Thursday, 28th August, 2025 Special Sitting

Clerk, do we have quorum?

Serjeant-at-Arms, kindly ring the Quorum Bell for 10 minutes.

Serjeant-at-Arms, ring the Quorum Bell for a further 10 minutes.

Order, hon. Senators, we do have quorum. So, we will proceed with the business as contained in today’s Order Paper.

Clerk, you may proceed to call the first Order.

Services, Senate.

Hon. Senators, at the adjournment of proceedings yesterday, we were still hearing the evidence from the County Assembly. The witness who was on the stand was Mr. Alfred Korir Kimutai. You may usher in the witness.

Counsel for the County Assembly, you have one hour and 32 minutes to conclude your evidence-in-chief. The Counsel for the Governor, you have a maximum of 1 hour and 34 minutes for cross-examination. Can you power the microphone for the Counsel for the Governor?

Mr. Katwa Kigen: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, and Hon. Senators. The arrangement is on time and everything is okay. I, however, have an application to make.

As it turns out, the Governor's case would require that we have expertise in Information Technology (IT) . We very kindly request leave to rely on an affidavit and a report made by one Mr. Okonjo Oguya, who has sworn an affidavit and analysed the same audit logs that the County Assembly presented.

We wish we could have done this earlier, but the efforts to get an expert took a while. We appreciate the importance you attach to the question of whether or not proper voting took place. Owing to the importance of that point, we deemed it necessary to do the report, and we very kindly request for its accommodation.

We also recall that Mr. Ongoya himself said that our contestation of the propriety of the working of that system can only be legitimate if we have an expert report.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, for all those reasons, we plead with you to allow us to rely on the affidavit and report. The report is dated August, 2025 and the affidavit is dated yesterday. For those reasons, we pray that you allow us to rely on it.

We have sent an email of that report and the affidavit to both the Senate and our colleagues. We will shortly be having the hard copies.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

These documents were not contained in your original bundle?

Mr. Katwa Kigen: Mr. Speaker, Sir, no, they were not. We just managed to put them together yesterday.

Counsel for the County Assembly. Mr. Elias Mutuma: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. For record purposes, my name is Elias Mutuma for the County Assembly.

Services, Senate.

The application by my learned friend, Katwa Kigen, is opposed. You will realise that this application is being made in the middle of a trial, where our expert witness is already on the stand. This is an attempt to patch up their case.

The affidavit by our witness was served upon Counsel for the Governor on Monday. There was no attempt from the Governor's team to file a counter-expert report. It is, therefore, an afterthought and an attempt to patch up their case. It will greatly prejudice us because we are in the middle of a trial. We have done almost 90 per cent of our case. How are we supposed to respond to an expert testimony that we have not seen?

For that reason, this application is opposed. Thank you.

Counsel for the Governor, where are these documents? Are you yet to supply them to the Senate?

Mr. Peter Wanyama: Mr. Speaker, Sir, we have already sent an email and supplied the soft copy. We have also sent the soft copy to our colleagues, and they have had the opportunity to review the document. The hard copies are being brought as we speak.

As a quick rejoinder in context, if you look at page one to around page 44 of volume 4A of the County Assembly documents, this case turns on a major issue, and we want that truth to come out. There are four Members of County Assembly (MCAs) who said someone voted for them. Yesterday, when Mr. Ongoya was presenting the testimony, he said that the IT person, who is on the stand, cut and pasted the logs from the system; the logs are here.

The IT expert will then be reacting to that to demonstrate that whatever they cut and pasted from the system was incomplete. There is critical information that links these four MCAs in the system. You therefore need an expert to say it, not us, the lawyers.

Once we receive the hard copies, I will make a ruling on it.

Let us proceed with the witness. Mr. Elias Mutuma: Alfred, I just want to remind you that you are still under oath. We will begin from where we left yesterday; I want to spend the shortest time with you, so that we can move on to our other witnesses.

Alfred, you have obviously seen the affidavit of the Governor.

Yes, I have seen.

Those four people are Hon. Hillary Bosuben, Hon. Amos Birir and Hon. Martin Cheruiyot.

Services, Senate.

Yes, I am able to do that.

Hon. Senators, kindly turn to volume 4A of the County Assembly's documents, from page 13.

The next one is

Before voting, what time had he logged in?

Let me refer Hon. Senators to page 13. That is where we have our system audit logs. I will start with the first one, so that we can flow down. We will start with the audit log number 123456 where Hon. Martin logged in. That is Integrated Payroll and Personnel Database (IPPD) No.1996030132.

What time did Martin log in?

The time he logged in is 7.26.06 p.m.

What time did Martin vote?

He voted at 7:26:12 p.m.

Let us go to the next MCA, Mr. Amos Birir. What time did Mr. Amos log into the system?

For the benefit of the Hon. Senators, when you say he voted at 7.22, is it a.m or p.m.?

Mr. Alfred Korir: P.m.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: Correct.

It is 19:25:12, when

That is entry number 13.

Mr. Alfred Korir: Correct.

From the top.

Yes. Then he cast his vote at 19:25:18. The actual choice that was picked is also shown here.

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

Let us go to the last Member, Hillary.

Hillary logged in at 19:23:28.

That is Transaction No.6, Entry No.6 from page 13, correct?

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

Proceed.

He cast his vote at 19:23:34.

Where is the source of the information that you have just shared with the hon. Senators? Where did you get the information that you have just shared?

Services, Senate.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: Is that information still available if someone was to log into the system?

Yes, it is.

Have you seen any other opinion that is contrary to what you have stated as you make your presentation today?

No. Okay, I wanted to illustrate---

Before you illustrate, just answer my question whether you have seen any other expert opinion disagreeing with the logs.

No, I have not.

Thank you. What did you want to demonstrate?

I wanted to demonstrate something, hon. Senators. When it comes to information technology, we have what we call data. So, data is the raw facts. What we are showing you under page 13, the audit logs, is the raw data. Once it was processed, it produced the information that was being displayed in our dashboards.

Yes, I confirm.

Also, indicate and confirm that there was an indicator board present at the Assembly.

Yes, I confirm. There was an indicator board at the Chamber.

Did the indicator board transmit results in real time?

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

Were those results streamlined live?

It was streamlined live in our Facebook and YouTube page. It is still available even up to now.

Services, Senate.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: Is that information still available in your YouTube and Facebook channels?

Yes, that is one of the videos we cropped from YouTube.

Are you able to tell from your audit logs whether your audit logs confirm that at this specific hour there was no vote cast?

Yes, I can confirm.

Can you lead us to that specific place?

Not audit log, but I want us to see page 35 that displays the results. That was our dashboard or indicator board that we were using. That is under volume 4A. The proposed removal from office by impeachment was the Motion. On that matter, we had zero ‘yes,’ zero ‘no,’ zero ‘abstain,’ and the total votes were zero.

What time was that?

That was at 19:14:33, the time I took the screenshot.

So, at 19:14:33, there was no vote that had been cast?

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

That is false.

Can that be confirmed from the system that no vote had taken place at this time?

Yes, it is.

At minute 5.21.

Services, Senate.

We can even pause there. You are able to corroborate even at that time.

I wish I could get the exact timestamp of the YouTube, so that we can confirm also whether at that timestamp--- This is because the one I wanted to play was at 19.

Kindly proceed to 9.51.

Minute 9.51 was displaying the results of 21 votes and that was at 19.19.56 based on the times I have picked because it is not very clear. That is the time when the hon. Member from Kipchinchin under page 31 cast his vote, and it was tallied to 21 votes.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, for the sake of time, we can proceed. Can you confirm what---

Yes, I can confirm that by 19.19.56, we had 21 votes already cast.

On YouTube and Facebook page.

Let us go to KCAV1 minute 14.18. That should be the last vote that was cast.

Minute 14.18.

As we wait for the video clip, confirm from the log when the last vote was cast.

To my level best it was transparent, free and fair.

Is there any evidence of any interference from third parties who were not supposed to vote?

Services, Senate.

That forms a very comfortable closing remark for me.

Thank you. That is all for this witness. The next witness will demonstrate that.

Counsel for the County Assembly, are you done with the evidence-in-chief for this witness?

Mr. Elias Mutuma: Mr. Speaker, Sir, yes, I am.

Counsel for the Governor, you may now proceed to cross-examine. Just before you proceed, let us hear from Sen. Onyonka.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, before the expert sits down, I need a clarification. How many people---

Hon. Onyonka, your colleagues would wish to seek clarification as well. That will come after the cross-examination is done.

Proceed, Counsel. Mr. Evanson Kirui: Mr. Speaker, Sir, I represent the Governor. I am going to rely on volume one of the Governor’s documents contained in a pink cover and volume4A, page one to three of the County Assembly’s documents.

Kindly confirm that is the list of Members that received the laptops in September,

Yes. Under No.4 page four of the same volume four---

No, I am referring to pages one, two and three. I am concerned with only those pages. You have confirmed what I wanted to know.

Yes, I do.

That is the first link the MCAs received?

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

Services, Senate.

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes, that is not the IPPPD number. It is the ID number because---

Mr. Evanson Kirui: No, it is the ID number?

Witness, respond to the questions. Mr. Evanson Kirui: So, Hon. Dora’s ID number appears there?

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

Mr. Alfred Korir: 29159790.

Which one?

Volume 4A. She is appearing on page two, No.36. So, I want my technical person to use the link that we were using yesterday with this witness and input these details as the logins. So, the username for Dora Keino, used 29159790 being the ID number and also 29159790 as the password. You confirm that I can log in?

Yes, that is why we said it is available.

So, I can still log in?

You can still log in, but you cannot---

So, if I had the ID number of Dora that day, I could login and vote on her behalf?

The reason why we issued the username and password---

Kindly, answer the question. If I had the ID number for Dora that day, the ID number as the username, and the ID number as the password, you confirm that I could have voted, since that is an IP link?

Yes, I can confirm.

So, you can confirm that I could have voted that day. I want us to go to the next person, Hon. Paul Bii. His IPPD number I am referring to is on page 104(a) No.15. The ID number is 10013791. Kindly confirm.

I confirm.

You confirm also that the number indicated on page 259 of volume one of the Governor's bundle of documents is for Hon. Paul Kiptoo Bii, that is the username indicated.

Yes, I confirm.

Kindly, my technical person, indicate that the ID number, being 10013791, as the username and the password is the same ID number. So, you confirm that also, if I had the ID number for Hon. Paul Bii, I could have voted?

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

I am a custodian of this information and I---

It is either ‘yes’ or ‘no.’ Do you have the ID number?

For integrity reasons, no.

Services, Senate.

Mr. Evanson Kirui: We cannot confirm if you have integrity. If you were not a person of integrity, could you have voted?

Mr. Alfred Korir: As a system admin, I was logged into the system. I could not have voted.

Mr. Evanson Kirui: You could not have voted, but someone else with that link and the ID numbers could have voted.

Mr. Alfred Korir: True.

Our time was short.

You confirm that yesterday there was a Senate demo that was indicated in your system?

We had a different--- In fact, that is where I can explain.

Did you have a Senate demo in your system yesterday?

I had created--- You know we only---

You had created a Senate demo.

It was on a different link.

On a different link?

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

11 minutes, 44 seconds.

You confirm that the Standing Order No.77(4) of the County Assembly of Kericho provides that voting is only for five minutes?

I confirm.

You confirm that it should be five minutes?

However, with the permission of the Speaker, which is in the HANSARD, he extended additional two minutes.

Additional two minutes will make it seven, not 11, right?

When additional two minutes was added, there was loud consultation or some commotion.

Services, Senate.

No. This is a voting link, consultation---

You can confirm from the HANSARD.

So, it took 11 minutes?

It took 11 minutes.

The Standing Order says it should take?

Five minutes.

The voting deadline indicated in your documents is 8.58

Mr. Alfred Korir: Between?

There are.

Are there any IP addresses?

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

Our IP addresses are on page 29 of our documents.

No, I am referring to the audit logs. Should audit logs have IP addresses?

Mr. Alfred Korir: No.

Mr. Alfred Korir: No.

Based on the---

No, anyone else---

IP addresses that have been used specifically to vote here are from our own gadgets within the Assembly.

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

Services, Senate.

Ms. Wanjiku Thiong’o: Mr. Speaker, Sir, Hon. Senators and my colleagues, my name is Wanjiku Thiong'o. I represent the Governor. I will pick it up from where my colleague has stopped.

Alfred, I will refer you to your affidavit, which is in your volume two. It is your testimony, as my colleague was cross-examining you, that the username was the IPPD numbers and the password was the ID. Is that correct?

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes, correct. Ms. Wanjiku Thiong’o:

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

We have been working on it. Ms. Wanjiku Thiong’o: When did it become available, a specific date?

It became available for voting two days before voting. That is when we created the link when we were testing whether the members---

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

Yes, I do. Ms. Wanjiku Thiong’o: It was the first time it was used?

They have been using other systems in the Assembly. Ms. Wanjiku Thiong’o: To take that further, you can confirm there was no opportunity for the MCAs to then develop their personal password or change the password before any activity is undertaken?

Mr. Alfred Korir: No.

Services, Senate.

Mr. Alfred Korir: That is our internal--- From our affidavit, I have indicated that we have been using a financial management operation system that had---

Ms. Wanjiku Thiong’o: Let us go to paragraph B (2).

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

Ms. Wanjiku Thiong’o: Have you adduced evidence to that?

I did not but--- Ms. Wanjiku Thiong’o: You did not?

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

Mr. Alfred Korir: No.

Ms. Wanjiku Thiong’o: Specific dates of these trainings?

They have been attending training--- Ms. Wanjiku Thiong’o: Specific dates of this training?

I cannot recall. Ms. Wanjiku Thiong’o: You cannot recall. We can move to the logs, which is in the same volume 4A. Hon. Senators, I am referring to volume 4A of the Assembly, page

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

From the oldest. Ms. Wanjiku Thiong’o: From the oldest?

From the recent to the oldest. Ms. Wanjiku Thiong’o: From the recent to the oldest?

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

Services, Senate.

Ms. Wanjiku Thiong’o: Move up to page 17. Confirm you have not attached a certificate of electronic evidence for us to understand the manner in which the logs were copied, to which device you pasted and from which you printed. Did you prepare such a certificate where you elaborate how you pasted and printed the logs? Did your lawyer guide you to do that?

Mr. Alfred Korir: I did not do that. Ms. Wanjiku Thiong’o: Mr. Speaker, it can go on record that this is an extract of electronic evidence and is not supported by the certificate under Section 109 of the Evidence Act.

With that, Hon. Senators, I am on page 13. You have told us it is on chronological order. Go to entry No.1. What is the timestamp? What is the time of that activity, entry one? Just read out the time.

It is 19:08--- Ms. Wanjiku Thiong’o: We are on page 13 of Volume 4A of the Assembly.

Yes, it is 19:08:48. Ms. Wanjiku Thiong’o: What is the next time on entry No.2?

Mr. Alfred Korir: 19:36:06.

Mr. Alfred Korir: 19:26:44.

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

Mr. Alfred Korir: No.

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

Services, Senate.

Mr. Alfred Korir: We rely on the Standing Orders. Ms. Wanjiku Thiong’o: You rely on the Standing Orders. So, you do not have them. Have you ever tried the penetration test to your system to see what my colleague was alluding to, that anyone who had the user ID and the ID numbers from wherever they were in this country, they could log in and vote and get out? Did you ever do some penetration test to confirm that there could be no hacking to your system?

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes, because in the Assembly, you have the firewall. Ms. Wanjiku Thiong’o: It is okay. Do you have the test certificates before us today?

Mr. Alfred Korir: No, I do not. Ms. Wanjiku Thiong’o: You do not. As I finalise, on your login, I know my colleague, Mr. Wanyama, will come in deeply to that. Confirm that apart from the IP address, your logs do not show us when a specific MCA gets in and when they log out. There are no log outs.

Most of them did not logout. Ms. Wanjiku Thiong’o: They did not log out?

Most of them. Ms. Wanjiku Thiong’o: So up to now, they are still in the system?

So, the extract of this I did not include because by the time I extracted, they did not log out.

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

It is the system that audits automatically. Ms. Wanjiku Thiong’o: So, it was you who developed these logs?

It is generated by the system. Ms. Wanjiku Thiong’o: By yourself? You are the one who went to the system and printed it out?

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

Mr. Alfred Korir: No.

Services, Senate. – that they are the ones you can link them to that vote? Can you link the particular like you were shown that one for Dora? Can you link them to that particular vote personally?

Mr. Alfred Korir: No, I cannot. Ms. Wanjiku Thiong’o: You cannot link them to that particular vote. So with that, let us go back to your--- As we try--- Just one more, Hon. Senators. Well I am at Volume 4A. I can leave it at that.

So that we wind up, Mr. Alfred Korir, let us go back to your paragraph two. As you seek to give credence to your testimony, are you testifying as an employee of the County Assembly or as an ICT expert?

Mr. Alfred Korir: Both as an employee of the County Assembly and the system admin.

Ms. Wanjiku Thiong’o: So, you confirm you are not an ICT expert? Are you an ICT expert, ‘yes’ or ‘no?’

Mr. Alfred Korir: No.

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

An

Which page? Ms. Wanjiku Thiong’o: I am sorry. This is the affidavit of Korir. It is on page 79 of volume two of the Assembly’s bundle. I am looking at his credentials where he has confirmed that he is not an ICT expert.

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

I think I forwarded the certificate to our team. Ms. Wanjiku Thiong’o: Have you attached them and can you show us?

They are not here. Ms. Wanjiku Thiong’o: You do not have them before the House. I will leave it at that.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, with your permission, I would like to invite

Can you again remind us the qualifications that you have in the ICT sector?

Services, Senate.

Mr. Alfred Korir: I have a degree in Business Information Systems, a diploma in Management of Information Systems from Multi-Media University (MMU)---

Yes, I am.

What is the policy?

It should be hosted on .go.ke, which is the Government platform.

Mr. Alfred Korir: kerichoassembly.go.ke.

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

We worked on it. It is our inbuilt system.

You are sure that you worked on it?

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

Are you sure about that?

Very sure.

And you are the user?

Services, Senate.

Mr. Alfred Korir: Of the system? The finance and other teams are the users of the system.

You are not the user of this system?

I do not understand properly the meaning of user, but I am the system admin.

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

As the system administrator, what are you supposed to do?

To allocate the rights to users to manage all the processes within that system.

It is the system admin who has the super rights to the system.

You have the super rights?

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

And who creates this system?

I have a team.

Where is it hosted?

We host with HostPinnacle.

This is important. What is HostPinnacle?

It is a hosting site.

Where is this HostPinnacle located? Is it public or private institution?

It is a private institution.

It is a private institution. The hosting of data from the County Assembly is on a private site and you have confirmed that HostPinnacle is a private institution. How was that procured? How did you procure the services of hosting your site with a private entity, despite the Government of Kenya’s policies on data protection? How did you do that? Did you procure services with HostPinnacle, which is a private entity, to host very important information on the impeachment of the Governor? Did you do that?

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

It is correct.

The question is: How did you procure an application for voting tied to a system that is hosted in a private site? Remember these are MCAs. You have their confidential data, Integrated Payroll and Personnel Database (IPPD) numbers and Identification (ID) numbers. Do you have a Service Level Agreement (SLA) with this private company that runs this platform?

Yes, we have.

Do you have it here?

Services, Senate.

I did not attach it because I did not know it will be needed.

You did not know it will be needed?

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

We just paid for the space directly.

You used public funds to pay for the hosting without procurement?

Since the hosting fee is not much, I paid directly.

From your private sources?

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

I have said we have an SLA.

What safeguards do they have on data protection?

I can get that from the website.

From your own. Just tell us because you are before the Senate. You are the ICT expert; remember, we are lawyers. We want to come into your world and you tell us what safeguards do we have to ensure that the confidential data of MCAs is not used by anyone else.

Nobody can access unless he has the rights to our site.

Have you gotten the approval of the Data Commissioner in this regard?

We relied really on the Standing Orders.

No, no. Have you gotten the approval in terms of data protection of the Data Commissioner for purposes of you giving out this private data of MCAs, which they use for voting to a private entity? It is a ‘yes’ or ‘no’ answer?

Mr. Alfred Korir: No.

We have a branch in Kenya.

Yeah, you have a branch in Kenya?

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yeah.

Services, Senate.

Mr. Peter Wanyama: Are you sure about that?

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yeah.

It is possible.

It is possible to check it as an ICT person?

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yeah.

I will make sure I confirm.

Have you confirmed?

We have the host.

Are you aware that the servers are actually hosted in Germany?

Yes, I am aware from the previous findings that I had.

That the servers are actually hosted in Germany?

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

I do not.

You do not?

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

When we will request for that information, they will.

And you are not aware? Will you then oppose if an ICT expert from our side comes to say that these servers are actually located in Frankfurt, Germany, and they are developed by a person known as Brian Njeru. Will you confirm, because that information, if you are an ICT person, you give me a laptop, I will quickly check, check, then I see Kenya, I see Germany, I see Brian Njeru. Can you confirm that information?

I have to log in and confirm.

Have you logged in to confirm? You have not?

I have not gone to that detail you have gone.

Ah. So, again, back to the same, same question that you have no guarantee on the security of the data by the MCAs in this private setup? You have no guarantee, right?

I choose not to answer that.

Okay. The Senators have heard it. Again, let us look at this system that you say you developed. Again, I will ask this question: MCAs are the users of this system, is that correct?

Mr. Alfred Korir: Correct.

Who else can use this system apart from the MCAs?

This electronic voting system?

Services, Senate.

Mr. Peter Wanyama: Yes, the one that you used for voting. You said MCAs are the end users, is that correct?

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

Who else can use this system?

The System administrator only.

System administrator?

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

Mr. Alfred Korir: Me.

Can the Clerk have access to this system?

No, we indicated system administrator/clerk because all the correspondence from the Assembly will finally come out from the Clerk.

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

All of them?

Only two did not have.

Who are they?

It is

Hon. Vincent, did he vote?

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

He voted which side? “Yes”, “No” or he did not vote?

He voted “Yes”.

He voted “Yes”. So only two MCAs do not have laptops, according to you? In your testimony - this is important - you confirm that at the County Assembly premises, there is no place where you can place a laptop?

Yes, I can confirm.

That there is no place where you can place a laptop?

Services, Senate.

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

ICT officers were in the Chambers---

Ah, you were there.

I was not there.

You were not there?

I was not in the Chambers.

So, you cannot tell. If you cannot tell, I will move on.

I cannot tell.

You cannot tell. I will move on. So where were you because you said you were not there? Where were you?

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

Yes, I did.

They are functional?

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

They do not use the laptops?

They use their phones.

They use their phones. I will come to the phones shortly.

Mr. Alfred Korir: Okay.

It is fully functioning, but most Members choose maybe---

But are you aware that these laptops are functioning or not? Are you aware?

They are functioning, yes.

You are aware?

I am aware.

Okay. Have you installed and updated software in these laptops?

We usually do that.

You usually do that?

We update the antivirus every time it expires and any other updates they require.

Which software do you use?

We use Kaspersky.

Services, Senate.

Mr. Peter Wanyama: Kaspersky? Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

Yes, I can confirm.

Do you confirm that under the data protection laws, ID numbers are confidential information?

Because it was for internal issues---

Ah, wait. Do you confirm that ID numbers are confidential information?

Yes, I do.

Okay, and for this system that you say you created, these ID numbers were the passwords to this system for voting. Do you confirm that?

Yes, I do.

The ID is publicly available. What was the username for an MCA?

IPPD number.

Are these IPPD numbers the ones in page four of volume 4A?

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

Publicly available? We have them in our data base.

They are publicly available to members of staff of Kericho County Assembly?

Those who can interact with the system can access.

They are publicly available to you as the administrator?

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

As a system administrator, no.

If you have the two links, I am not saying you. If anyone has the IPPD number and the password of the MCA and then you have the link, could you have voted for that MCA?

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

Services, Senate.

Mr. Peter Wanyama: For the integrity of this voting system, yourself as the Information and Communication Technology (ICT) administrator, you could have voted for any of the MCAs. Is that correct? I am using the words, “you could have voted”, because of the information that you had. You could have voted for any of the MCAs. Is that correct?

Yes, it is correct.

Now, go to page 12 of volume 4A. We now have the information to access the system. Now, the system is being deployed and the evidence here is at page 12 of volume 4A. Is that correct?

The link.

Is that correct? That at page 12, we are now activating the system?

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

An S

You send an SMS to who?

All the phone numbers of the

This SMS was for what purpose?

To provide the link to access the voting.

Was this a bulk SMS like the one we usually receive from people who market services?

I am asking, is it a bulk SMS?

Yes, it is.

Okay. Thank you. You send these links to mobile numbers of MCAs. Is that correct?

Mr. Alfred Korir: Correct.

Mr. Alfred Korir: 48.

Mr. Alfred Korir: 47.

Who was the 48th person that received a link to vote?

Me, as the system administrator.

You received a link to vote as a system administrator?

To confirm whether the link was opening. I actually added myself there intentionally to make sure the link I am forwarding can connect to the link.

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

Services, Senate.

Mr. Alfred Korir: To confirm whether the link attached to the message I sent is really working.

Mr. Peter Wanyama: You had access to the system anyway as the administrator?

Yes.

Any time, you had access to the system?

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

What is his full name?

Hillary Kibet Bosuben.

He is the one that appears at page 27, volume 4A? Is that correct?

Let me confirm.

Go to volume 4A, at page 27.

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

Okay. Then the next MCA is who?

Amos Birir.

What is his full name?

Amos Birir Kimutai.

Then the third MCA?

Martin Cheruiyot Kiplang’at.

Who is the fourth MCA?

Edna Tanui.

Okay. This is very important. Are you aware if their telephone numbers were linked to the laptops?

Linked to?

Yes, their telephones were linked to the laptops or they were operating the voting from their phones. There are instances where I can link my phone to the laptop, then I operate it from there. There are instances where I just need to use my phone, which has internet access.

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

So, which is which?

I was not in the Chamber. I cannot confirm.

You cannot confirm?

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

Services, Senate.

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

That one I can---

I handled the presidential election petition and we had an issue on ICT. I did something about penetration sites. Do you know about them?

I know.

In this system, did you do penetration tests to confirm that it is a very secure system and we are ready to deploy it?

We confirmed because the---

Did you do penetration tests?

No, we did not.

You did not. So, you do not have any report on the security of the system?

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

We had trained them on the internal system.

What about the voting system?

The voting system was too easy to understand and we are using the same platform.

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

Do we all have the same knowledge as you?

We provided---

Are all MCAs ICT personnel?

We provided the guide on how they could vote through that link.

Why is there a requirement that training must be done?

To build the capacity.

To build the capacity to use of the system.

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

User manual?

Do you have a user manual to show the Senate here, the House, the upper Chamber, that this is a user manual, these MCAs were trained, they are lying to the Senate, they were trained. Do you have it before the Senate?

No, I do not.

You do not have. Now, let us come to the penultimate question. This is a bit technical. You will help us to understand.

Services, Senate.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, we are at pages 13 to 17 of volume 4A. This is the penultimate question and it will tell you where the fraud is. If you have sent me a message to my phone and that phone has access to internet, right?

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

Is there Wi-Fi in the County Assembly?

Yes, we have. Mr. Peter Wanyama Are you aware whether the speaker had informed members that they are going to use their phone, that they are going to use electronic voting, so that all of them carry their phones to the Chamber? Are you aware? If you are not aware, we will move on.

The Standing Orders dictates that.

Are you aware that at some point, some MCAs stood up on division and said, “we are standing up,” and they made the requisite majority, and therefore, the speaker ought not to have used electronic voting? Are you aware of that?

I am not aware.

You are not aware. So, let us come back to what you are aware. When you send me a link to a phone, and that phone is internet-based, I can actually vote, eh?

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

What if the phone does not have internet?

We have the internet in the Assembly.

Okay, are there phones which are not internet-based? Is “Mulika Mwizi” internet-based?

Mr. Alfred Korir: No.

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

IP address, yes.

It is called an IP?

Mr. Alfred Korir: Address.

What is the full name of IP?

Internet Protocol.

Internet Protocol, but we call it IP address.

Services, Senate.

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

Mr. Alfred Korir: True.

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

We have the IP address that shows.

What evidence do you need?

We have to see the login.

Ah, login, hold on there. So, you are saying that of necessity, for any evidence to be correct that someone voted, then you must have logged- in.

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

Mr. Peter Wanyama: Username.

Time you logged in.

No, let us start with the first information. What is the first information in accordance with the ICT protocols?

Mr. Alfred Korir: Username.

Yes, we did.

With your team?

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

Services, Senate.

PHP, not Java?

Not Java.

Thank you very much. So, you are familiar with these codes?

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

Should the codes contain a timestamp?

Yes, they should.

If someone has access to the system, will it show their names?

Names, as in?

From a computer technology perspective, will the logs show their names or the details that you put in before? That is the IPPD number and the ID.

The IPPD number.

Not the password, right?

Not the password.

Not the password, the IPPD number. Is the IPPD number in this?

Yes, it is.

Thank you. Will it show the names of persons in accordance with the computer programming language that you say you used? Can it show a name of an individual?

Under the audit log, it does not show, but in the---

Just wait first. I am looking at the audit. Do they show or not?

When you log in.

When you log in.

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

It shows the IPPD number.

Only the IPPD number. So, my question is, why is it from your audit logs you have names of individuals that appear? For example, you have Peter, who appears seven times in the computer-generated logs and you are saying it is not possible?

They are trained.

And some MCAs tried to log in using his name?

Services, Senate.

Mr. Alfred Korir: This is because of the suggested username, before reading the- --

Who else attempted to log in using their names?

I saw Anthony--- Let me just confirm. Anthony Ruto. Anthony Ruto from page 15. Yes, I see Kemoi Peter.

Not in the logs.

Is it your testimony before this House that the IP address of these MCAs who accessed the system cannot be in the logs?

Yes, that is my--- Yes.

It ought not to be in the logs?

Not to be in the logs.

It ought not to be in the logs?

But in the real--- In the voting that they did---

No, I am just asking a simple question. Yes. If I have accessed this system and the system has generated a report, will this report show the IP address of the telephone numbers of the MCAs who voted?

Yes, it shows under the detailed report.

Under the detailed report?

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

It is in page 29.

Page 29. Are these the logs that you are talking about?

I am talking about the IP---

No, the logs. The computer logs.

The logs do not have--- The computer logs are the ones we are looking at page 13.

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

No, I extracted all the logs.

But where are the--- I am just asking a simple question. This person attempted to log in. Where is the IP address for each person? This is because as a person who has handled electoral disputes, I can quickly see from logs that a log ought to contain the IP address. In fact, the purpose of the IP address is for security of the system.

Services, Senate.

So as the user, you can tell what happens and who is trying to get into my system. Then you can trace them and say, “Mr. Peter Wanyama, this is the log that he is using, this is the IP address, and I will shut him down”. Is that correct?

It is correct.

So, your logs are cut and paste. There is information in the system, which you do not have before the Senate?

Mr. Alfred Korir: No.

Thank you.

Mr. Bett, I will be struggling with time, so I will just go straight to the question I want to ask you.

Mr. Alfred Korir: Korir.

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

And that is the 47 MCAs and the---

The system administrator.

And the system administrator. You appreciate that our case is that four MCAs were voted for. You appreciate that is our case, is it not?

I know the case that they were voted for.

Yes, you understand that, is it not?

From my end, I know they voted.

Yes, I understand. Your defence is that they voted.

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

No, I cannot vote as an admin.

Why would you not, Mr. Korir? Why would you not?

This is because I was logged in as an admin to monitor the way they are.

But you had all the protocols. You had the username.

I had, yes.

And you had the ID number.

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

Services, Senate.

Mr. Katwa Kigen: Similarly, when my learned friend, Mr. Kirui, was demonstrating, he showed you that when you log into one of the sites, you can get the whole list of the payroll numbers.

Not the site, but we have in our database.

Yes, you have. If Mr. Rogony had access to that database or if you, his friend, gave him the password and the username for Hon. Kibet, he could have voted for Hon. Kibet. Is that so? As a question of possibility, is it possible?

Once they have the password, it is possible.

I would like to ask on Volume 4A. You have given us items Nos.6, 7, 8 and 9. No.6 is the biometric attendance register, No.7 is the system extract of voting results, No.8 is an extract of detailed votes cast and No.9 is the screenshot images of indicator board display. You can see that?

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

I have the certificate; it was in there.

On all these items, six to nine?

Certificate of electronic 40. I have confirmed from you.

Could you tell us which page it is on?

Page 114, that is, volume two, page 114.

It is in the County Assembly’s bundle, hon. Senators. I will come back to that question as my colleagues assist me on that, but I will move on to a different issue.

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

Could you confirm that the first display displayed six votes?

Yes, I do.

Can you confirm that you have no display showing escalation of the votes from one to six? The first entry is six.

No, inside that one, the display---

I am asking from what you said. Can you confirm that you do not have any display showing graduation of the votes from one to six?

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

Services, Senate.

Mr. Katwa Kigen: You have not given us the protocols of your relationship with the host of that domain. Do you have the permission of the Data Protection Director for the hosting of Kenyan's data in Germany?

No, I do not.

Have you registered this system under Section 18 of the Data Protection Act?

We relied on the Standing Orders.

Just answer my question. Have you registered it?

Mr. Alfred Korir: No.

It is an internal system.

I have asked; do you have or you do not have?

I do not have.

As we speak today, you said that you developed the system a day before the voting, is that so?

Not a day. The system came live the day before.

As you were using it on the 15th August, did you have a policy on the use of that specific system?

Electronic voting is in the Standing Orders.

Apart from the Standing Orders, do you have a standalone policy on how to use that electronic voting system?

We have not developed a policy.

Do you have a manual?

We do not have.

Do you have any regulations regarding the use of electronic voting?

The Standing Orders.

Please, answer my question. Do you have any regulations on the use?

Mr. Alfred Korir: No.

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

Services, Senate.

Mr. Alfred Korir: From his speech, yes, he did not know. He did not even know how the system would be logged into.

Mr. Katwa Kigen: He said that he did not know whether there was a system, is that so?

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

Considering the Standing Orders.

The Speaker does not know the Standing Orders?

He knows.

How come then you are saying that? Let us move on. There was something you said yesterday in your testimony, but first let us hear what you have just said a moment ago. Have you just said that he did not know how it would work?

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

And are you an MCA?

I am staff.

So, as staff, you decide for the MCAs what they should do?

It was a voting system, I had to keep the details.

Did you need to consult with the Speaker on that issue or you decided on your own?

We were expecting---

My question is, did you consult with the Speaker on what password and username to use?

No, I did not.

You did not. On the same page 195, it is true that long before voting, the 18 MCAs who incorporate the four MCAs, had already complained that some people had voted for them, from the HANSARD, is that so?

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

Or they voted. From my end, I believe they voted.

No, what I am asking is that they had already complained before the voting, is that so?

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

Mr. Alfred Korir: No.

Services, Senate.

Mr. Katwa Kigen: As I close my cross-examination because of time, can you confirm as my learned friend, Mr. Kirui, took you through, we have the delivery of the laptops in which year?

September, 2024.

September, 2024 and there is a list of ID numbers. The ID numbers are usually used when you are either delivering things like laptops or paying the MCAs.

We use their IPPD numbers mostly as their primary.

Occasionally, you use ID numbers for laptops and other times, you use payroll numbers, is that so?

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

Yes, it is not only you.

Even the Human Resource (HR) has them.

Then even the HR could have voted from your system. Lastly, Mr. Bett--

I am Korir.

My apologies. I kept calling you Bett. I know we are smiling at each other, but the question I want to ask you is fairly nasty. The instructions I have is that you actually voted for the four MCAs. I put it to you that you voted for the four MCAs.

No, I did not.

Is it true that you come from Mulot?

Mr. Alfred Korir: No.

So, it is wrong for my client to refer to you as a Mulot boy?

Yes, it is.

That is not true?

That is not true.

Clearly, you are very eloquent, but you manipulated the data.

No, I did not.

I want to leave it at that. My learned friend has just one question, and then we will go.

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

Services, Senate.

Mr. Peter Wanyama: Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is extremely important for us. These IP addresses must be unique to each MCA because of the different gadgets they used. Is that correct?

So, in our---

Wait! Is that correct? They must be unique for each one. You sent a message to each one.

The message was within the same link.

So, this is the question; on page 30, the last end, there is an IP Address - Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is now where the fraud is - serial No.41. An MCA for Kedowa/Kimugul Ward voted ‘yes.’

Yes.

The IP address is 41, 139, 237, and 129. Is that correct?

Yes.

On page 31, that same IP address appears for MCA of Soliat Ward. Is that correct on line two?

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

It appears on line five for another MCA.

Yes. I can explain that.

Wait, you will explain to the Senators when they ask you; I just want to lay the basis. This IP address then appears nine times. Do you confirm that?

I confirm.

So, on the first of these logs, nine MCAs voted yes using one gadget?

Yes, we had a laptop in the chambers.

The evidence before the Senate is that only three MCAs were assisted. Do you know that?

Not a machine exactly, but---

Look at page 88 of volume two, paragraph eight in the affidavit of Martin Langat. How many MCAs in the Chambers were assisted to vote according to that affidavit?

We had two ICT officers in the Chambers.

I am asking; according to the affidavit before the Senate, how many MCAs?

Mr. Alfred Korir: Three.

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

Services, Senate.

Counsel for the County Assembly, any re- examination?

Mr. Elias Mutuma: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I will do the re-exam for the witness.

Alfred.

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

Mr. Alfred Korir: No.

Is that accusation backed by any evidence?

Yes, because once I log in, I log in as an administrator, and I was not within these IP addresses within the Assembly. The IP addresses for the Assembly---

No evidence.

Let me ask you a question as a layman. Is there a system on earth that does not have a system administrator?

Mr. Alfred Korir: No.

Does that include internet banking (IB)?

Internet banking---

Do we have a system administrator for that application? Is there always someone at the end who is doing the administration work?

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

Very true.

That is indeed standard, correct?

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

Does Kericho County Assembly have an ICT policy?

Yes, we have.

Has that policy been approved by the County Assembly Service Board?

Services, Senate.

Does that include procurement issues of the system?

Yes, it includes.

Did the development of this system comply with the ICT policy of Kericho County Assembly?

Yes, it did.

You confirmed that you were not in Chambers during the voting?

Yes, I was not in the Chambers.

So, if there was voting that took place in the Chambers, it cannot be from you? If we are able to tell that voting came from the chambers?

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

Volume 4A, page 31.

Volume 4A of the County Assembly's documents?

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

At which page?

Page 31.

Kindly take us to the first IP address.

Cheplanget, 41, 139, 237, 129, which is our static IP in the Chambers.

The second last.

So, the second last entry is an IP address?

A static IP address that is within our chamber.

So, that vote then must have been cast from Chambers, is that correct?

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

Were you in the chamber to cast that vote?

No, I was not.

Let us go to the end. Who then cast that vote? Are you able to tell the specific member who cast that vote?

From chambers?

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

Services, Senate.

Mr. Alfred Korir: On page 32, the first MCA from Kapkatet also used a router in our chambers, which is, 105. We are using the Safaricom fibre. We have the routers in the chambers to assist Members' access especially when we are running live broadcasts for the Facebook page and YouTube. That is why we have a static IP address, the one that does not change. We use that to avoid disruptions when there is a livestream.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: Again, you confirm that vote was cast from chambers?

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

And you were not in chambers?

Yes. That is page 32, the first one.

The first entry on page 32?

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

Which Member cast that vote?

Amos Birir.

From chambers?

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

Let us go to the third one.

The third one is within the chambers within the static IP.

Which specific MCA?

Martin Cheruiyot.

The second last entry on page 32?

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

Where was that vote cast from?

From the chambers.

From the chambers, which you were not in?

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

The last one for Edina?

I am trying to trace the one for Edina, since she is a nominated member. 19, 22, 27. It is through the Chambers, static---

Give us the entry number. What page?

Page 31. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7--- It is the 7th one. So, it is hon. Edina.

What entry number?

Entry number from the bottom is No.6 from the bottom.

Again, you confirm that that vote was cast from Chambers?

Yes, I do.

Thank you. Now, was the electronic voting done through the website so as to be affected by where the website is hosted?

Mr. Alfred Korir: No.

Could where the website is hosted affect the voting system?

It did not.

Services, Senate.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: Has any material been produced by the team for the Governor showing that there was a compromise from the host of the website?

Not in my knowledge.

You have been accused of not training Members of the County Assembly (MCAs) on the use of this system. Kindly confirm the other functions that are available in this system other than the electronic voting.

Multiple, since 2022.

Since 2022?

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

Yes, we have had some cases and we resolved the issues.

Indeed, this is the very system that is used to pay members’ per diems, correct?

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

No, we are using it in the Kericho County Assembly.

Are you aware if the county executive has their own internal systems?

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

They say they have a revenue collection system.

So, the revenue system of Kericho is internally developed?

They say so.

Is there anything wrong then for you to develop your own system?

Not at all.

Let me ask this question. In your own understanding as an Information Technology (IT) expert, does the revenue system that has been internally developed by Kericho Government have an administrator?

Services, Senate.

Yes, it does.

Does that administrator have the same user rights as you, as you interact with your system?

Yes, he must have.

This involves the entire revenue of Kericho County that is collected?

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

It is.

It is?

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

Where is that certificate contained?

Volume two, page 114.

Thank you. What was the specific mode that you used to copy and print the logs? How would you explain the fact that we had some logs that do not follow each other sequentially? Why would that be the case?

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

Mr. Alfred Korir: No.

Mr. Alfred Korir: No.

In regards to voting, no.

So, the only activity that is confirmed from the audits is activities that took place within the 11 minutes?

Services, Senate.

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

The Speaker.

It is the Speaker?

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

Before or after voting?

Any time, before and after. Could anyone access and vote?

They could not vote, but they would log in and the message would be voting has ended.

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

Before we created the Motion, there was nothing in the page.

There was nothing in the page?

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

Until the time the Motion has been created.

Thank you. You have been brought to the attention of two Members of the County Assembly. One, Hon. Paul Bii, who does not seem to have an Integrated Payroll and Personnel Database (IPPD) number. Kindly explain why that is the case.

What have you been using instead of his IPPD number?

His ID.

Has that been the case for all other functions than for voting purposes?

Mr. Alfred Korir: Yes.

Explain the discrepancy with

Even Dora was working with a Government institution, but the transfer of the file was not successful. We have not received her IPPD number linked to Kericho County Assembly.

Services, Senate.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: So, was there anything wrong for you to use her ID instead of an IPPD number as the user?

In that case, no.

Thank you. Lastly, Mr. Wanyama, yesterday, in front of this House, stated that he was able to vote after the system was closed. What would you say?

Could Mr. Wanyama then be able to vote?

At that time I had created a demonstration page which we wanted to come and use in case it was asked. I had indicated it was a demo page and used the credentials of two honourable Members because the information was with them. I had changed the log in details from the username and password.

It was a dummy page.

It had no effect whatsoever.

No effects on the vote whatsoever.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. That is all for this witness, unless the honourable Senators have any requests.

Hon. Senators, you may ask questions and seek clarifications either directly to the witness or to Counsel. You need to do that in under one or two minutes.

Sen. Veronica Maina: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Mr. Witness, I want you to go to pages 13 to 17 the one that has the system audit logs and the username you chose to apply together with password.

It is true that the username being the IPPD number together with the ID was information that was available to the secretary at the County Assembly.

Mr. Alfred Korir: True.

That means anybody would have accessed if they had that information, for example, from the finance department where payments are made.

Mr. Alfed Korir: They were not aware of the link that is sent to the Members and username they were using.

Mr. Alfred Korir: True.

That means anybody would have accessed if they had that information, for example, from the finance department where payments are made.

Mr. Alfed Korir: They were not aware of the link that is sent to the Members and username they were using.

I am asking you if that information was available and somebody had the link because the proceedings were public; everybody knew that Motion was happening, they could easily access.

Mr. Alfred Korir: That is true.

When did you create the electronic voting system? Mr. Alfred Korir: We started immediately when the Standing Orders were amended. We did not know when the Motion would come up, so we were not so fast in doing it---

Services, Senate.

Mr. Alfred Korir: We made it live two days before.

Services, Senate.

Mr. Alfred Korir: We made it live two days before.

Do you have an ICT policy in Kericho County? In your ICT policy, what process---

Proceed, Sen. Wambua.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I will ask my questions to the ICT expert.

First, I wish to know whether the IP address is assigned to a gadget or to an individual.

Mr. Alfred Korir: The IP address, the first two numbers such 105.106 is assigned to the network. The rest is attached to the gadget.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I asked that question because I also have some knowledge in IT. It is impossible to get more than one log in using the same credentials at the same time. If you have logged in using whatever password or address assigned, you have to log out and log in afresh.

Mr. Alfred Korir: That is true.

You cannot log in twice at the same time, yet I see on page 13 of volume 4A, there is a person there that has logged in twice at the same time, voted two seconds later and until this document was brought to us, that person is still logged in. They did not log out.

I want to understand from the IT expert how it is that some people logged in and logged out---

Proceed, Sen. Kathuri.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I have two issues. One is may be a comment on the application that was requested by the Governor’s Counsel, whether he should raise it now or later after we clear with the witness. If not, then I have a question to the witness.

He has alluded to the fact that this system was never tested before by the MCAs, yet we know not everyone is an ICT expert. It is now I am learning that Sen. Wambua has some knowledge in ICT; I thought he was just a journalist.

I am an environmentalist not an IT expert. I am asking the administrator of the system, why did you not test the system with your client, the MCAs, before you went to the vote? This is because for sure even though we have a system in this House, we did some orientation when the system was installed in both Houses of Parliament.

Why did you go that route? Did you install the system specifically for the Impeachment Motion? If you were not sure it would work or Members able to use it, why could you not go the manual way because Members were in the Chamber and they could have voted in a very verifiable manner?

Thirty-three people.

Okay.

Thirty-three people.

Services, Senate.

Services, Senate.

Thank you, Speaker, Sir. We also have our voting system, as the Deputy Speaker has said. We are 47 Senators just as you are in the County Assembly.

We take just about two minutes and everyone has voted. For you, it was five minutes, as you said. Your Standing Orders allow for five minutes, yet you tell us you had 11 minutes and 44 seconds. What was happening in between there? You also said you were camping in the system as its administrator. Is the system foolproof? Make me confident that there was nothing fishy within that period of time.

The Speaker (Hon. Kingi) Proceed, Sen. Kajwang.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, for the record, I am an IT expert with verifiable credentials and background.

My friend in the profession, there are four MCAs whom it is contested whether they voted or not. Three of them are Chepkirui Edina Tonui, Bosibet Kibet Hilary and Martin Kiplangat had the same IP on voting, which is 41139237129. Could you explain how that occurred?

If you are challenged to provide the MCA addresses of the devices they were using, are you able to provide that to differentiate the votes of the three?

Finally, I listened in amazement as the Counsel for the County Assembly said that they copied and pasted logs. In 2017, a similar matter came up before the Supreme Court. It was established that logs can only be verifiable if they are extracted in the presence of both parties. So, it is very difficult to admit logs that have been generated by one party, copied and pasted, and where Counsel even admits that there are errors as far as they are concerned. Is the County Assembly willing to extract the logs in the presence of the Governor and the presence of an independent witness provided by the Senate, as was established in 2017?

Thank you.

Sen. Cherarkey, please, proceed.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I am not an ICT expert, so I will ask basic questions; I am a lawyer.

Mr. Witness, and I request that you write this down, I have heard the assertion that some MCAs have ‘mulika mwizi’ phones. Are you able to send the voting SMS links to ‘mulika mwizi’ phones?

Number two, Standing Order No.77 was adopted and passed by the House in October, 2024. Does it mean that the County Assembly has an obligation to train the MCAs from Standing Order No.1, all the Standing Orders in the Standing Orders of Kericho County Assembly?

In addition, just for clarity, does it mean the IPPD and ID numbers that belong to MCAs are available to the public? Public, meaning, people who work outside. For example, are the Governor and the County Executive of Kericho aware of the IPPD and ID numbers of the MCAs within the County Assembly?

Finally, I have seen on volume one, page six, that there are some MCAs who did not take their phones into the Chamber. After the adoption of Standing Order No.77, were they aware that they were supposed to receive their SMS links on their phones?

I yield, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Services, Senate.

Services, Senate.

I just want clarification on page 31. Did you say that the IP address that looks similar, these MCAs voted from the same gadgets?

Mr. Alfred Korir: We have the static IP within the Chambers.

Did they use the same gadget, the same laptop, these three who were assisted?

Mr. Alfred Korir: With the static IP, it can allow multiple users to log in using that static---

The same gadget? Mr. Alfred Korir: Maybe the person who was inside the chambers can confirm how they voted.

Okay. If you were to assist one MCA, roughly how many minutes does it take; one who does not understand the system?

Mr. Alfred Korir: Like a minute.

Now, finally, there is one who was assisted at 19.22.27 seconds, and the next one was assisted at 19.22.33 seconds. Can you move from one MCA to another within five seconds? Excuse me, can you assist two MCAs within five seconds?

Mr. Alfred Korir: Kindly refer me to the volume, please.

I said on page 31, you assisted an MCA at 19.22.27 seconds, and the next one 19.22.33. That means the difference of five seconds.

Mr. Alfred Korir: That is the issue of the static IP. It can allow multiple devices to log in using the same IP.

Mr. Alfred Korir: Later.

That should be easy. Mr. Alfred Korir: The only clarification is that the use of static---

Mr. Alfred Korir: Later.

That should be easy. Mr. Alfred Korir: The only clarification is that the use of static---

Witness, let me make it easier. The Senator is referring to the assisted MCAs. If they are not assisted, then they can log in at the same time, because they are not assisted. However, these ones were being assisted. So, you assist one, you clear with one, then you go assist the other one. Now, his concern is the efficiency that was deployed in assisting.

Mr. Alfred Korir: We had two ICT officers within the Chambers. Also, we have the static IP. I think the issue came from the static IP that we are using in the Chambers.

Sen. Boni, please proceed.

Services, Senate. namely, to make it impossible for unauthorised persons to access the system. So, given that you honestly accepted that your system is not full-proof, do you still want the Senate to use your evidence to remove the Governor when it was porous? That is question number one.

The last question. Since you said you are the expert, who asked you to advise the County Assembly of Kericho to use a system which you, the expert, knew was porous?

Services, Senate. namely, to make it impossible for unauthorised persons to access the system. So, given that you honestly accepted that your system is not full-proof, do you still want the Senate to use your evidence to remove the Governor when it was porous? That is question number one.

The last question. Since you said you are the expert, who asked you to advise the County Assembly of Kericho to use a system which you, the expert, knew was porous?

Sen. Beatrice Akinyi, please, proceed.

Thank you, your Excellency, the Speaker. Other than policies of the Kericho County, e-voting systems must comply with other national existing legal and regulatory frameworks. Is there any, nationally, that you think you may not have complied with?

Sen. Thang’wa, please, proceed.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Yes, an assembly can indeed have a static IP address. That is the router. However, that router will give different IP addresses to all the gadgets. So, you cannot have the same IP address from each gadget. I am a verified IT expert.

My question is hypothetical. From the IT department of Kericho Assembly, can you recommend your system to the Independent Electoral and Boundaries Commission (IEBC) , so that probably they can use this system in the next general election? That is one.

Question two, we have seen that one IP address voted about nine times. My question is to the Counsel for the Governor. Are these nine people who are voted for the ones who have already done an affidavit to say they were voted for? Those are my questions. However, this is a classic case of a proxy voting system.

Thank you.

Sen. Mumma, please, proceed.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. To the witness, the matter before the Senate is for us to determine whether there was a valid vote taken in respect of the impeachment of the Governor and how many MCAs voted.

I would want you to indicate how many MCAs were present and how many voted. Can you confirm that nobody voted for any MCA? Is that evidence before us?

Sen. Kisang, proceed.

Order, Senator for Narok County.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I have two questions. One, who made the decision to use a system that had not been used before on a critical matter like this?

Secondly, as the County Assembly of Kericho, are you registered as data processor and data controller or not? Third, as IT experts, you and I--- I have 34 years of practice, did you send the IPPD numbers and ID numbers as bulk or you sent to each person individually? What was the use because I believe each MCA knows their IPPD numbers and IDs? Do you have a system also to regularly assist the MCAs to change their passwords?

Services, Senate.

Services, Senate.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Expert in the House, yesterday when you argued on the principles and requirements of a secure e-system, you argued that ID was the best to use for password generation, yet, we know that any member of the public's ID numbers are everywhere in the county documents. So, why was there no other or do you have any other way that you could have given password access, for instance, generation of OTP, so that it is a second layer verification?

Secondly, this was the first time you were adjusting the existing system to a voting system. Therefore, you said that you designed this system to meet that in the shortest time possible. In an event where Sen. Kajwang’ has asked to access the logs and the Governor decides to access the logs--- In an event where you cannot share that with us, can you share with us a rational, unified process, especially looking at the project duration and software increments that you did? Can you share with us that in this House or can you take us through your RUP process?

Sen. (Dr.) Lelegwe, proceed.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Alfred, I want to point you to page 12, where message confirmation report is contained on electronic voting link. In that page, I wanted you to confirm whether that link is manually or system generated.

Are you done, Senator?

Secondly, if it is system generated, why is entry No.13 a 25-digit number, while all others are 24-digit numbers?

Sen. Chute.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. To the witness, it is in your evidence that you said each member takes a minute. On pages 29 to 32, nine persons voted on the same IP address. It is also your evidence that there are two devices in the premises. So, the IP address is on a particular device.

My question is; unless you want us to remove the Governor on a flimsy excuse, why should you use the same IP address that takes one minute for each person? That is already nine minutes. How is it possible that these people took nine minutes to vote on the same IP address? Definitely, they used a system. Tell this honourable House, how it happened, that you used nine minutes for nine persons?

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I wanted to know from the witness, for how long have they been using the electronic voting system in the County Assembly of Kericho? That is point number one.

Secondly, I also wanted to know, in the event of system failure, which system have they kept in place to assist the MCAs of Kericho County to vote?

Thank you.

Services, Senate.

Services, Senate.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for this opportunity. My question to the witness is; I want to know if this Peter on page 15 of volume 4A and 16 and 17, who tried to log in so many times and the login failed, if he was ever assisted to vote.

I would also want to ask; this is a very heavy matter of impeachment. When we look at the system, it had problems. How come you continued with it and allowed MCAs to vote through the same system, where they had difficulties in voting for an impeachment? This is a heavy matter.

Sen. Wamatinga, proceed.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. My question goes to the IT expert. You know, in the age of cybersecurity, I waited for you to mention what kind of firewalls you had put to ensure that we do not have unlawful intrusion. If you did have such a firewall, would you kindly provide us with the logs that showed that there were people who attempted to log in and they were actually denied entry?

The second question is; why was it not easy for you to use randomly generated passwords instead of using designated passwords to the MCAs, which could be manipulated?

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Sen. Shakila.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It is unfortunate today we are doing the work of the MCAs on how they voted, whether they voted or not, which is not our work as a Senate. We can as well call those the MCAs to come and vote here, to establish the truth of the matter. It is because it seems now that doubt is how they voted, who voted, who did not vote and how many times; which is not our work.

When the Governor is brought here, we are here to look at the issues and impeach the Governor or we save him. However, we are now doing the work of the MCAs. That is not the work of this House. It is very unfortunate. We either bring those MCAs here to vote before the eyes of the Senators, to establish the truth of the matter and close this case once and for all.

An. Hon. Senator: There was no question.

Services, Senate.

Services, Senate.

Proceed, Sen. Murango.

Bw. Spika, swali nililotaka kuuliza limeulizwa na Sen. Wakoli.

Please, take your seat. Proceed, Sen. Methu.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to confirm from the witness on the stand who took an oath. There are so many documents here and the witness on the stand has sworn with the Bible.

Mr. Witness, just a confirmation, is it your position before God and before this Senate that indeed 33 or 28 MCAs voted? That is my first concern.

Secondly, do you know the implication of the oath that you have taken before this House if it is later found out, because that can be established, that it is not 33, but 28 MCAs who voted? Do you know the implication of the oath that you have taken as a witness before this House?

Proceed, Sen. Abass.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Go to page 12 of volume 2A. I am looking at the bulk Short Message Service (SMS) that was sent. That is 28 out of 47. Why did the witness send to 28 only and not all the 47?

Secondly, you have 47 MCAs. I want to believe they were all in the Assembly at that time. Where are those who abstained and those who voted against?

Next is Sen. Olekina.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, let me get some clarification in terms of the IP address. I was listening to the Counsel for the Governor cross-examining the witness who referred to the IP address. The first question that was asked, which I would like clarity on, is whether or not one or two devices can use the same IP address.

The second question goes to the witness. I would like to know whether there is a Wi-Fi router at Kericho County Assembly or all MCAs vote using their unique phone numbers. Clarify whether there is one Wi-Fi router that produces one static IP address that is shared amongst several devices, or whether each of the MCAs use their own phones to vote.

Finally, I would like to know whether the device that was used based on the IP addresses listed on pages 29, 30 and 31, the one that you allege were assisted voters--- I would like to know whether the laptop that was used during voting shared the same IP address, or was it the same router or Wi-Fi because I heard you saying that you get fiber from Safaricom?

I thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Services, Senate. Secondly, Members use either laptops or their phones to vote. We have a laptop in the Chamber for voting.

Regarding the question on implication of the oath by Sen. Methu, I know the implications. About the number of MCAs who voted, as the administrator, 33 votes were cast. Since four have contested the vote, I cannot confirm the authenticity as an expert since I was not in the Chamber. When Members take the stand, they will confirm whether they voted or somebody voted on their behalf.

Services, Senate. Secondly, Members use either laptops or their phones to vote. We have a laptop in the Chamber for voting.

Regarding the question on implication of the oath by Sen. Methu, I know the implications. About the number of MCAs who voted, as the administrator, 33 votes were cast. Since four have contested the vote, I cannot confirm the authenticity as an expert since I was not in the Chamber. When Members take the stand, they will confirm whether they voted or somebody voted on their behalf.

Mr. Witness, is it possible to mention the name of the Senator who asked the question you are responding to?

Mr. Alfred Korir: I did not note the names of Senators. Therefore, I will just answer them.

Regarding the question on password and why I used the IDs, that was the easiest way for MCAs of Kericho County Assembly to remember because of the timeline of five minutes. I have realised the Senate has a voting system that takes a minute because of electronic voting machines. Should they have had electronic voting machines, it could have been faster. We wanted the easiest way for them to log in and cast their votes within the shortest time possible.

On the question on alternative voting when electronic system fails, that is provided in the Standing Orders. They could have reverted to roll call voting, but at that time, there was no indication that there was an error or problem with the votes since it recorded 33 votes. Other Members who had not voted remained pending. That means they did not trigger the voting button. That is why on the dashboard, it shows “00” because they did not log in to either abstain or vote ‘no.’

I think I can answer those ones. I have not chosen what to answer. On the decision to use data processor or data experts, I think I did not get that question correctly.

Services, Senate. confirm three of them are there. The first one is on page 31, an MCA marked as 20220296111, nominated, that is Hon. Edina Chepkemoi.

We are looking at volume two, page 31 and I am looking at the column marked “MCAs.” Sorry, Volume 4A. Well, let me use the column of ward page 31 of volume 4A. There is an MCA for Kipkelion Ward and then below that is a nominated MCA, Hon. Edina Chepkemoi, who was voted for and her affidavit is on page 128 in Volume 1 of the Governor's Bundle.

Services, Senate. confirm three of them are there. The first one is on page 31, an MCA marked as 20220296111, nominated, that is Hon. Edina Chepkemoi.

We are looking at volume two, page 31 and I am looking at the column marked “MCAs.” Sorry, Volume 4A. Well, let me use the column of ward page 31 of volume 4A. There is an MCA for Kipkelion Ward and then below that is a nominated MCA, Hon. Edina Chepkemoi, who was voted for and her affidavit is on page 128 in Volume 1 of the Governor's Bundle.

Well, I was of the impression that the main witness will maybe take time to respond to the many queries, but I am told that he opted to leave it at that. Okay. Were there any queries directed to any other party than the witness, so that we proceed?

Okay. Now, hon. Senators, before---

Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Please, proceed.

Mr. Katwa Kigen: Okay.

What is your point of order?

Mr. Katwa Kigen: Okay.

What is your point of order?

Services, Senate. decision tomorrow, whether there was threshold in the County Assembly, we really need an expert to assist us to verify the information that has been brought to this House.

The side of the County Assembly, they are defending that the voting was right and the Governor’s side, they are also defending their goal that the voting did not go on well.

The Senate leadership should be assisted. During this application, I am not here to assist either side, but for the benefit of the Senate of the Republic of Kenya because tomorrow we will be making a very critical decision whether to allow the impeachment process to proceed; to vote for the impeachment charges or not.

We have the ICT Authority which has very informed experts. We can get someone who can look at all these ID numbers, IPPD addresses and all these credentials, so that as we make our decision, we can make an informed decision. Therefore, if we can get a neutral expert, then we can be better placed.

Services, Senate. decision tomorrow, whether there was threshold in the County Assembly, we really need an expert to assist us to verify the information that has been brought to this House.

The side of the County Assembly, they are defending that the voting was right and the Governor’s side, they are also defending their goal that the voting did not go on well.

The Senate leadership should be assisted. During this application, I am not here to assist either side, but for the benefit of the Senate of the Republic of Kenya because tomorrow we will be making a very critical decision whether to allow the impeachment process to proceed; to vote for the impeachment charges or not.

We have the ICT Authority which has very informed experts. We can get someone who can look at all these ID numbers, IPPD addresses and all these credentials, so that as we make our decision, we can make an informed decision. Therefore, if we can get a neutral expert, then we can be better placed.

Thank you. Now, hon. Senators, this is my ruling on the request made by the counsel for the Governor and also to address the concerns raised by Sen. M. Kajwang’ and also the Senator for Meru County.

Services, Senate.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I thank you for that indulgence. My mind is telling me there is something that the parties might lose if we only receive a written

Services, Senate. response to the issues you have raised. It might offer them a better opportunity if we allow that expert takes the witness stand. Besides responding to the five issues you have raised, the parties should be given an opportunity to interrogate him further. I believe if we do so, it would be better and great.

(Applause)

Services, Senate. response to the issues you have raised. It might offer them a better opportunity if we allow that expert takes the witness stand. Besides responding to the five issues you have raised, the parties should be given an opportunity to interrogate him further. I believe if we do so, it would be better and great.

(Applause)

The only person who can table this is the one who would have prepared it. He can only do so when he takes the oath, tables this and takes us through it. If you need to get any clarification from the experts, you certainly will be at liberty to do so.

Thank you.

Next witness.

Mr. Elisha Ongoya: Mr. Speaker, Sir, before the next witness comes, may I request that you direct the Governor's side to give us a copy of their expert affidavit and report? We do not have it.

One was transmitted to you via email, but you can be served with a hard copy right now. You may proceed to exchange documents.

Let us hear the next witness.

Yes, Counsel for the Governor. Mr. Katwa Kigen: Mr. Speaker, Sir, I was requesting if the hard copies of the said report can be given out to Hon. Senators.

Absolutely. Mr. Katwa Kigen: Thank you very much.

Now, Counsel for the County Assembly, you have 57 minutes and I note here you still have six more witnesses to call. So, apportion your time accordingly.

(The witness for Kericho County Assembly

Mr. Elisha Ongoya: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. We now wish to move to the next limb of the impeachment Motion, which will be about the alleged theft of public funds. Tell the Senate your full name.

Services, Senate.

Mr. Elisha Ongoya: Where do you live?

Services, Senate.

Mr. Elisha Ongoya: Where do you live?

I live in Kericho, a place called Kaitui in Soin Sigowet Sub-County.

Mr. Elisha Ongoya: What do you do for a living?

I am a Member of Kericho County Assembly representing Soliat Ward.

Mr. Elisha Ongoya: I understand that you are an elected Member of Kericho County Assembly?

Yes, I am an elected Member. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: What other roles do you discharge officially within Kericho County Assembly?

At the Kericho County Assembly, I am the Chair of the Budget Appropriation Committee.

Mr. Elisha Ongoya: Is there any other Committee you may have chaired or been a member of in that County Assembly?

Last month, July, through an establishment of the Assembly, I was given a responsibility to chair an Ad Hoc Committee on Fictitious Payments.

Mr. Elisha Ongoya: I did not get the right name of ad hoc Committee?

Ad Hoc Committee on Fictitious Payments. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: Thank you so much. We wish to now move to that committee on fictitious payment. Did that committee do its work as established?

Yes, we were given a mandate and that mandate is in my affidavit, paragraph 8. The first thing that we did ---

Mr. Elisha Ongoya: Allow me to put the question. So, let me take you a step further and ask this question as follows. Have you presented an affidavit before the Senate?

Yes, it is in my --- it is in volume two. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: Are you able to give us the page? Is that the affidavit at pages 51 to 78 of volume two?

Yes. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: Do you stand by the contents of the affidavit on pages 51 to 78 of volume two?

Yes, I stand. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: Allow me then to briefly move to the mandate of that committee. What made that committee to be established as an ad hoc committee?

Okay, on 10th July, 2025, His Excellency Deputy Governor Fred Kirui wrote a letter to the Assembly on issues on financial impropriety. That is what made the County Assembly to establish an ad hoc committee.

Mr. Elisha Ongoya: Thank you so much. Let us go to how you discharged your mandate as a committee. How did you get or take evidence as a committee?

Services, Senate.

Services, Senate.

Okay. The first person was Deputy Governor. The invitation letter is in volume four, page 221. The second person was CEC Finance, Jackson Rop. It is also in volume four, page 222. The third person was Gillian Soy, Director of Procurement. The fourth person was Betsy Chebet, Chief Officer, Agriculture. The invitation letter is in volume four, page 230 and page 231, because there were two chief officers.

Another invitee was Jacqueline Langat. Her invitation letter is in volume four, page 227. The next person was Quantity Surveyor (QS) Anderson Terer, Chief Officer, Public works, Roads and Transport. The invitation letter is also in volume four, page 229. Then we had Kiplangat Richard Mitei, CO, Water. The invitation letter is also in volume four, page 228. The other witness was Dr. Japheth Cheruiyot, CO Health Services. It is also in volume four, page 225. Then CPA Kenneth Omundi and the last person was Richard Tonui, Chief Officer Education. The invitation letter is also in volume four, page

Okay, it is in paragraph 11. That is procurement plans, payment vouchers, local service orders, delivery notes, requisitions and other relevant documents.

Mr. Elisha Ongoya: So essentially, they gave you accounting documents for the County Government of Kericho?

Yes. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: Did this committee complete its work and produce a report?

Yes, we produced a report. That report is in volume 4A, page 108 to page 190.

Mr. Elisha Ongoya: Thank you. Generally, what departments in the County Government of Kericho were of concern from the findings of that report?

There were six departments. The first one is land and fiscal planning departments.

Mr. Elisha Ongoya: So, let us go step by step. That department of lands, what were the key issues from your committee findings?

The key issue is that there was a proposed repairs, decoration and re-roofing works that was done in Kipkelion, and they paid without completing the works. That was the first one.

The second one in the department of lands was public participation. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: What was the issue about public participation?

They also paid and they did not do the works. Thank you. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: The second department?

Roads. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: What were the key issues in the department of roads generally?

Services, Senate.

Services, Senate.

Agriculture. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: What were the key issues in agriculture?

It is expected that works of more than Kshs5 million should be subjected to opening tendering. Unfortunately, what the department did was to make sure that they procure works of less than Kshs3 million, so that it fits requests for quotations.

Mr. Elisha Ongoya: The next department?

The next department is water. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: What were the key issues in water?

They over-procured. Money that was budgeted was only Kshs1 million, but they procured works of more than Kshs3 million.

Mr. Elisha Ongoya: They procured goods and services beyond the budget?

Yes. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: The next department?

The next department is health. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: What was the issue in health?

The issue in health is that they paid equipment that was not supplied to hospitals.

Mr. Elisha Ongoya: What was the next department?

The next department is the department of finance. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: What were the key issues in finance?

The key issues in finance were that there were no documents.

Mr. Elisha Ongoya: No documents to support or to do what?

Yes, to support payment. I can take hon. Members to page 74, whereby there is a table there, for example, Fringe Focus Ltd---

Mr. Elisha Ongoya: That is enough. I will come to the specifics in a short while, because I can see time is running and we need to manage it properly. Allow us to sample some of these matters.

At this juncture, I will be asking the ICT team to put for us on the screen the image in volume 6A on page 16. The image in volume 6A on page 16. As they do so, allow me to draw your attention---

The image in volume 6A of the County Assembly's document is a thin volume, very thin, on page 16. As the ICT team is putting up, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, you may direct them so that we see it up. I will be going to the next question that we have on time.

So, to be sequential, let us begin dealing with the department of lands; in particular, the Kipkelion houses issue. I want you to look at volume 4, witness, on page 87 and answer the following question. What document is at Volume 4, page 87? What is the project in respect that voucher is generated?

Services, Senate.

Services, Senate.

It is Kshs2,999,000. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: Was that payment made before or after the commencement of the work of your ad hoc committee?

Before. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: Look at the screens in the House. Did you visit the site of that project?

Yes, we visited the site on the 30th July. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: No, give us the full date. 30th of July, which year?

2025. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: Is that image a correct representation of the houses you saw in Kipkelion on 30th of July, 2025?

Yes. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: Please, wait for me to finish, then you answer for the HANSARD. Is that image the correct representation of the house you found on 30th July, 2025?

Yes, it is the correct. We took those photos as a committee.

Mr. Elisha Ongoya: Let us now go to page 129 of volume 4. What document do you see on that page?

A contract. Oh, a BQ, sorry. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: Just repeat, what document do you see on page 129 of Volume 4?

A Bill of Quantities (BQ) . Mr. Elisha Ongoya: The BQ in respect of which project?

Proposed repairs and redecorations to council houses, the 15 in number. It was signed by county quantity surveyor on the 5th of September, 2024.

Mr. Elisha Ongoya: Is the house we are seeing on that screen, the ICT may have to leave the screen on, I do not know why it is going into sleeping mode. Thank you. Is the house we are seeing on that screen, the subject matter of that BQ?

Yes. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: Let us pick one item because time is running. The roofing element in the BQ. What does the BQ prescribe to be done on the roofing?

The BQ says that it allows for the careful removal of the asbestos roof.

Mr. Elisha Ongoya: Let us look at the screen. Is the asbestos roof removed?

No. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: Proceed.

It also says it be cart away as directed by the project manager.

Mr. Elisha Ongoya: Is that element of the BQ undertaken from what you are seeing on the screen?

No. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: Next.

Services, Senate.

Mr. Elisha Ongoya: Was that done?

Services, Senate.

Mr. Elisha Ongoya: Was that done?

No. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: Next.

Supply and fix pre-painted resin coat 115 profile sheet gauge.

Mr. Elisha Ongoya: Those are resin coat iron sheets?

Yes. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: Is that work undertaken?

No. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: Anything else?

Another one is allow for the production of facial board to the pitch board roof as directed by the project manager.

Mr. Elisha Ongoya: I will stop there because time is running. What is the payment status in respect of this project?

It was paid. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: How much money was paid?

A sum of Kshs2,999,000.

The interim payment certificate is there. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: Who prepared that interim payment certificate?

The county quantity surveyor.

On 22nd February, 2025.

No, they are not within Kericho Municipality. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: What is the recommended figure to be paid in that interim certificate?

It is Kshs2,699,100. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: You may look back at the voucher that we looked at earlier on page 87. How much money is being paid according to that voucher?

Kshs2,999,000. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: Let us pick some other element because this is the sample we are going to do for the Department of Lands and look at volume four, page 92. What document do you see there?

A Local Supply Order (LSO) . Mr. Elisha Ongoya: When is that LSO generated on the face of it?

On 20th February, 2025.

Services, Senate.

Services, Senate.

On 6th February, 2025.

A LSO is issued first before the billing because billing is invoicing.

Mr. Elisha Ongoya: That is the practice?

Yes. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: In those documents, which one was issued earlier?

The invoice. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: The invoice was issued before?

Before the LSO. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: What do you make of that aspect of your evidence?

On this one, they were forging documents so that they will can pay. It was falsification of documents.

Mr. Elisha Ongoya: Allow me to move to the second element from the Department of Lands in the Ministry of Housing on the Chelimo Settlement Scheme.

As I begin putting these questions, I request the ICT to put on the board the image at volume 6A, page 11.

Witness, look at volume four on your end, page 38. What do you see there?

The payment voucher. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: What is being paid for?

Provision of catering services.

Kshs2,985,000. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: For catering services?

Yes. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: Look at volume 4B, on page 445. What do you see on that page?

A budget for the County Government of Kericho Budget Estimates for the financial year 2024/2025, Lands Housing and Physical Planning.

Mr. Elisha Ongoya: That is the budget for 2024/2025, the Department of Lands.

Yes. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: That is the Department from which the voucher we have looked at earlier relates?

Yes. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: What was the budget for catering? Find it as the fifth item counting from below in that budget line.

Kshs1,000,500. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: The budget for that item is Kshs1,000,500. How much money is the voucher paying?

Kshs2,985,000. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: Is that payment within the budget?

Services, Senate.

Mr. Elisha Ongoya: Let us look at volume 4 - the first volume that you are looking at on page 41. What document do you see there?

Services, Senate.

Mr. Elisha Ongoya: Let us look at volume 4 - the first volume that you are looking at on page 41. What document do you see there?

An invoice. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: To what transaction or event does that invoice relate?

To Chelimo. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: The same transaction we are looking at in this line of questions?

Yes, with a figure of Kshs2,985,000. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: That is the invoice?

Yes. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: When is that invoice dated?

10th December, 2024. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: Now go to page 40. What document do you see there?

An LSO. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: A Local Supply Order.

Yes. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: In accounting terms, this is the document giving the contract?

Yes. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: When is it dated?

It was generated on 20th February, 2025. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: Sorry, let us go step by step. When was it generated?

It was generated on 20th February, 2025. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: Before or after the invoice is issued?

After the invoice. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: The invoice comes first then the contractual document, the LSO, follows. Is that what you are observing from these documents from Kericho County?

Yes, that is what I am observing.

Mr. Elisha Ongoya: I need to confirm what you are narrating. So, it was generated on 20th February. When was it printed?

On 25th February. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: You are looking at the far right-hand corner?

Yes. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: 25th February, 2025. When is it signed by hand?

21st February, 2025. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: It is signed by hand in advance of printing?

From the document, it was signed before printing. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: Yes. In this transaction, between billing the county and contracting, which one came first from those documents?

Billing came first. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: The County was billed first, then contracted later?

Services, Senate.

Services, Senate.

Our observation was that they were trying to do forgery. As you can see, they were in a hurry to make sure that they prepared documents for payment.

Mr. Elisha Ongoya: I had requested for Volume 6A, page 11, to be on the screen. Kindly, if it can be returned, I will run through them fast in the interest of time.

Let us turn to page 13. We are observing as we go. What are we seeing in that image?

Members of the public.

It is there; hire of 100-seater tents. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: How many?

Five. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: Five hundred-seater tents.

Yes. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: Is there an element of a red carpet being billed for?

Yes, there is one red carpet hire 10 meters square. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: Is there an element of dressed chairs being billed for?

Yes, 30 of them. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: Are you seeing any of those elements in the images I have so far showed the Senators.

No, it is not there. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: Let us move to the next image, page 14. Are you able to see something in the background there? A motor vehicle in that image par chance?

Yes, a motor vehicle is there. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: What is it carrying?

Two speakers. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: According to the invoice at page 41 how much is being billed for the public address system?

One day, 6th December, 2024. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: Let us look at some Volume 4, page 77.

There is requisition for public participation at Chilima, internal memo.

Mr. Elisha Ongoya: How much money is in that requisition?

A figure of Kshs2,987,500.

Yes. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: For how many days was the requisition made?

Services, Senate.

Services, Senate.

One day. The public participation was expected to be carried out from 18th November, 2024, as per that requisition.

Mr. Elisha Ongoya: When did the invoice say it was done?

The invoice is on page 40. It was only for one day and the date is 6th December, 2024.

Mr. Elisha Ongoya: Thank you. Allow me - in the interest of time - to sample the Department of Roads. For starters, I would want you to look at Volume 4B, page 343.

What transaction do you see on that page?

It is an internal memo a report on inspection and acceptance for construction of Lelsotet Bridge.

Mr. Elisha Ongoya: It is an internal memo by the Inspection and Acceptance Committee. What is the important of that document and government finance?

It will enable the department to prepare payment certificates.

Mr. Elisha Ongoya: When is that memo dated? That date is very crucial.

Mrs. Leah Chirchir, Chief Officer (CO) , Public Works and Transport.

Mr. Elisha Ongoya: Was Mrs. Leah Chirchir the Chief Officer of that department at that time in history?

No. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: Do you know Leah Chirchir?

Yes, I know her. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: When did she stop serving as Chief Officer of that department?

2022. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: 2022, following the general election?

Yes. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: Look at page 348 of volume 4B. What document is there?

Internal memo also from the appointment to the inspection and acceptance committee.

Mr. Elisha Ongoya: Under whose name is that memo signed?

Mrs. Leah Chirchir. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: When is that memo dated?

It is dated 20th September, 2024. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: 20th September, 2024, the department is generating memos in the name of Leah Chirchir? Is the CEO in that department at that time?

As we speak, she is not the CEO. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: Was she the CEO at that time?

20th September, 2024? Mr. Elisha Ongoya: Yes.

Services, Senate.

Services, Senate.

Yes, she was working from 2017 to 2022 as a CEO. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: In 2024, was she working there?

No. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: She had left the whole Kericho Government structure?

Yes. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: What do you make of those observations?

These are a falsification of documents. They are trying to create a lot of false issues for the purpose of payment.

Mr. Elisha Ongoya: Looking at the time, we will now summarize for the Senators where your observations are found for the rest of the transactions in your documents. Draw the Senator's attention to Volume 2, which is where your affidavit is found on page 63. Then turn over to page 64 and tell them what that table represents.

Hon. Speaker and hon. Senators, I prepared this table to show the double payments.

Mr. Elisha Ongoya: The double payments for?

For the Roads Department.

Mostly maintenance of roads and also bridges; box culverts.

Mr. Elisha Ongoya: I want you to look at the second last column.

The second last column is the first payments. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: Of what?

Of retentions. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: What about the second column?

The second payment for the same project, and it is also a retention of the same amounts.

Mr. Elisha Ongoya: My apologies, Volume 2, page 64.

Sorry, Counsel. What is it, Sen. Onyonka?

Could you, please, give us the page reference because you are so fast. I know you are fighting time.

Mr. Elisha Ongoya: I am wrestling time. Thank you so much, Senator. We are looking at the table in volume two. The table starts on page 64. Just so that we do not miss the point, what do you say this table represents?

It represents a double payment of retention fees. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: Where did you get this data from?

From the retention register.

RTGS that shows payments.

Services, Senate.

Services, Senate.

Exactly. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: Thank you. In the interest of time, explain to the Senator what the table found on volume two, page 68 represents.

Okay, on page 68, these are the companies that were fully paid and later on they were also paid retentions.

Mr. Elisha Ongoya: Just in a half a minute, tell us what you mean by fully paid, then finally paid retentions?

When they were paying for these contracts, they paid without retaining the retention money.

Mr. Elisha Ongoya: So, the original payment is without retention?

Yes. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: Then, subsequently, also see retentions being paid?

Yes. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: Then, very fast, let us move to the table on page 74 of volume two. What does that table represent?

It represents tender irregularities in the Department of Finance and Economic Planning. These are supplies that were made without documents. For example, this Finch Focus Limited were supplying and delivering stationery. There was no professional opinion, no tender award letter was provided, no tender opening and evaluation minutes and no inventory in the form of letters; that is, S11 or S13.

Mr. Elisha Ongoya: In a nutshell, what are you telling the Senators at paragraph 25 on page 77 of volume two regarding the Health Services Department.

Which paragraph? Mr. Elisha Ongoya: Paragraph 25, page 77.

Okay. In that paragraph, the Department of Health contacted two companies to supply medical equipment at a total cost of Kshs4 million. One of them is Afroscape Limited at a cost, which I would request Hon. Members to look at, Volume 4D, page 84 and also Volume 4D, page 146, whereby they split the contract.

Mr. Elisha Ongoya: They split the contract to bring it within the permissible limits for requests for quotations. In a summary, what was your quarrel with the Department of Water, Energy and Environment?

In the Department of Water, they contracted Roly Ventures Limited at the cost of Kshs2.7 million to supply office furniture. Unfortunately, there was no budget.

Mr. Elisha Ongoya: What was the budget line for that item?

It was Kshs1 million.

A sum of Kshs2.7 million. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: It was Kshs2.7 million. Are these the positions in your affidavit true representation of what your committee actually established by looking at the documents?

Yes. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: Are those documents before these Senators in full?

Services, Senate.

Mr. Elisha Ongoya: Are you adopting the contents of those documents as your evidence?

Services, Senate.

Mr. Elisha Ongoya: Are you adopting the contents of those documents as your evidence?

Yes, I adopt. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: The Governor, then, says you never gave him time to implement these findings. What do you say to that to the Senators?

When Governor sees those things happening in his government, he is supposed to have acted on it. For example, whistle blower said on 10th June, 2025 that there was fictitious payment. So, he was supposed to act or to look at all the affected departments so that he sees if these things are real or not, instead of waiting for the Assembly.

Mr. Elisha Ongoya: You are saying the alarm bell was by a whistle blower way back in June?

In July. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: In July?

Yes. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: The Governor took no action.

Yes. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: As we stand before this Senate, do you know of any action the Governor has taken in respect of these transactions?

So far, no. He has taken none. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: Mr. Speaker, in the interest of time, I can see my time is far much spent. We have another witness. I will rest these witness’ testimony at that.

Thank you.

That is okay. Serjeant-at-Arms, save some minutes. Bring the next witness. We are balancing off the time. Counsel for the Governor, you can go ahead with cross-examination.

Mr. Katwa Kigen: Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, and Hon. Senators. Good afternoon, Mr. Kipkoech.

Good afternoon. Mr. Katwa Kigen: Yes. Now, I want to start from the last answer you gave. You said that the alarm was raised in July---

Counsel, you have 18 minutes in total for cross-examination.

Mr. Katwa Kigen: Yes, Mr. speaker, Sir. Thank you. You said the alarm was raised in July?

Yes. 10th July, 2025.

I cannot confirm that. Mr. Katwa Kigen: You do not know when the Motion was moved---

The only person who can confirm, that is, the mover of the Motion.

Mr. Katwa Kigen: May I ask you, Mr. Kipkoech, you were not in the Assembly when the Motion was being moved for his impeachment?

Services, Senate.

Mr. Katwa Kigen: Did you participate in those proceedings?

Services, Senate.

Mr. Katwa Kigen: Did you participate in those proceedings?

In voting? Yes, I participated on 15th. Mr. Katwa Kigen: On 15th?

Yes. So, if it is the issue of date 15th I will answer. Mr. Katwa Kigen: Okay. That is okay. You do not recall that the Motion was moved on 6th August. You do not remember that?

I will leave that to the mover of the Motion. Mr. Katwa Kigen: You do not recall or you do?

Of course, I recall, but I will leave it to the mover of the Motion.

Mr. Katwa Kigen: As you have said, the alarm was raised on 25th and the Motion was moved on 6th of August. That is about 10 days, is it not?

Which alarm are you talking about? Mr. Katwa Kigen: The Motion for Impeachment was on 6th of August. You said the alarm was raised on 25th of July, is it not so?

The alarm on fictitious payment. Just ask me about issues of fictitious payment. The whistle blow was on 10th July, 2025.

Mr. Katwa Kigen: Who is asking the questions? I am asking you again. Your point, through your Counsel, was that the Governor had time to act, is it not so? That was your point.

Yes. Mr. Katwa Kigen: It is because he heard the alarm on 25th of July, is it not so? That was your point, is it not so?

The alarm--- Mr. Katwa Kigen: Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am really struggling with time. The witness should just answer without being obstinate.

You should answer either ‘yes’ or ‘no.’ Mr. Katwa Kigen: Did you say the Governor had time to act?

Mr. Katwa Kigen: Of?

July. Mr. Katwa Kigen: As at 6th of August when the Motion for his impeachment was being moved, that was about 20 days, is it not so?

Mr. Katwa Kigen: Of?

July. Mr. Katwa Kigen: As at 6th of August when the Motion for his impeachment was being moved, that was about 20 days, is it not so?

Basically, about 25 days.

Yes. Mr. Katwa Kigen: Okay. Now, I want to move to a different issue. Were the other reports sent to the Governor?

Yes, they were sent to the Governor. Mr. Katwa Kigen: Were they sent before the Motion to impeach him or after?

Services, Senate.

Services, Senate.

5th of August. Mr. Katwa Kigen: Just a day before the Motion for impeachment, is it not so? The Deputy Speaker has told you to answer the questions. If you do not know, just say so. They were sent a day before the impeachment, is it not so?

Yes, a day before the impeachment. Mr. Katwa Kigen: That one day was enough for him to act?

He had enough time from 10th. Mr. Katwa Kigen: Let me ask you a different question. On 10th of July when you said the alarm was raised, do you have any document showing that indeed a communication raising the alarm was made?

Mr. Katwa Kigen: Okay.

Yes. Mr. Katwa Kigen: By the time the Motion was being moved on 6th of August, that time had not expired, is it not so?

Mr. Katwa Kigen: Okay.

Yes. Mr. Katwa Kigen: By the time the Motion was being moved on 6th of August, that time had not expired, is it not so?

It had not expired. Mr. Katwa Kigen: Thank you very much. According to your paragraph three, the whistleblower is the Deputy Governor, is it not so?

Yes. Mr. Katwa Kigen: That Deputy Governor deputises the Governor, is it not so?

Mr. Katwa Kigen: Inversely---

Just a minute, Counsel. The House is supposed to rise at 1.00 p.m. However, I will invoke Standing Order No.34 (2A) to extend for 15 more minutes, so that you conclude your cross-examination.

Mr. Katwa Kigen: Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. The whistleblower was the Deputy Governor and you confirm that you have not moved a Motion to impeach him?

Mr. Katwa Kigen: Inversely---

Just a minute, Counsel. The House is supposed to rise at 1.00 p.m. However, I will invoke Standing Order No.34 (2A) to extend for 15 more minutes, so that you conclude your cross-examination.

Mr. Katwa Kigen: Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. The whistleblower was the Deputy Governor and you confirm that you have not moved a Motion to impeach him?

Mr. Katwa Kigen: Okay.

Of course, yes.

Mr. Katwa Kigen: Okay.

Services, Senate.

You have taken us through some issues and I will summarise what you have raised. You have raised issues of contracts on works and goods, improprieties in procurement, including splitting contracts and payment of money. Those are the issues you have raised, is it not so?

Yes. Mr. Katwa Kigen: When you were presiding over this committee on fictitious payments, did you find anywhere where the Governor signed any of the contracts that you are dealing with?

Mr. Katwa Kigen: Procurement?

It cannot happen in all the departments. Mr. Katwa Kigen: Please, answer my questions because I am the one asking you. Is there anywhere he was involved in procurement such as advertising?

Mr. Katwa Kigen: Procurement?

It cannot happen in all the departments. Mr. Katwa Kigen: Please, answer my questions because I am the one asking you. Is there anywhere he was involved in procurement such as advertising?

No. Mr. Katwa Kigen: Is there anywhere where he was involved in splitting contracts?

But Counsel--- Mr. Katwa Kigen: Please, answer my question. Did you find him anywhere---

It can happen in all the departments. Mr. Katwa Kigen: Witness, please, answer my question.

He is either incompetent or he is complicit.

Mr. Witness, please, stop that exchange. Just answer questions as you have been asked.

Okay. Mr. Katwa Kigen: Did you find him involved anywhere splitting contracts?

No. Mr. Katwa Kigen: Did you find him anywhere going to the bank to withdraw money or signing?

No. Mr. Katwa Kigen: Now, in your committee, you said some people appeared before you, is it not?

Yes. Mr. Katwa Kigen: Some of those people in your report, you subsequently recommended action against them, is it not?

Yes. Mr. Katwa Kigen: Now, as you speak today, you are coming to support an action against the governor, is it not?

Yes. Mr. Katwa Kigen: Now, prior to taking action against the Governor, have you taken any action against those people who you found culpable directly?

Services, Senate.

Mr. Katwa Kigen: Please, answer my question. Have you taken an action against any of the people you very specifically placed your finger on and said this one is responsible for splitting tenders, this one was responsible for procuring beyond the budget and this one was responsible for---

Services, Senate.

Mr. Katwa Kigen: Please, answer my question. Have you taken an action against any of the people you very specifically placed your finger on and said this one is responsible for splitting tenders, this one was responsible for procuring beyond the budget and this one was responsible for---

Yes, we recommended. Mr. Katwa Kigen: You have made recommendations.

Yes, sir. Mr. Katwa Kigen: You have not taken any action.

Of course, we do not have that mandate. Mr. Katwa Kigen: You do not have that mandate.

Yes. Mr. Katwa Kigen: Is it not that true that the County Governments Act gives you powers to act on CECMs?

Yes. Mr. Katwa Kigen: Have you acted on any of them?

But in this case, most of them were Chief Officers. Mr. Katwa Kigen: Okay. So, what have you done in terms of acting, merely recommending?

Yes, on Chief Officers, we are recommending. Mr. Katwa Kigen: The recommendation is to who?

The recommendation is to the County Public Service Board.

Mr. Katwa Kigen: Have you set up that County Public Service Board?

It is in the report. Mr. Katwa Kigen: Lastly, just to save on my time, prior to the excitement to bring this impeachment against the Governor, did you give him an opportunity to react to your concerns? Did you hear him? Did your committee give him an opportunity to be heard?

Of course, what we did--- Mr. Katwa Kigen: Please, answer my question. Did you invite him to respond to your concerns?

As a county assembly, there is no way we can invite the- --

Mr. Katwa Kigen: Please, answer my question, Mheshimiwa. Did you invite him to answer any of your concerns?

At the County Assembly, we do not have that mandate. The only way we can invite the Governor is through impeachment.

Mr. Katwa Kigen: Listen to my question again. You are chairing our committee, is it not?

Yes. Mr. Katwa Kigen: Did you invite him to come and answer any of the questions you had?

Services, Senate.

Services, Senate.

Yes, we invited him to respond to these issues through an impeachment Motion, which is here before us.

Mr. Katwa Kigen: Okay. Let the Senators listen. So, the only way you invited him is through an impeachment Motion?

Of course. Mr. Katwa Kigen: You did not bring him down and ask him about the building you are splashing on the---

That is why he had an opportunity to be in the County Assembly on the 15th.

Mr. Katwa Kigen: This impeachment is meant for him to explain how there was improper procurement, why procurements were split and why contracts were not properly executed?

Yes. Mr. Katwa Kigen: That is your point?

Yes. Mr. Katwa Kigen: Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, thank you very much for the opportunity to cross-examine. Mr. Kipkoech, thank you for answering my question.

Counsel for the County Assembly, do you want to do re-examination to the witness.

Mr. Elisha Ongoya: Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I have some two or three clarifications to seek information.

Go ahead. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: Thank you so much. Who raised the alarm that founded the basis for forming the ad hoc committee?

The Deputy Governor H.E. Fred Kirui. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: In which department does the Deputy Governor work? In which section of the county structure, is it the Executive or the County Assembly?

He is the Principal Assistant of the Governor. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: The Principal Assistant to the Governor is the one who raised these issues?

Yes. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: You have been asked about the Deputy Governor being the principal beneficiary of this impeachment Motion. My question to you is, the facts in the Deputy Governors alarm, when you did your investigation, did you confirm them to be correct or false? The facts he raised, were they eventually confirmed to be correct or false?

It was correct. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: It was correct?

Yes. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: Who supplied you with the documents that helped you to verify the allegations in the Deputy Governor’s alarm?

It was the CECM for Finance, the Chief Officer, Finance and Chief Officers from the affected departments.

Mr. Elisha Ongoya: To whom is the CECM for Finance, answerable?

Services, Senate.

Mr. Elisha Ongoya: To the executive headed by the Governor. You have been asked as to why you now attribute these actions to the Governor without any signature of his on the paper trail. What do you say to that?

Services, Senate.

Mr. Elisha Ongoya: To the executive headed by the Governor. You have been asked as to why you now attribute these actions to the Governor without any signature of his on the paper trail. What do you say to that?

It cannot be coincidence that all these departments are being affected by all these fictitious payments. It is either the Governor is incompetent or in support.

Mr. Elisha Ongoya: That is all in my re-examination.

We have more 10 minutes. I open the floor to the Senators if you need any clarification.

Sen. Joe Nyutu.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I need to seek some clarifications from the witness. Mr. Witness, when you did the fictitious payment report, you must have been motivated by the need to see that resources in Kericho County Government were expended in the right way.

Yes.

It is also true that the Governor does not or did not sign any of those documents. So, once this corruption was found to have happened, apart from impeaching the Governor, did you as a committee or at a personal level find it necessary to report this crime to the Ethics and Anti-Corruption Commission (EACC) as a good resident of Kericho County?

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I have a couple of concerns here. These are issues that we deal with on a daily basis; issues of accountability. I am deliberating on the earlier resolution of the House as chaired by the Speaker on calling additional witnesses to verify certain claims which are being raised here.

The issues being discussed here relate to the issues of accountability, which falls under two committees of this House. Specifically, the Committee on County Public Accounts (CPAC) . I have followed keenly on the submissions by the counsel for the Assembly. I have looked at volume 4, page 87, on the picture which was being displayed on the screens of a building, which is supposed to have been paid for Kshs2 million. All of us here are quite clear on that.

I have also followed keenly on the issues that have been raised on public participation and the expenditures which were incurred for that exercise. My concern is this. The earlier issue we are dealing with was of technicality. However, we now come to the issue of fiduciary responsibility.

I have two questions and one for you, Mr. Deputy Speaker.

For me or the witness? I am not the witness, Sen. Olekina.

Services, Senate. There is one which was overpaid. There was one department that you allege, the water department, was budgeted for Kshs1 million---

Services, Senate. There is one which was overpaid. There was one department that you allege, the water department, was budgeted for Kshs1 million---

My communication is that all the time you will be consuming two minutes only.

Then can I finish this? You should have told me that, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. This is a very important matter.

Conclude within one minute.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. You had indicated that in the water department, the budget was Kshs1 million, but the procurement was Kshs3 million. Did you verify clearly that these payments were paid out? Was it a planning budget or an actual budget?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the issue that I have requested you, can you please, guide this House in the matter of expenditures that have been paid out, whether we can verify that from either the Controller of Budget (CoB) or the contractor?

Let the witness answer or clarify those issues. Maybe he has an answer for you, Sen. Olekina. That he has the documents to justify his allegations. So, witness, you have four minutes.

Okay, thank you, Hon. Speaker. The first question on EACC reports from ---

An hon Senator: We have other questions.

Order, Hon. Senators. Witness, proceed and give your responses.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, when the Deputy Governor appeared before ad hoc committee, he confirmed that he wrote a letter to EACC on the said fictitious payment. We also invited the County Secretary, who confirmed that they have also received the reports from the EACC. So, when we saw that already the EACC has a report, we decided to deal with the issues that we were expected to do by the Assembly.

On the issue that was raised by Senator for Narok County, we had a budget of Kshs1 million. When the EACC appeared before us, he confirmed that all the payments in that list, the fictitious payment was paid. So, which means it was overdrawn in that vote line.

Thank you.

Are you done with the answers?

Yes.

Then I have two or three minutes for other Senators to still ask their questions.

Let us have Sen. Keroche Tabitha.

Services, Senate. because I do not think the CEO – I have been a CEO of a company, so I know the CEO does very little. He or she depends on the people on the ground.

I support what you have done. As MCAs, when you see misappropriation of your funds and all that, you take action. You deserve to be commended because some of us come from counties that misappropriation of funds is an everyday business, but we have never had any attempt to impeach our governor.

Congratulations for that. (Laughter) However, for now, I just want to understand ---

Services, Senate. because I do not think the CEO – I have been a CEO of a company, so I know the CEO does very little. He or she depends on the people on the ground.

I support what you have done. As MCAs, when you see misappropriation of your funds and all that, you take action. You deserve to be commended because some of us come from counties that misappropriation of funds is an everyday business, but we have never had any attempt to impeach our governor.

Congratulations for that. (Laughter) However, for now, I just want to understand ---

Sen. Tabitha Keroche, let the witness answer you in less than one minute. If you have---

My time is over. Yes, witness answer my question.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. What prompted the investigations to be done by the Assembly was the letter that was sent through the Speaker by His Excellency the Deputy Governor, so that we start investigations on those fictitious payments.

Hon. Senators, it is now 1.15 p.m., time to adjourn the Senate. The Senate, therefore, stands adjourned until later today, that is, Thursday, 28th August, 2025, at 2.30 p.m.

The Senate rose at 1.15 p.m.

Hon. Senators, it is now 1.15 p.m., time to adjourn the Senate. The Senate, therefore, stands adjourned until later today, that is, Thursday, 28th August, 2025, at 2.30 p.m.

The Senate rose at 1.15 p.m.