Tuesday, 19th March, 2024

Clerk, do we have quorum? Serjeant-at-Arms, kindly ring the Quorum Bell for 10 minutes.

Order, hon. Senators. I am informed that we do have quorum. Kindly take your seats, so that we can do our business.

Clerk, proceed to call the first Order. Sen. Ali Roba, we are waiting for you to take your seat. I have Communications to make.

Hon. Senators, in the Speaker’s Gallery, we have 16 students and one faculty member from Mama Ngina University College in Kiambu County, who are undertaking a one-day education visit in the Senate.

In our usual tradition of receiving and welcoming visitors to Parliament, I extend a warm welcome to them. On behalf of the Senate and my own behalf, I wish them a fruitful visit.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I take this opportunity, on behalf of all my colleagues, to welcome visiting students from Mama Ngina University College in Kiambu County. I am sure that when they scheduled a visit to the Senate, it was because of appreciation of the good work that has been going on in this House.

The students have visited to understand the law-making procedures. They should draw inspiration from their leaders, knowing that in the next few years, many of us will not be in this House. Therefore, we will be looking up to them to shepherd and guide our country, especially with regard to entrenching devolution and protecting the interest of counties as the core mandate of the Senate.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I wish them well in their studies. I hope they will get the full breadth to understand our responsibilities and that which they sought to find when they set their journey from Kiambu County to come to the Senate.

I thank you.

Hon. Senators, I do have another Communication to make.

Hon. Senators, the Standing Orders outline the procedure for introduction, consideration and voting on Bills in the Senate.

As hon. Senators are aware, the First Reading is the formal introduction of a Bill in the Senate. The Second Reading relates to debate on the merits and demerits of a Bill. The Committee of the Whole relates to consideration of a Bill clause by clause, including amendments, if any, and the Third Reading serves as the final stage where general comments on a Bill may be made before voting and referral to the National Assembly.

It has now become necessary for me to communicate a provision in the Standing Orders relating to co-sponsorship of Bills, as a number of sponsors may have overlooked this provision upon conclusion of Bills in the Senate and subsequent referral to the National Assembly for consideration.

As you are aware, Standing Order No.161 of the Senate Standing Orders provides that upon passage of a Bill originating in the Senate, a certified copy of the Bill shall be forwarded to the Clerk of the National Assembly by way of a Message.

Further, Standing Order No.162 provides for the framework for co-sponsorship of Senate Bills in the National Assembly. Standing Order No. I62(1) and (2) state as follows–

“(1) A Senator who intends to nominate a Member or Members of the National Assembly to co-sponsor a Bill passed by the Senate, shall upon passage of the Bill, notify the Speaker in writing of the name or names of the proposed co-sponsors.

Sen. Wafula, proceed to your seat. You will share the greetings later.

AND WHEREAS, on Tuesday, 12th March, 2024, the Senate considered the Affordable Housing Bill (National Assembly Bill No.75 of 2023), and passed it with amendments and referred back to the National Assembly for concurrence;

AND FURTHER, whereas the National Assembly having considered the amendments, concurred with the Senate on Thursday 14th March, 2024;

NOW THEREFORE, having concluded the bicameral passage of the Bill, the said Bill in accordance with the provisions of our Article 112 of the Constitution, the Speakers of Parliament, presented the Bill to His Excellency the President for assent today, Tuesday 19th March, 2024. The same is now an Act of Parliament.

I thank you. Hon. Senators, I also have another Message to pass on.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, rather than a point of order, it is to seek your direction on a matter that if not arrested, will soon lead us into a stalemate between us and our colleagues in the National Assembly.

Occasionally when I am not in the Chamber, I follow proceedings of what happens in the National Assembly, especially when they are debating Bills that have emanated from the Senate. If I am not wrong, this is the second Bill in this Session that the National Assembly has negated at the Second Reading Stage.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I even said this to our colleagues on the Minority side many times, that, unless a Bill is fatally flawed ab initio, it is an abuse of legislative procedure to negate any Bill at Second Reading.

Since I have seen Bills come to this House, and while the context and the overall body of what that Bill seeks to do may not be what Members intend, but because of our very rigorous procedures of law making, including Second Reading and eventually in the Committee of Whole, you clean it up and conform it to provisions of the Constitutions.

Therefore, given that this is the second Bill where the House has considered and particularly this Bill, there is a history to it. This Bill has been in the corridors of Parliament for over 10 years. We have considered it severally. In fact, I have lost count of the number of times the Senate has sent this Bill to the National Assembly and it has been returned.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, in fact, as much as there is progress to report because previously it used to be left to gather dust in the shelves of the National Assembly, this time they went all the way to Second Reading. Perhaps, you need to establish procedure, Mr. Speaker, between you and your colleague, the Speaker of the National Assembly, on how to consider our Bills.

Consequently, this is because we receive many Bills from the National Assembly side as well and there are many things, which for one reason or the other, we hold a different view on how they perceive it.

However, I find it to be a smack on the face of the Senate when you negate a Bill at Second Reading and call for mediation. It is an abuse of legislative mandate.

As a leader in this House, I would wish, because in a bicameral relation, our main link between us and the National Assembly is you, Mr. Speaker, that you register our displeasure with the leadership of the National Assembly through their Speaker on how they are treating our Bills.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is my considered view that a Bill should be considered to the final stage, then we can have a proper mediation of how they hold different views on certain provisions. However, to conclude on it at Second Reading is not fair to this House

and it is a matter which I invite you to have a conversation with your counterpart, the Speaker of the ‘Lower House’.

I thank you.

Thank you, Senate Majority Leader. Indeed, your concerns are valid and I will take it up with my counterpart in the National Assembly.

However, if you listen to my earlier communication on co-sponsorship, co- sponsorship is one of the ways that we can employ to avoid scenarios such as this. Since one, in as much as the Bill is considered extremely important by the Senate, the National Assembly may not necessarily feel the spirit behind that Bill.

However, if it is developed with certain co-sponsors in the National Assembly, those naturally become our ambassadors and they can make a case for and on behalf of the Senate, because then, they will feel the spirit behind this Bill.

Otherwise, I will take it up and we want hope that this may be the last Bill to collapse at the Second Reading in the National Assembly.

Next Order, Clerk.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is a petition regarding regulation of credit profession that was submitted by CCP Mokaya Magembi Bernard. It is the right of every Kenyan citizen to petition public authorities and Parliament as offered in the Constitution under Articles 37 and 119.

Further to the Petition to Parliament, Procedure Act No.22 of 2012 makes provision for the procedure for the exercise of the right to petition and defines the format of the petition to be addressed to Parliament.

Pursuant to Standing Orders No.232 (1) (a) and 236 (2) (b) of the Senate Standing Orders, on the 23rd May, 2023, a public petition concerning regulation of credit profession was presented to the Senate.

The Petition has been submitted to the Office of the Clerk by members of the Council of Institute of Credit Management Kenya (ICM-K) , led by CCP Mokaya Magembe Benard, who is the chairman. The petitioners prayed that the Senate enacts legislation to regulate the credit profession.

The Committee considered this Petition with a view to determining whether the matters raised therein merit intervention by legislature. During its inquiry and engagement with petitioners and relevant stakeholders, such as the Central Bank of Kenya (CBK) , the Committee found that credit professionals are increasingly playing a vital role in the economy, especially in the sectors dominated by financial institutions.

The credit professionals primarily undertake credit management, including determination of the credit worthiness of customers, managing relationships between the lender and a customer, mitigating against financial loss by assessing the credit risk of financial institutions, and developing credit policies for financial institutions.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, proper credit management influences financial inclusion and encourages ecosystem within which access to credit is improved. However, it is immediately apparent that whereas the primary role of credit management is to maximize profit, this cannot be achieved at the expense of the well-being of borrowers.

In the quest for ensuring profitability, some lenders have shown, over the years, evidence to resort to unscrupulous methods, especially in the collection of debt and misinformation of lenders on the fine print of borrowing facilities. This has led to situations where borrowers have overcommitted themselves financially. Further, lenders have institutionalised harassment and other forms of abuse as part of the innovative techniques or methods of collecting debt.

These predatory lending policies have in some instances had the opposite effect, where borrowers have been victims of exploitive collection practices and high rates of default due to non-disclosure within the conditions of lending that are not brought to the attention of the borrowers.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, at this crossroad of profit versus public interest, it stands the credit professionals whose main task is to ensure that credit management is underpinned by three main points, that is, profitability, customer focus and market stability.

This means that a proper credit management system involves development of clear credit policies that sets out in clear terms, credit limits, payment terms, interest rates, penalties and late payments.

Secondly, a regular customer monitoring and implementation of ethical collection pathways and clear, unambiguous communication is required. This infrastructure requires professionals whose training qualifications and contact is subject to regulatory role.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Committee, therefore, found merit and resolved to grant the petitioners prayer for the enactment of the law to regulate credit professionals in Kenya. The Committee will soon be presenting a Bill to this House on the regulation of credit profession for consideration and passage.

As I conclude, the Committee appreciates the petitioners, members of the Council of the Institute of Credit Management Kenya, who presented the petition through the Clerk's Office. The Committee acknowledges the time and considerable effort made by the CBK who submitted information concerning this petition.

The Committee is also particularly grateful to the Office of the Speaker and the Office of the Clerk of the Senate for support received during the discharge of this mandate.

I submit.

Next Order, Clerk.

Proceed, Senate Majority Leader.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to lay the following Papers on the Table of the Senate, today, Tuesday, 19th March, 2024-

Report of the Auditor-General on Financial Statements of Municipality of Homa Bay for the year ended 30th June, 2023.

Report of the Auditor-General on Financial Statements of Nakuru County Emergency Fund for the year ended 30th June, 2023.

Report of the Auditor-General on Financial Statements of Nakuru County Bursary Fund for the year ended 30th June, 2023.

Report of the Auditor-General on Financial Statements of Laikipia County Business Stimulus Fund for the year ended 30th June, 2023.

Report of the Auditor-General on Financial Statements of Laikipia County Leasing Fund for the year ended 30th June, 2023.

Report of the Auditor-General on Financial Statements of the County Executive of Bungoma for the year ended 30th June, 2023.

Report of the Auditor-General on Financial Statements of the County Assembly of Bungoma for the year ended 30th June, 2023.

Report of the Auditor-General on Financial Statements of the Bungoma County Assembly Members’ Car Loan and Mortgage Scheme Fund for the year ended 30th June,

Sen. Faki, you are supposed to lay a Paper on behalf of Sen. Ali Roba.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Sir. I beg to lay the following Paper on the Table of the Senate today, 19th March, 2024-

Report on Inaugural High-Level Joint Session of the Council of Governors (CoG) and the Senate held from 15th -18th June, 2023 in Naivasha, Nakuru County.

Sen. Faki on behalf of Sen. M. Kajwang’.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Sir. I beg to lay the following Paper on the Table of the Senate, today, 19th March, 2024-

The County Government's Additional Allocations Cash Disbursement Schedule for the Financial Year 2023/2024.

Thank you.

Sen. M. Kajwang’ or any Member of that Committee to proceed to lay the Paper.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. On behalf of Sen. M. Kajwang’, I beg to lay the following Paper on the Table of the Senate, today, 19th March, 2024.

Report of the proceedings and resolution of the inaugural biennial Devolution Conference held from 15th to 19th August 2323, in Eldoret, Uasin Gishu County.

Next Order, Clerk.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I beg to give notice of the following Motion-

THAT AWARE THAT Part 2 of the Fourth Schedule to the Constitution of Kenya obligates County Governments with the responsibility to develop, establish, manage, and maintain sports and cultural facilities which includes stadiums, sports arenas, cultural centres, and other related infrastructure;

NOTING THAT the entire Coastal Region of the country lacks a modern stadium built to international standards, thereby depriving the people the benefits that come with stadia and sports facilities;

CONCERNED THAT the construction of the Mombasa Municipal Stadium has encountered delays and setbacks since the inception of the project in 2019 due to financial constraints, which has since been halted depriving the community of the much needed facility;

NOW THEREFORE the Senate resolves that the National Treasury and the Ministry of Youth Affairs, Creative Economy and Sports allocates a conditional grant to the County Government of Mombasa amounting to Kshs1.7 billion for the completion of the Mombasa Municipal Stadium.

Thank you.

Next Order, Clerk.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I rise to make a Statement on the issue of a general topical concern on the efforts made to address the pressing issue of waste management through the development and implementation of a vibrant circular economy.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, Kenya generates over 8 million metric tonnes of waste annually. This calls for adaption of innovative approaches to transform waste into valuable raw materials for industrial production, in order to mitigate environmental degradation and promoting sustainable development. The benefits of a circular economy cannot be gainsaid, as it cuts on waste and reduces---

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am being distracted by my two colleagues.

Order, Sen. Abdul Haji and Sen. Dullo. May the Senator be heard in silence! No funny gestures. Allow the Senator to make her Statement.

Proceed, Senator.

Mr. Speaker Sir, the benefits of a circular economy cannot be gainsaid as it cuts on waste and reduces carbon emissions. Products are kept in use for as long as possible through sharing, leasing, reusing, repairing, refurbishing and recycling.

As we embark on this transformative journey, it is crucial to ensure that these benefits are equitably distributed across all segments in the society. This can be achieved by conducting a thorough gender and general demographic analysis at each stage of the value chain involved in the transformation process.

Further, disaggregating the data will also help in identifying and addressing any disparities, if any, in the accessibility of opportunities by both men and women during the process.

In order to maximize the impact of our waste management efforts, it is essential to decentralize the circular economy and engage communities at the grassroots level, indicating participation by the ward and benefits to be derived from the waste management process.

Order, hon. Senators. The Senate Majority leader.

Mr. Speaker Sir, Empowering communities to take ownership of waste management initiatives will also foster local economic development and environmental stewardship.

In addition, it is also important to diversify the typologies of industrial production plans that will utilize the raw materials generated from our waste management efforts, incorporating a range of industries specialized in recycling manufacturing and renewable energy production.

It will help in creating a more resilient and sustainable circular economy, which will in turn contribute to job creation and economic growth across various sectors.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, integrating waste collection processing an industrial production at the local level will minimize transportation cost and environmental impact, while maximising the utilisation of resources and generating economic opportunities for local communities. This will call for the production plans to be strategically located, in order to spur a circular economy within the country.

In conclusion, I emphasize the critical importance of bottom-up approach in spurring the circular economy, starting from the village or ward level and extending to the subcounty and county levels. Harnessing the collective efforts of communities and leveraging local resources will make us realize the vision of a sustainable and inclusive circular economy that aligns with our national development agenda and aspirations.

I thank you.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.52 (1) to make a Statement on a matter of inter-county concern, namely, the urgent need to improve water transportation in Lake Turkana, to enhance trade and connectivity.

I bring to your attention the pressing issue of challenging water transportation in Lake Turkana, which has significantly impeded trade between the Turkana and other communities residing on the opposite side of the Lake.

Despite the vast potential for trade and economic exchange, the absence of proper water transportation vessels suitable for a large-scale transportation has hindered the realization of these opportunities.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, Lake Turkana with its immense resources and strategic location, holds a great promise for facilitating trade and connectivity between various communities in the region. However, the lack of adequate water transportation infrastructure has posed several challenges, limiting the movement of goods, people and services across the lake.

It is disheartening to note that while other lakes in the region such as Lake Victoria boast large vessels like MV Nyehunge in the Port of Analo, Tanzania; MV Victoria in Bukoba, Tanzania, MV Sengerema at Mwanza Tanzania, MV Kaaawa in Port Bell, Uganda, MV Uhuru at Kisumu docks in Kenya and MV Pearl in Uganda, enabling transportation of goods, trading and fishing, Lake Turkana remains underserved in terms of water transportation infrastructure.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, some of the challenges arising from the lack of proper water transportation in Lake Turkana include-

Sen. Abdul Haji and Sen. Hezena, you can make use of the Lounge to extend your conversation. Otherwise, when you are here, you have to allow the Senator to read his Statement in silence.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Statements pursuant to Standing Order No.53 (1) . Sen. Cherarkey.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for the indulgence. I rise pursuant to Standing Order No. 53 (1) to seek a Statement from the Standing Committee on Agriculture, Livestock and Fisheries regarding the distribution of subsidised fertiliser to farmers across the country.

In the Statement, the Committee should-

Sen. Lomenen.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. My Statement is on the land acquisition process occasioned by the Lamu Port South Sudan Ethiopia Transport (LAPSSET) project in Turkana County.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.53 (1) to seek a Statement from the Standing Committee on Land, Environment and Natural Resources, on the land acquisition process occasioned by the LAPSSET corridor project in Turkana County.

In the Statement, the Committee should-

Proceed, Senator.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, this Statement is on the operationalisation of the Rural Electrification and Renewal Energy Corporation (REREC) projects in Turkana County.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.53 (1) to seek a Statement from the Standing Committee on Energy on operationalisation of REREC projects in Turkana County.

In this Statement, the Committee should-

Statement by Sen. Kathuri Murungi is deferred pursuant to his own request.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.53 (1) to seek a Statement from the Standing Committee on Health regarding the outcome of the assessment by the African population and Health Research Center on the policy and institutional constraints to the availability and supply of medical oxygen in Kenya.

In the Statement, the Committee should-

Proceed, Sen. Orwoba.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.53 (1) to seek a Statement from the Standing Committee on Health concerning inadequate bed capacity at Mbagathi County Referral and Mama Lucy Hospitals.

In the Statement, the Committee should-

Proceed, Sen. Chimera.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.53 (1) to seek a Statement from the Standing Committee on Land, Environment and Natural Resources concerning the impending shutdown of the mining company, that is, Titanium Limited in Kwale County.

In the Statement, the Committee should-

The next Statement is by Sen. Ledama.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.53 (1) to seek a Statement from the Standing Committee on Finance and Budget regarding budget formulation, execution and utilization in the county governments of Kiambu, Busia, Mandera, Mombasa, Nairobi, Tana River, Wajir, Machakos, and Narok counties for the Financial Year (FY) 2022/2023.

In the Statement, the Committee should-

Next is Sen. Mandago.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.53 (1) to seek a Statement from the Standing Committee on Roads, Transportation and Housing regarding production of new generation number plates at the Kenya Prisons Industries.

In the Statement, the Committee should-

Clerk, let us go to the next Order.

On a point of intervention, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

What is your intervention, Senate Majority Leader?

Mr. Speaker, Sir---

Senate Majority Leader, kindly take your seat. I had skipped one Statement. Allow Sen. Fatuma Dullo to request a Statement. Thereafter, you will seek your intervention.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.53 (1) to seek a Statement from the Standing Committee on Finance and Budget regarding utilisation of emergency relief funds in Isiolo County.

In the Statement, the committee should-

Senate Majority Leader, what is your intervention?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I seek your guidance on a matter that I am not sure whether it falls under Questions and Statements but is a matter of concern to the House.

The Senate, as established under Article 96, serves to protect the interests of counties. Therefore, occasionally, when there are matters that are of concern to the country that involves devolved units, the Senate needs to have a voice on the same.

The reason I am seeking your intervention is that occasionally, from previous practice in this House, we established a practice where we used to receive quarterly reports in our pigeonholes and sometimes even monthly releases by the Controller of Budget (CoB) on the funds that have been disbursed to the various county governments and their implementation thereon.

That happened because of a previous intervention such as what I am seeking here, where the Senate, through its Standing Committee on Budget and Finance, had a meeting

with the CoB. It was resolved at that meeting that occasionally--- Article 228 of the Constitution provides that at least every quarter, these reports should come to the House.

After that meeting, the resolution was that, if possible, on a monthly basis, each Senator shall receive reports on budget performance of their specific counties, which include Exchequer releases and the request for funding, so that they can monitor and do their oversight duties effectively. That practice has since been vacated. Unless I am the one who does not check my pigeonhole and the rest of my colleagues are getting, I no longer see that.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the reason I sought your intervention this afternoon is because I have noticed in the past few months, there is a tendency in the newspapers where we see coverage of budget performance by various counties. Reports by the CoB make it to newspaper headlines before coming to this House.

While that might serve the purpose of sensitizing citizens on how their county governments are performing, what happens after that? This is the only House that can compel various county governments to spend resources prudently. Senators should have an opportunity to interact with those reports.

Therefore, I seek your guidance on this particular matter. You need to guide the House on whether it is proper that the Senate no longer gets those reports as it was previously agreed in a previous communication to the Office of the CoB and whether we can establish a practice going forward.

Of course, these are new offices because with each new term, these offices evolve even in their operations. The kind of reports we read in the newspapers on own source revenue--- There was one previously. This week there has been one on travel expenditure by county governments. All those reports are important.

We laud the office of the CoB for making these reports public. However, for effective delivery of services to citizens and to ensure that people do not just read the reports--- For example, Makueni people will read how the County Assembly has traveled then what? You will be asked: As a Senator, what can you do about this?

If these reports do not find their way to the House, as Senators, we are hamstrung and there is very little we can do. Therefore, we need guidance from your good office so that we can effectively execute our responsibilities.

Sen Onyonka, would you like to ride on that?

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

You may proceed.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I second the Senate Leader of Majority, Sen. Cheruiyot.

There is a responsibility that comes with your office and it is meant to be buffered with data and information so that when we raise issues pertaining to such an issue that the Senate Majority Leader has raised, we need to be believable.

I completely agree with him that what is happening right now - I think he was being very polite - that information, which is out there, whether it is from the Auditor- General or the Controller of Budget, gets to social media and the media before we in the Senate, receive that information.

I would like to make a request to you, that let us look for a way how we can make that part of our job more official, or in any case, anyway, I do not think that there is a need even to put those reports in the pigeon holes. Let them be sent to us online, on our email addresses and WhatsApp. That way, we will get that information and deal with it.

Just like what my leader, Sen. Olekina, is raising about what is happening in his county, there is a lot of stuff going on. If you come to the committees where we sit, it is amazing. Therefore, like this case, I recommend that, let that governor be summoned and we analyse what is going on because these things keep repeating themselves over and over.

I second what the Senate Majority Leader just said.

Sen. Sifuna, did you want to say something different or the same?

Sen. Ledama Olekina, please, proceed.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Let me support the point of intervention by the Senate Majority Leader.

Article 228 (4) demands that the Controller of Budget shall not release funds to counties unless she is satisfied that, that money is being utilised effectively.

These reports have been misunderstood. When they are played out to the media houses, you will find that the media house has those reports, but they write that county X is number one in development. However, if you read even what the Controller of Budget has the power to do, it is only to set that report on implementation of the budget on how much has been withdrawn.

We know right now that we are dealing with over Kshs120 billion worth of pending bills. The only way we can be able to follow is by looking at those reports and going through the budget performance.

It would be important that we interrogate the Controller of Budget in this House so that we know how it is possible that media houses can have this report and say that county X is leading in development, yet it is the Auditor-General who has to carry out that audit report.

This is an important matter because right now, the diversion of funds - I have taken the responsibility myself, I have the CoB report but that is an extra effort. Article 228 (2) of the Constitution says that it should be tabled in each House.

Therefore, for us to effectively carry out our oversight, it will be important that each is given the cash requisition, so that we can stop this business of funds being diverted. The CEC of Finance and Economic Planning from each county requisitions money from the Controller of Budget. They send a spreadsheet, and in most cases, when you read those spreadsheets, you cannot make out what they are paying for; it is just a bunch of gibberish. Then the money is bolded in the big figure, for instance, Kshs300 million being withdrawn from the Exchequer - you get a credit from this account - The County Revenue Fund Account.

The only way that we can complement our oversight fund is by understanding this expenditure; you have requisitioned to pay the following developers, the following people who have supplied you - Why have you not paid them? Why have you deviated money to someone else? That is when we will cure this cancer of pending bills.

As I stand here today, I know of members of families who have committed suicide. I will bring a Motion to this House, and I hope all of you will support it, to compel counties to pay all their pending bills before the end of this financial year. Why do you budget it?

The only way we can deal with this mess is by looking at the budget performance of every county. Each Senator should stand here and say, “I can authoritatively state that my county has utilised this money because I have been armed by the report that I am getting from the CoB, and I understand that money is being spent.”

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I second this. It is timely that we get all those reports and analyse them so that we can interrogate these governors.

Sen. Madzayo, you have the Floor. The Senate Minority Leader (Sen. Madzayo) :

Asante, Bw. Spika. Nami

Thank you, hon, Senator, for your interventions. This is a very serious matter because it touches on the function and mandate of the Senate. More particularly the mandate of oversight. For Hon. Senators to offer effective oversight, they must be armed with information which must be transmitted to

Thank you, hon, Senator, for your interventions. This is a very serious matter because it touches on the function and mandate of the Senate. More particularly the mandate of oversight. For Hon. Senators to offer effective oversight, they must be armed with information which must be transmitted to

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir for your indulgence. I want to make brief comments on the request for Statement by Sen. Orwoba on the bed capacity at Mama Lucy Hospital.

Indeed, as part of my oversight work, I have visited all the Level Five county hospitals. The situation at Mama Lucy is quite dire. I wanted to inform this House that we have got some serious support from the Standing Committee on Health, very ably chaired by the Senator of Uasin Gishu County - Sen. Mandago.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, in fact, this Committee has helped us so much to reach a resolution to expand the county’s capacity to treat Nairobians by reaching an agreement with the national Government to hand back Mama Margaret Kenyatta Hospital in Korogocho.

It is most disheartening that when I visited Mama Lucy Hospital on 1st February, 2024, I was informed that the county has not made any follow up on the directive by the Senate Committee on Health and our facilities continue to be strained.

We have projects to expand capacity that have stalled at all the Level Five county facilities. In fact, for the Mama Lucy Hospital, there is a Kshs344 million project that was initiated by the Nairobi Metropolitan Services (NMS) stalled at 45 percent. The contractor is owed Kshs50 million. Therefore, they abandoned the site.

The Committee has been so gracious and supportive to Nairobi City County that they had scheduled a visit to these county facilities on Monday, 11th, March, 2024, which was a few days ago. The most heartbreaking thing is that on the eve of the visit we received communication that the County Governor had made himself busy, therefore, the Committee was not welcome to tour the county facilities.

I inform the Chairperson of the Committee that we have problems in Nairobi City County. If you go to Mbagathi Hospital, there is a stalled project where the contractor

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir for your indulgence. I want to make brief comments on the request for Statement by Sen. Orwoba on the bed capacity at Mama Lucy Hospital.

Indeed, as part of my oversight work, I have visited all the Level Five county hospitals. The situation at Mama Lucy is quite dire. I wanted to inform this House that we have got some serious support from the Standing Committee on Health, very ably chaired by the Senator of Uasin Gishu County - Sen. Mandago.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, in fact, this Committee has helped us so much to reach a resolution to expand the county’s capacity to treat Nairobians by reaching an agreement with the national Government to hand back Mama Margaret Kenyatta Hospital in Korogocho.

It is most disheartening that when I visited Mama Lucy Hospital on 1st February, 2024, I was informed that the county has not made any follow up on the directive by the Senate Committee on Health and our facilities continue to be strained.

We have projects to expand capacity that have stalled at all the Level Five county facilities. In fact, for the Mama Lucy Hospital, there is a Kshs344 million project that was initiated by the Nairobi Metropolitan Services (NMS) stalled at 45 percent. The contractor is owed Kshs50 million. Therefore, they abandoned the site.

The Committee has been so gracious and supportive to Nairobi City County that they had scheduled a visit to these county facilities on Monday, 11th, March, 2024, which was a few days ago. The most heartbreaking thing is that on the eve of the visit we received communication that the County Governor had made himself busy, therefore, the Committee was not welcome to tour the county facilities.

I inform the Chairperson of the Committee that we have problems in Nairobi City County. If you go to Mbagathi Hospital, there is a stalled project where the contractor

Sen. Mandago, proceed.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, allow me to comment on the Statement by Sen. Sifuna of Nairobi City County and confirm to this House that on Monday, 25th March, 2024, whether the Governor will be present or not, we are going to visit those facilities. We shall definitely follow up with the recommendations we had already made.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I had made a request to this House that it is extremely important that we re-introduce the Committee on Implementation so that when reports and resolutions are made, they are implemented.

I also thank the Senate Majority Leader for raising the matter of reports. These are the issues the Senator for Nairobi City County would be able to check on the spending that is not priority and should be re-directed towards service.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, allow me to comment on the Statement by Sen. Cherarkey on the issue of subsidized fertilizer. We are now in the planting season in the North Rift region. As we speak today, farmers are having challenges because of the delays in the delivery of subsidized fertilizer and the Ministry’s’ decision to deliver fertilizer to the National Cereals and Produce Board (NCPB) . Particularly, today, a lot of fertilizer is being delivered to the NCPB Eldoret Depot creating a lot of traffic and unnecessary queues.

This Statement is timely, and we would like the Ministry to ensure that subsidized fertilizer is distributed to farmers’ store in the cooperatives. One of the progressive

Mr. Speaker, Sir, allow me to comment on the Statement by Sen. Sifuna of Nairobi City County and confirm to this House that on Monday, 25th March, 2024, whether the Governor will be present or not, we are going to visit those facilities. We shall definitely follow up with the recommendations we had already made.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I had made a request to this House that it is extremely important that we re-introduce the Committee on Implementation so that when reports and resolutions are made, they are implemented.

I also thank the Senate Majority Leader for raising the matter of reports. These are the issues the Senator for Nairobi City County would be able to check on the spending that is not priority and should be re-directed towards service.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, allow me to comment on the Statement by Sen. Cherarkey on the issue of subsidized fertilizer. We are now in the planting season in the North Rift region. As we speak today, farmers are having challenges because of the delays in the delivery of subsidized fertilizer and the Ministry’s’ decision to deliver fertilizer to the National Cereals and Produce Board (NCPB) . Particularly, today, a lot of fertilizer is being delivered to the NCPB Eldoret Depot creating a lot of traffic and unnecessary queues.

This Statement is timely, and we would like the Ministry to ensure that subsidized fertilizer is distributed to farmers’ store in the cooperatives. One of the progressive

Proceed Sen. Maanzo.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I rise to support the Senator for Turkana County. Recently, we visited the county and the different committees of this House went on different missions in the county to deal with matters that had come before this House relating to the county.

The Lamu Port-South Sudan-Ethiopia Transport (LAPSSET) Corridor Project is a major project running all the way from Lamu County to South Sudan. It deals with providing easiest transportation and eradicating many challenges.

Wind and waves in Lake Turkana could be used to generate electricity. Sen. Lomenen tells me that when there is wind, Lake Turkana produces waves that could be used to generate electricity. Once, he was in a helicopter, and the wind was so strong that the helicopter was stagnant. This means that the wind around that area is very powerful and can be used to support the generation of power and at the same time, ease transport and security challenges at our border with South Sudan and Ethiopia. I support the Statement. This is an important matter to the country.

Finally, as Sen. Chimera stated in his Statement about the recent air crash, Wilson Airport is used to train novice pilots. At the same time, it is the main flight path of international flights and other flights that go to different destinations in the country. Therefore, we must synchronize the training and the normal flight path. We must also make the regulations very strict to avoid the occurrence of another accident of this nature.

Asante, Bw. Spika, kwa kunipa fursa hii. Ningependa kuunga mkono Taarifa iliyoletwa na Sen. Cherarkey kuhusu pembejeo ya bei nafuu.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker, for giving me this chance. Allow me to comment on Sen. Lemaletian's Statement on the environment.

We should take responsibility as Kenyans to ensure we live in a clean environment. It is disheartening to see that our surroundings are not well kept. There is dumping of dirt in our environs. We should live in a clean environment to stop the spread of diseases.

In December, we went to Rwanda for the East African Parliamentary Games. I was impressed to see how clean Rwanda is. I wondered what went wrong in Kenya so that we cannot live in such a clean environment.

We need policies that will ensure that the environment is kept clean and those who are responsible for ensuring that cleaning is done do so properly.

As we discuss climate change as a House, we should not concentrate only on planting trees but ensure that our environment is clean. With regard to the disposal of waste in estates and homes, it is discouraging to find that people can dump waste anywhere.

We need to develop a culture of cleanliness. Cleanliness is next to godliness. Kenya is godly, and a majority of us are Christians. Why can we not develop this culture from our families in schools, towns and estates to ensure waste disposal is properly managed and we live in a clean environment? It is important that we have proper means and ways of managing our waste.

I support the Statement.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker, for giving me this chance. Allow me to comment on Sen. Lemaletian's Statement on the environment.

We should take responsibility as Kenyans to ensure we live in a clean environment. It is disheartening to see that our surroundings are not well kept. There is dumping of dirt in our environs. We should live in a clean environment to stop the spread of diseases.

In December, we went to Rwanda for the East African Parliamentary Games. I was impressed to see how clean Rwanda is. I wondered what went wrong in Kenya so that we cannot live in such a clean environment.

We need policies that will ensure that the environment is kept clean and those who are responsible for ensuring that cleaning is done do so properly.

As we discuss climate change as a House, we should not concentrate only on planting trees but ensure that our environment is clean. With regard to the disposal of waste in estates and homes, it is discouraging to find that people can dump waste anywhere.

We need to develop a culture of cleanliness. Cleanliness is next to godliness. Kenya is godly, and a majority of us are Christians. Why can we not develop this culture from our families in schools, towns and estates to ensure waste disposal is properly managed and we live in a clean environment? It is important that we have proper means and ways of managing our waste.

I support the Statement.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker, for this opportunity. I would like to comment on the issue of subsidized fertilizer.

Several weeks ago, the Committee on Agriculture, Livestock and Fisheries held a public participation tour in the western part of the Republic. We made a surprise visit to Bungoma National Cereals and Produce Board (NCPB) where we found only nine bags of fertilizer for planting. This is after the residents of Bungoma were up in arms in Bungoma Town, Webuye, Kimaeti and all the other distribution centres complaining of lack of enough fertilizer for planting.

A phone call was made to the managing director who assured the people of Bungoma that in one or two weeks, we would have 40,000 bags, and at the end of the month, we would have 100 bags of planting fertilizer. To date, this is still a fairytale. The time is up for these people to pull up their socks or ship out. We cannot afford to go back to the days when people matched on the streets with cooking equipment, purportedly seeking rain to come down and shower crops.

There is a shortage of quality seeds in Kenya Seed Company. I will not be surprised if we do a thorough audit of this infrastructure and find that there is a problem that needs to be solved.

I want to request the Committee in charge to swiftly move with speed to ascertain these uncertainties and give direction to Kenyans and in particular, my great people of Bungoma and Trans-Nzoia.

Madam Temporary Speaker, something else that is cropping up which has been mentioned through the Huduma Centre in Bungoma; several weeks ago, staff of the Huduma Centre were reshuffled and transferred without recognising the fact that they have financial and family commitments that need proper adjustment.

Additionally, the same thing was seen the other day when I raised a matter on this Floor, pertaining to railways, where purportedly people of a particular ethnic orientation have been frustrated, intimidated, harassed and their tools of operation in their offices confiscated by the Directorate of Criminal Investigations (DCI) .

Hon. Senator, let me guide you. I do not think you can debate the statement that you have brought before the House. You can contribute to other statements brought by other Senators to the Floor of the House.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker.

Please, be guided and comment accordingly.

Please, be guided and comment accordingly.

Thank you, Senator. Proceed, Sen. Oburu Oginga.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker, for the opportunity to contribute.

I want to contribute to the Statement sought by my brother here, the Senator for Turkana County, and this is on the Rural Electrification and Renewable Energy Cooperation (REREC) .

He has sought a Statement asking REREC to activate rural electrification programmes in Turkana.

Madam Temporary Speaker, people do not think of Turkana as having a great potential for development. When you bring electricity to Turkana, it becomes a big trigger for development.

Turkana is a very rich county. Some people just look at the heat but apart from the heat, there is a lot of wealth underground. There is wealth of oil, water and a whole lake that is underground in Turkana.

I hope that this Statement which he is seeking on the REREC --- REREC used to be more active than the Kenya Power and Lighting Company (KPLC) themselves. However, I want them to wake up and impress us by taking steps to activate the REREC, which is a newer corporation. They should take steps to activate the electrification in Turkana.

Madam Temporary Speaker, electrification is such an important venture. In my own County of Siaya, I was perplexed yesterday when I went to the rural area. I found a whole industry for the milling of rice which has been put up by the county and it is not able to be commissioned just because of upgrading electricity to three phases.

Without electricity, there is no meaningful development. I do not want to take a lot of time as I just stood up to support the statement sought by my brother, the Senator for Turkana on REREC.

I hope that steps will be taken to activate these activities in Turkana County. I thank you.

Thank you, Senator. Proceed, Sen. Thang’wa.

Thank you very much, Madam Temporary Speaker. I want to support the Statement by Sen. Orwoba about health issues, especially in our hospitals in the County of Nairobi, not forgetting my home County, which is Kiambu County.

Madam Temporary Speaker, health is the most basic yet fundamental and important thing a human being would require to have the best of. Sometimes I ask myself whether the drafters of the Constitution did the right thing to surrender these hospitals to the governors.

Thank you very much, Madam Temporary Speaker. I want to support the Statement by Sen. Orwoba about health issues, especially in our hospitals in the County of Nairobi, not forgetting my home County, which is Kiambu County.

Madam Temporary Speaker, health is the most basic yet fundamental and important thing a human being would require to have the best of. Sometimes I ask myself whether the drafters of the Constitution did the right thing to surrender these hospitals to the governors.

I sometimes ask myself, if they could not trust the governors with our education, because it is not the function of county government when it comes to primary, high school or even universities. Why did they trust the governors with our health? That is something that we need to rethink because health, first, is universal and health is one of the most important things that we need to look into as a country.

I want to thank the Committee on Health because we have taken some statements to them. They have embarked on visiting counties to see the state of hospitals in various counties.

I know I have a Statement with the Committee on Health on the issue of Health Insurance for the employees of Kiambu County Government and they were supposed to visit Kiambu County last week but the Committee postponed that due to reasons that you understand very well.

Therefore, I believe the Standing Committees are the Committees that are going to assist this Senate to do its oversight mandate. As I always say, the County Public Investments and Special Funds Committee (CPIC) and County Public Accounts Committee (CPAC) are mere morticians, since they only check what the Auditor-General has said.

Madam Temporary Speaker, if the Auditor -General says this county had no fault at all, we will do nothing as those committees. However, if we take our job seriously as the Standing Committees and visit our counties as the other committees have been visiting different counties, we are going to find that county governors and county governments are not doing what they are supposed to do.

Therefore, by visiting counties, we can rectify this and take the necessary precautions instead of waiting for them to break the law. We wait for the Auditor- General, then the Auditor-General does a report to CPIC and CPAC and then we look at reports a year or two later.

Madam Temporary Speaker, for instance, we are now looking into the issues like crimes and mistakes that the previous governors had committed and which are now being answered by the current governors.

As I conclude, I am saying that because I know these committees like the Committee on Health, Committee on Agriculture, Livestock and Fisheries, other Committees not forgetting my Committee which is the Committee on Roads and Transportation, if we are keen on protecting devolution, let us visit the counties. Next week, let us have the Committee on Lands, Environment and Natural Resources in Kiambu, to check out why Kiambu is going to miss on Financing Locally Led Climate Action (FLLoCA); the money for climate change about Kshs110 million, just because the Governor there is refusing to comply.

Madam Temporary Speaker, let us have the Committee on Agriculture, Livestock and Fisheries, go to Kiambu County and check the distribution of fertiliser, the chicks and everything.

Let us have the Committee on Energy visit Kiambu to check why the county government has refused the installation of street lights. Let us have the Committee on Education visit Kiambu and check how many Early Childhood Education Centres (ECDs) have been built in that county because I believe we are being lied to.

Sen. Lomenen.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I support the Statement by Sen. Cherarkey. As we supply subsidized fertilizer to farmers, we should also remember that there are areas of northern part of Kenya, which also need animal feeds. The animal feeds help to improve the Gross Domestic Product (GDP) of the nation.

It is an injustice for farmers in other areas to enjoy subsidized fertilizer, yet livestock owners in northern part of Kenya do not enjoy the animal feeds. As we think of fertilizer to farmers, we should also think of animal feeds in northern part of Kenya.

I support with that reservation.

Sen. Mandago, if you want to inform the Senator for Turkana, you should use your equipment.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I wanted to inform the Senator for Turkana that the Government---

The Temporary Speaker

: Does he want to be informed? Senator for Turkana County, do you wish to be informed by Sen. Mandago?

Okay. He has allowed you.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I want to inform the Senator for Turkana County that through the National Drought Management Authority (NDMA) , the national Government has been supporting livestock farmers through the offtake of livestock, particularly during the dry periods and supply of feeds.

I urge the Senator for Turkana County to ask for supply of grass seeds so that grass can be planted during rainy seasons in the northern part of Kenya.

We want to support the Senator for Samburu County because they lost over seven kilometres of pasture through fires. We believe that they should also be compensated so that livestock farmers can continue benefiting from the Government.

Thank you.

Thank you, Senator. Sen. Faki, proceed.

Does he want to be informed? Senator for Turkana County, do you wish to be informed by Sen. Mandago? Okay. He has allowed you.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I also want to support the Statement by Sen. Olekina on the budget making and utilisation in several counties, including my own county of Mombasa.

It is true that the performance of Mombasa County in terms of Budget implementation has not been up to standard in the current administration. For instance, in the Financial Year 2022/2023, we failed to meet our target on Own Source Revenue (OSR) by about Kshs1.2 billion. This will have a bearing on the projects that the Government had put in place to implement in the Financial Year 2022/2023.

Two, there are also high levels of pending bills. At the moment, the pending bills stand at Kshs3.92 billion as at 31st December, 2023. This is against the fact that there was a sum of Kshs2.91 billion available in the County Revenue Fund (CRF) , which was supposed to be used to offset some of those pending bills. These pending bills are worsening, and they will have a bearing on the future financial performance of the County of Mombasa.

Three is on the youth and empowerment programmes that are supposed to be undertaken in the county. Mombasa being the port city, at the moment, we have the largest number of youth unemployment.

If you look at the Report by the Controller of Budget (CoB) , it places the youth unemployment at 44 per cent. Approximately four out of every 10 youths are jobless at the moment. However, our county government has not undertaken any projects that will be geared towards reduction of this youth unemployment. This will have a bearing on budget absorption and development in Mombasa County.

Finally, there was the issue of diversion of funds in the county treasury and weak budgeting practice. This one also will have a bearing---.

At the moment, the county government of Mombasa does not have a Financial Act for the year 2024/2025.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I fully support the Statement by hon. Sen. Olekina. I urge the Committee on Finance and Budget, which I am a Member, to quickly deal with these issues so that we can arrest any future bottlenecks that will arise as a result of failure by these counties that are mentioned in this Statement.

Thank you.

Sen. Orwoba, proceed.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I also want to support the Statement by Sen. Olekina on the budget making and utilisation in several counties, including my own county of Mombasa.

It is true that the performance of Mombasa County in terms of Budget implementation has not been up to standard in the current administration. For instance, in the Financial Year 2022/2023, we failed to meet our target on Own Source Revenue (OSR) by about Kshs1.2 billion. This will have a bearing on the projects that the Government had put in place to implement in the Financial Year 2022/2023.

Two, there are also high levels of pending bills. At the moment, the pending bills stand at Kshs3.92 billion as at 31st December, 2023. This is against the fact that there was a sum of Kshs2.91 billion available in the County Revenue Fund (CRF) , which was supposed to be used to offset some of those pending bills. These pending bills are worsening, and they will have a bearing on the future financial performance of the County of Mombasa.

Three is on the youth and empowerment programmes that are supposed to be undertaken in the county. Mombasa being the port city, at the moment, we have the largest number of youth unemployment.

If you look at the Report by the Controller of Budget (CoB) , it places the youth unemployment at 44 per cent. Approximately four out of every 10 youths are jobless at the moment. However, our county government has not undertaken any projects that will be geared towards reduction of this youth unemployment. This will have a bearing on budget absorption and development in Mombasa County.

Finally, there was the issue of diversion of funds in the county treasury and weak budgeting practice. This one also will have a bearing---.

At the moment, the county government of Mombasa does not have a Financial Act for the year 2024/2025.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I fully support the Statement by hon. Sen. Olekina. I urge the Committee on Finance and Budget, which I am a Member, to quickly deal with these issues so that we can arrest any future bottlenecks that will arise as a result of failure by these counties that are mentioned in this Statement.

Thank you.

I come from Bobasi Constituency in Kisii County. It is a vast constituency with eight wards. We have Kenyans from as far as Nyacheki Ward who do not have the capacity to access the Huduma Centre on the other side of town.

It would be imperative that we are informed, if at all, there are any plans to devolve and make sure that Huduma Centres go down, to, at least, having one Huduma Centre in each ward so that all Kenyans get the services that they require from Huduma centres.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I also request that the Committee looks into how they can collaborate with National Youth Service (NYS) as a human resource capacity to partner with Huduma Centres.

We have many youths who are under NYS and have been trained on various capacity. There is an opportunity there for them to assist in some of the duties that we have in Huduma Centre.

As I said, I am from Bobasi Constituency. We have many youths who have been recruited from my constituency and would serve in great capacity in these huduma centres, if we were able to make sure that we bring it down to the ward level.

I, therefore, support the Statement on the policy for deployment of staff serving in Huduma centres by the Senator for Bungoma County, Sen. Wafula.

Thank you.

Sen. Oketch Gicheru.

I come from Bobasi Constituency in Kisii County. It is a vast constituency with eight wards. We have Kenyans from as far as Nyacheki Ward who do not have the capacity to access the Huduma Centre on the other side of town.

It would be imperative that we are informed, if at all, there are any plans to devolve and make sure that Huduma Centres go down, to, at least, having one Huduma Centre in each ward so that all Kenyans get the services that they require from Huduma centres.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I also request that the Committee looks into how they can collaborate with National Youth Service (NYS) as a human resource capacity to partner with Huduma Centres.

We have many youths who are under NYS and have been trained on various capacity. There is an opportunity there for them to assist in some of the duties that we have in Huduma Centre.

As I said, I am from Bobasi Constituency. We have many youths who have been recruited from my constituency and would serve in great capacity in these huduma centres, if we were able to make sure that we bring it down to the ward level.

I, therefore, support the Statement on the policy for deployment of staff serving in Huduma centres by the Senator for Bungoma County, Sen. Wafula.

Thank you.

They must explain to us whether they actually understood the scope of the farmers they need to supply to. They ought to know the number of farmers who were targeted by this shipment. If we cannot know the number of farmers, then, at least, the regions, they were certain that they were going to supply.

If you talk about a place such as the North Rift, it is where the serious backbone of the leadership of this country comes from. Sen. Cherarkey himself is a serious and ranking Member of Parliament (MP). The North Rift is also where our dear President, who I have nothing against, comes from.

If you go to a place such as Eldoret, people are queuing up to the evening for fertilizer but 60 per cent of them do not even get it. You can imagine, if people are queuing for fertilizer and they cannot get it in places where Sen. Cherarkey, the Senate Majority Leader of this House and the President come from, how about a place such as Nyatike where I come from? Nyatike does not even have proper roads to begin with.

Masangora in Kuria is at the far end of Migori County. How are farmers in Rongo – a place where farmers are passionate and dedicated about agriculture – supposed to get fertilizer if there is no fertilizer in a place such as Eldoret?

Last year, we had Senate Mashinani in Turkana and we visited Katilu Irrigation Scheme. We realised that fertilizer was only found in places such as Lokichar and Lodwar. People in remote areas such as Katilu were not getting fertilizer. This is something I hope we can have a bipartisan approach on.

I hope this will not be one of those Statements where Sen. Cherarkey is serviced with a response from the Ministry. The responsible Cabinet Secretary must appear before the relevant committee. I encourage some Senators in this House, such as the Senate Majority Leader, to go there and ensure that the Cabinet Secretary is put to task to answer to the fact that farmers are not getting fertilizer.

Madam Temporary Speaker, as I finish, I have always held the view that when we think about subsidy for farm inputs, it must not stop only on fertilizer. Sen. Cherarkey will not eat only ugali without some meat or fish. I know he loves meat so much.

When there is subsidy for crops in this country, we should also have subsidy for animal feeds for people in Nyatike, Kuria, and Narok as well as people who grow fish in Lake Victoria. We need to start seeing the Government also subsidize animal feeds to make sure that agriculture is subsidized in totality, to make it a real production and not a pseudo-operation that we are seeing.

I hope when they start subsiding animal feeds, there will be more transparency in terms of the suppliers and contractors and the shipments that bring the items in the country.

Madam Temporary Speaker, this is an important Statement. As I support it, I hope that we will follow it to fruition.

I thank you.

Hon. Senators, we have spent the time that we had allocated for Statements. I have two more Senators remaining. I will give you two minutes each, so that we close that session.

Sen. Cherarkey and Sen. Murgor, you will have two minutes each. Let us have Sen. Cherarkey first. Sen. Murgor, kindly resume your seat.

Madam Temporary Speaker, this Statement could not go without me saying something. As the Vice Chairperson of the County Public Accounts Committee (CPAC) , I thought it is important to support the Statement by Sen. Olekina. I think this is where the meat is.

I want to challenge us to go beyond the counties that have been mentioned. On the issue of supplementary budgets and approvals, there have been instances where the CoB approves some items that cannot be traced.

When you look at payment vouchers and requisitions from the counties, they are like love letters by county governors. They just request for Kshs100 million. When the CoB asks about the itemized issues, they just get the names. That is why we have a challenge of pending bills. I would like to challenge the Office of the CoB to be vigilant especially when they approve requisitions.

We are aware that there are some officers in the Office of the CoB who see governors behind the tent. You will find a governor having written a requisition but when it is time to release funds, some officers in the Office of the CoB demand a certain percentage.

That is why a lifestyle audit of some officers in the Office of the CoB should be done. A number of them have been moving to Karen, Runda and Kileleshwa, among other high-end estates. They also have unexplained wealth. Action should be taken, now that governors have realized it is easy to have supplementary budget approved.

I look forward to seeing this in the Committee of the Whole and all the 47 counties included.

I support.

Sen. Murgor, you may have the Floor.

Madam Temporary Speaker, this Statement could not go without me saying something. As the Vice Chairperson of the County Public Accounts Committee (CPAC) , I thought it is important to support the Statement by Sen. Olekina. I think this is where the meat is.

I want to challenge us to go beyond the counties that have been mentioned. On the issue of supplementary budgets and approvals, there have been instances where the CoB approves some items that cannot be traced.

When you look at payment vouchers and requisitions from the counties, they are like love letters by county governors. They just request for Kshs100 million. When the CoB asks about the itemized issues, they just get the names. That is why we have a challenge of pending bills. I would like to challenge the Office of the CoB to be vigilant especially when they approve requisitions.

We are aware that there are some officers in the Office of the CoB who see governors behind the tent. You will find a governor having written a requisition but when it is time to release funds, some officers in the Office of the CoB demand a certain percentage.

That is why a lifestyle audit of some officers in the Office of the CoB should be done. A number of them have been moving to Karen, Runda and Kileleshwa, among other high-end estates. They also have unexplained wealth. Action should be taken, now that governors have realized it is easy to have supplementary budget approved.

I look forward to seeing this in the Committee of the Whole and all the 47 counties included.

I support.

Sen. Murgor, you may have the Floor.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker, for giving me the opportunity to also join my colleagues in airing my views about the subsidy fertilizer.

It is common knowledge that now there is plenty of food in Kenya because of the subsidized fertilizer that we received last year.

Madam Temporary Speaker, with that plentifulness, there is a lot of joy and happiness in the nation on the availability of food, unlike how it was in the other previous years where some of the marginalised areas faced constant starvation. In those areas, in February, March and April, there would be shortage of food, but that subsidised fertilizer did wonders last year.

It is therefore causing a lot of anxiety now that it is either not there or it is little because the long queues of people prove that it is not available. The Cabinet Secretary concerned should be made aware by the system so that he makes the commodity available.

I support.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I beg to move that, the Senate- Adopts the Report of the Standing Committee on Finance and Budget on the 2024 Medium Term Debt Management Strategy, laid on the Table of the Senate on Thursday, 7th March, 2024.

The 2024 Medium Term Debt Management Strategy (MTDS) was submitted to Parliament by the National Treasury and Economic Planning on 15th February, 2024 pursuant to Section 33 of the Public Finance Management (PFM) Act, Cap 412A. The Act provides that:

“On or before the 15th February in each year, the Cabinet Secretary shall submit to Parliament a statement setting out the debt management strategy of the National Government over the medium term with respect to its actual liability and potential liability in respect of loans and guarantees and its plans for dealing with those liabilities.”

Madam Temporary Speaker, upon submission, the 2024 MTDS was tabled in the Senate at the sitting held on 15th February, 2024. Thereafter, it was referred to the Standing Committee on Finance and Budget for consideration, facilitation of public participation and consequent tabling of a report in the Senate.

Section 33 (2) of the PFM Act provides that the MTDS should be aligned to the broad strategic priorities and policy goals set out in the Budget Policy Statement (BPS) , which the Senate approved last week. Section 33 (3) of the same Act provides that:

“The Cabinet Secretary shall include in the statement the following information- a) the total stock of debt as at the date of the statement; b) the sources of loans made to the national government and the nature of guarantees given by the national government;

c) the principal risks associated with those loans and guarantees; d) the assumptions underlying the debt management strategy; and e) an analysis of the sustainability of the amount of debt, both actual and potential.”

The 2024 MTDS outlines the strategies and initiatives to be implemented with the goal of minimizing debt management costs and risks, and it covers the period from Financial Year 2024/25 to 2026/27.

Madam Temporary Speaker, at the end of June, 2023, the nominal amount of public and publicly guaranteed debt was Kshs10.278 trillion, or 70.8 percent of the Gross Domestic Product (GDP) . This comprised an external debt stock of Kshs5.446 trillion and domestic debt stock of Kshs4.832 trillion.

According to the National Treasury, the total nominal stock of public and publicly guaranteed debt as at February 2024 was Kshs11.248 trillion, or 69.7 percent of GDP. Present value of public debt to GDP is 67.2 percent. This comprises external debt stock of Kshs.6.1899 trillion and domestic debt stock of Kshs.5.0580 trillion.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I rise to second this Motion brought to us by our Members of the Finance and Budget Committee, a report on the MTDMS. It is very important policy document, which unfortunately we mostly do not give it the due consideration.

The biggest crisis that the country continues to face - and we have been in this space, fiscally speaking, for close to five years now - is a debt distress issue. Many of our policy decisions right now are being informed one way or the other by the debt situation we find ourselves in as a country.

That is why, in its wisdom, Parliament made it mandatory for the Cabinet Secretary for National Treasury and Economic Planning to send this document to Parliament by the 15th of every financial year so to provide a guide and a way through which Parliament can appraise itself of our debt obligations and plan specifically of how we intend to unclog us out of this mess that we find ourselves in.

I have observed many times on the Floor of this House that this is a conversation which we will have for the next foreseeable future. In my estimation, it is going to be longer than the five years we projected when we passed the PFM amendments a few months ago where we determined that the debt-to-GDP ratio needs to be at a sustainable level of 55 per cent of our GDP. That becomes the measure through which our debt sustainability is anchored.

We gave ourselves five years. Of course, this financial year to 2029 with a view to making it possible that by 2029, the debt to GDP ratio will be at 55 per cent. Right now, it is at 68 per cent. So, 13 percent is no mean feat.

If we carry on in the direction that I see this Report proposing, unfortunately, the bad news that we need to deliver to the country is that we will not be able to turn this wheel around by 2029.

The proposals that we are making in this Report are sound and informed by good logic. I congratulate our colleagues who serve in the Committee on Budget and Finance for being thorough with this document. They have done an excellent job though I believe that there are more stringent measures that we need to introduce.

The Executive cannot save the country because they are under pressure, and I understand where they are coming from. When they visit different parts of the country, speaker after the other, request for this or that other road, water project, hospital to be furnished and so on.

I want to make mention of this because I appreciate what Sen. Faki has done a good job in elaborating all the recommendations that have been made by the Committee. However, in seconding, because I do not intend to be long, I wish to propose ways in which I think we, as a country, need to move and make it better.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I have said this to the National Assembly and its leadership, I have told the President and I can even go publicly about this - I hold the view that so long as we do not do a zero-based budget and continue to do a programme- based budgeting process, we will be in this debt distress situation for many years to come.

There are many areas that we continue to spend public funds, which we do not have to. Yesterday I was glad when I listened to the President speaking and mentioned something that I have been very passionate about, that there are many State corporations which we do not need to be funding. This is because some of them are obsolete, yet they continue to consume our taxes and we continue to borrow to keep them sustainable.

It is inconceivable for a country with a small economy such as Kenya, that we spend over Kshs50 billion monthly just to run the operations of the Government. What is it that we are doing with over Kshs50 billion just to keep the Government afloat and running? Paying operations here and there; per diems for people. We do not need 350 State corporations. I believe that number can be reduced to even less than 100.

If we gave more responsibilities to many of our State corporations and allowed them to do many other things other than ensuring that each of them has a Board, a Chief Executive Officer and a Company Secretary; all being paid by the taxpayers. Kenyans over overburdened.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I rise to second this Motion brought to us by our Members of the Finance and Budget Committee, a report on the MTDMS. It is very important policy document, which unfortunately we mostly do not give it the due consideration.

The biggest crisis that the country continues to face - and we have been in this space, fiscally speaking, for close to five years now - is a debt distress issue. Many of our policy decisions right now are being informed one way or the other by the debt situation we find ourselves in as a country.

That is why, in its wisdom, Parliament made it mandatory for the Cabinet Secretary for National Treasury and Economic Planning to send this document to Parliament by the 15th of every financial year so to provide a guide and a way through which Parliament can appraise itself of our debt obligations and plan specifically of how we intend to unclog us out of this mess that we find ourselves in.

I have observed many times on the Floor of this House that this is a conversation which we will have for the next foreseeable future. In my estimation, it is going to be longer than the five years we projected when we passed the PFM amendments a few months ago where we determined that the debt-to-GDP ratio needs to be at a sustainable level of 55 per cent of our GDP. That becomes the measure through which our debt sustainability is anchored.

We gave ourselves five years. Of course, this financial year to 2029 with a view to making it possible that by 2029, the debt to GDP ratio will be at 55 per cent. Right now, it is at 68 per cent. So, 13 percent is no mean feat.

If we carry on in the direction that I see this Report proposing, unfortunately, the bad news that we need to deliver to the country is that we will not be able to turn this wheel around by 2029.

The proposals that we are making in this Report are sound and informed by good logic. I congratulate our colleagues who serve in the Committee on Budget and Finance for being thorough with this document. They have done an excellent job though I believe that there are more stringent measures that we need to introduce.

The Executive cannot save the country because they are under pressure, and I understand where they are coming from. When they visit different parts of the country, speaker after the other, request for this or that other road, water project, hospital to be furnished and so on.

I want to make mention of this because I appreciate what Sen. Faki has done a good job in elaborating all the recommendations that have been made by the Committee. However, in seconding, because I do not intend to be long, I wish to propose ways in which I think we, as a country, need to move and make it better.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I have said this to the National Assembly and its leadership, I have told the President and I can even go publicly about this - I hold the view that so long as we do not do a zero-based budget and continue to do a programme- based budgeting process, we will be in this debt distress situation for many years to come.

There are many areas that we continue to spend public funds, which we do not have to. Yesterday I was glad when I listened to the President speaking and mentioned something that I have been very passionate about, that there are many State corporations which we do not need to be funding. This is because some of them are obsolete, yet they continue to consume our taxes and we continue to borrow to keep them sustainable.

It is inconceivable for a country with a small economy such as Kenya, that we spend over Kshs50 billion monthly just to run the operations of the Government. What is it that we are doing with over Kshs50 billion just to keep the Government afloat and running? Paying operations here and there; per diems for people. We do not need 350 State corporations. I believe that number can be reduced to even less than 100.

If we gave more responsibilities to many of our State corporations and allowed them to do many other things other than ensuring that each of them has a Board, a Chief Executive Officer and a Company Secretary; all being paid by the taxpayers. Kenyans over overburdened.

Thank you, Sen. Cheruiyot.

Hon. Senators, we now have an opportunity for Senators to contribute to this Motion and I will first call upon Sen. Edwin Sifuna.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I was going through the very glossy Kenya Kwanza Coalition 2022 manifesto. One of the striking things that one gets from the very initial pages of that manifesto is the Kenya Kwanza Political Coalition at that particular moment in time had properly diagnosed the problem with Kenya's debt. At least that is what they told us.

There is a paragraph that I want to borrow there; they said at the time of campaigns the common adage that:

“When you are in a hole, you should stop digging.” I have lifted word for word from the glossy Kenya Kwanza Manifesto for the last election.

So, the expectation in public pronouncements that followed the launch of that manifesto was that we were going to see a stop in the borrowing that had characterised the last regime. This is because that was the reason why we were in the hole that they said we were in.

If you go to Pages 6 and 7 of the report of the Standing Committee on Finance and Budget, they will tell you that in June 2023, the debt was at Kshs10.2 trillion. By February 2024, which is less than eight months later, we were at Kshs11.2 trillion.

At that rate, in eight months, our debt had ballooned by Kshs1 trillion shillings. I have had the Senate Majority Leader also wax lyrical on the magic that was worked with the refinancing of Eurobond. If you go to page 9 of the report of this committee, you will see a reference there to the partial buyback of the Eurobond. However, what the Committee does not tell you is that, we as a country, in that buyback offered one of the highest interest rates, higher than any other country has done in Africa, at 10.37 per cent for that Eurobond for us to attract investors.

If you want comparisons, Cote d'Ivoire, in January of this year, issued a Eurobond, and their interest rate was 8.5 per cent. Benin did the same in February, at 7.5 per cent. We have kicked the can down the road so that in six years, we will be paying investors the highest rate by any African state on a Eurobond.

So, it is not something to sing about because the hole that we were told we were in that this current regime promised to stop digging further is getting deeper and deeper.

Madam Temporary Speaker, you will also see on page 8 of the report that the Committee acknowledges that Kenya's public debt although remaining sustainable, still has a high risk of debt distress which tells you that we should not be celebrating anything as it is right now because we are still under great risk of debt distress.

Let me conclude by making a few observations on some of the stakeholder submissions. Unfortunately, let me note that some of these submissions by key stakeholders to the committee did not find their way into the recommendations by the committee. I do not understand why. Luckily, for me, I am seated next to one of the

members of the committee. Sen. Eddy Oketch will tell me why they ignored these important submissions from his Institute of Certified Accountants (ICPAC).

On Page 21, Paragraph 25(c), (d), and (e), I just want to read those recommendations. On Page 21 of the report, this is what the Institute of Certified Public Accountants (ICPAC), recommended that the committee must do.

First, we need to prioritise projects independently assessed for financial viability and consider absorption capacity constraints within the investment timelines. They also recommended, considering public-private partnerships as a form of financing development expenditure. Further, they recommended that we gradually retire expensive commercial loans for long-term concessional loans.

One of the recommendations that was debated this afternoon when we were discussing another matter is that Parliament should demand regular reports on capital projects financed through debt from the National Treasury to enhance openness and transparency. The report should include the corresponding feasibility studies, details of commitment fees, if any, and the project implementation status.

This is coming from the perspective of what we saw in the last regime. In fact, the money was borrowed. However, the Auditor-General himself told us that he could not trace a single project to which the money that was borrowed went to.

We had the spectre of projects such as the Arror and Kimwarer dams. If we were in this position where Parliament would be demanding for regular reports, we should be shown why this money was borrowed. Which projects have been identified to be supported through those borrowed funds; the feasibility studies and the commitment fees that had been paid.

You remember, there was a controversy at that time with the Arror and Kimwerer dams as to what commitment fees had been paid. It involved the person of the current President when he was the then Deputy President, telling the country that it was a mere Kshs9 billion, just a small figure. He told us the Kshs7 billion had been lost.

On a point of Order, Madam Temporary Speaker.

members of the committee. Sen. Eddy Oketch will tell me why they ignored these important submissions from his Institute of Certified Accountants (ICPAC).

On Page 21, Paragraph 25(c), (d), and (e), I just want to read those recommendations. On Page 21 of the report, this is what the Institute of Certified Public Accountants (ICPAC), recommended that the committee must do.

First, we need to prioritise projects independently assessed for financial viability and consider absorption capacity constraints within the investment timelines. They also recommended, considering public-private partnerships as a form of financing development expenditure. Further, they recommended that we gradually retire expensive commercial loans for long-term concessional loans.

One of the recommendations that was debated this afternoon when we were discussing another matter is that Parliament should demand regular reports on capital projects financed through debt from the National Treasury to enhance openness and transparency. The report should include the corresponding feasibility studies, details of commitment fees, if any, and the project implementation status.

This is coming from the perspective of what we saw in the last regime. In fact, the money was borrowed. However, the Auditor-General himself told us that he could not trace a single project to which the money that was borrowed went to.

We had the spectre of projects such as the Arror and Kimwarer dams. If we were in this position where Parliament would be demanding for regular reports, we should be shown why this money was borrowed. Which projects have been identified to be supported through those borrowed funds; the feasibility studies and the commitment fees that had been paid.

You remember, there was a controversy at that time with the Arror and Kimwerer dams as to what commitment fees had been paid. It involved the person of the current President when he was the then Deputy President, telling the country that it was a mere Kshs9 billion, just a small figure. He told us the Kshs7 billion had been lost.

On a point of Order, Madam Temporary Speaker.

What is your point of order, Sen. Orwoba?

Madam Temporary Speaker, I stand on Standing Order No.101 (1) on contents of speech:

“Neither the personal conduct of the President nor the conduct of the Speaker or any other judge.”

It is not in order that Sen. Edwin Sifuna is referencing the President and in the manner with which he is doing. This is based on our Standing Order. If he can articulate his points without having to drag either the name of the President or the Speaker or any of the persons that are mentioned under Standing Order 101 under the content of speech.

Madam Temporary Speaker, should I respond before you make a decision?

There was controversy at that particular point in time as to how much money had been lost or alleged to be lost at that particular project. The recommendation from ICPAC that I am reading from the report was that we should get regular reports from the Government itself, including details of any commitment fees that have been paid.

If this was being done, the point I was making was that there would be no room for such controversy. I am not discussing the character of the President. I know that under the Standing Orders, if I wanted to do so, I would bring a Motion. It is something I am happy to do because there are many questionable conducts from the head of State in this Government. However, I have not brought a Motion yet.

Madam Temporary Speaker, please protect me because you are the Chair of this Session.

Sen. Sifuna, let me give a ruling with respect to what Sen. Orwoba has raised.

I have looked at Standing Order 101, the mode in which Sen. Sifuna has brought out that issue has not, as of yet, discussed any conduct that could be adversarial to the person of the Presidency. So, you may proceed to debate, but avoid raising the questionable issues unless you are willing to give justification.

There was controversy at that particular point in time as to how much money had been lost or alleged to be lost at that particular project. The recommendation from ICPAC that I am reading from the report was that we should get regular reports from the Government itself, including details of any commitment fees that have been paid.

If this was being done, the point I was making was that there would be no room for such controversy. I am not discussing the character of the President. I know that under the Standing Orders, if I wanted to do so, I would bring a Motion. It is something I am happy to do because there are many questionable conducts from the head of State in this Government. However, I have not brought a Motion yet.

Madam Temporary Speaker, please protect me because you are the Chair of this Session.

Proceed, Sen. Cherarkey.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker, for the opportunity. I thank Sen. Faki for ably moving the Motion although he was reading contrary to our Standing Orders. I do not want to believe he was reading but cross-referencing while moving.

Article 211 of the Constitution is on borrowing by national Government. The Constitution 2010 took more than 20 years to be drafted. One of the salient features is prudent financial management, especially on public finance. That is the reason the drafters and Kenyans approved this Constitution by over 60 per cent.

Article 211 talks about how the national Government can borrow; borrowing with discipline. It also talks of legislation, reporting mechanisms to Parliament, which allows openness and transparency as is envisaged under the principles of Public Finance Management. It was realized that any Government must borrow to finance some of the projects. Until we are able to walk on our own, we shall keep crawling.

The Kshs10.48 trillion both domestic and external public debt is not a creation of Kenya Kwanza Government.

Unfortunately, Sen. Sifuna has walked out. The mess we are trying to work on was built over the years after Independence.

Madam Temporary Speaker, the Kenya Kwanza Manifesto you steered as one of its midwives highlights the issue of fiscal discipline. It is good to borrow, but we must be disciplined, prudent, account for every shilling, dollar, or whatever currency it is, that we borrow to finance projects. We are aware that the money being borrowed both locally and externally is meant for development of this country.

I thank the President for making history today. The signing of the Affordable Housing Bill into an Act of Parliament is one of the monumental times in this country.

Sen. Lemaletian was at a social function in Samburu County. I do not know whether it was Principal Secretary Ololtuaa's homecoming. She requested that a road be constructed in Samburu County. Where will the money come from? We must borrow.

When we raise taxes, the same people who are busy shouting loudest here and mourning than the bereaved are the ones saying that we should not overtax Kenyans. However, when they go to podiums, they say; Rais tunaomba. My apologies for mixing languages. They say, Mr. President, we are requesting. I am trying to justify why the Government must borrow.

The moment you tax Kenyans, Sen. Oketch Gicheru, with his litany of political ideologies, will be on the road stating that we should not tax Kenyans. However, they will complain that the Government has not developed Nyatike in Migori County and that they need roads and bursaries.

Governors are on our necks, stating they need Kshs450 billion for counties through equitable shareable revenue. In this financial year, our fiscal deficit is over Kshs700 billion. In short, we should allow the Government to borrow.

I am happy that we amended Section 50 of the Public Finance Management (PFM) Act to move the public debt ceiling to a percentage of GDP. This is significant as stipulated in our manifesto. We are working towards achieving 55 per cent of public debt to the GDP. Currently, the public debt is at 67 per cent against the GDP.

The drafters of Article 211 of the Constitution knew that the Government would borrow to sustain its operations and development. However, we must be disciplined. Corruption is the biggest soft underbelly in this country that is choking both national and county governments. This country would be far if we fought corruption and accounted for every shilling we borrowed.

The country has risen like a phoenix. I am happy that the committee observed in their report that the currencies movement has affected the external public debt. A few months ago, the shilling was “beaten” like a burukenge.

Hon. Senator, that language may not be known. Please use the English version of that word.

Hon. Senator, that language may not be known. Please use the English version of that word.

My apologies, Madam Temporary Speaker. The Kenya shilling was battered at around Kshs150 against the dollar.

As I speak today, it is Kshs133 against the US Dollar. Sen. Eddy and committee Members have observed in their report that we have a challenge in terms of movement of the currency and it is very important.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I am happy with the stakeholders on the maturity of Eurobond and the movement of currency that Sen. Eddy and the rest have observed. It is very important that they have observed that. This report is wonderful. Just as my colleague Senator who just contributed, I am only worried about the many stakeholders who made nice recommendations, including, the ICPAC.

I hope they will bring this proposal of sinking fund to ensure that the country sets aside funds in the year leading to debt maturity. Therefore, you also need to consider Public-Private Partnership (PPP) as a form of finance development expenditure. Although this Expressway was through PPP, when it was conceptualized, it was Kshs30 billion. By the time it was complete, it was over Kshs70 billion.

However, as we do PPP in terms of development expenditure, we must agree. The people who run this Expressway - yesterday yours truly was transiting thorough the city, and within six minutes from Westlands up to Haile Selassie, I paid Kshs250. Can you believe that no one knows how many vehicles go through this Expressway? How much is paid? Who is the owner of the Moja Expressway or body that collects that money?

Therefore, even as we do PPPs, we must be very careful so that we do not auction our country. The contract that was signed is skewed. As we push for PPP, even in development of water, for instance, the one we are doing dams like Mwache, Karimenu 1, I think Karimenu II has not started and many other projects that we are doing under PPPs, we must be very careful, so that we do auction this country.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I remember when Kenya Airways (KQ) was to be nationalized, alongside this Expressway, we must be told how much they are collecting, how many vehicles and how much are they collecting against the debt that we borrowed to build this Nairobi Expressway. So that, they do not demand for a pound of flesh as William Shakespeare in the Merchant of Venice.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

Sen. Wambua, what is your point of order?

I thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I have been trying to catch your eye.

I have heard Sen. Cherarkey, repeatedly referring to our country being auctioned. In the same sentence, he is talking about the Expressway.

A few minutes ago, he was speaking on behalf of the Executive. When he says that the country is being auctioned, we are likely to believe him. Can he clarify, that as he speaks and pretends to speak for the Executive? Has the Executive actioned this country through the Expressway?

Sen. Wambua, what then is your point of order? That is not a point of order. I overrule.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, some of us are old Members in this House. If you want us to just refer to point of orders, then I will refer you to Standing Order No.105 on statement of facts. However, let us not kill debates by always pushing Members to refer to point of orders.

The Member for Nandi has made a very serious statement on our country being auctioned through the Expressway project.

I know last week some of the Members were on their way to Shanghai. I heard of what happened, but I do not want to refer.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I note the change on the seat. I said, maybe because of PPPs agreement. Sen. Wambua has been with me the longest in this House and I wish him well as he transits to be the Kitui Governor. What I wanted to know is the contents.

Sen. Wambua knows that the conceptualisation of the current expressway was not a Kenya Kwanza Government project. It was in that ‘Handshake Government’ in the previous year, with His Excellency Stephen Kalonzo Musyoka and the rest of Azimio members.

What I am saying is “maybe auctioned.” That is why, even as we push for Arror Dam, Kimwarer Dam, Gitare Reservoir, Mwache, Karemeno and other major projects to go through PPP agreements. My argument is that, as we do PPPs, we must be very careful so that we do not end up auctioning the country. That is what I said.

I was giving an example. How many of us know what Kenya Moja, which runs expressway, collects? They have increased the charges. The other day I saw the Cabinet Secretary saying they should increase. Within six minutes I had paid Kshs250. What will happen to ordinary Kenyans that use that expressway? Are we trying to define Kenyans in to class? That is my argument. We must be very careful.

There is a book called The Merchant of Venice by William Shakespeare, which says that they can come for your pound of flesh if you do not pay. I am happy the country has been able to service its public debt, both domestic and externally. If we had not serviced, as The Merchant of Venice in William Shakespeare says, they would come for our pound of flesh. We are not interested because if come, we will go the Sri Lanka way.

I know last week some of the Members were on their way to Shanghai. I heard of what happened, but I do not want to refer.

deficit, some local financial institutions hike their interest rates. Currently, local farmers and businessmen are borrowing money at rates of about 20 per cent and above.

We, therefore, need to be very clear on how to better manage our finances as a country. The first thing that we need to ask is what the deficit is. I see that the Committee on Finance and Budget has indicated the deficit to be about Kshs739 billion. They have said that the Government will borrow 55 per cent of this internationally and 45 per cent of this locally.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we have this deficit, and we have to be prudent in terms of our management of the country’s debt because if you set up, we change. I remember in the last Parliament, we were here with some Members who are current Cabinet Secretaries like my friend, Hon. Murkomen. He was completely against the increase of the debt ceiling. However, now it has cleverly been changed from a particular figure to a percentage of the GDP.

Let us be very sober in our discussions. Is the GDP set or is it a moving target? I have looked at this report and it says that by June 2023, it was about 70.8 per cent of the GDP and the nominal amount was Kshs10.278 trillion. On this, Kshs5.4 trillion was external debt and Kshs4.832 trillion was domestic debt.

They then move quickly and clap for themselves saying that in February 2024, it was at 67.2 per cent, arguing that we have reduced from 70 per cent to 67 per cent and that the nominal amount has gone up to 11.2 per cent. However, what they forgot to say here is that the GDP is a moving target, and it is difficult. You cannot come in and tell us we have it as a figure.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, that is why I am completely against the changing of the debt from a figure to a percentage of the GDP. Understanding finance is the beginning of building a nation. However, I tend to believe that sometimes, we speak from both sides of our mouths - You say that you want to help yet at the same time, you are increasing expenditure.

Today, if you ask me what the budget of the State House is, I dare say that it is 50 per cent of our budget deficit. It is about Kshs364 billion. If we care about this country and want to move it far, we should come up with a proper medium-term management debt strategy that allows us to monitor our credit rating worldwide, so that it is not affected. That should be the first thing. First, to monitor our credit rating worldwide so that it is not affected. Second, so that we can lower down the interest rate. Third, so that we can make it affordable for credit, domestically.

What is the first thing we need to do? We need to completely lower the cost of our day-to-day running of the House on the Hill. I would be happy if the President said that today, we are reducing this budget. I heard him in Narok saying that he was going to cut on those spending in parastatals.

It is good. Let us do away with those that are obsolete. Let us not fund them. However, when you live in a glass house; you have to be careful. The budget of Statehouse is unbearable; we are not able to manage it. That is issue number one.

I am happy that my good friend the Senate Majority Leader has just walked in. Two, we need to be creative. I heard the Cabinet Secretary for Treasury and Planning and my good friend, hon. Mudavadi talking about the new strategies that the Government is

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I will take very few minutes to try and demystify this Medium-Term Debt Management Strategy.

I begin by thanking the Committee on Finance and Budget for doing a fantastic job. They have always been diligent in terms of trying to make sense of all these things.

I think it behooves us as a House to try and use very simple terms for Kenyans out there to understand what exactly we are talking about. When you talk about Medium Term Debt Management Strategy, it is important for us to understand the consequences of it not being managed and implemented effectively.

The Committee - I thank Sen. Faki for moving this report - highlighted on some of the management strategies that the Treasury is putting in place to be able to manage the debt of this country. Some of it might sound as if it is quantum physics, but we will attempt to really put it in simple terms for Kenyans out there to know what we are trying to manage.

Number one, it is the basic thing that affects Kenyans. In this Medium-Term Debt Management Strategy, I see that the Government will be borrowing about 45 per cent of its budget deficit for Financial Year FY2024/2025 from local banks. What does that do to businessmen who are trying to build this economy? It makes it very expensive for them to borrow because financial institutions feel safer lending to the Government through bonds.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the first question you must ask and Kenyans must understand this, is that there are laws that we pass here that allow us to monitor. This is where I will concentrate my submissions on. To monitor this borrowing, the Treasury is required by law to submit reports constantly to both the National Assembly and the Senate on their borrowing.

When they borrow, how does that affect liquidity in the market? Currently, the base interest rate given by the Central Bank of Kenya (CBK) is 13 per cent. Being 13 per cent, banks are allowed by the laws that we make here to increase their lending rates by four per cent.

Based on your credit, you will begin by negotiating and maybe, if you get anything below, you will, probably, get 16.9 per cent. However, is that the reality as we now speak? No. Just because the Government is borrowing locally 45 per cent of its

deficit, some local financial institutions hike their interest rates. Currently, local farmers and businessmen are borrowing money at rates of about 20 per cent and above.

We, therefore, need to be very clear on how to better manage our finances as a country. The first thing that we need to ask is what the deficit is. I see that the Committee on Finance and Budget has indicated the deficit to be about Kshs739 billion. They have said that the Government will borrow 55 per cent of this internationally and 45 per cent of this locally.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we have this deficit, and we have to be prudent in terms of our management of the country’s debt because if you set up, we change. I remember in the last Parliament, we were here with some Members who are current Cabinet Secretaries like my friend, Hon. Murkomen. He was completely against the increase of the debt ceiling. However, now it has cleverly been changed from a particular figure to a percentage of the GDP.

Let us be very sober in our discussions. Is the GDP set or is it a moving target? I have looked at this report and it says that by June 2023, it was about 70.8 per cent of the GDP and the nominal amount was Kshs10.278 trillion. On this, Kshs5.4 trillion was external debt and Kshs4.832 trillion was domestic debt.

They then move quickly and clap for themselves saying that in February 2024, it was at 67.2 per cent, arguing that we have reduced from 70 per cent to 67 per cent and that the nominal amount has gone up to 11.2 per cent. However, what they forgot to say here is that the GDP is a moving target, and it is difficult. You cannot come in and tell us we have it as a figure.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, that is why I am completely against the changing of the debt from a figure to a percentage of the GDP. Understanding finance is the beginning of building a nation. However, I tend to believe that sometimes, we speak from both sides of our mouths - You say that you want to help yet at the same time, you are increasing expenditure.

Today, if you ask me what the budget of the State House is, I dare say that it is 50 per cent of our budget deficit. It is about Kshs364 billion. If we care about this country and want to move it far, we should come up with a proper medium-term management debt strategy that allows us to monitor our credit rating worldwide, so that it is not affected. That should be the first thing. First, to monitor our credit rating worldwide so that it is not affected. Second, so that we can lower down the interest rate. Third, so that we can make it affordable for credit, domestically.

What is the first thing we need to do? We need to completely lower the cost of our day-to-day running of the House on the Hill. I would be happy if the President said that today, we are reducing this budget. I heard him in Narok saying that he was going to cut on those spending in parastatals.

It is good. Let us do away with those that are obsolete. Let us not fund them. However, when you live in a glass house; you have to be careful. The budget of Statehouse is unbearable; we are not able to manage it. That is issue number one.

I am happy that my good friend the Senate Majority Leader has just walked in. Two, we need to be creative. I heard the Cabinet Secretary for Treasury and Planning and my good friend, hon. Mudavadi talking about the new strategies that the Government is

Next is Sen. Orwoba.

I want to reiterate that monitoring of borrowing is important. Even though right now we have managed to reduce it to 67 per cent of the GDP. Our GDP is a moving target; therefore, it can go up to 80 per cent. If that is the case, we will be in serious debt. It is imperative that we try to create a good environment for doing business.

I will be happy if county governments pay their debts when they are due. Right now, we are talking about a deficit of about Kshs739 billion. If you look at county governments combined, they owe about Kshs117 billion. We need to be diligent in analysing budget performances. This idea of relying on the Auditor-General to give us financial statements that give us opinions such as adverse or qualified does not give us a clear picture of how funds are being spent.

How do you explain why a county like Nairobi City County can have pending bills amounting to Kshs103 billion in 10 years of devolution? How do you explain a county like Narok owing about Kshs1.5 billion, yet it is one of the leading counties in terms of own source revenue? We need to change. As we bring amendments to the PFM Act, we need to look at how we can put punitive measures to ensure that we control this issue of pending in the county governments.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, with all those few remarks, I support and hope that we will effectively monitor our mid-term management of debts of this country.

The idea of having a medium-term debt management strategy is not that we stop borrowing completely. It is so that we can ensure that we have - we find a way to ensure that our public debt remains sustainable. In that essence, then I was looking at the report and trying to see what we were doing differently.

I welcome the proposal of ensuring that some of the undisbursed loans should be cancelled so that we can save on the spending or save on the commitment fees of these undisbursed loans.

When you look at that Report as well, it highlights that we are trying to get to a point as a country where we are producers, that we have more outputs. The opposite of what has been happening is that we have been borrowing to subsidise output. We have been borrowing to finance big elephant infrastructural projects that have very little impact on our day-to-day economic affairs, and what we are trying to say now is that we will borrow, but we will prioritise what we are spending our debt on.

In essence, then it is an issue of how we get ourselves out of that hole. First, we must reduce the borrowing, but that has to be a reflection on what our priority areas are. What do we need money for? As I have heard our fellow Senators speaking on infrastructural projects, roads and things like that, we still have to be aware of the fact that we are in serious debt. We have to find a way to, first of all, get to a point where we can breathe as a country.

As I was listening to Sen. Ledama Olekina, speaking of all these projects that should not happen and all these ideas of how we are spending our money, I was wondering whether, with that spirit of his submissions, he would support the privatization of some of the state agencies that are performing very poorly.

You look at state agencies, for instance, Post Bank. Post bank is an asset that is accumulating a lot of expenditure that is unnecessary. It is not generating any revenue as it is supposed to do. Sometimes I wonder and I ask myself, if we will run State agencies as if they do not require to break even or become profitable; then it is a serious conversation that we should have.

We need to get to a place where we should let go of some of these State agencies. This is in realization that they are not being run properly and that a culture of corruption has been inculcated in those agencies. That the State agencies are not adding value to our economy in terms of the revenue that they are supposed to bring in.

I have heard Sen. Cherarkey speak of Kenya Airways. It is the same issue we are having with the Kenyatta International Convention Centre (KICC). The conversation of privatization of some of these state agencies is very imperative.

It also occurs to me that as we highlight those that are known such as Post Bank, KICC, Kenya Airways and all others, which have refused to change and turn their ways to become profitable entities, I would like to bring to the attention of this House to a state agency known as Unclaimed Financial Assets Authority (UFAA).

If the personalities who run this agency understood how hard our President is working to ensure our budgets are making sense and to break even in order to run this country with minimum borrowing, then they would account for Kshs10 billion where we have discrepancies.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I support this Report on Mid-term Debt Management Strategy that has been prepared by the Committee on Finance and Budget.

First, I want to congratulate them for highlighting key aspects that are needed to change how things have been run in this country.

It is unfortunate that we have Members of the Opposition who want to do the same things over and over and expect to have different results. It is not a secret that the hole we found ourselves in is a situation that was created by the previous regime. For avoidance of doubt, these were documents that were tabled in the National Assembly showing that over four months, the former regime under the leadership of President Uhuru Kenyatta was borrowing close to Kshs854 million daily. That money cannot be accounted for. What we know as a country is that we are in debt, and we have to get ourselves out of the situation.

When we had a conversation about the numerical figure that had been put on the debt ceiling, it became clear that we were operating from a point of old ways; where you have a numerical figure and you are told the much that you can borrow without much justification.

We had this conversation on why we were moving from a numerical debt figure into a debt anchor, which was a percentage of the GDP.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, it is because as a country, we are also alive to the fact that we intend to move the economy to a place where we can break even and we might not even require to borrow as heavily as possible. In that sense, we passed and changed the policy so that we can have a debt anchor as our guiding line in terms of our debt management.

The idea of having a medium-term debt management strategy is not that we stop borrowing completely. It is so that we can ensure that we have - we find a way to ensure that our public debt remains sustainable. In that essence, then I was looking at the report and trying to see what we were doing differently.

I welcome the proposal of ensuring that some of the undisbursed loans should be cancelled so that we can save on the spending or save on the commitment fees of these undisbursed loans.

When you look at that Report as well, it highlights that we are trying to get to a point as a country where we are producers, that we have more outputs. The opposite of what has been happening is that we have been borrowing to subsidise output. We have been borrowing to finance big elephant infrastructural projects that have very little impact on our day-to-day economic affairs, and what we are trying to say now is that we will borrow, but we will prioritise what we are spending our debt on.

In essence, then it is an issue of how we get ourselves out of that hole. First, we must reduce the borrowing, but that has to be a reflection on what our priority areas are. What do we need money for? As I have heard our fellow Senators speaking on infrastructural projects, roads and things like that, we still have to be aware of the fact that we are in serious debt. We have to find a way to, first of all, get to a point where we can breathe as a country.

As I was listening to Sen. Ledama Olekina, speaking of all these projects that should not happen and all these ideas of how we are spending our money, I was wondering whether, with that spirit of his submissions, he would support the privatization of some of the state agencies that are performing very poorly.

You look at state agencies, for instance, Post Bank. Post bank is an asset that is accumulating a lot of expenditure that is unnecessary. It is not generating any revenue as it is supposed to do. Sometimes I wonder and I ask myself, if we will run State agencies as if they do not require to break even or become profitable; then it is a serious conversation that we should have.

We need to get to a place where we should let go of some of these State agencies. This is in realization that they are not being run properly and that a culture of corruption has been inculcated in those agencies. That the State agencies are not adding value to our economy in terms of the revenue that they are supposed to bring in.

I have heard Sen. Cherarkey speak of Kenya Airways. It is the same issue we are having with the Kenyatta International Convention Centre (KICC). The conversation of privatization of some of these state agencies is very imperative.

It also occurs to me that as we highlight those that are known such as Post Bank, KICC, Kenya Airways and all others, which have refused to change and turn their ways to become profitable entities, I would like to bring to the attention of this House to a state agency known as Unclaimed Financial Assets Authority (UFAA).

If the personalities who run this agency understood how hard our President is working to ensure our budgets are making sense and to break even in order to run this country with minimum borrowing, then they would account for Kshs10 billion where we have discrepancies.

What is your point of order, Sen. Oketch Gicheru?

the youth and everyone feels the impact of what we are trying to do in this economy, can they also shine the spotlight they want to take to State House in their offices?

How are they dealing with their travel and the resources they have here? If you can say that the State House needs to do the following, we are also looking at you as leadership and senior Members of this House, and the same is reflected in their offices.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, in the spirit of ensuring that we never go back to the horrible situation that the previous regime put us through with the “handshake” Government, we must understand that for us to get to a place where we are not going to borrow any more, we have to pay our taxes so that we can run this country without borrowing.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, you have seen that from last year to now, the fiscal consolidation structure that we have faced as a country is that of increasing taxes. Now, the problem with this is that the moment you take that direction of increasing taxes over reducing expenditure, then the population is bound to suffer.

It is like having a calf and you are trying to get the milk from the cow. You then take even the last bit of the milk that the calf is supposed to survive on so that you cannot milk the cow the next day.

As we are having a conversation around this mid-term debt management strategy, the Senator who moved this Report, which is our report as a committee, Sen. Faki, had talked and alluded to so many parts of what constitutes the strategies that the Government is trying to put in place. Those that we saw as a committee that were important to this particular Report to the House.

My conscience will not rest if I do not prick the conscience of the Senators to be able to start thinking about other ways of ensuring that there is proper fiscal consolidation in this country. This is important because this mid-term debt management strategy comes at a time when we have just passed the BPS.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, when you look at the BPS, there are some areas that we are going to spend money on in this year’s budget. Those are the areas that I think we could rethink, especially on what we want to spend on.

I know Sen. Olekina did allude to this, but I wanted to give it a perspective. For instance, if you talk about the budget that we are going to have in the State House of Kshs352 billion, not Kshs364 as that is what passed in the BPS--- I just wanted to inform my brother Sen. Olekina that it was Kshs352 billion.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, this almost averages an expenditure of between Kshs800 million to Kshs1 billion a day in one single function. That kind of spending is so huge and those are areas that we can easily contract our budget in terms of our fiscal deficit.

Despite the fact that our fiscal deficit is injuring the country, it is actually manageable; that is why we use the words ‘sustainable debt management’. If you think about it, there have been pronouncements from the Executive both in the previous Government and in this Government, that in this country, we are losing Kshs2 billion every day to corruption. If you do the maths, that means in the whole year, we are losing exactly the Kshs700 billion that we want to go out there and borrow. Why are we losing money as a country?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we are losing that money in areas of procurement by the Government where you find that in procurement offices, things are constantly inflated. This one you see with procurement officers and you see them in national Government as well as in county government. Therefore, we end up losing so much money as a country to the extent that if we were to deal with the menace of corruption in this country---

I have seen in some counties, a simple budget such as a budget of domestic travel and subsistence and sometimes hospitality skyrocketing to unimaginable numbers. If there was a way of being able to control that, then you can ensure there is a fiscal consolidation---

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, you asked me what my point of order was when Sen. Orwoba was just about to conclude. Sometimes, I wish you would accede the courage of just giving us this chance because sometimes there are some pronouncements that are made in this House that do disrespect your Chair. You have ruled a number of times that in this House there is no term called the “handshake” Government.

I want to encourage some Members of this House that we are at a point where the country is trying to move forward. We have seen the spirit of bipartisanship in several instances, including last week when we exercised our rights and our responsibility as a House with respect to the Kisii impeachment case. You saw amazing bipartisanship when this House rose above any kind of party positions to speak to the nation on some issues.

I want to encourage my sister, Sen. Orwoba - through the Chair because now I missed the point of order - that these statements that tend to polarize the House are very unnecessary, especially when you look at what we are discussing now, which is the issue of managing our debt as a country.

This is a very important issue that I wanted to chime in. I would have wished to have spoken almost last on this matter, given that I sit in that Committee that drafted this report with the diligence and keenness it deserves.

I have seen several concerns being raised in the House; some from my side of the House. I heard Sen. Sifuna talking about the issue of including the voices of the ICPAK in the conversation that applies to this debt management strategy as well as other Senators from the other side, including Sen. Cherarkey who raised the same.

As a Committee, we did a lot of work in trying to consider a number of these ideas. We find ourselves in an important place as a country. We need to rethink almost every single time, almost every single month how we manage our debt.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, when you are faced with an accumulation of debt to the level that we see our country being faced with, the most obvious strategy is always fiscal consolidation. The idea is that you must contract your fiscal space.

There are several strategies that the committee pondered in the response to the National Treasury. The National Treasury composition is always a hybrid one. However, given what we are facing in the country today, it is either you choose to cut your expenses as a Government or you are faced with the other angle of increasing taxes.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, you have seen that from last year to now, the fiscal consolidation structure that we have faced as a country is that of increasing taxes. Now, the problem with this is that the moment you take that direction of increasing taxes over reducing expenditure, then the population is bound to suffer.

It is like having a calf and you are trying to get the milk from the cow. You then take even the last bit of the milk that the calf is supposed to survive on so that you cannot milk the cow the next day.

As we are having a conversation around this mid-term debt management strategy, the Senator who moved this Report, which is our report as a committee, Sen. Faki, had talked and alluded to so many parts of what constitutes the strategies that the Government is trying to put in place. Those that we saw as a committee that were important to this particular Report to the House.

My conscience will not rest if I do not prick the conscience of the Senators to be able to start thinking about other ways of ensuring that there is proper fiscal consolidation in this country. This is important because this mid-term debt management strategy comes at a time when we have just passed the BPS.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, when you look at the BPS, there are some areas that we are going to spend money on in this year’s budget. Those are the areas that I think we could rethink, especially on what we want to spend on.

I know Sen. Olekina did allude to this, but I wanted to give it a perspective. For instance, if you talk about the budget that we are going to have in the State House of Kshs352 billion, not Kshs364 as that is what passed in the BPS--- I just wanted to inform my brother Sen. Olekina that it was Kshs352 billion.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, this almost averages an expenditure of between Kshs800 million to Kshs1 billion a day in one single function. That kind of spending is so huge and those are areas that we can easily contract our budget in terms of our fiscal deficit.

Despite the fact that our fiscal deficit is injuring the country, it is actually manageable; that is why we use the words ‘sustainable debt management’. If you think about it, there have been pronouncements from the Executive both in the previous Government and in this Government, that in this country, we are losing Kshs2 billion every day to corruption. If you do the maths, that means in the whole year, we are losing exactly the Kshs700 billion that we want to go out there and borrow. Why are we losing money as a country?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we are losing that money in areas of procurement by the Government where you find that in procurement offices, things are constantly inflated. This one you see with procurement officers and you see them in national Government as well as in county government. Therefore, we end up losing so much money as a country to the extent that if we were to deal with the menace of corruption in this country---

I have seen in some counties, a simple budget such as a budget of domestic travel and subsistence and sometimes hospitality skyrocketing to unimaginable numbers. If there was a way of being able to control that, then you can ensure there is a fiscal consolidation---

Hon. Members, it is now 6.30 p.m. time to adjourn the Senate. The Senate, therefore, stands adjourned until tomorrow Wednesday, 20th March, 2024 at 9.30 a.m.

Sen. Eddy, when we resume tomorrow, you will still have 12 minutes of your time to contribute to the Motion.

The Senate rose at 6.30 p.m.