June 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Tuesday, 30th June, 2015

June 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Order, hon. Senators. Pursuant to Standing Order Nos. 2121 (a) and 225 (2) (b) , I hereby, report to the Senate that a petition has been submitted through the Clerk of the Senate by one hon. Vincent Wanyama Obisa, a Member of the Busia County Assembly, concerning alleged flaws in the county budget making process for the Financial Year 2015/2016.

As you may be aware, under Article 119 (1) of the Constitution, “Every person has a right to petition Parliament to consider any matter within its authority including enacting, amending or repealing any legislation.”

Hon. Senators, the salient issue raised in the said petition is that the Busia County Assembly is acting in contravention of Standing Order No.207 of its own Standing Orders by allowing the tabling in the Assembly of the Report of the Budget Estimates Committee for the Financial Year 2015/2016 which was prepared and tabled in breach of the Assembly’s Standing Orders and without taking into account the views of any of the sectoral committees of the Assembly as required by Standing Orders 207 (5) .

Further particulars of such breach are as follows:

June 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the matters raised by the petitioner regarding concerns that the budget making process was not followed as required in law and in the Standing Orders is a very serious issue. Therefore, I want to say that it is a matter of concern among many counties. Indeed, the executive and the county governments for some reasons are not complying with the requirements of the law in regard to the process. Budgets are crafted in a manner that leaves a lot to be desired and which is inimical to the process of law and to the Standing Orders of those institutions. This is very unfortunate because these county governments are new entities.

The reason why we have county assemblies in the Constitution is to allow people in the counties to exercise their opinion and inputs in the whole process of budget making through their elected representatives. The county assemblies are not effectively playing that role. We have a situation where the process of budget making is put into ridicule. I appreciate the fact that the people of Busia County have brought this matter to the Senate to be looked at. Now that the budgets are being finalized today in many counties, there are many counties which also have a concern in this regard---

Sen. Billow, you are only allowed to make brief comments. You must wind up now.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, okay. I want to urge the county governments to put the interests of the counties first in the process of preparing their budgets because there is a lot at stake. There is the whole process of ensuring that the

June 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

I allowed you more time because you are the Chairman of the relevant Committee to which I am going to commit this petition in due course. There is a lot of interest shown on this petition; I will allow you a maximum of two minutes to make your interventions before we conclude.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the issues raised in the petition from Busia County are cross-cutting. Most counties have flouted the fundamentals in the Constitution, especially that of public participation. This is because of the fact that the county executives are the exchequer for the county assemblies, thereby; the Members of County Assembly (MCA) who support those executives become an appendage. They take those MCAs to some hotel outside the county and pass very frivolous budget estimates. When giving your directions, it is important that this House and the relevant Committee take appropriate actions to arrest this kind of situation.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, while accepting and agreeing that according to the Constitution, it is the right of every citizen to petition matters regarding misuse of resources at the county government level, we must also at some point set a standard of what constitutes a petition. This morning, we had a petition from Bomet County at the Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget meeting and the quality of the petition and what has been petitioned shows that there is a lot that needs to be done.

Whereas we agree and accept that there has to be some way in which this House can set some standards for the minimum requirement constituting a petition, otherwise, we are going to deal with hearsay and documents that do not meet basic accusations and threshold of what could amount to a chargeable document at committee level. I think it is important for this House to address this issue.

There is a notion out there that at the end of every year, money that has been allocated to the county governments must be exhausted by the county governments or it be returned to the National Treasury. It is important for this House to clarify that once money is assigned to a county by this House, it cannot be reverted to the national Government irrespective of whether the money has been spent at the end of the year or not. This highlights the importance of having capacity at the county assembly level particularly the MCAs who are not able to direct as such and oversight the expenditure towards the end of the year.

Your time is up, Senator. Hon. Senators, before you proceed with that debate, let me make a short Communication.

June 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Hon. Senators, I am pleased to acknowledge and to welcome to the Senate this afternoon a delegation from the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association (CPA), United Kingdom Branch, who are seated at the Speaker’s Gallery. I request members of the delegation that when your name is called out, you stand so that you may be acknowledged in our usual Senate tradition. We have the following:-

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. It is indeed very nice to have the delegation before us. Allow me to request them to convey to the United Kingdom (UK) our congratulations for the recently concluded elections which freed Britain from a coalition Government which they borrowed from us.

Thank you, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale. I am sure that they have got your message and that they are going to convey it when they go back to the UK.

Is Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. around?

Yes, I am, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

June 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

You are not in your usual place. That is why I am confused.

I have been displaced.

Please, proceed, Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Allow me to also welcome the delegation from the UK. Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale and I were treated very well last year when we attended the CPA Conference on Oversight by Parliamentary Public Accounts Committees. On my own behalf and that of the people of Makueni County, we send warm greetings to your House of Parliament and thank you for visiting us.

Please, proceed, Sen. Sijeny and you are going to be the last one.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I also wish to welcome our colleagues from the United Kingdom especially those from the Upper House. Welcome to the “Upper House” in Kenya.

I wish to confirm that we have shared a lot. They have a rich experience in politics especially on gender issues. We have had very fruitful deliberations, and I wish to thank you very much.

Thank you very much all of you.

Order, Sen. ( Dr.) Khalwale. The consultations are too loud.

Hon. Senators, we shall have strictly two minutes to contribute so that each of you can have a chance before 3.15pm. This is because there is a lot of interest on this petition.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Mine will even be shorter than the two minutes. I just want to state that budget approval is one of the key functions of any assembly and particularly our county assemblies. It is absolutely important that when they are going through this process, they follow the laid down procedures and the laws as written in our books of laws. The issue of getting public view is paramount.

It is so saddening to hear that this is happening in the County Assembly of Busia, in the former Western Province where I come from. As we know, in this region, the poverty level is very high and development is very low. These are the people who need to see the full benefits of devolution. I thank the Member of County Assembly (MCA) , Mr. Vincent Wanyama, for bringing this to our attention. I ask you to refer this petition as provided for in the Standing Order No.227 to the relevant Committee and that as they

June 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I also join my colleagues in raising my voice with regard to the way in which county governments are not following the laid down procedures to the extent that when the budget is done, they are tailor-made to certain projects which are not necessary in the counties. I have in mind when it is the end of the financial year like today, you will be surprised that every county government is quick to transfer money from every department to some very strange votes so that the money can be exhausted. I wonder what happened to the idea of participation by the county assemblies in budgeting. Every budget item must be spent.

We also need to make sure that no money is returned to Nairobi. So, what is the hurry of taking money on small items like county bursaries which are controlled by one man, the Governor? We do not know how the money has been spent. We end up dishing out money and the county assembly is not aware. This practice has to stop.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I also stand to raise my concerns with regard to what is happening in the counties. Fortunately or unfortunately, those who were elected in the counties, more so as Governors, are either former senior Government officers, Ministers or Assistant Ministers. What surprises everybody in this country is the way the Chief Executive Officers (CEOs) in the counties are behaving. The issue that was brought by Busia County is not just confined to Busia County. This is a clear illustration of what is happening in the other counties.

We have seen counties where budgets are passed by the county assemblies but the implementation is different. Some money is used to plant flowers by the road side while others spend that money to cut grass while forgetting the needs of the people. The hope of Kenyans is in the Senate. We must act decisively.

I tend to disagree with Sen. Kagwe that some of the petitions are very weak and do not deserve to be considered by this House. It is the right of every Kenyan to be heard by this House. To take a case to court and lose is not a problem. It is just one of the ways in which justice should be seen to exist. The Senate Committee must act decisively within 60 days to make sure that all the petitions which have been brought to this House have been dealt with. Since the court has given a ruling that the Senate has got the powers to summon the Governors that should be the way to go.

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity. I support that petition and that more should come to this House in any manner and form because this is the only way that we are going to know what is happening in the counties and whether the money that we are allocating to the counties is being properly spent. It is a pity that the Busia County Assembly did not follow the laid

June 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I also wish to support the petition. This is a very useful and very important way. This is because it is not only a means of enabling us to monitor and evaluate how counties are working but also helps us to stop these disputes right from the word go before they escalate into violence.

We have seen the problems in Makueni County. We have received some petitions from Machakos and Busia counties and many others. If you go to the root course, it always comes down to the budget. When we see that money is even stuck or counties are not utilizing all the money sent to them, it is because the budget lines were not clear, were passed very late or someone has misappropriated the purpose for what the budget line had been created. It is, therefore, causing issues.

Like now, the Ministry of Health even wants to take back to the national Government the devolved services within the healthcare. They have even presented a Bill at the National Assembly that wants to take back Level 5 hospitals to the national Government. This is all because of the problems within counties concerning budgets which have to be taken into account. We have to expedite and handle these issues very well so that the gains that Kenyans have achieved are not diluted.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I have looked at the petition and I entirely support the views that we should allow any person under Article 119 to file a petition. My only concern is the timelines for budgets. As at the end of today, all counties must present their budgets and pass them as required by law. I am also concerned about the prayers sought for by the petitioner here in terms of nullification of the reports of county assemblies. I am concerned that as you proceed to send this to the Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget where I sit, I am not certain this Committee or the Senate can nullify a report of a county assembly.

I think under Standing Order No.223, as this petition is being approved, there should be a method of verifying and cross-checking that all the parameters set out under our Standing Orders have been complied with. Under Standing Order No.223, there should have been a section to say that the petitioner had sought to resolve this in the

June 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Which part are you reading?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am reading Standing Order No.223 (f) which states as follows:

“Indicate whether any methods have been made to have the matter addressed by a relevant body ---”

Yes, but if you listened to the petition, you would have heard that he has sought disputability to the Speaker of the county assembly, the Deputy Speaker and the Clerk but nothing has happened. That is the reason he has brought it before us. We cannot be having two petitions. The one I am reading is the authoritative one. I have no idea what you have.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. At the end of this exercise, I hope that the Committee will come up with firm recommendations especially on two issues. One is the secrecy surrounding budgets in county governments. MCAs and members of the public have no idea of what budgets are passed by their respective assemblies. If they were allowed to participate, you would not have found items like pornography in the budget of Bungoma County, entertainment in Bomet County and Kakamega County where money is voted for carrying a chair for the Governor to sit from the headquarters to funerals. It would not have found as you found in Machakos, a provision of a confidential account where the Governor can spend as and when he wishes. We must allow the public and MCAs to interrogate budgets.

Finally, the issue of revenue collected at source within counties forms a central role in breaching the difference between the amount of money that the Senate gives to them and the amount that the government wants to spend. You cannot have a provision for revenue collection at source when MCAs and the public have no idea what county governments are collecting. Today, all county governments are under-reporting. In counties like Kakamega and Kisii where they were collecting an average of Kshs2 billion in a financial year, they are collecting even less than a quarter of that.

I support.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. A lot has to be done to direct counties, MCAs and citizens on what needs to be done in getting a petition to be heard by the Senate. In the former Committee of Rules and Privileges of the Tenth Parliament which I served in, we came up with the Standing Orders, which included Standing Order No.223 as quoted by Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. We put the same also in the Standing Orders of county assemblies. However, it is not well known by the people. I think the Senate needs to get a whole page of print and advertise Standing Order No.223 for people to know the procedure to be followed to petition the Senate. In any case, I believe the Speaker’s office goes through these petitions and most of them will reach the Committee after having been very well interrogated. I have seen some referred or returned from Migori County. I remember one was returned because it did not meet the threshold.

June 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Why are you raising your hand?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, thank you for allowing me to contribute to---

Order! I have not allowed you to contribute. I want to know what you do not have. Do you have the necessary tools of trade?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I was given a temporary card here because mine got lost sometimes ago. I was wondering why it is not working---

I have never known your card to work, Sen. Karaba.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it has never worked because I think the system is faulty.

You have two minutes to contribute.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I was going to say that petitions of any kind coming to this House should be listened to. This is because we have not had time to tell our people in the counties what kind of petitions are supposed to be brought here and how they should be addressed. That could be the fault of the Senate. You know what happened to the money that we were supposed to use for this exercise. We now do not have money to convene meetings so that we can educate them on how such petitions are supposed to be drafted and transmitted to the Senate.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, if we do not accept some of these things, we will be blamed. You are aware that there are some counties that have already bought dogs for security reasons. In a certain county, they are being fed at the cost of Kshs3 million per month and this is budgeted for. We are failing in our duties because we are mandated by the Constitution to tell them some of the issues they are---

Your time is up, Sen. Karaba. Thank you, Senators, for that ventilation. Having listened to you and pursuant to Standing Order No.227 (1) , the petition stands committed to the Standing Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget. In terms of Standing Order No.227 (2) , the Committee will be required in not more than 60 days from today to report to the petitioner by way of a report addressed to the petitioner and laid on the Table of the Senate. Thank you.

June 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to lay the following Paper on the Table of this Senate today Tuesday, 30th June, 2015:-

Report of the Auditor-General on the financial operations of Lamu County Assembly for the period 1st July, 2013 to 30th June, 2014.

Report of the Auditor-General on the financial operations of Siaya County Executive for the period 1st July, 2013 to 30th June, 2014.

Report of the Auditor-General on the financial operations of Homa Bay County Assembly for the period 1st July, 2013 to 30th June, 2014.

Report of the Auditor-General on the financial statements of Kisii County Government – the Executive and the County Assembly – for the 16 months period ended 30th June, 2014.

Report of the Auditor-General on the financial statements of the County Government of Kisumu for the 16 months period ended 30th June, 2014.

Report of the Auditor-General on the financial statements of the County Government of Siaya for the 16 months period ended 30th June, 2014.

June 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

As a matter of interest, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, before you lay the documents, those are five reports for five county governments.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, they are eight reports in the sense that they are reports on five counties, but in some of the counties, there are two different reports on the assembly and the executive.

Are these reports pilot or do you expect to get a report pertaining to each county?

Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. The reports started coming in from last week and so we are hopeful that the reports will continue coming in.

Are you going to lay them as they come?

Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I expect that by the end of this week, I should have laid all of them. If that does not happen, then we will have to push the Auditor-General. He had earlier on committed himself that he was going to bring them all at once and so we are equally surprised that they have not all come at once.

What is the explanation?

So far, we have not been in the loop of communication with him, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Before Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale lays the documents on the Table, do you want to raise any point of order? If he lays them, it might be too late for you.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. It is more or less the same question you had asked. I was also wondering why the reports are coming in, piecemeal. I was particularly concerned about my own county’s report because when an audit is done, there are two stages; there is the field audit and once it is completed, then it comes to Auditor-General for him to review and sign the report. I am getting reports that their field work has been completed with some qualifications – You know what qualified audit report means; a disclaimer on opinion and something like that. The fact that it is delaying in the Auditor-General’s office for weeks or months is a concern to some of us. Would you kindly ensure that these reports are expedited so that the delay does not lead to some other unsatisfactory perceptions?

Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, it appears that this might generate some interest. Sen. (Dr.) Machage, are you appearing on my screen for something else or the same?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to lay another Paper.

We will come to that.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I just want to remind the Chair that in the last financial year, only about five audit reports for five counties were produced which

June 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, are you not concerned as the Chairman of that Committee? I would like to hear from you whether it is the right of the Senate and the respective Senators to see the audited reports for their respective counties or whether the Auditor-General is doing us a favour by bringing reports in piecemeal? I want to understand what possible explanation there is that so many counties have not had their audited reports and brought to Senate because that is a core mandate of the Senate; to examine these audited reports and to make recommendations as necessary. At this rate, if we are going to get five per month or per year as the case may be, then we shall be neglecting our core duty, which is to protect counties and the audit report is basically what should show us whether or not there has been any malpractice in a county.

Before you talk, I can see Sen. Muthama wants to speak.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am very concerned about what is going on. As a country, we have the Auditor-General’s Office and yet 2013/2014 audited accounts are not there. We are now in the 2015/2016 Financial Year. There are no audited accounts reports yet years are piling up. What is the use of having reports three years down the line? Whom shall we interrogate them? Such a report is something to discuss here but we cannot take it anywhere.

We want the Auditor-General to know, through the Chairman, that we have concerns about those reports. We want to discuss them so that Kenyans can know that we are working. Money has been stolen and lost. The position is that documents are being doctored now and there is no question about that. What is holding the production of these reports? Does it mean that in 12 months, nothing has happened in the 47 counties?

Sen. Muthama, I do not want to cast any aspersions at the moment. That is why we need to see the audited reports in good time.

Is that somebody’s phone?

No, it is not.

June 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

I heard Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. saying “no”. That sounded like a phone ringing.

Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr., you will be the last one to make an intervention.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, this issue is very serious. The Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget has received a report on the special audit conducted on Narok County. That should be on the list.

Concerning the dissolution of Makueni County, a Report that was presented was the audit of the County Assembly. So, there appears to be an imbalance as to what the Auditor-General is doing.

Therefore, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, your direction should be that we should not get piecemeal reports. Allowing my good friend, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, to table five reports is like allowing the Auditor-General to do work in installments until the end of this year. That is not acceptable.

Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, you have heard the sentiments from your colleagues. Could I have your response before you table the Papers?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have heard you and my colleagues. I want to confirm to you that even before you raised the issue, I shared the same concerns with you. So far, I have confronted the Auditor-General. I was completely shocked when he told me that the reports are ready. He said that he would send them directly to county assemblies and the National Assembly and that they would be copied to the Senate. A red light flashed in my mind and I told him that, “Mr. Auditor-General, please, go and look at the provisions of the Constitution. When it comes to the laying of papers, Reports do not come to the Senate by way of being copied to but as being primarily laid in the Senate together with the National Assembly.”

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to talk about the issue of the balance of the accounts that we did not table here. If Members were paying attention, they would have heard – from some of the documents that I have tabled – that the documents have referred to “16 months preceding 30th June, 2014”. My assumption is that it is 16 months because it includes the four months of the first year of devolution which started about March. That will be in the details.

However, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, going forward, I want to confirm to the House that I will not wait until the end of the week. Having tabled these documents, I will go directly to the Office of the Auditor-General tomorrow morning. Thereafter, I will provide an on-the-spot answer tomorrow afternoon about the status of tabling of the balance of the documents.

June 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Thank you very much, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale.

Now, you may table the Papers.

Thank you. I want a comprehensive answer on that tomorrow. If the issue continues like this, we may have to make further communication regarding the same to the Auditor-General through the Clerk’s Office.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I request that as I go tomorrow, the Clerk’s Office makes available this HANSARD record. I would like to carry it with me as I go to see the Auditor-General.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, equally important, our fear is that upon the completion of the field work as put by the Senator for Mandera County, the process has taken too long at the Auditor-General’s Office. That concerns me because when you allow field reports to sit for that long in Nairobi without them coming here, you give room for interference on the qualified aspects of the reports. However, because of the passion I have for the fight against corruption, when I will be going through the Report that came from Nairobi, I will also be fed with original reports as they took place in the field. May the Auditor-General not ask me how I will get them. I know how I will get them.

As I speak now, I already have the ones about what happened on the ground in Migori County.

I direct that you get the HANSARD Report that you require before going to the meeting tomorrow.

Sen. (Dr.) Machage, do you have some papers to lay?

Bw. Naibu Spika, naomba, kwa heshima na taadhima kuwasilisha Ripoti hii kwenye Meza ya Seneti:-

Hii ni Ripoti ya Kamati ya Afya kuhusu Hospitali Kuu ya Mkoa wa Pwani.

Thank you. That brings us to the end of Papers Laid.

June 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Hon. Senators, there are very many Statements listed. However, we have a Division after this. Let us see how issues will turn out.

Let us start with Members who had sought Statements. We have them on the appendix of the Order Paper.

Sen. Billow, do you have a Statement for Sen. Gwendo?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I cannot see Sen. Gwendo around. Could I proceed?

Sen. Billow, it appears like Sen. Gwendo is not in. I request that you hold a little bit.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have seen her. I wish to respond to the Statement because it has been pending for the last three or four months. We have had the answer from March. However, every time we want to respond, she is normally not around. I will rather that if we cannot give it to the House, then we should drop the issue. I cannot be coming with the response every time.

What was it about?

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. While you weigh the options on whether to drop the requisition for a statement or not, allow me to remind you of the bad old days when Members would sometimes raise issues and then run away from receiving an answer.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Statement interrogates the performance of the Jubilee Government. I have no reason to doubt the integrity of the Senator. However, the Senator being a Member of the Jubilee Government, she might have been put under pressure not to be here. Could you allow the response to come because it is the property of the House?

Order, Sen. Khalwale! The only thing that I would not allow is for you to deliberately want to transgress Standing Order No.90. I will not allow you to impute improper motive on your colleague. I think the main issue here is whether or not once a Statement is sought, it becomes the property of the House and whether or not we should wait for the people who sought the Statement to be here before it is issued. As far as I am concerned, at least, in the other House, when I was there, a question once sought became the property of the House.

June 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Whereas I appreciate your ruling on the matter, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale has cast aspersions on a Member of this House. Would I, therefore, be in order to request that he either withdraws or gives us more light on this Jubilee issue and Statements in this House?

What did he say exactly?

He reminded you of the “bad old days,” I believe in the Ninth Parliament, where we were together with him, when Members would raise a question and then disappear, not to listen to the answer. He continued to say that, that might be the situation with regard to this Statement, where a Member, who is also a member of the Jubilee Government, has raised matters concerning the Jubilee Government and she might be uncomfortable as the answer is being read. It is not fair.

I thought he used the words to the effect that he wants to believe that this is not what has happened in this specific case. I think that is how I got him to say it; that he wants to believe that what was happening in the bad old days is not what has happened in this specific case.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, when you say, “this glass is half empty,” it is the same as saying, “this glass is half full.”

Sen. Machage, if you insist on that line, I will look at the HANSARD.

Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, you know my position on these issues. If you have taken the line that Sen. Machage says you have, I will ask you tomorrow to apologise. If you have said what I think I heard you to say, then I think that you are within the ambit of our proper rules of debate. So, we shall do that tomorrow.

Sen. Obure, do you have a point of order?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I just wanted to appreciate the direction that you have given, to refer this matter to the RBC. I do hope that when the RBC considers this matter, it will uphold the position that once a Statement has been requested here by a Member, it becomes the property of the House. This is because all of us cannot

June 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

I hear you, Senators. The issue that Sen. Billow has raised is very important, because we cannot keep bringing the same Statement on the Order Paper and the person who sought it does not seem interested in following it up. But at the same time, I am sure that there are Senators who are interested in interrogating that Statement. Let us see how the RBC will deal with it.

Sen. Sang, do you have the Statement that was requested by Sen. Khaniri?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I do not have the answer yet. But I just want to report that we did get in touch with the Cabinet Secretary for Interior and Coordination of National Government. If you look at the Statement sought, the bigger component of it is about the boundaries and the Cabinet Secretary for Interior and Coordination of National Government did forward the same to the Independent Electoral and Boundaries Commission (IEBC) . As a Committee, we discussed and resolved to invite the IEBC to come and address a number of issues on boundaries, including a number of other Statements that were sought in this House earlier.

The Ministry of Interior and Coordination of National Government made it clear that in terms of security, the Government has deployed enough security officers and they are on alert, just in case there are other issues arising out of the same. But as a Committee, we have taken the position to invite the IEBC to come and address not only this particular question, but all the other issues.

Again, you will remember that our Committee is in the process of finalizing a proposed Bill, pursuant to the Motion raised in this House by Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr., towards the setting up of an independent commission to review county boundaries. That is something that we are almost done with and it should be going for First Reading. So, as a Committee, we have taken up the matter on those two fronts.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, that is the progress that I have to report on this matter.

Sen. Khaniri, are you satisfied?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, of course, I am not satisfied. I am sure you were in the House last week when this matter generated a very heated debate. I made it very clear that the Statement was in two bits. Regarding the bit of resolving the boundary dispute, I do agree with the Senator. I think the ultimate solution will be the passage of Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr.’s Bill. But there is the aspect of security. This is a question that was raised on the Floor of the House and I expect a comprehensive answer. Just coming here to tell us that the Cabinet Secretary has assured him that they have deployed enough personnel is not good enough. Can that be on record in form of a proper statement signed by the Cabinet Secretary as we have always done, so that they can give us that assurance on the Floor of the House?

June 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I just got concerned when Sen. Sang talked about the IEBC and the boundaries. These are serious issues concerning boundaries of counties. I do not think that the IEBC has anything to do with these boundaries. These are not electoral boundaries but county boundaries, where the national Government ought to involve itself. As you are aware, in virtually every place including Kitui County, there are boundary disputes within counties and not electoral boundaries. So, the IEBC has nothing to do with this, and I can see Sen. Sang agreeing.

Proceed, Sen. Sang.

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, you know what you are supposed to do when you want to make a point of order.

Proceed, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale.

Sorry, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I pressed the microphone because I thought you will give room for further clarifications. I pressed the microphone to seek further clarification on that answer.

Still, it could have been an intervention but not a chance to debate.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, am I allowed to continue?

Yes, go on but be very brief.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, mine is to draw the attention of the Chairperson to the provisions of Article 188 of the Constitution. It is under Article 188 that we are proceeding on this matter. The Chairperson who also happens to be a renowned legal mind in this country cannot run away from the provisions of Article 188 to hide in the ignorance of somebody else, that the Independent Electoral and Boundaries Commission (IEBC) , should be consulted; that should not be allowed.

In this particular issue, IEBC has no role. The issue of boundaries is completely outside the mandate of IEBC. Under this Constitution, you only talk about IEBC when you are delineating the boundaries of wards.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, could you direct this Committee through this Chairperson to stop hiding in the bush, go on directly and bring us an answer from the Government? These are serious issues taking place between the Governors of Vihiga and Kisumu counties. It is something which we, as the leadership of the two regions, would like to see come to an end because some unscrupulous people want to play politics with our people who had been living together peacefully.

June 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Sen. Sang, you appreciate that this is an extremely serious issue. Please, switch off the microphone and take your seat. This Statement was sought for the first time on 5th March, 2015 yet it has not been given. You notice that it is an issue that has generated a lot of interest in the House. In fact, first and foremost, why has it taken so long considering its magnitude?

Secondly, I am also wondering whether it is in the right Committee because it appears to have taken on the dimension of insecurity. Are you sure it should be in your Committee or in the Committee on National Security and Foreign Relations? That is one issue that I would like you to consider. If you feel that you are seized of the matter as the Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights, then I would like to have a definitive answer from you on when you expect to issue a Statement. It cannot keep being deferred indefinitely. I do not think it is right; it is not a satisfactory position taking into account what the House has been informed over and over again about the situation on that boundary.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, when this matter came up last week, I pointed out to the Speaker that as a Committee, we realised that the Statement that was sought by Sen. Khaniri ought to have gone to the Committee on National Security and Foreign Relations but as a Committee, once an issue has been directed to our Committee, we did not have the liberty to change that. I guess what informed the Speaker’s initial direction that this request comes to the Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights, was on the boundary element of it.

We forwarded this to the Attorney-General (AG) and he “sat on it” but he finally indicated to us that this ought to have gone to the Ministry of Interior and Coordination of National Government. We took it up as a Committee to follow it up with the Ministry of Interior and Coordination of National Government. I agree with Sen. Khaniri that we can have that assurance by the Minister for Interior and Coordination of National Government in writing on the element of security.

I requested the Chairperson of the Committee on National Security and Foreign Relations and she gladly accepted to expedite the process of this House accessing that Statement.

On the bit raised by Sen. Musila and Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, I agree and that is why I indicated that pursuant to the Motion brought to this House by Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr., the Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights is working on a proposed Bill to set up an independent commission to review and determine county boundaries because that is provided for under the Constitution. I said that we have done that and we are fast tracking it. We hope that the final proposal will be available for publication within the next two weeks. We are already aware of that particular matter raised by Sen. Musila and Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, since we are interested in looking at this matter, when the Minister for Interior and Coordination of National Government indicated to us that on boundary issues, we did not find it inappropriate to invite IEBC just to get their position

June 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Thank you, Senator. By the way, that is why I am not convinced that this matter is in the right Committee because of the currency of the issue. You are talking futuristically of what you will do once the commission is formed. What Sen. Khaniri is seeking is current. He is talking about simmering hostility and tension now. Is that not so? You will not be able to do that in the Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights.

In fact, in your answer, you continued to talk about the Ministry of Interior and Coordination of National Government and the Committee on National Security and Foreign Relations. I am not convinced that this matter is in the right Committee. I would like you to look at it. As Sen. Khaniri said, the issue is current. It is happening now. You can only be talking about the future when a commission on boundaries is formed which will, in any event, deal with many issues on boundaries in so many counties.

I would like you to reconsider this and give us your considered opinion and a possible answer as soon as possible, probably on Tuesday next week.

Who do you want to inform?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to inform the House on this matter in view of your communication.

How do you get the consent of the House to be informed?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, through the Chair.

Order, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale!

June 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, last week, we sought for guidance from the Chair on how the various Committees should handle a matter that is directed to them and the Committee feels it is misplaced. We are expecting a ruling or guidance from the Speaker. Be that as it may, now that we do not have that guidance, we agreed that we will liaise with my counter-part Chair in the Committee concerned with security to make sure that we get this answer.

Very well; that brings us to the end of that issue.

Hon. Senators, I have a brief Communication.

Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I have an answer for him. You realize that the response was given sometimes back and there were some supplementary questions that the Senator wanted to know but I did not know exactly which areas he wanted me to respond to because I had given a comprehensive response.

That is my position: The additional information on Garissa Teachers’ Training College which had been closed but by the time we were responding, the students had already reported. That is what Sen. Obure was trying to know. The students have already reported to the college and a lot of work had been done by the county government and the national Government. According to what I have---

June 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Sen. Karaba, are you issuing a further Statement now?

It was supposed to be a further Statement---

What are you doing now?

I am trying to find out from Sen. Obure what he really wanted because I had given him this answer.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am aware that---

Sen. Obure, you have not sought the Floor. You just stood up and started talking. You know you have to have the leave of the Speaker.

Proceed.

Sorry, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I am aware that the Chairman of the Committee on Education, Sen. Karaba, was not here last week. This matter came up last week and the Vice Chair of the Committee, Sen. Halima, knew exactly what supplementary issues had been raised. Therefore, she came ready with the supplementary information required. If Sen. Halima is allowed to do so, we can make progress.

I cannot do that. When the Chair of the Committee is here, he is supposed to consult with the deputy and then give us a Statement. Is it okay if I defer this to tomorrow afternoon?

That would be quite satisfactory for me so that we can make progress.

Sen. Karaba, please do the necessary consultations and then give us the supplementary answers tomorrow afternoon. Sen. Halimah Mohamud had said that she is ready to give that Statement.

That is okay because she is even here.

Okay, then tomorrow afternoon.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have the Statement but last week, the Speaker directed us to wait for Sen. Munyes to come back.

Thank you. Sen. Karaba, do you have a Statement for Sen. Mwazo?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have a Statement on the Government policy on payment of part-time lecturers.

June 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

June 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to thank the Chairman for the answer. I also thank the Ministry because since I asked for this Statement, the lecturers in University of Nairobi and Kenyatta Universities have been paid. My question was in regard to the public universities. I will lay on the Table a list of 46 lecturers who have not been paid since 2013, which should be given to the Chairman to follow up so that these Kenyans who have been desperately looking for their money from 2013 can be paid their dues. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I will forward this to the Clerk.

June 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Chairman, are you going to look into the further situation?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am yet to look at that list but as stipulated there before, every university has its own rules and laws to follow, so the universities that the Senator is citing here could be those that are not known. So I would advise the Senators to make sure the list is taken to the university council of each university because it is the council which runs the university.

Sen. Mwakulegwa, you want to follow up?

Yes. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. We do not need to ask questions for Kenyans who have worked for these institutions to be paid. That is why in the first place I asked for the policy. When someone is engaged in a policy, there are terms and regulations which are specific as to when they will be paid. We ask questions when they are not paid. I have laid on the Table a paper that indicates that from 2013, the lecturers in some of the public universities have not been paid their allowances. It is not my job to forward the list of names to the respective universities which have not paid part-time lecturers. The onus is on the Government and the institutions to make sure that they pay part-time lecturers according to the terms and agreements that they signed with the people they hired.

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Sen. Musila, do you want to comment on this one?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Chairman and the Ministry have done very well because they have paid after the question has been asked but he went ahead to say that each university has its own rules. The question is; lecturers from institutions of higher learning which should set examples have not been paid since 2013. The Senator has laid on the Table a list of 46 other lecturers, who have not been paid. Would I be in order to ask the Chairman to ask the Minister to ensure that all unpaid lecturers in public universities are paid forthwith? We are not asking about private universities but public universities. Could the Chair undertake to do that?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, adding further to what the Senator has raised, there is only one Ministry of Education in Kenya for private and public universities. The list that Sen. Mwakulegwa tabled was from one or two universities. We have over 20 public universities today. We do not know how many fall in the category that the Senator has already tabled. Could the Chairman through the Ministry, table the list of all those lecturers that are suffering and have not been paid their dues? Some of these universities include, Jaramogi Oginga Ondiga University, Chuka University and other public and private universities.

Sen. Karaba, you have heard the sentiments. You have been given 46 names from public universities. If they have not been paid, then your answer is incomplete in the sense that we need to understand that as

June 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

I will do that soonest.

Is soonest Tuesday next week?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it can start from tomorrow because this is a very serious matter–

well, I like definitive answers. Telling me that it can start from tomorrow is basically telling me nothing.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, by next week Thursday, I will make sure that the answer is given.

I will not allow you next week Thursday; I will allow you Tuesday next week, which is a week from today.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I will find out why they have not paid part- time lecturers their dues.

Sen. Billow, do you have an answer for Sen. Kagwe?

Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

I notice that Sen. Kagwe is not here. That Statement is deferred to tomorrow afternoon.

The next Statement was sought by Sen. Karaba who sought a Statement from the Committee on Agriculture, Livestock and Fisheries.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. We have sought an answer on this one and have been assured that it will be received on Thursday. I request to be allowed to respond next week on Tuesday.

When was the Statement sought?

The Statement sought was about the Gatitu-Nyayo tea factory---

June 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

When was the Statement sought?

I am sorry, I do not have the date here, but this is the second postponement.

The Statement was sought on 20th May, 2015 and you were supposed to give it on 23rd June 2015, and it was then postponed to today.

I request that I be allowed to issue the Statement on Tuesday. I have already discussed it with the Senator and he has agreed.

If you have discussed with Sen. Karaba, – although it is not between the two of you because it is a property of the House

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, this is a straightforward matter.

It may be straightforward but Sen. Ndiema says that you have agreed with him that the Statement be issued on Tuesday next week.

There is no problem with Tuesday next week.

The final Statement was sought by Sen. Musila .

Sen. Dullo, do you have an answer for him?

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. We do not have an answer yet, but I would like to inform the House that I followed up on the Statement this morning and was informed that it was with the Cabinet Secretary and just waiting to be signed. I have also shared the same with Sen. Musila and he is in agreement to issue it tomorrow once it is signed.

Thank you.

Sen. Musila, are you in agreement? You sought the Statement on the 16th June, 2015.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I confirm that I had a chat with the distinguished Senator, and she promised that she would bring the answer tomorrow in the afternoon. I therefore oblige.

Thank you Senator. That brings us to the end of Statements sought.

June 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES PROCEDURE FOR APPOINTMENT OF THE GOVERNOR AND DEPUTY GOVERNORS OF CBK

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. On Thursday last week, the Chair directed that a requisition from myself from the Chair to give guidance on the appointment of the Governor of Central Bank and his deputies---

To the Chair of which Committee?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I had directed it to the Speaker himself.

I thought that you were talking about a Committee.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, sorry I had “swallowed” my English words.

The Speaker directed that the communication on the appointment of the Governor of Central Bank and his deputies would come today.

What is it, Sen. Karaba?

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. While I agree to undertake the concerns of some unpaid lecturers from various campuses---

Order, Sen. Karaba! We have moved on. We finished with that Statement long ago. We are now on a completely different matter.

Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, you said that the Speaker had promised to give a Statement today on the appointment of the Central Bank Governor.

(Dr.) Khalwale: Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

I do not have that Statement. I hope that the Speaker himself will give it by Tuesday next week.

(Dr.) Khalwale: Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am most obliged. However, I would like it to come to your attention that as soon as we raised this matter, we were then allowed to ventilate a little bit and requested the Speaker to direct that the gazzettement of that appointed Governor should not proceed until today. However, the following day, after the transaction in this House, that gazzettment was then rushed.

The integrity of this House is important. It is, therefore, important that this matter is responded to because the Governor and his deputy have been approved unproceduraly, against the provisions of Section 13 and 13 (b) of the Central Bank of Kenya Act.

Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, I have heard you, but like I said, the Speaker himself will give the ruling or further directions on Tuesday next week when he is back.

That brings us to the end of Statements. Next order!

June 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Hon. Senators, I know that this Bill is coming for Division but we quiet obviously do not have the threshold to go to Division. It would be futile to proceed on it. So, I stand it down for now. Let us proceed to order No.

Is the Chairman of the Committee on Labour and Social Welfare around? Where is Sen. Madzayo or any body from his Committee?

Sen. Khalwale, are you seeking the Floor?

June 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Sen. Madzayo, are you ready to proceed to the Second Reading of this Bill?

Yes, I am, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Proceed, Sen. Madzayo.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I beg to move that the The Public Appointments

Bill

(Senate Bill No. 20 of 2014)

be now read a Second time.

This Bill was published on 30th May, 2014. The Bill seeks to provide a framework through which county assemblies can undertake the approval of appointment of nominees to public offices within the county.

June 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker, for giving me this opportunity to second Sen. Madzayo’s Bill. First of all, I congratulate him for bringing this important Bill to the House. The Bill sets up a regulatory framework which county assemblies can use in nominating various appointees to various offices.

The main objective of this Bill is to provide a legislative framework through which nominees for appointment to public offices in the counties can go through. You are aware that this is a constitutional requirement. Therefore, this is a very important Bill for us to approve here in the Senate.

One of the functions of county assemblies is to approve the appointments of officers to various public offices. As it is right now, there is no law that guides MCAs in terms of how they do it. Therefore, this Bill provides guidance and clarity on the processes to be followed by MCAs and relevant committees. In this Bill, any nominee who applies for these appointments will be required to appear before a committee of MCAs for vetting.

Clear provisions have been put by Sen. Madzayo. He has provided that all committee proceedings to public appointments shall be open and transparent in vetting a candidate. The academic credentials of a candidate have been set out in this Bill in terms of professional training and also relevant experience, personal integrity and background.

June 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Madam Temporary Speaker, I rise to support this Bill. It has come at the right time. We are now entering the third year of devolution. `

I want to thank Sen. Madzayo that he found it fit to look at the law from the perspective of Kilifi County and was able to note what is missing and is causing problems in almost all the counties. When County Public Service Boards (CPSBs) send out notices of recruitment, there are a number of malpractices which have been noted in some places, for example, corruption. I am even told of a young man who sold some cows in order to get a job as a security guard in a county. This is not indicated here, but we already know those malpractices are happening in our counties.

They are happening because there is no law on the ground to set out criteria as to how recruitment should be carried out. The people whose names have been forwarded to

June 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

June 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Hon. Senators, I wish to recognize the presence of the students and teachers of Githongo Boys High School form Nyeri County seated in the Public Gallery. They are visiting the Senate today.

As you know, hon. Senators, in the tradition of receiving and welcoming visitors to Parliament, I wish on my own behalf and on behalf of the Senate to extend a warm welcome to the students and teachers of Githongo Boys High School.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker for giving me the opportunity to contribute to this wonderful Bill. I commend and thank Sen. Madzayo, who is a retired judge, for coming up with this Bill. I am not surprised that he came up with it. Having been a practitioner as an advocate and a Judge serving at the Industrial Court for a long time, he knows some of the issues that bring disputes concerning labour,

Madam Temporary Speaker, indeed, this is an appropriate time. Parliament should borrow a leaf from this Bill. Its object is very clear. It provides a procedure for approval of public appointments by county assemblies. It is clear and does not leave anything to chance.

Madam Temporary Speaker, it will enable us, as the Senate, to perform our oversight role. It will give us easy time to monitor and evaluate, especially in the aspect of employment and reduce the friction that may come up. Recently, we saw in the media people complaining that there is bias and nepotism when it comes to employment. As a result of that, people from some communities are losing jobs while others are not being appointed. That would be a thing of the past if this Bill is enacted. There will be uniformity. That is what we want. Once this Bill is passed here, it will be sent to the counties. That will ensure that nobody comes up with their own rules and regulations and other dubious manners of employing members of the public because it is a right of every Kenyan to be employed.

Madam Temporary Speaker, the procedure is very clear. It gives everything required when it comes to vetting. Among the requirements, there should be notification and approval. There is nothing left to chance.

June 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

The Senate Majority Chief Whip, Sen. Elachi.

Madam Temporary Speaker, first of all, I would like to thank the Chairman of the Committee on Labour and Social Welfare, the Senator for Kilifi County, Sen. Madzayo for bringing this Bill to this House. I believe it will bring sanity in terms of public appointments and approval in county governments.

Madam Temporary Speaker, in the previous vetting, sometimes people with requisite qualifications were scared because they did not know what kind of questions they were to be asked. In the past, we did not have a checklist or criteria on how to ask some key fundamental questions when vetting a nominee to a public office. We also do not have a clear direction concerning family issues. For example, we could ask a person whether he was okay to be vetted in public or camera. It is important to protect a family as provided for in the Constitution.

We need a criterion which will make it possible for the nominee to feel comfortable before the vetting committee. He has a right to say whether he felt

June 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo, are you on a point of order or a point of information?

I am on a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker. Could the Senator clarify what she has said? She has said that when Jesus was looking for his disciples, there was a criterion. I do not know how the criterion is related to what this Bill is proposing.

In my opinion, the Senator is trying to advocate for the spirit of transparency. However, Sen. Elachi, you should proceed and explain to Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo about what you meant.

Madam Temporary Speaker, Clause 7 of the Bill indicates that an approval hearing shall focus on a candidate’s academic credentials, professional training and experience, personal integrity and background. I am just trying to expound on it. People should not fear their backgrounds being scrutinized because it was done even during the days of Jesus. During that time, someone would have wished to know whose son or daughter, he was dealing with.

When my son or your daughter will go for interview, they will consider our backgrounds and what we did for the country. Many Kenyans fear that their backgrounds will be known by the members of public. For example, the vetting committee of the National Assembly is fond of asking nominees whether they are married or not. Why are

June 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker. I am wondering if it is in order for Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo to raise the example of Jesus Christ, when he was appointed.

Hon. Senator, we have already moved on from Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo’s intervention. So, you can only raise a point of order on the person who is on the Floor.

Madam Temporary Speaker, if you could give me some indulgence. Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo is a Christian. We are all trying to follow the example of Jesus Christ in every respect. Is he in order to question that?

Proceed, hon. Senator.

Madam Temporary Speaker, finally, I want to thank the Committee chaired by Sen. Madzayo. With this Bill, many Kenyans will feel confident as they go for vetting before county assembly committees.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I beg to support.

On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker. I want to clarify this for the Members who are not Christians.

So, it is a point of clarification.

Yes, Madam Temporary Speaker.

Okay. Proceed.

Madam Temporary Speaker, the criteria for being a follower of Christ is stated. You must accept Christ as your personal saviour and follow him. So, that criteria cannot be compared with how we should get good county government workers.

We should bring that to a close because, to the extent of Christianity and the person of Christ, none of us in this House is an absolute authority.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker, for giving me an opportunity to comment on this Bill. I would like to start by congratulating the Mover. This Committee is chaired by the Senator and retired Justice Madzayo. He is one of the very good Senators who have not bullied a new Senator like me. He has, instead, taught me the ropes. I also thank the entire Committee for bringing this Bill to the House.

Madam Temporary Speaker, one might argue that we could be late in coming up with this Bill, but as our elders say, it is better late than never. If you look around you will find that Nakuru and Kisumu counties have come up with a similar Bill. The question would be: When the Senate comes up with a Bill like this, how then do we relate with the Bills that are almost replicas? If you look at the Bills coming from Nakuru and Kisumu counties, they are almost a replica of this Bill. I believe that this Bill has got some improvements over the ones that come from counties. So, when we have this Bill

June 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

June 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

June 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Madam Temporary Speaker, I am touched by Sen. Kajwang’s contribution this evening, especially with regard to our late brother who has passed on to the next world. He did a good job in Homa Bay. I join my colleague to appreciate the work that the former chairman of the CPSB in Homa Bay did. His example should be followed by many other people of integrity who would like to make sure that their office is run in a manner that adheres to the Constitution and the principles of good governance in Article 10 of the Constitution.

Having said that, I thank the Senator for Kilifi for bringing this Bill at this time although some of the shortcomings it intends to cure could have passed us because of the absence of such a Bill. This Bill will still help to make sure that county governments are run in line with the Constitution.

The county government has its own civil service. At the moment, if you look at most counties, the composition of these civil service is incomplete, inadequate and is one of the causes of problems of under-capacity in the counties. The County Governments Act lays down clearly the structure of the civil service in the counties. It begins from the Village Council, goes to the Ward Administrator to the sub County Administrator, then to the executive in the Governor’s office.

As I speak, most counties do not have village councils. If you remember well, the Assistant Chief in every sub-Location has what are called village elders. This is the kind of village or sub Location Council on which the Assistant Chief relies for governance at the local level.

June 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

June 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

June 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Madam Temporary Speaker, I rise to support this very important Bill. Allow me to register my congratulations to the Mover of the Bill because he has captured what cuts right across all the 47 counties.

June 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

June 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

What is it, Sen. Ong’era?

June 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Madam Temporary Speaker, kindly hold my time. I still have a lot of time left.

On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker. Did you hear what the distinguished Senator for Kakamega County said? Is he telling us that the youth who are 20 or 25 years of age cannot seek elective positions if they are not married? Is it only married people who can seek elective positions? The Senator is out of order and you need to rule him out of order.

Senator for Kakamega County, that did not come to my attention. Did you make that kind of a statement?

Madam Temporary Speaker, the distinguished Senator is actually putting in her own argument for which I cannot fault her. I did not say what she said. What I said is that, in many communities, just like in my community, it is fairly difficult for one to win an election, unless he has a family. I did not say that one should not be allowed to serve in public office.

So, you were just translating what happens in many communities.

Exactly.

Please, proceed.

Madam Temporary Speaker, if a 20 year old can convince himself into a job, why would I stop him? After all, I started public service at the age of

Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, at this point, I wish that you could have introduced all these proposed amendments procedurally. Otherwise, you realize that all the good proposed amendments will be treated just like part of your contributions. They will not alter the content of this Bill.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I am guided. However, I am aware that during the Committee of the Whole, I will still have an opportunity to make written amendments that can then be admitted.

Very well. Please, proceed.

Madam Temporary Speaker, in the First Schedule, No.16, they are asking for the employment record. One can just say that “I worked for Nation Media Group as CEO, then went and worked for Mumias Sugar Company as CEO.” I would like, as you list - it does not matter whether you were paid in shillings, dollars, pounds or bananas. I would like that the person be asked, as they moved, what were the

June 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

June 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Thank you, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale. Please, proceed, the Senator for Trans Nzoia County, Sen. Ndiema.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker, for giving me this opportunity to contribute to this very important Bill. The Bill is very important in terms of how counties run and engage their staff. Perhaps, this Bill is even coming late. It should have been there when counties were being established because what we have noticed so far is that, the manner in which appointments have been done, perhaps, is not what we would have wished if this Bill was there. It is good that this Bill comes to regulate and set criteria for nomination and appointment of officers to the County Public Service (CPS) .

We cannot say that the appointing authority which is the CPSB has been independent. They are supposed to be, but the way they are run is that the executive is the one setting the pace and influencing even creation of positions. County assemblies are not independent and not even well facilitated to do proper job evolution and specification.

June 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

June 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

I call upon the Mover of this Bill to reply.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker, Sir. With your kind permission, allow me to pass my condolences to the Hon. (Dr.) Mukhisa Kituyi for his son’s death. I would also like to pass my condolences to the family of my former colleague and friend who as a distinguished lawyer, Mathews Oseko. To his wife I say: Pole sana.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I sincerely want to thank all my distinguished colleagues for their very able contributions. I have had the opportunity to record quite a number of them. I want to assure the House that all their contributions shall be taken into account. More importantly, I want to encourage them to bring forth any amendments that they may have. We, as a Committee, shall take all those amendments into consideration. This will ensure that favouritism, tribalism and nepotism in the county governments in terms of appointments will come to an end.

June 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Request granted. We take the Question next week on Wednesday at 2.30 p.m.

Next Order! Second Reading

Madam Temporary Speaker, I beg to move:- That the Food Security Bill (Senate Bill No.23 of 2014) be now read a Second Time.

Madam Temporary Speaker, this is a historical Bill. This Bill will ensure that, once and for all, we realize solutions to some of the challenges we have faced since Independence and also since the first Sessional Paper on food Security was done in 1965.

The Memorandum and Objectives of the Bill are very clear; to provide a framework for the realization of the right to be free from hunger and to adequate food of acceptable quality as guaranteed under Article 43 (3) of the Constitution. Part I of the Bill deals with preliminary matters and sets out the Objects and Purposes of the Bill and the principles that will guide the county governments and other actors in the implementation of this Bill.

Part II of the Bill elaborates the issue of the right to food as articulated under Article 43 of the Constitution. It also confers various obligations on the national and the county governments in ensuring that freedom from hunger and the right to adequate food is realized.

Part III of the Bill provides for the establishment of the Food Security Authority; the composition of the Authority and its functions as relates to the formulation of policies, programmes and strategies for implementation by county governments and the establishment of monitoring and evaluation mechanisms to determine the suitability of interventions put in place to ensure food security.

Madam Temporary Speaker, this is also a Bill that before it was established, we went round more than 20 counties with the African Women Studies group of the University of Nairobi to carry out findings in order to understand what we mean when we talk about food security. This was also to just understand how in our country we look at the issue of hunger. How do families survive in our country? This research was also

June 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Sen. M. Kajwang, do you have an intervention?

Yes, Madam Temporary Speaker, I have an intervention. Could the good Senator explain to us what she means by “cow cash”?

Sen. Elachi, what did you mean exactly? Did you mean cash cow or cow cash?

Madam Temporary Speaker, I meant cash cow. I have said that in many years, we have had different projects where when people see that something is being constituted or established, you will realise that each one of

June 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

June 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

You have started anointing people in the Senate.

Proceed.

Madam Temporary Speaker, she has given me a new title.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I beg to second this Bill. For the very first time and, in consultation with people in the agricultural sector, we have a Bill that is specifically dedicated to food security. We have always had policies that have been driving the demand and provision of food, from the 1963 Sessional Papers and so on. Even with the over 240 parastatals that we had before, there is none that has always really come out to state boldly and clearly that there is need for a law dedicated to the provision of food for every Kenyan.

June 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

June 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Madam Temporary Speaker, thank you for giving me a chance to contribute to this wonderful Bill. I am not surprised that it has been brought by a woman and mother. Mothers are very sensitive to the good health and well-being of, not only their children, but the entire nation. They are the mothers of the nation, if not the world.

June 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

June 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Madam Temporary Speaker, thank you for giving me this opportunity to support this Bill. First of all, I would like to congratulate Sen. Elachi for bringing a Bill on Food Security. As you are aware, this Bill provides for effect to Article 53, Article 21 and Article 43. Apart from providing for acceptable food, it also provides for adequate food and a nutritious diet.

As the Seconder of this Bill stated, we have never had a Bill in this country that talks about adequate and nutritious food. Therefore, this is a Bill that we want to support. However, I would not want to support it, if it will bring devolution down. Therefore, at the right time, we will be proposing the necessary amendments so that the principle of devolving agriculture to the counties and the issue of food security remains with the counties.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I would like to look at the composition of the board that has been proposed. While it is a good idea to have a board, we should not try to centralize and bring back agriculture to the national government through the backdoor by centralizing certain provisions and have them at the national level. I would want to see a situation where more of the county officials are involved in the composition of the board so that we can have involvement of the counties.

Order, hon. Senators! When the Bill next appears on the Order Paper, Sen. Ong’era will have 13 minutes to conclude her contribution.

Hon. Senators, it is now time for interruption of the business of the Senate. The Senate, therefore, stands adjourned until tomorrow, Wednesday 1st July, 2015 at 2.30 p.m.

The Senate adjourned at 6.30 p.m.