Yes! (The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kembi-Gitura) consulted the Clerk-at-the-Table) The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kembi-Gitura): Yes, we have a quorum, so we can go to the business of the day. MESSAGE

Hon. Senators, do we have a quorum?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise under Standing Order No.40(1), (2) and (4) regarding Messages. As you are aware, this Standing Order allows the Speaker to tell us what is happening in the other House. I have been approached by many couples from my county, including a Catholic Priest who are concerned about--- The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kembi-Gitura): A Catholic Priest cannot be a couple!

That is including and amongst others. They are concerned about a Bill that appeared in the Lower House called the Marriage Bill. I would like you to confirm that there has been a communication from the Lower House to you in anticipation of the fact that the Bill will eventually find its way here. The concern of the people in the county is that in this House, we have a good mix of Senators; the elderly, the married, those who are not married, grand-parents and so on. These are the people who can rise and articulate this sensitive matter. They want assurance that this Bill will come to the Senate for discussion.

Yes, we have a quorum, so we can go to the business of the day. MESSAGE

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kembi-Gitura): Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale and hon. Members, as you are aware, the Marriage Bill is going on in the National Assembly and you know as well as I do because we have deliberated on this issue at the Senate level, that is not the only Bill going on there, but there are about eight or so Bills going on and have not been consented to by the Senate as required by Article 110 of the Constitution where the Speakers of both Houses have to agree on whether a Bill touches on matters to do with the county or not. What I can say as I stand here before you, is that the Bill has not been referred to us yet and I am sure it forms one of the issues that we had raised as a question in the Supreme Court to determine whether or not the Speaker of the National Assembly has proceeded correctly in having these Bills debated in the National Assembly when they have not sat, him and the Speaker of the Senate, and agreed under Article 110 on whether or not they touch on counties. If they do, then they must also come to the Senate for debate after the National Assembly which is the originator of the Bills has had its say on them. At the moment we need to be a little bit patient and realize that the Supreme Court’s answer to our question on this and other issues is still pending and it is only after that shall I be able to give a comprehensive answer to the very important issue that

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I agree with your direction completely and I would add that when that time comes for you to give a comprehensive consideration to this matter, also take into account the fact that this Senate can also, in my view, debate and form an opinion on matters or Bills which do not necessarily concern the counties because the Senate as Parliament, under Article 94, is also the protector of the Constitution which also contains the Bill of Rights and other issues. So, there may be a Bill which may not necessarily concern the counties per se but which touches on other aspects of the Constitution. Therefore, we as Senate, have the right, if not to enact, but at least to pass a resolution on our viewpoint on that Bill. I would like that to be taken into account when the time comes as you consider to give a comprehensive opinion on the matter. The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kembi-Gitura): Thank you, Sen. Wako. The only assurance I can give you is that at the Senate level, we shall always act correctly and according to the law in dealing with Bills and all other matters that come before us. I have taken note of what you have said and I appreciate what you have said under Article 94 and we shall proceed accordingly. Next Order!

A Catholic Priest cannot be a couple!

That is including and amongst others. They are concerned about a Bill that appeared in the Lower House called the Marriage Bill. I would like you to confirm that there has been a communication from the Lower House to you in anticipation of the fact that the Bill will eventually find its way here. The concern of the people in the county is that in this House, we have a good mix of Senators; the elderly, the married, those who are not married, grand-parents and so on. These are the people who can rise and articulate this sensitive matter. They want assurance that this Bill will come to the Senate for discussion.

THAT they are citizens of the Republic of Kenya, they are duly registered as voters, they are tax-payers and they give nursing care and that they have authorized me to state the following:- That I draw the attention of the Senate--- The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kembi-Gitura): Let me get it right, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale. On the petitions in the appendix, that is, (a) and (b), which one are you dealing with right now?

Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale and hon. Members, as you are aware, the Marriage Bill is going on in the National Assembly and you know as well as I do because we have deliberated on this issue at the Senate level, that is not the only Bill going on there, but there are about eight or so Bills going on and have not been consented to by the Senate as required by Article 110 of the Constitution where the Speakers of both Houses have to agree on whether a Bill touches on matters to do with the county or not. What I can say as I stand here before you, is that the Bill has not been referred to us yet and I am sure it forms one of the issues that we had raised as a question in the Supreme Court to determine whether or not the Speaker of the National Assembly has proceeded correctly in having these Bills debated in the National Assembly when they have not sat, him and the Speaker of the Senate, and agreed under Article 110 on whether or not they touch on counties. If they do, then they must also come to the Senate for debate after the National Assembly which is the originator of the Bills has had its say on them. At the moment we need to be a little bit patient and realize that the Supreme Court’s answer to our question on this and other issues is still pending and it is only after that shall I be able to give a comprehensive answer to the very important issue that

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I agree with your direction completely and I would add that when that time comes for you to give a comprehensive consideration to this matter, also take into account the fact that this Senate can also, in my view, debate and form an opinion on matters or Bills which do not necessarily concern the counties because the Senate as Parliament, under Article 94, is also the protector of the Constitution which also contains the Bill of Rights and other issues. So, there may be a Bill which may not necessarily concern the counties per se but which touches on other aspects of the Constitution. Therefore, we as Senate, have the right, if not to enact, but at least to pass a resolution on our viewpoint on that Bill. I would like that to be taken into account when the time comes as you consider to give a comprehensive opinion on the matter.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I just want to clarify because you have said when we get to Statements is when you will give us the 30 minutes, but we are not on Statements but on Papers. The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kembi-Gitura): That was a Petition. I meant Petitions. I made a mistake with Statements and I withdraw. It was on petitions; Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale put a petition before this House yesterday. Now the Floor is open for the next 30 minutes and it is going to be five minutes for each and depending on the interest that Members show, we will graduate it downwards.

Thank you, Sen. Wako. The only assurance I can give you is that at the Senate level, we shall always act correctly and according to the law in dealing with Bills and all other matters that come before us. I have taken note of what you have said and I appreciate what you have said under Article 94 and we shall proceed accordingly. Next Order!

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have noticed that their names are indicated and also counties but this petition does not say whether Elgeyo-Marakwet County is unable to deal with emoluments.

THAT they are citizens of the Republic of Kenya, they are duly registered as voters, they are tax-payers and they give nursing care and that they have authorized me to state the following:- That I draw the attention of the Senate---

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kembi-Gitura): Sen. Murkomen, you started by saying that it is against the law and against the Constitution. Is that what you said?

Let me get it right, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale. On the petitions in the appendix, that is, (a) and (b), which one are you dealing with right now?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am now dealing with (b); about nurses. The one of yesterday has been put on the Order Paper because you had directed that today Senators be allowed to ventilate on it and that is (a). I am just presenting (b). They have asked me to draw the attention of the Senate to the following:-

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July 25, 2013

Hon. Members, yesterday Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale placed a petition before us and I directed under the relevant Standing Order that I would allow 30 minutes during statements, for Members to talk about it, ventilate or seek direction on it. So, I direct that the Floor is now open for the next 30 minutes until 3.10 p.m.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I just want to clarify because you have said when we get to Statements is when you will give us the 30 minutes, but we are not on Statements but on Papers.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, thank you for that clarification and for giving me the opportunity; I will be very brief. The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kembi-Gitura): Not more than five minutes.

That was a Petition. I meant Petitions. I made a mistake with Statements and I withdraw. It was on petitions; Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale put a petition before this House yesterday. Now the Floor is open for the next 30 minutes and it is going to be five minutes for each and depending on the interest that Members show, we will graduate it downwards.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, thank you for the opportunity. I would like to recognize this petition and say that it is a very serious petition. It has profound impact on devolution. When you see clinical officers talking about their personal emoluments, where they say that they do not want to be paid by the county governments, it worries me. It worries me because it is increasingly showing that the persons who are expected to go and serve in the county governments have no faith in the institution, structures, abilities and potential of county governments. I have a problem with this petition because first of all, it is not constitutional and it is not legal. The Constitution in the Sixth Schedule, paragraph 15, provides that devolution can be done or phased out to a maximum of three years. That means that it can be done even in one day. It is very important for us to notice that. The Transition to County Government Act is very clear as to how functions are going to be devolved to the counties. It is very clear in Sections 24, 25, 26 up to 27 that for any function to be transferred to the counties, we must be able to assess the capacity of the counties to deal with those functions. The Transition Authority will take the lead in terms of auditing of the capabilities and abilities to take that function. Thereafter, they will advise which functions are going to the counties immediately; which ones will be devolved immediately and which ones will be devolved after a year, two years or three years, maximum. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have a problem with this petition because it does not distinguish which county has the capacity, and this is important, to deal with emoluments and which one does not. We cannot receive a petition that has a generalization that all counties are unable to pay salaries. In fact, if this petition has to be within the law, the petitioners must distinguish themselves, county by county, to say that we come from county X or county Y, but as you see---

July 25, 2013

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have noticed that their names are indicated and also counties but this petition does not say whether Elgeyo-Marakwet County is unable to deal with emoluments.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me an opportunity to also take part in ventilating a little bit on this issue. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, unlike few other speakers, personally I find that there is a certain amount of merit in this Petition because we are debating or discussing this, as it were, without full information. As the Chair ruled or directed earlier, after we

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ventilate for a while, this matter should be committed to the relevant Committee – and I presume this is the Committee on Devolution I think that is the correct way to go because nurses, clinical officers and other personnel in the health sector at the moment are all under the national Government and the bulk of them came before devolution came. So, without details like; how their retirement or other systems are done--- For example, once somebody is transferred or posted to county “x,” can they then go to another county? Can there be cross county transfers either through some national system or through, maybe, personal requests, and so on? So, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, this Petition is rightly before us. Let the Committee on Devolution sit with it so that the officers who signed the Petition can come before us and explain what they had in mind and what problems it is that they have. If we do this, by the time we, as a Senate, give a decision or direction on which way to go, then it would have been digested properly. That is all I have to say, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Thank you. The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kembi-Gitura): Thank you, Sen. (Eng.) Karue. Sen. (Dr.) Machage.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we begin to see teething problems in the implementation of the new Constitution. We are likely to see a lot of this, and this is because of the hurried way in which the Constitution was passed without listening to dissenting voices, which requested that amendments were necessary on the draft before the Constitution was passed. Since it was passed, it must be accepted the way it is, unless an amendment is moved on the same Constitution. Always listen to Sen. (Dr.) Machage when he is talking to the nation; I said this and nobody listened!

Maybe, I will be interested to know in what way it is against the Constitution. I just want a clarification from you.

Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. First of all, the Constitution provides for phased out transfer of functions and that is the Sixth Schedule, paragraph 15, which also requires that you assess the capacity of the counties based on their capacity. Now, there is no indication here that the counties have no capacity. The institution which has been given the responsibility to assess that capacity is the Transition Authority. If you read Article 23 up to Article 27, they will tell you the things that need to be done in terms of assessment of capacity of counties and the advice the Transition Authority will give in terms of gazetting. In fact, the Transition Authority is supposed to gazette the functions that will go to which county based on assessment of capacity. The only time that such a petition under the Transition to County Government Act will find its way to this House is when a particular county has been given a function and one thinks that they have no capacity to do that function or where a county believes that they have capacity to do the function but the Transition Authority has denied them that function. So, I think it would be unfair and unfortunate for this House to be told to make determination of such a petition when it is not provided for or structured within the law. We are unable to say here that, for sure, Garissa is unable to pay salaries or unable to hire even more staff and pay them. My only concern with this petition is that it is not contextualized in the law. Lastly, I do not think the President issued this executive directive that is purported to be written here because executive directives must be in writing and must be tabled in this House. So, it is important for Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale to have advised the clinical officers that; if they have to make an assertion that there is a direction that the President has issued, the so-called, executive order, it should come in writing. I have already informed this House that what the President did was that; he expressed the willingness of the national government to support an immediate devolution of all functions to counties. That does not negate the responsibility of the Transition Authority to do what the law requires in terms of assessing functions, capabilities of the counties, dealing with county governments and thereafter making a decision as to whether all the functions in health, roads or any other sector will go to county governments.

On a point of order!

Now, this is different and, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, if you wish again that there should be a discussion on it, it is not in my place to curtail debate in this House. So, would you like to have it ventilated on, or are you satisfied with what the hon. Members have said? Because, again, whether or not we discuss it, it shall stand committed to the relevant Committee, which is the same Committee. What would you like us to do about that, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, is Sen. Murkomen in order to mislead this House, whereas it is very explicitly put in the HANSARD of the last discussions on the same matter where he was challenged to table to this House the Statement that he has again repeated – that the President made a remark – that he

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wishes to be skewed to what he thinks? He could not table that document and he withdrew. Is he in order?

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I beg to give notice to the Department of Devolution and Planning, in a slightly changed version than what appears on the Order Paper as follows. I beg to give notice of the following Motion:- THAT, aware that the county is the main focus of devolution and that there exist multi-level structures within county governments; noting the need for counties to succeed and improve the social, economic and political well-being of citizens and attain optimum levels of development within the said counties; appreciating that the devolved government structure envisioned in the Constitution of Kenya 2010 provides for different levels of government functions and responsibilities and that the interpretation and enforcement of these roles has been the subject of debate; concerned that there is still no county impact analysis strategy; the Senate urges the Council of Governors to take measures to require all counties to formulate, map and operationalize with measurable indicators key development agenda and deliverables for each term of the respective county governments. Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

You have changed what is on the Order Paper. The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kembi-Gitura): Sen. (Dr.) Zani, have you added the words “to formulate” or something like that in the last part?

She has added several words!

It now reads:- “The Senate urges the Council of Governors to take measures to require all counties to formulate, map and operationalize with measurable indicators key development agenda and deliverables for each term of the respective county governments.” So, in the amended version, the words “national government” have been changed to “Council of Governors.”

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Not more than five minutes.

Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. First of all, paragraph one of the Petition to which our attention is being drawn says that the President issued an executive directive that devolution should take effect on 1st July. Article 135 of the Constitution states that:-

That was already there. But now, instead of saying “to formulate a County Results Framework,” it reads “to formulate, map and operationalize with measurable indicators---” The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kembi-Gitura): Okay; thank you.

In addition, it is talking about the fact that you can do transfers and disciplining. Then you say that, in terms of salaries, we should leave it to Nairobi. It does not make sense! I mean, it does not make sense! The second point, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it says in the Petition:- “THAT, the Senate intervenes to facilitate the reversal of the said transfer of personnel emolument to county governments until such a time when the county government shall be capable to take this function from the national government and until county governments fulfill the requirements of the County Government Act of 2012 and the Transition to Devolved Government Act, 2012.” Who determines when that county government will be capable? Who determines that? That responsibility is the work of the Transition Authority (TA). If the TA has so determined that your county can handle that function, and that function has been given to the county, there is no way an employee or staff can say “Sorry, we are not ready.” I think, really, this is not acceptable and we cannot detach payment of emoluments from staffing, discipline, transfers and all other aspects of human resource. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the concern here is emoluments. This Senate has the responsibility of ensuring that counties have adequate finance to pay for salaries. In discussing the Division of Revenue Bill and the County Allocation of Revenue Bill here, our primary responsibility was to ensure that there is money for the functions that have been devolved. There is no way we can allow any county government to carry out a function if there are no commensurate resources. Therefore, it does not make sense that somebody says that you can transfer functions, but because there is no money and those institutions cannot pay my salary, my salary should remain with Nairobi. That decision is ours; we are already making the relevant Bills to ensure that resources for all those functions are made available. Lastly, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to say that it is going to set a precedent if we allow employees of any particular Ministry or department to say “We are not ready to be paid by county governments; we want to be paid by the national Government.” That is not acceptable! Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to add, again, that indeed, there is an institution called the Summit, that brings together the Executive and the county governors. To the best of my knowledge, that institution has an arrangement worked out where county governments themselves requested that in terms of the payroll, the national Government continues handling it for a period of time. I think these things can be debated and discussed by the respective county governments in accordance with the Constitution that allowed inter-governmental relations. So, I find this Petition is something that flies in the face of our mandate, which is to protect the county governments and to ensure that devolution is entrenched. So, I think I will not support it. Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to give notice of the following Motion:- THAT, noting that Article 1 (4) of the Constitution of Kenya states that the sovereign power of the people is exercised at the national and county levels; noting further that Article 6(2) of the Constitution recognizes that the two levels of Government are distinct and inter-dependent; aware that devolution is an important principle of governance in the new structure; recognizing the important role of the civil service the world-over causing countries to establish specialized schools of Government; further noting that the Government established a training institute for civil servants in 1956 to impart relevant knowledge, skills, attitudes, leadership and management competencies that are required for efficient and effective service delivery; noting with concern that one of the main obstacles to the efficient and effective operation of County Governments is inadequate appropriate human capacity; further noting that section 15(2) of the sixth schedule to the Constitution places responsibility on the national Government to assist County Governments in building capacity to govern effectively and provide services for which they are responsible; the Senate calls on the national Government to take immediate measures to set up a training institute or college to give the necessary and appropriate training to personnel of County Governments.

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I rise to seek your guidance on these Motions. I have noted that Sen. Wako took about six minutes to read the preamble to his Notice of Motion. The operational sentence of the Notice of his Motion is; “the Senate calls on the national Government to take immediate measures to set up a training institute or college to give necessary appropriate training to the personnel of county governments.” Tomorrow, we will get a Senator who will

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me an opportunity to also take part in ventilating a little bit on this issue. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, unlike few other speakers, personally I find that there is a certain amount of merit in this Petition because we are debating or discussing this, as it were, without full information. As the Chair ruled or directed earlier, after we

ventilate for a while, this matter should be committed to the relevant Committee – and I presume this is the Committee on Devolution I think that is the correct way to go because nurses, clinical officers and other personnel in the health sector at the moment are all under the national Government and the bulk of them came before devolution came. So, without details like; how their retirement or other systems are done--- For example, once somebody is transferred or posted to county “x,” can they then go to another county? Can there be cross county transfers either through some national system or through, maybe, personal requests, and so on? So, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, this Petition is rightly before us. Let the Committee on Devolution sit with it so that the officers who signed the Petition can come before us and explain what they had in mind and what problems it is that they have. If we do this, by the time we, as a Senate, give a decision or direction on which way to go, then it would have been digested properly. That is all I have to say, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Thank you.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kembi-Gitura): Sen. Musila, I will start with you.

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I just want to draw the attention of the Chair and that of the House to the fact that on 14th May this year, I stood here and sought a statement on the issue of the Equilisation Fund. The Chair issued a directive on that day to a Joint Committee on Finance, Commerce and Economic Affairs and the Committee on Devolved Government to inquire into the matter on how funds under the Equalisation Fund were distributed and to report back within a week. No report was brought but on 16th June, 2013, I raised the matter again and the Speaker ordered the two Chairpersons to bring a Report to the Senate. Last month, two weeks ago, this issue also rose again. Kitui County, having been rightly classified as a marginalised county along with others was left out in the distribution of funds under the Equalisation Fund in this financial year.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we begin to see teething problems in the implementation of the new Constitution. We are likely to see a lot of this, and this is because of the hurried way in which the Constitution was passed without listening to dissenting voices, which requested that amendments were necessary on the draft before the Constitution was passed. Since it was passed, it must be accepted the way it is, unless an amendment is moved on the same Constitution. Always listen to Sen. (Dr.) Machage when he is talking to the nation; I said this and nobody listened!

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am talking about a Joint Committee of Finance, Commerce and Economic Affairs and the Committee on Devolved Government that were mandated by the Speaker to look into the matter and report back to the Senate. They were directed to do that. The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kembi-Gitura): Do the Chairpersons have anything to say because this has taken an inordinately long time?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I appreciate the verbal report that has been given by the Chair of the Committee on Finance, Commerce and Economic Affairs. It is a practice of this House and all Houses in the world that such a report should be in writing. This gives an opportunity to other Legislators to ventilate on the matter. This was not a matter concerning Kitui. There were 21 counties that were classified as marginalised. Some of them were Homa Bay, Baringo and Kitui. We wanted the report to be brought to the House so that we discuss it. The Chair of the Committee has just given a verbal statement that cannot be taken to the bank. I request that you order that something in writing be brought to the House so that we debate the matter. The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kembi-Gitura): Sen. Billow, have you now given your statement?

Sen. Wako, I think you will be the last person to ventilate on this.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I agree with those who have said that the President’s decision must be in writing. The executive order that this petition refers to in Paragraph 1 does not exist. There is nothing attached to show that the President has made this decision in writing. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, there are also a number of factors which clearly show that this is contrary to our Constitution; not just in respect of the decision made but, also, they state that this should revert until the county governments fulfill the requirements of the County Governments Act 2012 and the Transition to Devolved Government Act, 2012. Although it is stated there, we do not have any facts on which we can form the basis of that opinion. The only thing that is giving me a little bit of a problem on this is really something that is almost null and void, ab initio. But it is now really up to you to decide whether it is a matter that can automatically go to the Committee concerned. When I look at it, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we will have to decide on it, and it does appear to me that when it is about a Motion to be brought, then we have to consider whether the contents of that Motion are in accordance with the Constitution in terms of Standing Order No.45(3), which states:- “If the Speaker is of the opinion that any proposed Motion-

Now, this is different and, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, if you wish again that there should be a discussion on it, it is not in my place to curtail debate in this House. So, would you like to have it ventilated on, or are you satisfied with what the hon. Members have said? Because, again, whether or not we discuss it, it shall stand committed to the relevant Committee, which is the same Committee. What would you like us to do about that, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, listening to the Chair of the Committee on Finance, Commerce and Economic Affairs, I get the impression that next year, he will do a favour to the counties that were left out. The Constitution does not give discretion. The Constitution does not say that this money is available to some of the marginalised counties. It only talks about money to the marginalised counties. So, it is important that he brings a statement to persuade us to agree with him that there is merit in what he is saying. They need to lay a statement on the Table so as to persuade the House that there is merit in some of the counties being left out. Otherwise, we would be failing as a Senate if we sanctioned a move that leaves out some marginalised regions without proper reason.

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Is it in order for us to keep on referring to marginalised counties when the Constitution talks about marginalised areas? The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kembi-Gitura): That is a different issue altogether.

Sen. Murkomen, are you on a point of order?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the statement I gave, initially, was not in writing. You will remember that those were the days when we just used to answer before there was a directive that all statements must be signed by the relevant Cabinet Secretary. The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kembi-Gitura): Did you give a written statement?

You have changed what is on the Order Paper.

No, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kembi-Gitura): So, the statement by Sen. Billow is not absolutely correct? Has there not been a statement?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I gave a verbal statement. We will lay this statement on the Table on Tuesday. However, it is more important to note that this issue was raised way before we had a public hearing on the Division of Revenue Bill. It was subjected to that debate when the Chair of the CRA came to the Committee meeting. So, the answer to that question, which is more appropriate, is contained in the report of the two Committees which was done after we dealt with the Division of Revenue Bill. We will table the report on Tuesday. Secondly, when the CRA came before the Committee, they came with a document that explained why they decided to have 14 counties for now. What has been referred to here by the Chairperson of the Committee on Finance, Commerce and Economic Affairs is explained there and is important. The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kembi-Gitura): Sen. Murkomen, there is one thing I want to understand, if you allow me. Sen. Musila has sought a statement. You gave a verbal statement. Now, Sen. Billow has tried to clarify the statement that you gave. However, as far as I can see, you are continuing to give another statement. I want to know whether or not Sen. Musila should expect a written statement on a very important issue that he has raised. He is not talking about Kitui. He is talking about the provisions of the law; the Constitution and the law and how we should proceed with the 14 marginalised areas. He wants to know, if I got him right, what happens to Kitui which was cut off. Did it stop being a marginalised area because it fell on No.15 and the line was at No.14? I think, with a lot of respect to you and the Joint Committee that you and Sen. Billow are supposed to report on this issue. It is good practice, as the Speaker ruled, to have it in writing so that this House has ownership and gets to know what it is interrogating. I would like to ask you, Chairpersons of a Joint Committee, whether you are ready to give a written statement to Sen. Musila on the issue that he raised. I will not allow you, since you are not on a point of order, to continue to give a further statement on what

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, with all due respect, I would like to know if a Report done by the CRA explaining the same issue or a Report by our Committee can be laid on the Table as an answer. The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kembi-Gitura): Give a statement. If this means that you have to lay a document on the Table, lay the document. However, have the statement signed so that we all take responsibility for.

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The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kembi-Gitura): Thank you very much. Is that satisfactory, Sen. Musila?

The word “formulate” is not in the amended version between the word “counties” and the words “to map?” It is not the one I have.

Yes. So---

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it will be satisfactory, as long as it is specifically on the Equalisation Fund. The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kembi-Gitura): Thank you, Senator. Hon. Senators, if you look at the appendix, there is a Statement by the Senate Majority Leader. Go on!

You have put the words “to formulate.”

seek clarification. But I cannot allow you to ride on his back and ask for further things on top of that. I hope that you understand where I am coming from.

Much obliged, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I do understand and stand guided.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, on behalf of the Chair, I promise that we will give the Statement in the next two weeks. We had a meeting today and one of the---

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Two weeks is too long, because we have one arrogant Cabinet Secretary--- The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kembi-Gitura): That is not a point of order. If you are saying that two weeks are not enough, then you need to let him finish.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I was saying two weeks in the sense that we had a Committee meeting today, and the Cabinet Secretary will report to the Committee next week on Thursday. It is one of the agenda items that we will deliberate on. So, we will include the issues that the Senator has raised, so that we can bring the Statement in two weeks time. The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kembi-Gitura): What date do you want us to take? That will be on 8th August. Shall we not be on recess?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Motion for Adjournment may be opposed. The Senators may refuse to go on recess. The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kembi-Gitura): Is there any way that you can bring it forward, Sen. Keter? We cannot ask Sen. Keter to do the impossible because if they will have a meeting with the Cabinet Secretary, and he can only derive his answer from their meeting with him, then we might be asking him to deal with a futility.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am saying so because it is a serious issue, and I understand my brother,

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to give notice of the following Motion:- THAT, noting that Article 1 (4) of the Constitution of Kenya states that the sovereign power of the people is exercised at the national and county levels; noting further that Article 6(2) of the Constitution recognizes that the two levels of Government are distinct and inter-dependent; aware that devolution is an important principle of governance in the new structure; recognizing the important role of the civil service the world-over causing countries to establish specialized schools of Government; further noting that the Government established a training institute for civil servants in 1956 to impart relevant knowledge, skills, attitudes, leadership and management competencies that are required for efficient and effective service delivery; noting with concern that one of the main obstacles to the efficient and effective operation of County Governments is inadequate appropriate human capacity; further noting that section 15(2) of the sixth schedule to the Constitution places responsibility on the national Government to assist County Governments in building capacity to govern effectively and provide services for which they are responsible; the Senate calls on the national Government to take immediate measures to set up a training institute or college to give the necessary and appropriate training to personnel of County Governments.

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I rise to seek your guidance on these Motions. I have noted that Sen. Wako took about six minutes to read the preamble to his Notice of Motion. The operational sentence of the Notice of his Motion is; “the Senate calls on the national Government to take immediate measures to set up a training institute or college to give necessary appropriate training to the personnel of county governments.” Tomorrow, we will get a Senator who will

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, could Sen. Sonko withdraw? The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kembi-Gitura): Sen. Sonko, you are talking about a Minister of the Government. Therefore, that is very unparliamentary.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I withdraw and apologize.

Sen. Musila, I will start with you.

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I just want to draw the attention of the Chair and that of the House to the fact that on 14th May this year, I stood here and sought a statement on the issue of the Equilisation Fund. The Chair issued a directive on that day to a Joint Committee on Finance, Commerce and Economic Affairs and the Committee on Devolved Government to inquire into the matter on how funds under the Equalisation Fund were distributed and to report back within a week. No report was brought but on 16th June, 2013, I raised the matter again and the Speaker ordered the two Chairpersons to bring a Report to the Senate. Last month, two weeks ago, this issue also rose again. Kitui County, having been rightly classified as a marginalised county along with others was left out in the distribution of funds under the Equalisation Fund in this financial year.

July 25, 2013

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to plead with you to prevail upon the two Committee Chairpersons to produce a report or the statement that I asked for so that this House can have the opportunity to deliberate on the Division of the Equalisation Fund for this year.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, he sought a very detailed Statement on the expenditure on roads and infrastructure for 20 years. This is very extensive work and they are working on it. I seek the indulgence of the Senator until Tuesday next week, when we should be able to give him some answer. The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kembi-Gitura): Is that okay, Sen. Hargura?

It is okay, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kembi-Gitura): Thank you very much. Sen. Ndiema!

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am talking about a Joint Committee of Finance, Commerce and Economic Affairs and the Committee on Devolved Government that were mandated by the Speaker to look into the matter and report back to the Senate. They were directed to do that.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Statement is not ready because on Thursday, many Statements were requested for and are being worked on. We will answer, maybe, next week. The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kembi-Gitura): Not “maybe.” Give me an indication, please.

Do the Chairpersons have anything to say because this has taken an inordinately long time?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is true that the hon. Senator sought guidance on that matter. I want to respond to the hon. Senator as follows. Indeed, the criterion that was developed by the Commission on Revenue Allocation (CRA) to determine the counties that were entitled to the Equalisation Fund was shared after this Senate came into being. However, after discussions with the CRA, we have come to an understanding that the criterion will be reviewed in the next financial year. Once reviewed there is a likelihood, a good chance, that the hon. Senator’s county, Kitui, will be one of those that will benefit. Kitui, out of the 47 counties, in terms of marginalisation, based on the CRA formula was placed at No. 15. The Commission had drawn a line at No.14. It is our understanding that next year, God-willing, when the review is done, his county will fall among the ones that will be entitled to the Equalisation Fund. So, we seek the indulgence of the

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I appreciate the verbal report that has been given by the Chair of the Committee on Finance, Commerce and Economic Affairs. It is a practice of this House and all Houses in the world that such a report should be in writing. This gives an opportunity to other Legislators to ventilate on the matter. This was not a matter concerning Kitui. There were 21 counties that were classified as marginalised. Some of them were Homa Bay, Baringo and Kitui. We wanted the report to be brought to the House so that we discuss it. The Chair of the Committee has just given a verbal statement that cannot be taken to the bank. I request that you order that something in writing be brought to the House so that we debate the matter.

Sen. Billow, have you now given your statement?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, a statement was given here about a month ago, by my colleague, the Chair of the Committee on Devolved Government. Based on that statement, the hon. Senator was referred to a report by the CRA which sets out clearly the criterion used for determining the marginalised counties. The hon. Senator then sought the guidance of the Speaker on the case of his county, No.15, and what could be done. That is what I have responded to. We have agreed - even in discussions with the CRA - that even if this issue will be reviewed after every three years, then parameters for determining the County Allocation of Revenue and the ones for determining marginalised areas should also be reviewed by the Senate next year because this year, that is not practicable.

July 25, 2013

Next year, when that is reviewed, there is a good chance that his county will be included. Yes, that should be put in writing but, really, it is the position. My co- Chair of the Committee on Devolved Government would like to add something in that respect.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Although I was prepared to accept that 15 counties had been identified as marginalised areas, the Chancellor of the Exchequer referred to the fact that next year, we will still have marginalised counties. I want to bring to the attention of the Chancellor and this Senate that in this Constitution there is nothing like marginalised “counties”. What has to be identified are marginalised “areas”. Marginalised areas are not synonymous with marginalised counties. In other words, there may be some areas in Busia County which by using a natural yardstick would be considered marginalised. So, when we are looking at implementing the sections of the Constitution that refer to marginalised areas, I would wish that we think out of the box. All the areas in Kenya should be looked at so that we know which ones are marginalised. We may very well find out that---

July 25, 2013

But the Government is very serious and we sympathize with the bereaved families and the honorable Senator.

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Is it in order for us to keep on referring to marginalised counties when the Constitution talks about marginalised areas?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, is it in order for Sen. Haji to say that he keeps his PCs uniform and he could wear it anytime?

Sen. Murkomen, are you on a point of order?

Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

July 25, 2013

Thank you.

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kembi-Gitura): On what issue?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, pursuant to Standing Order No.97, I wish to move that this debate be now adjourned so that this House--- The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kembi-Gitura): Which debate?

July 25, 2013

No, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

So, the statement by Sen. Billow is not absolutely correct? Has there not been a statement?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I gave a verbal statement. We will lay this statement on the Table on Tuesday. However, it is more important to note that this issue was raised way before we had a public hearing on the Division of Revenue Bill. It was subjected to that debate when the Chair of the CRA came to the Committee meeting. So, the answer to that question, which is more appropriate, is contained in the report of the two Committees which was done after we dealt with the Division of Revenue Bill. We will table the report on Tuesday. Secondly, when the CRA came before the Committee, they came with a document that explained why they decided to have 14 counties for now. What has been referred to here by the Chairperson of the Committee on Finance, Commerce and Economic Affairs is explained there and is important.

Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. In fact, I was to be the first one to resume this debate; I had a balance of six minutes. But I also rise on a point of order under Standing Order No.97 – that this Debate be now adjourned – for the following reasons. I think many of us travel to Mombasa at this point in time. There are those who have to leave from about 5.30 p.m. and subsequent times. There is also the trip to Diani, where you have to cross the ferry which makes it quite lengthy. I do know quite a number of Senators will be travelling to Mombasa for this retreat together with the Council of Governors. The retreat is of a fundamental nature; it is extremely important for all the Senators and governors in terms of charting the way forward and in terms of the accountability processes and in terms of developing a framework for co-ordination and collaboration with the governors. Therefore, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I seek that this House grants leave to its Members before we are hit by quorum hitches and other hitches so that we can be able to prepare for these travels. On account of that proposal, I request Sen. Murkomen to second my Motion. Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kembi-Gitura): Before Sen. Murkomen does that, are you sure you are proceeding on the correct Standing Order, if I got you right on what you are saying? Do you want us to adjourn the debate or the House?

It is for the adjournment of the House. The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kembi-Gitura): Is that the correct Standing Order? Can you, please, consult and then tell me?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I wish to amend that. I wish to move the same Motion under Standing Order No.50(b) to seek the adjournment of the Senate so that we can be able to leave for our respective travels to Mombasa and Diani in its totality. Therefore, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for the reasons I had foresaid, I request

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise to support this Motion. It is important, for the record, to know that the Commission for the Implementation of the Constitution (CIC) organized a conference for all Senators and all Governors, and this conference is long overdue because we should have done it the first month we were elected. But because of other programmes and the commitments of the county governments, we were not able to do it. From tonight up to Sunday, we have a very important schedule whereby we are expected to discuss and deliberate on very weighty matters which, among others, relate to accountability measures, collaboration mechanisms relating to county governments and ensuring that we are also able to have input of Senators in what is happening within the counties. It is at that meeting that we are going to discuss various legislative amendments that will enable the various legislations to be more concrete in terms of the application to protecting and promoting devolution. We shall also discuss other matters, even those that include whatever constitutional amendments we may propose. So, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I think it is a very important meeting and I support this Adjournment Motion to enable all of us – because it is all of us who are going to travel – and I encourage all Senators to avail themselves because this is one unique meeting that brings together all the governors and Senators.

Give a statement. If this means that you have to lay a document on the Table, lay the document. However, have the statement signed so that we all take responsibility for.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we will lay the report on the Table on Tuesday afternoon.

July 25, 2013

Thank you very much. Is that satisfactory, Sen. Musila?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir,

Sen. Musila, they have said that they will give you a Statement on Tuesday afternoon. Is that satisfactory?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it will be satisfactory, as long as it is specifically on the Equalisation Fund.

Thank you, Senator. Hon. Senators, if you look at the appendix, there is a Statement by the Senate Majority Leader. Go on!

seek clarification. But I cannot allow you to ride on his back and ask for further things on top of that. I hope that you understand where I am coming from.

Much obliged, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I do understand and stand guided.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, on behalf of the Chair, I promise that we will give the Statement in the next two weeks. We had a meeting today and one of the---

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Two weeks is too long, because we have one arrogant Cabinet Secretary---

That is not a point of order. If you are saying that two weeks are not enough, then you need to let him finish.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I was saying two weeks in the sense that we had a Committee meeting today, and the Cabinet Secretary will report to the Committee next week on Thursday. It is one of the agenda items that we will deliberate on. So, we will include the issues that the Senator has raised, so that we can bring the Statement in two weeks time.

What date do you want us to take? That will be on 8th August. Shall we not be on recess?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Motion for Adjournment may be opposed. The Senators may refuse to go on recess.

Is there any way that you can bring it forward, Sen. Keter? We cannot ask Sen. Keter to do the impossible because if they will have a meeting with the Cabinet Secretary, and he can only derive his answer from their meeting with him, then we might be asking him to deal with a futility.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am saying so because it is a serious issue, and I understand my brother,

Sen. Sonko, are you agreeable to doing it on 8th August?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am not agreeable because we will go on recess on 1st August, unless he issues a directive on behalf of the Government, stopping all demolitions that are going on. I will repeat that the reason I am saying this is because – I am not debating but giving facts – we have one Cabinet Secretary, who is the only analogue Cabinet Secretary in our Jubilee digital Government. He is behaving as if he does not have a family. He is an arrogant Cabinet Secretary and I am sure that he is going to continue causing destruction by demolishing houses belonging to innocent landlords within my county. He is also demolishing churches and schools. He is a very useless Minister. Unless the Government issues a directive stopping all sorts of demolitions in Nairobi---

Sen. Keter, when will you give the Statement? Is it on 8th August?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I had said two weeks, but I would also like to seek a clarification. Is “useless” parliamentary language?

No, it is very unparliamentary.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, could Sen. Sonko withdraw?

Sen. Sonko, you are talking about a Minister of the Government. Therefore, that is very unparliamentary.

July 25, 2013

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, a fact is a fact. He is very arrogant. I can use the term “arrogant” instead of “useless.”

But, first of all, you have to withdraw and apologize for the first one!

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I withdraw and apologize.

Sen. Sonko, with a lot of respect, I think that we have to be careful. We are in the Senate and we do not want the words that we use to come back to haunt us.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, when it comes to leadership, we must serve our people. So, we must talk the truth. He is an arrogant Minister.

That Statement will be delivered on 8th August. Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo!

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I had sought a Statement two weeks ago and the Chair of the Committee on Finance was supposed to deliver it today.

Is Sen. Billow here?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, he sought a very detailed Statement on the expenditure on roads and infrastructure for 20 years. This is very extensive work and they are working on it. I seek the indulgence of the Senator until Tuesday next week, when we should be able to give him some answer.

Is that okay, Sen. Hargura?

It is okay, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Thank you very much. Sen. Ndiema!

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, last week, I sought a Statement from the Chairman of the Committee on National Security and Foreign Relations, relating to the security situation in Trans Nzoia County, and I have not received a copy of any Statement.

Was the Statement due today? Sen. Haji!

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Statement is not ready because on Thursday, many Statements were requested for and are being worked on. We will answer, maybe, next week.

Not “maybe.” Give me an indication, please.

Thursday next week, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Sen. Ndiema, is that okay?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, security is of a lot of concern. People are worried about what will happen next. I wish that this matter could be taken more seriously and if possible, the Statement given much earlier.

He has requested to deliver it on Thursday next week. To me, that sounds reasonable. The difference now is that the Committee Chair has to seek this information from a third party and then bring it back to us. It is not like when we used to have Ministers, who were sitting with us, giving answers. So, I think that we need to appreciate that even the Committee Chair is going to seek that information, take it through his Committee and then bring it back to us. So, I think that Thursday is reasonable.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I stand advised.

Thank you. Sen. Khalwale!

July 25, 2013

July 25, 2013

July 25, 2013

But the Government is very serious and we sympathize with the bereaved families and the honorable Senator.

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Is it on the issue before us?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, is it in order for Sen. Haji to say that he keeps his PCs uniform and he could wear it anytime?

Sen. (Prof.) Anyang’Nyong’o: On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I asked for a Statement but it has not been delivered.

Senator, I did not even know you were standing. If you have a point of order, please come at the front so that you can be recorded properly, Sen. (Prof.) Anyang’Nyong’o. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, Sen. (Prof.) Anyang’Nyong’o: Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I asked for a Statement on a road that connects Kisumu and Siaya Counties and the Statement was supposed to be issued today. So, I was wondering what the status of this Statement is; if it is going to be issued on another day, whether I could be given the assurances.

Was it directed to the Chair of the Committee on roads and transport? I cannot see it on the schedule of the Statements pending. Yes, Sen. Keter?

We can read that Statement on Thursday, next week.

I apologize, Sen. (Prof.) Anyang’Nyong’o; it is not on the schedule, but I am told it is a mistake of the secretariat. So, is Thursday next week good with you?

July 25, 2013

Thank you.

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

On what issue?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, pursuant to Standing Order No.97, I wish to move that this debate be now adjourned so that this House---

Which debate?

That is the coming debate. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the reason I move this Motion, pursuant to this Standing Order---

Just a minute, Senator! Order! Are we through with Statements? If we are then, can you call the next Order?

Now, this is the Motion by Sen. Mutahi Kagwe, which has a balance of one hour, twenty minutes and which is supposed to resume this afternoon.

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Are you on a point of order on that position?

July 25, 2013

Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. In fact, I was to be the first one to resume this debate; I had a balance of six minutes. But I also rise on a point of order under Standing Order No.97 – that this Debate be now adjourned – for the following reasons. I think many of us travel to Mombasa at this point in time. There are those who have to leave from about 5.30 p.m. and subsequent times. There is also the trip to Diani, where you have to cross the ferry which makes it quite lengthy. I do know quite a number of Senators will be travelling to Mombasa for this retreat together with the Council of Governors. The retreat is of a fundamental nature; it is extremely important for all the Senators and governors in terms of charting the way forward and in terms of the accountability processes and in terms of developing a framework for co-ordination and collaboration with the governors. Therefore, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I seek that this House grants leave to its Members before we are hit by quorum hitches and other hitches so that we can be able to prepare for these travels. On account of that proposal, I request Sen. Murkomen to second my Motion. Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Before Sen. Murkomen does that, are you sure you are proceeding on the correct Standing Order, if I got you right on what you are saying? Do you want us to adjourn the debate or the House?

It is for the adjournment of the House.

Is that the correct Standing Order? Can you, please, consult and then tell me?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I wish to amend that. I wish to move the same Motion under Standing Order No.50(b) to seek the adjournment of the Senate so that we can be able to leave for our respective travels to Mombasa and Diani in its totality. Therefore, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for the reasons I had foresaid, I request

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise to support this Motion. It is important, for the record, to know that the Commission for the Implementation of the Constitution (CIC) organized a conference for all Senators and all Governors, and this conference is long overdue because we should have done it the first month we were elected. But because of other programmes and the commitments of the county governments, we were not able to do it. From tonight up to Sunday, we have a very important schedule whereby we are expected to discuss and deliberate on very weighty matters which, among others, relate to accountability measures, collaboration mechanisms relating to county governments and ensuring that we are also able to have input of Senators in what is happening within the counties. It is at that meeting that we are going to discuss various legislative amendments that will enable the various legislations to be more concrete in terms of the application to protecting and promoting devolution. We shall also discuss other matters, even those that include whatever constitutional amendments we may propose. So, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I think it is a very important meeting and I support this Adjournment Motion to enable all of us – because it is all of us who are going to travel – and I encourage all Senators to avail themselves because this is one unique meeting that brings together all the governors and Senators.

July 25, 2013