Thursday, 30th October, 2025

Clerk, do we have quorum?

Serjeant-at-Arms, kindly ring the Quorum Bell for 10 minutes.

Order, hon. Senators, we now have quorum. Kindly take your seats.

Clerk, kindly call the first Order.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. On behalf of the Chairperson, Standing Committee on Finance and Budget, I beg to lay the following Paper on the Table of the Senate today, 30th October, 2025-

The report of the Standing Committee on Finance and Budget on its consideration of the National Assembly amendments to the County Government's Additional Allocations (No.2) Bill, (Senate Bills No.8 of 2025) .

Services, Senate.

My apologies for the Chairman.

Next Order. Chairperson, Standing Committee on Finance and Budget.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to lay the following Paper on the Table of the Senate---

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg your pardon.

Next Order.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.53 (1) to seek a Statement from the Standing Committee on Education on a matter of nationwide concern regarding the persistent and systemic non-payment of allowances to teachers who supervise extracurricular activities and national examinations across the country.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, as you know, on 5th October we celebrate the World Teacher's Day and we had our celebrations here in Nairobi. It has become humiliating for teachers to accompany students to sports and other extracurricular activities without receiving the rightful allowances while the students are fully facilitated, thereby compromising their ability to secure decent accommodation and to meet essential out-of-pocket expenses. These allowances remain unpaid even after teachers have diligently fulfilled their duties,

Services, Senate. with similar frustrating experiences reported among those assigned to supervise national examinations.

In the Statement, the Committee should address the following-

participated in the East African Secondary School games held in Kakamega in August, 2025, the status and a definitive timeline for the disbursement;

part in the East Africa Drama and Music Festivals held in Kampala, Uganda in August, 2025, and indicate the specific date by which these payments will be done;

supervise national examinations and outline why this essential duty continues to be inadequately and untimely remunerated; lastly,

are promptly facilitated whenever they are deployed for duties outside their official work stations.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, Can I be next? I only have one, but then there are two more that are coming.

You can proceed with this one.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.53 (1) to seek a Statement from the Standing Committee on Health on a matter of nationwide concern regarding the rapid test for sickle cell disease.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, sickle cell disease is an inherited blood disorder in Kenya, common in Western and Coastal regions of the country. Early detection is vital to prevent complications and reduce child mortality. The introduction of accurate and rapid diagnostic tests marks a major breakthrough, offering fast reliable results even in rural areas with limited laboratories. This innovation enables early treatment, better patient care and large-scale community screening, including for newborns and expectant mothers, advancing Kenya's universal health coverage goals.

In the Statement, the Committee should address the following-

Sen. Andrew Omtatah.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I confirm that I have written instructions.

I received the note, you may proceed.

Services, Senate.

I am reading this Statement on behalf of the Hon. Sen. Andrew Okiya Omtatah, Senator for Busia.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.53 (1) to seek a Statement from the Standing Committee on Trade, Industrialisation and Tourism on a matter of countrywide concern regarding the privatization and the current operations of the Webuye Pan paper Mills now known as Rai Paper Mills.

The Rai Paper Mills, formerly Webuye Panpaper Mills in Webuye Bungoma County, once a leading industrial employer in western Kenya, was privatised in 2016 following years of receivership. The factory was reportedly sold to Tarlochan limited, a subsidiary of the Rai Group at a price of Kshs900 million despite an earlier Government investment exceeding Kshs6 billion.

Questions have since arisen concerning the valuation, transparency and compliance with the Public Procurement and Asset Disposal Act, 2015 and the socio- economic outcomes of this privatisation.

The public has expressed concern about the lack of information regarding the terms and conditions of a sale, including whether it was a full transfer or a lease agreement, the revenue and employment impact since the takeover, the payment of terminal benefits to former employees and whether the process complied with the national laws and policies governing the disposal of public assets.

In the Statement, the Committee should address the following-

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.53 (1) to seek a Statement from the Standing Committee on Lands, Environment and Natural

Services, Senate. Resources on a matter of countywide regarding the status of ownership and the proposed sale of land parcel LR No.14210 registered under the Kenya Triangle Company Limited in Kwale County.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, there is growing concern over the fate of residents currently occupying land parcel LR No.14210 following reports of a proposed sale of approximately 110,000 acres, excised from the larger 172,000-acre Kenya Triangle Ranch, to the Government of Kenya.

The lack of transparency surrounding the ownership structure, the terms of the proposed sale and the legal status of the land has created anxiety among local communities, many of whom risk displacement if the transaction proceeds without safeguards.

In the Statement, the Committee should address the following-

any registered encumbrances or claims, the number and status of residents currently occupying the land and whether they have been consulted or issued with eviction notices.

acres from the Kenya Triangle Ranch and the current status of such a transaction.

(NLC) to verify ownership, protect occupants and ensure due process in any proposed sale.

alternative settlements, compensation or regularisation of tenure.

affected communities and ensuring that any land transaction aligns with public interest and constitutional provisions.

into the complaints lodged by the County Government of Kwale regarding the existence of multiple title deeds on the same parcel of land and any preliminary findings or actions taken.

I thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.53 (1) to seek a Statement from the Standing Committee on Health on a matter of national concern regarding the Government's new food labelling rules aimed at tackling obesity and diet-related diseases.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, Kenya as a signatory of the World Health Organization (WHO) global action plan on Non-Communicable Diseases (NCDs) , has committed to reducing premature mortality from NCDs through prevention and control measures, including healthier diets.

The rise in obesity, particularly among children and youth in urban areas, poses a serious risk to public health and undermines these commitments.

Services, Senate.

In response, the Ministry of Health, working with the Kenya Bureau of Standards (KEBS), has introduced mandatory food labelling regulations that require clear nutritional information on packaged foods covering sugar, salt and fat content. Products with harmful levels of these ingredients will now carry front or back warnings to guide consumer choice.

In the Statement, the Committee should address the following-

food labelling regulations by manufacturers and retailers.

use nutritional labels effectively.

Kenya (CAK) to address misleading or non-compliant labels.

food options, especially for low-income households.

I thank you.

Sen. Eddy, you may proceed with your Statement pursuant to Standing Order No.52 (1) . Read it as approved.

As approved, indeed, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I also want to thank you for your courtesy because just like Sen. Sifuna, I was in the team that went to India to bring the remains of our departed leader and brother, Hon. Raila Amolo Odinga. I would not participate better if I did not put myself on record to mourn together with our nation. Therefore, thank you so much for allowing me to read this Statement on the demise of the Rt. Hon. Raila Amolo Odinga.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.52 (1) to make a Statement on a matter of national and international concern namely, the demise of the Rt. Hon. Raila Amolo Odinga. It is never enough to continue sharing our sympathies and condolences to Mama Ida, Rosemary, Raila Jnr., Winnie, our brother Sen. (Dr.) Oburu and the larger Odinga family.

As we have been mourning as a nation since the passing of Hon. Raila Odinga on 15th October, 2025 in India, the sombre mood still engulfs our country as seen in accolades and praise accorded to him in equal measure.

In the solemn cries and wails of our people, this father of the nation has made a huge contribution to the life of our country and for generations to come. In the words of Shakespeare, through Marc Antony, today, I too come to mourn Hon. Raila, not to praise him, actually, for the good that people do is often interred with their bones, while the bad lives after them forever.

I say so because at the time of his death, our country's younger generation was grappling with the concept and reality of a broad-based government, a prudence of the enigma that holds our country together today.

It was a daring move which, in his own words, was the thin line between having an imperfect country struggling to mend its ways and a collapsed one. It is that daring

Services, Senate. spirit of Hon. Raila Odinga that has always been both a source of hope and fear for all of us. A source of hope because through him, our country could come together as one nation to have the hardest conversations despite our divisive differences; to shake hands despite our diversity and sometimes, to harness global respect as a united country.

It was a source of fear because up until his death he seemed to be the main glue that could hold us together, without which we could easily disintegrate into enclaves of ethnic interests, self-seeking demands by the political class, poor governance and ultimately the erosion of commitment to public service. However, I wish us the courage and the commitment to dare to be a nation that he has left stronger than he found it when he was born on that 7th January, 1945.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, Raila Odinga challenged Kenya and Africa to dare and dream big with their natural and human resources. More often, when I traveled with him across the continent during and after his tenure as the African Union (AU) High Representative for Infrastructure Development, he saw and articulated the immense talent and treasure in all of us, as African nations.

He challenged us to stop exporting raw materials to the rest of the world, but instead, to invest in value addition and local manufacturing to create jobs here on the continent in order to create opportunities for our young people and the rest of the generations on the continent.

He challenged us to use our educated manpower as a bargaining chip to attract manufacturing to our countries just as China and India have done, places which he frequented the most, instead of subjecting our youth to torturous journeys across oceans in search for greener pastures.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, Raila also challenged Africa to have faith in itself and to allow its citizens to embrace one another through increased trade, less restrictive visa regimes, open skies and transcontinental road and rail networks, things that he believed in.

For me, Raila grew from being a mythical Luo leader to a father of the nation figure and then from the mythical Luo leader to the leader of my Orange Democratic Party (ODM) party and to a mentor, confidant, a thought out partner and eventually, a true friend.

In these capacities, I also got to learn of his greatest fears. One of his greatest fears was that through all forms of discrimination, whether based on tribe, race, religion or gender, it would be impossible to build a lasting nationhood and institution of inclusive and shared prosperity in Kenya.

This bothered him immensely in every decision that he made about our country. He saw such divisions as barriers to progress and the biggest threats to the democratic and equality gains made since Independence. He particularly loathed tribalism, believing it was stopping Kenya and many African countries from taking off towards first-world status that would rival the Asian tigers.

On the global stage, Raila was eloquent as a voice for the review of the global order from the United Nations to the global financial architecture and north-south relations. He felt strongly that the global governance infrastructure established after the Second World War was no longer sustainable and needed a thorough review.

Services, Senate.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I can go on and on, but the fact remains that even through our conclusive cries in mourning him, his soul rests in peace. I doubt his spirit will ever rest in peace if we do not live up to some of these ideals that he lived for. I doubt Raila's spirit will rest in peace if we do not strengthen devolution, for instance, by allocating adequate resources to devolved functions and ensure that governors use them prudently to improve the lives of our people, as he urged us on that day of 22nd May, 2025, when he visited this House.

I doubt his spirit will rest in peace if we do not realise the 10 point broad-based agenda, including compensation of victims of protests and expansion of economic opportunities for young people in government. I doubt his spirit will rest in peace if, as a nation, we do not uphold democratic processes and institutions such as transparent and peaceful elections.

Just as Jesus Christ suffered and died for the salvation and good life of Christians, Hon. Raila Odinga went through the most dangerous street battles, so that never again should the younger generation experience any kind of brutalities in the streets in the quest for justice and dignity for humanity.

The continuous work towards a more just, globally competitive, equal and equitable nation are the ultimate Raila ideals, whose achievement will ultimately rest his soul in peace. As Nelson Mandela said: “It is an ideal which I hope to live for and to achieve, but if need be, it is an ideal for which I am prepared to die.”

For now, may Hon. Raila Odinga rest in peace. Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. On behalf of Sen. Issa Juma Boy of Kwale County, I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.53 (1) to seek a Statement from the Standing Committee on Lands, Environment and Natural Resources on a matter of countywide concern regarding the impending eviction of approximately 12,000 residents of Wasini Island in Kwale County following the decision of the National Land Commission (NLC) to restore the parcel of land originally registered as Plot No.W33 Wasini Island to the family of the late Sagaf Alawe.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, in the Statement, the decision by the NLC has triggered public demonstrations by the affected residents, some of whom possess title deeds and have occupied the land for several decades. In the Statement, the Committee should address the following-

Services, Senate.

Let us have a Statement pursuant to Standing Order No.57 (1) , the Senate Majority Leader.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. These days, social media is very vibrant and robust. Let me make it clear that I am reading on behalf of the Leader of the Majority. I am not the Leader of the Majority.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, pursuant to Standing Order No.57 (1) , I hereby present the business for the week commencing Tuesday, 4th November, 2025.

As you already have observed in your Communication, on Tuesday, 28th October, 2025, Part IV of the Fourth Session will, indeed, be a very short one. This calls for a certain degree of urgency to conclude business pending before the Senate.

As hon. Senators will note from today's Order Paper, there are several Bills at various stages awaiting division, as well as Motions awaiting the question to be put. I call upon all hon. Senators to prioritise Plenary Sittings for the Senate to conclude these businesses.

I also urge that we redouble our collective and individual effort in a bid to dispense with business before the Senate. In this respect, I take this opportunity to applaud the Standing Committee on Lands, Environment and Natural Resources for processing and concluding eight Petitions, tabling reports and filing Motions thereon, four of which are in today's Order Paper for putting of the question.

Mr. Speaker, turning to the business before the Senate, the status is as follows- Sixty-one bills are pending conclusion, 44 are at second reading stage, 15 are at the Committee of the Whole, while two are at first reading stage. Thirty-Eight motions are pending conclusion. Nineteen petitions are pending conclusion out of which 15 are due for reporting by respective Standing Committees. Four hundred and sixty-six statements pursuant to Standing Order No.53 (1) are being considered by respective Standing Committees.

On Tuesday, 4th November, 2025, the Senate Business Committee (SBC) will meet to consider the business for the week. The tentative business for that day will include business not concluded from today's Order Paper, as well as business that will be indicated in the Notice Paper.

The tentative business for the morning sitting, Wednesday, 5th November, 2025 will include the scheduled questions to Cabinet Secretaries as approved by the Senate Business Committee, as well as Motions.

The questions in consideration include the following-

Services, Senate.

The same Cabinet Secretary will have questions by Sen. Edwin Sifuna, Sen. Shakila Abdalla, Sen. Catherine Muma, Sen. James Lomenen, Sen. Joyce Korir, Sen. Kathuri Murungi, Sen. Madzayo, Sen. Mohamed Chute and finally, a question from Sen. Mwenda Gataya Mo Fire.

Finally, we have a question to the Cabinet Secretary for Defence by Sen. Mohamed Abbas-Sheikh.

The tentative business for the afternoon sitting on Wednesday, 5th November, 2025 will include business not concluded from today's Order Paper and the following-

Bill, the Street Naming and Property Addressing System Bill, the County Governments Bill, the Public Finance Management (Amendment) Bill, the Culture Bill, the Public Procurement and Asset Disposal Amendment Bill, the Kenya National Council for Population and Development Bill, the Electronic Equipment Disposal Recycling and Reuse Bill, the Energy Amendment Bill and the Health (Amendment) Bill.

Sports Amendment Bill, the Public Fundraising Appeals Bill, the Heritage and Museums Bill, the Environmental Laws (Amendment) Bill, the Statutory Amendments (Amendment) Bill, the County Governments Election Laws (Amendment) Bill, the Sports (Amendment) Bill and the County Civic Education Bill.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, it will also include several Motions, namely; the installation of CCTV cameras in all police stations, cells, and police reporting desks, provision of Integrated Financial Management Information System (IIFMIS) reports for county governments to the Senate, Mainstreaming Gender Perspectives in Legislative and Policy Processes, Establishment of a Policy to Regulate Artificial Intelligence and Innovation in Kenya and to de-link junior secondary schools from primary schools.

Finally, but not least, the projected business for Thursday, 6th November, 2025, will include business not concluded from Wednesday's Order Paper and any other business scheduled by the SBC.

I thank you, and hereby, on behalf of the Leader of the Majority, Sen. Aaron Cheruiyot, EGH, MP, lay the statement.

Hon. Senators, I will allow comments for not more than 15 minutes. So, if you get a chance to speak, kindly do so for not more than three minutes.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I want to make a brief comment on the statement sought by Sen. Okiya Omtatah on the privatisation status of Webuye Pan Paper Mills.

It will be important for the Committee to which this statement is committed to clear the air about a very fundamental question that the Senator has sought to clarify whether this was a sale or a lease. This is because the information that is out there in the public is that Pan Paper was acquired by Tarlochan Limited, a subsidiary of the Rai Group, at a cost of Kshs900 million in 2016. Going by public conversations around, it

Services, Senate. would appear that it was an absolute sale; that the deal was closed and Pan Paper went to Rai Group, and so what they do with it then becomes their own private business.

This question is important, coming at a time that there are national conversations around the privatisation of the Kenya Pipeline Company (KPC). As a leader in this House and the country, I just want to caution all of us, including myself, against this appetite of privatisation of public assets, especially strategic assets. This appetite for privatisation of public assets, especially strategic assets, is not a good thing for us now and for the future. I say this because I hear arguments being put forward for the privatisation of the Kenya Pipeline Company (KPC) because we want to finance and support the budget for Financial Year 2025/ 2026.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, after we have privatised and sold part of KPC to private investors and we have financed the Financial Year Budget 2025/ 2026, what will we sell to finance the budget for the Financial Year 2026/2027 and so on? We cannot be selling assets to finance national budgets. The best thing to do is to cut our shirts according to the size of our cloth. If the budgets are too huge, then let us forego expenditures today and work hard to bake a bigger national cake. We cannot be selling national assets to finance budgets.

Sen. Cherarkey

Mr. Speaker, Sir. I do not know why the Orange Democratic Movement (ODM) guys are excited.

I thank the ODM Secretary General, Sen. Sifuna for bringing this statement on teachers. I agree it is very unfortunate that teachers have to always make noise and to go for strike for their allowances to be paid, yet it is budgeted for. What is the work of the Teacher Service Commission (TSC) ? These are small matters. If you are bringing up allowances of teachers who went to participate in the East Africa Secondary Schools games in Kakamega, that is very unfortunate.

One of the professionals that are attacked from all angles are teachers. You will remember that we fought, in this House, against the scrapping of hardship allowances that were amounting to Kshs6 billion.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, every teacher who retires in this country, for their ex gratia or payment upon retirement to be paid, they must run around for almost three months. That is the same case for even the extraneous allowances.

I agree even on the issue of marking. Imagine after finishing marking exams, teachers have to make a lot of noise for their allowances to be paid. It is unfair to teachers. I wish the Chairperson of the Committee on Education would have been here, to issue a progress report by next week because this is a small matter. It is just for the TSC to pay teachers the allowances. It is as simple as that.

Finally, on the issue of the Rai Group and Webuye Pan Paper Mills, some people have selective amnesia. They did not say anything during the privatisation of this company which was under President Uhuru Kenyatta. We have just inherited assets and liabilities.

I want to say, on the Floor of this House, because I am speaking after the Deputy Minority Leader, that when we pass the Privatisation Act, that does not mean the Government sells the entire state-owned assets. The Government retains stakes, such as

Services, Senate. in the KPC and many others. We are also lying to Kenyans because most, if not all the parastatals, are making losses, including KICC. I saw that they were making Kshs4 billion loss or more.

A number of parastatals are not necessary for this country. We must allow the Government to privatise. We have also Public-Private Partnerships (PPPs) Acts. It is in the interest of the country that a number of these state-owned institutions that are making losses are privatised for the sanity and stability of the economy.

Let us leave the politics outside what we want to achieve as a country. I do not think our future generations would be happy if we continued to have state-owned institutions that make losses.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for allowing me to support the statement by Senator for Nairobi City about teachers.

This has really taken long for teachers. Every time they want an increment or have a promise made to them, for it to be fulfilled, they have to demonstrate.

Let us remember that everybody, including even the highest top seat in this country, the presidency, to the least, pass through teachers. Teachers are very important people not only to this country, but to the world. This is because without teachers, then we would not do what we do best.

It is always good to do what the teachers want and to give them what they want for them to work. Some of them are working under very difficult conditions, especially those in hardship areas, yet, even for hardship allowances, they have to demonstrate and go on strike. Even when they retire, some of them end up dying before getting their gratuity. It is important to mind the teachers.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I also want to comment on the statement about privatisation of companies and even private companies. In Machakos, I have a land issue where the Chairman of Matungulu Farmers’ Cooperative Society company wants to make it a private company for himself. The company is owned by 114 people who are supposed to be members. He wants to privatise it with only 46 people whom he has given shares. This is going to harm and hurt so many Kenyans. I do not support that.

Hon. Senators, allow me to rearrange the sequence here of today's Order Paper. We will come back to comments after we have dealt with Order Nos. 10, 11, 12, and 13.

Clerk, proceed to call those orders.

Services, Senate. Kangwaru Nyaga regarding the plight of the landless in Muthanthara, Embu County, laid on the Table of the Senate on Tuesday, 7th October, 2025.

Hon. Senators, I now put the question.

Let us go to the next Order.

Services, Senate.

(Resumption of debate interrupted on 29.10.2025 - Afternoon Sitting)

Hon. Senators, I now put the question.

We will now resume comments on the Statements sought. Let us begin with Sen. Essy Okenyuri.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for this opportunity. I would like to weigh in on Sen. Sifuna’s Statement concerning delayed payments to teachers. It paints a feeling of frustration and exploitation. I have personally grown up in the house of a teacher and the challenges I had then are the same we are experiencing right now.

I do not know. Is the problem the successive governments or we just do not need teachers? Worse still, right now lecturers are on strike and students in campuses who were to sit examinations are at home. The fear is that students might not graduate.

I urge the Committee that will look into this weighty Statement by Sen. Sifuna, to also focus on payment of allowances especially for teachers who mark examinations. For those who just finished supervising the Kenya Primary School Education Assessment (KPSEA) , someone will be paid Kshs1,600 for four days. However, they had to travel from, for example, Nyamarambe to Etago in Kisii. The distance does not match whatever those teachers are being compensated. We also have science teachers who supervise practical examinations. They are not compensated in any way and yet they spend a lot of their time trying to ensure that all the processes go on well.

The Kenya National Examination Council (KNEC) continues to frustrate and punish teachers because even where we have issues of allegations of cheating, KNEC issues blanket condemnation of even innocent teachers who are then stopped from going for marking. I fail to understand how fair that is.

The KNEC needs to wake up and address challenges of teachers, so that we do not keep lamenting year in, year out. Why would someone go to mark examinations, for your child who is at home, but then they have to wait for a very long time to get their dues, which are peanuts?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, these are issues that we need the Committee on Education to look into and furnish this House with solutions to some of the matters that I have raised in supporting Sen. Sifuna’s Statement.

I thank you.

Proceed, Sen. Olekina.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to make some brief comments on two Statements. First, I will begin with the Statement by the distinguished Senator for Busia with regard to the issue of Webuye Pan-Paper Mills.

Services, Senate.

If my memory serves me right, Webuye Pan Paper Mills was sold in 2016, after being idle for about nine years because of wallowing in debt. It was sold to a private entity. The role of the Government was simple; to facilitate the transaction because it was already under receivership. Why should we wait for about 10 years to raise a question about it? Is that not interfering with the private entity? In fact, the only role the Government had was to give a license and create a good environment for business.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I do not know whether the distinguished Senator was advised on this Statement. How are you going to ask a private entity that paid Kshs900 million what they have done with the investment? We have to be serious on certain questions.

The second one I want to comment on is the amazing Statement by Sen. Hamida on the issue of rapid test for Sickle Cell Disease (SCD). I know for a fact that the authority to approve the use of rapid test equipment lies with the Pharmacy and Poisons Board (PPB), which is regulated under the Pharmacy and Poisons Act. Yes, it is under the Ministry, but it is the PPB that approves. The Ministry only recommends use of those items.

When the Senate Committee on Health investigates this matter, it will be important to address it directly with the PPB because it is a semi-autonomous entity. Whether it is being disbanded or not, if my memory serves me right, it was established under Cap. 224 of the Pharmacy and Poisons Act. Even if we are going to repeal that Section of the law and come up with a new one, as I speak, those are the only people who can give us answers.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, still on the first Statement, I request the secretariat to be assisting us to understand the importance of the feedback that we get from the committees. A private entity should be allowed to it work privately.

I thank you.

Sen. Kinyua, you have the Floor.

Asante, Bw. Spika, kwa kunipa fursa hii. Ningependa kuchangia kuhusu Taarifa iliyoletwa na Sen. Sifuna kwa sababu walimu wanafanya kazi muhimu sana katika jamii. Ikiwa hawalipwi marupurupu yao baada ya kufanya kazi, hiyo inawavunja moyo. Utawapata wakifanya kazi kwa utepetevu kwa sababu hawapati malipo yao.

Ukitembelea sehemu nyingi wanazofanyia kazi, utaona kwamba sio nzuri. Hii ni kwa sababu wanaamka mapema. Kwa mfano, ukienda kule Laikipia, utapata kuwa wanapoenda shuleni, wanakutana na ndovu na wanyama wengine wa pori. Wanafanya kazi katika mazingira magumu sana. Kwa hivyo, wanapaswa kulipwa marupurupu yao kwa sababu wao ndio huweka misingi katiaka maisha ya watu wengi kwa kuwa wengi wanapitia katika mikono yao; wawe madaktari, mawakili na watu wengine katika nyadhifa mbalimbali. Walimu wanapaswa kuheshimiwa, mazingira yao ya kazi yanafaa kuangaliwa na vilevile marupurupu yao kulipwa kwa sababu hilo ndilo tegemeo la maisha bora.

Bw. Spika, taarifa ambayo imeletwa na Seneta wa Busia inahusu ubinafsishaji wa hizi kampuni za umma. Sijui ni mchipuko upi huu unaosema kwamba tukibinafsisha, Serikali itapata hela nyingi za kuwekwa kwenye bajeti. Sisi kama Wakenya, tunapaswa

Services, Senate. kuangalia ni vipi tutaweza kuwa na kampuni nyingi za kuongeza ushuru ili nchi yetu iweze kujizatiti bila kubinafsisha hizi kampuni.

Bw. Spika, nashukuru kwa kunipa fursa hii.

Services, Senate.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I wish to welcome the Youth Senators. Before coming to the Senate, I had an opportunity to serve as a Youth Senator. We were among the founding members, alongside Hon. Gideon Keter.

Youth Senators, you are welcome here; this is a platform to learn from. You can easily transition to national politics or if you are not getting into politics, you shape policy that offers solutions to the challenges that this country is facing.

You are very much welcome. Take the regards of Senators back to your home counties. We look forward to interacting and getting more people to the movement, so that we have transformative leadership, which we all yearn for.

Thank you.

Let us go to next Order, Clerk.

Just call Order No.9 as we wait for the Chairperson of Delegated Legislation to--- The Chairperson Standing Committee on Finance and Budget, proceed.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I beg to move- THAT, the National Assembly amendments to the County Governments Additional Allocation Bill (No.2) (Senate Bills No.8 of 2025) be now considered.

This Bill is Senate Bill No.2 of 2025. It underwent due process and consequently referred to the National Assembly for concurrence as required by our Standing Orders and the law. At the National Assembly, some amendments were considered.

Before I embark on the different amendments that the National Assembly effected, as a Committee, we were able to deliberate on those amendments. For the sake of the counties and service delivery to our people in the 47 counties, we agreed to consider the amendments that had been proposed by the National Assembly.

Today, as I move this Motion, I will be requesting colleague Senators to vote yes, so that we close this matter, this particular financial year. In the next financial year, any deficiencies that will have been incurred will be dealt with then.

As you know, the County Governments Additional Allocation Bill is of conditional and unconditional funds that we give to the counties beyond the equitable share that we normally allocate to them. In this regard, the Senate had approved a total of Kshs93.53 billion, conditional and unconditional funds to the counties for this Financial Year 2025/2026. Apparently, when the Bill went to the National Assembly, they reduced that figure from Kshs93.53 billion to Kshs70.66 billion.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the following were the amendments. First of all, is the issue of the construction of headquarters for five counties. This is a journey that we have

Services, Senate. embarked on as a Committee of Finance and Budget. We were able to deliberate with governors of those counties and what was needed for them to complete the construction of their headquarters was an amount of Kshs454 million. Apparently, what the National Assembly approved was Kshs449 million, but that was a reduction by Kshs5 million.

As a Committee, we looked at this and said, instead of the back and forth, we would ensure that the Kshs5 million is included in the next financial year so that the matter comes to an end.

As a Committee, the whole essence as to why we brought in different stakeholders such as the Public Works Department, the Ministry of Finance, the five governors and their Senators was to try and ensure that they get the money that had been allocated to them considering that there had been consistent delays in each financial year. This was done, so that on the issue of the headquarters---

Mr. Speaker, Sir, secondly, was on the issue that we have really had back and forth with the National Assembly is on the Roads Maintenance Levy Fund (RMLF) amounting to Kshs23.64 billion. The reason we agreed to this is simply because this matter is live in court. Both Houses felt that since it is a matter that is ongoing, we let the due court process take its course as directed by our Standing Orders. This money should be given to the counties, for them to continue doing road improvements and projects that our people need. However, we felt that since this money was still being held, it should not be the issue that makes us have a back and forth as far as this Bill is concerned.

Thirdly, on the issue of County Aggregation and Industrial Parks (CAIPs), we realised that some counties had started very well. The National Assembly proposed that counties whose projects had moved to a greater percentage, close to above 50 percent, should be given the balances of their money. Instead of allocating those funds to new counties for them to restart again, let the counties that have done massive implementation of the projects do them to completion, so that actualisation and value for money is felt.

Additionally, we had the issue of the Kenya Devolution Support Programme (KDSP), where some grants were revised, for instance, from Kshs1.76 billion to approximately Kshs3.43 billion. This is an increment. We also had the Kenya Informal Settlement Improvement Project (KISIP), whose allocation, through the World Bank, was approximately Kshs1 billion. This improvement was up to Kshs2.5 billion.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, as a Committee, we considered these differences in terms of how much the National Assembly reduced versus the timelines that we had for the counties to get the allocation. The differences will be factored in the next financial year. We did not want projects to stall or the counties not to be able to move.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, as I conclude, the other issue was on the total reduction, which is approximately Kshs23 billion. If Members are keen, they will realise that this amount is mostly from the Road Maintenance Levy Fund (RMLF). The Kshs23 billion, which forms the bigger chunk of the total of Kshs93 billion, is from the RMLF. Since the matter is live in court, we felt that the amount they have reduced was minimal for us to consider this particular amendment as a House and come to a closure of this particular amendment for this particular financial year.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, today being a Thursday, and since we want to dispense of with this Motion which touches each and every county, I would like to request that we be in

Services, Senate. the House, so that we dispense with it. I, therefore, would like to request my younger brother and colleague, Sen. Eddy, whom we sit in the same Committee, to second the Motion.

Let me use this opportunity to offer sincere and deep-hearted condolences, from myself and my dear family, following the demise of our great leader, Hon. Raila Amolo Odinga. When we met with Eddy today, I extended the same. As I call him to second, I wish to also sincerely extend the same and to the entire fraternity of the Orange Democratic Movement (ODM) Party.

Welcome, Sen. Eddy.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is my pleasure again to stand here to second this Motion on the amendments that have come from the National Assembly with regards to the County Governments Additional Allocation (No.2) (Senate Bills No.8 of 2025) .

Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is a routine Bill to second. I need to emphasise that continuous conversation around the County Governments Additional Allocation (No.2) (Senate Bills No.8 of 2025) has become prohibitive to development in counties. Therefore, I would like to urge my colleagues that we agree with this report and the overall amendments that have come from the National Assembly, not because we cannot fight further for some of these monies that we want, but because odious delay in passing this Bill leads to odious delay in terms of getting finances that go to the counties. Some of these battles extend beyond the wars between the National Assembly and the Senate.

When this Bill came about, for instance, we were seeking about Kshs93 billion that was supposed to go to counties. A big part of this, approximately Kshs23 billion, was the contentious issue of the RMLF, which has not been given consideration here. If you look at the Kshs5 million that has been adjusted from Kshs454 million to about Kshs449 million, it is the adjustment on the headquarters issues, which affects five counties. However, the bulk that I want to centre on is that of the RMLF. We are lucky that I am also the Chairperson of the Senate Standing Committee on Roads, Transportation and Housing, under the broad-based government. I have done a lot of work on this RMLF issue. Remember, the court decision that favoured this House, that required that the Ministry develops regulations and an understanding that will allow for this money to eventually go to counties, emanated from the effort that was done from the Senate Standing Committee on Finance and Budget, as well as our Committee on Roads, Transportation and Housing.

That said, we still have an active case, Civil Appeal No.E423 of 2025, which involved the National Assembly, and Issa Elanyi Chamao, and 14 others. This case is forming a dark cloud over this Kshs23 billion that encompasses the RMLF.

I would advise the House that, in reference to matters of spending in court, if we do not pass this Bill and keep on fighting on the issue of RMLF, it means that the Kshs70 billion that has already been approved for counties will equally delay. As we know, we are in concurrence with the National Assembly on the Kshs70 billion.

Therefore, I urge the House to pass the Bill as it is and allow for the Kshs70 billion to go. I would like to categorically say that is not indicative of any lack of effort or sense of giving up on the RMLF fight. We are still going to fight it. Let the court decision

Services, Senate. take due process. Once that court decision is done, we are still going to take it forward and fight for it.

I do not want the fight on RMLF to stop on the issue of the 18 percent chunk of the Road Maintenance Levy Fund that we are talking about. I have been vocal this entire year on the issue of the securitisation of the road bond, where Kshs179 billion has been securitised by the Ministry of Roads and Transport to make sure that money is raised for contractors to go on with those roads, and help pay the contractors that are doing the roads that have been pending for the last one year.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, my concern has been that, if we have a roads bond that is going to pay contractors at the national level, including those who gave way leaves for those roads, it would be unfair to talk about the RMLF only in the context of the money that has been used to maintain roads and not to look at the Kshs7 that has been put into the road bond.

Going with the court issue that we had, we must make sure that the road bond goes to the roads that are being done by counties to also pay those contractors. That is the clarity I wanted to make, so that no one will say that we have given up on the Kshs23 billion road levy. It is just an issue of the court and we must work on it.

With that said, I will finish by saying that unlocking some of these monies or rather adjusting to the monies by World Bank on Kenya Devolution Support Programme (KDSP) as well as on Kenya Informal Settlement Improvement Project (KISIP) is a critical one. This is an area that, as a House, we have staggered on in terms of oversight and accountability. Even as we align them, both on level one and level two, I remind the House that the next critical responsibility is to ensure that we put a framework to oversight those monies when they go to the counties.

I will not belabour because I know you want to see whether Members can contribute as well as vote on this today. I also hope that the Senate Majority Whip, who I am not seeing in the House, and the Leadership from my side, though I am happy that the Senator for Nairobi is here, the Deputy Minority Whip, can get us Members to vote on these Bills. Then we will get the Kshs70 billion back home and do our duty.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, as we do this, I urge counties, especially those that are bordering Tanzania, to make sure that there is security on our borders because what is happening in Tanzania is completely ridiculous. We have seen the jirani, who used to laugh at us and talk negatively about our country, saying that our children are bad-mannered, they have now moved from suluhu to tatizo. We are seeing that in Tanzania.

Sen. Eddy, relevance? Conclude and take your seat.

I am concluding by saying that counties like Migori, where I come from, should be vigilant. Even as we send them money, that money should work in a peaceful environment without getting affected by what is happening in Tanzania.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, thank you, and I second.

Sen. Richard Onyonka. Senator, before you take to the Floor, I will first propose the question.

Services, Senate.

The Floor is now open. I have hon. Senators wishing to say something.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I would like to make a few remarks about this discussion we are having in the House. It is interesting that if you look at the United States of America (USA) right now, the government is having a shutdown because of events which are almost exactly what is happening here, on whether the National Assembly should agree with the Senate on the shareable revenue.

As Senators, however, we must now engage to decide on whether we will accept that this will be our modus operandi in order for county governments to receive the money that they deserve. After we have discussed all this and agreed amongst us, the National Assembly usually goes and decides that the figures we have either discussed or agreed upon, according to them, should not be adopted.

This has been very frustrating to us, as Members of the Committee on Finance and Budget, but we understand that we are in very difficult times. As a result, you will notice that it is my party that has seconded this discussion. I will, therefore, not disagree with my party, but I am asking this: can we, as the Senate, agree that we will finally cure this ping-pong game that takes place between the National Assembly and the Senate?

In other words, we have to sit down as a team and agree if we are going to make the Senate the Upper House, so that when we are having debates at the level of agreeing what the sector allocations will be, the deliberations and what the ministries and all the engaged parties are going to receive as the revenue, then we must be on that table. We cannot be the only people who come and discuss when it comes to shareable revenue.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I believe that we should sit from inception and discuss all the revenues collected, look at what the donor funding is all about and finally agree that we will do this. Otherwise, because my friend and brother, Eddy Oketch, has made the case reasonably well and for some of us who are in the mood of mourning, we do not want to be combative with our brothers, we will let it pass.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I support.

The Senator of Nairobi City County.

I was laughing, Mr. Speaker, Sir, because I do not know if the Senator for Kisii has seen the Schedule at page 15 of that Report, that the number one county on that schedule that is losing up to half of the money that was scheduled or passed by this Senate, is Kisii County. The money that was passed by the Senate was Kshs250 million, but the National Assembly has slashed it to Kshs127 million.

I know that some people are trying to tell us here that we should not question, for whatever reason, the decisions that the Committee on Finance and Budget made, but the Committee has a responsibility to explain to us what the National Assembly’s rationale for those reductions was.

In my view, for instance, if you look at the amount of money that had been passed by this House regarding the county headquarters for the five counties in that Schedule at page 15 of the Report, the National Assembly removed Kshs1 million from each county. There are five counties there; Isiolo, Lamu, Nyandarua, Tana River and Tharaka Nithi. Where the Senate has passed Kshs60 million, the National Assembly has reduced it to Kshs59 million; Kshs121 million to Kshs120 million for Lamu, Kshs121 million to

Services, Senate. Kshs120 million for Nyandarua; Kshs121 million to Kshs120 million for Tana River; and, Kshs31 million to Kshs30 million for Tharaka Nithi.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, at the very minimum, this looks like an arbitrary action, but to me, a flexing of muscles that the National Assembly can show the Senate that they can do these things. What is the rationale? I mean, the Committee should explain to me what the scientific reason was behind moving the allocation for Isiolo from Kshs60 million to Kshs59 million.

That is a conversation we want to have, because for us who believe in devolution, we see a situation where the National Assembly most of the time, blackmails governors and county governments into accepting things. You have heard the language that has been used here by some of my colleagues, who are members of the Committee on Finance and Budget; that let us just do this so that the money is released in order for counties not to suffer.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have had conversations with governors when they appear before the County Public Accounts Committee (CPAC) of the Senate. I have asked them, is it not possible one financial year, for us, as a family of devolution, to tell the National Assembly that; you can keep all the money you want until you can give us all that we deserve as a family of devolution because this is open blackmail? Every single time, this is the argument.

What Sen. Eddy has failed to mention to you is that the High Court, which has jurisdiction to determine the constitutionality of the laws that we pass here, has already declared the removal of sums of money to do with RMLF from the county governments unconstitutional. I am aware there is a Court of Appeal stay of that decision, but the constitutional court has already determined that, in fact, that was unconstitutional.

This is blackmail that every single time we are not in agreement with our brothers in the National Assembly, they threaten that we need to allow that to go, so that we can get a fraction of what we deserve.

So, a reduction of the amount from Kshs93 billion to Kshs70 billion is a matter that we, the Senate, must be concerned about. It has become fashionable for people to throw around these words in every single discussion that comes up, “we in broad-based government.” I want to remind them that the broad-based government is based on a 10- point agenda; one of which was to ensure that county governments are fully financed and devolution is protected.

So, those running around with those words should always remember that there is an agreement which is the underpinning of that relationship. If they do not do what that agreement says, then they cannot run around talking about broad-based government. Those who like to run around with those words should read the agreement.

I have said here before, and Baba also told the country, that I am the one who wrote that agreement. Therefore, someone should not argue with me about its contents. I know exactly what it says; its spirit and the intention of that agreement. So, if there will be a reduction in amounts going to counties of that magnitude, I, as the Secretary General of the Orange Democratic Movement (ODM), and as a Senator who swore to protect devolution, must raise the alarm. Let us not hear excuses from the Committee on Finance and Budget.

Services, Senate.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I have no problem with Sen. Oketch Gicheru’s point of order. However, he should give us an explanation of the Kshs1 million reduction from the five counties. That money was allocated for construction of---

Hon. Members, allow Sen. Sifuna to conclude. I believe he is concluding.

Sen. Sifuna, I am giving you the Floor to conclude.

The what?

I am giving you the Floor to conclude.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker, Sir. It is incumbent upon Members of the Committee on Finance and Budget to explain things when moving their Report. We are not Members of that Committee. If they did not ask these questions, we have a right to ask them. I have only asked for the rationale because it appears to me as an arbitrary plugging of figures from the air.

If a Member of that Committee can explain to us why the National Assembly reduced Kshs1 million from Isiolo County, then I am ready and willing to hear that explanation. The Mover and the Seconder of the Report never said anything. If you look at the reduction in allocations of Kisii County aggregation and industrial parks, you will note that they have reduced it by half. You have heard some of my colleagues shouting that you put the question. They are doing that because they do not want to interrogate these matters.

As for me, a person who was sworn in to defend devolution, I will ask these questions year in, year out. I want the Senate and its committees to show a bit more spine and not capitulate at the hands of the National Assembly for fear of being blackmailed and told that counties will suffer and salaries will not be paid. I had the opportunity of visiting one of the industrial parks being done by Kiambu County in Githunguri. That County is waiting for this money to process. In fact, when we were there, the issue was that the County was unable to match those funds.

Services, Senate.

This is part of the discussion about devolution and protection of devolution. The national Government came up with these programs without knowing or consulting the county governments for it to know where the resources for these projects was going to come from. Kiambu County has been unable to match.

The Governor of Makueni County appeared before our Committee, the Committee on County Public Accounts, and told us that for Makueni County, the feedback that they gave to the national Government was that their priority was not those county industrial and aggregation parks. However, since someone had sat in Nairobi and decided that these things must be built despite what the ground is saying is their priority, they are going to build them whether they like it or not.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we swore an oath to defend those county governments and their interests. We have a responsibility to say no and push back the national Government overreach of devolved functions. Therefore, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir---

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

Sen. Oketch Gicheru, what is your point of order?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I rise under the Standing Order No.105 on the statement of facts. Perhaps, my good friend, Sen. Sifuna’s statements borders Standing Order No.101. He insinuated that we are perhaps using the word “broad-based government” to protect a conversation around this Bill.

It is a fact, and Sen. Sifuna should understand, that a big chunk of money has not come here, because it has been blocked by law. The matter is in court and there is nothing we can do about it. He is a lawyer and I presume that he indeed believes in the broad- based government. He wrote the 10-point broad-based government agenda, and he is the Senate Deputy Minority Whip. I did not join the broad-based government on my own volition. He whipped me to join the broad-based government. He actually signed this document. On two issues---

Sen. Oketch Gicheru, are you debating or are you raising a point of order?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the point of order is---

You have actually said---

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I said that I rise under Standing Order No.101. I am first of all dealing with Standing Order No.101 because my defence for this particular Bill was insinuated to be influenced by the fact that we are in the broad-based government, so I just want us to pass this.

Go to Standing Order No.105.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, allow me finish this.

Go to Standing Order No.105 because that is the question Sen. Sifuna was asking. He wants a justification or explanation from the Committee on some of those---

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, Standing Order No.105 is on responsibility for statement of fact. The Road Maintenance Levy Fund (RMLF) has been delayed because the matter is actively in court. It has not been delayed because of the

Services, Senate. broad-based government. The issue is in court. In fact, he, as a lawyer, should perhaps join the devolution family in court, to try and resolve the things being delayed by court.

Very well, Sen. Oketch Gicheru, you have made your point. Take your seat.

Sen. Sifuna, part of the point of order which I will rule as not being in order is the explanation to the question you asked from the Committee. You said that they ought to have given an explanation as to why part of that money has not been released. You have heard the Member say that there is a matter in court and that suffices, to some extent, as an explanation in as much as it does not necessarily answer the concerns you have raised conclusively. I know that you are entitled, as a Member of this House, to raise questions when debating a report.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I have dedicated my life to teaching people who are in the broad-based government. First, the stay in the Court of Appeal did not stop Parliament from legislating. A court cannot stop one from putting a schedule on a piece of legislation. That is what they should know. Luckily, you were my classmate at the University of Nairobi, so you know what I am saying.

Number two, the Senate was aware that the court case was going on. In our wisdom, we never removed the RMLA from the statute. So, what happens when you wake up tomorrow, for instance, and find that the court order has lifted, yet you have a schedule that does not have RMLF? Do you start the process over again? The court did not stop us from doing our job as legislators and making laws. He has to understand these things. We know them. Sen. Oketch Gicheru is not a lawyer, so I will forgive him.

The Members of the Committee on Finance and Budget should take time and explain to us. If I come here with a report of the Committee on County Public Accounts or Committee on Energy where I sit, I will have the responsibility of giving an explanation on our report. That is because I am the one who interacted with those decisions and discussions, hence I have to explain.

I asked the Members of the Committee to give us a rationale because these counties are not the same. Isiolo, Lamu, Nyandarua, Tana River, Tharaka Nithi are not the same. So, how come the National Assembly reduced the same amount across the board? What is the rationale? If you look at the initial allocation, Isiolo County had only been given Kshs60 million? Lamu County had been given Kshs121 million, which is almost double that. So, if there is a reduction, you would expect it to be proportionate, yet nobody has bothered to explain that to us. They are just shouting that the question be put.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, they have a responsibility to explain.

No, I have heard enough from laymen. You will now listen to the lawyers. I do not want your information.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we will fight for the family of devolution. This is what we swore to do. Some people are running around here saying there were two days of Raila. What would Raila say to a Bill that has reduced county allocation from Kshs90 million to Kshs70 million? He would not be here telling me that we are in the broad-

Services, Senate. based government. He would say ‘takataka.’ So, those of us who knew the man, allow us to tell you what he would have done.

I thank you.

Sen. Onyonka.

Order, Sen. Onyonka, I am notified here that you already spoke to this Motion. Take your seat.

Take your seat. I was giving you the platform to debate on the Motion. That is what we are currently debating.

Sen. Agnes Kavindu, proceed.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Even as I support this Report from the Committee on Finance and Budget, the National Assembly has no right to deduct the monies that we allocate to counties because they do not deal with counties; they deal with the National Assembly matters. So, anything to do with the counties, they should just respect us and leave it at our suggestion.

Two, counties are having a lot of issues right now because of the e-procurement. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, if you can pay attention and listen to what I am saying. Right now, from July, I do not think there is any county that has been able to procure anything because of the e-procurement. According to the counties, the system is not working. I hope that the that money we are going to pass is not going just to lie at the National Treasury doing nothing until the money is returned. However, they should also see what can be done through the e-procurement system, so that counties can start being operational because there are many projects that are stalled in the counties and counties must be working. I do not know if the Committee on Finance and Budget can also intervene in the e-procurement issues in the counties.

Thank you.

Sen. Boni Khalwale, did you queue to speak to this Motion or you wanted to speak earlier on the Statements? We have a problem with the system, so we---

I am sorry, that was when I was asking for a point of order. I am now good.

Okay. Sen. Catherine Mumma,

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I do not know what the system is all about, whether my name is not being seen or whether there is some strategic arrangement.

Sen. Catherine Mumma, I can assure you that there is no malice on the part of the Secretariat or the Chair to deny you. It is the system.

Services, Senate.

Sen. Mumma: I know you not to be malicious. I know the Secretariat is also not malicious. It is just said in jest. Allow me to speak to this issue.

I rise to support the passing of this Bill. However, I want to associate myself with the sentiments made by Sen. Onyonka and Sen. Sifuna in terms of how Parliament is taking its responsibilities on this matter.

I wish to call upon our Committee on Finance and Budget to help us to play our role in terms of Article 96 on protecting devolution by enabling us to actually report in an accountable manner, so that we can clearly indicate to the citizens of Kenya why we must have a back and forth between the two Houses.

I feel that, as Parliament, we have failed Kenyans when it comes to matters relating to additional allocation funds. Additional allocation funds are funds that are deployed towards the Government of the day's projects largely. These are funds that are negotiated with development partners to deliver on certain development projects that have been previously discussed with development partners to take place in counties on county functions. So, why would we take so much time having agreed with development partners that the bulk of these funds are loans, which we are going to pay with interest? Why Parliament would choose this to be the arena for showing off their egos between the two levels is not acceptable.

Even as I say so, I served in the Mediation Committee on this Bill and the level of arrogance shown particularly by then Chairperson of the Committee on Budget in the National Assembly, Hon. Ndindi Nyoro, who is now speaking as if he is a saint; in terms of trying to discuss this issue; the role he played in delaying the passing of this Bill is not acceptable. Once you have negotiated that the World Bank is going to give us a loan, this other development partner is going to give us a loan to deliver on “X”. Why must we wait for the egos of parliamentarians before we deploy that loan? I do not understand why we do that.

I would have liked this Committee to report to Kenyans in terms of the amount of time lost in implementing the projects that were intended to be implemented by the additional allocation funds, and how much we have lost in terms of the interest we will pay on loans because of the delays caused by Parliament.

I believe it is time that the Committee on Finance and Budget tells Kenyans that, as a result of this delay, Kenyans are going to lose so many millions. I would have liked to see the report of the Committee on Finance and Budget in terms of the impact of not beginning these projects on time. I would have liked to know from this Committee whether, in fact, some of those projects begun, given the time of the delay with this issue.

The County Aggregation and Industrial Parks (CAIPs) are national Government projects. It is Kenya Kwanza which came up with the idea of giving Kshs250 million to be merged by county governments to start the economic zones. Why do we have a reduction in this money? We would want the Government to go back to the people and say the idea we had around establishing the economic zones cannot be fully implemented because of this. So, we are reducing it as a result of this.

Are we going to continue telling Kenyans that this project is going on when, in actual fact, we have removed the money that will deliver on this issue? We need the Committee to be speaking to these issues, so that those who tell the people on the podium

Services, Senate. that we will deliver “X”, but come in Parliament and claw back on those amounts, should be called out to the public. That way, the public knows the promise that was made here is unlikely to happen because there is a push and pull between Members of Parliament who think this should happen in this manner.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the Road Maintenance Levy Fund (RMLF) is before the courts, so I understand the fact that it has been held. However, why reduce the Kshs5 million on the building of the headquarters? I would want to understand. I would want some explanation from those of you in that Committee. We are calling it ‘only Kshs5 million; but I would want to know. I am quoting the Mover of this Bill.

Services, Senate. that we will deliver “X”, but come in Parliament and claw back on those amounts, should be called out to the public. That way, the public knows the promise that was made here is unlikely to happen because there is a push and pull between Members of Parliament who think this should happen in this manner.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the Road Maintenance Levy Fund (RMLF) is before the courts, so I understand the fact that it has been held. However, why reduce the Kshs5 million on the building of the headquarters? I would want to understand. I would want some explanation from those of you in that Committee. We are calling it ‘only Kshs5 million; but I would want to know. I am quoting the Mover of this Bill.

Sen. Mumma, do you want to be informed by Sen. Eddy?

I refuse to be informed because I am just quoting the Mover of the Bill, who tried to persuade us to say it is only Kshs5 million that has been reduced and, therefore, we should just pass this.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I am supporting the passing, but I want to understand why is the Kshs5 million an only? By the way, in 2013, it is the national Government that offered to build headquarters in the counties that are concerned. Why has it taken 13 years for the national Government to deliver on its promise to build headquarters for the counties? It is just part of the tactics of the national Government to claw back and frustrate devolution.

Our job is to defend devolution and I would want to ask the Committee to, please, not reduce us to be rubberstamps of the National Assembly. We need to tell Kenyans the cost analysis and what it costs and the impact that this nonsense is causing to this country.

What is your point of order, Sen. Eddy?

Services, Senate.

In the Appropriation Bill that was brought, I wish they read them together with Sen. Sifuna, that Kshs5 million was put as administrative costs looking at that particular implementation. That is where the Kshs5 million went to. It was not taken out by us.

Services, Senate.

In the Appropriation Bill that was brought, I wish they read them together with Sen. Sifuna, that Kshs5 million was put as administrative costs looking at that particular implementation. That is where the Kshs5 million went to. It was not taken out by us.

Sen. Eddy---

Just a minute, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

Sen. Eddy, you have made your point and I will give direction. Take your seat.

Just a minute Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I just want to urge Sen. Mumma and all our colleagues to fight for---

Sen. Eddy, take your seat. That point is already made.

Sen. Mumma, I direct that you confine yourself to content that does not necessarily impute any improper motive on the part of the Members of this Committee.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I am well guided and I would want to repeat that I never imputed an improper motive on the Committee. I have asked the Committee---

Sen. Mumma, you did when you said that the kind of nonsense they give you is to rubberstamp.

The kind of nonsense Parliament---

Refrain from going to that direction.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, please, get me. It was not that kind of nonsense of the Committee. It was the kind of nonsense Parliament is subjecting this country to. We are all parliamentarians and I would want to---

Order, Sen. Tabitha. Order, Sen. Kavindu Muthama.

That is not parliamentary language.

Order, Sen. Kavindu Muthama.

Services, Senate. by these shenanigans? Yes! I would want you to tell us how much time we have wasted because it must be the National Assembly or the Senate that wins in this game.

So, as I finalise and support, I want to support Sen. Onyonka by saying we must find a formula that will ensure additional allocation funds are not subjected to a process that actually delays it unduly because those are funds that are ring-fenced. They are funds that should not be causing arguments, but we have subjected them to so much argument.

It is important that Kenyans understand this; that Parliament can do better than use public money in the manner in which we are using it. We do not have enough youth employed. We have our lecturers on the streets. We are not paying teachers. Our hospitals could do with more money. We cannot afford to take loans and waste them in the manner in which we are wasting them.

I submit, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

Services, Senate. by these shenanigans? Yes! I would want you to tell us how much time we have wasted because it must be the National Assembly or the Senate that wins in this game.

So, as I finalise and support, I want to support Sen. Onyonka by saying we must find a formula that will ensure additional allocation funds are not subjected to a process that actually delays it unduly because those are funds that are ring-fenced. They are funds that should not be causing arguments, but we have subjected them to so much argument.

It is important that Kenyans understand this; that Parliament can do better than use public money in the manner in which we are using it. We do not have enough youth employed. We have our lecturers on the streets. We are not paying teachers. Our hospitals could do with more money. We cannot afford to take loans and waste them in the manner in which we are wasting them.

I submit, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

Thank you, Sen. Mumma. Now, Hon. Senators, I will call upon the Mover, Sen. Tabitha Mutinda to reply.

Sen. Tabitha Mutinda, Sen. Olekina is requesting that you donate two minutes of your time because I have already called you.

You are out of order, Sen. Osotsi. Sen. Tabitha Mutinda, if you are willing, fine. If you are not, proceed to reply.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for the humble request. I will allow the two minutes to my big brother, Sen. Olekina and then I will proceed.

I thank you.

Sen. Olekina, your time is running.

Services, Senate. really put the Senate on a higher pedestal by always making sure that they carry out proper due diligence and they carry out proper research.

For the very first time, when we discussed the issue of the new revenue formula, a new formula was brought where smaller counties were accommodated. This is something that was unheard of. So, I really appreciate the work that this Committee has done. I hope that now this money, having yielded to the pressure and the money being reduced by the Kshs23 billion, which is specifically the money for the RMLF, ultimately, we will win the war.

The late Rt. Hon. Raila used to tell me that our victory has just been delayed, but ultimately, we will be the victors. In this case of devolution, with the spirit of Raila Odinga, the spirit of the oneness and the unity of this House, we will achieve to send more monies to counties, and one day, I hope that during our lifetime, our counties will be fully autonomous.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

Services, Senate. really put the Senate on a higher pedestal by always making sure that they carry out proper due diligence and they carry out proper research.

For the very first time, when we discussed the issue of the new revenue formula, a new formula was brought where smaller counties were accommodated. This is something that was unheard of. So, I really appreciate the work that this Committee has done. I hope that now this money, having yielded to the pressure and the money being reduced by the Kshs23 billion, which is specifically the money for the RMLF, ultimately, we will win the war.

The late Rt. Hon. Raila used to tell me that our victory has just been delayed, but ultimately, we will be the victors. In this case of devolution, with the spirit of Raila Odinga, the spirit of the oneness and the unity of this House, we will achieve to send more monies to counties, and one day, I hope that during our lifetime, our counties will be fully autonomous.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

Sen. Tabitha Mutinda, you may now proceed.

Services, Senate.

We convened in this very Chamber, with the governors, officials from the Ministry of Lands, Public Works, Housing and Urban Development, the former Cabinet Secretary for the National Treasury and Economic Planning and ourselves as a Committee, to deliberate and resolve the quagmire. We engaged the Committee on Finance and Budget and emphasised the importance of these funds for the completion of the county headquarters.

This is not a political matter. It is in the spirit of the late Hon. Raila Amolo Odinga and devolution that we continue to champion these principles. The Kshs5 million in question, Kshs1 million per county, is allocated for administrative costs. I wish the concerned Members were present to understand this. I am proud of my fellow Committee Members for helping bring closure to the county headquarters issue. We have made history.

When Sen. Cathy raised concerns about interest rates on these loans, I want to note that today, in our Committee on Finance and Budget, we discussed loans procured by the Government between May and the end of August. We raised critical questions.

Now, focusing on these specific funds, conditional and unconditional allocations, sourced from the World Bank, International Fund for Development (IFD) and other financial institutions, they are funds that accrue interest. They come with commitment fees, service fees and as I discovered today, a fee called the front-end and back-end fee among others. When we delay, these funds risk being withdrawn by the financiers if we do not pass this Bill. Who suffers? The counties.

As much as I heard my good colleague say he is in the legal profession, some of us are in the financial profession. Sen. Cathy Mumma, who is also a lawyer, I respect her, but she is not present to understand the financial knowledge that we offer. I appreciated when my elder brother, Sen. Olekina, noted that for the first time in history, this House passed the revenue sharing formula without issues. When smaller counties approached this Committee and requested consideration, we listened.

This year, during mediation on the issue of Division of Revenue Act (DORA), we had a push and pull with Members of the National Assembly, but we stood firm. Every financial year, we have secured increments for counties. We have done our best to ensure counties receive their rightful allocations.

Now, narrowing down to what has been reduced, it is inadequate. Out of the total Kshs 93 billion, only Kshs 70 billion has been allocated. The remaining Kshs 23 billion, as I explained, is for the Road Maintenance Levy Fund (RMLF). It is currently tied up in court proceedings. What are we supposed to do? People are looking for content and relevance. Kenyans want facts and figures do not lie. Figures are factual and that is what we offer.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, with those few remarks, I thank the Secretariat of the Standing Committee on Finance and Budget, led by our Clerk Assistant, Mr. Gitonga, Legal Counsel, Ms. Lucy, who is a very brilliant young lady, Beverlyn, Kioko and many others with whom we work closely to ensure our reports are accurate and timely.

At this point, pursuant to Standing Order No.66(3), I beg that the putting of the question be deferred to another date.

Thank you.

Services, Senate.

Services, Senate.

Thank you, Sen. Tabitha. Pursuant to Standing Order No.66 (3) , the putting of the question is hereby deferred to the next sitting of the House.

Hon. Members, in order to facilitate the next business of the House, I will rearrange the Order Paper. I now direct that we proceed to Order No.23.

Clerk, please, call out Order No.23.

Services, Senate.

Hon. Senators, this is the resumption of debate that was interrupted on Wednesday, 1st October, 2025, during the Morning Sitting. Sen. Cherarkey was on the Floor and has a balance of 15 minutes to continue with his contribution.

Sen. Cherarkey, you may take the Floor.

Services, Senate. This is because you heard the Cabinet Secretary, and it is on record; you can produce the HANSARD. We want to tell the CoG that if they do not want to absorb the young people into employment, they should release the 7,000 plus to the Ministry of Health for the Cabinet Secretary to absorb them to the referral hospitals that we have.

We have Moi Teaching and Referral Hospital (MTRH) and we are building a brand-new South Rift Referral Hospital in Kipkelion. We have the Coast General Hospital. There is one in Kakamega that we want to transit. There is Kenyatta National Hospital (KNH). There is Jaramogi Oginga Odinga Referral Hospital that the President just gazetted the other day as a state corporation.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, can you believe that governors cannot confirm UHC staff, who assist us to provide medical services, but they are quick to hire people who carry their tissue papers, seats, welcome them and organise their seats. Have you seen the advance team of governors? They come in advance, clear everybody, then they put the seats, yet they cannot confirm the young people that we have in this country. On this issue of interns, the biggest obstacle in UHC staff confirmation is the CoG.

Secondly, it is unbelievable that less than 20 per cent of interns secure full-time public sector employment post-internship. It is very important that we create something called public service graduate talent pool to match the interns with the young people. Let us create the public service graduate talent pool, so that we know if you are a trained lawyer, mechanic or doctor, there is a pool of service graduates.

It is sad to say this. It is unfortunate most of these interns, whenever they are given an internship, they are not doing their internship work. Most of their seniors misuse and abuse them. When you walk into most of these offices, interns have been reduced to be tea girls and tea boys. They are cleaning offices. They are being sent to collect personal letters. They are being even subjected to sexual favours among other favours, including carrying lunches and doing laundry for their bosses. I am lucky because when I was doing my pupillage, my supervisor and my boss was Ms. Wanjiku Sera. You know that I am not a tribalist. My supervisor as a pupil was known as Ms. Wanjiku Sera Karuga. She did not subject me to what my colleagues were subjected to when they were pupils.

I remember when I was doing my judicial attachment and travelling from Mosoriot to Kapsabet, most of my intern colleagues were being subjected to some funny business by their bosses in the offices. We need to ensure dignity of interns; that the young people are protected. I am happy to have interacted with a number of interns in your law firm, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, and I was impressed that you are treating them with dignity.

Let this issue of misusing and abusing interns stop. They are vulnerable because they are financially constrained and they may want to look for relevant. Why should anyone do this to young people? This is our future. Let us mentor them. Let us not abuse them. Let us give them the opportunity to grow.

Another aspect you have to note is that most of the bosses and permanent and pensionable employees - I am not saying including, the Table Office, some of them are selfish. They do not want to teach the interns. They do not want to show them the ways.

Services, Senate. There is a Shaolin table movie. They say, “Master, show us your ways.” They do not want to show it. Therefore, I am appealing that let us also give dignity.

I only have four points. The third point is, let us increase the stipend. Apart from transiting to permanent and pensionable, let us increase the stipend. How do you pay Kshs15,000 to an intern in Nairobi? A sum of Kshs15,000 is lunch to some big boys in this town. With Kshs15,000, where will you get a house, even somewhere in Mulot whose rent is Kshs3,000? In my time, I used to live at home in Mosoriot, and at that time, to travel from Mosoriot to Kapsabet was Kshs35. Now it is Kshs100 or more; even from Mosoriot to Eldoret. Things have changed. The cost of living has gone up. How do you give an intern Kshs15,000 as a stipend? That is why they are prone to abuse. They are being misused because they do not have finances. I meet parents, most of the time and they tell me, “my child is doing internship in Nairobi, Mombasa or anywhere, but they want money for rent and transport because we are giving them Kshs15,000.” How do you pay a young person Kshs15,000 in this day and era?

Let us give even them, for instance, Kshs50,000. With this, they can get a decent housing in Ngumo, Rongai or Mukuru kwa Reuben. At least, they can get a house whose rent is Kshs10,000 or Kshs15,000. They can even get one in High Rise, where I was living. We were living four men in one room. It is not imaginable, but that is how we survived. When we were in Kenya School of Law (KSL), serious lawyers like us used to live like squatters because you have to share the room you live in; you do not see even the sunlight. When in your room, you do not know whether it is daytime or night.

Let us improve the stipend to Kshs 50,000, so that the youth interns can have an opportunity to live a decent life; buy clothes, get transport, food and better rental house. Let us make it to Kshs50,000 or more, so that the young people can--- I am not saying it should be increased, so that the young people waende wapige sherehe. That is not the point. I want them to live a decent life. I want them, as they learn, to get better lunch and a good environment. I have talked to most of the interns, they want to learn. They want to be permanent and pensionable in employment. They want to grow. They want to serve this nation. That should be our rallying call. It is not in their interest that they just want money to go for ‘rave’ or kupiga sherehe. It is the interest that they want to develop their skills

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I have seen the light is on. That is why I am proposing that we increase the current stipend from Kshs15,000 to Kshs30,000. I challenge the National Assembly, the Senate and the County Assemblies---

Services, Senate. There is a Shaolin table movie. They say, “Master, show us your ways.” They do not want to show it. Therefore, I am appealing that let us also give dignity.

I only have four points. The third point is, let us increase the stipend. Apart from transiting to permanent and pensionable, let us increase the stipend. How do you pay Kshs15,000 to an intern in Nairobi? A sum of Kshs15,000 is lunch to some big boys in this town. With Kshs15,000, where will you get a house, even somewhere in Mulot whose rent is Kshs3,000? In my time, I used to live at home in Mosoriot, and at that time, to travel from Mosoriot to Kapsabet was Kshs35. Now it is Kshs100 or more; even from Mosoriot to Eldoret. Things have changed. The cost of living has gone up. How do you give an intern Kshs15,000 as a stipend? That is why they are prone to abuse. They are being misused because they do not have finances. I meet parents, most of the time and they tell me, “my child is doing internship in Nairobi, Mombasa or anywhere, but they want money for rent and transport because we are giving them Kshs15,000.” How do you pay a young person Kshs15,000 in this day and era?

Let us give even them, for instance, Kshs50,000. With this, they can get a decent housing in Ngumo, Rongai or Mukuru kwa Reuben. At least, they can get a house whose rent is Kshs10,000 or Kshs15,000. They can even get one in High Rise, where I was living. We were living four men in one room. It is not imaginable, but that is how we survived. When we were in Kenya School of Law (KSL), serious lawyers like us used to live like squatters because you have to share the room you live in; you do not see even the sunlight. When in your room, you do not know whether it is daytime or night.

Let us improve the stipend to Kshs 50,000, so that the youth interns can have an opportunity to live a decent life; buy clothes, get transport, food and better rental house. Let us make it to Kshs50,000 or more, so that the young people can--- I am not saying it should be increased, so that the young people waende wapige sherehe. That is not the point. I want them to live a decent life. I want them, as they learn, to get better lunch and a good environment. I have talked to most of the interns, they want to learn. They want to be permanent and pensionable in employment. They want to grow. They want to serve this nation. That should be our rallying call. It is not in their interest that they just want money to go for ‘rave’ or kupiga sherehe. It is the interest that they want to develop their skills

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I have seen the light is on. That is why I am proposing that we increase the current stipend from Kshs15,000 to Kshs30,000. I challenge the National Assembly, the Senate and the County Assemblies---

Sen. Cherarkey, I want to bring your attention to Standing Order No.92. I have listened to you on two comments you have made on the language that you used in your submissions. Stick to the rules.

Services, Senate.

I propose that we increase the stipend from Kshs15,000 to Kshs30,000 then Kshs50,000. If one is an intern within a city, they should get a stipend of Kshs50,000. For other small towns like Chepalungu, Mulot, Bomet, Kapsabet, Kabiyet, Kabasi--- Nakuru is a city. I do not know whether Kenol in Murang’a is a city, but we should increase the amount.

I know a number of us did it, but I do not know whether Sen. Karen Nyamu went for internship. Some of us are familiar with the challenges that most of these young people face. We must be careful, so that we protect and ensure---

My final remark to the young people is this. As we push for permanent and pensionable terms for those who undertake their internship in the public service and increase the stipend, we also want them to be disciplined and follow work ethics.

We are pushing for an increase of the stipend and their dignity, but we do not want to have situations where they report to work at 9.00 a.m. If work ethics require them to report at 8.00 a.m., they should be there by 7.30 a.m. Most of them do not have children. What excuse do they have not to report to work early and even leave late? This is my advice to them. If it reaches 5.00 p.m., ask your boss to give you a few assignments and make sure you finish them. You never know because you could be retained in that office.

I know most of us here, including those at the Clerk’s Table are employers. If, for example, you rear dairy cows or you have a shamba boy, you are an employer. You are always impressed by someone who reports to work early and ensures that they do their best.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, since I also want to listen to my colleagues, allow me to yield the Floor and request one of the youthful Gen Z of our time---

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, in the previous Parliament before you joined us--- You know you are the lawyer of the Government. When you were busy representing the Government and the President, I was a Gen Z then. Of late, we have a vibrant one here. I wish the guests of Sen. Okenyuri were still here to see her in action, but I know they are following because we are live on TikTok, X, YouTube, Facebook and even Snapchat.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I know that is unfamiliar to you, but I know you will catch up.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, allow me to welcome the distinguished Sen. Essy Okenyuri to come and second, so that you open the Floor for others. I will sit here and listen.

I beg to move.

Services, Senate.

I propose that we increase the stipend from Kshs15,000 to Kshs30,000 then Kshs50,000. If one is an intern within a city, they should get a stipend of Kshs50,000. For other small towns like Chepalungu, Mulot, Bomet, Kapsabet, Kabiyet, Kabasi--- Nakuru is a city. I do not know whether Kenol in Murang’a is a city, but we should increase the amount.

I know a number of us did it, but I do not know whether Sen. Karen Nyamu went for internship. Some of us are familiar with the challenges that most of these young people face. We must be careful, so that we protect and ensure---

My final remark to the young people is this. As we push for permanent and pensionable terms for those who undertake their internship in the public service and increase the stipend, we also want them to be disciplined and follow work ethics.

We are pushing for an increase of the stipend and their dignity, but we do not want to have situations where they report to work at 9.00 a.m. If work ethics require them to report at 8.00 a.m., they should be there by 7.30 a.m. Most of them do not have children. What excuse do they have not to report to work early and even leave late? This is my advice to them. If it reaches 5.00 p.m., ask your boss to give you a few assignments and make sure you finish them. You never know because you could be retained in that office.

I know most of us here, including those at the Clerk’s Table are employers. If, for example, you rear dairy cows or you have a shamba boy, you are an employer. You are always impressed by someone who reports to work early and ensures that they do their best.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, since I also want to listen to my colleagues, allow me to yield the Floor and request one of the youthful Gen Z of our time---

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, in the previous Parliament before you joined us--- You know you are the lawyer of the Government. When you were busy representing the Government and the President, I was a Gen Z then. Of late, we have a vibrant one here. I wish the guests of Sen. Okenyuri were still here to see her in action, but I know they are following because we are live on TikTok, X, YouTube, Facebook and even Snapchat.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I know that is unfamiliar to you, but I know you will catch up.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, allow me to welcome the distinguished Sen. Essy Okenyuri to come and second, so that you open the Floor for others. I will sit here and listen.

I beg to move.

Sen. Cherarkey, for your information, I am equally tech-savvy and I can get to almost all the platforms that you have mentioned. Therefore, I am not out, but inside the box.

Proceed, Sen. Essy.

Services, Senate.

On this issue of interns that he has been brought this afternoon, in this country, if you are a young person, you literally beg for everything. You beg for food, healthcare, education, upkeep and even little entertainment.

When you look at the prevailing conditions, young people are looking for somewhere to find shelter, but what is the situation in this country? For you to get internship in this country, it is actually modern-day slavery. The only difference is that you are not being forced, but you have to know someone who knows someone for you to get an internship, which you end up being paid Kshs15,000.

Sen. Cherarkey, who is the sponsor of this Motion, has suggested a stipend of Kshs30,000. I feel it should be Kshs50,000 because what is happening even after young people secure internships in particular organisations is that they equally experience Gender-Based Violence (GBV). We have people who want to reach out and request for certain extensions here and there. You will find young people falling for that because they are looking for money. Those are some of the real life challenges that we are talking about that young people in this country go through.

When young people fail to get somewhere to be, most of them end up in drug abuse and taking cheap alcohol because they cannot afford good entertainment joints to have something reasonable. We are now burying most of them. Whereas internship was meant to be a training ground for future Government employees, what do we have now?

I did my internship here in Nairobi City County at the Registry Office. Any time you go to an office, you see senior citizens who have been there for quite a long time. When they see an intern, the look that they give you does not motivate you to even want to volunteer in that organisation.

We need to change the perception of how we look at young people who volunteer their services as interns. It should not be a favour. Let organisations know that this should be mandatory in shaping skills of our future employees in different departments. What we have currently does not motivate most of them to want to transit to other organisations they would want to reach out to.

It must also be acknowledged that public service needs to lead by example. They are the ones to show how employees should be handled in different departments. Interns should not be handled differently from the way other employees are being handled. They should be given equally treatment like other employees because we are shaping their skills to be integrated in the jobs system in this country. That is the only way we can encourage most of them to share their skills.

For young people with good ideas, we need to protect or nurture them. You find young people with good ideas, but because they are interns, people take advantage and make money out of those good ideas. We should not watch as that happens.

Personally, I support this Motion largely because it paints the picture of an ordinary young person from a rural area who sometimes you cannot even locate the coordinates. Interns in rural localities should not be given the same stipend like those in urban areas. For example, interns in Nairobi are likely to experience a high cost of living compared to those in other localities. Therefore, there should be a standard way of determining the stipend that should be given to interns in a certain rural area as compared to those in a certain urban area.

Services, Senate.

It is unfortunate that young people are churned out of campus, technical institutions and colleges, but for them to undertake their internships, they still have to suffer and undergo the same frustrations they underwent to acquire basic education.

I would like to urge other Members of the Senate to support this Motion because interns need better treatment in this country. We do not want to have interns who commit suicide because of work conditions that are toxic or people who do not appreciate their contribution to service. This is the only way we can emancipate ourselves from what we are going through.

Finally, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, like I said, it should not be a favour by organisations. This needs to be altered to ensure that organisations in this country are forced to accommodate graduates who are coming out. How do you expect graduates who are coming out to acquire skills?

Had I not gotten this affirmative position as a Senator, not many Kenyans would have known my capacity or capability in representing young people, the women, and all other citizens of the country. It cannot happen if we do not give people a platform.

Interns need better management and remuneration, not even the Kshs30,000 that Sen. Cherarkey is suggesting here. Let it go to Kshs50,000, so that we attract young people to volunteer and serve this country with integrity, not people who will be learning shortcuts from the behaviors of the staff they meet in those organisations.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I do not wish to add more to whatever I have already said; however, let us not allow young people to beg while outside and still beg while serving as interns.

Thank you.

Services, Senate.

It is unfortunate that young people are churned out of campus, technical institutions and colleges, but for them to undertake their internships, they still have to suffer and undergo the same frustrations they underwent to acquire basic education.

I would like to urge other Members of the Senate to support this Motion because interns need better treatment in this country. We do not want to have interns who commit suicide because of work conditions that are toxic or people who do not appreciate their contribution to service. This is the only way we can emancipate ourselves from what we are going through.

Finally, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, like I said, it should not be a favour by organisations. This needs to be altered to ensure that organisations in this country are forced to accommodate graduates who are coming out. How do you expect graduates who are coming out to acquire skills?

Had I not gotten this affirmative position as a Senator, not many Kenyans would have known my capacity or capability in representing young people, the women, and all other citizens of the country. It cannot happen if we do not give people a platform.

Interns need better management and remuneration, not even the Kshs30,000 that Sen. Cherarkey is suggesting here. Let it go to Kshs50,000, so that we attract young people to volunteer and serve this country with integrity, not people who will be learning shortcuts from the behaviors of the staff they meet in those organisations.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I do not wish to add more to whatever I have already said; however, let us not allow young people to beg while outside and still beg while serving as interns.

Thank you.

Thank you, Sen. Essy. Now, Hon. Senators, I will propose the question;

Hon. Senators, this Motion is now available for debate; the Floor is open. I invite Sen. Karen Nyamu to make her contributions.

Services, Senate. come up with innovations that have made the workplace more efficient. We need a programme where we can recognise and reward such talent, because what they bring is fresh ideas and digital skills to the workplace.

We need to find a framework of how we can appreciate that, reward it and even absorb the outstanding ones into the job market. We have already said that this is not a favour that we are doing the interns; it is an investment of this country in our future because the youth are our greatest asset. When we empower them, we empower families and our communities.

Let this Senate be the voice of the young people of this country. Their voice for fairness and opportunity by supporting this Motion that supports their welfare and consequently, increase the stipend and also reward those outstanding interns with job opportunities.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

Services, Senate. come up with innovations that have made the workplace more efficient. We need a programme where we can recognise and reward such talent, because what they bring is fresh ideas and digital skills to the workplace.

We need to find a framework of how we can appreciate that, reward it and even absorb the outstanding ones into the job market. We have already said that this is not a favour that we are doing the interns; it is an investment of this country in our future because the youth are our greatest asset. When we empower them, we empower families and our communities.

Let this Senate be the voice of the young people of this country. Their voice for fairness and opportunity by supporting this Motion that supports their welfare and consequently, increase the stipend and also reward those outstanding interns with job opportunities.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

Sen. Eddy Oketch, proceed.

Services, Senate. Even in rural communities, for example, in Migori or Kisumu, the young people in these internship opportunities, travel from home to places of work. This means that if you are doing a regulation, you must make sure that amount caters for them to get to their place of work.

Secondly, they are human beings, they must eat. Your regulation cannot lack a consideration of whether this person will be able to survive during this one year, and whether, he will be able to eat something.

Thirdly, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, these young people cannot come to work naked. Will they be able to sustain their simple clothing?

Fourthly, they must have shelter. Nowadays, in the world where we live, where we have opportunistic diseases, a bare minimum element of basic need is also healthcare. So, there must be a matrix for which this investment must be done by the Government, that cannot keep on relying on a six-year regulation that was passed, by the relevant Ministry.

I therefore wish the Government the courage to look at this Motion practically as an issue of wholesome investment and development of a human being called the youth in this country. Otherwise, you are wasting your money and you are not giving these young people the best investment. If you are going to put Kshs15,000, so that it just becomes bora internship but not internship bora, then you have destroyed this young person.

I wish the Government the courage to look at all those indices that I have mentioned, from clothing to housing, to transport, to basic healthcare by the Social Health Authority (SHA). A young person should not struggle such that, just because they are going to internship that they are unable to pay for their SHA premiums. Those four indices, in our current economy, at a bare minimum, not even at a competitive level, should be Kshs60,000.

Why can we not give these interns Kshs60,000 and then be more adventurous on the placement angle, so that you give these interns a good experience and chance to do internship, but come up with a more elaborate way of making sure that they have good placement from which you are able to recover from?

I would like to encourage Sen. Cherarkey that we must end up rethinking this Motion from a framework perspective. Since we are a House of legislation, I wish the author of this Motion, Sen. Cherarkey, that, let us be bold and go ahead and put a framework based on the indices that I have mentioned. Let us put a framework to these indices and put a cost to it, so that the cost can take care of the money that we are talking about. From where I sit, it cannot be less than Kshs60,000.

I have seen some of these interns’ struggle. Even on the Statement that was brought by Sen. Sifuna about teachers, because we also have intern teachers also known as acting teachers, in this bracket, some, who are being paid by the School Boards of Management (BOM), and some also who are just acting maybe as headmasters or headmistresses, yet they do not get paid appropriately. If you look at the contribution that those teachers are making, it is ridiculous that they are not being compensated appropriately. They are treated as cheap labour, yet they have experience. That is almost a tantamount to slavery.

Services, Senate.

For instance, if somebody is working in Nyatike, a young person who has just left school, suffered in Chuka or Mount Kenya universities, acquired the necessary knowledge and has been placed in Nyatike Constituency, where the Teachers Service Commission (TSC) has proper regulations of what constitutes hardship allowances, and then they are regulated in a way that those hardship allowances are not taken care of or they keep on being manipulated, because they are regulated by the TSC.

Why can we not be bold in the Motion to just go ahead and do a legislative piece on it, and, for instance, say, “In Nyatike Constituency, because of this and this, we classify it as a hardship area”? In Kuria, where I come from, they face the same hardship. I have gone to some places, like where Sen. Okenyuri comes from in Kisii and it is the same story. Those teachers keep on suffering. We must look at this in a wholesome way to the extent--- I excuse myself to get some water, because this issue concerning the youth is in my heart. I might---

So, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I would like us to start thinking clearly about making this Motion more comprehensive. If you think about it, we must even look at the diversity of the programmes. For instance, currently, it is a linear model, where you go to internship for one year, get paid Kshs15,000, with no guaranteed placement, then you leave. When you leave, we do not know where you go. We wish you well. That cannot keep on happening. Why not have a diversity and inclusive programme, where it is a more circular kind of programme, where even the Government, in a place where they might not have enough work, that could increase the wage bill, since the Government cannot employ everyone. In this Motion, we can come up with proposals, looking at the private sector and come up with an arrangement with the private sector, so that interns who have gone through government programmes, can be taken in by the private sector, in an arrangement where the Government will give some stipend or salary to the private sector to take these youth in.

If there is a private sector where they are willing to spend Kshs30,000, what is the problem with the Government, repurposing some of the funds like the Hustler Fund, which is Kshs50 billion worth of money, to say, we shall give the Kshs50 billion to the private sector, for any private entity willing to employ the young people at Kshs60,000 or Kshs70,000, but then we will subsidise Kshs40,000. We will give you that money, and then you repurpose it for the young people, and take them in, even for five years. It is possible to look at diverse and inclusive programmes, not only on cost alone, but also on issues like gender and disability.

You can even reduce these repurposed programmes, and say, yes, you cannot take all interns, but at least, why not mainstream all the women interns into job opportunities? We understand that you cannot take all the interns into permanent and pensionable jobs, but at least, there is a regulation, where we have taken all young disabled members of the community, into these programmes, we must guarantee them permanent and pensionable programmes.

We must start from somewhere. That is all I am saying. We must have this diverse programme. It pains my heart when I think about Universal Healthcare (UHC) staff, who we have been constantly debating about, for the entire one year; about them being mainstreamed into the permanent and pensionable programme. Some of them are

Services, Senate. disabled members of the society, who have gone and done the hardest work of studying medicine, came out and had a degree in technical works in labs, nursing, handling patients in different capacities, and then, they are left without jobs.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, it is possible to come up with a framework that is diverse and that can ensure we give specific programmes that take in a swath of young people as interns. I also believe that there is a chance of doing targeted programmes that take the interns to places of authority in this country. For instance, KRA internships are done in such a way that, you go to KRA because you have studied financial understanding and tax laws. However, when you look at the promotions done there, they do not follow the order of experience. They follow the order of who you know, who is your grandparent or who are your parents.

In some programmes like in the ICT Authority and the Presidential Digital Talent Programme (PDTP), how do you explain to me without being an ageist or naive the kind of programmes where we are seeing people between 45 and 55 years old being given permanent jobs and promotions compared to the Gen Zs who have given us trouble in this digital era between the ages of 19 and 28? Who is more savvy if we were honestly speaking? It would be more practical that these young people are more savvy in these digital spaces and they have a better understanding of the digital economy. Their only problem is their age. They are being vilified for the age in some of these opportunities.

Therefore, there are opportunities for us to do targeted programmes. Where internships make sense for a certain age and experience, I would understand. For instance, accounting work might take longer for someone to master the programmes, but where age is inversely proportional to the experience one has like what I see the Gen Z doing online because they are more savvy and technical in the digital space, the ICT departments and programmes for regional economy, then they should not go for internship for 12 months.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, they should come from school, given equipment because they are tech savvy and get absorbed through a targeted programme, so that they can contribute to the economy. This is not an issue of cost, but an issue of output. The total productivity factor of our economy is enhanced by getting the best drivers on the best seats. I dare say that some of these opportunities we are seeing in the Government, the young people are the best drivers to those seats. I would want us to see those targeted programmes in this Motion we are working on today.

Lastly, there is the issue of information sharing and having a database we can share with young people more opportunities within and without the Government. We have not done well despite the fact that this programme has invested a lot on the intake of these internships and those who need to be skilled and re-skilled. There has not been a commensurate corporate kind of culture in the Government to make sure that there is proper information on where opportunities lie post-internship, both locally and internationally.

I believe the Government can do a better job in building a proper database and a resource centre for interns, so that in the 12 months you are in the Government in whichever department you are in, you interact with a lot of information in the private sector. The Kenya Private Sector Alliance (KEPSA) has this kind of database and other

Services, Senate. interactive opportunities, so that in the 12 months of internship the interns will be in the Government, they will get opportunities beyond where they will be. Some of them can expand to a diplomatic role they can play

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, there are companies that want to do research in Kenya today and in Africa as well. They are based in the Silicon Valley in the United States, but they cannot get competent interns. Why? They are in the Government and they are not interacting with information from the other side of the world. We need to be good at being savvy in developing proper resource and information centres and databases, so that when these young people work for the Government as interns, they interact and get jobs abroad.

I will stop there, but I encourage all of us that opportunities for young people cannot continue being a second thought. We are wasting an entire generation, an educated manpower and a very patriotic population that if well used, it can be the biggest contribution to wealth in this country. We have seen time without number that if they are not well utilized, they can also be a ticking timebomb.

We saw it last year; we are seeing it across the continent and even in Tanzania. Although in Tanzania, it is not about being a ticking time-bomb but they are dealing with dictatorial tendencies of some of our leaders we are seeing doing ridiculous stuff like forcing an election that is not there.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, let us invest in our young people and make sure that their talent and time is turned into treasure.

I thank you.

Services, Senate. interactive opportunities, so that in the 12 months of internship the interns will be in the Government, they will get opportunities beyond where they will be. Some of them can expand to a diplomatic role they can play

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, there are companies that want to do research in Kenya today and in Africa as well. They are based in the Silicon Valley in the United States, but they cannot get competent interns. Why? They are in the Government and they are not interacting with information from the other side of the world. We need to be good at being savvy in developing proper resource and information centres and databases, so that when these young people work for the Government as interns, they interact and get jobs abroad.

I will stop there, but I encourage all of us that opportunities for young people cannot continue being a second thought. We are wasting an entire generation, an educated manpower and a very patriotic population that if well used, it can be the biggest contribution to wealth in this country. We have seen time without number that if they are not well utilized, they can also be a ticking timebomb.

We saw it last year; we are seeing it across the continent and even in Tanzania. Although in Tanzania, it is not about being a ticking time-bomb but they are dealing with dictatorial tendencies of some of our leaders we are seeing doing ridiculous stuff like forcing an election that is not there.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, let us invest in our young people and make sure that their talent and time is turned into treasure.

I thank you.

Sen. Tabitha Mutinda.

Services, Senate.

Skills and knowledge are needed not forgetting experience which is paramount. Experience is basic and it helps our young people when they graduate and get into the workspace environment. As they do that, you will find that they have some experience.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, you will remember that during our time, they used to advertise job opportunities and they would ask for two, three or 10 years’ experience apart from the qualifications. The question has always been; where are the young people supposed to get this experience if we do not give them opportunity to be in these institutions to gain that experience?

Allow me to appreciate Parliament before I proceed. Parliament pays interns a stipend every month. They are even given lunch in Parliament. I say this because I have interacted with them in this House. I appreciate Parliament for offering internship and paying the interns.

I will go back to how interns are being treated. I sit in the Committee on Health and we normally visit the counties. During these visits to the hospitals, we meet different professionals ranging from pharmacists, clinical officers, nurses, laboratory technicians and all that range in the medical space. We usually get students in every department. I am happy because those stakeholders give our young people an opportunity to undertake an internship for experience purposes, which is excellent. It is good to motivate them.

Imagine what those interns think of when they see the challenges their senior colleagues go through. Let us think of what the Universal Health Coverage (UHC) workers have gone through. I am happy that the discussion about them is going on even today. The Cabinet Secretary, Ministry of Health, Hon. Duale, has ensured that this conversation comes to an end by adhering to the agreements and all that. However, what precedence is being set? These students undergo internship in the institutions and they see their senior colleagues not being paid yet that is where they hope to be employed. Some of them have been on contracts for so long.

The other day, we visited Machakos County and we came across Kenyans, most of them were women. They were complaining that they have not been paid for five months. I am happy because after our visit, they were paid their salary and five months arrears. I am also happy because we voiced out the issue and the matter has been addressed.

Can we put ourselves in the shoes of the interns who see these people working yet they are not being paid? In doing so, we demotivate them yet they are the ones who run up and down because they are considered to be very desperate. It is high time that the internship programme is well defined. We have to define it right from the education system and in the institutions where they do those internships.

If we encourage the young people, they will look forward to work somewhere. Most of them do their best to a point that one cannot tell that they are interns. They are usually very devoted. The best we can offer them is motivation as they offer their skills. If we do that, they will offer the knowledge that they have.

Sen. Crystal Asige sponsored a Bill titled the Start-up Bill (Senate Bills No.14 of 2022). That Bill targeted and discussed young people who should be encouraged to have their own start-ups. They should be more creative and productive in the market spaces. In their start-ups, they should not be asked to make a lot of payments at the initial stages. If

Services, Senate. that is done, we will definitely encourage the young people to become their own Chief Executive Officers (CEOs). We should encourage them to be employers of the other youths.

I am happy that the Kenya Kwanza Government, where I serve, has prioritised digital infrastructure. We have Information and Communication Technology (ICT) hubs in each constituency and Members of Parliament whose constituencies do not have the hubs should know that they are being worked on. The goal is to ensure that digital infrastructure in this country is enhanced.

We are in the year 2025 and everything is digital. We encourage our youth to do e-marketing. That is what is happening. Previously, one needed to pay an influencer to market for them, but we do not need that anymore. All that one needs right now is to be themselves, get bundles and a gadget that has a good camera. That is it. With that, they will be in the market space. They can advertise their products and sell. However, they need experience.

Internship is important for our young people though they should not hold on to them. The main agenda of internship is to help the young people acquire knowledge that is needed. It is actually a bridge to employment. It ensures that the company does not look for new employees because the interns have already gained the required skill and knowledge.

Companies can offer an opportunity to the interns who have performed very well and have them continue serving in their departments. That helps to cut cost because those companies or organisations do not have to get someone else, train them and take them through what needs to be done because they have already given the opportunity to the interns. That is easier than doing the whole recruitment processes. It gives the interns a stepping stone and companies do not need to start from square one.

Equity is an important issue and there should be equal internship opportunities across the 47 counties. That is important for our young people. There should be fairness. Our counties should offer internship. It is rare to find an intern at the counties apart from the example that I gave. Hospitals offer internships because those professionals’ schools and learning calendar requires them to undertake internship. What about the other county departments? We need to have equity for both young men and women in different counties for them to learn.

The Public and Private Partnerships (PPPs) should be encouraged because they open job opportunities for our people. They will also ensure that internship opportunities are offered to our young people. We have heard cases where PPPs have been thrown away not knowing that those PPPs increase the asset value in this country and also offer job opportunities for our young people.

I want us to look at the National Youth Opportunities Towards Advancement (NYOTA) programme that the President launched in all the wards in this country. In that programme, 70 young people from each ward will get a grant amounting to Kshs50,000. I wish I got that when I was a youth. During my time, we did not get such kinds of grants but they are there today.

I am happy the Ministry in charge has offered training to our young people in order for them to have their own start-ups. That has been achieved in this Government.

Services, Senate. We now have young people being given a grant of Kshs50,000 which is not a loan. We even had the Hustler Fund which gave Kenyans an opportunity to access some little capital to generate income in their little economic platforms.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, when we quantify the knowledge during this internship process in terms of value, by 2030, we will be talking about over Kshs10 trillion in this country, if we empower and offer internships and job opportunities for our young people.

I was just talking to Sen. Essy, who seconded this particular Motion and you know how passionate she has been in terms of matters education. We had a small discussion of the examiners. During the examination process, like it is happening right now, they are given small stipends of about Kshs400. That person has to get transport to move from point A to point B, where they have been assigned. That is a cost that has been incurred. What are they left with? However, the examiners who are marking these exams are in the most comfortable places compared to the people who did the dirty work. We would not be here today in this House, or both Houses, without the basic education that these teachers gave us. Our teachers played a very key role and education has no end. We need to appreciate that our curriculum has room for internship and internship has to be offered in the highest standard that needs to be offered.

I want to agree with Sen. Eddy when he says it is high time we invested and have budgets for establishing a centre of internship whereby different skills can be acquired for our young people. They do not all have to fit within the Government institutions or in the private sector. There can be a centre that awards them and gives them a certification after an internship has been completed to the standard that is required. As I said earlier, we are in 2025. It requires today that people reskill or up their skills. That can only be done through these processes of internship.

When we were doing the county visits, one of the concerns that we had was about the promotion timelines. We found Kenyans who are working in the medical industry - to be more specific because that is where we have done oversight - someone has worked for over 15 years with no single promotion. Someone comes and just two years down the line, in the third year, this person is promoted. Who has more experience; five years versus three years? How then do we encourage our people who have got maximum experience to continue offering the same internship to these young people if these are the same young people who come, get the skill and the people who have worked for the longest are not even getting motivated? There should be balance.

When they are promoted on time with the kind of experience and skills that they have, then it becomes easier for them to trickle that knowledge and skills to our young people. It is high time that the people who have worked the longest got the fair promotion that they deserve.

I really support this Motion and ask colleagues to support it too because we have for the longest period said that the future is for the young people. That can only be actualised and factual if we support this Motion and ensure there will be adequate opportunity for skills development for our young people.

With those few remarks, I support.

Services, Senate.

Services, Senate.

Sen. Osotsi, you were on the platform, but you just disappeared from my screen. However, there is a problem with the system. So, I will allow you, Sen. Osotsi, to make your contribution to this Motion.

Services, Senate.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we need more investment around the youth problem, we need more targeted programmes to address the youth issues, one of it being employment. Even in this internship programme, I wonder why these youth cannot be absorbed? After one year, they need to be employed.

I was looking at statistics on how many Kenyans retire every year from public service. They are close to 20,000. This year, they are going to engage 7,000 interns. It is just a fraction of 20,000. Why can we not have a policy where all the youth who go through the internship programme and complete it successfully are absorbed in the public service rather than sending them back to tarmac? That is even creating more challenges than creating benefits for the youth.

So, one of the things that this Motion should propose is that all the youth who complete the internship programme should be absorbed in the public service. I wonder why that is a challenge? We have enough institutions in government to ensure that this program runs well.

We have the National Employment Authority (NEA), which is under the Ministry of Labour and Social Service. What does this Authority do? They are supposed to create some linkages with the Public Service Commission, so that these youth are seamlessly transitioned to employment. One of the things that this Authority does is to look for employment opportunities, so that after that one year, there are opportunities that have been linked and these youth can continue serving either in the public service or even in the private service.

We have a skills inventory, which is a department in the Ministry of Labour and Social Welfare called the National Skills Inventory (NSI). They need to keep details about these youth who are in the internship programme, so that within that one year, they should be working on a programme on how these youth will be absorbed into full-time employment.

So, clearly, these challenges we are discussing here tell us one thing. There is a lack of proper coordination in the public service, between the Public Service Commission, the ministry in charge of public service, the Ministry of Labour and generally with all the other ministries. If there was some good synergy, then we would not be sending our youth to oblivion after one year of serving the country.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I am aware some of these youths have come up with very serious innovations, especially those who work in technical areas like ICT and engineering, but who takes credit for that innovation? How are they patented? That is an issue that this programme should also address.

Going back to the youth challenge, the other day I was traveling somewhere in the Middle East, one of the small airports in the Middle East, not Dubai, Sharjah. I saw hundreds of young Kenyans sleeping on the floor in the airport. They cannot even afford a cup of tea. Some of them are traveling to various countries in the Middle East, and some of them are returning home. That shows how we have mistreated our youth. Something has to be done about this.

We talk about seeking employment for our youth overseas, but I can tell you most of these programs of trying to help our youth to get jobs abroad are a scam. The youth

Services, Senate. have come back; they have complained, others have spent money, but they have gotten a raw deal. Why can we not create opportunities for our youth?

When we talk about our counties, most of the technical institutions in the counties are dead. Why? They are having challenges with capitation, they are having challenges with the payment of salaries to tutors, and this is something that this House must take very seriously.

I remember the other day when we were talking about the new formula, we said we wanted to support small counties like mine in Vihiga to get more money, and we were saying we need to give them more money. I think we fought so hard with Sen. Omogeni. We want to give them more money so that they can invest in building good classrooms for ECDE, they can put more money in TVETs, they can put more money in health, and we fought so hard.

In most of our counties, governors have diverted that money to pay pending bills. It is sad. Why should we fight for more money to come to our counties and then that money is diverted to the wrong causes? We expected that now that that was an affirmative action, the money would be taken to those deserving functions within our county.

The TVETs were set up, so that the youth who cannot go to university and to college can go there and get basic skills in plumbing, masonry ad carpentry, but those centers are dying because of low competition or because of mismanagement.

When you go to the villages, everywhere you go, you meet a group of young people idling around. They cannot do anything; they are sitting there in marketplaces and bus stops. They cannot do anything; all they can do is maybe engage in drug abuse and crime. We are creating a time bomb for this country.

Another thing that I want to put across is that we must not lie to our youth. When we promise our youth that we will do this and this, let us deliver. Many of the things that we promised our youth in this country during the election have not been done. I want anyone to challenge me on that. They have not been done.

I can see Sen. Tobiko looking at me, looking like she wants to challenge that, but I tell you, that is a fact. Our universities are dying. If we have our institutions of learning dying, the problem is going to be even 100 times worse. Our colleges are dying. Even our schools are dying because of this thing of capitation.

We promise these youth that we will give them jobs. We promise them that we will give them bundles. We promise them that they will be absorbed in key institutions of Government. It is now three years and nothing or very little has been done. Then, when they go on the streets, we follow them to the streets arrest and kill them. We do many things.

That is why, even as we are mourning the death of my party leader, the late Rt. Hon. Raila Amolo Odinga, I want to say, without fear of contradiction, that the best legacy we can give Hon. Raila Amolo Odinga is to implement his wish, and his last wish is expressed in the 10 point agenda.

Let us not forget that. The 10 point agenda includes the stoppage of abductions, compensation for the youth who died during the maandamano and the release of those still in prison. We cannot continue to praise Raila Odinga for his contributions to this

Services, Senate. country while our youth remain imprisoned. Our youth are rotting in prison. I had expected that, as a gift to Raila Odinga, all the youth imprisoned as a result of the maandamano would have been released before his burial.

The best gift we can give Raila Amolo Odinga is to implement the 10 point agenda with commitment. One of the agenda items addresses the welfare of the youth: youth employment and youth rights are central issues. If we act on this, I am confident we can address the youth crisis that threatens to swallow us all. The youth will not care whether one is in the opposition or in Government. We will all be affected because, as leaders, we have failed to prepare for the next generation.

As I support this Motion, I want to emphasise that this internship programme was the first baby step toward integrating our youth into the workforce. However, four years after its inception, we must elevate it, make it more purposeful, ensure it delivers tangible outcomes and increase the stipend provided. In fact, we should not even call it a stipend. It is only Kshs25, 000.

If you examine the budgets in some offices, the allocation for tea alone will shock you. In the Cabinet Secretary’s office, the tea budget can reach Kshs200,000 a day. How many interns could be employed with that money? We need to refocus our priorities to build a better Kenya.

I recall, a few years ago and I know some companies still do this, we had management trainee programmes. I am a product of such a programme. After university, I joined a two-year management trainee programme. It was not just training. We worked, earned salaries, received allowances and were placed on the management scale. After two years, we transitioned into senior management positions. During that time, we could even access loans. I remember buying my first car while I was a management trainee in one of the blue-chip companies that I do not want to mention.

Services, Senate. country while our youth remain imprisoned. Our youth are rotting in prison. I had expected that, as a gift to Raila Odinga, all the youth imprisoned as a result of the maandamano would have been released before his burial.

The best gift we can give Raila Amolo Odinga is to implement the 10 point agenda with commitment. One of the agenda items addresses the welfare of the youth: youth employment and youth rights are central issues. If we act on this, I am confident we can address the youth crisis that threatens to swallow us all. The youth will not care whether one is in the opposition or in Government. We will all be affected because, as leaders, we have failed to prepare for the next generation.

As I support this Motion, I want to emphasise that this internship programme was the first baby step toward integrating our youth into the workforce. However, four years after its inception, we must elevate it, make it more purposeful, ensure it delivers tangible outcomes and increase the stipend provided. In fact, we should not even call it a stipend. It is only Kshs25, 000.

If you examine the budgets in some offices, the allocation for tea alone will shock you. In the Cabinet Secretary’s office, the tea budget can reach Kshs200,000 a day. How many interns could be employed with that money? We need to refocus our priorities to build a better Kenya.

I recall, a few years ago and I know some companies still do this, we had management trainee programmes. I am a product of such a programme. After university, I joined a two-year management trainee programme. It was not just training. We worked, earned salaries, received allowances and were placed on the management scale. After two years, we transitioned into senior management positions. During that time, we could even access loans. I remember buying my first car while I was a management trainee in one of the blue-chip companies that I do not want to mention.

Order, Hon. Senators. Order,

Services, Senate.

Services, Senate.

Thank you, Sen. Osotsi. Hon. Senators, we still have got a long queue. I believe Members would wish to speak to this Motion. I will invite Sen. Peris Tobiko.

I said that to warn you of the time, as well as unnecessary interruptions to Members when they are on the Floor. Hon. Members, let us allow Members to make their contributions in silence.

Services, Senate. was an intern in Parliament, the internship is over, please get me a place.” So, the problem is brought back to the leadership. I would say these young people have contributed well to the economy. Potential employers have got people to work for them and even to improve productivity. Why should they go back home?

In my opinion, these people should be absorbed by the various government institutions; our county governments, the national government and private institutions. This is a collective problem for the nation and we must all address it in one way or another. One of the most important ways is that they get absorbed by the various institutions because letting them go back home does not solve the problem.

Many of these young people are also very innovative and if they were supported with capital after the internship, they would mirror what they were learning in the various institutions that employed them and may want to start their own businesses. They may want to start their own organisations. Therefore, there should also be capital that then can be used to support those who will want to go into private businesses. We have always talked about the digital market. Many of our people are comfortable with this. Many of them are very conversant with digitization and online jobs. Therefore, by supporting them, then we will not be losing these children back to homes where they would get discouraged and depressed. Some even lose hope. This programme was meant to bring hope and the hope must not die.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, therefore, I support that we enhance this programme instead of letting these students go back home. In the interest of time, for those one or two other Senators who may want to contribute before time is over, let me yield see the floor.

Thank you.

Services, Senate. was an intern in Parliament, the internship is over, please get me a place.” So, the problem is brought back to the leadership. I would say these young people have contributed well to the economy. Potential employers have got people to work for them and even to improve productivity. Why should they go back home?

In my opinion, these people should be absorbed by the various government institutions; our county governments, the national government and private institutions. This is a collective problem for the nation and we must all address it in one way or another. One of the most important ways is that they get absorbed by the various institutions because letting them go back home does not solve the problem.

Many of these young people are also very innovative and if they were supported with capital after the internship, they would mirror what they were learning in the various institutions that employed them and may want to start their own businesses. They may want to start their own organisations. Therefore, there should also be capital that then can be used to support those who will want to go into private businesses. We have always talked about the digital market. Many of our people are comfortable with this. Many of them are very conversant with digitization and online jobs. Therefore, by supporting them, then we will not be losing these children back to homes where they would get discouraged and depressed. Some even lose hope. This programme was meant to bring hope and the hope must not die.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, therefore, I support that we enhance this programme instead of letting these students go back home. In the interest of time, for those one or two other Senators who may want to contribute before time is over, let me yield see the floor.

Thank you.

Thank you, Sen. Tobiko. Proceed, Sen. Hamida Kibwana.

Services, Senate. Hospital and I found the young doctors working for over 12 hours, around 18 hours. You could see the fatigue on their faces. Nurses are also exploited, especially, those who are interns. You find one nurse with about 40 or 50 patients; and that is an intern.

The Government is also giving the young people limited opportunities. When I talk about limited opportunities, you may find that they always insist on the Master’s Degree in some organisations and therefore, you deny others a chance. Only eligible Master’s Degree holders are the only ones who can apply. At times I look at it and ask, is there equity and fairness or do we have discrimination concerning the young ones?

I was looking at the court's ruling the other time and the court found unfairness. The court, of course, found that there was unfairness, but dismissed them on legal grounds, which was really unfair. Then I asked myself, does employment really follow merit? There is always non-discrimination and equal opportunities to many. However, do we have equity because you may find that maybe the guys from rural areas are regarded as Ushago people. They are not given that equal access and are placed in less desirable roles. Persons with Disabilities (PwDs) and women, at times, are not given a chance. These young people should be taken care of. I remember and I was reading somewhere that imagine Baba, during the Gen Z mandamano, do you know he used to also send them water? This is because he said, look, these are young people, as much as they may think that when, you know, there were as much as they were going out to demonstrate, some of them thought that because they do not have--- oh, sorry, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

Services, Senate. Hospital and I found the young doctors working for over 12 hours, around 18 hours. You could see the fatigue on their faces. Nurses are also exploited, especially, those who are interns. You find one nurse with about 40 or 50 patients; and that is an intern.

The Government is also giving the young people limited opportunities. When I talk about limited opportunities, you may find that they always insist on the Master’s Degree in some organisations and therefore, you deny others a chance. Only eligible Master’s Degree holders are the only ones who can apply. At times I look at it and ask, is there equity and fairness or do we have discrimination concerning the young ones?

I was looking at the court's ruling the other time and the court found unfairness. The court, of course, found that there was unfairness, but dismissed them on legal grounds, which was really unfair. Then I asked myself, does employment really follow merit? There is always non-discrimination and equal opportunities to many. However, do we have equity because you may find that maybe the guys from rural areas are regarded as Ushago people. They are not given that equal access and are placed in less desirable roles. Persons with Disabilities (PwDs) and women, at times, are not given a chance. These young people should be taken care of. I remember and I was reading somewhere that imagine Baba, during the Gen Z mandamano, do you know he used to also send them water? This is because he said, look, these are young people, as much as they may think that when, you know, there were as much as they were going out to demonstrate, some of them thought that because they do not have--- oh, sorry, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

Sen. Hamida, I would like to read to you Standing Order No.92. If you start debating in Kiswahili, you should continue in Kiswahili.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I apologise.

Please.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, sometimes we find ourselves having demonstrations. Baba used to send them water, but I am wondering about the Hustler Fund. It is supposed to support the young people, but it is unfortunate--- I can see Sen. Methu looking at me and I know he also wants to contribute.

The last issue is gender sensitivity. Deployment should be considered in support of gender and monitoring of employment should also be done. We need to monitor deployment of interns.

There are also issues of pathways and distance to work. An internship should not just come to an end, but also lead to somewhere meaningful. The Government should have an exit plan for the young people. Like Sen. Tobiko said, we need to have at least an exit plan for the young people. Definitely, young professionals will be discouraged if we do not have that.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for the sake of time, let me stop there. I think we have some few more minutes for my colleagues.

I thank you.

Services, Senate.

Services, Senate.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I would like to congratulate Sen. Cherarkey for this brilliant Motion. As a young person, it is sad that the plight of young people is always a priority for most politicians and Government officials only when we are campaigning. It is easy to sensationalise.

If you allow me to quote, we always say; ni wakati wa vijana. Those are some of the things we keep on saying during campaigns. However, once we get into the government, it becomes difficult to actualise most of the things that we promise the young people.

Like many of my colleagues have said, I would like to express my disappointment because as we talk about how to help the young people, for those who are going to school, it is a sad situation that as a country, everything is moving on like it is just normal for lecturers to be at home for the past two months. We are about to get to November then December during which examinations are done yet learning has not started. Nothing has happened, leave alone even introduction to basic units.

I am a first year student at the University of Nairobi (UoN) , but I have never seen my lecturers. I do not even know my colleagues in class because we have never converged. We have not even had orientation for first years because lecturers are at home but nobody is talking about it. It appears to be just normal. People are back to being on rooftops sensationalising issues and saying tutatenga ama tutafanya, but nothing is happening.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I am happy about this particular Motion and the proposals that have been mentioned. Since time is not with us, this is what I would like to say. The last time a review of the stipend was done was in 2019. We are now in 2025 and those are six years later. So much has happened and the economic situation now is not the same as it was then. For people who were earning Kshs10,000 or Kshs15,000 at that time perhaps are earning Kshs30,000. Even what parliamentarians were earning in 2019 is not the same as what we are earning now. Why is it difficult for us to wear the shoes of interns; people who are suffering?

We are told that 20 per cent of graduates are absorbed into the public service. Do you know that bulk of the work in the public service is done by interns? When intern doctors went on strike, almost everything in the health sector collapsed because most services in the public services are rendered by interns. Why can we not be humane and think about them---

Sen. Methu, you will conclude your debate on this Motion when it resumes. You have got a balance of 12 minutes.

Hon. Senators, it is now 6.30 p.m., time to adjourn the Senate. The Senate, therefore, stands adjourned until Tuesday, 4th November, 2025, at 2.30 p.m.

The Senate rose at 6.30 p.m.

Services, Senate.

Services, Senate.