Thursday, 30th April, 2015

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to lay the following Paper on the Table of the Senate:-

Report on the Public Finance Management Equalisation Fund Guidelines 2015.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to lay the following Paper on the Table of the Senate:-

Report on the Examination of the Petition by Mr. Joseph Tipanko ole Karia on the Management of Revenue from Maasai Mara Game Reserve by Narok County Government.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to lay the following Papers on the Table of the Senate:-

April 30, 2015 SENATE DEBATES HALF YEAR REPORT OF THE MINISTRY OF INFORMATION, COMMUNICATIONS AND TECHNOLOGY STATUS REPORT ON ANALOGUE DIGITAL MIGRATION PETITION BY AFRICA DIGITAL NETWORK LIMITED

Very well.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Status Report on Digital Migration tells the House that there was a petition that was directed to my Committee on Information and Technology. I want to report to the House that this petition has been withdrawn by the petitioners. The Report, therefore, is to table that withdrawal and the proceedings that went on thereof.

That settles the issue. I do not know whether in due course there will be need for a notice of Motion to be given on the same issue. For now, you have tabled the Report. That is it for now.

There are a few statements that should be given today. We will start with the Senators seeking Statements, if any. Why is it that I do not have any requests on the screen? Is the system not working?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to seek a statement from the Vice Chairman of the Joint Committee on Cohesion and Equal Opportunity regarding the criteria for appointment and the regional distribution of the recent appointment to parastatals. In the statement, the Vice Chairman should state;

Who is the Vice Chairman of the Joint Committee on Cohesion and Equal Opportunity? It seems the Vice Chairman of the Joint Committee on Cohesion is not in. Is there any other Member of that Committee in the House?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, there is no other Member apart from me.

Sen. (Eng.) Muriuki, since there is no other Member of the Joint Committee on Cohesion and Equal Opportunity and I do not have an indication from you that you want to say a word, I will ask the Clerk to give a copy of the HANSARD to the Committee Chairman.

I order that the answer be given in the next seven days; that is, Thursday, next week.

In the meantime, Sen. (Eng.) Muriuki, as a Member of that Committee, you can report to your Chairman.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I suggest that since the Chief Whip---

Order! I do not know the membership of the Committee. In fact, she has not indicated to me that she is a Member of that Committee. Therefore, I have no knowledge as to whether she is a Member of that Committee or not. However, I have already given a direction and that will be the position.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, should I inform the Vice Chairperson?

You do not have to. You have done your work. You are functus officio. The Clerks-at-the-Table will inform the Chairperson. We expect to have an answer next week on Thursday. May be, you could help to facilitate that.

Is there any other Senator seeking a Statement? I am afraid that my screen is not working. It is an inconvenience, but we shall proceed that way.

Proceed, Sen. Njoroge.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

What is your point of order Sen. Murkomen?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I suggest that in that regard, we can use the old analogue method where we just have to shout “ point of order” or stand up in our places.

Is that your point of order? Proceed, Sen. Njoroge.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I rise to seek a Statement from the Chairperson of the Committee on Health regarding the opening of a new multi- million shillings Battery Assembly Factory in Naivasha that has raised concern among the residents of the area in Nyamathi which borders Maraigushu. This is in the backdrop of the negative effects of lead in a community in Mombasa. In the Statement, the Chairperson should address the following:-

Are you through, Sen. Njoroge?

Yes, I am Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

The Chairman of the Committee on Health is not here.

Proceed, Sen. (Prof) Lesan.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. On behalf of the Chairperson who is not here at the moment, I rise to request that we be given about six weeks to respond to Sen. Njoroge’s request. This is because we have gone through a similar exercise where we looked at another factory with similar problems. It has taken us close to four months to find out and establish a credible answer for the House.

Sen. Njoroge, is six weeks okay with you?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, six weeks will be too long considering that Naivasha is almost one hour drive from Nairobi. Given the fact that they carried out a similar exercise before in Mombasa, I do not think they will encounter many obstacles in Naivasha. Therefore, they do not need six weeks. This situation has far reaching effects to the residents of that area and needs to be addressed immediately. It cannot be left unattended for a long time.

Sen. Njoroge, I do not seem to have a copy of the Statement you are seeking.

a copy of the Statement) Hon. Senator, I have now seen the Statement. The Committee on Health has asked for six weeks. However, I would like to know whether the factory is already constructed and when it is being opened?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the factory is already operating.

Sen. (Prof.) Lesan, we are reading about a similar issue from the press in Mombasa. However, I do not know whether it is a question of physical facility or policy to the effects that could be there. Is six weeks not too long, considering that it is operating and lives could be in danger?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, from the face of it, this is a fairly complicated issue that involves dealing with other bodies like NEMA and other Ministries as well, including all the licensing agencies. It also includes many of the affected individuals having to give evidence as to what the consequences of the factory are. These are important in the answering of the question that has been asked. So, it is not really a question of the distance between here and Naivasha, but the complexity of the whole issue dealing with a factory or business interest that is going to hold its ground on

this and argue its case. That will, therefore, require a thorough investigation. I still think that six weeks is good enough time.

Personally, I take the view that your request for six weeks is reasonable. However, look at what is being sought in (b) :-

State whether the Environmental Impact Assessment (EIA) was exhaustively conducted by the National Environmental Management Authority (NEMA) ?

If NEMA says it has exhaustively conducted evaluation, it might have a bearing on your answer. So, I direct that you summon NEMA to your Committee in the course of next week to get an answer on (b) in the first instance. Let us know whether or not, any exhaustive Environmental Impact Assessment (EIA) was done by NEMA. Let us know on Thursday, next week, the position on (b) even as you wait to do an exhaustive investigation which could take six weeks. I think everything will very much hinge on the report that NEMA has made or would have made. Whether or not you are satisfied with that report, it will have a lot of impact on the answer that you give in due course.

Is that so, Sen. (Prof.) Lesan?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, that is okay. It actually means that we are going to give an interim report on the first instance, then be allowed to carry out a thorough report.

You will give us an interim report on Thursday, next week, based on (b) ; only then you can proceed to the others.

Proceed, Sen. Billow.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Yesterday, the Senator for Wajir and I rose on a point of order---

Order, Sen. Billow! Let us finish with Statements first. Anybody else seeking for a Statement?

Yes, Sen. Musila?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, just before we went on recess, I had sought a Statement on the matter of cash transfers. The Chair of the Committee on Labour and Social Welfare had unsuccessfully attempted to give a Statement which was rejected by the House and was required to come back with another Statement. We came back from recess. I think this is a matter that the House should take into account so that we do not lose focus because it is a very important matter for the nation. Therefore, it should be addressed.

Who is the Chairperson of the Committee on Labour and Social Welfare?

Sen. Njoroge, do you have any answer to Sen. Musila’s request?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we will address it on Tuesday, next week.

Yes, we can address it on Tuesday, Sen. Musila.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I wanted to intervene on the issue of parastatals. Could I go ahead and do so?

Order! It is too late, Senator.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rose earlier, but I did not get an opportunity. I do not have a screen now and I am now following what we call “catch the eye” approach.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, you were to alert us on that, but you never did so. That is why we are using these gadgets.

The first thing I did was to say that the screen system is not working, but let me hear you now.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I wanted to add my voice on Sen. (Eng.) Muriuki’s request on parastatal appointments by His Excellency the President. I request the Vice Chairperson to tell us the number of women and youth whom I represent in this Senate – how many were appointed.

The Chairman of the Committee was not here so I asked the Clerk to give a copy of the HANSARD to him. What you are asking is reasonable and will be incorporated in that Statement.

My screen is now working.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, there was communication from the Chair where it was ordered that I bring forth a Statement on the ongoing property development on land reference number Nairobi Block 90/599 situated at the junction of Loresho Ridge and Kiptagat Road. This instruction was given when you were not on the Chair. However, I do not know what direction you will give now that I may not give the answer when you are chairing. I seek your directions.

Sen. Kivuti, I am the one who had sought that Statement and the information I gave to the Speaker then is that I had seen your Statement, but in the form of a report. I do not know whether you now have a Statement or a report. What do you have?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have both. The report was as a result of the Statement which I gave, but required additional intervention. We, as a Committee, did so and came up with a report.

The Speaker directed that the report would be tabled and you know when you do so it can only be debated when a Notice of Motion is given. Since that is not the case, I would direct that the Statement be issued on Tuesday, next week, at 2.30 p.m. I hope I will not be sitting here because I need to interrogate that Statement since I am the one who sought it.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rose on a point of order yesterday on the Floor of this House under Standing Order No. 94 (1) regarding the contributions---

Order, Senator! Just before you came in, Sen. Billow----

I can still allow him to do it.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kembi-Gitura): Order! It is also good to communicate. Senator for Mandera rose on that issue and I informed him that we are still on Statements. We have not reached there yet. We are now dealing with people seeking and issuing Statements before we proceed with the Order of the day.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, before we went on recess I sought two Statements; one from the Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights and the one from the Committee on Defence and Foreign Affairs. I had sought to be told the status of hiring youth from the National Youth Service (NYS) to go for jobs in the United Arab Emirates (UAE) . I am still waiting for that.

When were you supposed to be given the response on the first one?

When were you supposed to be given the response on the first one?

Before we went on recess. By that time, a timeline of two weeks had been given.

It was supposed to be issued on 11th March, 2015.

I thought I saw Sen. Murkomen here. Do you have the Statement on the recruitment of youth to UAE? You were supposed to have issued it on 11th March, 2015.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I do not have it.

Why do you not have it? It was supposed to be issued on the 11th March 2015. You undertook to give it then.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is because I had not been appraised that today the answer would be required. I will need to consult the secretariat.

Sen. Murkomen, I do not think you can afford to be so casual about such an important issue. A Statement was sought, you are the Chairman of the Committee, and it was supposed to have been given on the 11thMarch, 2015. Is it ready or not? That is the question. It is not a question of asking the secretariat. You are the Chairman of the Committee.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, one of the ways of alerting chairpersons to answer questions is when it is in the Order of Paper. Today it was not on

the Order Paper, but I am properly reminded and I will ensure that I follow up immediately I leave this House.

Could you give an indication on when you will issue that Statement?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I will bring back an answer to this House by Tuesday as to whether or not the Statement is ready. I will know the status ---

Sen. Murkomen, this is serious business of the House. A Statement was sought by Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale – if my record is correct – on 25thFebruary, 2015 and you undertook to issue it on 11th March, 2015. So, it is not enough for you to tell us that you will give us a status. If you can tell me that on Tuesday or Thursday, next week, you will issue the Statement, I will accept that.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, in that regard, if I can be given up to Thursday, next week.

It is so ordered; come up with a Statement or tell us why you are not issuing it.

Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, the next one was on Mumias. Was it?

Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

That is for the Chairman of the Committee of Legal Affairs and Human Rights.

Sen. Wako is not here and I cannot see any Member of the Committee. Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, that request will be put before the Chairman of the Committee to give us a status report on Wednesday, next week, on the issue of Mumias. Is that okay?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, sometime in March, I sought two Statements; one was from the Chairman of the Committee on National Security and Foreign Relations on the Baragoi security situation.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I will give the answer on Wednesday, next week.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I will give the answer on Wednesday, next week.

Okay, Wednesday next week. The next one, Sen. Leshore was for which committee? Sen. Billow, when are you going to issue that Statement to Sen. Leshore?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I actually sought his indulgence yesterday that the Statement is not ready and I really appeal to him to give me another one week to get the Statement because it is a very important one.

Okay, next Thursday. Thank you. Sen. Kivuti.

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I remember I was talking and my name was not appearing on the screen. I am wondering whether the press is aware of my name in this Senate or not, including now. Other names are appearing, except mine.

Sorry, I did not get you. What has the press got to do or what have I got to do with the press? What is the question?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, if you look at the screen, my name is not on it. I am wondering if it is in order that my name is not on the screen when other names are appearing.

Now, they have put it.

That settles the issue. Does it not? Since I can see your name on the ---

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, my name is Lenny Kivuti, not Maxwell Kivuti.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. There is a Statement listed today. This is about Malka Daka Irrigation Project. The Statement was sought by Sen. Adan, but I do not see her today. I seek your guidance whether I should go ahead.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. There is a Statement listed today. This is about Malka Daka Irrigation Project. The Statement was sought by Sen. Adan, but I do not see her today. I seek your guidance whether I should go ahead.

The Member is not here. I think the current rule and direction is that, in the first instance, if the Member is not in the House we defer the issuing of the Statement so that he or she can interrogate it properly.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am guided. I was ready and she had actually insisted that this Statement ---

She is not here. I request that you do it on Tuesday, next week. Thank you.

Very well. No more Statement apparently being sought.

April 30, 2015 SENATE DEBATES POINTS OF ORDER SUBSTANTIATION OF ALLEGATIONS MADE AGAINST MEMBERS OF THE PSC BY SEN. (DR.) KHALWALE

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I rose on a point of order yesterday under Standing Order No.94 regarding allegations that were made by Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale that have serious implications on leaders of both Houses, on the Somali Community and, by extension, on the Muslim Community.

There are three issues he was expected to substantiate today. Yesterday, the Temporary Speaker had said that we wait for today to get the response. However, I want to point out three key issues which I feel must be responded to along with substantiation on a list of Somali employees by the Parliamentary Service Commission (PSC) . I wonder loudly what the relationship is between the recruitment of the Somalis or Muslims and terrorism in this country. We know we have a national problem in our hands. What happened in Garissa has affected all of us, it pains us badly. I am surprised that a colleague can come out in this House and label us as terrorists---

Order, Senator! You know, that was a Motion on Adjournment on Tuesday. It canvassed the issue that Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale had sought to be canvassed. Certain directions were given during that Motion on what Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale should do regarding the list that he referred to. So, if that is what you are asking for, you ask for that. What we are not going to do is to reopen a debate on a Motion of Adjournment because it was dealt with and finalized on Tuesday.

However, there are some pending issues on that Motion - if you have a copy of the HANSARD - and that is the list that Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale referred to, and which he was directed to table in the House.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have a copy of the HANSARD. I agree with you that what we expected today is the list. We demand the list to be tabled by Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale. This actually demands a public apology and withdrawal. We are not taking this lightly, I must say.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, I stand guided. If the list is not provided, we will ask you to follow up the issue with repercussions.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, thank you for guiding me.

Thank you, Sen. Abdirahman. My guidance which is according to the rules; the Standing Orders, is that - like I have just done - the Motion of Adjournment is finalized, except that Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale was ordered to make a certain substantiation which issue came up yesterday. As far as I am concerned, that is the only issue pending on that Motion of Adjournment.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise on the same issue. This is a House of decorum. It is very important that the distinguished ladies and gentlemen who are in this House respect each one of us and also respect the values that are enshrined in our Constitution; values that are clearly set out in Article 10 of our Constitution.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the National Cohesion and Integration Commission (NCIC) Act is very clear. It outlaws and, in fact, makes it an offence to engage in ethnic

discrimination. Ethnic discrimination and ethnic victimisation arises when you stand up in a House, mention a community and say very clearly – I want to read the HANSARD here that the proportion of the Somali youth---

What page are you reading?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am reading page 39 of the HANSARD. It says:-

“The proportion of the Somali youth who have been recruited into the Parliamentary Service Commission (PSC) is not proportionate to the rightful quota as per the statistics of the population of Kenya.” Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, two issues arise: First, you are singling out discriminatively one community. That is outlawed and it should not be allowed in this House.

Secondly ---

Order, Sen. Billow! I made it clear and you are jumping the gun. I made it very clear that the Motion of Adjournment is finished. It will not be discussed again, except in so-far-as Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale is required to make a certain substantiation. That is what I said.

If you want to re-open that debate, you will not do it by a point of order. You have to come to the Speaker’s Office and ask for leave to bring another Motion of Adjournment in which then you can deal with issues that you want to deal with. However, there is no way we shall have one hour of a Motion of Adjournment at the direction of the Speaker, then you bring a point of order and expect us to deal with the Motion of Adjournment again. I shall not allow that because it then makes the rules of the House futile.

We will follow what is in the HANSARD or the direction I made which was reiterated yesterday by the Temporary Speaker who was here. We will then proceed from that point. However, you cannot do that now because you are neither on appeal nor review. You cannot possibly re-open a debate and expect me to allow it because I would not allow it. Therefore, the only thing anybody can do now is to ask what happened about the substantiation so that I can ask Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale to give us the substantiation. That is all.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we are not asking for the debate to be opened. We go by your ruling and the ruling which was made by the former Speaker. While we demand that Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale substantiates, this issue is more than character assassination and insult. It is equal to murder.

Order, Sen. Haji. I have the greatest respect for all of you, Senators. I hope you will not make my work too difficult. I have made a ruling on that issue. The only thing pending, I have said, is what Sen. (Dr.) has to substantiate. I said this because – I want to be understood – all of you had a chance to be in the House and debate on the Motion of Adjournment. If you want to debate on a similar issue, you have to get the leave of the Speaker like Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale had the leave of the Speaker. You cannot say that the Speaker was possibly wrong in allowing that Motion. If you wanted to make a point of order when the Motion was being debated, you should have done it then, but not now. It is too late.

This is the same way that I do now allow you to make a point of order after the person contributing has sat down. If you want us to discuss this matter further, follow the Standing Orders. There is no debate that will be curtailed or stopped in the House as long as the Speaker has given permission or leave for it to be debated. That is the point I want everybody to understand.

Let me set the rules and make it clear from where I sit. All of you are now pre- empting debate. You are anticipating what Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale will say or how I will rule in that case. I do not think that is correct. If you want me to set the rules and make them clear, the point I am making - this should be clear from the outset - is that there will not be a Motion of Adjournment through points of order. That is the point I am making.

Therefore, Sen. Billow, if you want to re-open the issue, I will not allow it. If you want to bring it out again, I will not allow it. After Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale has substantiated and the matter is not concluded, then, at that point, you may intervene. However, that will depend on what and how this debate proceeds.

Sen. Billow, Do you still have a point of order? Could I here you?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we are allowed to seek for a point of order. What I have is on a different perspective, but not on your ruling.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I seek your guidance, as the Speaker of this House. If a statement which contravenes the law of this country is made in this House, what would be your guidance? Should we not have that matter discussed? This is a House that must, by all standards, respect the Constitution of this country. We all swore to respect the Constitution. Therefore, if I stand here and make a statement with legal implications or a statement that contravenes the Constitution, what would be your guidance? Can I not rise on a point of order and seek clarification? That is what we are doing, but not to debate. That is not the issue.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I seek your guidance, as the Speaker of this House. If a statement which contravenes the law of this country is made in this House, what would be your guidance? Should we not have that matter discussed? This is a House that must, by all standards, respect the Constitution of this country. We all swore to respect the Constitution. Therefore, if I stand here and make a statement with legal implications or a statement that contravenes the Constitution, what would be your guidance? Can I not rise on a point of order and seek clarification? That is what we are doing, but not to debate. That is not the issue.

That is important, Sen. Billow. If a statement is made in the House by any Senator and the Speaker raises or comes up with that issue--- If, for instance, you want to discuss the National Assembly, a Judge, the President or the presidency, for that matter, I would stop you in your tracks because I would point out Standing Order No.90 to you. It says you cannot impute improper motive even on your own colleague.

However, I would like you to look at the HANSARD on the proceedings on Tuesday. I recall clearly - because I was chairing that debate - that Sen. Hassan rose on a point of order. It is pursuant to his rising on a point of order that I made the ruling which I made for Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale to either substantiate or withdraw and apologise which he undertook to do the following day, which was yesterday. So, that is where we are at the moment.

If you can show me a part of the HANSARD and tell me that you think that there is a point at which I ought to have stopped debate - But you must take cognizance of the

fact that there was leave from the Speaker for the Motion for Adjournment to proceed. We proceeded on that scale. Any Member who was here will be bear it out that the points of order were raised, canvassed and the debate went on. What I remember is that neither Sen. Abdirahman nor Sen. Billow were here. So, if you are basing your arguments on what you have read in the HANSARD, it is extremely dangerous because then we will have a seesaw of a debate.

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I will not want to defy your ruling, but since you have given a window, I was waiting actually to hear what Sen. Khalwale will say. But your last statement gives me a window to actually look at the HANSARD. What we anticipate from Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale today is only a list of employees, if he is able to do so. However, the issues that have far-reaching consequences on the lives of our people have not been addressed adequately. If you will allow us later on, as you say---

Order! Sen. Abdirahman, I do not know what is not clear from what I have said. If you want to debate an issue in this House, you come here and participate in the debate. However, you cannot go and read the HANSARD and then come and say: “This issue should have proceeded this way.” It is wrong. We are not going to allow you, unless you bring a substantive Motion. I cannot allow you to possibly go and read the HANSARD and then come and try to make corrections of what has been said in the House. That is the point I am trying to make.

Sen. Halima Abdille.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I appreciate your ruling, but want to inform Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale and the nation that two of the four terrorists that attacked Garissa are from---

Order, Sen. Abdille! The Senate Minority Leader (

Our continued escalation of this matter in the full glare of the country does not mitigate any wrong that may have been done. If anything, we are inflaming and raising passions. We are actually inciting even those who did not hear the speech to start thinking differently.

Many of us have been wronged many times and sometimes we let it pass for the good of everything. I want to implore our colleagues who feel strongly and offended that we have a different way of dealing with this matter than in the full glare of the country on a matter that can have far-reaching and unhelpful negative consequences that would hurt everybody. I urge your indulgence, hon. colleagues, because we are all very senior citizens and legislators in this country - However strongly we feel, there are times when we feel that it is easier and better to let go than continue rubbing each other, because it does not help us or the country.

Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, it is now your turn. I am not going to keep this open forever.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise to substantiate the statement that I made during the Motion for Adjournment, upon which, you directed me to table a list of the employees of 2013, 2014 and 2015.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, you will recall that earlier on, in the sittings of this House, a few weeks ago, I tabled a list here of how people have been employed in the public service. The list was rejected and returned to me because it was not signed and did not have a heading showing that it was a Government document. Upon that directive, I proceeded and wrote to the Clerk of the Senate to provide me with the authentic list of those employees. The Clerk responded by giving me a letter which I tabled in the House yesterday.

After the directives by the Temporary Speaker, Sen. (Dr.) Machage, I followed up that letter that the Clerk of the Senate had given me with another letter, requesting him to furnish me with those details before 2.30 p.m. today. I am pleased to give you a letter dated, today, 30th April, 2015 and signed by the Clerk of the Senate, Mr. Nyegenye, in which he requests me to allow the Parliamentary Service Commission to give him that list, for me to be able to table it.

I wish to table the letter.

I am sorry, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Sen. Hassan was justifiably, I believe, emotional in his response and we listened to him in total silence. I want to urge my colleagues that two wrongs do not make a right.

Our continued escalation of this matter in the full glare of the country does not mitigate any wrong that may have been done. If anything, we are inflaming and raising passions. We are actually inciting even those who did not hear the speech to start thinking differently.

Many of us have been wronged many times and sometimes we let it pass for the good of everything. I want to implore our colleagues who feel strongly and offended that we have a different way of dealing with this matter than in the full glare of the country on a matter that can have far-reaching and unhelpful negative consequences that would hurt everybody. I urge your indulgence, hon. colleagues, because we are all very senior citizens and legislators in this country - However strongly we feel, there are times when we feel that it is easier and better to let go than continue rubbing each other, because it does not help us or the country.

Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, it is now your turn. I am not going to keep this open forever.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise to substantiate the statement that I made during the Motion for Adjournment, upon which, you directed me to table a list of the employees of 2013, 2014 and 2015.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, you will recall that earlier on, in the sittings of this House, a few weeks ago, I tabled a list here of how people have been employed in the public service. The list was rejected and returned to me because it was not signed and did not have a heading showing that it was a Government document. Upon that directive, I proceeded and wrote to the Clerk of the Senate to provide me with the authentic list of those employees. The Clerk responded by giving me a letter which I tabled in the House yesterday.

After the directives by the Temporary Speaker, Sen. (Dr.) Machage, I followed up that letter that the Clerk of the Senate had given me with another letter, requesting him to furnish me with those details before 2.30 p.m. today. I am pleased to give you a letter dated, today, 30th April, 2015 and signed by the Clerk of the Senate, Mr. Nyegenye, in which he requests me to allow the Parliamentary Service Commission to give him that list, for me to be able to table it.

I wish to table the letter.

I will allow everybody to say what they have to say today, but you have to say it correctly. Sen. Khalwale, on Tuesday you made the statement that you made and you were challenged by

Sen. Kagwe, I have made a ruling. I do not know whether I am going to open that issue.

You do not agree with me that even law is a science?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, as I have demonstrated through the two letters that I have written, I want to appeal to you to join me in my understanding of the hierarchy of laws. The Constitution of Kenya provides in Article 35---

Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, I know Article 35 and Standing Order No.94, I understand all that. The point I am making is that, you stood from where you are standing now and said that you have that list, I challenged you and you said that you will table it. This is in fairness to the House and to the Standing Orders because you cannot stand in the House and say that you have evidence, and then say that you are going to look for that evidence. You either have it, suspect you have it or you do not. The reason we are having all these exchanges now is because you undertook to table a list which you have not. My direction was that you either table it or withdraw and apologize. That is the Statement I made from where I am seated.

I am not in the least imputing any ill motive on Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, but I am saying that everybody must be responsible for their Statements because if you had that list that day or you have it today, all I need is to authenticate whether it is the correct list or not. If you do not have it, then in fairness to your colleagues and to the House, then you must withdraw and apologize. To me, that is the only window, because even the 48 hours that you were given by Sen. (Dr.) Machage yesterday are over. Your undertaking was not to produce a letter seeking information, but to produce and table a list. So, unless you can do that Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, I am afraid you will have to withdraw and apologize as regards that specific aspect of the list.

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Sen. Kagwe, I have made a ruling. I do not know whether I am going to open that issue.

Order! Can Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale finish?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir that is for another day.

So be it.

Order! Can Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale finish?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, because I was not misleading the House, I am glad to remember that even the other list where I have imagined all the appointments in the Public Service was rejected when I attempted to table it. So, I did not want to do that I again and this is why I went the official way. Having said that, I hope that in the coming days I will create an opportunity with the permission of the Speaker to table this list. For now, with those constraints, I wish to withdraw and apologize to you.

Thank you, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale. That brings a close to the issue. Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale is not able to table the list that he said he would and, pursuant to the ruling that I made, he has withdrawn and apologized. That brings the debate to a close.

Next Order!

Proceed,

Sen. Billow, do you have the Statement ready? It was supposed to be given today.

Proceed, Sen. Billow. Can you give Sen. Billow the microphone?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have discussed with the Senator for Kiambu. I will table the Statement next week, but we have agreed on two actions that we are taking as a Committee. One, our Committee will on Monday visit Kiambu County. We will liaise with him because one of the requests he made is for us to visit.

Secondly, we, as the Committee, are directing that the County Government of Kiambu suspends the application of that law, the Finance Act of 2014, until this Committee is satisfied that it meets the requirements of the Constitution. On Monday, we will be in Kiambu and we will address that issue.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, just before we went on recess, I sought a Statement from the Chairperson of the Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget on the situation in Kiambu County pertaining to the Finance Bill which increased three-fold the charges and levies in the County. The Chairperson had promised to give an

answer on Tuesday upon commencement of the House. As of now, I have not got an answer and I seek your assistance on the same.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I did not say that the directive is coming from the National Treasury. As a House, the position is this: Under Section 161 of the Public Finance Management (PFM) Act, any Finance Act by a county government must be forwarded to the Treasury so that it complies with Article 207 in terms of the economic interests, business environment and so on and so forth, of the county. To an extent, that has not been complied with and there are questions on the legality of the Bill because of that.

As the Chairperson of the Committee, I am directing that they cannot implement that Bill until our Committee is satisfied that the Constitution has been complied with – this is the direction from the Senate.

Very well. Proceed, Sen. Hassan.

Very well, Sen. Billow.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, this is a follow up to what the Chairperson of the Committee on County Public Accounts and Investments has said. When we, as a Senate, suspended the funding to the four counties, it was pursuant to a provision of the Constitution where a resolution to that effect could be made by Parliament. My question to you is: What provision either of law, Standing Order or Constitution have you pursued to effect that kind of a drastic resolution?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, in the case of the suspension of the accounts of those four counties, which was pursuant to Article 192 of the Constitution, that request to suspend those accounts came to the County Public Accounts and Investments Committee, it was not from our Committee. There is need for that Committee to follow up with the Treasury and the Controller of Budget to find out why the resolution of the Senate was not complied with in that respect.

Sen. Okong’o is it on that point.

Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I think the most effective way for the Chairperson of the Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget is to address the people of Kiambu directly on that directive so that if that Bill is illegal---

Order! What is your point of order?

Order, Senator! If you listened to the Chairperson of the Committee, he said that he is pursuing the issue, he is visiting Kiambu on Monday and he will give an answer on Tuesday. So, may I request that we wait for Tuesday when we can then interrogate the Statement and you can say all the things that you wish to say about now? It is so ordered that the Statement be issued on Tuesday, next week.

Proceed, Chairperson of the Committee on Devolved Government, Sen. Murkomen. I think Sen. Wamatangi has abandoned it because I can see that he is leaving. Sen. Wamatangi, I thought you raised an issue on the relocation of the headquarters of Kiambu, but you do not want to pursue it now?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I was just going to consult with him, but I am interested in the issue.

Before he gives you an answer? Sen. Murkomen, what is the position? You were supposed to give an answer today.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we were meant as a Committee to visit Kiambu, but coincidentally, it happened that we had two consecutive conferences, one in Mombasa and the other one in Kisumu.

When will you issue the Statement?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we have consulted with the Senator and we hope to visit the County next week. If you can give us Tuesday, the week after, we can issue the Statement.

Is that okay, Sen. Wamatangi?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I was just going to consult with him, but I am interested in the issue.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, with your indulgence, could I request the Chairperson of the Committee on Devolved Government, since the Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget will be visiting Kiambu on Monday, could you find a way to bend so that we combine the visit and we can address the twin issues at the same time.

Well, those are logistics; I cannot deal with them. So, is Tuesday the other week okay with you? Whether or not, they will come the following week is another issue.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, that Tuesday maybe a bit far off. I would appreciate an earlier date.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the question of Kiambu headquarters has been pending for two years. An extra one week does not cause great harm.

Okay, give us the Statement on Tuesday, the other Tuesday not the coming one.

Proceed, Sen. Mositet.

Order, what are you seeking? I will not rely on a newspaper report.

Bw. Naibu Spika, ningependa kukuomba kama mwenyekiti na kama Naibu Spika ueleza Sen. Wamatangi kwamba jambo ambalo ameliweka kwa gazeti si nzuri. Anafaa kuwacha jambo hilo kwa sababu tulikuwa tumeongea mbeleni. Kuna njia ya kutatua mambo kama hayo. Alisema anataka kupeleka maombi---

Sen. Mositet, if you want to make a personal statement, there are procedures of doing so. If you want to seek a statement, there are also procedures of doing so. However, you cannot engage me in newspaper reports concerning boundaries. Issues concerning boundaries are very serious and must be brought here substantively. I advise that you either seek a statement or you come under the relevant Standing Order and make a statement and then we can proceed from that point.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I feel that your ruling is not very good with me. We are talking about an issue which is very important and which touches on the security of our people; both those represented by Sen. Wamatangi and those whom I represent. Some months before---

Order, I will not allow that. Sen. Mositet, if you want to discuss matters of security, you must take the proper route. That is a very serious issue. I do not want to start a debate which Sen. Wamatangi will make a reply on and everybody will also start talking about security at their borders. My advice to you is that you seek a statement. You should follow the Standing Orders and Rules of the House and bring that important issue. However, the route you have followed is completely out of order.

Asante, Bw. Naibu Spika. Nimesimama kwa sababu ya jambo ambalo linaguza kaunti yangu. Hili ni jambo la usalama. Kuna gazeti la Star ambalo limesema kwamba Sen. Wamatangi anawahamisha watu kutoka upande wa Limuru na kuwapeleka upande wangu wa Suswa. Naona hili ni jambo ambalo linaloweza kusababisha hatari kwa usalama.

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Is it on security? That matter is over.

Sen. Mositet, if you want to make a personal statement, there are procedures of doing so. If you want to seek a statement, there are also procedures of doing so. However, you cannot engage me in newspaper reports concerning boundaries. Issues concerning boundaries are very serious and must be brought here substantively. I advise that you either seek a statement or you come under the relevant Standing Order and make a statement and then we can proceed from that point.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I feel that your ruling is not very good with me. We are talking about an issue which is very important and which touches on the security of our people; both those represented by Sen. Wamatangi and those whom I represent. Some months before---

Order, I will not allow that. Sen. Mositet, if you want to discuss matters of security, you must take the proper route. That is a very serious issue. I do not want to start a debate which Sen. Wamatangi will make a reply on and everybody will also start talking about security at their borders. My advice to you is that you seek a statement. You should follow the Standing Orders and Rules of the House and bring that important issue. However, the route you have followed is completely out of order.

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Is it on security? That matter is over.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir. There are many ways of expressing an opinion. One of the ways of refusing to accept a Bill is to deny it quorum or vote. This Bill has been with us for some time now. I plead that we continue with the numbers that we have and let justice prevail instead of postponing it. Maybe, Members do not want to vote on this Bill.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir. Given the rate at which we are doing things, I think that we may not move very far. I suggest that in your discretion, you rule that we revert to the Roll Call Voting. That way, the public will know who is there to vote and who is not. In fact, when we had the Roll Call system, there was no shortage of quorum.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir. In my opinion, this is a very important vote that we are about to take. If we proceed, and lose it, then we might not have enough time to present it again. We can skip it and reconsider it on Tuesday after thorough whipping. The Temporary Chairperson (

Mr. Temporary Chairperson, Sir, pursuant to Standing Order No.139, I beg to move that the Committee of the Whole reports progress on its consideration of the Alcohol Drinks Control (Amendment) Bill (Senate Bill No.5 of 2014) and seeks leave to sit again tomorrow.

I would like to hear from the Whips. Sen. Elachi, please come to the Dispatch Box. (Sen. Elachi approached the Dispatch Box)

Madam Temporary Speaker, I beg to report progress; that the Committee of the Whole has considered the Alcoholic Drinks Control (Amendment) Bill (Senate Bill No.5 of 2014) and seeks leave to sit again tomorrow or the next sitting of the Senate.

Sen. Elachi seconded.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir. Did you hear what the Whip said? That some Members of this House may have decided to abscond this sitting because of their divergent beliefs on the content of the Bill? Is that not in itself a statement that they are not happy with the Bill? Therefore, why can we not proceed and clear up this matter and move on. We cannot deal with one Bill all the time. The Temporary Chairperson (

Madam Temporary Speaker, I expected that there would be a chance if someone wants to say something. I requested, but I was not given a chance.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I just wanted to draw your attention to the fact that the proposal by Sen. (Dr.) Machage and Sen. Sang has actually been reaffirmed by none other than the Whip. The Whip has said that she is disclosing that the people who do not partake of alcohol have boycotted voting on this Bill. So, we just have to make a decision and we move on. She can be allowed to repeat the statement, if I heard her correctly. The Temporary Chairperson (

Senator, there is a system that we are using here and your name is not reflecting anywhere. I have no other means of knowing that you have an intention to speak, unless you log in.

Do you wish to still speak?

Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, I was consulting and I know Senators who are seated here and they do not partake of alcohol, including Sen. Ongoro. There is also Sen. Fatuma Dullo. Let me rule so that we can move forward.

Unfortunately, we do not have the numbers. This is a very important Bill from the National Assembly. Let us not embarrass ourselves by the fact that we do not have numbers today. Even the subsequent Bills will require voting some day. The best thing to do is to proceed to report then the Speaker will give direction on the next two Bills. I think we will proceed and report progress.

I suggest that we report progress on Order No.9 and my suggestion will be that we proceed with Order No.10, come back to the Committee on the same Orders then voting will be put together for the three Bills at some day when it is appropriate. Let me consult. That being my considered opinion, I will now call upon the Mover.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I beg to report progress; that the Committee of the Whole has considered the Alcoholic Drinks Control (Amendment) Bill (Senate Bill No.5 of 2014) and seeks leave to sit again tomorrow or the next sitting of the Senate.

Sen. Elachi seconded.

On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker.

I am on my feet, what is out of order?

Madam Temporary Speaker, I expected that there would be a chance if someone wants to say something. I requested, but I was not given a chance.

Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, I stand to support that amendment and for the benefit of the House, I, as the sponsor of the Bill had written in the Bill that the body to run the affairs of the potato industry to be known as “The National Potato Council.” However, we realised somewhere along the way that there is an organization called “The National Potato Council of Kenya” and because of the name, I had actually thought it is an official body. But later on when seeking the views of the Ministry of Agriculture, we realised that this is actually a private company. So, this amendment is quite in order and the name proposed by the committee, “Potato Board of Kenya” is quite in order and I support.

The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Murkomen) : Now that there is no other intervention, I will put the question at the end. Clause 5

The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Murkomen) : Before I propose the question, I have a suggestion for you, if it may help you move on faster, for you to just say that Clause 5 be amended as indicated in the Order Paper because we have the Order Paper, then you give a brief justification. You do not need to re-read the proposed amendment. I hope you get me, Chairman?

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir. I beg to move:- THAT, Clause 5 of the Bill be amended by-

There being no further requests to speak to this, I now put the question.

- THAT, Clause 3 of the Bill be amended by deleting paragraph (f) . The amendment to Clause 3 seeks to remedy the contradiction that exists between paragraphs (a) and (f) . While paragraph (a) provides that the object and purpose of the Bill is to regulate various processes in the potato industry, paragraph (f) provides that the object and purpose of the Bill is to introduce self-regulation across the industry which is not the case. Hence, the committee proposes to delete paragraph (f) in order to correct the anomaly. (Question of the amendment proposed) The Temporary Chairperson (

Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, I also support the amendments. In fact, I feel very happy because we are moving in the right direction in respect to this particular industry and the fact that we are putting in place a proper structure that will help streamline operations in this industry which has been in absolute chaos in the past.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir. The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Murkomen) : There being no other contributor, let us move on. I propose that the Division be at the end.

Next Clause. Mr. Chairman, please, give brief explanations.

Clause 6

Division will be at the end.

Clause 4

- THAT, Clause 4 of the Bill be amended-

- THAT, Clause 8 of the Bill be amended in the introductory clause by deleting the word “Council” and substituting therefor the word “Board”.

This is for the same reason that it is a consequential amendment.

The Temporary Chairperson

(Sen. Murkomen)

: The Division will be at the end. Clause 9

- THAT, the Bill be amended by deleting Clause 9 and substituting therefor the following new clause-

(Question of the amendment proposed) Clause 10

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir. I beg to move:- THAT, Clause 5 of the Bill be amended by-

- THAT, Clause 11 of the Bill be amended-

Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir. I stand to support that amendment. The Bill, as it was constituted had a council and also took account what was then known as the main potato producing and consuming counties; the views of the committee are quite in order and I support. Let me also inform the House that, this is one of the Bills which had a lot of interest during the public hearings and many views were taken into account by the Committee, coming from the various sectors, be it the research institutions, farmers and others. Most of these amendments came out of the very many views. Most important of all were the views given by the Government itself through the officers of the Ministry of Agriculture who even came up with the board from 15 to nine members. With those sentiments, I beg to support. Thank you. The Temporary Chairperson (

Let us be brief.

Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, I am also in agreement with the amendments being made. However, I have a small problem with reference to Clauses in this amendment. For example, it will be difficult to refer to portions of this Bill if it becomes an Act. There is a Clause which states that, “The Board shall comprise of ---. Then, there is (a) , (b) , (c) (d) up to (g) . Next to it, there is also the nomenclature (a) , (b) ,

- THAT, the Bill be amended by deleting Clause 16 and substituting therefor the following new clause-

Inspectorate Service and disseminate the information for general reference by potato farmers. Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, the amendment on Clause 16 seeks to impose a specific obligation on the Board to obtain the necessary data on licensed seed producers and merchants. As currently phrased in the Bill, it will appear that the process of obtaining the data is to be carried out by a third party and not the Board.

Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, the amendment also seeks to ensure that the provision reflects the new name of the Board.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir. (Question of the amendment proposed) The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Murkomen): The Division will be at the end. Clause 17

- THAT, Clause 17 of the Bill be amended-

- THAT, Clause 19 be amended –

- THAT, Clause 7 of the Bill be amended-

- THAT, Clause 8 of the Bill be amended in the introductory clause by deleting the word “Council” and substituting therefor the word “Board”. This is for the same reason that it is a consequential amendment. (Question of the amendment proposed) The Temporary Chairperson (

The Division will be at the end. Clause 9

Mr. Temporary Chairperson, Sir, I was going to support that particular amendment and say that I am aware that in some counties the potato industry is the lifeline of many of our citizens. The fact that we are giving them an opportunity to form committees within the counties and address issues relating to potato farming and the challenges is an important provision.

I feel strongly that I should express these words in support.

(Question of the amendment proposed) Clause 10

Mr. Temporary Chairperson, Sir, first of all, give me a chance to convince the Vice-Chair that there is an omission. This is because what we are doing is to get committees for the potato industry in all the counties. By the way, the producing counties are 34 at the moment, but they could be more but when it comes to urban situations like in Nairobi or Mombasa, the fraternity heavily involves traders and association of caterers.

I wish to move an amendment in Clause 19 (c) , so that the third line under (3) reads:-

“shall consist of three persons representing association of caterers and processors.”

- THAT, Clause 11 of the Bill be amended-

Mr. Temporary Chairperson, Sir, it is a further amendment to the already moved amendment. In fact, we had agreed on it. When you are in an urban city like Nairobi in the association of hotel keepers and general catering industry, they are the main consumers. We do not want to leave them out in this committee which is in the county.

Mr. Temporary Chairperson, Sir, if you permit me now, I can propose my amendment to the amendment.

The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Murkomen) : Eng. Karue, you are too late. If you needed to move that amendment, you should have brought it for approval.

Mr. Temporary Chairperson, Sir, I have just noticed that it had been left out. In fact, I think the Vice-Chair also said it. Could you use your discretion so that we can insert it, because in future we shall still have to include it somehow?

The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Murkomen) : Do you have the amendment with you?

- THAT, Clause 12 be amended

Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, I just want to clarify a small matter. Whereas this Clause is in relation to the change of name, in (b) (ii) , it is good to explain that we had suggested that the Board sets a milestone as to when it will achieve 50 per cent of the usage of certified seed which the Committee, in its wisdom, thought it is not a good idea. Nonetheless, I support. Clauses 13, 14 and 15 (Question that Clauses 13, 14 and 15 be part of the Bill proposed) The Temporary Chairperson (

Mr. Temporary Chairperson, Sir, I have been listening and think that the point being pursued by Sen. (Eng.) Muriuki is very valid. Caterers are a very critical part of industry, because they are the main consumers. I would support Sen. Muriuki in ensuring that they are specifically included and provided for in this law.

The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Murkomen) : You are proposing an amendment in Clause 19 (3) . So, it is a further amendment to the amendment.

Proceed and move the amendment since I have approved it.

Mr. Temporary Chairperson, Sir, I beg to move that Clause 19 be further amended by inserting the words “of caterers and” in (3) .

It will now read as follows:- “In the case of the capital city or an urban county in which there are no potato farmers, the membership to the county committee specified under sub- clause (2) (b) shall instead consist of three persons representing association of caterers and processors of potato products nominated by the Council of Governors.” The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Murkomen) : What is the justification?

- THAT, the Bill be amended by deleting Clause 16 and substituting therefor the following new clause-

Inspectorate Service and disseminate the information for general reference by potato farmers. Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, the amendment on Clause 16 seeks to impose a specific obligation on the Board to obtain the necessary data on licensed seed producers and merchants. As currently phrased in the Bill, it will appear that the process of obtaining the data is to be carried out by a third party and not the Board.Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, the amendment also seeks to ensure that the provision reflects the new name of the Board.Thank you, Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir. (Question of the amendment proposed) The Temporary Chairperson (

the Bill and later the discussion in the Committee and also the input by the people who came in the public hearing, that it is necessary to have a county committee even where we do not have potato growing. In that case then, the main stakeholders in the urban situation would be the traders and the brokers. More importantly, the consumers are in two classes; the individual consumer in their homes and the bulky consumers in the hotels. They have their association and interest.

As a matter of fact, the people who guide the type and the grading of the potato are the caterers. So, it is very important to make sure that they are included in this committee in the urban situation.

The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Murkomen): Thank you, Sen. Karue (Question of the amendment proposed) At the end when we will be voting, there will be two questions. That is one of the further amendments and the one that is proposed by the Committee.

We will put the question of that amendment at the end. When we will be doing Division, there will be two amendments; one for further amendment and the one proposed by the Committee. Clause 20

The Division will be at the end. Clause 17

- THAT, Clause 20 of the Bill be amended-

- THAT, Clause 17 of the Bill be amended-

- THAT, Clause 19 be amended –

out a list of counties in the First and Second Schedules of major potato producing and consuming counties in which the committees will be established.The proposed amendment will ensure that the committee is only established in the area where it is necessary to establish one. It also does away with the disadvantage that would arise of setting out, in the Bill, the major potato producing and consuming counties in which the committees will be established. This is owing to the fact that the status of a county as a major potato producing or consuming county may change with time. This would, therefore, necessitate an amendment to the Act to reflect the change. The best option would, therefore, be to leave it to the discretion of the Board, in consultation with the Council of County Governors, which would be best placed to advise given the fact that agriculture is now devolved.Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, the amendment to sub-clause 2 seeks to reduce the number of members to the county potato committee from ten to eight members and to allow for representation in the committee of persons representing potato farmers and the County Executive Committee (CEC) Member responsible for trade. This would ensure that the major players in the potato industry within a county are adequately represented in the committee, hence, act as a way of ensuring that their interests are catered.The amendment to sub-clause (3) seeks to ensure that where the board determines that it would be necessary to establish a county potato committee in an urban county, in which there are no potato farmers, but other players and stakeholders in the potato industry are found, then the membership of the committee consists of persons nominated by an association of caterers and processors found within the county in order to represent the interests of such stakeholders in the board.The amendments to sub-clauses (5), (8) and (9) are consequential amendments to reflect the name.(Question of the amendment proposed) The Temporary Chairperson (

The Division will come at the end.I am sorry, Sen. Obure. You can combine your thoughts in the next clause. Clause 20

- THAT clause 20 of the Bill be amended-

(Question of the amendment proposed)

Mr. Temporary Chairperson, Sir, I was going to support that particular amendment and say that I am aware that in some counties the potato industry is the lifeline of many of our citizens. The fact that we are giving them an opportunity to form committees within the counties and address issues relating to potato farming and the challenges is an important provision.

I feel strongly that I should express these words in support.

-

THAT, Clause 26 of the Bill be amended-

Order, Sen. Karue! Let me consult. (The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Murkomen) consulted with the Clerk-at-the-Table) Vice-Chairperson of the Committee before I come to Eng. Karue.

Mr. Temporary Chairperson, Sir, it may not have specifically indicated the caterers, but if you look at Clause 19 (2) (c) , it reads:- “Two persons representing the potato trading fraternity including brokers and agents.” Would it not include caterers? The Temporary Chairperson (

- THAT, Clause 29 of the Bill be amended-

Sen. (Eng.) Karue, you can move your amendment if you are not convinced by the Vice-Chair and then when we come to Division, we will do two divisions.

Mr. Temporary Chairperson, Sir, first of all, give me a chance to convince the Vice-Chair that there is an omission. This is because what we are doing is to get committees for the potato industry in all the counties. By the way, the producing counties are 34 at the moment, but they could be more but when it comes to urban situations like in Nairobi or Mombasa, the fraternity heavily involves traders and association of caterers.

I wish to move an amendment in Clause 19 (c) , so that the third line under (3) reads:-

“shall consist of three persons representing association of caterers and processors.”

- THAT, Clause 30 of the Bill be amended by deleting the word “Council” appearing immediately after the words “year of the” and substituting therefor the word “Board”.

The Temporary Chairperson

(Sen. Murkomen)

: The Division will be at the end. Clause 31

- THAT, Clause 31 of the Bill be amended-

Mr. Temporary Chairperson, Sir, it is a further amendment to the already moved amendment. In fact, we had agreed on it. When you are in an urban city like Nairobi in the association of hotel keepers and general catering industry, they are the main consumers. We do not want to leave them out in this committee which is in the county. Mr. Temporary Chairperson, Sir, if you permit me now, I can propose my amendment to the amendment. The Temporary Chairperson (

Eng. Karue, you are too late. If you needed to move that amendment, you should have brought it for approval.

- THAT, Clause 33 of the Bill be amended-

- THAT, Clause 34 of the Bill be amended in subclause (1) -

Mr. Temporary Chairperson, Sir, I will write it down and bring it to you.

Mr. Temporary Chairperson, Sir, while the Committee may not have used the name “caterers,” it is implied in one way or another. The amendment in Clause 19 (b) (2) (d) reads:-

“One person representing consumer organizations in the county appointed by the county executive committee members.” Consumers include the caterers.

- THAT, Clause 35 of the Bill be amended-

The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Murkomen): There are no amendments on these Clauses. Division will be at the end. First Schedule

Mr. Temporary Chairperson, Sir, I beg to move that Clause 19 be further amended by inserting the words “of caterers and” in (3) . It will now read as follows:- “In the case of the capital city or an urban county in which there are no potato farmers, the membership to the county committee specified under sub- clause (2) (b) shall instead consist of three persons representing association of caterers and processors of potato products nominated by the Council of Governors.” The Temporary Chairperson (

What is the justification?

Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, the essence here was that we have a national body which is catering for the potato industry in various ways, which I am not going to repeat, but we also felt that it was important both in the formulation of

the Bill and later the discussion in the Committee and also the input by the people who came in the public hearing, that it is necessary to have a county committee even where we do not have potato growing. In that case then, the main stakeholders in the urban situation would be the traders and the brokers. More importantly, the consumers are in two classes; the individual consumer in their homes and the bulky consumers in the hotels. They have their association and interest.As a matter of fact, the people who guide the type and the grading of the potato are the caterers. So, it is very important to make sure that they are included in this committee in the urban situation.The Temporary Chairperson (

Clause 2

Thank you, Sen. Karue (Question of the amendment proposed) At the end when we will be voting, there will be two questions. That is one of the further amendments and the one that is proposed by the Committee.We will put the question of that amendment at the end. When we will be doing Division, there will be two amendments; one for further amendment and the one proposed by the Committee. Clause 20

- THAT, Clause 2 of the Bill be amended by-

- THAT, Clause 20 of the Bill be amended-

- THAT, the Bill be amended by deleting the Long Title and substituting therefore the following new title – AN ACT of Parliament to establish the Potato Board of Kenya, to enhance productivity and income of potato farmers; to set standards to regulate the industry; and for connected purposes. The amendment to the Long Title seeks to ensure that it reflects the objects and purpose of the Bill accurately, particularly in view of the amendments that have been proposed to the Bill. While the Bill will, if implemented, ensure that quality and quantity in potato production is improved, this is a secondary outcome that would be achieved through regulation and ensuring that the standards set are adhered to. Hence the principal aim of the Bill will be in enhancing productivity and therefore income to potato farmers.

The Temporary Chairperson

(Sen. Murkomen)

: Division on this will be at the end.

Yes, but in his moving— You are very correct. Clause 21

- THAT, Clause 21 of the Bill be amended-

- THAT, pursuant to Standing Order No. 139, the Committee of the Whole reports progress on its consideration of the Potato Produce and Marketing Bill (Senate Bill No. 28 of 2014) , and seeks leave to sit again tomorrow.

Proceed, Chairperson.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I beg to report progress; that the Committee of the Whole has considered the Potato Produce and Marketing Bill (Senate Bill No. 28 of 2014) , and seeks leave to sit again tomorrow or the next sitting of the House.

- THAT, Clause 23 of the Bill be amended in subclause (1) by deleting the words “one hundred and ten” appearing immediately after the words “potatoes shall be” and substituting therefor the word “fifty”. Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, the amendment to sub-clause one seeks to reduce the standard weight for a bag or package of potatoes from ten kilograms as set out in the Bill to 50 kilogrammes in order to align the provision to the international standards of packaging such wares (Question of the amendment proposed) The Temporary Chairperson (

Where is the seconder? Sen. Obure? There is one intervention from Sen. (Prof.) Anyang’-Nyong’o.

Madam Temporary Speaker, just some clarification. Is the Potato Produce and Marketing Bill, Senate Bill No. 28 or No. 22? In my Order Paper, it is listed as Bill No. 22 of 2014. I do not know what other Order Papers contain.

- THAT Clause 24 of the Bill be amended in subclause

(1)

by deleting the word “Council” appearing at the end of the subclause and substituting therefor the word “Board” Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, this is a consequential amendment to reflect the new name of the Board.

Clause 25

Clause 26

Therefore, I will put the question.

Next Order!

- THAT, Clause 27 of the Bill be amended in subclause (1) by-

-

(Question of the amendment proposed) The Temporary Chairperson (

THAT, clause 4(1) of the Bill be amended in paragraph (e) by deleting the number “10” appearing immediately after the words “under section” and substituting therefor the number “11”. (Question of the amendment proposed) The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Murkomen): The Division will be at the end.

- Clause 5

THAT, Clause 5 of the Bill be amended by inserting the following new paragraph immediately after paragraph

(h)

–

(ha)

determine appeals from the county committee submitted to it under section 39;

The Temporary Chairperson

(Sen. Murkomen)

: Did I see a further amendment by Sen. Mutahi Kagwe? He is not here. Therefore, that amendment is dropped.

Clause 6

The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Murkomen) : There is no amendment on that one. Clause 7

- THAT, Clause 7 of the Bill be amended –

No. 22 of 2011

- THAT, clause 10 of the Bill be amended in subclause

(2)

by inserting the phrase “and such other matter related to the conduct of fundraising appeals that the National Committee shall consider necessary” immediately after the words “fundraising activities”.

The Temporary Chairperson

(Sen. Murkomen)

: The Division will be at the end. Clauses 11and 12

- THAT, Clause 33 of the Bill be amended-

- THAT, Clause 34 of the Bill be amended in subclause (1) -

Again, this is a consequential amendment to reflect the new name of the Board. (Question of the amendment proposed) The Temporary Chairperson (

Hon Senators, Division on this clause will be at the end. Clause 35

- THAT, Clause 35 of the Bill be amended-

The Temporary Chairperson (

There are no amendments on these Clauses. Division will be at the end. First Schedule

- THAT, the Bill be amended by deleting the First Schedule Mr. Temporary Chairperson, Sir, the deletion of the First Schedule reflects the amendments made to Clause 5 of the Bill, which has done away with the need for this Schedule (Question of the amendment proposed) The Temporary Chairperson (

Division on this will be at the end. Second Schedule

- THAT, the Bill be amended by deleting the Second Schedule. The deletion of the Second Schedule reflects the amendments made to Clause 5 of the Bill which has done away with the need for this Schedule. (Question of the amendment proposed) The Temporary Chairperson (

Division will be at the end. Third Schedule

- THAT, the Third Schedule be amended-

Clause 2

- THAT, Clause 2 of the Bill be amended by-

- THAT, the Bill be amended by deleting the Long Title and substituting therefore the following new title – AN ACT of Parliament to establish the Potato Board of Kenya, to enhance productivity and income of potato farmers; to set standards to regulate the industry; and for connected purposes. The amendment to the Long Title seeks to ensure that it reflects the objects and purpose of the Bill accurately, particularly in view of the amendments that have been proposed to the Bill. While the Bill will, if implemented, ensure that quality and quantity in potato production is improved, this is a secondary outcome that would be achieved through regulation and ensuring that the standards set are adhered to. Hence the principal aim of the Bill will be in enhancing productivity and therefore income to potato farmers. (Question of the amendment proposed) The Temporary Chairperson (

Clause 48

Division on this will be at the end.

Clause 1

- THAT, Clause 1 of the Bill be amended by deleting the words “sixty” appearing immediately after the words “on the expiry of” and substituting therefor the word “ninety”. (Question of the amendment proposed) The Temporary Chairperson (

Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, we have a new Clause in 51. Sen. Kagwe had given notice of giving another amendment which is not here. However, I thought that the amendment in Clause 51 which was already discussed by the Committee should stay, that is, adding a new amendment 51 (A) which says :-

“Misappropriation 51A. A person who applies the funds of funds. received pursuant to a fundraising appeal for a purpose other than which for which the appeal was held commits an offence.” The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Murkomen) : That is an entirely new clause. We will come to that. We will propose the question at some point.

There are no amendments to the Clauses 52 and 53. Therefore, we will vote on them at the end. Clauses 52 and 53

Clause 54

The Temporary Chairperson

(Sen. Murkomen)

: The amendment which was proposed by Sen. Kagwe is now dropped since there is no one to move it.

There being no other amendment, I propose that Clause 54 be part of the Bill. Division will be at the end.

The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Murkomen) : There are no amendments to Clauses 55, 56, 57 and 58. Therefore, we will vote on them at the end.

Clauses 55, 56, 57 and 58

(Question, that Clauses 55, 56, 57, and 58 be part of the Bill, proposed) Clause 59

The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Murkomen): The amendment which was proposed by Sen. Kagwe is now dropped since there is no one to move it.

(Proposed amendment by Sen. Kagwe dropped) There being no other amendment, I propose that Clause 59 be part of the Bill. Division will be at the end.

Proceed, Chairperson.

We have not come to them yet. This is the schedule.

The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Murkomen) : Which can only be retained if someone moves them.

Chair, can you confirm that when we reach there you will move them?

Madam Temporary Speaker, I beg to move that the House do agree with the Committee in the said Report.

The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Murkomen): Okay. So, we move to new clauses? New Clause 25(A)

The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Murkomen): There is an amendment by Sen. Kagwe? If you are in agreement, we just move that the clause as amended by Sen. Kagwe be part of the Bill and then we proceed.

I do not have it with me here. Is it 25 (A) or 55 (A) ? In my paper it is 25 (A) and not 55 (A)

The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Murkomen) : It is 25 (A) .

- THAT, the Bill be amended by inserting the following new clause immediately after Clause 25 –

Member of parliament Not to participate in or Conduct fundraising appeal

-

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir. This is a procedural matter and it has come severally in this House. When we say a new Clause will be read a Second Time, which procedurally we do not end up doing, in which case the meaning of it does not seem to make sense. So, the Mover is saying that it be part of the Bill and supposedly we had perused through it and agreed but if he says it be read a Second Time, that opportunity never comes, so it should not be there.

The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Murkomen) : It is being read a Second Time now. Anyone who wants to make a proposal can do it, then when we come to Division, these sections will come back for the Committee of the Whole.

THAT, clause 4(1) of the Bill be amended in paragraph (e) by deleting the number “10” appearing immediately after the words “under section” and substituting therefor the number “11”. (Question of the amendment proposed) The Temporary Chairperson (

Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, on behalf of Sen. Kagwe, I beg to move:-

THAT, the Bill be amended by inserting the following new clause immediately after clause 51— Misappropriation of funds.

51A. A person who applies the funds received pursuant to a fundraising appeal for a purpose other than that for which the appeal was held commits an offence.

Question of the New Clause 51A proposed)

The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Murkomen) : If you do not mind, Chair, can you approach the seat of the Chair? Schedule

The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Murkomen) : Mover, there is an amendment proposed by Sen. Kagwe there.

Yes, Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir. I beg to move:-

THAT, the Bill be amended in the Schedule -

- Clause 5 THAT, Clause 5 of the Bill be amended by inserting the following new paragraph immediately after paragraph (h) – (ha) determine appeals from the county committee submitted to it under section 39; (Question of the amendment proposed) The Temporary Chairperson (

Did I see a further amendment by Sen. Mutahi Kagwe? He is not here. Therefore, that amendment is dropped. (Proposed amendment by Sen. Kagwe dropped) Clause 6 (Question that Clause 6 be part of the Bill proposed) The Temporary Chairperson (

There is no amendment on that one. Clause 7

- THAT, Clause 7 of the Bill be amended –

Madam Temporary Speaker, I beg to report progress; that the Committee of the whole has considered the Public Fundraising and Appeals Bill (Senate Bill No. 28 of 2014) and seeks leave to sit again tomorrow subject, to recommital of clauses with proposed amendments by Sen. Kagwe.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I beg to move that the House do agree with the Committee in the said report.

Sen. Obure seconded

- THAT, clause 10 of the Bill be amended in subclause (2) by inserting the phrase “and such other matter related to the conduct of fundraising appeals that the National Committee shall consider necessary” immediately after the words “fundraising activities”. (Question of the amendment proposed) The Temporary Chairperson (

The Division will be at the end. Clauses 11and 12 (Question, that Clauses 11and 12 be part of the Bill proposed)

(Proposed amendment by Sen. Kagwe dropped) (Question, that Clause 13 be part of the Bill proposed) Clause 14The Temporary Chairperson (

Sen. Elachi is not in the House.

There was an amendment by Sen. Mutahi Kagwe to Clause 14(Question, that Clause 14 be part of the Bill proposed) Clauses 15, 16 and 17(Question that Clauses 15, 16 and 17 be part of the Bill proposed) The Temporary Chairperson (

The Division will be at the end. Clause 18

Sen. Leshore is not in the House.

Hon. Senators, there being no other business, it is now time to adjourn the Senate. Therefore, the House stands adjourned to Tuesday, 5th May, 2015 at 2.30 p.m.

The Senate rose at 5.46 p.m.

There are no amendments on that and the Division will be at the end. Clause 23The Temporary Chairperson (

There was an amendment by Sen. Beth Mugo, but it has been withdrawn.(Question, that Clause 23 be part of the Bill proposed) Clause 24The Temporary Chairperson (

Since Sen. Mugo withdrew her amendment to Clause 24, therefore, no amendment to this clause. Division will be at the end.

- THAT, Clause 25 of the Bill be amended –

Clause 26

- THAT, Clause 26 of the Bill be amended –

- THAT, Clause 27 of the Bill be amended in subclause (3) by inserting the word “conditions” immediately after the words “impose such”. This is just for clarity. The words “imposing such” must be followed by a specific word “conditions.” (Question of the amendment proposed) Clause 28 The Temporary Chairperson (

There are no amendments to Clause 28. Therefore, we will vote on it at the end. (Question, that Clause 28 be part of the Bill, proposed) Clause 29

- THAT, clause 29 of the Bill be amended –

(Question of the amendment proposed) The Temporary Chairperson (

There being no other amendment, since the further amendment by Sen. Kagwe has been dropped, that means that the Division will be at the end.(Proposed further amendment by

There are no amendments to these Clauses 30 and 31. Therefore, we will vote on them at the end. Clauses 30 and 31

- THAT, clause 33 of the Bill be amended by inserting the following new subclause immediately after subclause (3) –

(Proposed further amendment by Sen. Kagwe dropped) Clause 34The Temporary Chairperson (

There are no amendments to Clause 34. Therefore, we will vote on it at the end.

- THAT, clause 35 of the Bill be amended by inserting the following new paragraph immediately after paragraph (d) –

Clause 38

- THAT, clause 45 (1) of the Bill be amended by inserting the following new paragraph immediately after paragraph (a) – (aa) the name, number and address of the bank into which the monies raised in relation to the fundraising appeal were deposited; The amendment simply brings into effect the fact that the records of the funds raised should include the name, number and address of the bank into which the monies raised in relation to fundraising appeal were deposited as part of the records (Question of the amendment proposed) The Temporary Chairperson (

There being no further amendment, the Division will be at the end. There are no amendments to Clauses 46 and 47. Therefore, we will vote on them at the end. Clauses 46 and 47 (Question, that Clauses 46 and 47 be part of the Bill proposed)

Clause 48

- THAT, Clause 48 of the Bill be amended in subclause (1) by deleting the words “three months” appearing immediately after the words “section 46 within” and substituting therefor the words “thirty days”; The amendment is to simply substitute the word “three months” limit and refers to the provisions in section 46, which makes the standard thirty days apply to this section too. (Question of the amendment proposed) The Temporary Chairperson (

The amendment which was proposed by Sen. Kagwe is now dropped for there is no one to move it. (Proposed further amendment by Sen. Kagwe dropped) The Division will be at the end. Clause 49

- THAT, clause 49 of the Bill be amended by inserting the following new subclause immediately after subclause (2) –

(Question, that Clause 50 be part of the Bill proposed) Clause 51The Temporary Chairperson (

The amendment which was proposed by Sen. Kagwe is now dropped because there is no one to move it.(Proposed amendment by Sen. Kagwe dropped)

Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, we have a new Clause in 51. Sen. Kagwe had given notice of giving another amendment which is not here. However, I thought that the amendment in Clause 51 which was already discussed by the Committee should stay, that is, adding a new amendment 51 (A) which says :- “Misappropriation 51A. A person who applies the funds of funds. received pursuant to a fundraising appeal for a purpose other than which for which the appeal was held commits an offence.” The Temporary Chairperson (

That is an entirely new clause. We will come to that. We will propose the question at some point. There are no amendments to the Clauses 52 and 53. Therefore, we will vote on them at the end. Clauses 52 and 53 (Question, that Clauses 52 and 53 be part of the Bill, proposed) Clause 54 The Temporary Chairperson (

The amendment which was proposed by Sen. Kagwe is now dropped since there is no one to move it. (Proposed amendment by Sen. Kagwe dropped) There being no other amendment, I propose that Clause 54 be part of the Bill. Division will be at the end. (Question, that Clause 54 be part of the Bill, proposed) The Temporary Chairperson (

There are no amendments to Clauses 55, 56, 57 and 58. Therefore, we will vote on them at the end.

Clauses 55, 56, 57 and 58(Question, that Clauses 55, 56, 57, and 58 be part of the Bill, proposed) Clause 59The Temporary Chairperson (

The amendment which was proposed by Sen. Kagwe is now dropped since there is no one to move it.(Proposed amendment by Sen. Kagwe dropped) There being no other amendment, I propose that Clause 59 be part of the Bill. Division will be at the end.

Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, I can easily move them but I need your permission. The Temporary Chairperson (

You did not seek it, it just came across my mind because all those amendment are very useful. Were these amendment that are fairly agreed?

Well, I know that at least the ones related to regulation of fundraising at the county level of government, I hope we can retain them. The Temporary Chairperson (

What do you mean? Which clause is that?

We have not come to them yet. This is the schedule. The Temporary Chairperson (

Which can only be retained if someone moves them. Chair, can you confirm that when we reach there you will move them?

Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, Yes, I will move them.

The Temporary Chairperson (

Okay. So, we move to new clauses? New Clause 25(A)The Temporary Chairperson (

There is an amendment by Sen. Kagwe? If you are in agreement, we just move that the clause as amended by Sen. Kagwe be part of the Bill and then we proceed.

I do not have it with me here. Is it 25 (A) or 55 (A) ? In my paper it is 25 (A) and not 55 (A) The Temporary Chairperson (

It is 25 (A) .

- THAT, the Bill be amended by inserting the following new clause immediately after Clause 25 –

Member of parliament Not to participate in or Conduct fundraising appeal

THAT, the Bill be amended by inserting the following new clause immediately after Clause 48 - Declaration of source of contribution.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir. This is a procedural matter and it has come severally in this House. When we say a new Clause will be read a Second Time, which procedurally we do not end up doing, in which case the meaning of it does not seem to make sense. So, the Mover is saying that it be part of the Bill and supposedly we had perused through it and agreed but if he says it be read a Second Time, that opportunity never comes, so it should not be there. The Temporary Chairperson (

It is being read a Second Time now. Anyone who wants to make a proposal can do it, then when we come to Division, these sections will come back for the Committee of the Whole.

I still have a quarrel with the terms “Second Reading” because once we do the Second Reading, there is no opportunity or a system where we shall then pick a particular clause because the person who reads the Bill is the Clerk. There is no opportunity where we shall take that particular clause and give the Clerk to read. So, I am saying that it does not seem to add up procedurally. The Temporary Chairperson (

I get what you are saying, that nomenclature and terminologies in the usual use of the word “Second Reading”, is something that we can pursue going forward.

Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, we have to agree on how to deal with a clause which is introduced to the House and whose amendment is totally new, subject to revisiting the Standing Orders. That is what is missing. The Temporary Chairperson (

Agreed, going forward that is a very good suggestion. Proceed. New Clause 51A The Temporary Chairperson (

This is an amendment by Sen. Kagwe. Sen. (Prof.) Anyang'-Nyong'o, can you move it on his behalf?

Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, on behalf of Sen. Kagwe, I beg to move:- THAT, the Bill be amended by inserting the following new clause immediately after clause 51— Misappropriation of funds. 51A. A person who applies the funds received pursuant to a fundraising appeal for a purpose other than that for which the appeal was held commits an offence. Question of the New Clause 51A proposed) (New Clause 51A read the First Time) (Question, that the new Clause 51A be read a Second Time proposed) (Question, that the new Clause 51A be read a Second Time put and agreed to) (The New Clause 51A was read a Second Time) (Question that the New Clause 51A be part of the Bill proposed) The Temporary Chairperson (

If you do not mind, Chair, can you approach the seat of the Chair? Schedule The Temporary Chairperson (

Mover, there is an amendment proposed by Sen. Kagwe there.

Yes, Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir. I beg to move:-

THAT, the Bill be amended in the Schedule -

- THAT, Clause 2 of the Bill be amended –

Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, pursuant to Standing Order No.139, I beg to move that the Committee of the Whole reports progress on its consideration of The Public Fundraising and Appeals Bill (Senate Bill No. 28 of 2014) and seeks leave to sit again tomorrow, subject to the recommital of clauses with proposed amendments by Sen. Kagwe.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I beg to report progress; that the Committee of the whole has considered the Public Fundraising and Appeals Bill (Senate Bill No. 28 of 2014) and seeks leave to sit again tomorrow subject, to recommital of clauses with proposed amendments by Sen. Kagwe.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I beg to move that the House do agree with the Committee in the said report.

Sen. Obure seconded

people with dementia; noting the need to enhance awareness on and provide better care for patients of dementia; the Senate directs the Standing Committee on Health to immediately initiate review of the existing legislation on health care in order to mainstream and enhance care for patients of dementia and further that the Committee submits a report to the House on the matter within ninety (90) days.

Sen. (Dr.) Machage is not in the House.

Sen. Elachi is not in the House.

National Headquarters providing overall coordination and that the resources allocated for the fight against HIV/AIDS be disbursed and managed at the County level.

Sen. Leshore is not in the House.

Hon. Senators, there being no other business, it is now time to adjourn the Senate. Therefore, the House stands adjourned to Tuesday, 5th May, 2015 at 2.30 p.m.

The Senate rose at 5.46 p.m.