put it to you that it is true that this letter was backdated to all events. Did Hon. Siocha come to you and said, we are looking on behalf of the Governor for a way to remove the Deputy Governor and we know you have an issue with him? Could you please do a complaint and then the two of you backdated the letter to 2023 when we were already living in the year 2024?

Hon. Members, there was no backdating. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You deny that you are not a weaponized youth?

Yes.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Okay. Now, since you said that, I want us to go to page 14. I would like us to look at paragraph C. Are you at paragraph C?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: At paragraph

(C)

, you said Kshs50,000 on 28th May though my Mpesa and then after that statement you said, annexed hereto and marked DMM4 is true copy of my M-pesa statement printout reflecting the said transaction. Can you see that?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Is that correct?

Yes, I attached my Mpesa statement. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You attached it to the letter of 19th December, 2023.

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You had a M-pesa statement on 19th December, which you attached and sent to hon. Siocha. Is it not?

The one I sent to hon. Siocha. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: The one we are relying on in this Senate. Is it not?

I gave this statement to Hon. Siocha. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Let us look at the annexure then. I would like us to go to page 21 of that same bundle; the Deputy Governor’s bundle. Are you at page 21?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Is it true that the date of obtaining this Mpesa statement was 29th January, 2024 as we said a few minutes ago in my cross examination?

It is true this is --- The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: It was on 29th April?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: When you are saying you are attaching it and it is December, 2023 this Mpesa did not exist, did it?

First, I gave the Mpesa transaction. The first one I printed through Safaricom. Again, he called me and said he had misplaced the statement.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: I put it to you that you are lying.

I am not lying. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You are not lying?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Where is that statement you had as at December, 2023?

I gave to Hon. Siocha. When I made a formal complaint, I attached my Mpesa statement, interview application and all those.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): You are saying you gave hon. Siocha a Mpesa statement that existed as at 19th December, 2023 and it is not this one?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: This is not the annexure you put there? It is not the annexure you gave hon. Siocha?

This is another one that I printed again. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: That other that you had you have not presented it anywhere, or have you? It is nowhere in the whole of your case. Is it?

I told you the first one I gave to hon. Siocha. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Then hon. Siocha frustrated your case by doing that. I put it to you again that the truth of it is that you wrote this letter in post 29th January, 2024.You carelessly said I am enclosing an M-pesa statement, which then belly up your case by showing that, indeed, you are deep into the year 2024.

That is not true. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: This statement, the one dated 19th December, by yourself and stamped by Hon. Siocha on 21st February, is back dated.

I am not getting the whole sense in it, because I told you---

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: All I am saying is that you wrote a letter dated 19th December and enclosed an M-pesa statement, which turns out to have been on dated 29th January, 2024. That is long after 19th December. That means that you did not have that M-pesa statement on 19th December.

That is why I told you--- The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Which in effect means you wrote this letter after 29th January, 2024. Both yourself and Hon. Siocha backdated it to 19th December and prepared a stamp with hon. Siocha dated 21st December, 2023.

That is not true.

Sen. Orwoba, what is your intervention on this?

Counsel, just hold on.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I wanted to intervene when the Senior Counsel was there. Since we are following the proceedings, I feel that they are not allowing the witness to answer. Can they allow the witness to answer because we are also following? We are not getting the---They are badgering the witness.

That is past. The Senior Counsel has already concluded with the witness.

Counsel, proceed and ask your questions. Sen. Orwoba: Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, before counsel addresses you, we were cautioned that we have four hours. For guidance purposes, do our four hours include the cross-examination session and time consumed?

Yes, Counsel for the County Assembly. Remember, the directions given was that you have been given four hours wholesome. That means it is inclusive of your examination-in-chief, cross examination and re-examination. You started at 3.30 p.m. and you have done almost two hours of your time.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: To that effect, will there be equality of arms, so that the defense does not eat into our time, because that could be their strategy as well. I am guided by your direction. We still have five more witnesses. Could we get direction as to how we will get equality of arms in that respect?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, before counsel addresses you, we were cautioned that we have four hours. For guidance purposes, do our four hours include the cross-examination session and time consumed?

Yes, Counsel for the County Assembly. Remember, the directions given was that you have been given four hours wholesome. That means it is inclusive of your examination-in-chief, cross examination and re-examination. You started at 3.30 p.m. and you have done almost two hours of your time.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: To that effect, will there be equality of arms, so that the defense does not eat into our time, because that could be their strategy as well. I am guided by your direction. We still have five more witnesses. Could we get direction as to how we will get equality of arms in that respect?

Proceed, mindful of the time that is provided for the County Assembly as well as the defense. We will deal with it as we progress.

Sen. Wafula, proceed.

Asante sana, Bw. Spika wa Muda. Ni lazima tupate mwelekeo. Sio vyema Maseneta waliopo hapa kuchukua nafasi kwamba ni mawakili ama wawakilishi wa washukiwa ama washtakiwa katika masuala haya. Waache kesi iendelee jinsi inavyopaswa kuendelea.

Sen. Wafula, resume your seat. Proceed, Sen. Sifuna.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I do not know if in the programme, there was specification of the amount of time to be taken in cross-examination, so that we have a fair idea of how much time is left for cross-examination. I am sure that even the counsel of the Deputy Governor would want to know how much time he is playing with.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, Members of the House, for the record, I am Kelvin Michuki, appearing for the Deputy Governor.

Good afternoon, Mr. Misati.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, Members of the House, for the record, I am Kelvin Michuki, appearing for the Deputy Governor.

Good afternoon, Mr. Misati.

Good afternoon to you.

I am a resident of Nyamira County. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: If someone was to tell us you are a resident of Nyaribari Chache, that would be a lie?

It will be a lie. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: If Mr. Siochi who moved the Motion at the County Assembly was to say you are a member of his ward, that would be a lie.

It will be a lie. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You have indicated that you were working and running businesses in Nairobi City County?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: When did you move back to Nyamira?

After I did my interview. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Was it in April or March?

It was the month of April, 2023. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: When did you meet the Deputy Governor?

I met him at his home on 28th May. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: And that was the first time that you met the Deputy Governor when you went to his place?

That was the first time I had gone to his place, but I had met him severally before.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Was this the first time you went with your brothers and your father at his place?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: How long had you been in Nairobi before that?

Mr. Dennis Mokaya Misati: For a period of 13 years. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Since the Deputy Governor came into office, you have been a resident in Nairobi?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: So you cannot state how often your father visited the Deputy Governor at his place?

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): So, you cannot say whether that was a regular occurrence or not.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): So, you cannot say whether that was a regular occurrence or not.

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You have indicated that you were employed by a corporation known as Together as One. Have you provided any proof of this fact?

No. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Was the money that you utilised to invest in your salon sourced from your employment or gambling activities?

It was from my salon business. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: I will go back to the issue of moving to Nyamira in April. This was before you learnt of this job at Gusii Water and Sewerage Company

(GWASCO)

?

I relocated to Nyamira after learning about the position.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: When did you apply for this particular job?

It was in early April. After I made the application, I did the interview, then I came back to Nairobi and moved back.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: There is your sales agreement of your saloon. You can refer to that.

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: It is in your bundle; not that bundle, the other bundle. When was this agreement made?

At Ruai. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: What page is that, just for the House to be aware?

Page 256. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: The agreement is dated at the bottom?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Which dates?

20th April. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: 20th April 2023?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: When you sold your salon, did you apply for the job?

There was a communication that the advertisements will be out so I should prepare for an interview.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Had you even learnt of this job at that time?

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): I will take you to your statements. Still on Volume one of the County Assembly’s bundle, page 248. I would like you to read for the House paragraph six.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): I will take you to your statements. Still on Volume one of the County Assembly’s bundle, page 248. I would like you to read for the House paragraph six.

On Friday 21st April, 2023, while I was working with a company known as Together as One Investment Limited microfinance as a marketer, my father brought to my attention the advertisement for job vacancies with GWASCO on its website. I downloaded the advertisement and applied for the post of commercial manager.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: So, when you father brought it to your attention on the 21st that there is a job at GWASCO, had you already agreed and sold your salon?

There was an earlier communication that I should prepare.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: We go with what is on the record. According to the record, you had already sold your salon.

We had agreed, but had not sold the salon. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: An agreement to do what?

To sell.

Counsel, for purposes of housekeeping and timekeeping as well, the County Assembly had been allocated four hours. We have so far done 52 minutes in examination-in-chief and cross-examination has taken 60 minutes. We are yet to deal with three examinations.

Going forward, Counsel Michuki remember, if I heard right, the Senior Counsel Katwa indicated that you will take 10 minutes. I believe you will be done with your cross-examination hopefully in the next five minutes. This is so that we embark on a re- exam and rework the timelines going forward with the remainder of the witnesses. Hopefully, you will close on that part in the next five minutes.

Before I give you back the microphone, Sen. Omogeni, you may have the Floor.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, you have dealt with part of the issue that I wanted to draw to your attention to.

We have done a number of impeachments in Plenary and what normally happens from the Chair is that you give guidance to the amount of time that will be spent on cross- examinations. You know, this is a time-bound proceeding. We only have two days. If the defence is allowed to cross-examine for the entire of this evening, we will not have the benefit of taking evidence from the other witnesses.

For example, on what is happening, Counsel Katwa did very well. He took us through the agreement and made reference to the dates. The counsel is again taking us back to the same agreement and repeating the same questions. I plead that you give guidance for full compliance on the time the defence should take for cross-examination so that we make progress.

purposes of proceeding, Counsel Michuki, you should be closing in the next five minutes. I will give directives to your next witness. This must have been your star witness that is why this much time has been taken.

Proceed to conclude. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, and the Senior Counsel, we are guided.

Mr. Misati, we shall move from that point and move to a quite emotive issue it seemed.

In your evidence, you raised an issue that is neither in your statements or in the Motion that was moved in the County Assembly. The issue about your wife who was expecting having a miscarriage. Can you confirm to the House that this was not in your complaint to Hon. Siochi?

purposes of proceeding, Counsel Michuki, you should be closing in the next five minutes. I will give directives to your next witness. This must have been your star witness that is why this much time has been taken.

Proceed to conclude. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, and the Senior Counsel, we are guided.

Mr. Misati, we shall move from that point and move to a quite emotive issue it seemed.

In your evidence, you raised an issue that is neither in your statements or in the Motion that was moved in the County Assembly. The issue about your wife who was expecting having a miscarriage. Can you confirm to the House that this was not in your complaint to Hon. Siochi?

I had explained to him. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Is it in that letter that we have?

It was not in the letter. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Is it in the Motion that was moved at the County Assembly?

I am not aware, but I thought his was more of a personal family issue.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You have raised it before this tribunal so we have to go through it.

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Have you put before this honourable House any documents to support this fact?

No, I have not because it took place in Kisii. I was not able to get the documents.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Can you at least give us a timeline on when it happened?

It was in August last year. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You have indicated that you made a statement to the EACC.

Yes, I did. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: I will take you to the follow-up that we have, the one you were referred to by Mr. Katwa, just for confirmation purposes. There is nothing else you have placed before this tribunal or sent to hon. Siochi with regard to the EACC?

I made a complaint to the EACC when I came here in January.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Nothing has been placed before this House except that follow-up letter.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): You also testified that Lucy Wahito was called to record a statement at EACC according to your knowledge.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): You also testified that Lucy Wahito was called to record a statement at EACC according to your knowledge.

Yes, I did. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: From what source did you get this information?

I had made a complaint to EACC. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Where did you get the information that Lucy had been called to EACC to record a statement?

Through the communication I got from EACC. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Did you get a communication from the EACC?

Yes, there is a lady who called me after I had submitted my ---

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: What was the name of this lady? Is this another unknown person?

I cannot remember the exact name but ---- The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: So, this is another nameless unknown person from EACC?

We move to the money that you paid. The transactions happened on the 28th May?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Was this before or after you were shortlisted?

It was after I was shortlisted. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Was this before or after or you were interviewed?

After I was interviewed.

I did not call it a bribe earlier on. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: A facilitation to facilitate a process that had already occurred.

The nod should go on record. You have not said yes.

Yes.

That must be your conclusion. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I am remaining with just two questions.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): I can see I have a few seconds left.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): I can see I have a few seconds left.

That is why I am telling you that this must be your last question.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Mr. Misati.

Yes, Sir. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You explained that the reason you went with your father to this meeting was to act as a witness to the facilitation fee being paid.

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Were your brothers who you also say were there also witnesses?

This was my money--- The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: No, I am not asking you whose money it was. Were your brothers also witnesses to this facilitation fee?

Yes, they were present.

I have not. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Are you afraid they will say something different?

Sorry. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Are you afraid that they will say something different or side with your father and say that that was his money?

I do not know the communication, but I took it at a personal level.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: This is my last question. The follow up that we discussed from the EACC, at page 16 of the Deputy Governor's

(DG's)

bundle, can you see that letter?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: When was it received at the EACC?

It was written on 20th February. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: 20th February of which year?

2024, this year. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Was it after the Motion had already been moved at the County Assembly?

Yes. I cannot tell the particulars of the issues. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Okay. Thank you. Mr. Misati.

Yes. I cannot tell the particulars of the issues. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Okay. Thank you. Mr. Misati.

Mr. Ndegwa, we need to guide you in terms of time. How much time do you need for---

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for re-examination, we will take cumulatively a total of about six minutes.

Proceed, then we will guide on the subsequent witnesses.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Dennis, do you recall being asked a question why your mother was sending the money to you?

Yes, I remember. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Have you heard the allegation that this was a debt that was being paid?

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: You have also confirmed that the Deputy Governor and your father had the traditions of sending money to each other previously, right?

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Were you involved in those transactions before?

No. I was not. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Can you confirm that this is the only transaction that you are involved?

Yes, this was the first and the only one that I was involved in.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Can you confirm that the purpose of which you are involved is because the matter related directly to you in search of a job?

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Confirm that the facilitation fee was sought by the Deputy Governor.

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Further confirm that, it is your father who told you that the Deputy Governor has placed a demand for purposes of securing that job?

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Further confirm that, it is your father who told you to send the Kshs200,000 to Mr. Monda?

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: You have been asked and taken through the Statement about the gambling. Right?

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: You have been asked and taken through the Statement about the gambling. Right?

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Did the gambling come before you sold the salon or after?

It was after I sold the salon. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: That is a confirmation that Dr. Monda rendered you destitute.

Yes, it is true. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: I will take you, then I yield to Mr. Mutuma. Hon. Senators, I am referring to our bundle of documents. The big book, volume I, page 189.

As they open page 189, do you recall, a question was put to you as, between the Deputy Governor and your father who approached who?

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Are you at page 189?

Yes, I am there. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Can you see where we have Mr. Katwa Kigen asking questions and where you have the Hon. Deputy Governor answering?

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: I want you to read the paragraph that begins, “Mr. Speaker, just as a good friend, Mr. Joseph Misati and I, somewhere in April, I was made to know that there is an advert---

Please read that paragraph.

It reads, “Mr. Speaker, just as good friends--- The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, that is the HANSARD for 29th February, 2023 that took place at the County Assembly of Kisii. What is the Deputy Governor saying in that Statement?

It says- “Mr. Speaker, just as good friends, Mr. Joseph Misati and I, somewhere in April, I was made to know that there is an advert that has come up at GWASCO and Misati as a friend would ask me that his son has also tendered his application. Is it possible for him to be assisted to get a job?”

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Who is making that averment? Is it you, your father, or the Deputy Governor?

It is the Deputy Governor. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Is he confirming that he was involved in search of that job in your favour?

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Njiru Ndegwa): Is he confirming that, Mr. Misati, your father, is the one who approached him for the purpose of that job?

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Njiru Ndegwa): Is he confirming that, Mr. Misati, your father, is the one who approached him for the purpose of that job?

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Who is the issue being referred to as ‘son’ in these circumstances?

I am the son. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: You were put to task to explain why you cried and you said that you cried because of your money.

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Is there any other reason that made you cry?

Yes. I lost my baby. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: While you are at that stand, did you hear the Speaker direct that the Serjeant-at-Arms does take charge of another cry that came from the Gallery?

I am sorry for that, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, in your directions for re-examination, the direction is that re-examination be targeted at issues that were canvassed in the evidence-in-chief. We did not make any reference of anybody in the Gallery or the Serjeant-at-Arms. That issue should not be introduced.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir---

Very well, Mr. Ndegwa--- The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, with due respect to the Senior Counsel, if you may---

Listen, the Chair is on the microphone. Guide your witness. Do proper exam. You are a practitioner.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I believe counsel having practised for many years than I have, knows that facts initio or facts not initio can become an issue? There is a question as to why the cry?

Dennis, I am sorry for that ordeal. Do you connect the loss of your child by any means to the proceedings, or to whatever happened between you and the Deputy Governor?

Yes, I do. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Finally, Dennis, as I yield. At the time, the Deputy Governor sought for this money had recruitment been made?

It had not yet. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: When was the interview?

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Njiru Ndegwa): When was the recruitment?

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Njiru Ndegwa): When was the recruitment?

It was done later, around August-September? The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Around July?

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I yield to Mr. Mutuma.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Thank you, my friend. Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for the opportunity. I have three questions.

One, Mr. Dennis Misati, during the cross-examination, you were put to task to explain why in your Statement, you said that money was transacted from your father's Mpesa to the Deputy Governor's Mpesa, yet evidence shows that it came from Co- operative Bank.

Can you explain whether this transaction was a mobile banking transaction, or was it a direct withdrawal from Co-operative Bank? What was the nature of that transaction?

I think it was a mobile banking transaction. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Then, whether it was from Mpesa or not, it is your father's gadget that was used to transact.

Yes, it was my father's. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Thank you. You have also been accused of being a criminal who bribes.

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Offering a bribe is a crime.

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: What motivated you to offer, what you are now calling facilitation? Was it because you had a criminal mentality, or what was the motivating factor? What drove you to give the Kshs800,000?

It was the urgency to get a decent employment. Like any other youth out there, we always hope for the best. If you get decent employment, that is for the betterment of the family.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: You have been accused of being a gambler and we have seen that occasionally you gamble spending a negligible amount of money in gambling. Is it in your nature to gamble?

No. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: What led you to begin gambling?

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Thank you. That is all, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. We wish to dispense with this witness at this moment and call our next witness.

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Thank you. That is all, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. We wish to dispense with this witness at this moment and call our next witness.

Witness, you may--- Yes,

Proceed, Sen. Onyonka.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, this is a question I want to ask the young gentleman. I realised that all the transactions you were making were done at night. Was there a reason? Why that was the case?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the Deputy Governor called us to his home between seven heading to eight. That was when we went to his home. We sat there until 9.00 p.m. and then left his home.

Proceed, Sen. Onyonka.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, this is a question I want to ask the young gentleman. I realised that all the transactions you were making were done at night. Was there a reason? Why that was the case?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the Deputy Governor called us to his home between seven heading to eight. That was when we went to his home. We sat there until 9.00 p.m. and then left his home.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I will stay with that line of questioning to Senior Counsel Katwa Kigen. Supposing there is an admission on the part of the witness, that indeed he participated in a criminal activity, would that absolve the Deputy Governor from liability of a similar crime?

Secondly, you said the reason you are pushing that line of gambling is to demonstrate before this House that the witness cannot be relied on and that he has a history of using easy ways to get money. Is it then your admission that we should never expect any truth from a person who gambles?

Yes, Senior Counsel Katwa Kigen.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we make no admission. For argument’s sake, if that was the case and the witness was to say that in his state of mind, he gave out the amount deeming it to be a bribe, then there is no corresponding state of mind on the part of the Deputy Governor that he was receiving a bribe.

The Deputy Governor was receiving a refund of money he had given to the parents of my friend, Dennis. On the part of the Deputy Governor, his position is that he was receiving a refund of his money. If on the part of the state of the witness’ mind is that

Fair enough. Take your seat, Senior Counsel Katwa Kigen. Let us listen to Sen. Wambua.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I will stay with that line of questioning to Senior Counsel Katwa Kigen. Supposing there is an admission on the part of the witness, that indeed he participated in a criminal activity, would that absolve the Deputy Governor from liability of a similar crime?

Secondly, you said the reason you are pushing that line of gambling is to demonstrate before this House that the witness cannot be relied on and that he has a history of using easy ways to get money. Is it then your admission that we should never expect any truth from a person who gambles?

Yes, Senior Counsel Katwa Kigen.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we make no admission. For argument’s sake, if that was the case and the witness was to say that in his state of mind, he gave out the amount deeming it to be a bribe, then there is no corresponding state of mind on the part of the Deputy Governor that he was receiving a bribe.

The Deputy Governor was receiving a refund of money he had given to the parents of my friend, Dennis. On the part of the Deputy Governor, his position is that he was receiving a refund of his money. If on the part of the state of the witness’ mind is that

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, on humanitarian ground, it is very sad and emotional that my dad is against the reality and the truth. He is colluding with somebody who took my money. He is calling for a refund instead of what we call facilitation. It is not a good feeling as a son.

The second question you asked is if the facilitation I was asked was needed and led me get the job, why would I be here? I would be comfortably be working in the office.

Thank you.

Hon. Members, my dashboard is full. You are all aware this is a time bound proceeding and we must progress. How do we progress? I will not allow any additional Member to seek any clarification. We will have a period within which to get those confirmations at our time.

I will, therefore, direct that the witness can step down. Thank you very much, Dennis.

Counsel, proceed to call your next witness. As you prepare to call the witness, you will indicate the time that you will require for that particular witness so that we cap the time you will take the examination-in-chief as well as cross-examination. For purposes of time, it is now 12 minutes past 6 p.m.

You have taken with your first witness over two hours 30 minutes. What is remaining is one hour and 20 minutes. I need to know how much time you will require for your next witness.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, thank you for that guidance. For purpose of this witness who was the Mover of the Motion, we will need approximately 30 minutes for examine chief.

Senior Counsel, Mr. Katwa Kigen. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: May we request for equal time for cross-examination?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, on humanitarian ground, it is very sad and emotional that my dad is against the reality and the truth. He is colluding with somebody who took my money. He is calling for a refund instead of what we call facilitation. It is not a good feeling as a son.

The second question you asked is if the facilitation I was asked was needed and led me get the job, why would I be here? I would be comfortably be working in the office.

Thank you.

Hon. Members, my dashboard is full. You are all aware this is a time bound proceeding and we must progress. How do we progress? I will not allow any additional Member to seek any clarification. We will have a period within which to get those confirmations at our time.

I will, therefore, direct that the witness can step down. Thank you very much, Dennis.

Counsel, proceed to call your next witness. As you prepare to call the witness, you will indicate the time that you will require for that particular witness so that we cap the time you will take the examination-in-chief as well as cross-examination. For purposes of time, it is now 12 minutes past 6 p.m.

You have taken with your first witness over two hours 30 minutes. What is remaining is one hour and 20 minutes. I need to know how much time you will require for your next witness.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, thank you for that guidance. For purpose of this witness who was the Mover of the Motion, we will need approximately 30 minutes for examine chief.

Senior Counsel, Mr. Katwa Kigen. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: May we request for equal time for cross-examination?

My name is Wycliff Siocha Gesongori. I am an elected Member of County Assembly (MCA) for Kisii County Assembly representing the people of Ichuni Ward. I am a financial manager, a banker by profession and the Chairperson of the Committee on Implementation in the County Assembly of Kisii. I am also a Member of the Committee on Health and also Liaison Committee, a family man and a father.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: What was your role in respect to this Motion?

I was the Mover. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: You were the Mover of the Motion?

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: You have charged the Deputy Governor with offenses ranging from gross violation of the Constitution, misconduct and violation of the written law and abuse of office. Is that it?

Yes, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Why have you placed a charge or why have you preferred the said charges? If you were to begin with the charge. Perhaps before we go to the charges, how were you seized of these matters?

The genesis of the Motion before you was as a result of a complaint letter I received from Mr. Dennis Misati.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr.Njiru Ndegwa) : When is the date of the complaint letter?

The complaint letter was received in my office on 21st of December and was addressed to me. It was written by Mr. Dennis Misati.

Yes, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Why have you placed a charge or why have you preferred the said charges? If you were to begin with the charge. Perhaps before we go to the charges, how were you seized of these matters?

The genesis of the Motion before you was as a result of a complaint letter I received from Mr. Dennis Misati.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr.Njiru Ndegwa) : When is the date of the complaint letter?

The complaint letter was received in my office on 21st of December and was addressed to me. It was written by Mr. Dennis Misati.

Counsel Ndegwa, hold on. Sen. Cheptumo, you know how to catch the eye of the Chair. What is your point of intervention?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, I do not intend to interrupt the proceedings, but the witness should rely on his affidavit. He has not been able to confirm to the House that he is relying on the affidavit in his evidence. That is very important.

Sen. Cheptumo, the witness is led by a counsel. I do not expect you to direct on how he wants. Let him proceed.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. Speaker, Sir, thank you for the protection.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I had said that the genesis of the Motion before this Senate was as a result of the letter I received from Mr. Dennis Misati. It is dated 19th but it was received in my office on 21st December,2023.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Let us go to the first charge that appears at page 15 of the bundle of document by the County Assembly. That is the Motion. Are you there?

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: You have charged him for violating the Constitution; Article 73, Article 74 and Article 75. Yes?

That is true. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Did you conduct any preliminary investigations before?

Yes, I did. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: What was revealed in your investigation?

In my investigation, what was revealed was that, indeed, there was canvasing between the Deputy Governor involving the family of one Joseph Misati and the Chief Executive Officer (CEO) for the GWASCO.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: What were the canvasing for?

First, there is a meeting that was initiated by the Deputy Governor which took place in his home and the members present in that meeting were the family members of one Joseph Misati. Also present in that meeting was one Dennis Misati who had already done an interview with GWASCO for the position of commercial manager.

Yes, I did. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: What was revealed in your investigation?

In my investigation, what was revealed was that, indeed, there was canvasing between the Deputy Governor involving the family of one Joseph Misati and the Chief Executive Officer (CEO) for the GWASCO.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: What were the canvasing for?

First, there is a meeting that was initiated by the Deputy Governor which took place in his home and the members present in that meeting were the family members of one Joseph Misati. Also present in that meeting was one Dennis Misati who had already done an interview with GWASCO for the position of commercial manager.

I was there. I heard him personally say. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Did you witness him confirming that he approached both the Chief Executive Officer

(CEO)

of the GWASCO?

Yes, I heard him confirm. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: On page 189 of the bundle of documents, what document is that?

That is the HANSARD report for the Kisii County Assembly proceedings.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: What is the Deputy Governor saying in the last paragraph?

I was there. I heard him personally say. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Did you witness him confirming that he approached both the Chief Executive Officer

(CEO)

of the GWASCO?

Yes, I heard him confirm. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: On page 189 of the bundle of documents, what document is that?

That is the HANSARD report for the Kisii County Assembly proceedings.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: What is the Deputy Governor saying in the last paragraph?

Yes, I met her. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: If yes, what did you confirm that she does at Kisii County?

I confirmed that she is the Managing Director for the GWASCO.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Did you confirm that she was involved in these acts of bribery?

Yes, I confirmed because she revealed to me that the Deputy Governor summoned her to his office and made it known to her that he had a friend who has a son who is interested in the position of the Commercial Manager, which had already been put on the dailies and that the application process was ongoing.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Did you confirm whether Lucy, prior to the sending of the money, had met the Deputy Governor?

Yes, they had met. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Under what circumstances did Lucy disclose to you that they met?

Upon receiving the letter from one Dennis Misati, I started doing my own investigations to ascertain the whole material facts that had been given to me by Dennis Mr. Joseph Misati.

That prompted me to visit the office of the Managing Director in pursuit of getting all the information and exactly the transaction that involved them between the Deputy Governor and herself. That is Lucy.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: So, you confirm that the Deputy Governor did approach one Lucy in favour of a job?

Yes, he did and summoned her to his office. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Again confirm at page 189 of the same bundle of documents by the County Assembly, the last paragraph where the Deputy Governor is testifying.

Yes? The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Were you at the County Assembly at that particular time?

Yes, I was present. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Kindly lead out to the hon. Senators as to what the Deputy Governor indicated on the record.

Yes, he did and summoned her to his office. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Again confirm at page 189 of the same bundle of documents by the County Assembly, the last paragraph where the Deputy Governor is testifying.

Yes? The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Were you at the County Assembly at that particular time?

Yes, I was present. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Kindly lead out to the hon. Senators as to what the Deputy Governor indicated on the record.

It was after the interview. It was sent on 28 May, around 9 a.m.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: I want you to have a look at the Deputy Governor's defense.

The money was sent to Lucy because it is on page 99 of the DGs submission. The money was sent to one Lucy Wahito on 28th May, 2023, at 21.24.13. It was after a few minutes past 2100 hrs.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Did she confirm to you what she immediately did after the receipt of the saved monies?

Upon receipt of the money, the Deputy Governor did not call her. However, on the morning of 29th , the one Lucy called the Deputy Governor. Upon calling the Deputy Governor, the Deputy Governor confirmed to her that the sent amount was in reference to the discussions they had with her in his office.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Is Lucy one of the witnesses that you have lined up for cross-examination?

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Now, allow me to lead you to page four of the bundle of documents by the Deputy Governor. Most importantly, paragraph 13. Are you there?

Yes, I am there. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: At page 13, is the Deputy Governor confirming that they have been friends with one Joseph Misati for over 30 years?

Yes, he is confirming that.

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Now, allow me to lead you to page four of the bundle of documents by the Deputy Governor. Most importantly, paragraph 13. Are you there?

Yes, I am there. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: At page 13, is the Deputy Governor confirming that they have been friends with one Joseph Misati for over 30 years?

Yes, he is confirming that.

Yes, he does confirm. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Permit me to take you to paragraph eight of the said bundle of document by the Deputy Governor appearing on page 3. Are you at paragraph 8?

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Can you confirm that you were treated with malice and ill feeling at the time you actuated this Motion against the Deputy Governor? Before that please confirm that you are the Member of the County Assembly

(MCA)

referred to in paragraph 8.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, and for the record, it is immoral---

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Please confirm that you are the MCA referred to.

I confirm that I am the MCA referred to. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Have you internalized those allegations contained therein?

I have internalized all of them. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Have you seen that the Deputy Governor indicates and alleges that you actuated by malice and ill will against him?

Yes, I have seen. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: He labels you as an extortionist, a person who has insatiable greed for money and that he sent you approximately Kshs40,000 and that he could not cope with your demand for more money.

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: That when the demand ceased you actuated this Motion?

That is what he has said.

Yes, I have seen. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: He labels you as an extortionist, a person who has insatiable greed for money and that he sent you approximately Kshs40,000 and that he could not cope with your demand for more money.

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: That when the demand ceased you actuated this Motion?

That is what he has said.

Yes, I confirm. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Did he ever attend that funeral?

He attended in person. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Do you have evidence?

I have the evidence. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, may I ask that the IT Department plays that video clip which is referred to as “Burial”.

Serjent-at-Arms, please process that video clip to play.

Please play the first one minute and the last one minute.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Who is that speaking?

That is myself speaking and next to me is my wife and those are the children that my aunt left.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I do not know whether all the Members of the Assembly are able to follow that language, or perhaps we need an interpreter

Mr. Ndegwa, what language is that?

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: I guess that is the Kisii Language.

Please play the first one minute and the last one minute.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Who is that speaking?

That is myself speaking and next to me is my wife and those are the children that my aunt left.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I do not know whether all the Members of the Assembly are able to follow that language, or perhaps we need an interpreter

Mr. Ndegwa, what language is that?

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: I guess that is the Kisii Language.

Senior Counsel, that is exactly what the Chair was doing. I am informed that we now have an interpreter who can just be ushered in to run us through the interpretation.

Kindly, replay the clip. Let it start and let us have the interpreter to interpret. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for purposes of expediency, we can play the first one minute and the last one minute.

Mr. Ndegwa, just hold on. What is your point of order, Sen. Onyonka?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, my suggestion would be, because it is allowed under the rules of the House and I do not have the Standing Orders; we could allow the clip that is being played to be taken by the Speaker’s office, allow somebody to interpret it and then it is forwarded to us when we will be doing our review tomorrow morning as we proceed. This is because somebody might interpret---

There is already an interpreter. Hon. Members, we now have an interpreter in the House and for purposes of record and clarity, the interpreter is a Kenya Broadcasting Corporation (KBC) staffer who has been seconded to the Senate and is, therefore, fully entitled to support in interpretation.

I will direct that we run the clip so that as the clip runs, we can get the interpretation from the gentleman who has been ushered in.

Clerk, let us run the clip. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. Speaker, Sir, for expediency, the first minute and the last minute are the ones that are relevant.

Okay, please run the first one minute and the last one minute of the clip

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, my suggestion would be, because it is allowed under the rules of the House and I do not have the Standing Orders; we could allow the clip that is being played to be taken by the Speaker’s office, allow somebody to interpret it and then it is forwarded to us when we will be doing our review tomorrow morning as we proceed. This is because somebody might interpret---

There is already an interpreter. Hon. Members, we now have an interpreter in the House and for purposes of record and clarity, the interpreter is a Kenya Broadcasting Corporation (KBC) staffer who has been seconded to the Senate and is, therefore, fully entitled to support in interpretation.

I will direct that we run the clip so that as the clip runs, we can get the interpretation from the gentleman who has been ushered in.

Clerk, let us run the clip. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. Speaker, Sir, for expediency, the first minute and the last minute are the ones that are relevant.

Okay, please run the first one minute and the last one minute of the clip

Continue with the video clip.

Kindly pause it there for interpretation.

The Interpreter

: Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the Deputy Governor is giving out the Erongori or support that the Governor has sent him, which is Kshs20,000. He is referring it that way because it is being given to the children and he does not know the name to refer the amount to.

Continue with the video clip.

Continue with the video clip.

Kindly pause it there for interpretation.

The Interpreter

: Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the Deputy Governor is giving out the Erongori or support that the Governor has sent him, which is Kshs20,000. He is referring it that way because it is being given to the children and he does not know the name to refer the amount to.

Continue with the video clip.

Pardon me, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I am not an expert in translating from Gusii to English. However, I want you to allow me to seek one clarification from my brother, Mr. Isaac Agwata.

I want him to confirm from the video clip that was played whether the Deputy Governor is saying that they had assisted the MCA in preparation of the funeral, which should be distinguished from the Erongori that he had brought to the funeral.

I want him to confirm whether that was made in the Deputy Governor’s speech. The Interpreter

: Yes. He indicated that they had given him support. Whatever he was giving that day was Erongori and not support.

Thank you, Mr. Agwata, you are released.

Mr. Ndegwa, you may proceed and also take note of the time. I am sure you have been alerted to the minutes you have.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I shall be making an application for the restoration of the time we have wasted while looking for the interpreter.

We did not waste time. We will take care of the amount of time. You will be accommodated.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: We are most obliged. Okay, when was this funeral?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, it was in the month of May.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Which date to be exact if you can remember?

She died around the 5th May, so the funeral run to the 20th May.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Njiru Ndegwa) : You received this money in three bunches?

Yes

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, it was in the month of May.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Which date to be exact if you can remember?

She died around the 5th May, so the funeral run to the 20th May.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Njiru Ndegwa) : You received this money in three bunches?

Yes

When I was escorting the Deputy Governor out of the funeral, he promised to send some money towards the children’s kitty. They had told me that the children who had been left were very young---

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Is that the money that was being sent?

Yes, that is the money that he sent. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Therefore, is it the habit of the Deputy Governor to deny the truth and paint the person speaking the truth as liars?

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: During the proceedings of this impeachment, did you conduct public participation.

Yes, we conducted it as an Assembly. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: What forms did the public participation take?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, they were conducted at the sub-county and ward level.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: What forms did they take? Did you have people submit memoranda?

There were people submitting memoranda and there were those who came for the physical meetings at the various venues that had been spelled out by---

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: What was the purpose of the public participation?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, it was to get the opinion of the electorate of Kisii County on this issue that was before the Assembly.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Did you get that feedback?

Yes, we got the feedback. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: What was the nature of the feedback?

The nature of the feedback was through written memoranda and physical submissions when the meetings were being conducted.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, it was to get the opinion of the electorate of Kisii County on this issue that was before the Assembly.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Did you get that feedback?

Yes, we got the feedback. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: What was the nature of the feedback?

The nature of the feedback was through written memoranda and physical submissions when the meetings were being conducted.

As you do that, just for your comfort, whenever we have such interventions, your time does not move. However, for guidance’s sake, you have three minutes to conclude on your examination.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I am most obliged. Let us proceed to video Clip No.2.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I think we still need the interpreter.

Is there any other clip that you shall require interpretation on?

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Yes, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

Let us then have the interpreter, Mr. Agwata, here until such a time when we will be done with him.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: We are most guided.

was ushered into the Chamber) Now that he is back, kindly play clip No. 1.

What is she saying? The Interpreter

: I have not gotten her name.

She is called Irene, Mama wa mutura.

The Interpreter

: She is Irene and she is asking that they have given this position to hon. Monda. Hon. Monda started asking for bribes. She is selling

Is there any other clip that you shall require interpretation on?

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Yes, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

The Interpreter (Mr. Isaac Agwata): Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Njiru Ndegwa): Who is he? The Interpreter (Mr. Isaac Agwata):

Kindly recap what you have said.

mutura. She is asking whether she can take the children to school if Dr. Monda is asking for a bribe to give a bursary.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Njiru Ndegwa): Play the next clip.

The Interpreter (Mr. Isaac Agwata): Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Njiru Ndegwa): Who is he? The Interpreter (Mr. Isaac Agwata):

Yes, he swore an affidavit. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Is that the affidavit appearing on page 283 of the bundle of documents by the county assembly? Volume 1?

It is the one appearing. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Is he confirming those assertions and allegations in his affidavit?

Yes, he is. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Is he confirming that the price of land was Kshs500,000, but was negotiated to Kshs200,000?

Yes.

It is the one appearing. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Is he confirming those assertions and allegations in his affidavit?

Yes, he is. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Is he confirming that the price of land was Kshs500,000, but was negotiated to Kshs200,000?

Yes.

The County Assembly did two dailies; that is in the Daily Nation and The Standard newspapers inviting the members of the public to appear in different sub-county venues. So, the members of the public had the opportunity to either attend at the sub-county level or ward level. Since, the initiative of going to the ward level was of us as MCAs.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Where was the clip recorded from?

It was recorded in Kesusu, where the sub- county venue for Masaba South public participation was done for.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: I am satisfied with that answer. Let us move to the question of the abuse of office. Yes?

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: You have accused the Deputy Governor of abuse of office. Yes?

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: And that he deployed 20 county enforcement officers to procure an arrest?

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Did you confirm that?

Yes. I confirmed. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Have you lined up a witness to come and confirm that allegation?

Yes. There is a witness already lined up to come and witness.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: What action has the County Assembly, through the oversight mechanism, initiated to confirm the veracity of that position?

It is in one of our departmental Committee on Labour. So, it is an issue that is currently under investigation.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Did you confirm whether or not the 20 officers were appropriately or procedurally deployed by the person in charge of deployment?

Yes. I confirmed. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Have you lined up a witness to come and confirm that allegation?

Yes. There is a witness already lined up to come and witness.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: What action has the County Assembly, through the oversight mechanism, initiated to confirm the veracity of that position?

It is in one of our departmental Committee on Labour. So, it is an issue that is currently under investigation.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Did you confirm whether or not the 20 officers were appropriately or procedurally deployed by the person in charge of deployment?

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Did you confirm that allegation?

I confirmed. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Is that proper application of his role or functions of the Deputy Governor?

It is not proper. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Have you lined up a witness to confirm whether or not all these deployments were procedural?

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Did you summon? How is the witness coming?

The County Assembly of Kisii, through the Senate, requested, Agayo Oyagi, who is the current Acting Director of Enforcement of Kisii County.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Was he a witness at the County Assembly?

He was not a witness. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Finally, what would you want these hon. Senators, to do, in respect to your motion?

Hon. Senators, this was one of the hard decisions that I had to make. For one reason that the Deputy Governor for Kisii, Dr. Robert Monda, is a very close friend of mine and, on the other side, I had this young man who was miserable and had already been duped his money.

So, I had to make a tough decision. I was not only doing this for Mr. Dennis Misati, but for the many jobless poor youths outside there, who have found themselves in the hands of unsuspecting civil servants, public officers and State officers. These people solicit funds from them in the promise that they can be give them jobs, but at the end of the day, they end up not having jobs.

The County Assembly of Kisii, through the Senate, requested, Agayo Oyagi, who is the current Acting Director of Enforcement of Kisii County.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Was he a witness at the County Assembly?

He was not a witness. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Finally, what would you want these hon. Senators, to do, in respect to your motion?

Hon. Senators, this was one of the hard decisions that I had to make. For one reason that the Deputy Governor for Kisii, Dr. Robert Monda, is a very close friend of mine and, on the other side, I had this young man who was miserable and had already been duped his money.

So, I had to make a tough decision. I was not only doing this for Mr. Dennis Misati, but for the many jobless poor youths outside there, who have found themselves in the hands of unsuspecting civil servants, public officers and State officers. These people solicit funds from them in the promise that they can be give them jobs, but at the end of the day, they end up not having jobs.

They are absolutely not related to this proceeding.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: The question of harassment and intimidation by the Deputy Governor towards Mr. Dennis Misati, did you establish these averments?

When Mr. Dennis Misati approached me, I think it was earlier December. He confided in me that his life was in danger. The communication that he relayed to me was from his father and it was being relayed on behalf of the Deputy Governor, when Dennis Misati gave an indication that he was going to record a statement with the EACC.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Are you aware where Mr. Dennis Misati and his wife are currently living?

No. I do not know where they are currently living.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Did you establish how Mr. Dennis Misati raised the Kshs800, 000?

Yes. I spoke with him and he told me he was running a saloon in Ruai. He had been given instructions by his father that by the assurance of the Deputy Governor, that the job was being given to him, some money was needed. Therefore, he sold the businesses because he had to relocate.

He sold his entire household, --- The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Thank you. Did he confirm to you whether or not that transaction had any effect to his family?

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: What did he tell you?

Which transaction, sorry?

Yes. I spoke with him and he told me he was running a saloon in Ruai. He had been given instructions by his father that by the assurance of the Deputy Governor, that the job was being given to him, some money was needed. Therefore, he sold the businesses because he had to relocate.

He sold his entire household, --- The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Thank you. Did he confirm to you whether or not that transaction had any effect to his family?

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: What did he tell you?

Which transaction, sorry?

That is true? The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Thank you.

Additionally, for record purposes, the person who took Dennis’ wife to the hospital is his father.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Confirm that again.

Mr. Ndegwa, you have done 14 minutes outside the time you requested.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: I am well guided. I yield the witness for cross-examination.

Proceed, Mr. Katwa Kigen. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Good evening Mheshimiwa.

Good evening to you, Mr. Katwa Kigen.

Proceed and be mindful of the 20 minutes time that I have allocated you.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. It is your testimony that you indeed conducted verification of the allegations that you are bringing against the Deputy Governor.

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: That includes the question of whether or not he received a bribe from Mr. Dennis.

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Whether he sent a bribe to Lucy?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Whether he threatened him?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: He used Kisii County staff?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Whether he sent a bribe to Lucy?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Whether he threatened him?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: He used Kisii County staff?

Yes. I was there. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Eventually, you were there on the 29th when the motion was discussed and the Deputy Governor was afforded the chance to defend himself?

Yes. I was there. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: And a voting was done?

Yes, I was there. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: On that occasion of 29th, did you play these clips of public participation?

No, I did not play them. They were not--- The Counsel for Deputy Governor

: You did not play them, is it not?

The report was provided and tabled before the Assembly for public participation.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: When you were moving your Motion, you did not play them, is it not?

There was a report--- The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Answer my question. When tabling your Motion, you did not play them.

No, I did not play, but it was to be provided by the County Assembly.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Just answer my question. So you did not play them yourself? Do you recall them having been played for the Deputy Governor to see at that time?

No. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: They were not played.

I take it that as you stand here, you are familiar with the County Governments Act and Standing Orders that are relevant.

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Okay. What is your understanding of how a Motion for Impeachment is supposed to be moved?

No, I did not play, but it was to be provided by the County Assembly.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Just answer my question. So you did not play them yourself? Do you recall them having been played for the Deputy Governor to see at that time?

No. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: They were not played.

I take it that as you stand here, you are familiar with the County Governments Act and Standing Orders that are relevant.

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Okay. What is your understanding of how a Motion for Impeachment is supposed to be moved?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Did you comply with Standing Order Nos.194 and 195 of the Kisii County Assembly Standing Orders?

Yes, I complied. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, because of time, I will deal with that in the legal arguments.

I would like you to go to the bundle from the County Government. I would like us to go to page 96. Are you there?

Yes, I am there. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Could you confirm that from pages 96 to 103 are proceedings of 29th where you moved your Motion, voting was done and the Deputy Governor was heard in his defence? Is that correct?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Let us start with page 96. Are you there?

Yes, I am there. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Do you confirm what I have said, that the defence of the Deputy Governor, voting, and moving your Motion was on 29th?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: That heading of “votes and proceedings” is also accurate?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: I would like us to go to the contents of page 103. You can see where your name is? Can you see where it is stated that Hon. Wycliff Siocha moved the Motion?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Hon. Members, I am referring to page 103 of the County Assembly bundle. That is the one that has different colours. The Motion was seconded by Hon. Karen Magara. Can you see that?

Yes, I can see.

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: I would like us to go to the contents of page 103. You can see where your name is? Can you see where it is stated that Hon. Wycliff Siocha moved the Motion?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Hon. Members, I am referring to page 103 of the County Assembly bundle. That is the one that has different colours. The Motion was seconded by Hon. Karen Magara. Can you see that?

Yes, I can see.

It is not correct. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: This contention that the events of 29th entailed moving of a Motion for Adjournment for public participation on 29th is incorrect?

That is what I am saying, counsel. This is not a true position. Probably there was a mix-up of documents because---

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Mheshimiwa, I am the one asking you questions. The HANSARD brought to this Senate says that on 29th, proceedings were adjourned for purposes of going to public participation. Are you saying that this HANSARD is incorrect?

This is not a HANSARD report. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: What is it?

It is part of the Motion that I moved. What I am seeing here is purely a mix-up of documents because the HANSARD report for 29th---

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Which question are you answering?

Let me explain on the question you asked, counsel.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: When you at page 96, it says; the House assembled at 9.000 a.m., proceedings were opened with a word of prayer, then there was a Motion for removal from office, by way of Impeachmen of the Deputy Governor, by Hon. Wycliff Siocha Gesongori.

You can read all that on those pages. There were interventions by various people. On page 103, you confirmed that you moved the Motion as is indicated and Hon. Magara seconded it. So far, that is correct, is it not?

That is correct to that level. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You are saying this is not the HANSARD report?

It is part of the Motion that I moved. What I am seeing here is purely a mix-up of documents because the HANSARD report for 29th---

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Which question are you answering?

Let me explain on the question you asked, counsel.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: When you at page 96, it says; the House assembled at 9.000 a.m., proceedings were opened with a word of prayer, then there was a Motion for removal from office, by way of Impeachmen of the Deputy Governor, by Hon. Wycliff Siocha Gesongori.

You can read all that on those pages. There were interventions by various people. On page 103, you confirmed that you moved the Motion as is indicated and Hon. Magara seconded it. So far, that is correct, is it not?

That is correct to that level. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You are saying this is not the HANSARD report?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: And 53 of you said the Deputy Governor should be impeached and the others said he should not be impeached.

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

:: That happened on 29th, is it not?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: From pages 96 to 103, can you see that report of those events at the County Assembly on that day?

That is why I still insist that there is a mix-up of---

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Please answer my question. Is there a report of the fact that on 29th, voting happened and a resolution was made to impeach the Deputy Governor?

No, it is not there. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: On that second basis, this document is inaccurate, is it not?

It is inaccurate. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: I would like us to move to page 137. Hon. Members, I am still referring to the same bundle by the County Government on the contents of page 137.

Is that a HANSARD report or you still maintain it is not?

That is the HANSARD report. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: May we look at page 137? It says; County Assembly of Kisii, Official Report, Special Sitting. The events of 29th was a Special Sitting for purposes of discussing the impeachment, is it not?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: The Special Sitting was held on 29th February. Could you tell this Senate when the Assembly sat? Which day of the week was it?

Come up again.

That is the HANSARD report. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: May we look at page 137? It says; County Assembly of Kisii, Official Report, Special Sitting. The events of 29th was a Special Sitting for purposes of discussing the impeachment, is it not?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: The Special Sitting was held on 29th February. Could you tell this Senate when the Assembly sat? Which day of the week was it?

Come up again.

No, I am not responsible. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: How do you then know it was typographical?

Because I was there. It was on Thursday and I can remember the accounts and the proceedings that we had in the County Assembly.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: So, when it says it is Tuesday, is that wrong?

That is a typo error. It is wrong. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Then you will agree with me that even when this Senate wants to look at what you did in the County Assembly, it is true that the HANSARD has been manipulated and even the Senate cannot see?

That is not true. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Okay it is not true. Is it true that 29th was on Tuesday and that you sat on Tuesday?

It was not of course. That is a typo error. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: There are other issues I have raised.

Okay, I will move on to a different issue, but the point I am making is that because the 53 of you were very determined to remove the deputy governor, you go as far as manipulating the HANSARD.

No, we are not manipulating the HANSARD and we are not that determined, we are just following the law.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You are not determined; you are desperate. I would like us to move on to the Motion that you moved. We agree that you moved the Motion on the 13th, is it not?

I did not move the Motion, but I gave notice of Motion.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: I apologies, you are right.

Thank you.

No, we are not manipulating the HANSARD and we are not that determined, we are just following the law.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You are not determined; you are desperate. I would like us to move on to the Motion that you moved. We agree that you moved the Motion on the 13th, is it not?

I did not move the Motion, but I gave notice of Motion.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: I apologies, you are right.

Thank you.

That is true. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Now, the first thing I want us to agree is that you issued the notice on 13th?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: As we have already discussed, you eventually managed to move the Motion on 29th and voting was done?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Do you agree on the face of it that 10 days would have expired on 23rd and by 29th when the Motion was being moved, discussed, and voted upon, it was already outside the 10 days?

Of course, it was already outside the 10 days. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Did you say of course?

No, sorry, it is outside the 10 days. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Thank you. Now, I would like you to go to page 3A of that same bundle. These are the Standing Orders upon which you moved the Motion, are they not?

Just a minute. I am not getting the page 3A. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You have gone too far; it is a little back.

These are the Standing Orders under which you moved the Motion. Standing Order No. 60 to 64, is it not?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Now, could we look at Standing Order No. 60

(4)

. Let us start 60

(3)

, it says that-

“A member who has obtained the approval of the Speaker to move a Motion under paragraph one shall give seven days’ notice

calling for impeachment of the governor. Upon expiry of the seven days and after notice is given, the Motion shall be placed in the order paper

and shall be disposed off within three days”.

Do you agree with me that within the intention of that Standing Order, you should have disposed off this Motion within 10 days?

No, sorry, it is outside the 10 days. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Thank you. Now, I would like you to go to page 3A of that same bundle. These are the Standing Orders upon which you moved the Motion, are they not?

Just a minute. I am not getting the page 3A. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You have gone too far; it is a little back.

These are the Standing Orders under which you moved the Motion. Standing Order No. 60 to 64, is it not?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Now, could we look at Standing Order No. 60

(4)

. Let us start 60

(3)

, it says that-

“A member who has obtained the approval of the Speaker to move a Motion under paragraph one shall give seven days’ notice

calling for impeachment of the governor. Upon expiry of the seven days and after notice is given, the Motion shall be placed in the order paper

and shall be disposed off within three days”.

Do you agree with me that within the intention of that Standing Order, you should have disposed off this Motion within 10 days?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Do you also agree that that public participation done on the 26th was already outside the 10 days which ended on the 23rd February. Is it not?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Thank you. Now, Standing Order No.60 requires that before giving notice under Section 33 of the County Governments Act, the member shall deliver to the Clerk a copy of the prosed Motion in writing stating the grounds and particulars. Is it not?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Could you agree that the notice that you raised did not have these grounds and particulars?

It had the grounds and the particulars in reference to the Kisii County Standing Orders.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: We are looking at the document at page 5, is it not? Hon. Members, page 5 of the deputy governor’s bundle. Are you there?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: That is the notice issued on 13th. Is that not?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: It is your contention that when we say gross violation of the Constitution, abuse of office, gross misconduct, and crimes under national law, you have complied with the need for grounds and particulars. Is that your position?

All the documentation including the signature- --

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Question, apart from this document dated 13th, did you issue anything else?

Yes, I issued. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Where is it? Is it attached to this?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: It is your contention that when we say gross violation of the Constitution, abuse of office, gross misconduct, and crimes under national law, you have complied with the need for grounds and particulars. Is that your position?

All the documentation including the signature- --

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Question, apart from this document dated 13th, did you issue anything else?

Yes, I issued. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Where is it? Is it attached to this?

No, they are not the ones. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: So, is there another set that the county Assembly has not brought here?

All particulars have been provided for. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: I know they have been provided for in the Motion of 21st. What I am saying is; if you are saying they were attachments to the notice of 13th, then the County Assembly has chosen to keep them away.

Maybe. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Now, I would like us then to move to the public participation report that you then came up with, which is in the county Government bundle volume 1. Starting from page 24 to page 51. Are you there?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Now, could you confirm to this Senate that the public participation document is on page 24 to page 51?

Yes, I confirm. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Could you confirm that the entirety of that public participation report is not signed by anybody? Nobody has taken possession of it.

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Now, you said you were present throughout the prosecution of this Motion right from the notice on 13th, 28th- --

Counsel Katwa, your time is up. You should be winding upon your questions.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, considering the volume of the material they brought, they had said 30 minutes and they took about one hour.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I pray for your indulgence. Kindly, this witness makes all the difference, and we pray for your accommodation, kindly.

Yes, I confirm. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Could you confirm that the entirety of that public participation report is not signed by anybody? Nobody has taken possession of it.

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Now, you said you were present throughout the prosecution of this Motion right from the notice on 13th, 28th- --

Counsel Katwa, your time is up. You should be winding upon your questions.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, considering the volume of the material they brought, they had said 30 minutes and they took about one hour.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I pray for your indulgence. Kindly, this witness makes all the difference, and we pray for your accommodation, kindly.

Yes, he complained. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: He also defended himself before he saw that report, is that not so?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Okay. Now, I want you to look at page 103. You sympathize with me on the way I have been treated on time, is it not so?

On which grounds? The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Page 103. Are you at page 103 of the County Assembly report, please? At page 103, as much as we have agreed, that it was misplaced in terms of the date, it was true that Hon. Henry Moracha moved a Motion for public participation.

That is not true. Actually, the County Assembly Majority Leader moved a Motion on 21st, so as to allow public participation.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Is this the name of the---

Give me a minute, Counsel. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Is this the name of the Leader of---

Excuse me, Counsel, I am making a Statement because you have asked a question. This Motion was moved on 21st by the Majority Leader of the Kisii County Assembly, to allow for Members to adjourn so that they can go for public participation, which is not provided for in our Standing Orders. However, remember, the Constitution of Kenya is supreme---

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You are going too far. It is okay. So, other than that the date is wrong, is this the correct state of the moving of Motion for public participation? Was the public participation Motion in the words used by the County Assembly Majority Leader, “rose on Standing Order No. 93 for adjournment to allow for public participation”, correct?

Yes.

Give me a minute, Counsel. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Is this the name of the Leader of---

Excuse me, Counsel, I am making a Statement because you have asked a question. This Motion was moved on 21st by the Majority Leader of the Kisii County Assembly, to allow for Members to adjourn so that they can go for public participation, which is not provided for in our Standing Orders. However, remember, the Constitution of Kenya is supreme---

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You are going too far. It is okay. So, other than that the date is wrong, is this the correct state of the moving of Motion for public participation? Was the public participation Motion in the words used by the County Assembly Majority Leader, “rose on Standing Order No. 93 for adjournment to allow for public participation”, correct?

Yes.

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You did not. You did not also agree on who would collect the views of the public.

It was the County Clerk in the HANSARD and Communication Department.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You did not do that. Is that not so? It is also true that eventually it was the governor who financed the public participation and used the ward administrators. Is that not so?

No. The governor did not ask--- The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: May I ask, did the ward administrators play any role in this public participation?

They did not play any role. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: I would like you to go to page 41 of the same County Assembly Report, which is the public participation process. I would like you to look at the last paragraph -Moticho Ward. Are you there?

Yes, I am there. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Does it say that the exercise was headed by the Ward Administrator and Ward Manager?

That is what the Statement reads. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: That is what it says. So, indeed, the Governor and the Executive participated in this public participation. Is it not so?

They did not participate.

When the public participations were being conducted---

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Is this the report, correct?

It is not correct. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: So, you are now saying the County Assembly’s public participation's report is not correct?

No, I am not denouncing, but particularly on that aspect---

When the public participations were being conducted---

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Is this the report, correct?

It is not correct. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: So, you are now saying the County Assembly’s public participation's report is not correct?

No, I am not denouncing, but particularly on that aspect---

Counsel, when this interview---

Not true. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Did you, in any of the clips, see the public behind those people? Was there any that you could see a crowd?

Individual public--- The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Answer my question.

No. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Was any of the clips with members of public behind it?

They were. Some had and some did not have because some of these individual interviews were being recorded aside, not amongst crowd.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Listen to me. In the clips that you played today, is there any that has members of public in its background?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Okay. We will look at them again when we come to our defense. Mr. Dennis says that you lied, that he is a voter in your Ward. Is he a voter in your Ward?

Nowhere on record am I saying that Dennis comes from my Ward.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You said that in the HANSARD, in your submissions, when you were moving a Motion and saying---

I remember well I said that, by the time Dennis was doing a complaint to me, he was staying at Gitare, which is in Nyaribari.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: I want to ask you the last question, then my colleague will just ask you a few questions. Is it true you said that you spoke to Ms. Lucy Wahito, and she gave you information?

Yes.

Nowhere on record am I saying that Dennis comes from my Ward.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You said that in the HANSARD, in your submissions, when you were moving a Motion and saying---

I remember well I said that, by the time Dennis was doing a complaint to me, he was staying at Gitare, which is in Nyaribari.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: I want to ask you the last question, then my colleague will just ask you a few questions. Is it true you said that you spoke to Ms. Lucy Wahito, and she gave you information?

Yes.

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Notwithstanding that, it is your position that that money from that sale was for purposes of a bribe?

Yes, it was. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Okay. Did Dennis tell you that there was no time when he had a conversation between himself and Dr. Monda?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: He told you he had no conversation?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Now, did it occur to you to talk to the father of Dennis, or it would not be convenient to the case you had been told to move?

No, I did not reach out to him, because all the material that I needed to prosecute the Motion was provided to me by one Dennis Misati. So, I saw no need at all to reach out.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: The instructions I have is that the funeral of your aunt was on the 12th of May, 2023. Do you contest that?

I may not be able to contest that. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Having done the funeral on 12th of May, what business did you have, receiving money from Dr. Monda on the 29th of May, 28th May and 7th of May?

This was a commitment from the Deputy Governor. When I was escorting him to the car, he said that he was to send something in regard to---

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Thank you. I had to say that.

There is nowhere I called or did a message soliciting for any money from him. It was for that purpose.

I may not be able to contest that. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Having done the funeral on 12th of May, what business did you have, receiving money from Dr. Monda on the 29th of May, 28th May and 7th of May?

This was a commitment from the Deputy Governor. When I was escorting him to the car, he said that he was to send something in regard to---

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Thank you. I had to say that.

There is nowhere I called or did a message soliciting for any money from him. It was for that purpose.

You still have two minutes or so. So, you can conclude.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I have been unlucky. I have not had enough good time. I will try to limit, but I will beg that you possibly give me five minutes. I will be very specific.

Your time is two minutes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Hon. Siocha, there are many governance issues in Kisii County. Is that correct? There are many disputes and fights and you have heard Sen. Cherarkey speak of fights in funerals. Are there many governance issues in Kisii? Kuna vita Kisii kwetu. Is that correct? My time is running.

It is not correct. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Is it true that this Motion is before the Senate because there are disputes about governance in Kisii between the deputy governor and the governor?

I am the Mover. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Is it because of the governance issues?

Not at all and nowhere does that find its way in this Motion.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Are you aware that the Deputy Governor has been uncomfortable with the Governor conducting government business in the House? Yes, or no?

I am not aware because I do not work in the executive.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Are you aware that the absorption of the Kisii budget is at two percent, No. 47 of 47 in Kenya?

Unless you want me to expound me on your questions.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Yes, or no? I do not have the time.

As the Chair of Implementation, that is not the position.

I am not aware because I do not work in the executive.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Are you aware that the absorption of the Kisii budget is at two percent, No. 47 of 47 in Kenya?

Unless you want me to expound me on your questions.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Yes, or no? I do not have the time.

As the Chair of Implementation, that is not the position.

There is no material fact on that so I cannot confirm. I participated in the process, and I stand at a better position to give information on that. However, let us not divert.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Is it true and the deputy governor’s case is that these small disputes are the ones that have caused this Motion to be here?

Are you trying to inform this Senate that it is those disputes that made the deputy governor Dr. Monda, to go and solicit a bribe from one Dennis Misati?

The Counsel for the Deputy

: I do not have time and I do not want to be called for time. Let me ask my last question.

Counsel, your time is up. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, allow me to ask one last question on public participation and the bursaries.

Are you aware of the County Bursary Fund Committee and the Ward Bursary Fund Committee and whether you are aware that in Kisii, because you are a Member of the County Assembly (MCA) , that no one has ever gotten more than Kshs5,000 from the County bursaries? Someone---

Counsel, your time is up. Mr. Witness, answer that question.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we have grounds especially for students who come from poor and extremely needy backgrounds. They usually get more than the Kshs5,000. There are others equally on full scholarships.

Very well. Mr. Ndegwa. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for the opportunity for re-examination. I do not want to shoot in the dark as it has been and experienced. Mr. Witness, what has brought us here?

Is it the issue of the governor and the wrangles they could be having or not having or the question of the conduct of the deputy governor?

It is the question of the conduct of the deputy governor.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we have grounds especially for students who come from poor and extremely needy backgrounds. They usually get more than the Kshs5,000. There are others equally on full scholarships.

Very well. Mr. Ndegwa. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for the opportunity for re-examination. I do not want to shoot in the dark as it has been and experienced. Mr. Witness, what has brought us here?

Is it the issue of the governor and the wrangles they could be having or not having or the question of the conduct of the deputy governor?

It is the question of the conduct of the deputy governor.

Mr. Ndegwa, I need to know the time you will take for your re-exam.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I am almost done. Five minutes will suffice.

We begin at page 122, hon. Senators. You will see where we have one hon. Henry Moracha moving a Motion for adjournment. He subsequently makes submissions and guidance at page 123, the last paragraph which begins by:

“I hereby beg to move the Motion of adjournment to allow the people of Kisii County give their views by way of public participation, either by way of memoranda, questionnaires or any other manner suitable to the Clerk.”

Are the clips that you have played there contemplated as one of the manners of giving evidence?

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Who conducts public participation? Is it the County Assembly or the office of the governor?

It is the County Assembly. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Is the office of the governor involved in the oversight works of the County Assembly?

Absolutely not. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Was the governor involved in these processes?

He was not involved. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Will I therefore be right to say that the defence has formulated their own case to which they are answering to and hence the question on the issues of the budget?

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Are those issues on trial before this Senate?

They are not on trial before the Senate. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Was the defense served with the public participation report?

It was served upon request by the deputy governor.

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Are those issues on trial before this Senate?

They are not on trial before the Senate. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Was the defense served with the public participation report?

It was served upon request by the deputy governor.

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Finally, have you looked at the defence that has been brought forth by the deputy governor?

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Has he answered in his affidavit or refuted the clips that you have played?

He has not. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Has he answered to them?

He has not. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Has he disputed those allegations?

He has not. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Has he brought his clips to countenance to what we have brought forth?

He has not. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: It has been put to you that there are no members of the public who participated. Would you like to play Clip No. 1?

I would wish, and I seek the indulgence of the Temporary Speaker that clip No. 1 be played.

Counsel, I gave you five minutes. You have two minutes and that will eat into your time.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I am done, and I am most obliged. Clip No. 1 and I am off.

As we proceed, where is the office of the deputy governor situated?

It is situated at Gusii Stadium. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: So, they share the Gusii Stadium?

Yes, they share. There is the office of the governor and that of the deputy governor.

Counsel, I gave you five minutes. You have two minutes and that will eat into your time.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I am done, and I am most obliged. Clip No. 1 and I am off.

As we proceed, where is the office of the deputy governor situated?

It is situated at Gusii Stadium. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: So, they share the Gusii Stadium?

Yes, they share. There is the office of the governor and that of the deputy governor.

I did not have any role to play. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Who produced those clips?

It was the Hansard and the Communication Department for the Kisii County Assembly.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I yield the witness to the hon. Senators.

Thank you, hon. Members. In the interest of time, I will limit the number of Members that we will allow for clarification, to four.

I will start with Sen. Joe Nyutu. The time you can take is two minutes maximum.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I will spend less than the two minutes you have given me. I need clarification from the witness and his side. Who commands the County Enforcement Officers in Kisii County? I ask that because there is an allegation that the deputy governor has been misusing these particular officers.

Number two, the Deputy Governor has been accused, and we have viewed several videos, of soliciting for bribes for him to influence the issuance of bursaries in the County. So, would the witness tell this House, what role the Deputy Governor plays in the giving of bursaries in Kisii County?

Apart from the video that has been played for the second time, we observed that the other clips that were playing showed people, but did not show other attendees of the public participation function. That is one thing that we would want the witness to clarify.

If you would allow me to ask---

Sen. Joe Nyutu, you have asked three questions. Kindly take your seat.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

Kindly respond to those questions.

Sen. Joe Nyutu, you have asked three questions. Kindly take your seat.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

Kindly respond to those questions.

Sen. Sifuna---

Let me put the question.

Yes.

I am at page 217 of the HANSARD. I want to know if it is true that this is what Mr. Katwa Kigen said. There is a paragraph at the top there, where he says or is reported to have been saying, “Hon. Members, I pray that you do take this view that a question of bribery is a question of choosing who to believe. Do you want to believe a 68 years old retired man who has been friends with Dr. Monda for 32 years and saying this is not a bribe or a young gentleman who is saying it is a bribe?” I want Mr. Katwa Kigen to clarify whether indeed the evidence of a young man should also be taken with the same circumspection that he claims evidence from a gambler should be taken.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

Senior Counsel, Mr. Katwa Kigen, respond to those questions by Sen. Sifuna.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, my point is that the HANSARD has been manipulated. It is not an accurate representation of what happened in terms of--- If the events resulting the adjournment were events of 21st which should be the actual date, why would the report be headed the date of the argument, the defense and the voting when it did not happen on that date?

All I am saying is that when you look at that HANSARD, it should enrich our argument that there is a certain strong force within the Assembly, incorporating my good friend, Hon. Siocha, who are very determined to have the deputy governor impeached

Yes.

I am at page 217 of the HANSARD. I want to know if it is true that this is what Mr. Katwa Kigen said. There is a paragraph at the top there, where he says or is reported to have been saying, “Hon. Members, I pray that you do take this view that a question of bribery is a question of choosing who to believe. Do you want to believe a 68 years old retired man who has been friends with Dr. Monda for 32 years and saying this is not a bribe or a young gentleman who is saying it is a bribe?” I want Mr. Katwa Kigen to clarify whether indeed the evidence of a young man should also be taken with the same circumspection that he claims evidence from a gambler should be taken.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

Senior Counsel, Mr. Katwa Kigen, respond to those questions by

Sen. Orwoba, ask your question.

and are prepared to manage the Hansard. This is because the HANSARD is supposed to speak for itself. It is not supposed to be a document that you would come and say that it has typographical errors. We have concerns about the way the HANSARD was reported and that is part of the malice against the Deputy Governor.

On the issue of the arguments, I made at page 217; I stand by them and I intend to make the same arguments at the end of these proceedings. I will say that here is Mr. and Mrs Misati. Mr. Misati is 68 years old and his son is 37 years old. This is not a case where anybody is coming to say there was money, a forgery of a document---

This is not documentary evidence, but a question of one word against the other. What I have been trying to tell the Assembly and will be requesting this Senate to do is to see the extent to which this case entirely rests on and whom to believe. We will pray that you choose to believe the father who is 68 years old together with his wife, vis-a-vis what the son is saying. More so, when it is aggravated by the point where the son says he was not present when the discussions were had and cannot say for a fact whether or not the money was discussed as being a bribe or a refund.

Very well, you have answered the question.

Proceed, Sen. Orwoba.

It is my view that in previous writings, it has been stated that if the impeachment already stands outside time, it is invalid and should be thrown away. I will be praying that you should not look at it as a question of technicality but a question of substantive justice.

Sen. Beth Syengo you want to seek any clarification.

Thank you, Temporary Mr. Speaker, Sir. I want to seek clarification from the counsel. When he was asking about the clips that were played on the audience, in public meetings, when a speaker is making a speech, is it usual to focus on the audience or the speaker?

When I looked at Mama Wamutura speaking, she was speaking from her heart, because this is something that is hurting her. When I see a woman getting emotional---

Sen. Beth, your question is made.

It is my view that in previous writings, it has been stated that if the impeachment already stands outside time, it is invalid and should be thrown away. I will be praying that you should not look at it as a question of technicality but a question of substantive justice.

Sen. Beth Syengo you want to seek any clarification.

Thank you, Temporary Mr. Speaker, Sir. I want to seek clarification from the counsel. When he was asking about the clips that were played on the audience, in public meetings, when a speaker is making a speech, is it usual to focus on the audience or the speaker?

When I looked at Mama Wamutura speaking, she was speaking from her heart, because this is something that is hurting her. When I see a woman getting emotional---

Sen. Beth, your question is made.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Allow me to raise the second concern. Who runs the Governor's Bursary Fund and what is the role of the deputy governor in it?

Thank you.

clarifications. You note that this is a time-bound proceeding that must be prosecuted between now and the close of business tomorrow.

So, I will close at that so that we progress to the next witness.

Thank you, Katwa Kigen. Mr. Wycliffe, respond to the second question by Sen. Syengo.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, there is a special program domiciled in the office of the governor. The question that the hon. Senator asked; who was responsible? It is the office of the governor.

Thank you very much. Honorable Members, I had directed that I will only allow a maximum of four members to seek

So we will take 30 minutes for the exam in chief. We will do 20 minutes for cross-examination.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: We are most obliged. My learned friend, Mr. Mwangi will take the witness.

So, I will close at that so that we progress to the next witness.

Thank you for the kind permission to seek your directions. On whether it is proper for the Senior Counsel to impute improper motive, I did introduce the clips well knowing that I am only executing the functions of an advocate representing a client.

Mr. Ndegwa, remember a ruling was made earlier on regarding the objections that both parties had raised with regard to evidence and additional information that could not have been or could have been. That ruling was read in your presence. Allow this House to deal with them at an appropriate time.

Thank you. You are discharged. Honourable member, call upon your next witness so that we also guide with regards to time.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, our next witness is a lady who goes by the name of Lucy Wahito; the diligent Public Officer.

was ushered into the Chamber)

As Lucy is brought to the witness stand, how much time do you intend to spend?

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I will take similar time;30 minutes will suffice.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Njiru): Good evening, Lucy.

Good evening to you. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Welcome to this session. Lucy, you have sworn an affidavit dated the 8th of March, 2024.

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: I am referring the witness to the affidavit on page 263 of the County Assembly bundle. Page 263, Volume One of the County Assembly bundle.

Lucy, where do you work?

Sorry? The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Where do you work, Lucy?

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Njiru): Good evening, Lucy.

Good evening to you. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Welcome to this session. Lucy, you have sworn an affidavit dated the 8th of March, 2024.

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: I am referring the witness to the affidavit on page 263 of the County Assembly bundle. Page 263, Volume One of the County Assembly bundle.

Lucy, where do you work?

Sorry? The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Where do you work, Lucy?

I work for Gusii Water Sanitation Company. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: What is your designation?

My designation is the Managing Director. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: In brief, what is GWASCO, for honourable Members to understand?

GWASCO stands for Gusii Water and Sanitation Company. It is a company that was registered way back in 2006 under the Company's Act. It is jointly owned by Kisii and Nyamira County. Its mandate is to provide water and sanitation services in both counties.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Are you a member of the board?

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Njiru): Now, do you recall what took place prior to shortlisting?

Yes, before shortlisting, I recall I was summoned by His Excellency, the Deputy Governor, Hon. (Dr) Robert Monda. I visited his office. Out of the various discussions that we had in matters to do with water, he told me that he had an interest in one of the positions that we advertised in the newspaper for the Commercial Manager. He had a candidate of preference, and therefore he told me to consider that case.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Did he also mention the name of the person whom he wanted your assistance on?

Yes, he mentioned the name, the candidate being Mr. Dennis Misati.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Did you discuss anything else in that meeting where you were summoned?

It was a brief discussion. He told me about other matters that we shall be able to discuss later.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Now, following the shortlisting, when did you conduct your interviews?

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Njiru): Now, do you recall what took place prior to shortlisting?

Yes, before shortlisting, I recall I was summoned by His Excellency, the Deputy Governor, Hon. (Dr) Robert Monda. I visited his office. Out of the various discussions that we had in matters to do with water, he told me that he had an interest in one of the positions that we advertised in the newspaper for the Commercial Manager. He had a candidate of preference, and therefore he told me to consider that case.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Did he also mention the name of the person whom he wanted your assistance on?

Yes, he mentioned the name, the candidate being Mr. Dennis Misati.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Did you discuss anything else in that meeting where you were summoned?

It was a brief discussion. He told me about other matters that we shall be able to discuss later.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Now, following the shortlisting, when did you conduct your interviews?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the adverts were done on 14th April. The applications were supposed to be closed on 28th April. After that, the board hired an independent consultant to do the shortlisting on behalf of the company.

The shortlisting was submitted on 15th May, 2023, and the candidates were invited on 17th May, 2023. The interviews were conducted on 25th and 26th May, 2023.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: After the 26th May, 2023, after the interviews, what happened on the 28th May, 2023, at 9:24 p.m?

I recall on 28th May, 2023 that was on a Sunday at 9:24 p.m., and 13 seconds, I received Kshs100,000 in my M-pesa line, that 0724616288 from His Excellency, hon. (Dr.) Robert Monda.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: How did you know that the money was from hon.

(Dr.)

Monda?

receiving the money? Did you call him immediately, or were you perplexed that you received the money?

I received the money at 21:24 and at that time I could not do anything. However, the following day on Monday morning, I called His Excellency, Hon. (Dr.) Robert Moda, I inquired what the money was supposed to be for, and he reminded me of the conversation that we had earlier on in regard to the case that he wanted to be considered in the company of assisting one Mr. Dennis Misati.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Is this the conversation you had with His Excellency, hon.

(Dr.)

Robert Monda, in his office, when he summoned you?

When he summoned me, he told me other details would follow later.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: So, what does it mean by, ‘other details will follow later’, to you?

When I got the money, I connected the dots and I thought maybe that was what he meant, “Other details will follow later.”

So, when we talked that morning, I told him that if the young man is qualified, he shall be considered. Therefore, there was no need to try to influence him. I told him to reverse back the money that he had sent to my phone.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: You told him to reverse back on the 29th morning, correct?

receiving the money? Did you call him immediately, or were you perplexed that you received the money?

I received the money at 21:24 and at that time I could not do anything. However, the following day on Monday morning, I called His Excellency, Hon. (Dr.) Robert Moda, I inquired what the money was supposed to be for, and he reminded me of the conversation that we had earlier on in regard to the case that he wanted to be considered in the company of assisting one Mr. Dennis Misati.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Is this the conversation you had with His Excellency, hon.

(Dr.)

Robert Monda, in his office, when he summoned you?

When he summoned me, he told me other details would follow later.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: So, what does it mean by, ‘other details will follow later’, to you?

When I got the money, I connected the dots and I thought maybe that was what he meant, “Other details will follow later.”

So, when we talked that morning, I told him that if the young man is qualified, he shall be considered. Therefore, there was no need to try to influence him. I told him to reverse back the money that he had sent to my phone.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: You told him to reverse back on the 29th morning, correct?

Yes. It was on the 29th morning. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: In your experience, how long does it take to reverse a transaction?

reversal of the money, and that can take a long. I, Therefore, expected to receive that message from my end, and that is why it took me 24 hours to wait.

Again, you realize on that Monday I was in transit. So, I reversed that money in the evening after taking the whole day waiting to see whether I would be able to see the message of a reversal.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Njiru): So, it is your evidence that there was a possibility that he could reverse the money while you also sent back the money.

Chances were. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: I take you to your M-pesa Statement, Ms. Lucy, there has been--- By the way, Ms. Lucy, were you expecting that money?

Ms. Lucy Wahito: I was not expecting any money. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: I take you to the M-pesa statement. There has been a pronouncement by learned Senior Counsel, that you receive the money and utilized it.

On your M-pesa statement on page 277 of the County Assembly bundle, can you kindly explain the transactions following the receipt of the money and until the 30th May, 2023, when you returned the money to His Excellency, the Deputy Governor?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, from my statement, I received money from His Excellency, Hon. (Dr.) Robert Monda on 21:24:13, that was at night.

The following day, on the 29th, at 10:48, I sent my employee Kshs5,000. On the same day, that is 11:06 on the 29th, I withdrew from my equity bank account Kshs5,000 to have the same back in my M-Pesa.

On 29th May, 2023 at 14:14:18, that was around two, I withdrew from my cooperative bank, 30,000. I was going to a meeting and I sent the same amount of Kshs28,000 on the 29th at 14:18, the same, I sent to the ticketing company Kshs28,000. Therefore, my account had a balance of Kshs103,000. The same day when I was in transit, I had a person to whom, I made a transaction of Kshs6,000 which gave me a balance of Kshsh97,299.

Seemingly, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I did not utilize the funds that were in my account and that is where I would get money from my bank statement. If you look through that Statement on 30th May, 2023, at 6:21, I was at the Kenya Airports Authority (KPA) . I paid Kshs100 for the car park very early in the morning because I was taking a flight. Then, once I was done with the meeting of the day. Later at 4:15 p.m., on the 30th May, 2023. I returned that money of the Kshs100,000.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I never spent the money that had been sent on my phone.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: So, Ms. Lucy, do you also enjoy the services of Fuliza by Safaricom?

Ms. Lucy Wahito Yes. I do. I have a limit of Kshs5,000. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Did you also top it up to---

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I did that because I expected that if it was erroneously sent, there would be a message that we are supposed to send to Safaricom No.456, and it is supposed to notify the sender immediately they initiate the

Mr. Temporary Speaker, it reads- “I confirmed to have sent her the money mistakenly and told her that I intended to send money to a different person, Ms. Gladys Aming’a. She continued to tell me that she was at the airport, traveling to attend a meeting in Nairobi. She then inquired if it was possible for me to reverse the money. I told her I would try since I had never reversed money on an M-Pesa platform. I attempted, but I was not successful. I urge her to reverse it.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Ms. Wahito, kindly stop there. The Deputy Governor says he attempted, correct?

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Does that mean he intentionally sent the money to you and refused to reverse back?

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Finally, was the candidate that the Deputy Governor wanted assistance successful?

Yes. My Fuliza is more like money in my account. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Ms. Lucy, the deputy governor, largely speaks in his HANSARD at the County Assembly, at page 191 of the County Assembly bundle, paragraph 3. Kindly read the paragraph that begins with the word, “I confirm.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, it reads- “I confirmed to have sent her the money mistakenly and told her that I intended to send money to a different person, Ms. Gladys Aming’a. She continued to tell me that she was at the airport, traveling to attend a meeting in Nairobi. She then inquired if it was possible for me to reverse the money. I told her I would try since I had never reversed money on an M-Pesa platform. I attempted, but I was not successful. I urge her to reverse it.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Ms. Wahito, kindly stop there. The Deputy Governor says he attempted, correct?

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Does that mean he intentionally sent the money to you and refused to reverse back?

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Finally, was the candidate that the Deputy Governor wanted assistance successful?

He was not successful. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: What number was he in the---

After the interviews, he was at a distant fifth. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, and hon. Members, I cede the witness for cross-examination. Lucy, you will be asked questions by my learned senior. Remain calm and answer the questions.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Good evening, Lucy.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): My apologies. It is the bundle from the County Assembly, Volume 1, Paragraph 11. That is the last paragraph on page 264.

In that paragraph, you have stated that in the morning of 29th. You called the deputy governor, His Excellency Dr. Monda, and asked what the money he had sent was meant for. From the telephone conversation, he reminded you of the previous request on assistance in the recruitment of his preferred candidate, one Dennis Mokaya. You declined to be influenced and asked him to reverse the money. That is what you have said in that paragraph?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Since this process started, has that always been your position that indeed he told you what the money was for?

It has been my position. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Even as way back as 8th February, 2023?

On that date, I had made a statement which was slightly different to this. I did not know it would get---

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Lucy, kindly answer my question. Is the position you have taken at Paragraph 11 the same position you have always held since 8th February?

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): My apologies. It is the bundle from the County Assembly, Volume 1, Paragraph 11. That is the last paragraph on page 264.

In that paragraph, you have stated that in the morning of 29th. You called the deputy governor, His Excellency Dr. Monda, and asked what the money he had sent was meant for. From the telephone conversation, he reminded you of the previous request on assistance in the recruitment of his preferred candidate, one Dennis Mokaya. You declined to be influenced and asked him to reverse the money. That is what you have said in that paragraph?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Since this process started, has that always been your position that indeed he told you what the money was for?

It has been my position. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Even as way back as 8th February, 2023?

On that date, I had made a statement which was slightly different to this. I did not know it would get---

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Lucy, kindly answer my question. Is the position you have taken at Paragraph 11 the same position you have always held since 8th February?

That has been the position. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Okay. Let us look at what you said on 8th February. I am referring to the deputy governors report on page 26. That is your statement, is it not? Are you there? Not this bundle but the other one.

Yes, I am there. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: In the third paragraph from the top, you stated that on the morning of 29th, you called the deputy governor. This is the same call you are referring to at Paragraph 11 of your affidavit, is it not?

Yes, I did. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Is this the same call you are referring to in your statement?

It is the same call. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You proceed to say, ‘I called the deputy governor and asked him what the money was for. On the 8th of February, he answered you. What do you say?

In that statement, I said he kept quiet. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You saw the defense that the deputy governor made in the county assembly?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You know that he made a big issue of the point that when you called him, he did not say the money was a bribe, rather he kept quiet. He took advantage of the point you made in the statement.

Yes, I did. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Is this the same call you are referring to in your statement?

It is the same call. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You proceed to say, ‘I called the deputy governor and asked him what the money was for. On the 8th of February, he answered you. What do you say?

In that statement, I said he kept quiet. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You saw the defense that the deputy governor made in the county assembly?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You know that he made a big issue of the point that when you called him, he did not say the money was a bribe, rather he kept quiet. He took advantage of the point you made in the statement.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I wish to clarify that I have sworn an affidavit and that is what I will stick with.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Ms. Lucy, we are not competing. I am asking you questions.

Madam Lucy, I will guide you. Answer the question in the interest of time as when you have been asked. If you do not know the answer give a direct ‘No’ or ‘Yes’. We will not entertain arguments.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Ms. Lucy, what I am saying is, you saw that the speaker took advantage of the point you made that he kept quiet and said the effect of that is that indeed he did not tell you that it had anything to do with employment. Did you see that in his defense at the county assembly?

Yes, I saw. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You then went back and swore an affidavit on 8th March, after the impeachment decision of 29th.

governor negatively on page 264 on the 8th of March or the one you said he kept quiet on the 8th of February?

The sworn-in affidavit. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You agree the statement that is on page 27 is yours?

I agree. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Okay, let us now talk about the M-pesa you received. You said you received the M-pesa on the 28th. It is true that after you received the M-pesa you did not call him until the next day.

Yes, it was late in the night. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You did not call him the same day?

governor negatively on page 264 on the 8th of March or the one you said he kept quiet on the 8th of February?

The sworn-in affidavit. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You agree the statement that is on page 27 is yours?

I agree. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Okay, let us now talk about the M-pesa you received. You said you received the M-pesa on the 28th. It is true that after you received the M-pesa you did not call him until the next day.

Yes, it was late in the night. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You did not call him the same day?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: How long did it take you to see the Mpesa entry?

I saw it immediately. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Sorry.

I saw the M-pesa on 28th May, 2023 at 2124hrs. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You saw it just around the time he had sent it.

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Why did you not call him when you saw it?

The time was 2124hrs and I would not have called His Excellency at that particular time.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: He had just sent you the money.

Yes, he had just sent the money. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: But you chose not to call him at that time until the next day on the 29th.

Yes, I did not call that night The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: May I ask you, what time did you call him on the 29th?

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): When you requested him to reverse it, you could have sent it back.

Sorry. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You could have sent back the money on the 29th.

Yes, I could have. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You could have but did not. Let us look at your Mpesa at page 277. So, you say you called in between eight and nine. That is what you said?

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: It is true that at 10 o'clock, you used that money from him, is it?

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): When you requested him to reverse it, you could have sent it back.

Sorry. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You could have sent back the money on the 29th.

Yes, I could have. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You could have but did not. Let us look at your Mpesa at page 277. So, you say you called in between eight and nine. That is what you said?

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: It is true that at 10 o'clock, you used that money from him, is it?

The amount in my M-pesa statement was Kshs101, 459. I spent Kshs5 ,000 at 1048hrs and at 1106 hrs, I transferred Kshs5 ,000 from my M-pesa account.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: I will ask you the question again. Is it true that whereas you said you called him between 8.00 and 9.00 o’clock, you actually spent the money that he had sent to you at 1048 hrs?

I cannot say that I spent the money that he sent to me. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Let us look at it. You received from him Kshs100, 000, on the 28th?

I agree. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: And your balance comes to Kshs101, --- is it?

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir. By 1048hrs, I had Kshs96, 404. At 1106hrs, I had Kshs101, 464.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Mrs. Lucy, again I will remind you I am the one asking you questions. It is also true that between 1528hrs and 1815hrs, your balance is less than Kshs100 ,000, is it?

Come again? The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Between 1528hrs and 1815hrs, the balance in your account is less than Kshs100 ,000. Is it?

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Now, you said the interviews were conducted on the 15th. Is it?

The interviews were conducted on 25th May and 26th May

They were conducted on 25th May and 26th May 2023. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Can you look at page 27 of the Deputy Governor’s bundle? Are you at page 27 of the deputy governor’s bundle, hon. Members? It is the first paragraph at page 27.

You said, after receiving applications from interested persons, the Board shortlisted seven candidates for the post of Commercial Manager and invited them for interviews on 15th May, 2023. According to the statement that you wrote on 8th February, when were the interviews done?

On 28th and 26th May, 2023. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Is that what you have said in your statement of 8th?

This was invitation, that is when they were sent for messages. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Could you read it yourself Lucy?

They were invited for interview, --- The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Just read that first sentence.

They were conducted on 25th May and 26th May 2023. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Can you look at page 27 of the Deputy Governor’s bundle? Are you at page 27 of the deputy governor’s bundle, hon. Members? It is the first paragraph at page 27.

You said, after receiving applications from interested persons, the Board shortlisted seven candidates for the post of Commercial Manager and invited them for interviews on 15th May, 2023. According to the statement that you wrote on 8th February, when were the interviews done?

Exactly, yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Okay. What do you think of the Senators? To when do you now want to change this that the interviews were done?

On the 25th and 26th, May 2023. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Could you show us anywhere where you have adjusted that statement, that the interviews that were to be held on 15th of May, were instead to be held on the 25th or 26th? Is there anywhere, either in the statement at page 27 of the deputy governor’s bundle or page 264 of the County Assembly bundle, where you adjusted the date from 15th to 25th?

There is nowhere. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You have not done that. It is something that you prepared for in the break to change the date, is it not?

Not really. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You said that the entity where you are the CEO, is constituted of a board, is it not?

Exactly, yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Okay. What do you think of the Senators? To when do you now want to change this that the interviews were done?

On the 25th and 26th, May 2023. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Could you show us anywhere where you have adjusted that statement, that the interviews that were to be held on 15th of May, were instead to be held on the 25th or 26th? Is there anywhere, either in the statement at page 27 of the deputy governor’s bundle or page 264 of the County Assembly bundle, where you adjusted the date from 15th to 25th?

There is nowhere. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You have not done that. It is something that you prepared for in the break to change the date, is it not?

Not really. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You said that the entity where you are the CEO, is constituted of a board, is it not?

Exactly, Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: How do you determine the best candidate?

They are ranked. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: In fact, they are scored by each of the board members individually, is it not?

Exactly. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: For purposes of an argument, if it were to be that the interviews were done on 15th of May, or alternatively, even if we were to say it was done on the 25th or 26th, the best candidate would be determined by aggregation of the scores by each of the board members, is it not?

The independent members are appointed by the shareholders. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: And the shareholders are Nyamira and Gusii County, is it not?

Exactly. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: The executive of both would be the governor, is it not?

The CECM for Finance and Water for both counties. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: And ultimately the governor, is it not? Ultimately, they are answerable to the governor, is it not?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Very well. If Hon. (Dr.) Robert Monda really wanted the job, the people he would be speaking to would be the board members, who would be scoring?

The independent members are appointed by the shareholders. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: And the shareholders are Nyamira and Gusii County, is it not?

Exactly. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: The executive of both would be the governor, is it not?

The CECM for Finance and Water for both counties. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: And ultimately the governor, is it not? Ultimately, they are answerable to the governor, is it not?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Very well. If Hon. (Dr.) Robert Monda really wanted the job, the people he would be speaking to would be the board members, who would be scoring?

Yes, the board members. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: That would have been more effective. Thank you.

I would like you to look at page 189 of the County’s bundle as I close. Anyway, I will leave that question. Madam Temporary Speaker, if you allow me, I give the remaining about two minutes to my colleague to ask one or two questions, please?

You may proceed. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Madam Temporary Speaker and the Plenary, for the record, I am Kelvin Michuki.

Ms. Wahito, I will ask you two questions in relation to the recruitment exercise in question. From your evidence, what role did you undertake in the shortlisting of these candidates?

In the shortlist of the candidate, I never took any role. The board had hired an independent consultant who brought the report to the board.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Who was this independent consultant?

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): How would the deputy governor be sure that this person would be shortlisted by your independent consultant to end up at the interviews?

By virtue of his qualifications. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Did you go through the qualifications of all the candidates who applied for the job?

I did not go through. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Can you be certain that he had the best qualifications of everyone who had applied?

Out of the list that was submitted by the Alfred --- The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Everyone who applied before shortlisting.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): How would the deputy governor be sure that this person would be shortlisted by your independent consultant to end up at the interviews?

By virtue of his qualifications. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Did you go through the qualifications of all the candidates who applied for the job?

I did not go through. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Can you be certain that he had the best qualifications of everyone who had applied?

Out of the list that was submitted by the Alfred --- The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Everyone who applied before shortlisting.

The document that was submitted to the Board had the list of all the candidates who had applied. It did not only have the list of the candidates who had applied for the position of commercial manager but all the other positions and their qualifications. He was shortlisted because he had qualified.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: By the independent consultant?

Exactly, yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Who the deputy governor does not control or influence?

Yes, he does not. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Okay, thank you. That is all. Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker, and Ms. Wahito.

Thank you, Counsel. Do we have any re-examination? Counsel, how many minutes do you need?

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Madam Temporary Speaker, I will need 10 minutes.

A statement at EACC. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Madam Temporary Speaker, we did not go into the issue of EACC. In your directions, for purposes of the hearing, you had said re-examination should limit itself to what was explored in the course of cross-examination.

Counsel, that objection is

Madam Temporary Speaker, I wrote the statement in a hurry and when I was summoned and asked to come and appear in the Senate, I made an affidavit to clarify the issues.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Is that the reason why you have two versions of the story?

Exactly, yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Which one are you sticking to?

A statement at EACC. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Madam Temporary Speaker, we did not go into the issue of EACC. In your directions, for purposes of the hearing, you had said re-examination should limit itself to what was explored in the course of cross-examination.

Counsel, that objection is

Madam Temporary Speaker, I wrote the statement in a hurry and when I was summoned and asked to come and appear in the Senate, I made an affidavit to clarify the issues.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Is that the reason why you have two versions of the story?

Exactly, yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Which one are you sticking to?

Madam Temporary Speaker, I stick with the affidavit that I made before a Commissioner of Oaths.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: In cross examination, Senior Counsel, Mr. Katwa Kigen referred to the time of Mpesa messages. Are you a family person?

Madam Temporary Speaker, yes, I am a family person. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Could that be the reason why you called the deputy governor in the morning?

Madam Temporary Speaker, if you check, I withdrew Kshs30,000 from Cooperative Bank and Kshs5,000 from Equity Bank on 29th. Meaning, I was not spending the Kshs100,000 that had been sent to my phone.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: On the issue of the interviews, when was the interview?

The interviews were done on 25th and 26th May, 2023. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: You said that you outsourced a party. Does the Board have an influence on--- What did you say is name of the agency?

Alfred Consultancy. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: As the Board Members do you have direct control?

The Board does not have control. That is among the list of the prequalified consultants in the company.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Could you please explain to the House how the process happens from the shortlisting to the recruitment?

Madam Temporary Speaker, after the applications were submitted to the office of the Managing Director on 28th, it was closed and the consultant was given the database to go and look through from the long list and come up with a short list within a period of seven days. That is when they submitted the list to the Board of Directors on the 15th of May, 2023.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: At what point, did you communicate on the interviews?

Madam Temporary Speaker, if you check, I withdrew Kshs30,000 from Cooperative Bank and Kshs5,000 from Equity Bank on 29th. Meaning, I was not spending the Kshs100,000 that had been sent to my phone.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: On the issue of the interviews, when was the interview?

The interviews were done on 25th and 26th May, 2023. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: You said that you outsourced a party. Does the Board have an influence on--- What did you say is name of the agency?

Alfred Consultancy. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: As the Board Members do you have direct control?

The Board does not have control. That is among the list of the prequalified consultants in the company.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Could you please explain to the House how the process happens from the shortlisting to the recruitment?

Madam Temporary Speaker, after the applications were submitted to the office of the Managing Director on 28th, it was closed and the consultant was given the database to go and look through from the long list and come up with a short list within a period of seven days. That is when they submitted the list to the Board of Directors on the 15th of May, 2023.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: At what point, did you communicate on the interviews?

Madam Temporary Speaker, we communicated on the same dates of 15th to 17th. That is when we invited the candidates who had been shortlisted for the interviews. We gave them seven days’ notice.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: That is all, Madam Temporary Speaker.

list of about 12 Senators who are interested in interventions. I will try and balance both sides, but we could do fewer than the 13.

Senator Seki, please proceed.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. To the witness, I will just go directly to the point. How can you relate the 15th and the 25th dates that you indicated that the interviews were done? How can you explain these two dates that are coming in your Statements and the presentation from the legal counsel?

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. 15th is when Altrade Consultants submitted the report, and in the shortlisting at the bottom, the date of 15th is written as 15th May 2023. That is where it caused some confusion because it is already on the list of shortlisted candidates. It is the day that we received the report from the consultants.

Sen. Betty Montet, please proceed.

list of about 12 Senators who are interested in interventions. I will try and balance both sides, but we could do fewer than the 13.

Senator Seki, please proceed.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. To the witness, I will just go directly to the point. How can you relate the 15th and the 25th dates that you indicated that the interviews were done? How can you explain these two dates that are coming in your Statements and the presentation from the legal counsel?

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. 15th is when Altrade Consultants submitted the report, and in the shortlisting at the bottom, the date of 15th is written as 15th May 2023. That is where it caused some confusion because it is already on the list of shortlisted candidates. It is the day that we received the report from the consultants.

Sen. Betty Montet, please proceed.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I would like Madam Lucy, to tell this House, what was the gross salary the successful applicant of this job which was being facilitated expected to get.

officio in this case are the County Executive Committee Members (CECMs), Water and Finance for both counties. That is, Nyamira and Kisii Counties.

Meaning that we have two from each and every county, sitting as Board Members of the company.

Sen. Crystal Asige.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. To the witness, my questions are as follows-

When was the meeting that you mentioned you had with the Deputy Governor, where he proposed supporting is preferred candidate? When were the successful candidates informed in this recruitment process?

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor mentioned that there might have been an attempt to reverse, is there any evidence of the Deputy Governor’s reversal from Safaricom?

He also made a point to direct Senators to the 8th February statement by the witness where she spoke of a silence that was heard on the phone. How should hon. Senators interpret the silence as being, noting what silence means in a court of law?

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor spoke of there being an error, I want them to kindly let us know the phone numbers for Lucy and Gladys in order to see how close those two numbers were.

Sen. Crystal Asige, you are overloading that witness with a raft of questions. If you could let her answer, then it would be reasonable.

officio in this case are the County Executive Committee Members (CECMs), Water and Finance for both counties. That is, Nyamira and Kisii Counties.

Meaning that we have two from each and every county, sitting as Board Members of the company.

Sen. Crystal Asige.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I have brief questions. For how long have you known the Deputy Governor and how has your work relation been with him since you have been the Managing Director for the past one and half years in the institution where you work?

Secondly, in both your statement and affidavit, you have a keyword known as “approached”. When you say; “Robert Monda approached me saying---” How was the approach? Was it physical, a phone call or an email? How was the mode of the approach that you stated?

When you sent the money back to Dr. Monda, what was his response? When he approached you for a request of a candidate, what was your response to him?

Madam Temporary Speaker, I have known His Excellency, Dr. Robert Monda, from the time they got into office. That is from August 2022.

Relation in the workplace has been a positive one because he is a stakeholder since county governments are shareholders. We have had good relations with the county government which he serves as the deputy governor. The relationship and the support that we have been receiving from the company shows that we have been having a good working relationship.

The third question is to do with the word “approach”. On 4th May,2023, it was a Thursday, he called and summoned me to his office at Gusii Stadium. When I went to his office, that is when he told me that he had an interest in one of the adverts he had seen in the Daily Nation Newspaper. I told him that if the candidate qualifies, he will get the job because it is purely based on merit and qualifications.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker.

Proceed, Sen. Wambua.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I have two quick questions. Madam Lucy, did you have any other cash transactions before you received M- pesa from his account? Secondly, when you called him on 29th about the money you received on 28th, did he tell you explicitly that the money was meant to influence your decision on the job in question?

Madam Temporary Speaker, when I called the Deputy Governor on 29th, he asked me to remember the case he had told me about in terms of assisting his candidate to get a job as the commercial manager. I told him that there was no need to send money because the criteria is purely based on merit. I then asked him to reverse the money.

Proceed, Sen. Tabitha Mutinda. Sen. Sifuna, your chance is coming, so hold on.

Sorry?

Did you answer the first question?

Sorry, Madam Temporary Speaker, maybe I did not get that.

Repeat it for her.

The first question was, did you have any cash transactions, any cash business between yourself, and the Deputy Governor before 28th when you received money through Mpesa from him?

First question?

Sorry?

Did you answer the first question?

Sorry, Madam Temporary Speaker, maybe I did not get that.

Repeat it for her.

The first question was, did you have any cash transactions, any cash business between yourself, and the Deputy Governor before 28th when you received money through Mpesa from him?

Proceed.

Senator Murgor, do you still want to raise any questions?

Thank you very much, Madam Temporary Speaker. I have two questions for the witness. One is, what did you see in your message? Did you see Kshs.100, 000 or did you see a name with it such that you are comfortable overnight with the money and not uncomfortable such that you would seek as to who is the sender and probably send it back?

So, what made you comfortable to just have it with you overnight? Then my second question is, what influence do you have over the Board such that the deputy governor would seek your help to be able to help him position this applicant?

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. Question number one, in line with what influence, being a Board Member, I am the Managing Director of the Company. I would probably think that he felt that I could be able to influence because by virtue of the office that I hold as the Managing Director and I sit in the Board, he felt that maybe I could be able to influence. It is by virtue of the position that I hold.

Question number two: The comfort in which I stayed with the money at night, I clearly stated the money was sent to me at 2134 hrs. It was a Sunday night. This is my boss in the county. I would not have called him at that particular time. The following day was a Monday. That is why I called him during the official working hours.

Thank you.

Hon. Senators, we still have a list. I want to give an opportunity to Sen. Sifuna, but I request that if a question has already been answered, we do not repeat it because most likely you get the same answer.

Sen. Sifuna?

Madam Temporary Speaker, at the beginning of this proceeding, there were certain admissions that were made by the counsel for the deputy governor. Most important of which was that, yes, they accept money was received, but it was not for the purposes stated by the prosecution, but that it was for repayment of a debt.

Now, Senior Counsel Katwa Kigen, at page 189, where we have excerpts of the HANSARD of the proceedings before the County Assembly, is it not a fact that there was indeed another admission before the county assembly? You will see the question you put to him there.

Did you talk to Lucy about that request about your friend, Mr. Joseph Misati? Is it not a fact if the answer is to be believed that, in fact, this question of whether the deputy governor spoke to the Managing Director at GWASCO, on this request or not, has already been made?

Or is it your position, as you have stated before, that the HANSARD has been doctored?

I thank you.

Proceed.

Madam Temporary Speaker, yes, I want to say that in the year 2021, the company had serious governance issues, and we were summoned to the Senate. We have been summoned twice.

Through the support of this Senate and the recommendations that he has been able to make, the company and the shareholders took that seriously and put in place the proper governance structures of the company. Through those structures, the company has made tremendous steps towards positive progress, improvements. The corporate image of the company has changed.

Thank you, Counsel. Sen. Orwoba, you may proceed, and I will have to make a decision on whether we proceed, or---

Madam Temporary Speaker, I will be very brief. Thank you, Ms. Lucy, for keeping calm. I want to ask this question because there are some grey areas.

You are referencing that you did not make the phone call because it was 9.34 pm on a Sunday night. The assumption is that you do not speak to your bosses or anyone within work past certain hours.

So, my question is, have you never called the deputy governor past a certain hour in reference to any other issue other than this?

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. We have never spoken with His Excellency, the deputy governor, anytime beyond 5 pm. The few times that we have spoken with His Excellency, is during official hours and often morning hours. This would have been a different scenario if I had called him at night.

Sen. Osotsi, you may proceed, but do not repeat the questions, please.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. Ms. Lucy, this is the third time that you have appeared before the Senate. You have appeared before the CPIC Committee, which I chair as the Managing Director of GWASCO, and during those occasions, the Committee has given you a number of directives.

The first is on matters bordering on the fight against corruption. Secondly, it is matters bordering on the skill set and the competitive recruitment of staff in your company. Are your actions in this particular case motivated by the recommendations of the Committee to you?

Madam Temporary Speaker, yes, I want to say that in the year 2021, the company had serious governance issues, and we were summoned to the Senate. We have been summoned twice.

Through the support of this Senate and the recommendations that he has been able to make, the company and the shareholders took that seriously and put in place the proper governance structures of the company. Through those structures, the company has made tremendous steps towards positive progress, improvements. The corporate image of the company has changed.

This is to my learned friend and senior, Mr. Kato. At page 26 the money was sent by error to the number 0724616288 that is to Lucy Wahito. At E7, the money was meant to be sent to Gladys Aming’a. Could you kindly supply us with the mobile number for Gladys Aming’a?

Counsel proceed. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. If you look at page 117B of the governor’s bundle, the error was not so much in terms of the number that was picked, but more of the names as saved by the Deputy Governor.

If you look at that page 117B, the deputy governor has saved the number of Ms. Lucy as “CEO GWASCO” and for Gladys as “CEO Health, Gladys Aming’a”. The mistake was therefore in the choice of the person he picked when he was sending the money.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. This House is a House of records and facts. Ms. Lucy, on a Statement of 8th February 2024, indicated very clearly that she--- let me read just this part -

After receiving applications from interested persons, the board shortlisted candidates for the post of commercial manager and invited them for interviews on 15th May, 2023. She went on to give time to people like Mr. Boyani Ongera 10.00 a.m. and Mercy Vati, 10.30 a.m.

Madam Temporary Speaker, what I do not understand this: In her witness statement, she says she invited these people on the 15th. She went on and said that they were supposed to come on the 25th and 26th. I want some clarification on that.

I also want to know if she could agree with me that she lied in her statement which she wrote on the 8th February, 2024 and the same on the affidavit dated 8th March,

Ms. Lucy can you tackle that quickly?

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I did not lie. It is only that the statement was not made under the Commissioner of Oaths. That is why I clarified by saying that I stick with my affidavit that I swore.

Proceed Sen. Omogeni

This is to my learned friend and senior, Mr. Kato. At page 26 the money was sent by error to the number 0724616288 that is to Lucy Wahito. At E7, the money was meant to be sent to Gladys Aming’a. Could you kindly supply us with the mobile number for Gladys Aming’a?

Counsel proceed. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. If you look at page 117B of the governor’s bundle, the error was not so much in terms of the number that was picked, but more of the names as saved by the Deputy Governor.

If you look at that page 117B, the deputy governor has saved the number of Ms. Lucy as “CEO GWASCO” and for Gladys as “CEO Health, Gladys Aming’a”. The mistake was therefore in the choice of the person he picked when he was sending the money.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. The statements from the Senator are not true. No court case quashed the adverts that had been made on 14th

Senator, that is a response. Whether good or bad, you know what to do when the response does not meet your standard.

Sen. Beth Syengo, proceed. The final Senator will be Sen. Mbugua. Afterward, we will not allow more questions. The point of order will pend the finalization of the two senators' questions.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker, for this chance. My question goes to the Counsel for the Deputy Governor. It is in line with what the Senior Counsel has asked. How can the contact for Lucy, a name that starts with ‘L’ and Gladys a name that starts with ‘G’ be confused yet phone contacts appear alphabetically?

The question is directed to the Counsel.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Madam Temporary Speaker, on page 117B we have shown how he had saved the names in a serial order of CO-Gladys and CO-Lucy. The names of Lucy and Gladys are next to each other. This is the most we can do in terms of answering the question of how the mistake happened. This is the most I can say.

With your permission, I would like to answer the question by the Senior Counsel, Sen. Omogeni. The number of Gladys Aming’a is 0727455843.

Sen. Mbugua, proceed. This is the final question to this witness.

Sen. Chute, hold the point of order until we finalize. I have given directions. Wait.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I will be brief. Madam Lucy, I want a clarification from you. By the time you advertised for this position, were you aware that there was a court order which had declared that position null and void and they had advised that you stop the recruitment process.

I also want you to tell me this hon. House if it is true that around the same time, the salary of the Managing Director was indeed increased from Kshs133,000 to Kshs510,000. If it is true, what necessitated the increase for this position?

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. The statements from the Senator are not true. No court case quashed the adverts that had been made on 14th

Lucy is the witness, I believe, who has just finished to testify.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: That is correct, Madam Temporary Speaker. Her number is 07246---

Senators, I believe it is okay. That number is already in the documents. Counsel, I believe it may not be necessary to supply it. They have their bundles, so they can read through the evidence.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Exactly, on Page

How long are you going to take?

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: She will be brief and will take about 20 minutes.

Okay, proceed. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: She goes by the name Karen Magara.

Proceed.

I believe this is all for this witness. Counsel for the County Assembly, do you wish to call another witness, or have you dropped them?

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Yes, Madam Temporary Speaker. Also, permit me to supply the number of the witness who has just left, Lucy and this is for purposes of the benevolence from the County Assembly. The number is 0724 616288. It was sought and never supplied.

Madam Temporary Speaker, kindly allow us to call the next witness who goes by the ---

Lucy is the witness, I believe, who has just finished to testify.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: That is correct, Madam Temporary Speaker. Her number is 07246---

Senators, I believe it is okay. That number is already in the documents. Counsel, I believe it may not be necessary to supply it. They have their bundles, so they can read through the evidence.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Exactly, on Page

How long are you going to take?

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: She will be brief and will take about 20 minutes.

Okay, proceed. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: She goes by the name Karen Magara.

Proceed.

My name is Karen Magara. I am a nominated Member of County Assembly (MCA) in the Kisii County Assembly, representing special interests.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: So, being an MCA, you are aware and familiar with the issue at hand, right?

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: You are also the seconder in the Motion for Impeachment of the deputy governor, correct?

Yes, Madam Temporary Speaker. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Thank you. I want to lead you on two issues. One is on the issue of public participation, and then briefly on your interaction with the witnesses in this matter.

So, on public participation, did you witness how public participation was conducted in Kisii County?

15 minutes is even better. So, Counsel Katwa Kigen maybe you will match the 15 minutes if need be.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: My colleague intended to surrender the other minutes to me, but it is okay I can do 15 minutes.

was ushered into the Chamber)

You can do 15 minutes. Let us proceed.

(The Witness for the County Assembly,

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Good evening hon. Karen?

Good evening. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: For record purposes, kindly repeat your name, tell us what you do for a living and where you come from.

My name is Karen Magara. I am a nominated Member of County Assembly (MCA) in the Kisii County Assembly, representing special interests.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: So, being an MCA, you are aware and familiar with the issue at hand, right?

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: You are also the seconder in the Motion for Impeachment of the deputy governor, correct?

Yes, Madam Temporary Speaker. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Thank you. I want to lead you on two issues. One is on the issue of public participation, and then briefly on your interaction with the witnesses in this matter.

So, on public participation, did you witness how public participation was conducted in Kisii County?

Madam Temporary Speaker, being a special elect, I had an opportunity not only to go to one ward, but to just do a sampling kind of exercise during the public participation. Indeed, it was a demonstration that so many issues came up in that public participation. So, I did witness the public participation.

The public participation had various forms of giving their views. One was by participation in a group. Others opted to take secret recording because they felt some of their issues were personal. Some wrote a memorandum to the Assembly through the Clerk. This was being done on the 26th, which was on a Monday.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Thank you. You have heard the defence counsel allege that some of those videos were cooked and that they were never recorded at the venue of the public participation. What would you say about that?

Madam Temporary Speaker, I want to emphasise the point that when the public participation is being done, it may not necessarily find one person in the ward.

Remember, we have different divisions. Public participation can be in Tabaka Ward, but the person from Tabaka Ward could be working in Nyamarambe Ward, for example, which is in Bogetenga Ward. Where they were found, was where they were giving their views. It was not restrained to the ward that they come from.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Thank you. The videos that were played today, did you have an occasion to witness any of those recordings being taken?

Some of them, yes, I did, Madam Temporary Speaker. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Can you point us to one of them that you had the occasion of being present when it was recorded.

One that was very touching was when I witnessed an old Mzee talk about being told to sell 14 acres of land. They had a transaction with His Excellency the Deputy Governor. Midway, the transaction did not end well, and then the Deputy Governor was asking for a refund.

Another one was a woman, who clearly demonstrated that she is selling mutura. She was asking, if she is selling mutura and trying to educate her children, and when they go through school, then the leaders will ask her to raise the Kshs800,00. Where will she raise it from? That touched me.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: You have also heard an allegation tabled by the defence team that the governor was involved through the use of subcounty admin and ward admin in the public participation process. What would your answer be?

What is your point of order, Sen. Thang’wa?

This particular public participation originated from the Assembly. There is no way that the Executive could have been allowed to carry out this public participation. So, it is not true.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): In instances where the event was to take place at the subcounty headquarters, is it not natural that the subcounty administration would usher in the guest? Is that the position?

Yes. They could usher in because mostly, when it is done in the headquarters, sometimes they are told to arrange for the public participation. The arrangement include bringing the chairs and allowing us to use the facility. Then when the public participation ends, after they have organised where the public participation is, if it is for the Assembly, their engagement ends there.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Thank you. To my last limp of this questioning, did you have an opportunity to interact with the allegations in the Notice of Motion for Impeachment and conduct your own investigations on the allegations? If so, what was the nature of your interaction?

Yes, Madam Temporary Speaker, I had an opportunity to engage and do my own investigations. That was after Hon. Siocha requested me to second the Motion.

Since I represent special interest groups, I voluntarily decided to, first of all, familiarise myself with the issues. I wanted to know whether what they were saying was correct. So, I went ahead and requested for the number of Dennis from Hon. Siocha. I then requested him to be in the company of the wife because I did not want to talk to Dennis alone.

They made arrangements and we met in town. They took me through the process of how they struggled to raise the money. What pained me is that the lady was expectant after struggling for 12 years. I am a woman and I know what women go through sometimes, particularly when you cannot conceive. The lady called Nyaboke sat and narrated how they even had to separate shortly with the husband because she could not contain whatever she was going through.

This gave me a motivation and I thought that being a woman representing the youth and Persons with Disabilities (PwDs) , I had to rise to the occasion. I decided to take it upon myself to second this Motion. Whatever Dennis and the wife went through, I am standing here as a woman painfully explaining.

A Member of County Assembly (MCA) earns Kshs86,000. I ask myself as an MCA who is struggling to take her children to school, how long will I save to give a bribe of Kshs800,000, if somebody asked me to give them that money? That touched me.

When I was contributing to this Motion in the House, I said that I do not want to talk about the law, but speak to the morals. Where is our society now? I earn Kshs86,000 but somebody tells me to give them Kshs800,000. Where will I get it? That pained me.

I voluntarily promised to walk with them this journey, that justice must be served to Nyaboke and Dennis. That is my conviction and that is why I stand in this Senate patiently wanting to convince---

On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker.

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Thank you. Madam Temporary Speaker, that will be all for this witness.

Counsel Kigen, please, proceed.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: My colleague, Mr. Ochoki, will do the cross-examination.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Thank you, for the opportunity, Madam Temporary Speaker.

Hon. Karen, I would like to clarify a few things from you, and I will start with whether you are aware of the advertisement that was made by the County Assembly, which is at Page 22 of Vol. I of the County Assembly's documents. Are you aware of that? Did you see the newspaper adverts in The Standard of February 24th, 2024?

Which page? The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Page 22.

Yes.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker, for the guidance. I am actually on my last question on the issue. I just allowed the witness to give a true account of her own investigations and why she had to support the Motion for Impeachment.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Hon. Witness, were the four allegations against the Deputy Governor of Kisii County substantiated to warrant an impeachment? That would be my last question.

Yes, they were substantiated.

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Thank you. Madam Temporary Speaker, that will be all for this witness.

Counsel Kigen, please, proceed.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: My colleague, Mr. Ochoki, will do the cross-examination.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Thank you, for the opportunity, Madam Temporary Speaker.

Hon. Karen, I would like to clarify a few things from you, and I will start with whether you are aware of the advertisement that was made by the County Assembly, which is at Page 22 of Vol. I of the County Assembly's documents. Are you aware of that? Did you see the newspaper adverts in The Standard of February 24th, 2024?

Which page? The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Page 22.

Yes.

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Okay. In your contribution at the County Assembly, is there any mention of public participation, except for reference that you met Dennis and his wife?

I did not speak about it, but the report had already been submitted to the Clerk.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: The question is; did you make reference to public participation?

I did because one of the participation I did was to see Dennis.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: However, the participation that you talk about having gone everywhere is not in your contribution in the County Assembly. Is that correct?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Thank you. Why did you not bring out or raise that contribution in the County Assembly?

Yes, I did. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Which ones did you visit?

I went to Tabaka, where there was a public participation. There was another one in Nyamarambe and another one in Kitutu.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Okay. You passionately raised the issue of public participation. Let me refer you to your contribution in the House on 29th of February, this year.

Hon. Madam Temporary Speaker, the same can be found on page--- As I get it, in your contribution in the House, at Page 158 of Vol.I of the County Assembly’s documents, your emotional participation and your contribution runs from Page 158 to 160 of that County Assembly Volume.

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Okay. In your contribution at the County Assembly, is there any mention of public participation, except for reference that you met Dennis and his wife?

I did not speak about it, but the report had already been submitted to the Clerk.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: The question is; did you make reference to public participation?

I did because one of the participation I did was to see Dennis.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: However, the participation that you talk about having gone everywhere is not in your contribution in the County Assembly. Is that correct?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Thank you. Why did you not bring out or raise that contribution in the County Assembly?

I have not reconciled the two. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You have told the House that Dennis’s wife had 12 years of unsuccessful trials to get pregnant?

For the second born, Madam Temporary Speaker. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Have you brought to the Senate any medical document of that problem?

No. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You claim or say that she is suffering from serious depression. Have you brought any medical document to the Senate?

No. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Let me refer you to the voting. Madam Temporary Speaker, please, allow me refer the witness to Page 158 of the documents titled DG. Take a look at that.

In that Page 158, confirm that particular document is your vote at the County Assembly and alongside it, is your staff ID?

Yes, it is mine. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Is it correct that this photo was sent to the real sponsor of the Motion to impeach the Deputy Governor in order to confirm that, indeed, you voted to impeach the Deputy Governor?

No, it is not true.

I have not reconciled the two. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You have told the House that Dennis’s wife had 12 years of unsuccessful trials to get pregnant?

For the second born, Madam Temporary Speaker. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Have you brought to the Senate any medical document of that problem?

No. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You claim or say that she is suffering from serious depression. Have you brought any medical document to the Senate?

No. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Let me refer you to the voting. Madam Temporary Speaker, please, allow me refer the witness to Page 158 of the documents titled DG. Take a look at that.

In that Page 158, confirm that particular document is your vote at the County Assembly and alongside it, is your staff ID?

Yes, it is mine. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Is it correct that this photo was sent to the real sponsor of the Motion to impeach the Deputy Governor in order to confirm that, indeed, you voted to impeach the Deputy Governor?

No, it is not true.

Not true. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: What is your explanation for the other Members that also took photos alongside their votes?

Madam Temporary Speaker, I am not able to answer for other Members. I can only answer for my vote and photo.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Does the Deputy Governor have a kitty for bursaries?

No. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Are you aware of the provisions of the Kisii County Bursary Act, 2014?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Does the Deputy Governor have any influence with regard to who is awarded bursaries?

No. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Why then would you rely on public participation? Ordinarily, just for the record, are you aware of anyone that has been given a bursary of more than Kshs5,000 in Kisii County?

Yes.

Not true. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: What is your explanation for the other Members that also took photos alongside their votes?

Madam Temporary Speaker, I am not able to answer for other Members. I can only answer for my vote and photo.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Does the Deputy Governor have a kitty for bursaries?

No. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Are you aware of the provisions of the Kisii County Bursary Act, 2014?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Does the Deputy Governor have any influence with regard to who is awarded bursaries?

No. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Why then would you rely on public participation? Ordinarily, just for the record, are you aware of anyone that has been given a bursary of more than Kshs5,000 in Kisii County?

Yes.

They should be able to sort out small issues. That is why they are leaders.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Let me just ask you, so that you just say ‘yes’ or ‘no.’ Are you aware that there was a disagreement about how the Governor runs the county from his home at Motonto?

Not true. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Are you aware of the alterations in the budget?

Not true, I sit in the budget committee. Not true. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Are you aware that the Ethics and Anti-Corruption Commission

(EACC)

is investigating alterations made on the budget?

Yes, I know there is a letter from the Controller of Budget (CoB) , but these are just concerns that come from CoB, which is normal.

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You will agree with me that most of the people that do not agree with the Governor are either interdicted, sacked or impeached, like the Deputy Governor. Is that correct?

That is not correct, Madam Temporary Speaker. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: To the best of your knowledge, there a lot of disputes with regard to governance. Are you aware that the Deputy Governor had disagreed with the Governor on small issues about governance?

They should be able to sort out small issues. That is why they are leaders.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Let me just ask you, so that you just say ‘yes’ or ‘no.’ Are you aware that there was a disagreement about how the Governor runs the county from his home at Motonto?

Not true. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Are you aware of the alterations in the budget?

Not true, I sit in the budget committee. Not true. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Are you aware that the Ethics and Anti-Corruption Commission

(EACC)

is investigating alterations made on the budget?

Yes, I know there is a letter from the Controller of Budget (CoB) , but these are just concerns that come from CoB, which is normal.

The 24 pages? The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Yes.

Madam Temporary Speaker, somebody has signed. There is a ‘received’ and a signature.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: So somebody has signed that they have received the Report?

Counsel Katwa Kigen, you are winding down your five minutes.The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Yes, I will be very brief, Madam Temporary Speaker. Good evening, Madam Karen?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Could you confirm that Page 24-51 is that public participation report?

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Very well. Number two, from Page 24 to 51, there is no reference anywhere to any video. True?

Counsel Kigen, that should be your final question. Wind up on that question. Let her answer you. Time is up.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: I just have one more question after this one, Madam Temporary Speaker.

There is no reference to a video. True?

No reference, Madam Temporary Speaker. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: I would like to take you to Page 103. That will be my last question. Page 103 of that bundle. You got it?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Okay. I want you to read the last paragraph. Does it say this, ‘Hon. Henry Moracha, Leader of the Majority, rose on Standing Order No.93 and sought an adjournment for purposes of public participation?’ Can you see that?

Yes, Madam Temporary Speaker. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: That is correct?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Can you confirm that when you adjourned for purposes of going for public participation, you did not provide funds to do this public participation? Can you confirm that?

Do you want me to explain because I cannot say ‘yes’ or ‘no.’

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Explain. I just want you to say---

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Very well. Number two, from Page 24 to 51, there is no reference anywhere to any video. True?

Counsel Kigen, that should be your final question. Wind up on that question. Let her answer you. Time is up.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: I just have one more question after this one, Madam Temporary Speaker.

There is no reference to a video. True?

No reference, Madam Temporary Speaker. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: I would like to take you to Page 103. That will be my last question. Page 103 of that bundle. You got it?

Sorry? The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Who conducted and compiled the public participation report?

This public participation was done by the Communications Department from the Assembly. They are the people who did the compliment.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Lastly, you have been accused of taking a picture and sending it to the sponsor of this Motion. Why did you take a photo of your vote?

Madam Temporary Speaker, it is not true and I was not under any instructions to send my photo. This is for my own reference.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Do you know the source of that photo? If you took it from your phone, how did it end up at the Senate?

I cannot say, but it is in my phone, Madam Temporary Speaker. I do not know how it came out. It was not a secret.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Lastly, is it unusual for MCAs to be lobbied and whipped to support a particular Motion in the County Assembly? Is it unusual?

It is very normal for a County Assembly, just like what happens in the Senate. Sometimes when the Government has a specific Motion or policy in the House, the Majority Leader is expected to lobby. So, it is normal to lobby.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Thank you very much. Mr. Mwangi seems to have one question.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Just two questions, Madam Temporary Speaker. Hon. Karen, was this the first time the Assembly was conducting public participation?

No, Madam Temporary Speaker. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Have you done it before?

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Was the public participation for the Motion on impeachment presented before the Assembly?

Sorry? The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Who conducted and compiled the public participation report?

This public participation was done by the Communications Department from the Assembly. They are the people who did the compliment.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Lastly, you have been accused of taking a picture and sending it to the sponsor of this Motion. Why did you take a photo of your vote?

Madam Temporary Speaker, it is not true and I was not under any instructions to send my photo. This is for my own reference.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Do you know the source of that photo? If you took it from your phone, how did it end up at the Senate?

I cannot say, but it is in my phone, Madam Temporary Speaker. I do not know how it came out. It was not a secret.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Lastly, is it unusual for MCAs to be lobbied and whipped to support a particular Motion in the County Assembly? Is it unusual?

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Mwangi Ndegwa): That is all.

I see two requests. Sen. Chute, have you requested to speak?

Yes, Madam Temporary Speaker, Sir,

Then you can proceed.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. It seems like we are in a Papa Shirandula episode here and, I wanted to ask the witness, on Page 36 of Volume I, on Masimba Ward. Were there no members of the public who were at the venue when the secretariat arrived? What can she say about that?

The second question is, how many people of those who participated were in support of the Deputy Governor or who were against the Deputy Governor? That is why public participation is required. Can she explain to us?

Madam Temporary Speaker, in the Masimba Ward Report, it is indicated that there were no members. When it is not properly advertised, public participation becomes an issue because you will realise that not many people read newspapers.

So, sometimes it is possible that the people of Masimba Ward did not get to see the advert in the newspaper because we were not doing local advertisements from local stations. It was the newspaper that was being used. So, I am assuming that it could have been possible, but most people were not able to reach out to this advert.

On the second question of how many were for the Deputy Governor and how many were for impeachment. I will say that the majority, about 80 per cent, were for the impeachment and 20 per cent were, of course, in defence of the Deputy Governor.

Sen. Karungo Thang’wa?

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Mwangi Ndegwa): That is all.

I see two requests. Sen. Chute, have you requested to speak?

Question number two, about the land balance of the Deputy Governor---

On the land question, maybe a different person will be better placed to answer it.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker.

Senator, that could be directed to a different person such as the counsel. Counsel, kindly respond to the second question as opposed to the witness responding to it.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I will draw the attention of the Senate to Page 284 of the bundle of documents by the county assembly. I confirm that the affidavit speaks about a situation of going concern. It speaks about an anticipated event.

If you look at the agreement, it is true it was done in July, 2022. The elections were to be conducted on 9th August, 2022. The agreement was that if he was to be successful then, he would employ six children for him, subsequent to which he would give him a set-off of Kshs300,000.

This is to confirm the impropriety and state of mind of the Deputy Governor; that he came to the county government with a purpose to enrich himself.

Most obliged.

That is the end of this witness’s evidence. We can now proceed to the next. How many more witnesses do you have? I believe it is one.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. We wish to announce that we have our last witness for today. His name is Mr. Rueben Monda.

How long is he going to take? The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Madam Temporary Speaker, at most 20 minutes.

Try and squeeze it to 15 minutes, if you can. Counsel Katwa, how long will you take cross-examining this witness?

Question number two, about the land balance of the Deputy Governor---

On the land question, maybe a different person will be better placed to answer it.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker.

Senator, that could be directed to a different person such as the counsel. Counsel, kindly respond to the second question as opposed to the witness responding to it.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I will draw the attention of the Senate to Page 284 of the bundle of documents by the county assembly. I confirm that the affidavit speaks about a situation of going concern. It speaks about an anticipated event.

If you look at the agreement, it is true it was done in July, 2022. The elections were to be conducted on 9th August, 2022. The agreement was that if he was to be successful then, he would employ six children for him, subsequent to which he would give him a set-off of Kshs300,000.

This is to confirm the impropriety and state of mind of the Deputy Governor; that he came to the county government with a purpose to enrich himself.

Most obliged.

Parliament to take medication. He also adds that the Senate summoned another witness, whom he wants to avail---

Sen. Omogeni, I heard him very well and I understood.

Maybe, we can get clarification if he has any witness outside waiting or we are---

Mr. Reuben Monda is out taking his medication, but there is one more witness who was summoned by the Senate. I was proposing that we take him---

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Madam Temporary Speaker, he has walked in.

He is here? Who is this now? Is this Mr. Robert Monda?

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Madam Temporary Speaker, this is Mr. Reuben Monda.

Okay, we can proceed with Reuben Monda. He could take a seat if he is not able to stand.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. If I heard counsel correctly, he says he had lined up Mr. Reuben Monda, but he seems to have left

Parliament to take medication. He also adds that the Senate summoned another witness, whom he wants to avail---

Sen. Omogeni, I heard him very well and I understood.

Maybe, we can get clarification if he has any witness outside waiting or we are---

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Do you understand what brings you this evening before the Senate?

I understand what brings me before the Senate. I have come here to seek justice for myself. I have come here because of the harassment and mistreatment that occurred to me when I was sick.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Allow me to lead you once more.

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Do you understand that your brother is facing an Impeachment Motion?

Yes, I understand that my brother is facing an Impeachment Motion

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Do you understand the consequences of the impeachment if it were to be upheld by the Senate?

Come up again. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Do you understand the consequences of this process if the Senate was to impeach him?

Yes, I understand the consequences. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: What are the consequences?

One, in Kisii County, we shall not be having chaos as we are having. We will not be harassed the way we are being harassed.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: So, you understand that this process will culminate into him losing his seat, yes?

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Do you understand what brings you this evening before the Senate?

I understand what brings me before the Senate. I have come here to seek justice for myself. I have come here because of the harassment and mistreatment that occurred to me when I was sick.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Allow me to lead you once more.