Thursday, 25th July, 2019

Hon. Senators, I would like to acknowledge the presence in the Public Gallery this afternoon, of visiting students and teachers from Arnesens Primary School in Uasin Gishu County.

In our usual tradition of receiving and welcoming visitors to Parliament, I extend a warm welcome to them. On behalf of the Senate and my own behalf, I welcome and wish them a fruitful visit.

I thank you.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I join you in welcoming the students from Uasin Gishu and Embu counties to the Senate. I would like to encourage them to have an open mind. I went to school in Uasin Gishu County for a long time. Therefore, it is possible that from the primary school they are in, they can become Senators.

We look forward to their future leadership. These students can pursue leaders where they are and pursue good values. I congratulate the teachers for taking their time to bring the children here because learning is not just in class rooms, but through exposure to leadership and other areas.

I thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I join you in welcoming the students from Uasin Gishu and Embu counties. The two counties are represented by very active and hardworking Senators. I believe that they are held up somewhere carrying out the activities and responsibilities of their counties. However, the fact that they are not here does not mean that we cannot welcome you. We are here to welcome you on their behalf.

This is a rare opportunity for schools to come to Parliament. Sometimes it is difficult for some schools to come to this House. This is a good chance for the students to come to this House. They should appreciate and explore this opportunity to learn what they have obtained while here. I wish them all the best in their studies, especially those who are in Class Eight. I believe that they will achieve what they have earned here. I hope that in future, they will be the leaders in this House.

I thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I join you in welcoming the students from Uasin Gishu County to the House. I come from Kakamega County and we border Uasin Gishu County. It is good practice for children as young as this age to come to the Senate to interact with us and see what exactly happens here.

Children learn from observing, seeing and hearing. I commend the school for bringing the students here. Not many schools have such an initiative. Therefore, I commend the teachers for doing a good job. When the learners were coming to the House, I could see some of them running to ensure that they get in on time before we start the sitting. Time management is very important in any institution. I urge them to be punctual in whatever they do.

I thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I join you in welcoming the students from Uasin Gishu and Embu counties. It is a pleasure to see such cheerful students in the House who have come to see what we do in the Senate. We congratulate the teachers who made the effort to bring the young pupils to this Chamber. I also congratulate the parents for supporting the teachers to bring the students here. Being here is an added advantage to the students to see exactly what we do in the Senate, so that we can inspire them to be future leaders.

Next Order.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to lay the following Paper on the Table of the Senate today, Thursday, 25th July, 2019-

Report of the Ad hoc Committee inquiring into the challenges facing the tea sector in Kenya.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to lay the following Paper on the Table of the Senate today, Thursday, 25th July, 2019-

Next Order.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to give notice of the following Motion today, Thursday, 25th July, 2019-

THAT, the Senate adopts the Report of the Ad hoc Committee inquiring into the challenges facing the tea sector in Kenya, laid on the Table of the Senate on Thursday, 25th July, 2019.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to give notice of the following Motion today, Thursday, 25th July, 2019-

THAT, the Senate notes the Report of the Parliament of Kenya delegation to the United Nations Conference on Climate Change (COP 24)

held in Katowice, Poland, from 3rd to 14th December, 2018, laid on the Table of the Senate on Thursday, 25th July, 2019.

Next Order.

Sen. Malahah is not in the Chamber. This Statement is therefore deferred.

Let us move on to the next Statement.

I can see the Senator from Nairobi County, Sen. Omanga creating a lot of excitement in the House.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I heard you say the Senator of Nairobi County. I would like to confirm that there it only one ‘super’ Senator.

Sen. Omanga is well dressed because we are from a function at the biggest integrated school of Muslims and Christians in the country.

I said the Senator from Nairobi County. Kindly proceed, Sen. Seneta.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.48 (1) to seek a Statement from the Standing Committee on Health regarding the sale of meat laced with dangerous chemicals in Kenyan butcheries.

In the Statement the Committee should-

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to support the Statement that has been brought to the fore by our colleague, Sen. Seneta. Kenyans are looking up to us, as the Houses of Parliament. When such grave issues about their safety are put to the kind of test that we have observed in the last few weeks, it is so embarrassing. It is a shame that as a House, we have not considered ways of solving this issue. It is two weeks since the issue was aired and none of the Houses of Parliament has addressed it specifically us in the Senate because this is an issue concerning health which is a fully devolved function.

In other jurisdictions, when such an issue comes up, the Cabinet Secretary would have assured the country or perhaps even resigned if it is confirmed that, indeed, Kenyans are eating poisoned meat.

Therefore, Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to urge our colleagues in the Committee that this matter will be assigned to, to treat it with extreme urgency because Kenyans are waiting to know the outcome of the independent tests that are being carried out. We need to seek solutions and understand; can we really get credible answers, as a country, if we send the same people to go and investigate and confirm to us yet they are the first who ought to have checked? The fact that they failed to carry out the inspection and ensure that Kenyans are eating healthy meat, then we cannot trust them to give us a report confirming the presence of dangerous chemicals in these foods.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, normally, the standard time we have agreed to get feedback on such issues is two weeks, but on this particular one, I request that you vary that and make it seven days or less.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I also want to go on record in support of the Statement by Sen. Seneta on this issue of consuming poisoned meat from butcheries.

I have two issues: One, it is really unbelievable that it took the work of a journalist to bring out these facts. The question that this nation should be asking itself is: For how long have we consumed this meat before the journalist carried out investigations and came up with this report?

Two, I would have naturally expected that when such a thing happens, the relevant committees of the House including the Committee on Health, would have on their own motion been seized of this matter, dealt with it and give a report to Kenyans as to the extent of this malpractice.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to urge that the Committee that gets seized of this matter does a thorough job, talks to all the relevant bodies, including quality assurance bodies, to ensure that the food that Kenyans are consuming is fit for human consumption.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. This is a very good and strong Statement. We realize that these problems are there. It is unfortunate that, as a previous speaker before me pointed out, we had to wait for a journalist to do it yet we have people who are tasked with those duties.

Unfortunately, this issue affects mainly the people who are here, the middle and upper class, because most Kenyans go to the butcheries or they slaughter on their own. If we cannot take care of ourselves, then I do not know who will take care of us. If it is brought to the Committee on Health, we will do our best to make sure that the people concerned are able to answer these questions.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. This is a very good and strong Statement. We realize that these problems are there. It is unfortunate that, as a previous speaker before me pointed out, we had to wait for a journalist to do it yet we have people who are tasked with those duties.

Unfortunately, this issue affects mainly the people who are here, the middle and upper class, because most Kenyans go to the butcheries or they slaughter on their own. If we cannot take care of ourselves, then I do not know who will take care of us. If it is brought to the Committee on Health, we will do our best to make sure that the people concerned are able to answer these questions.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I also wish to join other Senators in supporting this Statement by Sen. Seneta and congratulate her for bringing up very critical issues.

My opinion is that it is not just probably meat; meat was uncovered by the journalist. There might be many other things there to uncover. I request that as they investigate the meat, they broaden to other consumables that Kenyans are exposed to, look into issues of standards and quality control, all the organizations that are concerned with this matter and bring them on board to explain what is happening. Why are we dropping the ball? Is it that there is a lot of work? Is it that they cannot keep up? Is it an issue of personnel or equipment? What is the problem? I think this is a broader problem.

Lately, we have seen an upsurge of cancer cases at an alarming rate. Maybe these are the issues that are actually leading to such diseases. Kenyans are exposed and if the media had not highlighted this, we would not have known and we would be comfortably consuming this meat.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I request that, if possible, that this Statement be broadened to scrutinize all consumables by Kenyans, service providers and quality control in order to deal with this issue once and for all.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

that your sugar has mercury. At lunch time, your ugali has aflatoxin and the meat has sodium. If you go to the house, as a result of the building standards, it may collapse. A Kenyan cannot verify standards of all these things. You enter a vehicle and realise that it is unroad worthy because there is a Bureau that is actually failing the people of this country.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, our work is to protect the people of this country and assure them that wherever they are operating, there is a Government that is taking care of their interests. Today, I want to tell you, and I am not sounding like a prophet of doom, but I know that from many parts of the country, not just of this city, a lot of the vegetables, which are possibly making their way to Parliament, are being grown and irrigated by untreated sewer water. The vegetables are very green and leafy. How does an ordinary Kenyan at the market ascertain that this product is healthy?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, does national Government and county governments do spot checks in our supermarkets since it is the food department that actually looks at quality control? I am glad that some supermarkets have closed down their meat sections, but that is a knee jerk reaction. They should be doing their work and should be held accountable for the safety and health of the people of this country.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

that your sugar has mercury. At lunch time, your ugali has aflatoxin and the meat has sodium. If you go to the house, as a result of the building standards, it may collapse. A Kenyan cannot verify standards of all these things. You enter a vehicle and realise that it is unroad worthy because there is a Bureau that is actually failing the people of this country.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, our work is to protect the people of this country and assure them that wherever they are operating, there is a Government that is taking care of their interests. Today, I want to tell you, and I am not sounding like a prophet of doom, but I know that from many parts of the country, not just of this city, a lot of the vegetables, which are possibly making their way to Parliament, are being grown and irrigated by untreated sewer water. The vegetables are very green and leafy. How does an ordinary Kenyan at the market ascertain that this product is healthy?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, does national Government and county governments do spot checks in our supermarkets since it is the food department that actually looks at quality control? I am glad that some supermarkets have closed down their meat sections, but that is a knee jerk reaction. They should be doing their work and should be held accountable for the safety and health of the people of this country.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

not easy to investigate businessmen who are feeding people poison. However, he took it upon himself to disclose to Kenyans that we are eating poisoned food.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is so serious and scary. I make a personal confession that from that day, I stopped buying meat from the shelves. I went for a goat from my home and put it in the fridge. This will be my tradition. Probably, it will finish my only goats, but it is safer to have no goats than to eat poisoned meat.

I support this Statement and ask the Committee to come out strongly and ensure that these people are punished, so that they do not repeat it.

not easy to investigate businessmen who are feeding people poison. However, he took it upon himself to disclose to Kenyans that we are eating poisoned food.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is so serious and scary. I make a personal confession that from that day, I stopped buying meat from the shelves. I went for a goat from my home and put it in the fridge. This will be my tradition. Probably, it will finish my only goats, but it is safer to have no goats than to eat poisoned meat.

I support this Statement and ask the Committee to come out strongly and ensure that these people are punished, so that they do not repeat it.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I thank Sen. Seneta for bringing this Statement. When that story ran on NTV, it was christened ‘The Red Alert’. It was scary considering that there is an upsurge of cancer cases and other lifestyle diseases in the country. This is an interesting country because we are reactionary. After the exposé by NTV, the Cabinet Secretary (CS) Ministry of Health, Ms. Sicily Kariuki issued a report which said that they had investigated the issue. This era of being reactionary should stop. Eating something that is poisonous or can lead to infection or other disease is sad.

On the flip side, we should also protect the businesses of people who sell meat in the country. It means that the veterinary officers and that of the Ministry of Health and county governments are sleeping on their jobs. Kenyans love meat, for example, nyama choma or grilled meat.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, at one point I used to be a butcher at Kingsway Butchery in Mosoriot Township. I know that if meat it is not handled properly, it can be dangerous and toxic. When a person eats food that can cause food poisoning, it is dangerous. I have seen the Vice Chairperson of the Committee on Health, Sen. (Dr.) Ali. That Committee must take this matter with the seriousness that it deserves. We cannot play around with food that is served to Kenyans.

The other day, we were talking about mercury in sugar and now we are talking about excess preservatives in meat. There are also Genetically Modified Organisms (GMOs) and so many things. For example, milk is also infiltrated upon. The County Government of Nairobi City should not be reactionary. They must give us proactive steps. They should not close butcheries, which is something that can be done by anybody even county askaris. Are there any investigations? What are the public health officers doing? It is either we destroy the businesses of people who sell meat or kill Kenyans through the food that they eat which is resulting in an upsurge of infections and cancer cases.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I support this Statement and hope that the Committee on Health, which we have faith in, will come up with proactive and necessary measures to protect Kenyans from this issue.

As I conclude, I thank NTV for conducting the exposé ‘The Red Alert’ by Dennis Okari. It is important to partner with the media because they are doing a good job of investigative journalism and protecting Kenyans.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for giving me an opportunity to give my thoughts to this Statement. I thank Sen. Seneta for coming up with this Statement at the right time. When I was watching the news on the way butcheries were using toxic substances to preserve meat, I was negatively affected. It is something that we must interrogate and investigate as a Senate. We must stop callous entrepreneurs who seem not to care about the lives of people. They use toxic substances in the name of preservatives because they want to make money. Butcheries need to purchase enough meat that will sustain their customers for a specific time instead of buying a lot of meat and then look for ways to ensure that it is sold.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, some of the meat becomes red or purple. It hurts that we have been taking this kind of meat. There is need to interrogate this because some diseases like cancer are coming up because of lifestyle issues. Lung diseases are also coming up because of consuming toxic food. We must find ways of protecting Kenyans from poisonous food.

As I was watching news, I saw how chicken and fish were injected with some chemical to make them puffy. This is worrying. We need to help Kenyans----

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for giving me an opportunity to give my thoughts to this Statement. I thank Sen. Seneta for coming up with this Statement at the right time. When I was watching the news on the way butcheries were using toxic substances to preserve meat, I was negatively affected. It is something that we must interrogate and investigate as a Senate. We must stop callous entrepreneurs who seem not to care about the lives of people. They use toxic substances in the name of preservatives because they want to make money. Butcheries need to purchase enough meat that will sustain their customers for a specific time instead of buying a lot of meat and then look for ways to ensure that it is sold.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, some of the meat becomes red or purple. It hurts that we have been taking this kind of meat. There is need to interrogate this because some diseases like cancer are coming up because of lifestyle issues. Lung diseases are also coming up because of consuming toxic food. We must find ways of protecting Kenyans from poisonous food.

As I was watching news, I saw how chicken and fish were injected with some chemical to make them puffy. This is worrying. We need to help Kenyans----

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity to support this Statement by Sen. Seneta.

It is sad to see that our country still has short cuts of selling goods and services that are unworthy to human beings. People engage in such businesses that touch on people’s lives, for example, selling poisonous meat in the supermarkets because they want to make quick money which is always dangerous. It is not good to practice this on human life.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, as a Member of the Senate Committee on Health , when we get this Statement, we are ready to tackle it and work together with my colleagues, so that we get to the bottom of this matter. The health standards in this country, especially the public health, have gone down to an extent that citizens are not protected especially in public trade such as supermarkets and butcheries.People are engaging in illegal trade especially when they are using, processing, treating, labeling, packaging and selling or advertising goods that are unfit for human consumption. That is endangering the fabric of our life. We are ready to work as a Committee to make sure that Kenyans are safeguarded from all this.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, countries such as Argentina and Australia are earning a lot of foreign exchange through export of meat. It is not just the beef, but the whole line of things such as fish, vegetables, canned food and even medicine. In this country, you never know anymore when you are buying pharmaceutical products.

A certain auctioneer told me that he went to a godown along Mombasa Road to confiscate things. He found somebody there with a machine repackaging expired drugs. He was removing them from the old packet and repackaging them. He walked to the nearest police station and asked the Officer Commanding the Station (OCS) to go and raid the place. The OCS said it was not his duty, but that of the Pharmacy and Poisons Board (PPB)---

Mr. Speaker, Sir, countries such as Argentina and Australia are earning a lot of foreign exchange through export of meat. It is not just the beef, but the whole line of things such as fish, vegetables, canned food and even medicine. In this country, you never know anymore when you are buying pharmaceutical products.

A certain auctioneer told me that he went to a godown along Mombasa Road to confiscate things. He found somebody there with a machine repackaging expired drugs. He was removing them from the old packet and repackaging them. He walked to the nearest police station and asked the Officer Commanding the Station (OCS) to go and raid the place. The OCS said it was not his duty, but that of the Pharmacy and Poisons Board (PPB)---

Your time is up Sen. (Eng.) Maina.

You shouldcondense your remarks. Let us have Sen. Boy. Order, Sen. (Eng.) Maina.

Asante sana, Bw. Spika, kwa kunipa fursa hii nichangie taarifa hii ambayo imeletwa na Sen. Seneta. Kusema kweli hili ni jambo la kusikitisha sana kwa sababu kama unavyojua, kwenye vichinjio kuna watu wa afya pale. Kama ng’ombe au kuku anachinjwa wako pale kupiga ile nyama muhuri. Hili ni jambo la kusikitisha sana.

Tume onyeshwa juzi katika runinga vile nyama ina vyoletwa kwenye maduka ya supermarket. Hili jambo lita leta athari kubwa sana katika maisha yetu. Kwa hivyo, namuunga mkono Sen. Seneta kwa kuleta taarifa hii hapa. Hii Kamati ya Afya ishughulikie jambo hili. Si kwamba wasemetu; waende wenyewe wazunguke katika hizi supermarkets waangalie. Hawa maofisa wa afya huwa wako wapi wakati mifugo hawa wanapo chinjwa kwenye vichinjio hivi? Hawafai kukaa tu na kuchukua mishahara mwisho wa mwezi.

Bw. Spika, naunga mkono taarifa hii. Ningepekeza Kamati ya Afya itakayo chunguza jambo hili waende katika vichinjioni na kuhakikisha kwamba kweli mifugo na kuku hawa wanapo chinjwa wanapigwa muhuri.

Naunga mkono.

Order. We have a lot of interest. Those speaking please, manage your speech within the two minutes.

Order. We have a lot of interest. Those speaking please, manage your speech within the two minutes.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

What is your intervention, Sen. (Eng.) Maina.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am just appealing to you that when there is a subject of national importance especially involving the threat on the lives of Kenyans, I would beseech you to allow a minimum of five minutes. You can see everybody has a problem of the sequence of mind and thinking when he is cut short too soon. It does not do justice in prosecuting the matter. This is just a request.

I am aware of that. That is why I gave two minutes to each speaker. I would have given one minute but I have taken into consideration what you have said. However, I also request those who are talking to try and compress what they want to say because sometimes we end up just repeating ourselves because most of the people would have already said most of the issues. However, your point is noted.

Proceed, Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr.

Asante Bw. Spika. Naunga mkono taarifa ya Sen. Seneta. Kweli haya maneno ya nyama na vitu vingine ambavyo tumekuwa tuskiskia kuhusu maduka yetu ni ya kusikitisha sana.Sio nyama tuu bali hata vyakula vingine vingi kama mboga vimehusishwa na Genetically Modified Organisms (GMOs) .

Kwa sababu ya ufisadi, utapata maafisa ambao wanafaa kukagua hivi vyakula madukani hawatilii maanani. Wanachukua tuu hongo na hawazingatii viwango vinavyotakikana. Wananchi wanafaa sasa kula mboga tuu au tununue nyama Halal. Kwa mfano, ninanunua nyama kutoka kwa maduka yanayo uza nyama halali kama sivyo, tunakula mboga tuu.

Haya ni mambo ambayo tunafaa kuangalia. Hata tukiweka sheria, tufuate ile sheria ya Kiislamu jinsi wanavyotengeneza nyama yao. Tukibuni sheria, hayo ni mambo ambayo Kamati ya Afya inapaswa kuangalia. Hii ni kwa sababu hatujasikia kuhusu duka lolote linalouza nyama Halal likiuza nyama ambayo ina chembe za sodium na kadhalika. Nina pendekeza sote tuanze kula nyama Halal.

Asante Bw. Spika.

Nina kupongeza sana kwa kujaribu bila kuwa na shida hapa na pale.

Sen. Olekina, nafasi ni yako.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I rise to support this Statement by my dear sister, Sen. Seneta. I am a farmer and it is not only meat that is not being kept in a proper way, but all vegetables. If you buy bananas from big supermarkets, they ripen within a day. They are brought in when green, a chemical is put and when you go in, there are beautiful yellow bananas. It is the same thing for vegetables.

It is about time that we ask ourselves what we can do to ensure all of us take responsibility. It is not only about the farmer or the shops and butcheries, but also Government officials who are tasked with the responsibly of ensuring standards.I would like the Committee which you will task with carrying out more investigations into this matter, to follow the entire channel from the farm.

If you drive to Narok County on a daily basis, at 3.00 a.m., you will find pick-ups transporting meat all the way from Narok County to Nairobi City County. The moment you transport that meat from Narok County to Nairobi City County, already you have sort of put it in a condition where it is not safe for human consumption. We ought to look into the issue of bacteria. In the end, it might be helpful for us if standards are clearly defined.

When you go to buy meat in the United States of America (USA) , for example, you will know from which farm that meat has come from. You can then follow through, so that when you consume the meat and suffer food poisoning, you know who to prosecute. Those are the standards that we must develop.

Finally, this is the problem that I think the Committee ought to look into. When you take meat from a freezer and put it into a fridge, you affect the stability of the good bacteria. This Committee ought to follow thorough to ensure that all butcheries have a standard system of freezing and ensuring constant and stable electricity. Electricity in this country is unstable.

Thank you.

Asante, Bw. Spika, kwa kunipa nafasi. Kwa kweli dunia imeharibika. Bidhaa na hasa vyakula vimeharibiwa kabisa. Bidhaa za nyama zikiwekwa kemikali ili zisioze ama zikae kwa muda murefu, tunakiuka hali halisi ya chakula. Katika hali hiyo, nyama inawekwa madawa ili ikae siku mbili au tatu bila kuharibika. Ile kemikali ambayo inawekwa hiyo nyama kwa muda mrefu inaweza haribu afya ya mwanadamu.

Ninaunga mkono taarifa hii ili kemikali na vitu vingine visiwekwe kwa nyama na hata vyakula vingine kama ndizi, machungwa na kadhalika. Chakula kiwekwe katika hali yake halisi ambayo imekuzwa katika mashamba ili tukuze jamii bora zenye afya.

Ninaunga mkono, Bw. Spika.

Asante, Bw. Spika, kwa kunipa nafasi. Kwa kweli dunia imeharibika. Bidhaa na hasa vyakula vimeharibiwa kabisa. Bidhaa za nyama zikiwekwa kemikali ili zisioze ama zikae kwa muda murefu, tunakiuka hali halisi ya chakula. Katika hali hiyo, nyama inawekwa madawa ili ikae siku mbili au tatu bila kuharibika. Ile kemikali ambayo inawekwa hiyo nyama kwa muda mrefu inaweza haribu afya ya mwanadamu.

Ninaunga mkono taarifa hii ili kemikali na vitu vingine visiwekwe kwa nyama na hata vyakula vingine kama ndizi, machungwa na kadhalika. Chakula kiwekwe katika hali yake halisi ambayo imekuzwa katika mashamba ili tukuze jamii bora zenye afya.

Ninaunga mkono, Bw. Spika.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for giving me an opportunity to make my remarks on this important matter. There are fables and myths where I come from. If you want to bewitch somebody, you do so through food. These people who vend poisonous food are actually witches. I am glad we come from counties and communities that do not agree to being bewitched particularly through food. In my community, we deal with witches by exterminating them. We actually lynch them.

I ask the Committee that will be tasked with the responsibility of looking at this matter to ensure that the recommendations they make include extermination of these witches. This is because these witches who give us poisoned food kill us slowly. When you are being killed slowly, you suffer the cost of hospital---

Sen. M. Kajwang', what is your point of intervention?

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. It is a bit uncomfortable sitting next to the Senator for Migori County and listening to him advocating for extrajudicial killings in the form of dealing with witches. Is it in order for it to go on record; that a distinguished Senator has recommended that we exterminate people who are suspected to be witches? That is extrajudicial killing that we have pronounced ourselves on in the past.

Order, Members! Every community has a way of dealing with their own witches. As the Senator for Migori County has said, they have a way of dealing with theirs. Let us leave it to them to manage them.

Proceed.

Order, Members! Every community has a way of dealing with their own witches. As the Senator for Migori County has said, they have a way of dealing with theirs. Let us leave it to them to manage them.

Proceed.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I sympathise with my neighbour. In Homa Bay County, they have an association of witches.

Sen. M. Kajwang', what is your point of intervention?

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. For all I know, in Homa Bay County, we do not have an association of witches. We might have an association of night runners. Night running is a sport and not witchcraft. Could the Senator for Migori County withdraw those insinuations that we have witches in Homa Bay County?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, in my community, there is no distinction between night runners and witches. In fact, night runners are night witches. I sympathise with my colleague who is defending witches. However, I am more concerned with the witches who poison people through food.

On a point of order Mr. Speaker, Sir.

What is your intervention Sen. Shiyonga?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the two Senators are talking of the same thing. Witches and night runners are people who are in action and they need to be applauded.

What is your point of order? That must have been on a light note.

Proceed, Sen. Ochillo-Ayacko.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I am not advocating for extrajudicial killing, but I want the Committee concerned to know that these people are killing Kenyans. I want them to come up with recommendations that will legally exterminate these people so as to prevent them from poisoning Kenyans for the sake of making profit.

This Statement is not just about poisoning Kenyans, but it is also affecting tourism. People who visit Kenya to see its beauty and splendour are now alarmed that they will eat poisoned food. Our visitors will reduce and if they are to come, they will probably carry their own food and that will cripple our economy. This is a serious matter and I am happy that Sen. Seneta has raised it on behalf of aggrieved Kenyans.

Asante Bw. Spika. Tangu nchi hii ipate uhuru mpaka sasa, hatuja wahi kuwa na aibu kubwa kama hili jambo la wakenya kula nyama iliyo dungwa dawa. Maduka ambayo yana patikana na hatia ya kuuza nyama mbovu ni lazima yafungwe mara moja. Veterinary inspectors wana takikana wafanye kazi yao vizuri. Tunajua ya kwamba kuna ufisadi mwingi unao endelea na hatutaki kusema ya kwamba hao ni wafisadi kwa sababu hakuna hatua ya kisheria ambayo ime chukuliwa lakini tuna sema ya kwamba huu upotevu ni wa kusikitisha. Daktari ambao wana chunguza nyama wasiwe wazembe katika kazi.

On a point of order Mr. Speaker, Sir.

What is your point of order Sen. Omanga?

hao watu wamekubalia hiyo nyama kuwa katika maduka yetu. Je hiyo ni halali? Anasema eti hatuwezi kuwaita wafisadi mpaka wapelekwe kortini.

hao watu wamekubalia hiyo nyama kuwa katika maduka yetu. Je hiyo ni halali? Anasema eti hatuwezi kuwaita wafisadi mpaka wapelekwe kortini.

Bw. Spika, katika sheria zetu, mtu hana hatia mpaka apatikane na hatia. Hawa madaktari ambao wana chunguza hao wanyama ndio wako na hatia. Ni lazima hao madaktari wazingatie ya kwamba wakenya wana tumia chakula hiyo na wanaweza poteza maisha yao wakikula chakula mbaya.

Hon. Senators, I would like to acknowledge the presence in the Public Gallery this afternoon, of visiting students and teachers from Arunda Primary School, Homa Bay County.

In our usual tradition of receiving and welcoming visitors to Parliament, I extend a warm welcome to them and on behalf of the Senate and on my own behalf, wish them a fruitful visit.

Thank you.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, allow me to welcome the students from Arunda Primary School. This is one of the best primary schools in Homa Bay Constituency and Homa Bay County. I am glad that the boys and girls sitting in the gallery have come here to get exposure on the law making process and the mechanics of running this nation through legislation.

They had the choice of either going to the National Assembly or the Senate and in their wisdom; the leadership of the school chose the Senate. They have come to the House of sober debate and second reflection. I want to encourage the youngsters to aspire high. I will not sit in the Senate forever hence they should prepare themselves to take over the position that I am holding. However, they should allow me to serve my term. When I get tired, I will hold their hands as they represent the people of Homa Bay.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I also welcome the students from Homa Bay County. I want to confirm to the students that they have an active and hardworking Senator. They should prepare to take over from him when he retires.

by counties while using the Integrated Financial Management Information System (IFMIS).

In the Statement, the Committee should-

The previous Statement will be handled by the Committee on Health.

Proceed, Sen. Ochillo-Ayacko.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Allow me to add my voice to what my neighbour, Sen. M. Kajwang’, has said. On behalf of the people of Migori County and on my own behalf, I want to welcome the students from Arunda Primary School, Homa Bay County. They are my neighbours. I regularly visit Homa Bay County. They should make the best out of their visit.

Sen. Dullo is my sister and we pursued our Masters degree at the same time. She has brought a wonderful Statement to this House. Most governors and county governments lament about timely flow of cash. If this is not addressed, we will keep on hearing of failure to absorb funds because of remitting funds at the end of the financial year.

I beseech and implore the Committee that will be tasked with the responsibility of finding a solution to this to look at the technicalities; the nuts and bolts, of how to run IFMIS. They should also ask the person responsible for transmitting finances to county governments to do it in a timely and secure manner for the counties to perform their mandate. In the month of July, most institutions of Government lack cash flow because IFMIS stalls in that month.

Other than addressing the issue of IFMIS in so far as county governments are concerned, to address it in so as far as other institutions are concerned because we all need services; whether nationally or in the counties.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I congratulate my sister for raising this very important issue.

Sen. M. Kajwang’

I wanted to suggest that as the Committee deals with this Statement, we broaden the perspective to look at the different information systems that are being used by counties. IFMIS is just one of them. We also have the Integrated Payroll and Payroll Database (IPPD) that is used for personnel records and management. We also have the Local Authority Financial Management System (LAFMS), which has previously been used for recognition of own-source revenue. Unfortunately, counties continue to use LAFMS when it does not enjoy support. The IPPDP is housed in the Ministry of Labour and Social Protection while IFMIS is housed in the National Treasury. LAFMS has no home and no one is supporting it. There is another solution called G-pay and then we have got multiple revenue collection systems that counties are using.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I urge that as it is committed to the relevant Committee, the Committee expands the scope to all the information technology platforms. I know IFMIS takes 60 per cent of the concerns, but we need to ensure that there are proper enterprise architecture and proper framework for the other little systems for their utilisation in counties.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

I wanted to suggest that as the Committee deals with this Statement, we broaden the perspective to look at the different information systems that are being used by counties. IFMIS is just one of them. We also have the Integrated Payroll and Payroll Database (IPPD) that is used for personnel records and management. We also have the Local Authority Financial Management System (LAFMS), which has previously been used for recognition of own-source revenue. Unfortunately, counties continue to use LAFMS when it does not enjoy support. The IPPDP is housed in the Ministry of Labour and Social Protection while IFMIS is housed in the National Treasury. LAFMS has no home and no one is supporting it. There is another solution called G-pay and then we have got multiple revenue collection systems that counties are using.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I urge that as it is committed to the relevant Committee, the Committee expands the scope to all the information technology platforms. I know IFMIS takes 60 per cent of the concerns, but we need to ensure that there are proper enterprise architecture and proper framework for the other little systems for their utilisation in counties.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Sen. Halake.

choose what is suitable at different times. The multiple engines and use is of concern. This House should look at it. Within the expenditure frameworks that we saw within the audit reports, there were big disparities from all the different systems that there are.

I support and request that perhaps we expand this to include all the systems that are being used.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

choose what is suitable at different times. The multiple engines and use is of concern. This House should look at it. Within the expenditure frameworks that we saw within the audit reports, there were big disparities from all the different systems that there are.

I support and request that perhaps we expand this to include all the systems that are being used.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Sen. Sakaja.

counties to use and whether they can adapt theirs and if not, what basic standards can cut across. With that, Kakamega and Wajir counties can develop their own that patches on to it.

Finally, there must be a standard on the amount of money being taken as a commission by the companies that are being engaged to collect revenue in our counties. In some counties, it is up to six per cent and others, it is 10 per cent of the commission of revenue yet we have a revenue authority that is national and our counties can set up their own revenue authorities. So, let the law not be misused to create gaps for maleficence and theft.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

counties to use and whether they can adapt theirs and if not, what basic standards can cut across. With that, Kakamega and Wajir counties can develop their own that patches on to it.

Finally, there must be a standard on the amount of money being taken as a commission by the companies that are being engaged to collect revenue in our counties. In some counties, it is up to six per cent and others, it is 10 per cent of the commission of revenue yet we have a revenue authority that is national and our counties can set up their own revenue authorities. So, let the law not be misused to create gaps for maleficence and theft.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

In the interest for the time we have for Statements, those who will speak now will have three minutes.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. This is a very important Statement from Sen. Dullo. This issue of IFMIS is giving us a nightmare everywhere. In some counties, you are told that you are given 10 minutes at midnight. I do not know why they want people to become nocturnal animals to do their jobs at night.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, many people have been arrested because of being told they have misused their signatures. When you ask them, they say somebody used their password. As the Senator for Nairobi City County said, there are problems here. Those who are experts in information technology can make sure that the passwords for those who are semi-analogue are misused and they steal. This is what happened in the National Youth Service (NYS) scandal where many people were arrested, later some few were charged and others were released. I think whichever Committee that will be responsible for this Statement must look into the technicalities of the whole issue and assist these counties with that.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the own-source revenue, we are already dealing with a Bill that is sponsored by Sen. (Dr.) Zani which will hopefully resolve this issue because we want one system for the whole country, but the counties can have their own.

I thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Hon. Senators, I have a Communication to make.

In our usual tradition of receiving and welcoming visitors to Parliament, I extend a warm welcome to them. On behalf of the Senate and my own behalf, I welcome and wish them a fruitful visit.

I thank you. Sen. Olekina, you can welcome the student and proceed to make your remarks on the Statement

Mr. Speaker, Sir, from the onset, I welcome the students from Narok County. While they are here, they should think about tomorrow. I would like to encourage the students to conserve the environment. I will give them my phone number so that when they plant trees at their school, they should call me to come see the trees and support them. I am sure they know how dry Narok County is. However, when we plant more trees, it will help us. One day when I am old and walking using the support of a walking stick, I will be watching the students who are future leaders debate in here. I urge them to aspire to greater things. I hope that I can see them before they leave.

I also rise to contribute to the Statement by Sen. Dullo on the issue of Integrated Financial Management Information System (IFMIS) . I am one of the people who believe that the IFMIS is not bad. What is bad is that we are not at the same level in terms of technology capacity in the country. One of the most important things that the Committee needs to look at while dealing with this issue is whether the single payment system that the National Treasury is forcing us to us, how is it interconnected with the IFMIS. In most cases, when the IFMIS is down, it is because there is no money to pay people. We need to agree that it is time to have an IFMIS system for county governments and another system for the national Government.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the biggest problem that we have observed is that a lot of the counties are over budgeting yet they do not have the money. As we condemn the IFMIS, we have to look into what we can do to ensure that county government’s budget only within the amount of money that they have. The issue of supplementary budgets that bypass IFMIS is what is causing the problems that we are having with the system.

As the Committee will be looking into this issue I hope that we will be realistic and accept the fact that a lot of cartels do not want the IFMIS to work. They do not want the system to work because they want to bypass those steps where by you can input a zero and with technology you can add another zero so that instead of being paid Kshs2,000 you are paid Kshs20,000. These are realities that we must accept and make sure that whatever solutions we are looking for are things that will help this country go forward and not those that will continue oiling the paths of the cartels.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I thank you.

communication between the county and national Government. Somehow for some reason, the system has been so mystified to the point that you are never clear on what is happening. From the trips that we have made to various counties, it is in only one county that we saw some level of transparency in the way that they were using the IFMIS. To a large extent, the IFMIS has been abused. Therefore, a good review has to be made.

I support the Senator for Isiolo County for bringing this Statement Sen. (Dr.) Ali alluded to the fact that we already have an amendment Bill on the Public Finance Management (PFM) Act. However, for devolution to work, a thorough investigation of the IFMIS and any other system needs to be conducted. We many even need to involve more Senators in the Committee of the Whole to look into the issue of IFMIS and other systems within counties and sort it once and for all.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I thank you.

communication between the county and national Government. Somehow for some reason, the system has been so mystified to the point that you are never clear on what is happening. From the trips that we have made to various counties, it is in only one county that we saw some level of transparency in the way that they were using the IFMIS. To a large extent, the IFMIS has been abused. Therefore, a good review has to be made.

I support the Senator for Isiolo County for bringing this Statement Sen. (Dr.) Ali alluded to the fact that we already have an amendment Bill on the Public Finance Management (PFM) Act. However, for devolution to work, a thorough investigation of the IFMIS and any other system needs to be conducted. We many even need to involve more Senators in the Committee of the Whole to look into the issue of IFMIS and other systems within counties and sort it once and for all.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I thank you.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is a very important issue. I personally agree with my colleagues that IFMIS aids devolution in terms of accountability. The Statement by Sen. Dullo highlights some of the challenges which the national Government has been unable to address. The truth is that if you speak to some of our colleagues who work in the county governments, they will tell you that the national Government continues to run the counties through the IFMIS. The national Government decides when you can procure, pay people and so on. That is so unfortunate.

As the Members of the Committee on Finance and Budget, it will be extremely important for us to have a sit down with the representatives of the National Treasury and understand whether there are administrative gaps that make them fail to perform at optimum levels. I do not buy the notion that it is only when resources are available that they can allow the counties to procure and do many other things. This will present us with better opportunities for collaboration with the counties.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have always wondered why, as the Senator, I do not receive a copy of the transactions that are undertaken by my county government. I should be supplied with a statement of the IFMIS monthly or quarterly for me to know the programmes that are undertaken by my county. Being the lead oversight agent in the county, it is important for me to receive the financial reports. I believe that it will be a very good experience once we have this interaction to see the gaps that exist in the IFMIS.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I thank you.

The Statement is committed to the Committee on Finance and Budget.

Hon. Senators, I have a Communication to make.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, before I conclude with the Statement, I urge the remaining Standing Committees to make their reports relating to the activities of Committees pursuant to Standing Order No.51(1)(b) and as scheduled in the Order Paper.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I thank you and hereby lay the Statement on the Table of the Senate.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, before I conclude with the Statement, I urge the remaining Standing Committees to make their reports relating to the activities of Committees pursuant to Standing Order No.51(1)(b) and as scheduled in the Order Paper.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I thank you and hereby lay the Statement on the Table of the Senate.

Let us move on to the next Order. Sen. Cheruiyot, you may now proceed.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker Sir. I would like to formally withdraw this particular Bill having consulted with my co-sponsor; Sen. (Dr.) Mwaura. We had a discussion with the Committee and felt that there are certain things that we first needed to clear bearing in mind that the Committee was working on a Bill that is almost similar to this Bill. Therefore, I formally withdraw it.

The Speaker (Hon. Lusaka) : Hon. Senators, that is within the provisions of Standing Order No.154. I am satisfied with the withdrawal and I grant it.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, just allow me to quickly touch on the already withdrawn Bill because you have declared it withdrawn. I would like to confirm that Sen. (Dr.) Mwaura and Sen. Cheruiyot have been very cooperative. In the Committee that I chair, I have held very intensive public participation sessions on the Person with Disability Bill. Many of the stakeholders really felt that there has been a process which came up with a more comprehensive Bill that accords to the Constitution.

Our legal counsel has redrafted the Bill by both Sen. (Dr.) Mwaura and Sen. Cheruiyot. It shall come back, but still under their names. This is because Committees are not designed to curtail legislations, but to improve them. It is a Bill that had the widest stakeholder acceptance and Sen. (Dr.) Musuruve can confirm. We look forward to publishing it soon.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Asante, Bw. Spika. Nimesimama hapa kuambatana na Kifungu 87 cha Kanuni za Bunge kinachohusu matumizi ya lugha bungeni. Lugha za matumizi katika Bunge la Seneti ni Kiingereza, Kiswahili na lugha ya Ishara. Order Paper, yaani karatasi hii kwa Kiswahili, ni chombo muhimu katika utaratibu wa maelezo ya yale ambayo yatatokea katika Bunge na hutolewa kila siku, masaa 12 kabla ya Bunge kukaa. Kwa hivyo, ni muhimu pia iandikwe kwa Lugha ya Kiswahili. Inapochapishwa kwa Lugha ya Kiswahili itawawezesha Wakenya wengi kufuatilia kwa ukaribu mazungumzo yanayoendelea hapa katika Bunge na pia kuwafahamisha yale ambayo yanajiri hapa.

Bw. Spika, lugha ya Kiswahili ni lugha ambayo inakua. Kwa hivyo, tutapata fursa pia kuchangia katika kukua kwa Kiswahili na matumizi yake katika Bunge letu la Kenya na Wakenya kwa jumla. Nimefurahi kwamba wengi wa Maseneta wanaweza kuongea kwa Kiswahili sanifu. Leo tumeona mapema Seneta Maalumu, Sen. Omanga, akitoa mchango wake kwa Kiswahili bila shida yoyote.

Kutafusiriwa kwa Order Paper hii katika Lugha la Kiswahili kutasaidia pakubwa wananchi pale nje ambao wanataka kufuatilia shughuli za Bunge hii kwa utaratibu kabisa.

Asante, Mhe. Spika. Nataka kumwunga mkono Sen. Faki kwa hoja hiyo muhimu sana. Karatasi hii ya utaratibu ambayo tunafanya hapa Seneti ni muhimu kwetu sisi na pia pale nje. Kuna watu wengi ambao wanafuatilia mambo ambayo tunafanya hapa. Wanataka kujua tunazungumza juu ya nini na vile ambavyo lugha yenyewe imetukuzwa na inaweza kuzungumzwa hapa. Kwa hivyo, ni muhimu karatasi hii iandikwe katika lugha ambayo inaweleweka na wengi wa Wakenya pale nje.

Bw. Spika, ninamshukru sana kaka yangu kwa kuleta hoja hii. Ni muhimu kutafuta njia za kutekeleza mapendekezo haya.

Nakushukuru sana. Kulingana na Kaunti yako unayokilisha hapa, umejaribu sana.

Bw. Spika, hata mimi namunga mkono Seneta wa Mombasa kwa dhati. Ni kweli Katiba yetu imeorodhesha zile lugha ambazo za kutumika katika taifa letu; Kingereza, Kiswahili na pia lugha ya Ishara.

Ukitamaza runinga hapa Bungeni ama wale ambao wanafuatilia shughuli zetu kule nyumbani kupitia runinga, hatuna yule ambaye anatafsiri kwa lugha ya ishara. Tungeomba pia jambo hilo liangaliwe kwa makini ili Wakenya wengi waweze kufuatilia yale ambayo tunafanya katika Bunge. Hii ni kwa sababu tunawakilisha majimbo na wale ambao wako chini kabisa, itakuwa bora tukijaribu kuzungumza Kiswahili siku moja kwa wiki kwa saa moja. Tunaweza kuamua iwe ni Alhamisi kati ya 2.30 p.m. na 3.30 p.m. ili pia kuwe na uzoefu kwa viongozi wetu kutumia lugha ya Kiswahili.

Ninajua kuna wale ambao wako na changamoto, hasa wale ambao wanatoka karibu na Ziwa la Victoria. Wao husema Kiswahili, “Siyo mdomo chao”. Hata wanaisema vibaya lakini tunajua wakizaliwa wanaanza na Kiingereza. Hata watoto wao hulia kwa Kiingereza.

Asante, Bw. Spika, kwa kunipa nafasi hii. Kiswahili kimeleta shida. Ninamkosoa ndugu yangu kutoka Homa Bay. Sisi tunajua Katiba ya Kenya imetafsiriwa. Niko na Katiba ambayo imeandikwa kwa lugha ya Kiswahili. Nimemuona Kamishna wa Parliamentary Service Commission (PSC) , Beth Mugo hapa. Inafaa kutuekea bajeti ili Katiba ambazo zimetafsiri kwa lugha ya Kiswahili ziwekwe katika Bunge letu ili wale walio na uhodari wa kuzungumza au kusoma waweze kufanya hivyo. Kuzungumza ni rahisi lakini kusoma ni shida. Ndugu yangu Sen. Faki anasema amefurahi tunazungumza Kiswahili sanifu. Kiswahili ni cha kila mtu. Nilazima isisitizwe tuanze kutafsiri.

Ninashangaa kwamba katika maeneo ambayo tumetoka kule nyumbani, wakati bunge za kaunti zinafanya public participation, wanazungumza kizungu na kuandika sheria kwa kizungu. Kwa hivyo, hawafuatilii mipangilio ya bajeti na miswada ambayo inafanywa, kama vile, Isiolo, Makueni, Kakamega, Siaya, Kisumu na kwingineko ambako hawana uzoefu wa kuzungumza Kiswahili. Wanapenda Kiingereza kuliko Kiswahili.

Bw. Spika, inafaa tutafsiri Standing Orders kwa lugha ya Kiswahili. Katika talakilishi ambazo ziko mbele yetu, kutakuwa na orodha ya kazi ambayo tutaifanya kama vile Order Paper. Sen. M. Kajwang’ amesema, kwa umaarufu na umahiri tunauliza hoja iletwe ili tuweze kuiunga mkono na tupewe nafasi. Ninakumbuka utata wa ‘mzungumzishi’. Tupewe nafasi ya kuwa na Kamusi ili Sen. (Dr.) Zani akileta maneno ambayo ni ya kutubabaisha sisi ambao hatuzungumzi Kiswahil, tunaweza kumjibu kwa haraka.

Ninashangaa kwamba katika maeneo ambayo tumetoka kule nyumbani, wakati bunge za kaunti zinafanya public participation, wanazungumza kizungu na kuandika sheria kwa kizungu. Kwa hivyo, hawafuatilii mipangilio ya bajeti na miswada ambayo inafanywa, kama vile, Isiolo, Makueni, Kakamega, Siaya, Kisumu na kwingineko ambako hawana uzoefu wa kuzungumza Kiswahili. Wanapenda Kiingereza kuliko Kiswahili.

Bw. Spika, inafaa tutafsiri Standing Orders kwa lugha ya Kiswahili. Katika talakilishi ambazo ziko mbele yetu, kutakuwa na orodha ya kazi ambayo tutaifanya kama vile Order Paper. Sen. M. Kajwang’ amesema, kwa umaarufu na umahiri tunauliza hoja iletwe ili tuweze kuiunga mkono na tupewe nafasi. Ninakumbuka utata wa ‘mzungumzishi’. Tupewe nafasi ya kuwa na Kamusi ili Sen. (Dr.) Zani akileta maneno ambayo ni ya kutubabaisha sisi ambao hatuzungumzi Kiswahil, tunaweza kumjibu kwa haraka.

Kwa sababu tunaunga mkono hoja iletwe hapa, nitampa nafasi Sen. Cherargei atufungie kipindi hicho ili tuweze kuendelea.

Asante sana, Bw.Spika. Ningependa kuunga mkono ndugu yangu Seneta wa Mombasa 001 kwa kuleta Hoja hii. Katika Kipengele cha 7 cha Katiba ya Kenya kinasema kuwa Kingereza, Kiswahili na lugha ya ishara ni lugha za Bunge. Nakubaliana tuwe na taratibu ambayo imechapishwa kwa lugha ya Kiswahili na pia mfasiri wa ishara ili watu ambao hawawezi kusikia au kuzungumza waweza kupata nafasi ya kufuatilia yale ambayo yanajadiliwa katika Bunge la Seneti.

Ninaunga mkono Seneta wa Makueni ambaye ni gavana mtarajiwa. Ameanza kujipigia debe kwa kusema kuwa wakilishi wa wadi wahakikishe yale yote wanafanya yanaandikwe kwa lugha ya Kiswahili ambayo ni rahisi kwa wananchi kuelewa.

Sisi kama Seneti, lazima tuchukue hatua hii ili Wakenya wote wa tabaka mbalimbali ambao hawajapata nafasi kuelewa Kingereza wapate nafasi ya kufuatilia yale mambo ambayo tunajadiliana hapa na kuhakikisha wanayaelewa.

Wakati huu kuna mazungumzo ya kura ya maoni juu ya Katiba yetu hapa nchini. Ni vizuri Wakenya waweze kufuatilia mambo haya na kuyaelewa vilivyo. Jinsi ya kufanya hivyo ni kuhakikisha tumeiweka katika lugha inayoeleweka.

Bw. Spika, katika Umoja wa Kimataifa, kuna watu ambao wameanzisha changamoto ya kuweka Kiswahili kama baadhi ya lugha ambayo itatumika. Kwa hivyo, ni lazima sisi kama Seneti kutoa huo mfano na tuhakikishe tumesukuma gurudumu la kuhakikisha kila mtu amezungumza, kuandika na kuelewa Kiswahili hapa nchini.

Nawapa shukrani wote ambao wamechangia. Next Order.

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move- THAT, Clause 3 of the Bill be amended by inserting the following new paragraph immediately after paragraph (e) —

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move- THAT, Clause 4 of the Bill be amended in subclause (3) by inserting the following new paragraph immediately after paragraph (c) — (ca) gratuity; and (Question of the amendment proposed) The Temporary Chairperson (

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move- THAT the Bill be amended by deleting clause 16 and substituting therefor the following new clause— Remuneration of Trustees.

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I propose that my amendment be dropped because it is similar to the Committee’s amendment.

Division will be at the end. Clause 6

(Proposed amendment to Clause 17 by Sen. Farhiya dropped) Clause 18

The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Pareno): Proceed, Mover, Sen. Sakaja.

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move– THAT, Clause 18 of the Bill be amended by inserting the following new subclause immediately after subclause

(4)

—

(4a)

The chief executive officer shall hold office for a term of three years and may be eligible for re-appointment for a further final term of three years.

The Temporary Chairperson

(Sen. Pareno)

: The Division will be at the end. Clauses 19 and 20

Clauses 21 and 22

The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Pareno) : Proceed, Mover.

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move that Clause 21 and 22 be part of the Order Paper.

The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Pareno) : Kindly repeat what you have just said.

Division will be at the end. Clauses 11-16 (Question, that Clauses 11, 12, 13, 14, 15 and 16 be part of the Bill, proposed) The Temporary Chairperson (

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I propose that Clause 21 be part of the Bill.

The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Pareno) : Sen. Farhiya, kindly approach the Table.

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move- THAT the Bill be amended by deleting clause 16 and substituting therefor the following new clause— Remuneration of Trustees.

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I propose that my amendment be dropped because it is similar to the Committee’s amendment.

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move- THAT, Clause 22 of the Bill be amended in subclause

(1)

by inserting the following new paragraph immediately paragraph

(f)

-

(fa)

submit to the Board a report on a quarterly basis, of the reconciliations with respect to the funds held by the Custodian;

The Temporary Chairperson

(Sen. Pareno)

: The Division will be at the end. The Temporary Chairperson

(Sen. Pareno)

: Proceed, Sen. Sakaja. Clause 23

Sakaja: Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move- THAT, Clause 23 of the Bill be amended in subclause

(2)

by deleting the word “shall” appearing immediately after the word “administrator” and substituting therefore with the word “may”.

The Temporary Chairperson

(Sen. Pareno)

: The Division will be at the end.

Proceed, Mover, Sen. Sakaja.

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move– THAT, Clause 18 of the Bill be amended by inserting the following new subclause immediately after subclause (4) — (4a) The chief executive officer shall hold office for a term of three years and may be eligible for re-appointment for a further final term of three years. (Question of the amendment proposed) The Temporary Chairperson (

Madam Temporary Chairperson, Sen. Farhiya also has an amendment to Clause 24 on (2) and (3) , which we are also okay with.

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to withdraw my amendment Clause 24

(a)

because it is similar to the amendment by the Committee.

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I also beg to move-

THAT, Clause 24 of the Bill be amended -

Proceed, Mover.

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move that Clause 21 and 22 be part of the Order Paper. The Temporary Chairperson (

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move: THAT, Clause 46 of the Bill be amended in the introductory phrase in subclause (2) by inserting the word “actuary” immediately after the words “fund Manager.”

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move that Clauses 21 and 22 be part of the Bill. The Temporary Chairperson (

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move – THAT, Clause 48 of the Bill be amended in subclause

(1)

by deleting the words “two years” appearing immediately after the words “imprisonment for a term not exceeding” at the end of subclause and substituting therefor the words “five years.”

The Temporary Chairperson

(Sen. Pareno)

: The Division will be at the end. Proceed, Sen. Farhiya with the further amendment.

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move: THAT, Clause 48 of the Bill be further amended by inserting the following new subclause immediately after subclause (2) -

Clause 55

The Temporary Chairperson (

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to withdraw proposed amendment to Clause 23 so that it stays as it is.

The Temporary Chairperson

(Sen. Pareno)

: The proposed amendment is dropped.

New Clause 59

Madam, Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move- THAT the Bill be amended by inserting the following new Clause immediately after Clause 58— Amendment of Section 132 of Act No. 17 of 2012 The County Governments Act is amended by deleting section 132.

The Temporary Chairperson

(Sen. Pareno)

: Division will be at the end. The Schedule

Madam, Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move- THAT the Schedule is amended in paragraph 2 by deleting subparagraphs (1) and (2) and substituting therefor the following new subparagraphs—

The Division will be at the end. Clause 22

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move- THAT, Clause 22 of the Bill be amended in subclause (1) by inserting the following new paragraph immediately paragraph (f) - (fa) submit to the Board a report on a quarterly basis, of the reconciliations with respect to the funds held by the Custodian; (Question of the amendment proposed) The Temporary Chairperson (

Hon. Senators we are now reporting progress of the Committee of the Whole regarding The County Governments Retirement Scheme Bill (National Assembly Bill No. 10 of 2018) .

Proceed, Chairperson. The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Pareno) : Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to report progress that the Committee of the Whole has considered The County

The Division will be at the end. The Temporary Chairperson (

Governments Retirement Scheme Bill( National Assembly Bill No. 10 of 2018) and seeks leave to sit again tomorrow.

Proceed, Sen. Sakaja. Clause 23

Sakaja: Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move- THAT, Clause 23 of the Bill be amended in subclause (2) by deleting the word “shall” appearing immediately after the word “administrator” and substituting therefore with the word “may”. (Question of the amendment proposed) The Temporary Chairperson (

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I request Sen. Sakaja to second.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I second.

We now go back to Order No.7 which is Statements under part two under Standing Order No. 51 (1) P to be given by the Chairperson Standing Committee on Energy, Roads and transportation.

Madam Temporary Chairperson, Sen. Farhiya also has an amendment to Clause 24 on (2) and (3) , which we are also okay with.

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to withdraw my amendment Clause 24

(a)

because it is similar to the amendment by the Committee.

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I also beg to move-

THAT, Clause 24 of the Bill be amended -

one of us being called names, ridiculed and there was shouting. At the end of the day, that Mediation process failed. In that period, we also considered the Bill sponsored by Sen. Olekina on roads and pavements.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, regarding Statements, pursuant to Standing Order No.48(1), eight Statements were referred to the Committee during the period under review –

In West Pokot County, the Committee went on an assessment of county initiated road projects which were undertaken by the county government using funds availed through The Division of Revenue Act, County Allocation of Revenue Act and the Roads Maintenance Levy Fund.

While in West Pokot County, we inspected a road which we would call a virgin road since none existed before. We wanted to see what county governments are doing. We witnessed that the county government had taken an initiative to construct a completely new road with funds allocated to the county in an area hitherto without access. In our second visit, we will be seeking to see if this has been made a reality and if it has worked.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we visited Turkana County to inspect the status of ongoing projects such as Lodwar Airport, County Headquarters, roads under Kenya Rural Roads Authority (KeRRA), Kenya National Highways Authority (KeNHA), Kenya Urban Roads Authority (KURA) and those initiated by the County Government.

The quick highlight from this visit is the state of the Airport at Lodwar, which is pathetic and has no security. This Committee made recommendations and also issued instructions to enhance security, not only of the airport, but also the public. During active hours of the airport, young children have access to the airport, where they would even cross the runway when an aircraft is landing. Goats too graze inside the airport during active hours. Given the state of our national security, an airport cannot be without security and basic fencing facilities.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, of ultimate surprise was the fact that in Lodwar Airport, with a turnover of about 400 passengers daily, there is no working fire engine. There is no existence of a fire engine in the entire Turkana County, but more so, in the airport. How can an airport with 20 flights daily; 10 incoming and 10 outgoing and 400 passengers in a day, function without a fire engine? What would happen during a disaster? We gave instructions and were assured that there will be a fire engine in the next three months.

Lastly, we undertook a visit to Isiolo County to inspect of Isiolo International Airport. This was in furtherance and follow-up on the Statement requested by Sen. Halake regarding the state of the airport. Further, the Committee scheduled a meeting with the Cabinet Secretary (CS) for Transport, Infrastructure, Housing, Urban Development and Public Works.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the highlight on Isiolo Airport is that the Government has injected close to Kshs3 billion into the construction of that airport as of now. The best definition that would be given to the airport as of now is that it is a white elephant project. For a period of almost seven months, between January and July, the airport is reported to have serviced a mere 98 passengers. This is an international airport with a runway that cannot accommodate flights that are intended for its magnitude. There are several other issues too, including the cost of Kshs900 million to build a runway that cannot be functional right now, having barely been used.

Those issues were addressed by the Committee and we have got assurance from the relevant stakeholders. The Kenya Airports Authority (KAA) and the Ministry assured

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move that – THAT, Clause 44 of the Bill be amended by deleting subclause (1) and substituting therefor the following new subclause-

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move: THAT, Clause 46 of the Bill be amended in the introductory phrase in subclause (2) by inserting the word “actuary” immediately after the words “fund Manager.”

What is your point of order, Sen.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. There is something extremely significant that the Chairperson of the Committee on Roads and Transportation has raised in his Statement. Allow me to also congratulate him for that detailed Statement. It is just a few hours ago that I saw him standing next to Baba and the President somewhere in Ruiru. It shows his commitment to his parliamentary duties that he had to leave the high table to come back here and serve the people of Kiambu County. I hope the House shall note that even as we make our comments.

The Division will be at the end. Clause 47

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move – THAT, Clause 48 of the Bill be amended in subclause (1) by deleting the words “two years” appearing immediately after the words “imprisonment for a term not exceeding” at the end of subclause and substituting therefor the words “five years.” (Question of the amendment proposed) The Temporary Chairperson (

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I hate to interrupt my good friend and Chairperson, Sen. M. Kajwang'. Does it mean that sitting with Hon. Raila and President Uhuru at the high table is more than the mandate that Kenyans gave us, as the Senate? I thought that this is the higher calling. Could he substantiate? Is it because Baba was present in that meeting or President Uhuru was there? From my understanding, he means that being in the Senate is the lower table. He should substantiate that.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the Senator for Nandi behaves the way old women behave when bones are mentioned in a proverb. I did not even call the name of Raila in my earlier statements; I talked of baba. For his information, the Governor for Kiambu is officially called Baba Yao. I was, therefore, probably referring to the Governor for Kiambu.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir---

Clause 55

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move- THAT, Clause 55 of the Bill be amended by inserting the following new subclauses immediately after subclause (6) —

Roads Bill came. We had hoped that this Bill was going to sort out all these inconsistencies and anxieties that had been there in the roads sector.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, if The Kenya Roads Bill discussions around mediation have collapsed, what directions should counties take? Should they go back to the earlier Motion that was passed by this House? Should they start dealing with categories D going downwards? Further, could the Chair also tell us if the new classification scheme that this house rejected – I was in the Committee on Roads and Transportation in the last Parliament and I remember we rejected that new classification scheme - is in place and being enforced by the national Government?

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I have heard the distinguished Senator for Kiambu County – who has the most votes in this country - Sen. Wamatangi. He was hosting a high delegation today when they were launching one of the Presidents’ Big Four Agenda, which is manufacturing. I have only two comments.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I appreciate the report and challenges that the Committee on Roads and Transportation have brought. I thank Sen. Wamatangi for being very steadfast because I know that chairing such a committee is not easy. We were together in the Kenya Roads Bill Mediation, and he stood his ground. I applaud him for protecting the Senate at that point. I know that he has been protecting the interest of Kiambu residents. We are proud of him as the Chair of the Committee on Roads and Transportation.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, there are only two things as a follow up for me. In Nandi County, there is a contractor by the name Civicon Limited, who was given around five roads. I would wish the Chair to follow up with the relevant authorities, be it the Kenya Urban and Roads Authority (KURA) , the Kenya National Highway Authority (KeNHA) , or the Ministry of Transport, Infrastructure, Housing & Urban Development. There are around five roads that were given to Civicon Limited, which were later reassigned to China Number 10. Those roads are as follows; Lessos to Kesses, Nandi Hills Town to Himaki; Cheptiret to Moi University, Rivatex to Kapkatembu, Chepterwai Singilet to Kaiboi, and the one from Chemuswa all the way to Denja. Those roads were reassigned, but up to today, the company that was reassigned those roads has never worked on them.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I would request the Chair through you – who is engaging in animated conversation with the Temporary Speaker, Sen. Pareno – to follow up on the five roads that I have mentioned.

Out of the five or six roads that I have mentioned in Nandi, nothing is going on, yet money was allocated, and the contracts were reassigned to China Number 10. I request the Chair – because he is a very frequent visitor of Nandi and he knows Nandi County very well – to follow up on those five roads. The rainy season is ongoing, but we want those contractors to proceed. This is not a unique case to Nandi County. Go to any other county, roads were allocated, contractors were identified, and up to today, those roads being upgraded to bitumen standards has never been done.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I humbly request the Chair for the Committee on Roads and Transportation to assist. He should be part of ensuring that upgrading most of the roads in Nandi County to bitumen standards is done. I believe in his Committee. I hope that he will visit those sites, so that he can verify that there is no work going on in the five roads that were earmarked for upgrade to bitumen standards in Nandi County.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I congratulate the Chair of Committee on Roads and Transportation for a job well done. After this, I might decide to buy him coffee.

Madam, Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move- THAT the Bill be amended by inserting the following new Clause immediately after Clause 58— Amendment of Section 132 of Act No. 17 of 2012 The County Governments Act is amended by deleting section 132. (Question of the New Clause 59 proposed) (New Clause 59 read the First Time) (Question, that the New Clause 59 be read a Second Time, proposed) (Question, that the New Clause 59 be part of the Bill proposed) The Temporary Chairperson (

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

What is it, Sen. Farhiya?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I was a bit disturbed by the comment made by Chair of the CPAIC, that Sen. Cherargei is behaving like an old woman. What is wrong with an old woman who has aged gracefully? Let us not use unparliamentarily language in this House. Can he apologize and withdraw?

Proceed, Sen. Dullo.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Let me take this opportunity to thank the Chair of the Committee on Roads and Transportation for that wonderful report. I wish that after visiting those counties, more so Isiolo County, they would come up with recommendations that will solve the challenges we have on the ground. They should also make sure that the recommendations are implemented by the relevant departments of the Ministry.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we have a lot of problems in the counties, where you will see that the roads that are being constructed by the national Government are being claimed by the county government, simply because the signboards are not there. That has created a lot of confusion in the counties. I would, therefore, request the Chair of the Committee to advise the relevant departments of transport to put up signboards to indicate that this particular project is being carried out by the national Government and not the County government.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to report progress that the Committee of the Whole has considered The County

Governments Retirement Scheme Bill( National Assembly Bill No. 10 of 2018) and seeks leave to sit again tomorrow.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I beg to move that the House do agree with the Committee in the said Report.

Is the Motion seconded? You request a Senator to second.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I request Sen. Sakaja to second.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I second.

We now go back to Order No.7 which is Statements under part two under Standing Order No. 51 (1) P to be given by the Chairperson Standing Committee on Energy, Roads and transportation.

It seems that you are not ready. I will now give this chance to Sen. Ochillo-Ayacko. He has already placed his request.

one of us being called names, ridiculed and there was shouting. At the end of the day, that Mediation process failed. In that period, we also considered the Bill sponsored by Sen. Olekina on roads and pavements.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, regarding Statements, pursuant to Standing Order No.48(1), eight Statements were referred to the Committee during the period under review –

In West Pokot County, the Committee went on an assessment of county initiated road projects which were undertaken by the county government using funds availed through The Division of Revenue Act, County Allocation of Revenue Act and the Roads Maintenance Levy Fund.

While in West Pokot County, we inspected a road which we would call a virgin road since none existed before. We wanted to see what county governments are doing. We witnessed that the county government had taken an initiative to construct a completely new road with funds allocated to the county in an area hitherto without access. In our second visit, we will be seeking to see if this has been made a reality and if it has worked.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we visited Turkana County to inspect the status of ongoing projects such as Lodwar Airport, County Headquarters, roads under Kenya Rural Roads Authority (KeRRA), Kenya National Highways Authority (KeNHA), Kenya Urban Roads Authority (KURA) and those initiated by the County Government.

The quick highlight from this visit is the state of the Airport at Lodwar, which is pathetic and has no security. This Committee made recommendations and also issued instructions to enhance security, not only of the airport, but also the public. During active hours of the airport, young children have access to the airport, where they would even cross the runway when an aircraft is landing. Goats too graze inside the airport during active hours. Given the state of our national security, an airport cannot be without security and basic fencing facilities.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, of ultimate surprise was the fact that in Lodwar Airport, with a turnover of about 400 passengers daily, there is no working fire engine. There is no existence of a fire engine in the entire Turkana County, but more so, in the airport. How can an airport with 20 flights daily; 10 incoming and 10 outgoing and 400 passengers in a day, function without a fire engine? What would happen during a disaster? We gave instructions and were assured that there will be a fire engine in the next three months.

Lastly, we undertook a visit to Isiolo County to inspect of Isiolo International Airport. This was in furtherance and follow-up on the Statement requested by Sen. Halake regarding the state of the airport. Further, the Committee scheduled a meeting with the Cabinet Secretary (CS) for Transport, Infrastructure, Housing, Urban Development and Public Works.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the highlight on Isiolo Airport is that the Government has injected close to Kshs3 billion into the construction of that airport as of now. The best definition that would be given to the airport as of now is that it is a white elephant project. For a period of almost seven months, between January and July, the airport is reported to have serviced a mere 98 passengers. This is an international airport with a runway that cannot accommodate flights that are intended for its magnitude. There are several other issues too, including the cost of Kshs900 million to build a runway that cannot be functional right now, having barely been used.

Those issues were addressed by the Committee and we have got assurance from the relevant stakeholders. The Kenya Airports Authority (KAA) and the Ministry assured

us that work is being done. We are in receipt of a budget in which they intend to address those issues.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, during the period under review, the Committee encountered various challenges, to a large extent compromising its operational efficiency and performance. Part of those challenges are-

primary oversight and ensure they protect the public resources that were entrusted to them.

Somebody somewhere has stolen their cement, sand, iron sheets and Kshs200 million, plus and Kshs13 million that was meant for the bursary. According to the recommendations of the ad hoc Committee of Nandi County Assembly, the relevant investigative authorities like DPP, DCI and Ethics Anti-Corruption Commission (EAC), must move in with speed. They have recommended that a lifestyle audit must be done for the Governor and other senior Government officials as soon as possible so that justice can be done for the people of Nandi County.

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for giving me an opportunity to speak to this Motion. You also had intended to move a Motion proposing an amendment to this Report. I will go by your guidance whether to move that first because I would wish the amendment to be dealt with, then we look at the substantive Motion.

The proposed amendment is not connected with the substance of this Motion and its effect would be to amend the Standing Orders through the Motion. The Standing Orders have a provision for the amendments. Therefore, your amendment is declined.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Let me then talk to the main Motion that is before this House. The CPAIC of the Senate is a very important Committee. I must appreciate the fact that this Committee has done a commendable job. It has worked tirelessly to ensure that a modicum of accountability is realized within the mandate of our august House; the Senate.

Oversight is one of our constitutional and primary functions and we must carry it out. If we do not carry out oversight, we as a House risk the possibility of being relegated to a vestige, irrelevance and a mere talk shop.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I take this opportunity to tremendously commend, with a lot of humility, the good work that my neighbor, Sen. M. Kajwang, has done as the Chairperson of this Committee. I also commend the good teamwork that has been exhibited by the exemplary contribution made in coming up with this report by the Members of the Committee.

On my own behalf, I appreciate the cooperation and the extent to which it happens by those who appeared before this Committee. If those people did not appear before this Committee, there would have been nothing to discuss. I commend them for complying with what the law stipulates and for appearing before the distinguished County Public Accounts and Investment Committee to try and account and respond to issues that were brought before the Committee.

I also must commend you, as the Speaker of the House, for supporting this Committee. In my understanding, this is the most important Committee.

Lately, you have heard some characters say that the Senate is not doing its rightful work. Those characters evaluate the work of the Senate on the basis that the Senate does not prevent the runaway graft, governance issues and malfeasance in counties. They

What is it, Sen. Cherargei?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I hate to interrupt my good friend and Chairperson, Sen. M. Kajwang'. Does it mean that sitting with Hon. Raila and President Uhuru at the high table is more than the mandate that Kenyans gave us, as the Senate? I thought that this is the higher calling. Could he substantiate? Is it because Baba was present in that meeting or President Uhuru was there? From my understanding, he means that being in the Senate is the lower table. He should substantiate that.

that our County Public Accounts and Investment Committee did not get sufficient time to look at public accounts and audits in relation to those areas.

The officers, in violation did not come face to face to explain what they were doing before the Senate. This is something that has been happening because we have not given capacity and resources to our County Public Accounts and Investment Committee. It has allowed the accounting officials in counties the pleasure of misusing public money knowing that they will not be made to account for the same amount of money before the County Public Accounts and Investment Committee.

That has led to the proposition that informed the suggestion that there is need to amend our Standing Orders to expand the Membership of this important Committee. It would have sub committees which would address some of those thematic areas of audit and oversight. That way, we will be in tandem and comprehensive in terms of holding institutions to account for the public funds that we give them.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we know well that there is wastage. In order for this wastage to be stopped, the people responsible must visit this House and seriously be given an opportunity to be heard on why this wastage has been going on year in, year out.

I have looked at the audit queries that arise in my county. Every year, the Committees of that assembly leave the assembly claiming to go somewhere to write reports.

Although they leave the assembly to go to other places to write reports, when the Auditor General invites them to present records that they were involved in such activities, those records are not available. When they avail some skeleton records, those records indicate that not everybody attended, yet money was taken out in cash to give presumably the ghost attendees.

If we, as a House, are relying on the county assemblies to carry out some primary oversight on the county governments, but they are carrying out their business as if they are criminal enterprises, we would be failing in our responsibility. That is if we do not give time and attention to some of the practices that are prevalent in the county assemblies, so that members can come before the distinguished Committee chaired by my good friend, Sen. M. Kajwang,’ and explain why they are involved in graft. They should explain why they allow graft, yet they are the one who should be leading by example and also ensuring that they follow the law.

If they do not follow the law as the county assemblies, it would be very difficult for them even to discuss the conduct of the county executive committee members. It would also be difficult for them to hold to account county officials, such as the county public service boards and other organisations within the county that are supposed to account directly to them. It is, therefore, important that we get to this and ensure we have comprehensive and timely audit, and also have a follow-up mechanism to ensure that counties are not involved in repeated violation of the laws and regulations, in so far as handling public finances is concerned.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I wish to commend the Senate CPAIC for doing a good job. I am relatively new to the Senate, but had the pleasure and opportunity to participate in the proceedings of this Committee when they invited my governor. My

Order, hon. Members! Order! Sen. M. Kajwang’ is on a point of order; so, I will not give any other point of order.

Proceed.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for protecting me. I just wanted the Chair to help us understand the way forward, now that there is an impasse on The Kenya Roads Bill.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, a few years ago in this Senate, we passed a resolution pending substantive passage of an Act of Parliament to deal with the roads sector. We passed a resolution that roads classified as Class A, B and C would be for the national Government while Classes D and below would then be managed by county governments and funds would follow. However, a year later, the national Government failed to implement that Motion that had been adopted by the House.

Consequently, the relevant Ministry came up with a fresh classification scheme through which they attempted to reclassify roads so that national Government would remain with more kilometres of roads at the expense of counties. A year later, The Kenya

Roads Bill came. We had hoped that this Bill was going to sort out all these inconsistencies and anxieties that had been there in the roads sector.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, if The Kenya Roads Bill discussions around mediation have collapsed, what directions should counties take? Should they go back to the earlier Motion that was passed by this House? Should they start dealing with categories D going downwards? Further, could the Chair also tell us if the new classification scheme that this house rejected – I was in the Committee on Roads and Transportation in the last Parliament and I remember we rejected that new classification scheme - is in place and being enforced by the national Government?

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I have heard the distinguished Senator for Kiambu County – who has the most votes in this country - Sen. Wamatangi. He was hosting a high delegation today when they were launching one of the Presidents’ Big Four Agenda, which is manufacturing. I have only two comments.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I appreciate the report and challenges that the Committee on Roads and Transportation have brought. I thank Sen. Wamatangi for being very steadfast because I know that chairing such a committee is not easy. We were together in the Kenya Roads Bill Mediation, and he stood his ground. I applaud him for protecting the Senate at that point. I know that he has been protecting the interest of Kiambu residents. We are proud of him as the Chair of the Committee on Roads and Transportation.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, there are only two things as a follow up for me. In Nandi County, there is a contractor by the name Civicon Limited, who was given around five roads. I would wish the Chair to follow up with the relevant authorities, be it the Kenya Urban and Roads Authority (KURA) , the Kenya National Highway Authority (KeNHA) , or the Ministry of Transport, Infrastructure, Housing & Urban Development. There are around five roads that were given to Civicon Limited, which were later reassigned to China Number 10. Those roads are as follows; Lessos to Kesses, Nandi Hills Town to Himaki; Cheptiret to Moi University, Rivatex to Kapkatembu, Chepterwai Singilet to Kaiboi, and the one from Chemuswa all the way to Denja. Those roads were reassigned, but up to today, the company that was reassigned those roads has never worked on them.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I would request the Chair through you – who is engaging in animated conversation with the Temporary Speaker, Sen. Pareno – to follow up on the five roads that I have mentioned.

Out of the five or six roads that I have mentioned in Nandi, nothing is going on, yet money was allocated, and the contracts were reassigned to China Number 10. I request the Chair – because he is a very frequent visitor of Nandi and he knows Nandi County very well – to follow up on those five roads. The rainy season is ongoing, but we want those contractors to proceed. This is not a unique case to Nandi County. Go to any other county, roads were allocated, contractors were identified, and up to today, those roads being upgraded to bitumen standards has never been done.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I humbly request the Chair for the Committee on Roads and Transportation to assist. He should be part of ensuring that upgrading most of the roads in Nandi County to bitumen standards is done. I believe in his Committee. I hope that he will visit those sites, so that he can verify that there is no work going on in the five roads that were earmarked for upgrade to bitumen standards in Nandi County.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I congratulate the Chair of Committee on Roads and Transportation for a job well done. After this, I might decide to buy him coffee.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I wish to take this opportunity to thank---

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

there is legislation on internal audit within counties but the counties are not implementing that legislation. Having internal auditors in the counties is not good enough. We should have a committee that is independent of the governor to look at the reports produced by the county government. That committee can take their report to the Members of the County Assembly or they can even work with the Auditor General. In accounting standards, auditors can rely on the report of the internal auditors.

The Controller of Budget should play a greater role as compared to what she is doing at the moment. If the Controller of Budget is the one who approves all the expenses, why are we being told that money has been withdrawn from the Exchequer to make irregular payments? How does that arise? The governors are running the county governments like their own shops. They take what they want whenever they please. This House must pronounce itself in order to protect devolution.

The National Assembly recently said that counties squander money, hence they should not be given money. If that squandering continues, people will look at the county governments differently. The Committee that is supposed to oversight county public accounts and investments should be vigilant if we are to take care of the counties and their government.

I am happy that the High Court has pronounced that the governors should stay out of office when they are charged. That is a game changer because they interfere with evidence if they continue staying in office. Accountants and auditors are trained the same way and that makes it difficult for the auditors to catch them because the accountant knows what the auditor is looking for.

An accountant can hide evidence and they can produce all the documents required by the auditors which make it difficult for the auditors to detect anything. Therefore, the Auditor General should have a different approach. Instead of looking at the documents, the Auditor General should check the projects. If the governor says that they have built a particular hospital, the auditors should verify that fact by visiting the site. Verifying the projects alone is not enough. The auditors should go a step further and get the satellite coordinates of those projects to avoid duplication. If we do not put such kind of measures in place, we will be doing a disservice to the county governments.

I support this Report and I urge this Committee to be steadfast in ensuring that corrupt governors do not get away with their acts. As Senators, we are paid by tax-payers and we swore to respect the rule of law and we should make sure that governors also respect the rule of law. If time allows us, I will explain how wages have been skyrocketing yet there is a legislation that caps the wage bill. The governors continue to violate those laws and we are doing nothing about it. This House must pronounce itself so as to protect the Wanjikus, Halimas, Onyangos and all Kenyans. We have to ensure that the counties deliver to the citizens. Money sent to the counties is supposed to be used for the good of mwananchi and not for hiring choppers. We must have value for money in our counties. A lot more needs to be done for us to have accountable governments in our counties.

Thank you.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I was a bit disturbed by the comment made by Chair of the CPAIC, that Sen. Cherargei is behaving like an old woman. What is wrong with an old woman who has aged gracefully? Let us not use unparliamentarily language in this House. Can he apologize and withdraw?

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I would like to thank all the Members of the Senate, who have contributed to this Motion. I know there are very many others who would have wished to contribute, but because of the timing and the pressure of other business in the House, they have not had an opportunity to comment.

I have taken note of all the suggestions made by the Senators, and as I mentioned when I was moving this Motion yesterday, this is the very first fiduciary risk report that this Senate has done. I mentioned that it might not be perfect, but from the comments that have come from Members I can see very many ways in which we can improve this Report going forward.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, that Report has also illustrated something around improvement in the opinion of the Auditor-General on counties. In the first three years, most of the counties had adverse opinions and disclaimer of opinion. However, we have seen in subsequent years, particularly, in 2017/2018 - even though it is outside the scope of that report - that at least we have two counties with unqualified opinions and more counties with qualified opinions.

I am a believer that things are going to get better when the scrutiny by Senate and county assemblies becomes more stringent.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we must go or look ahead and ask ourselves whether, as a House, we want to deal purely with financial audit reports or performance audit reports. We have had a conversation with the Auditor-General that in future, this House, probably should be looking at performance audits and county assemblies be looking at financial audits.

We must come up with guidelines as a House that will draw a line between the role of Senate and county assemblies as far as oversight is concerned. I believe that Senate ought to look at consolidated financials coming from counties. There is a provision in the Public Finance Management (PFM) Act, that the Auditor-General shall present a report on the consolidated financials. Consolidated would mean the Executive, the Assembly and all corporations and funds established in the county. This will ensure that the Senate focuses on value for money and special audits while county assemblies could look at the specific fund accounts, specific county corporations and the audit reports for the executive.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I would also like to mention that in the recent past, we have celebrated certain court rulings but there are others that have had the effect of shuttling county assemblies. For example, many assemblies are incapable of concluding the process of impeachment of County Executive Committee (CEC) members, thanks to a court ruling that then placed the decision of the assembly at the whims and mercy of Governors. If county assemblies cannot deal with CECs, who are involved in all sorts of misadventures, then it clips their role in oversight.

County assemblies cannot summon Governors. Sometimes we blame county assemblies for not calling Governors before them; but it is as a result of court rulings that Governors can only appear before the Senate. It is only CECs and CEOs who appear

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Let me take this opportunity to thank the Chair of the Committee on Roads and Transportation for that wonderful report. I wish that after visiting those counties, more so Isiolo County, they would come up with recommendations that will solve the challenges we have on the ground. They should also make sure that the recommendations are implemented by the relevant departments of the Ministry.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we have a lot of problems in the counties, where you will see that the roads that are being constructed by the national Government are being claimed by the county government, simply because the signboards are not there. That has created a lot of confusion in the counties. I would, therefore, request the Chair of the Committee to advise the relevant departments of transport to put up signboards to indicate that this particular project is being carried out by the national Government and not the County government.

Thank you, Sen. M. Kajwang. I defer the putting of the question to 31st July, 2019.

Next Order.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity to support the statement made by the Chair of the Committee on Roads and Transportation. This Committee plays a vital role in many senses. In terms of the economic sense, without proper roads, it will become impossible for some counties to do business with other counties. Therefore, when it comes to issues of accessibility, this Committee comes in handy.

Roads also have social benefits. With viable infrastructure, people can set up factories in their counties. Consequently, when investments are in place, they will create employment opportunities for the youth.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, roads also bring benefits to the education sector. This is because investors who would want to invest in education will look for places which are accessible. If they are not accessible, nobody will build schools and colleges for our people.

When this Committee talks of accessibility of roads in the counties, they have to make sure that what they are talking about is practical. The roads in some counties are inaccessible. This Committee needs to pursue that at the county level. In some areas when it rains, people are unable to drive to their homes. I was once a victim. The residents informed me that my road was inaccessible. The counties should ensure that the roads are accessible, so as to encourage many activities in the counties.

People should not move from the rural areas to the urban areas because of good roads, investment and employment opportunities. Accessible roads make it easy to retain people in the remote areas. Those people can farm and take their crops to the outside world.

This Committee is doing a commendable job, but it should ensure that their services reach Kenyans at the county level. Enough money should be allocated for roads and transport so as to ensure accessibility for the local people, especially the farmers. Most places are inaccessible because of poor roads and the farmers in those areas are left with no option other than feeding the cows with their produce.

In Maragoli, for example, people plant a lot of avocadoes. We all know that avocadoes are very expensive in towns. However, if you go to Maragoli, you will buy a whole basket of avocado that has around 100 them at a cost Kshs50. They sell them cheaply because they are unable to access the outside world. Good roads benefit farmers. Therefore, let us construct good roads to open up our counties.

This construction of roads in counties must be done in a transparent manner. Some of the roads constructed in the counties become impassable when it rains. This Committee must ensure our roads are tarmacked and durable. It should also make sure that all county roads are motorable.

Sen. Wamatangi should press on with this task. Going to all corners of this country may not be easy, but he should do the best that he can in serving the citizens of this country.

Next Order.

Chairperson, do note the concerns that the Hon. Members have raised for further action.

Service for efficient and effective service delivery at both levels of Government; NOTING THAT, the implementation timelines for the CARPS programme of two years specifically with regard to the capacity assessment, workload analysis and staff redeployment and transfers, are of paramount importance in the Counties as the terms of all second term County Governors come to a close in 2022; CONCERNED THAT, County governments are still engaged in uncontrolled hiring of staff in total violation of applicable laws, exposing a glaring imbalance between money spent on recurrent expenditure, versus budgets for development projects which are the essence of devolution; CONCERNED FURTHER THAT, contrary to Section 15(2) (b) of the Public Finance Management (PFM) Act, in counties such as Nairobi, Machakos, Garissa, Kisumu, Wajir, Baringo, Narok, Nakuru and Nyamira, staff salaries consumed in excess of 75 per cent of total expenditure, over and above the set limit of 35 per cent as provided in Regulation 25 (1) of the Public Finance Management (County Governments) Regulations, 2015 during the FY 2018/2019; DEEPLY CONCERNED THAT, although Section 65 of the County Governments Act requires that more than 30 per cent of the vacancies at entry level be given to members of ethnic groups that are not dominant in their precincts, the 2016 Ethnic and Diversity audit launched by the National Cohesion and Integration Commission revealed that 68 per cent of Counties have hired more than 70 per cent of their staff from one ethnic group; NOW THEREFORE in exercise of its oversight function, the resolves that the Public Service Commission (PSC), Intergovernmental Relations Technical Committee (IGTRC) and the Council of Governors provide a comprehensive report on:

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Let me start from where Sen. M. Kajwang left it when he said that the CARPS report should help us to

Mr. Temporary Speaker Sir, can I proceed? Okay, thank you. I want to thank Sen. M. Kajwang’ for the Fiduciary Risk Report on audit issues by County Governments for the Financial Years 2012/13 to 2015/16. The Report is very detailed. I thank the Senator for Homa Bay County and the next Governor for this meticulous Report. We celebrate him as a Chairperson. Sen. M. Kajwang’ is very efficient and Senators respect him because of that.

I have attended some sessions that he has chaired and I liked the way he conducted them. I know that he will move the prudent use of resources in this country to the next level. As he goes for the big seat, Governor of Homa Bay County, he has our blessings. I will ensure that there is timely disbursement of resources to his county because some of us will be in the Government.

The issues that I have been raising here are the same issues affecting our counties. The issues raised here are the same issues being faced by the second generation of governors. We must try and fix all these issues. The problems in this Report are the same things that we have been discussing. They are own source revenue, reallocation of resources, pending bills, wage bill, collection of tax, missing tax targets and funding of Council of Governors operations. President Uhuru Kenyatta spoke a few hours ago and he said that there is no money though we want more money for the counties.

This Report has raised critical issues. I will run through my contribution because my colleagues would also want to debate on this Motion. The major problem in the counties is reallocation of funds by the county governments which is unfortunate. Nandi County Assembly adopted a report in April that indicated a misappropriation of about Kshs13 million that was meant for bursary. When the CEC in charge of Finance was

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for allowing me to second. I thank my sister, Sen. (Dr.) Zani, for picking this topic. I ended up seconding her because I was also thinking of the same Motion. When I went to the Director, they told me that she was doing the same thing, and I approached her in order to contribute to this issue.

First of all, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, people are recruited within the counties. I am talking about the counties like mine, which did not inherit a huge wage bill. They then County Council had not employed so many people. Therefore, some counties were blessed to have inherited less staff. However, the governors then came and recruited more staff.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, there are certain criteria required by law in terms of selecting for the appointment by the County Public Service Board (CPSC) . These include the standards, values and principles of a candidate as set out in Articles 10, 27, 56 (c) and 232 (1) of the Constitution. It also prescribes the qualification for holding or acting in an office, which include experience and achievement attained by the candidate. It also includes the conduct of the candidate in view of the relevant conduct, ethics and integrity.

Given all that, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, some counties have recruited people, and I am assuming that they used those criteria. They may have been within the threshold or sometimes less than 25 per cent. Then another Governor comes in and recruits to an unimaginable level, which I will read later on. I did further analysis using data from the Controller of Budget (CoB) to come up with very scary statistics. If you do not take care of some of these things properly--- The law requires that a maximum of 35 per cent of the money should be used for staff. It also requires that at least 30 per cent of the money should be used in development. Needless to say, the remaining 35 per cent is for service delivery; for example, to ensure that there is medicine and medical services in hospitals. In terms of agriculture, you have to provide seeds and the outreach services by the technical people to advice farmers. There are many other things there, as outlined in the Fourth Schedule of the Constitution.

In terms of projects, there is need for value for money. Most governors recruit people just for those people to sit idle in the offices. The Controller of Budget audit report shows that Wajir County’s wage bill is at 65.14 per cent of the budget. How will they deliver services or do any development project? The 65 per cent in Wajir County is only taking care of 35 per cent. How is that logical? It is very illogical and I do not want to believe that the county lacks people who can do the analysis that I am doing at the

moment. That is because they have competent people who can do this analysis but they are ignored.

We can understand the governors who found the defunct county governments and inherited a big wage bill but what about those who inherited a clean bill? There are some counties that were at the 35 per cent threshold with the previous governors, but things have now changed. In Turkana, Siaya and Makueni counties, the governors have not changed but their wage bill has increased by 10 per cent and above. Some new governors have taken their counties to a different level though they have not reduced drastically.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, there is a Swahili saying that goes; kidogo kidogo hujaza kibaba which means that one just needs to take a little step but in the end, they will see a difference in the counties. Tharaka Nithi County has reduced its wage bill by

primary oversight and ensure they protect the public resources that were entrusted to them.

Somebody somewhere has stolen their cement, sand, iron sheets and Kshs200 million, plus and Kshs13 million that was meant for the bursary. According to the recommendations of the ad hoc Committee of Nandi County Assembly, the relevant investigative authorities like DPP, DCI and Ethics Anti-Corruption Commission (EAC), must move in with speed. They have recommended that a lifestyle audit must be done for the Governor and other senior Government officials as soon as possible so that justice can be done for the people of Nandi County.

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for giving me an opportunity to speak to this Motion. You also had intended to move a Motion proposing an amendment to this Report. I will go by your guidance whether to move that first because I would wish the amendment to be dealt with, then we look at the substantive Motion.

The proposed amendment is not connected with the substance of this Motion and its effect would be to amend the Standing Orders through the Motion. The Standing Orders have a provision for the amendments. Therefore, your amendment is declined.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Let me then talk to the main Motion that is before this House. The CPAIC of the Senate is a very important Committee. I must appreciate the fact that this Committee has done a commendable job. It has worked tirelessly to ensure that a modicum of accountability is realized within the mandate of our august House; the Senate.

Oversight is one of our constitutional and primary functions and we must carry it out. If we do not carry out oversight, we as a House risk the possibility of being relegated to a vestige, irrelevance and a mere talk shop.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I take this opportunity to tremendously commend, with a lot of humility, the good work that my neighbor, Sen. M. Kajwang, has done as the Chairperson of this Committee. I also commend the good teamwork that has been exhibited by the exemplary contribution made in coming up with this report by the Members of the Committee.

On my own behalf, I appreciate the cooperation and the extent to which it happens by those who appeared before this Committee. If those people did not appear before this Committee, there would have been nothing to discuss. I commend them for complying with what the law stipulates and for appearing before the distinguished County Public Accounts and Investment Committee to try and account and respond to issues that were brought before the Committee.

I also must commend you, as the Speaker of the House, for supporting this Committee. In my understanding, this is the most important Committee.

Lately, you have heard some characters say that the Senate is not doing its rightful work. Those characters evaluate the work of the Senate on the basis that the Senate does not prevent the runaway graft, governance issues and malfeasance in counties. They

rightly do so because year in, year out, the Auditor-General captures the same issues that are supposed to have stopped. Oversight, in my understanding is effective when supreme audit institutions do not capture repeat offences that are done by those that are being oversighted.

If you look at the period in question, that is 2013 to 2016, you will find that it reads the same way every year. It reads about irregularities done by all the counties. It is as if all these governors went to the same school, were taught by the same teachers and were choreographed to carry the malfeasance in the same manner the same year. They seem to think that no action would be taken against them. So, when other evaluators of the performance of the Senate say that the Senate does not work, it is because these violations are captured year in, year out.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, having said that, I am happy that through our Committee, we have captured some of these things for the years 2013 to 2016. However, this report indicates certain limitations that need to be addressed. One of the limitations that I have captured in this report is that, it has come so late in the day. Financial Year 2013/2014 passed and nothing happened. The same applies for financial years 2015/2016, 2016/2017. We are now discussing violations that were done in 2018.

I do not fault the Committee that has done this good work. However, we must admit that the scope and intensity of coverage has suffered certain limitations. May be, it is because of factors that are not contained in this report. My understanding and suspicion is that County Public Accounts and Investment Committee has been overwhelmed. We have 47 counties and there is a limitation in terms of its membership and personnel who are supposed to assist the Committee. If the Committee had an enlarged membership and more support, they would have covered the period that the Auditor-General audited public accounts that were given to counties in a timely version. Perhaps in 2019, we would be discussing a report that is current.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, if you set aside the issue for whether the report is current or not, you will notice that from the report, the audited accounts of all county assemblies were not attended. I do not fault the Committee for not doing so. In my previous life, I have served in other Committees. Therefore, I know the constraint that Members of the Committee have. If you look at the reports of the Auditor-General, you will find that a lot of public money is lost when county assemblies meet without purpose, when they pay themselves allowances without following procedures or when they engage in activities that are contrary to the law. So, it would be important for this House to empower the County Public Accounts and Investment Committee to oversight county assemblies as well because those are areas of enormous expenditure.

The County Assembly of Migori where I come from, spent public money that amounts to Kshs750 million annually. That is not pocket change. Homa Bay County spends a similar amount of money and other counties also spend so much money. Therefore, it is important for our oversight Committee to also have opportunity, time and resources dedicated to looking at the accounts of our assemblies.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, our counties also have investments and other bodies that use public funds. If you look at this report for the period under review, you will find

that our County Public Accounts and Investment Committee did not get sufficient time to look at public accounts and audits in relation to those areas.

The officers, in violation did not come face to face to explain what they were doing before the Senate. This is something that has been happening because we have not given capacity and resources to our County Public Accounts and Investment Committee. It has allowed the accounting officials in counties the pleasure of misusing public money knowing that they will not be made to account for the same amount of money before the County Public Accounts and Investment Committee.

That has led to the proposition that informed the suggestion that there is need to amend our Standing Orders to expand the Membership of this important Committee. It would have sub committees which would address some of those thematic areas of audit and oversight. That way, we will be in tandem and comprehensive in terms of holding institutions to account for the public funds that we give them.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we know well that there is wastage. In order for this wastage to be stopped, the people responsible must visit this House and seriously be given an opportunity to be heard on why this wastage has been going on year in, year out.

I have looked at the audit queries that arise in my county. Every year, the Committees of that assembly leave the assembly claiming to go somewhere to write reports.

Although they leave the assembly to go to other places to write reports, when the Auditor General invites them to present records that they were involved in such activities, those records are not available. When they avail some skeleton records, those records indicate that not everybody attended, yet money was taken out in cash to give presumably the ghost attendees.

If we, as a House, are relying on the county assemblies to carry out some primary oversight on the county governments, but they are carrying out their business as if they are criminal enterprises, we would be failing in our responsibility. That is if we do not give time and attention to some of the practices that are prevalent in the county assemblies, so that members can come before the distinguished Committee chaired by my good friend, Sen. M. Kajwang,’ and explain why they are involved in graft. They should explain why they allow graft, yet they are the one who should be leading by example and also ensuring that they follow the law.

If they do not follow the law as the county assemblies, it would be very difficult for them even to discuss the conduct of the county executive committee members. It would also be difficult for them to hold to account county officials, such as the county public service boards and other organisations within the county that are supposed to account directly to them. It is, therefore, important that we get to this and ensure we have comprehensive and timely audit, and also have a follow-up mechanism to ensure that counties are not involved in repeated violation of the laws and regulations, in so far as handling public finances is concerned.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I wish to commend the Senate CPAIC for doing a good job. I am relatively new to the Senate, but had the pleasure and opportunity to participate in the proceedings of this Committee when they invited my governor. My

governor appeared before that Committee in his most arrogant sense. He was abrasive and rude to the Committee, but I am happy that the Committee Members maintained their cool and were able to cause him to respond to the issues that were pertinent at that time.

However, it was reported that the records for the financial transactions of Migori County for the Financial Year 2017/ 2019 amounting to Kshs1.5 billion were not traceable. I urge the Committee to ensure that the people of Migori are protected and their funds are accounted for. The Committee should also ensure that the usage of those funds is done in accordance to law and the value for which those funds are put are beneficial to the public. Up to now I am not in the know as to how the Kshs1.5billion was utilised. I would like this Committee, as they continue with their oversight, to ensure that the funds have been accounted for.

The governor claimed that the records were burnt, the same way the County Government of Kitui claimed. It is a criminal offence not to protect those records. It is important for us, as a House, through the Committee or otherwise, to ensure that crimes associated with destruction of public documents are followed to the end. This is because if we allow counties to destroy public record and those responsible for the safe keeping of those records not to account for the activities, I can assure you that to avoid audit queries, they will all burn the records. There will be nothing to be done because they will attribute that the acts of some surreptitious or unknown persons.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, it will be very important for the people of Migori and this House to insist that our county governments and the people responsible bring the proper records in a timely way. I am happy that the court made a decision yesterday that governors who will be charged with offences relating to what they do at their place of work, should step aside and people who are more willing to be faithful and committed to adherence to the law should take that opportunity and continue running the counties. Their deputies will take over the running of the counties.

It would be very important for this Committee to ensure that governors who do not want to follow the law and may be charged for not doing so in so far as oversight and accounting are concerned, are brought to book knowing very well that they will be asked to step aside from their offices, so that we have orderly counties and mode of operation. Everybody should be responsible and held to account.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, with those very many remarks, allow me to congratulate Sen. M. Kajwang’ and his very good neighbour, Sen. Wamatangi, for the good work they have been doing. I can see it has caused trouble in Kiambu County, but based on good work. Governor of Kiambu be warned. When you are charged, you must step aside and allow your deputy that you dislike to run the county. Governor of Homa Bay and Governor of Migori be warned that if you do not obey or follow the law--- Your Governor of Samburu County should also be warned and step aside. That warning goes to all governors who have a penchant of disobeying or violating the law.

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity to thank Sen. M Kajwang’ for coming up with this Report. It must known to all Kenyans that in carrying out an audit report, the Senate is not out to catch

anyone on the wrong. The audit report is good because it helps us authenticate our work as the Senate.

Article 96 of the Constitution stipulates our role, which is to represent the interests of the counties. We are also supposed to determine the national revenue that goes to the counties. In our purpose of doing what Article 96 demands, the audit reports are very important. There is need for us to corroborate the audit reports and our functions in the Senate to see whether we are getting anywhere. This is for the purpose of ensuring service delivery to Kenyans.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, audit reports are very important for various reasons. One, they ensure efficiency of those in public office. Apart from even ensuring efficiency they also ensure accountability and credibility. They are, therefore, an eye opener as to whether or not things are going on well.

An audit report is good because it reduces the incidences of corruption. We cannot say that audit reports can phase out corruption. As the Senate, we need to see how we can keep reducing corruption until we eliminate it, because eventually that is where we are heading.

Even governors should know that when the Senate goes to do an oversight, it is not witch-hunt. It is just for the purpose of ensuring that we are helping them ensure that whatever programmes that are done in the counties are aligned to the amount of money that was allocated to the county. We sometimes do not want to send little money to the counties to avoid counties being starved from doing their projects. Therefore, an audit report is good because it will bring out some issues, which will be an eye opener for the purpose of ensuring that we are representing county governments and their interests.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the audit report is very independent and objective. When Sen. M. Kajwang' goes to look at an audit report, he cannot predict what to find. However, the findings he gets from the audit tools, like the books or records, will be an indicator of what is happening in the county. Therefore, after doing an audit, that is when they can say: “This is the report we found.” It is, therefore, a very objective, transparent and well-meaning process.

The tools that Sen. M. Kajwang' used, on financial audit, performance audit, investigation audits, advisory audits and all that, are tools that help in promoting credibility of the programmes being done in counties. They are also tools that help to see to it that whatever amount of money that was taken to the county was used for the intended purpose. That way, from the audit report, it is possible to know how much more money ought to go to those counties.

Consequently, if there are any queries, they then ought to be addressed. Even when governors are called to explain these queries, it is not in bad faith. It is just for the purpose of ensuring transparency, accountability and credibility of the officials who are mandated to oversee public funds. That is why sometimes when shocking revelations come from the citizens and audit reports, of course, the auditors will have emotional stability for the sake of the people of this country.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, there are also some issues that came out in the audit report, like the issue of pending bills, which should not arise. There is need for

contractors and suppliers to be paid when they have completed their jobs. Therefore, pending bills should actually not be there; and they should be addressed within that financial year so that they do not spill over to the next financial year.

As we talk about contractors, upfront payment to them before the job is done should not arise. In fact, audit reports should show a staggered kind of payment so that if the contractors did something at the base level, they are paid at the base level. If they continue to the next level, they are then paid at that level. Consequently, when they complete the project, they are then given the optimal payment. However, the issue of contractors being given the optimal payment before they even complete the work is unfair to Kenyans, this nation and county governments. That should not happen in our counties.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, apart from the pending bills, let me speak on the old local authorities that were there before county governments came in. These local authorities already had properties, and there is need for the properties to be identified for us to know their worth. If there is any compensation that ought to be done, it should take into account the value of money at this moment, and not at that moment. This is because money depreciates. Therefore, there is need for compensation to be done in a manner in which the old authorities will not go at a loss.

Regarding the matter of human resources, the audit report says that a lot of money went into salaries and all that, which should not arise. In fact, there is need for counties to look for mechanisms of ensuring that they are catering for their wage bills. County governments have two ways of getting revenue; that is from the national Government, and from the tax they collect within their counties. Therefore, they need to devise mechanisms of ensuring that salaries are paid, so that whatever money that comes from the national Government goes to development. I am speaking about this issue because it is clear that there are so many developments that ought to have been done in the counties but are stagnant.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, at one point, I went to my county and did not see Early Childhood Development (ECD) schools, yet that is a function of the local Government. In some counties, you will find that residents are unable to access water. This should not happen, because water is a basic need. It is not something we can debate about. Water is something that is mandatory and obligatory and the people must get clean water. There are some counties where there is no water at all, and I do not know how the people there survive. Some schools in some counties even lack water. Therefore, there is need for money to go into such projects.

Regarding oversight, we are not supposed to have a weak assembly. Members of County Assemblies (MCAs) need to be empowered for them to do their oversight role. When you go to some counties, some MCAs have actually forgotten their roles, and they are doing something different. They have been pocketed and actually abdicated their work. If that is not the case, then they have forgotten; if not that, then they are not aware of their role.

There is need for capacity building of MCAs on how they can oversight their counties. Apart from that, there is need for them to be empowered financially so as to do

that. You cannot oversight on the media or in newspapers. They need to physically oversight the projects and question them where they find that money for water was allocated and there is no water on the ground. They should question when they go to ward X and find no health centre, yet money was allocated for the same. Therefore, MCAs need to physically go and see the projects on the ground.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I remember that yesterday, Sen. Malalah, Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr., Sen. Shiyonga and I went to Kakamega County Assembly. We were just trying to build capacity of MCAs for them to know that they need to do oversight. In some cases, issues came up that in some hospitals, pregnant and lactating mothers share beds, and some even delivered on the floor. Where did a woman even give birth on the floor? It is uncalled for, and it should never happen in a country where we are talking about universal healthcare.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, there is need for real oversight in counties in order to ensure that development reaches and is useful to wananchi. We do not want patients from counties to travel all the way to the Kenyatta National Hospital (KNH) for referrals; these services need to be right there within the counties. That way, Kenyans will see that we are concerned about them, and that we are serious about universal healthcare.

However, you cannot talk about universal healthcare, yet women are giving birth on the floors in hospitals and sharing beds with no bedsheets nor essential drugs. It should never happen. Drugs should never lack in our hospitals. In fact, as I speak now, drugs should be absolutely free. They should not be free in quotes, but absolutely free so that we can serve Kenyans well.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, if the audit report shows that money was allocated for drugs and for Level 5 hospitals, relevant indicators of that money should be seen. The indicators should show that this sum of money was given to a county government, and it used this much to develop Level 5 hospitals. Indicators of success should be seen, and they should be accompanied by public participation. Kenyans need to speak to these issues. Public participation will help Kenyans see the benefits of the money that is being sent to the counties.

As Senate, we have to play our oversight role to defend Article 96 of the Constitution. We are here because of Kenyans and we are here to represent the county governments and their interests. We are also here to represent that vulnerable citizen. We need to know if they are taken care of. We also need to consider affirmative action. We need to know if some money has been allocated to the marginalised people and persons with disabilities. We have to interrogate such issues with a lot of seriousness that it deserves.

I support this Report and I commend Sen. M. Kajwang’ for coming up with this document.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for allowing me to contribute to this Report. I want to thank Sen. M. Kajwang’ for doing an amazing job. I sat through a session yesterday and I was impressed with how he handled those issues.

I have recommendations that I believe can make a difference in terms of how we move forward to ensure that we have more accountability in the counties. I know that

there is legislation on internal audit within counties but the counties are not implementing that legislation. Having internal auditors in the counties is not good enough. We should have a committee that is independent of the governor to look at the reports produced by the county government. That committee can take their report to the Members of the County Assembly or they can even work with the Auditor General. In accounting standards, auditors can rely on the report of the internal auditors.

The Controller of Budget should play a greater role as compared to what she is doing at the moment. If the Controller of Budget is the one who approves all the expenses, why are we being told that money has been withdrawn from the Exchequer to make irregular payments? How does that arise? The governors are running the county governments like their own shops. They take what they want whenever they please. This House must pronounce itself in order to protect devolution.

The National Assembly recently said that counties squander money, hence they should not be given money. If that squandering continues, people will look at the county governments differently. The Committee that is supposed to oversight county public accounts and investments should be vigilant if we are to take care of the counties and their government.

I am happy that the High Court has pronounced that the governors should stay out of office when they are charged. That is a game changer because they interfere with evidence if they continue staying in office. Accountants and auditors are trained the same way and that makes it difficult for the auditors to catch them because the accountant knows what the auditor is looking for.

An accountant can hide evidence and they can produce all the documents required by the auditors which make it difficult for the auditors to detect anything. Therefore, the Auditor General should have a different approach. Instead of looking at the documents, the Auditor General should check the projects. If the governor says that they have built a particular hospital, the auditors should verify that fact by visiting the site. Verifying the projects alone is not enough. The auditors should go a step further and get the satellite coordinates of those projects to avoid duplication. If we do not put such kind of measures in place, we will be doing a disservice to the county governments.

I support this Report and I urge this Committee to be steadfast in ensuring that corrupt governors do not get away with their acts. As Senators, we are paid by tax-payers and we swore to respect the rule of law and we should make sure that governors also respect the rule of law. If time allows us, I will explain how wages have been skyrocketing yet there is a legislation that caps the wage bill. The governors continue to violate those laws and we are doing nothing about it. This House must pronounce itself so as to protect the Wanjikus, Halimas, Onyangos and all Kenyans. We have to ensure that the counties deliver to the citizens. Money sent to the counties is supposed to be used for the good of mwananchi and not for hiring choppers. We must have value for money in our counties. A lot more needs to be done for us to have accountable governments in our counties.

Thank you.

Hon. Senators, there being no other requests to comment on the Motion, I therefore, call the Mover, Sen. Kajwang’ to reply.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I would like to thank all the Members of the Senate, who have contributed to this Motion. I know there are very many others who would have wished to contribute, but because of the timing and the pressure of other business in the House, they have not had an opportunity to comment.

I have taken note of all the suggestions made by the Senators, and as I mentioned when I was moving this Motion yesterday, this is the very first fiduciary risk report that this Senate has done. I mentioned that it might not be perfect, but from the comments that have come from Members I can see very many ways in which we can improve this Report going forward.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, that Report has also illustrated something around improvement in the opinion of the Auditor-General on counties. In the first three years, most of the counties had adverse opinions and disclaimer of opinion. However, we have seen in subsequent years, particularly, in 2017/2018 - even though it is outside the scope of that report - that at least we have two counties with unqualified opinions and more counties with qualified opinions.

I am a believer that things are going to get better when the scrutiny by Senate and county assemblies becomes more stringent.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we must go or look ahead and ask ourselves whether, as a House, we want to deal purely with financial audit reports or performance audit reports. We have had a conversation with the Auditor-General that in future, this House, probably should be looking at performance audits and county assemblies be looking at financial audits.

We must come up with guidelines as a House that will draw a line between the role of Senate and county assemblies as far as oversight is concerned. I believe that Senate ought to look at consolidated financials coming from counties. There is a provision in the Public Finance Management (PFM) Act, that the Auditor-General shall present a report on the consolidated financials. Consolidated would mean the Executive, the Assembly and all corporations and funds established in the county. This will ensure that the Senate focuses on value for money and special audits while county assemblies could look at the specific fund accounts, specific county corporations and the audit reports for the executive.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I would also like to mention that in the recent past, we have celebrated certain court rulings but there are others that have had the effect of shuttling county assemblies. For example, many assemblies are incapable of concluding the process of impeachment of County Executive Committee (CEC) members, thanks to a court ruling that then placed the decision of the assembly at the whims and mercy of Governors. If county assemblies cannot deal with CECs, who are involved in all sorts of misadventures, then it clips their role in oversight.

County assemblies cannot summon Governors. Sometimes we blame county assemblies for not calling Governors before them; but it is as a result of court rulings that Governors can only appear before the Senate. It is only CECs and CEOs who appear

before assemblies. If the county assembly is a legislative authority at the county level, why should we deny them that power and right to summon a Governor? A Governor only appears before a county assembly when there are impeachment proceedings against him. What kind of oversight is that, that takes away the powers of county assemblies?

There was the recent decision that said that county assemblies should oversight own-source revenue while Senate oversights nationally allocated revenue. As I had mentioned last week when I presented the Report of the County Public Accounts and Investments Committee we consider that view to be obiter dicta, and we are not compelled to comply with it.

In our view, it poses serious practical challenges of implementation. When you look at the judgment and the subsequent orders that came from the court, the issue on Own Source Revenue (OSR) did not form part of the final orders.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the Senate must be proactive so that we move from being morticians who come in three years after to physicians who come in before things get bad. I hope that things will get better. I am confident that on issues of human resource management, if we implement recommendations of the Capacity Assessment and Rationalization of the Public Service (CARPS) for defunct local authorities, implement the reports of the county assets and liabilities verification Committee and on pending bills and if we have a clear view of the actual pending bills, we will reduce some of the fiducial risk that comes out of the counties.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, in conclusion, I wish to invite all Senators to a meeting with the Auditor-General next week on Monday. This might be his last meeting with the Senate because he will be retiring in the month of August. Let every Senator come and query the special report on pending bills. This is because there are some interesting trends in those reports, which if left unchallenged, will open a flood gate for corruption.

I thank all Senators. I request the Speaker to defer putting of the question to a later date pursuant to Standing Order No. 61(3).

Thank you, Sen. M. Kajwang. I defer the putting of the question to 31st July, 2019.

Next Order.

profile as a progressive and international Technical University, growing its enrolment strategically; FURTHER AWARE that the University is located in Murang’a County, the home County of the late politician Kenneth Njindo Matiba, who died a patriotic and political hero, with numerous achievements spanning four decades; NOTING THAT, the late Matiba was a prolific industrialist in the hospitality and education sector, and an accomplished public servant having served as the first indigenous African Permanent Secretary for Education in 1963; Permanent Secretary for Commerce; Chairperson of the Kenya Football Federation from 1974-78; a member of parliament for Kiharu constituency; Cabinet Minister for Health; Culture & Social Services; and Transport and Communications; FURTHER NOTING THAT, the late Matiba was part of the opposition alliance that led the liberation struggle for the restoration of multi-party democracy through the Forum for the Restoration of Democracy (FORD), later founding FORD –Asili under which he ran for presidency in 1992 general election; COGNIZANT that under the Heroes Act, 2014, the state is obliged to confer recognition to the late statesman for his cardinal contributions to the political and economic growth of this country; FURTHER COGNIZANT that other patriotic Kenyans like Jomo Kenyatta, Daniel arap Moi, Masinde Muliro, Dedan Kimathi and Jaramogi Oginga Odinga have been accorded such recognition; NOW THEREFORE, the Senate urges the National Government in remembrance of Matiba’s contribution to our Nation, to rename Murang’a University of Technology to Kenneth Matiba University of Technology.

Hon. Senators, I defer Order No.11 as Sen. (Dr.) Mwaura is not present.

Service for efficient and effective service delivery at both levels of Government; NOTING THAT, the implementation timelines for the CARPS programme of two years specifically with regard to the capacity assessment, workload analysis and staff redeployment and transfers, are of paramount importance in the Counties as the terms of all second term County Governors come to a close in 2022; CONCERNED THAT, County governments are still engaged in uncontrolled hiring of staff in total violation of applicable laws, exposing a glaring imbalance between money spent on recurrent expenditure, versus budgets for development projects which are the essence of devolution; CONCERNED FURTHER THAT, contrary to Section 15(2) (b) of the Public Finance Management (PFM) Act, in counties such as Nairobi, Machakos, Garissa, Kisumu, Wajir, Baringo, Narok, Nakuru and Nyamira, staff salaries consumed in excess of 75 per cent of total expenditure, over and above the set limit of 35 per cent as provided in Regulation 25 (1) of the Public Finance Management (County Governments) Regulations, 2015 during the FY 2018/2019; DEEPLY CONCERNED THAT, although Section 65 of the County Governments Act requires that more than 30 per cent of the vacancies at entry level be given to members of ethnic groups that are not dominant in their precincts, the 2016 Ethnic and Diversity audit launched by the National Cohesion and Integration Commission revealed that 68 per cent of Counties have hired more than 70 per cent of their staff from one ethnic group; NOW THEREFORE in exercise of its oversight function, the resolves that the Public Service Commission (PSC), Intergovernmental Relations Technical Committee (IGTRC) and the Council of Governors provide a comprehensive report on:

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Let me start from where Sen. M. Kajwang left it when he said that the CARPS report should help us to

structure human resources management within the counties. However, there has not been a lot of progress in terms of recommending the implementation of the recommendations that were given. There has not been enough effort so far that has been put to ensure that enough impetus is put in terms of employment, redeployment, rationalization, distribution of jobs, transfers within the county, voluntary separation and allowing people who can leave certain jobs to do.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, you might recall that when we were in Kisumu, Governor Anyang’-Nyong’o said that may be counties have to think about how they will offload some of the people or restructure and find a way to seek for voluntary retirement from some of the workers.

I had formally moved the Motion. So, I will just proceed. This particular report that was put in operation through national and County Governments Coordinating Summit on 19th June, was focused on ensuring that we come up with key human resources and structural changes that will enhance the proper management of human resources within counties. Further, an institutional framework was established and it is what we are referring to as CARPS.

It was an IGSC which was launched on 14th July, 2014 by the President. There was a lot of impetus that this programme should create order. It was officially launched on 1st September and the respective governors also participated. That programme was meant to be completed. It was meant to be carried out between April, 2016 and 26th May,

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for allowing me to second. I thank my sister, Sen. (Dr.) Zani, for picking this topic. I ended up seconding her because I was also thinking of the same Motion. When I went to the Director, they told me that she was doing the same thing, and I approached her in order to contribute to this issue.

First of all, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, people are recruited within the counties. I am talking about the counties like mine, which did not inherit a huge wage bill. They then County Council had not employed so many people. Therefore, some counties were blessed to have inherited less staff. However, the governors then came and recruited more staff.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, there are certain criteria required by law in terms of selecting for the appointment by the County Public Service Board (CPSC) . These include the standards, values and principles of a candidate as set out in Articles 10, 27, 56 (c) and 232 (1) of the Constitution. It also prescribes the qualification for holding or acting in an office, which include experience and achievement attained by the candidate. It also includes the conduct of the candidate in view of the relevant conduct, ethics and integrity.

Given all that, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, some counties have recruited people, and I am assuming that they used those criteria. They may have been within the threshold or sometimes less than 25 per cent. Then another Governor comes in and recruits to an unimaginable level, which I will read later on. I did further analysis using data from the Controller of Budget (CoB) to come up with very scary statistics. If you do not take care of some of these things properly--- The law requires that a maximum of 35 per cent of the money should be used for staff. It also requires that at least 30 per cent of the money should be used in development. Needless to say, the remaining 35 per cent is for service delivery; for example, to ensure that there is medicine and medical services in hospitals. In terms of agriculture, you have to provide seeds and the outreach services by the technical people to advice farmers. There are many other things there, as outlined in the Fourth Schedule of the Constitution.

In terms of projects, there is need for value for money. Most governors recruit people just for those people to sit idle in the offices. The Controller of Budget audit report shows that Wajir County’s wage bill is at 65.14 per cent of the budget. How will they deliver services or do any development project? The 65 per cent in Wajir County is only taking care of 35 per cent. How is that logical? It is very illogical and I do not want to believe that the county lacks people who can do the analysis that I am doing at the

moment. That is because they have competent people who can do this analysis but they are ignored.

We can understand the governors who found the defunct county governments and inherited a big wage bill but what about those who inherited a clean bill? There are some counties that were at the 35 per cent threshold with the previous governors, but things have now changed. In Turkana, Siaya and Makueni counties, the governors have not changed but their wage bill has increased by 10 per cent and above. Some new governors have taken their counties to a different level though they have not reduced drastically.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, there is a Swahili saying that goes; kidogo kidogo hujaza kibaba which means that one just needs to take a little step but in the end, they will see a difference in the counties. Tharaka Nithi County has reduced its wage bill by

Sen. Farhiya, you will have seven minutes to continue.

30 p.m., time to interrupt the business of the House. The Senate, therefore, stands adjourned until Tuesday 30th July, 2019 at 2:30 p.m.

The Senate rose at 6:30 p.m.