Thursday, 29th February, 2024

Clerk, do we have quorum? Serjeant-at-Arms, kindly ring the Quorum Bell for 10 minutes.

Majority Leader, they are outside the Chamber. Serjeant-at-Arms, stop the Bell. We now have quorum.

Sen. Sifuna, you are totally out of order. However, you will go with a caution for now.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, these were our gracious hosts for 2023 Senate Mashinani. We had a beautiful time in the great County of Turkana; the cradle of mankind. They took care of the entire Senate in that one-week period.

They have found time today to come and visit our House and learn one or two things about how this Senate operates. It is expected that the Offices of the Clerk and the Speaker will accord them all the necessary facilitation that they need to enjoy to their fullest all that pertains to their learning.

I welcome the delegation from Turkana County and wish them well. When you go back home, please, pass our regards as a Senate. We are still grateful because of the great one week that we had in the beautiful land of Turkana.

Next Order.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to lay the following Papers on the Table of the Senate today, Thursday, 29th February, 2024-

Report of the Auditor-General on Financial Statement of Wajir County Revolving Fund for the year ended 30th June, 2017.

Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statement of Wajir County Revolving Fund for the year ended 30th June, 2018.

Report of the Auditor-General on Financial Statement of Wajir County Revolving Fund for the year ended 30th June, 2019.

Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statement of Wajir County Revolving Fund for the year ended 30th June, 2020.

Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statement of Wajir County Revolving Fund for the year ended 30th June, 2021.

Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statement of Wajir County Revolving Fund for the year ended 30th June, 2022.

Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statement of Wajir County Executive for the year ended 30th June, 2023.

Report of the Auditor-General on Financial Statement of Wajir County Assembly for the year ended 30th June, 2023.

Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statement of Wajir County Climate Change Fund for the year ended 30th June, 2023.

Report of the Auditor-General on Financial Statement of Wajir County Government – County Revenue Fund for the year ended 30th June, 2023.

Report of the Auditor-General on Financial Statement of Wajir County Government – Receiver of Revenue – Revenue Statements for the year ended 30th June,

There is also a report to be tabled by Sen. Mumma.

I am tabling on behalf of Sen. Mumma.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to lay the following Paper on the Table of the Senate today, Thursday, 29th February, 2024-

Report of the 147th Assembly of the Inter-Parliamentary Union (IPU) and related meetings held in Luanda, Angola on 23rd to 27th October, 2023.

The next Papers are by the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Devolution and Intergovernmental Relations.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to lay the following Papers on the Table of the Senate today, Thursday, 29th February, 2024-

Clerk, let us go to the next Order.

Senate Majority Leader, now that you have laid that Report on the Table, you may proceed to give Notice on the same.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to give Notice of the following Motion-

THAT, the Senate notes the Report of 147th Assembly of the Inter- Parliamentary Union (IPU) and related meetings held in Luanda, Angola on 23rd to 27th October, 2023, laid on the Table of the Senate on Thursday 29th February,

Sen. Kathuri, please, proceed.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to give Notice of the following Motion- THAT, the Senate notes the Report of the 63rd Session of the OACPS Parliamentary Assembly and 43rd Session of the ACP-EU Joint Parliamentary Assembly Meetings in Brussels, Belgium laid on the Table of Senate on Wednesday, 6th December, 2023.

Clerk, let us move on to the next Order.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise pursuant to---

Order, Sen. Sifuna, Sen. Oketch Gicheru and Sen. Olekina, you may consult, but keep it on the low tone.

Sen. Chute, proceed.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.53 (1) to seek a Statement from the Standing Committee on Finance and Budget regarding expenditure of funds in Marsabit County. In the Statement, the Committee should-

Let us now have the Statement by the Senate Majority Leader pursuant to Standing Order No.57 (1) .

Mr. Speaker, Sir, pursuant to Standing Order No.57 (1) , I hereby present to the Senate the business of the House for the week commencing Tuesday, 5th March, 2024.

There are 34 Bills at Second Reading and four at the Committee of the Whole stage. Two of the Bills at the Second Reading stage have being listed for Division in today’s Order Paper at Order Nos.12 and 13. I request Majority and Minority Whips to mobilise the requisite number of county delegations for the Divisions to be undertaken.

At Orders Nos.14 and 15 in today’s Order Paper, two Motions on consideration and adoption of reports of the Select Committee on County Public Investments and Special Funds have also been listed. I request the Speaker to give these Motions priority in the order of proceedings today to facilitate expeditious conclusion on them. I also request Senators to remain in the Chamber during debate on these Motions, so that we conclude on them before the rise of the House today.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, on Petitions, a total of 22 Petitions are pending conclusion by respective Standing Committees. The summary of the committees that are yet to conclude the Petitions is as follows -

Senate Standing Committee on Agriculture, I see Sen. (Dr.) Murango is here, the Chairperson of the Committee, you have two Petitions that are due for reporting.

The Standing Committee on Education, the Chairperson, Sen. Joe Nyutu, was here a few minutes ago. He has two Petitions.

The Standing Committee Energy. I have forgotten the Chairperson, but they have one Petition. Sen. Sifuna, you are a Member of this particular Committee. You have a Petition that is due for reporting.

The Standing Committee on Finance and Budget has one Petition. The Standing Committee on Health has one Petition.

The Standing Committee on Land, Environment and Natural Resources has eight Petitions; that is the Committee of Sen. Methu who I do not see in the House today, but I believe there are many Members of that Committee. They have eight Petitions that are due for reporting.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I urge Members of this Committee to do justice to the petitioners that have come before them by concluding on these eight petitions.

The Standing Committee on National Security, some quite several Members are here. I do not see Sen. Cheptumo, but they have four Petitions due for reporting. When I say due for reporting, I mean they have overshot the Statutory 60-days period within which committees are supposed to report to the House.

The Committee on Roads, Transportation and Housing has two Petitions. The Committee on Trade and Industrialisation, I see the Chairperson, Sen. Seki, is here. They have one Petition.

In total, there are 22 Petitions. I request these committees to conclude these Petitions within the shortest time and table their reports so that Kenyans can continue to have faith and trust in this House.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, at the Senate Business Committee (SBC) meeting held on Tuesday, 27th February 2024, the Committee approved the next set of Questions for reply on Wednesday, 6th March 2024. The summary of these Questions and the Cabinet Secretaries to appear on that day are as follows -

Question No.10 by Sen. (Prof.) Tom Ojienda Odhiambo, SC, to the Cabinet Secretary for Roads and Transport with regard to road accidents involving tractors transporting sugarcane in Kisumu County.

Question No.11 by Sen. Cherarkey to the Cabinet Secretary of Roads and Transport on the financial performance of Kenya Airways.

Question No.12 by Sen. Cherarkey to the Cabinet Secretary for Roads and Transport on the status of the ongoing projects and expansion of Kerenga Airstrip in Kericho Town.

Question No.13 by Sen. Cherarkey to the Cabinet Secretary for Roads and Transport on the status of roads and construction projects in Nandi County.

Question No.14 by Sen. Wambua to the Cabinet Secretary for Roads and Transport on compensation arising from the construction of the Kibwezi-Athi-Mutomo- Kitui-Miwani Road.

Question No.15 by Sen. Wambua to the Cabinet Secretary for Roads and Transport with regard to an airstrip in Kitui.

Question No.16 by Sen. Kathuri with regard to pending bills on the Kenya Urban Roads Authority (KURA) and Kenya National Highway Authority (KeNHA) in Kenya. Question No.21 by Sen. Sifuna to the Cabinet Secretary of National Treasury and Economic Planning on economic planning failure by a citizen to process payment made to some Government institutions.

Question No.25 by Sen. (Dr.) Murango to the Cabinet Secretary for Gender, Culture, and Arts on the establishment of county libraries.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I hope that we can conclude on these Questions. You do note that this week, though we had only two Cabinet Secretaries, they took quite a long time because of the interest from Members. Though not a bad thing, it will present a challenge with regard to planning.

In conclusion, on Monday, 4th March 2024, the Senate will hold a one-day routine non-residential retreat to plan for the 3rd Session. I cannot overemphasise the importance of this event in facilitating the effective discharge of our constitutional mandate. I take this opportunity to ask all Senators to purpose to attend this event.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is a Communication that you gave earlier in the week. While you gave it, the House was not as full as expected. Perhaps we can request the Office of the Clerk to table that notice and send reminders to Members.

This is an extremely important event. I do hope that we, as Senate, can take the opportunity to address various urgent issues relating to our performance and how we can achieve better for the people of Kenya who pay dearly to have this House up and running.

Mr. Speaker Sir, there are many internal issues also within us as colleagues, which I believe will provide the proper platform and more formal setting than even a kamukunji for us to address and resolve these issues and come up with ways where we

can run the House better. I, therefore, wish to request that Members find time to attend this very important event.

I thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I hereby lay the Statement on the Table of the

Next Order.

Hon. Senators, at that juncture, allow me to invoke Standing Order No.45 (2) for the convenience of the House to rearrange the sequence of today's Order Paper. Instead of proceeding with Order No.12 and Order No. 13, we will straight away move and proceed with Order No.14 which is a Motion whose debate was adjourned yesterday.

Clerk, proceed and call out that Order What is your intervention? Certainly, it cannot be a point of order, unless you say the Chair is disorderly.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, it could as well mean that there is something that needs to be orderly. I request to indulge you under Standing Order No.45 now that you have rearranged the Order Paper. That in the course of debate should the Whips signal to us that they now have the requisite numbers to execute the order that we have skipped, allow us to pause the debate, conduct Division and go back to the Motion on the Floor.

Kindly Mr. Speaker, Sir, if you can indulge us.

Very well, Senate Majority Leader. Next Order.

At the interruption of debate on this Motion yesterday, the Hon. Sen. (Prof.) Tom Odhiambo Ojienda, SC, was on his feet with a balance of three minutes. However, he is not present so we will go with the names on my dashboard. Sen. Maanzo, proceed.

Clerk, can I have the list of those who contributed yesterday so that we do not have them talk today.

Sen. Maanzo is not in. Proceed, Sen. Cherarkey.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I support this Motion by the Standing Committee on County Public Investments and Special Funds (CPICSF) . I remember in the last Session, we were not able to look at special funds and others like the county education, emergency and water funds.

In the last Session - before you came on board - together with other Members of the Senate, we had combined both to form the County Public Accounts and Investment Committee (CPAIC) . Since I have served the longest in the CPAIC, we could not look at the issue of water companies, county emergency funds such as special education fund. My colleague Senators should note that most county governments and governors misuse and abuse the emergency funds.

If today you call for the water or emergency funds that are meant for disaster preparedness, no county has the money. In the case of Nairobi City County when the Embakasi tragedy happened, I bet there was no money that could be used to address that challenge with the gas explosion.

On the issue of revenue, non-revenue water and water companies; under Article 43 of the Constitution, and also the Water (Amendment) Bill which my colleagues wanted to pursue on the Public Private Partnerships (PPPs) , the biggest challenge is access to clean and safe water.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, can you believe that most of the water companies are technically insolvent? A number of them, especially in counties have liabilities which are a very big challenge.

That is why we were wondering if the water works---

What is your point of order, Sen. Thang’wa?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, my good friend is lost. The report we are supposed to be discussing is about the remittance of pension by county governments to pension schemes. The counties owe the pension entities. He is talking about water companies.

Sen. Cherarkey, relevance as a rule in this House must be upheld.

Okay, I will be relevant.

As you build your case, just know you have five minutes. If you intend to use the five minutes to build your case, then you will not make any progress.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I thought the rules of debate depend on how the debater wants to proceed as long as they are relevant. I was building my case. I wish my colleagues who just joined this House would learn very fast. I was comparing that before we had the CPAIC and now we have divided it to the CPICSF and CPAC.

I have served in the Standing Committee on Labour and Social Welfare. We used to talk of the non-remittance of funds through Local Authority Provident Fund (LAPFUND) and Local Authorities Pension Trust (LAPTRUST) . The Chairperson of CPICSF is here. We must ensure that any funds - now that people have understood the difference between CPICSF and CPAC, let me get to point two.

Non-remittance should be a criminal offence. Therefore, I challenge the Ethics and Anti-Corruption Commission (EACC) and Directorate of Criminal Investigations (DCI) to investigate non-remittance by these entities. We have made farreaching recommendations that anybody who does not remit the statutory deduction to the necessary bodies, should face prosecution. It should not be business as usual.

It looks like the county governments and their governors want to abuse and misuse everything they are given. In quick succession, I do not know whether we should combine the LAPFUND and LAPTRUST. They almost have similar duties.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, as a former governor, I do not know whether you remit to either of them. We need to relook at this. I remember - I am saying this with insight - last time, there was a fight between LAPTRUST and LAPFUND. I do not want to say what used to go around when the former Senator Hon. Sakaja was the Chair and I was a member of the Standing Committee of Labour and Social Welfare.

Finally, I agree that counties must ensure they are transparent on how they spend these funds. Today, I was with the Garissa County Women Representative, Hon. Amina, and she was telling me a story---

Proceed, Sen. Mwaruma.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for this opportunity to contribute to this very important Motion on non-remittance of pension deductions to the pension schemes by county government entities. It should not be lost that in this House, I had requested for a Statement from the Standing Committee on Finance and Budget on non- remittance of these statutory deductions.

I would like to thank the Committee headed by Sen. Osotsi who are doing a good job. The non-remittance of these statutory deductions have far reaching implications. Apart from remittance of deductions to pension schemes, the statutory deductions are not remitted to all the other statutory bodies such as the National Hospital Insurance Fund (NHIF) , the National Social Security Fund (NSSF) and so on.

This has led to a lot of suffering. For example, when county governments deduct money supposed to be for NHIF and do not remit the money to NHIF, then the workers do not get medication when they are sick.

Non-remittance to pension schemes has led to people who go home after serving diligently in governments to suffer. We have very many retired people in the villages who cannot access their pension funds be it through LAPFUND or LAPTRUST.

I urge the Senate to follow up the recommendations of this committee so that action is taken against the culpable counties. We want to see retired workers who are suffering and not able to access their money benefit.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, we need to work as a Senate so that these governors, heads of organizations and heads of Government entities who are culprits of non-remittance of the pension funds can be called to this Senate and face the Committee of the Whole and explain why the monies deducted for the pension funds are not remitted.

Sometimes, some of the monies are not remitted because of under-collection of revenue. The non-remittance of funds is a result of pending bills. Government entities should digitize their systems so that agencies of county governments can meet their targets. If counties do not meet their targets, they cannot meet their budgets. As a result, these deductions become pending bills.

This is an important Report of the Senate. We should follow up on the recommendations so that retirees can access their retirement benefits.

I thank this Senate for splitting the formerly County Public Accounts and Investments Committee into two committees. I recommend that we divide these two

Committees further so that we can look at more Government agencies' reports and have more work done.

In the last Parliament, I used to sit in the County Public Accounts and Investments Committee, where little work was done. However, because of the split of this committee, we have more work being done. If we can move ahead and split the committee maybe into five, we would have more work and more effective oversight in the Senate.

I support.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I support this Motion on county governments' non-remittance of pensions to these pension schemes. I really wonder why counties are unable to remit these monies to the pension schemes. This is a 12 per cent deduction from the employee and 15 per cent by the employer. Why are they unable to remit these deductions, considering that much of the money is from the employees? Employees earn meagre salaries after these deductions. We should ask the governors to explain this.

I support the idea of the Senator of Taita Taveta. We need to bring these governors to the Committee of the Whole to explain why they cannot remit these monies.

The retirees and those who are about to retire expect these monies to be remitted so they can get their pensions. These are individuals who are 60 years and above. Others have died before receiving their pension. We need to understand why county governments are killing devolution by not remitting money that belongs to employees and those who have already retired.

This Motion is timely. We want to know what the county governments are doing to reduce the pending bills. These are pending bills that are not supposed to occur because this money has been budgeted for.

County governments give the Controller of Budget (CoB) requisitions regarding personnel emoluments. This means that priorities are diverted when monies go to counties. We should put the CoB to task regarding why there are pending bills.

I thank the CPICSF for bringing up this inquiry and this Motion to the Senate. I support.

Sen. Madzayo, proceed. The Senate Minority Leader (Sen. Madzayo) :

Asante, Bw. Spika. Kwanza,

Asante, Bw. Spika. Kwanza,

Wafanyikazi wengi wanaofanya kazi katika serikali za kaunti wanakatwa pesa na kwenda kwenye Local Authorities Pension Trust (LAPTRUST) ama Local Authority Provident Fund (LAPFUND). Malipo haya yana mipangilio kwamba mfanyikazi atakapostaafu atachukua pesa zake na zikaweza kumsaidia.

Hon. Senators, may the Senate Minority Leader be heard in silence. The Senate Minority Leader (

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. This is a very serious national problem. I remember a case in Malinya of Mzee Moody Magoyi from Bukusi Village. This is a man who never missed a weekend, coming to my home to remind me about his pension.

He is a guy who had spent all his productive years working for the Kenya Railways and his pension never came to him. That was under the case of the defunct local authorities, which according to the statistics from NSSF, the defunct local authorities owe NSSF Kshs1.8 billion and the current devolved governments owe NSSF Kshs2.7 billion. On the word of the Kenyan Union of County Governments officials, they are owed from unremitted amounts, a whopping Kshs41.2 billion.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, these are people who are in their 70s. They are helpless. Even if they were to stand in a village baraza, nobody wants to listen to them. So, they need this Senate to advance their case.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, so that we do not miss it, it is very unfortunate that the cash transfer to the aged members of the society is working. Some of those people never did anything in terms of formal employment for the country. However, the people who actually did formal employment and made their own contribution, governors are today enjoying that money, making trips to go to I do not know where. They go to South Africa, buy flashy vehicles and all manner of wrong things. We must stamp our foot down.

A paper has just been circulated by the Senator for Kiambu that we request a small change in the Standing Orders so that governors can face the authority of this whole House. I was not for it, but when I reflect on it, I think it would be nice for some of these funny governors who became governors by accident.

Governors must never be elected outside the political elite. It is only leaders who choose to go into politics that have feeling for the people. However, when you get some professionals in Nairobi, for instance a manager of A, B, C, D and then becomes a governor, he does not have the feel of the people.

It is only politicians who feel it when they see a child being sent home for Kshs20. Politicians understand, but a manager from a blue chip company who has been in Nairobi all his life and then ends up as governor in Migori County, has no idea that those realities do take place on the ground.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, if we expedite these simple payments like the money due for NHIF, these people will be paid. If you have never had a patient of cancer, ask me.

My wife passed on because of cancer and it can be extremely expensive, so expensive that, that NHIF card used to mean more to me than the money I would get from elsewhere. I would take it to Moi Teaching and Referral Hospital and quickly my wife’s bill was sorted out. We were spending Kshs300,000 per week. Therefore, we must stand behind these good people of ours and insist----

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I support.

Asante, Bw. Spika. Wafanyikazi

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. This is a very serious national problem. I remember a case in Malinya of Mzee Moody Magoyi from Bukusi Village. This is a man who never missed a weekend, coming to my home to remind me about his pension.

He is a guy who had spent all his productive years working for the Kenya Railways and his pension never came to him. That was under the case of the defunct local authorities, which according to the statistics from NSSF, the defunct local authorities owe NSSF Kshs1.8 billion and the current devolved governments owe NSSF Kshs2.7 billion. On the word of the Kenyan Union of County Governments officials, they are owed from unremitted amounts, a whopping Kshs41.2 billion.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, these are people who are in their 70s. They are helpless. Even if they were to stand in a village baraza, nobody wants to listen to them. So, they need this Senate to advance their case.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, so that we do not miss it, it is very unfortunate that the cash transfer to the aged members of the society is working. Some of those people never did anything in terms of formal employment for the country. However, the people who actually did formal employment and made their own contribution, governors are today enjoying that money, making trips to go to I do not know where. They go to South Africa, buy flashy vehicles and all manner of wrong things. We must stamp our foot down.

A paper has just been circulated by the Senator for Kiambu that we request a small change in the Standing Orders so that governors can face the authority of this whole House. I was not for it, but when I reflect on it, I think it would be nice for some of these funny governors who became governors by accident.

Governors must never be elected outside the political elite. It is only leaders who choose to go into politics that have feeling for the people. However, when you get some professionals in Nairobi, for instance a manager of A, B, C, D and then becomes a governor, he does not have the feel of the people.

It is only politicians who feel it when they see a child being sent home for Kshs20. Politicians understand, but a manager from a blue chip company who has been in Nairobi all his life and then ends up as governor in Migori County, has no idea that those realities do take place on the ground.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, if we expedite these simple payments like the money due for NHIF, these people will be paid. If you have never had a patient of cancer, ask me.

My wife passed on because of cancer and it can be extremely expensive, so expensive that, that NHIF card used to mean more to me than the money I would get from elsewhere. I would take it to Moi Teaching and Referral Hospital and quickly my wife’s bill was sorted out. We were spending Kshs300,000 per week. Therefore, we must stand behind these good people of ours and insist----

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I support.

Proceed, Sen. Oketch Gicheru.

The Senate Majority Leader is exceptionally very happy today; I do not know what is going on. Perhaps he can share with us the source of his happiness in the House today or maybe his pension has been paid.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the issue of pension, this Report is very direct. I want to address myself to the element of accumulation of this menace.

If you read this Report, by 2013 when we had the defunct local authorities, the accumulation at that time was about Kshs9 billion. I think it was spread in a fraction of Kshs5 billion for LAPSSET. I think NHIF had about Kshs1 billion and then the rest had the others.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, between 2013 and the time that we were scrutinizing this particular problem, we had reached Kshs85 billion. That accumulation should worry this House in the sense that it seems that it is becoming something that governors are getting very comfortable with.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, they are getting comfortable to the extent that since they think that there have been previous accumulations, therefore, this cannot be a first charge in their own account such that governors are becoming notorious in terms of ensuring that these deductions are not remitted because somebody else will take responsibility, knowing very well that county governments go as a going concern.

One of the most important recommendations that has been made by this Committee is forming a taskforce to conduct a proper inquiry to this issue and put the matter to rest by the National Treasury and anybody who is relevant in what has been proposed as the composition of that taskforce. This is something that this House must give a lot of weight.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would go as far as to propose that this House stand with this sole recommendation and be able to effect immediately, so that in the next 30 days after the adoption of this Report, the taskforce can be formed.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, perhaps, this House should go further and require the National Treasury, after the formation of that taskforce to give it 60 days so that we can put this matter to rest in 90 days.

It cannot be taken as normal that people are retiring from county governments and dying without seeing their NSSF money that they contributed.

Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale talked about what Sen. Thang’wa has proposed that governors should come to this House instead of committees. I do not agree with it. However, the twist would be if we can move this process fast so that we can deal with

Order, Senate Majority Leader! Why are you lecturing your colleagues? Have a seat, please, and be orderly.

Proceed, Sen. Oketch Gicheru.

The Senate Majority Leader is exceptionally very happy today; I do not know what is going on. Perhaps he can share with us the source of his happiness in the House today or maybe his pension has been paid.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the issue of pension, this Report is very direct. I want to address myself to the element of accumulation of this menace.

If you read this Report, by 2013 when we had the defunct local authorities, the accumulation at that time was about Kshs9 billion. I think it was spread in a fraction of Kshs5 billion for LAPSSET. I think NHIF had about Kshs1 billion and then the rest had the others.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, between 2013 and the time that we were scrutinizing this particular problem, we had reached Kshs85 billion. That accumulation should worry this House in the sense that it seems that it is becoming something that governors are getting very comfortable with.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, they are getting comfortable to the extent that since they think that there have been previous accumulations, therefore, this cannot be a first charge in their own account such that governors are becoming notorious in terms of ensuring that these deductions are not remitted because somebody else will take responsibility, knowing very well that county governments go as a going concern.

One of the most important recommendations that has been made by this Committee is forming a taskforce to conduct a proper inquiry to this issue and put the matter to rest by the National Treasury and anybody who is relevant in what has been proposed as the composition of that taskforce. This is something that this House must give a lot of weight.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would go as far as to propose that this House stand with this sole recommendation and be able to effect immediately, so that in the next 30 days after the adoption of this Report, the taskforce can be formed.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, perhaps, this House should go further and require the National Treasury, after the formation of that taskforce to give it 60 days so that we can put this matter to rest in 90 days.

It cannot be taken as normal that people are retiring from county governments and dying without seeing their NSSF money that they contributed.

Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale talked about what Sen. Thang’wa has proposed that governors should come to this House instead of committees. I do not agree with it. However, the twist would be if we can move this process fast so that we can deal with

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. First, I want to congratulate the couple of counties that have made payments to pension schemes as indicated in this Report.

Sen. Crystal Asige, Proceed.

It is the exact reason why many Kenyans believe that having more children ensures a greater financial security for the family in old age. For instance, many are deceived into thinking that if they have 12 children, that means that they have access to 12 bank accounts that they can withdraw from without question or excuse later in life.

Though we are happy to support our elderly family members because of the sweat that they put into raising us, I still wish to reiterate that children should not be a retirement plan. Counties must execute their mandate.

Sen. Mungatana, proceed. Sen. Mungatana, MGH: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for giving me the opportunity to also put my thoughts in this debate.

Retirement is a very challenging part of life. That is the time that your body is reminding you that you are no longer what you used to be. It is also the time that you have a lot of medical bills. Your energy is not like it used to be. You cannot chase after your business the way you used to be. You are not able to access offices the way you used to do.

It is a time when sickness and disease is part and parcel of management of your life. Sometimes, it is a time when you are managing your life style diseases. So, imagine a situation such as that. Then, saddled with that, you have the challenge of not having steady liquid cash.

You may have accumulated some land and shares somewhere. However, the biggest challenge of retirement is that you are unable to access cash on a regular basis like you used to when you were in employment or business.

It is also a time when private insurance companies do not want to take you for medical because you are a high risk. You are a person who is forever engaged in hospitals and so on. So, you will find that you will be paying a higher amount of premiums for those that will accept you.

Asante, Bw. Spika, kwa kunipa fursa hii kuchangia Ripoti ya Kamati ya Seneti inayohusiana na masuala ya uwekezaji na hazina maalum.

Kwanza, naunga mkono Ripoti hii. Ni jambo la kusikitisha kwamba kaunti zetu zinadaiwa takriban Ksh80 bilioni. Hizo ni pesa za wale ambao wamestaafu na kwa sasa hawana mapato ya kila mwezi. Kaunti ya Mombasa ambayo nawakilisha inadaiwa Ksh9.43 bilioni.

Jambo hili linaathiri kila mtu. Hata wale ambao wako kazini kwa sasa, uwezo wao wa kufanya kazi umeathirika kwa sababu mtu hajui akistaafu kama atapata malipo yake mapema au la.

Niliwahi kufanya mkutano na County Public Service Board (CPSB) ya Mombasa. Tulipendekeza kuwa wale ambao wangestaafu karibuni, pesa zao zote zipelekwe kwa haraka ili wanapostaafu, kusiwe na malimbukizi ya pesa wanazodai, wanapostaafu,

Sen. Faki, you may have the Floor.

Asante, Bw. Spika, kwa kunipa fursa hii kuchangia Ripoti ya Kamati ya Seneti inayohusiana na masuala ya uwekezaji na hazina maalum.

Kwanza, naunga mkono Ripoti hii. Ni jambo la kusikitisha kwamba kaunti zetu zinadaiwa takriban Ksh80 bilioni. Hizo ni pesa za wale ambao wamestaafu na kwa sasa hawana mapato ya kila mwezi. Kaunti ya Mombasa ambayo nawakilisha inadaiwa Ksh9.43 bilioni.

Jambo hili linaathiri kila mtu. Hata wale ambao wako kazini kwa sasa, uwezo wao wa kufanya kazi umeathirika kwa sababu mtu hajui akistaafu kama atapata malipo yake mapema au la.

Niliwahi kufanya mkutano na County Public Service Board (CPSB) ya Mombasa. Tulipendekeza kuwa wale ambao wangestaafu karibuni, pesa zao zote zipelekwe kwa haraka ili wanapostaafu, kusiwe na malimbukizi ya pesa wanazodai, wanapostaafu,

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to support the report by the Committee on County Public Investments and Special Funds.

This is a disease that has been there since the days of county and municipal councils. As Sen. Oketch Gicheru said, by the close of 2012, defunct county councils owed pension schemes over Kshs9 billion. From 2013 up to now, the amount has risen from Kshs9 billion about Kshs82 billion. This basically means that governors have not been remitting pension deductions from 2013 up to now. It is not that money was and is not being send to the counties. Employees contribute 7.5 per cent of their salary and county governments add 15 per cent.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, we support what Sen. Thang’wa said that we invite governors here, so that they tell us where they take the money they deduct from employees.

One reason is that governors over-budget resources from their Appropriation-in- Aid (A-in-A) . If they do not meet their target at the end of the financial year, they divert deductions from employees to pay their cronies for development done at the expense of employees.

There are many employees who have retired. Some have even died because they do not have the pension to sustain them. That is money that people contribute so that they can use to buy medicine and lead good lives during their sunset years. However, governors now and mayors and clerks of those days misused the money. That is why we are asking Members of this House to support this Report by passing it, so that the resolutions are implemented.

Sen. Kisang, you may have the Floor.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to support the report by the Committee on County Public Investments and Special Funds.

This is a disease that has been there since the days of county and municipal councils. As Sen. Oketch Gicheru said, by the close of 2012, defunct county councils owed pension schemes over Kshs9 billion. From 2013 up to now, the amount has risen from Kshs9 billion about Kshs82 billion. This basically means that governors have not been remitting pension deductions from 2013 up to now. It is not that money was and is not being send to the counties. Employees contribute 7.5 per cent of their salary and county governments add 15 per cent.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, we support what Sen. Thang’wa said that we invite governors here, so that they tell us where they take the money they deduct from employees.

One reason is that governors over-budget resources from their Appropriation-in- Aid (A-in-A) . If they do not meet their target at the end of the financial year, they divert deductions from employees to pay their cronies for development done at the expense of employees.

There are many employees who have retired. Some have even died because they do not have the pension to sustain them. That is money that people contribute so that they can use to buy medicine and lead good lives during their sunset years. However, governors now and mayors and clerks of those days misused the money. That is why we are asking Members of this House to support this Report by passing it, so that the resolutions are implemented.

Asante, Bw. Spika, kwa kunipa fursa hii ili niunge mkono Mswada huu wa uhamishaji wa pensheni wa Kamati inayoongozwa na Sen. Osotsi.

Ni aibu na haistahili, wala haifai kuwa magavana wanakata watu pesa zao za pensheni na kisha wakose kuzipeleka kule zinastahili ili wakati wafanyikazi wanastaafu, wapate malipo yao ya uzeeni.

Mtu hufanya kazi ili wakati wa uzeeni, aweze kupata kitu cha kujisaidia. Wanapokatwa hizi hela, wanakuwa na matumaini makubwa ya kuwa, wakati wa uzeeni watakuwa sawa na salama.

Bw. Spika, si hao wafanyikazi wa kaunti peke yao, pia kuna walimu. Hii ni kwa sababu ninaketi kwa Kamati ya Elimu na kuna walimu kutoka 2012 hawajalipwa pensheni. Hii inaumiza kwa sababu wengi wanakufa bila kupata hela zao.

Ni lazima hii Kamati ione itachukua hatua gani zaidi ili kuhakikisha hizi pesa zimepatikana zote na zimehamishwa kwa hiyo hazina ya pensheni ili hao waliostaafu wafurahie pensheni yao kama watu wengine. Wakati wanapostaafu, wanapata shida nyingi sababu huo wakati hawana bima inayowaruhusu kuenda hospitali kutibiwa. Wakati huo ndio mgumu zaidi kwa sababu wengi huwa wanaugua magonjwa ya presha na kisukari na wanakuwa na shida nyingi.

Bw. Spika, ninaunga mkono kwa kusema hatua ichukuliwe kwa hao magavana na kwa watu waliyo kwenye wizara zingine ambazo huwa hawapeleki hizo pesa za pensheni kwa ile hazina inayostahili.

Asante. Naunga mkono.

Sen. Abass.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I join my colleagues in supporting this Report.

Sen. Abass.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I join my colleagues in supporting this Report.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for giving me an opportunity to contribute to this Report by the County Public Investments and Special Funds Committee (CPISFC) . I commend them for this Report and for meeting with all stakeholders on matters of retirement.

The issues of older citizens in the country are not well appreciated and not well provided for in policy. That is why everyone who deals with matters relating to older generation persons and those who have retired seems to deal with them casually. This is not just a problem of county governments but of the national Government as well.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, in the first instance, we need to encourage the Ministry in charge of labour to come up with a clear policy on how to take care of older people, including those who have retired. On the issue of protecting the retirement benefits of workers, both at the national and country governments, we will need to ensure that the

Sen. Mumma.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for giving me an opportunity to contribute to this Report by the County Public Investments and Special Funds Committee (CPISFC) . I commend them for this Report and for meeting with all stakeholders on matters of retirement.

The issues of older citizens in the country are not well appreciated and not well provided for in policy. That is why everyone who deals with matters relating to older generation persons and those who have retired seems to deal with them casually. This is not just a problem of county governments but of the national Government as well.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, in the first instance, we need to encourage the Ministry in charge of labour to come up with a clear policy on how to take care of older people, including those who have retired. On the issue of protecting the retirement benefits of workers, both at the national and country governments, we will need to ensure that the

Asante sana, Mustahiki Spika, kwa kunipa nafasi kuchangia Hoja hii kuhusu shida zinazowakabili wale watu waliostaafu kupata pesa zao za uzeeni. Kirinyaga ni mojawapo ya eneo ambalo kuna watu kama hawa. Mimi binafsi nimehuzunika nikizika babangu mdogo kule Kirinyaga kwa sababu ya cancer - na akafa bila kulipwa malipo yake ya uzeeni kutoka mwaka wa 2012 hadi alipokufa. Alikuwa akifanya kazi katika hospitali ya Rufaa ya Kirinyaga. Ni mojawapo wa wengi walionifikia wakilalamika kutolipwa pesa zao za uzeeni.

Harambee nyingi zinazofanyika siku hizi ni kwa sababu ya watu wasiolipwa pesa zao za uzeeni ilhali walijitolea mhanga katika kupeana huduma katika serikali za kaunti. Ni jambo la kuhuzunisha kwamba hadi leo tunapoongea, hawapewi kipaumbele kuhakikisha wamelipwa pesa zao.

Wengi wa wale wanaoteseka saa hii ni wa umri uliosonga na umri inavyosonga ndivyo mwanadamu ana shida na magonjwa mengi bila uwezo wa kujifanyia kazi kwa sababu udhaifu na kukosa nguvu inaandamana na uzee. Kwa hivyo, nimeona kwamba Kirinyaga waliketi na County Pensions Fund (CPF) na wakakubaliana kwamba wataanza

Proceed, Sen. Murango.

Asante sana, Mustahiki Spika, kwa kunipa nafasi kuchangia Hoja hii kuhusu shida zinazowakabili wale watu waliostaafu kupata pesa zao za uzeeni. Kirinyaga ni mojawapo ya eneo ambalo kuna watu kama hawa. Mimi binafsi nimehuzunika nikizika babangu mdogo kule Kirinyaga kwa sababu ya cancer - na akafa bila kulipwa malipo yake ya uzeeni kutoka mwaka wa 2012 hadi alipokufa. Alikuwa akifanya kazi katika hospitali ya Rufaa ya Kirinyaga. Ni mojawapo wa wengi walionifikia wakilalamika kutolipwa pesa zao za uzeeni.

Harambee nyingi zinazofanyika siku hizi ni kwa sababu ya watu wasiolipwa pesa zao za uzeeni ilhali walijitolea mhanga katika kupeana huduma katika serikali za kaunti. Ni jambo la kuhuzunisha kwamba hadi leo tunapoongea, hawapewi kipaumbele kuhakikisha wamelipwa pesa zao.

Wengi wa wale wanaoteseka saa hii ni wa umri uliosonga na umri inavyosonga ndivyo mwanadamu ana shida na magonjwa mengi bila uwezo wa kujifanyia kazi kwa sababu udhaifu na kukosa nguvu inaandamana na uzee. Kwa hivyo, nimeona kwamba Kirinyaga waliketi na County Pensions Fund (CPF) na wakakubaliana kwamba wataanza

Mr. Speaker, Sir, thank you for giving me this chance to add my voice into this Report. First, I appreciate the CPISFC for the good work they have done in collecting the input from the affected people and Kenyans at large.

It is inhuman for the governors and any institution not to pay workers their pensions. It is painful when people have invested time and resources into working and serving an institution, then not get their benefits when they leave. Many of them leave employment when tired and need to get their benefits.

Secondly, some of them may not even have had time to have families when they were working. When they retire is maybe when they get young wives to take care of them. Then when they are not paid their benefits, they suffer because they want to treat these young women in their lives and give them the best lives they can afford. They get frustrated when they are not paid.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is important to note that retirees at home also contribute in building the nation. They need to get their benefits so that when called in these social gatherings and in family meetings, they can contribute at ease because they have their benefits and money. That helps them in keeping their social status so that they do not feel neglected, become social misfits and not accepted because they cannot contribute or participate in what the community is doing.

We must come up as a House with a clear way forward on how to enforce the payment of pensions of those who have served the nation because they require support when they retire.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, thank you for the opportunity to recognise that those who do not get their benefits go through psychological torture. They need to be helped by getting them their benefits with their pension being paid in good time. They should not wait for long. Many die without enjoying the fruits of their hard work.

Proceed, Sen. Wakili Sigei.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, thank you for giving me the opportunity to also add my voice to the report that we received yesterday from the Committee. It took

Proceed, Sen. Wakili Sigei.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, thank you for giving me the opportunity to also add my voice to the report that we received yesterday from the Committee. It took

the Chairperson of the Committee, Sen. Osotsi, over 45 minutes to present this document. He laid the foundation why we are where we are and the suffering the people who are supposed to be the beneficiaries of the remittances have gone through.

In all the recommendations that the Committee made, it is one thing that this House can help the people who have retired and their entitlements been retained by various county governments and other institutions that are supposed to remit these dues to benefit those people in their old age.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the figures as given is something we cannot take for granted. This is because at Paragraph 63, there is an additional note on the amounts due to the various institutions starting from Local Authority Pension (LAPTRUST) Trust, National Social Security Fund (NSSF) and LAP Fund. These are remittances that these institutions have not released for the benefit of those people.

We are aware that upon retirement, an individual has no other source of income especially in their in old age. The affinity to have medical conditions that require constant attention is rampant. In the event that they are unable to get any resources, yet they had contributed, they would be subjected to conditions which they are not supposed to because of the inaction of these institutions.

Among the several recommendations which I commend the Committee for, is the one that requires a first charge on the remittances that goes to the county governments. This recommendation is on page 28 where once the county government remits its allocation, the first charge must be laid out on these statutory deductions.

The second proposed amendment is to the Public Finance Management (PFM) Act. It will ensure county governments confirm before any other payment is made that these remittances have been done. This will be the only way to enforce the proposals which the Committee is making.

Secondly, the Controller of Budget (CoB) should ensure statutory deductions are made before monthly payroll payment requests by the county governments are approved. This is going to help us to manage these payments. How will this be done? It is by having a law that requires first charge on any remittances. In addition to that, before approval of any deductions or any payment is done, all the money is supposed to go through the Office of the CoB.

Should the Kenya Revenue Authority (KRA) be given a role to enhance these remittances? The Committee should consider the role of KRA and the Retirement Benefits Authority Act. As such, these deductions will be automatic if KRA is involved.

I laud the comments which were made that some county governments have entered into agreements with the Funds on how to remit these statutory deductions. Unfortunately, if these agreements are signed and not honoured, they will remain just agreements. What is the effect? The Committee recommended that additional interests and penalties will accrue as long as such payments are not made.

I believe that if this House adopts this Report, we will support and help contributors who have suffered because of unremitted deductions.

I commend the Committee on this Report. It will enhance the oversight role of this House. We should ensure that those who contribute benefit from their contributions

Asante, Bw. Spika, kwa kunipa fursa nichangie Hoja ya Sen. Osotsi kuhusu malipo ya uzeeni na yale ya National Social Security Fund (NSSF) na fedha nyinginezo.

Niko na huzuni sana kwa sababu ya kaunti zilizoachwa na madeni na wale magavana waliokuwepo. Wale watu tunaotetea hapa, sio wale wa kaunti pekee bali ni vitengo mbalimbali ikiwemo taasisi ya waalimu.

Wafanyikazi wa kaunti wako na shida nyingi. Ikumbukwe walipoajiriwa walikuwa wachanga. Tunajua ya kwamba mfanyikazi yeyote anapoajiriwa, pesa anazopata huwa ni kidogo.

Pia, anapoajiriwa, huwa anaingia kwa madeni ya benki na kwa shylock na pesa zingine zinazokatwa benki pamoja na malipo ya uzeeni. Ni aibu kubwa sana tunapoona mfanyikazi anapostaafu baada ya kufikisha miaka 60 na anaendelea kuwa na shida.

Ifahamike kwamba kama sio hawa wafanyikazi wa kaunti, kaunti zetu hazingekuwa imara. Watu hawa ndio wanasimamia shughuli za maombolezi na za makanisa kule mashinani. Hivyo basi, hawa wafanyikazi wameshikilia serikali katika kona zote lakini wanapostaafu huwa na shida nyingi.

Kwa mfano, Kaunti ya Embu kwa wakati huu imechagua Gavana ambaye ni mchapa kazi lakini alikuta madeni ya wanakandarasi yakiwa takriban Ksh2 bilioni. Kwa hifadhi ya serikali, alipata yamkini Ksh500 milioni.

Anapopata pesa, anajaribu kupunguza mishahara ambapo kila mwezi analipa Ksh2.5 milioni. Japo anafanya hivyo, Seneti inashinikiza alipe madeni ya watu. Hivyo, basi, unakuta kaunti nyingi ziko na shida kama kaunti ya Embu.

Ingewezekana, Kamati hii ingependekeza jinsi ya kulipa pending bills ndiposa zile kaunti zenye madeni ziweze kuyalipa kwa njia inayofaa ili wafanyikazi wa kaunti waache kuumia.

Hivyo basi naunga mkono lakini kuna njia mwafaka ingeangaliwa ili hawa magavana wasiwe na shida ya watakavyosaidia. Utakuta, kwa mfano, Kaunti ya Embu kuna shida nyingi na ndio hizo shida tunajaribu kutatua hapa.

Mpaka tuangalie ni njia gani hizo kaunti zitaweza kupata pesa ambazo zinaweza kulipa hayo madeni ndio wafanyikazi wanapostaafu waweze kupata malipo ya uzeeni kwa njia ya haraka.

Kampuni niliyokuwa ninafanyia kazi, ya KenGen, unapostaafu huwezi maliza miezi miwili kabla hujapata pesa zako. Kwa hivyo, ningeomba zile kaunti hazina madeni ziweze kusaidia. Miezi mitano kabla ya mfanyikazi kustaafu, rekodi zake zitengenezwe vizuri ili turekebishe jinsi ya kujenga maisha yao wakati wameenda nyumbani.

Tunajua ya kwamba hawana pesa zingine. Tumeona baadhi ya wafanyikazi wanapostaafu, wanaugua hata kuaga dunia. Kwa hivyo, ni lazima tuangalie njia mwafaka ile tutasaidia hawa watu wa kaunti vile watakavyokaa vizuri.

Naunga mkono.

Sen. Mundigi?

Asante, Bw. Spika, kwa kunipa fursa nichangie Hoja ya Sen. Osotsi kuhusu malipo ya uzeeni na yale ya National Social Security Fund (NSSF) na fedha nyinginezo.

Niko na huzuni sana kwa sababu ya kaunti zilizoachwa na madeni na wale magavana waliokuwepo. Wale watu tunaotetea hapa, sio wale wa kaunti pekee bali ni vitengo mbalimbali ikiwemo taasisi ya waalimu.

Wafanyikazi wa kaunti wako na shida nyingi. Ikumbukwe walipoajiriwa walikuwa wachanga. Tunajua ya kwamba mfanyikazi yeyote anapoajiriwa, pesa anazopata huwa ni kidogo.

Pia, anapoajiriwa, huwa anaingia kwa madeni ya benki na kwa shylock na pesa zingine zinazokatwa benki pamoja na malipo ya uzeeni. Ni aibu kubwa sana tunapoona mfanyikazi anapostaafu baada ya kufikisha miaka 60 na anaendelea kuwa na shida.

Ifahamike kwamba kama sio hawa wafanyikazi wa kaunti, kaunti zetu hazingekuwa imara. Watu hawa ndio wanasimamia shughuli za maombolezi na za makanisa kule mashinani. Hivyo basi, hawa wafanyikazi wameshikilia serikali katika kona zote lakini wanapostaafu huwa na shida nyingi.

Kwa mfano, Kaunti ya Embu kwa wakati huu imechagua Gavana ambaye ni mchapa kazi lakini alikuta madeni ya wanakandarasi yakiwa takriban Ksh2 bilioni. Kwa hifadhi ya serikali, alipata yamkini Ksh500 milioni.

Anapopata pesa, anajaribu kupunguza mishahara ambapo kila mwezi analipa Ksh2.5 milioni. Japo anafanya hivyo, Seneti inashinikiza alipe madeni ya watu. Hivyo, basi, unakuta kaunti nyingi ziko na shida kama kaunti ya Embu.

Ingewezekana, Kamati hii ingependekeza jinsi ya kulipa pending bills ndiposa zile kaunti zenye madeni ziweze kuyalipa kwa njia inayofaa ili wafanyikazi wa kaunti waache kuumia.

Hivyo basi naunga mkono lakini kuna njia mwafaka ingeangaliwa ili hawa magavana wasiwe na shida ya watakavyosaidia. Utakuta, kwa mfano, Kaunti ya Embu kuna shida nyingi na ndio hizo shida tunajaribu kutatua hapa.

Mpaka tuangalie ni njia gani hizo kaunti zitaweza kupata pesa ambazo zinaweza kulipa hayo madeni ndio wafanyikazi wanapostaafu waweze kupata malipo ya uzeeni kwa njia ya haraka.

Kampuni niliyokuwa ninafanyia kazi, ya KenGen, unapostaafu huwezi maliza miezi miwili kabla hujapata pesa zako. Kwa hivyo, ningeomba zile kaunti hazina madeni ziweze kusaidia. Miezi mitano kabla ya mfanyikazi kustaafu, rekodi zake zitengenezwe vizuri ili turekebishe jinsi ya kujenga maisha yao wakati wameenda nyumbani.

Tunajua ya kwamba hawana pesa zingine. Tumeona baadhi ya wafanyikazi wanapostaafu, wanaugua hata kuaga dunia. Kwa hivyo, ni lazima tuangalie njia mwafaka ile tutasaidia hawa watu wa kaunti vile watakavyokaa vizuri.

Naunga mkono.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir for giving me this opportunity to support this very important Motion. Failure to remit these dues borders on criminality. It is very painful that a county government under the governor cannot remit dues meant for their employees.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the purpose of saving is for tomorrow. It is very painful that somebody has worked for close to 20 or 30 years. By the time you are 60 years old, you are sent home to retire and rest. Then suddenly, you realize that you have no savings at all.

I am happy that Sen Osotsi, through his Committee, has brought that Motion. I think that this Motion should now be processed into a Bill because sometimes Motions are not compelling, they are just advisory. This will ensure that we create some punitive measures through which we can punish these rogue governors who are not remitting the dues of their people. It is very shameful and painful.

Having worked in counties for close to ten years, I know the pain, the struggles and the frustrations that the county workers are going through, and these things revolve around corruption. It is pure theft because at times, this money is put into some fishy accounts and it generates a lot of interest for the benefit of a few errant individuals in those counties.

I would implore upon this Committee, which is led by my brother, Sen. Osotsi, to develop a Bill through this Motion, which is supposed to bring in some very punitive measures to make sure that we punish---

Mr. Speaker, Sir, can you protect me from Sen. Nyamu and Sen. Wakili Sigei? They are interrupting me.

Sen. Osotsi, I am happy that you have come up with this issue. You must have done a lot of investigations because there are a lot of cries across the board; almost in all counties. We have very few counties that are the exception. Most counties are going through this mess.

I am happy that this Committee has brought this issue to this House. I strongly support that we must make some serious regulations to make sure that the employees who are supposed to have their pension remitted to relevant entities get their money once they retire because that is the essence of saving.

I support.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for the opportunity to also support this Report. I am a Member of the County Public Investments and Special Finds (CPISFC) Committee, the Committee that prepared the Report that was presented to the House by our Chairman.

It should be an impeachable offence for any governor to deduct anybody's salary and never remit the same to the pension schemes. If I was to give you the figures of my county, the Kiambu County---

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I feel frustrated when I am standing here as a Senator of the great County of Kiambu, where I am supposed to fight for my people, but when I try to do my oversight role, I feel that there are some other things that are happening around that are somehow jeopardizing that.

That is why I am trying to implore the Chair to crack the whip on such committees, that would really not give any governor an opportunity to be heard or questioned so that he can answer questions that are affecting his country.

As I thank the CPISFC that every governor has appeared before; those who did not appear were summoned and those who did not honour the summons were fined. I am also the Chairperson of the Committee on Roads and Transportation. A governor who never appeared before the Committee, was fined Kshs500, 000 and they paid. I believe

Hon. Senator, can you abandon that line of contribution, please? You cannot impute improper motives on your colleagues. Kindly, abandon that line of debate.

Proceed.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I feel frustrated when I am standing here as a Senator of the great County of Kiambu, where I am supposed to fight for my people, but when I try to do my oversight role, I feel that there are some other things that are happening around that are somehow jeopardizing that.

That is why I am trying to implore the Chair to crack the whip on such committees, that would really not give any governor an opportunity to be heard or questioned so that he can answer questions that are affecting his country.

As I thank the CPISFC that every governor has appeared before; those who did not appear were summoned and those who did not honour the summons were fined. I am also the Chairperson of the Committee on Roads and Transportation. A governor who never appeared before the Committee, was fined Kshs500, 000 and they paid. I believe

we need to check on how we are checking on the governors. Nevertheless, I support this Report.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for this opportunity. I also want to support this Report by the watchdog Committee led by the Senator of Vihiga County, Sen. Osotsi.

I have been going through various surveys. One of the damning surveys I came across was by an international financial service provider that rated retirees in Kenya as one of the poorest globally.

In a country that is trying to encourage savings and increasing contributions in terms of the NSSF, this is something that we seriously need to think about not just in counties. I would say, it is gross irresponsibility and unsound to deduct money from someone and then not remit it to the pension fund organizations.

When you look at the tales of many retirees in this country, the moment you retire and go home, most of the issues you are dealing with are either burying your colleagues, paying school fees and most of them are paying school fees for dependents who are young people between 20 and 25 years.

When you carefully scrutinize that situation, most retirees are forced to go back to work. They are going back to work, not in the government but doing odd jobs to make more money because they have nothing and these county governments are not paying them their pension dues.

I would say at times it is deliberate because the county chiefs are prioritizing projects which they are making money from. That is why it is very easy for a county government to launch a new project but dillydally in remitting money that is meant for people who have been their loyal workers.

We need to be strict on this issue. Among the observations that the Committee made was that there was an increase in the debt owed to pension schemes post- devolution. The debts comprised majorly of accrued interests and penalties. Maybe, we need to include these on the pending bills. Also, these should be among the first charge in the budgets of county governments. That would prevent the county chiefs from running away from such a crucial responsibility.

Additionally, I see the recommendation of forming a taskforce. That seems realistic as of now, but it would be dragging us back. This is because most of these organizations have internal data of who and how much is owed. Forming a taskforce will take a long time. Some of these people, as my colleagues have said, will die before they get their dues.

A taskforce, as recommended here, would not be the best option. We know the route such taskforces take in this country. At times, you end up not getting the justice you deserve. We cannot advise retires to go to court. Court processes are expensive and time consuming. It is unlikely that they will get justice.

As I have always said, this being a watchdog committee, I expect radical recommendations. We should not massage people who know what they are meant to do yet they continue to do the same at the expense of ordinary people who have no space to

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I want to support the Report of the Committee on County Public Investments and Special Funds (CPIC) where I sit.

It is very sad how the issue of pensions is handled. Many people have died without receiving their dues. It is unfortunate that Nairobi City County and Mombasa County have the highest pension debt according to the data submitted.

The interest charged by the Local Authorities Provident Fund (LAPFUND) and Local Authorities Pension Trust (LAPTRUST) has led to the growth of these penalties. So, it is unfortunate that counties have failed to settle due to that. Nyamira and Nyeri counties have already settled their principal pension. So, it is possible to settle these contributions in full.

We also need to have strict penalties on this one. I have seen the recommendations that the Retirement Benefits Authority (RBA) should appoint the KRA as a collecting agent for these dues. The counties have failed us on these issues.

It is unfortunate looking at the lives that the governors are leading yet, the poor retired people, who expect their dues are not receiving anything.

I feel strongly and support the recommendation that the RBA should appoint KRA as collecting agents if counties have failed.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, much has been said on this. I do not need to repeat it. I strongly support this Motion. I thank you.

Proceed, Sen. Korir.

Asante, Bwana Spika. Nimesimama pia kuchangia Ripoti ya Kamati ya kuwalipa wafanyikazi wetu malipo yao ya kustaafu. Hii ni changamoto kubwa kwa wafanyikazi wetu kwa sababu wanakosa pesa zao baada ya kustaafu ilhali wamejikaza na kutumia muda wao kuifanyia Serikali kazi. Wamejinyima na kuekeza pesa ili mwisho waitumie wanapozeeka.

Hii ni changamoto ambalo gatuzi zetu zinapitia. Inachangiwa na Serikali kuu kwa sababu kuna pesa ambazo ilifaa kutuma kwa kaunti ili, itumike kulipa pension.

Nashukuru Kamati hii kwa kazi nzuri ambayo wamefanya. Kama Bunge hili litatekeleza mapendekezo haya, basi, kaunti zitasaidika.

Sina mengi ya kusema. Naiunga mkono Ripoti hii. Asante.

Proceed, Sen. Wamatinga.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity. I rise to also support the Report that has been done by the team led by Sen. Osotsi. They did a good job.

In a country where we have a culture of praising the postman for delivering mail, we may not seem to care a lot that the national Government, in the age of internet, has the responsibility of ensuring that all these deductions are remitted to the Pension Funds.

Proceed, Sen. Wamatinga.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity. I rise to also support the Report that has been done by the team led by Sen. Osotsi. They did a good job.

In a country where we have a culture of praising the postman for delivering mail, we may not seem to care a lot that the national Government, in the age of internet, has the responsibility of ensuring that all these deductions are remitted to the Pension Funds.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I congratulate the Committee on County Public Investments and Special Funds for a job well done. This is what we expect of our committees. That is to respond to issues of great concern to the people we represent in this House.

Pension funds are essential tools and financial instruments that we have abused in this country for a long time. Unfortunately, we are discussing county pension schemes

Sen. Cheruiyot, proceed.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I congratulate the Committee on County Public Investments and Special Funds for a job well done. This is what we expect of our committees. That is to respond to issues of great concern to the people we represent in this House.

Pension funds are essential tools and financial instruments that we have abused in this country for a long time. Unfortunately, we are discussing county pension schemes

but there are similar challenges that people have with their savings at the national Government.

As one of the Senators observed earlier, unfortunately, the Senate has not spoken candidly and resolved the issue of county pension funds. We tried to address that issue in the Eleventh Parliament. However, as was rightly observed, partisan interests came in along the way and Parliament was not able to wade over the storm. Unfortunately, the same was worse in the Twelfth Parliament.

Therefore, as an institution, we continue to stand indicted because of how the various county pension funds are run, and the fact that we have not passed a law that guides counties on how their pension schemes are managed, how better to run them and whether it is proper for them to be as many as we already know, or collapse them into one county pension scheme for our county government workers just like we have one for the national Government employees. Nonetheless, I want to appreciate this first attempt to collect what is due to them.

There are many defunct municipals and county councils that, up to date, have never settled their pending bills with the various pension schemes. Unfortunately, it has taken nearly 12 years to stamp our foot with authority and demand that these monies be paid.

In the absence of that, we have some elderly people who gave their best of life and energy to provide service to the country but are now wallowing in extreme poverty and are unable to access their pensions. I hope the recommendations of this Report will be forwarded and implemented.

Over and above this, I would like to challenge the Committee chaired by Sen. Osotsi, to bring a Bill to Parliament, specifically on how pension funds can have a right to first charge just like the KRA has agency notice. The same applies to NSSF and NHIF where many employers, because of the strict nature of the laws in place and the compliance demands on all employers, the default rate is low. So long as people know you can choose to pay, delay, or deduct the pension and use it to do other things with minimal repercussions, we will continue having the same challenges.

For most of the bills, you cannot accurately determine how much is owed to specific county pension funds by various county governments. While this is a good start, a lot needs to be done.

It is my sincere hope that, as a House, we will rise to the occasion and guide our county staffers into pension schemes they can rely on in retirement. It will be impossible for counties to attract good talent if they know they work for organisations which upon retirement, they cannot draw pensions.

Staffers of Parliament are comfortable and are exceptional in their duties because they know that in Parliament, we have a Staff Pension Scheme that is well-run and managed. They know they will enjoy the fruits of their labour in their retirement years. They will not be destitute old people relying on handouts from their children and well- wishers. Unfortunately, people save during their youthful years only to suffer in retirement. I hope Sen. Osotsi will give us a specific Bill that will go through both Houses of Parliament that will give urgent notice to these institutions so that we provide clarity in this space.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I thank all the Members who have contributed for overwhelmingly supporting this Motion.

I spent a lot of time when I was moving it. Therefore, I will not say much. I just want to clarify the issue of multi-sectoral forum that will be appointed by the Cabinet Secretary in charge of the National Treasury.

The Committee considered the forum to be important because we faced two major challenges. Firstly, there is the issue of harmonizing pension principal balances because of variations. The figures quoted by counties varied with those quoted by pension schemes.

Secondly is the issue of interest. The interest charged and the other charges were a significant portion of the total pension that is owed. We thought that it may not be in our domain. We create a legal forum where the stakeholders can agree on these two issues and that has to be done immediately after this Motion is passed.

We expect the Cabinet Secretary for National Treasury to come up with a task force and gazette it within 30 days. Thereafter, that task force is supposed to submit a final report to the Senate on how they are going to implement the recommendations of this Senate within 60 days.

Sen. Osotsi, being the Mover of this Motion, kindly proceed to reply.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I thank all the Members who have contributed for overwhelmingly supporting this Motion.

I spent a lot of time when I was moving it. Therefore, I will not say much. I just want to clarify the issue of multi-sectoral forum that will be appointed by the Cabinet Secretary in charge of the National Treasury.

The Committee considered the forum to be important because we faced two major challenges. Firstly, there is the issue of harmonizing pension principal balances because of variations. The figures quoted by counties varied with those quoted by pension schemes.

Secondly is the issue of interest. The interest charged and the other charges were a significant portion of the total pension that is owed. We thought that it may not be in our domain. We create a legal forum where the stakeholders can agree on these two issues and that has to be done immediately after this Motion is passed.

We expect the Cabinet Secretary for National Treasury to come up with a task force and gazette it within 30 days. Thereafter, that task force is supposed to submit a final report to the Senate on how they are going to implement the recommendations of this Senate within 60 days.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, we will also be expecting that this House will be getting an update report on a weekly basis. So, we have internal mechanisms for ensuring that the recommendations of this Report are implemented. This is for the benefit of not just the Senate, but also our Government, which is very keen on promoting a saving culture through pension funds and the pensioners who are languishing in poverty.

I do not want to go beyond that. I beg to reply and also request that under Standing Order No. 663, the putting of the question on this Motion be deferred to a later date.

I thank you.

The hon. Sen. Cherarkey, kindly proceed. You have 45 minutes but you do not have to speak for the entire 45 minutes.

Maximum 45 minutes.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I remember I was moving but, unfortunately, some Members said that I should be moving when the whole House is here.

I think this is a straightforward amendment and I would not want to belabour the point. It is about the Public Service

(Amendment)

Bill

(National Assembly Bill No. 46 of 2022)

.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, this amendment intends to capture Article 10 on national values and principles of good governance.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, as you are aware, under Article 232, the values and principles of Public Service have been provided by our Constitution. Therefore, one of them is high professional ethics, efficiency and effective and economic use of resources.

Maximum 45 minutes.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I remember I was moving but, unfortunately, some Members said that I should be moving when the whole House is here.

I think this is a straightforward amendment and I would not want to belabour the point. It is about the Public Service

(Amendment)

Bill

(National Assembly Bill No. 46 of 2022)

.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, this amendment intends to capture Article 10 on national values and principles of good governance.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, as you are aware, under Article 232, the values and principles of Public Service have been provided by our Constitution. Therefore, one of them is high professional ethics, efficiency and effective and economic use of resources.

jobs. It is just that we are not given those opportunities, simply because the Public Service Commission (PSC) has not adhered even to the Constitution.

The requirement in Article 130 speaks about how the President should compose the National Executive. It says that it is the President, the Deputy President and the Cabinet. However, that Cabinet must reflect regional and community diversity.

If the President and the Cabinet are pushed by the Constitution under Article 13 to be obedient to the question of regional and community diversity, why is it that the Public Service Commission (PSC) does not see it important to check how many people are employed in their various departments?

Article 232 speaks to the requirement---

Sen. Mungatana, you are protected, but the protection is a bit threatened.

Proceed.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, let me not go there. Article 232, which gives the values of the public service, is so clear. For the Kenyans who are listening to me, they can turn to Article 232. It gives the values and the principles of public service. In fact, the entire Chapter 13 of the Constitution discusses the values and what public service should be like. It says that these values apply not just to the National, but also to the county governments and all state corporations. It is so clear on what the Kenyan people were saying.

Some of the values of the public service are high standards of professional ethics, efficient, effective and economic use of resources. It goes on to talk about involving people in policy making, transparency is provision of public information and fair competition and merit to be the basis of appointments and promotion, but subject to representation of Kenya’s diverse communities.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Kenyan people through the Constitution of Kenya 2010 said, yes, let us have merit and fair competition when we are employing people at the national Government, state corporations and at the county governments. However, the question of fair competition and merit as the basis of appointment and promotion must be representation of diverse communities in Kenya.

Kenyans who are in Tana River County; the various communities there – Watta, Wailwana and other small ones all over there - the spread of Kenya’s communities is more superior in terms of looking at what will be the category of employment, as opposed to fair competition and merit. We must have affirmative action. Yes, there must be merit and fair competition, but in order for us to obey the Constitution, there must be representation of Kenya’s diverse communities in every State department.

I live in this country and when Kenyans were passing this Constitution, they were well aware of what I am talking about. You will go to a State corporation or a parastatal and people will be speaking their mother tongue. A whole department will have people speaking in mother tongue. Mother tongue is the lingua franca of that department.

When you look at some of us, I am of mixed ethnicity. My mother is a Taita and my father is a Pokomo. However, we lean towards the paternal side and that is why we were brought up speaking the language of our father. When we get married to other mixed communities, these children carry quarter-quarter bloodlines. What do we call them?

I am telling governors, employers at the CPSBs and the Public Service Commission (PSC) at the national level that all these are Kenyans and we should treat our people fairly. Let us treat people with disability, as is required in this Bill and give them opportunities and a chance to make a useful contribution to the communities that we live in.

I was in the Buxton Estate this week when the Deputy President was in Mombasa and was addressing all the six leaders from the six counties on the question of drug abuse and illicit alcohol. Afterwards, we went to the affordable housing estate in the Buxton area. One of the persons who served us is a person living with disability. I found it profound that in that set-up, they were able to be sensitive to that. However, that is not happening in our CPSBs. You will find that the percentages, the gender and age realities are not adhered to. There is discrimination. Even ethnic balancing is not observed.

I rise to wholly support this Bill and urge the Senators who will speak to this Bill to support it 100 per cent. We need these returns so that if PSC has been unfair to Tana River in its ethnic composition, then we will know and can punish the people who are responsible for those actions that are against the principles of public service, as espoused within Article 232 of the Constitution.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we need to bring this country to a higher level and we will not tire to speak on the Floor of this House. It is the only way we are going to change this nation to be a better nation.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, with those remarks, I beg to second. I thank you.

I will call upon the Members who have expressed interest to contribute to this particular Bill.

Proceed, Sen. Gataya Mo Fire.

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I am impressed by this Bill, which has been brought by my good friend, Sen. Cherarkey. It has captured quite a lot of abnormalities, especially in our institutions. We have witnessed situations where this Constitution has been blatantly violated by those who are supposed to protect what Kenyans brought on board.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I rise to support the Public Service

(Amendment)

Bill

(National Assembly Bills No.46 of 2022)

.

Let me, first of all, appreciate both the National Assembly and the Senate for coming up with the concept of ensuring that Bills, which are as important as this, are co- sponsored by a Member from the “Lower” House and a Member of this House.

I appreciate the two Members, distinguished Sen. Cherarkey and Hon. Rahim Dawood, for having foresight in governance. This is what defines anticipatory governance. This is what tries to avoid difficult situations where the country becomes completely unmanageable.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the two distinguished Senators who spoke before me, Sen. Mungatana, who seconded the Bill and Sen. Mo Fire, have attempted to demystify what this Bill is all about. The Bill promotes nothing but meritocracy. It allows

Proceed, Sen. Olekina.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I rise to support the Public Service

(Amendment)

Bill

(National Assembly Bills No.46 of 2022)

.

Let me, first of all, appreciate both the National Assembly and the Senate for coming up with the concept of ensuring that Bills, which are as important as this, are co- sponsored by a Member from the “Lower” House and a Member of this House.

I appreciate the two Members, distinguished Sen. Cherarkey and Hon. Rahim Dawood, for having foresight in governance. This is what defines anticipatory governance. This is what tries to avoid difficult situations where the country becomes completely unmanageable.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the two distinguished Senators who spoke before me, Sen. Mungatana, who seconded the Bill and Sen. Mo Fire, have attempted to demystify what this Bill is all about. The Bill promotes nothing but meritocracy. It allows

Kenyans to be given an opportunity to serve their country without considering which clan or tribe they come from, hence, giving them an opportunity.

The thing that destroys the concept of governance in this country is the nonsense called clannism and tribalism. People in Kenya talk about something called state capture. In Narok County, we have family capture where one family, that of the Governor Patrick Ole Ntutu, is the one that calls all the shots in the county and gets all the contracts.

It is sad that I come from the same clan as the Governor for Narok. I am ashamed because if you go to Narok County, the entire human resource currently is from my clan. Where does he put all the other clans that exist in Narok?

You find a tug of war on a daily basis between brothers, who speak the same language and who when they get sick tomorrow, will need each other to donate blood. The Governor has completely ignored meritocracy and decided to put everyone who is from his clan.

Every single contract in Narok County is given to members of the family. If today someone dies and the county government decides to donate money, like what happened recently when a Member of County Assembly (MCA) died, the Governor of Narok donated about Kshs2.5 million. However, the tent was provided by a family member. So, Kshs600,000 went to pay for the tent and Kshs170,000 went to pay for security, all of whom were from the same clan.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, this Bill is long overdue. It will ensure that we carry out specific audits of human resources. We want to know every single person employed in every single county government.

This Bill complements another Bill, sponsored mostly by the International Monetary Fund (IMF) and the World Bank. However, I do not subscribe to their thinking on the issue of conflict of interest.

When the framers of the Constitution brought about Article 232, this is what they had in mind. Framers of the Constitution had the future generations in mind. Today, we focus a lot on the girl-child. Every single project out there is to defend the girl-child.

In this country, including in this House, we talk about the two-thirds gender rule. When we discuss about it, there is only one thing that comes to our mind; the female gender. It is because of the cultural context where women have been treated as second- class citizens and been left behind.

Do we ask ourselves about the boy-child? If we put all our efforts on the girl- child, what about the boy-child? Who is going to support the boy-child? These are issues that we need to contextualize. We need to have futuristic thoughts, that is, thinking about what we anticipate may happen in the future.

Anticipatory governance is a subject that all of us must start thinking about. It cuts across everything. It begins with the human resource. If you only employ one clan, what happens in the future? What about the other clan? Will they be resilient or resentful? What will happen to other ethnic groups? If we only think about the current situation and focus on the past, then we will miss the point. We have to start thinking about the future.

Some of the challenges we face are as a result of debts that we have accumulated as a country. If we put people full of mediocrity to run State departments because they

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Let me start by thanking Sen. Cherarkey for agreeing to pick up this Bill that has been concurred by the National Assembly, which was also brought by Hon. Rahim. I hope I have pronounced his name correctly.

I also want to appreciate colleagues who have spoken in regards to this Bill, with an indication of supporting it. Let me start with where I come from in terms of the name I hold, which is “Mutinda”.

The discussion of this amendment is much more on ethnic, gender and Persons with Disability (PWDs) issues. It reminded me of the first time I came to Parliament. When I said my name, the second thing someone would ask me is if I am the daughter of the former Mutinda. The notion, expectation and perception has been for the longest time, that for you to be in a certain office or level, then you must be from a specific royal and big family. However, that was not the case.

Some of us are very happy and proud to be the products of ‘bottom-up’. It is not because of the big names of our families. It is because of the belief of the one chicken seller and son of the Kalenjin people, who had a dream and believed in it. For years on, he walked the dream and today, he is the sitting President of the great Republic of this country.

He believed in giving equal opportunity; not looking at who is your father, mother or who you are related to, but what you are capable of. It is in that, where some of us - I personally included - were granted opportunity to represent the great people of Kenya in the Senate of the 13th Parliament.

If you look back, we have seen leaders, even, currently as we speak, whose children are serving in different Parliaments, for example, the East African Legislative Assembly (EALA) . They have taken their own kids. What about the child who does not come from the wealthy family?

Thank you, Sen. Olekina. I will call upon Sen. Tabitha Mutinda to proceed.

With the data I have been able to look through, you will find that only 13 out of the 47 counties have adhered to Section 65(1) (e) of the County Governments Act 2012, which indicates on -

“(e) the need to ensure that at least thirty percent of the vacant posts at entry level are filled by candidates who are not from the dominant ethnic community in the county.”

The composition of the dominant ethnic community should be 70 per cent and 30 per cent of the non-dominant communities for them to have an equal opportunity in that county.

Nairobi County is cosmopolitan. Our population is very high. The County Government of Nairobi has over 13,000 employees, and out of that, you will realize we have numbers like 15 per cent of the Kikuyus, 15 per cent for Kalenjins, 11 per cent for Luhyas and 9 per cent for Luos.

Some of them like the Kikuyus are the majority, but you find that some of the communities like even where I come from, from the Kamba community, you realize the number ---

Sen. Mandago, what is you point of order? Kindly, resume your seat, Sen. Tabitha Mutinda.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the hon. Member has cited percentages of particular communities. I would like to know whether that is authentic data and that she can produce evidence. As far as I am concerned, we are not 15 per cent in Nairobi. In fact, we are among the marginalized in Nairobi.

Sen. Tabitha Mutinda, are you able to table the statistics on the percentages that you have made reference to in your comments to the Bill?

I appreciate the keenness of the Senator. It is good and I am happy that he is keen. Sen. Mandago, the data that I have used, I have just gotten it. If you go to the site, you will be able to get it from there. I can share it with you just after this, if you allow. I have just gotten it from the site.

I speak about my county because it is the county that I represent.

You may then proceed to share those statistics to Sen. Mandago’s satisfaction.

Proceed.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speakers, Sir, and I appreciate the keen listening of Sen. Mandago.

Thank you, Sen. Mandago. Mr. Temporary Speaker, allow me to still proceed and say that is the data that is in place. Yes, Nairobi is cosmopolitan area, but still, it should allow all types of ethnic groups to also have an equal opportunity within the same county.

You realize that our basic language is Swahili and English. However, in some of these counties, it is sad because the language that is there is just pure vernacular, that does not promote what we uphold as a country.

Remember in each and every county, we have the department of Tourism and Culture, but still, we should uphold our Swahili and English to the highest level.

You may then proceed to share those statistics to Sen. Mandago’s satisfaction.

Proceed.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speakers, Sir, and I appreciate the keen listening of Sen. Mandago.

Thank you, Sen. Mandago. Mr. Temporary Speaker, allow me to still proceed and say that is the data that is in place. Yes, Nairobi is cosmopolitan area, but still, it should allow all types of ethnic groups to also have an equal opportunity within the same county.

You realize that our basic language is Swahili and English. However, in some of these counties, it is sad because the language that is there is just pure vernacular, that does not promote what we uphold as a country.

Remember in each and every county, we have the department of Tourism and Culture, but still, we should uphold our Swahili and English to the highest level.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

I urge colleagues that this is one of the Amendment Bills that we need to support 100 per cent. It does not only take care of you, but also your children's children. If this is not done, we will continue singing the same song. It will become difficult.

The faking of documents needs to stop. I support the Government in ensuring in that they verify documents.

With all those few remarks, I support the Bill. I congratulate Sen. Cherarkey for picking up this particular Bill. These are some of the Bills that the National Assembly will appreciate. As Senate, we need to adopt this Bill. This is the way to work. This is the way to go.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

Sen. Crystal Asige, proceed.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for allowing me to contribute to the Public Service (Values and Principles) (Amendment) Bill (National Assembly Bills No.46 of 2022)

Reports show that when you hire a PWD, you increase productivity, innovation and loyalty. This is because with few chances for employment, we, PWDs, stick close to the people that give us opportunities and we are loyal to those organisations.

Reports also show that when you hire a PWD, you increase empathy within the workforce. You increase belonging and understanding of diversity because of sharing the same space with other non-disabled counterparts in the workforce.

In Kenya, statistics show that out of approximately 18 million people in our workforce in the formal sector, approximately 500,000 are PWDs. That is less than 3 per cent of our workforce right now. That is abysmal!

As I said before, the workforce in the PSC only accounts for 1.4 per cent PWDs. Through this Bill, I wish to see this number increase rapidly because we have been waiting for far too long to be represented fully within the Public Service Commission and other boards.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I hope that the co-sponsor of this Bill, that is, Sen. Cherarkey, will listen keenly to what I am about to suggest. There is something in the disabled community, which is a real challenge to us. First of all, the public must understand that within the disabled community, there is diversity therein.

People with Disabilities (PWDs) are not homogenous. We are diverse in our disabilities. That means that when you are hiring and giving opportunities for participation and inclusion of PWDs, we need to make sure that we are diverse in the types of disabilities we are catering to.

What does that mean? That means that in this Report, we are supposed to find out clearly how many are visually impaired or blind, how many are employed that are deaf, wheelchair users, autistic, have downs syndrome, cerebral palsy, multiple sclerosis, quadriplegic and so on. We should not just rest at saying that we have hired 10 people with albinism and, therefore, we are working and are in line with the Constitution. No! We need to go further and make sure that the people with disabilities we are hiring are also diverse by the nature of their disability. This is so that we give different sectors within the disabled community a chance at employment and to be represented at all levels. It is not enough to just say that we have one or two disabilities represented, and that it is okay; we are fine now and we have adhered to what this particular Bill asks us to do. We need to go further than that.

I suggest to Sen. Cherarkey, the Senator for Nandi County, to make sure that the word ‘diverse disabilities’ is also included in this amendment, not just ‘persons with disabilities’ but ‘persons with diverse disabilities. This is so that we make sure that all sectors of our disabled community and the fraternity at large are also being given a chance at employment and representation in our country.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, it is a well-known fact that many in the public and private sector do hire those with easier - I will put this in quotes, I am going to be careful and sensitive but this is an ongoing argument in the community – “easier to handle” disabilities. This is because it is thought that when you hire a blind person like myself, it means that you will have to hire an aide for me to work properly and get assistive equipment, including computers, Information Technology (IT) software, which are

costly. It also means that you have to get a special trainer to come in and assist someone like me to understand and work on these technologies and devices.

Therefore, the cost of hiring a visually impaired person is seen as too high. What do people do to circumvent this? They hire someone with a more “palatable” disability. That is completely out of order and it is wrong. It is perhaps the reason I am the first and only Senator with visual impairment.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, of all the years that this House has been running, I am the first and the only Senator with visual impairment. That should not be the case. I should not be the first and the only. There should have been many more before me and after me. I hope that my existence and my sheer being in this space will show people that people with visual impairment and who are blind are just as productive, if not more than, a whole range of people who have come through these doors. That is one amendment I wish Sen. Cherarkey would take forward as he continues to move this Bill and get support from colleague Senators.

We have to look into not just the employment of people with disabilities but the training and retention of people with disabilities. I spoke to the Chairperson of the Public Service Commission (PSC) a week ago, when he appeared before our Committee on Labour and Social Welfare. I explained to him and his team that it is not enough to just advertise and recruit a person with disability. They should train them, so that they can continue to upscale.

What is the PSC doing to make sure that they retain them and not just employ them for six months and say that they have ticked the box? We are progressively actioning the 5 per cent principle of employment representation as per the Constitution; but saying, how can we retain these Persons with Disabilities (PwDs)? What do we need to do? How do we go above and beyond what is required of us on paper so that we can have these PwDs stay with us for two or five years or even until retirement because like I said, there is a huge case for hiring PWDs?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, this is not just in the Public Service nationally. When you look at the same in county governments, I have said before and will not tire to say that there are 21 counties currently that have no PWD representation. This House and the “Lower” House, the National Assembly, are doing nothing about it right now. I seem to be the only one talking about it. If we had full representation, we would have more voices amplifying this egregious misrepresentation of PWDs.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I applaud the Mover of the Bill, in his effort as well as the co-sponsor from the National Assembly in putting these issues forward regarding values and principles; and make sure that the sponsors understand the importance of what I am saying. It is not just semantics; adding a word here or removing a word there. Language and how is interpreted is extremely important and that is how people in this country have been able to go around this particular 5 per cent principle requirement. Our laws and the language we use in our laws is not specific and does not pin people down with consequences for a lack of adherence to the Constitution.

I also concur with colleague Senators who have said that there must be consequences for non-compliance. With everything we are doing, there has to be absolute consequences. What is the consequences of not reaching 5 per cent principle in this

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I was panicking about the time. I am still not sure about the minutes I have. However, let me say that I support this Bill and congratulate Sen. Cherarkey and the Co-sponsor of the Bill.

If only this law, once enacted would be able to cure the circus that is in our service commissions, both in the Public Service Commission and at the county level. This country has been put in a situation where nothing seems to matter. It is the strongest take-it-all or the survival for the fittest.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, if only we could rectify our public service, so that merit is ---

Proceed, Sen. Tobiko.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I was panicking about the time. I am still not sure about the minutes I have. However, let me say that I support this Bill and congratulate Sen. Cherarkey and the Co-sponsor of the Bill.

If only this law, once enacted would be able to cure the circus that is in our service commissions, both in the Public Service Commission and at the county level. This country has been put in a situation where nothing seems to matter. It is the strongest take-it-all or the survival for the fittest.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, if only we could rectify our public service, so that merit is ---

Hon. Senators, it is now 6.30 p.m., time to adjourn the Senate. The Senate, therefore, stands adjourned until Tuesday, 5th March, 2024, at 2.30 p.m.

When we resume, Sen. Tobiko will have a balance of eight minutes to continue on this amendment of the Bill.

The Senate rose at 6.30 p.m.