Thursday, 29th July, 2021

Hon. Senators, I have a Communication to make.

As you are aware, the Annual Devolution Conference is one of the pivotal events for the devolution space that enables stakeholders to evaluate the performance of the national and county government institutions on policy, legislation, accountability, good governance and service delivery among others. The Senate continues to be a critical stakeholder in this discourse and its participation in the Conference cannot be gainsaid.

Hon. Senators, the 7th Annual Devolution Conference is scheduled to be held from 23rd to 26th August, 2021 at the Makueni Boys High School in Wote, Makueni County.

The theme of the Conference is Multilevel Governance for Climate Action. The overall objective is to strengthen sub-national governments to act on climate change and develop stronger mitigation capacities. The upcoming conference is particularly unique in that it is the last annual conference. From here on, the Devolution Conference will be held on a bi-annual basis from 2023.

As co-chair of the National Steering Committee, which coordinates the hosting of the event, I appointed Senators to the steering committee to assist in guiding and advising on the participation of the Senate in the Conference. The Committee comprises of Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr., who is also the host Senator; Sen. Moses Kajwang’ and Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Devolution and Intergovernmental Relations; Sen. Rose Nyamunga, a Member of the Speaker’s Panel and Sen. Victor Prengei.

Activities of the Committee are supported by an organizing Committee comprising of 13 members of staff.

Sen. (Dr.) Milgo, please take your seat.

Hon. Senators, the first Paper is by the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Finance and Budget. We will defer it for the moment.

Madam Deputy Speaker, I beg to lay the following Paper on the Table of the Senate today, 29th July 2021-

Report of the Standing Committee on Education on the Kenya Sign Language Bill (Senate Bills No. 5 of 2021) .

The next two reports are by the Chairperson Standing Committee on Labour and Social Welfare, Sen. Sakaja.

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I beg to lay the following Papers on the Table of the Senate, today, 29th July, 2021-

I see an intervention from Sen. Dullo. I guess it is on the fourth Paper, in which she asked a question.

Hon. Senators, using our Standing Orders, I will not allow more than 20 minutes, so Sen. Dullo, please, be very brief. I have seen two more Members who want to comment on something.

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I rise under Standing Order No.48 (4) regarding this report tabled by the Chairperson of the Committee on Labour and Social Welfare. I brought a Statement to this House on 12th October, 2020 regarding the

dismissal of 56 members of the Ewaso Ng’iro Development Authority (ENDA). I do not want to delve so much into the matter. I would, however, like to say that when we bring Statements to this House, we normally look for a remedy. That is why we bring Statements to the Floor of the House.

Secondly, the matter before the Committee is a heavy one because it concerns members of the public who were dismissed unprocedurally. Some of them were casuals for over 10 years. They were subjected to one year contracts and then they were dismissed on the basis that they were not qualified, but they were all qualified.

I am really happy with the investigation that was carried out by the Committee because I sat in all the proceedings of the Committee. Both ENDA and the Cabinet Secretary (CS) appeared. However, I have a few reservations as far as the recommendations are concerned, because it does not address the real issues why I brought that Statement to the Floor of the House. Most importantly were the people who were laid off by ENDA. Secondly, there was harassment by the Chief Executive Officer (CEO) and the executive.

Madam Deputy Speaker, let me say this. The Committee has commendably observed the employees at ENDA. In their observation, they were subjected to labour malpractices and injustices. The Committee observed that the workplace at ENDA is hostile and characterized by miscommunication, intimidation, discrimination and general mismanagement. That is basically what I brought to the Floor of the House. Thank you for that.

The Committee observed that employees were subjected to very long unending casual temporary employment, some as long as 10 years.

There is a point of order from Sen. (Eng.) Mahamud.

Madam Deputy Speaker, I do not intend to interrupt my good friend, Sen. Dullo, but a report has been tabled by the Committee. I do not see a Notice of Motion for debate on that report. Is it procedural for us to start debating a report which has been tabled and has not been moved as a Motion for the House to adopt or reject? Is it in order?

Sen. Dullo made reference to Standing Order No.48 (4) . If you read it, it says that the Speaker may allow the Senator who made the request for the Statement under Standing Order No.48 (1) - which is what was done - or any other Senator to make comments for not more than 20 minutes. That is why I said I will not allow any more than 20 minutes for any Statement, if you heard me. Yes, she is in order. I just want them to be brief, because 20 minutes is 20 minutes. Today is a very tough day.

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I will be very brief. The Committee observed that hiring promotions and transfers at ENDA has been undertaken based on ethnic favouritism, nepotism and cronyism. The Committee observed that eight employees were dismissed unprocedurally and unfairly.

Having looked at the observations, it is unfortunate that the recommendations have been given by the Committee after almost a year after investigations when these officers are home. Some of these people served that organization for over ten years. The

Committee has failed to make any concrete remedial recommendations in ensuring that the rights of those people were upheld, especially the ones who were laid off.

In the recommendations, where they did not find a solution, the matters were referred to the Ministry. The matter is referred back to the same Ministry that violated their rights under the Kenya National Commission on Human Rights (KNHCR) and the Geothermal Association of Kenya (GAK). These people have been before the Ministry, the board, and the Commission on Administrative Justice (CAJ), and it referred them back to the same Ministry. This means that the Senate has relegated its responsibility to a different entity where justice will be found.

Madam Deputy Speaker, again, the Committee unnecessarily duplicates functions of the Senate regarding this matter. The Senate has referred the matter to the Ministry. In the whole proceeding, you will see that there is intimidation and harassment of the staff by the CEO, using the Criminal Investigation Department (CID) and other institutions.

I have a case of a lady whose office has been locked as a result of intimidation. She was a finance officer. I can table the padlocks that had been put on her door by the executive from that institution. I will table them. Further, there is a lady, a Person with Disability (PwD), who is 58 years old, who, after appearing before the Committee, was interdicted having worked with the organization for all those years.

Madam Deputy Speaker, this is a House of justice. I am representing the people of Isiolo. This is the House that needs to address people whose rights have been violated. So, if we refer the matter back to the Ministry, it means that the Senate has relegated its responsibility. This is because promotions are based on tribalism, cronyism and nepotism.

I request the Committee to visit that institution to see what is happening and find a solution for the current situation.

I will stop at that. However, I feel that this matter needs to be addressed further. I am not satisfied. So, from practice, this House has a right to refer the matter back to the Committee or come up with the solutions. This is because these are Kenyans whose rights were violated. Right now, they are at home, they do not have jobs, their children are in school and they cannot pay their rents having worked for that institution for over 10 years.

Madam Deputy Speaker, I feel that my Statement has not been addressed. Therefore, I refer the matter back to you for your intervention.

You are about six of you and the numbers are growing. So, spend one and a half minute.

Bi. Naibu Spika, kwa hisani yako, nipe dakika tatu nimalize. Mimi ni mmoja wa wale Maseneta ambao walikuwa jaji katika hili koti ambalo lilikuwa lina jihusisha na hili jambo la wafanyikazi.

Sen. Wambua and Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jr. have spoken on your behalf.

Go ahead.

Bi. Naibu Spika, kwanza namshukuru dada yangu, Sen. Dullo, kwa kuuliza swali hili.

Uzito wangu ni kwamba mimi ni mmoja wa Kamati ya Leba. Lakini uzito ambao unanifanya niongee ni kwa sababu ninaangalia ripoti hii ya mama mlemavu ambaye tangu azaliwe, hajakuwa sawa na wamama wengine ambao wanaweza kujitafutia lakini alipata kibarua mahali kama hapa. Tegemeo lake kubwa lilikuwa kumuona Sen. Dullo ili amweleze masaibu yaliyomkumba ili apate msaada na yamefika hapa.

Bi. Spika, tunataka wafanyikazi walemavu waendelee kupata kazi. Jambo la kusikitisha ni kwamba wamefanya kazi miaka mingi pale ndani zaidi ya miaka kumi lakini leo wameambiwa waende nyumbani. Wataenda wapi?

Jambo la pili, Kamati ambayo mimi ni mmoja wao ilipitisha ya kwamba waliachishwa kazi kinyume cha sheria. Kwa hivyo, hatua itakayofuata ni Kamati iseme warejeshwe kazini.

Jambo la kushangaza ni kwamba Kamati inaosha mikono kama koti ya Bibilia ya Pontius Pilate aliposema ‘huyu mtu hana dhambi, lakini sasa mimi sitaki kusema nyinyi ndio mnasema’. Tunawarejesha tena kwa watu ambao walitaka kuwaadhibu. Sasa, tegemeo lao kubwa ni kwamba hapa ndio watakaopata msaada. Lakini, sisi tunawarejesha tena kwa mdomo wa simba. Kweli hao watu watapata haki kule?

Mimi ninaona waamuzi huo----

Senator, for the sake of the Members who do not understand you because you are speaking good Kiswahili, you have said that you are a Member of the Committee. So, are you deferring from the report?

Bi. Naibu Spika, kwa ruhusa, nasema ukweli kwamba ijapokuwa mimi ni Memba wa hii Kamati, sikubaliani na hii ripoti. Ndio sababu nimesema nitapata nafasi nanitasema. Siwezi kupiga makofi kwa sababu mtu amepoteza kazi na mimi ninaweka kidole na kusema ni sawa. Maoni yangu ni kwamba, afadhali uamuzi kama huu urudi tena katika Bunge la Seneti kwenye Kamati tuchunguze vizuri ili hao watu wapate afueni na warudi kazini.

Senator, I am trying to check whether you signed against the report.

Asante Naibu Spika. Ninatoa kauli yangu kuhusiana na ripoti hii. Nimeiangalia kwa mtazamo fagia nanikaona kwamba katika mapendekezo yao, moja nikuwa malalamiko ya walalamishi yarejeshwe katika Wizara pamoja na taasisi nyingine yakachunguzwe. Lakini, wao waliamini kwamba Bunge la Seneti ndio mahali ambapo wataleta malalamishi yao kama hatua yao ya mwisho.

Kwa hivyo, mimi sikubaliani na uamuzi huo kwa sababu nikuwapaka mafuta kwa mgongo wa chupa.

There is a point of order from Sen. Kinyua, the other Swahili orator.

Bi. Naibu Spika, sikutaka kuongea kuhusu hili jambo. Lakini, ninajua kwa nini amekosea. Nimekuwa nikimfuatilia kwa mambo ya mgongo wa chupa. Amefanya makosa kwa sababu, wakati sisi tunasema mambo kwa kingereza ‘bottom up’, nimekuwa nikimskia akisema. Ndio maana amefanya makosa hayo na ninamuelewa.

Nimasikitiko kwamba umempa Sen. Kinyua nafasi ya kuongea juu ya hoja ya nidhamu, lakini katika hoja yake, hakuna nidhamu yoyote ambayo imevunjwa.

Bi. Naibu Spika, mapendekezo ya Kamati hayaridhishi. Wamekubali kwamba watu walifutwa kazi kinyume cha sheria. Tukiangali Kifungu cha 37 cha Sheria ya Uajiri, mfanyikazi akifutwa kiholela, anafaa kulipwa ridhaa na kama inawezekana arejeshwe kazini. Hawa wamezungushwa mwaka mzima na sasa wameambiwa wapeleke malalamiko yao kwa Wizara yachunguzwe tena.

Sisi kama Bunge la Seneti, hatukubali mapendekezo hayo kwa sababu yatailetea kejeli Bunge hili. Kwa hivyo, naomba kama waliotangulia walivyosema kwamba, hii ripoti irudishwe tena kwa Kamati na waweze kutekeleza inavyopaswa kisheria.

Sen. Sakaja, I wanted to give you two minutes at the end. Are you on a point of order or a point of information?

Madam Deputy Speaker, I rise on a point of order. This report has been tabled. I do not know what Members are contributing to apart from what the Senators are referring to. What they are talking about is not what is in the report. Is it in order for Sen. Faki and Sen. Madzayo, who was there and signed, to comment on what is not in the Report?

Could you delay this discussion for 10 minutes for them to read the specific observations and recommendations? The Committee has said that because we have not finished the matter--- You have ruled before that in this House committees are in charge of implementation of the reports.

Madam Deputy Speaker, we have heard all the sides. We have seen there is an issue with the human resource. We have given them time and the Ministry to tell us the remedial action and even said that the Committee is going to visit. Why jump the gun and speak about things that you have not read? This is a report of a Statement and not a Petition. It is very unfair for Members to cast aspersions on the Committee without having read the Report that they are talking about. Please give them time to read it.

Senator, you have even said something that is more complicated. You are saying the Committee is still going to visit. If the Committee is going to visit, is this an interim report? If it is an interim report, we need to know so that we know that there is still work going to be done on this report.

That was why I wanted to know from a Member who seems to be dissociating himself from the Report, whether he signed for it or not. If it is not over, then we need to make a different decision so that we allow you to go and take care of what the person who petitioned this question is asking for. You have answered me and said it is not finished yet. If it is not concluded, let me allow Sen. Dullo’s point of order. You said you are going to go back. So, you are still going to go for a fact finding mission.

Madam Deputy Speaker, let me explain.

Order, Members! Let us get the Chairperson right on where he is.

Madam Deputy Speaker, probably it would have been useful if you knew that you were going to open up the Report to have allowed me to take Members through it. Members are talking about something very different. The issue was brought up. We listened to the affected staff, the Ewaso Ng’iro North Development Authority (ENNDA) and the Ministry. We got the history of this situation. There were over 50 vacancies. Some did not apply, but some got it and some did not.

We decided that on the general HR issues and what was brought to us, that we have given a timeline by which remedial action must be taken.

Order, Members! I just wanted a clarification from the Chairperson that it is still open. The Chairperson is on his feet. I gave him the permission to speak. So you do not have to cheer him up also. He knows.

Madam Deputy Speaker, this Report--- If there was one I would delay the report.

Sen. Sakaja, can you address the Chair and stop distractions?

Madam Deputy Speaker, there was a team there. This Report having been adopted by five Members of the Committee is no longer a preliminary report. It is a final Report. However, as we have seen, this House has no Committee on Implementation. I have dealt with so many reports here, including the one on railways. We gave a Report, but six months later we had to make sure everybody has gotten the payment. We have committed that we are also still going to go back to ENNDA to make sure the remedial action they have promised is taken. That is the Report.

Finally, when Members bring a Statement, it is not compulsory that you have to agree with it. If you bring it back unless you take it to a different committee. We have seen it because we heard all the parties involved. There are also other matters that we have not put here because of respect.

Thank you, Chairperson. We have understood you. Please take your seat.

Madam Deputy Speaker, the point is that we are still on the issue. We are still going to go back, but as of now this is the Report. I would urge Members to read it before commenting.

Mr. Chairperson, please take a seat because I had asked for one clarification from you whether it is still ongoing or it is final. This is because the report that I have seems to be giving us a final Report. There was a meeting on the 30th June where it was adopted via a proposal. There was a proposer and seconder for that.

Let us rest it there that this is a final report. Members can use the 20 minutes that I had availed to make the comments that they have had. I was going to give you the last

word. Listen to them because they have read it. We always assume that people read the Report immediately they come across it.

Sen. Murkomen, are you on a point of order? What is your point of order because there is nobody on the Floor for you say he is disorderly?

Madam Deputy Speaker, I have followed what Sen. Sakaja said very keenly and you have said that there is a Report that has been tabled in this House. How are we expected to comment on it and we have not even read it? Wait, if the report-- --

Hon. Senator, we do not want to rule you out of order because you are arrived when the Chairperson had already tabled the Report. The Chairperson had already made his Statement.

Madam Deputy Speaker, did he make a Statement?

Order, Members! The Chairperson

Madam Deputy Speaker, thank you.

Madam Deputy Speaker, I raised my hand and I am sure maybe you had not seen me on a point of order when the Chairperson was doing his presentation. What I wanted to seek your guidance on is that, is the Chairperson of the Committee in order to mislead the House? In my view, he is misleading the House when he challenges the contributions that were being made by Members while the report is here. The recommendations made by the Committee are clear as day and night.

Indeed, in their recommendation number two they have clearly referred this matter back to the Ministry. They have relegated the same mandate that had been given to the Committee to come up with a conclusion to the Ministry to then recommend back to the Committee the measures they are taking. In simpler terms, the Committee has simply abdicated responsibility.

We got your point. Please do not go beyond the point of order.

Madam Deputy Speaker, my point is simple. The Chairperson of the Committee is out of order to mislead the House. The Report is absolutely what the Members have said.

Leave the conclusion to--- I have heard you. Sen. Kinyua, proceed. One minute now because my 20 minutes are running out.

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I have looked at this Report and it is true. The observation is very right, but the recommendations are wrong. It is like saying Sen. Kinyua has teeth and a cow has teeth. That observation is very true. However, concluding that Sen. Kinyua is a cow is wrong. It is exactly what they have done.

If you look at what they are recommending, they say that all the recommendations should be taken back to the Ministry. So, there was no need for this complainant to come to the Senate in the first place. I have interacted with Mr. Gashushwa David Muriithi. He is a graduate with a Bachelor’s Degree from Egerton University. From our investigations, they said this person did not exist.

With a lot of respect to the Chairperson of the Committee who has been sitting in many committees and doing a good job, on this one, I feel they need to bring this Report back to this House so that it can be investigated again. Look at what they are saying, that they are giving the Ministry three months so that they can go back and check the milestones in terms of implementing what they have recommended.

Madam Deputy Speaker, it is this House that is supposed to make sure many of these recommendations are implemented. They even say that the Senate has no capacity to micromanage the institution. We are not doing that. We are doing our oversight duties. That is why many Senators who sit in that Committee disagree with this Report.

Thank you, Senator. Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr., two minutes. Please, I am not taking in new Members on this one. I will only have Sen. Wambua and Sen. (Dr.) Musuruve for two minutes each.

Madam Deputy Speaker, we will not mince our words. This Report is terrible. The Committee, as Sen. Kinyua has mentioned, says Ewaso Ng’iro North Development Authority (ENNDA) must not be micromanaged. The minute you made that conclusion, you compromised yourselves completely. It is because we are an entity that oversights public institutions.

Madam Deputy Speaker, would you be surprised that the National Treasury allocated this entity Kshs406 million this financial year? We are aware of this. The 56 people who were fired in 2020 were fired during Coronavirus (COVID-19) pandemic. If you look at the list of the fired people, it presupposes that there is somebody in that institution who is keen on hiring their kin. It is not for nothing that they have fired people from all over the country. They have replaced them with people of their tribe.

An hon. Senator: Yes!

Lastly, if this Committee was serious – a judge is here – they would have a recommendation on what they found on the 56 people. Every dismissal is a course of action.

On a point to information, Madam Deputy Speaker.

There is a point of information from Sen. Dullo. Please, be very brief because the minutes are over.

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. For your information, Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr., after I brought the matter to the House about the 56, they reinstated 42 and left out the rest on the basis that they are not qualified. One of them is the one mentioned by Sen. Kinyua who is a graduate, and they say he is not qualified. The reason is that he is not a relative or from the tribe of the Chief Executive Officer (CEO) . That is why he was not reinstated.

Sen. Dullo, be careful not to make conclusions. We expect the Chairperson to give us the conclusions.

Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. you have a half minute remaining.

Madam Deputy Speaker, it is one minute. I have checked. This is the position, if they were 56 and 42 were reinstated, there should be a table showing the same. On the reinstatement table, we would then check what discretion they used and see whether there was injustice or discrimination on the eight.

In my view, this Committee should stand down on this matter and allocate it to another Committee. We, the Committee on Justice, Legal Affairs and Human Rights, are prepared to handle this matter.

Thank you, Senator. You have finished your minute.

Sen. Wambua, proceed and then I come to the Chairperson.

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I will address myself to only two issues. One is observation No.16. It tries to cast aspersions on the work of a Senate Committee or the Senate in total. That observation is very dangerous. Saying that ENNDA should not be seen to be micromanaged, by who and on what?

Madam Deputy Speaker, issues must be raised. If human resource issues arise in all institutions, they must be raised and questioned and answers provided. That does not amount to micromanaging. We are just enquiring into what is happening.

Secondly, I am of the important view that the Committee said they will go back to site after three months.

How?

Madam Deputy Speaker, to do what? They have already made their observation and made recommendations. That Committee should stand down and give this job---

Thank you, Senator!

Sorry, it was not Sen. (Dr.) Musuruve, but Sen. (Eng.) Mahamud who has been flicking. That is the last one and then I will come to the Chairperson. It is too late, please.

Madam Deputy Speaker, we did not want to debate this Report before, but I come from that region. The ENNDA covers 100 per cent of my county and many others. I have not read the Report made by Members, but I know the story of the 56 people. They were casuals for many years and they wanted to regularize. So, they asked them to apply. They did and those who qualified were taken.

Apparently ENNDA covers all the counties. We want the Report to be substantively moved so that we can debate it and bring out the facts. The way it is now, the Member has moved under Standing Order No.48 (4) where we are supposed to comment for 20 minutes. We have been talking for one hour now. We have debated the Report in various positions. To be fair to the Report, the Authority and the Committee of the Senate, we need the Report substantively moved and tabled. What we are doing is unprocedural.

I want to guide the Chairperson. You have listened to the sentiments.

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. As I said earlier, there is benefit in reading. Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr., has stood up and become so poetic about what the Committee should have done yet he has not read the Report. The names of the eight people he is asking for are in the report.

Madam Deputy Speaker, I know the work I have done in this House for the past three years is unimpeachable. Without having looked at the specifics in the Report, it is unfair.

First, there were 56 employees of the Ewaso Ng’iro North Development Authority (ENNDA) . The Ministry together with ENNDA acknowledged the fact that for a long time, ENNDA had serious Human Resource (HR) issues. In fact, the CEO and the Board are new.

When they came in, they started the process of rationalizing the staff. The 56 advertisements were not external. So, when a Senator stands up and says somebody is firing people to hire their cronies, from where?

Out of the 56, 50 applied for the advertised positions. One applied for unadvertised positions that are not there. Five did not apply. Out of the 56, 42 were reinstated. Maybe the language used is wrong, but I do not see how you would have wanted us, as Senate, to say you must hire this specific person. They were absorbed.

The names of the eight that Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. is asking for are in the Report. You need to read the whole Report because the names are there.

Additionally, we acknowledge the process of rationalization, including merging one department with another. When you bring a Statement and there is an outcome that you want, that this person must be in a certain department, we cannot. Even if that comes to my committee, I will not do that. We cannot dictate that.

I have dealt with numerous labour issues in all the counties. What we must---

Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr., I would rather we have a way forward.

I am giving the way forward. Allow me to finish because it is a Report. Just give me time.

Why do you not listen! As a Senate, our work is to pass recommendations. When you table a report, it is the recommendations that are actioned. We are simply saying that there are no recommendations on that Table. It is not that we do not know, do not mislead the House.

Madam Deputy Speaker, that is debatable. Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. is completely wrong.

Madam Deputy Speaker, let me read out the recommendations properly after having done that.

I did not want you to go there.

I must, Madam Deputy Speaker, because on the record of this House, the recommendations that are being read are not our recommendations. We said that the Ministry together with the management must give us a report with comprehensive milestones on the status of the human capital reforms for workers under their purview.

Secondly, we said that within one month, they must give us specific remedial measures taken to address the specific issues raised in the Statement and the affected staff who are eight of them.

Thirdly, we have commissioned the National Gender and Equality Commission (NGEC) and the Kenya National Human Rights Commission (KNHRC) to conduct an investigation on human rights violations. When somebody comes and says that their rights have been violated and someone says it has been done and someone else says it has not been done, we cannot take sides. It is “he says” and “she says”. This Senate must be objective.

I have gone to that county more than three times. Once we receive those two reports as a Committee, we shall go back to the site and have further engagements and give further recommendations. I do not see what else can be done. That is the position.

This is a report under Standing Order No.48. If it was a Petition or a Motion, it could have been dealt with in another manner. I stand on that position.

Thank you Chair.

Hon. Members, it is true that under Statements, we do not move a Motion to debate a report. It is only 20 minutes. Fortunately, some Members use 20 minutes to read a report while others do not read.

For those who read, in most cases when there is no time, they read observations and conclusion. Most Members do that. That is why they are wondering why there is no relationship as observed by different Members.

A Member asked a question. I do not think there is a problem with the investigations. In her own words, she said the committee did a commendable job and gave good observations. However, the conclusions were short.

This is what I want to suggest. We are not going to have another Committee. We observed that there are Members of the Committee who do not seem to be in agreement.

Chair, I strongly recommend that you sit with your Members and look at the observations. If there is any gap that you need to fill, do so and then reintroduce the Report again. It is so ordered.

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. This is a House of rules and the Standing Orders are clear on the language that should be used in this House.

Madam Deputy Speaker, when you were standing, Sen. Cheruiyot was also standing. In the process, Sen. (Dr.) Langat shouted saying that; Sen. Cheruiyot sit down. Respect your pöker. What is pöker? How can the Deputy Speaker be called pöker in the Senate?

I think that was Greek because none of us understood.

Madam Deputy Speaker, I just want to inform Sen. Murkomen not to be collecting phatic talks around the corridors and bringing them into the House because they are not on record. I was neither referring to you nor to anybody here. I was just saying my own things. I am sorry, Sen. Murkomen.

Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr., you can table the first Paper, which is the Report on The Prompt Payment Bill (Senate Bills No.16 of 2021) .

Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker. I am sure we will find out what that means in a few minutes.

Madam Deputy Speaker, I beg to lay the following Paper on the Table of the Senate:

Report of the Standing Committee on Finance and Budget on the Prompt Payment Bill (Senate Bills No.16 of 2021) .

I thank you.

The last is Paper No. V - Report of the Standing Committee on Health on the Special Audit Report on Utilization of COVID- 19 Funds by the County Governments.

Proceed, Committee Vice-Chairperson.

Madam Deputy Speaker, I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.52 (1) . I hereby present to the Senate the business of the House for the week commencing Tuesday, 3rd August, 2021.

On Tuesday, 3rd August, 2021, the Senate Business Committee (SBC) will meet to consider and approve business for the week. On that day, the Senate will consider Bills at the Second Reading Stage, Motions on Reports of various Standing Committees as contained in the programme of Senate business.

The Senate will also continue with consideration of Bills, Motions, Petitions and Statements that will not be concluded in today’s Order Paper.

On Wednesday, 4th August, 2021, the Senate will continue with the business that will not have been concluded on Tuesday, 3rd August, 2021, and any other business scheduled by the SBC.

On Thursday, 5th August, 2021, the Senate will continue with the business that will not have been concluded on Wednesday, 4th August, 2021, and any other business.

Madam Deputy Speaker, as we are aware, the Senate has been in the process of republishing Bills in line with the judgment of the High Court of Kenya in Constitutional Petition No. 284 of 2019. As of now, a total of 61 Bills have been published. Out of those, 21 are undergoing concurrence pursuant to Article 110 (3) ; 29 are at the Second Reading and eight Bills are at the Committee of the Whole stage.

As indicated in today’s Order Paper, there are seven Bills scheduled for division at the Second Reading stage at Orders No.8 to14. Further, there are six Bills scheduled for Committee of the Whole stage.

I take this opportunity to urge Senators to avail themselves this afternoon for the division. I also urge the responsible Senators and respective Standing Committee Chairpersons to be available for the Committee of the Whole to allow for the smooth transition to the next stage.

I take this opportunity to applaud committees for their effort in processing five Statements and Petitions referred to them. However, there are still a number of Petitions pending conclusion in the Senate. I urge respective Standing Committees to expedite consideration of the Petitions and any other pending business and table reports pursuant to the Standing Orders.

Madam Deputy Speaker, I thank you, and hereby lay the Statement on the Table of the Senate.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. (Prof.) Kamar: Hon. Senators, we will skip the Statements for now and go to the next order for the convenience of the House in view of the divisions.

Order No.7 is stood down for now. We will come back to it later. Let the Clerk read out Orders No. 8 to 14.

Hon. Senators, we will skip the Statements for now and go to the next order for the convenience of the House in view of the divisions. Order No.7 is stood down for now. We will come back to it later. Let the Clerk read out Orders No. 8 to 14.

Second Reading

Hon. Senators, when you vote, please do so for the seven Bills, so that we do not have to repeat. Voting is by roll call, and it starts right now.

Second Reading

Hon. Senators, the results of the division are as follows: -

Hon. Senators, the results of the division are as follows: -

Hon. Senators, the results of the second vote are as follows-

Hon. Senators, the results of the second vote are as follows-

Teller for the Noes: Sen. Chebeni.

Hon. Senators, the results of the voting is as follows-

Hon. Senators, the results of the voting is as follows-

Hon. Senators, the results of the voting is as follows: -

Hon. Senators, the results of the voting are as follows-

Hon. Senators, the results of the voting is as follows-

Thank you hon. Senators. We have finished the voting and read out the results.

Let us go back to the Order on Statements under Standing Order No.48 (1) . The Senator for Nandi County, Sen. Cherargei, proceed.

Let us go back to the Order on Statements under Standing Order No.48 (1) . The Senator for Nandi County, Sen. Cherargei, proceed.

Madam Deputy Speaker, I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.48 (1) , to seek a Statement from the Standing Committee on Education on the Ministry of Education policy of merging registration centres for national examinations. In the Statement, the Committee should-

Madam Deputy Speaker, I rise, pursuant to Standing Order No.48 (1) to seek a Statement from the Standing Committee on Roads and Transportation regarding risks posed by floods on the Ahero Junction-Ayweyo-Kolunga section of the newly constructed Isebania-Kisii-Ahero (A1) Road. In the Statement, the Committee should-

Thank you. The next Statement is by Sen. (Prof.) Ekal.

Sen. Mwaruma, we have said no riding for now. What was your intervention on? Please, give him the microphone.

Thank you. The next Statement is by Sen. (Prof.) Ekal.

Sen. Mwaruma, we have said no riding for now. What was your intervention on? Please, give him the microphone.

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Sen. Nyamunga has requested for a statement from the Committee on Roads and Transportation. I wish to ask for your direction because I requested for a Statement from the same Committee on a road from Njukini to Elasit, which is supposed to be tarmacked. Three months down the line, I have not received any response. Please, give direction on how that Statement is supposed to be prosecuted.

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.48 (1) to seek a Statement from the Committee on National Security, Defense and Foreign Relations on the illegal construction by residents of West Pokot County at Kaakore in Turkana County. In the Statement-

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.48 (1) to seek a Statement from the Committee on National Security, Defense and Foreign Relations on the illegal construction by residents of West Pokot County at Kaakore in Turkana County. In the Statement-

Thank you. The next one is by Sen. Halake.

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Before I seek this Statement, I do so with a very painful heart because this involves the eviction of our people, pastoralists in Laikipia County. We have been dealing with this matter for many years.

Madam Deputy Speaker, I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.48 (1) to seek a Statement from the Standing Committee on National Security, Defense and Foreign Relations regarding the threats by the Cabinet Secretary (CS) for Interior and Coordination of National Government, to forcefully evict pastoralists from parcels of land in Laikipia County.

In the Statement, the Committee should-

Hon. Senator, do not digress.

Madam Deputy Speaker, I will not digress. Thank you for allowing me to request this Statement because it is painful. I hope the Committee on National Security, Defence and Foreign Relations will deal with this matter urgently because it will affect thousands of people.

Sen. Kinyua, are you on a point of order?

Madam Deputy Speaker, there must be clarity in this Statement. The Cabinet Secretary was in Laikipia yesterday but he did not talk about evicting pastoralists. He was very clear. He said illegal grazers.

In this country, we are ruled---

We are not debating it.

I am not debating. I am just putting it for the purpose of the Committee, so that they get the gist of the matter. We are talking about illegal grazers.

In this country, we are governed by the rule of law. Let me make it clear that we have classification of land in Article 61. We have public land---

Hon. Senator, we do not want to work for the Committee. These chairmen are very able. You are all welcome.

I am just providing clarity. When they say we have former colonial masters in Laikipia, that is not true.

The Statement speaks for itself. I want us to wind up on it. In fact, I will not allow riding on this one.

Point of order!

Madam Deputy Speaker, should I proceed or you are allowing points of order?

What is your point of order, Sen. Wambua?

Madam Deputy Speaker, you have ruled on this matter. I am just curious. This Statement is about Laikipia and we have the Senator for Laikipia. It is only fair that the Senator for the county gets an opportunity to say something about this issue.

When we commit Statements to committees, we know that the Chairs are very able. As Members, you are also allowed to join those committees.

There is another point of order from Sen. Sakaja.

When we commit Statements to committees, we know that the Chairs are very able. As Members, you are also allowed to join those committees.

There is another point of order from Sen. Sakaja.

Madam Deputy Speaker, just very briefly. In this House---

Are you on a point of order?

Yes, I am on a point of order. In this House, we have 47 Senators elected to represent the counties and 20 nominated to represent special interests and they are all very important.

While a Senator can ask a question on any part of the country, once that Statement has been raised, in a situation like this where you limited riding on, for the people we represent, I think it is in order to give the elected Senator even a minute to say something.

The people of Laikipia are watching and the people of Kenya are watching. Whether he agrees with it or not, it is in order for him to make a general statement. Members will come here with issues of Nairobi and if I do not speak, they may think I have agreed or disagreed. We represent the people and we are elected.

Sen. Sakaja, whom are you directing your point of order to?

I think it is in order. Madam Deputy Speaker, is it in order for us to go against Article 96 that gives us the mandate to represent our counties by not allowing us to comment on issues affecting our counties?

I seek your indulgence to allow Sen. Kinyua, whether he agrees with it or not, to also say something and not to send him to the Committee.

Sen. Kinyua, do not go there. Hon. Senators, please, take your seats.

I allowed a point of order. I did not allow a debate and you to answer questions that the Chair is supposed to respond to because they will do that. By the way, if you have any information, you are free to join the Committee and provide the information.

So, let us not dwell on that so much because you can approach the Chair of the Committee on National Security, Defence and Foreign Relations and give them the information. That is what our Standing Orders provide as far as Statements are concerned.

Secondly, two weeks ago, we agreed that because of the busy schedule, we will not allow riders on Statements. So, I will close it at that. He had not finished.

I allowed a point of order. I did not allow a debate and you to answer questions that the Chair is supposed to respond to because they will do that. By the way, if you have any information, you are free to join the Committee and provide the information.

So, let us not dwell on that so much because you can approach the Chair of the Committee on National Security, Defence and Foreign Relations and give them the information. That is what our Standing Orders provide as far as Statements are concerned.

Secondly, two weeks ago, we agreed that because of the busy schedule, we will not allow riders on Statements. So, I will close it at that. He had not finished.

He was still reading the Statement, unless you want to end it.

Sen. Olekina, when you present a Statement, you are not supposed to qualify it because you have a right to go to the Committee and give further information and raise other issues.

I thought he had finished. Okay, you finish No.7. An hon. Senator: He had read it!

Madam Deputy Speaker, you understand the problem. When you stand here and---

Bi. Naibu Spika, hoja yangu ya nidhamu ni kwamba yule aliyeleta kauli ile ni Sen. Olekina. Amelileta kauli hii kwa uchungu sana kuhusiana na Wamaasai ambao anawakilisha hapa. Tunaelewa kwamba Wamaasai wanapenda--

No. That is not---

Can you read No.7 just in case all of us missed it. Let him finish his Statement.

Je ni haki kwa yule mwenye kutoa kauli ambaye ni Mmaasai--- The Deputy Speaker (Sen. (Prof.) Kamar) : No, no. You are out of order!

Bi. Naibu Spika---

Take your seat, Sen. Madzayo.

Bi. Naibu Spika, tafadhali, niruhusu nimalize. Tafadhali, ninakusihi.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. (Prof.) Kamar): Take your seat, first.

Madam Deputy Speaker, I will not add anything, but I just hope we can all listen. The Committee should-

Madam Deputy Speaker, I need your attention because Sen. Sakaja raised a very important matter. I thought you would rule on it. I am reminding you to give direction on it. It is something I have seen recur several times where a Senator raises a Statement on an issue that is in another Senator’s jurisdiction or the people the other Senator represents.

Ordinarily, when such a matter comes up, out of tradition, you grant the first response or at least some minutes to the resident Senator of the county. I am not in any way getting into the debate of how Sen. Kinyua prosecuted his point. I thought he probably would have done it differently.

On that point Sen. Sakaja raised, would it not be important that you dispense with that matter?

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. (Prof.) Kamar) : Sen. Cheruiyot and all Senators, our Statements are guided by Part 11 of our Standing Orders which does not confine you to your county. I think that should come out very clearly.

Both Statements under Standing Order Nos. 47 and 48, in fact, some Statement are on general national interest. So, you can make a Statement the way you wish. When the Statements have been given, especially the ones under Standing Order No.48, they stand committed to the committees.

When the Committees are investigating, any Senator is free to go and give any information that they feel. Sen. Kinyua did the right thing to stand on a point of order because that was the only entry point he had and he was allowed. There was nothing such

as that he was denied the opportunity to say something. He said it, but under a point of order. In fact, he was only pursuing only two words, “pastoralist” and “illegal grazers”.

Although, you have said that for the benefit of the Member who is asking the question, Senator is free to go the Committee and even pursue it further because it is his county. I think he has the right to do that.

Yes, at the point of asking a question, it is not always that one must respond as a person from that county. If you have something that needs correction, you rise on a point of order. It is allowed as we allowed Sen. Kinyua. That is what the procedure says.

When the report comes here, you will be free to debate, but more so, he should take his information to the Committee because that helps the Chairs of these Committees to process the questions properly.

With those remarks, please, let us move to the next Order. We are going to reorganize the business of the House for the convenience of the House. We will stand down Orders No. 15-21 for now and revisit them later.

Take your seat, first.

Second Reading THE NATURAL RESOURCES (BENEFIT SHARING) BILL (SENATE BILLS NO. 25 OF 2020)

Madam Deputy Speaker, I need your attention because Sen. Sakaja raised a very important matter. I thought you would rule on it. I am reminding you to give direction on it. It is something I have seen recur several times where a Senator raises a Statement on an issue that is in another Senator’s jurisdiction or the people the other Senator represents. Ordinarily, when such a matter comes up, out of tradition, you grant the first response or at least some minutes to the resident Senator of the county. I am not in any way getting into the debate of how Sen. Kinyua prosecuted his point. I thought he probably would have done it differently. On that point Sen. Sakaja raised, would it not be important that you dispense with that matter? The Deputy Speaker (

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Sen. Cheruiyot and all Senators, our Statements are guided by Part 11 of our Standing Orders which does not confine you to your county. I think that should come out very clearly. Both Statements under Standing Order Nos. 47 and 48, in fact, some Statement are on general national interest. So, you can make a Statement the way you wish. When the Statements have been given, especially the ones under Standing Order No.48, they stand committed to the committees. When the Committees are investigating, any Senator is free to go and give any information that they feel. Sen. Kinyua did the right thing to stand on a point of order because that was the only entry point he had and he was allowed. There was nothing such

Madam Deputy Speaker, under Standing Order No.117 which is what I had raised earlier says: “It is an act of gross disorderly conduct if a Senator-

“Defies a ruling or direction of the Speaker or Chairperson of Committees”

Madam Deputy Speaker, I wish you would listen. I know Sen. Dullo is consulting on an important matter.

Second Reading THE NATURAL RESOURCES (BENEFIT SHARING) BILL (SENATE BILLS NO. 25 OF 2020)

Madam Deputy Speaker, I would like you to allow someone to say what they are saying before coming in. You are not allowing me to complete what I am saying. That was just an example. I raised it at that time and I did not catch your eye but I pressed.

I am using that in the context that now you have already directed how the Order Paper goes. I just want to register a protest. I sit in the Senate Business Committee (SBC) and you chair it. There is a reason why we order business in a certain manner. I have been here ready to reply to the Prompt Payment Bill, which is the next Order, but another Senator came in and said that their Order, Order No. 20, should come earlier. It is not right because we are here and there is an order of business.

Order, Senator! You are now---

There is no business that is more important than any other business.

Violation of Standing Order 117 has been happening including shouting matches between Senators and yourself. I do not think that is correct and you need to stamp your authority.

I am saying, Standing Order No.117. You have seen what has happened a few minutes ago. You were on your feet saying something and Senators were on their feet.

I wish you raised it. When you raise a point of order, raise it at that time. The eyes of the Speaker do not see----

Madam Deputy Speaker, I raised it.

The ears of the Speaker cannot hear what has not been pronounced. You are now pronouncing a very important thing too late. The person you are speaking to is gone. When you want to correct something, I encourage you to be on time.

Madam Deputy Speaker, I would like you to allow someone to say what they are saying before coming in. You are not allowing me to complete what I am saying. That was just an example. I raised it at that time and I did not catch your eye but I pressed.

I am using that in the context that now you have already directed how the Order Paper goes. I just want to register a protest. I sit in the Senate Business Committee (SBC) and you chair it. There is a reason why we order business in a certain manner. I have been here ready to reply to the Prompt Payment Bill, which is the next Order, but another Senator came in and said that their Order, Order No. 20, should come earlier. It is not right because we are here and there is an order of business.

Order, Senator! You are now---

There is no business that is more important than any other business.

You are now going in the wrong direction. You say that there is a Senator who said that their business is more important than yours. I want to assure you that there is none. The reorganization was done by the same members of the SBC.

I am a Member of the SBC.

Bi. Naibu Spika, ninaona kuwa unamjibu na kumweleza ndugu yangu, Sen. Sakaja, sawa sawa. Wakati nilipokuwa ninazungumza juu ya wafugaji, niliongea kwa heshima. Lakini kwa sababu ulikuwa unakata kuninyamazisha, ulisimama. Sasa ninaona umejibizana na Sen. Sakaja vizuri hadi mumeelewana ilhali hukukubali kuelewana na mimi nilipokuwa ninazungumza juu ya wafugaji wa mifugo, na wafugaji wa mifugo wanaojulikana Kenya nzima ni Wamaasai---

Bi. Naibu Spika, hii ni kwa heshima. Nilipotaja hivyo, ulisimama. Nilikuhisi nikakuambia kama nilikukosea kutaja hili jina la “Maasai,” basi uketi ili niweze kuendelea. Nilisema nitatumia jina “mfugaji”. Hivyo ingekuwa vizuri, kwa maana tungekuwa tumeelewana. Sasa wewe uliposimama ulifanya mimi niketi.

Hon. Senator, why are taking us back to one hour ago?

Ni kwa sababu nimesikitika. Umempatia Sen. Sakaja nafasi nzuri ya kujieleza, ilhali hukunipatia nafasi nzuri ya kujieleza.

Thank you. Can we move to the next Order, please?

Sen. Madzayo.

Bi. Naibu Spika, ninaona kuwa unamjibu na kumweleza ndugu yangu, Sen. Sakaja, sawa sawa. Wakati nilipokuwa ninazungumza juu ya wafugaji, niliongea kwa heshima. Lakini kwa sababu ulikuwa unakata kuninyamazisha, ulisimama. Sasa ninaona umejibizana na Sen. Sakaja vizuri hadi mumeelewana ilhali hukukubali kuelewana na mimi nilipokuwa ninazungumza juu ya wafugaji wa mifugo, na wafugaji wa mifugo wanaojulikana Kenya nzima ni Wamaasai---

Bi. Naibu Spika, hii ni kwa heshima. Nilipotaja hivyo, ulisimama. Nilikuhisi nikakuambia kama nilikukosea kutaja hili jina la “Maasai,” basi uketi ili niweze kuendelea. Nilisema nitatumia jina “mfugaji”. Hivyo ingekuwa vizuri, kwa maana tungekuwa tumeelewana. Sasa wewe uliposimama ulifanya mimi niketi.

Hon. Senator, why are taking us back to one hour ago?

Ni kwa sababu nimesikitika. Umempatia Sen. Sakaja nafasi nzuri ya kujieleza, ilhali hukunipatia nafasi nzuri ya kujieleza.

Thank you. Can we move to the next Order, please?

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move- THAT Clause 5 be part of the Bill.

Amendment of Section 23 of No.47 of

Madam Temporary Chairperson, pursuant to Standing Order No.148 I beg to move that the Committee of the Whole do report progress on its consideration of the Wildlife Conservation and Management (Amendment) Bill (Senate Bills No. 30 of 2020) and seek leave to sit again tomorrow. I thank you. (Question proposed) (Question put and agreed to) The Temporary Chairperson (

THAT Clause 6 be part of the Bill.

Hon. Senators, the next Bill is the Community Health Services Bill (Senate Bills No. 34 of 2020) .

Madam Temporary Speaker, I beg to move- That, Clause 3 be part of the Bill. (Question that Clause 3 be part of the Bill proposed) The Temporary Chairperson (

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move- THAT Clause 8 of the Bill be amended in sub-clause (1) by deleting paragraph (c) and substituting therefor the following new paragraph —

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move- That Clause 9 be part of the Bill.

The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Nyamunga) : Division will be at the end. Clause 10

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move- THAT Clause 10 be part of the Bill.

The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Nyamunga) : Division will be at the end. Clause 11

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move- THAT Clause 11 be part of the Bill.

Division will be at the end. Clause 5

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move- THAT Clause 5 be part of the Bill.

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move- THAT Clause 5 of the Bill be amended in a paragraph (a) by inserting the following sub-paragraph immediately after paragraph (iii) — (iiia) implementation of community and family-based care and support systems for persons with mental health illness; (Question of the amendment proposed) The Temporary Chairperson (

The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Nyamunga): Division will be at the end. Clause 2, The Title and Clause 1

Division will be at the end. Clause 6

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move-

THAT Clause 6 be part of the Bill.

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move- THAT Clause 6 of the Bill be amended—

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move- THAT Clause 7 be part of the Bill.

Clause 8

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I move that Clauses 3 and 4 be part of the Bill.

The Temporary Chairperson

(Sen. Nyamunga)

: Division at the end. The Title and Clause 1

The Temporary Chairperson

(Sen. Nyamunga)

: Division at the end.

Madam Temporary Chairperson, pursuant to Standing Order No. 148, I beg to move that the Committee of the Whole do report to the House its consideration of the Parliamentary Powers and Privileges (Amendment) Bill (Senate Bills No.33 of 2020) and seek leave to sit again tomorrow.

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move- That Clause 9 be part of the Bill. (Question that Clause 9 be part of the Bill proposed) The Temporary Chairperson (

Division will be at the end. Clause 10

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move- THAT Clause 10 be part of the Bill. (Question that Clause 10 be part of the Bill proposed) The Temporary Chairperson (

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move that the Committee do report to the House its consideration of the National Flag, Emblems and Names (Amendment) Bill (Senate Bills No.36 of 2020) and its approval thereof with amendments.

The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Nyamunga) : Senator, I think you are on the wrong one. That is not the correct one. Can she be guided, please?

Madam Temporary Chairperson, pursuant to Standing Order No. 148, I beg to move that the Committee of the Whole do report progress on its consideration on the National Flag, Emblems and Names (Amendment) Bill (Senate Bills No.36 of 2020) and seek leave to sit again tomorrow.

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move- THAT clause 11 of the Bill be amended in sub-clause (2) by inserting the following new paragraph immediately after paragraph (d) — (da) monitor the rehabilitation and integration of persons with a mental illness into the community. (Question of the amendment proposed) The Temporary Chairperson (

Division will be at the end. Clauses 12,13,14,15,16,17,18 and19

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move- THAT Clauses 12,13,14,15,16,17,18 and19 be part of the Bill.

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move: THAT, Clauses 7, 8 and 9 be part of the Bill.

The Temporary Chairperson

(Sen. Nyamunga)

: Division at the end. Next. Clause 10

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I move- THAT Clause 10 of the Bill be amended in sub clause (1) by-

Division will be at the end. Clause 2, The Title and Clause 1

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move- THAT Clause 2, the Title and Clause 1be part of the Bill. (Question that Clause 2, the Title and Clause 1 be part of the Bill proposed) The Temporary Chairperson (

Division will be at the end.

Madam Temporary Chairperson, pursuant to Standing Order No. 148, I beg to move that the Committee of the Whole do report to the House its consideration of the Community Health Services (Senate Bills No. 34 of 2020) and seek leave to sit again tomorrow.

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move: THAT Clause 27 of the Bill be amended by inserting the following new subclause immediately after subclause

(8)

—

(8A)

The holder of a coffee buyer’s licence or an entity associated with a holder of the licence shall not carry on the business of a commercial miller, broker, roaster, agent or warehouse operator.

(8B)

A buyer’s licence shall not be construed as authorizing a person to engage in direct sale of coffee or coffee products.

(8C)

A holder of a commercial miller’s licence or any other entity associated with such holder shall not carry on the business of a buyer, broker, roaster, or agent.

(8D)

A licensing authority shall not issue a licence to a person whose effect would result in in the contravention of subsection

(8A)

,

(8B)

or

(8C)

.

The Temporary Chairperson

(Sen. Nyamunga)

: Division will be at the end. Clauses 28, 29, 30 and 31

Division will be at the end. Clause 32

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move: THAT, Clause 32 of the Bill be amended by inserting the following new paragraph immediately after paragraph (a) –

(aa)

monies received from the levy imposed on coffee sales pursuant to section 32A.

The Temporary Chairperson

(Sen. Nyamunga)

: Division will be at the end. Clause 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38 and 39

Chairperson, proceed.

Division will be at the end. Clause 40

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I move that Clauses 3 and 4 be part of the Bill. (Question that Clauses 3 and 4 be part of the Bill proposed) The Temporary Chairperson (

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move: THAT, Clause 43 of the Bill be amended in—

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move:

Division at the end.

THAT, Clause 53 of the Bill be amended by deleting paragraph (b) and substituting therefor the following new paragraph—

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move: THAT Clauses 2 and 3 be part of the Bill.

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move: THAT, the Bill be amended by inserting the following new clause immediately after clause 2— objects

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move: THAT the Bill be amended by inserting the following New Clause immediately after Clause 27—

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move: THAT the Title and Clause 1 be part of the Bill. (Question that the Title and Clause 1 be part of the Bill proposed) The Temporary Chairperson (

Division at the end. The Mover to report.

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move that the Committee do report to the House its consideration of the National Flag, Emblems and Names (Amendment) Bill (Senate Bills No.36 of 2020) and its approval thereof with amendments. The Temporary Chairperson (

Senator, I think you are on the wrong one. That is not the correct one. Can she be guided, please?

Madam Temporary Chairperson, pursuant to Standing Order No. 148, I beg to move that the Committee of the Whole do report progress on its consideration on the National Flag, Emblems and Names (Amendment) Bill (Senate Bills No.36 of 2020) and seek leave to sit again tomorrow.

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move: THAT the Bill be amended by inserting the following new Clauses immediately after new Clause 27D—

27E. (1) A person shall not transport clean coffee unless such person – Movement permits

The Temporary Chairperson (

Division at the end. Clause 6The Temporary Chairperson (

Chairperson, proceed. It is okay.

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move- THAT Clause 6 of the Bill be amended by-

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move: THAT the Bill be amended by inserting the following new clause immediately after Clause 31—

31C. (1) The Institute shall, in collaboration with the respective county executive committee member, undertake analysis of the farm inputs to ascertain compliance with the prescribed standards. Farm inputs

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move- THAT the Bill be amended by inserting the following new clause immediately after Clause 31—

31D. (1) A co-operative society comprising coffee growers shall keep and maintain a register of coffee growers and planting, uprooting the number of coffee trees planted or uprooted by each of coffee or change of its members in the prescribed form. Notification after planting, uprooting coffee or change of details of farm estate

Division at the end. Next. Clause 10

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I move- THAT Clause 10 of the Bill be amended in sub clause (1) by-

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move: - THAT, the Bill be amended by deleting Clause 17. (Question of the amendment proposed) The Temporary Chairperson (

Division will be at the end. Clause 18, 19, 20, 21 and 22 (Question, that Clauses 18, 19, 20, 21 and 22 be part of the Bill, proposed) Division will be at the end. Clause 23

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move: THAT, Clause 23 of Bill be amended in sub-clause (1) by—

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move: THAT the Bill be amended by inserting the following new heading immediately after the proposed New Clause 31H—

Division will be at the end. Clause 26

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move: THAT, Clause 26 of the Bill be amended in—

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move: THAT Clause 27 of the Bill be amended by inserting the following new subclause immediately after subclause (8) — (8A) The holder of a coffee buyer’s licence or an entity associated with a holder of the licence shall not carry on the business of a commercial miller, broker, roaster, agent or warehouse operator. (8B) A buyer’s licence shall not be construed as authorizing a person to engage in direct sale of coffee or coffee products. (8C) A holder of a commercial miller’s licence or any other entity associated with such holder shall not carry on the business of a buyer, broker, roaster, or agent. (8D) A licensing authority shall not issue a licence to a person whose effect would result in in the contravention of subsection (8A) , (8B) or (8C) . (Question of the amendment proposed) The Temporary Chairperson (

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move- THAT the Bill be amended by inserting the following new clause immediately after the proposed New Clause 31H—

31K. (1) There is established a body to be known as Nairobi Coffee Exchange for purposes of coffee of trading.

Establishment and functions of Nairobi coffee exchange

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move- THAT the Bill be amended by inserting the following new clauses immediately after the proposed New Clause 31H—

31L. (1) A broker or agent appointed by growers and other service providers shall not receive coffee sale proceeds on behalf of the growers.

The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Nyamunga): The Division will be at the end. New Clause 31M

Division will be at the end. Clause 40

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move: THAT, Clause 40 of the Bill be amended in—

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move: THAT, Clause 41 of the Bill be amended by inserting the expression “ (fa) ” immediately after the words “under section (1) (f) ”. (Question of the amendment proposed) The Temporary Chairperson (

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move- THAT the Bill be amended by inserting the following new clause immediately after the proposed New Clause 31H—

31Q. The trading activities at an exchange shall be compliant with relevant laws that deter unfair trading and anti-competitive practices.

Anti-corruption practices.

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move: THAT, Clause 43 of the Bill be amended in—

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move:

THAT, Clause 53 of the Bill be amended by deleting paragraph (b) and substituting therefor the following new paragraph—

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move- THAT the Bill be amended by inserting the following new clauses immediately after the proposed New Clause 31H— 31S. (1) The Board and the respective county executive committee members shall, by notice in the Gazette, appoint inspectors for the enforcement of the provisions of this Act.

Inspections

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move- THAT the Bill be amended by inserting the following new clauses immediately after the proposed New Clause 31H—

31T. (1) A person importing coffee into the country shall – Coffee imports to conform to standards

Division will be at the end. Clauses 61, 62, 63, 64 and 65 (Question, that Clauses 61, 62, 63, 64 and 65 be part of the Bill, proposed) Division will be at the end. Clause 66

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move: THAT, Clause 66 the Bill be amended in subclause (2) by—

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move: THAT, the Bill be amended by inserting the following new clause immediately after clause 2— objects

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move: THAT the Bill be amended by inserting the following New Clause immediately after Clause 27—

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move: THAT the Second Schedule be amended -

THAT the Bill be amended by inserting the following new Clauses immediately after New Clause 27A—

27B. (1) A person shall not operate as a cupping laboratory, liquorer, coffee buyer, coffee importer, agent or warehouse operator unless the person is licensed or issued a registration certificate or a permit by the Board upon satisfaction of the prescribed conditions. Requirements for certificates, licences and permit

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move: THAT the Bill be amended by inserting the following new Clauses immediately after new Clause 27B—

27C. A licence holder shall act in the best interest of coffee growers and adhere to prescribed conditions for the issuance of a licence and contractual obligations. Obligations of license holders

(Question, that New Clause 27C be

read a Second Time, proposed) (Question, that New Clause 27C be part of the Bill, proposed) The Temporary Chairperson (

Pursuant to Standing Order No.148 I move that the Committee of the Whole do report progress on its consideration of the Coffee Bill (Senate Bills No.22of 2020) and seek leave to sit again tomorrow.

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move: THAT the Bill be amended by inserting the following new Clauses immediately after new Clause 27C— 27D. A licence holder provider shall submit monthly returns to the relevant licensing authority in prescribed form. Returns (Question of New Clause 27D proposed) (New Clause 27D read the First Time) (Question, that New Clause 27D be read a Second Time, proposed) (Question, that New Clause 27D be part of the Bill, proposed) The Temporary Chairperson (

Division will be at the end. Clause 27E

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move: THAT the Bill be amended by inserting the following new Clauses immediately after new Clause 27D—

27E. (1) A person shall not transport clean coffee unless such person – Movement permits

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move: THAT the Bill be amended by inserting the following new clause immediately after clause 30— 30A. (1) Each county executive committee member shall submit to the Board, at the end of each month or within such timelines as may be agreed upon with the Board, a report on the registered and licensed coffee growers and dealers within the respective county. Submission of reports

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move: THAT the Bill be amended by inserting the following new heading immediately after Clause 31—

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move: THAT the Bill be amended by inserting the following new clauses immediately after Clause 31—

Madam Deputy Speaker, I beg to report that the Committee of the Whole has considered the Community Health Services Bill (Senate Bills No.34 of 2020) and seeks leave to sit again tomorrow.

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move: THAT the Bill be amended by inserting the following new clause immediately after Clause 31—

31C. (1) The Institute shall, in collaboration with the respective county executive committee member, undertake analysis of the farm inputs to ascertain compliance with the prescribed standards. Farm inputs

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move- THAT the Bill be amended by inserting the following new clause immediately after Clause 31—

31D. (1) A co-operative society comprising coffee growers shall keep and maintain a register of coffee growers and planting, uprooting the number of coffee trees planted or uprooted by each of coffee or change of its members in the prescribed form. Notification after planting, uprooting coffee or change of details of farm estate

Madam Deputy Speaker, I beg to report that the Committee of the Whole has considered the Parliamentary Powers and Privileges (Amendment) Bill (Senate Bills No.33 of 2020) and seeks leave to sit again tomorrow.

Madam Deputy Speaker, I beg to move that the House do agree with the Committee on the said report.

I request Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. to second.

Madam Deputy Speaker, I second.

The Division will be at the end. New Clause 31G

Madam Deputy Speaker, I beg to report that the Committee of the Whole has considered the National Flag, Emblems and Names (Amendment) Bill (Senate Bills No.36 of 2020) and seeks leave to sit again tomorrow.

Requirements relating to coffee traceability and disclosures.

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move- THAT the Bill be amended by inserting the following new clause immediately after Clause 31—

31H. (1) A coffee miller may bulk parchment or buni coffee of the same quality and characteristics in order to attain millable quantities.

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move: THAT the Bill be amended by inserting the following new heading immediately after the proposed New Clause 31H—

Madam Deputy Speaker, I beg to report progress that the Committee has considered the Coffee Bill (Senate Bills No. 22 of 2020) and seeks leave to sit again tomorrow.

Madam Deputy Speaker, I beg to Move that House do agree with the Committee on the same report and ask Sen. (Dr.) Milgo to second.

The Division will be at the end. New Clause 31I

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move: THAT the Bill be amended by inserting the following new clauses immediately after the proposed New Clause 31H—

31I. (1) Kenya Coffee may be offered for sale through— Coffee trading.

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move- THAT the Bill be amended by inserting the following new clauses immediately after the proposed New Clause 31H—

31J. (1) A licensed coffee grower may undertake, in the prescribed manner, a direct sale in coffee and may, for this purpose, sell own clean coffee to a licensed roaster for local value addition and sale. International and local direct coffee sales.

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move- THAT the Bill be amended by inserting the following new clause immediately after the proposed New Clause 31H—

31K. (1) There is established a body to be known as Nairobi Coffee Exchange for purposes of coffee of trading.

Establishment and functions of Nairobi coffee exchange

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move- THAT the Bill be amended by inserting the following new clauses immediately after the proposed New Clause 31H—

31L. (1) A broker or agent appointed by growers and other service providers shall not receive coffee sale proceeds on behalf of the growers.

Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr., I want you in your position so that I can respond to you. Sen. Kasanga was actually consulted earlier on in the day about this Bill and she said that she was far.

Madam Deputy Speaker, I have been on the phone with Sen. Kasanga. She requested me to be here. I was acting on behalf of the Chair of the Committee on Health. She requested me to come here and move it. In fact, she just called and wondered why her Bill was skipped and yet she is online.

Earlier on, we were informed that the sponsor of the Bill has to be here. There are other amendments that were not affected by the Committee, so I was only moving the Committee amendments. It is like there were two Movers. The Chairperson of the Committee moves the Committee amendments. Sen. Kasanga is online and has been calling me throughout.

I request that we deal with that Bill so that we do not have to delay it. Otherwise, I would have actually gone and---

The Division will be at the end. New Clause 31M

You realize that your request means that we reconvene the Committee of the Whole?

That is my request, Madam Deputy Speaker.

Sorry, Senator. We have just received a call from Sen. Kasanga. Further consultation has just taken place and she has accepted to do it on Tuesday. It will mean that we reconvene the Committee of the Whole. Sen. Olekina, we will see you here on Tuesday, and you will finish it. Please tell your Chairperson to get well soon. We have missed him in this House for a very long time.

We are now going back to Order No. 15.

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move- THAT the Bill be amended by inserting the following new clauses immediately after the proposed New Clause 31H—

31P. (1) A person who blends any or various grades of coffee produced in Kenya with any other coffees produced against outside Kenya shall declare the percentage of Kenyan blending.

Prohibition against blending.

Hon. Senators, I am waiting. My screen is back. Sen. Sakaja is not here. Sen. Chebeni still had 19 minutes, but for now let us go to Sen. (Dr.) Zani.

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move- THAT the Bill be amended by inserting the following new heading immediately after the proposed new clause 31Q—

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move- THAT the Bill be amended by inserting the following new clauses immediately after the proposed new clause 31Q— 31R. (1) The Board and the respective county executive

committee members shall collaborate in the enforcement of coffee industry standards along the value chain for purposes for coffee of quality assurance. Quality assurance for coffee industry

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. We cannot look at it as something that is punitive specifically only from the individuals. We have to look at it as something that will be punitive and help the individuals, but at the same time help the counties.

Madam Deputy Speaker, this is a Bill that has been discussed extensively by Sen. Farhiya and Sen. Sakaja. I congratulate them for this.

Madam Deputy Speaker, as you know the counties are our issues. We are here to protect the interests of the counties. This is one of those major interests. These major interventions through this Bill addresses this issue.

This Bill provides prompt payment for the supply of goods, works and services and for the connected purposes within the specific counties.

Right through the whole Bill, it is clear that the object is to put a legal framework to facilitate prompt payment for supply of goods, works and services procured by Government entities both national and at the county.

I am happy that it is covering a broad spectrum so that we do not have a situation where one entity says that it has been covered by the Bill, but another says otherwise. This enables everybody to be all put in a situation where payment of bills as something serious.

In Clause 10, the penalty of Kshs5 million or less and up to five years imprisonment is punitive enough. Of course, the discretion is up to the judge. However, there is a penalty of Kshs5 million depending on the amounts accrued. Therefore, we expect that the penalties and accruing interests will put off people from delaying in the payment of the services that they have acquired.

The application of this Act is clear. It shall apply to the payment due to all goods, works and services procured by the national Government, county governments and private entities.

Clause 4 is the most important. It states that-

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move- THAT the Bill be amended by inserting the following new clauses immediately after the proposed New Clause 31H—

31T. (1) A person importing coffee into the country shall – Coffee imports to conform to standards

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move- THAT the Bill be amended by inserting the following new clause immediately after Clause 32—

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move: 60A. (1) The Board and each county executive committee member shall automate their operations for the efficient delivery of services and dissemination of information within the coffee sector. Digitization

On a point of information.

I would like to be informed. Sen. Sakaja Madam Temporary Speaker, I appreciate Sen. (Dr.) Zani. I just want to inform her that Oscar Wilde once said that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

This Bill came before BBI. In fact, when BBI was being published, we had gone to the Third Stage and then they said that part of the Bill is the Prompt Payment Bill. So, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery and it is also an accolade to the Senate. So, thank you, Sen. (Dr.) Zani.

For the record, let it be known that we did not take it from BBI, they took it from us.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I do not know why Sen. Sakaja thought I said, what he thinks he heard me say that BBI took it from them. I was clear because this came to the Senate long before. I said that it is one of the Bills that was co- opted into the BBI process like many others in bits and details to address an important issue.

For example, in the National Assembly the whole idea of ensuring that the name of the CS will revert to Ministers means having a presence in the House. This idea had already been generated at various times. So, we are all working together to enhance this. I congratulate Sen. Sakaja and Sen. Farhiya for this Bill.

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move- THAT the Bill be amended by deleting the long title and substituting therefor the following new long title— AN ACT of Parliament to provide for establishment of the Coffee Board of Kenya, and the Coffee Research Institute; to provide for the role of the National and the county governments; to provide for the regulation, development and promotion of the coffee industry; and for connected purposes. (Question of the amendment proposed) Long Title The Temporary Chairperson (

Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr., proceed.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I rise to support this Prompt Payment Bill, 2021. I will be brief so that we can allow the Mover to reply before we rise. This Bill is good and I congratulate both Sen. Farhiya and Sen. Sakaja, but it is unfortunate. This is because we have gotten to a place where we have to get into the details of doing business in this format. It is terrible. I was among the first students to study the business studies curriculum when it was introduced sometime in the 1980s. This is not what it was meant to be. There are things that they Call Cash on Delivery (COD) .

The Public Finance Management Act, that you, the Committee on Finance and I have been belabouring time and again says you cannot procure unless you have a budget. Now we are prescribing when people should be paid. It is wrong. Let me tell you what the tragedy about this is. County and national entities have made it impossible for people to get payments so that they can get handouts. Whether it is Nairobi, Makueni, Machakos, or Kisumu County, they refuse to pay so that you can go and look for them. There are cartels.

Madam Temporary Speaker, the biggest losers are young people. Young people are not interested in doing business with counties because you will be requested for a 10 per cent before you do the procurement and when you will be issued with the first certificate. By the time you are due for the third payment, they have bankrupted you. I have seen contractors in Makueni County who are saying we do not want to trade with you. If you collect money from a bank and you pay 13 per cent interest, actually it is the bank that benefits from contracts that are given to people in this country. It is not traders.

It is so unfortunate and sad that it has come to this. If a person wanted to trade and Sen. Sakaja and Sen. Farhiya have suggested this should cover national government. If somebody wanted to look at our business structure out there in the diaspora and found things like this, they would not invest. It is discouraging because we have prescribed in detail that you know you have to be paid. Your invoice is not ready, come and correct. That is wrong.

Madam Temporary Speaker, if there is one credit I would give Gov. (Prof.) Kibwana it is not having pending bills. The rest of the governors, including my friend Sen. Sakaja, who wants to be the governor of Nairobi City County will inherit pending bills. The first thing he will do is hide himself because the contractors will be on his neck. He will to have an office somewhere not in City Hall.

His friend Gov. Sonko did not have an office in Upper Hill because there was something wrong at City Hall. It is because you cannot sit there. People are on your neck. There are decrees upon decrees. There are garnishee orders upon garnishee orders on the County Government of Nairobi City. Governors are opening multiplicities of accounts because of garnishee orders. Should it not be a part of our national ethos that if somebody gives you a service, you pay?

Madam Temporary Speaker, you are a lawyer like me. You know we are actually paid before we even do the work. We request for deposits before we even see the client. That should be the ethos. While I support this Bill, and the reason why even politicians are coming up with all sorts of economics, up down, bottoms up, middle up, wide and apart, sideways and funny things. It is because of these things. You deny the young people money. You make sure they are not paid for little things.

Some gentleman has been chasing me in Nairobi here. He supplied beds at Pumwani Hospital and he has not been paid since 2014. People have committed suicide. I know of one family in Machakos County. The lady just committed suicide. It is absolutely sad that you have not prescribed penalties for people who delay people’s payments. There should be penalties. Those penalties should not be borne by the people of that county. If you prescribe a penalty here like Sen. Sakaja has proposed, eventually the people of Makueni County bear the burden of the mistake and misbehaviour of credit officers.

Madam Temporary Speaker, we should find a method, Sen. Sakaja, of making sure that this is personal penalty. It is the only way. Surcharge that person’s salary. Go to the Public Finance Management Act and say this is what we call a mistake so that then they do not do these things. I bother to say that these mistakes and delays are done deliberately so that utoe kitu kidogo. It is wrong. I hope this can become law and I hope we will get a good Government.

I pray because when you get a good Government with proper national ethos, you do not need to do this. I pray that we can have a good President who can understand what business means and deals. Somebody gives you service, pay them promptly. That is what we are looking forward to. I am praying Sen. Sakaja now that I have been seeing him with the Presidential aspirant every place. They should start talking about these things so that we can give incentives for people to borrow, get credit and do business and continue doing business.

Madam Temporary Speaker, M-Shwari is the most popular platform for people who are doing menial jobs like in Nyamakima. I do not know whether you are aware that between 3.00 a.m. and 5.00 a.m. the highest transactions happen during that hour because they are buying eggs, potatoes and vegetables to go and sell them. It becomes easier to even borrow from Safaricom. It is a very sad thing. I hope that we can help these counties.

I pray that I am elected as governor. This is because I will make sure that I do it. You do your service, when it is due, you make the payment. That is how we will translate young people. That is my dream to translate young people to quick millionaires for doing proper business. That is the only way we will make sure that young people are not taken advantage of by us the political class.

I support.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I rise to support this timely Prompt Payment Bill 2021. Let me begin by congratulating my dear brother Sen. Sakaja and my sister Sen. Farhiya for doing something to try and bring sanity into the business world. Worldwide, there are Prompt Payment Acts. I know in the US, there are different things

Pursuant to Standing Order No.148 I move that the Committee of the Whole do report progress on its consideration of the Coffee Bill (Senate Bills No.22of 2020) and seek leave to sit again tomorrow.

Hon. Senators, we will now get reports from the Committee of the Whole. Proceed, Chairperson.

Mover, Sen. Sakaja, proceed.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I did not want to interrupt Sen. Olekina. I am grateful for his submissions and those of Sen. Farhiya who moved and Sen. Were who seconded. I also thank Sen. Chebeni in absentia. She really wanted to contribute, but I think she had a matter to attend to elsewhere. I thank Sen. (Dr.) Zani, Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. and Sen. Olekina.

I would like to give Sen. (Dr.) Zani time to start moving her Bill. However, the point I did not want to bring in because of time is that we have provided for interest. Sen. Olekina will be happy to know that. Clause 4 (2) says-

Thank you Senators for the contributions. As requested, I defer the putting of the question on that Bill until it appears on the Order Paper next time.

We are going to defer Order Nos. 16, 17, and 18. Second Reading

Let us have a seconder.

Madam Deputy Speaker, I second.

Madam Deputy Speaker, I beg to report that the Committee of the Whole has considered the Community Health Services Bill (Senate Bills No.34 of 2020) and seeks leave to sit again tomorrow.

Madam Deputy Speaker, I beg to move that the House do agree with the Committee on the said report and request Sen. Olekina to second.

Madam Deputy Speaker, I second.

Madam Deputy Speaker, I beg to report that the Committee of the Whole has considered the Parliamentary Powers and Privileges (Amendment) Bill (Senate Bills No.33 of 2020) and seeks leave to sit again tomorrow.

Madam Deputy Speaker, I beg to move that the House do agree with the Committee on the said report.

I request Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. to second.

Madam Deputy Speaker, I second.

Madam Deputy Speaker, I beg to report that the Committee of the Whole has considered the National Flag, Emblems and Names (Amendment) Bill (Senate Bills No.36 of 2020) and seeks leave to sit again tomorrow.

Madam Deputy Speaker, I beg to move that the House do agree with the Committee on the said report and request Sen. (Dr.) Milgo to second.

Madam Deputy Speaker, I second.

The last Bill is the Coffee Bill (Senate Bills No. 22 of 2020) .

Madam Deputy Speaker, I beg to report progress that the Committee has considered the Coffee Bill (Senate Bills No. 22 of 2020) and seeks leave to sit again tomorrow.

Madam Deputy Speaker, I beg to Move that House do agree with the Committee on the same report and ask Sen. (Dr.) Milgo to second.

Madam Deputy Speaker, I second.

Yes, Mutula Kilonzo Jnr.

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. As the Senate Minority Whip, it has come to my attention that Sen. Kasanga was online for purposes for Committee of the Whole on the Mental Health Bill. However, the Order was skipped due to her absence. I do not know whether we have an opportunity of reorganizing the Order Paper, because the Mover is here, seated next to me, and Sen. Kasanga is online.

Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr., was it processed in the Committee of the Whole?

Madam Deputy Speaker, it was not processed on the ground that Sen. Kasanga was absent, but we have now learnt that she was actually online. We need your direction.

Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr., I want you in your position so that I can respond to you. Sen. Kasanga was actually consulted earlier on in the day about this Bill and she said that she was far.

Madam Deputy Speaker, I have been on the phone with Sen. Kasanga. She requested me to be here. I was acting on behalf of the Chair of the Committee on Health. She requested me to come here and move it. In fact, she just called and wondered why her Bill was skipped and yet she is online.

Earlier on, we were informed that the sponsor of the Bill has to be here. There are other amendments that were not affected by the Committee, so I was only moving the Committee amendments. It is like there were two Movers. The Chairperson of the Committee moves the Committee amendments. Sen. Kasanga is online and has been calling me throughout.

I request that we deal with that Bill so that we do not have to delay it. Otherwise, I would have actually gone and---

You realize that your request means that we reconvene the Committee of the Whole?

That is my request, Madam Deputy Speaker.

Sorry, Senator. We have just received a call from Sen. Kasanga. Further consultation has just taken place and she has accepted to do it on Tuesday. It will mean that we reconvene the Committee of the Whole. Sen. Olekina, we will see you here on Tuesday, and you will finish it. Please tell your Chairperson to get well soon. We have missed him in this House for a very long time.

We are now going back to Order No. 15.

Hon. Senators, I am waiting. My screen is back. Sen. Sakaja is not here. Sen. Chebeni still had 19 minutes, but for now let us go to Sen. (Dr.) Zani.

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I wish to support this Bill. This is one of the most important Bills we have ever had in the Senate because it addresses the issue of bills, procurement, services, the payment for those services and the delay therein.

You are aware that many families and households have suffered over time. They have even taken out loans and investments, they procured and gave services to our counties, and then the payment does not come on time. It is known to many of us that people have lost their houses and farms because they made these investments with the county.

Madam Deputy Speaker, you will remember that in the various arguments we have had, the key issue about pending bills has been very critical within the counties. This is a matter that is been addressed over and over again. The question is how do these bills accrue when right from the beginning, there is a budget that has been put forth and a certain amount of money that should be spent?

Secondly, the Controller of Budget should give out this money and trace how it is used. I remember even right from 2013, the issue of the Integrated Financial Management System (IFMIS) has always been a question. Time and time again, we arrive at a situation where people who do not want to provide services to the counties anymore. I know of some cases where people were coming forth to ask how I can help them. They supplied to

a school, they gave foodstuff to the county, they gave different things to a government and private entity and they were not paid.

This Bill creates the idea of interest, so that there is a penalty for the institutions or the individuals who do not pay the money on time so that there is an element of a pinch. It is not just the supplier who will suffer as a result of the delay. It means that the county will have to pay people the accrued interest and they will have to pay more bills. It seems like a punitive Bill, but I do not think it is. If you look at it as punitive from the side of those who owe the Bills---

Please, let us pay attention to that very good contribution.

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. We cannot look at it as something that is punitive specifically only from the individuals. We have to look at it as something that will be punitive and help the individuals, but at the same time help the counties.

Madam Deputy Speaker, this is a Bill that has been discussed extensively by Sen. Farhiya and Sen. Sakaja. I congratulate them for this.

Madam Deputy Speaker, as you know the counties are our issues. We are here to protect the interests of the counties. This is one of those major interests. These major interventions through this Bill addresses this issue.

This Bill provides prompt payment for the supply of goods, works and services and for the connected purposes within the specific counties.

Right through the whole Bill, it is clear that the object is to put a legal framework to facilitate prompt payment for supply of goods, works and services procured by Government entities both national and at the county.

I am happy that it is covering a broad spectrum so that we do not have a situation where one entity says that it has been covered by the Bill, but another says otherwise. This enables everybody to be all put in a situation where payment of bills as something serious.

In Clause 10, the penalty of Kshs5 million or less and up to five years imprisonment is punitive enough. Of course, the discretion is up to the judge. However, there is a penalty of Kshs5 million depending on the amounts accrued. Therefore, we expect that the penalties and accruing interests will put off people from delaying in the payment of the services that they have acquired.

The application of this Act is clear. It shall apply to the payment due to all goods, works and services procured by the national Government, county governments and private entities.

Clause 4 is the most important. It states that-

“A procurement entity shall pay a supplier by the prescribed payment date”. Most of the times after offering services, there is no clear indication of when payment will be done. A person is told to come tomorrow or next week. So, this Bill initiates and put into motion some level of definiteness where we have the prescribed dates and the payment dates. So, this ensures that anybody who is to pay a bill has to do it on time.

Clause 4(2) is critical. A person who fails to pay this particular supply will accrue a specific interest. That interest will be charged and calculated. There is also a mechanism for engagement at various levels to ensure that these bills are paid on time.

The payment is on the basis of first come, first served. Clause 5 provides clarity on how to deal with bills and payment that have to be done which is on first come, first served basis.

Many times, other people who have made their claims later get paid before probably because they have connections, are more assertive, are able to make their case be felt better or are louder. That is why people keep checking for each other for help to get the money. So, provision for a first come, first serve basis is important.

Clause 9 deals with declaration of pending payments. It states that- “A person who wishes to enter into a contract for the supply, works at national or county governments shall make a declaration to the accounting officer of the entity on any pending payments owed by a small or macro enterprise” The clarity of making this particular claim becomes clear at that Clause. That declaration shall also be made in writing. Therefore, not only do we have a definite date but also a prescription for the processes. So, in that particular declaration, details that will be given on when the outstanding payment fell due have to be put forward.

Madam Deputy Speaker, I can imagine the situation that the relevant office will be dealing with. There will be files of applications coming through. So, it is important to have clear details.

Many times when people are seeking for information or payment, sometimes the information flow is problematic. However, at Clause 9, it is clearly put.

A person will have to indicate the details of when the outstanding payment fell due, the reasons for the delay and any agreements that have been entered into by the supplier and the procuring entity. This will help the process of engagement.

Madam Deputy Speaker, I am winding up because this is a Bill that we will discuss extensively. I also want to give my colleagues time to contribute.

We should appreciate the level of target for this Bill. Prompt payment should be something that we can engage into without a problem as move away from a past where it has been difficult to have this sort of prompt payment.

Towards the end of the Bill in Clause 11, the whole idea of a Cabinet Secretary (CS) who will be making regulations to provide for better carrying out of effect of this Bill becomes critical. This is because at that level, this is an official who will have an overarching idea about how the various entities are interacting. He or she will also engage with Council of Governors (CoGs) to find out what the problem is and the relevant Committee and will call on board the various County Executive Committee

(CEC) Member, if it is at the county level and at the individual level, call the relevant people.

This interaction of giving them responsibility to make regulations will help this Bill to have regulations that will help it to be easily enacted. Those mechanisms are critical. Therefore, they will put this into the fore.

During the Building Bridges Initiative (BBI) process, this is one of the Bills that stood out as Bills moving forward on how to enhance county neatness and national engagement in terms of prompt payment.

If we do not have prompt payment, then we do not have systems that can work even on a social-economic model. We cannot have a macro economic model that can work with people who are discouraged because they will not be paid on time and, therefore, there is no necessary circulation that is important to come on board.

Hon. Senator, there is an interruption.

On a point of information.

I would like to be informed. Sen. Sakaja Madam Temporary Speaker, I appreciate Sen. (Dr.) Zani. I just want to inform her that Oscar Wilde once said that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

This Bill came before BBI. In fact, when BBI was being published, we had gone to the Third Stage and then they said that part of the Bill is the Prompt Payment Bill. So, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery and it is also an accolade to the Senate. So, thank you, Sen. (Dr.) Zani.

For the record, let it be known that we did not take it from BBI, they took it from us.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I do not know why Sen. Sakaja thought I said, what he thinks he heard me say that BBI took it from them. I was clear because this came to the Senate long before. I said that it is one of the Bills that was co- opted into the BBI process like many others in bits and details to address an important issue.

For example, in the National Assembly the whole idea of ensuring that the name of the CS will revert to Ministers means having a presence in the House. This idea had already been generated at various times. So, we are all working together to enhance this. I congratulate Sen. Sakaja and Sen. Farhiya for this Bill.

As it moves to being enacted as law, we will help address an important and critical issue for the development of both the national and county governments and the country as a whole.

I support.

Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr., proceed.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I rise to support this Prompt Payment Bill, 2021. I will be brief so that we can allow the Mover to reply before we rise. This Bill is good and I congratulate both Sen. Farhiya and Sen. Sakaja, but it is unfortunate. This is because we have gotten to a place where we have to get into the details of doing business in this format. It is terrible. I was among the first students to study the business studies curriculum when it was introduced sometime in the 1980s. This is not what it was meant to be. There are things that they Call Cash on Delivery (COD) .

The Public Finance Management Act, that you, the Committee on Finance and I have been belabouring time and again says you cannot procure unless you have a budget. Now we are prescribing when people should be paid. It is wrong. Let me tell you what the tragedy about this is. County and national entities have made it impossible for people to get payments so that they can get handouts. Whether it is Nairobi, Makueni, Machakos, or Kisumu County, they refuse to pay so that you can go and look for them. There are cartels.

Madam Temporary Speaker, the biggest losers are young people. Young people are not interested in doing business with counties because you will be requested for a 10 per cent before you do the procurement and when you will be issued with the first certificate. By the time you are due for the third payment, they have bankrupted you. I have seen contractors in Makueni County who are saying we do not want to trade with you. If you collect money from a bank and you pay 13 per cent interest, actually it is the bank that benefits from contracts that are given to people in this country. It is not traders.

It is so unfortunate and sad that it has come to this. If a person wanted to trade and Sen. Sakaja and Sen. Farhiya have suggested this should cover national government. If somebody wanted to look at our business structure out there in the diaspora and found things like this, they would not invest. It is discouraging because we have prescribed in detail that you know you have to be paid. Your invoice is not ready, come and correct. That is wrong.

Madam Temporary Speaker, if there is one credit I would give Gov. (Prof.) Kibwana it is not having pending bills. The rest of the governors, including my friend Sen. Sakaja, who wants to be the governor of Nairobi City County will inherit pending bills. The first thing he will do is hide himself because the contractors will be on his neck. He will to have an office somewhere not in City Hall.

His friend Gov. Sonko did not have an office in Upper Hill because there was something wrong at City Hall. It is because you cannot sit there. People are on your neck. There are decrees upon decrees. There are garnishee orders upon garnishee orders on the County Government of Nairobi City. Governors are opening multiplicities of accounts because of garnishee orders. Should it not be a part of our national ethos that if somebody gives you a service, you pay?

Madam Temporary Speaker, you are a lawyer like me. You know we are actually paid before we even do the work. We request for deposits before we even see the client. That should be the ethos. While I support this Bill, and the reason why even politicians are coming up with all sorts of economics, up down, bottoms up, middle up, wide and apart, sideways and funny things. It is because of these things. You deny the young people money. You make sure they are not paid for little things.

Some gentleman has been chasing me in Nairobi here. He supplied beds at Pumwani Hospital and he has not been paid since 2014. People have committed suicide. I know of one family in Machakos County. The lady just committed suicide. It is absolutely sad that you have not prescribed penalties for people who delay people’s payments. There should be penalties. Those penalties should not be borne by the people of that county. If you prescribe a penalty here like Sen. Sakaja has proposed, eventually the people of Makueni County bear the burden of the mistake and misbehaviour of credit officers.

Madam Temporary Speaker, we should find a method, Sen. Sakaja, of making sure that this is personal penalty. It is the only way. Surcharge that person’s salary. Go to the Public Finance Management Act and say this is what we call a mistake so that then they do not do these things. I bother to say that these mistakes and delays are done deliberately so that utoe kitu kidogo. It is wrong. I hope this can become law and I hope we will get a good Government.

I pray because when you get a good Government with proper national ethos, you do not need to do this. I pray that we can have a good President who can understand what business means and deals. Somebody gives you service, pay them promptly. That is what we are looking forward to. I am praying Sen. Sakaja now that I have been seeing him with the Presidential aspirant every place. They should start talking about these things so that we can give incentives for people to borrow, get credit and do business and continue doing business.

Madam Temporary Speaker, M-Shwari is the most popular platform for people who are doing menial jobs like in Nyamakima. I do not know whether you are aware that between 3.00 a.m. and 5.00 a.m. the highest transactions happen during that hour because they are buying eggs, potatoes and vegetables to go and sell them. It becomes easier to even borrow from Safaricom. It is a very sad thing. I hope that we can help these counties.

I pray that I am elected as governor. This is because I will make sure that I do it. You do your service, when it is due, you make the payment. That is how we will translate young people. That is my dream to translate young people to quick millionaires for doing proper business. That is the only way we will make sure that young people are not taken advantage of by us the political class.

I support.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I rise to support this timely Prompt Payment Bill 2021. Let me begin by congratulating my dear brother Sen. Sakaja and my sister Sen. Farhiya for doing something to try and bring sanity into the business world. Worldwide, there are Prompt Payment Acts. I know in the US, there are different things

that are prescribed in the Prompt Payment Act. What is not prescribed in the Prompt Payment Act which I think that my dear brother Sen. Sakaja ought to do it first is the issue of paying interests by a government agency that fails to pay a contractor on time.

My biggest problem with this issue of delayed payments has got to do with the trickledown effect. When a Government agency fails to pay a contractor, that contractor does not pay the subcontractor. It trickles down and affects an economy of the county or even the country.

Madam Temporary Speaker, it is sad that counties are procuring services from vendors and contractors knowing they do not have a budget. Most county and national governments are led by politicians. So, they may want to appease their people that they are actually bringing in development, when we know that they are not. What they are doing is killing the economy. It is sad. Some of these things should be made criminal.

I propose to Sen. Sakaja that he should do a first in the world. These Government entities should now start paying interest because most of us take loans from financial institutions. This is a commercial transaction, but governments are not penalized an interest. I think it is about time that just like the way Government entities charge us interest when we delay to remit our statutory deductions, that should also apply to Government agencies that do not pay contractors when payments are due.

I do not see the reason why Government agencies should continue to enjoy the monopoly where they owe you money and can choose to pay you in 10 years. We should all be uniform because they have chosen to procure a service. They have said they have money. If they do not have it, they should not be allowed to procure.

For us to be more effective and for this Bill to make sense when it becomes an Act of Parliament, I think we now need to ensure that even the Controller of Budget (CoB) and the National Treasury are part of the entire process. If you read the current Insurance Act and the Human Resource Management handbook and Articles 233 and 237, it gives the National Treasury the power to withhold money from entities that do not provide health and life insurance cover to their employees. This is mostly in the public service. Soon, I will be bringing a statement to this effect.

Madam Temporary Speaker, you find many teachers who do not have riba or health or life insurance. The National Treasury has the power to stop the money of an entity from being disbursed if they do not show in their budget that they have covered all their employees.

Sen. Sakaja should now look at introducing an amendment that before the CoB releases any money to county governments, they must show that they have paid 100 per cent of their Bills. I have always been on record saying there is no reason why a county government should have a pending bill. You procure and you have a budget. You cannot just come out of the blues with a budget which you do not have money to fund and proceed to procure.

County assemblies should also play their role. They should ensure that the budget they approve is equivalent to the money that either the Senate has sent to county governments or their own source revenue. To make sure this Prompt Payment Bill becomes more effective in helping the business community, the CoB and the National

Treasury must also play a role to ensure that they only release money to counties that do not have pending bills.

Counties complain a lot that the National Treasury delays in releasing their funds. When they do so, they make these claims that they only have money to pay salaries. If they continue to have that as a continuous problem affecting them, then they should not procure any services. They should continue to pay salaries if the only money they are getting is for salaries.

As I support this Bill, I would like to end by saying that this will only become effective and meaningful to the citizens out there who are now languishing in poverty because Government entities have not paid for the services they have already provided. If you introduce an element of interest, this Government should start paying interest. There is no reason why I should be penalized by the Kenya Revenue Authority (KRA) for late submission of my taxes, yet KRA should not pay me for refusing to pay me on time. Introduce an element of interest. That is the only way we can help our citizens.

Finally, I thank Sen. Sakaja again for doing the obvious. In a supermarket, you will not be given anything on credit. You pay and you are given what you have bought. If county governments are unable to ascertain what has been done, then they should introduce a draw down system where documents are exchanged. So, you do not have to know me to pay me for what you I have provided. I tendered, you awarded me the tender, I have done my job and so, everything should be electronic. Let me get my money through the bank and then I can pay my sub-contractors.

I support and I hope this becomes an Act of Parliament.

Mover, Sen. Sakaja, proceed.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I did not want to interrupt Sen. Olekina. I am grateful for his submissions and those of Sen. Farhiya who moved and Sen. Were who seconded. I also thank Sen. Chebeni in absentia. She really wanted to contribute, but I think she had a matter to attend to elsewhere. I thank Sen. (Dr.) Zani, Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. and Sen. Olekina.

I would like to give Sen. (Dr.) Zani time to start moving her Bill. However, the point I did not want to bring in because of time is that we have provided for interest. Sen. Olekina will be happy to know that. Clause 4 (2) says-

Thank you Senators for the contributions. As requested, I defer the putting of the question on that Bill until it appears on the Order Paper next time.

We are going to defer Order Nos. 16, 17, and 18. Second Reading

Madam Temporary Speaker, I beg to move that the Natural Resources (Benefit Sharing) Bill (Senate Bills No.25 of 2020) be read a Second Time.

Let me start by thanking Members of various committees of this Senate who have looked at this Bill over time. I appreciate the way we have navigated our space and try to make changes to ensure that this Bill achieves what it intends which is sharing of natural resources.

We know there is no county that is not gifted with natural resources because we have natural resources in every county. By having those natural resources, communities always hope to attain something.

Every time I visit various institutions, companies and organisations that are in the process of processing natural resources in the counties--- Sometimes we refer to it as “exploiting natural resources” not in the negative sense but as they exploit, they bring something positive. We are aware about the curse in Nigeria where there is a lot of wealth but also high level of poverty. That is the reality with us.

When I travel around the country, I visit counties just to see what is happening. In many cases, there are issues of communities benefitting. I am not talking about royalties. That is why I did not use “royalties” in the Bill but “benefits sharing” so that it can be interpreted in the broader sense of the word in terms of negotiations.

Various important entities at the local community, county and national level are outlined in this Bill. For example, it talks about the Kenya Revenue Authority (KRA) which will ensure that we have a system to coordinate collection of resources so that they are shared at various levels.

This Bill also proposes to establish a Sovereign Fund where 20 per cent will come from the national Government. That is what many countries do because people benefit from natural resources for generations. There are generations that have gone but we are here to keep them for the generations to come. We will have allocations at various percentages to ensure that people benefit.

The Mining Act that was debated in the National Assembly did not have provision for distribution of resources. Later on, they did. We do not have the mining sector alone but there are so many other sectors. For example, we have forestry, sunlight and water. It is important to have legislation on all these. That is why the Natural Resources (Benefit Sharing) Bill is important.

In Clause 3, the Bill highlights various natural resources. They include sunlight, water resources, forests, biodiversity and genetic resources, wildlife resources, industrial fishing and wind. In the previous version of this Bill, we talked about natural resources that might be introduced in the future. In this Bill, we have only dealt with one component.

How do you manage that at the national level? You need to have an overarching body. Before we had an authority in place--- In ensuring that we do not have too much fiscal responsibility---

Hon. Senator, we are going to stop you at that point. You will have a balance of 55 minutes next time the Bill is listed.