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Tuesday 4th October, 2016

Order, Senators! Hon. Senators, I have a short communication to make.

Hon. Senators, it is my pleasure to welcome you back from the long recess on this first day of the last part of this current Session which, as you are all aware, ends in December this year. Despite the numerous interruptions caused by Special Sittings, it is my sincere hope that you all had a pleasant recess.

Before we went on recess, the Senate conducted a substantial amount of business in line with its mandate as provided in the Constitution. Just to refresh your memories, some of the business transacted during the previous part of this session and during the Special Sitting was as follows:-

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On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I thank you for the communiqué. I note that in your communication you have referred to the peaceful rest we had during the vacation---

I did not mention the word peaceful in my communication. That is your own word.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I will paraphrase. You mentioned that we enjoyed the recess. Allow me to point out especially to the listening public that we, as FORD-Kenya did not find it enjoyable. We lost Ahmed Salim Bamahriz, the founder of FORD-Kenya. He died in a hospital in the United Arab Emirates (UAE) due to diabetes. The party leader of FORD-Kenya has already communicated to the country. I want to use this opportunity to send my condolences to the family and especially the families of his colleagues in the second liberation.

Young Kenyans will not know that Bamahriz was detained in this country in the early 1960s. They will also not know that he is one of the six fathers of the second liberation that gave us multiparty democracy which we have been forced to put in the Constitution. That today, some people are thinking of one-party rule, is not an honour to Bamahriz.

Thank you.

Order, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale. I join you in sending condolences to the family of the late Bamahriz. I do not know whether you are correct in saying that he was in FORD-Kenya. However, I remember him because we were there in the original FORD. That is where I remember Ahmed Bamahriz. When you say he was among the six originators of the second liberation, I remember him very well as a young lawyer then. I am just correcting you.

Thank you very much for bringing up that issue. It is important that we should condole with then family of the late Bamahriz.

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Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, in conclusion, I was just telling the country that it was a very difficult thing. Bamahriz, Martin Shikuku, Kenneth Matiba, Jaramogi Oginga Odinga, the late Hon. Shamalla and Masinde Muliro literally used to hide---

You must put in Charles Rubia to finish the six.

Yes, and Charles Rubia, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. They literally used to hide in a private office of advocate Shamalla so as to do their meetings to help Kenya achieve multiparty democracy. I send my condolences and hope that at no time will the country ever rise to amend this Constitution so as to create a one party state the way some misguided party leaders have started showing.

The Senate Minority Leader (Sen. Wetangula) : On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Is it on the same issue? The Senate Minority Leader (Sen. Wetangula) : Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Thank you for recognizing me. For the record, Bamahriz was among the six who founded FORD. When Hon. Kenneth Matiba and Martin Shikuku moved away, he remained with Jaramogi Oginga Odinga and Masinde Muliro to start FORD-Kenya.

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Is it on the same issue? The Senate Minority Leader (

I cannot ascertain that one. The Senate Minority Leader (Sen. Wetangula) : Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I join Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale in sending my condolences to the family and friends of the late Mohammed Salim Bamahriz. For those who may have forgotten, this is the man who stood with courage and said:-

“Serikali ya mzee Moi inasema kaeni hivyo hivyo. Hata kama umekalia msumari, kaeni hivyo hivyo. Hata kama mumekalia maji, kaeni hivyo hivyo. Hata kama mumekalia moto, kaeni hivyo hivyo.”

That is what opened Kenyans’ eyes to see that one could actually criticize President Moi. This made Kenyans start thinking that there is an alternative route in the politics of this country. I am proud to tell the country that his son is a distinguished Member of the FORD-Kenya party and he is playing a very critical role in nurturing and enhancing the desire and the oath of yours truly to be your fifth President.

Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Thank you for recognizing me. For the record, Bamahriz was among the six who founded FORD. When Hon. Kenneth Matiba and Martin Shikuku moved away, he remained with Jaramogi Oginga Odinga and Masinde Muliro to start FORD-Kenya.

Was I not right in saying that he was a founder of FORD? The Senate Minority Leader (

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Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I also join my colleagues in sending my condolences to the family of the late Bamahriz. When they were struggling during what they called the “second liberation”, most of us were in the Kenya African National Union (KANU) . The way he used to describe the then regime in Swahili was so sweet that most of us could not even narrate what he used to say.

Just to inform you, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, apart from that, I also want to congratulate him because he was just recently elected as Deputy Leader of Sen. Wetangula.

Bw. Naibu wa Spika, ninakushukuru kwa nafasi hii ili nami niungane na wenzangu kwa kutuma rambirambi kwa jamaa na marafiki wa marehemu Bamahriz. Huyu shujaa alifanya kazi ya ukombozi wa pili wa taifa letu ambao uliibua vyama kama The National Alliance (TNA) , United Republican Party (URP) , Jubilee na vyama vingine vyote. Ni kwa sababu ya kazi aliyofanya marehemu Bamahriz. Alikuwa shujaa.

Ninakumbuka wakati mmoja Rais Moi alisema: “Huyu Mwarabu ana lugha mbaya sana ya kusumbua watu. Ikiwezekana, anaweza kurudi kwao Yemen.” Sijui Rais Moi alijuaje kwamba marehemu Bamahriz alitoka Yemen. Hata hivyo, Marehemu Bamahriz alisema: “Mimi nataka tupande ndege moja na Rais Moi, tupitie Sudan ya Kusini, tumshushe pale na mimi niende zangu Yemen.” Kutoka siku hiyo, hakuna mtu mmoja aliyezungumzia mambo hayo.

Ni dhahiri kwamba viongozi wakiongea, tunafika pahali. Ninashangaa sasa hata waandishi wa magazeti wanasema kwamba Bamahriz ni mtu ambaye hakuogopa chochote. Enzi hizo aliposema tu chama kimoja kinakandamiza Wakenya, alisemekana analeta lugha ya chuki. Alipata tabu na kuwekwa korokoroni. Hata hivyo, mimi ninaamini kwamba hata Yesu alisulubiwa msalabani kwa sababu ya lugha ya kutomheshimu kiongozi aliyekuwa akitawala. Vile vile, Hayati Mzee Jomo Kenyatta na wenzake walienda jela sio kwa sababu ya kuiba, lakini kwa sababu ya kutetea wananchi. Tunaomba Mungu aiweke roho yake mahali pema peponi.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I join Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale in sending my condolences to the family and friends of the late Mohammed Salim Bamahriz. For those who may have forgotten, this is the man who stood with courage and said:- “Serikali ya mzee Moi inasema kaeni hivyo hivyo. Hata kama umekalia msumari, kaeni hivyo hivyo. Hata kama mumekalia maji, kaeni hivyo hivyo. Hata kama mumekalia moto, kaeni hivyo hivyo.” That is what opened Kenyans’ eyes to see that one could actually criticize President Moi. This made Kenyans start thinking that there is an alternative route in the politics of this country. I am proud to tell the country that his son is a distinguished Member of the FORD-Kenya party and he is playing a very critical role in nurturing and enhancing the desire and the oath of yours truly to be your fifth President.

There are two others Members seeking the Floor. I will give them two minutes each.

Sen. (Dr.) Agnes Zani!

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I also join my colleagues in sending condolences to the late Ahmed Bamahriz’s family. We acknowledge him as a leader who actually opened up democratic space that we sometimes take for granted. Never in Kenya should some people think that only some people can speak and others cannot. However, this is the Kenya we have and it is for all of us. We should move towards harmony, listen

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Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I also join my colleagues in sending my condolences to the family of the late Bamahriz. When they were struggling during what they called the “second liberation”, most of us were in the Kenya African National Union (KANU) . The way he used to describe the then regime in Swahili was so sweet that most of us could not even narrate what he used to say.

Just to inform you, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, apart from that, I also want to congratulate him because he was just recently elected as Deputy Leader of Sen. Wetangula.

Bw. Naibu wa Spika, ninakushukuru kwa nafasi hii ili nami niungane na wenzangu kwa kutuma rambirambi kwa jamaa na marafiki wa marehemu Bamahriz. Huyu shujaa alifanya kazi ya ukombozi wa pili wa taifa letu ambao uliibua vyama kama The National Alliance (TNA) , United Republican Party (URP) , Jubilee na vyama vingine vyote. Ni kwa sababu ya kazi aliyofanya marehemu Bamahriz. Alikuwa shujaa.

Ninakumbuka wakati mmoja Rais Moi alisema: “Huyu Mwarabu ana lugha mbaya sana ya kusumbua watu. Ikiwezekana, anaweza kurudi kwao Yemen.” Sijui Rais Moi alijuaje kwamba marehemu Bamahriz alitoka Yemen. Hata hivyo, Marehemu Bamahriz alisema: “Mimi nataka tupande ndege moja na Rais Moi, tupitie Sudan ya Kusini, tumshushe pale na mimi niende zangu Yemen.” Kutoka siku hiyo, hakuna mtu mmoja aliyezungumzia mambo hayo.

Ni dhahiri kwamba viongozi wakiongea, tunafika pahali. Ninashangaa sasa hata waandishi wa magazeti wanasema kwamba Bamahriz ni mtu ambaye hakuogopa chochote. Enzi hizo aliposema tu chama kimoja kinakandamiza Wakenya, alisemekana analeta lugha ya chuki. Alipata tabu na kuwekwa korokoroni. Hata hivyo, mimi ninaamini kwamba hata Yesu alisulubiwa msalabani kwa sababu ya lugha ya kutomheshimu kiongozi aliyekuwa akitawala. Vile vile, Hayati Mzee Jomo Kenyatta na wenzake walienda jela sio kwa sababu ya kuiba, lakini kwa sababu ya kutetea wananchi. Tunaomba Mungu aiweke roho yake mahali pema peponi.

I do not understand how you got more than two minutes, Sen. Muthama. Somebody is not doing their work properly.

Sen. Karaba, two minutes.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I arise concerning your Statement. In today’s newspaper, it was reported that the National Assembly is doing a lot in trying to finalise Bills, only to realise that the Bill which was headlined in today’s Standard newspaper originated from this House. That is the Bill on the Kenya National Examination Council (KNEC) . So, I would like to caution the newspaper reporters that they should dig further and get to know the root of some of these Bills.

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Sen. Karaba, I have no idea what you are talking about partly because it is not in my communication and second, I have not seen the newspaper that you are talking about. I know ---

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it so unfortunate ---

We do not get strength from newspaper reports unless you table it.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it can portray the image that we are not doing anything yet it is in the communication for ---

It is not in my communication. I have not referred to The Standard newspaper.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, did you not talk about Bills?

Our Bills; the ones that we have dealt with.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, that is our Bill but it was misquoted.

Sen. (Prof.) Anyang'-Nyong'o, two minutes. Sen. (Dr.) Machage will follow and then that will be it.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I think I deserve more than two minutes in this House to speak about my colleague, the late Salim Bamahriz. I know and you all know that I was a young turk. In those days, we joined together with the six elders to carry out the important task of fighting for democracy and the introduction of multi-party system in this country.

The late Bamahriz was a very charismatic man. He was one who was together with the ordinary Kenyans – the wanyonge. He showed extra ordinary courage to come out from the coast and join the late Jaramogi Oginga Odinga, Masinde Muliro, Martin Shikuku, George Nthenge, Phillip Gachoka and the six of us – the young turks – Raila Odinga, Sen. James Orengo, Dr. Mukhisa Kituyi, Paul Muite, Imanyara Mugambi and myself to start this multi-party journey.

For the record, Senator, it is Gitobu Imanyara.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, sorry. It was Hon. Gitobu Imanyara. You know, uzee umeingia.

So, we must enshrine those days in the history of this country. It should not only be when the late Bamahriz enters his last journey to heaven that this nation should remember him. I think this nation should have a tradition of celebrating men and women who have made a difference to the life of this nation.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, this nation should celebrate good leaders whom I describe as men and women who make a positive difference to the lives of their people. The late Bamahriz and the leaders in the Forum for Restoration of Democracy (FORD) made a positive difference to the lives of Kenyans. We have had other leaders, yes, but they are not good leaders and do not make a positive difference to the lives of their people. As I eulogise the late Bahmariz, I want him to enter into the annals of history as one who fought bravely as a good leader and who made a positive difference to the lives of Kenyans in the fight for the second liberation and democratization in Kenya.

I salute him.

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Thank you. Finally, Sen. (Dr.) Machage. Two minutes.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, those who were old enough those days know the vibrancy with which the late Salim Bamahriz approached politics. As a voiceof a minority from the coast, he could never be silenced. He spoke his mind. Some of the issues that he addressed have been addressed by the Constitution. Unfortunately, quite a few have not been addressed and especially those issues that were put forward by the first six in the creation of FORD.

It is a challenge to the current leadership. My challenge to the ruling party and the Opposition – I want one of the principals, not the “secondary school principals” but the one for the Coalition for Reforms and Democracy (CORD) to listen – as a leader of a major political party and the leadership of Uhuru, we want to hear as a minority, your position on democratic distribution of election seats in this country. We have democratic dictatorship that is taking root in this country which must be addressed by the leadership. We want to listen to your plans on protection of the minorities of this country.

Thank you.

Sen. (Dr.) Machage, I must decry the habit because I had given leave for an extremely important situation to mourn and condole with the family of the late Salim Bamahriz. I was hoping that no political statements would be made. That is the reason I stopped Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale when he wanted to move beyond that.We all must respect the late Bamahriz whom some of us also knew was involved in the second liberation. So, I would like it to rest at that so that he can rest in peace.

Sen. (Dr.) Machage, had you finished?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, as we eulogize the late Salim, let us remember what he fought for. My condolences.

Order Senators. I have another Communication to make.

This afternoon, hon. Senators, I would like to acknowledge the presence in the Speaker’s Gallery of the visiting staff from various county assemblies. The county assembly staff are here on a ten day county staff legislative attachment program at the Senate. I request each member of the delegation to stand when called out so that they may be acknowledged in the usual Senate tradition.

They are:-

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On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. It is nice to see that the Senate is applying Article 110 (4) of the Constitution to the letter. We are aware that several Bills had been taken to the National Assembly from this House. I am glad to know and notice that in respect of the two Bills that you have read to us today as well as Messages, you have ordered that they be on the Order Paper tomorrow which is immediate. Could you confirm that consultations have been going on between the Speakers of the two Houses and assure us that our Bills will receive similar treatment in the National Assembly?

Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, I do not know what you expect me to do. I have given two Messages from the National Assembly and I have told you what they say. I do not know what else you want me to confirm because we must deal with issues as they come and as they are.

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Hon. Senators, there are some Statements which are listed in the appendix. However, before they are issued, I assume that they are ready. I would like to start with the Senators who are seeking Statements. We start with the Senate Minority Leader.

The Senate Minority Leader (Sen. Wetangula) : Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for allowing me to request for a Statement from the Chairperson of the Committee on National Security and Foreign Relations on the kidnap and murder of Peter Kalamu Nyongesa.

Pursuant to Standing Order No.45 (2) (b) , I rise to seek a Statement from the Chairperson of the Committee on National Security and Foreign Relations on the kidnap and subsequent murder of Peter Kalamu Nyongesa.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the deceased was a Fourth Year student at Jomo Kenyatta University of Agriculture and Technology (JKUAT) . He was on an academic trip to Mtwapa Town, Kilifi County, organised for the Fourth Year Agricultural

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Sen. Sang, are you laying any Paper?

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I beg to lay the following Paper on the Table of the Senate today Tuesday, 4th October 2016:-

The Parliamentary Service Senate Monitoring and Evaluation Procedures for Management of Funds Regulation 2016.

Hon. Senators, there are some Statements which are listed in the appendix. However, before they are issued, I assume that they are ready. I would like to start with the Senators who are seeking Statements. We start with the Senate Minority Leader. The Senate Minority Leader (

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Hon. Senators, before we go to the next Statement, I have a short Communication.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am requesting the Senate Minority Leader and as a Member of the same Committee, to give us two weeks because this requires a bit of investigations to be done and also collecting information from various institutions that he has mentioned.

Hon. Senators, I wish to recognize the presence of visiting students and teachers from St. George’s Girls Secondary School, Nairobi County, seated in the Public Gallery.

In our usual tradition of receiving and welcoming visitors to Parliament, I welcome them.

On behalf of the Senate and my own behalf, I wish them a fruitful visit. I hope that they will learn positively from the proceedings of the Senate this afternoon.

Thank you.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg that you indulge me to seek further clarification on this very important matter. As the Chairperson of the Committee on National Security and Foreign Relations contemplates bringing the Statement, I would have to also include two aspects. The first one is what measures the Government put in place in all our universities to ensure that our children are safe while at college, going home and coming back to college.

The second aspect is that the Senate Minority Leader has spoken to the issue of compensation of the family. Could he also come armed with an answer on the state of compensation to the family of the student who was similarly kidnapped and found murdered in the same manner by the name of Solomon Muruli from Shinyalu---

Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, I am not stopping you but I want you to appreciate one thing. Sen. Wetangula has sought a specific Statement on a specific person. The danger is that if we now bring a general situation and another student, then we tend to lose focus on the exact Statement that had been sought.

What you are asking is important, but Sen. Wetangula is seeking a specific answer on a specific person and a specific situation. The trouble of riding on other people’s statements is that we tend to lose focus on the original statement sought. That is my view. If you wish to have a general statement on the security of students, which is

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Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I believe that the Vice Chair has heard you. The rules of the House are that the House does not speak in vain. Therefore, it is up to her to either come when she is ready or promise when she will have the balance of my clarification.

I was just concluding by saying that in the case of Mr. Solomon Muruli who died several years ago, the Government representatives in the House told us that they would compensate the family, but the compensation has not been made to date. If the Vice Chair has an answer, as she goes through, she could tell us the state of that compensation, because the family is waiting for it somewhere in Shinyalu, in a place called Muruhu.

Hon. Senators, before we go to the next Statement, I have a short Communication.

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Sen. Wangari, do you have a Statement? If it is about the students, you have two minutes.

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Mr. Speaker, Sir, since this is a very sensitive issue, would it be in order that we require the CS in charge to come to this House and answer questions directly from the Floor?

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Mr. Speaker, Sir, I request the Senator for Nandi County and other Senators who have requested additional information to give us two weeks to respond.

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Senator Billow.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I emphasize that this is a very important issue and Parliament - not the Executive - has the mandate to protect the Constitution, and in the process ensure the lives of Kenyans are safeguarded. Where the Executive is engaged in excesses, this House has the responsibility and will be answerable to the people of Kenya incase of failure.

It was reported this week that over 220 people have been shot by police in the first six months of this year. About 220 Kenyans shot dead by police! Last year, the actual number of people shot and killed by police surpassed the number killed by thugs and other criminals. It is a matter that we must take seriously. I want to ride on the same question to ask the Chairperson of the Committee on National Security and Foreign Relations to explain the action the Cabinet Secretary (CS) mentioned he is taking against his officers who are killing Kenyans in broad day light in whatever circumstances because these figures are available.

The Independent Policing Oversight Authority (IPOA) is reporting daily, since they carry out investigations. What action is the CS taking on IPOA reports? Not a single report by IPOA has been acted upon by that Ministry.

Senator Kivuti.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, since this is a very sensitive issue, would it be in order that we require the CS in charge to come to this House and answer questions directly from the Floor?

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Mr. Speaker, Sir, I can take three weeks. That is a very serious issue.

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I have heard you. There are many requests for the Floor. I will give you about a minute or two to seek clarification. Let us have the Senate Minority Leader.

The Senate Minority Leader (Sen. Wetangula) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, I thank Sen. Sang for bringing this issue on the Floor. In the answer by the distinguished Senator for Kirinyaga who is the Chairperson of the Committee on Education, he should also tell this House and the country why the governors of Uasin Gishu and Elgeyo Marakwet counties, accompanied by some four or five Members of Parliament raided the University and attempted to evict the acting Vice-chancellor from his office, alleging that it was because he was not “our man”.

In so doing , let me digress a little and thank the Senator for Elgeyo Marakwet and the Deputy President for telling off those ethnic bigots who displayed the most primitive and archaic behavior that one can expect in a country such as Kenya.

Finally, the chairperson should tell the House and the country whether criminal proceedings are going to be preferred against those bigots who committed the offences in broad daylight, in front of cameras. They uttered obscenities that can endanger the fragile peace that we enjoy today, particularly in an area that was the epicenter of the post- election violence.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir, is the Senate Minority Leader in order to start using strange terminologies in this House when he went ahead, named and called them governors? Why do you not just call them governors? What is this last term you are using; bigots or something?

It is a very important matter and I do not see why we should give it a week and then fail to get a proper answer. The most important issue would be to give it sufficient attention so that the House can get a satisfactory Statement. It is no longer your Statement but of the whole House. Therefore, we give it two weeks.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, he is a noise maker. There is a terminology that the Senate Minority Leader used twice.

Which one is it?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, “bigots” or something like that. If you are referring to human beings that have positions and you have already talked about governors, are you now degrading them or giving them a new terminology, name or position? It is an insult. We would rather call them by the position they hold.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Order. I have the screen.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I can take three weeks. That is a very serious issue.

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I have heard you. There are many requests for the Floor. I will give you about a minute or two to seek clarification. Let us have the Senate Minority Leader. The Senate Minority Leader (

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the country will remember that sometime last year, a similar problem arose at the University of Eldoret in respect of an attempt by Sen. Melly - our colleague here - trying to eject Prof. Agenga because she was a Luhyia. The Chair of the Committee worked on it and we got a satisfactory answer. Could the Chair come armed with the results of the investigations into that particular incidence because my fear is that Governor Mandago, having seen Sen. Melly get away with it, thought he could apply the same standard against Prof. Ayiro? Because of the issue of ethnicity cropping up, allow me to inform the country that days after Prof. Agenga had been harassed, Governor Mandago went to the streets in Eldoret and got Luhyia street children. He put then on trucks, went and dumped them in Malaba on the border with Uganda and said that he does not want them.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we would like an update of investigations into Governor Mandago. We would like that investigation to go beyond just the person because when Mandago came from the Criminal Investigation Department (CID) headquarters after being grilled, he arrived in Eldoret Town and was received by tens of thousands of people from the villages. This mindset - primitive as it is - seems to be resonating very well with the locals. If the Government does not move in, I have no apologies to say that just like the issue of the land resource contributed to Post-Election Violence (PEV) , the issue of university opportunities might contribute to violence in Eldoret.

I do not know whether the Clerks-at- the-Table took my instructions on two minutes because I had said that it will strictly be not more than two minutes.

Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo, what is your point of order? What are you against?

Order, Sen. Murkomen!

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Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I thank the Senate Minority Leader for thanking me. It is rare for such an appreciation to come from the Senate Minority Leader. I hope it is genuine because there is nothing hidden in between.

Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo, I may not be able to rule because I did not get the word that is galling you so much. I will not be able to deal with that situation.

Please do not take more than two minutes. Sen. Billow.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have a rider on the statement sought by the Senator. It appears that this whole issue is centred around ethnicity in our public

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On a point of order.

All the requests are on point of order, unless you want to say something completely different.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the country will remember that sometime last year, a similar problem arose at the University of Eldoret in respect of an attempt by Sen. Melly - our colleague here - trying to eject Prof. Agenga because she was a Luhyia. The Chair of the Committee worked on it and we got a satisfactory answer. Could the Chair come armed with the results of the investigations into that particular incidence because my fear is that Governor Mandago, having seen Sen. Melly get away with it, thought he could apply the same standard against Prof. Ayiro? Because of the issue of ethnicity cropping up, allow me to inform the country that days after Prof. Agenga had been harassed, Governor Mandago went to the streets in Eldoret and got Luhyia street children. He put then on trucks, went and dumped them in Malaba on the border with Uganda and said that he does not want them.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we would like an update of investigations into Governor Mandago. We would like that investigation to go beyond just the person because when Mandago came from the Criminal Investigation Department (CID) headquarters after being grilled, he arrived in Eldoret Town and was received by tens of thousands of people from the villages. This mindset - primitive as it is - seems to be resonating very well with the locals. If the Government does not move in, I have no apologies to say that just like the issue of the land resource contributed to Post-Election Violence (PEV) , the issue of university opportunities might contribute to violence in Eldoret.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, this problem is wider than universities. I think a political tendency is trending in this country whereby tribalism is taking the top most consideration in appointment of people beginning with the Government itself. If you form a government which expresses this state itself as the government of two communities---

Order, Sen. (Prof.) Anyang’-

I know, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

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Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I thank the Senate Minority Leader for thanking me. It is rare for such an appreciation to come from the Senate Minority Leader. I hope it is genuine because there is nothing hidden in between.

Sen. Sang, is one month okay with you?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, sometimes Senators seeking statements are a little bit disadvantaged because the riders that my fellow colleagues have sought with

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Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Two weeks, Sen. Sang.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, this problem is wider than universities. I think a political tendency is trending in this country whereby tribalism is taking the top most consideration in appointment of people beginning with the Government itself. If you form a government which expresses this state itself as the government of two communities---

Order, Sen. (Prof.) Anyang’-

I know, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

We are doing this to allow Sen. Karaba who is the Chairman of Education Committee to be able to give an indication of when he can give an answer.

In giving that answer, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, let the answer not be given out of the context in which the problem is situated. It is contextual and not isolated. If you think you are going to treat a wound by just pricking at its top, you may not succeed. I am just cautioning the House that the problem is bigger than Moi University and it is the bed of our society today.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, listening to what you have also heard, I am likely to even add one week so that I can take one month so that I will be able to answer all those questions the way you have asked. It is very serious that this thing is coming; and going by what we know, a university means - according to what Sen. (Dr.) Machage was asking - it is a lot. If we are not careful, we might lead to destruction of these universities. So, I need one month.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Sen. Obure sought the following Statement from the Chairperson, Standing Committee on Roads and Transportation regarding Mogonga-Kenyanya-Nyasembe Road in Kisii County:-

a) If the Chairperson is aware that various unfulfilled promises have been made by the national Government regarding improvement to the standards of Mogonga- Kenyanya-Nyasembe road in Kisii County;

b) If he is aware that failure to improve this road has rendered it impassable and severely affected the economic activities in the populous and high potential parts of Kisii;

c) What plans the Ministry of Transport, Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development has put in place in respect of this road and when residents should expect improvement works to commence.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the copy of the statement has been provided to the Senator. Therefore, I would like to respond as follows:-

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Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, sometimes Senators seeking statements are a little bit disadvantaged because the riders that my fellow colleagues have sought with

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The only problem I see with that, Sen. Sang, is that most of the issues raised by your colleagues – we call them riders - You heard my view about people riding on other people’s statements earlier, but since it seems to be a norm that has been accepted, you heard what your colleagues had to say about that specific issue. A lot of what they have said is relevant and pertinent to some of the answers that you have sought. In my view, it cannot be looked at in isolation.

On the other hand, I think asking for a month is far too long because if it a matter of policy, it should be there in the Government policy. Most of the issues that have been raised are questions that if you emphasize the urgency on the relevant officer, then you should be able to get answers. So, as a compromise, two weeks would be sufficient for the whole broad spectrum for you to give an answer on the issues. The reason I say that is, speaking from where I am sitting, the issues that have been raised by your colleagues are serious issues. They pertain to a university. When you talk about Moi University, you talk about an example because there are many public universities in Kenya that may be having similar problems.

So, two weeks are enough.

Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Two weeks, Sen. Sang.

Okay, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Now, that is the end of those people seeking statements. However, on those who are seeking fresh statements, in the appendix, we have three statements to be issued. Statement (a) is the one on Standing Committee on Natural Resources. I note that Sen. Khaniri is not in. Who is the Chairman on Committee of Lands and Natural Resources? Is it Sen. Kivuti? I thought he was here.

October 4, 2016 SENATE DEBATES Disclaimer: MINING OF BALLAST BY COVEC IN SOUTH MARAGOLI

Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Sen. Obure sought the following Statement from the Chairperson, Standing Committee on Roads and Transportation regarding Mogonga-Kenyanya-Nyasembe Road in Kisii County:-

a) If the Chairperson is aware that various unfulfilled promises have been made by the national Government regarding improvement to the standards of Mogonga- Kenyanya-Nyasembe road in Kisii County;

b) If he is aware that failure to improve this road has rendered it impassable and severely affected the economic activities in the populous and high potential parts of Kisii;

c) What plans the Ministry of Transport, Infrastructure, Housing and Urban Development has put in place in respect of this road and when residents should expect improvement works to commence.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the copy of the statement has been provided to the Senator. Therefore, I would like to respond as follows:-

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Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, once again, I thank Sen. Hargura for this answer. However, you have heard him inform this Senate that there is an ongoing study being carried out through PPP. I would like to know when this feasibility study is expected to be complete. If he could give an indication regarding the timelines when travellers on this route could expect to be relieved of the current difficulties?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to get a clarification, noting that this is a road I use almost every weekend. It is not once that we have had to spend the night on the road due to the congestion. It is not limited to Naivasha, but even at the weigh bridge. You can spend the whole night there when there is crazy traffic jam. There was a Presidential decree on the opening up of the road or the extension of the Green Park Road through

Eburu-Suguroi-Mastoo-Munanda-Kiptangwany to join the Elementaita-Mau Narok Road that would ease traffic and congestion on this road. What are the plans about that road? It would also help in reducing the congestion.

The other clarification is on the feasibility study on the PPP. What are the timelines? This has been said over and over for a long time. What timelines is the Ministry talking about to complete this road?

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Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I thank Sen. Obure for seeking this statement. The Chairman has tried to answer. Although he is struggling to answer, the congestion on this road is serious. Even at midnight when you travel from Nairobi to upcountry towards western Kenya, the traffic jam is just like during the day. This road was built before Independence. It is still as narrow as it was then. The Government is ambitious. It is building the Standard Gauge Railway (SGR) which will not be used by motor vehicles.

As Sen. Obure said, all the way to Nakuru there is traffic, but through Kericho to Kisii there is less traffic. The traffic from Nakuru proceeds to Eldoret all the way to Busia and from Eldoret all the way to Kitale to Lokichoggio through Kapenguria. Could he consult afresh with the Ministry to come up with timelines and budget to expand the road to a dual carriageway with three lanes on each side?

This is what Kenyans expect that road to be today. They should not be subjected to difficulties using a road designed in 1963 when there was only one vehicle on the road on particular times. It is serious. He should consult the Cabinet Secretary in charge to look into it. There are many potholes on the road between Eldoret and Kapenguria. We cannot reach home on time. They should be sealed.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. With regard to the first question on whether the necessary steps have been taken, I would like to say the

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Are you seeking the Floor again Sen. Karaba?

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Last time, the Vice- Chairperson told us that Kshs45 million was allocated to repair Sagana-Kagio-Kutus Road, but I disputed it because I felt it was not enough. I was told that the road was to be completed by the end of June. However, funds were spent on that road and it is still in pathetic condition. We are now in the month of October. Could he tell us what is happening? We want to know what this is all about because funds are allocated, spent and nothing to show on the ground.

You have to pursue that under Sagana-Kagio Road. I am repeating myself; this was a specific statement sought by Sen. Obure.

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On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I hear the Chairperson on the additional details, especially on the timelines and expansion of Green Park Road, which would ease congestion. However, he has not given a commitment as to when that information should come to this House. Could it then come from the Chair?

Chairperson, can you give a commitment on the timelines?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, all this information can be obtained from the Ministry. Maybe it can be done in two weeks.

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You are a bit impatient. The Chairperson has indicated he will give you all that information in two weeks’ time. Why do you want to declare him unable, when he has shown his ability? It is not fair.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, a similar question is still lingering in my mind. The Ministry of Roads and Infrastructure just conducts business as usual until we ask questions for them to attend to these roads. Do they not have a section that deals with inspections of these roads? This will enable them to assess increase of traffic, potholes and destroyed bridges so that they repair them immediately without Senators necessarily coming here to ask questions. This is our concern. We are not against anything. The Ministry of Roads and Infrastructure must be proactive. They should assess which sections of the roads in Kenya are congested, for instance, the one from Makutano to Wang’uru to Embu.

Every other day, there is an accident just because the road is narrow due to the unexpected development. The development rate is higher than that of the road. Why can the road constructors not assess the development of the neighbourhood so that they can enlarge the road as per the population demands?

Very well. Proceed, Chairman.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the question raised has to do with timelines; when the PPP will be completed and when the construction will be done. We will have to get extra information from the Cabinet Secretary for Roads and Infrastructure. This will require time. I do not have the timelines now. There is also the issue of the presidential directive to improve the Green Park Road. I have to get more information from the Cabinet Secretary for Transport and Infrastructure.

I would like to inform Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo that when we talk about a dual carriage, it means separating the traffic moving in either direction, so that each of them

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Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the Chairman is avoiding my question. Could you direct him to answer?

I am told that the Movers of several Bills are not in the House. Therefore, we will defer Order Nos.12, 13 and 15.

Second Readings

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I hear the Chairperson on the additional details, especially on the timelines and expansion of Green Park Road, which would ease congestion. However, he has not given a commitment as to when that information should come to this House. Could it then come from the Chair?

Chairperson, can you give a commitment on the timelines?

Very well. Due to other issues that have to be considered before the Mover moves the Bill, we will hold Order No.16 and go straight to Order No.18.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, this statement is as serious as has been stated. People cannot travel at night because the road is congested. Almost 53 years after Independence we are talking about a feasibility study on the road, which is a lifeline of Kenya. Would it be appropriate that we continue asking the Chairman when you can direct the Senate Majority Leader to go and get the information from the CS? Goods perish on the highway because of congestion on the road.

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On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I appreciate that this is a very technical subject. However, can the Senate Majority Leader briefly explain, especially this particular aspect of a child born out of science and a child born out of sexual intercourse? In this particular sense of being a human being, can he shed more light?

Order! Taking cognisance of

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for protecting me from the vagrancies of the Senator for Nandi County.

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I am told that the Movers of several Bills are not in the House. Therefore, we will defer Order Nos.12, 13 and 15.

Second Readings

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Very well. Due to other issues that have to be considered before the Mover moves the Bill, we will hold Order No.16 and go straight to Order No.18.

Very well, proceed then.

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On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I appreciate that this is a very technical subject. However, can the Senate Majority Leader briefly explain, especially this particular aspect of a child born out of science and a child born out of sexual intercourse? In this particular sense of being a human being, can he shed more light?

Order! Taking cognisance of

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for protecting me from the vagrancies of the Senator for Nandi County.

What is it, Sen. Sang?

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I know the Senate Majority Leader is the Mover of the Bill. It is his Bill and I am sure he wants the support of every Member. Is he in order to describe my request for further clarification on the point as “vagrancies of the Senator for Nandi?”

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Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki, did you actually say so?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I said so. If there is need to modify that word, I am willing to do so. However, I said that Sen. Sang is disrupting me.

Order! What you said was not palatable with the intellect and fairness of the description of the character of Sen. Sang. Could you, therefore, withdraw and apologise?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I withdraw and apologise.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I rise to support this Bill. I will take a short time to refer to only one clause in this Bill. I will seek an amendment to this Bill to delete that clause. I am referring to Clause 26 (e) that states that the authority shall not issue a license that allows the replacing of a nucleus of a cell of an embryo with a nucleus taken from a cell of any person, embryo or subsequent development of an

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There are issues that Sen. (Prof.) Lesan proposes to move an amendment on. Otherwise, with no other interest, I would have called on the Mover to reply. In the rules of the House, I am not supposed to listen to your suggestion that you are thinking of moving an amendment. Instead, there should have been an amendment already an hour before the commencement of this discussion on my Table. I am not privy to that, unless the Secretariat gives me some information.

What is it, Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, it is in connection with what you have just said. I was wondering whether the amendment comes at this stage or the Committee of the Whole.

Our practice has been that during the Second Reading, Senators can speak generally to the Bill and suggest what they think should be improved. I have been taking notes and listening to what Sen. (Prof.) Lesan has said. However, I am seeking your guidance on whether the amendments should have come now or at the Committee of the Whole.

The Temporary Speaker (Sen. (Dr.) Machage) : That is an important observation. We have two levels at which you can move your amendments. I was

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It is so granted.

Next Order! Second Reading

Order, Sen. Mositet! Have

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, in Maasailand, we always believe that the father carries the baby in the legs, but the mother must carry the baby in the womb for nine months.

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Thank you very much, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for allowing me to contribute in support of this Bill. This Bill concerns the two Houses of Parliament. Whether it is to be amended or not, we are talking about Parliament. Whereas Parliament has been referred to many times as the two Houses; bicameral Parliament, there are instances where the Senate is seen to be out of the scene when some things are done particularly in the National Assembly. Some of these things done in the National Assembly are like the ones that we have here. That is the reason why the amendment that has been moved by Sen. Adan is pertinent. Without checks and balances, which are there in the Constitution, we cannot check what might happen in the National Assembly.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, in the absence of our participation, it is seen and concluded like some of the vetting and appointments that were done even before the Senate came into place, it is like it was supposed to be done by the National Assembly. I am happy that with this kind of amendment, we are going to include the Senate as a fallback position to compare us and the National Assembly.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I would also imagine that if somebody was to be rejected through vetting by the National Assembly and that person is known to have done well countrywide and he has sympathy from the Senate, the Senate will not have any window to express its sympathy to this person who has been rejected by the National Assembly.

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Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I want to start by congratulating my colleague, Sen. Adan, for introducing this crucial Bill and amendment. Throughout this term, we have suffered from ego and not an issue of the letter of the constitution or the spirit. That is what has necessitated this amendment because we have had a ping-pong approach to matters between the Senate and the National Assembly that are unnecessary.

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It is so granted.

Next Order! Second Reading

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to reply.

First, I congratulate my colleagues for the contribution they have made to this Bill. I believe this is an important Bill. The principal law was enacted much later after the Constitution came into force. Clearly, this shows how the National Assembly was not interested in involving the Senate in the appointment of senior citizens of this country.

The National Assembly will realise that this is important and see the need for the Senate to contribute to the nomination of the leadership in this country; especially for those who are important to the county Government, for instance, the Cabinet Secretary for Devolution and Planning. It is important for this Senate to interview the nominee for the post of Cabinet Secretary for Devolution and Planning because much of his or her mandate touches on the county government.

Apart from that, this practice is carried out all over the world. This is very important. The Senate of Kenya should not be left out in vetting senior state officers as required by the Constitution. This especially touches on where it states that Parliament

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Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I rise to support The Public Appointment (Parliamentary Approval) (Amendment) Bill (Senate Bill No.9 of 2016) . You will realise that for the past four years, we have had different appointments that have taken place in our country. The Senate is a parliamentary institution that also works very closely with different appointees that we have today. These include the Cabinet Secretaries (CS) , parastatal board members and many others. Considering the work we do, we have to relate with others and keep the relationship.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, you will realise that most of the time when you meet a CS, for example, the fear they have for Members of the National Assembly is a different from Members of the Senate. The reason is the perception that vetting is done by the National Assembly. Therefore, they believe that what the National Assembly says is supposed to happen. If the Senate speaks, it is as if you are negotiating and lobbying. I will give a critical example of the Kenya Airways. When the Senate conducted an investigation on the challenges facing the Kenya Airways, there was a conflict with a committee in the other House because of the same. Since the appointees or those who were supposed to manage certain areas are vetted by one House of Parliament, then they discover that they are not supposed to be accountable to this House but to the National Assembly. This is something we need to work around.

Among key institutions that serve both county and national governments are the CBK and the IGPs Office. As much as we have different levels of Government, more importantly, we have national security that is central and key and it has to remain a function of the national Government. Therefore, both Houses must have an opportunity to vet the person assuming office. The CBK has a governor. We have to ensure that they respect the CBK. Maybe we do not get it right and that is why we have such problems. I believe this amendment will resolve this problem. The key object of the Bill is to provide

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Thank you very much, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for allowing me to contribute in support of this Bill. This Bill concerns the two Houses of Parliament. Whether it is to be amended or not, we are talking about Parliament. Whereas Parliament has been referred to many times as the two Houses; bicameral Parliament, there are instances where the Senate is seen to be out of the scene when some things are done particularly in the National Assembly. Some of these things done in the National Assembly are like the ones that we have here. That is the reason why the amendment that has been moved by Sen. Adan is pertinent. Without checks and balances, which are there in the Constitution, we cannot check what might happen in the National Assembly.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, in the absence of our participation, it is seen and concluded like some of the vetting and appointments that were done even before the Senate came into place, it is like it was supposed to be done by the National Assembly. I am happy that with this kind of amendment, we are going to include the Senate as a fallback position to compare us and the National Assembly.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I would also imagine that if somebody was to be rejected through vetting by the National Assembly and that person is known to have done well countrywide and he has sympathy from the Senate, the Senate will not have any window to express its sympathy to this person who has been rejected by the National Assembly.

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Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I want to start by congratulating my colleague, Sen. Adan, for introducing this crucial Bill and amendment. Throughout this term, we have suffered from ego and not an issue of the letter of the constitution or the spirit. That is what has necessitated this amendment because we have had a ping-pong approach to matters between the Senate and the National Assembly that are unnecessary.

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I now ask the Mover to reply.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I want to start by appreciating the Seconder of the Bill, Sen. Karaba, and Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo for his wisdom. The canvassing of the role of the county governments has actually been an ongoing process. In fact, this Bill was listed on the Order Paper but on request of different stakeholders including the Ministry and the CoG, I stepped it down so that we could engage in a more constructive discussion. We have had submissions of memoranda from the CoG. I totally feel and agree with what Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo has spoken about because this movement is basically at the grassroots level.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I am very appreciative of the process. I hope that this Bill will be supported. To respond to Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo, that is why I was saying this Bill is many years late. In fact, Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo, if you register a company, you register it under the Companies Act but this group had no legal framework under which it is anchored. The Ministry has been developing something but we were able to convince them that this Bill has already taken care of that and that they should put their input to what we already had as a framework so that we can be able to enrich it. I think that is what has happened. We have not agreed on everything but we have reached a consensus on some of the issues that will touch on the third reading.

So, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I want to confirm that I will look at the amendments as we take it to the committee stage.

With those few remarks, I beg to move.

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Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg that you defer the putting of the question to tomorrow, pursuant to Standing Order No. 54 (3) .

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the Self Help Associations Bill (Senate Bill No. 2 of 2015) be read a Second Time.

This Bill is quite critical for one reason. In our country, we have made an impact on groups and organisations; be it Community Based Organisations (CBOs) , Self-Help Associations, women groups, youth groups et cetera. Most of the monies that come from the Government use that channel to be channeled to the communities. We have had a problem. When you register a company, it is done under the Companies Act; when you register a society, it is done under the Societies Act but when you register a self-help association, there is no law or legal framework that governs that registration. The only interaction that the Government has with the groups is when they issue, review or renew a certificate. Therefore, the main role of this Bill is to give a regulatory and registration framework that will help these groups.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we have about 1.3 million groups in this country which is a large number. If this transformation that has been brought through the huge amounts of monies that have come through the groups can be seen, then we should see proper transformation. We should also monitor whether groups that got monies five years ago are still in existence today. That is not happening. So, the death of groups is higher than the registration. In fact, out of the 1.3 million groups, maybe about 600 are active.

We do not have a register of all the self-help groups in the country. In fact, groups just register to access Uwezo Fund and after that, they close shop. It then loses the meaning and the focus of what groups are supposed to do. Of course, we cannot have all of them active but we need a regulatory framework of capacity building and community development. This is because the Ministry has been charged with that mandate; that you

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Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I stand to support The Self Help Associations Bill (Senate Bill No.2 of 2015) as moved by Sen. Wangari. What the Senator has said is true. What has been happening in this Parliament is very true with regard to taking stock and audit of what we say in this House and the National Assembly. I was a Member of Parliament of the Ninth Parliament for Kerugoya/Kutus Constituency. Today, it is known as Kirinyaga Central Constituency. During that time when we were Members of Parliament, we drafted quite a number of Bills. One of them was the Constituencies Development Fund (CDF) Bill which went along to help constituencies in terms of development.

The practice has been money is allocated to a certain MP in a given area for development. The MP is supposed to come up with proposed projects which will be funded by the CDF which is established in this House or the “Lower” House. However, when that money is allocated, it belongs to the Member of that constituency. That is why you are finding it is very hard for the Senate to survive because it has no money to operate on its own. However, Members of National Assembly control CDF. Surprisingly, when it was passed, we were not allocated money in the first year of 2003. The first batch came in 2004 which was only Kshs6 million. By the time, the Ninth Parliament was dissolved, we had not even gotten more than Kshs50 million.

Today, an MP is taking to the constituency over Kshs100 million every year while on our part, we only took Kshs50 million to our constituencies in five years. They could even take more as that is the least they could take to the constituency. So, a Member could craftily say that he has Kshs100 million Fund, another one has Kshs120 million or Kshs150 million or Kshs160 million. It could go up because there are so many other funds that the MPs would like to hold like it is their funds.

That money was given discriminately; it was given to whoever was in a position to influence for more money. Some constituencies are given about Kshs10 million or Kshs20 million depending on how well they negotiate, while other constituencies get nothing.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, what the Senator is articulating is true. We need to account for whatever penny that the Government gives out for any development in the country because if all the monies were to be used properly in every constituency, sub- county and county, we would be talking of a developed country. However, we have some mischievous Members who use that money for campaigns. I am sure that the money that will be allocated to some Members this year will not be used for any development. They will use it strategically to ensure that they are re-elected. They will target regions and people who are opposed to them and their competitors. In essence, this money has been

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Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir I congratulate Sen.Wangari for this Bill that she has brought many years late. I do not know whether there is a Bill that she consulted that had been written on the same before. If there is none, then we lost it from the beginning because I am told that in 1963, in Uhuru Park, the late Mzee Jomo Kenyatta announced three things. He said that; from now, we will say “Harambee.” That was meant to assist and build one another and that is the motto for self-help association. We did not capture the spirit of the moment so that we translate this into a law which was to govern whatever was taking place.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I am told that there was a time during either the Eighth or Ninth Parliament that decided to focus on harambee only. They declared that people should not be giving out money but this is what is happening every day. Even as we speak right now, there are very many groups in the villages and rural areas that deal with their own self-help groups.

There is a group called SILK - I do not know its meaning in full. It has now become like a movement. There is another one called Table Banking. It has very many youth and women groups and so on. This is the spirit because such groups put people together in rural areas found in the counties. For that reason, I will ask Sen. Wangari not to propose to anchor this in the national arena because this is a grassroots movement. Part 2 says that there shall be a registrar and deputy registrar that shall be competitively sourced by the Public Service Commission. This should now be left to County Public Service Boards (CPSB) because that is where the real business takes place. It should be removed from the national arena except for the regulations that will be used to manage and monitor these groups from the national Treasury.

Having some employee who will lord it over the people in the counties, just like we have had cases of some parastatals cannot assist. If this becomes law, we will see a lot of groups. Villages form a ward and every ward will have this type of movement. Every governor – I cannot see potential governors here – should look at this in order to create a cooperative Bill in their counties. They should set aside not less than Kshs200 million or Kshs500 million per year which will be given as loans to some of the groups because we want to eliminate poverty and make equity the strength of the nation. Because our people are associated with this and they want it to happen, this is very timely. The activity is already taking place but there is no way of managing it.

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I now ask the Mover to reply.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I want to start by appreciating the Seconder of the Bill, Sen. Karaba, and Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo for his wisdom. The canvassing of the role of the county governments has actually been an ongoing process. In fact, this Bill was listed on the Order Paper but on request of different stakeholders including the Ministry and the CoG, I stepped it down so that we could engage in a more constructive discussion. We have had submissions of memoranda from the CoG. I totally feel and agree with what Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo has spoken about because this movement is basically at the grassroots level.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I am very appreciative of the process. I hope that this Bill will be supported. To respond to Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo, that is why I was saying this Bill is many years late. In fact, Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo, if you register a company, you register it under the Companies Act but this group had no legal framework under which it is anchored. The Ministry has been developing something but we were able to convince them that this Bill has already taken care of that and that they should put their input to what we already had as a framework so that we can be able to enrich it. I think that is what has happened. We have not agreed on everything but we have reached a consensus on some of the issues that will touch on the third reading.

So, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I want to confirm that I will look at the amendments as we take it to the committee stage.

With those few remarks, I beg to move.

Do you intend we vote or put the question?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg that you defer the putting of the question to tomorrow, pursuant to Standing Order No. 54 (3) .

Okay, I defer putting of the question.

Honorable Senators, the next order No. 19, the owner of the Motion had requested that it can be put for debate tomorrow. For Order No. 20, we do not have Sen. Khaniri in the House. Also order No. 21; we do not have Sen. (Eng.) Muriuki in the House.

October 4, 2016 SENATE DEBATES Disclaimer:

October 4, 2016 SENATE DEBATES Disclaimer: INSTALLATION ON CCTV CAMERAS IN ALL POLICE STATIONS AND POLICE POSTS IN THE COUNTRY

Hon. Senators, there being no other business on the Order Paper, the Senate stands adjourned until tomorrow, Wednesday, 5th October, 2016, at 2.30 p.m.

The Senate rose at 6.30 p.m.