Wednesday, 10th July, 2024 Morning Sitting

Clerk, could you confirm if we have the quorum? We have no quorum. Serjeant-at-Arms, kindly ring the Quorum Bell for 10 minutes.

Clerk, could you please, confirm if we now have quorum?

Serjeant-at-Arms, please ring the Quorum Bell for a further five minutes.

Clerk, I have been made to understand that there is a committee sitting when the session is supposed to be commencing. That should not happen. It is a violation when the Senate is in session. Committees should not be sitting unless they have special permission.

Could you please, recall the Standing Committee on Finance and Budget Members to come to the House and be part of the proceedings this morning?

Clerk, can you confirm the quorum?

(The Clerk-at the-Table consulted with the Temporary Speaker) Hon. Senators, we now have a quorum and, therefore, the session can commence. Clerk, call out Order No.1

Hon. Senators, it is now Question Time. We have several Cabinet Secretaries who are scheduled to appear this morning, the first one being the Prime Cabinet Secretary and Cabinet Secretary for Foreign and Diaspora Affairs. I am made to understand that he is around and ready to take the Floor.

I am just giving it one minute for him to walk into the Chambers.

was ushered into the Chamber) Hon. Senators, the Prime Cabinet Secretary is now in the House. The Prime Cabinet Secretary, Your Excellency (Dr.) Musalia Mudavadi, we take this opportunity to welcome you to the House.

The Senators had sent a few questions for you to answer. You have Question Nos. 037 and 040, which emanated from Sen. (Dr.) Boni Khalwale and Sen. (Prof.) Tom Ojienda. I believe you have done the responses because the Senate has been waiting to engage with you.

I now invite Sen. (Dr.) Boni Khalwale to ask his Question. Question No.037

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker.

Prime Cabinet Secretary, it is your chance to answer those questions.

The Prime Cabinet Secretary and Cabinet Secretary for Foreign and Diaspora Affairs

: Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I do not know whether I am audible.

Yes, you are. The Prime Cabinet Secretary and Cabinet Secretary for Foreign and Diaspora Affairs

: Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker.

You are not too audible; I do not know why the volume is quite low. Technical team, could you improve that? I can hear him well, but I am not sure whether the Senators at the back can hear him.

You may proceed. The Prime Cabinet Secretary and Cabinet Secretary for Foreign and Diaspora Affairs

: Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker.

On the first question--- The Temporary Speaker

: Technical team, you need to sort out the system. There is noise coming to the Chamber from your corner.

Proceed, Hon. Cabinet Secretary. The Prime Cabinet Secretary and Cabinet Secretary for Foreign and Diaspora Affairs

: Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker.

I wish to state that there are thousands of Kenyans in the Gulf countries who are employed in various sectors.

Hold a bit, Hon. Cabinet Secretary. Take your seat.

Technical team, we have a problem. We do not know where that microphone noise is coming from, but it is disrupting the proceedings. Can you clear the sound system?

You may proceed, Hon. Cabinet Secretary. The Prime Cabinet Secretary and Cabinet Secretary for Foreign and Diaspora Affairs

: Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker.

I was saying that there are thousands of Kenyans in the Gulf countries, and I will tabulate the data available. We have in total over 400,000 Kenyans in the Gulf States tabulated as follows; Saudi Arabia, there are 310,266 Kenyans. In Qatar, 66,025; United Arab Emirates (UAE) , 23,000; Bahrain, 8,000; Oman, 5,392; Kuwait, 3,515; Iran, 200 and Iraq; 150. The total record we have as of to date is 416,548.

I wish to further state as follows: Kenyans in these territories exhibit high movement between various Gulf States. The numbers given, therefore, constitute periodic statistics derived from our missions in these countries further corroborated through official sources of the host governments.

It should be noted that not all Kenyans register with our missions abroad despite being sensitized on the importance of such registrations. Hence, sometimes it is difficult to have very precise data. Under the circumstances, it is not easy at this stage to be able to say that we can avail all the identities of these 416,000 individuals in the Gulf states.

Technical team, you need to sort out the system. There is noise coming to the Chamber from your corner. Proceed, Hon. Cabinet Secretary. The Prime Cabinet Secretary and Cabinet Secretary for Foreign and Diaspora Affairs (Hon. Musalia Mudavadi) : Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I wish to state that there are thousands of Kenyans in the Gulf countries who are employed in various sectors.

Madam Temporary Speaker, the second question was how many Kenyans have lost their lives working in the Gulf states from 2002 to date? The records that we have show that the total number of Kenyans who have lost their lives in the Gulf region is 316. The breakdown is as follows: Saudi Arabia, 166; Qatar, 58; UAE, 51; Iraq, 25; Bahrain, 10; Kuwait, six; Oman, nil and Iran, nil. The total is 316.

On aspect (c) of the Question, the issue is what support the Government provides to families of Kenyans who die overseas and if I could provide details on Mildred.

Madam Temporary Speaker, the second question was how many Kenyans have lost their lives working in the Gulf states from 2002 to date? The records that we have show that the total number of Kenyans who have lost their lives in the Gulf region is 316. The breakdown is as follows: Saudi Arabia, 166; Qatar, 58; UAE, 51; Iraq, 25; Bahrain, 10; Kuwait, six; Oman, nil and Iran, nil. The total is 316.

On aspect (c) of the Question, the issue is what support the Government provides to families of Kenyans who die overseas and if I could provide details on Mildred.

Thank you Cabinet Secretary. Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, you now have an opportunity to clarify any issues that you have by asking two questions. You could ask one now and another later or you could ask both right away to the Cabinet Secretary.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I want to ask two questions. One now, then give colleagues an opportunity to raise their issues. Then the second one at the end.

It is the policy of the Government, at least going by the pronouncements of the President on many occasions, that we try and assist as many youths as possible to get employment opportunities outside the country. Is it not shocking that despite that policy, the Prime Cabinet Secretary is not able to tell the country the identities of the Kenyans working outside the country and that a whopping 316 of them have died while out of the country. It shows that this answer will not only bolster the employers who in one way or the other contribute to the death of these people, but will also discourage parents from---

Yes, Madam Temporary Speaker, I know where you are going.

Senator, you do not know where I am going because I have not indicated. I want you to phrase your question. What you are giving now are views or debating the matter. You must phrase a clear, concise, and precise question.

Yes, Madam Temporary Speaker. On a complex issue like this of death, I believe Senators are allowed to build the question. I was building the question, but let me leave it there. I will not build it any further.

importance. I would beg that you make it precise, short, and clear, so that the Prime Cabinet Secretary can respond.

importance. I would beg that you make it precise, short, and clear, so that the Prime Cabinet Secretary can respond.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. What was I building to is that: Could the Prime Cabinet Secretary be compelled to table the list of all Kenyans working in these Gulf States, so that the parents and relatives can be reassured that the Government is on top of things as far as their lives are concerned?

Prime Cabinet Secretary, please respond.

The Prime Cabinet Secretary and Cabinet Secretary for Foreign and Diaspora Affairs

: Madam Temporary Speaker, I wish to state that we can avail that information based on the records that we have within the embassies because we are talking of - to be precise - 416,058 individuals. We can work on having this brought to the Senate.

I can only appeal on one issue that as we give the identities, you will need to guide us on whether we will be breaching some aspects of the data identity issues by tabling all the 416,058. That is the only question, but we are prepared to give this list.

Tabling of that data will be subject to the Data Protection Act. So, the data may be tabled, but subject to compliance with the existing laws within those parameters so that the individuals are equally protected as that evidence is being given. It will then be subject to release for examination by the Senator who is requesting for it and not for public display without the consent of individuals who are working in the Gulf.

Hon. Senators, you now have an opportunity to ask questions, but make sure you are not building the way Sen. Boni Khalwale was building, to save on time so that we can accommodate many more.

Sen. Nderitu Kinyua?

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. The question that I wanted to ask is the same question that Sen. Boni asked. We need a specificity. At least I am happy that it tabulated the numbers. I wanted him to specify what our 416,058 people are doing, in terms of professionals. Are they teachers, doctors or house helps?

Again, when you travel outside, when you meet with our people, most of the people that we talk to do not seem that they are facilitated by our Embassy. Most of them complain that they are humiliated in our embassies.

Thank you.

might be seen as a lack of courtesy, they are very limited. Most of the mission staff in our embassies have been very courteous to the Kenyan citizens abroad.

The Temporary Speaker (Sen. Veronica Maina) Thank you. Senator Osotsi.

might be seen as a lack of courtesy, they are very limited. Most of the mission staff in our embassies have been very courteous to the Kenyan citizens abroad.

The Temporary Speaker (Sen. Veronica Maina) Thank you. Senator Osotsi.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. Allow me to thank the Prime Cabinet Secretary, who is also from my county, and a friend, for appearing before the Senate.

I represent a county that has a major problem with what we are discussing now. Every year we have more than 12 cases, which are reported to me. On various occasions, I have brought questions and even engaged the Ministry of Foreign and Diaspora Affairs on the same. So what I would request the Prime Cabinet Secretary is if it is possible to give a breakdown of these figures per county, so that we can understand the extent of the problem.

Number two; in the process of dealing with this problem that is common in my county, there are occasions where we are told that some of these people travel to those countries through unregistered cartels of some recruitment agencies, which are not licensed by the Government. Therefore, there is every possibility that those who die and were taken there by these recruitment agencies, possibly the Government does not have their data. What is the Ministry doing about this? The issue of unregistered and scrupulous recruitment agencies who take advantage of the plight of these girls and boys to recruit them through illegal means, and then these people end up dying or harmed in those countries, what is the Government doing about this?

Thank you.

have a Sessional Paper that will be brought to Parliament. Some of these issues we would like to draw from the knowledge and experience of Parliament, so that we can improve how we engage with foreign countries on some of these issues. However, we are taking steps to change the situation.

have a Sessional Paper that will be brought to Parliament. Some of these issues we would like to draw from the knowledge and experience of Parliament, so that we can improve how we engage with foreign countries on some of these issues. However, we are taking steps to change the situation.

Okay, thank you. Senator George Mungai Mbugua.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I want the Prime Cabinet Secretary to tell this House how far the operationalisation of the Migrant Welfare Fund has reached.

Thank you.

The Prime Cabinet Secretary?

Sen Beatrice Akinyi Ogola.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I thank the Prime Cabinet Secretary for finding time to come to answer our questions, and probably to guide fellow Cabinet Secretaries that the questions we ask here are on behalf of the Kenyans that they are appointed to lead.

My question to the Prime Cabinet Secretary is, why does it take the Embassy sometimes a long time to respond to the distress calls of Kenyans, especially in the Gulf? Taking into consideration that the Government is capable of tracing the details of Kenyans as they exit and as they enter those countries at the immigration points.

Thank you.

The Prime Cabinet Secretary?

particular area provides employment to our people? It should be cascaded to the county level so that they can know which agencies are credible where Kenyans can get employment through them.

I thank you.

particular area provides employment to our people? It should be cascaded to the county level so that they can know which agencies are credible where Kenyans can get employment through them.

I thank you.

Proceed, Hon. Prime Cabinet Secretary.

The Prime Cabinet Secretary and Cabinet Secretary for Foreign and Diaspora Affairs

: Madam Temporary Speaker, first of all the agencies that are registered are available on the National Employment Authority

(NEA)

website. This information is also shared with the National Government Administration Officers

(NGAO)

. This is how we cascade it through the county commissioners all the way down, so that this information is available at the district and county offices as well.

One that thing that remains is that through this NEA, there are regulations, and we are trying to weed out all the entities that do not fit the bill and that are not fit for purpose. This is an ongoing process, and we are also ready to receive any further ideas on how we can tighten the noose around the bad elements from this House and other Kenyans.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. Let me start by appreciating the Prime Cabinet Secretary for the good job that we have been doing as far as digital literacy is concerned through the International Certificate of Digital Literacy (ICDL) . I take this opportunity to appreciate you.

Additionally, I want to inform you that I am the sponsor of the Labour Migration Management Bill that you have mentioned. It is my Bill and we can work together to sort these issues. I have two questions; what memorandum of understanding do you have currently in your office with the Gulf countries where our people are working and are there any rescue centres in these particular regions?

I thank you.

Proceed, Hon. Prime Cabinet Secretary.

The Prime Cabinet Secretary and Cabinet Secretary for Foreign and Diaspora Affairs

: Thank you Madam Temporary Speaker. There are 19 MoUs that are being negotiated on as we speak. We are quite advanced with Qatar, United Arab Emirates and Saudi Arabia where we have a few rescue centres. We have a rescue center in Saudi Arabia.

We are looking for resources and this is a conversation we had with the Committee on Finance and Budget of Parliament to be able to obtain resources, so that we can put up more rescue centres. That is one of the biggest challenges that we face. Once we have sufficient resources, we shall roll out a few rescue centres.

went to raise this question on the case of Joshua Mankone Amenya who is held up in Somaliland.

Could the Prime Cabinet Secretary give us an update on whether there has been any progress to secure the freedom of this Kenyan held in Somaliland?

Secondly, just a clarification on the response by the Cabinet Secretary. He says that Kenyans are attracted to work in the Gulf States because those countries provide high economic prospects for Kenyans. Could the Cabinet Secretary kindly give us a breakdown on the earnings of Kenyans who work in the construction industry, agricultural industry and the domestic workers? How much do they earn in those countries?

I thank you.

went to raise this question on the case of Joshua Mankone Amenya who is held up in Somaliland.

Could the Prime Cabinet Secretary give us an update on whether there has been any progress to secure the freedom of this Kenyan held in Somaliland?

Secondly, just a clarification on the response by the Cabinet Secretary. He says that Kenyans are attracted to work in the Gulf States because those countries provide high economic prospects for Kenyans. Could the Cabinet Secretary kindly give us a breakdown on the earnings of Kenyans who work in the construction industry, agricultural industry and the domestic workers? How much do they earn in those countries?

I thank you.

Hon. Prime Cabinet Secretary, can you respond to that?

The Prime Cabinet Secretary and Cabinet Secretary for Foreign and Diaspora Affairs

: Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I must state that on the issue of their level of earnings that is data that would require a little more time to obtain. We might not get the precise amount, but we might try to get the salary range or brackets and then we can also avail that.

On the issue of Mr. Joshua Mankone Amenya, I wish to state that, indeed, it is true that the hon. Senator did see me in the office with our other senior citizens like the former Chief Justice David Maraga, the parents of Mr. Amenya, and his wife. I wish to state that after the conversation we had, I did call the representatives of Somaliland and we held talks regarding the unfair treatment and incarceration of Mr. Amenya. They then said that they would be going back to their headquarters and come back with an updated position. Unfortunately, to this date they have not come back with a comprehensive response as to why they continue to hold this gentleman.

I would also like to let the Members know that I am referring to Somaliland and not the federal government of the Republic of Somalia. We have not talked of pursuing the agenda. I continue to push it personally so that we can have a response and hopefully facilitate the release of Mr. Joshua Amenya because the circumstances under which he is being held, from where we sit, are clearly unreasonable.

I thank you.

Thank you, Prime Cabinet Secretary. The Senate Majority Leader, Sen. Aaron Cheruiyot, proceed.

agreements are only for menial jobs, but not professional working opportunities for educated Kenyans. Therefore, if we can have a timeline, we would appreciate that because we have had this conversation for a while. Can he give a commitment before this House that by such-and-such a time, we will have concluded on these agreements? I know it is a cross-cutting issue between his Ministry and the Ministry of Labour and Social Protection, but that is where his cap of the Prime Cabinet Secretary comes in handy as his duties overlap as well.

agreements are only for menial jobs, but not professional working opportunities for educated Kenyans. Therefore, if we can have a timeline, we would appreciate that because we have had this conversation for a while. Can he give a commitment before this House that by such-and-such a time, we will have concluded on these agreements? I know it is a cross-cutting issue between his Ministry and the Ministry of Labour and Social Protection, but that is where his cap of the Prime Cabinet Secretary comes in handy as his duties overlap as well.

The Prime Cabinet Secretary,

Thank you. Sen. Onyonka Richard.

and conditions are. I, therefore, hope that when the Minister signs those agreements, he will enable the Committee on Labour and Social Welfare of the Senate to interrogate that agreement and make sure that we understand what is in it, what we have gained and if any, what the terms and conditions are.

Madam Temporary Speaker, the last issue is a continuum of the last question. I do not know whether the Prime Cabinet Secretary is aware of what is in the social media. Somebody posted that they are currently in Iowa, in the United States of America (USA) and all of the 400 Kenyans working in Iowa come from one Kenyan community.

The question I would like to ask is whether the Prime Cabinet Secretary is aware that his Government is recruiting individuals according to their tribe and shipping them to whichever country they are going to work and whether he is trying to solve that problem, given the fact that Kenyans are expecting equity and fairness when these opportunities and also given the fact that us, Senators, represent county governments.

Can the Prime Cabinet Secretary promise this House that when those positions come out and are going to be distributed to Kenyans, especially those ones targeting certain areas, that all our 47 counties are going to be included and will get their small share of the cake of whatever the Government is baking?

and conditions are. I, therefore, hope that when the Minister signs those agreements, he will enable the Committee on Labour and Social Welfare of the Senate to interrogate that agreement and make sure that we understand what is in it, what we have gained and if any, what the terms and conditions are.

Madam Temporary Speaker, the last issue is a continuum of the last question. I do not know whether the Prime Cabinet Secretary is aware of what is in the social media. Somebody posted that they are currently in Iowa, in the United States of America (USA) and all of the 400 Kenyans working in Iowa come from one Kenyan community.

The question I would like to ask is whether the Prime Cabinet Secretary is aware that his Government is recruiting individuals according to their tribe and shipping them to whichever country they are going to work and whether he is trying to solve that problem, given the fact that Kenyans are expecting equity and fairness when these opportunities and also given the fact that us, Senators, represent county governments.

Can the Prime Cabinet Secretary promise this House that when those positions come out and are going to be distributed to Kenyans, especially those ones targeting certain areas, that all our 47 counties are going to be included and will get their small share of the cake of whatever the Government is baking?

Thank you, hon. Prime Cabinet Secretary. Sen. Lomenen, proceed.

Thank you, hon. Prime Cabinet Secretary. Sen. Lomenen, proceed.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. Is the Prime Cabinet Secretary aware of the Ethiopian military, which has infiltrated a place called Anona in Sololo Sub-County in Marsabit?

Sen. Lomenen, there is a cardinal principle that when asking questions, they must be an offshoot of the primary question that brought the Cabinet Secretary here. Is your Supplementary Question in line with that policy?

Yes.

How?

It is about infiltration of Ethiopian military in Sololo Sub-county in Marsabit.

I guide you to phrase that Question, give it to the Secretariat and give an opportunity to the Prime Cabinet Secretary to come and substantively respond to such a crucial and important Question.

It does not emanate from the data he is dealing with on Kenyans working in the Gulf. Consult Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, he will give you the primary question that was asked.

Thank you.

Okay, thank you.

Sen. Faki, proceed.

Asante Bi. Spika wa muda kwa kunipa fursa hii. Kwanza nampongeza Waziri kwa taarifa aliyotoa. Niko na swali moja ambalo limegawanyika pande mbili. Je, Serikali inajua kwamba kuna Mkenya anayeitwa Stephen Bertrand Munyakho, Passport No.A353019, ambaye kwa sasa yuko Saudi Arabia na anatajiwa kuuwawa kupitia hukumu ya kifo mnamo tarehe 26 mwezi huu wa saba.

Ni jambo gani Serikali ya Kenya inafanya kuhakikisha kwamba maisha ya Mkenya huyo, aliyeshtakiwa kwa makosa ya kuua bila kukusudia yameokolewa na arudi Kenya ajiunge na familia yake pamoja na wakenya wengine?

Suali la pili ni kuhusu Mkenya mwengine anayeitwa Nickson Daudi Mwango ambaye alihukumiwa kwa makosa ambayo mahakama haikumpata na hatia ila kwa sasa amewachiliwa lakini yuko katika jela Mjini Riyadh, Saudi Arabia.

Anatarajiwa kurudishwa nyumbani kwa sababu ya kumaliza kesi hiyo. Mwisho---

You should only ask a maximum of two Questions.

Bi. Spika wa muda, Swali langu linalingana na hayo mengine.

Sen. Faki, let him respond to those two. I have five more Senators here and we need to move to the next Question.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker.

Yes, we are aware of the case of Stephen Bertrand Munyakho, who was incarcerated on a case of manslaughter in Riyadh. A few weeks ago, I wrote officially to the Foreign Minister of Saudi Arabia, intervening that this individual should not be executed.

That execution was deferred; it did not take place. I also had the opportunity to meet the mother of Stephen Bertrand Munyakho and we had a conversation. The challenge is that there is a proposal that is being mooted by the family of the person who died, that they be compensated to the tune of Kshs150 million. The family has raised about Kshs10 million, and they continue to try and raise more money. This is what they call blood money, some financial settlement for that.

It would be remiss of me not to notify the nation and Parliament that there is no budgetary provision for the Government to settle this kind of situation, whether in Saudi or any other country. However, the Ministry and the Government is doing what it can to see if this matter can be resolved differently, and if the family that lost their individual can perhaps climb down from the high level of Kshs150 million, so that this case can be resolved. It is work in progress, it is a conversation that is ongoing.

The second one, which you talked about, we are yet to obtain information. I will not be able to respond immediately to that specific one. We will need a little more time to get more details on that one.

Yes, we are aware of the case of Stephen Bertrand Munyakho, who was incarcerated on a case of manslaughter in Riyadh. A few weeks ago, I wrote officially to the Foreign Minister of Saudi Arabia, intervening that this individual should not be executed.

That execution was deferred; it did not take place. I also had the opportunity to meet the mother of Stephen Bertrand Munyakho and we had a conversation. The challenge is that there is a proposal that is being mooted by the family of the person who died, that they be compensated to the tune of Kshs150 million. The family has raised about Kshs10 million, and they continue to try and raise more money. This is what they call blood money, some financial settlement for that.

It would be remiss of me not to notify the nation and Parliament that there is no budgetary provision for the Government to settle this kind of situation, whether in Saudi or any other country. However, the Ministry and the Government is doing what it can to see if this matter can be resolved differently, and if the family that lost their individual can perhaps climb down from the high level of Kshs150 million, so that this case can be resolved. It is work in progress, it is a conversation that is ongoing.

The second one, which you talked about, we are yet to obtain information. I will not be able to respond immediately to that specific one. We will need a little more time to get more details on that one.

Thank you, hon. Prime Cabinet Secretary. Yes, you can get more time to supply that answer because it is specific.

Sen. Kavindu-Muthama, proceed.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker for giving me this opportunity. Let me first start by congratulating the Prime Cabinet Secretary for making time to appear before the Senate from his very busy schedule. Mine is just a concern about our girls who go to Saudi Arabia to work. I have interacted with many of them who have managed to come back after much suffering. They say that their passports are taken away by the bosses who they go to work for and kept there.

The agreement that many of them have with the agents is that they are going to work in a particular home. However, once they arrive there, they are allocated to work in different homes, like three or four. Some tell me that they work even in six homes so; they hardly have time to rest.

There are also mistreatments like having no food. Once they escape and go to the rescue centres or police station, they find that they cannot be allowed to travel back home because they have no funds to travel back home, and no travelling document because the document is kept by their bosses. What is the Ministry doing about such issues to make sure that our people are safe and secure? Why can the agents who are not registered be arrested because majority of them are known?

Thank you.

The Prime Cabinet Secretary and Cabinet Secretary for Foreign and Diaspora Affairs (Hon. Musalia Mudavadi): Madam Temporary Speaker, the National Employment Authority (NEA) has eliminated 700 rogue agencies from the register so far, who are associated with not handling the labour issues professionally.

Another thing that I would like to say is that when Kenyans get challenges, the embassy has always been available to provide emergency travel documents to assist them, so that they can travel back to Kenya and move away from hostile environments. We will continue to doing so. The Saudi Arabia Centre is perhaps the most active in issuing emergency travel documents or certificates for Kenyans in case their passports and other documents are held.

The final point, which is the unfortunate side of this, is that sometimes there are a few bad cases that tend to cloud the actual picture. However, in reality, 90 per cent of the workers, particularly ladies, go back to the same venues after coming back to Kenya for a short break.

We are not downplaying the mistreatment, but we are trying to reign in, so that it comes to an end. These are the areas that we want to refine as we negotiate our bilateral agreements.

The Prime Cabinet Secretary and Cabinet Secretary for Foreign and Diaspora Affairs (Hon. Musalia Mudavadi): Madam Temporary Speaker, the National Employment Authority (NEA) has eliminated 700 rogue agencies from the register so far, who are associated with not handling the labour issues professionally.

Another thing that I would like to say is that when Kenyans get challenges, the embassy has always been available to provide emergency travel documents to assist them, so that they can travel back to Kenya and move away from hostile environments. We will continue to doing so. The Saudi Arabia Centre is perhaps the most active in issuing emergency travel documents or certificates for Kenyans in case their passports and other documents are held.

The final point, which is the unfortunate side of this, is that sometimes there are a few bad cases that tend to cloud the actual picture. However, in reality, 90 per cent of the workers, particularly ladies, go back to the same venues after coming back to Kenya for a short break.

We are not downplaying the mistreatment, but we are trying to reign in, so that it comes to an end. These are the areas that we want to refine as we negotiate our bilateral agreements.

There is one more question from Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale before we close this section of questions. Kindly, make it short and precise.

Madam Temporary Speaker, the governments of India, Philippines and Indonesia have labour and social protection bilateral agreements with the Gulf States. As a result, their workers are better paid than Kenyans doing similar work.

Could the Prime Cabinet Secretary undertake to table in this House, in the shortest time possible, such bilateral agreement, so as to protect our young people who are being paid Kshs30,000 as housemaids when those from other countries that I have talked about get three times as much?

Proceed, Prime Cabinet Secretary?

The Prime Cabinet Secretary and Cabinet Secretary for Foreign and Diaspora Affairs

: Madam Temporary Speaker, I would like to state two issues. Firstly, we will not hesitate whatsoever once the bilateral agreements have been signed. As I said, we want to pursue a policy of open government. We will be ready to share the details with Parliament. We shall not have a challenge on that score.

The second aspect, which is important and I take it as input from the hon. Senator, is that our negotiating skills, together with those of recruitment agencies and others, should be stepped up, so that we have fairly more reasonable and comparative agreements being negotiated. We should not negotiate ourselves short when we are doing so for Kenyans. I take that positively.

I thank you.

Question No.040

Madam Temporary Speaker, I beg to ask Question No.040 to the Prime Cabinet Secretary and Cabinet Secretary for Foreign and Diaspora Affairs.

Thank you, Prime Cabinet Secretary.

Sen. (Prof.) Ojienda, please, ask one supplementary question if you have because we do not have time. We are running out of time.

Thank you, Prime Cabinet Secretary.

Sen. (Prof.) Ojienda, please, ask one supplementary question if you have because we do not have time. We are running out of time.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker Sir. I thought there was Gen Zs sabotage, but it is a Wednesday.

I am satisfied with the responses by the Prime Cabinet Secretary and as a student of International Law and Diplomacy, I will reach out to the Cabinet Secretary to clarify some of the data that he has alluded to. I am satisfied and I have no follow-up questions.

Thank you.

Hon. Senators, we are running out of time and with your indulgence, I will have to cut this Session short because the other two Cabinet Secretaries are already here. They have arrived. So, I will only allow two supplementary questions; one from Sen. Gataya Mo Fire and the other from Sen. Issa Juma Boy. Please, be very brief and ask one question.

Sen. Gataya Mo Fire, please go straight to your question.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I want to revisit the concerns of my senior, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, on the issue of not having clear data of Kenyans abroad. I mean, it should not arise because our immigration department that clears people to travel at the airport should have the data.

Hon. Prime Cabinet Secretary, do you collaborate with the sister Ministry, State Department of Immigration, so that you can share that data?

Thank you, Senator. Sen. Isa Juma Boy, please proceed.

Asante Bw. Spika wa Muda. Swali langu ni, ningependa kurudia tena kuhusu wafanyikazi ambao wanafanya kazi Uarabuni, Saudia. Mimi nikiwa Seneta wa Jimbo la Kwale, kuna shida kubwa sana katika Kaunti yangu. Baada ya miezi miwili au mitatu, utapata maiti kati ya wafanyikazi ambao wanafanya kazi kule Saudia ikiletwa Kwale. Miezi miwili iliyopita kuna mwanamke mmoja kwa jina---

Sen. Boy, nilitoa agizo kwamba uende moja kwa moja kwa swali lako. Uliza swali; hadithi nyingi hatutaki.

Bw. Spika wa Muda, wakati mwingine mtoto mdogo anapotaka kuzungumza, huanza kidogo kidogo ndiposa aongee.

Kuna dada yetu kwa jina Zuhura Swale Mwabege ambaye alikuwa akifanya kazi Saudia. Aliuawa mwaka jana mwezi wa Disemba. Dada huyu kwao ni Magaoni, Sub-County ya Msambweni. Aliuwawa na mpaka sasa hivi, familia yake haijapata sababu ya kuuwawa kwake

Mimi ninakemea sana Embassy yetu ya kule. Sio kwa ubaya lakini tunataka Embassy yetu ya Saudia iamke ifanye kazi. Watu hawa ambao wanafanya kazi kule wanakufa wakiletwa hapa na hakuna sababu tunapewa mtu kuwa amekufa kwa nini ilhali Embassy yetu iko kule kuwakilisha watu wetu.

Faida ya kuwa na Embassy kule ni nini? Mpaka sisi viongozi tupige kelele, tupige simu na tuulize ndipo maiti ziletwe. Mimi ninakemea sana Embassy yetu. Na iwapo ninasema uongo, Maseneta wenzangu watasema ukweli. Ni kweli au sio kweli? Wanakufa na hutupati sababu ya kufa kwao.

Sasa hivi, ni mwezi wa nne tangu huyo mama afariki. Mpaka leo, familia yake haijajua sababu yake kuuliwa. Maiti ililetwa mwezi wa tatu na tukazika nyumbani.

Na sio huyo mmoja pekee, wengi sana wamekufa na sio katika Kwale Kaunti pekee, ni karibu Kenya nzima. Wanakufa huko Saudia na Embassy haipeani sababu ya kifo hicho. Wao ni kimya tu. Tunasema, Embassy iamke na ifanye kazi. Mtu akifa, walete maiti na watuambie amekufa kwa sababu gani.

Asante sana, Mheshimiwa Waziri.

Kuna dada yetu kwa jina Zuhura Swale Mwabege ambaye alikuwa akifanya kazi Saudia. Aliuawa mwaka jana mwezi wa Disemba. Dada huyu kwao ni Magaoni, Sub-County ya Msambweni. Aliuwawa na mpaka sasa hivi, familia yake haijapata sababu ya kuuwawa kwake

Mimi ninakemea sana Embassy yetu ya kule. Sio kwa ubaya lakini tunataka Embassy yetu ya Saudia iamke ifanye kazi. Watu hawa ambao wanafanya kazi kule wanakufa wakiletwa hapa na hakuna sababu tunapewa mtu kuwa amekufa kwa nini ilhali Embassy yetu iko kule kuwakilisha watu wetu.

Faida ya kuwa na Embassy kule ni nini? Mpaka sisi viongozi tupige kelele, tupige simu na tuulize ndipo maiti ziletwe. Mimi ninakemea sana Embassy yetu. Na iwapo ninasema uongo, Maseneta wenzangu watasema ukweli. Ni kweli au sio kweli? Wanakufa na hutupati sababu ya kufa kwao.

Sasa hivi, ni mwezi wa nne tangu huyo mama afariki. Mpaka leo, familia yake haijajua sababu yake kuuliwa. Maiti ililetwa mwezi wa tatu na tukazika nyumbani.

Na sio huyo mmoja pekee, wengi sana wamekufa na sio katika Kwale Kaunti pekee, ni karibu Kenya nzima. Wanakufa huko Saudia na Embassy haipeani sababu ya kifo hicho. Wao ni kimya tu. Tunasema, Embassy iamke na ifanye kazi. Mtu akifa, walete maiti na watuambie amekufa kwa sababu gani.

Asante sana, Mheshimiwa Waziri.

Asante, Senator. Cabinet Secretary,

usually from the public and they demand for these answers. So, we hope that we will have more interactions with you in the future.

Thank you and we wish you all the best in your duties, Sir. (The Prime Cabinet Secretary and Cabinet Secretary for Foreign and Diaspora Affairs (Hon. Musalia Mudavadi) was ushered out of the Chamber) (The Cabinet Secretary for Environment, Climate Change and Forestry (Hon. Soipan Tuya) was ushered into the Chamber) Hon. Senators, with us is the Cabinet Secretary for Environment, Climate Change and Forestry. Welcome, Cabinet Secretary. It is very nice to see you again here.

We will go straight to the questions because of time. Question Number 057, Sen. (Prof.) Tom Ojienda, proceed.

Question No.057

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I beg to ask the Cabinet Secretary for Environment, Climate Change and Forestry the following Question No.057

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I beg to ask the Cabinet Secretary for Environment, Climate Change and Forestry the following Question No.057

Hon. Cabinet Secretary, I am sorry for interrupting you. Could you please summarize the remaining answers because of time? We do not want to keep you here for too long as we already have the responses. Instead of going word for word, just summarize because there are many supplementary questions.

The Cabinet Secretary for Environment, Climate Change and Forestry

: I am well guided, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I am happy if the Senators have the copies of my statement because this programme is very important for purposes of collaboration between the Senate and the national Government through my Ministry, to ensure that we attain maximum impact of the intended objective of this programme, which is to fund climate action at the local level.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I have an annexure there which outlines how money has gone to each county. This is a very unique programme, which is based on results and one of the conditions for the counties was that, they had to put in 1.5 per cent of their development budget to match that from the development partners. Nairobi and Mombasa counties are excluded from this programme for reasons that these two counties are big time beneficiaries of other World Bank supported programmes.

As I conclude on this part of the FLLoCA funding, my request to Senators is to engage in the oversight role as they do their best to ensure the funds are utilized prudently for the benefit of vulnerable communities. The uniqueness of this programme is that it is designed to run from the ward level.

Question No.57 part (d) , the Question focuses on progress reports on the implementation of the of the climate change initiatives in each county. The Climate Change Act in Sections 15 and 19 outlines duties of public entities and county governments with regards to climate action and part of which is that counties are required to integrate and mainstream climate change actions in their CIDPs. They are supposed to enact legislations and report through county assemblies on the progress of implementation of climate actions. They are to designate a CECM to coordinate climate change affairs as well as establish a climate change unit that is well staffed and resourced.

As we speak, until 2022, only five counties of Wajir, Isiolo, Makueni and Kitui had complied with the requirements of the Act, but through the collaboration with the National Treasury and the CoG, we have now supported all the counties. I am happy to say that we have full compliance. This is true of the national level Ministries, Departments and Agencies (MDAs) where we have climate change units established across the board as per the requirement of the law.

Regarding progress reports on implementation of climate initiatives in each county, the counties are making significant progress in this regard notwithstanding the many challenges on policy and legislative measures.

We have 45 counties that have already developed specific laws like I had stated. We have 45 counties, which have set up County Climate Change Funds and have put in

Thank you very much, hon. Cabinet Secretary. Senator, you have a supplementary question?

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

The question that I asked was specifically intended to get the Ministry to highlight the contributions that come from the FLLoCA Fund. I note that Kisumu County got a total of Kshs273,335,666 and that is commendable. If we lose oversight of these funds, either through the County Public Accounts Committee (CPAC) or the County Public Investments and Special Funds Committee (CPIC) , then these funds will go into waste and we will never know where they end up.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, one supplementary question. Could the Cabinet Secretary tell us if counties have earned any funds from carbon financing? If there is any supplementary list she has, we could see it or she can give it at a later date, so that we know how to oversight our counties.

the designated national authority. This registry will be fed by sectors specific registries; from the energy, agriculture and other sectors.

I would like to assure this House and Kenyans that we engaged in a rigorous public participation process so as to ensure that this space which is shrouded in a lot of mystery will come to the fore with the full implementation of the law. I wish to invite Members of this House to pay keen attention to the legislation as it is because we already have a lot of interest expressed at different levels, including a government-to-government arrangement around carbon trading plans.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, however, there are many other small projects going on in the country. The Ministry is ready to net all these, put them under the national registry and then we can ensure clear benefit sharing and transparency on how these funds from the carbon markets are going to turn around the lives of Kenyans.

the designated national authority. This registry will be fed by sectors specific registries; from the energy, agriculture and other sectors.

I would like to assure this House and Kenyans that we engaged in a rigorous public participation process so as to ensure that this space which is shrouded in a lot of mystery will come to the fore with the full implementation of the law. I wish to invite Members of this House to pay keen attention to the legislation as it is because we already have a lot of interest expressed at different levels, including a government-to-government arrangement around carbon trading plans.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, however, there are many other small projects going on in the country. The Ministry is ready to net all these, put them under the national registry and then we can ensure clear benefit sharing and transparency on how these funds from the carbon markets are going to turn around the lives of Kenyans.

Thank you, Madam Cabinet Secretary. Sen. (Prof.) Tom Ojienda, I hope you are satisfied with that answer.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I am super satisfied.

Okay. We will take other supplementary questions. I will start with Sen. Esther Okenyuri. I hope your question is relevant to the main Question that was asked by the Senator for Kisumu and please, go straight to your question.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I am one of the people who does not need to be reminded on being relevant to the primary question. I want to find out from the Cabinet Secretary the progress of the Kshs15 billion tree-planting exercise and the status of the public forest cover in this country.

Thank you, Senator. Thank you for being brief. We will take another question from this side.

Proceed, Sen. Okong’o Omogeni.

no value for money because the project was not completed or launched for the benefit of the people who reside in the Raitigo area.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, in response to that audit query, the Governor responded that he wanted to use money from the Climate Change Resilience Investment Fund to complete the project. How will the Cabinet Secretary ensure that the money we are sending to counties is not used as an avenue for governors to steal money that is meant for good purpose, like the climate change?

I do not understand how money that has been set aside for a project through county funds and has been paid out to a contractor and then, someone uses donor funds to repeat the same project. Can she address us on how she is following up on governance, proper usage and utilization of money and also use the example I have given for Nyamira? If she wants the response from the Governor, I have it and I can table it on the Floor. That can assist her so that we ensure that this money does not go to the pockets of a few individuals.

Someone was saying that some governors usually set aside a certain percentage. For example, if you send Kshs55 million to Nyamira, some say that Kshs20 million should go to their pockets and the Kshs35 million can do something. We really want this money to be used for the benefit of the people of the counties where we reside.

no value for money because the project was not completed or launched for the benefit of the people who reside in the Raitigo area.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, in response to that audit query, the Governor responded that he wanted to use money from the Climate Change Resilience Investment Fund to complete the project. How will the Cabinet Secretary ensure that the money we are sending to counties is not used as an avenue for governors to steal money that is meant for good purpose, like the climate change?

I do not understand how money that has been set aside for a project through county funds and has been paid out to a contractor and then, someone uses donor funds to repeat the same project. Can she address us on how she is following up on governance, proper usage and utilization of money and also use the example I have given for Nyamira? If she wants the response from the Governor, I have it and I can table it on the Floor. That can assist her so that we ensure that this money does not go to the pockets of a few individuals.

Someone was saying that some governors usually set aside a certain percentage. For example, if you send Kshs55 million to Nyamira, some say that Kshs20 million should go to their pockets and the Kshs35 million can do something. We really want this money to be used for the benefit of the people of the counties where we reside.

Thank you, Senator. The Cabinet Secretary can respond to those two questions and then we take the other questions.

The Cabinet Secretary for Environment, Climate Change and Forestry

: Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I will start by responding to Sen. Okenyuri on the status of our Kshs15 billion programme as well as the forest cover of the country.

We have a constitutional mandate to ensure that at least a 10 percent tree cover and not forest cover for the country. I am happy to report that the baseline that we have as we implement the Kshs15 billion is 12.3 percent. This is from the latest assessment of our forest and tree cover done in 2021. I mentioned that the forestry sector is the highest emitter for the country and if we are to deal with the climate change crisis, including the flooding and cyclic droughts - and I would like us to be on the same page - this programme of re-afforestation is very critical. This is in terms of emissions reduction and dealing with the mitigation aspects of climate action.

The progress of the Ksh15 billion tree growing programme is good. We have a very high and encouraging reception from Kenyans across the board towards this initiative. As we stand, the national Government, through the Executive, has taken a frontline approach to do adoption of sites for restoration across the country. This is intended to give this the necessary push for each of us to join this initiative, from individual Kenyans to the private sector and the county governments. This will make sure that we enhance our tree cover from the current 12.23 per cent to 30 per cent in the year

Thank you, Cabinet Secretary. I direct Sen. Omogeni to table the query by the Auditor-General so that it can be furnished to the Ministry, and they will be able to look into it.

Supply initiated in the Financial Year 2015/2016. The second column will show you the money that was budgeted and paid, which is Kshs17,301,915. The fourth column has a response from the Governor where he says that he is going to use money from Climate Change Resilience Investment Programme grant funds to complete that project. Therefore, it will be double-budgeted at the county level. There is money set aside and paid to a contractor, and again he is saying in the Financial Year 2024/2025, he is going to take money from the donor funds to put it in the same project.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I table the document.

Supply initiated in the Financial Year 2015/2016. The second column will show you the money that was budgeted and paid, which is Kshs17,301,915. The fourth column has a response from the Governor where he says that he is going to use money from Climate Change Resilience Investment Programme grant funds to complete that project. Therefore, it will be double-budgeted at the county level. There is money set aside and paid to a contractor, and again he is saying in the Financial Year 2024/2025, he is going to take money from the donor funds to put it in the same project.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I table the document.

Thank you, Senator. We will take the next two supplementary questions from Sen. Mbugua and Sen. Munyi Mundingi.

Give him the microphone, please.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Under the Forest Conservation and Management Act, community forest associations are granted permission to participate in forest conservation, including harvesting and grazing. Recently, the Ministry made a pronouncement that they are banning grazing of animals in the forest. It was not clear whether it is all forests. Could the Cabinet Secretary tell the country and this House the correct position so that we can know what is happening in our counties?

Thank you, Senator. Sen. Munyi Mundingi, proceed.

Asante, Bw. Spika wa Muda. Namshukuru Bi. Waziri kwa ile kazi anayofanya ya kubadilisha nchi yetu ya Kenya. Vijana wengi wa Kaunti ya Embu wanapanda miti. Je, watafaidika namna gani na mambo ya carbon credit? Walipanda miti wakati ule mwingine na wakati mlikuwa mnanunua miti, miti yao haikununuliwa. Tuko na ward 20 kule mashinani na subcounty nne na kilio chao ni miti yao haikununuliwa. Vijana wetu watafaidika vipi ili waweze kujisaidia kimaisha wakiendelea kutafuta kazi zingine zinazofaa? Tunajua pia hii inafaa.

Pili, nashukuru kwa sababu Kaunti ya Embu ilipatiwa Ksh90 milioni. Nilisikia malalamishi mengi yakitolewa na Gavana kuwa pesa zinaonekana kama nyingi lakini shida ni kwamba pesa nyingi zimetengwa katika kufunza watu mambo mengi. Bi. Waziri, tunaonelea heri mambo ya mafunzo yatengewe pesa kidogo na hizo nyingine ziende kwa kupanda miti.

Asante, Bw. Spika wa Muda.

Sen. Mbugua asked a question about the Forest Conservation and Management Act. Within the law, we have participatory forest management processes. Without the support and partnership of communities, we cannot succeed with our tree planting or forest management. The intended purpose for participatory forest management procedures is to have the forest adjacent communities at the core of forest management.

On the issue of grazing, under the Forest Conservation and Management Act, we have formation of Community Forest Associations (CFAs), which are legal entities. Under the CFAs, there are laid out frameworks for collaboration between forest associations and the Kenya Forest Service (KFS) officers to actualise participatory forest management action plans, in the sense that we have certain user rights within the forest. Grazing is one of them. However, they are practiced within certain parameters and regulations. For example, we cannot have freelance grazing in our forests because what then happens to the restoration efforts that we are engaging in? If we plant trees, then cows and goats eat the seedlings, we will be doing a zero-sum game.

The effect of participatory forest management plans is to make sure we have zoning of our protected areas. We have designated spaces where grazing can happen and areas where it cannot. That requires regulation, co-operation and close collaboration between the communities and the KFS through forest management agreements.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, on the statement that the Senator mentioned that we made as a Ministry, I am coming back to tell the country that we have user rights within our forests, but they are merged with responsibilities of conservation. My statement was very clear. I did a written statement, which was circulated across the country. Basically what I am saying is that we have a law and a way of engaging the KFS and the communities. All we need is to enforce that in a collaborative fashion.

I am not afraid to say that the problem is that there has not been any enforcement. It has been free for all. When we call for enforcement, there is a bit of discomfort. Rest assured, hon. Senators and the entire House, that we are not phasing out user rights. We are just saying that they have to be measured against the responsibilities for conservation and the law is clear about that. I promise that we are going to carry out public participation across the country, so that we do not have misconstruction of what the Ministry is doing around this. Communities are our key partners.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, coming to the question by the Senator of Embu on the issue of carbon credits, I have spelt it out. I would like the Senator to look at the law as it is right now. The community benefits sharing framework within our new carbon markets law is very clear in terms of what the communities should get against various classification of projects. Some of them are land-based, non-land based, community land and private land.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I take cognizance of the issue raised by the Senator to the effect that young people are planting trees. Some of them have developed nurseries across the country because of our 15 billion tree strategy. We had a good plan to set up a Green Army across the country, which was going to focus on these young people. We intended to source seedlings for the tree planting initiative and use them in protection and maintenance of the same. However, because of the fiscal situation we are in, we are yet to implement that.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, with the current tree planting activities happening at the Executive level, where Cabinet Secretaries are allocated various ecosystems across the country, we are very clear that we do not only mobilize around the local communities in whatever site a Cabinet Secretary is allocated, in terms of sourcing of seedlings from our young people and women, but also engage them in the contractual activities that come with it.

Finally, the Senator of Embu County has also raised a very pertinent issue with regard to our development partner funding. The sad truth is that we have billions of monies that come from our development partners, but most of it goes to intangibles; training after training and seminars. However, as I said, to attract the attention of the Senators to the Financing Locally-Led Climate Action (FLLoCA) funding, we are very keen and I have been making trips across the country, meeting governors, just encouraging them that we come up with visible and tangible models of what the FLLoCA programme is doing. Only then shall we succeed. If we are saying we are doing a water project, then we see an end-to-end plan on how FLLoCA started this and finished. That is the only thing that will convince our development partners to scale up this programme.

We are also encouraging our governors, because of our need to restore our ecosystems, not to spread too thin. For this initial rollout of FLoCCA, just focus on one or two ecosystems. If it is a water project, yes, pick a wetland, fence it and plant trees around that wetland, and let us see water flowing out of the FLLoCA money because it is a lot of money, if well utilized.

So, once again, as an implementing Ministry, we are keen on making sure that these development funds go towards tangible, visible projects. The monitoring aspect of FLLoCA is one that I have fairly invested in, and with the support of this House, we can make sure that we will have replicable models that will help us in our environmental conservation.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, with the current tree planting activities happening at the Executive level, where Cabinet Secretaries are allocated various ecosystems across the country, we are very clear that we do not only mobilize around the local communities in whatever site a Cabinet Secretary is allocated, in terms of sourcing of seedlings from our young people and women, but also engage them in the contractual activities that come with it.

Finally, the Senator of Embu County has also raised a very pertinent issue with regard to our development partner funding. The sad truth is that we have billions of monies that come from our development partners, but most of it goes to intangibles; training after training and seminars. However, as I said, to attract the attention of the Senators to the Financing Locally-Led Climate Action (FLLoCA) funding, we are very keen and I have been making trips across the country, meeting governors, just encouraging them that we come up with visible and tangible models of what the FLLoCA programme is doing. Only then shall we succeed. If we are saying we are doing a water project, then we see an end-to-end plan on how FLLoCA started this and finished. That is the only thing that will convince our development partners to scale up this programme.

We are also encouraging our governors, because of our need to restore our ecosystems, not to spread too thin. For this initial rollout of FLoCCA, just focus on one or two ecosystems. If it is a water project, yes, pick a wetland, fence it and plant trees around that wetland, and let us see water flowing out of the FLLoCA money because it is a lot of money, if well utilized.

So, once again, as an implementing Ministry, we are keen on making sure that these development funds go towards tangible, visible projects. The monitoring aspect of FLLoCA is one that I have fairly invested in, and with the support of this House, we can make sure that we will have replicable models that will help us in our environmental conservation.

Thank you very much, Cabinet Secretary.

We shall proceed to the next Question. I see that Sen. (Dr.) James Murango is not here, so I will direct that, that Question is dropped.

Question No.072

So, Hon. Cabinet Secretary, my apologies for that, but I thank you for your thorough answers to the questions that were asked today. I would want to also encourage you not to lose heart on this one case where the Senator was not here to ask the question. We need this kind of interactions because the issues that are raised here by the Senators are brought to us by the public and they find this opportunity for them to get the answers they have asked.

So, thank you very much for attending. I wish you all the best in your duties and the work that you have at the Ministry. Thank you very much and we will give you leave.

(The Cabinet Secretary for Environment, Climate Change and Forestry (Hon. Soipan Tuya) was ushered out of the Chamber) (The Cabinet Secretary for Roads and Transport (Hon. Kipchumba Murkomen) was ushered out of the Chamber)

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I ask Question No.045 by the Senator for Siaya County, Sen. (Dr.) Oburu Oginga, MGH, MP. The Question is-

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I ask Question No.045 by the Senator for Siaya County, Sen. (Dr.) Oburu Oginga, MGH, MP. The Question is-

The Cabinet Secretary for Roads and Transport (Hon. Kipchumba Murkomen): Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for the opportunity to come and respond to the questions. Again, let me repeat that it is my greatest pleasure to come back to this august House.

Since all the questions relate to pending roads, allow me, by way of introduction, just to say something in two minutes. One is that the situation has not changed in so far as development of our roads in the country is concerned from the time I was here.

Let me repeat that it is important for the nation to understand that when we came into office in October, 2022, and from when this Government was elected in August, 2022, I inherited a road portfolio on these roads that have been mentioned for development, of about Kshs150 billion pending bills. This amount was in regards to roads that have been pending for even up to 10 years. The last time I was here, I gave examples of some of the roads that have been pending for many years. They include the Tharaka Nithi-Chiakariga and Marimanti Road that we went to launch in 2014.

The people of Kenya will appreciate that the Kshs150 billion required a one-off payment. So, from the time we came to office, we should then have commenced an accumulation of that amount moving forward. Unfortunately, in the first year, we were given a budget of about Kshs53 billion. Of that Kshs53 billion, about Kshs34 billion was disbursed and we paid the contractors in the year 2022/2023. When we paid some of these contractors because it is distributed--- As you know, Parliament budgets for road by road. We distributed a little amount of money across the roads and some of the contractors were able to go on site.

In this Financial Year 2023/2024 that has just ended, the budget provision was initially at Kshs73 billion. Then supplementary budgets came in, cutting the amount up to Kshs51 billion. By the end of that Financial Year, on the 30th June, 2024, which is a few weeks ago, the Ministry had only received Kshs25 billion, half of the disbursements of the budget allocation. What does that mean? For the two years that I have been in office, in terms of budget allocation and disbursement, the actual money that came to the Ministry to chase the road portfolio of Kshs150 billion then was about Kshs50 billion. Of course, the contractor incurred another pending bill when the Kshs50 billion was paid. That moved it again to Kshs165 billion.

As we sit here, we have a pending bill of Kshs165 billion for all the road contracts across the country. That explains why most of the answers that I will read, as supplied to this House, are majorly that we will complete when funding is provided. We have gone to a new Financial Year with another budget of another Kshs50 billion to chase another Kshs165 billion. Therefore, we are not sure there will be a disbursement that is commensurate with the resources we want by the end of this FY.

Unless there is a drastic decision from the National Treasury and Parliament through the budget for a one-time-off payment of Kshs165 billion to the contractors, we will be lying to the nation. I will continue being that Cabinet Secretary accused of lying to say that we will complete these roads in time in the absence of a drastic change in the budgeting process. The situation has been made worse by the misfortune of the failure of the Finance Bill. That means we will stagnate because it becomes a challenge for the Government to look for other resources to plug in the Kshs349 billion.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I will read the answers a bit faster because most of the answers to the questions relate to the nonexistence of budgetary allocation for the roads to be done. This is important for the state of the nation, the Ministry and our roads.

The reason this Government has been accused of miscommunication is that for the last two years, we have behaved like an African father who does not tell his children the exact state of his pocket. This is in the hope that in the fullness of time, you will get something and satisfy your children. Unfortunately, the impatience of your children can easily eat you because you have been trying to hide the truth of what it is.

I have decided that we lay it bare, so that the people of Kenya know the state of their infrastructure, their accounts and budgets. This is so that they will know whether they will be ready to make sacrifices in other sectors to complete the roads. The last statement on this issue is that this is a systemic historic problem.

Some of you sitting here were in the National Assembly during the Jubilee administration, which I am glad to have been part of it. You kept on increasing the number of roads and approving the budget for roads without a clear plan of how these roads will be completed before starting a new one. That is why when this administration came to office, we made it clear to the country that we were not going to start new projects until we complete the projects that were in place. This disease would have been carried forward continuously year after year, and we would be living a lie. That is why we must confront the reality on the ground.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I will now go straight to respond to Question No.45. The delay in the completion of Wang Arot-Kamito Road and Maseno-Kombewa- Kalandini Road (D245) and Maseno Town Roads (RWC119) projects were caused by the contractor’s withdrawal from the site due to the severe financial distress from the accumulation of the pending bills.

The current pending bill for this project is Kshs203,476,681.90 and the allocated budget for the last financial year, which has just ended, has been exhausted with a payment of only Kshs56,370,000. The budget for the project for this coming financial year is Kshs70 million. You can see that the budget for this financial year is Kshs70 million still chasing the balance of the Kshs203 million, which is the pending bill. Meanwhile, the Ministry is engaging the contractor to prioritise maintenance work to ensure motorability at affected sections ahead of the full resumption of the works.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the delay in the completion of Bondo-Wiawi- Kibanga-Liunda Beach Road, which is C-843 road project, is due to the contractor's withdrawal from the site citing delays in payment of interim payment certificates for the certified works. The Ministry, through the Kenya Rural Roads Authority (KeRRA) has engaged the contractor to resume works following partial payment on the previously owed amounts.

The contractor has committed to mobilize and resume operations to ensure the project's completion as modalities are put in place to clear the outstanding amount of Kshs33,777,596.69. In the last financial year, the contractor was paid Kshs61,171,999 out of the allocated Kshs70,800,000. The Ministry aims to clear the balance in the next tranche of disbursement from the National Treasury.

The upgrading to bitumen standards and performance-based maintenance of the Gotnanga-Jera-Ba-Ober-D-1853 road project is currently at 20 per cent progress, with

The upgrading to bitumen standards and performance-based maintenance of the Gotnanga-Jera-Ba-Ober-D-1853 road project is currently at 20 per cent progress, with

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I rise to ask Question No.050.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I rise to ask Question No.050.

This has become also a problem for us at the road safety site. The questions Kenya is asking, and then again using this answer, it is across the country. All the roads which are pending are partially done. The sequencing of how to construct these roads requires that you finish first before you start road furniture and markings. The people of Kenya are suffering because there are no bumps and markings in the areas that they are asking. This has been occasioned by the contractor not being on site, therefore, the work has not been finished. It is double jeopardy when it comes to the question of you not having the road completed and not having the safety on the road because of the markings.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the Metamaywa-Mosobeti-Kebirigo Road B5 was constructed through the stage construction approach and the Nyageita Bridge was not part of the project's scope due to funding limitations at the time.

The Ministry acknowledges that the bridge requires extension to accommodate increased traffic volumes, following the completion of the road projects. As an interim measure to improve safety, guardrails were installed on the bridge along with the construction of rumble strips and speed bumps at the approaches to calm traffic accessing the bridge.

Number three, regarding the Kijauri-Nyansiongo-Raitigo- Metemaywa Road, the contractor is under instructions to carry out the necessary works as detailed in the substantial completion inspection report. This will be subjected to final completion inspection before the contractor is discharged from the project. However, the contractor has not attended to the outstanding works to date and has since withdrawn from the site due to the aforementioned financial distress.

Thank you, Hon. Cabinet Secretary for that response.

Sen. Omogeni, I believe you have got a supplementary question to that. I, therefore, grant you the opportunity to proceed.

Thank you, Hon. Cabinet Secretary for that response.

Sen. Omogeni, I believe you have got a supplementary question to that. I, therefore, grant you the opportunity to proceed.

projects that are already ongoing before we deal with the new ones, noting that there is no one single bus stop along that road or bumps anywhere in the whole of that stretch?

Secondly, on the issue of the Nyageita Bridge, you note that is a high-volume road. The bridge I am mentioning is really a makeshift. It is the road that we use to transport our tea, which is a key economic activity in the County of Nyamira. Can I get an assurance from the Cabinet Secretary that can be done within this Financial Year? That has been pending for more than 10 years. The road was launched and commissioned, but that bridge is a big hindrance to the transportation of tea.

I thank you.

Thank you, Senior Counsel. Proceed, Hon. Cabinet Secretary. The Cabinet Secretary for Roads and Transport

: Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. At least I did an earlier introduction about the general status of the funding across the country. The thing I would suggest is that maybe we can plan for safety activities just within the available budget. We will see if we can take care of bumps and the markings, even if it is just signage to say ‘approach slowly.’

However, the people of Kenya have told us that, yes, we want the roads and, yes, you can get the money, but not at transferring up the cost of the pump by Kshs7. The cost of living is up because fuel creates a problem across the sector. We will sit because we completed the public participation last Monday and then we will go and sit together with the State Department for Petroleum to see if there is a way some other levies can be foregone or do something else. This is so that we concentrate first on raising money for the roads.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, as we do so, we will also see how to support the Senator’s bridge. If we succeed in this endeavor, which I hope we can do in two months or so, we will have a little bit of additional resources and we can save such bridges because of the danger and problems they are causing the country.

I would like to thank Senior Counsel and friend, Sen. Omogeni, because he has been harassing me on the same issue in my office. It means that this is something that means a lot to him and his constituents.

I thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

Thank you, Cabinet Secretary. We will take one supplementary question.

Sen. John Kinyua, is it in regard to this Question? You can go ahead.

Asante, Bw. Spika wa Muda, kwa kunipa fursa hii. Nashukuru Bw. Waziri kwa kuja na kuweka maneno paruwanja kulingana na vile Wizara yake iko, kulingana na mambo ya barabara. Swali langu ni kwamba nimesikia Bw. Waziri akisema ya kwamba alikisia atapata Kshs165 bilioni, lakini akapata Kshs50 bilioni.

Kuna zile barabara ambazo zinatengenezwa. Bw. Waziri anachagua vipi barababa itakayotengenezwa na ni ile ambayo haitatengenezwa? Ni maswala gani anaangalia? Ile ilianziwa kitambo ama ile ambayo ina shughuli fulani au ni nini anachoaangazia? Hii ni kwa sababu, nimesikia akisema ya kwamba, Seneta wa Nyamira amekuwa akienda kwake ofisini. Mimi pia, nimeenda kwake ofisini na pia najua Maseneta wengi wamekuwa wakienda ofisini kwake.

Pesa ambazo Bw. Waziri ako nazo anasema hazitoshi. Sijui ni mbinu gani anatumia akisema atatengeneza barabara moja katika sehemu ya Laikipia na ile ingine atatengeneza sehemu ya Nyeri. Ni yule ambaye ataenda kwa ofisi ya Bw. Waziri mara nyingi au ni yule atapiga simu mara nyingi ama ni yule Seneta aliye rafiki ya Bw. Waziri?

Sijui niseme namna gani lakini ningetaka Bw. Waziri atuelezee na ninashukuru kwa sababu ameweka mambo paruwanja, vile Wakenya wangetaka ili wajue ya kwamba unatumia zile pesa unazo vipi.

Wakati bajeti inapitishwa kama ile schedule iliyopitishwa majuzi inayoonyesha pesa zinavyotumika, tayari imetenga pesa za kila barabara. Ukiangalia zile barabara nilizozisoma hapo awali, nilionyesha wazi kila barabara na kiasi chake kwa bajeti. Wakati hiyo schedule itatoka National Treasury mda wowote kutoka sasa, kila mkenya ataweza kuangalia ni pesa ngapi imetengwa kwa barabara ya kaunti fulani.

Swali la kwanza la Sen. Kinyua lina maana sana lakini pia ni la kisiasa. It is a political decision. It is a policy-political decision. Pole kwa kuchanganya lugha. Hii ni kwa sababu, saa hii nikisema ya kwamba, kwa sababu tumepewa fedha asilimia 58 ya zile fedha tunazohitaji kumaliza barabara, niamue kumalizia barabara za Elgeyo- Marakwet mwaka huu, ndio mwaka ujao tuende kwa Kaunti ya Nyeri halafu tufuatie na Kaunti ya Garissa, hapo kutakuwa na mvutano mkubwa sana katika Taifa. Ndiposa unaona katika Bajeti, kila mtu anapewa kidogo kidogo kwa sababu ile milestone ifaywe kwa kila stage ya barabara.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, allow me to repeat this in English. Many Kenyans are saying, why you not take the little money? Last financial year, we got 25 billion out of a budget of Kshs51 billion, out of a need of a pending bill of Kshs165 billion. The people of Kenya are asking me to take the Kshs25 billion, finish the Road from Waiyaki to Rironi, complete the interchanges and pay the contractor. That decision is not tenable politically for so many leaders. When Parliament is doing the budget, they want to make sure that the contractors in every part of the country are taking steps.

The second and most difficult problem is that, if you do not make an attempt to continue paying their contractors, you are worsening the interests. Some contractors will leave the site completely. They will take legal action against the Ministry and the agency. Therefore, to make them go back to the site will become difficult. Therefore, for the two years, I have become a negotiator of some sort. Thanks to my political and legal training. I have had to call a contractor and plead with them to go to site because we are paying them 20 per cent of their required amount. We will try our best to make a case. We are still doing so and we believe that perhaps before the end of this year, we will have made a step to solve this problem.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I know it is not within my purview, but I request your indulgence to allow me to answer all the Questions asked in the book, and then all supplementary questions can come once. This is because all the questions are almost the same; on roads. It may be useful to combine those that are similar.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

Wakati bajeti inapitishwa kama ile schedule iliyopitishwa majuzi inayoonyesha pesa zinavyotumika, tayari imetenga pesa za kila barabara. Ukiangalia zile barabara nilizozisoma hapo awali, nilionyesha wazi kila barabara na kiasi chake kwa bajeti. Wakati hiyo schedule itatoka National Treasury mda wowote kutoka sasa, kila mkenya ataweza kuangalia ni pesa ngapi imetengwa kwa barabara ya kaunti fulani.

Swali la kwanza la Sen. Kinyua lina maana sana lakini pia ni la kisiasa. It is a political decision. It is a policy-political decision. Pole kwa kuchanganya lugha. Hii ni kwa sababu, saa hii nikisema ya kwamba, kwa sababu tumepewa fedha asilimia 58 ya zile fedha tunazohitaji kumaliza barabara, niamue kumalizia barabara za Elgeyo- Marakwet mwaka huu, ndio mwaka ujao tuende kwa Kaunti ya Nyeri halafu tufuatie na Kaunti ya Garissa, hapo kutakuwa na mvutano mkubwa sana katika Taifa. Ndiposa unaona katika Bajeti, kila mtu anapewa kidogo kidogo kwa sababu ile milestone ifaywe kwa kila stage ya barabara.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, allow me to repeat this in English. Many Kenyans are saying, why you not take the little money? Last financial year, we got 25 billion out of a budget of Kshs51 billion, out of a need of a pending bill of Kshs165 billion. The people of Kenya are asking me to take the Kshs25 billion, finish the Road from Waiyaki to Rironi, complete the interchanges and pay the contractor. That decision is not tenable politically for so many leaders. When Parliament is doing the budget, they want to make sure that the contractors in every part of the country are taking steps.

The second and most difficult problem is that, if you do not make an attempt to continue paying their contractors, you are worsening the interests. Some contractors will leave the site completely. They will take legal action against the Ministry and the agency. Therefore, to make them go back to the site will become difficult. Therefore, for the two years, I have become a negotiator of some sort. Thanks to my political and legal training. I have had to call a contractor and plead with them to go to site because we are paying them 20 per cent of their required amount. We will try our best to make a case. We are still doing so and we believe that perhaps before the end of this year, we will have made a step to solve this problem.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I know it is not within my purview, but I request your indulgence to allow me to answer all the Questions asked in the book, and then all supplementary questions can come once. This is because all the questions are almost the same; on roads. It may be useful to combine those that are similar.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

Very well, Cabinet Secretary. However, before we proceed to the next Question, Sen. Ogola, accept my apologies. We did not give you an opportunity to ask a supplementary question on Question No.045. Do you have a Supplementary Question?

on our roads after the massive floods that just ended? That is a general question and not specific to Siaya County. It points to the inadequate finances you were talking about, and yet all over the country we have broken roads after the floods.

Thank you.

on our roads after the massive floods that just ended? That is a general question and not specific to Siaya County. It points to the inadequate finances you were talking about, and yet all over the country we have broken roads after the floods.

Thank you.

Cabinet Secretary, you may proceed.

The Cabinet Secretary for Roads and Transport

: Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I will be brief so that I save time.

This question is important, but it also touches on the other question on Road Maintenance Levy Fund (RMLF) . Restoration of roads affected by floods is actually maintenance. I had already explained that we are unable to do so because the RMLF is running low or short of resources. In my earlier response to Sen. Omogeni, I stated that if we make a case and succeed to get some enhanced resources, we will deal with mitigation of floods that affect our roads.

The assessment we did after the floods, including the El Niño and the ones that occurred early this year, is that we need Kshs37 billion to restore the roads back to how they were. This is a big challenge for the Ministry. However, that will be mitigated a little bit if we get something from an enhanced RMLF.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, Question No.058 addressed to the Cabinet Secretary for Roads and Transport is on Kenya Airways (KQ) .

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, Question No.058 addressed to the Cabinet Secretary for Roads and Transport is on Kenya Airways (KQ) .

Hon. Cabinet Secretary, because of time, I will use the Standing Orders to extend this sitting for a further 15 minutes, so that we conclude Question No.058.

The Cabinet Secretary for Roads and Transport

: Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, unfortunately, I may not meet the expectations of the Senior Counsel and hon. Senator because the Government of Kenya holds a significant stake in KQ. That is approximately 48.9 per cent of the shares.

The Government of Kenya is represented on the Board of KQ through the National Treasury and the Ministry of Roads and Transport. However, operational matters, including those related to protection and welfare of staff, are primarily the responsibility of the KQ itself. These operational issues are typically addressed and managed by the management and leadership of KQ.

The KQ is not really a parastatal per se where we have proper access to all the information. I do not want to commit myself to answers that they will write to me. The Ministry suggests that we invite KQ as an organisation to take responsibility. That can be done preferably by a committee, so that these issues are dealt with comprehensively.

I thank you.

Thank you, Cabinet Secretary. Sen. (Prof.) Tom Ojienda Odhiambo, SC, proceed.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, as the Cabinet Secretary has indicated, obviously his response is unsatisfactory. In view of his response on the need to interrogate the leadership of KQ, the question of shareholding arises.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I note that the Government has 48 per cent shareholding, but there is the other question of the public interest that also arises under this obligation. I will reach out to the Cabinet Secretary and share with him some precedents on this question, and I will make sure he comes back to answer the question because he cannot run away from the problem of Kenya Airways.

Thank you, Senator. Hon. Senator, since we have extended the sitting for 15 minutes, Sen. Faki, we are not taking any supplementary questions at the moment. We will take supplementary questions at the end and that is what we have agreed.

We are going to the next question.

Sorry? What is your point of order, Sen. Osotsi?

Sen. Osotsi, the Cabinet Secretary has not spent a lot of time on the written response; he has actually been very brief. Anyway, because of time, let us go to the next Question, which is actually raised by you.

Could you proceed to ask Question No.59, so that we can proceed? Question No.059

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, and thank you, Cabinet Secretary, for appearing to answer my Question. I rise to ask Question No.59, and it reads-

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, and thank you, Cabinet Secretary, for appearing to answer my Question. I rise to ask Question No.59, and it reads-

Due to the limited budget ceiling available to the State Department of Roads, KeRRA is unable to allocate funds to all critical areas. Allocated funds should be enough to address the particular challenge and realize value for money as a thin spread of funds would result in ineffective allocation with little to show from the spread.

The procurement of road works in KeRRA adheres to the Public Procurement and Asset Disposals Act (PPDA), 2015 as amended in 2022, including the Public Procurement and Asset Disposal (PPDA) Regulations of 2020. Key controls in line with the Public Procurement and Disposal Act, 2015 include open tendering for the road works, restricted tendering through a pre-qualified list, publishing all tenders on the authority's website and the Public Procurement Information Portal (PPIP), strict adherence to awarding at least 30 per cent of the contracts to special groups, in line with Access to Government Procurement Opportunities (AGPO).

Three, to prevent duplicity in road works, the Ministry undertakes several measures, which include-

Due to the limited budget ceiling available to the State Department of Roads, KeRRA is unable to allocate funds to all critical areas. Allocated funds should be enough to address the particular challenge and realize value for money as a thin spread of funds would result in ineffective allocation with little to show from the spread.

The procurement of road works in KeRRA adheres to the Public Procurement and Asset Disposals Act (PPDA), 2015 as amended in 2022, including the Public Procurement and Asset Disposal (PPDA) Regulations of 2020. Key controls in line with the Public Procurement and Disposal Act, 2015 include open tendering for the road works, restricted tendering through a pre-qualified list, publishing all tenders on the authority's website and the Public Procurement Information Portal (PPIP), strict adherence to awarding at least 30 per cent of the contracts to special groups, in line with Access to Government Procurement Opportunities (AGPO).

Three, to prevent duplicity in road works, the Ministry undertakes several measures, which include-

Sen. Osotsi, your supplementary question?

Number two, the answers to question two and three is the best case scenario. However, we know that the 22 per and the 10 per cent of the Kenya Rural Roads Authority (KeRRA) funds, which are under the management of Members of Parliament (MPs) are misappropriated. That is a fact and it is something that we discussed the whole of last week and this week. So, as much as the answer there looks very good, vitu kwa ground are different.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, number three is the issue of duplicity in road maintenance and construction. This is a serious problem that the county, the MP and in some places, even the Member of County Assembly (MCA) and KeRRA also put money on the same road. You, therefore, end up having a situation where public money is misused. According to me, the answer given by the Cabinet Secretary is not adequate. He needs to go on the ground to get the real facts about this problem, which we all know, as Senators, that it is happening in our counties.

The answers given by the Cabinet Secretary are very inadequate. I expected that, having been a Senator in this House, he would respond very well to questions two and three because these are challenges we go through.

The Temporary Speaker (Sen. Abdul Haji): Thank you, Senator. Cabinet Secretary, proceed. The Cabinet Secretary for Roads and Transport (Hon. Kipchumba Murkomen): Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, first of all, the truth is that every constituency gets the same amount of money from the Kenya Rural Roads Authority (KeRRA). They are the same. For the last Financial Year, it was Kshs62 million for every constituency in the Republic. The Kenya Roads Act 2007, Section Six, makes it mandatory to be shared equally across the country. So, Vihiga gets its fair share of its constituency.

How it is advertised is different for every constituency at different times, depending on the constituency roads committees, meetings and so forth. Under the answer I gave, you would have picked a period where there was an advert going out for that county among others across the country in relation to that figure. Cumulatively, when you finish the financial year depending on how the planning was done for every constituency, it will eventually lead to Kshs 62 million.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the last time I was in this House before I left, which I hope is still the case was that it is not right to impute an improper motive to the other Chamber, for the committee and good working relationship with the two Chambers of Parliament, it is important not to generalize a debate about the National Assembly and the Senate. As I throw my eyes around the House, I see three former Members of the National Assembly who managed constituencies and worked with the constituency roads committee.

Hon. Lomenen, Hon. Tobiko, Hon. Kisang and Hon. Abass all have a good history of how the KeRRA works with constituencies. As we progress, more people are coming from the National Assembly to work here, as some people leave here to find themselves in the National Assembly. I know a number of those we worked together with. Then others will become governors. I suspect that this Hon. Member is one of the suspects.

Number two, the answers to question two and three is the best case scenario. However, we know that the 22 per and the 10 per cent of the Kenya Rural Roads Authority (KeRRA) funds, which are under the management of Members of Parliament (MPs) are misappropriated. That is a fact and it is something that we discussed the whole of last week and this week. So, as much as the answer there looks very good, vitu kwa ground are different.Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, number three is the issue of duplicity in road maintenance and construction. This is a serious problem that the county, the MP and in some places, even the Member of County Assembly (MCA) and KeRRA also put money on the same road. You, therefore, end up having a situation where public money is misused. According to me, the answer given by the Cabinet Secretary is not adequate. He needs to go on the ground to get the real facts about this problem, which we all know, as Senators, that it is happening in our counties.The answers given by the Cabinet Secretary are very inadequate. I expected that, having been a Senator in this House, he would respond very well to questions two and three because these are challenges we go through.The Temporary Speaker (

Thank you, Senator. Cabinet Secretary, proceed. The Cabinet Secretary for Roads and Transport (Hon. Kipchumba Murkomen): Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, first of all, the truth is that every constituency gets the same amount of money from the Kenya Rural Roads Authority (KeRRA). They are the same. For the last Financial Year, it was Kshs62 million for every constituency in the Republic. The Kenya Roads Act 2007, Section Six, makes it mandatory to be shared equally across the country. So, Vihiga gets its fair share of its constituency.How it is advertised is different for every constituency at different times, depending on the constituency roads committees, meetings and so forth. Under the answer I gave, you would have picked a period where there was an advert going out for that county among others across the country in relation to that figure. Cumulatively, when you finish the financial year depending on how the planning was done for every constituency, it will eventually lead to Kshs 62 million.Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the last time I was in this House before I left, which I hope is still the case was that it is not right to impute an improper motive to the other Chamber, for the committee and good working relationship with the two Chambers of Parliament, it is important not to generalize a debate about the National Assembly and the Senate. As I throw my eyes around the House, I see three former Members of the National Assembly who managed constituencies and worked with the constituency roads committee.Hon. Lomenen, Hon. Tobiko, Hon. Kisang and Hon. Abass all have a good history of how the KeRRA works with constituencies. As we progress, more people are coming from the National Assembly to work here, as some people leave here to find themselves in the National Assembly. I know a number of those we worked together with. Then others will become governors. I suspect that this Hon. Member is one of the suspects.

Question No.61 to the Cabinet Secretary, Roads and Transport is in five parts.

Question No.061

Question No.61 to the Cabinet Secretary, Roads and Transport is in five parts.

Cabinet Secretary? The Cabinet Secretary for Roads and Transport

: Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I confirm that the Ministry, through its road agencies is actively undertaking real-time monitoring and mapping of infrastructure affected by the unusually heavy rains during the period of April, May 2024, as well as the El Nino rains of October to December, 2023. This initiative aims to facilitate timely repair and reconstruction efforts. The detailed report on the observed damage to our transport infrastructure is presented herewith. The required mitigation measures vary depending on the structure and type of road pavement.

Road structures such as bridges and culverts are designed to handle abnormal flows of a specific return period without incurring damage. To carry out the necessary reinstatement works, comprehensive hydrological and hydraulic studies are conducted to inform the redesign of the structures.

Subsequently, the required works include the reinstatement of structures, enhancement of drainage systems, protection of works, rebuilding of embankments and redesign of road pavement and alignments. The proposed budget to facilitate these activities is annexed herewith.

According to the Fourth Schedule of the Constitution, the national Government is responsible for the construction and operation of national trunk roads and set standards for the construction and maintenance of roads by both national and county governments. The county government is responsible for the construction and operation of county roads.

From this, it is evident that the national Government ensures that national trunk roads meet the required standards for safety, durability and resilience against natural disasters such as floods. In setting standards for counties, the national Government provides technical expertise, guidance on materials, construction methods, and maintenance practices to be followed by county governments. The county government, on the other hand, ensures accessibility and maintains roads to be passable and safe for all users. Both levels of government must collaborate in assessing and planning the reconstruction and infrastructure affected by floods and instituting flood mitigation measures.

Number four, the Ministry is currently reviewing its road design manuals to incorporate flood mitigation design principles, ensuring more resilient infrastructure capable of withstanding climate change challenges. The securing of waterways is ongoing to support this very important initiative.

Hon. Cabinet Secretary, thank you for appearing. Just as a point of information, the Senate Business Committee (SBC) has indicated that the remaining questions shall be referred to next week. I hope we will have you again. That is how much we like you, Hon. Cabinet Secretary.

The Cabinet Secretary for Roads and Transport

: Thank you.

We will have you appear in this House again next week.