November 9, 2017 SENATE DEBATES Thursday, 9th November, 2017

Order Senators! I have a Message to the Senate from the National Assembly on the establishment of a Joint Parliamentary Select Committee on election of Members to the East African Legislative Assembly (EALA) .

Pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order No. 41 of the National Assembly Standing Orders, I hereby transmit a Message to the---

consulted with the Clerks-at-the-Table) Sorry, I am reading the wrong thing. Hon. Senators, I have a Message to the Senate from the National Assembly on the establishment of a Joint Parliamentary Select Committee on election of Members to the East African Legislative Assembly, (EALA) .

I wish to report to the Senate that pursuant to Standing Order No. 41 (3) and (4) ---

I will sit down to allow the Senate Minority Leader and the Majority Whip to make their way to the Chamber.

Thank you for the courtesy, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Senate Chief Whip, next time you are given that privilege, you should use the shortest route possible to your destination.Do not start exploring all the various routes to your destination.

provide secretariat services in accordance with the Standing Orders; and,

Senate Majority Leader, are there any Papers to be laid on the Table?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to lay the following Papers on the Table of the Senate, today, Thursday, 9th November, 2017:-

The National Cohesion and Integration Commission Annual Report 2016;

Yes, Senate Majority Leader; did you talk about something else or is it about the weekly Statement?

Yes, it is the weekly Statement.

That will come a little later.

As you know, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir; you have done it before.

As I used to know.

Let us go to Order No.7; Statements. Call out the Order first.

for Kitui is giving himself the microphone illegally and he has also made a request. Do you still want to request for the Statement?

Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Go ahead.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.46 (2) (b) to seek a Statement from the Senate Majority Leader on the state of insecurity in Ngomeni Ward, Mwingi North Constituency in Kitui County, which has resulted in a spate of killings of residents in some parts of the ward.

In the Statement, the Majority Leader should respond to the following questions:-

Thank you. We have two other Senators who have requested to be given an opportunity to request for statements. Even if they are not on the Order Paper, I will allow Sen. Halake to request for a statement.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.46 (2) (b) to seek a Statement from The Senate Majority Leader on the status of Kenya regarding the Hague Convention of---

Order, Senator! Just one second; I am sorry to interrupt you. Please, resume your seat.

Senate Majority Leader, when can we have the response to the question by the Senator for Kitui County?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I think a week after we come back from the short break, if at all it will be approved. So, I am looking at the first week of December.

Would it not be easier to say in a week’s time? Or if there is recess, the first day of resumption, whichever comes early?

Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Thank you.

Is that okay, Sen. Wambua?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am much obliged.

Thank you. Sen. Halake, you can now resume your request for statement.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.46 (2) (b) , to request a statement from the Senate Majority Leader on the status of Kenya regarding the Hague Convention on the Civil Aspects of International Child Abduction.

In the Statement, the Senate Majority Leader should address the issues below.

and not left vulnerable to kidnapping, with the only recourse for parents to abducted children being the jurisdiction of foreign courts?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, could we adopt the same method; that is either two weeks or the week that we will come back from the recess,whichever comes first.

Senator, resume your seat in haste. Sen. Halake, are you happy with the response from the Senate Majority Leader?

Yes, I am.

It is so ordered. The other request for a Statement is from the Senator for Makueni.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise to seek a statement from the Senate Majority Leader on the Kenya Electricity Transmission Company (KETRACO) Sultan Hamud-Mwingi high voltage power line project.

In the Statement, the Senate Majority Leader should:-

Senate Majority Leader, is it the same story?

Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I just want to remind the House that I am only doing this out of the abundance of

Senate Majority Leader issue statements.

You are out of order, Sen. Murkomen. You know the tradition of this House; so, that line of argument is not helpful. You better tell the Senator for Makueni County when he will get his answer.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I think the first week when we come back. The reason I raised what I raised is so that Senators do not take it for granted; not when you were doing it or I am doing it.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Senate Majority Leader was not specific. But I thought that, maybe there was an induction course for Majority leaders which he missed, because he is arguing with you. We have not confirmed that we are having a recess. So, when he says one week after recess, what does he mean?

Be specific, Senate Majority Leader.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I think if the Senator for Makueni County was attentive, he would have appreciated your Statement. He is arguing with you because it is you who ruled that let it suffer the same fate, which is known to the House, unless he was not attentive when you were speaking. So, it suffers the same fate. He will go to the HANSARD to find out what the fate was.

Thank you, Senate Majority Leader. Order, Senators!The proposal form the Senate Majority Leader is that he is able to respond to the Statements within two weeks or, should the Senate adjourn longer than two weeks, on the first day of resumption of the sittings.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, that is very clear. Thank you.

It is so ordered. Can we now have the statements to be issued? I know that we have several. Senate Majority Leader, I think your Statements will come later. The earlier you start appreciating the consequences of your office, the better. So, you will give your Statement last.

There is one Statement where the relevant Senator asked that we deferissuing it; that is Statement 4 (II) (a) for Sen. Cheruiyot. Could we have the others?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I suspect that you meant Sen. Cherargei because he consulted with me on the same. The reason I raised the issue of abundance of generosity earlier is because I am issuing all statements. I should not be in this situation. The response to Statement 4 (II) (b) is available. It was shared yesterday with Sen. Were and I will go ahead to read it.

Proceed.

November 9, 2017 SENATE DEBATES HOSPITALS IN THE COUNTRY

The Statement was provided by the Principal Secretary in the Ministry of Health.

The Statement sought that we indicate the cumulative period in which nurses in public hospitals in the country have been on strike for the last five years. The nurses have been on strike for 191days cumulatively for the past five years. The Senator also wanted us to table the scheme of service for nurses and the respective salaries and allowances for each job group under the scheme. Attached is the current scheme of service for nurses and the commensurate basic salaries and allowances for each grade which was also shared with the Senator. The Senator also wanted an explanation as to whom between the National Government and the Council of Governors (CoG) is mandated to negotiate and sign the Collective Bargaining Agreement (CBA) with the Kenya National Union of Nurses (KNUN) . It is the mandate of the respective employers to negotiate and sign CBAs with KNUN. The Ministry negotiates and signs for nurses only employed by the Ministry of Health, while the respective county governments negotiate for nurses in their employment. The Statement also sought why the strike by the nurses has taken too long to resolve. The strike by nurses was called off on 2nd November, 2017. The strike took long to resolve because the cost of demands by the nurses could not be absorbed by the Government. The nurses persisted with their demands even as the Government made counter offers that it could afford.

The Senator also wanted us to table the list of counties where nurses in public hospitals are currently on strike and the counties whose nurses are not on strike. Currently, the strike has been called off and all the nurses are now back to work at both levels of Government. The nurses performing duties under the national Government resumed duty way earlier in September 2017, while those under the county government resumed duty on 2nd November, 2017.

The Statement also sought an explanation regarding the measures the Government has put in place to alleviate the suffering of patients during the period when nurses are on strike. During the strike the Government took the following measures to alleviate the suffering of patients:-

held to update each party on developments.

(ii) In the period leading to the calling off of the strike, a consultative meeting involving the Ministry of Health, the national Government, the county public service boards, the CoG and the KNUN was convened to find a common understanding and resolve the strike. The meeting achieved this objective and, thus, resulting in the signing of a return to work formula. Among the agreements reached was the commencement of conclusion of the CBA by the nurses within 30 days.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, that is the answer in my position as the Senate Majority Leader. Once the committees are formed, the Committee on Health will have to do a thorough job on the Health Bill and the implementation thereof and proper auditing of what we now call referral hospitals. There have been many strikes surrounding the area of health and we need to resolve that. I hope that the Members who will serve in the Committee on Health will do a thorough job to end the continuous strikes.

We must look at health structure and ensure that those who serve in the counties accept where they serve and that not all counties will have strikes at the same time. It will depend on which county has met their commitment with the health workers. In future, the Committee of Health should lead this House in doing a thorough audit of the laws and issues.

Unless there are follow-up questions, I will issue the next Statement.

Sen. Were, are you satisfied with the Statement?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am satisfied with the statement. I am happy that the strike has ended and there is no more suffering of Kenyans, especially those who were dying from simple diseases like Malaria. I am happy that we shall now be able to help the people in the villages.

Thank you, Senator. What is it, Sen. Cherargei?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, he is still learning.

Very well. Please, proceed, Senate Majority Leader.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, on a serious note, the officers who support us must remind Members which button is meant for points of order and which one is for substantive contributions. There is nothing wrong with that. When we came here for the first time we also learnt. Everybody must learn so that we can move faster.

Sen. Cherargei is sharp. He was one of my sharpest students.

Order, Senate Majority Leader. It is not your business to tell us which Senator is sharp and which one is not. All Senators are sharp.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, you had the privilege of teaching me and, on this Floor, you said that I was very sharp. Therefore, I must extend the same to Sen. Cherargei.

The Senate Majority Leader, do not modify. The statement from the Chair is that all Senators are very sharp.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the other Statements by Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. and Sen. (Dr.) Musuruve are not ready yet. They are important, but not ready. We will ensure that we deliver them as soon as possible when they will be ready. I have consulted accordingly with the relevant Ministries and they are working on them. Hopefully, we will come back to the Senators the first week when we return, that is if this House will approve the short break.

What do you have to say, Sen. (Dr.) Musuruve?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I appreciate the response that I have received from the Senate Majority Leader; that my statement is not ready. I was surprised that it was listed on the Order Paper, yet I do not have a copy.

However, at the beginning of the week I received a copy of the statement that I requested on access to Government procurement opportunities---

Is that a different statement?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it was meant to be issued today. This is the copy that was handed to me.

Is the Statement on the Order Paper? We go by the business on the Order Paper, unless anything else is approved by the Speaker.

For the time being, we have noted that you are telling the Senate Majority Leader to hasten and give you the current statement as soon as possible.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, since I already have the Statement, my request is that it needs to be in the Order Paper.

Is it the same statement that the Senate Majority Leader was to respond to today?

The Senate Majority Leader, the Senator says that she already has a Statement which you do not have. I thought you should be the one to give her the statement.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have a statement on access to Government procurement.

Order, Senator. Please, resume your seat.

statement. Since it is not in today’s Order Paper, the Senate Business Committee will slot it in the next sitting.

and Motions that are due for consideration.

I wish you a blessed time during the short recess as you interact with the people you represent.

I thank you and hereby lay the Statement on the Table.

Right. Thank you, the Senate Leader of Majority.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.34 where I am seeking for the Senate to adjourn today’s session with a view of discussing the urgent matter that is currently obtaining in our county assemblies where I feel they are discussing matters outside their roles as provided for under the law.

Maybe to explain further, we have seen the National Super Alliance (NASA) Coalition going to various county assemblies, moving them to discuss matters which are not under county functions. We have a schedule that is clearly set out in the law which clearly details the roles of a county assembly.

Order, Senator! Are you giving Notice of Motion, moving a Motion, are you on a Point of Order, or debating a Motion? What are you doing, Senator for Murang’a County?

Order, Senator! Please resume your sit. I know you had submitted a request to be allowed to move a Motion which was looked at and you were advised accordingly. Nevertheless, unless, you want to approach the Chair if you have any additional information, I would be happy just to communicate to the House the advice that the Chair gave you and then we rest that matter for now.

Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Maybe, because my supporters were waiting for the Motion, they need to know that---

Have you come here with supporters?

Yes. Sorry, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I mean fellow Senators. Thank you.

Okay, resume your sit, Senator. I will give some direction around that in a short while. Meanwhile, could we have the point of order from Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr.?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, in the previous order of the statements, the one that had been misdirected to the wrong ministry, I appreciate the fact that Sen. Fatuma Dullo was kind enough to forward the email to me. However, for purposes of the system’s tracker we have, the Senate Majority Leader should have indicated when the statement will be issued. Thank you.

Yes, the Senate Majority Leader. The same fate, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. For avoidance of doubt, the first week if the recess will be approved, if not, in the next two weeks.

Yes, Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr.

No objection, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Thank you. So ordered. What is it Sen. Moses Wetangula? The Senate Minority Leader (Sen. Wetangula) : Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, you said you were going to give direction on the issue raised by the distinguished Senator for Murang’a. Ordinarily, we do not debate such issues when they are raised. However, the law enjoins us to raise matters of competence and relevance when matters come to the floor. If we will entertain any objections then you can allow us to move the Chair to disallow the request on grounds of incompetence and a violation of our Standing Orders.

You cannot do that, Sen. Wetangula, please.

You cannot do that, Sen. Wetangula, please.

What is it, Senator for Kirinyaga County?

On a point of order---

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have tremendous respect for the Chair generally and this Chair in particular. I was not in any way questioning the capacity or ability or indeed the resolve of the Chair to give us direction. However, ordinarily, even when the Chair has made up its mind and knows the law, it listens to its Members.

Well said. However, for the time being, the reason I did not want us to prolong this discussion is because we have a very busy afternoon. Technically, any agenda that has not found its way in the Order Paper is no agenda. So, as much as we would want to debate current affairs, things we have read in newspapers and blogs, we want to save time so that we process the Bill on County Allocation of Revenue. That is why I am really pleading with honourable Members that we use this afternoon time well. Otherwise, for the sake of Sen. Kang’ata and perhaps Members - I assume there are Members who might have been interested in his proposed Motion---

We have no supporters here. Sen. Kang’ata had approached the Chair with an intention of bringing a Motion, but the Motion is not drafted properly.

What is it, Senator for Kirinyaga County?

He is called Kirinyaga. Sorry, he is the Senator for Nyeri.

Yes. Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. By the way, for good information to this House, Kirinyaga refers to the original name of Mount Kenya. That is where Kenya got its name. So, even the district just borrowed the name. It is a very revered name especially by us who believe God comes through there.

Order Senator. Who is ‘us’? You should have specified especially the people of a,b,c,d. Do not say, especially by “us”.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, by ‘us’ I meant the people of Kenya. I have definitely very high respect for your judgement. However, on the matter that was mentioned by Sen. Kang’ata, I beseech you that at whatever opportune time, there is something that seems to be coming up. These discussions at the counties are not just that. They are talking about some sections which is a very serious---.

Order Senator. What is it Sen. Wetangula?

The Senate Minority Leader (Sen. Wetangula) : Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I just want to extend magnanimity to the Chair and the House and request you to remind the exuberant distinguished Senator for Murang’a to acquaint himself with Standing Orders, particularly, No. 90 (5) . This House cannot discuss the National Assembly or assemblies in the counties that are parliaments like we are. Our own Standing Orders enjoin us to render respect to those Houses.

We cannot purport to police, micromanage or appear in any way to superintend over the work of the county assemblies. We cannot do that

He is called Kirinyaga. Sorry, he is the Senator for Nyeri.

Yes. Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. By the way, for good information to this House, Kirinyaga refers to the original name of Mount Kenya. That is where Kenya got its name. So, even the district just borrowed the name. It is a very revered name especially by us who believe God comes through there.

Order Senator. Who is ‘us’? You should have specified especially the people of a,b,c,d. Do not say, especially by “us”.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, by ‘us’ I meant the people of Kenya. I have definitely very high respect for your judgement. However, on the matter that was mentioned by Sen. Kang’ata, I beseech you that at whatever opportune time, there is something that seems to be coming up. These discussions at the counties are not just that. They are talking about some sections which is a very serious---. Order Senator. What is it Sen. Wetangula? The Senate Minority Leader (

Thank you Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for the directions you gave. I will abide by what you said. That actually settles what we used to do in the past where we used to come and discuss Bills when they started in the National Assembly and we had a quarrel with them. Maybe from now henceforth, we will not complain about what will happen in any Chamber, going forward.

this matter and not over---

(Sen. Wetangula spoke off-record) Order, Senator! That is not a dignified way of prosecuting your agenda. I will insist that we will not entertain anything that can bring this House into disrepute when I am on this Chair. We can do the other things in the lounge, public rallies or somewhere else but not in this Chamber.

If the Motion is restructured and crafted in a way that does not run afoul to Standing Order 90(5),it is so ordered and that is the end of this matter.

On a point of order Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Is it on a different issue?

No, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. No, Senate Majority Leader. You should lead by example. When the Chair makes a directive, the number one supporter and enforcer should be the Majority Leader followed by the Minority Leader, in that order. Let us leave this matter.

On that note, are we through with the Notices of Motion? Let us have them. Proceed Majority Leader.

Thank you Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for the directions you gave. I will abide by what you said. That actually settles what we used to do in the past where we used to come and discuss Bills when they started in the National Assembly and we had a quarrel with them. Maybe from now henceforth, we will not complain about what will happen in any Chamber, going forward.

Order, Senators.

Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr., you are the one who has been making the loudest noise. I am saying that with a light touch because Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr., is my friend.

Order, Senators! I will not let you get away with that.

Hon. Senators, I want to be extremely clear. As long as I am seated here I will not entertain anything that can bring this House into disrepute. Leader of the Minority, you are the biggest suspect and culprit in this House. Every time you wake up, you want to demean somebody, you want somebody to look bad and small. When you are a leader, you should be able to make other people look good and important. Let us not belabor this.

Order! Leader of the Majority! Kindly, that warning has gone to all of us. It will be enforced strictly. What is it Sen. Murkomen?

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. The Minority Leader violated the same Standing Order he relied on to castigate the Motion by Sen. Kang’ata. At that point in time, you had ruled that you will not entertain this. The only way to remove what the Minority Leader said about a Leader of the Majority in the National Assembly, whether he named him in person or in general

On a point of Order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Just as a matter of interest and following precedence in the House, I know we consulted with the distinguished Senator for Elgeyo-Marakwet. However, the precedent that we have set and more particularly in the last Senate was that where we have such bipartisan committees, we always presented equal Members. Where we had adversarial committees that were to reflect the strengths of the Houses then the opposite side always took more.

since the opposite side has named three senators, following precedent set in the previous House--- I know I ought to have talked to my distinguished colleague earlier but I did not have the time. It will be fair and just that we give an additional name so that we have three from each side. We do not expect them to go and engage in any unhealthful contest and, even the previous East African Legislative Assembly Committee that we had, we had three senators from both sides. We had balanced it at that level.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the relevant Standing Order is No.182 on Criteria for Nomination. It is clear that:-

“In nominating a Senator to serve in a Select Committee, the Senate Business Committee shall ensure that the membership of each Committee reflects the relative majorities of the seats held by each of the Parliamentary parties in the Senate.”

Therefore, there is no Standing Order for bipartisan committees. It makes it more complicated because the National Assembly has already nominated five people. Since it is a Joint Committee, there must be equal numbers from both Houses.

Yes, Minority Leader. The Senate Minority Leader (

The chips lie where they have fallen for now. However, in the next similar process I encourage the distinguished Senator for Elgeyo-Marakwet to liaise with his endless talking Leader in the other House to always remember that in bipartisan Committees we have always gone with equal numbers.

“nil by mouth”!

What is it, Sen. Cheruiyot?

Order, Senators! I will not let you get away with that.

Hon. Senators, I want to be extremely clear. As long as I am seated here I will not entertain anything that can bring this House into disrepute. Leader of the Minority, you are the biggest suspect and culprit in this House. Every time you wake up, you want to demean somebody, you want somebody to look bad and small. When you are a leader, you should be able to make other people look good and important. Let us not belabor this.

Order! Leader of the Majority! Kindly, that warning has gone to all of us. It will be enforced strictly. What is it Sen. Murkomen?

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. The Minority Leader violated the same Standing Order he relied on to castigate the Motion by Sen. Kang’ata. At that point in time, you had ruled that you will not entertain this. The only way to remove what the Minority Leader said about a Leader of the Majority in the National Assembly, whether he named him in person or in general

no other way we can possibly say we overlook the matter for now. The only way to expunge from the record is when he withdraws and apologizes.

Now, Majority Leader and Minority Leader, this House depends on the two of you to make progress. I have already pronounced myself on that issue, we will not reopen it. The issue raised by the Majority Leader is valid. Leader of the Minority, in one sentence make an undertaking that----. You first of all withdraw and then make an undertaking that, going forward, we will not be having these kinds of things. Let us stick to the issues. The Senate Minority Leader (

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, first of all , the complaining Majority Leader has not pointed out which Standing Order I have violated. Secondly, Standing Order 94 (1) is on “Responsibility for Statement of fact.” It states:- “A Senator shall be responsible for the accuracy of any facts that the Senator alleges to be true and maybe required to substantiate any such facts instantly.” In a subsequent Standing Order, he or she may be given time to substantiate later.

Let us proceed. Senate Minority Leader, you have heard me clearly. Next time I will not be very kind. That should act as a notice to you.

Hon. Senators, we were on notices of Motions. Senate Majority Leader!

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, let me conclude. I can bring a pile of HANSARDs from the lower House to demonstrate my point. I can also go to the media Houses and bring clips, including electronic transmissions of endless talking---

Resume your seat, Sen. Wetangula. You are a lawyer of long standing. You know very well, even within the legal system there are things considered vexatious and frivolous. I am surprised that a ranking Member like you of this House is trying to demonstrate how a Member of another House talks endlessly and wants to be given time to prove that. We must use our time and that of the House very well. Sen. Wetangula, do you want it to go on record that the Leader of the Minority of the Senate has said that the Leader of the Majority in the National Assembly talks endlessly? Is that what you want the HANSARD of this House to reflect for posterity? Is it something that you can proudly say you want to protect? Is that something you want to hang on? The Senate Minority Leader (

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, if you allow me to remind you, when you were leading the other side in the last Parliament - and I can bring the HANSARD - you used much stronger language against offending Members of that House on this floor, more particularly at that time, the Member for Mbeere South, who was the then Chairperson of the Budget Committee. He was overreaching himself on every issue against the Senate. You described that Member in a language stronger and more offensive. “Talking endlessly”, in fact, for a representative of the people is a compliment. They are elected to and paid to talk. It is not an offensive word. In fact, I would be very happy if any Senator here tells me that I talk endlessly. I will not feel offended at all because that is what I am

“nil by mouth”!

What is it, Sen. Cheruiyot?

Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, sadly, we are increasingly being treated to these kinds of debates every afternoon. It is not for lack of what to say that the Members you see in this House do not speak. We respect the dignity of this House and keep quiet each afternoon. Twenty to 30 minutes of our time, in my considered opinion, is wasted on these kinds of issues. Could you be firm and ensure that when you give a ruling, let it be final so that we make progress? We have important business to attend to. We come to this House because we respect it, but not to be entertained by side-shows every now and then.

What is it, Sen. Yusuf Haji?

Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, he could have his own reason for saying that. However, the fact that the Chair requested you to withdraw those words, there is no harm in doing so. If you do that we can proceed.

Thank you.

Lastly, Sen. Seneta.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me a chance; I was almost concluding that you are biased because---

Order, Senator! Proceed with your point of order before you are out of order.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise on a point of order pursuant to Standing Order No. 91. It states: “A Senator who has used exceptionable words and declines to explain or retract the words or to offer apologies for the use of the words to the satisfaction of the Speaker, shall be deemed to be disorderly and shall be dealt with in accordance with the rules pertaining to disorderly conduct.” Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is quite unfortunate that yesterday the Senate Minority Leader confirmed proudly that he is the Senate Minority Leader of this House. Indeed, we appreciated that you received a letter giving him the status of the Senate Minority Leader in this House. If he is wasting our time by bringing issues regarding other leaders who are not here to defend themselves, then I request that you rule that he is disorderly. Order, Senators. I think we have exhausted that point. Sen. Wetangula, it does no harm, as Sen. Haji has said, to withdraw those words. Thank you, Sen. Haji, for continually helping us to do our work well. You will still have an opportunity in your political activities to politic and comment out there. I heard you trying to discuss the past conduct of the Chair in some other life elsewhere. I urge you, for purposes of record, to withdraw that part, so that we close this business and move on amicably. This will ensure a conducive environment to run our affairs. The Senate Minority Leader, it will do you no harm because that will help us proceed. The Senate Minority Leader (

Actually it is Sitswila Amos Wako in that order. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I just want to support the submission by Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. by offering more legal arguments. Article 202 of the Constitution states that:

“ (1) Revenue raised nationally shall be shared equitably among the national and county governments.

Let us proceed. Senate Minority Leader, you have heard me clearly. Next time I will not be very kind. That should act as a notice to you.

Hon. Senators, we were on notices of Motions. Senate Majority Leader!

Thank you. Yes, Sen. (Dr.) Kabaka, Senator for Machakos County. You have two minutes.

Proceed, Senate Majority Leader. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move the Motion that the County Allocation of Revenue (Amendment) Bill (Senate Bill No. 9 of 2017) be now read a Second Time.

An

Well done.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me a chance also to support this Bill. From the onset, I want to congratulate those Members who have been nominated to sit and look into the amendments. I also want to urge them to really look at the amendment carefully and make sure that they come up with something that can help our counties.

I only want to raise a concern that as we allocate these monies to the counties for the purpose of acquiring equipment for our health centres and health facilities in our counties, we should make sure that they do not only have the equipment but also the human resource to attend to our people.

There is an outcry from patients who go to our hospitals and miss medical staff to attend to them. These patients also lack medicine. Therefore, as Members of this House, we should make sure that we follow up and see that whatever funds allocated to our counties are well utilised according to the allocations they have been given.

Thank you. Yes, Sen. Cheruiyot, Kericho County.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, just to answer Sen. Murkomen, we must have fidelity to this law, the Constitution and fear God. We cannot discuss the conduct of an independent institution like a county assembly. That is as clear as a, b, c.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I wanted to raise a point of order before because I am told that the committee that we approved yesterday was to table a report. I had sought to know whether the declaration by the Cabinet Secretary (CS) in charge of Finance and National Treasury, Mr. Henry Rotich, is legal to the extent that equitable share of revenue has not been remitted to counties because of the amendments that we seek to have in this Bill.

The Senate must pronounce itself and since the Senate Majority Leader has not pronounced himself, I want to say that Mr. Henry Rotich has violated the Constitution. Article 219 is very clear and it states that:

“A county’s share of revenue raised by the national government shall be transferred to the county without undue delay and without deduction, except when the transfer has been stopped under Article 225.”

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the principal object of this Bill is to amend the County Allocation of Revenue Bill No.23 of 2017 to replace the Third Schedule of the Bill on conditional grants to county allocations. While we agree that there might be discrepancies in schedules and particularly on conditional grants, we must tell the national Government, through the CS Treasury, that counties cannot wallow while they sit in their offices here in Nairobi to amend schedules on conditional grants, which they have engaged with other partners on their own without the involvement of the Senate.

While I support this, this Senate must make a resolution that in future we will not entertain the violation of the Constitution on shareable revenue because that is something that we passed in the Division of Revenue Bill and this House has very little to do with conditional grants. As far as I am concerned, we do not audit conditional grants. What we do here is nothing less than being a conveyer belt for national Government. Those reports do not come to us.

We have a role in Article 96 to protect counties and their governments. Shareable revenue should not be tied to conditional grants by the national Government. Otherwise, what will happen in the future is that when we refuse to pass conditional grants like we did with the conditional grants on building of capacities of counties, the national Government will refuse to transfer funds and that is illegal. That is what we call impunity. The brother and sister, and the father and mother of impunity is violating the Constitution.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I support this with all those caveats and I expect the Senate Majority Leader to stand up and be counted as the leader of his House and condemn actions that violate our role. These are actions that might be construed to mean that conditional grants are for some reason superior to the shareable revenue. I thank you.

Order, hon. Senators. I will propose the question.

Well done.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me the chance. I would not say I support or refuse to support, but I want to take issue with the statements made by the Senate Majority Leader that some counties like Turkana and Wajir complained that they are marginalised. In truth, these counties are marginalised.

If you can only visit one of them and see the conditions under which those particular wananchi or voters are living, you cannot deny the fact that these people have been marginalised for the last fifty years of Kenya’s Independence.

We all know that the law stipulates that all citizens have the right to adequate food which is something that is rare in these particular counties. Therefore, that is a sign of marginalisation. All voters or all citizens have the right to access to adequate food, adequate water of good quality and good quantities. This is not something you will find in Turkana.

When we did our campaigns, the two main issues that the Turkana people gave are the facts that, first, they need enough food. Secondly, they need enough water. These have not been available for the last fifty years. This country has been independent for close to fifty four years yet there are still counties like Turkana and, I dare say Wajir, that are lacking enough food and water even though the law stipulates that they should have enough food and water.

Therefore, to that effect---

Order, Senator. You had two minutes and your time is up. As a professor, you should lead by example. You need to plan for your time. You will have one extra minute but we do not encourage this.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I also want to caution the Senate Majority Leader that it is not a good idea to make a blanket statement about all the governors. The Governor for Turkana County has opened so many Early Childhood Development Centres (ECD’s) where there were none. He has put up a lot of clinics in different parts of Turkana that were not there.

For that reason, you cannot actually say that these people misused the money. Turkana lost Kshs1.3 billion shillings that should have been given to them. That is like taking food from a child who is already hungry and telling them that you have had enough. You are talking about a formula that is not even a formula. It is a biased formula.

that they are already getting a lot, thus Kshs1.3 billion should be taken out. I think we have to be fair when we talk about---.

Thank you Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I also rise to support this Motion. In reaction to some of the discussions around equitable sharing of revenue and the conditional grants, I am very saddened by our focus. We are interpreting our oversight role as the Senate, as just a Standard Operating Procedure (SOP) of disbursements and not looking at sustainability of counties through own revenue generation. Counties cannot even survive for two months of transition between governments.

As a Senate, we may choose to focus on SOP’s of disbursement schedules, but what we probably need to focus on is how sustainable the county governments are. Are they a department of the national Government thus everything comes to a standstill the day something does not flow from the national Government or are they a functioning government in their own right that could perhaps start generating some income that they can use even during this transitional period?

While I support, I hope that we will not narrow our frame in terms of the oversight role of the Senate. We should look at what is being shared, disbursed and try to hold these county governments accountable to a sustainable model of governance that would be able to survive even if it is for some time.

I support the Motion but let us look beyond this and make our oversight role more strategic.

Well done Senator. Senators, we are doing well so far. Given the context that we have set for ourselves, I will only listen to the five requests that I can see. These Senators will each have two minutes in the order in which I am going to read their names. First, Sen. Cherargei, Nandi County, Sen. Mwaruma, Taita Taveta, Nominated Sen. Musuruve, Sen. Langat, Bomet County. The last will be Temporary. Who is Temporary? That should be Sen. Olekina of Narok County. You will close for us. You will all have two minutes each. Please keep time. There will be no additions.

Thank you Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I rise to support. I agree that these conditional grants are very important because it touches on one of the core---.

Just hold his time. Please resume your seat.

Senators, I hope that the whips are doing their work. We are going into Division and I can see some Senators leaving. Kindly, let us be patriotic enough. Hold on for a while. We have to dispose of this important agenda. Continue, Senator for Nandi County.

Order, Senators!

The point I am going to raise here is of great importance in regard to what happens with the monies. We know there is a lacuna in this Constitution. This Constitution is silent on what happens when the national Government delays to disburse money to counties like it is happening here. We need to put a stop gap to any attempts by future governments, especially those who will dilly-dally in releasing the funds on time.

In future, we need to have a provision on punitive clauses like it is known in common law, so that, that money which is delayed can be deemed to have earned some interest which will be fixed by the Constitution. It is very important.

Thank you.

Well done.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me a chance also to support this Bill. From the onset, I want to congratulate those Members who have been nominated to sit and look into the amendments. I also want to urge them to really look at the amendment carefully and make sure that they come up with something that can help our counties.

I only want to raise a concern that as we allocate these monies to the counties for the purpose of acquiring equipment for our health centres and health facilities in our counties, we should make sure that they do not only have the equipment but also the human resource to attend to our people.

There is an outcry from patients who go to our hospitals and miss medical staff to attend to them. These patients also lack medicine. Therefore, as Members of this House, we should make sure that we follow up and see that whatever funds allocated to our counties are well utilised according to the allocations they have been given.

Thank you. Yes, Sen. Cheruiyot, Kericho County.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I rise to support. I do so because we are quite limited in terms of options that we have. We know that counties are almost grinding to a halt as they await some of these schedules to be dispersed. However, I want it to be on record that as we continue to do this mandate as a Senate, some of us

we look into the issue of the third generation formula and partly because of two main points. One is the counties own contributions to the national Gross Domestic Product (GDP) which is currently not being factored.

Secondly, it is time we introduced an element of how fiscal responsibility counts for something when you are calculating how much a county should spend. This is because it is immoral of us as leaders to pass money to a certain county if the same is not being put to prudent use, especially bearing in mind that this is revenue that has been collected from diligent and hardworking Kenyans.

Order, Senators!

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, yesterday, I had a chance to look at some of the audit reports which were tabled in this House and I was perturbed. If you look at certain revenues in Narok County, there was no additional documentation given to the Auditor General and I know we are going to discuss that later. However, I am concerned that we want the money to go to the counties, but the suppliers are yet to be paid, the Auditor General has not been supplied with proper documents and the Public Finance Managed Act, Section 116 (7) is still being violated.

I want to appeal to all Senators here that although I support money being sent to the counties, we ought to follow---

It is now time for the Mover to reply.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I thank all the Senators for their contributions. However, just to inform Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. and Sen. Wako, that the Minister for Finance responded to that question that you raised as to whether it was necessary for him to do the amendment before. He made it clear in his statement that was read here two days ago, that he received the advice from the Attorney General, Hon. Githu Muigai. There was a bundle of caution on that advice to avoid situations where they will again find themselves in similar positions.

The way forward should be that we separate the next schedule; the equitable shareable resources should be separate from grants that are actually coming from the National Government. However, part of the resources must be approved by this House, including the grants that are coming from donors. Therefore, we should have three separate tables. Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. and his team should have done this in the last Parliament since they advised this House when the schedule came here.

Secondly, there was a misunderstanding by many Senators, including the Senators from Taita Taveta and Turkana counties. I am glad to have a Senator still defending a governor although it is still early in the day.

Thank you Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I also rise to support this Motion. In reaction to some of the discussions around equitable sharing of revenue and the conditional grants, I am very saddened by our focus. We are interpreting our oversight role as the Senate, as just a Standard Operating Procedure (SOP) of disbursements and not looking at sustainability of counties through own revenue generation. Counties cannot even survive for two months of transition between governments.

As a Senate, we may choose to focus on SOP’s of disbursement schedules, but what we probably need to focus on is how sustainable the county governments are. Are they a department of the national Government thus everything comes to a standstill the day something does not flow from the national Government or are they a functioning government in their own right that could perhaps start generating some income that they can use even during this transitional period?

While I support, I hope that we will not narrow our frame in terms of the oversight role of the Senate. We should look at what is being shared, disbursed and try to hold these county governments accountable to a sustainable model of governance that would be able to survive even if it is for some time.

I support the Motion but let us look beyond this and make our oversight role more strategic.

Well done Senator. Senators, we are doing well so far. Given the context that we have set for ourselves, I will only listen to the five requests that I can see. These Senators will each have two minutes in the order in which I am going to read their names. First, Sen. Cherargei, Nandi County, Sen. Mwaruma, Taita Taveta, Nominated Sen. Musuruve, Sen. Langat, Bomet County. The last will be Temporary. Who is Temporary? That should be Sen. Olekina of Narok County. You will close for us. You will all have two minutes each. Please keep time. There will be no additions.

Thank you Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I rise to support. I agree that these conditional grants are very important because it touches on one of the core---.

Just hold his time. Please resume your seat.

Senators, I hope that the whips are doing their work. We are going into Division and I can see some Senators leaving. Kindly, let us be patriotic enough. Hold on for a while. We have to dispose of this important agenda. Continue, Senator for Nandi County.

Thank you Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I was saying that most of these conditional grants are important because they touch on the core issues that we have in the counties. In future, I would like to agree with some of my colleagues that we should increase the purview. We should also ensure that we develop or re-engineer a formula so that most of these issues that have been raised can be accommodated. This is because we are alive to the fact that things keep changing. In the years to come, Turkana might not be marginalized. We might have new counties. I think that some standards need to be set.

Finally, regarding the capacity of county assemblies to approve some of these projects, going forward, we need some of these county government laws. When we do that, we will give the capacity to them. They will understand the implications of these projects. Before they do approvals in those county assemblies, they need to do approvals that have been allocated by some of these conditional grants so that we do not have some counties misusing these resources.

I support. Well done. Could we hear from Sen. Mwaruma?

Dullo, Isiolo County; Sen. Haji, Garissa County; Sen. (Prof.) Kamar, Uasin Gishu County; Sen. (Dr.) Kabaka, Machakos County; Sen. Kang’ata, Murang’a County; Sen. Kihika, Nakuru County; Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki, Tharaka-Nithi County; Sen. Kinyua, Laikipia County; Sen. (Dr.) Langat, Bomet County; Sen. Lelegwe, Samburu County; Sen. (Dr.) Mbito, Trans Nzoia County, Sen. Murkomen, Elgeyo-Marakwet County; Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr., Makueni County; Sen. Mwangi, Nyandarua County; Sen. Mwaruma, Taita-Taveta County; Sen. Olekina, Narok County, Sen. Omogeni, Nyamira County; Sen. Sakaja, Nairobi County; Sen. Seneta, Kajiado County; Sen. Wako, Busia County; Sen. Wambua, Kitui County; Sen. Wario, Tana River County; and Sen. Waqo, Marsabit County.

disbursed to the counties at the right time.

There is also about Kshs5 billion that will not be disbursed to the counties. I want also to suggest that the governors should be taken through a workshop for them to know the indicators that they need to meet in order for the money to be disbursed.

Thank you, your time is up.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity. I rise to support this Motion because the counties need this money at this time. Nevertheless, I would like to raise the point that these Senators must be facilitated as soon as possible and effectively to enable them to oversight this particular money. For instance, when I see Sen. Olekina being facilitated mileage allowance to go to Narok County, I wonder how he will manage to go and see projects in Bomet and Kisii counties. Therefore, as we expedite the disbursement of this money, this particular Senator should also be facilitated effectively in future, so that we may monitor the progress of development in our counties. Otherwise, we shall be staying in Nairobi and watching on the television what is happening in our counties.

Order, Senator. Finally, Sen. Olekina.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I rise to support this Motion. I want to reiterate the words of Sen. Wako and also Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. that when I looked at the amendments to this Bill I was concerned because it only focuses on issues regarding conditional grants. In fact, I ask myself why we are holding county funds yet we do not even audit conditional grants. The audits that come to us do not include conditional grants. So, it is imperative for the CS, Treasury, to clarify to his officers and seek proper legal advice in terms of disbursing of funds. While doing that, I would like to encourage and beseech all the Senators here to keep an eye.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, yesterday, I had a chance to look at some of the audit reports which were tabled in this House and I was perturbed. If you look at certain revenues in Narok County, there was no additional documentation given to the Auditor General and I know we are going to discuss that later. However, I am concerned that we want the money to go to the counties, but the suppliers are yet to be paid, the Auditor General has not been supplied with proper documents and the Public Finance Managed Act, Section 116 (7) is still being violated.

I want to appeal to all Senators here that although I support money being sent to the counties, we ought to follow---

It is now time for the Mover to reply.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I thank all the Senators for their contributions. However, just to inform Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. and Sen. Wako, that the Minister for Finance responded to that question that you raised as to whether it was necessary for him to do the amendment before. He made it clear in his statement that was read here two days ago, that he received the advice from the Attorney General, Hon. Githu Muigai. There was a bundle of caution on that advice to avoid situations where they will again find themselves in similar positions.

The way forward should be that we separate the next schedule; the equitable shareable resources should be separate from grants that are actually coming from the National Government. However, part of the resources must be approved by this House, including the grants that are coming from donors. Therefore, we should have three separate tables. Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. and his team should have done this in the last Parliament since they advised this House when the schedule came here.

Secondly, there was a misunderstanding by many Senators, including the Senators from Taita Taveta and Turkana counties. I am glad to have a Senator still defending a governor although it is still early in the day.

REPORT AND THIRD READING THE COUNTY ALLOCATION OF REVENUE (AMENDMENT) BILL (SENATE BILL NO.9 OF 2017) The Temporary Chairperson.

Mover.

Order Senators!

Murkomen, Elgeyo Marakwet County; Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr., Makueni County; Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki, Tharaka Nithi County; Sen. Mwaruma, Taita Taveta County; Sen. (Dr.) Mbito, Trans Nzoia County; Sen. Ndwiga, Embu County; Sen. Olekina, Narok County; Sen. Omogeni, Nyamira County; Sen. Mwangi, Nyandarua County; Sen. Sakaja, Nairobi County; Sen. Seneta, Kajiado County; Sen. Wako, Busia County; Sen. Wambua, Kitui County; Sen.Wario, Tana River County; and, Sen. (Rev.) Waqo, Marsabit County.

May I now call upon the mover to move?

Madam Temporary Chairperson, pursuant to Standing Order No. 142, I beg to move that the Committee do report to the Senate its consideration of the County Allocation of Revenue (Amendment) Bill (Senate Bill No.9 of 2017) and its approval thereof without amendments.

REPORT AND THIRD READING THE COUNTY ALLOCATION OF REVENUE (AMENDMENT) BILL (SENATE BILL NO.9 OF 2017) The Temporary Chairperson.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to report that the Committee of the Whole has considered The County Allocation of Revenue (Amendment) Bill (Senate Bill No.9 of 2017) and its approval thereof without amendments.

Assembly lapsed on 4th June, 2017; COGNIZANT of the need to urgently conclude the election process for the East African Legislative Assembly to commence transacting business of the East African Community; NOW THEREFORE, in accordance with the provisions of Rule 9 of the Houses of Parliament (Joint Sittings) Rules, the Senate resolves to establish a Joint Select Committee consisting of five (5) Members from each House of Parliament to undertake the functions contemplated under the East African Legislative Assembly Elections (Election of Members of the Assembly) Rules, 2017, and report to the House within the timelines stipulated in the said Rules, and that:

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the House do agree with the Committee on the said report and ask Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr to second.

Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. seconded. (The Clerk-at-the-Table consulted the speaker) (Interruption of Business on Order No.9) Order Senators. We want to do something procedural we should have done a bit earlier. When I left the Chair, I signed the Report of the Committee and, therefore, for purposes of procedure, I ask Sen. Ndwiga to table that Report before we proceed.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to give Notice of the following Motion that pursuant to Standing Order 69---.

Order Senator! You are supposed to lay the Paper.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to agree on some aspects with my learned colleague, Sen. Murkomen. First, I appreciate the approach that we are giving this matter of picking our representatives to the EALA.

I am informed that this time round, the Senate Majority Leader has followed the right procedure. He has consulted the leadership of the Minority side and we have given our input on the names. Therefore, I wish to second the Motion.

I want to say one or two things. I have listened to the Senate Majority Leader giving figures about the Orange Democratic Movement (ODM) getting two names and Jubilee Party six names. I am very worried when it comes to figures and the Jubilee Party because since independence I have never seen a government that can get it wrong in figures when passing a budget.

For the first time, Jubilee has gone on record as a Government that cannot even get it right when it comes to figures. Now that the Senator for Busia County is here, I do not think when he was serving as the Attorney General he found himself in the shoes in which my good teacher, Prof. Githu Muigai, found himself in. I hope the Senate Majority Leader will get it right in terms of figures.

simply because the Jubilee leadership could not get it right. I hope we will not waste another time having disagreements in this House because we are not able to get it right in terms of how many numbers should be allocated to the NASA leadership.

I am happy to note that we had two by-elections in Kisii yesterday. One was for the Member of the National Assembly for Kitutu Chache South Constituency. The servers could not work there and Hon. Richard Onyonka is now the new Member for Kitutu Chache South Constituency. Therefore, nobody should mislead the country that Kisii County is now leaning towards Jubilee.

I support the averment by the Senate Majority Leader that we should ensure that this process is transparent. I want to sympathise with the people who were vying for political seats. Some of my friends from Kisii and Nyamira counties were hoodwinked not to vie for particular seats with the hope that they will be taken to the EALA. I do not know what you will do with these people you have given false hopes and promises, since you have stated in this House that they will go through an election.

I want to urge the Jubilee leadership to stop the habit of giving people false promises and hope for jobs that they will never give them.

With those remarks, I second the Motion.

Waqo, Marsabit County; and, Sen. Wario, Tana River County.

Hon. Senators, the results of the Division are as follows:

Assembly lapsed on 4th June, 2017; COGNIZANT of the need to urgently conclude the election process for the East African Legislative Assembly to commence transacting business of the East African Community; NOW THEREFORE, in accordance with the provisions of Rule 9 of the Houses of Parliament (Joint Sittings) Rules, the Senate resolves to establish a Joint Select Committee consisting of five (5) Members from each House of Parliament to undertake the functions contemplated under the East African Legislative Assembly Elections (Election of Members of the Assembly) Rules, 2017, and report to the House within the timelines stipulated in the said Rules, and that:

determine who among the six will be elected persons to go to EALA because they have the majority in both Houses. So, numbers are very important. Democracy is very important because it is the will of the majority and numbers are very good. If you ever form your party in future, you must work very hard because numbers are very important.

I have heard people castigating numbers because of the decisions that are being made. Democracy is such that many citizens will have an opportunity to vote whether you like them or not. It does not matter the degree or the corner of the country they live in but their numbers are very important. In this House, in less than two or three weeks, numbers will matter again. We will come back here to vote.

We will have those aspiring to be nominees lobbying and they will be given time to go around explaining their manifestos and what they will do for Kenya when they go to the EALA. The person I may like on the Jubilee Party list may never win because it is the votes that will come from both the Jubilee Party and the NASA that will determine who will be elected. The nominees will have an opportunity to talk to the Senators for Nyamira and Busia even if they were appointed by Jubilee. They must convince the political parties across the board. The persons who will get more votes will be nominated to represent Kenya in the EALA.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the exercise is important. It was born out of a court decision after the 2007 elections when the ODM went to court to challenge the process of nominating persons to the EALA. They said that it must be as transparent as possible. I therefore urge our Members to come and vote.

I have seen my colleagues take issue with the nomination of persons based on their relationship with politicians. It does not matter whether they are related to hon. Uhuru Kenyatta, hon. Raila Odinga, hon. William Ruto or Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki. If you do not like someone because they are related to so and so, hold on because we will vote here. You will have a chance to vote them out because you are allowed to vote for other people.

So, I depart from the position of my friends who say that the son of Hon. Kalonzo Musyoka should not be on the list. We must be magnanimous. We cannot beat someone in elections and say that their children cannot have a chance to try something else which is unrelated to what that person was pursuing. I completely depart from my colleagues who say that it is wrong for the former vice president and former prime minister to forward names of their relatives. Let us allow them to bring their people but we will assess them based on their competence.

Hon. Kalonzo Musyoka’s son is a lawyer and I might be inclined to vote for him unless someone convinces me otherwise. When I look at the NASA list and find that he is the most competent one, I will vote for him. If he, his father or friends call me requesting for my vote, I am a citizen of this republic and I will consider across the board because I am a nationalist. I completely depart from the previous position we held. We will give a chance to every person who will be on the nomination list.

Yesterday I heard my colleagues in the National Assembly saying that our friends and relatives should not be proposed. We have a very difficult job. We will be punishing so many people by virtue of us being elected by voters. We must remember that J. F. Kennedy was the President of the USA when his brother Robert Kennedy was the

competence. As long as the process is transparent, I do not think we will have time for servers; it will be just manual. We will vote here and every vote will count. We will ensure that we protect everybody.

Secondly, I want to request my colleagues that should it be necessary, even when we are on the recess, that we are called back to consider that very important matter, we should take time to come back and consider it. We have become a laughing stock because we have stopped the East African Legislative Assembly (EALA) from working.

Kenyan livestock was confiscated and sold in Tanzania, which is laughable. The Maasai community in Tanzania and Kenya do not know where the boundary is, just like the Teso community in Kenya and Uganda are not very serious about boundaries. They have relationships across the border.

Operationalizing this Assembly would have given it an opportunity to discuss such matters and foster good neighbourliness. The fishermen who were arrested in Lake Victoria could have been a subject of discussion in the EALA. The EALA could have come up with resolutions. Sen. Pareno who was here had the privilege to serve there. Therefore, it is a very wonderful opportunity to serve in the EALA. Thereafter, you can even come back here or run for President.

I beg to move and give the onus of seconding this very important Motion to Sen. Omogeni.

Thank you, the Senate Majority Leader.

Yes, Sen. Omogeni, the Senator for Nyamira County.

Am I on? The microphone seems to be resisting.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to agree on some aspects with my learned colleague, Sen. Murkomen. First, I appreciate the approach that we are giving this matter of picking our representatives to the EALA.

I am informed that this time round, the Senate Majority Leader has followed the right procedure. He has consulted the leadership of the Minority side and we have given our input on the names. Therefore, I wish to second the Motion.

I want to say one or two things. I have listened to the Senate Majority Leader giving figures about the Orange Democratic Movement (ODM) getting two names and Jubilee Party six names. I am very worried when it comes to figures and the Jubilee Party because since independence I have never seen a government that can get it wrong in figures when passing a budget.

For the first time, Jubilee has gone on record as a Government that cannot even get it right when it comes to figures. Now that the Senator for Busia County is here, I do not think when he was serving as the Attorney General he found himself in the shoes in which my good teacher, Prof. Githu Muigai, found himself in. I hope the Senate Majority Leader will get it right in terms of figures.

simply because the Jubilee leadership could not get it right. I hope we will not waste another time having disagreements in this House because we are not able to get it right in terms of how many numbers should be allocated to the NASA leadership.

I am happy to note that we had two by-elections in Kisii yesterday. One was for the Member of the National Assembly for Kitutu Chache South Constituency. The servers could not work there and Hon. Richard Onyonka is now the new Member for Kitutu Chache South Constituency. Therefore, nobody should mislead the country that Kisii County is now leaning towards Jubilee.

I support the averment by the Senate Majority Leader that we should ensure that this process is transparent. I want to sympathise with the people who were vying for political seats. Some of my friends from Kisii and Nyamira counties were hoodwinked not to vie for particular seats with the hope that they will be taken to the EALA. I do not know what you will do with these people you have given false hopes and promises, since you have stated in this House that they will go through an election.

I want to urge the Jubilee leadership to stop the habit of giving people false promises and hope for jobs that they will never give them.

With those remarks, I second the Motion.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, since we are very few, three minutes is too short. Even if I talked for one hour, it is still okay. However, I am not challenging your ruling.

Try to do so at your own risk.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, matters of the East African Community are very close to my heart because my father served there in a very important position of Deputy Secretary General of the defunct Community and Secretary to the Authority. Then the three Heads of State appointed me in 2004 to chair a meeting to fast-track the East African Federation.

This is a very important matter because Kenya has been very unfortunate. Kenya is now being blamed for the late start of the East African Legislative Assembly (EALA) . This Assembly was convened just before we went to the elections. It could not take off because Kenya had not made its nominations. The four member states of the community are blaming Kenya for the non-starting of EALA. That is a great embarrassment for Kenya which should take the lead in ensuring that the various organs of the Community are up and running and very functional.

I support this Committee because it is composed of very able people. I hope that they can now move with speed to make sure that the gap is filled. It is only after the EALA is in place that the Community can work. The Community is more or less

of East Africa is not there because EALA, which in a sense represents the people in the organs of the community, is not functional.

Nowadays, you do not hear our own leaders talk about greater economic, social and political integration of East Africa. Two or three years ago, it was in everybody’s lips including our leaders but you now do not hear about it. What you now hear are the quarrels between the member states. Our cattle are being auctioned in Tanzania and our fishermen are being arrested in Uganda. I hope that with the Legislative Assembly, we will reverse the trend. Thank you.

Could we hear from Sen. (Rev.) Waqo?

Is that my sister?

Yes, I am following my brother. Thank you Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I stand to support this Motion. I also want to let you know that I almost went to EALA before I came here. That is where I got to know the Senate Majority Leader and all the others. I campaigned seriously. I understand the dilemma and the anxiety that those who are interested are going through at this particular time. I also understand the challenges that the entire East African region is facing because of us. I want to be brief.

I could have said much because that opportunity gave me a lot of time to go through what East Africa stands for. I studied a lot. I still feel that I should show a lot of interest in that but it is probably for another day. I stand to support this Motion. I have a lot of confidence in the names that have been presented to us. We stand for it and if we will be recalled, my request is that we avail ourselves so that East Africa can get going because of us.

Very well. Could we hear from Sen. (Prof.) Kamar?

Thank you Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me the opportunity. I happened to have been in the first group after the revival of the EALA. I am very delighted to contribute and congratulate the five Members who have been appointed by our two leaders. I think this is the way to go. I want to congratulate the Senate Majority Leader and the Senate Minority Leader for negotiating quietly and bringing the five Senators to us. We know that they are extremely fair and intelligent people. We are looking forward to them doing the work that is before them.

I would only like to say that EALA is a very important organ for us as a country because the East African Community is the market for Kenyan goods. It is the environment where Kenyans can move freely and do a lot of business. It is important that we continue to give the leadership that we have been giving to the Community. I will, therefore, have no doubt that the sooner we elect our members the better. It is unfortunate that our elections came in between and we were not able to complete the process earlier. Maybe, this could be our trend. We could select people immediately after our own election so that the calendar is almost fixed. We could even encourage the East Africa Community to fix the time so that we do not miss out on anything.

With those remarks, I would like to support the Motion.

Senate Majority Leader, reply but do not take forever.

colleagues say that political parties who promise their supporters that they will be given opportunity in the East African Parliament, are misleading them. It is not true.

The political parties are the ones that are going to nominate people to come and serve here. So, it is true that they will honour the promise to their voters. For instance, if there is a friend of Sen. Omogeni who was promised nomination, that party must do the nomination, the people will come here and we will have the responsibility to vote.

Fortunately, despite Sen. Omogeni being in the opposition, he will have an opportunity to vote for a person probably nominated by Jubilee but comes from his county. That is where his patriotism and support for his county will be tested and he must take it seriously when that day comes. Additionally, I am willing to look at all the nominees that come from both sides, as I said.

Thirdly, there is something going on that is very important. Our country is awaiting a decision of the Supreme Court on an important election that took place on 26th of October 2017 – a fresh presidential election which is another test of our constitutional structures. I am happy that the people of Kenya turned out in large numbers to vote on 26th October, 2017.

As a matter of fact, Hon. Onyonka was elected two days ago and Sen. Omogeni was so excited. He was elected by less than 17 percent of the registered voters of Kitutu Chache South Constituency. President Uhuru Kenyatta was elected way above that, which was 38 percent of the registered voters. Further, in that small turnout of 17 percent, Hon. Onyonka won by getting 45 percent of the leading votes that were valid. Therefore, while President Uhuru Kenyatta got 98 percent of 38 percent of total turnout in the Republic, it is way above any by-elections, repeat elections or fresh elections.

Therefore, the courts will have their time since this House has a tradition and is bound by law not to discuss matters that are sub judice. That matter is being canvassed in the Supreme Court. In the fullness of time on or before 20th of November, we would have found a decision of the Supreme Court which is a signature of our constitutional order.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I disagree, the same way I disagreed earlier with those who think that appointing people related to elected Members is wrong. I also disagree with those who want to manufacture a crisis, that there is a crisis in this country. Crisis from where, by who and for what? There is no crisis in this Republic. There is no need for any person to travel all over the world preaching crisis. We have our Constitution. Read the Constitution. Follow the Constitution. This country is one of the most enviable countries in the world.

The Attorney General Emeritus, after many years of being the Attorney General finally was in Uhuru Park. I was there and I saw him not through the television, I saw him face to face promulgating the Constitution on 27th August 2010. I saw him because I campaigned for this Constitution. By the way, Sen. (Prof.) Kamar and I campaigned for the passing of this Constitution. I was her mtu wa mkono which translates to an errand boy, at that point in time.

Were you the errand boy or were you the assistant to Sen. (Prof.) Kamar?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I was something in between because I was on call for purposes of encouraging and educating people to accept this Constitution. I am very happy since both Sen. (Prof.) Kamar and Sen. Wako are here to enjoy the institutions of the Constitution they supported.

Together with the former Prime Minister among others, we supported this Constitution then. Let us follow this Constitution. Let us follow every step of this Constitution. Let us not manufacture a crisis where there is none.

Therefore, when we are sitting here as a country, I am so impressed by the people of Kenya. Despite being cajoled and mobilized, they have avoided violence. I wish Kenyans would see the comradeship and the camaraderie that exists among politicians. No one would have died on behalf of Sen. Murkomen or any other person. It is important for people to continue being this mature; Kenyans matured. If you see the way our people are behaving, this is extreme maturity by the people of Kenya.

People wanted people to kill each other so that there can be a crisis, but our people have restrained themselves. It is now an established tradition going forward that anyone who wants to vote would be respected and whoever is not willing to vote would also be respected as this country brings us together. A neighbour cannot kill his neighbour because of elections, violence or getting someone to office.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we are standing here proudly saying that we look forward to the events of the Supreme Court. Hopefully there will be a positive verdict for those of us who supported President Uhuru Kenyatta and this will lead to the swearing in of the President. Consequently, when we come back here on 28th November 2017, I believe that we will have President Uhuru Kenyatta serving his second term. When that happens, we will then come and discuss other matters that have been pending and how to strengthen this House and work with the national Government to ensure that it grants us the resources that are necessary for this Parliament and this House to carry out oversight. We can work on them and ensure that we move devolution forward.

I have said so many things but I want to say that I am very proud of the work we did as a House for the short time that we have been here. We have passed the County Allocation of Revenue (Amendment) Bill (CARA) and we have now so many Bills and, as I read, policy papers that we will come and approve. So, our plate is full; when we come back it is not in the absence of business, it is just that we have gone to take care of the other business. When we come back we will come and continue with the business of this House as required by our calendar, the Constitution and the law.

Thank you. I beg to move. I request the Senate Deputy Majority Leader to second.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I second.

Hon. Senators, I see no request. Therefore, I now put the question. This is not a Motion affecting counties.

Hon. Senators, there being no more business, the Senate therefore, stands adjourned until Tuesday 28th November, 2017 at