November 11, 2015 SENATEDEBATES

Wednesday, 11th November, 2015

Is the Chairperson, Committee on Agriculture, Livestock, Fisheries here?

Proceed, Sen. Ndiema.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am ready to issue the Statement, but the Senator who requested the Statement is not here, he could be on the way coming.

Sorry. Sen. Ndiema. What are you saying?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I do not seem to see the Senator who sought the Statement. Perhaps he is on the way coming.

Okay. Let us proceed to the next Statement. Where is the Chairperson Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, there was a request for a Statement on revenue collection from Samburu National Game Reserve (SNGR) by the Senator for Samburu County.

First, I wish to apologise because this request was made some time back. It has taken very long for the Ministry to respond. I want to respond as follows:

The Samburu National Game Reserve is managed solely by the County Government of Samburu. On gazettement, the ownership of land within which the reserve lies remained the property of the Samburu community. The County Government of Samburu holds the land in trust and manages the national game reserve on behalf of the community. The revenue collection and management of the game revenue is done by

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Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Chairperson should have read Article 207 of the Constitution of Kenya before replying to the statement. Immediately after the elections, the new Government changed all the revenue officers. They brought in a new firm illegally to collect funds. That is why I requested for the answer from the National Treasury. If you read Article 207 (1) it states:-

“There shall be established a Revenue Fund for each county government, into which shall be paid all money raised or received by or on behalf of the county government, except money reasonably excluded by an Act of Parliament.” This is very clear. The usage of those funds must either be given by an Act of Parliament. Article 207 (2) (a) states:-

“Money may be withdrawn from the Revenue Fund of a county government only—

Mr. Speaker, Sir, maybe the consultations were a bit loud, I could not hear much but there is something that the Chairperson has to clarify on the request for the amount of revenue collected by the reserve. His answer was that he could not get that figure from the national Government. I do not think a Committee can only get such information from the national Government. If it were so, other committees like Health would not be able to work.

Could the Chairperson give us that figure or tell us whether he is in the process of getting the total amount of revenue collected by that reserve? We need to know.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, what I said was very clear. The revenue collection for the game reserve is done by the county government. Although the Constitution provides for all revenues to be swept into the County Revenue Fund, in terms of the revenues which are collected and banked, the information can only come as a matter of fact from the Controller of Budget. Even then, the Controller of Budget normally gets the combined revenue which includes licenses and other revenue that is collected.

What I would request, if the Senator for Samburu County would indulge us, is to

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Mr. Speaker, Sir, is the able Chairperson in order to tell me to write to the Controller of Budget while he is mandated to get all the information to this House? This Statement does not belong to me; it belongs to the Senate.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I did not say “he writes”. I said our Committee will write to the Controller of Budget and ask her to provide us with the amount of revenue collected by the County Government of Samburu. I am sure even if he goes into the website of the Office of the Controller of Budget, he will get the same figures. Nonetheless, digital as we are, we will get the information for him.

Order, Senators! Let that matter rest. What is it Sen. (Dr.) Machage?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, evidently the answer was quite inadequate. The Chairperson himself has said he still has to write to the Controller of Budget to get that information. Would I, therefore, be in order to ask that this Statement be deferred to a later date for a proper answer?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, that is what I exactly said; that we request it be deferred. I sought the indulgence of the Member who sought the Statement so that we can bring the answer later.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I seek you direction. Three days ago, I was listening to a news item. I want to seek your clarity on this matter. I heard an attempt by the top executive try and redefine the Standing Orders of this House in terms of security of information. That they will now be submitting information, requested for by committees, through the Speaker.

Order, Sen. Hassan! Courtesy demands that you notify the Speaker that you have a matter. I thought it was related to the Statement. Time and again, I have said there are no ambushes entertained here.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to seek a Statement. Pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order No.45 (2) (b) I beg to seek a Statement from the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget, concerning the status of the National Youth Service (NYS) projects in the country for the 2015/16 Financial Year. In the statement, the Chairperson should explain:

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Mr. Speaker, Sir, I thought the question on NYS and their projects should fall under the Sessional Committee on Devolved Governments. I seek your guidance. He asked a specific Statement relating to NYS.

The majority part of the Statement sought is from your Committee. Just deal with the Statement. If you need support from the Sessional Committee on Devolution, I am sure it can be available to you.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, given the importance and significance of the Statement that is being sought in the current political situation we are in, I will need not less than two weeks to provide that information. I seek the indulgence of the Member to give us two weeks to provide that information.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to request for a Statement on the killing of two youths in Kajiado County by Kenya Wildlife Services Rangers.

Order! Hold on Sen. Mositet. Sen. Khaniri, what is your problem?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I did not get clearly when he wants to deliver his Statement. Yes, he appreciates it is urgent, then he says at least not less than two weeks. When he says that he is not clear, we do not know when to expect the Statement.

That is true. Chairperson, be specific.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, two weeks from now.

It is so ordered.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to request for two Statements

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Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the question of the people who were murdered close to the national parks, I will attempt to answer it within two weeks. I know that this kind of allegation has been going on both in Mt. Elgon as well as Isiolo, which we have investigated and will soon make our finding known to the House.

On the question of the KPC security system, I would like to be given two or one week.

In one or two weeks’ time?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, in one week’s time.

Sen. Ndiema, please, take the Floor before we conclude the order on Statements.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have a Statement to issue. Since the Senator for Nandi County is in, I am ready to proceed.

Proceed.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, Sen. Sang requested for a Statement from the Chairperson of the Committee on Agriculture regarding the declining profits in the tea industry. The questions were many and as you will recall, other honourable Senators rode on those questions and asked many more questions. Let me go directly to citing the questions and the answers.

The first question was on whether the Government is aware that the amount of tea bonuses to farmers has drastically declined in the last three years and reasons for the same.

The Government is aware that the final amount of tea bonus paid to farmers declined to Kshs35.5 billion in 2013 to Kshs19.8 billion in 2014. The payment has since risen to Kshs28.7 billion in 2015. However, it is important to note that the final bonus payment had earlier risen from Kshs30.5 billion in 2011 to Kshs33.9 billion and Kshs35.6 billion in 2012 and 2013 respectively.

The sharp decline in bonus payment in 2014 was attributed to the following:-

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Regional Avg. 14.00 31.04 45.04 14.00 19.49 33.49 11.55 34.90

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Regional Avg. 14.00 34.79 48.79 14.00 21.32 35.32 13.46 38.41

Regional Avg. 14.00 22.45 36.45 14.00 13.86 27.86 8.59 30.89

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Order, Chairman! Just summarize; you gave him 24 hours to study the document.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am just about to finish. This is the last one. Why there are only limited number of auctioneers who sell tea yet this is a free market: There are currently 12 brokers registered by the Tea Directorate to operate at Mombasa auction. However, tea regulations allow qualifying firms to be registered as and when they apply. The existence of adequate tea volume to be traded is also another factor that informs the number of brokerage firms in the auction.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I thank the Chairman for that response. However, I want to seek the following clarifications:-

First, the Chairman seems to blame the disparities in the amount of tea bonuses to the volumes. My request to him is to furnish us with the volumes per factory so that we can understand whether that contributes to that disparity.

Secondly, the Ministry has established a tea industry task force to look into the modalities of cooperation between county governments on issues regarding the tea industry. I would like the Chairman to clarify when we expect this task force to finalize its mandate, report and whether that report will be tabled in this House.

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Mr. Speaker, Sir, I also wish to thank the Vice Chairperson for the answer which he has given. However, according to me the 200,000 farmers in Western Kenya are not satisfied with that answer. I would like to seek further clarification on two areas. The first one is on auctioneers. The Kenya Tea Development Authority (KTDA) has limited the number of auctioneers who are able to sell KTDA tea in Mombasa to only 12.

Could the Vice Chairperson tell this House why there is this a limit on the number of brokers who are able to sell tea, yet this is a business? If the broker does not think that it is good business, they can leave and we can get another one.

Secondly, I would like to know the eight levies that are charged on tea. Which of the 42 previously charged levies were dropped? Lastly, I would like a clarification on one particular levy called Ad valorem levy, which has been reported as an incentive to exporters. Could the Vice Chairperson clarify whether this tax is really an incentive or disincentive to the exporters of particularly Kenyan tea?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, last time I asked the Vice Chairperson an almost similar question. He promised this House that once tea prices improve in the world, the construction of Kirinyaga Tea Factor will commence. What promise will he give now that the prices have improved?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I come from a tea growing county and, therefore, know the plight of the tea farmers quite well. I want to agree with Sen. Sang that the returns on tea have been diminishing. One of the reasons for this is because the Government does not have an elaborate plan on how we can process our own tea and add value before we export it. We export raw tea and that is why we get a raw deal. What elaborate plans does the Government have to ensure that we do not export raw but processed tea, that adds value?

Secondly, what plans does the Government have to remove VAT from locally sold tea?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the occasion of the last conference involving tea stakeholders, it became apparently clear that there were far too many taxes imposed on tea. We were told that there are 42 different levies. It was also demonstrated that there is one particular tax – the Ad valorem tax -which has a very negative impact. From the time this tax was introduced, at the end of 2012, tea sales dropped drastically.

Teas from neighbouring countries, which sell their tea through the Mombasa Auction, started gaining at the expense of Kenyan tea. This was demonstrated to have contributed to this sharp decline in profitability, affecting farmers’ earnings. We were

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Mr. Speaker, Sir, indeed, the issues raised by the Senators are valid. Since some of them had not been raised earlier, I may not have the answers. But I will go back and get answers.

On the task force, our Committee has made sure that it will certainly report to the Senate. In fact, we have our Clerk as a member of the task force. The draft regulations to deal with Ad valorem are already in the process. Therefore, reduction of ad valorem tax is on the way.

Regarding the 12 brokers, I said in my Statement that a request has been made by the Ministry to the Treasury to do away with VAT on tea sold locally. The request for the Statement did not include the names of the auctioneers, but I will provide that information together with other issues that may not have been clarified.

Regarding what the Government is doing to ensure value addition, this is a matter for the private sector. Nobody has prevented any entrepreneur or firm from value adding tea for export. That is open and the Government is ready to facilitate.

I promised that I would bring an answer as to when the factory in Kirinyaga will be constructed. I am still waiting for an answer, but that was a separate question, independent of this Statement.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. You did not allow the Members of the Committee to tell us when they will bring the statement that I requested for?

Is it the one to the Committee on Energy?

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Sen. Mwazo.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, we will respond in two weeks time.

It is so ordered. There was request by the Chair of the Committee on Land and Natural Resources to lay a document.

Sen. Khaniri.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am sorry that I was not ready to lay this document at the right time. Thank you for indulging me.

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There are two interventions; one from Sen. Hassan Omar and the other from Sen. Wetangula.

In appreciation of your gravitas, I will first give a chance to Sen. Wetangula.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Is what the Senate Minority Leader has requested for a question or Statement? Whenever a Member seeks a Statement in this House it must be written. But if you make certain statements, like the ones the Senate Minority Leader is making, how will the Chairperson follow from there on?

The Senate Minority Leader (Sen. Wetangula) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, first, I respectfully walked to the Chair and sought permission to rise and request for this Statement. The Chair dutifully, lawfully and graciously granted me the permission. That

November 11, 2015 SENATEDEBATES

Mr. Speaker, Sir, first, I respectfully walked to the Chair and sought permission to rise and request for this Statement. The Chair dutifully, lawfully and graciously granted me the permission. That

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Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise under Standing Order 45 (3) which states:- “A Senator who wishes to seek leave to raise a matter under paragraph (2)

Order, the Sen. Wetangula! I think you have finished your statement now. Chairperson, do you have something to respond?

What is it, Sen. Orengo?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is a very serious matter. With your indulgence, I know Sen. Haji will be able to deal with this and I have absolute confidence in him. However, an hour ago, another journalist, Alphonse Shiundu has also been summoned to appear at the Criminal Investigations Department (CID) . In fact, I have been requested by a group of journalists, the Kenya Union of Journalists and the Editors Guild to go and assist in taking him to the CID headquarters. It is now becoming a trend and I am happy because this is not necessarily a matter from this side of the House, I have seen Sen. Murkomen has made comments on this in the social media. Hon. Sakaja has equally done so. I thought Sen. Murkomen would have contributed in this by supporting the position of Sen. Wetangula.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, in that statement, can it be clear whether journalists are free to pursue their work without interference because what I was worried about was that the journalist who went to the CID headquarters was being told that he must disclose the source of his information?

Anybody who is arrested as a suspect or on account of commission of any offence, has a right under Article 50 of the Constitution, to remain silent. That has not changed.

So, in order to clear the air so that we can walk together in this journey of democracy without caring whether somebody is Jubilee or CORD, could the Chairperson come up with a statement and advise the Deputy Leader of Government Business that sometimes it is important to look at the big issues instead of little things which even in your area will make you look ridiculous on an important mission like this?

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Let me allow, Sen. Murkomen one more comment and then I rule on this matter.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I totally agree with my mentor and senior, Sen. Orengo when it comes to the substance. When Sen. Wetangula raised this issue, I was wondering about the digressions he had, talking about Itumbi and some other miscellaneous people who are not substantially involved in the issue that we are raising. That was my concern.

I want to follow on what Sen. Orengo said and ask the Chairperson in that statement to find out whether in this age and time of democracy, it would not be better for Government officers who are aggrieved by any act of journalist to take civil remedies instead of criminal sanctions. If we continue applying criminal sanctions on matters relating to journalism in the 21st Century, we may give the wrong impression that we are going back to the dark old days where people were held in-communicado, and where freedom of expression was not obeyed. If there are people who are insulted daily, it is us; whether on twitter, facebook, newspapers or rallies. Any person who is aggrieved should take civil remedy instead of going for criminal.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to ask the Chairperson to inform this House why CS for the Interior and National Coordination thought that it was not better to pursue a civil remedy if he was aggrieved instead of using criminal sanctions, particularly where the CS presides over a Ministry that is seen to be in charge of arresting. It would give the impression that there is also a possibility of misuse of office.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The last time I defended a journalist who had been arrested was Bramwel Njururi. Criminal libel has been declared unconstitutional in this Republic. My concern – even when the Chair is asking the question – is the inviolability of this House. I thought that it would be much better if you as the leader of this institution would issue a direction because the CS only singled out two people he would not arrest; his boss and his deputy.

That means, Mr. Speaker, myself and everybody else here is under siege or threat of being arrested for making a statement. So, a lot of us are not afraid of being arrested, but it would be much better for this country to know that Parliament where we operate is not a place where the CS can wag a finger in protest and all of us fear that we will be arrested and taken to CID or people would be waiting for us outside the gate. While we wait for the statement from the Chairperson, it would be much better for you to do a “Marende” and give direction.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. In democracies worldwide, public officers are beyond defamation. In fact, the senior counsel will tell you that in emerging democracies, whenever a public officer is accused of any wrong, the onus immediately shifts on that public officer to discharge the pardoned officer innocent. As we evolve as a nation, it is important for us to know that once a public office or public institution is alleged to have done anything, there can be no action against the alleger because then the burden of responsibility immediately shifts to that person.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to take a cue from Sen. Mutula Kilonzo jnr. In addition to what happened, I read in the media that these persons were arrested in the precincts of this Parliament. Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo was served in Parliament. This is supposed to

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Mr. Speaker, Sir, right from history and the biblical ages, that who God wants to destroy is first made mad, and that is common knowledge. Could this be the writing on the wall? What powers does the Cabinet Secretary (CS) have to order for an arrest? Could that be answered in the statement?

Hon. Senators, before I ask the Chairperson to respond, there were a number of points of order that were addressed to me, which must be disposed of. Sen. Murkomen raised the issue of the written statement and Sen. Keter raised the issue of 1.00 p.m. I want to agree with them. Members suggested that it was trivial. Sen. Keter, in particular, read from our Standing Orders that guide us, and that must be appreciated.

The request that the Senate Minority Leader made to me was to rise on a point of order so that he could ventilate. You can rise on a point of order at any time. That is what our Standing Orders require. To that extent, he was in order. However, I do not understand how he changed it into a statement to the Chairperson. That seems to be a good approach in the sense that the Committee should get into the bottom of this important issue.

Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. and Sen. Hassan said that only two people are excluded from arrests, but the rest of us, including the Speakers, could be arrested. I want to reconfirm that the Speaker does not act on his Motion. You need to canvass the matter with the Speaker and he will conduct the necessary investigations and give you a considered opinion.

Order, Sen. Wetangula! I am giving you a procedure which you are familiar with. For now, the decision that I made in the matter of Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo has always been and will remain the case even as we speak today.

Yes, Chairperson.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is a very straightforward matter. In view of the fact that you have ruled that the Committee should undertake thorough investigations, I reserve my own views about it, until that time. I undertake to take up the matter with the Cabinet Secretary concerned and report in the next one week.

Hon. Senators, I direct that the Chairperson brings this matter to the House on Tuesday, next week. I heard him talk of bringing it in less than a week. Tuesday is the earliest day for next week.

Chairperson, you are so directed.

November 11, 2015 SENATEDEBATES STATUS OF PREPAREDNESS OF IEBC FOR THE NEXT GENERAL ELECTION

Mr. Speaker, Sir, on 26th May, 2015, I sought a statement from the Chairperson of the Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights. My request was in respect of four parts and I have not received an answer in respect of what I raised, which pertains to the Independent Electoral and Boundaries Commission (IEBC) .

Order, Senator! We are not revisiting the statement; it is just a reminder.

Chairperson, Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want apologise to the Senator. I have no information with regard to that statement.

It seems like my colleague, Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr., has the statement.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the IEBC responded by bringing answers to many questions by Senators and we requested them to separate them. If you allow us, by Tuesday, we will have the response specifically on the request by Sen. Obure.

On behalf of the Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights, we apologise to him for the delay.

Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr., the apology does not have to come from you; your Chairperson has already done it. Your bit was just to tell us the complication.

That statement should be on the Order Paper on Tuesday, next week.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I want to seek clarity from the Chair. The media was discussing about confidentiality of information. I want to know whether there is any communication from the national Government on the manner upon which information shall be shared to Committees of Parliament. I saw it in the national media on a certain evening that Cabinet Secretaries and all offices have been directed that Committees requisition for any information can only be presented to the Speaker of Senate. In my view, that is a departure from the Standing Orders and the practice of this Parliament.

I, therefore, seek that clarity; if there is direction to that effect and whether any circular has been issued to this House, in respect to that type of communication?

Sen. Hassan, I can dispose of that one. This country is a constitutional democracy. The Constitution of Kenya, 2010 has Article 125, where any House or a Committee of the House can compel any person to be a witness and produce documents. I would not imagine any Cabinet Secretary, even in his or her

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Mr. Speaker, Sir, I thank you for your ruling. I substantially identify myself with that ruling and I am bound by the entire ruling like all of us are. However, I hope in future - because jurisprudence is made continually- you will give us an opportunity to canvass one point. On the first point on how many Senators are required to transact business, you have come out clearly and you have been consistent with that. I thank you for that. Notwithstanding the fact that both the Majority and the Minority side have had change of positions, I hope the Chair will appreciate that neither the Majority nor the Minority enjoy the impartiality and the clarity of mind that is associated with your Chair. We are guided by law, but there is a lot of tumult and uncertainty associated with pushing political agenda. I am saying this on behalf of the Majority side and also my brother the Senate Minority Leader who changed his position dramatically in this occasion. Lastly, on the question of the passing of a Presidential Memoranda through acceptance, I go on record that I agree with the ruling and I have a different view. I hope, in future, the Chair will give us an opportunity to canvass that point so that you can improve on the jurisprudence. The Senate Minority Leader (

He is on a point of order, but I think your point of order is allowing other points of order.

The Senate Minority Leader (Sen. Wetangula) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, you are right in affirming the duty of the Chair to be consistent. I also encourage that when the Chair takes a position, and on hindsight realises that a better position is around the corner, I want you to visit the words of Lord Denning when he said that you may hold a good idea, but a better idea arrives and you are duty bound to change your position. The best idea arrives and you are more duty bound to change your position.

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On a point of order. Mr. Speaker, Sir. The Senate Minority Leader talked about a category of people who change their mind and those who do not. Is he insinuating that the Chair belongs to that other category because your position has been consistent?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is the fifth time the Senate Minority Leader has been complaining so much about the proxy vote. However, when I look at Article 98 of the Constitution, I cannot see the word ‘proxy.’ The Article 98 (1) 9 (b) provides that:-

“Sixteen women members who shall be nominated by political parties according to their proportion of members of the Senate elected under clause (a) in accordance with Article 90”

In Article 123 (4) (b) that brings in the issue of delegation of voting it provides that:-

“The person who votes on behalf of a delegation shall determine whether or not to vote in support of, or against, the matter, after consulting the other members of the delegation.” Mr. Speaker, Sir, this means that the drafters of the Constitution knew that there shall be Members nominated by parties to the Senate and shall consult with the leaders of their respective delegations. Is he in order to refer to us as “proxies”?

Sorry Senator, instead of?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, instead of the delegations. Nominated Members are Members of delegations either of Nairobi or any other county. They are not proxy Members of a delegation. The issue is not the diction, but the word and the perception of the word.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, you are right in affirming the duty of the Chair to be consistent. I also encourage that when the Chair takes a position, and on hindsight realises that a better position is around the corner, I want you to visit the words of Lord Denning when he said that you may hold a good idea, but a better idea arrives and you are duty bound to change your position. The best idea arrives and you are more duty bound to change your position.

Can I dispose of those ones before I allow those other points of order with a lot of gusto?

On a point of order. Mr. Speaker, Sir. The Senate Minority Leader talked about a category of people who change their mind and those who do not. Is he insinuating that the Chair belongs to that other category because your position has been consistent?

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Sorry Senator, instead of?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, instead of the delegations. Nominated Members are Members of delegations either of Nairobi or any other county. They are not proxy Members of a delegation. The issue is not the diction, but the word and the perception of the word.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I stand on a point of order to seek a clarification from the Chair. First, would it be in order if I asked the Chair to

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Hon. Senators, first, I want to agree that I did not address the issue of proxy vote according to the Senate Minority Leader. I was dealing with more substantive constitutional issues. I must admit this is a matter I have agonised over time. I have given it my best shot. I want to thank the leadership for appreciating as much even if they have some disagreements here and there.

Both leaders of the House said that even the Speaker can change opinion. As the Senate Minority Leader talked about Lord Denning, I thought he would take the words of the late former Vice President Kijana Wamalwa. That is the one who was alive with us, especially at a time when there was a serious political question to be addressed. He said in Nanyuki that ‘a good idea must give way to a better idea’.

I want to invite the leadership that if you come up with a better idea, my good idea will give way. However, you must convince me that it is a better idea than my good idea. So, that should not be in contest. I appreciate the political positions you have. That is why you have the Chair. I qualify my statement that I remain consistent when the same set of facts obtain. It is not just being obstinate. It is after examination of the facts around a particular issue that you realize they are the same.

I will not accord the Senate Minority Leader the opportunity to be a teacher to the Speaker. I will certify it to have an excellent command of the English language.

On the proxy vote matter, Sen. Elachi has contested. I believe that the Senate Minority Leader was not using it with a desire to impute improper motives. My understanding was just a plain reading of the English. The Constitution appreciates that the vote is sealed by the leader of the delegation. However, the leader of the delegation can delegate that vote to any other Member of his delegation. That is the way I understood the proxy bit.

However, Sen. Wetangula since you have been advising the Speaker, a reasonable advice from a fair lady can be taken into account. In my other profession called Economics, there is something called optimality. If you can improve your welfare on a particular section of a cap., without affecting others, the welfare of society has improved. So, if by not using that word, you make a segment of our society within the Senate happy and you are not disadvantaged, then the better for all us. That is something you should reconsider.

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Order, Members! The Standing Orders allow for that. The gentleman’s agreement was not outlawed. It is still operational for purposes of ensuring the passage of any issue that requires that particular threshold. We put the matter on hold, pending confirmation from the Senate Majority Leader. That should also be applicable to order Nos.10 and 11. We should, therefore, go to Order No.12.

November 11, 2015 SENATEDEBATES CONSIDERATION OF THE PRESIDENTIAL MEMORANDUM ON THE PUBLIC AUDIT BILL (NATIONAL ASSEMBLY BILL NO. 38 OF 2014)

Madam Temporary Speaker, I rise under Standing Order No. 54 (3) --- The Temporary Chairperson (

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November 11, 2015 SENATEDEBATES PROGRESS REPORTED

Okay. Next Order!

I will now put the question. (Question proposed) (Question put and agreed to) (The House resumed)

Most obliged.

consulted with the Clerk-at-the-Table) The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Ongoro) : Hon. Senators, we are now in the Committee of the Whole to consider The County Early Childhood Education Bill (Senate Bill No.32 of 2014) . Clause 3

The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Ongoro) : There are no amendments on Clause 3.

Clause 4

Clause 5

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Because of the same challenge that made us defer the previous Order, we will also defer Order No.13.

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Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move:- THAT Clause 7 of the Bill be amended-

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move:- THAT Clause 8 of the Bill be amended-

Most obliged. (The Temporary Chairperson (

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Hon. Senators, we are now in the Committee of the Whole to consider The County Early Childhood Education Bill (Senate Bill No.32 of 2014) . Clause 3 The Temporary Chairperson (

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move:- THAT, Clause 36 of the Bill be amended-

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Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move:- THAT Clause 5 of the Bill be amended in sub-clause (1) , by inserting the words “in a public education centre” immediately after the words “childhood education.” Madam Temporary Chairperson, the purpose of this amendment is to clarify that every child has the right to free and compulsory early childhood education in public education centres. (Question of the amendment proposed) The Temporary Chairperson (

Madam Temporary Chairperson, on behalf of the Chairperson, I beg to move:-

THAT, Clause 40 of the Bill be amended in sub clause (2) by inserting the words “and the respective Parents Teachers Association”

November 11, 2015 SENATEDEBATES

November 11, 2015 SENATEDEBATES

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move:- THAT Clause 7 of the Bill be amended-

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move:- THAT Clause 8 of the Bill be amended-

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move:- THAT Clause 20 of the Bill be amended in sub-clause (2) by deleting the word “principal” appearing immediately after the words “whether or not the” and substituting therefor the word “proprietor”.

November 11, 2015 SENATEDEBATES

November 11, 2015 SENATEDEBATES

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move:- THAT, Clause 49 of the Bill be amended in sub-clause (2) by inserting the words “and the respective Parent Teachers Association” immediately after the words “County Education Board” appearing in paragraph (b) .

Madam Temporary Chairperson, the amendment seeks to incorporate the Parent Teachers Association in a consultative process through which charges in relation to tuition at Early Childhood centres may be imposed.

Clause 51

November 11, 2015 SENATEDEBATES

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move:- THAT, Clause 35 of the Bill be amended by inserting the following new paragraphs immediately after paragraph

(c)

-

(ca)

academic progress assessment reports in relation to each child who is registered in the education centre;

(cb)

a record of the immunizations administered with respect to each child who is registered in the education centre; Madam Temporary Chairperson, this amendment seeks to expand the record keeping requirements imposed on an early childhood education centre by requiring the centre to keep a record of academic progress reports of the children enrolled in the centre and a record of immunization administered.

Clause 36

November 11, 2015 SENATEDEBATES

November 11, 2015 SENATEDEBATES

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I am a Member of the Committee on Education. On behalf of the Chairperson, I beg to move:-

THAT, the Bill be amended by deleting Clause 37. Madam Temporary Chairperson, the amendment seeks to remove the aspect of recruitment committee from the ambit of the Bill. Recruitment of early childhood education teachers will be carried out by the TSC.

Clause 39

Madam Temporary Chairperson, on behalf of the Chairperson, I beg to move:-

THAT, the Bill be amended by deleting Clause 39 and substituting therefor the following new clause- Recruitment of early childhood teachers.

Madam Temporary Chairperson, on behalf of the Chairperson, I beg to move:-

THAT, Clause 40 of the Bill be amended in sub clause (2) by inserting the words “and the respective Parents Teachers Association”

November 11, 2015 SENATEDEBATES

Madam Temporary Chairperson, on behalf of the Chairperson, I beg to move:-

THAT, Clause 42 of the Bill be amended-

Madam Temporary Chairperson, on behalf of the Chairperson, I beg to move:-

THAT, Clause 43 of the Bill be amended by deleting the words “A public” appearing immediately before the words “education centre” and substituting therefor the word “An”. Madam Temporary Chairperson, this amendment seeks to proscribe the administering of admission examinations by all early childhood education centres.

November 11, 2015 SENATEDEBATES

Madam Temporary Chairperson, on behalf of the Chairperson, I beg to move:- THAT, Clause 45 of the Bill be amended-

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move:- That Clause 47 of the Bill be amended-

November 11, 2015 SENATEDEBATES

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move:- THAT, Clause 49 of the Bill be amended in sub-clause (2) by inserting the words “and the respective Parent Teachers Association” immediately after the words “County Education Board” appearing in paragraph (b) .

Madam Temporary Chairperson, the amendment seeks to incorporate the Parent Teachers Association in a consultative process through which charges in relation to tuition at Early Childhood centres may be imposed.

Clause 51

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move:- THAT, the Bill be amended by deleting Clause 52 and substituting therefor the following new clause-

November 11, 2015 SENATEDEBATES

Madam Temporary Speaker, I beg to move that the Senate do agree with the Committee in the said report.

Sen. (Prof.) Lesan seconded.

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move:- THAT, Clause 68 of the Bill be amended in sub-clause (1) by deleting the words “sub-section (1) ” appearing immediately after the words “specified under” and substituting therefor the words “sub-section (2) ”

Madam Temporary Chairperson, this amendment seeks to clarify on the correct sub-section referred to.

Clause 69

This Bill is deferred.

November 11, 2015 SENATEDEBATES

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move:- THAT, Clause 71 of the Bill be amended in sub-clause (1) by deleting the words “the relevant period for registration” appearing immediately after the words “licensed for” and substituting therefor the words “a period of one year after the commencement of this Act”.

Madam Temporary Chairperson, this amendment seeks to provide for a transition period of one year for all Early Childhood Education centres that will be in existence at the coming into effect of the law. The amendment proposes that such centres shall hold their licences for one year after which they will have to seek registration under the present proposed law.

Clause 73

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move:- THAT, Clause 73 of the Bill be amended in sub-clause (1) by deleting the words “County Education Board” appearing immediately after the words “consultation with the” and substituting therefor the words “Council of County Governors”.

Madam Temporary Chairperson, this amendment seeks to provide that the Cabinet Secretary responsible for education shall make regulations in consultation with the Council of Governors for carrying out the law in a better way.

November 11, 2015 SENATEDEBATES

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move:- THAT, the First Schedule to the Bill be amended in item 2 by deleting the word “fifteen” appearing immediately after the words “not more than” and substituting therefor the word “forty.” This amendment seeks to provide one of the requirements of suitable premises; that a classroom in an Early Childhood Development Education

(ECDE)

centre shall not hold more than 40 children.

Second Schedule

Clause 2

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move:- THAT, Clause 2 of the Bill be amended-

November 11, 2015 SENATEDEBATES

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move that the Committee of the Whole do report progress on its consideration of The County Early Childhood Education Bill (Senate Bill No. 32 of 2014) and seek leave to sit again tomorrow.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to report that the Committee of the Whole has considered The County Early Childhood Education Bill (Senate Bill No. 32 of 2014) and seeks leave to sit again tomorrow.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I beg to move that the Senate do agree with the Committee in the said report.

Sen. (Prof.) Lesan seconded.

This Bill is deferred.

This Bill is also deferred.

November 11, 2015 SENATEDEBATES

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the Motion that I was supposed to move is very emotive. The Motion touches on a very important issue concerning the two- thirds gender rule that has been debated in this country for some time. I beg that you allow me to move it tomorrow when we have a full House because I want all the Senators to have the benefit of listening to what we have as women and we are putting on the table as a proposal.

I order that the Motion be put in tomorrow’s Order Paper as requested by the sponsor.

Order, Members! It is now time to interrupt the business of the House. The House stands adjourned until tomorrow, Thursday, 12th November 2015 at 2.30 p.m.

The Senate rose at 5.30 p.m.