Tuesday, 10th June 2025

Hon. Members, there is no quorum in the House. Serjeant-at-Arms, ring the Quorum Bell for 10 minutes.

Order Hon. Members. We have quorum to transact business. Clerk-at-the-Table, proceed.

Leader of the Majority Party.

Hon. Speaker, I beg to lay the following papers on the Table:

Reports of the Auditor-General and Financial Statements for the year ended 30th June 2024, and the certificates therein in respect of:

Thank you. Chairperson of National Government Constituencies Development Fund (NG-CDF) Committee. Hon. Musa Sirma. Hon. Mwalyo, go ahead.

Hon. Speaker, I beg to lay the following Paper on the Table:

Have you finished? Thank you. Next Order. Hon. Joshua Mwalyo, give your Notice of Motion. Are you no longer holding briefs for the Chairperson?

I am still holding brief for the Chairman.

Go ahead

Hon. Speaker, I would like to give notice of Motion on the ….

It is not a matter of liking. You beg to give notice of the Motion.

Hon. Speaker, I beg to give notice of the following Motion:

Thank you. Next. Hon. Mwalyo, I have been advised that what you said does not amount to giving notice of a Motion. Can you go and repeat for the record? You are a senior Member of this House. You should not be caught in this kind of thing.

Hon. Speaker, I would like to give notice ….

Order, Hon. Mwalyo! You say: “I beg to give notice of the following Motion…”

Hon. Speaker, I beg to give notice of the following Motion:

THAT, this House adopts the Report of the Committee on National Government Constituencies Development Fund on fifty-one constituency committees laid on the Table of the House on Tuesday, 10th June 2025 and, pursuant to the provisions of section 43 (4) of the National Government Constituencies Development Fund Act, Cap. 414A and paragraphs 5 (2) and (10)

of the National Government Constituencies Development Fund Regulations, approves the following list of nominees for appointment to the National Government Constituency Development Fund Committees –

Thank you, Hon. Speaker.

Thank you, Hon. Mwalyo.

Jared Okello is not present.

Umulkher Harun?

Hon. Speaker, pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order 44 (2) (c) , I wish to request for a Statement from the Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Administration and Internal Security regarding the disappearance of one Mr Abdirizak Mohamed Yale.

On 28th September 2023, Mr Abdirizak Mohamed Yale of ID No. 40063840, a resident of Garissa County, was allegedly abducted in Nairobi under unclear circumstances. The incident was reported at the Nairobi West Patrol Base under OB No.14/30/92023. He has neither been traced nor presented before any court of law since then.

Article 29 of the Constitution guarantees the freedom of security of each individual and includes the right of an individual not to be detained without trial. The fact that the whereabouts and safety of Mr Abdirizak remain unknown has caused anxiety amongst his family on the possibility of him suffering a violation of his constitutional rights.

It is against this background that I request for a statement from the Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Administration and Internal Security on the following:

Thank you, Hon. Umulkher. Hon. Tongoyo, that request is to your Committee. When can you bring a response? In two weeks’ time? Were you even listening?

Hon. Speaker, I was a bit disrupted. Nevertheless, I beg for your indulgence. I have 17 requests for statements that have not yet been responded to.

We are dealing with only one – what Hon. Umulkher has requested.

Hon. Speaker, what I was trying to ask for is this: If you agree with us, that I write to the Cabinet Secretary to appear before the Committee and Members because there are so many requests. That way, we will expedite all of them, if possible.

Why not? Go ahead and do so.

We can combine all of them for the Cabinet Secretary to respond to them next week.

Thank you.

Hon. Yakub Adow Kuno, Member for Bura.

Hon. Gitonga Mukunji.

Hon. Speaker, pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order 44 (2) (c) , I request for a statement from the Chairperson of the Departmental

Committee on Health regarding the operationalisation of the rehabilitation fund in the country.

addiction, support, training and deployment of personnel involved in the rehabilitation of such individuals, and to facilitate community-based programmes for prevention, treatment and reintegration.

The country continues to grapple with a rising tide of drug and substance abuse that has a devastating impact on individuals, families and communities across the nation. In recent years, an increase in the availability and consumption of illicit brews and narcotic drugs, particularly in vulnerable and undeserved areas, has compounded the situation. The proliferation of those harmful substances, often sold and consumed without regulation, has led to severe health challenges, increased rates of addiction, and broader social instability.

While the Government has enacted punitive regulations and carried out enforcement operations targeting drug trafficking and illicit alcohol, there remains a significant gap in rehabilitation, treatment and reintegration services for persons struggling with substance use disorders.

Despite the clear provisions of the law, the fund has not been operationalised to date, thereby impeding the development and expansion of rehabilitation infrastructure and services that are urgently needed to respond to the national drug and substance abuse crisis. Further, Article 43(1) (a) of the Constitution guarantees every person the right to the highest attainable standard of health, which includes mental health care and support for individuals with substance dependency. The continued delay in activating the rehabilitation fund undermines the fulfilment of that constitutional right.

It is against this background that I request for a statement from the Chairperson of the

Chair of Departmental Committee on Health, when can you bring a response?

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I think we need, at least, two weeks. I know the complexity of the issues involved. Therefore, we should be able to get a result within, at least, two weeks.

Right, two weeks. Thank you. Hon. Machua Waithaka, Member for Kiambu.

Hon. Speaker, pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order 44 (2) (c) , I request for a statement from the Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Sports and Culture regarding sponsorship and nurturing of a top amateur golfer in Kenya, Mr Michael Karanga.

Mr Michael Karanga is a 30-year-old amateur golfer who hails from Ndumberi Ward in Kiambu Constituency. He has been playing golf for the past 10 years. Over this period, Mr. Karanga has played in international games and performed exceptionally well, earning the name of ‘Golfer of the Year’ for two years in a row. Last year, he emerged top golfer during the Ghana Opens in Accra. He has also played in many countries, including the United Kingdom,

Portugal, South Africa, Rwanda, Jordan and Egypt. Currently, he is ranked 76th in the world men’s golf amateur ranking and 4th in Africa.

Hon. Speaker, despite that sterling performance and remarkable achievements, the Government is yet to show any commitment in sponsoring him. Golf is an industry and it provides an opportunity for the Government to support an upcoming top golfer. Remarkably, Mr. Karanga is the founder of the Michael Karanga Foundation, which supports and trains over 400 primary and secondary students in public schools through a golf training program.

Hon. Speaker, it is against this background that I request for a statement from the Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Sports and Culture on the following:

Thank you, Hon. Waithaka. Chairperson, Departmental Committee on Sports and Culture, Hon. Dan Wanyama, when can you bring a response?

Hon. Speaker, I can give a response in two weeks’ time.

Hon. Caleb Amisi, I am sorry I skipped your request for statement and went to the next one. I had not noticed your presence and thought you were not here.

Thank you Hon. Speaker. I rise, pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order 44 (2) (c) , to request for a statement from the Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Lands regarding the delayed compensation to the Sokoni Community Development Organisation Project in Kitale Town for land compulsorily acquired by the Kenya National Highways Authority for the construction of the Kitale-Endebess-Suam (C45) Road Project.

Hon. Speaker, on 14th September 2018, the National Land Commission (NLC) , vide Kenya Gazette Notice No.9488, gazetted the compulsory acquisition of land parcels belonging to the Sokoni Community Development Organization Project in Kitale Town. That acquisition was referenced in subsequent Gazette Notices No.11106 of 26th October 2018, 8484 of 21st October 2020, and 6376 and 6377 of 21st June 2021, to provide procedural updates to the public and the owners regarding the inspection of plans and dates of notices of hearings for compensation claims by the affected persons. In compliance with those notices, the Sokoni Community Development Organization Project submitted its claim for compensation to the National Lands Commission and on 23rd July 2021, the Commission awarded compensation to the owners amounting to Ksh1,928,792. However, up to date, only Ksh964,398 has been paid and the balance of Ksh964,394 remains unpaid, with no clear communication or commitment from the Commission regarding the expected timeline for completion of the payment. This prolonged delay has caused hardship to the members, who were displaced and whose community operations were disrupted. Article 40 (3) of the Constitution provides that if a person should be deprived of property for a public purpose, the Government must make prompt payment in full, of just compensation to the person.

Hon. Speaker, it is against this background that I request for a statement from the Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Lands on the following:

Thank you, Hon. Speaker.

Thank you, Hon. Caleb. Can we have a commitment from the Departmental Committee on Lands? Hon. Nyamoko, when can you bring the response?

We will bring the response in two weeks’ time, Hon. Speaker.

Two weeks. Thank you. Hon. Catherine Omanyo, Women Representative for Busia County.

Hon. Speaker, pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order 44 (2) (c) , I rise to request for a statement from the Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Transport and Infrastructure regarding the urgent need for expansion of the Busia–Kisumu Road and the Bungoma–Malaba Road to dual carriageways.

Hon. Speaker, the Busia–Kisumu Road and the Bungoma–Malaba Road are vital transport networks in Western Kenya, linking key commercial towns and serving as transit routes for goods and services through the Busia and Malaba border points to and from the neighbouring countries, including Uganda, the Democratic Republic of Congo, Rwanda and Burundi. Notably, those major roads facilitate regional trade, contribute to local economies and are integral in sustaining Kenya’s position as a transport hub within the Northern Corridor.

Hon. Speaker, the poor state and congestion resulting from the narrowness of the said roads continue to cause accidents and prolonged truck queues as they approach the Busia and Malaba border posts, affecting trade and transport. Further, the lengthy presence of truck drivers in those regions, particularly in the Busia–Sega section of the Kisumu-Busia Road, has escalated cases of immorality and teenage pregnancies, posing serious social concerns. There is an urgent need to expand those key roads and designate truck parking yards so as to ease congestion, improve safety, and boost trade and economic growth in the region.

Hon. Speaker, it is against this background that I request for a statement from the Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Transport and Infrastructure on the following:

Chairperson, Departmental Committee on Transport and Infrastructure, Hon. GK, when can you bring a response? Give him a microphone.

Hon. Speaker, we will bring a response in two weeks’ time

Two weeks. Thank you.

Hon. Jared Okello.

Thank you very much, Hon. Speaker, for giving me this opportunity. Allow me to make it clear that…

Hon. Jared Okello, you came late. This is the second round we are calling for that. You start by apologising to the House.

That is what I am coming to, Hon. Speaker.

Are you starting with that?

That is exactly what I was coming to. Hon. Speaker, I apologise for coming late. You had called me before and I had not appeared because of some unavoidable circumstances. I am reading this statement on behalf of Hon. Eve Obara, the Member for Kabondo Kasipul, who is out of the country. Hon. Speaker, pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order 44 (2) (c) , I wish to request for a statement from the Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Administration and Internal Security regarding the circumstances surrounding the tragic death of Mr Albert Ojwang’, a teacher and social media influencer from Kabondo Kasipul Constituency, while in custody at the Central Police Station, Nairobi City County. On the 7th of June this year of our Lord 2025, Mr Albert Ojwang’ was seized from his home in Kakoth Village, Kokwanyo Kakelo Ward, Kabondo Kasipul Constituency in Homa Bay County by officers from the Directorate of Criminal Investigations (DCI) . He was reportedly arrested over allegations of publishing defamatory content online. Mr Ojwang’ was initially detained at Mawegu Police Station before being transferred over 385 kilometres to Nairobi, where he was detained at Central Police Station. This situation raises concerns regarding the legality of the transfer of Mr Ojwang’ from Homa Bay County to Nairobi. Section 71 of the Criminal Procedure Code (Cap. 75) provides that an offence must be tried by a court within the local limits of the jurisdiction where it was committed, or where the accused person was apprehended. No court order appears to have been issued to authorise the transfer, as required by law, and the National Police Service Standing Orders. Even more distressing is the report that while at Central Police Station, Mr Ojwang’ was placed in a solitary cell, where he allegedly hit his head against the wall. He was then rushed to Mbagathi County Referral Hospital, where he was pronounced dead on arrival. The circumstances surrounding his death remain highly suspicious. Mr Ojwang’ was the only son, and his death has left his family devastated. Article 21 of the Constitution places an obligation on the State to observe, respect, protect and fulfil the rights and fundamental freedoms of all individuals, including suspects in police custody. The unexplained death of Mr Ojwang’ in a police cell demands full disclosure, accountability and redress. Hon. Speaker, it is against this background that I request for a statement from the Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Administration and Internal Security on the following:

Hon. Members, Hon. Passaris had also filed a request to seek a similar statement. Before I give you an opportunity to joyride, I acknowledge, in the Speaker's Gallery, Nairobi Muslim Academy from Lang’ata Constituency, Nairobi County; ACK Junior School from Starehe Constituency, Nairobi City County and Gakoe Mixed Secondary School from Gatundu North Constituency, Kiambu County. Proceed Hon. Passaris.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. First, allow me to pass my condolences to the family members of the late Albert Ojwang’. The autopsy results are already out, and it shows that he went through a brutal death. It is really sad. We are in a month when we want reparation and healing. We want this country to move forward. I know that this is going to anger many Kenyans. What I ask for is absolute expedition of the investigation and for the police to for once to stand for the people of Kenya, stand for justice, and to change their ways. If we try and play around with this case, it will not be good. The Rt. Hon. Raila Odinga has issued a statement on the same. It is time for us to address the wrongs and the rot that we have in the National Police Service even though not all policemen are bad. I want people to know. I have seen on social media people calling for the burning of police stations and attacking politicians. I want Kenyans to understand that we are in this together. The Police Force is not entirely bad. The Police Force is there to serve us. So, as we give condolences, as we ask for investigation...

Under the current Constitution, it is no longer a force but a service.

Yes, it is actually Utumishi kwa Wote. I understand that, Hon. Speaker. Thanks for the correction. I just pray that the family finds peace, and that we can do something right now to bring justice to that young man and all the lost souls that we have had in our country. Police brutality should end. The police should do what they are mandated to do. They must do so within the rule of the law as mandated and asked for by the President. Thank you, Hon. Speaker.

Hon. Bowen. Is it on the same matter?

Hon. Speaker, I want to support the statement by the hon. chaled.

Which chairlady?

The Hon. Member, Hon. Speaker.

Hon. Jared Okello is not a lady.

Hon. Speaker, it is very sad that a young man who just wrote something on social media had to die. In Kerio Valley, bandits are brutalising people, killing women and children, and there is nothing that is happening to them.

Someone has lost his life just because he wrote something on social media. I want to ask the security heads in the country to take this matter seriously. I condole with the family of Mr Ojwang’ and ask IPOA to ensure that they investigate this matter and bring those who were involved to book. Many people from the North Rift are suffering in the hands of bandits and yet, the police are just joyriding around town here looking for what people are writing on X and Facebook. They are not going for those bandits. They must take their work seriously.

Thank you. Hon. Millie Odhiambo.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker, for giving me this opportunity. I also wish to send my condolences to the family of the late Ojwang’ on his unfortunate demise in the hands of some rogue officers. Indeed, it is unfortunate that, at this time, after we passed a new Constitution making the police force a service, we still have people who are behaving in the manner that we have seen. I would want to call on the President to ensure that the police who are behind the death of Ojwang’, who are tainting the name of the police, are charged and prosecuted. It should be fast, because justice delayed is justice denied. The problem we have seen in this country is that, sometimes, people are arrested but when the anger goes down, the case disappears. To show seriousness, this case should be fast-tracked. If IPOA is not in a position to investigate, the Government should employ the services of external forces and investigators. This is something that the Government has occasionally done and for us to have confidence, they may need to consider it. This is because it is really unfortunate that a young person should be killed in such a manner.

Sometimes, I understand the frustration among members of the public. However, Members of Parliament are not the ones who are responsible for the death. We are also feeling the same pain. Those of us who come from Homa Bay County feel more pain because we do not want people in our county, or even Kenyans, to be killed. I insist that people from Homa Bay County should not be killed. This is because just the other day, we lost Hon. Ong’ondo Were and now we have lost another man, who is almost a neighbour to the late Member of Parliament. We would like to see seriousness in the way the Government will deal with this matter.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker.

Hon. Murugara.

Thank you very much, Hon. Speaker. Allow me to also join the rest of the House and Kenyans in conveying condolences to the family of the late Albert Ojwang’. It is, indeed, sad to lose such a young man under unclear circumstances. This has put the integrity of our National Police Service (NPS) into question, especially when they give a statement which, on the face of it, does not make sense. We urge the NPS, IPOA and everyone who is investigating the case to do the best they can to unravel the mystery so that justice is served to the family of that young man who passed away under those circumstances.

Sometimes, we wonder why the NPS conducts itself in the way it has done. What begs the question is whether the syllabus has changed since the colonial days. We know very well that during the state of emergency, we had many extrajudicial killings. Has this been carried on to date? Are there officers, whether senior or junior, who are giving instructions to have young men executed? These are the questions we should be asking ourselves. It is high time we looked at the qualifications and training of police officers. There may be something wanting. We should scrutinize the entry point level and the training that police officers get at Kiganjo Police Training College. Times have changed and we must now live to the expectations. Justice must be done at all times. We must condemn extrajudicial killings to the fullest. It should not be condoned. This House should continue to condemn it day-in, day-out.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker.

Hon. Members, this is by all means a very serious matter. Yesterday, yours truly here and others spoke to it in the same manner that you are speaking. I wish to inform the Chairman of the Departmental Committee on Administration and Internal Security that this matter is causing a lot of anxiety. The explanations coming out, for those of you who have read the book Biko, sounds like a Steve Biko story.

I direct the Chairman of the Departmental Committee on Administration and Internal Security to bring a preliminary report and statement to the House on Thursday at 2.30 p.m., to inform the House and the country on the progress so far made in the investigations. We also need some response to the issues raised by Hon. Jared Okello, on behalf of Hon. Eve Obara, Hon. Passaris, Hon. Millie, Hon. Murugara and Hon. Bowen. I am aware that Thursday is Budget Day, but we will have half an hour before it starts. I know many Members have issues on this but hold your horses. When the statement comes on Thursday, I will give you an opportunity to contribute.

Hon. Tongoyo.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I am well guided. Just like the rest of us, and a majority of Kenyans, I would like to pass my condolences to the family. It is extremely unfortunate that a young Kenyan dies in the hands of the police where he is supposed to be safe.

Hon. Speaker, I would like to confirm to you, to the House and to Kenyans that we are all disturbed. This morning, we wrote letters, through the Clerk of the National Assembly, summoning the Inspector-General of Police and IPOA to brief the Committee, on behalf of this House, on what happened and the update on the investigations. This will ensure that by afternoon, as you have instructed, I will give a preliminary report on the same.

I encourage you not to wait for them to brief you. You should interrogate them instead.

Yes, Hon. Speaker. If possible, the Members who raised the issues here should also come and support the Committee because heads must roll.

Thank you. Bring your interim report on Thursday at 2.30 p.m.

I am much obliged, Hon. Speaker.

Hon. Members, in the Public Gallery, we have students from the following schools:

Hon. Tongoyo, respond to the Statement by Hon. Dorice Donya.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. Before, I respond to the request for statement by Hon. Donya, I seek your indulgence. I also have the response you had directed me to bring last week – that, we update the House on the progress of investigation on the alleged abduction of Hon. George Koimburi, the Member for Juja.

Hon. Tongoyo, today we have the Committee of Supply, which we will move into at 3.30 p.m. I can see you with volumes of files on Hon. Koimburi’s matter.

However, you will respond to that tomorrow. Go ahead and respond to Hon. Donya in the shortest time possible because we have to go into Committee at 3.30 p.m. Bring your volumes tomorrow.

(Laughter)

I am well guided, Hon. Speaker. I will now respond to the Statement sought by the Member for Kisii County on the tragic death of Ms Sylvia Kemunto and the escalating cases of gender-based violence. The Member sought to know:

Sultan Hamud Township, Makueni. While at his rural home, in the company of his father and mother, news came up on national television about the discovery of a body within Multimedia University rooftop reservoir tank. It was at this point that he confessed to how he killed the deceased before dumping the body in a water tank. Subsequently, his parents escorted him to Sultan Hamud Police Station, where he was booked under OB No.4/4/4/2025.

The DCI home site detectives collected the suspect from Sultan Hamud Police Station. During interrogation, he confessed to the murder and also led investigators to the church where he had given Silvia’s mobile phone as an offering. DNA samples from both the suspect and the deceased were submitted to the Government Chemist for forensic analysis. On 8th April 2025, a post-mortem was conducted by the Chief Government Pathologist, Dr Johansen Oduor, which revealed that the cause of death was asphyxia along with blunt force injury to the head. Investigation established that Eric Mutinda acted alone, with the motive identified as a relationship-related dispute. He was subsequently transferred to Capitol Hill Police Station and later presented before Kibera Law Courts for a miscellaneous application. The court granted 21 days custodial order to allow the completion of investigations.

The DCI homicide team is working in close collaboration with the Office of the Director Public Prosecutions (ODPP) to ensure appropriate charges are preferred on the suspect. The matter was scheduled for mention on 28th April 2025 when the suspect, Eric Mutinda, was formally charged with the offense of murder contrary to section 203 as read together with section 204 of the Penal Code.

I think that should be sufficient, Hon. Speaker.

Thank you. Hon. Dorice Donya, this matter appears to be a homicide case already before court. Therefore, you should tread carefully so that what you say and ask now does not prejudice the criminal proceedings before the court. You may seek a clarification if you wish.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I am well conversant with that. I did media law. What the Chair has said is correct. I have been following up on the matter. The statement has captured the issue very well. I appreciate the response.

People do not know the direct line for gender-based violence (GBV) cases. Sometimes, they want to report GBV cases, but they do not know the number. So, if I can share the number, it can help. The police should also expedite GBV matters. The number is 1195. It is simple and it works.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. Hon. Speaker Thank you, Hon. Dorice Donya.

Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Housing, Urban Planning and Public Works and Chairperson of the Committee

Hon. Speaker, I beg to move the following procedural Motion:

THAT, pursuant to Standing Order 30(3) (a), this House orders that, should the time appointed for adjournment of the House be reached before conclusion of business under Order No.10, the Sitting shall stand extended until the conclusion of the business appearing under Order No.10 (Committee of Supply). This is one of the prime duties that we must conduct as a House.

And this is his forte. He loves the Committee of Supply. So, prepare your guns.

This is a very important debate and work. The Budget cannot be without the Committee of Supply. The money we will appropriate here cannot be issued out unless we have a Committee of Supply session to supply every department with the funds they require to run the next financial year. This is a noble duty. Therefore, we request that in the event that we do not finish by close of business today, we extend the time to ensure that we complete the business and ensure that we leave today when we have supplied all the money.

I know Hon. Millie Odhiambo-Mabona participates very much in this debate. Therefore, I request her to second me on this procedural Motion to extend the sitting time until the conclusion of the debate.

Hon. Millie.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I do second. This is a very straightforward procedural Motion to extend our sitting time.

I do second.

Thank you.

Members on your feet, take your seats.

Put the Question!

Should I put the Question?

Yes!

Hon. Members, that means you will go on with the Committee of Supply up to midnight. If you do not finish it tonight, you will continue tomorrow morning. So, we will allow the proceedings to go on up to midnight, which is the end of the day today. One minute past midnight is tomorrow. We will stop the clock at midnight. If you will not have finished, we will continue with the Committee of Supply tomorrow morning because whatever we will be doing will be part of the Budget Highlights that will be read by the Cabinet Secretary for the National Treasury and Economic Planning on Thursday afternoon.

Next Order.

Hon. Speaker…

Hon. G.K, hold your horses. Next Order.

On a point of order, Hon. Chairlady.

Yes, Hon. Oundo.

Hon. Chairlady, thank you for giving me this opportunity. Allow us to ask the Chairperson of the Budget and Appropriations Committee to explain to Kenyans why this Office has close to Ksh3 billion for recurrent expenditure and only Ksh100 million for development. He needs to explain what the Office of the Deputy President does that requires a whopping Ksh3 billion and yet, there are no drugs in hospitals, there is no capitation for schools and people are being killed every day and night. We need an explanation on what this allocation is about.

Thank you, Hon. Chairlady.

Chairperson, Budget and Appropriations Committee, do you want to respond? Before you do so, let me first give an opportunity to Hon. Makali and then I will come to you.

Thank you very much, Hon. Chairlady. I associate myself with Hon. (Dr) Oundo’s comments. Even though I am a Member of the Budget and Appropriations Committee, we have said many times that it is good to get our priorities right. I hope the money allocated here is not what is being distributed to Kenyans all over the country. I believe it will be put to good use because we said harambees are not allowed. I hope this money is not for that purpose even as we support this Vote.

Leader of the Majority Party, do you want to say something? The question was directed to the Chairperson of the Budget and Appropriations Committee. Do you still want to say something, or is it Hon. Baya? If not, Hon. Atandi proceed.

Hon. Chairlady, before I respond, I would like to ask Hon. Tongoyo, the Chairman of the Departmental Committee on Administration and Internal Security, to respond briefly and then I will conclude.

Hon. Tongoyo.

Thank you, Hon. Chairlady. I confirm that Hon. Makali Mulu is a member of the Budget and Appropriations Committee. He was there when I was defending this allocation in the Committee. I confirm to the House and country that the money allocated to this Vote is used prudently. When you compare the money in this Vote for the current office holder versus what was allocated in the previous office holder, it is less by almost 30 per cent. I ask Members to be objective and not bring politics into this. We all know that the current office holder is not the first one to occupy this office. The allocated money is for the good use of the country.

Hon. Atandi, proceed.

On a point of order, Hon. Chairlady.

Let us allow Hon. Atandi to, first, answer.

Thank you, Hon. Chairlady. We have really rationalised this Vote. If you remember, the previous office holder used to have Ksh5 billion in this office. We have only Ksh3 billion today.

This is a constitutional office. The Office of the Deputy President of the Republic of Kenya assists the President of Kenya to run the country. It is not an office where somebody spends money without working. The Deputy President assists the President to manage the affairs of the country. So, this Vote is justified. In fact, the office requires even more money. We rationalised this Vote, in line with the revenue projections that we have at the moment.

Thank you.

On a point of order, Hon. Chairlady.

Hon. Makali, proceed.

Thank you, Hon. Chairlady. Looking at the Programmes under this Vote, like Policy Coordination and Strategy, and General Administration, Planning and Support Services; we need to do better in terms of prioritisation. Even as we support this Vote, some of these programmes do not make a lot of sense to a country which faces a lot of challenges in health and education.

Hon Oundo.

Hon. Chairlady, I find the programmes under this Vote extremely interesting. More so, they contravene the Constitution of Kenya. Article 95 of the Constitution provides that the work of Parliament belongs to Members of Parliament. What exercise are we doing here in this particular office? What kind of legislation is done here, yet most of the Bills that come in this House are under the Leader of the Majority Party? These are duplications and terrible waste of national resources that can be better used to solve the myriad of problems that we have in this country.

Thank you, Hon. Chairlady.

Yes, Hon. Owen Baya.

Hon. Chairlady, Hon. Oundo, the Professor, needs to be educated on how a Bill starts. It is the Office that is mandated to liaise with Parliament. The Bill bears the name of the Leader of the Majority Party. The only mandate of the Leader of the Majority Party is to table it here. There is a whole process that starts from the Cabinet and many other ministries. Before a Government Bill is born to be under the name of the Leader of the Majority Party, it travels through a long journey, and resources are needed for it to become a Bill to be tabled in this House. Even the Bill that we are looking at now has not been prepared by the Leader of the Majority Party. It is a result of whole process.

Hon. Oundo, please, step down the politics. Look at the national agenda. Look at the whole country, and let us move forward, instead of raising mundane issues on an important issue that is called supply.

Hon. Chairlady, I want to educate my brother on what supply is. We will do it. Come and question the Budget. Let us handle the supply.

Put the question.

Hon. Mbui? Let me give a chance to Hon. Nyikal.

Hon. Chairlady, whereas I do not oppose, I think in future, even on this Vote, we should have the programmes. An amount in excess of Ksh8 billion is a lot of money. We need to know what is being done. “State House Affairs” alone is not adequate explanation to the public on what is being done with this money.

Hon. Makali.

Hon. Chairlady, some of us have been in this House for a long time. Even under the Committee of Supply, there is no harm in making observations on the Budget. We want to improve the process. We support the proposed supply to the Vote of State House, but the Deputy Leader of the Majority Party appreciates that we have many mini-state houses in this country. We should ask ourselves whether we are getting value for money. This is what we are saying. Even as we maintain them, can we do due

diligence because they have staff members and everybody? It becomes very expensive. We could make better use of some of these resources. It is not that we are opposing, but these are important observations. As we go into the future, we have a record of what we are saying.

We support.

Hon. Chepkong’a.

Thank you, Hon. Chairlady. I stand to support the supply to this Vote. Hon. Nyikal has just requested; just to know. If you turn to the next page, you will see under State House, for capital expenditure, it is Ksh894 million, which is not a lot of money as compared to recurrent expenditure of Ksh7.6 billion. Most of it is going towards recurrent expenditure. It is not even for development.

I support.

Hon. Members, I will now put the question.

Yes. I did not see you. You do not have your card? Hon. TJ, proceed.

I have my cards. It was just a…

Just press the intervention button.

Yes, Hon. Chairlady. Hon. Nyikal has asked a valid question but, of course, he knows that, for example, members of the Western Caucus last week went to State House. It is public knowledge that they went to State House. That nyama choma costs money.

Yes, nyama choma costs money. Anyway, Hon. Nyikal has asked a valid question. Can all those nyama choma eating sessions be costed so that we know that they cost so much, and chicken and ugali eating sessions cost so much, so that we have a proper programme-based budget?

Thank you, Hon. Members. Hon. Oundo.

Hon. Chairlady, again, let us be very clear. Hon. Baya has misled the country. The Budget is being made now. The other time was just a committee report. Allow us to highlight what we think are areas or points of concern.

While I accept that the presidency needs to run and function so that the country remains united, combining the two – the Deputy President and the President – having recurrent expenditure of close to Ksh11 billion, looks obscene in a situation where we have a tight fiscal space. I hope those who are in charge will save some of that money so that, as Hon. TJ says, we can be given enough nyama choma and tea whenever we visit State House.

Thank you.

Development) during the year ending 30th June 2026 in respect of Vote 1018 (State Department for National Government Coordination).

Hon Wamboka.

As much as we are appropriating these finances to the State Department of Correctional Services, one of the President’s advisors recently made a very dangerous statement – that, people are buying positions to get into the Kenya Prison Service. That is a very dangerous thing. The Government must stop embarrassing itself and give Kenyans what belongs to them, especially young Kenyans who want to join the Prison Service. We plead with the Government to investigate the allegations because the statement was made by a very senior advisor to the President, Hon. Moses Kuria, who said that people are buying recruitment positions into the Kenya Prisons Service.

Thank you.

Thank you very much, Hon. Chairlady. I am quite interested in being updated or apprised on whether we have made provision for issuance of ID cards to students while still in school free of charge in the ensuing Financial Year. I would like to hear that from the Chairperson of the Committee.

Thank you.

Chairperson of Budget and Appropriations Committee, is it you or Hon. Tongoyo? Hon Tongoyo, the question is whether you have provided for ID cards, particularly for students.

We have provided money for the same, but it is never enough. That is why we keep imploring on this House to keep adding resources so that we can provide the same.

Thank you.

Thank you. Hon. Caroli, are you not satisfied?

I am not satisfied. It would have been better if the Chairperson told us how much provision they have made for the issuance of ID cards to students in school, and what the shortfall is so that we can prepare ourselves other than having a generalised answer.

Thank you, Hon. Chairlady.

Member for Kwanza.

Hon. Chairlady, we should be more detailed because we are supplying resources to departments that we know. We want the details of the functions from the Budget and Appropriations Committee. It looks like we are just passing these estimates even without getting the details that involve three or four functions. Can we get each detail from the Budget and Appropriations Committee, program by program, so that we approve whatever is brought to us with the details? We are not going to pass it just because it has come and we have to pass it.

Member for Kwanza, if you look at the Order Paper, some of the last pages have the details explained. State any further explanation you need.

On a point of order, Hon. Chairlady.

Yes, Hon. TJ.

Hon. Chairlady, is the Member for Suba South in order to imply that children in secondary schools should be provided with identity cards? What is the average age of a child in school in the present education system? Is he implying that 15-year-old and 16-year-old children should be given identity cards?

Yes, Hon. Baya.

I want to respond to the Member for Kwanza and contribute to the general debate.

The Committee of Supply has three documents: The first document is what we can see here; the second document is the Second Schedule. Then, there is the Third Schedule. You have to look at all three documents if you want to understand what the Committee of Supply is about so that you do not ask for details. The details are in the Third Schedule.

Let Members look at all the documents so that we move in sync. The Committee of Supply can take longer than necessary if we go the way we are going. It is long and tedious. We need to look at all the documents.

I think I already confirmed that to him.

On a point of order, Hon. Chairlady.

Yes, Hon. Wamboka.

Hon. Chairlady, the budget-making process is very important. It is not right for the Hon. Member to say that we need to go through it quickly. Even if we take a month, we must interrogate the Budget in detail. There is nothing wrong with Hon. Caroli asking for those details. This thing is so bulky. It may take forever if a Member has to, at one point, look at what is being proposed here and then go to the other side of the documents.

Relax, Hon. Baya. We must interrogate the Budget. You are out of order. You have no point.

Hon. Owino, Member for Ndhiwa.

Thank you, Hon. Chairlady. The Hon. Member is misleading us. We are looking at the Second Schedule, which should have the Votes and

Programmes. That is where the problem is. You cannot just write “State House”. It is not a Programme. We need the Programmes spelled out even as we support.

Hon. Members, maybe, there is a fourth document that Members should always look at. It is what was given in the Committee Report.

Yes, Hon. Makali.

Hon. Chairlady, it is important that we get the process right. The country moved from itemised budgeting to programme-based budgeting. Therefore, you must go to the printed books if you want to see the details. You cannot be demanding those things while we are here because we moved from itemised budgeting to programme-based budgeting. That is why we are discussing programmes. You did not want to give me a chance to talk and yet you say that the Deputy Leader of the Majority Party is misleading the House. This is my area of specialisation. You need to consult me on matters of the Budget.

Hon. Caroli, on the issue of identity cards being issued to school children, it is only those who have attained 18 years of age.

That is obvious.

I wanted to confirm that we had allocated Ksh1.6 billion for the issuance of identity cards. I think it is good to report that because I see a majority of Members in the Chamber.

What is your point of order, Hon. Mwenje?

Thank you, Hon. Chairlady. I want to discuss the Ksh127, 091, 374,077 under Vote 1025. We have the Chairman of the Departmental Committee on Administration and Internal Security in the House. One of the issues raised on one of the Votes on Correctional Services is about recruitment of prison constables. Looking at this Vote in detail, there will be recruitment of police officers in 400 sub-counties.

I beg the House to get confirmation from the Chairman that the recruitment of police officers will not be like what happened before. The recruitment should be conducted at sub- county level, and only locals from each sub-county should be eligible for recruitment. Last time, some strangers were brought to my constituency during the recruitment. They were recruited and left with the people who brought them. Can we get assurance? We should not pass this Budget with the recruitment of new police officers in it if we do not get that assurance.

Hon. Oluoch.

Thank you, Hon. Chairlady. I need to get an assurance from the Chairman of the Departmental Committee on Administration and Internal Security as I support the programmes in this Vote. That is as to whether the programme-based Budget - including the additional monies being asked for - includes the recently established police stations. A number of police stations are asking for additional money in the Third Schedule.

I ask this in relation to my neighbouring constituency and other constituencies within Nairobi, where I know that new police stations have been put up and operationalized. Please, confirm that this programme-based Budget has monies allocated to enable new police stations to operate.

I support.

Hon. Shakeel.

Hon. Chairlady, I resoundingly support the proposal. However, as it has been said by others, the Government tells us that recruitment will be in sub-counties. The Government tells us that recruitment will be fair and professionally-conducted and yet, we find those who walk in and disrupt the process. Although this has nothing to do with the Budget, each sub-county should get its fair share of recruitment of qualified police officers.

Those who want to contribute, please, press the intervention button. Proceed, Hon. Johana.

Thank you, Hon. Chairlady. On the issue of recruitment, other than the monies that we are allocating here, it does not make sense for people to pay money to be recruited into the National Police Service. Therefore, the department that deals with recruitment should be made to understand that this year, we do not want any corruption in that particular sector.

Thank you, Hon. Chairlady.

I thought you had spoken to this. Hon. Wamboka, you are out of order. You just need to raise your hand and say you want to speak or press the intervention button. I am not going to have a back and forth with you.

Hon. Mbui.

Thank you, Hon. Chairlady. I only have one concern on the National Police Service (NPS) budget. In June last year and June of this year, the NPS spent taxpayers’ money to kill our youths. This time, they have also killed Mr Albert Ojwang’. Even as we appropriate money for the NPS, let them not use it to kill our children.

Thank you, Hon. Chairlady.

Thank you. Hon. Member for Embakasi South Constituency.

Thank you, Hon. Chairlady. It is very important that, as we fund some of those Semi-Autonomous Government Agencies (SAGAS) and State departments, we must point out some of their mistakes.

For example, the State Department for Correctional Services came to Embakasi South Constituency with some youths in two vehicles. People were made to run but, at the end of the day, the four youths who were brought by those two vehicles were the ones who were recruited together with another young man. So, a total of the five people who were recruited by Kenya Prisons Service (KPS) were not from Embakasi south Constituency.

We must make sure that when they go to recruit people from a certain constituency, they only recruit people from that constituency and not outsiders. The prison warden cannot come driving a car and then some youths get off his car, participate in running and, at the end of the tally, we are told that they are the ones who have been picked.

Secondly, on the murder of Ojwang’, we must stop killing our youth. The young man was picked up in Nyanza and brought to Nairobi in a heathy condition. The day before….

Hon. Mawathe, you are out of topic. There was a Statement issued earlier today. It is in the Order Paper…

About the killing?

Many Hon. Members had a chance to comment on it. A progress

report on the investigation will be brought to the House on Thursday. Therefore, stick to the

Hon. Chairlady, it is important that I speak to this matter. This is a matter of national interest. Therefore, as much as there is a Statement that is coming, it is wrong for …

The Statement already came up.

I am aware that you said there is an additional point. I hear you and I am fully guided. However, the point still remains that the death of Ojwang’, by hitting his head on the wall, is not possible.

On a point of order, Hon. Chairlady.

What is your point of order, Hon. Mwenje?

Thank you, Hon. Chairlady. We need some clarity on this amount from the Hon. Chairman of the Budget and Appropriations Committee, which I believe is what Hon. Wamboka was trying to find out. Why do we have this amount of Ksh17 billion, which is being referred to as “Recurrent and Development” when we know very well that any money going to the counties is being lost and plundered by the governors? They are just stealing money. They have frozen the Ksh10 billion that is supposed to come to Road Maintenance Levy Fund (RMLF) . Perhaps, the Chairman of the Budget and Appropriations Committee can clarify the purpose of money being supplied to the State Department for Devolution. If it is not necessary, he can transfer it to the NG-CDF for development.

Thank you, Hon. Chairlady.

Thank you.

Member for Mwingi West, Hon. Nguna, let us wait for this to get to the debate stage. I have not proposed the question. Therefore, hold your horses.

Hon. Ngusya, you can now make your contribution.

Thank you, Hon. Chairlady. Based on the prevailing weather conditions in most of the Arid and Semi-Arid Land (ASAL) areas, I think this money is so little. We need to take note of that so that maybe, in future, we can add more money to this Vote through a supplementary budget. The State Department for Special Programmes has been under-funded completely. An allocation of Ksh609 million is too little to meet the expectations of marginalised areas.

Thank you, Hon. Chairlady.

Thank you.

There is an amendment by Hon. Jane Kagiri.

THAT, the First Schedule be amended in Vote 1036

under the Programme 0733000

by deleting the expression ‘Ksh5,162,002,697’ appearing in Column 6

, and substituting therefore the expression ‘Ksh4,802,002,697.’ Hon. Chairlady, allow me to explain that the National Council for Nomadic Education in Kenya

(NACONEK)

is mandated to promote access, retention, transition and completion of basic education for learners in nomadic, marginalised and other underserved areas, specifically those in arid and semi-arid lands. Laikipia happens to be one of those areas and I believe for us to retain this budget at the Ministry of Education, it would enable NACONEK to ensure the alignment with education. We are not just feeding the children, but we are ensuring that they continue with their education. By allocating this money to the Department of ASALs, we may

be dealing with people who are detached from the system of education and may not be following through with what our children need to achieve.

It is also good to remember that we are a country that is constrained on resources and as the Ministry of Education monitors and evaluates other programmes, it is good that NACONEK retains the feeding programme because that is a programme that will be under the Ministry of Education.

On sustainability, for how long can ASAL continue monitoring to ensure that our children remain in school if they are the ones who are going to run the programme? My humble amendment would be with regard to ensuring that this Fund is returned to NACONEK and at the Ministry of Education so that we ensure that our children are retained in schools. Of course, I know when it is ASALs, they do not appreciate that there are places like Kisalgei in Laikipia County, where children have to be assured that they are going to school. Since officials of the Ministry of Education know all the schools in those areas, they will be able to monitor which child went to school, how he is faring in his education and how he is able to continue with his education.

Thank you. Hon. Members, let me propose the question and then you will have opportunity to speak on this proposed amendment.

Who is the Member who wanted to speak? Yes, Hon. Ngogoyo.

Hon. Chairlady, I rise to support the amendment. Coming from Kajiado, I rise to support the amendment because education in ASAL areas is a matter that has to be combined together with the issue of movement.

Secondly, we have many boarding schools in Kajiado that are meant to facilitate children from nomadic regions. I support this amendment because it will favour children, specifically during movement. I agree with Hon. Kagiri that this is the right direction. Let the money remain in the Ministry of Education because we must cluster education together with ASAL regions. Coming from Kajiado, this will be a beneficial attachment when it goes to the Ministry of Education.

Thank you very much.

Member for Busia County.

Thank you, Hon. Chairlady. I rise to fully support this amendment because I come from a place where floods are frequent and there are semi-arid areas like Funyula and Teso North. I spoke to the principals and they said that the attendance has improved. Nutrition-wise, the students are looking even better. Academic performance has improved, as well as the overall well-being of the children. So, this is a very good amendment.

Yes, Hon. Makali.

Hon. Chairlady, I have no problem with this amendment, but I think an issue of concern to me is that this is a policy matter ― that the money was with another body and it is being moved to another body. If my memory serves me well, the reason why the money was being moved from that particular organisation to the Ministry was because there was a bit of corruption. I do not think that, that issue has been addressed by the Mover of this amendment. Can we be told what is happening? I thought it was informed by the fact that the money was not being accounted for properly. So, are we saying that the issue has been sorted out? If not so, we cannot return money to where it has not been accounted for in the past.

Leader of Majority Party.

Thank you, Hon. Chairlady. I rise to oppose the amendment. I want to agree that there have been issues on accountability, as Hon. Makali has said. Hon. Makali has been a very diligent Member of the Budget and Appropriations Committee.

Secondly, there was a Cabinet decision to move that function from the Ministry of Education, and it has not been rescinded.

Thirdly, the Budget and Appropriations Committee has not even considered that particular amendment and agreed with it, in line with Article 114 of the Constitution. Therefore, I strongly oppose that particular amendment. I can see the Chair of the Budget and Appropriations Committee is preparing to say something.

Chairman, Budget and Appropriation Committee, this was approved by the Speaker and it was in the Order Paper. So, what is the position?

Hon. Chairlady, you know the Speaker may have approved it, but it did not pass through the Budget and Appropriations Committee, as has been explained by the Leader of the Majority Party. So, the amendment is rejected and it falls.

Hon. Bashir, proceed.

Hon. Chairlady, I think the amendment is quite in order. We are trying to insinuate that the Ministry of Education, through NACONEK, has failed to perform its functions. Do we have a report in this House that talks about the same? Do we have a report that says NACONEK has failed in performing its core duties of managing those funds? We do not have such a report. That is the case. Schools fall under the Ministry of Education. As much as I know, the ministries of East African Community, Arid and Semi-Arid Lands (ASALs) and Regional Development have the capacity to do other things for the ASAL regions. This is a matter that deals with schools. The Ministry of Education, through the National Council for Nomadic Education in Kenya (NACONEK) , is better placed to handle those kinds of funds. As we speak, no report has been tabled in this House to show otherwise about NACONEK’s ability to handle that fund.

I support the amendment.

Hon. Justice Kemei. Hon. Justice Kemei (Sigowet/Soin, UDA) : Thank you, Hon. Chairlady. While I agree on the need to have the school feeding programme not only in ASAL areas but also in other parts of the country, the proposal in the amendment has been abused. Shifting it back to where it was domiciled; it will not do justice to the people of this country. Therefore, in as much as Hon. Kagiri has given us fundamental reasons for supporting it to go back, I disagree with her proposal because the process has been abused, and will only benefit a few people.

Thank you.

Hon. Member for Laikipia. You will be the last and then we can allow the House to vote on it.

Thank you, Hon. Chairlady. Allow me to remind this Honourable House that it is not the duty of our children to suffer on behalf of corrupt individuals in this country. If there is a challenge at NACONEK, action needs to be taken on individuals who mismanage the money. It should not be our children in the ASAL areas who are going to suffer on their behalf.

We have been told about a Cabinet decision. It is the Legislature that directs the Executive. It has never been the Executive directing the Legislature. We will not allow our children in ASAL areas to suffer on behalf of corrupt individuals. We should deal with the individuals and give our children food in the streams they deserve.

Thank you.

Hon. Kaluma.

Thank you, Hon. Chairlady. The proposed amendment may sound good. However, my fear is that it is subject to Article 114 of the Constitution which says that, for such an amendment to be moved, it must have prior approval and the Report of the Budget and Appropriations Committee which must get the approval of the Cabinet Secretary in charge of the National Treasury. It may be well meaning, but we need your guidance on whether it can proceed in the manner proposed.

Chairperson of the Budget and Appropriations Committee.

Hon. Chairlady, let me just repeat myself. This particular amendment did not pass through our Committee. It was not processed through the Budget and Appropriations Committee. Therefore, I urge you to decline the proposed amendment.

It is not for me to decline the proposed amendment. You will vote on it as a House.

Let us have Hon. Makilap, and then we will come to the Member for Kwanza.

Thank you, Hon. Chairlady. The National Council for Nomadic Education in Kenya was established under Section 94 of the Basic Education Act of 2013. So, if it has to move to another ministry, then there must be an amendment to the Basic Education Act of 2013 that established it. Can we move the NACONEK to another ministry without amending the Act that established it in the Ministry of Education? If the Act is still the same, how can we move NACONEK to another ministry without amending the parent Act that established it? That is the law.

The Member for Kwanza.

Hon. Chairlady, the ASAL and the Regional Development authorities are two different things. If I may give my background, I was once a Managing Director of two regional development authorities and I know that the two are completely different. We should separate the regional development authorities and the ASALs. We should allow the ASALs to have their own accord. During President Kibaki’s time, the regional development authorities were the best coordination points for development of the country. As it is now, there is some money that has been set aside. I want us to agree so that we can separate the two. Regional development authority is a different thing all together from the ASAL integration. They should be separated so that we can move forward. regional development authorities are very important for development.

The Member for Mathare.

Thank you very much, Hon. Chairlady. The proposed amendment may be well meaning but, unfortunately, this is a matter within the remit of the Chair to give direction on. Since it is a matter concerning a provision of the Constitution, which is a condition precedent, we cannot vote on it. It is not subject to a vote. The matter before you, Chair, is whether we complied with Article 114 of the Constitution or not?

On a point of order, Hon. Chairlady.

What is your point of order Hon. Kagiri?

Thank you, Hon. Chairlady. I withdraw.

What are you withdrawing? Just be clear on what you are withdrawing.

I withdraw the amendments to Vote 1036

under the Programme 0733000 Accelerated ASAL Development, by deleting the expression “Ksh5,162,002,697” appearing in Column 6

, and substituting therefore, the expression “Ksh4,802,002,697” to allow consultations.

Hon. Kagiri, you have made a withdrawal under Vote 1036. However, it is also affecting Vote 1066. Are you also withdrawing Vote 1066?

Hon. Chairlady, I withdraw my amendments to Vote 1066

under the Programme 0501000 Primary Education, by deleting the expression “Ksh11,931,585,724” appearing in Column 6

, and substituting therefore the expression “Ksh12,291,585,724.”

(Programmes 0733000, 0743000

and 0761000 agreed to)

Hon. Members, before we proceed, allow me to welcome students seated in the Public Gallery from Chania Girls High School, Thika Town Constituency, Kiambu County. On behalf of the substantive Speaker and all the Members of Parliament, I welcome you and your teachers to Parliament.

Thank you.

Where is the Mover of the amendment? Chair, Budget and Appropriation Committee?

THAT, Vote 1041

under the Programme 0801000 Defence be amended by deleting the expression “Ksh195,991,900,000” appearing in Column 6

and substituting, therefor, the expression “Ksh184,991,900,000.” We are rationalising the budget for the Ministry of Defence because we realised that we had given them more resources than they need at the moment. That is the reason for this amendment.

Hon. Temporary Chairman, I want to draw the attention of the Chairman of the Budget Appropriation Committee and that of the Chairman of the relevant Committee, if he is around, that we have quite a substantial amount under recurrent expenditure under Programme 0714000, which would suggest a high level of payment of rent and the rest. In the future, can we have an arrangement where we can securitise or commit…?

The Temporary Chairman

: Order, Members!

We can build our diplomatic missions to reduce the amount of rent that we pay to foreigners.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Chairman. The Temporary Chairman

: Well said.

The Temporary Chairman (Hon. David Ochieng’): Hold your horses. Go ahead, Hon. CNN

Hon. Temporary Chairman, I am perturbed. About 15 constituencies have committed the National Government Constituencies Development Fund (NG-CDF) towards the construction of technical institutes and yet, after going through this Budget, the money for the completion of those technical institutes has not been factored in. I have interrogated the Budget. Money has not been allocated for completion of stalled projects in the institutes. It is painful. The stalled projects are lying there and wasting taxpayers’ money. We need the consideration of the same. We need guidance on the matter.

Thank you. The Temporary Chairman

: Thank you. Hon. Makali Mulu, have a minute.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Chairman. I agree with Hon. CNN. As we allocate money for completion of the projects, let us also factor in money to complete and equip institutes so that they are operational.

The Temporary Chairman

: Where is the Chairman of the Departmental Committee on Education? Chairman of the Budget and Appropriations Committee, do you have anything to say on this?

Hon. Temporary Chairman, the allocations under TVETs are justified. We have provided resources that are necessary to enhance infrastructure in TVETs. I am aware of a communication circulating on short message service (SMS) to the effect that TVET allocations have been cut. That is not the situation. I wish to confirm that we have provided enough resources for TVETs.

The Temporary Chairman

: Hon. CNN, take this matter up with the Chairman of the Departmental Committee on Education and the Chairman of the Budget and Appropriations Committee.

THAT, a sum not exceeding Ksh127,552,220,456 be issued from the Consolidated Fund to complete the sum necessary to meet the expenditure (Recurrent and Development) during the year ending 30th June 2026 in respect of Vote 1066 (State Department for Basic Education). The Temporary Chairman (Hon. David Ochieng’): Hon. Mbui.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Chairman. The Report of the Committee showed questions by the Departmental Committee on Education. I also had a meeting with the Cabinet Secretary for Education last week, and he complained about the amount of money being provided for capitation. Can the Chairman of the Committee confirm to the House whether we are allocating enough money for our children to enable them get basic education, and whether there is enough money to conduct examinations for our children? We amended the Basic Education Act and made sure that national exams are free. Let the Chairman confirm to us whether the money is enough.

The Temporary Chairman

: Thank you. Hon. Oundo.

Hon. Temporary Chairman, I would want to know from the Chairman of the Departmental Committee on Education, as well as the Chairman of the Budget and Appropriations Committee, whether there are sufficient funds that have been set aside to employ quality assurance and standards officers to meet the shortfall number of 2,000 in the country? Without quality assurance and controls, the quality of education will continue to dwindle over time, and Kenya will become uncompetitive at the international level.

The Temporary Chairman

: Thank you. Chairman of the Committee.

Let me start with the exam fee. The Government is currently engaged. As a House, we allocated Ksh5.9 billion for exams, knowing very well that it is not enough. We need about Ksh11 billion for examinations. But we know that the exams are not administered at once. There will be preparations for the exams and logistics. Payment of examiners will come later. I am sure that with Ksh5.9 billion, we can start the process. In the course of the year, other resources will be provided.

Secondly, capitation money is not released at once. It is released throughout the year. This House will appropriate for the shortages in the course of the year. Allow the Chairman of the Departmental Committee on Education to buttress the points I have made.

The Temporary Chairman

: Chairman, the issues raised are quality assurance, capitation and examinations. One minute for you.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Chairman. I thank the Chairman of the Budget and Appropriations Committee for understanding what we presented before his Committee. There was no allocation by The National Treasury and Economic Planning for examinations. We know very well that exams cannot consume the Ksh12 billion at once. We, therefore, allocated Ksh5.9 billion to cater for exam logistics and printing of the three exams that will be done at the end of this year.

Secondly, the Government invests about Ksh200 billion on quality assurance and yet, we have no officers to assess the quality. It is expensive to have huge investments with no officers overseeing what is going on. That is why we decided to give enough resources to that particular sector.

Lastly, the total capitation for schools is Ksh100 billion. We reduced the amount by Ksh5 billion because the money is not sent to schools at once, but in three cycles. The first cycle will have enough money. For the second cycle, the money will be appropriated by this House and, therefore, there will be no problem. No programme will be affected in that sector.

I submit.

The Temporary Chairman (Hon. David Ochieng’): Hon. Members, you are well apprised.

On a point of order, Hon. Temporary Chairman. The Temporary Chairman

: What is out of order, Hon. Mbui?

It is just an observation, Hon. Temporary Chairman. When you put the question, at the point of “Aye”, you were louder than “Nay”. You have to regulate the volume.

The Temporary Chairman

: I do not vote.

You have said “Aye” louder than “Nay” when putting the question.

The Temporary Chairman

: Hon. Mbui, I do not know what you are talking about. The Member is being mischievous. He knows I am not his cousin.

I have an amendment. Hon. Temporary Chairman, I beg to move: THAT, the Schedule be amended in Vote 1071

—

Hon. Temporary Chairman, it is commendable that a substantial amount of close to Ksh59 billion has been placed under capital expenditure. Can the Chairman of the Budget and Appropriations Committee give us an assurance that this is not just money on paper? That the money will actually flow and do the work it is supposed to do, unlike what has happened in this Financial Year that we are just about to conclude?

The Temporary Chairman

: Hon. Chairman of the Budget and Appropriations Committee.

Hon. Temporary Chairman, Hon. Oundo likes to play politics with this budget process. Hon. Oundo, you know that you are my brother. There is an opinion poll that comes at the end of the year about how many times somebody has spoken on this Floor. I urge you not to seek to be number one on that poll. You know very well that the Budget for this Financial Year is being implemented successfully. I have a Report on how that Budget is being implemented, which I will table in this House. Right now, we are at about 85 per cent of the Budget implementation…

The Temporary Chairman (Hon. David Ochieng’): Well said.

So, there is no doubt that the allocated money will be spent correctly. I also know that the Principal Secretary in-charge of this docket is from Hon. Oundo’s Constituency. I can assure you that, that Principal Secretary will be given the resources to do his work.

The Temporary Chairman

: Thank you.

The Temporary Chairman

: Order, Hon. Oundo.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Chairman, for giving me an opportunity to contribute to this Vote on medical services.

You are all aware that health is a devolved function. I saw a number of health centres in the Second Schedule that seem to be set up for construction. I want to know from either the Chairperson of the Budget and Appropriations Committee or the Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Health if part of this money is being used to carry out functions that are clearly devolved to the counties in the Fourth Schedule.

The Temporary Chairman

: Hon. Nyikal. Hon. Oundo, let Hon. Nyikal answer this first.

Some of those health centres are being set up by the National Government to support the county governments in the form of Levels 2 and 3 health facilities. Many of them were established as presidential directives and so, we faced the dilemma of whether or not to stop projects that had already been started. Our decision was that if something has been started and money has been allocated to it, it is not fair to kill it. We decided to allocate funds to complete those projects. Even then, they are very many and we

may not complete them in this Financial Year. Some may still appear in next year’s budget because they will not be completed.

Many colleagues had facilities in their constituencies, whose completion had been promised and, therefore, we had to reduce the allocations to do so. If we were to consider these matters on principle, we would have refused to allocate funds to those projects. But since they had already been started, it will be difficult to just let them lie fallow. That is why we decided to allocate funds to them. We actually reduced the allocations for some.

Hon. Temporary Chairman, the issue of healthcare services and financing is an emotive issue at the moment. It is a matter that has been robustly discussed all over. For general knowledge and consumption, the Chairman of the Departmental Committee on Health should tell us how much has been set aside for primary healthcare, critical health and chronic illness so that Kenyans can know.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Chairman. The Temporary Chairman

: Hon. Makali Mulu.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Chairman.

As a follow up on that matter, it will be important for Kenyans to be told how much money has been put in the Budget for interns. This is because they are always out here and, therefore, we need to give them confidence so that they can go back to work.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Chairman. The Temporary Chairman

: Hon. Nyikal.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Chairman. The Primary Healthcare Fund comes under the broader financing of Social Health Authority (SHA) . There are two Funds: Emergency and critical cares which have not had an allocation before. This time we have allocated them Ksh10 billion. The Primary Healthcare Fund has, for the first time, had an allocation of Ksh13 billion. It is expected that this money will be under coordination between the county governments, National Government and SHA. This money will support primary healthcare services at Level 2, Level 3 and outpatient facilities.

Under the interns, we have put Ksh4.3 billion. That will take care of a number of interns. However, more funds are needed here. We have asked for extra funding in that area and so, in the Supplementary Budget, we may have to look at it. For your information, Universal Health Coverage (UHC) workers that have been a big problem, had an initial budget of Ksh4.1 billion, but we managed to get an extra Ksh2 billion, making it Ksh6.1 billion. With the arrangement we have put in place, it is adequate to start the project of transmitting them. We have provided adequate funding for that.

The Temporary Chairman (Hon. David Ochieng’): Thank you. Chairman of the Budget and Appropriations Committee.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Chairman. I would like to thank Hon. Nyikal for that submission. I would also like to add that for the UHC workers, I can assure them that the money that has been allocated for their confirmation into permanent and pensionable is here. It is reserved. Therefore, I urge them to stop sending me SMSs and WhatsApp messages. This morning, I received about 1,000 SMSs.

The Temporary Chairman

: How much is it?

Hon. Temporary Chairman, Ksh6.1 billion. We allocated this amount since we know that most of those workers have either left the service or have been employed into permanent terms and so they are now few. That is why we believe that, that amount is enough for that process.

The Temporary Chairman

: Thank you. I will now put the Question.

Hon. Temporary Chairman, I beg to move:

THAT the First Schedule be amended in Vote 1091

under the Programme 0202000

(Road Transport)

, by deleting the expression Ksh128,453,219,469 appearing in Column 7

and substituting therefore, the expression Ksh150,253,219,469. Hon. Temporary Chairman, this is one of the processes we are engaging in to ensure equity in roads allocation across the country. Thank you.

The Temporary Chairman

: Hon. Paul Abuor, do you have a point of order or you want to contribute?

Hon. Temporary Chairman, I have gone through the amendment. It will bring a difference of almost Ksh21.8 billion, which is not a small amount. It is only fair for the Chairman of the Budget and Appropriations Committee to table the list of those proposed roads before we approve this amendment. It is a very big amount.

The Temporary Chairman

: Hon. Chairman, go ahead.

Hon. Temporary Chairman, we have the list which we can avail to the Hon. Member. It consists of all ongoing roads whose budgets

have been cut substantially. We felt that if the monies are not brought back, then the roads will continue to stall. We can provide the list.

The Temporary Chairman (Hon. David Ochieng’): Hon. Abuor.

Hon. Abuor can see me so that I can give him the list of the roads.

The Temporary Chairman

: The list should be available to everyone.

Hon. Temporary Chairman, going by our Standing Orders, the list should not be provided to me, but it should be tabled in the House and approved by Members of Parliament.

The Temporary Chairman

: Chairman of the Budget and Appropriations Committee, the list should be tabled in the House before the end of the day. Can you undertake that it will be tabled before the end of the day?

Hon. Temporary Chairman, I undertake to table the list.

Hon. Temporary Chairman, we have a substantial allocation towards rail transport. Can those of us who do not sit in the Departmental Committee on Transport and Infrastructure be generally informed where this money is going to be expended so that we can be aware?

Secondly, I am not so sure whether the Chairperson of the Budget and Appropriations Committee will apprise the country on the extent of exploration.

Hon. Members, this is the third time Hon. Oundo is asking this question. We have the books and they are public documents. They are for Members of Parliament and everyone else. Hon. Oundo, I will not entertain a question like that because every Member has access to these books.

Yes.

You can see how much is going to health, transport and all the other programmes as indicated. We will be repeating ourselves. Not unless you are seeking a clarification but, in terms of the numbers, these are clearly in the books.

THAT, a sum not exceeding Ksh5,683,384,683 be issued from the Consolidated Fund to complete the sum necessary to meet the expenditure (Recurrent and Development) during the year ending 30th June, 2026 in respect of Vote 1093 (State Department for Shipping and Maritime Affairs).

On a point of order, Hon. Temporary Chairman.

Hon. Mayaka, what is out of order?

Hon. Chairman, I have been pressing the intervention button trying to catch your attention.

It is not showing on my end.

Apologies for that. I also have a question. Looking at the Third Schedule on the Votes and the summary of what it contains, from Vote 1091 through to 1093, we do not have any information presented. Maybe, that is the concern most Members have because we are not able to follow the details of those particular Votes.

Thank you so much, Hon. Member. That is what I was speaking to. I have given direction that it must be availed to all Members before the end of the day. The Chairperson has undertaken that it shall be done. Because of the many amendments that have been done in that particular Committee, they are not ready. So, Hon. Chairperson, make sure that the list is available.

THAT, a sum not exceeding Ksh14,515,164,555 be issued from the Consolidated Fund to complete the sum necessary to meet the expenditure (Recurrent and Development) during the year ending 30th June 2026 in respect of Vote 1097 (State Department for Aviation and Aerospace Development).

Hon. Temporary Chairman, thank you very much.

I just want to put it on record and, maybe, seek your guidance. The earlier estimates that were submitted to this House last week, under this particular Vote Item, under the Third Schedule… I cannot see the page! But on something called Muozi Water Pan in Suba South. The amount presented today is a reduction of Ksh10 million, as opposed to the earlier one that was presented here last week, which was Ksh30 million. I am wondering what has occasioned that. What records do I have as the Member of Parliament for Suba South?

The Temporary Chairman

: Good question. Hon. Wanyonyi.

Hon. Temporary Chairman, this is almost my fourth time talking about irrigation. In your simple logistics, what does one irrigate? You irrigate crops. We should do something about that department because it is misplaced. It is supposed to be under the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock Development. The items mentioned here are not relevant. They should do something about it because it is just logic.

The Temporary Chairman

: Hon. Bowen, you may answer Hon. Caroli’s question. Regarding the other question, although it is in order, I do not think there is anything you can do about it. Is Hon. Bowen in the House? Hon. Caroli’s question was that there was money allocated to a project that was available last week, but has now been reduced.

Hon. Temporary Chairman, maybe, I will sit down with Hon. Caroli to confirm the specific project he is referring to.

The Temporary Chairman

: He mentioned it. Hon. Caroli, I suggest that you approach the Chairperson of the concerned Committee. You can cross the aisle.

That should take 30 seconds because I want to proceed on this.

Hon. Temporary Chairman, some projects were supposed to be implemented at the Headquarters. Therefore, we are reducing the allocation to the Headquarters, but increasing the allocation to the implementing agency, which is the Lake Victoria South Water Works Development Agency. If you give me a few minutes after you finish the next Vote, I will come back to you as I show him exactly where this...

The Temporary Chairman (Hon. David Ochieng’): This Vote will be taken subject to what you have just said. This is a House of honour, Hon. Kangogo. Hon. Omondi, you do not need to belabour the point.

I am not belabouring it. I just want to put it on record that there is no concomitant increment as of now.

The Temporary Chairman

: He said that he wants to check that.

Thank you.

Hon. Temporary Chairman, this is probably one of the issues that has elicited a raging debate regarding the mandate of the national Government and the county governments.

There is nothing unconstitutional or illegal for the National Government to allocate or appropriate funds. Can the Budget and Appropriations Committee allocate some of the amount as conditional grant to the county governments, so that they can carry out the Last Mile Connectivity? They continuously, complain that they do not have money. Nobody knows where they take their money. Since it is the common mwananchi who suffers and the National Government has an overarching responsibility and duty to protect the interests of wananchi, can they find a way of giving out conditional grants so that more work can be completed in good time?

Some of those agencies are earmarked for dissolution or merging. I do not know how we will implement those funds.

The Temporary Chairman

: Hon. Mukunji.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Chairman. I beg to differ with my colleague. One of the areas where the National Government does tremendous job is electricity connectivity. We know what is happening in the Rural Electrification and Renewable Energy Corporation (REREC) and Kenya Power. However, in matters of the Last Mile Connectivity, the National Government must play a bigger role. County governments are overwhelmed with the services they render.

The Temporary Chairman

: That is what Hon. Oundo said. Do you differ with him or you support him? He said that county governments are overwhelmed, and that the National Government should support them.

He has suggested that the National Government should give county governments conditional grants. He is adding roles to the county governments instead of reducing them, so that they can focus on health and Early Childhood Education (ECD) .

The Temporary Chairman

: I am happy you are seated next to Hon. Atandi. He can tell you how that works after answering the question.

Hon. Temporary Chairman, those projects are being implemented by the water authorities which have more technical capacity, including the number of engineers, compared to the county governments. Some counties do not even have technical officers. For now, the water authorities are best placed to implement those programme that we have allocated funds to.

Thank you.

and Development) during the year ending 30th June 2026 in respect of Vote 1132 (State Department for Sports).

Chair, could the Chairman of the Budget and Appropriations Committee and the Chairman of the Departmental Committee on Energy explain why there is a reduction of Ksh520 million from Project 1152109701 for rural electrification schemes? We know very well that there is a need for more rural electrification because many people are still in darkness and the demand for electricity is very high. Can we know why you are reducing Ksh520 million from rural electrification?

The Temporary Chairman

: Hon. Anthony Oluoch.

Even as we pass this Vote, it is important to remember that the Last Mile Connectivity is just not only about constituencies in rural areas. There are constituencies with informal settlements in urban areas, including mine. Other such settlements are Mukuru and other places. They have not had electricity for nearly seven years. I can mention Hospital Ward in my constituency.

I hope the affirmative action included in this Vote is to ensure connectivity to my people and other informal settlements and will be completed in the Supplementary Budget. We will ask that additional funds be allocated so that we achieve Last Mile Connectivity in informal settlements.

The Temporary Chairman (Hon. David Ochieng’): Chair of the Departmental

Committee on Energy or Chair of the Budget and Appropriations Committee?

The question by Hon. Mary Emaase is about the removed Ksh530 million. The money was for paying a pending bill. We realised the Committee justified that the money was not sufficient. Therefore, the money was transferred to cater for electricity to public institutions.

The Temporary Chairman

: Hon. Emaase, you heard what he has said. The money was for paying pending bills, but they moved it from that Vote so that it goes to public institutions.

Hon. Mary Emaase

Hon. Temporary Chairperson, it will be important if the Chair can submit the list so that we can see the public institutions. We have stalled the Last Mile Programme. Poles were delivered and nothing is ongoing. The contractors have withdrawn from sites. If you come to Teso South, I have a number of programmes where holes were dug, posts supplied and there is no installation. The contractor has withdrawn. So, if we do not pay pending bills and yet we are the same House that advocates for payment of pending Bills, are we not contradicting ourselves?

The Temporary Chairperson

: Hon. Atandi.

Hon. Temporary Chairperson, the problem Mary is raising is everywhere.

The Temporary Chairperson

: She is Hon. Mary.

Sorry, Chair. The problem Hon. Mary is raising is everywhere. I know that there are so many court cases on Rural Electrification and Renewable Energy Corporation (REREC) that are stalling the development of those programmes. I want to assure Hon. Mary that the funds that we have taken to public institutions are not specific to projects. As the Budget and Appropriations Committee, we decided that we will not specify new projects for the money that we have allocated to institutions. So, the money is in bulk in REREC. The Rural Electrification and Renewable Energy Corporation will look at the programmes that need to be funded and fund them directly as opposed to Members of Parliament putting new projects in the list at budget level.

The Temporary Chairperson

: Hon. Mary Emaase, you are well advised. That should be sufficient for you.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Chairperson.

When I look at this Vote, there is a new programme called National Livestock Development and Promotion Service (NLDPS) Board that has just been allocated a paltry Ksh50 million. This is a new board that was inaugurated four months ago and it needs to take off. Remember, livestock contributes 12 per cent to our Gross domestic product (GDP). Unfortunately, there is no seriousness in ensuring that the board takes off. What plans do they have for that board? There is no point of having a board that has been inaugurated sitting in office without doing any programme. Remember that all of us eat meat. We cannot have lunch without meat that comes from livestock. We have the Coffee Board of Kenya and the Tea Board of Kenya with billions. Why is the livestock sector not given the seriousness that it deserves? Ksh50 million is nothing. This board needs to take off so that it can be operational. I want to hear from the Chair what plans the Committee has in the subsequent budgeting process so that the board can take off to ensure that the livestock sector is well taken care of.

The Temporary Chairperson (Hon. David Ochieng’): This is a policy issue. I do not think it is for the Chair of Budget. Where is the Chair of the Departmental Committee on Agriculture and Livestock?

Order, Hon. Member. Just sit down. Hon. Member, you cannot do that to the Chairman of Budget and Appropriations Committee and yet you know that these Budget Estimates come from the committees. I think decorum is very important here. Let us have the Chairman of the Budget and Appropriations Committee comment on it.

Hon. Temporary Chairman, thank you very much for that protection.

Indeed, this is a policy issue. I must say that it is unfortunate that, that Board has not been properly funded to function. They had asked us for about Ksh500 million, but we were only able to give them Ksh50 million to begin their activities. I am sure that in the successive budgets, we will be able to see what we can add.

I want to confirm to the House that the Board has Ksh50 million in this Budget. We believe that is enough for them to begin operations.

Thank you. The Temporary Chairman

: Hon. Members, you have a minute each, please.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Chairman. This is a very important issue…

The Temporary Chairman

: But give it a minute. Do not go beyond.

Allow me this, Hon. Temporary Chairman. The Temporary Chairman

: I will not allow you more than a minute.

Okay. This is a very important issue. I want to confirm to the House and the pastoralist community of the Republic of Kenya that this morning, we had a serious discussion with the Cabinet Secretary for the National Treasury and Economic Planning on the same. Hon. Temporary Chairman, you are aware that the Bill was passed in 2013, but the Board was operationalised four months ago. You cannot just understand why it took over 10 years to operationalise it.

Secondly, Hon. Temporary Chairman, I know that even where you also come from, there is Sessional Paper No.10 of 1965 which is in operation somewhere in the National Treasury and Economic Planning. I want to assure you that we are not going to let this go. That Board must be funded. We will do whatever it takes to make sure that, that Board takes off. I am glad to report to the pastoralist community that we have had a serious undertaking from the Cabinet Secretary for the National Treasury and Economic Planning, Hon. Mbadi, this

morning, and we will still meet him again next week on Wednesday to deliberate on this. That Board must be funded. That is the long and short of it.

The Temporary Chairman (Hon. David Ochieng’): Correct. I think that is the long and short of it. When they do that, they will also fund the Kenya Fisheries Board. Hon. Caroli.

Hon. Temporary Chairman, I note with very serious concern that there is a reduction in the Vote for the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock. From what was presented last week, there is a reduction, but it is being termed as an increment. It says: ”An increase of Ksh50 million for sustainable Tsetse flies and Trypanosomiasis free areas”, and yet, last week, we had Ksh100 million allocated to combat Tsetse flies, especially in the Lambwe Valley where that problem is very acute. I would like to get some clarity as to what is going on here.

The Temporary Chairman

: Chairman of the Departmental Committee on Agriculture and Livestock. Hon. Wanyonyi, do you want to answer that?

Yes. This came before us, and what we discussed is that we should improve the livestock policy to the extent that we have some programmes to export live animals, particularly to the Far East and the Middle East. We are discussing this in the Departmental Committee, and we will be able to do that. Exportation of live animals, particularly to the Middle East and the Far East, is important.

The Temporary Chairman

: Thank you. Hon. Members.

Hon. Temporary Chairman, my question was…

The Temporary Chairman

: Hon. Wanyonyi, I thought…

Last week… The Temporary Chairman

: A minute, Hon. Caroli. I thought you were answering the question by Hon. Caroli on the Tsetse fly reduction.

He is not aware? The Temporary Chairman

: Chairman of the Budget and Appropriations Committee, do you have any response to this issue of tsetse fly in Lambwe Valley?

Hon. Temporary Chairman, let me say this is a policy issue. The Chairman of the Departmental Committee on Agriculture and Livestock would have been in the best place to respond to that issue. I hope I have satisfied the Members.

The Temporary Chairman

: Thank you. Members, I put the Question that the programmes under vote 1162…

On a point of order, Hon. Temporary Chairman.

The Temporary Chairman

: What is out of order?

I think the Chairman of the Budget and Appropriations Committee is evading the question. The question is whether there is a contradiction. There is Ksh50 million here and then there is Ksh100 million. That is not a policy issue; it is budgeting. Could the Chairman let us know if there is an internal contradiction? My home is in Lambwe Valley. Those tsetse flies usually rest on my trees every morning. I do not want to be bitten by those flies. It will cause me to sleep in this honourable House. Can we, please, have that reconciled properly?

The Temporary Chairman

: Chairman of the Budget and Appropriations Committee.

Hon. Temporary Chairman, the total amount allocated for the Tsetse flies and Trypanosomiasis is Ksh100 million.

The Temporary Chairman

: Hon. Caroli, you need to check that as I put the Question.

Hon. Temporary Chairman, I beg to move:

THAT, Vote 1169

, under 0108000 Crop Development and Management, be amended by deleting the expression Ksh20,166,811,411 appearing in Column 7

and substituting therefore, the expression Ksh20,316,811,411. This is an additional Ksh150 million to help in purchasing dryers for coffee farmers. Thank you.

On a point of order, Hon. Temporary Chairman.

The Temporary Chairman

: After I propose the Question, you can raise your point of order.

Let us have Hon. Wamuchomba.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I just wanted to point out that Hon. Atandi is out of order. That is because in his amendment, he has

read out the first figure in billions, but has read the second figure without mentioning whether it is in billions or millions. He needs to be categorical. I am a coffee farmer and I am very interested in this.

Thank you. The Temporary Chairman (Hon. David Ochieng’): Okay. Hon. Makali.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Chairman.

This House approved the sugar reforms and the leasing of public sugar mills. The public sugar mills are owed Ksh5.6 billion. In this proposal, there is a reduction of Ksh530 million from the sugar reforms. Can the Chairman assure us that this will not affect the sugar reforms because the farmers are owed Ksh5.6 billion? The investors have taken over and yet the Government had committed to paying all those sums of money to the sugar farmers, the employees and the retirees. Can the Chairman assure us that those farmers and employees will be paid?

The Temporary Chairman

: Thank you. Hon. Oundo.

Hon. Temporary Chairman, this department oversees most of the value chain, and the so-called Bottom-Up Economic Transformation Agenda (BETA) ; whatever that means. I hope they have included sufficient funds for the textile value chain in terms of seeds for cotton, ginneries and the entire value chain. This will enable us realise that dream so that it does not become a rhetoric in public.

The Temporary Chairman

: Thank you.

On a point of order, Hon. Temporary Chairman.

The Temporary Chairman

: Hon. Wamuchomba, we have just spoken on this. Go ahead.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I have just had a chat with the Hon. Chairman of the Budget and Appropriations Committee. He has explained to us why he is changing the figures. But please allow him to submit the actual figures on record, so that we can record properly. This is because in the last financial year, the same was done. Some money was allocated but it was never implemented. This is a House of records and records are very critical.

Thank you. The Temporary Chairman

: The figures I will read are the figures of the House. Listen to them. The addition on this is just Ksh20 million.

The Temporary Chairman

: Go ahead.

I think this is a House where we should be allowed to express ourselves…

The Temporary Chairman

: You have, and I am responding to you just now.

It is only right for us to be listened to and not to be dismissed. I am saying that the figure that the Chairman of the Budget and Appropriations Committee has read on the first submission is not the same figure he has repeated in his second submission. What figure are we entrenching?

The Temporary Chairman

: That is what I am explaining to you. It is because he is amending. The first figure he read is the figure in the Order Paper, while the second figure he read is the amended figure.

But he did not tell us whether it is in billion or millions of shillings. That is what we want him to say so that we can keep track. Our work is oversight.

The Temporary Chairman

: No, he mentioned. But he can repeat. I heard him read out what you are saying he should. Hon. Atandi, kindly be on record again.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Chairman. I beg to move: THAT, the First Schedule be amended in Vote 1169

under the 0108000 Crop Development and Management, by deleting the expression “Ksh20, 166,811,411” appearing in Column 7

and substituting therefor the expression “Ksh20, 316,811,411” I explained that this is an additional Ksh150 million that is meant for buying coffee dryers. Thank you.

The Temporary Chairman

: Before I put the final question on this, Hon. Chairperson of the Budget and Appropriations Committee, there was a question we passed. It does not affect the numbers, but you still need to respond to Hon. Makali’s question.

That is what I am dealing with now. Hon. Makali’s question was on where you took the Ksh530 million for sugar reforms.

Hon. Temporary Chairman, that money was re-allocated by the Departmental Committee on Agriculture and Livestock and I think they directed it to the coffee sector.

Hon. Temporary Chairman, that was a re-allocation by the Committee. The Member for Kwanza is a member of that Committee and that was the report that came from them.

Let me add that the money was taken to the coffee sector for crop diversification. People in Western Kenya also want to grow coffee and the Committee felt that they needed to give them that money so that the citizens of Western Kenya can diversify from sugar-cane to coffee.

The Temporary Chairman

: Hon. Makali, this is not….

The Temporary Chairman (Hon. David Ochieng’): Hon. Caroli, which report is this?

Hon. Temporary Chairman, you gave us time to consult with the Hon. Chairperson for the Departmental Committee on the Blue Economy and Irrigation, together with the Hon. Chairperson of the Budget and Appropriations

Committee on the question I had asked about the reduction of Ksh10 million shillings from the

THAT, a sum not exceeding Ksh5,093,490,075 be issued from the Consolidated Fund to complete the sum necessary to meet the expenditure (Recurrent and Development) during the year ending 30th June 2026 in respect of Vote 1176 (State Department for Micro, Small and Medium Enterprises Development). (Programmes 0316000, 0317000, 0318000 and 0319000 agreed to)

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Chairman.

We appreciate this allocation for the elderly. The only thing I wish is that we improve on the release of the money. There are a lot of delays in releasing the money and our senior citizens are actually suffering. So, if we could improve on it, that would be excellent.

The Temporary Chairman (Hon. David Ochieng): Correct. Hon. Emaase.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Chairman. I see a reduction of Ksh600, 000,000 from the National Social Safety Net. We should get a clarification and the reasons why. For more than three years, the elderly have not been registered. There is a good number of people who have achieved the age to benefit from that social fund and yet, they have not been on-boarded. Could the reason for the reduction be explained to us?

The Temporary Chairman

: Hon. Atandi.

Hon. Mary is right that so many elderly people have not been on-boarded. Also, many elderly people have died and their numbers have decreased. I can assure you that, as the process of on-boarding takes off, the budget will be reinstated.

The Temporary Chairman

: Okay.

On a point of order, Hon. Temporary Chairman.

The Temporary Chairman

: Yes, Hon. Oundo.

I am not so sure whether the Chairman of the Budget and Appropriations Committee will apprise the country on the extent of exploration.

I hope the Chief Whip of the Majority Party is not leaving. He could as well answer the question. We have heard reports in the past of oil exploration in Turkana and gas exploration in the Coast region. I can see an allocation of a whooping Ksh5 billion, which I presume is for exploration purposes. Can we be given the status report to know if there is value for money?

The Temporary Chairman

: Chairman of the Budget and Appropriations Committee.

Hon. Temporary Chairman, I plead with you to save me from that policy question. It is not within the scope of the budget.

The Temporary Chairman

: I know Hon. Oundo would only come to the Floor with a proper question to the relevant Committee. Why would he ask for the status report of exploration from the Budget and Appropriations Committee?

Ultimately, the final word lies with the Chairman of the Budget and Appropriations Committee. He must have been briefed. He is a diligent young man from my neighbourhood…

The Temporary Chairman

: Hon. Oundo, last time I heard, you were a member of the Departmental Committee on Lands.

No! I have never sat in the Departmental Committee on Lands.

The Temporary Chairman

: Which Committee do you sit in?

I sit in the Departmental Committee on Trade, Industry and Co-operatives as well as the Public Accounts Committee.

The Temporary Chairman

: Yes. Did your Committee bring a report before the Budget and Appropriation Committee?

Yes, but it has nothing to do with exploration.

The Temporary Chairman

: No. The point is when you sat as the Departmental Committee on Trade, Industry and Co-operatives, you looked at all the things under your mandate and took them before the Budget and Appropriation Committee. Is that not so?

Yes, and when the Chairman went to the Budget and Appropriations Committee, he was requested to defend every single line of entry. I am sure by this time, the young man has got a lot of information which he can later discuss.

The Temporary Chairman

: I beseech you, Members, there is nothing untoward on this matter. Just because we have a break does not mean we should not. I want to proceed with this matter.

Hon. Adan, speak from the next.

I respect Hon. Oundo because he understands. When he was raising that issue, I am sure he also knew the answer. The budget-making process is stratified in such a way that there is a Budget Policy Statement which is a wish list that encompasses every policy objective of the Executive. Then it comes to Parliament. That Statement is what leads to putting it in figures. That is what ends up before the Budget and Appropriation Committee.

The Temporary Chairman

: Of course, that is what Hon. Oundo teaches at the university. He knows this.

Please, I know you are somebody well-informed, well- reasoned and well-articulated. Bring it as a question, and I am sure the Chairman of the relevant committee will be in a position to answer it.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Chairman. It is worth going on record on this matter – the programme on tourism product development and diversification. We are performing very poorly in this area in terms of tourism. This country has huge potential. I urge this Department to use that money effectively so that we can boost our numbers. We will also boost our revenue. Thank you.

The Temporary Chairman

: Thank you. Hon. Kangogo.

Hon. Temporary Chairman, some two weeks ago, we saw a serious backlog at the Kenya Wildlife Services, when many tourists wanted to access the park. It was embarrassing to the country and to those tourists. We hope the Ministry of Tourism and Wildlife, in this financial year, will put in place some measures to make sure that our tourists find it easy to access our parks. Thank you.

Hon. Temporary Chairman, the human-wildlife conflict in this country affects many people. In Kerio Valley, where I come from, we have so many elephants which destroy many crops. Farmers were told to register at the nearby chief and Kenya Wildlife Service (KWS) , but they have not been paid. The compensation of human-wildlife conflict takes too long, and is now a pending bill of close to Ksh7 billion, which is almost half of this money. The Chairman of the Budget and Appropriations Committee should tell us how much out of this Ksh14 billion is for human- wildlife compensation.

The Temporary Chairman

: Thank you. Member for Ndhiwa.

Hon. Temporary Chairman, on the same note, in Ndhiwa, we have many victims who have been mauled by crocodiles, but the compensation takes a lot of time. It sometimes takes two or three years before they are compensated. I join that question to be assured whether the compensation has been included here and whether it will be implemented. This is very important to us.

The Temporary Chairman

: Hon. Chairman, consult and give us an answer.

Hon. Temporary Chairman, I confirm that there is Ksh1.86 billion in this Budget for human-wildlife compensation. I believe the relevant Members of Parliament will pursue compensation for their constituents once this Budget is passed.

The Temporary Chairman

: Correct. Thank you. Address the same before the relevant committee.

Yes, Whip of the Minority Party.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Chairman. I am glad that money has been allocated because my area is greatly affected by attacks by hippopotamuses. I share the same concern with ‘Wuod Chief’ who is also affected by other wildlife. Many people have been killed by hippopotamuses in our areas, but it takes too long to compensate them. We welcome the idea of allocating the money to compensate them.

Hon. Chairman, I want to confirm that this is the Vote where the National Government Affirmative Action Fund (NGAAF) falls, but I can see that there is no woman representative in the House.

The Temporary Chairman

: There is none.

In future, when they complain that their money has been taken away, they should not blame anyone because they are not here when we go through some of these processes.

The Temporary Chairman

: There is nothing out of order there. The Chairman said there is no woman representative in the House and that is true.

Hon. Temporary Chairman, even if the county women representatives are not here, we are representing them. The Temporary Chairman

: It is all agreed.

The allocation for affirmative action .… The Temporary Chairman

: That part is already spent.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, we showed interest in it. The Temporary Chairman

: Order. Hon. Emaase! You have been seated there and every time you have raised your hand, I have given you a chance to speak. Take your seat.

THAT, a sum not exceeding Ksh5,354,954,345 be issued from the Consolidated Fund to complete the sum necessary to meet the expenditure (Recurrent and Development) during the year ending 30th June 2026 in respect of Vote 1252 (State Law Office).

Chair, this is a very important line item, but I am just wondering whether this is really enough. Many cases are being lost now because witnesses are scared and do not show up due to lack of protection. I am not sure but, maybe, the Chairman, Parliamentary Service Commission (PSC) , can react to this. This is a drop in the ocean.

The Temporary Chairman

: Hon. Chair, the Member for Ndhiwa thinks that it is not enough. The Member for Ndhiwa, what would be enough?

At least Ksh2 billion. In fact, I would even take from the prosecution. Without witnesses, the prosecution is null and void.

The Temporary Chairman

: Let us hear from the Chair of the Budget and Appropriations Committee. Hon. Oundo, what do you want to say?

Hon. Temporary Chairman, if you sit with many prosecutors and the police, you will realise that they are so frustrated. Witnesses are no longer willing to go and testify. In the new Constitution, the accused persons are given bail and bonds and they roam in the villages. We need to strengthen the witness protection system. Otherwise, we will not prosecute criminals who roam around successfully, including the rogue police officers in uniform who kill innocent boys and girls.

Thank you. The Temporary Chairman

: The Chair of the Budget and Appropriations Committee.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Chairman. I appreciate the contributions from Members. The amount you see here of Ksh841 million is an enhancement by Ksh100 million and so, the Budget and Appropriations Committee is doing something. I have also taken note of the Members’ comments. We will continue to enhance it in future. This is an enhancement by about Ksh100 million.

The Temporary Chairman

: Hon. Members should take interest in this and engage relevant agencies so that they have figures that they think will be sufficient.

Hon. Temporary Chairman, I do not know whether this money will take care of buying seedlings and planting trees. The Government policy of increasing forest cover is given lip service. Many of our women groups have seedlings, but they cannot sell them to anybody and yet the Government does not seem to have provided for that. Will this money be used to look into that?

The Temporary Chairman

: That is policy. I will invite the Member to also check the books so that he can know how much has been allocated. I want to imagine that the Chair of the Budget and Appropriations Committee does not have that answer. Chairman, do you want to consult to know how much has been set aside for tree planting?

As the Chair consults, he can answer that question in the next Vote.

Hon. Temporary Chairman, there is a lot of intervention from the donor community in matters of afforestation, and money that is not captured in our Estimates. From the Estimates Vote under the State Department for Forestry, we have about Ksh1.5 billion that is meant for afforestation.

The Temporary Chairman

: Thank you.

THAT, a sum not exceeding Ksh530,334,902 be issued from the Consolidated Fund to complete the sum necessary to meet the expenditure (Recurrent and Development) during the year ending 30th June 2026 in respect of Vote 2011 (Kenya National Commission on Human Rights). The Temporary Chairman (Hon. David Ochieng’): Hon. Makali.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Chairman. I just wanted to request the House that, as we move to the future, we look at this budget of the Kenya National Commission on Human Rights (KNCHR) because we are experiencing many human rights abuse cases. I wish we could even double this budget so that they document the cases to improve the situation as it is.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Chairman.

Put the Question. The Temporary Chairman

: That was a comment.

Hon. Temporary Chairman, the mandate of the National Land Commission (NLC) is to provide compensation for acquired public land. I chair a committee where so many water projects are donor-funded. Under the donor-funded projects, the Government of Kenya is supposed to provide the counterpart money for land compensation. The Government transfers the money to the NLC, but it takes them almost one year to compensate the beneficiaries. If the government transfers Ksh5 billion or Ksh10 billion, what is the interest accrued from that money for one year, and where does it go? It is an issue we need to investigate because the Commission does it deliberately. The NLC keeps that money for that period so that they benefit from the interest accrued.

The Temporary Chairman

: Chairman of the Departmental Committee on Housing, Urban Planning and Public Works, you are allowed to cross the aisle, but not speak on the phone. You are allowed to cross. Do not worry.

and Development) during the year ending 30th June 2026 in respect of Vote 2031 (Independent Electoral and Boundaries Commission).

Hon. Temporary Chairman, I just want to make a plea to the Teachers Service Commission (TSC) . A passionate plea on behalf of the teachers of Kenya who take care of our children. I hope the Budget and Appropriations

Committee Chairman is listening. The first one is that we have teachers who probably went to school a bit later. They are approaching 45 years and they have not been employed by TSC. With the enhanced budget and the fact that they will now employ 20,000 or so teachers, I make a plea that they give such teachers first priority. It is basic human rights.

Number two, there must be fair distribution of teachers in this country. You find that some parts of this country have excess teachers, while others have acute shortages of teachers. Appreciating that TSC is a constitutional commission, we request and beseech them together with the Ministry, to address those two twin issues as a matter of urgency. Of course, the issues of delayed, unfair and skewed promotions are matters that need to be addressed now that they have a fairly huge budget and they have new leadership in the office.

Thank you. The Temporary Chairman (Hon. David Ochieng’): Thank you. Hon. Makali, one minute please.

Hon. Temporary Chairman, I will not even spend a minute. I will just spend a second. This huge budget has money for promotions and recruitment. My plea to the new boss who will be heading this institution is that we need fairness in promotions, recruitment, and in distribution of teachers in this country. We are all children of this country called Kenya. We must be served by our motherland.

Thank you.

Hon. Temporary Chairman, the Office of the Auditor-General plays a very important role in auditing Ministries and Government institutions. I want to point out an important issue to the Chairman of the Budget and Appropriations Committee. Reports of the Auditor-General must form part of the budget- making process. Every day, the Leader of the Majority Party lays papers on reports of the Auditor-General. Can the Chairman of the Committee tell us the role of the reports by the Auditor-General and how they have been factored in this Budget?

The Temporary Chairman

: Hon. Oundo. It is a fair question.

Hon. Temporary Chairman, I sit in the Public Accounts Committee but since the question is directed to the Chairman and he has not paid me to answer on his behalf, I will let him ang’ang’ane na hali yake. I just want to make a plea to the Office of the Auditor-General. It is agreed and documented that this country loses a lot of money through pilferage, corruption and unaccountable loss of money. Now that we continuously enhance their budget and amendments were made to the Act to make it more like a corporate body, let them net all the thieves where there is pilferage and loss and forward the cases to the Ethics and Anti-Corruption Commission (EACC) so that we stop losing money.

The Temporary Chairman

: But Hon. Oundo, you said you sit in the Public Accounts Committee. The Auditor-General has given you several reports. How many have you sent to EACC as a Committee?

The procedure is simple. We table reports and once the House approves, the Public Accounts Committee becomes functus officio and the matters move to the Committee on Implementation. Again, some of the reports by the Auditor-General that come to us do not pick out misdemeanours and the loss and so, we require further forensic audit. We plead with them to rise to the occasion and undertake their mandate as provided for by the Constitution and the Public Audit Act.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Chairman. The Temporary Chairman

: Chairman, respond to this question.

Hon. Temporary Chairman, the Auditor- General works for this House. When they appeared before us, they also complained that this House amends their audit reports. They indicated that, sometimes, they bring stinging reports, but we end up amending them. In my opinion, the blame game is on both sides.

In terms of their budget, we have finally given them the one-line budget which they have been asking for. As you can see in the Estimates, there is only one vote. I would like to urge this House to take their audit reports very seriously because the Auditor-General has some reports that touch on the House itself. We asked the Auditor-General to come and audit the House because even Parliament needs to be audited. The Auditor-General is very independent. Personally, from the presentation she has made to us as Budget and Appropriations Committee, I trust her reports. She is doing a very good job. I would like to ask the Public Accounts Committee to stop interfering with the audit reports they get from the Auditor-General. You cannot ask the Auditor-General to prosecute culprits. That is the work of the Ethics and Anti- Corruption Commission (EACC) .

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Chairman. The Temporary Chairman

: Chairman, before you go, the question that was asked was on the role of those audit reports in the budget-making process. Let me paraphrase it: To what extent do you take into account the recommendations of the Auditor-General?

Hon. Temporary Chairman, we take the reports very seriously. For example, the Auditor-General has given us reports on revenue projections that we normally use to project our revenue here. They have also audited budget performance. We take those reports into account because they are very important.

The Temporary Chairman

: No! We will not open this debate. I will give this chance to only one person who has not spoken this afternoon. No, Hon. Makali! I will only give Hon. Kaluma to speak on this matter and then we close it. Hon. Kaluma, what do you want to say on this?

Hon. Temporary Chairman, I am very happy that the Office of the Auditor-General has been adequately funded before, and even this time. Number one, what we would like to see is not just the implementation of the audit reports, but a situation where if the Auditor-General confirms, through the various reports, the amounts of money we have lost in any financial year, such amounts should be removed from the entire Budget. We have budgets moving from two trillion to three trillion to four trillion and it continues moving and yet, year by year, we know about a trillion that is being stolen. Why do we not use those reports by those audit agencies to reduce the Budget so that we reduce the range that is being corrupted?

Number three, we request the Auditor-General, now that we have fought and Parliament has adequately funded them this financial year, that we do not want corrupt practices within the Audit Office itself. For example, the audit of National Government Constituencies Development Fund (NG-CDF) ….

The Temporary Chairman

: No debate, please.

No, I am not debating. I am just making a point for their consideration. The auditors who are sent to audit NG-CDF move in vehicles with the NG-CDF committee members. How do you move around with the person you are auditing? We need reforms in this area. This Budget also needs to be properly applied.

I thank you, Hon. Temporary Chairman.

The Temporary Chairman

: Hon. Makali, I am sure you will sleep if you do not speak. Okay, go ahead.

Hon. Temporary Chairman, I am happy that we sit together with you in this Committee. What the Auditor-General has said is that this House has let her down because she comes up with very clear recommendations, but we never take them on board. Our Chairman should accept that we have not been doing it. From this financial year to the next one, we must first get the audit reports to our table. If you have misused public resources, we reduce your budget by the same amount. That way, we will help the country.

The Temporary Chairman

: Hon. Members, the Budget and Appropriations Committee works with the Public Accounts Committee reports. There is no single report from the Public Accounts Committee that has recommended that we reduce the Budget. You cannot just wake up, as the Budget and Appropriations Committee, and reduce the Budget. The Budget and Appropriations Committee cannot just wake up one day and reduce the allocation to the Office of the Auditor-General. The onus is on the Public Accounts Committee

(PAC)

to take on those reports, follow through on them and table them before the House. The Budget and Appropriations Committee cannot reduce the allocation to the Office of the Auditor-General without a report from PAC.

Development) during the year ending 30th June 2026 in respect of Vote 2121 (Controller of Budget).

Hon. Temporary Chairman, this is the Office of the Ombudsman. I wish I was in that Departmental Committee because I would not allocate any funds to that Commission. There must be value for money. There is absolutely nothing on public record showing what that Commission has done for Kenya. Just reduce its allocation in future. Just pay the staff salaries because it is a constitutional commission, but they do not do anything.

The Temporary Chairman

: Hon. Kaluma.

Hon. Temporary Chairman, Article 249 of the Constitution requires us to adequately fund those commissions. I am concerned that since you and I came to this Parliament…

The Temporary Chairman

: On 28th March 2013.

I am concerned that since you and I came to the 11th Parliament on 28th March 2013, we have been reducing the budgets of those commissions to the extent that they are not able to discharge their constitutional roles.

The Commission on Administrative Justice does a lot. It receives public complaints which would otherwise go to the Judiciary. How can they discharge that role, including acting as a quasi-judicial tribunal that receives complaints from across the country with an allocation of only Ksh674 million? We are essentially allocating inadequate funds which can only pay salaries, thus leaving them without enough money to discharge their duties.

I have not brought an amendment because it cannot be done but, let us fund that Commission in future. We are giving them just enough funds for their salaries, but not enough for their duties.

The Temporary Chairman

: Hon. Sunkuli should get in touch with the Office of the Ombudsman to know what work they do, so that he appreciates what they are up to.

(Hon. Owen Baya, Hon. Naomi Waqo and Hon. Silvanus Osoro consulted along the gangway)

Order, Members.

Hon. Mayaka.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Chairman. This is one of those authorities that really need proper funding, especially given the latest issue they are dealing with - the case of the late Albert Ojwang’. May his soul rest in peace. That Authority is grossly under-funded. They do not have enough manpower to conduct independent investigations. Therefore, this is one Authority that all Members of Parliament should support in order for them to have adequate funds to do what is necessary and look out for the plight of Kenyans.

Thank you.

I do not want a debate on this matter. Hon. Bashir.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Chairman. The name of this institution is Independent Policing Oversight Authority (IPOA) but, sometimes, they conduct their affairs under the wings of the National Police Service (NPS) . They use the infrastructure of the police officers whom they are supposed to oversee. They are not independent. Sometimes, they travel to areas outside Nairobi using police infrastructure. They hire police helicopters to go and investigate the same police. This is an Authority that needs to be adequately funded, so that it is completely independent of NPS as they do their job.

Hon. Oundo.

Hon. Temporary Chairman, I am generally disappointed by the performance of the Authority. Unless they account for the time they have been in existence, it might be time to think of defunding it completely, especially if they cannot deliver. We lost about 70 young people during the Sufuria and Unga

demonstrations and yet, no police officer has been netted. They were shot by police bullets. We lost those young people during the Generation Z demonstrations. We continue losing many more people who are abducted by police officers. As Hon. Bashir has said, they either become independent or we forget about them.

Thank you. Hon. Sunkuli.

Hon. Temporary Chairman, the Authority really needs to be funded. Someone was killed in Kilgoris last weekend. When I went to see the family, I met two officials from IPOA who came to investigate why the police shot the boy, down at the rural area. They were operating with meagre resources. The way things are now, the more police are accused, the more we need someone to control them. IPOA needs to be funded.

The Temporary Chairman

: Hon. Osoro.

Thank you very, Hon. Temporary Chairman. I also join the rest…

The Temporary Chairman

: Hon. Kaluma, can you say what is out of order?

Sorry? The Temporary Chairman

: You are saying out of order. What is out of order?

Hon. Temporary Chairman, I have not said anything.

The Temporary Chairman

: Okay. Go ahead, Hon. Osoro.

Hon. Temporary Chairman, I also feel that the IPOA is expected to do so much by the public, even by the police themselves but, with meagre resources, that cannot help them mitigate the challenges that they have. I also must appreciate the fact that I have heard several matters, sometimes for and, sometimes, against the IPOA. I must confess that they have so much in their hands. This budget is inadequate. If there is something that we can do to raise it, at least, to about Ksh3 billion or something, we will then give them wings to fly and make them independent. One case that has been mentioned is very true. Sometimes, they move around with police choppers to investigate the police. Yesterday, when the National Police Service was issuing a statement at the Central Police Station, they were there and they were standing on the podium.

The Temporary Chairman

: They were investigating.

They were speaking from a podium that was set up by the police that they are supposed to investigate. All this is about resources.

The Temporary Chairman

: Thank you. Hon. Emaase.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Chairman. I join my colleagues in demanding that we increase the budget for IPOA. There is an increasing number of cases that are affecting police officers. It is not only murder, like the disgusting one where someone was killed in the police station, but many others, even related to gender-based violence in police stations. There is need for this budget to be enhanced for them to even employ more staff and to become independent. Probably, during the Supplementary Estimates I of our Budget, we should increase the budget of IPOA. Thank you.

The Temporary Chairman

: Hon. Kaluma.

I thank you, Hon. Temporary Chairman. I serve in the Committee under which IPOA falls. Our police officers have refused the reforms that were brought by the new Constitution. They are still behaving like a force, not a service. Those police officers are serving Kenyans across the country and yet, this particular Authority barely has even vehicles to move. It barely has petroleum for the few vehicles they have. They barely have staff across the country. I would agree with the Members that if we are

not able to do anything now, for good reasons, let every opportunity to add money to this Authority be utilised so that they can serve the public. Otherwise, they are incapacitated.

The Temporary Chairman (Hon. David Ochieng’): Hon. Baya.

Hon. Temporary Chairman, the current IPOA is a new one. Hardly six months in office. I look forward to them discharging their duties better than the previous one. The previous one just sat and did nothing. We have a new Authority, which this House approved recently. We look forward to better discharge of duties. Also very important to note is, like Hon. Mary Emaase has said, we need to give them more money. The other one probably did not need money because they had no work to do and they did not want to work. This one wants to work. We need to give them more money so that they can do their work.

Hon. Temporary Chairman, the budget for the Judiciary is now stipulated at nearly Ksh27 billion. I want a confirmation from the Chairman of the Budget and Appropriations Committee that this includes the development budget for the courts across the country.

Hon Temporary Chairman, when you and I were in the Departmental Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs, we started a court which was launched by Chief Justice Mutunga and the ground broken by Chief Justice Maraga. It is an eyesore next to the governor’s and the county office in Homa Bay. It has stalled for eons and eons. Could I get the confirmation that we are not just dealing with the court in Homa Bay alone, but all the courts which have not been availed to the judges to dispense justice are going to be completed in this Budget?

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Chairman. The Temporary Chairman

: Hon. Osoro, you have one minute.

Hon. Temporary Chairman, I must appreciate that this has been a progressive appreciation of the Judiciary budget over the years. Looking at a similar vote last year, I must confirm that we have increased the budget to a substantial percentage, but one thing that is very clear about the Judiciary is that they currently have a challenge of staffing. There is a big challenge of staffing and lack of enough men and women on the bench. There is even an advertisement that seeks to have applicants apply for those positions to the bench as magistrates and all those other officers. I also need clarity from the Chairman of the Budget and Appropriations Committee on whether this budget has a provision or vote for recruitment of enough judicial officers. That is also a big challenge across our courts.

The Temporary Chairman

: Chair of the Budget and Appropriations Committee.

Hon. Temporary Chairman, it has been established that the Judiciary is not very good at doing some of those infrastructure projects.

That is the truth. I think it is a Commission that should just focus on dispensing justice. The extent of their engagement in building their courts has become a problem. They have been unable to finish some of their critical infrastructure and this is something that the Budget and Appropriations Committee has taken note of.

We have allocated Ksh1.7 billion in this Budget towards the infrastructure in the Judiciary. I believe that the Departmental Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs should now take it up and follow up to ensure the court in Homa Bay that Hon. Kaluma is talking about is also completed.

The Temporary Chairman (Hon. David Ochieng’): How about the question on staff?

Of course, we have allocated about Ksh1 billion for the recruitment of new staff.

Thank you.

Hon. Temporary Chairman, Article 95

(5)

(b)

of our Constitution provides that one of the functions of the National Assembly is oversight. Article 260 of the Constitution provides that a State organ includes an office or a commission. I want to ask the Clerk of the National Assembly or the Chairman of the Parliamentary Service Commission something. Who oversees the Parliamentary Service Commission

(PSC)

? Which Committee of this House provides oversight over the PSC? Under Chapter 15 on commissions, this is the only commission that is not overseen by this House. This is a very serious issue. Who oversees it even as the Chairman of the Budget and Appropriations Committee allocates money to the Parliamentary Service Commission? In this country, it is the only commission that is not overseen. Thank you. The Temporary Chairman

: I think there is an answer to that. Hon. Sunkuli, take one minute.

I have a question because I have learnt from the Government that the economy has improved. Taking into account that we were operating

under austerity measures, has the budget to Parliament reinstated our travel allowances back to normal? I do not know whether the Chairman has heard it. Hon. Jematiah is still consulting.

Now that austerity measures have ended, I am asking the Chair whether he has reinstated our travel allowances.

The Temporary Chairman

: You have two questions to answer, Hon. Chairman. One: Who oversees the Parliamentary Service Commission? Two: Now that the economy is doing better, whether you have reinstated travel allowances for Members of Parliament. Go ahead.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Chairman. In terms of budgetary allocations, the Budget and Appropriations Committee oversees the Parliamentary Service Commission (PSC) because they come to defend their budget before us. To an extent, we do only that oversight. There is no other oversight we engage in. The only engagement we have with the Parliamentary Service Commission is in the budgetary process. They submit their budgetary estimates to us and we discuss them. That is all we do. I do not know who should do the oversight. Maybe, it is the Liaison Committee. I do not know. I do not want to talk more than that.

On the other issue that Hon. Sunkuli raised, I would like to say that the situation has improved.

The Temporary Chairman

: Hon. Sunkuli, did you hear that?

Firstly, Hon. Temporary Chairman, as much as we support our colleagues on the other side, the Senators, there is a provision of Kshs500 million in this Budget for the Senate Oversight Fund (SOF) . If you read the Constitution, as Members of Parliament, we also play the oversight role, but we do not have such funds.

Secondly, the Senators are more focused on what is happening in the National Assembly, thus forgetting that they are supposed to oversee the county governments. There is a lot of wastage and corruption in the county governments, but we have not seen the Senators talk about it and yet, that is what they are supposed to be doing. In spite of having the Ksh500 million, there is very little to be seen and, therefore, I oppose the SOF. It should be scrapped.

The Temporary Chairman

: Hon. Kaluma.

Hon. Temporary Chairman, I wanted to propose that a sum of Ksh500 million be deducted from this money. This is money that has been put in this Vote to cater for something called the Senate Oversight Fund.

Under Article 240 of the Constitution, as read together with the Salaries and Remuneration Commission Act, the pay or salary remuneration of any public officer is to enable them to discharge their roles. Members of Parliament, whether in the Senate or in the National Assembly, have the role of oversight, representation and legislation. We cannot, therefore, be giving people ‘double pay’ without any legal framework as we speak and yet, we have bodies that require funding and are not being funded.

The Temporary Chairman

: Thank you.

I urge that you get the Chair of Budget and Appropriations to deduct the sum that has been put here as Senate Oversight before we can vote on this.

The Temporary Chairman

: Hon. Baya.

A little bit, Hon. Temporary Chairman. This is the last Vote we are doing. I want to thank you for a good job.

On this Vote for the Senate, I want to say this, and I want the Senators to listen to me as we pass it. They should concentrate on overseeing counties. That is their job. We want counties to be properly managed. The reason we have pilferage and all those issues in the counties is because the Senate is not doing its job. They come here, massage the egos of governors, massage the egos of people who work in the counties, and we do not know what happens after that. Then we see the same issues continue as we give them money. The Senate should concentrate on their job. They were set up to oversee counties. They should stick to their job. The other issues that are national must remain in the National Assembly.

The Temporary Chairman

: Thank you so much.

We will move a Motion here to remove that Oversight Fund Ksh500 million. What is it for? What do they need it for? Those senators are

never even seen in the constituencies or in the counties. They stay here in Nairobi, use their money, have fun, and come here and turn the Senate into a talk show. They talk and talk and do nothing. We do not pay people to just have a talk show.

The Temporary Chairman (Hon. David Ochieng’): Thank you. Chairman of Departmental Committee on Transport and Infrastructure, the Member for Ndia.

George Kariuki (Ndia, UDA): Thank you, Hon. Temporary Chairman. I want to support my colleagues here because I have seen and noted every time senators summon the Cabinet Secretary, say, for Roads and Transport, they ask questions and they follow up on issues that have nothing to do with devolution. Yesterday, I was told by a Chief Executive Officer of a State agency that he has been asked to host Senators somewhere over devolution issues that the institution has nothing to do with. It has nothing to do with the devolved governments and county governments. I want to support that these Senators, who are our colleagues, our friends and our constituents, should focus on the job that they were elected to do. Their job has nothing to do with un-devolved functions.

The Temporary Chairman (Hon. David Ochieng’): Hon. Oundo.

Hon. Temporary Chairman, sometimes, when I stand here to talk about Senators who are our colleagues, I feel very sad. Sad to the extent that the Constitution was clear under Article 96 on what they are supposed to do,. Yet, they cannot do what they are supposed to do. For example, my Senator from Busia County gets Ksh20 million a year for doing nothing. We need to have a sober discussion with them. They either oversee the counties or relinquish the money. If they do not have enough work to do, then probably when we have our next referendum, we should make them work part-time so that they come, do gumzo mtaani, and then go away.

The Temporary Chairman

: Thank you.

You find them doing what they are doing because they are not busy. They do not do budgets as we do. Today, we had the

Committee on Supply. They have spent the whole day talking about summoning a Cabinet

Hon. Temporary Chairman, I want to join my colleagues in stating that the Senate is cut out for defending and upholding devolution. Of late, we see Cabinet Secretaries and State Departments appearing before the Senate on matters that have nothing to do with devolution. I do not know what will happen if, for example, our committees or the National Assembly was to summon Governors. How will that look like? Why would someone summon the Minister for Defence and yet we are not allowed to summon a governor. We need to have a robust discussion on this matter. I urge both Speakers to engage on this matter. Issues that are national should be left for the National Assembly and issues of devolution left for the counties. It will look ugly if we summon governors. What about the Senate summoning the Minister for Defence? We need to have a robust discussion so that we engage the Senators and have time lines on what they need to do.

The Temporary Chairman

: Thank you. Hon. Chair of the Budget and Appropriations Committee, what do you have to say about this? Go ahead.

Hon. Temporary Chairman, I have taken note of the Members’ concerns about the Senate Vote. I partly agree with them that, other than the Senator for Siaya, Dr Oburu Odinga, who is doing a very good job as a Senator, the other Senators are too young and they need to be given more active jobs than what they are currently given by the Constitution.

(Laughter) I agree with Members that, perhaps, the young senators need to come to the National Assembly where there is a lot of work. The reason they are all over the place is because the Constitution limits their responsibilities and most of them are very active. They want to jump up and down. We will look at that budget when we get to appropriations.

The Temporary Chairman (Hon. David Ochieng’): Hon. Members. I remember we declared a cessation of hostilities. We said that we are the bigger House. As you vote on this matter, I would like you to be the bigger brother. Let us be the bigger House. The issues you have raised are very important but, we cannot use the Budget as an avenue for solving them.

Hon. Temporary Chairman, I beg to move that the Committee of Supply do report to the House its consideration of the Budget Estimates for Financial Year 2025/2026, and its approval thereof with amendments.

Thank you.

Hon. Deputy Speaker, I beg to report that the Committee of Supply has considered the Budget Estimates for the Financial Year 2025/2026, and approved the same with amendments.

Hon. Deputy Speaker, I beg to move that the House do agree with the Report of the Committee of Supply in its consideration of the Budget Estimates for the year 2025/2026 and, pursuant to the provisions of Article 221 of the Constitution, Section 39 of the Public Finance Management Act, CAP. 412A and Standing Order 240A, approves the issuance of a sum of Ksh2,549,543,978,440 from the Consolidated Fund to meet the expenditure for the National Executive, Parliament and the Judiciary during the year ending 30th June 2026 in respect of the Votes as contained in the Schedule, while incorporating the proposed amendments.

I request Hon. (Dr) Makali Mulu to second the Motion.

Hon. Deputy Speaker, I do second.

Yes, Hon. Kaluma. Those who are interested in contributing can go to the intervention button.

Thank you very much, Hon. Deputy Speaker. I am a very happy Member of Parliament today. I have gone through the Votes and also read through the Estimates, and it pleases me that for the first time in the history of this country, we are passing a Budget without much contestation. It is a Budget which is spread through all the sectors of Government in reasonable terms. It is also enabling all sections and regions of the country to get some element of development.

I was very pleased when I saw in the specific Estimates a road that is going to come from Mandera, through Wajir to Garissa for the first time. When the President mentioned some of these things, they thought they were just mere indications of the need for interventions for all Kenyans. I am happy we have provided for such facilities.

The Cabinet Secretary in charge of the National Treasury and Economic Planning told us that across the Tana River, and Hon. Owen Baya knows, there is this river that the children in Tana River have been crossing each morning going to and from school. It is a crocodile- infested river and I am happy I have seen money there to address the issue.

Though I have not seen much for my constituency, and I know it is because we hosted Madaraka Day a short while back and there was a lot of intervention, I am very happy that the entire breadth of the nation, indeed, is going to feel a bit of this national cake.

Lastly, going into the future, there is a matter which has been highlighted here by Members in the Committee of Supply, which we need to take the earliest opportunity when we sit again to look at it very seriously. It is sad that the Senator for Nairobi gets, in addition to his salary, over Ksh50 million each year just to say nonsense on television breakfast shows and it is considered oversight. That is double pay because under the Constitution, the salary he is getting is for that purpose. He is paid Ksh50 million for saying nonsense while several agencies do not have money. Let us take the earliest opportunity possible when we are considering the supplementary budget to shred off those monies and channel them to constitutional purposes of service to the public. I fully support and thank the Budget and Appropriations Committee for securing inclusivity and equity in this year’s Budget.

I thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker.

Member for Funyula.

Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. I am also happy and I must pay tribute to my young brother, Hon. Atandi, for going through this rigorous process. We might have been hard on him, but that is the only way he can get harder. That is how we are brought up where I come from.

There is an issue that was raised by Hon. Kangogo: The nexus between reports by the Office of the Auditor-General and the budget-making process. I would like to bring to the attention of the Budget and Appropriations Committee two areas of focus they need to look into next time. Normally, in each State department, there is a budgetary performance report that highlights what was appropriated, what was disbursed and what was spent. That is where the focus should be. It makes no sense to appropriate funds to a department that has no capacity to absorb the funds. It also does not make sense to appropriate funds which are never disbursed by the National Treasury.

On average, 30 per cent of development funds are never disbursed by the end of a financial year. That makes the entire budgeting process academic. I raised the same matter at the beginning, but the Chairman took it personal, thinking that I was playing broad-based Government politics instead of performing my duties under Article 95 of the Constitution. I

was only bringing it to his attention because I have sat in the Public Accounts Committee for the last four years and I understand. The nexus must be built. I would suggest that, at the commencement of the budget-making process, the Budget and Appropriations Committee should look at the blue book or various reports prepared by the Public Accounts Committees and Public Investment Committees. This will guide us on how much to allocate. It will also be a lesson on when to budget and when to emphasise disbursement.

Otherwise, Hon. Deputy Speaker, I thank you very much. We will look at the Printed Estimates and see what Hon. Kaluma has gloriously talked about, whether it is happening on the ground or it is just political rhetoric we are fed every Saturday and Sunday on various platforms. We will look at it and come back to discuss it in the House.

Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker.

Hon. Irene Mayaka.

Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. Let me take this opportunity to congratulate the Budget and Appropriations Committee, led by my brother, Hon. Sam Atandi, for the great job they have done. I take particular note of what the Chairman has communicated to us in regard to Vote 1091 on roads. He said that they have taken into consideration the need for equal distribution of resources to all parts of Kenya. He has promised to share a list on the same and so, I will be very keen to see that Nyamira County is considered in that distribution.

I am also very happy that the State Department for East African Community Affairs has been allocated funds. On numerous occasions, they have been under-funded. The allocation is a good indication.

On the Senate Oversight Fund, it is provided in the Constitution that both the National Assembly and the Senate perform oversight function. We need to look at this Fund again. If we are not all getting the Oversight Fund, then let us not get it. It cannot only be one House that is getting that Fund yet we perform the same functions. That goes against the grain of the Constitution. Let us just agree to be satisfied with the current salary that we have but, if the Oversight Fund is going to anyone, then it should be to both Houses. If not, everyone should miss out on it.

I thank you.

Member for Baringo County.

Thank you so much, Hon. Deputy Speaker. I also add my comments on the passing of the Budget. This is an opportunity for Kenya to utilise this year's Budget in many ways. It is a Budget that has given us a sense of equity. As we look forward to this Budget’s utilisation, most of the monies we have allocated will impact Kenyans in many ways, specifically on electricity, the Social Health Authority (SHA) , and Technical Vocational Education and Training (TVET) . As we pass it today, I urge Kenyans to embrace this Budget because it is owned by all of us. To the beneficiaries of this Budget, we will work towards building this country together.

Thank you.

Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. I also wish to add my voice. I think it is a critical time for the country, especially when we are doing such allocations. Departments like the Ministry of Health are very critical for mothers across the country. Right now, we have a crisis of vaccines. I speak as a mother and so, I am very happy when I see that the Ministry of Health has also been allocated the amounts of monies that are needed to support it. Equally on security, I come from a region that has a lot of security issues and so, I speak as somebody who has vested interests. It is very important that we support our police officers and the security teams, so that we can address issues on abductions and insecurity in our regions.

Thank you.

We can have one more Member. Let us have Hon. Emaase first.

Hon. Deputy Speaker, I also commend the Budget and Appropriations Committee for a good job. In particular, I appreciate the amount of fairness and the manner in which they have tried to address the issue of equity in the distribution of resources. When I look at the Bottom-Up Economic Transformation Agenda (BETA) and sports, I see sports academies spread across the country with, of course, one in Teso South. That is a very good job.

My only plea is to the ministries. Most of these monies have gone to the ministries as a block figure for them to distribute to the various programmes and priorities within their sectors. Please make sure that you distribute this money taking into consideration all parts of the country so that each part of this country can feel the development that the Government is doing.

Additionally, the committees, especially the departmental committees, should each take their roles seriously to make sure they carry out oversight. It is true that we are not making very good use of the audit reports. We need to take up the audit reports, do our oversight, assess the status of completion of projects and, if possible, visit those projects. I thank the Committee.

In the road sector, we are looking forward and we will be following keenly to see how the roads have been distributed across the country. I am also very happy that for the first time, again, in Teso South, the Butula-Nambale-Amukura-Amagoro Road will be done.

Thank you.

Hon. Members, for obvious reasons, we will not put the Question. It will be put at an appropriate time.

Hon. Members, the time being 8.40 p.m. the House stands adjourned until Wednesday, 11th June 2025, at 9.30 a.m.

The House rose at 8.40 p.m.

Published by Clerk of the National Assembly Parliament Buildings Nairobi