July 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Thursday, 30th July, 2015

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to lay the following paper on the Table of the Senate today, Thursday, 30th July, 2015.

Report of the Mediation Committee on the Fertiliser and Animal Foodstuffs (Amendment) Bill 2013.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to give notice of the following Motion. THAT, this House adopts the Report on the assessment of security situation in Mandera County, Laikipia County, Kapedo border town of Turkana

July 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Thank you Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to give notice of the following Motion:-

THAT, the Senate approves the Cash Disbursement Schedule to County Governments for 2015/2016 Financial Year laid on the Table of the Senate on Thursday, 30th July, 2015, pursuant to Section 17 of the Public Finance Management Act, 2012.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to give notice of the following Motion. THAT, the House approves the report of the mediation committee on the Fertiliser and Animal Foodstuffs (Amendment) Bill (National Assembly Bill No.36 of 2013) laid on the Table of the Senate on Thursday, 30th July, 2015.

Order, hon. Members. Before we proceed to that particular Order, I have a communication to make on two Commonwealth Parliamentary Associations (African Region) conferences to be held in Nairobi this August.

Hon. Senators, I wish to notify all Senators that this August, our Parliament (both Houses) will have the honour of hosting two very important international conferences under the auspices of the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association (CPA) African Region.

The main event, namely, the 46th CPA African Region Conference is scheduled to take place from 9th to 15th August, 2015. It will be preceded by the 6th Commonwealth Women Parliamentarians (CWP) Conference which will take place from 6th to 9th August,

July 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Hon. Members, today, we have a lot of business. We need to operate more efficiently than before.

Sen. Chelule is not here. Senate Majority Leader, do you have the weekly statement?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise on Standing Order No.45 to issue a statement of the Majority Leader under this Order.

As you may be aware, as per the Senate Calendar which was adopted on 28th February, 2015, the Senate proceeds to the August recess today for a period of one-and- half months to resume on 15th September, 2015.

Pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order No.45, I hereby present the Senate business for the first week after recess.

July 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

July 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Order, Senators! The Senate Majority Leader deserves some appreciation. He has appreciated you. You must also return the compliment to him.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.45 (2) (b) to request for a statement from the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Labour and Social Welfare on access to finances by the youth, women and persons with disabilities to execute tenders won through 30 per cent access to Government procurement.

In the statement, the Chairperson should explain the following:-

Proceed, Chairperson. Where is Sen. Madzayo?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, we are aware of these challenges that are faced by the youth. We shall be in a position to respond to that question when we come back from recess. I believe in the mid of September.

Order, Chairperson! We know our calendar and the days therein. So, which one?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the first Tuesday after we come back from recess.

The statement will be issued on 15th September,

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I just wanted to respond. It is okay with me.

Order, Sen. Chelule! Just because you have sought a statement, that does not give you a field day. You still need to request for permission to speak. We have a number of statements to be responded to. Where is the Chairperson or

July 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am aware that this statement is not yet ready. However, the Chairperson will advise further as he walks in.

As the Chairperson is being briefed, proceed, Sen. Haji. However, I do not see the Senator who sought the statement.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have two statements to issue. However, the Senators who requested for them are not here. One was requested by Sen. Musila and the other one by Sen. Munyes. Therefore, I do not know whether I should issue them now or we wait until after recess.

Let us wait till then since we have time constraint. Proceed, Chairperson of the County Public Accounts and Investments. I am sure that you have been briefed.

yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I had an opportunity on Tuesday to address this issue. Thank God you were in the Chair that day. I confirmed that we shall be ready in a week’s time from Tuesday.

Order! I am glad that you invoked the name of God in thanking me for being present then and now. You said that you will be ready in one week’s time. However, with a bit of pressing, you also said that you would attempt to see if you can respond today. So, you need to give an explanation why you are unable. It is not just about saying that you said in one week’s time. You said that much, but there was much more you said.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am reminded. I am not able to make any interim report on it. We have been busy the whole of this week with a matter concerning Homa Bay County. So, there was no room in which we could bring in any other witnesses in respect of what we were inquiring from the Ministry. I, therefore, seek for your indulgence. We are proud that we have now finished with Homa Bay, both the Executive and the County Assembly.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, since the Chairperson is unable to give the answer within the time we had agreed, I will be patient until we come back from recess. I suggest the first Tuesday, if possible.

It helps to be accurate and truthful. What is it, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale?

July 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Mr. Speaker, Sir, allow me to thank Sen. Ntutu for his indulgence. I wish to confirm that this is not because of any reason connected to the fact that he is my brother-in-law. However, I thank him all the same.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am ready with the statement in respect of the seizure of Kenyan ivory hidden in tea leaves by Thailand Customs officials. This statement was sought by Sen. (Prof.) Lesan. I had undertaken to issue it.

By when?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, It was supposed to be issued on Tuesday. However, we were not in a position to do so then.

Proceed, Chairperson.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the statement is a bit lengthy because Sen. (Prof.) Lesan had sought a lot of details. He wanted to know:

July 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

July 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is in contravention of the Crops Act 2013 and the Tea

Regulations of 2008 that prohibit transfer of registration certificate to a third party as well as the East African Tea Traders Association

(EATTA)

Trading Rules. The circumstances under which the tea consignment was found in Thailand on 28th, April 2015, yet it was destined for the United Arabs Emirates, are currently under police investigations. The Agriculture, Fisheries and Food Authority, Tea Directorate collected levy on this consignment since the tea was brought from the auction and all the relevant export documentation lodged were valid.

July 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is in contravention of the Crops Act 2013 and the Tea

Regulations of 2008 that prohibit transfer of registration certificate to a third party as well as the East African Tea Traders Association

(EATTA)

Trading Rules. The circumstances under which the tea consignment was found in Thailand on 28th, April 2015, yet it was destined for the United Arabs Emirates, are currently under police investigations. The Agriculture, Fisheries and Food Authority, Tea Directorate collected levy on this consignment since the tea was brought from the auction and all the relevant export documentation lodged were valid.

July 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Order, Sen. (Prof.) Lesan. Seek clarification, do not make Statements.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I wish to seek clarification as to what is done to the goods once they have been bought from the auction before they are exported and what is their security? When the material is exported, it is held in bonded warehouses. I want to know whether even the exported material can be held in bonded warehouses before they are exported to close this little loophole that has allowed the ivory to come in.

Thirdly, I want to seek a clarification on the action that has been taken against the KRA officers that were handling this commodity because their negligence resulted in the export of contraband material.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I come from the County of Mombasa. What concerns me most is the fact that the Port of Mombasa has become a major transit point for most illicit trade, from ivory and drugs in all the United Nations (UN) reports and other reports of multinational organizations. What measures are being taken to strengthen

July 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

July 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Mr. Speaker, Sir, if there is the one thing that the Government fumbles on is when it is investigating the smuggling of ivory at the Port of Mombasa. The Chairman of the Committee on Agriculture, Livestock and Fisheries needs to pay attention. Could he explain the specific actions being taken against the directors? It is not about suspension or revoking of licences. That is not a punishment. What action has been taken against the tea suppliers and exporters who were involved in the export of these contraband goods disguised as Kenyan tea? What specific action has been taken against the directors and owners of those companies?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, regarding the issue of Potential Quality Services that was involved, it was not licenced to deal with tea. Therefore, the Ministry concerned has no authority over it. As I have said, investigations are going on and prosecutions will be carried out on the culprits, whether they are companies, individuals or Government officials, if they are found culpable. The response about the investigations came back and as rightly put by Sen. (Prof.) Lesan, some action has already been reported to have taken place. Investigations are going on and action will be taken against the directors found to be culpable.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Chairman must desist from deceiving this House. If a company has been found culpable and their licence is revoked, how is it that the directors of those companies can be above suspicion and they have not been arrested by now? How do you revoke a licence if the company is not an entity on paper? Does the company not involve people?

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I am a bit concerned by what the Chairman has said that the Cabinet Secretary of Agriculture, Livestock and Fisheries has nothing to do with this particular company called Potential Quality Services. If you look at the investigations that have gone on, it is this company that has caused all these problems. To say that the Cabinet Secretary for the Ministry concerned has no control over it- this is a Kenyan company - and I am sure that somebody will deal with it. I am sure that any institution of Government will deal with it. He should give us information without passing the buck.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have said that in as far as licensing is concerned; this company has not been licensed by the Ministry for Agriculture, Livestock

July 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

July 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Mr. Speaker, Sir, you just heard the Chairperson say that “if need be, we can bring the report?” That is precisely what this House is asking for, the report. Therefore, if there are investigations that are going on, then there must be some timelines as to when they will be complete and a report produced. Could he tell us exactly when he will table the report and not if need be? We need the report.

Order, Sen. Khaniri. Please proceed, Chairman.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have said that the report is complete. What is remaining as at the time the report was prepared was the investigation. The report was required urgently and I had to submit it. Therefore, the report is complete.

Order, Senators. The Chairperson is crystal clear. He has responded to the Statement that was sought. What you are asking and he agrees to, is that his response talks about investigations whose findings are not yet known. So, you are saying that he should now bring the report of the investigations. I think that is what he has just done.

Chairperson, you are ordered to bring the report because you must do a complete job. How long does it take to complete investigations? We cannot keep waiting forever. That is what the House is telling you. Therefore, let us get the report on Thursday of the first week we resume after recess.

That is the end of Statement Hour. Let us move to the next Order. I hope that we all now have copies of the Supplementary Order Paper.

What is it Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr.?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, there is a Paper that you have allowed our Committee to table. Can I proceed?

Please, proceed, Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr.

July 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

July 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Sen. Ndiema, do you also have a Paper to lay on the Table?

Sen. Ndiema, do you also have a Paper to lay on the Table?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to lay the following Papers on the Table of the House:-

A Report on the Food Security Bill, 2014.

July 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

July 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I know that Sen. Hassan is just provoking me to speak because he knows that we are good friends. In terms of good manners and traditions, whenever I enter the Mombasa airspace, I always let him know that I am within his territory.

Order, Sen. Murungi. I thought that mobile phones are normally off in the plane.

After takeoff, you can make your calls.

After takeoff, you can make your calls.

Order, Sen. Hassan. This is not a matter we should be debating. That matter is concluded. Let us proceed to the next Order.

Please look at your Supplementary Order Paper. We need to vote on Order Nos.8, 9 and 10. However, we do not have the numbers yet. Therefore, as the Whips are whipping Members, we would like to proceed with Order No. 11. As soon as we get the numbers, we will proceed with the voting. Of course, Order Nos.8, 9, 10 and 12 fall in the same category, if Order No.11 has been exhausted. After Order No.11, we will move to Order No.16. So, be advised.

Let us move to Order No.11.

Hon. Members, I encourage that you remain in the House, including the Judge and good neighbour of Sen. Hassan.

July 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

An

July 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

An

The Senate Majority Leader is going to Whip. They have exchanged the roles with the Whip for today.

The Senate Majority Leader is going to Whip. They have exchanged the roles with the Whip for today.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to support this Bill. Community land is what was previously known as trust land. As you are aware, this has been a source of contentious issues, especially in areas like the coastal region, Masai Mara and other communities where the boundaries of ancestral land that was then referred to as trust land or used for other purposes like tourism, has been a real source of contention.

If you go through this Bill, it makes a lot of provisions that will help in the administration of what is known as community land. It actually even restricts those who formerly gave themselves the responsibility of administering these kinds of lands; the so- called council of elders and such like people. They are no longer going to have the opportunity to unilaterally make decisions that affect an entire community.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, this Bill even has provision that can actually transfer land back to the community that is already owned by individuals. According to me, the few provisions that I have noted in this Bill are quite exciting considering the issues of land, that have affected the people living along the Coast, where you find indigenous people living as squatters, generation after generation. With this Bill, certain provisions can be used to actually transfer this land owned by individuals along the Coast – those who own thousands upon thousands of acres as one family or individual. Through this Bill such land can be transferred back to the community and by extension, allow indigenous community members to own land and not be squatters in their own home.

I beg to support.

Please, proceed; Sen. Ndiema.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I rise to support this Bill. Ownership of land in trust has for a long time remained unregulated and unregistered, thus causing confusion and at times conflict within members, residents and neighbouring

July 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

July 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

July 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

July 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Mr. Speaker, Sir, does that apply to me too? I thought you would give me an exception.

I will not give you an exception because it happened while you were on your feet. Okay, I will give you the five minutes. For the rest, take it as notice.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is a very important Bill. I am surprised that we have waited for so long to debate it and the deadline is coming up soon. For the Senators of Kwale, Kilifi, Tana River, Lamu and Taita Taveta counties, look at the Third Schedule very carefully because it converts all public land in those areas into community land. The category goes on including continental shelf, all rivers, and lakes and so on.

It is now our opportunity to reclaim our rivers, lakes and land that had been acquired unlawfully particularly in Mombasa, Kilifi and Taita-Taveta counties. This land will now be converted to public land and the people of Taita-Taveta County will stop living amongst sisal plantations and now live on land that they are entitled to.

I have read the Bill extensively and I agree with Sen. Ndiema about conversion of this land and the role of county governments on community land. We have no objection

July 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

July 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

July 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

July 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I also rise to support the Bill with one or two provisos. Land must in future be seen as a means to an end and not an end in itself. There is a tendency for us to say that we have got community land, we hold it; we get the tile and it just sits there. The most important thing is the implementation part of this Bill. That is to say; what are we going to do with this community land?

The Bill proposes, for instance, that waterways and so on are made community land and I support it completely. I support, for example, the acquisition of all riparian land to be owned collectively by the community, but having riparian land as an end in

July 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

July 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am requesting---

You are requesting who? Because this screen has been very clear, and it is only now that you are attempting to indicate that interest. I am afraid it is coming too late. The debate has been closed.

Proceed, Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki!

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise under Standing Order No.54 (3) requesting that you defer the putting of the Question. Considering that we are going on recess under that Standing Order, I do not know if we start the Motion of voting and we do not have the numbers what the implications are. I need your guidance. Maybe you could order the Bell to be rung and then we see whether we have the numbers before the Question is put.

We will make an attempt and before I put the Question, you will give an indication to me whether we have the numbers or not.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. In view of the fact that we are not voting on this, can I appeal to you to allow me to say only ten words on this Bill?

I am really sympathetic Sen. Haji, but my hands are tied. Maybe if I had acknowledged you before the Mover replied, I would have easily

July 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

July 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Could the Division Bell be rung for another two minutes?

Order, Senators! The Chair is encouraged by the numbers and the work of the Whips. However, we are short by one or two Members but I know that some are on their way coming. Therefore, we should put the waiting time to some good use.

Order Nos.13 and 14 on the Order Paper will require the same vote. I encourage the Movers to use one minute each. The Seconders should just nod their heads in agreement. Thereafter, I will propose the questions. This is what we will do so that by the time we have a full House, we will have exhausted the two. That is the best use of our time.

Order, Members. The voting is put in abeyance for a short while. I encourage the spirit of waiting in the Chamber for just a few minutes. I promise not more than 15 minutes but preferably 10.

Let us move to Order No.13.

July 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

July 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Just go straight to the point, Senator.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, if you look at the document that we were given, you will see that it is not legible. We are trying to see the figures because they have been written using a very small font. I can hear some Senators – including one that has the best eyesight, Sen. Ongoro – complaining that they cannot see the figures clearly.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am pretty older than the Senator. I also wear spectacles but I can see the figures very clearly. However, I plead that the hon. Member bears with me because the figures are not complicated. If you look at that last row, you will find that the total Equitable Share is Kshs259,774,500,000, the Fuel Levy Fund is Kshs3.3 billion, the Maternity Health Care is Kshs4,298,000,000, the User Fees Foregone is Kshs900 million, the Level 5 Hospitals is Kshs3,600,480,000, the Health Facilities – DANIDA is Kshs844,710,000 and the World Bank (WB) is Kshs508,245,204. The total comes to Kshs273,225,935,204.

Therefore, the Kshs273,225,935,204 will be disbursed in the manner shown. In July, Kshs22,088,077,200 will be disbursed while Kshs24,468,568,199 will be disbursed in August. That will happen for the next 12 months up to June, 2016.

This is basically what the Schedule is about. The actual disbursement is based on the revenue inflows by the Treasury. That is why you will find figures changing from one month to another. This is based on the projections of the revenue that the Kenya Revenue Authority (KRA) has. The Schedule is a straightforward thing. I urge Members to support it.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I ask Sen. Nabwala to second. I beg to move.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I stand to support the Cash Disbursement Schedule to County Governments for 2015/2016 Financial Year. The Schedule is very clear. Figures have been calculated by the national Treasury and disbursements will be done on a monthly basis. Of notable importance is the amount that will go to counties; that is the Equitable Share which is Kshs259,774,500,000. The other amounts make up to

July 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

July 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

That makes a total of Kshs273,225,935,204. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to second.

Order, Senators. I, therefore, wish to propose the question.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I support the Motion. We are performing a very important constitutional and legislative function. The Chairman has said quite rightly that if we do not approve the Schedule, then the Treasury will not oblige by sending these funds although issues of audit will come back to us later. I just want to emphasise the point that there cannot be these allocations and approvals without accountability. If we had time to debate this matter, it would have been an occasion to demonstrate to governors and county governments that having performed a constitutional function of making sure that they get these funds, they should not hesitate to come to the Senate when we ask questions about how money has been spent.

I say this because there was something that was going on out there about whether the Parliament is responsible for the wastage, loss and corruption being witnessed all over. The unanimous decision was that Parliament is not exercising its functions accordingly. Therefore, as we pass this Motion, I encourage the Committees; the Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget and the County Public Accounts and Investment Committee to do the work of oversight even more vigorously so that next time we allocate funds with the speed that the Chairman wants; we will ensure that what belongs to the people goes to them.

With those remarks, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to support.

Asante Bw. Spika kwa kunipa fursa kuchangia. Ni muhimu kupitisha Hoja hii. Hata hivyo, si vyema ikiwa tutapitisha Hoja muhimu kama hii inayohusu pesa kwenda mashinani ilhali zikifika huko zinatumika vibaya kwa sababu hakuna njia ya kuifuatilia. Sisi, Maseneta, tunaonekana kama mazuzu na watu wasioelewa wanalofanya.

Bw. Spika, juzi, kule mashinani katika bunge---

Jambo la nidhamu, Bw. Spika. Seneta anayechangia Hoja hii amesema kwamba sisi Maseneta tunaonekana kama zuzu. Je, anaweza kutueleza maana ya “zuzu?”

Bw. Spika, namaanisha kwamba Maseneta wanaonekana kama watu ambao hawajielewi.

Sen. Bule. Kwanza, ningependa kumueleza Sen. Billow kwamba hufai kusimama kwa hoja ya nidhamu ili ufunzwe lugha.

Endelea, Sen. Bule.

July 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

July 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Sen. Bule, maliza sasa.

Bw. Spika, jukumu letu kama Maseneta ni kutunga sheria. Wabunge katika Bunge la Kitaifa pia wanajukumu hilo hilo. Lakini wao wamejitengea mamilioni ya pesa ilhali hawatumii pesa hizo kufanya maendeleo. Hivi majuzi nilichunguza vile pesa hizo zinatumika na nikagundua jina la mtu mmoja ambaye inasemekana kwamba anasomea katika vyuo vikuu vitatu---

Tukipitisha Hoja hii, ningetaka magavana na Wabunge wajue kwamba Seneti ni kiungo muhimu katika ugatuzi na ni lazima Maseneta wapate pesa za kuwawezesha kuchunguza vile pesa zinazotengewa Kaunti zinatumika.

Asante, Bw. Spika.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for this opportunity to support this Motion. As I mentioned before, I think it is the high time as we go for this recess that we try to qualify what our mandate in terms of oversight should be, even as we internalize.

We are in very adverse circumstances. The Auditor General’s reports are out and they have created a national uproar and here we are approving money. I think this is the time we should have spoken about some of the issues in this Chamber, so that we actually demonstrate to the Kenyan people that we are executing our constitutional mandate, conscious that at certain points, due financial discipline is not being observed in counties. In fact, as Sen. Orengo said, a substantial part of our responsibility, for lack of audit of county governors, is being attached unfortunately, not to the institution of the Senate, but the Senator individually in the respective county. I started a debate in my own county and part of the backlash is: “How comes Senators across the country are not speaking to these issues, almost with the same kind of zeal and courage?”

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to assure each and every colleague here that most of the county reports are extremely of a shocking nature. Therefore, if you do not appear to speak in person as the Senator of those counties, people might take it that you are complicit to part of those excesses.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, finally, let us defend the office of the Auditor General. The Auditor General has done no mistake. He has simply given a reflection of what he feels is the accounting position in each county. It is not for us to start attacking offices that are

July 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

July 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Order, Senators. I hope that you are within the building.

Bw. Spika, Maseneta pia wanafaa kutengewa pesa ili waweze kukagua miradi na vitabu vya matumizi ya pesa ili kuzuia uporaji wa mali ya umma.

Asante sana, Bw. Spika.

Senators, you have a maximum of three minutes to contribute.

Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to thank the Chairperson of the Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget for bringing this Motion which I support. This Motion seeks the Senate to approve the cash disbursement schedule for every county.

From this schedule, my county is supposed to receive Kshs431 million by the end of July. I want every governor, county executive and county assembly to know that without the Senate no shilling whatsoever will be released to the county governments by the national Treasury, as indicated here. Therefore, if we delay passing this Motion, no money will be released to them.

This has to be understood by everybody working in the county governments, because a lot of lies are being told in those counties. In my county, the governor had the audacity to speak before me and tell people that the Senator has nothing to bring to the

July 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

July 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Order, Members! By the way, do not feel so frustrated. Yesterday, the Deputy Speaker actually put the Chair of the Committee on County Public Accounts and Investments Committee on the spot and he agreed that he is going to fast-track the process of looking at all the audited accounts of the counties. So, by the time you resume from recess, you will have a complete report. The reports were not coming, but they are now coming. We will even defer the interim Motion, so that he can give us a comprehensive report by the time we resume. So, that will be a good opportunity also to contribute.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. If you sit in one of the Committees where a petition has been referred to and listen to the people who call themselves “ministers” and governors, you will wonder whether they are really running the county or it is run by itself. We have all the facilities that we can use to deal with the situation on the ground. We appear to be helpless when talking about the county governments. But when you send money to the county governments and you are not satisfied that it was put into good use, why do we have to approve another amount of money the following year?

There is going to be a political crisis during the elections. Our re-election will be challenged. Some of us are comforting themselves by saying that we do not have money to give to the public, but that public is asking: If you give someone money and he cannot

July 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

July 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Asante, Bw. Spika. Leo tunatekeleza wajibu wetu kama Bunge la Seneti ili kuelekeza pesa mashinani. Kila Kaunti imepata haki yake. Lakini sijui kama tutatabasamu ama tuanze kulia na kusaga meno kwa sababu hatujui zitatumika namna gani huko.

Leo ninapiga kura Kaunti ya Migori ipatiwe Kshs5,836,852,127. Leo tukipitisha Hoja hii Kaunti hii itapata Kshs465,900,000. Lakini kuna wale walafi ambao wanazingoja waanze kuzitumia kwa sera zisizokubalika.

Nawatangazia watu wa Migori kwamba mimi niko tayari kugongana na Gavana na Spika iwapo hawatatekeleza wajibu wao kwa haki. Tutakutana kwa mikutano na nitawajulisha wananchi kuhusu ulafi, ulevi na ufidhuli wao mpaka wajukikane walivyo.

July 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

July 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to support this Motion. However, I have a specific issue with the fact that we are receiving this Schedule on the last day when we have time constraints. It is a pity that we do not have enough time to interrogate an important Schedule like this. In future, I believe we need to debate it thoroughly and give our input for necessary action.

This should be a wake up call to the governors. There is no way that we can be summoning them to the Senate and some of them refuse to come when the responsibility of allocating them funds lies with this Senate. We should put them on notice. From the next financial year, any county government that does not respond to any summons by the Senate will face specific action. We cannot give money without accountability.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, regarding any audit queries raised in any county government, we will use these schedules in the next financial year to see how this money has been spent. We shall deduct the amount which is not accounted for from their next allocation.

Lastly, we, as a Senate, must realise that the office of the Auditor-General is our strategic partner. We should ask the Auditor-General to give us a synthesized analysis of any report from his office on every county so that even as we interrogate this kind of schedule brought to the Senate, we have in-depth knowledge.

July 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

July 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

What is it, Sen. Elachi?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, would I be in order to request the Mover be called upon to reply?

Let Sen. (Prof.) Lesan conclude.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, as we discuss this Motion, we are aware of the raging debate in the country. In fact, it is a raging confrontation between the county assemblies and the governors. As I speak, in Bomet County, for example, the issue of the Appropriation Bill and the budget is in court. Therefore, the monies that we are appropriating here will, probably, not reach the people of Bomet County. There are many court cases ongoing, not only in my county, but in several counties where the county assemblies and the executive are fighting over these resources. It is incumbent upon this House to resolve some of these problems so that these monies go to the counties.

Secondly, we are seriously curtailed in our oversight role in the counties due to lack of facilitation. It is a fact that this House is aware of. I am sure that this is the only House that can resolve that problem.

Thirdly, the Auditor-General is complaining of lack of personnel. This House is aware that we cannot get audit reports unless we have the personnel to do this. It is time that we demand to have a special audit unit that can audit the county funds and bring us reports as soon as possible so that we can act on them in time.

I beg to support.

What is it, Sen. Kagwe?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, in view of the importance of this data and the fact that we do not have time to debate it fully today, would I be in order to propose that it be send via email to all Members of this House?

An hon. Senator: The font is small.

When you get it on email you can make it smaller or bigger.

Order, hon. Members!

Proceed, Mover.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I thank all the Members who have contributed on this Motion and others who very passionately wanted to contribute.

First, in future, as suggested, we will have this schedule as part of the county allocation so that immediately after, hon. Members can have adequate time to debate.

July 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

July 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Order, Senator! Are you not contributing?

No, I wanted the Chairman to take note of that so that he can take it up with the National Treasury at some appropriate moment. The county governments are giving that excuse for failing to pay their bills.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to follow up on what Sen. Kagwe said. Is it possible to send the schedule together with the resolution of the Senate so that when I go to Siaya County tomorrow, I can demonstrate the Schedule and the resolution and tell them that without me, they would not have had the money?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to follow up on what Sen. Kagwe said. Is it possible to send the schedule together with the resolution of the Senate so that when I go to Siaya County tomorrow, I can demonstrate the Schedule and the resolution and tell them that without me, they would not have had the money?

July 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

July 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I move that the report of the Mediation Committee on the Fertilizer and Animal Foodstuff (Amendment) Bill (National Assembly Bill No.36 of 2013) laid on the Table of the Senate on Thursday, 30th July 2015, be approved.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I move that the report of the Mediation Committee on the Fertilizer and Animal Foodstuff (Amendment) Bill (National Assembly Bill No.36 of 2013) laid on the Table of the Senate on Thursday, 30th July 2015, be approved.

Order, Sen. Obure! Do not make me say the things that I do not want to say.

Order, Sen. Ndiema! We are doing you a great favour, you should appreciate. I will also defer the putting of this question until that other process which will commence now.

Therefore, I order the Division Bell be rung for two minutes.

Hon. Senators, you need to appreciate what we are doing today because it is critical and important for your counties.

July 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

July 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

July 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Hon. Senators, I wish to announce the results of the Division as follows:-

July 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Hon. Senators, I wish to announce the results of the Division as follows:-

July 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Hon. Senators, I wish to announce the results of the Division as follows:-

July 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Hon. Senators, I wish to announce the results of the Division as follows:-

July 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Chairperson, Sir. The Committee has had this Bill since October last year. May be, I am also confused.

The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. (Dr.) Machage) : Who is the Mover? Sen. Ndiema, you are now a seasoned Member of this House and I think you have enough experience. The Mover is the only person who may do what you are requesting the Chair to do. Only the Mover can request the Chair through invoking Standing Order No.139 and request to report. Nobody else can do so.

Whereas I sympathise with your desire to think further and make more amendments and as you convince the Mover to do what you want to do, you are time barred.

Unless the Mover has something to say, let us continue.

July 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Mr. Temporary Chairperson, Sir, I have not seen the amendment. I do not know whether I am still time barred. If I look at it and it is suitable, I can assist Sen. Ndiema.

The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. (Dr.) Machage) : Sen. Ndiema you are at liberty to cross the Floor and be assisted appropriately.

Let us now continue with the Committee of the Whole on Order No. 12. Clauses 3, 4, 5, and 6

The Temporary Chairperson

(Sen. (Dr.) Machage)

: I see not intervention. Next Clause. Clause 7

The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. (Dr.) Machage) : There is an amendment.

Who is the Mover? Sen. Ndiema, you are now a seasoned Member of this House and I think you have enough experience. The Mover is the only person who may do what you are requesting the Chair to do. Only the Mover can request the Chair through invoking Standing Order No.139 and request to report. Nobody else can do so. Whereas I sympathise with your desire to think further and make more amendments and as you convince the Mover to do what you want to do, you are time barred. Unless the Mover has something to say, let us continue.

July 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

- THAT, Clause 8 of the Bill be amended—

July 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

THAT, Clause 14 of the Bill be amended by deleting sub-clause 5. The sub-clause that we want to remove is the delegation of responsibilities under the Act to the County Assembly which is not necessary.

Clause 20

- THAT, Clause 20 of the Bill be amended in sub clause (1) by inserting the following new paragraph immediately after paragraph (a) —

I see not intervention. Next Clause. Clause 7 The Temporary Chairperson (

: THAT, Clause 28 of the Bill be amended in sub-clause (1) by deleting paragraph (b) .

July 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

- THAT, Clause 55 of the Bill be amended by deleting paragraph

(d)

. The object of this amendment is the requirement for transfer of technology maybe difficult to enforce when dealing with this particular sub-clause.

Clause 56

- THAT, the Bill be amended by deleting Clause 56. We need to delete this Clause because it contravenes other laws that we have passed here on revenues to communities.

(Question, that Clauses 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63, 64,

65, 66 and 67 be part of the Bill proposed) Clause 68

July 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

- THAT, Clause 68 of the Bill be amended in sub-clause

(1)

by deleting the words “the Commission or” appearing at the beginning of the sub-clause. This is just an amendment in the wording of the sentence. There is no material change in the Bill.

Clause 69

THAT, Clause 14 of the Bill be amended by deleting sub-clause 5. The sub-clause that we want to remove is the delegation of responsibilities under the Act to the County Assembly which is not necessary.

Clause 20

- THAT, Clause 20 of the Bill be amended in sub clause (1) by inserting the following new paragraph immediately after paragraph (a) —

July 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

July 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Mr. Temporary Speaker, I beg to report that the Committee of the Whole has considered the Community Land Bill (Senate Bill No.38 of 2014) and seeks leave to sit again tomorrow.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I beg to move that the Senate do agree with the Committee in the said report.

Sen. Keter seconded.

- THAT, the Bill be amended by deleting Clause 56. We need to delete this Clause because it contravenes other laws that we have passed here on revenues to communities.

(Question, that Clauses 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63, 64,

65, 66 and 67 be part of the Bill proposed) Clause 68

Next Order!

July 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Madam Temporary Speaker, I beg to move that---

July 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Mr. Temporary Speaker, I beg to report that the Committee of the Whole has considered the Community Land Bill (Senate Bill No.38 of 2014) and seeks leave to sit again tomorrow.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I beg to move that the Senate do agree with the Committee in the said report.

Sen. Keter seconded.

July 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Next Order!

Madam Temporary Speaker, procedurally, there is need for the House to resolve that I reply.

I have already given you the Floor.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I take this opportunity to thank all the Members who had contributed on this Motion. Many issues came out, but there are only two issues I wish to mention. There were one or two Members who gave sentiments that it would be a lot of work going round all the counties looking at county headquarters and other facilities. I confirm that that is not the intention because we intend to borrow heavily from experts.

A report had already been done. We will be revisiting it to see its adequacy and inclusiveness. In our final amendment, we included a Member who was the Permanent Secretary in the Ministry of Public Works who is now a Senator. He will be an important resource person.

With those few words, Madam Temporary Speaker, I beg to reply.

Very well. I will now put the question and this does not affect counties. So, it will be decided on through acclamation.

The Senate Majority Leader, you may resume your contribution.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I was winding up my remarks. As we go on recess, let us take this opportunity to build on the very good momentum that we had started of making the country look better than anything else. We should also understand that unanimity is not possible in human endeavour. You are bound to have differences and diversity. However, diversity is not

July 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Madam Temporary Speaker, let me congratulate the Senate Majority Leader because when it comes to matters to do with the Senate, he has stood

July 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

July 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

As I allow Members to contribute, I want to limit debate to five minutes, so that everybody can have an opportunity.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I want to join the Senate Majority Leader and the Senator for Siaya in supporting this Motion. I thank all the Senators for the work we have done so far.

Many Bills and Motions have been passed during this period and I want to thank the Senators for that. Even the work in the Committees has been tremendous. The Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget has been working for the last three weeks and I want to thank the Members. We were able to clear most of the work that was pending. As we go for recess, I think it is our opportunity also to ensure that the counties understand that, indeed, they should be accountable.

If you look at the reports of the Auditor-General they are very worrying. We are a rich country, but it seems like most of our resources, as President Obama said, are going to people’s pockets, when actually many young people would have benefited. Therefore, I wish to remind the county governments that, indeed, it was the wish of the Kenyan people to ensure that we have devolution, but ensure that services are given to them. Whenever we see misuse of resources we ask ourselves whether we devolved corruption among the functions under the Fourth Schedule. I hope the governors will take responsibility knowing that we are now going to the third year since the last general election.

When we come back from recess I hope that we shall get a report and recommendations of the Select Committee that we tasked to review the Constitution.

With those few remarks, I beg to support.

July 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Since interest has increased, I will limit debate further to three minutes.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. From the outset, let me thank the Senate Majority Leader for defending this House, even when it is most dangerous, politically, for him to do so, especially when he stood against the powers that be.

Gradually, the citizens of Kenya have realized that the Senate is the safeguard of their interests, especially devolution. I have said here before that even if we have been denied oversight funds, most Senators are doing social work for the people of Kenya. As we move on, maybe we will have a separate Senate service commission and the Senators who will come after us will enjoy the benefits. Everyday when I share the wisdom of “Senator 1,” Sen. G.G. Kariuki, the knowledge and experience of Sen. (Eng.) Muriuki and Sen. (Dr.) Machage I feel proud to be representing Nyamira County in this Senate.

As we go on our recess it is incumbent upon us, especially the Members of the County Public Accounts and Investments Committee, to look at how the funds that have been devolved have been spent. I also pray for all us to stay on course as we fight for the interests of this country, as we swore when we were given this opportunity by the people of Kenya.

Madam Temporary Speaker, with those few remarks, I beg to support.

July 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Order, Senator! Your time is up! Proceed, Sen. Ong’era.

July 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

July 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I also thank the Senate leadership for guiding the House this far. As we break for recess, my heart goes out to the youths of this country for the challenges that they are facing. I hope that as we go for recess, we should remember to build on the good that is helpful to the youth.

In the last two or three weeks, there was a determined fight against alcohol. We can convincingly say that there has been relative peace and a complete reduction of crime in this country as a result of the positive efforts to fight illicit brews. I hope this will continue so that we can save our youth from this menace and bring peace in our homes.

Secondly, we know the vibrancy of the youth. We will be with them. They often learn from examples. Around this time of the year, there are numerous unrests in our schools. School infrastructure is burnt down by students owing to disobedience of the youth. As we go for recess, it is incumbent upon the leadership to talk in a manner that we can educate and caution our youth against behaviour that destroys the infrastructure that has been put up at enormous cost and effort so that it can be used to improve their lot.

Lastly, this is an agricultural economy. We are going out of the city and out of the Chamber to the countryside where the agricultural activity is going on. As we go to recess, it is also upon us, the leadership, to educate our farmers in the countryside whose critical deficiency is lack of know-how and knowledge to better themselves using the land resource. I am sure that this is one of the areas which we will deal with when we are on recess. I come from an agricultural area where tea is an important economic activity. I

July 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

July 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I want to join my colleagues in supporting this Motion. I applaud Senators for the work well done. We did a lot of work in terms of Bills, Motions and Statements which clearly tackle the urgent matters in this country.

As we proceed, I would like all the Senators to pray for this country because we are facing a lot of challenges in terms of insecurity, corruption and so many other issues.

This is the August holiday; sometimes we will be re-energized and meet with our electorate and our families. We, as parents, need to meet with our children who are students so that we guide them in terms of careers. Some of us who have small children need to spend time with them and allow them to adapt to us so that in future, they do not call us auntie.

With those few remarks, I wish all Senators a good recess. It is my prayer that we will all come back safely.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I join my colleagues in congratulating the Senate Majority Leader for bringing this Motion of Adjournment. Senators will visit their counties during recess time. Some of them will be sitting in Committees to handle issues of petitions. The Auditors-General’s reports for the last financial year have all come. I am not forgetting some of us from the North Rift who had problems of cattle rustling. This Session, Senators from the North Rift region decided to work together to fight the problem of cattle rustling head on, led by Sen. Moi, Sen. Leshore and myself. I can report that there has been significant improvement and we do not hear those problems again. I want to believe that we will continue to do the same during recess.

At the same time, hon. Senators need to be on the ground to disseminate and explain the functions of the Senate. There is a lot of misunderstanding on the ground. Citizens think that Senators have money that they are supposed to use for development. The people who are perpetuating this are the governors, whom we have just given money today. We have just released the payments for the County Governments Disbursement Schedule for the Financial Year 2015/2016. Unfortunately, some of this money will be used for running campaigns.

In some instances, I am surprised that some governors have decided to become the rallying points for campaigns. They have already created their governors, Senators, MCAs and Members of Parliament (MPs) for themselves. In my county, there is one “governor” who has been given money and he is everywhere digging boreholes. He is saying that “You are the real Senator. “ Which boreholes have been drilled by this man?” My responsibility is not to dig boreholes. I am not supposed to build anything. I am

July 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Your time is up, Senator! Please, proceed, Sen. (Eng.) Muriuki.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I will start by wishing my fellow Senators a good recess. I only have one substantive point to make. We are going on recess at a time when the Auditor-General has just released reports for the county governments and Ministries. It is a very sad day that we are now saying that so- and-so is ours, we know him and he should be left alone.

At the moment, some MCAs are demanding that governors should be left alone because they are good people. But if they are being investigated by the Ethics Anti- Corruption Commission (EACC) or are charged in court, they should go there and say so. On the other hand, we have also now coined a new song, saying that so-and-so is a very hardworking person. We shall congratulate somebody for being hardworking, but if money is being embezzled or stolen under his watch, being hardworking has nothing to do with what the Auditor-General and the EACC team says. Therefore, one should not work hard and then put our money in his pocket.

We are now going for recess when many governors appear in the Auditor- General’s report. I can promise Senators that they will see the MCAs up in arms saying that we are now interfering with the governors. These documents are public and we have to talk about them. Therefore, I would like to call upon the whole nation to stand up and be counted. The funds which are under your watch are not yours.

With those few words, I beg to support.

July 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

July 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

July 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Amen. Thank you, Senator.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I want to join my colleagues in supporting this Motion. I applaud Senators for the work well done. We did a lot of work in terms of Bills, Motions and Statements which clearly tackle the urgent matters in this country.

As we proceed, I would like all the Senators to pray for this country because we are facing a lot of challenges in terms of insecurity, corruption and so many other issues.

This is the August holiday; sometimes we will be re-energized and meet with our electorate and our families. We, as parents, need to meet with our children who are students so that we guide them in terms of careers. Some of us who have small children need to spend time with them and allow them to adapt to us so that in future, they do not call us auntie.

With those few remarks, I wish all Senators a good recess. It is my prayer that we will all come back safely.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I join my colleagues in congratulating the Senate Majority Leader for bringing this Motion of Adjournment. Senators will visit their counties during recess time. Some of them will be sitting in Committees to handle issues of petitions. The Auditors-General’s reports for the last financial year have all come. I am not forgetting some of us from the North Rift who had problems of cattle rustling. This Session, Senators from the North Rift region decided to work together to fight the problem of cattle rustling head on, led by Sen. Moi, Sen. Leshore and myself. I can report that there has been significant improvement and we do not hear those problems again. I want to believe that we will continue to do the same during recess.

At the same time, hon. Senators need to be on the ground to disseminate and explain the functions of the Senate. There is a lot of misunderstanding on the ground. Citizens think that Senators have money that they are supposed to use for development. The people who are perpetuating this are the governors, whom we have just given money today. We have just released the payments for the County Governments Disbursement Schedule for the Financial Year 2015/2016. Unfortunately, some of this money will be used for running campaigns.

In some instances, I am surprised that some governors have decided to become the rallying points for campaigns. They have already created their governors, Senators, MCAs and Members of Parliament (MPs) for themselves. In my county, there is one “governor” who has been given money and he is everywhere digging boreholes. He is saying that “You are the real Senator. “ Which boreholes have been drilled by this man?” My responsibility is not to dig boreholes. I am not supposed to build anything. I am

July 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

Your time is up, Senator! Please, proceed, Sen. (Eng.) Muriuki.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I will start by wishing my fellow Senators a good recess. I only have one substantive point to make. We are going on recess at a time when the Auditor-General has just released reports for the county governments and Ministries. It is a very sad day that we are now saying that so- and-so is ours, we know him and he should be left alone.

At the moment, some MCAs are demanding that governors should be left alone because they are good people. But if they are being investigated by the Ethics Anti- Corruption Commission (EACC) or are charged in court, they should go there and say so. On the other hand, we have also now coined a new song, saying that so-and-so is a very hardworking person. We shall congratulate somebody for being hardworking, but if money is being embezzled or stolen under his watch, being hardworking has nothing to do with what the Auditor-General and the EACC team says. Therefore, one should not work hard and then put our money in his pocket.

We are now going for recess when many governors appear in the Auditor- General’s report. I can promise Senators that they will see the MCAs up in arms saying that we are now interfering with the governors. These documents are public and we have to talk about them. Therefore, I would like to call upon the whole nation to stand up and be counted. The funds which are under your watch are not yours.

With those few words, I beg to support.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. As we take our recess, we look back and see our achievements and failures. The Senate has had more achievements in the form of Bills that we have passed and the contributions to the welfare of this country, especially in the form of advice that we have given to the leadership. The Senate is the most sober House of Parliament and that has been seen to be so.

There is a lot of dirty linen out there that the Senate will unfortunately have to see in the form of works of the governors and their cohorts; corruption, left and right, misappropriation of resources and direct stealing that we have to go and abhor and comment on. It may not be easy because the system may not really be supporting the Senate. However, devolution is here to stay and the people have decided that it is a good system. If it is a good system, then the Senate will stay whether they like it or not. The

July 30th, 2015 SENATE DEBATES

On behalf of the Speaker’s Panel, the Speaker and my own behalf, I take this opportunity to wish all the Senators a constructive and fruitful engagement during the recess. I hope that all of you will be positively engaged.

Thank you.

Hon. Senators, it is now time to interrupt the business of the Senate. The Senate stands adjourned until Tuesday, 15th September, 2015, at 2.30 p.m.

The Senate rose at 6.47 p.m.