Tuesday, 21st February, 2023

Hon. Senators, I want the Clerk to ascertain whether we have quorum.

Let us proceed. The Senate Minority Leader

(Sen. Madzayo)

: On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Yes, what is out of order? The Senate Minority Leader (Sen. Madzayo) : Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, last week, we communicated to your Office with regard to changes made in the Leadership of the Minority side. From last week up to today, this Communication has been lying in your Office.

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Yes, what is out of order? The Senate Minority Leader (

What do you expect me to do when we get to Order No.2? Is it to sit or stand, so that I can give any communication?

You are out of order, Senate Minority Leader. The Senate Minority Leader (

Senate Minority Leader, can you, please, have your seat? I am on Order No.2. You should expect any Communication from the Chair. You did not follow the sequence.

The Senate Minority Leader (Sen. Madzayo) : Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, that is fine. Maybe I did not hear you properly. However, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale should behave himself.

We are on Order No.2, Communication from the Chair. So, what is out of order? Is it that I stood to give communication? The Senate Minority Leader (

Can the Senators kindly have their seats? Hon. Senators, as you may recall, at the Sitting of the Senate held on Wednesday, 15th February, 2023, the Senate Minority Leader rose on a point of order seeking the directions of the Chair regarding a proposed change in the leadership of the Minority Party.

The Senate Minority Leader asserted that he had communicated changes in the leadership of the Minority side the previous day and was concerned that the changes had not been effected and communicated to the Senate.

The Senate Minority Leader, more or less, demanded that the changes be communicated at that Sitting, alleging that failure to do so portrayed badly on the part of the Speakership.

I will request Senators at the bar to come in and take their seats. This is a long Communication.

Hon. Senators, as you will recall, I undertook to issue a Communication on this matter. This morning, at a meeting of the Senate Business Committee, I indicated to the Committee that the Communication was ready and was to be communicated today. However, this afternoon at 1.15p.m. the Speaker of the Senate was served with an order from the Political Parties Disputes Tribunal (PPDT) in Political Parties Disputes Tribunal Number PPDTC/E003/2023; Fatuma Adan Dullo and Jubilee Party of Kenya vs Azimio la Umoja One Kenya Coalition Party, in which the Speaker of the Senate is enjoined as the 3rd Interested Party.

The Tribunal issued, amongst others, the following order: “That pending inter-parties hearing and determination of the application, interim orders of injunction are hereby issued restraining the Respondent and Interested Parties, either by themselves, their servants, agents and/or any other persons acting on their behest from implementing the communication and

What do you expect me to do when we get to Order No.2? Is it to sit or stand, so that I can give any communication?

Hon. Senators, the Minority Leader will be heard in absolute silence.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, do you hear these kinds of manners?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, that is fine. Maybe I did not hear you properly. However, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale should behave himself.

Can the Senators kindly have their seats? Hon. Senators, as you may recall, at the Sitting of the Senate held on Wednesday, 15th February, 2023, the Senate Minority Leader rose on a point of order seeking the directions of the Chair regarding a proposed change in the leadership of the Minority Party.

The Senate Minority Leader asserted that he had communicated changes in the leadership of the Minority side the previous day and was concerned that the changes had not been effected and communicated to the Senate.

The Senate Minority Leader, more or less, demanded that the changes be communicated at that Sitting, alleging that failure to do so portrayed badly on the part of the Speakership.

I will request Senators at the bar to come in and take their seats. This is a long Communication.

Hon. Senators, as you will recall, I undertook to issue a Communication on this matter. This morning, at a meeting of the Senate Business Committee, I indicated to the Committee that the Communication was ready and was to be communicated today. However, this afternoon at 1.15p.m. the Speaker of the Senate was served with an order from the Political Parties Disputes Tribunal (PPDT) in Political Parties Disputes Tribunal Number PPDTC/E003/2023; Fatuma Adan Dullo and Jubilee Party of Kenya vs Azimio la Umoja One Kenya Coalition Party, in which the Speaker of the Senate is enjoined as the 3rd Interested Party.

The Tribunal issued, amongst others, the following order: “That pending inter-parties hearing and determination of the application, interim orders of injunction are hereby issued restraining the Respondent and Interested Parties, either by themselves, their servants, agents and/or any other persons acting on their behest from implementing the communication and

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we have gone full circle. This is a very interesting debate. If I were to be honest, and I want to be as candid as I can be, I am a bit confused on this topic.

I have defended both sides of this debate. I have been on the side of ‘Parliament cannot be injuncted’. I used to shout so loudly when seated where Sen. Kinyua is for many years because that was the vogue word. That is the thing that I heard when I first came to this House, being said during the impeachment of Deputy Governor Kiala.

We said that Parliament cannot be injuncted. Therefore, we enjoyed many times. Every time there were court orders that were brought before the Speakers, we took a very firm position until one bright sunny morning when the retired President Uhuru Kenyatta decided to remove our colleagues; Sen. Kihika and Sen. Murkomen. We rushed to court, secured the orders, brought them before the Speaker and then, we were quickly reminded that Parliament cannot be injuncted.

Here we are; a practice that we had established so strongly and used to be defenders of. Despite having a valid court order presented to the Senate Speaker, Hon. Lusaka, in minutes, received a phone call. I have never seen my good friend, the Speaker, shake as he did that morning. He quickly dashed to the House and communicated the changes. That gave me a different view to this conversation about ‘the House cannot -----

Sen. Madzayo, I request you to refrain from that cross-exchange.

I am happy. Today, I want us to debate like hon. Senators. Hammer you points properly and sit down; another Senator will come and take over.

I thank you.

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Kindly, I am following a list here. You have already placed you card. Just have your cool and wait. I will give you that opportunity.

Senate Majority Leader, Sen. Cheruiyot, you have the Floor.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I was trying to rise on a point of order.

Sen. Madzayo, I request you to refrain from that cross-exchange.

In fact, I intend to be very brief.

I am happy. Today, I want us to debate like hon. Senators. Hammer you points properly and sit down; another Senator will come and take over.

Thank you. That is what I intend to do. I am sure he will have his opportunity to say what he thinks about this particular topic.

If you can restrain, Sen. Sifuna because he stands straight and---

If you read Standing Order No.103 - and I am happy that I am in this House with my colleague, Senior Counsel Sen. (Prof.) Tom Ojienda - it prescribes that even when there are proceedings that can be deemed to be sub judice, there is a way you bring those proceedings before the House. You are now talking about proceedings which have not been tabled in this House and we are debating a matter we do not know. I have not seen these proceedings and do not know who has filed them against who, but here we are debating. You should have procedurally asked the person who is affected by those orders, in line with Standing Order No.103, to bring the pleadings and table them before the House, then we debate to determine whether what we are about to debate is Sub Judice.

I respect the courts. I have been a lawyer for Sen. Cherarkey. When he was being shunned by everybody from the Majority side, I was the only one representing him in court at 4.00 p.m. I defended Sen. (Dr.) Lelegwe here, and I am a respected man in his county. I am standing here in defence of this House and the rule of law. I would say the same even if it was happening on the other side because I know the critical role that this House plays. If tomorrow the Governor for Nyamira is summoned and he serves us with an injunction, then what will be my work as the Senator for Nyamira?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, I plead with you to reconsider what you are about to do for the sake of this country and House. Sen. Cheruiyot, I am pleading with you; do not look at these small fights here. Look at the interest of this House. Let us not kill this House.

I have said that we have precedent. Sen. Kang’ata was a Majority Whip. You sat and passed resolutions. The former Speaker was not even a lawyer; I am happy the substantive Speaker is a lawyer. Members of the Law Society of Kenya (LSK) are looking at him.

I once served as the chair of the LSK when the late Chief Justice of this Republic, Justice Gicheru, swore in the late President Kibaki at night. We told them that those things would come back to haunt him. When Kenyans enacted the Constitution 2010, a proviso was put in that Constitution barring the Chief Justice from doing the same. You must protect your office and the reputation of the office of the Speaker for posterity.

If there is any court order or pleadings, bring them to the House. Table them here, we debate and make a decision. We are a senior House, the ‘Upper House.’

Senators, I rest my case.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, today we are here. There is a court order, but there is something different.

I have taken time to look at the court order. Unlike in all the previous court orders that were addressed to the Senate, this one specifically mentions you as the Speaker. That leaves me in a very interesting place.

It is not in my place to advise you. It is you to make your decision because you are the Speaker. However, I am not sure whether you want to proceed and defy a court order that is directly mentioning you as the Speaker and not the institution of the Senate, as has been the case previously.

The order that we were carrying then was to the Senate, but not directly to the Speaker. That was the leeway that the then Speaker used and said that, in any case, it was not him that has been mentioned.

Finally, I know my colleagues want us to debate this matter, and they are saying we should not involve yourselves. However, I agree with the Senate Minority Leader that there is precedent.

Hardly two months ago, the National Assembly was vetting Principal Secretaries. The Law Society of Kenya (LSK) moved to court on certain issues that they found to be wanting. What did your good brother in the National Assembly do? He lived up to the spirit of the Constitution, as was his interpretation, and waited.

The National Assembly was injuncted for about one month. In fact, the Government stayed for close to two months without Principal Secretaries because of a court order. The process was ongoing, but the Speaker said that, first, he is a law- respecting Kenyan. Two, he swore by the Constitution and, three, as somebody who campaigned and actively promised Kenyan, because there is a history in our country, when court orders were being ignored--- It was one of our campaign promises that, at least, for those on this side that we shall always respect court orders.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, you are being invited to tread on very dangerous ground, which is to defy a court order that is directly addressed to you. I leave it to your wisdom, but at least on this particular matter, I urge you take precedent from what your senior brother, the Speaker of the National Assembly, did when he was presented with a court order against the vetting of Principal Secretaries. He waited until that decision was vacated by the courts and the exercise was concluded.

In any case, I have seen that the order is for only three or four days. How long is that? Some of the points that my god friend, the Senate Minority Leader is urging can be made before that court. They have an opportunity to go and tell the court all those nice things that he is saying.

Indeed, he is right. I agree with him. You are not party to this dispute. These are divorce proceedings in the Azimio Coalition. You are neither one of the dowry negotiators who featured during the time that they were getting together, neither should you feature in their divorce. Unfortunately, your hands are tied. Therefore, make your decision, but be wise on how you go about it.

We were not elected to come here and waste taxpayers’ money discussing little things as to who sits in which Committee and representing which side of the House; we were elected to come here to do oversight, discuss the budget and represent our people.

I appeal to the chief administrator of justice in this country, hon. Lady Justice Martha Koome to make sure that such kinds of issues are discharged expeditiously.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, you are not to blame. There are court orders against you. What kind of a Speaker would you be if you were to defy courts? You cannot be known for that.

Sen. Omogeni knows that tribunals have the same powers as those of courts. If the Deputy Speaker defies the Tribunal, then he has no respect for the Lower, High, Appeal and the Supreme Courts. Let us be angry, but allow the Deputy Speaker to do what he is doing. He has been served. He should observe the rule of the law.

I need the Senate Minority Leader to give me attention. Sen. Omogeni, if you have to quote the precedents of this House, do us a favour. You have quoted precedents of Sen. Murkomen, Sen. Susan Kihika and Sen. (Dr.) Irungu Kang’ata. If you must quote, do not quote precedents that were occasioned by the infamous “handshake” Government.

The precedent you can quote, Senate Minority Leader, is the one that took place in the “lower” House, where the same courts, the way they have done, stopped the vetting of Principal Secretaries. The President and the hon. Speaker stopped, a ruling was made and the matter was unlocked.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we invite you to use the precedent by Sen. Wetangula, the current Hon. Speaker of the National Assembly. Please, allow this matter to go the due process and then come back to us to give a ruling. We are with you and you are for us; we are for you; for the country.

Let there be no games played here. Let these things end quickly through the due process being respected instead of coming here, taking us round, walking out of the House; going to Kakamega over the weekend and singing to women. Let us finish it here.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, do not be intimidated by me or the Senate Minority Leader. Walk the narrow path of the rule of law. There is a court order against you ruling on this thing. Wait. When it is discharged, do your work.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, do not listen to the point of order from the Senate Minority Leader.

Sen. Sifuna. Hon. Senators, if you have placed your card for intervention, kindly hold on. I am picking from what I am seeing.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Last week, I was getting hot and bothered about this matter. Now that I know exactly what is going on, I am just laughing. I have discovered that they are just basic political games. I would use the word ‘cheap,’ but people will jump out of their seats.

When I was elected, I came to this House thinking that I would be legislating, oversighting and representing my people of Nairobi. Last week, someone added that I

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, let us be serious. If you look at the freedom of Parliament from history, there are days you could not stop hon. Shikuku, in the single party era, from speaking on the Floor because of the respect of the House. I have not seen the court order, but I am extremely saddened that the Senate of the Republic of Kenya can be injuncted by a tribunal, we receive an order and you make a Communication. What are we doing to this country?

Hon. Sifuna, I reminded you in the morning that you are the Senator of my children. Teach them also how to represent. My children were born in Nairobi.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I hope that your children are watching. I will be saying a few things, and I hope that I can inspire them to be future senators of Nairobi.

First, I am happy that we have come to this juncture. I was imploring you last week to get this matter out of your office, so that we can pursue the dispute between us and one of our Members in the proper forum.

I agree with Sen. Dullo on the action that she has taken. The proper forum for resolution of disputes between political parties and their members, or political parties and political parties within a coalition, is the Political Parties Disputes Tribunal (PPDT) .

The Minority Side has been vindicated because we were telling the House last week that the Speaker has no role whatsoever in the disputes in the Minority Party. The Standing Orders require the Speaker to make a communication to the House upon receipt of this decision that has been made by the Minority Party, so that everyone is aware.

Secondly, jurisdiction is everything in law. Every single court and tribunal in this Republic has to derive jurisdiction from a specific provision; either of the Constitution or of an Act of Parliament. If the law does not give you jurisdiction, you cannot assume that jurisdiction by yourself.

The jurisdiction of the PPDT under Section 40 of the Political Parties Act is limited to the matters that I have alluded to; disputes among members of a party and a party, or a political party against another political party. That jurisdiction does not extend to a jurisdiction over disputes in this House. The Tribunal has no jurisdiction over the Senate.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, if you want to know that the people who went to the Tribunal in this particular matter are aware of that fact, the Speaker of the House is not a respondent in that matter. They are named as an interested party.

Thirdly, because of my nature as a fortuitous person, I have obtained a copy of that court order. A plain reading of the order has limited the matters before that Tribunal to the question of the seat of the Whip of the Minority Side. The question of the seat of the Deputy Whip is not a matter before the Tribunal and is not covered by that court order that you referred to.

The question should be if whether we can debate the legality of the order and whether the Tribunal can injunct Parliament. The court order has expressed itself to a specific matter. What difficulty did your office have in communicating matters not affected by that court order?

The Minority Side knowing how the court system works and how long justice takes in this country, are being told to wait until these matters are resolved at whatever stage. We know the decision will come from the PPDT and maybe Sen. Dullo might go to the High Court or the Court of Appeal as is her right; and these matters take time. We

Mr. Speaker, Sir, my system never works, but my seat never moves.

We were not elected to come here and waste taxpayers’ money discussing little things as to who sits in which Committee and representing which side of the House; we were elected to come here to do oversight, discuss the budget and represent our people.

I appeal to the chief administrator of justice in this country, hon. Lady Justice Martha Koome to make sure that such kinds of issues are discharged expeditiously.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, you are not to blame. There are court orders against you. What kind of a Speaker would you be if you were to defy courts? You cannot be known for that.

Sen. Omogeni knows that tribunals have the same powers as those of courts. If the Deputy Speaker defies the Tribunal, then he has no respect for the Lower, High, Appeal and the Supreme Courts. Let us be angry, but allow the Deputy Speaker to do what he is doing. He has been served. He should observe the rule of the law.

I need the Senate Minority Leader to give me attention. Sen. Omogeni, if you have to quote the precedents of this House, do us a favour. You have quoted precedents of Sen. Murkomen, Sen. Susan Kihika and Sen. (Dr.) Irungu Kang’ata. If you must quote, do not quote precedents that were occasioned by the infamous “handshake” Government.

The precedent you can quote, Senate Minority Leader, is the one that took place in the “lower” House, where the same courts, the way they have done, stopped the vetting of Principal Secretaries. The President and the hon. Speaker stopped, a ruling was made and the matter was unlocked.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we invite you to use the precedent by Sen. Wetangula, the current Hon. Speaker of the National Assembly. Please, allow this matter to go the due process and then come back to us to give a ruling. We are with you and you are for us; we are for you; for the country.

Let there be no games played here. Let these things end quickly through the due process being respected instead of coming here, taking us round, walking out of the House; going to Kakamega over the weekend and singing to women. Let us finish it here.

cannot drown a fish in a pond. That is where we live. I am happy that the matter is before PPDT.

However, before we conclude that case, do not allow this House--- In our Constitution, this House has the powers of a High Court. In terms of the Judiciary, you are at the same level as a High Court. How can a Magistrate’s Court issue an order directing the High Court on what to do? These are the questions to ponder.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for that reason, let us not destroy this House. Give this House the dignity it has been given by those who came before us. Ensure that we are respected by all organs of Government and do the right thing. It does not matter how long it takes. You cannot impose leadership on the Minority Side.

Thank you. Sen. Cheptumo, proceed.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I am happy that our debate today is very sober. This is good because Kenyans are watching us.

I listened to your Communication carefully. It gave me the impression that you were ready to issue it before the House, but you were stopped by the court order.

Listening to the submissions by colleagues, I would like to refer this House to Article 2 of the Constitution. This Constitution is the supreme law of the Republic and binds all persons and State organs at both levels of Government.

Parliament, in my submission, is one of the State organs. Therefore, it is bound by this Constitution. I refer Members to Article 159 (1) of the Constitution on judicial authority. It says:

“Judicial authority is derived from the people and vests in, and shall be exercised by, the courts and tribunals established by or under this Constitution.” Article 159 (2) says: “In exercising judicial authority, the courts and tribunals shall be guided by the following principles—

have also come here as a student to learn. Therefore, I will also take this opportunity to teach the law that I know.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I hope that your children are watching. I will be saying a few things, and I hope that I can inspire them to be future senators of Nairobi.

First, I am happy that we have come to this juncture. I was imploring you last week to get this matter out of your office, so that we can pursue the dispute between us and one of our Members in the proper forum.

I agree with Sen. Dullo on the action that she has taken. The proper forum for resolution of disputes between political parties and their members, or political parties and political parties within a coalition, is the Political Parties Disputes Tribunal (PPDT) .

The Minority Side has been vindicated because we were telling the House last week that the Speaker has no role whatsoever in the disputes in the Minority Party. The Standing Orders require the Speaker to make a communication to the House upon receipt of this decision that has been made by the Minority Party, so that everyone is aware.

Secondly, jurisdiction is everything in law. Every single court and tribunal in this Republic has to derive jurisdiction from a specific provision; either of the Constitution or of an Act of Parliament. If the law does not give you jurisdiction, you cannot assume that jurisdiction by yourself.

The jurisdiction of the PPDT under Section 40 of the Political Parties Act is limited to the matters that I have alluded to; disputes among members of a party and a party, or a political party against another political party. That jurisdiction does not extend to a jurisdiction over disputes in this House. The Tribunal has no jurisdiction over the Senate.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, if you want to know that the people who went to the Tribunal in this particular matter are aware of that fact, the Speaker of the House is not a respondent in that matter. They are named as an interested party.

Thirdly, because of my nature as a fortuitous person, I have obtained a copy of that court order. A plain reading of the order has limited the matters before that Tribunal to the question of the seat of the Whip of the Minority Side. The question of the seat of the Deputy Whip is not a matter before the Tribunal and is not covered by that court order that you referred to.

The question should be if whether we can debate the legality of the order and whether the Tribunal can injunct Parliament. The court order has expressed itself to a specific matter. What difficulty did your office have in communicating matters not affected by that court order?

The Minority Side knowing how the court system works and how long justice takes in this country, are being told to wait until these matters are resolved at whatever stage. We know the decision will come from the PPDT and maybe Sen. Dullo might go to the High Court or the Court of Appeal as is her right; and these matters take time. We

cannot drown a fish in a pond. That is where we live. I am happy that the matter is before PPDT.

However, before we conclude that case, do not allow this House--- In our Constitution, this House has the powers of a High Court. In terms of the Judiciary, you are at the same level as a High Court. How can a Magistrate’s Court issue an order directing the High Court on what to do? These are the questions to ponder.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for that reason, let us not destroy this House. Give this House the dignity it has been given by those who came before us. Ensure that we are respected by all organs of Government and do the right thing. It does not matter how long it takes. You cannot impose leadership on the Minority Side.

Thank you. Sen. Cheptumo, proceed.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I am happy that our debate today is very sober. This is good because Kenyans are watching us.

I listened to your Communication carefully. It gave me the impression that you were ready to issue it before the House, but you were stopped by the court order.

Listening to the submissions by colleagues, I would like to refer this House to Article 2 of the Constitution. This Constitution is the supreme law of the Republic and binds all persons and State organs at both levels of Government.

Parliament, in my submission, is one of the State organs. Therefore, it is bound by this Constitution. I refer Members to Article 159 (1) of the Constitution on judicial authority. It says:

“Judicial authority is derived from the people and vests in, and shall be exercised by, the courts and tribunals established by or under this Constitution.” Article 159 (2) says: “In exercising judicial authority, the courts and tribunals shall be guided by the following principles—

I am surprised at my senior brother, Sen. Madzayo. There was no ruling that came from that Chair. The then Speaker, Hon. Lusaka, just noted the changes. He did not even give a ruling.

I remember the former Senator of Elgeyo-Marakwet County, who is currently a Cabinet Secretary (CS), requested for the ruling, up to the last, when we were leaving the House before going for the general elections.

This habit of disobeying court orders was a symptom and behaviour of the “handshake” Government, where the Minority side thrived. They did not obey any court orders. In as much as we appreciate the distinction of separation of powers, another arm of Government should not disobey court orders.

Thank you, Sen. Cherarkey. Proceed, Sen. M. Kajwang’. Use your three minutes carefully.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, if you carefully read Standing Order No.23, which I have read up to the end, we are engaged in what Shakespeare would call, “too much ado about nothing.”

Once you receive communication of changes from the Minority, the Standing Orders do not require you to do anything. All you are required to do, is to receive. I have read Standing Order No.23.

I have heard the Chairperson of Committee on Justice, Legal Affairs and Human Rights Committee say there is an element of communication. It is not there. There is no communication. Probably, communication could be for peculiar reasons.

We acknowledge that the current Whip has her staff, current benefits and an office. Therefore, there has to be order in the manner which transition happens.

I believe the Minority side must respect and observe that order because the people working for the current Whip can easily work for the next Whip. The office and benefits the current Whip is enjoying must be dealt with in a manner that does not leave her feeling like she is being crucified by this House.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we have a defacto and dejure Whip on this side. You can be legal, but illegitimate.

That is why the Senate Majority Leader got it wrong, on our weekend rallies. We are saying yes, Hon. William Ruto is the legitimate President, but he is illegitimate in our eyes. The matter of legitimacy was dealt with at the Supreme Court. The matter of illegitimacy is upon us. You can have a legal, but illegitimate child.

Hon. Senators, I want to give another round of few minutes to two more speakers from each side. They will each have three minutes. We are almost in the second hour.

Proceed, Sen. Cherarkey.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I have been listening keenly. As a House, it looks like we are going to a full circle. This is because some of us were subjected to similar issues during the previous session. Nonetheless, I want to make a few points.

One, the wordings of Article 3 of the Constitution states, “defence of this Constitution.” You have an obligation, as the Speaker and a House, to defend the Constitution.

Every matter that comes to the House is considered on a case by case. Standing Order No.1 sets the precedence and traditions of Parliament. Therefore, you must consider Article 10 on national values and principles of good governance. The rule of law forms the biggest basis of value.

Today, the Minority side is trying to lecture us about disobeying the rule of law. It has accused the Majority side and Government of disobeying the law.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I remember when our brothers were de-whipped. Personally, I was removed during a press conference. So, mine was worse. At least, for others, the Communication came to the Floor of the House.

I beg your pardon, Sen. Ogola what did you say?

I said that I am adding my voice to a discourse that has been before his House for the last four sittings; a discourse that was initiated by the Minority side, but largely now of interest to the Majority side.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, this is not a legal matter. It is a political matter, clothed as a legal matter. We are behaving, not unlike many county assemblies, which in the last 10 years have built a strong precedence in removal of Speakers, Deputy Speakers and Leaders of the Houses.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have seen this in Homa Bay County Assembly. In the last term, they changed the Speaker four times, Leaders of Majority and Minority almost five times. Every time, they hid under legal terms like that which was used in your Communication.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, if you carefully read Standing Order No.23, which I have read up to the end, we are engaged in what Shakespeare would call, “too much ado about nothing.”

Once you receive communication of changes from the Minority, the Standing Orders do not require you to do anything. All you are required to do, is to receive. I have read Standing Order No.23.

I have heard the Chairperson of Committee on Justice, Legal Affairs and Human Rights Committee say there is an element of communication. It is not there. There is no communication. Probably, communication could be for peculiar reasons.

We acknowledge that the current Whip has her staff, current benefits and an office. Therefore, there has to be order in the manner which transition happens.

I believe the Minority side must respect and observe that order because the people working for the current Whip can easily work for the next Whip. The office and benefits the current Whip is enjoying must be dealt with in a manner that does not leave her feeling like she is being crucified by this House.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we have a defacto and dejure Whip on this side. You can be legal, but illegitimate.

That is why the Senate Majority Leader got it wrong, on our weekend rallies. We are saying yes, Hon. William Ruto is the legitimate President, but he is illegitimate in our eyes. The matter of legitimacy was dealt with at the Supreme Court. The matter of illegitimacy is upon us. You can have a legal, but illegitimate child.

Okay. Proceed, Sen. Mungatana.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I thank you for giving me an opportunity to share my thoughts on this matter.

I am very worried, that we as a Senate, seem to be ploughing back our powers, surrendering them to the Judiciary. In the history of development of Parliaments, we have fought a long way and history can bear us.

The king in France used to say, “l’Etat c’est moi”. I am the state. He used to be the personification of Parliament, Judiciary and Executive.

When the philosophers came and provided for separation of power, the parliamentarians continued to struggle to get their space. I want us, as a House, to stand very firmly and protect our space, not just as a Senate, but also on behalf of the other side.

I am reading Article 117 of the Constitution. It gives us an expanded power of debate within this House. This House has unfettered power to provide its proceedings with complete freedom. Total freedom of interference from the Judiciary and Executive. We must fight for that space.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I invite you to look at Section 12 of the National Assembly

Act which interprets Article 117 by further providing that no proceedings from the courts can stop what is happening in this House. We must fight for our space.

Samahani, kuna ombi limefika hapa la dharura kutoka Sen. Crystal Asige.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I am generally a very sensible-thinking human being. My life has taught me the things that are important and the ones that can fall to the side. I have not said a word in the last four sittings because I have not been given an opportunity to prosecute the issues that matter to the constituents that I am here to represent. Persons with Disabilities (PWD) are not getting their voices heard because we have been sat here for days over an issue that the Standing Orders say is quite a simple matter.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, you start every session with a prayer. I take that prayer very seriously as I am sure the rest of us do, to look at matters in front of us fairly because the Lord himself has been pleased to put us here to represent Kenyans. How I wish that you would have given the Communication as per the Standing Orders last week, as quickly as you have done today on the Political Parties Dispute Tribunal (PPDT) .

The word ‘divorce’ has been used severally by the Majority side. This seems like an analogy that I and we all have heard many times which is that; there is a divorce dispute. A couple has decided that for whatever reasons they are going to move on, but the neighbour who was not really involved in the matter has unfortunately been thrown into the issue.

Now the neighbour is involved in all that is ensuing afterwards. It seems to me that it was a simple matter of Communication that has now turned into burning the entire House down for no---

Sen. Crystal Asige you have one more minute kindly wind up.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. It was a simple Communication that has now burned the House down. We are the “upper” House while the National Assembly is the “lower” House. However, it seems that the National Assembly is the lower House with an upper hand because of issues such as this that we are prosecuting that have really no consequence to the average Kenyan.

I beg that you do not let this issue carry on any other further because there are matters that are of much importance to Kenyans.

As we discuss this issue, I want to remind this House of very serious issues that Kenyans have interest on that we should be discussing. There is the hot issue of the plight of Early Childhood Development Education (ECDE) teachers in this country. This House should be taking this whole afternoon and all this time we have been using to discuss the political issue to solve the challenge of the ECDE teachers that have a struggle with our governors and the Salaries and Remuneration Commission (SRC).

Kenyans are struggling with a number of issues. Counties have not received their money. I was in some conversation where some of the counties got their last disbursement in October. That should be an important issue that should be discussed by the Senate. I need to mention the issue of drought. Forests are burning. Of concern is the grade six pupils in secondary school and while grade eight is in primary school yet there are no teachers to teach.

As we struggle with the issues of political parties and trying to get a Member to have their political right in the way they want, I remind you that the same Member is recorded here having said that the Minority side should take their leadership.

Mr. temporary Speaker, sir, ---

Thank you. Your time is up. Proceed, Sen. Kinyua.

Asante, Bw. Naibu Spika. Kwanza nataka kumweleza Kiongozi wa Walio Wachache kwamba “mhini na mhiniwa njia yao ni moja”. Nimeketi na kusikiza kwa makini na jambo linalonavutia pande zote mbili ni amri ya mahakama. Mahakama ikitoa amri yake, ni vizuri sisi sote tuiheshimu na kuifuata. Tukiwa watu wasiofuata na kuheshimu amri ya korti ambayo imetolewa vizuri---

Bw. Naibu Spika ulichofanya kizuri ni kutosema chochote. Ulitoa amri ya korti. Seneta wa Kaunti ya Nairobi amesema na kutaja Seneta wa Kaunti ya Nyamira kuwa wao ni watu waliobobea katika mambo ya kufuatilia mahakama. Ni lipi linaolowasumbua kwa sababu kulingana na ujumbe uliotoka katika mahakama umesema kuwa tarehe 28, Machi watu watakusanyika pale na uamuzi dhabiti utatolewa.

Hawa wote ni mawakili waliosema; Sen. Omogeni, Senior Counsel na Kiongozi wa Walio Wachahce wapo pale vile vile. Ni lipi hili ambalo ni zito zaidi linalofanya waende mahakamani na kutoa ushahidi badala ya kuja hapa na kuongea. Kulingana na kanuni zetu za Seneti Spika hana macho wala masikio.

Bw. Naibu Spika umeleta ujumbe kutoka kortini na hawa ndugu zangu ambao ni mawakili - naona Seneta wa kutoka Kaunti ya Makueni akitingiza kipaza sauti chake - wanapaswa kwenda mahali panapofaa. Wanafaa waende mahakamani na wayatetee mambo wanayosema. Ujumbe huo utaletewa kama ulivyoletwa hapa na utausoma. Ikiwa huo ujumbe utasema vile wanavyotaka kuwa kiranja wanayetaka aweze kuwepo, wewe hauna budi kufanya hivyo.

Ni Jambo la kuudhi sana katika nchi hii ikiwa tutakuwa hatufuati amri za mahakama. Nimeketi katika Bunge hili kutoka muhula uliopita na nikasikia Sen. Orengo

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the only matter which has not been addressed is sub judice. Once a matter is already live here, then immediately the courts respect that and they do not interfere with the matter. Once a matter is already live in court, then the Senate cannot deal with it.

These proceedings were prosecuted yesterday and it is a matter of public notoriety even to the Tribunal that the matters were already live in the Senate. So, we will deal with this matter in court on 28th February. It is a matter of preliminary objection there in court. I am sure that the suit will be disposed of the same day.

I thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Thank you, Senator of Makueni. That will actually relieve this Chair from all this agony. If you are in my shoes, you must know what I am carrying on my shoulders.

I can see today Sen. Sifuna is really sympathetic to me.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I am generally a very sensible-thinking human being. My life has taught me the things that are important and the ones that can fall to the side. I have not said a word in the last four sittings because I have not been given an opportunity to prosecute the issues that matter to the constituents that I am here to represent. Persons with Disabilities (PWD) are not getting their voices heard because we have been sat here for days over an issue that the Standing Orders say is quite a simple matter.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, you start every session with a prayer. I take that prayer very seriously as I am sure the rest of us do, to look at matters in front of us fairly because the Lord himself has been pleased to put us here to represent Kenyans. How I wish that you would have given the Communication as per the Standing Orders last week, as quickly as you have done today on the Political Parties Dispute Tribunal (PPDT) .

The word ‘divorce’ has been used severally by the Majority side. This seems like an analogy that I and we all have heard many times which is that; there is a divorce dispute. A couple has decided that for whatever reasons they are going to move on, but the neighbour who was not really involved in the matter has unfortunately been thrown into the issue.

Now the neighbour is involved in all that is ensuing afterwards. It seems to me that it was a simple matter of Communication that has now turned into burning the entire House down for no---

Sen. Crystal Asige you have one more minute kindly wind up.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. It was a simple Communication that has now burned the House down. We are the “upper” House while the National Assembly is the “lower” House. However, it seems that the National Assembly is the lower House with an upper hand because of issues such as this that we are prosecuting that have really no consequence to the average Kenyan.

I beg that you do not let this issue carry on any other further because there are matters that are of much importance to Kenyans.

They do not understand what is going on in this House. Let me be honest. We all know that. I pray that you will make the Communication, especially as Sen. Sifuna has said on the position Deputy Minority Whip if that has not been put in the PPDT.

(Sen. Crystal Asige’s Microphone was switched off)

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am sorry. I am coming at the tail end of the debate. However, you have been very patient with us today and I commend you for that.

What we are discussing here is not legal or even in our Standing Orders. This is because the Standing Orders are very clear that once the political party has communicated, then the matter goes to the Speaker and he communicates the same. That is all.

However, the issue we are discussing here is more political than legal or even according to our Standing Orders. The political party which is Jubilee has clearly declared that they are supporting the Kenya Kwanza. Why should they stick to the side?

We are not going to be whipped by Jubilee because they have already decided to join the Kenya Kwanza. The reason is that Kenya Kwanza is poaching our Members from this House from this side

On a point of information, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Sen. Onyonka, who are you informing? Sen. Oburu Odinga?

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Senior, what is it again?

Sen. Catherine Mumma, are you trying to compete with the elder? That you are complaining that I have given him a minute?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I know that I should not be on the Floor when you are there, but gentlemen, relax. Take it easy. You are now in power. Power is transitory. Relax.

On a point of information, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Sen. Onyonka, who are you informing? Sen. Oburu Odinga?

No. today, I might lose on you again.

spoke off record)

No. You know I have been so lenient the whole of the afternoon and now you are taking me back again to the same thing we have

concluded.

spoke off record) So, who is the owner of the Court order? I did not draft the Court order. The same Court can clear him. You argue those issues in Court.

spoke off record) So who is making that judgment? Those are the issues you should do on Monday the 28th.

The court order is very clear and I am happy that Sen. Maanzo is very well- equipped with this information. He said that there are things you will do during the mention on Monday.

Next order. The Chairperson, Standing Committee on Education, do you have your Papers to lay?

Go to the Chairperson and kindly consult.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, just give me a minute. It is so important. I have been waiting, sitting here for the last three hours.

Sen. Onyonka, just a minute. I will give you a chance---

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I know that I should not be on the Floor when you are there, but gentlemen, relax. Take it easy. You are now in power. Power is transitory. Relax.

Order, Sen. Onyonka! Hon. Senators, I am making my second Communication.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we just want guidance on when the communication that is not covered by the court order will be made. That is all. We will go to the courts for the rest of the matters before the court. We have no problem.

No. today, I might lose on you again.

spoke off record)

No. You know I have been so lenient the whole of the afternoon and now you are taking me back again to the same thing we have

concluded.

spoke off record) So, who is the owner of the Court order? I did not draft the Court order. The same Court can clear him. You argue those issues in Court.

spoke off record) So who is making that judgment? Those are the issues you should do on Monday the 28th.

The court order is very clear and I am happy that Sen. Maanzo is very well- equipped with this information. He said that there are things you will do during the mention on Monday.

Next order. The Chairperson, Standing Committee on Education, do you have your Papers to lay?

Go to the Chairperson and kindly consult.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to lay the following Paper on the Table of the Senate today, the 21st of February, 2023.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is the Report of the Standing Committee on Education on its consideration of the County Vocational, Educational and Training Bill, 2022. (Senate Bill No.3 of 2022)

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

What is it, Sen. Sifuna?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we appreciate that the Chair has been very patient and allowed debate. The question we are asking is; what was the point of all those submissions? We only wanted your guidance on the question about the matters not covered by this court case. When will that communication be made?

Please, Senator, allow me to address the Deputy Speaker.

I am able to multitask. Proceed.

Proceed.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, should I proceed? I am asking, when will the pronouncement or the communication be made over the position that is not covered by the court case? The court order is before you and the case is specific to the question of the seat of the Minority Whip. It does not cover the seat of the Deputy Minority Whip. When can we have that communication?

Sen. Sifuna, the issue of “when” is what has caused this problem. If there is anything that has not been covered by the court order, I will look into the court order and then communicate.

However, for the when and how, leave it to my Office to communicate. You also know that I do not work in isolation. I work with a team of experts who run the House. We will go through the court order and advice.

Sen. Osotsi, I thought you should now be crafting a communication because you are an expert in this matter.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have had the benefit to look at the detailed orders issued by the court. In your Communication, you have somehow alluded to that court order being part of the documents guiding your decision this afternoon.

However, one important issue is that the detailed order seems to suggest that this House reviews the decision it has made in regard to the Senate Business Committee (SBC) . I do not know how that will be done because you already decided. We now have a properly constituted SBC.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, by admitting that court order to this House, what is the way forward? That is why Sen. Omogeni was requesting that that order be tabled before the House and we discuss it. This is because there are some fundamental issues in that order which are going to affect this House fundamentally.

Sen. Abdul Haji, proceed.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I have listened to the proceedings and the submissions by Members. I do not want to correct my elder who has spoken before me and stated that Jubilee Party has been poached and moved to Kenya Kwanza side. As a ranking Member of Jubilee Party, I make it very clear that we have not left the Azimio One Kenya Coalition Party.

Hon. Senators, I believe this issue is well placed where it should be. I will give Sen. Onyonka one minute to speak before we conclude on this matter.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I am beginning to be very discouraged being in this House because I hardly get an opportunity to speak when I have to. My seniority should give me precedent.

You.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise to give---

I believe the taxpayers sent us here to talk about these things.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise on Standing Order No. 2 on interpretation of the Standing Orders. Let us not act as if we just dropped out of school yesterday. We are guided by these Standing Orders. These Standing Orders define what a Whip is. What you are being invited to is by the Chair violating these Standing Orders. Standing Order on interpretation says-

“A party Whip” means a Senator designated by a parliamentary party as the party whip for the purposes of the transaction of business in the Senate and includes the Majority Whip and Minority party.’ In the interpretation, it further defines a parliamentary party. I shall read it- “Parliamentary party” means a party or a coalition of parties consisting of not less than ten Senators.”

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise under Standing Order No.190 on the Senate Business Committee and its role; No.17 on the Conduct of business during vacancy; No.18 on Presiding in the Senate; and No.19 on Presiding in Committees of the Whole.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, you have ruled that you shall communicate. I am surprised because my friends – including Sen. Osotsi and the Senate Minority Leader – are alleging that they have not seen a court order. However, if you were keen, Sen. Sifuna was waving a court order.

You used it when you are presenting yourself---

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, protect me so that I prosecute my point. This intellectual dishonesty is unfair. You have given a ruling; why are they challenging your authority and yet, they want to use your authority to prosecute their agenda? It is out of order.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, you do not sit alone in SBC. The membership of SBC includes the Speaker as the Chairperson, the Senate Majority Leader, the Senate Minority Leader, the Senate Majority Whip and the Senate Minority Whip. So, if there is any issue that needs to be tabled or prosecuted through the normal procedures, it should be through SBC where you preside over.

They should not make the country believe you make decisions or carry out business in this House as Sen. Kathuri; and not as the House of the Speaker which has SBC.

I do not want to say that the Chair is completely out of order. However, by violating these Standing Orders---

Who has violated the Standing Orders?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Chair, unfortunately, with all due respect, is violating the Standing Orders.

Sen. Onyonka, I gave guidance on the way forward. I want us to make progress.

Kindly, next order. Sen. Wamatinga, please proceed.

Next Order.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, with all due respect---

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise on Standing Order No. 2 on interpretation of the Standing Orders. Let us not act as if we just dropped out of school yesterday. We are guided by these Standing Orders. These Standing Orders define what a Whip is. What you are being invited to is by the Chair violating these Standing Orders. Standing Order on interpretation says-

“A party Whip” means a Senator designated by a parliamentary party as the party whip for the purposes of the transaction of business in the Senate and includes the Majority Whip and Minority party.’ In the interpretation, it further defines a parliamentary party. I shall read it- “Parliamentary party” means a party or a coalition of parties consisting of not less than ten Senators.”

So, what is out of order?

I do not want to say that the Chair is completely out of order. However, by violating these Standing Orders---

Who has violated the Standing Orders?

NOW THEREFORE the Senate resolves that: -

Thank you. Next Order.

I have clearly indicated that the Chair is violating the Standing Orders.

Next Order.

I thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I rise pursuant to Standing Order No. 53 (1) to seek a Statement from the Standing Committee on Education regarding Form One intake in the country.

In the Statement, the Committee should-

Sen. Wamatinga, please proceed.

Let us have all the Statements read. Keep your comments. We have two Statements from the Senator for Kisumu County, Sen. (Prof.) Tom Ojienda SC.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I have two Statements this afternoon. The first Statement is on disaster preparedness in Kisumu County.

Mr. Speaker Deputy Sir, I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.53 (1) to seek a Statement from the Standing Committee on National Security Defense and Foreign Relations regarding disaster management preparedness in Kisumu County.

In the Statement, the Committee should-

Thank you. Next Order.

We have several Statements. We will start with Sen. Wamatinga. That is if you still have some energy or you can wait for the next one.

I thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I rise pursuant to Standing Order No. 53 (1) to seek a Statement from the Standing Committee on Education regarding Form One intake in the country.

In the Statement, the Committee should-

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, I rise Pursuant to Standing Order No.53 (1) to seek a Statement from the Standing Committee on Devolution and Intergovernmental Relations on the acquisition and distribution of relief supplies by the County Government of Marsabit and neighbouring counties sourced by the Counties Development Fund.

In the Statement, the Committee should-

We have two more Statements.

Let us have all the Statements read. Keep your comments. We have two Statements from the Senator for Kisumu County, Sen. (Prof.) Tom Ojienda SC.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I have two Statements this afternoon. The first Statement is on disaster preparedness in Kisumu County.

Mr. Speaker Deputy Sir, I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.53 (1) to seek a Statement from the Standing Committee on National Security Defense and Foreign Relations regarding disaster management preparedness in Kisumu County.

In the Statement, the Committee should-

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, my second Statement is on the invasion of the Ahero rice fields by quelea birds in Kisumu County.

I rise Pursuant to Standing Order No.53 (1) to seek a Statement from the the Standing Committee on Agriculture, Livestock and Fisheries regarding the invasion of the Ahero rice fields by quelea birds in Kisumu County.

In the Statement, the Committee should-

Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, I rise Pursuant to Standing Order No.53 (1) to seek a Statement from the Standing Committee on Devolution and Intergovernmental Relations on the acquisition and distribution of relief supplies by the County Government of Marsabit and neighbouring counties sourced by the Counties Development Fund.

In the Statement, the Committee should-

Thank you, Sen. Chute. We have two other Statements from Sen. Murango.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I rise, pursuant to Standing Order No. 53 (1) to request for a Statement from the Standing Committee on Trade, Industrialization and Tourism on the ownership status and revival of Mwea Cotton Ginnery.

In the Statement, the Committee should-

Thank you. Sen. Githuku, proceed.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is not Peninah but Peris Tobiko. In the New Testament, Jesus Christ looked at children and said they belonged to the Kingdom of God. We cannot claim to be Christians or believers in anything if we do not look after our children. It means we do not value what God values.

Sen. Tobiko, do you have a Statement?

Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Proceed.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise, pursuant to Standing Order 52 (1) to make a Statement on an issue of general topical concern, namely: the unacceptable disciplinary measures meted against children by uncouth individuals.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, children are a blessing who bring so much joy to their parents. The community and, indeed, the nation as a whole also consider them an important asset. Further, Article 53 (1) (d) of the Constitution expressly provides that – Article 53 (1) (d) of the Constitution states that - “1. Every child has the right –

Kindly, let us go to the next Order.

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

What is it, Sen. Peris Tobiko?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is not Peninah but Peris Tobiko. In the New Testament, Jesus Christ looked at children and said they belonged to the Kingdom of God. We cannot claim to be Christians or believers in anything if we do not look after our children. It means we do not value what God values.

Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, I hear you. The Chairs have no obligation to report to the Floor of the House. However, it means that, for two months, your Statement has not been responded to by the relevant Ministry.

Thank you, Sen. Okiya Omtatah. We are limited by time. I want to give a chance to one more Senator. Sen. Cherarkey, you have done enough today. What you said earlier this afternoon is enough for the people of Nandi.

Let us give Sen. Mutinda this chance. Proceed.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I rise to support the Statement from our colleague, Sen. Tobiko. As a leader and a parent, I agree that the joy of our children is something godly and one we are proud of. Through social media, we have seen what is happening to our younger generation and it is a sad.

Sen. Cheptumo, whom do you want to inform? He is no longer on the Floor.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, what Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale is raising is a concern.

I thought it is good to just share that once a Member raises a question or a Statement, we take up the issues with the relevant ministry. When a written answer is obtained from the ministry, it is shared with the Member.

If there are issues that are not sufficiently responded to in the Statement, then we still do a further inquiry from the department. That is what happens in this House.

It is interesting that Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale has not got a Statement from the relevant Committee two months after he raised the question. The problem here is the procedure we used to inform Members on the responses from the ministries. It is not how we used to do in the other House as you recall. You and I were Committee Chairs and we used to read those Statements before the Plenary. That is the procedure we have right now.

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

What is it, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I request you because you have that power, when you look at a Statement and see that it has some urgency, give it some timeline. Tell the Chair to give the answer within a specific timeline, so that we can have some Statements answered or reported back to the House with immediate effect.

I am constrained with time. I give Sen. Orwoba one minute.

What is your point of order, Sen. Cherarkey?

Sen. Cheptumo, whom do you want to inform? He is no longer on the Floor.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, what Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale is raising is a concern.

I thought it is good to just share that once a Member raises a question or a Statement, we take up the issues with the relevant ministry. When a written answer is obtained from the ministry, it is shared with the Member.

If there are issues that are not sufficiently responded to in the Statement, then we still do a further inquiry from the department. That is what happens in this House.

It is interesting that Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale has not got a Statement from the relevant Committee two months after he raised the question. The problem here is the procedure we used to inform Members on the responses from the ministries. It is not how we used to do in the other House as you recall. You and I were Committee Chairs and we used to read those Statements before the Plenary. That is the procedure we have right now.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I am winding up. The report must be tabled.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I do not purport to speak on behalf of the other chairs because you are the Chair of Chairs.

All I want to tell the Senator for Kakamega County who raised that issue, is that the President had seen this problem. That is why he proposed that we should be having CSs on the Floor of this House so that they answer questions with the speed that is required.

Before pointing at any other Chairman, in my Committee, Senators who have requested for Statements have been invited to appear before our Committee and see the responses before we table them in the House. It is better for the Senate to sit, even without waiting for the National Assembly and come up with the right procedures to be inviting CSs to answer those questions.

That is why I had tried to catch your eye. For example, we have a Statement that was raised by the Senator for Embu County, on the issue of delocalization of teachers. When I tried to ask for the same Statement with a tweak or a little bit of a difference, I was told I could not raise such a Statement yet it is in regard to the teachers working in other counties but come from Kiambu County.

My teachers, all the way from Mt. Kenya, are suffering in Narok. However, we cannot ask that Statement because somebody raised it two weeks or two days ago yet it has not been responded to here.

On that issue of Statements, I hear your interjection. From the reading of Standing Order 53 (3) (b) , it is clear that a Statement may be prepared and tabled on that matter. It would be good practice that Chairpersons of Committees ensure that they conclude on Statements that are raised against the Committees and they are encourage to table them.

Although the wording of the Standing Order is that a Committee may prepare and table a report on that matter, ‘may’ then means it is almost discretionary. However, the good practice would be that the Committees or the Chairpersons of the Committees table a report that issues are responded to and issues are given closure.

I believe that should be the final intervention on that matter. Next Order. There is a point of order by Sen. Munyi Mundigi. Make it very short. Sen.

I am constrained with time. I give Sen. Orwoba one minute.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I am glad Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale has raised this. It is an issue I have been dealing with personally. I am not a Chair. I was a Vice-Chair but I was de-whipped because of literally pushing for the efficiency of the business of a Committee.

I personally brought several Statements to the Floor of the House concerning issues on Safaricom registration and protection of Kenyans’ data.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, being in the Committee as a Vice Chair, I could see the bureaucracy that was being practiced not necessarily by the Chair but there was a lot of dynamics. The efficiency of that Committee---

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, allow me. Do not cut me off, I have seen you. This is a very serious matter. Therefore, if we are not going to give timelines, then you can imagine the Statement that I raised on the registration of SIM Cards last year has not been dealt with.

What is your point of order, Sen. Cherarkey?

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I note the change on the Chair. My congratulations, I can see you are wearing our party colors.

Madam Temporary Speaker, when you look at the Secretariat, and I need guidance on this; Standing Order No.52 and 53 (3) (b) , the Speaker may allow comments in relation to the Statement in not more than 15 minutes. I am saying this being aware that we are past the Statement hour.

Kenyans and everybody should know that when we give comments or when we ride on Statements of our colleagues, it is provided under the Standing Orders.

Madam Temporary Speaker, Standing Order No. 53 (3) (b) , I have had the benefit of chairing a committee and it is known in the annals of history of this House, I was ranked the best. I was not only the youngest but the best then.

Standing Order No. 53 (3) (b) , States that – The Committee may invite the Senator who requested the Statement, the relevant Cabinet Secretary or any other person the Committee may consider necessary during deliberations on the Statement and may prepare and Table a report on the matter. We need to be fair, this is our Standing Orders. The Standing Order No. 1, talks about the precedent, the tradition, the rule of law and the tradition of the Parliament that has been set. It states – after the deliberations, the report must be tabled.

Madam Temporary Speaker, what we are treated to is theatre of the absurd. The Chairpersons of these Committees are purported Cabinet Secretaries (CSs) . If they are having a problem in accessing CSs, because I am told some CSs and Principal Secretaries (PSs) might not be picking calls yet the President is picking our calls, then they should say it.

Last year, as Sen. Orwoba has said, I requested a Statement on the Tokyo Scandal of our athletes, no one has responded up to today. If the Chairpersons are having problems, they should be able to speak to the Majority side and the Majority leadership including the Majority Whip.

As we wait for the Constitution to be amended for CSs and PSs to sit here, we must be efficient and effective because we are using the resources from the Exchequer.

Finally, Standing Order 53 (4) states- The Speaker may allow the Senator who made the request for a Statement under paragraph (1) or any other Senator to make comments or observations in relation to the report tabled under paragraph (3) (b) , for not more than twenty minutes. I can be invited to the Committee of Labour and Social Welfare where I can go, sit and deliberate but maybe other Senators are waiting for the report to be tabled to give their comments and transmit for implementation. My request on this matter---

Please, wind up Sen. Cherarkey.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I am winding up. The report must be tabled.

As a friend of the Committee, I do not have powers to sign the report or vote on the report because I am not a Member of the Committee. So, where do I get my recourse? I get my recourse on the Floor of the House among other colleagues.

I thank you.

On that issue of Statements, I hear your interjection. From the reading of Standing Order 53 (3) (b) , it is clear that a Statement may be prepared and tabled on that matter. It would be good practice that Chairpersons of Committees ensure that they conclude on Statements that are raised against the Committees and they are encourage to table them.

Although the wording of the Standing Order is that a Committee may prepare and table a report on that matter, ‘may’ then means it is almost discretionary. However, the good practice would be that the Committees or the Chairpersons of the Committees table a report that issues are responded to and issues are given closure.

I believe that should be the final intervention on that matter. Next Order. There is a point of order by Sen. Munyi Mundigi. Make it very short. Sen.

What is your point of order?

Clerk, can you confirm whether we have quorum in the House?

On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker.

Senator, he is moving a Motion.

What is out of order?

Not when he is moving a Motion. Let him finish moving the Motion and then you will raise your point of order.

Thank you.

Lastly, the National Treasury should comply with the schedule as indicated to make sure that within the remaining few months of the financial year, the two tranches, as promised, should also be realized.

There is also need for the Senate and county assemblies to tighten oversight on these funds. The Committee recommends the following-

On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker.

That is the musical way of saying etcetera; and many others.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I did not want to interrupt my good friend, Sen. Ali Roba. However, as you know, this is a House of rules.

I rise on Standing Order No. 41. When I look around, we do not have quorum to transact business in this House. Standing Order No. 41, on quorum during proceeding of the Senate states-

“ (1) If at any time in the course of the proceedings of the Senate a Senator objects that there is not a quorum present, the Speaker or the Chairperson shall count the Senators present in the Senate or the Committee as the case may be.

Clerk, can you confirm whether we have quorum in the House?

I authorize the Division Bell to be rung for 10 minutes.

We now have quorum. Proceed, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I rise to second this Motion as moved by the Chair of the Committee. Before I second this Motion, one of the milestones of the last session was when we passed the Bill for additional allocation of revenue. I was pleased that during the recess to see His Excellency the President ascent it to law; something that is unprecedented. The Office of the Clerk will tell you that not many parliaments have been able to make law in the first session but we did.

I, therefore, congratulate the President and all his colleagues the Members of Parliament (MP) , the office of the Clerk and everybody else who made this industry to come to fruition. Why should I commend this? It is because this law has paved way for better delivery of health services across the 47 Counties. I am so glad that my County of Kakamega - thanks to this Bill - was able to access in excess of Kshs982 million. I congratulate the Governor of Kakamega County because I have seen that he has been moving around the sub counties trying to give out an additional supply of drugs.

I urge him to give priority out of this particular vote. He should avoid the temptation of channeling this money to recurrent expenditure. He should ensure that this money is purely for development within the health sector. Allow me to quote in Kiswahili. Waswahili husema mgema akisifiwa pombe hulitia maji. Having congratulated the governor, he might be thinking he is doing very well on this particular allocation. I beg to differ. I would like him to desist from the temptation to give money

favoring certain sub counties at the expense of others. We are a huge County with a population of 2.5 million people; 12 sub counties, 60 wards and everybody is in dire need of good health.

Therefore, he should play the principal of equity to make sure that this money is felt in every corner of Kakamega County.

In moving this Motion, the chairperson has spoken to the issue of disbursement schedule. Colleague Senators, may I remind you - and I think you know - that we have the 15th day of the month rule. It was intended by the second Senate to ensure that on the 15th day of the month, the National Government should have deposited money in the account of every county. This is the famous County Revenue Fund.

I appeal to my colleagues, let all of us 47 plus all our delegations ensure that we are in constant communication with our governors to be assuring us on the 16th day that the 15th day of the month rule has been respected by the National Government; failing which we convene in this House and put pressure on the National Treasury to ensure that this money goes to the County Revenue Accounts. Indeed, this is what we are there for because under Article 96 of the Constitution, we are expected to protect the interest of the counties and their county governments.

A message to the governors: Governors must resist the temptations to start new projects. It is there. I do not want to cast aspersions on all governors, but there are a few unscrupulous governors who rushed to start new projects so that they can enter into little arrangements with the companies and individuals from whom they are procuring these services for personal gain. I want to appeal to them to complete stalled projects and ensure that all ongoing projects do not get stalled again.

Madam Temporary Speaker, you are a senior lawyer in this country and you know the principal in law of perpetual succession of Government. The principal of perpetual succession of Government demands that succeeding governments ensure that the projects they are succeeding are continued to their completion.

It is painful that when you go to a great county such as Kakamega which enjoys an annual budget in excess of Kshs15 billion, you find that over a period of 10 years of devolution during which the governor handled in excess of Kshs200 billion because there is the donor funding aspect that normally comes and the additional funds they have been getting.

Over a period of 10 years the governor handled over Kshs200 billion and what is on the ground? Bukhungu Stadium has stalled. The Kakamega Teaching and Referral Hospital has also stalled. Shamakhubu Hospital in Shinyalu Sub County has stalled. Tumbeni Milk and Dairy project in Malava Constituency has stalled.

Khayega Market in Shinyalu Constituency, Malinya Market in Ikolomani Constituency, Nambacha Market in Navakholo Constitueny, Navakholo Market in Navakholo Constituency, eiyeyeyeiyee, eiyeyeyeiyee. They have all stalled despite Kshs.200 billion.

Committee on Public Accounts of the Senate, we shall not be very kind to those people

That is the musical way of saying etcetera; and many others.

That is a new one.

Madam Temporary Speaker, when we have a situation like what we are facing in the country right now, it calls for posterity measures, prudent spending and projects to be prioritised. We expect all Governors to be careful in expending of this money, to remember that we will pay very expensively for these loans, and to know that the people are very needy.

Now, children are not even going to school in our counties because they are not energetic enough. There is neither food at home nor at school. Over the weekend, I had parents coming to my home saying they are not sending their kids to school because if there was food in school, they would go. However, they would rather stay with them at home. Not that there is food at home but because there is no choice.

For every project the governors will put this money into, there must be priority needs. Water is a crucial issue right now in our counties in this time when boreholes are running dry. Drought mitigation measures including relief food, both in schools and to the communities are the things we expect the Governors to address as a matter of priority.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I rise to support and also to urge governors to be careful in the spending of this money and for the national Government to be prompt in disbursement of the same funds. The Committee on Devolution and Intergovernmental Relations, has visited a number of counties. We realised that sometimes, we blame the Governors and the County Executives but the problem lies with the disbursement from National Treasury. The county governments are not receiving this money on time so governors are put in very awkward situations. We will also call upon National Treasury to have prompt release of these funds to the counties so that it can benefit the people.

This brings me to another issue of the tug of war going on between the County Assemblies and the governors. It is not so much on delivery of services. You find county assemblies and governors are still stuck in the general elections. By now, Kenyans should move on because elections were done and finished.

At the national level, we do not understand what our good colleagues in the Minority side are still fighting and being restless about; the Azimio rallies that are going on that we do not understand when the country is in dire need. When the country is facing a situation even those they are calling upon to come for these rallies can barely come because people cannot even get enough food leave alone money for transport to follow the party leaders to Machakos County and every other place.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I urge the governors to concentrate on the work that they were given. They were elected.

They were elected. So, let them concentrate on the work that they were given. Let them work with the national Government that is duly elected. Let them work with the President of the Republic of Kenya. Let us move as a county and prioritize the needs of our people who at the moment are facing very difficult situations.

I urge our counties to make sure that schools are given priority. For example, the Early Childhood Development Education (ECDE) programmes.

You have seen the most unfortunate situation of the ECDE teachers. The other day, the Salaries and Remuneration Commission (SRC) said that they will be paid around

Second the Motion

Sorry, I was the seconder. You know Madam Temporary Speaker; I was confused by my daughter here. Where has she gone? She told me that she was going to second then I support.

I strongly second the Motion. Thank you, Sen. Mungatana. That is why I always love to know that you always listen to me.

Thank you, Senator. Hon. Senators, I propose the question.

I call upon Senators to now make contributions to the Motion. I begin with Sen. Okenyuri. Is she there? Sen. Mungatana, you may proceed.

I thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I support this Motion. I have listened carefully to the Mover of this Motion, Sen. Ali Roba; the Chairperson of this Committee.

I record my thanks to the industry and the effort they put in as a Committee to make sure that this Report is presented in good time so that the disbursement can be done timely.

I also pay my respect to my honourable colleague who seconded this Motion, the one and only Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale. He raised many relevant issues.

I note that in passing this Motion, there is Kshs163 million that is a conditional grant on the supplement of the construction of county headquarters which is the first bit.

Ahsante Bi. Spika wa Muda kwa fursa hii ambayo umenipa kuchangia hususan mada ya kuangazia pesa zinazokwenda mashinani.

Tunapopiga kurunzi mashinani, kuna kaunti ambazo kwa sasa zimeshindwa kuwapa wakulima pembejeo na mbegu za ukulima kwa sababu fedha hazipo. Hizi pesa zitakapoachiliwa, ninatumai ya kwamba wakulima watapewa nafasi bora, wanawake na mayatima ili waweze kujipanga katika musimu huu wa upanzi.

Vilevile, Serikali imetoa mufumo mpya wa kutoka kidato cha saba, cha nane hadi shule za upili. Hivi kwamba inahitajika miundo mbinu ambayo watoto wataweza kupata madarasa, madawati na vitabu. Vyote hivi vinahitaji pesa ili yote yawezekane.

Committee on Public Accounts of the Senate, we shall not be very kind to those people

Katika sekta ya kilimo, kuna viwango mbalimbali ambazo serikali imeweka pesa. Lakini ndani ya serikali kuna kupe ambazo hujificha katika miradi hii na kufuja pesa za wakulima.

Ningependa kuwarai mawaziri wa kilimo na serikali za kaunti kwamba sisi kama Bunge la Seneti tutamulika hawa watu na “kuwapuliza doom” kuhakikisha kwamba pesa za Kaunti zinafanya kazi kwa mujibu wa sheria.

Pesa hizi zitakapofika nikuhakikisha kuna mstakabadhi mwema kati yetu, magavana na serikali ya Kitaifa. Sitarajii kwamba watakapopata pesa wakose kulipa pesa ambazo zinaenda kwa halmashauri ya afya, halmashauri ya kijamii (NSSF), na vile kulipa ushuru. Katika vitabu vya hesabu tumeona wafanyikazi wa serikali wanalipwa mishahara lakini pesa zitakazo lipa ushuru katika serikali ama kugharamia matibabu katika sekta ya afya hazitumwi katika National Hospital Insurance Fund (NHIF). Hizi pesa zitakapofikia wafanyikazi, wapewe haki yao kwa kulipa ushuru, NHIF na National Social Security Fund (NSSF), haya madeni yaondolewe.

Kuna wanakandarasi ambao kwa muda mrefu pesa zao hazijalipwa. Haiwezekani tuwe tunawapa pesa kila uchao lakini hawalipi madeni ya wafanyikazi na wanakandarasi. Tuhakikishe wale wachapa kazi wa mashinani walipwe pesa zao, wale ambao wako katika ratiba ya mwaka 2023/2024 wapewe pesa zao, ili kwa pamoja tusonge mbele na tuimarishe nchi yetu ya Kenya.

Asante sana.

Thank you, Senator. We will now have Sen. Cherarkey contributing to this Motion.

Madam Temporary Speaker, when we have a situation like what we are facing in the country right now, it calls for posterity measures, prudent spending and projects to be prioritised. We expect all Governors to be careful in expending of this money, to remember that we will pay very expensively for these loans, and to know that the people are very needy.

Now, children are not even going to school in our counties because they are not energetic enough. There is neither food at home nor at school. Over the weekend, I had parents coming to my home saying they are not sending their kids to school because if there was food in school, they would go. However, they would rather stay with them at home. Not that there is food at home but because there is no choice.

For every project the governors will put this money into, there must be priority needs. Water is a crucial issue right now in our counties in this time when boreholes are running dry. Drought mitigation measures including relief food, both in schools and to the communities are the things we expect the Governors to address as a matter of priority.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I rise to support and also to urge governors to be careful in the spending of this money and for the national Government to be prompt in disbursement of the same funds. The Committee on Devolution and Intergovernmental Relations, has visited a number of counties. We realised that sometimes, we blame the Governors and the County Executives but the problem lies with the disbursement from National Treasury. The county governments are not receiving this money on time so governors are put in very awkward situations. We will also call upon National Treasury to have prompt release of these funds to the counties so that it can benefit the people.

This brings me to another issue of the tug of war going on between the County Assemblies and the governors. It is not so much on delivery of services. You find county assemblies and governors are still stuck in the general elections. By now, Kenyans should move on because elections were done and finished.

At the national level, we do not understand what our good colleagues in the Minority side are still fighting and being restless about; the Azimio rallies that are going on that we do not understand when the country is in dire need. When the country is facing a situation even those they are calling upon to come for these rallies can barely come because people cannot even get enough food leave alone money for transport to follow the party leaders to Machakos County and every other place.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I urge the governors to concentrate on the work that they were given. They were elected.

They were elected. So, let them concentrate on the work that they were given. Let them work with the national Government that is duly elected. Let them work with the President of the Republic of Kenya. Let us move as a county and prioritize the needs of our people who at the moment are facing very difficult situations.

I urge our counties to make sure that schools are given priority. For example, the Early Childhood Development Education (ECDE) programmes.

You have seen the most unfortunate situation of the ECDE teachers. The other day, the Salaries and Remuneration Commission (SRC) said that they will be paid around

eight thousand, ten thousand and maximum fifteen thousand which is really on the lower side.

I am not encouraging this money to be used for recurrent expenditure but governors should also take care of their staff, so that we do not have a situation where by the ECDE teachers cannot deliver.

I encourage governors to concentrate on development and situations that are facing most of our counties right now.

I thank you, madam Temporary Speaker. I support.

I once investigated this medical equipment with the former Chairperson of Health, the former Senator for Trans Nzoia. We found it to be an automatic rip-off. Counties then were leasing syringes. Can a syringe be leased? They were leasing gloves and bedsheets. This was an outright rip-off.

Senator Ali Roba as a former governor knows that. I know he is now comfortable if I tell him about this. The last time I tried saying this, I was given a thorough engagement in the House. He knows that this is an outright rip-off. I expected him as the current Chair to demand and not fear.

I do not know whether this is in the Quran but I am a Christian. The Bible says, “fear not.” They should be told off during budget hearing that there will be no longer medical equipment supplies. Let the counties be given for needs assessment basis. If they want to buy kidney transplant machines or any other machines, then are free buy but they should not lease syringes and gloves.

Madam Temporary Speaker, those contracts were skewed and impacted our oversight, transparency and accountability.

The issue of accountability is not negotiable and the governors should be told as much. When governors demand for additional money, they make a lot of noise shouting at us. I heard the Deputy President tell governors that there would be no additional allocation even if the governors wanted to whip the Government. He said it is because the economy is not doing well. I agree.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I want governors to use the same energy to account for money the way they are demanding for more. It is paining because the work of oversight is that of a mortician. We are doing post-mortem on a dead body. We are looking after the facts. For example, when looking at the audit queries of Kakamega County, we question how much was consumed by Bukhungu Stadium, who the contractor was and the scope of works. We are just morticians operating somebody already dead.

Therefore, governors have no option. I am not afraid to say that in accountability issues, the soft under belly is the Ethics and Anti-Corruption Commission (EACC). This body is part and parcel of allegations of corruption within governors. When serious whistle blowers report these issues to EACC under the Witness Protection Act, the rogue EACC officers see the governor, show him the evidence and they also “eat”.

I am not talking about the whistle blowers that we are seeing in the Azimio Coalition rallies. You can see the Minority Side has run away because they are using fake whistle blowers.

That is why when you go to mashinani, wananchi will tell you the issue has been reported to EACC, but no action has been taken. The EACC only goes for omena and arrests clerks instead of going for mbuta or the big fish. That is where the challenge of accountability lies. I know you will ask why our Committee tables very nice reports with serious recommendations, having been facilitated by the secretariat.

However, there is no implementation mechanism after tabling. Instead of the Directorate of Criminal Investigations (DCI), EACC, Controller of Budget (CoB) or the Auditor General (AG)--- Article 225 of the Constitution demands that a county that has

I thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I also want to support this Report by the able Chairperson Capt. Sen. Ali Roba.

I have had a look at my county and we are beneficiaries of the same. However, I want to give a general call for action from the county chiefs in the 47 counties to embark on an Own Source Revenue (OSR) action by generating our revenue.

As much as we are benefiting from these conditional grants and disbursement from the national Government, we need to avoid wastage in form of corruption and stiffer penalties on people who are found culpable. Currently, we have desperate people out there who are in dire need of these services.

Devolution came to ensure that services get closer to the people. However, what we are seeing now is that services are getting close to the people but they are not able to benefit because of wastage of resources.

We have county chiefs who are also overpromising on what their counties can generate. As a result, we have so many pending bills. Thereby, we are unable to pay suppliers who are ordinary Kenyans looking to get their payment so that they can support their families.

I support the report but urge 47 county chiefs to minimize wastage and apply stiffer penalties on people who will be found capable of these activities that are contributing to losses knowing very well that this money is borrowed.

Thank you, Sen. Okenyuri. Now we will have Sen. Wafula.

Ahsante Bi. Spika wa Muda kwa fursa hii ambayo umenipa kuchangia hususan mada ya kuangazia pesa zinazokwenda mashinani.

Tunapopiga kurunzi mashinani, kuna kaunti ambazo kwa sasa zimeshindwa kuwapa wakulima pembejeo na mbegu za ukulima kwa sababu fedha hazipo. Hizi pesa zitakapoachiliwa, ninatumai ya kwamba wakulima watapewa nafasi bora, wanawake na mayatima ili waweze kujipanga katika musimu huu wa upanzi.

Vilevile, Serikali imetoa mufumo mpya wa kutoka kidato cha saba, cha nane hadi shule za upili. Hivi kwamba inahitajika miundo mbinu ambayo watoto wataweza kupata madarasa, madawati na vitabu. Vyote hivi vinahitaji pesa ili yote yawezekane.

Thank you very much Sen. Cherarkey. There are no more requests for contribution, I call upon the mover of the Motion to reply.

Thank you, Senator. We will now have Sen. Cherarkey contributing to this Motion.

on matters roads from one point to another in Kiharu, Maragwa or Mugoiri? When you ask them about budget performance and control, they are not able to absorb Kshs2 billion especially on development budget because of violation of Article 219 where the National Treasury is not keen on following the provision of the Constitution.

Therefore, as we pass this Motion, the National Treasury and other Government agencies must work to ensure that the money is dispersed as appropriated.

I think also county assemblies should work very hard because the law provides they should pass those budget estimates and others within the county assemblies especially in Article 224 on County Appropriation Bills.

Most county assemblies when they are passing county budgets do not have problems. Before, especially from 2013 most of the budgets were being rejected by the Controller of Budget (CoB) considering in the last two terms, there were challenges. However, I am happy with the capacity building of the county assemblies. The processing of budgets for county executives and assemblies is becoming much easier.

Thirdly, we need to relook at the financial autonomy of county assemblies. That is a soft underbelly in terms of our primary oversight. We need to give them financial autonomy as per the Public Financial Management (PFM) Act.

Madam Temporary Speaker, can you believe the Governor of Murangá, Nairobi or Nandi Counties whose Finance Executive Committee Member (CECM) gets money as per the PFM Act through the County Revenue Fund (CRF) from their bank account in the National Treasury.

It is processed to the county government, then the clerk of the county assembly makes a requisition for those monies to be taken to the county assemblies. How then are the Members of the County Assemblies (MCAs) expected to oversight this when the governor is holding it?

I was asking Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale to talk about accountability in Kakamega. Those MCAs could not oversight. If they oversight, the governor will not give them the money.

They will go without salaries, car loans and mortgages as well as allowances, yet, we know MCAs are the first line of defence for wananchi who have small harambees, baby showers, funerals and wedding preparations in the villages. I do not know whether they participate in the preparation of bull-fighting matches.

Madam Temporary Speaker, the point I am making is that the CECM makes a requisition. The Senate must be ready to give financial autonomy to our county assemblies. Governors are mischievous. They can tell the wananchi, “MCAs wanted to be given allowances yet there is no medicine. Do you want me to buy medicine or to give them money?” The wananchi will say medicine should be bought.

What happens if a Governor is summoned or invited to appear before a county assembly? They will use their power to withdraw and ensure non-accessibility. There was a policy before but we need to amend the PFM Act. I appeal to the House to give financial autonomy to MCAs in order to perform their duties.

I have seen Nandi County’s total conditional grants from the National Government which is provided for under Chapter 12 on Principles of Finance is getting a total of Kshs153,297,872. There is also conditional leasing of medical equipment.

: Apologies for that. Hon. Senators, it is now 6.30. p.m., time to adjourn the House. The Senate therefore stands adjourned until tomorrow Wednesday, 22nd February, 2023 at 2.30. p.m.

The Senate rose at 6.31. p.m.

violated the law should not receive any allocation. However, they go ahead and become part of this. Even for us who believe in the Holy Book, must account.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I know time is spent but this is a serious matter for this House. I know I have fifteen minutes or so. How many minutes to go?

(The clerk-at-the-Table spoke off record) 10 minutes. We need to be honest and I am happy the person who did this report is a former governor and did it with hindsight of understanding.

Point No.7 is on county supplement for construction of county headquarters. I thank them for looking at the Kshs163million. For example, Nandi and Nyamira counties are still going on with the construction of county headquarters. Tana River and a number of counties---

Sen. Cherarkey, I do not want to interfere, but it is 6.23 p.m. Please, bear in mind that we have a few minutes as you continue with your submission.

Okay Madam Temporary Speaker. The people who boycotted the House should be here because they are here for this reason. Of course, I understand. They need to be here so that we dispense it off.

Finally, Madam Temporary Speaker, the governors are not going to hide anywhere when it comes to accountability. Governor Oparanya went to court in 2013 to try to block governors from appearing before the Senate but the courts ruled in our favour. The Supreme Court Advisory and our role under Article 96, is crystal clear.

For example, the Nandi County headquarters that was under construction has stalled. There is no value for Kabiyet Dairy Cooperative Society and yet it has consumed a lot of money under the National Agricultural and Rural Inclusive Growth Project (NARIGP) . Kiborgok Tea Estate sits on 256 acres and that is own source revenue. Counties are not being creative in terms of own source revenue.

Madam Temporary Speaker, it only generates Kshs13 million. I know you come from Tea growing area. How can you tell me 256 hectares generate only Kshs13 million per year? That is corruption that we must fight and ensure that every penny and project that is taken to the county must be accounted for.

For instance, in Nandi County, more than three hundred projects have stalled and yet money has been consumed up to Kshs 300 million. The way the governors are excited in getting this allocation, they must also be excited and smiling when they come for accounting before the Senate of the Republic of Kenya.

In the interest of time that we can dispense and send money in good time. I beg to support and thank the Committee for the job well done.

I thank you.

Thank you very much Sen. Cherarkey. There are no more requests for contribution, I call upon the mover of the Motion to reply.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I take this opportunity to first extend my gratitude to the Senators for the contribution that they have given to this Motion.

It is very important to understand that this money is not a small amount. It includes the Kshs163 million for construction of County Headquarters. We are looking at Kshs17.319 billion being released to the county governments within the next three to four months.

The impact it will have in terms of circular flow of income in the country because the 47 counties stand to benefit from this money, it is extremely critical. The extreme and important role and function of the Senate is for us to prosecute a matter that is so critical in terms of releasing additional money to county governments for purpose of making sure the county governments are able to do these functions.

I know we have had a bit of controversial issues that may have led to a number of our Senators walking out. However, to be very frank, this is a very critical function of a Senator to understand that releasing additional funds to their counties is something that they needed to look at the Order Paper and say we must execute this. This is because time is running out and we need to think beyond the issue of political parties and such other issues.

It is very painful because as a Senator who has served as a governor for two terms, getting this money released very fast should be the interest of every Senator in making sure the funds get to these counties. This money is a lot as it is.

I appreciate the Senators that have taken their time to respond and give their input. We have taken note. In the interest of time, I beg to reply and request in line with the Standing Order No. 66 (3) .

Madam Temporary Speaker, I would like to request you to defer the putting of the question to a later date and with that I beg to reply.

I thank you.

Hon. Senators, I want to thank you more sincerely, first beginning with the mover of this Motion. A very important Motion has been moved in Senate today on matters that are affecting the county especially the budgets and the budgets allocations.

Hon. Senators, it is now close to 6.30 p.m. and this Motion is very important and I will request that the same be listed in the Order Paper tomorrow.

I request that this matter be listed in the Order Paper for Division, during tomorrow’s Session. I believe it is almost 6.30. p.m., may we all rise.

Apologies for that. Hon. Senators, it is now 6.30. p.m., time to adjourn the House. The Senate therefore stands adjourned until tomorrow Wednesday, 22nd February, 2023 at 2.30. p.m. The Senate rose at 6.31. p.m.