Thursday, 21st July, 2016

Hon. Senators, I wish to recognise the presence of visiting students and coordinators from Universidad Pontificia Comillas, Madrid, Spain who are in Kenya for three weeks on a programme dubbed ‘Inside Kenya’ which is hosted by Hekima Institute of Peace Studies and International Relations (HIPSIR) .

They are seated at the Speaker’s Gallery and they are as follows:- Mr. Carlos Martinez Coordinator Ms. Angela De Hoyos Coordinator Ms. Maria Perez Student Ms. Elena Fatou Student Ms. Ingrid Garcia Student Ms. Raquel Fernandez Student Ms. Sonia Leon Student Ms. Laura Garcia Student Ms. Macarena Mestanza Student Ms. Lucia Martin Student Ms. Laura Morillas Student Ms. Angela Sevillano Student Ms. LinseyAgai Coordinator, Kenya In our usual tradition of receiving and welcoming visitors to our Parliament, I wish to extend a warm welcome to them and, on your behalf and on my own behalf, I wish to wish them a fruitful visit.

Thank you.

Thank you Mr. Speaker Sir. May I also extend a warm welcome to the students and coordinators from Madrid in Spain. Welcome to Kenya. It is a beautiful country as you might have already found out. I think the sort of engagement you are getting into is key to us.

We appreciate that you have been in touch with HIPSIR and that you are specifically targeting areas of peace studies. As you might know, we are always looking for that sort of equilibrium and working hard towards it in this country.

I hope that during your interaction with the people that you are going to talk with, you will pass some information and share experiences of the two countries. Karibuni Kenya and enjoy yourselves. We appreciate that you have also come to the Senate of Kenya to see how we conduct our deliberation.

The Senate Leader of Minority (Sen. Wetangula): Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I also join you and the House in welcoming the visiting students and their leader and to encourage them to feel at home in this “Upper House” of Parliament of the Republic of Kenya. Although Spain is in Europe, it is also a young democracy like us having come to democracy when my good friend Felipe Gonzalez swept to power sometime back.

I appreciate the Spanish football and I am a fun of Barcelona Football Club which we cherish very much in this country. We want to see that emerging democracies in developed regions can share experiences and good practices with us to see that democracy becomes the norm rather than the exception.

I also salute HIPSIR that we have been working with very closely as a Parliament. As they say in Spain, muchos gracias.

Thank you Mr. Speaker, Sir. I also wish to welcome them as you have done. I am delighted because I can see that all of them are ladies except one. I know those are very serious people and they are the future Prime Ministers and Presidents of that Republic. I wish you well and I hope you shall learn from the best that you can get.

I am corrected that you do not have a President but a Kingdom but I know you will be the leaders of whichever position you have. Welcome, feel at home and I hope we shall network the next time we join you in your country.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I also join you and the House in welcoming the visiting students and their leader and to encourage them to feel at home in this “Upper House” of Parliament of the Republic of Kenya. Although Spain is in Europe, it is also a young democracy like us having come to democracy when my good friend Felipe Gonzalez swept to power sometime back.I appreciate the Spanish football and I am a fun of Barcelona Football Club which we cherish very much in this country. We want to see that emerging democracies in developed regions can share experiences and good practices with us to see that democracy becomes the norm rather than the exception.I also salute HIPSIR that we have been working with very closely as a Parliament. As they say in Spain, muchos gracias.

Thank you Mr. Speaker, Sir. I also wish to welcome them as you have done. I am delighted because I can see that all of them are ladies except one. I know those are very serious people and they are the future Prime Ministers and Presidents of that Republic. I wish you well and I hope you shall learn from the best that you can get.

I am corrected that you do not have a President but a Kingdom but I know you will be the leaders of whichever position you have. Welcome, feel at home and I hope we shall network the next time we join you in your country.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. May I also join you in congratulating the delegation from Spain. I notice that these are young people who have come to our country to study our political democracy. I want to assure you that the democracy in Kenya is extremely vibrant. We have two major political parties namely the Jubilee Party and the Coalition for Reforms and Democracy (CORD) that are very strong coalitions. The political parties are very vibrant which is clearly seen in the exchanges in this House. In the Senate, being the “Upper House”, we take a bipartisan stand on issues which we come across, especially issues that are of national importance. I hope you are going to learn our sense of democracy and how we practice it.

I also want to congratulate HIPSIR for the good work that they are doing. We want them to also ensure that they do an exchange program for our African students to other European countries so that they can also learn similar practices.

Thank you.

because this is a beautiful country and I hope next time you will have---

Oh! They are from Spain. I hope that some of you will remain behind. You should also add the number of males because I can see that you only have one male around you. Thank you very much for coming. This is a very generous country.

Oh! They are from Spain. I hope that some of you will remain behind. You should also add the number of males because I can see that you only have one male around you. Thank you very much for coming. This is a very generous country.

We will finally hear from Sen. Karaba, the Chairman of the Education Committee.

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for allowing the Chairman of the Education Committee to contribute and welcome my colleagues, friends and students from Spain. Spain is a very significant country in this world because without Spain we would not be talking about the partition and scramble for Africa. It is Spain which has facilitated and pioneered the struggle and the discovery of the continent.

Initially, it was supposed to be one continent called Europa and it is Spain which made sure that they discovered Africa, America and so forth. Through Christopher Columbus, we salute Spain. When you get to Candice which is a Port of Spain, greet the great sailors of this world.

Thank you.

I am sure you have not been to that Port but you know it through your Geography.

I know it, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to lay the following Paper on the Table of the Senate today, Thursday, 21st July, 2016:-

The Teachers’ Service Commission Strategic Plan for the period 2015-2019.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to lay the following Paper on the Table of the Senate today, Thursday, 21st July, 2016:-

The Teachers’ Service Commission Strategic Plan for the period 2015-2019.

Since the answer has not been given, through your intervention, I request for an answer today.

Since the answer has not been given, through your intervention, I request for an answer today.

Is that the same one you asked for on Tuesday?

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

What were my directions?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, you never gave any directions because we had a lot of business in the House.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, pursuant to Standing Order No.45 (2) (b) I rise to seek a statement from the Chairperson of the Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget. In the Statement, the Chairperson should explain the following:-

Mr. Speaker, Sir, pursuant to Standing Order No.45 (2) (b) I rise to seek a statement from the Chairperson of the Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget. In the Statement, the Chairperson should explain the following:-

Chairperson, that is a full plate for you but very significant too.

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir. This is a very important Statement sought by the Senators. The question on the EPA has been a vexing one particularly in the context of the EAC because agreements are now supposed to be signed as East African Corporation. That has been a challenge because some of the countries like Tanzania and Burundi have not been very cooperative.

Therefore, due to the importance of this, we will need a bit of time. I seek the indulgence of the Senator to respond by Thursday next week. I also urge the Clerks to expedite the dispatch of the letter so that by Thursday before the House goes on recess we can respond to it.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, in view of the urgency of this matter, we must appreciate what happened in 2014 when there was a delay in the signing of the agreement between ourselves and the EU. Famers all over the country, especially flower farmers, suffered and went through a very difficult period. Now, given the importance of this issue and the ongoing discussions on this matter, as we speak just across the road, the chairman should bring the Statement as quickly as possible, possibly on Tuesday. Alternatively he can invite the Cabinet Secretary (CS) concerned into the House as a matter of urgency so that she can respond to these issues.

Chairperson, give us your thoughts before I dispose the matter.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is one of the subjects being discussed at the UNCTAD. However, it is appropriate to get a comprehensive report which would require our committee to sit with the relevant CS and interrogate this matter properly and give a very informed response on the matter.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.45 (2) (b) to seek a Statement from the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget on the operations the Women Enterprise Fund. In the Statement, I seek the following information:-

counties in the last three years?

counties in the last three years?

What is it, Sen. Wetangula, Leader of the Minority? The Senate Minority Leader (

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I stand corrected. I am sorry I did not hear that it was per county. If that is the case then that is in order.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, noting that we are in devolution now, where we have elected Members of the County Assemblies (MCAs) , Members of the National Assembly, Women Representatives, Governors and Senators, could the Chairperson table a document that shows how these respective offices get to know how many women groups in their respective constituencies have benefitted per year?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, could the Chairperson also explain to this House the interest rates that are charged to those loans and whether they are commercial or interest rates given strictly by the Government. If, indeed, they are lent by the banks, what percentage of the interest rates charged to the women groups is kept by the banks, which banks and how much of it is going back to the Government?

Sen. Sang!

Mr. Speaker, Sir, as the Chairperson responds to the statement, I would also like to seek a rider. I know that various counties have developed similar

Mr. Speaker, Sir, could the Chairperson also explain to this House the interest rates that are charged to those loans and whether they are commercial or interest rates given strictly by the Government. If, indeed, they are lent by the banks, what percentage of the interest rates charged to the women groups is kept by the banks, which banks and how much of it is going back to the Government?

Sen. Sang!

the women fund is factored into county government budgets to ensure that they synchronize in terms of the disbursements that they give to the women?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I wonder whether from the source where the Women Fund was mooted, we can go back and moot one for men so that we can have a men fund as well. Very many men are languishing in poverty.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Women Enterprise Fund was set up by Parliament and is funded from the national revenue. A couple of the questions that have been sought are readily available on the website of the Fund. The details of the counties as well as details of some of the things that have been requested are in the annual reports that are submitted to both Houses of Parliament. Nonetheless, I will seek the indulgence of the House to give response in two weeks because of the many interventions especially on the interest rates---

Order, Chairperson! If you had asked for the two weeks immediately, I would have been sympathetic. However, given the preface, the information is readily available on the website, you do not require two weeks. I will give you one week. You will give a response on Thursday next week.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, in the meantime, I urge Members to look for some of the basic information which is available on the website of the Fund.

Chairperson, I hope that you will also attempt to get the response for the House.

Order, Chairperson! If you had asked for the two weeks immediately, I would have been sympathetic. However, given the preface, the information is readily available on the website, you do not require two weeks. I will give you one week. You will give a response on Thursday next week.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I join you in welcoming these pupils. I congratulate the school management and the head teacher for having considered bringing

Chairperson, I hope that you will also attempt to get the response for the House.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I join you in welcoming these pupils. I congratulate the school management and the head teacher for having considered bringing

would like to find one of them in the Senate. The idea of bringing pupils to the Senate is so as to nurture them to start thinking big as leaders and to know how leadership is handled at the highest level.

Embu County has two of the 42 tribes of Kenya. These pupils come from the drier part of Embu County. That means that they have not had the luxury to learn a lot about Kenya the way they are learning it at the highest level today. I would like to appreciate the motivation that they have been given by their teachers so that they can pass well in their Kenya Certificate of Primary School (KCPE) and go forth to become Kenyan leaders.

I welcome them.

Asante sana, Bw. Spika. Ninachukua fursa hii pia kuwakaribisha wanafunzi hawa. Nilipata motisha ya kuwa Mbunge wakati nilitembelea Bunge nilipokuwa katika shule ya msingi. Wanafunzi hawa pia wanaweza kukalia viti tunavyokalia leo. Wasichana na wavulana wote wana huo uwezo. Ninawakaribisha katika Bunge la Seneti nikiwahimiza waige yale mazuri watakayoona hapa. Yale mabaya wayaache yatokomee papa hapa.

Sen. Wangari, kwani kuna mabaya yapi?

Please, proceed.

Did you get the response today?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have been having it for the last two months.

Please, proceed.

Let us allow Sen. Njoroge first, and then I will get back to you.

What is it, Sen. M. Kajwang? Do you want to seek clarifications?

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Let us allow Sen. Njoroge first, and then I will get back to you.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I thank the Chairperson for the detailed response. However, I would like to seek clarification on two issues. The Chairperson has indicated that the Commission has received complaints regarding the recruitment exercise. I would like to find out how many of the complaints relate to bribery or corruption. I have received complaints from young men and women who attempted to join the police force through this recruitment and it was clearly indicated to them that if they did not have Kshs200,000, they would not join the police force.

I would also like the Chairperson to clarify to this House: Does the police service have an ombudsman, an office or centre where some of these complaints can be directed to? When they are brought to me as a Senator, all I can do is bring them to the Floor of this House. Is there an ombudsman or a point where young people who have been asked to bribe to get into the police service can be sorted out?

Finally, we will look at the Recruitment Guidelines which the Chairperson has tabled. Every time recruitment to the police service or the armed forces is done, young men and women are asked to run, jump, undress, flash their teeth and do some other things that the colonial police used to do. In this modern world, at what point will be police service review their recruitment guidelines so that they recruit people on the basis of modern competencies not on the basis of the colour of their teeth? There are some young men and women who grow up in areas where the water is contaminated. As a result, their teeth get discoloured. They cannot join the police service because of archaic recruitment guidelines. When will these issues ever be addressed?

I cannot help but agree more. There are things that you can do something about while there are those that are as they are. Why should you discriminate on the basis of where I come from?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the police service in this country has been rated the most corrupt, year in year out. Whenever such issues arise, it takes long to get the grievances of individuals, including would-be, recruits to be addressed. The Chairperson has talked about publishing names, months after the recruitment. Will that help? It will not. There should be internal control mechanisms. The police talk about reforms. They have desks for complaints. Is there a shorter way in which this matter

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I thank the Chairperson for the detailed response. However, I would like to seek clarification on two issues. The Chairperson has indicated that the Commission has received complaints regarding the recruitment exercise. I would like to find out how many of the complaints relate to bribery or corruption. I have received complaints from young men and women who attempted to join the police force through this recruitment and it was clearly indicated to them that if they did not have Kshs200,000, they would not join the police force.

I would also like the Chairperson to clarify to this House: Does the police service have an ombudsman, an office or centre where some of these complaints can be directed to? When they are brought to me as a Senator, all I can do is bring them to the Floor of this House. Is there an ombudsman or a point where young people who have been asked to bribe to get into the police service can be sorted out?

Finally, we will look at the Recruitment Guidelines which the Chairperson has tabled. Every time recruitment to the police service or the armed forces is done, young men and women are asked to run, jump, undress, flash their teeth and do some other things that the colonial police used to do. In this modern world, at what point will be police service review their recruitment guidelines so that they recruit people on the basis of modern competencies not on the basis of the colour of their teeth? There are some young men and women who grow up in areas where the water is contaminated. As a result, their teeth get discoloured. They cannot join the police service because of archaic recruitment guidelines. When will these issues ever be addressed?

I cannot help but agree more. There are things that you can do something about while there are those that are as they are. Why should you discriminate on the basis of where I come from?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the police service in this country has been rated the most corrupt, year in year out. Whenever such issues arise, it takes long to get the grievances of individuals, including would-be, recruits to be addressed. The Chairperson has talked about publishing names, months after the recruitment. Will that help? It will not. There should be internal control mechanisms. The police talk about reforms. They have desks for complaints. Is there a shorter way in which this matter

Mr. Speaker, Sir, some of the conditions to be considered before you are recruited to the police force are archaic in the sense that they do not seem to consider Africans as potential soldiers. Imagine when somebody is said to be 5 feet 8 inches tall. What happens to the Taita who are about four or five feet tall?

We also recruit police long after the students have left school when they have already “tasted” so many things such as drugs. Why do we not consider recruitment to the police force immediately the students leave Form Four, by which time they will not be polluted and they will be keen and will have known what it means to be patriotic soldiers.

Lastly, why do we not recruit the police from the National Youth Service as a way of commendation to those youth who have done very well in carrying out national tasks instead of having direct recruitment as it is now done?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, over a week ago, one police man went berserk and killed his colleagues in Kapenguria Police Headquarters. It is alleged that he was an Al Shabaab sympathizer. He has served for two years in the police service. Could the Chairperson tell us what stringent criteria have been put in place to identify a priori these Kenyans that are already in these vices so that they do not find themselves in the police service? They could be more dangerous in future.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the police force in this country is enjoying a very dirty image. The other day, the distinguished Senator for Nyeri, talked about the manner of training and the need for continuous training to keep the police force abreast with the changing circumstances under which they operate.

You saw what happened in Kapenguria last week. Yesterday, there was a story of a policeman who dressed himself in a gunny bag and stood outside a police station in Langata the whole day, demanding to have audience with the Inspector-General (IG) of Police. As a policeman, I am sure he knows where the office of the IG is; it is not at the Langata Police Station.

Could the chairman tell the country what we are going to do to rationalize and improve the process of recruitment into the police, including removing the bottlenecks that the distinguished Senator for Homa Bay has cited?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, last year in Kisii County, Sen. Obure and Sen. Ong’era can bear me witness, a man collapsed and died because he sold land and bribed the recruitment officers with Kshs300,000, to recruit his son, but when he went to Kiganjo, he was not on the list. He sold the family possession, collapsed and died.

How are we going to weed out this cutting of corners, corruption and so on? What happens is that when a family buys a position for the son to join the police, he is instructed to be corrupt in order to bring back the family land that was sold. They, therefore, think that is a way of life.

The Vice- Chairperson. Sen. Adan Adan.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, this Statement was ready from May, 11th, 2016. The fault, therefore, is not with the Committee or with the National Police Service

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the police force in this country is enjoying a very dirty image. The other day, the distinguished Senator for Nyeri, talked about the manner of training and the need for continuous training to keep the police force abreast with the changing circumstances under which they operate.

You saw what happened in Kapenguria last week. Yesterday, there was a story of a policeman who dressed himself in a gunny bag and stood outside a police station in Langata the whole day, demanding to have audience with the Inspector-General (IG) of Police. As a policeman, I am sure he knows where the office of the IG is; it is not at the Langata Police Station.

Could the chairman tell the country what we are going to do to rationalize and improve the process of recruitment into the police, including removing the bottlenecks that the distinguished Senator for Homa Bay has cited?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, last year in Kisii County, Sen. Obure and Sen. Ong’era can bear me witness, a man collapsed and died because he sold land and bribed the recruitment officers with Kshs300,000, to recruit his son, but when he went to Kiganjo, he was not on the list. He sold the family possession, collapsed and died.

How are we going to weed out this cutting of corners, corruption and so on? What happens is that when a family buys a position for the son to join the police, he is instructed to be corrupt in order to bring back the family land that was sold. They, therefore, think that is a way of life.

The Vice- Chairperson. Sen. Adan Adan.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, this Statement was ready from May, 11th, 2016. The fault, therefore, is not with the Committee or with the National Police Service

When you absolve the Committee and the Ministry, then you should also allocate blame somewhere.

Proceed.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would ask the NPSC to publish the names of those who were recruited as quickly as possible whether it is expensive or not. I do not know who will give direction in this case because I am hearing murmurs from both sides. The question is why the names have not been published. This is a matter which I will discuss with the NPSC and see a possible way of ensuring that the list has reached the public.

I believe there is a complaints office--- On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

What is it, Sen. Njoroge? Mr. Speaker, Sir, the publishing of the names was supposed to be done before the recruits joined the college, which is procedure. It was supposed to be done in one of the dailies as a requirement. It lacks any merit for the Vice-Chairperson to say that it is late. There are those complaints which the NPSC has confirmed receiving; that some names were omitted when the recruitment was concluded after they had already succeeded at the grassroots.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, my view is that this is a very important issue that we are canvassing here. It cuts across the 47 counties. What Sen. Wetangula said is true. Those cases are there and there is rampant corruption in the recruitment. We have seen policemen being vetted and dragged through the mud and yet nothing comes out of it.

Why can the relevant Committee of the Senate not summon the NPSC and the IG and whoever is responsible for recruitment to come here and tell us all those issues; why it is happening, why every time there is a recruitment people lose their lives and are misused?

In the olden days, for example, in Murang’a where I come from, we had very brown teeth due to the high level of fluoride in water. If that is a reason to disqualify a person from joining the police force, it is ridiculous. We may canvass these issues here and not get the answer. The Vice-Chairperson may not have the answer. Why can the Chair not direct that the relevant government officers come here and give us the answers, once and for all?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would ask the NPSC to publish the names of those who were recruited as quickly as possible whether it is expensive or not. I do not know who will give direction in this case because I am hearing murmurs from both sides. The question is why the names have not been published. This is a matter which I will discuss with the NPSC and see a possible way of ensuring that the list has reached the public.

I believe there is a complaints office--- On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

What is it, Sen. Njoroge? Mr. Speaker, Sir, the publishing of the names was supposed to be done before the recruits joined the college, which is procedure. It was supposed to be done in one of the dailies as a requirement. It lacks any merit for the Vice-Chairperson to say that it is late. There are those complaints which the NPSC has confirmed receiving; that some names were omitted when the recruitment was concluded after they had already succeeded at the grassroots.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am not going to talk about the teeth. Obviously, everyone who goes to a police station and expects to see a smiling policeman--- I would think in the context of publishing 10,000 names on dailies. As a House, we need to look at alternatives like putting the names on the police website rather than---

What is it Sen. Billow?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the issue of security is one that needs a lot of care and looking into. The issue of police recruitment has become a matter which is not well addressed every now and then. If the police officer is recruited through corruption, is the product of discrimination and pervasiveness, there is no day we will get what we expected from the police---

Order, Sen. Bule. This is Statement Hour.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, let me come to the point of what I am trying to say. Mr. Speaker, Sir, we are no longer in times where the police officers were handpicked or recruited through remote control from the top. We need to have a system where the locals identify the right people who fit because the communities living in the given area were not given the opportunity to say who deserved to be employed or who has the---

Order, Sen. Bule, just conclude there.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Listening to the Deputy Speaker’s proposal, I tend to think that the questions we have raised may not be sufficiently addressed by the Vice Chair. I tend to think so because publicizing their names in the dailies will not be a solution. The reason for us to raise all this is to---

Order!

Mr. Speaker, Sir, could I finish?

Order, you cannot just finish the way you want.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, just allow me to finish. If, getting the entire group to be mentioned will be a solution for the future, can we go that route?

Order, Members, I really thought that the Senator for Murang’a spoke out of turn. You sought clarifications and you should let the Vice Chair respond to them then you will reach the verdict on the basis of the responses. You are now taking a dangerous path of having no faith in your own committees. That should come after the full submissions have been responded to by the Chair, then we will know what has been satisfied and what has not.

The Senate Minority Leader (Sen. Wetangula) : On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I know you have already indicated your thinking and direction but I first wish to thank Sen. Njoroge for bringing the question. However, the supplementary

Order, you cannot just finish the way you want.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, just allow me to finish. If, getting the entire group to be mentioned will be a solution for the future, can we go that route?

Order, Members, I really thought that the Senator for Murang’a spoke out of turn. You sought clarifications and you should let the Vice Chair respond to them then you will reach the verdict on the basis of the responses. You are now taking a dangerous path of having no faith in your own committees. That should come after the full submissions have been responded to by the Chair, then we will know what has been satisfied and what has not. The Senate Minority Leader (

Order, Vice Chair, neither can you confirm there is a complaints office because Sen. M. Kajwang’s clarification was actually on an ombudsman which is very necessary for the police, just like the Judiciary has one.

to the extent that it looks like an issue which, this House needs to deal with, as the protector and defender of counties, their governments and their people that live therein from where recruitments are done and upon whom corruption is revisited during the recruitments.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I must confess that I am also a Member of the same Committee. However, Sen. Adan is unlikely to respond to all the issues that we have been raised for the simple reason that she was only asked about the publication of the list yet we need to improve the image of the police.

that we can look at and advise the NPSC that we need amendments to various issues that have been raised by Members in this House. That is my position regarding the regulations.

Regarding the issue of shorter ways of addressing issues, I might not be able to respond to that because I do not know the complaints mechanisms within the NPSC. However, I will go by the request made by the Senate Minority Leader and the Deputy Speaker who is the Senator for Murang’a County, that we can summon Kavuludi’s Commission and the Inspector General to respond to some of the issues which I believe they will be able to answer exhaustively.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I thank you.

This matter is expended. Therefore, let us wait for the next course of action.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. My proposal to the Vice Chair is that when Mr. Kavuludi comes, we should also discuss the matter of background checks on the recruitment process, given the set of individuals who are now threatening police forces and the possibility of even recruiting radicalised individuals.

Order Sen. Kagwe! I am afraid there is nothing new there. All you needed was to listen to your good neighbour, the Senator for West Pokot County; he said as much. He even dramatized it better given the incident of last week in his county.

that we can look at and advise the NPSC that we need amendments to various issues that have been raised by Members in this House. That is my position regarding the regulations.

Regarding the issue of shorter ways of addressing issues, I might not be able to respond to that because I do not know the complaints mechanisms within the NPSC. However, I will go by the request made by the Senate Minority Leader and the Deputy Speaker who is the Senator for Murang’a County, that we can summon Kavuludi’s Commission and the Inspector General to respond to some of the issues which I believe they will be able to answer exhaustively.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I thank you.

This matter is expended. Therefore, let us wait for the next course of action.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. My proposal to the Vice Chair is that when Mr. Kavuludi comes, we should also discuss the matter of background checks on the recruitment process, given the set of individuals who are now threatening police forces and the possibility of even recruiting radicalised individuals.

Order Sen. Kagwe! I am afraid there is nothing new there. All you needed was to listen to your good neighbour, the Senator for West Pokot County; he said as much. He even dramatized it better given the incident of last week in his county.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

I am here Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Thank you Mr. Speaker, Sir. Mine is just to remind the Chair about a month ago, I requested for a statement to understand why, for the last two to three years, the Administration Police (AP) have not been promoted. If that is answered, it will divide the country and the conflicts that we have been seeing in between the “blue force” and the APs.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have Sen. Elachi’s answer but have we really concluded on the earlier statement? I think we have not. May be I would have to request the Inspector-General of Police and his team to come next week before we go for a recess, if that is agreeable.

That is so directed. Members, we are not doing well with time. Statement 2 (a) , since the Member is not here, we will push it to Tuesday next week.

I am here Mr. Speaker, Sir.

She just mentioned to me, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is not fair for Sen. Sang to deny that I discussed with him and I had even shown him the message that I had written to the Principle Secretary telling him that I have tried my best. Nevertheless, I will request Sen. Sang to give us some time until next week so that we can respond to this statement.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I cannot confirm because I just asked Sen. Adan if she had a written statement and she told me she does not have it but that she was going to give proper explanations as to why she does not have the statement on the Floor. I am expecting to hear that from her.

But you heard her say “discussed”. That does not amount a discussion.

She just mentioned to me, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

I just saw him from far, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Let me confirm to him that I spoke to the Cabinet Secretary and the Permanent Secretary this morning stressing the urgency of this matter but up to now I have not received the response. I am kindly requesting Sen. Sang to give us up to next week to get this answer from the Ministry.

Order, Senators. This is a very grave matter. I direct the Committee to issue this statement on Tuesday. Failure to do so, serious sanctions will be made against the Committee and the Cabinet Secretary with a view to considering them as conspirators in the disappearing act. We are dealing with people who have already disappeared; they could have been abducted and killed. That should really worry us. What is it, Sen. Kembi-Gitura?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I agree with the Senator for Murang’a County. Personally, I have walked to these offices to try and get answers from relevant ministries but it is important for Members also to understand the efforts we are putting in as a Committee because we have made our efforts. Those who should be held responsible are the relevant officers. We will try our best as a Committee to answer---

Let me help you. One way to discharge your obligation is to bring a Censure Motion on the responsible officers. That way, you will confirm to the House that you did your best because we employ civil servants for purpose of delivering and some matters are very grave. They need to be attended to like yesterday. I will need to refer to Article 47 of the Constitution on Administrative Action; they must be efficient, expedient and timely. We do not want to be reading post-mortems. Let us save others if they can still be found.

Order, Members! Senate Majority Leader! Before Sen. Wetangula gives the Business of the Senate for the week, let us allow Sen. Sijeny on Statement 2 (b) .

Mr. Speaker, Sir, let me confirm to the House that, first, it is very wrong for Sen. Sang to say that I had a discussion with the Cabinet Secretary yesterday. I have not even met him but I just saw him at the airport. Having said that, I know this is a very sensitive matter---

It depends on how you saw him.

I just saw him from far, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Let me confirm to him that I spoke to the Cabinet Secretary and the Permanent Secretary this morning stressing the urgency of this matter but up to now I have not received the response. I am kindly requesting Sen. Sang to give us up to next week to get this answer from the Ministry.

Order, Senators. This is a very grave matter. I direct the Committee to issue this statement on Tuesday. Failure to do so, serious sanctions will be made against the Committee and the Cabinet Secretary with a view to considering them as conspirators in the disappearing act. We are dealing with people who have already disappeared; they could have been abducted and killed. That should really worry us. What is it, Sen. Kembi-Gitura?

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I agree with your sanctioned ruling but some of us are Members of the Committee and we do not know on what basis you would sanction us on the issue. I think it has to be clear that it has to be the Chairperson and not the Committee because I sit in that committee and I am not culpable. So, I think it is good to correct it for HANSARD purposes.

I was informed--- on the time of the abortive coup of 1982, that you were accused of failing to prevent the coup. Since you have put out the case, we will consider every case at that particular time on its own merit.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I agree with the Senator for Murang’a County. Personally, I have walked to these offices to try and get answers from relevant ministries but it is important for Members also to understand the efforts we are putting in as a Committee because we have made our efforts. Those who should be held responsible are the relevant officers. We will try our best as a Committee to answer---

Let me help you. One way to discharge your obligation is to bring a Censure Motion on the responsible officers. That way, you will confirm to the House that you did your best because we employ civil servants for purpose of delivering and some matters are very grave. They need to be attended to like yesterday. I will need to refer to Article 47 of the Constitution on Administrative Action; they must be efficient, expedient and timely. We do not want to be reading post-mortems. Let us save others if they can still be found.

Order, Members! Senate Majority Leader! Before Sen. Wetangula gives the Business of the Senate for the week, let us allow Sen. Sijeny on Statement 2 (b) .

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I sort for this Statement from the Chairperson of the Committee on Health on 16th June, 2016. He had been compelled to issue the Statement today, but I neither see him nor the Vice Chairperson of the Committee. However, the Senate Majority Whip who had given the undertaking is present. This is an urgent issue.

Sen. Wetangula, I plead with you, in the interest of time and also for the subject to be interrogated better, that we put it on the Order Paper on Tuesday. You will have looked at the document and can do a better job.

The Senate Minority Leader (Sen. Wetangula): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I oblige. It will be a good idea if we start with it on Tuesday because of the interest that that matter attracted. In fact, this morning I had a meeting with the Assistant Secretary of State for the United States of America (USA) and half the time we discussed about the situation in South Sudan.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I briefed the acting Chairperson of the Committee on Health, because the Chairperson has not been in the House for a while and the Vice Chairperson is also not around. I thought that Sen. (Dr.) Machage would have helped at that time, but he is also not in the House. I would like to ask Sen. Sijeny to give us up to Tuesday. It means that I will have to go for the statement myself and deliver it next Tuesday.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. This is a very serious matter. We are talking about the health of women. As we know, quite a number of women in these hospitals share beds. This is a serious matter and I feel that this Committee is not taking it seriously. I request you to rule on this matter, because it is not the first time that we are requesting for this Statement. Sen. Sijeny requested for it but no answer came. In fact, at that time, if you recall, there was not even one Member of that Committee in the House and that is why the Majority Whip made that undertaking. We seek your direction on this matter. Hon. Members, let us give the Whip up to Tuesday. Sen. Ong’era, I will revisit your request on Tuesday. I would like to remind Sen. Elachi that there is something called responsibility and collective responsibility, as used to be said. You were given this mandate by the virtue of the office that you are holding. It was up to you, on behalf of the House, to ensure that the Chairperson, Vice Chairperson or any Member of the Committee delivers the Statement. For you to be reminded, it is just falling into the same problem with the ones that you are accusing of being absent. You should have been proactive. Now that you have only a weekend, we will confirm your position by Tuesday. Let us now move to the Statement on the Business of the Senate for the coming week by the Senate Minority Leader. The Senate Minority Leader (

Mr. Speaker, Sir, before I do that, you directed very firmly that the Statement I sought on the situation in South Sudan be issued yesterday or latest today. Sen. Adan had indicated to me that she was awaiting the Statement. I do not know what direction you would give. I know that we have run dangerously out of time. Sen. Adan, do you have the Statement?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have just received the Statement. If you can allow me to issue it, that is fine, but Sen. Wetangula has not seen it.

Sen. Wetangula, I plead with you, in the interest of time and also for the subject to be interrogated better, that we put it on the Order Paper on Tuesday. You will have looked at the document and can do a better job.

- THAT, New Clause 1A be read a Second Time. The Chairperson (Sen. Kembi-Gitura) : Sen. Wangari, you do not want to justify anything or it is okay with you?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I oblige. It will be a good idea if we start with it on Tuesday because of the interest that that matter attracted. In fact, this morning I had a meeting with the Assistant Secretary of State for the United States of America (USA) and half the time we discussed about the situation in South Sudan.

(Question of the amendment proposed) The Title and Clause 1

(Question, that the Title and Clause be part of the Bill, proposed)

Mr. Chairman, Sir, I beg to move that, pursuant to the Standing Order 139, the Committee do reports to the Senate its consideration of The County Library Services Bill (Senate Bill No. 6 of 2015) and seeks leave to sit again tomorrow.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to report that the Committee of the Whole has considered The Employment (Amendment) Bill (Senate Bill No.1 of 2015) and seeks leave to sit again tomorrow.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move the Senate do agree with the Committee in the said Report.

Sen. Gwendo seconded.

Sen. Wangari, you do not want to justify anything or it is okay with you?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to report that the Committee of the Whole has considered The County Library Services Bill (Senate Bill No.6 of 2015) and seeks leave to sit again tomorrow.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move the Senate do agree with the Committee in the said Report.

Sen. Wangari seconded

Mr. Chairman, Sir, pursuant to Standing Order No.139, I beg to move that the Committee reports progress on its consideration of The Employment (Amendment) Bill (Senate Bill No.1 of 2015) and seeks leave to sit again tomorrow. (Question proposed) (Question put and agreed to) The Chairperson (

Who was on the Floor? Sen. Wangari, you have the Floor.

Next Order.

for a position. Give that position to another woman and let them also have a chance to have a profile and build momentum to run for a seat. These are some of the things that were made as a compromise and this Bill envisages two terms. I think that two terms is too much. I hope that we will relook at that. If one serves in an affirmative seat for one term, they should then run for office.

The other good thing is the exit clause. This will not be permanent. I hope in 20 years when we review, we will do affirmative action for men or maybe we will be at 50- 50 and hence, not need any affirmative action. Therefore, this exit clause helps a lot, so that it is not seen to be permanent. Women should not just relax and do nothing towards acquiring these positions. We must go out there and encourage everyone who serves on an affirmative action seat to get out so that we can grow the numbers.

With those many remarks, I beg to support. I hope that Members will see the need, duty and the constitutional requirement of enacting this Bill into law.

(Question, that the Title and Clause be part of the Bill, proposed)

Mr. Chairman, Sir, I beg to move that, pursuant to the Standing Order 139, the Committee do reports to the Senate its consideration of The County Library Services Bill (Senate Bill No. 6 of 2015) and seeks leave to sit again tomorrow.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to report that the Committee of the Whole has considered The Employment (Amendment) Bill (Senate Bill No.1 of 2015) and seeks leave to sit again tomorrow.

because if you look at the office of the governor as a single institution, you would say that it is not fair if the governor and the deputy governor were all of the same gender. That is a debate that I urge the sponsor of this Bill and those who are passionate about the issue of representation of women to look at before we get to the next elections. That would allow more women to get into executive seats at the county level.

We cannot avoid talking about this being the age of women rising. In the United Kingdom (UK), a woman is at the helm. In the United States of America (USA), a woman for once is set to be nominated as a presidential contender. In Germany, a woman is at the helm as well as the International Monetary Fund (IMF) and at the African Union (AU). Women are also at the helm in Brazil, Argentina and in an increasing number of nations. Women have risen to top level positions not necessarily because of affirmative action but because of their own industry, effort, dedication, ambition and focus.

I urge the women of Kenya that tokenism is not the solution. In as much as we have done this for some of the less developed regions, much has not been achieved. For instance, we have an Equalization Fund; we have set aside some money to allow less developed counties to catch up with the other counties. With the experiment with the Equalization Fund, it is evident that there is no amount of favours, tokens or grants that you can provide that will fully compensate for the discrimination and injustices that have been meted out for many generations. So, tokenism is not the solution. We must get to a point where young ladies and even elderly ladies - though I am told that there is nothing like an elderly lady, you are either a young lady or a lady. So, young ladies and ladies in this country should believe in themselves and aspire to scale the heights.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to report that the Committee of the Whole has considered The County Library Services Bill (Senate Bill No.6 of 2015) and seeks leave to sit again tomorrow.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move the Senate do agree with the Committee in the said Report.

Sen. Wangari seconded

Who was on the Floor? Sen. Wangari, you have the Floor.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I congratulate the Mover of the Bill, Sen. Sijeny. This Bill talks to the Constitution that Kenyans voted for overwhelmingly in 2010. Under Article 81 of the Constitution on the general principles of the electoral system, there is a clear provision, under (b) , on how the electoral system should be. It says:-

“The electoral system shall comply with the following principles-

for a position. Give that position to another woman and let them also have a chance to have a profile and build momentum to run for a seat. These are some of the things that were made as a compromise and this Bill envisages two terms. I think that two terms is too much. I hope that we will relook at that. If one serves in an affirmative seat for one term, they should then run for office.

The other good thing is the exit clause. This will not be permanent. I hope in 20 years when we review, we will do affirmative action for men or maybe we will be at 50- 50 and hence, not need any affirmative action. Therefore, this exit clause helps a lot, so that it is not seen to be permanent. Women should not just relax and do nothing towards acquiring these positions. We must go out there and encourage everyone who serves on an affirmative action seat to get out so that we can grow the numbers.

With those many remarks, I beg to support. I hope that Members will see the need, duty and the constitutional requirement of enacting this Bill into law.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, thank you for giving me this opportunity to contribute to this Bill. I wish to congratulate and thank the Mover of the Bill, Sen. Sijeny. We are aware that many attempts have been made to deal with the issues that Sen. Sijeny has brought before this House. Many of them have not succeeded partly because of the jingoism that many political leaders in this country have and partly because of the attitudes that we have towards the implementation of the new Constitution.

I support this Bill for two reasons; the first one is because the Constitution requires that in elective positions, not more than two-thirds shall be of one gender. When we got the Constitution we swore an oath to defend and protect it. Therefore, if the Constitution requires it, it is upon us to ensure that we give effect to it.

Secondly, I support this Bill because it is the right thing to do. In a society like ours where women have always been categorized alongside children and their place considered the kitchen and other peripheral areas of the homestead, it has not been very easy for our women to rise to attain positions of leadership as opposed to men.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, there are still very many cultures in this country where even for a woman to stand before men and seek political positions is still being frowned upon. In fact, many women will be called prostitutes when they are seen running around going to meetings in the night and hobnobbing with men and other normal citizens in the name of looking for votes. Therefore, it is right for us to provide the “crate” that Sen. Wangari talked about.

If we want to treat everyone on equal terms in society, that means that women will definitely struggle to keep up with men. That is why there needs to be some equity. We need to provide women with some soft landing and certain advantages so that they are able to overcome the historical injustices that they have suffered in the past. In the county assemblies, we have already attempted to cure this issue. In my county, Homa Bay, only one woman was elected competitively out of the 40 wards. One out of 40 could easily be 2.5 per cent. That is very far off the mark of ensuring that not more than two thirds should be of the same gender. As a result, we have had a number of nominated women Members of the County Assembly (MCAs) . At the county assembly level across all the counties, we have already rectified that anomaly. We can also see that the

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, while you were consulting with the “King of Meru” the good professor is misleading the nation by saying that the women of Kenya are forcing matters which are in the Constitution.

Is he in order to mislead the nation that these rights are coming to this House in the wrong way, whereas it is a constitutional requirement that we realign our Constitution which was voted for?

because if you look at the office of the governor as a single institution, you would say that it is not fair if the governor and the deputy governor were all of the same gender. That is a debate that I urge the sponsor of this Bill and those who are passionate about the issue of representation of women to look at before we get to the next elections. That would allow more women to get into executive seats at the county level.

We cannot avoid talking about this being the age of women rising. In the United Kingdom (UK), a woman is at the helm. In the United States of America (USA), a woman for once is set to be nominated as a presidential contender. In Germany, a woman is at the helm as well as the International Monetary Fund (IMF) and at the African Union (AU). Women are also at the helm in Brazil, Argentina and in an increasing number of nations. Women have risen to top level positions not necessarily because of affirmative action but because of their own industry, effort, dedication, ambition and focus.

I urge the women of Kenya that tokenism is not the solution. In as much as we have done this for some of the less developed regions, much has not been achieved. For instance, we have an Equalization Fund; we have set aside some money to allow less developed counties to catch up with the other counties. With the experiment with the Equalization Fund, it is evident that there is no amount of favours, tokens or grants that you can provide that will fully compensate for the discrimination and injustices that have been meted out for many generations. So, tokenism is not the solution. We must get to a point where young ladies and even elderly ladies - though I am told that there is nothing like an elderly lady, you are either a young lady or a lady. So, young ladies and ladies in this country should believe in themselves and aspire to scale the heights.

Sen. M. Kajwang, who has been misleading you? I do not believe there is anything like what you say you have been recently informed about; young, old and elderly ladies. There are elderly ladies. They are very respectable.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the older they get, the younger they want to be. So, you are safe if you do not allude to age on their part.

My argument is that women should not look forward to tokenism and favours. We know that they have been left behind historically but tokens will not propel them to that level. We live with ladies. My wife is more educated and qualified professionally than I am. She has transcended that mental bondage that she is a woman. She sees herself as an individual and a human being who is capable and competent to scale the heights of success. That should be the attitude across.

However, when it comes to the political field, it is a slightly different matter. I want to advance an argument. This week, in the western edition of some dailies, the headlines have been about nominations and how they will be free and fair for certain political parties. The discussion on nomination in my view is similar to the discussion between a free market and a controlled economy. When you are in a free market where it is free for all, our women will not be able to compete. If they are left to compete with men using the same devices, strategies and same amounts of cash, they will never be able to compete. Even in our nominations we must attempt to strike a balance and say that, fine, a free market, free nomination is good, that is the letter and spirit of what democracy

persons with disability are shielded from some of the vagaries that they will be subjected to by the male contestants.

I support the proposal by Sen. Wangari which contradicts one of the amendments here. Once someone has been nominated, this business of eligibility for nomination for two further terms is an abuse of a privilege. Once you have been nominated once, that should give you enough exposure to understand the rules and how the game is played so that you can go out there and try it out on your own. You should also give an opportunity for others to come to this House or go to the National Assembly and get that exposure. At that right time, I will be rooting that we amend and change this from two further terms and in my view, a nomination should be for one term after which the nominee should be free to go out and square it out and come back to this House through a proper election.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, I conclude by quoting the words of a popular song of the reggae class. A famous musician sang, “They say women will rule this world in time to come.” That time has come. When we visited Sweden with a Parliamentary Committee, we met women working in the Swedish Prison Service who did not want to be recognised as women. They did not want to be congratulated for being women at the top. To them being a woman is just an issue of anatomy. It does not define their condition. I emphasize again that the women of this country must start thinking that way but the men of this country must also free women so that it is just about the anatomy. The focus should be on the intelligence, character and all the gifts that God gave them.

I believe that God gave women gifts equal if not greater than gifts that he gave men. When I see men carrying their pot bellies around town and the way they look fatigued, if they were to carry a baby for nine months, manhood would be extinct. That is why God made women stronger and more graceful. I wonder why they cannot use these gifts to transcend.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, with those remarks, I beg to support.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I enjoyed listening to Sen.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, it now needs to come into the minds of Kenyans that we should not force things onto others whenever we have an idea that may be appealing to you. Do not misuse a position, particularly when you are a person in charge. Article 81 (e) says:-

“Elections must be free and fair”. I suppose this is why we now have this agitation of wanting the Independent Electoral and Boundaries Commission (IEBC) to be reformed which is true because if the players and the users of the decision of the IEBC are not comfortable, then it requires that it be reformed. I thank the Senate and the National Assembly for sending a strong team that is sitting almost the whole day on a daily basis in County Hall, co-chaired by Sen.Murungi and Sen. Orengo.

Kenyans desire to make this Constitution better. When we passed it in 2010, we appealed to the people who had voted “No” that there would be changes to some of the issues that were not clear. This Article guarantees anybody who has a problem to read it. Saying the elections are free and fair means that it should be by secret ballot, free from violence, no intimidation and no undue influence or corruption.

In my county and some neigbouring counties, some characters are already saying: We will use thorax in 2107 election, so that we can take a candidate of our choice. I am wondering whether they have the same Constitution or there is a new one that has been produced by the people who go to the villages to mislead others.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, this body is supposed to be independent and the author of the Bill has no disagreement with that.

He now only says:- “That, the state shall, take legislative and other measures, including the setting of standards, to achieve realization of the Clauses set up above”. Of which part (b) says:-

“Not more than two thirds of the members of elective bodies shall be of the same gender”.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Clause talking about a maximum of two terms is essential. Let us not curtail people too much. It does not have to be that when you have served for two terms, you are automatically supposed to be elected. As we said, it should be competitive.

Lastly, if you read the history and books, particularly where we have seen the emergence of female leaders, you will find that they are not curtailed. They just emerge and automatically find themselves performing quite well. So, we need to encourage our sisters that it is their time. I support.

Thank you Senator. Sen. Okong’o, now it is your opportunity.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, as I rise to contribute, there is an issue which I did not want to delve into. First, I have to congratulate the Mover of this Bill, my learned friend, Sen. Sijeny, for coming up with what she is entitled to do as a legislator.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, when we passed the 2010 Constitution, we legislators are required to come up with several Acts and amendments to realign the 2010 Constitution to fall within the letter and spirit of the Constitution. That is what Sen. Sijeny has done.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, while you were consulting with the “King of Meru” the good professor is misleading the nation by saying that the women of Kenya are forcing matters which are in the Constitution.

Is he in order to mislead the nation that these rights are coming to this House in the wrong way, whereas it is a constitutional requirement that we realign our Constitution which was voted for?

Sen. Okong’o, do you not think Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo is just expressing his opinion? I noticed that you are the next on line and I am sure you will be able to disabuse that notion, if it is wrong. Everybody has a right to express their views and that is the essence of debate. When it is your turn, you will show whether that was wrong.

worry should rest in peace.

With those very few remarks, I beg to support.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Thank you for reminding my neighbour that he is the next one in line. We need to remind him that I am the other small king. When you see Sen. Murungi here---

about what needs to be done. I support that and say that as we address this, my challenge to the other gender is that, you are capable of presenting your candidature.

The only problem I have noted in Kenya is that when it comes to party issues and articulating what you can do and showing your ability, not very strong and competent ladies want to go to politics, except a few. If you go to the villages, the strong ladies such as, teachers and doctors do not want to run for office. They only want to enjoy nomination. If you stood against a man including myself, there are women who are better than me.

My challenge is that as we introduce this - I am very happy with her proposal to bring an amendment - we should not be nominating people forever. It is not healthy to have somebody always serving as a nominated Member. I am sure we have all learnt something and are competent the way Sen. Sijeny, Sen. Wangari and all the others have shown. They have brought Bills and Motions to this House. Why do you not go the next mile and show your ability to go and vie, instead of wanting to be nominated again?

This ceiling of two terms is better because we have already put a ceiling for the presidency which is a maximum of two terms and for the governor which is also two terms. We should also adapt the same for the women who have already stood for party seats and have been nominated.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the “bull fighter” is not in good sports.

Order! I did not give you that chance, did I? Continue with your debate.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Clause talking about a maximum of two terms is essential. Let us not curtail people too much. It does not have to be that when you have served for two terms, you are automatically supposed to be elected. As we said, it should be competitive.

Lastly, if you read the history and books, particularly where we have seen the emergence of female leaders, you will find that they are not curtailed. They just emerge and automatically find themselves performing quite well. So, we need to encourage our sisters that it is their time. I support.

Thank you Senator. Sen. Okong’o, now it is your opportunity.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, as I rise to contribute, there is an issue which I did not want to delve into. First, I have to congratulate the Mover of this Bill, my learned friend, Sen. Sijeny, for coming up with what she is entitled to do as a legislator.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, when we passed the 2010 Constitution, we legislators are required to come up with several Acts and amendments to realign the 2010 Constitution to fall within the letter and spirit of the Constitution. That is what Sen. Sijeny has done.

You heard me; thank you.

worry should rest in peace.

With those very few remarks, I beg to support.

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I am rising under Standing Order No.146 which speaks to the reintroduction of Bills after they have been rejected after the Third Reading in this House. I do not have to read that particular Standing Order because you know it. The determination I am requesting that the Chairs makes is; given the provisions of Article 112 of the Constitution which provides that a Bill like this one will have to get concurrence of the National Assembly and recalling that a similar Bill was before the National Assembly, in fact, last month and it was rejected; could you make a determination whether it is procedural for us to continue with this Bill knowing that this Bill would be seeking for concurrence in the National Assembly which already has rejected a similar Bill?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like you to guide me and because of your unique position as a lawyer and my equally unique position as a long serving legislature in this country, this matter is unprecedented and requires clarity.

Let me get you right Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, you quoted Standing Order No. 146 on Introduction of Bills. Is there anything wrong we have done there?

Absolutely nothing, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. That is why I brought the matter together with Article 112 of the Constitution.

Yes, Standing Order No. 146 is super. When you read Article 112 of the Constitution ---

Let us go to Article 112 of the Constitution which you have referred to. What is your issue there?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, in Article 112 of the Constitution; if one House passes an ordinary Bill concerning counties and the second House rejects it, this is now contemplating a situation whereby the Bill goes to the second House. So, because Article 112 of the Constitution anticipates a Bill going to the other House and I know that this Bill will require concurrence of the other House---

Take me to Article 112 of the Constitution. Let us go through it together.

I will read Article 112 of the Constitution?

Yes.

It states and I quote:- “If one House passes an ordinary Bill concerning counties and the second House rejects the Bill, it shall be referred to a Mediation Committee appointed under Article 113 of the Constitution or passes the Bill in an amended Bill; it shall be referred back to the originating House for reconsideration”.

Do I stop or I continue?

Is that where your issue is? My issue is on concurrence of the other House. Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kembi-Gitura) : With the Bill that we are dealing with now?

Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. This Bill, God willing, when we pass it, will go to the National Assembly for concurrence, but the National Assembly is in the unique position that last month, they rejected a similar Bill.

A different Bill and not The Constitution of Kenya (Amendment) Bill (Senate Bill No.16 of 2015) but may be a Bill that was almost the same in its essence. My understanding is that your fear is that the National Assembly has dealt with a Bill very close to this one and has rejected it.

Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

That does not stop us from debating our Bill. Would it?

Not in the least.

Your fear is that we are working in futility because if we pass this Bill and take it to the National Assembly, it will be rejected.

Yes, that is my fear.

But is that not pre-emptive?

Yes, Standing Order No. 146 is super. When you read Article 112 of the Constitution ---

Let us go to Article 112 of the Constitution which you have referred to. What is your issue there?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, in Article 112 of the Constitution; if one House passes an ordinary Bill concerning counties and the second House rejects it, this is now contemplating a situation whereby the Bill goes to the second House. So, because Article 112 of the Constitution anticipates a Bill going to the other House and I know that this Bill will require concurrence of the other House---

National Assembly rejects the Bill, so it did not come here; right?

Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

So, in this case, if for the sake of agreement we pass this Bill, what will happen is that we are going to fight with the National Assembly. Am I correct?

Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Then two things will happen; if the Senate passes it to the National Assembly and they reject it, then a committee on mediation will be formed. Am I right?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, so that I do not look like I am arguing with you---

No; I am quite happy, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, going through this Motion with you because it is important. My understanding of what you are saying is that your fear is that we are working in futility in the sense that even if we pass this Bill, it goes to the National Assembly, they will reject it.

Exactly and it may not be rejected in Plenary. The Speaker will not find it admissible for debate because the Standing Orders will tell him this matter has recently been before the House. So, it will not even be taken for debate. That is the determination I want.

Can it go for mediation? It cannot, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. A Bill only goes for mediation if it has been rejected. The House will not have been given an opportunity to reject.

With the Bill that we are dealing with now? Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. This Bill, God willing, when we pass it, will go to the National Assembly for concurrence, but the National Assembly is in the unique position that last month, they rejected a similar Bill.

A different Bill and not The Constitution of Kenya (Amendment) Bill (Senate Bill No.16 of 2015) but may be a Bill that was almost the same in its essence. My understanding is that your fear is that the National Assembly has dealt with a Bill very close to this one and has rejected it.

Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

That does not stop us from debating our Bill. Would it?

Not in the least.

Your fear is that we are working in futility because if we pass this Bill and take it to the National Assembly, it will be rejected.

Yes, that is my fear.

No, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale. You are raising a very important legal issue and my understanding is that this is a Senate Bill and our Standing Orders guide us, as they are guided by their Standing Orders. That is why I asked you in Standing Order No. 146 and you said it is okay. If it goes to the National Assembly, it will not be their Bill that was rejected less than six months ago. They will not be dealing with that Bill but they will be dealing with our Bill and determining whether or not they can pass it. If they do not pass it, it will go to mediation. That is my understanding from where I am sitting.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, because I have raised this issue--- Because Standing Order No. 146 is talking to a Bill within the same House. I do not think the Speaker of the National Assembly will say we had a Bill similar to this one – it may be similar but not the same. It may be addressing a similar thing but not the same things. That is my understanding but I could be wrong. I can see Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. is asking for the Floor and Sen.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, there is a serious issue there. Let me take another angle. The advisory opinion of the Supreme Court on the gender question in Article 91 gave Parliament the deadline of 27th August, 2016. So, there needs to be an element of determination of this question.

I am not certain whether the Bill in the National Assembly was on principle. This is on principle or under Article 81, but I am not certain whether we are looking at the measures of ensuring that we comply with the two-thirds requirement. Any conflict on this question will fall squarely on this House in terms of the failure to comply with the deadline set by the Supreme Court. It is very dangerous if we do not determine what question the National Assembly did not agree to is. When we finish what we are doing here, we should not end up with a quarrel, at the National Assembly level about this question.

There needs to be clear direction, maybe through consultation, so that we do not end up in a deadlock. We want to help, but it would be unfair for us to sit, with the knowledge and information that we have about, first, the deadline set by the Supreme Court and, two, the rejection by the National Assembly. We should not sit here and assume that all will be well, when we know it might not be. A little direction here will be useful, so that we know that once we finish this--- The issue is urgent and I have said that if we do not comply with Article 81 (b) it is possible that a good Kenyan, like Mr. Omtata, will make sure that we are not sworn in, in 2017. It is a serious question.

Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr., I thought you would help me on the issue of procedure; the legality of the---

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is the same. That is what I said. If there is a rejection on the Standing Orders.

National Assembly rejects the Bill, so it did not come here; right?

Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

So, in this case, if for the sake of agreement we pass this Bill, what will happen is that we are going to fight with the National Assembly. Am I correct?

Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Then two things will happen; if the Senate passes it to the National Assembly and they reject it, then a committee on mediation will be formed. Am I right?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, so that I do not look like I am arguing with you---

No; I am quite happy, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, going through this Motion with you because it is important. My understanding of what you are saying is that your fear is that we are working in futility in the sense that even if we pass this Bill, it goes to the National Assembly, they will reject it.

Exactly and it may not be rejected in Plenary. The Speaker will not find it admissible for debate because the Standing Orders will tell him this matter has recently been before the House. So, it will not even be taken for debate. That is the determination I want.

Can it go for mediation? It cannot, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. A Bill only goes for mediation if it has been rejected. The House will not have been given an opportunity to reject.

Then you need to show me the proper legal provision because Article 112 of the Constitution is about going to mediation. It is not a situation where the Speaker will reject it.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, before he takes, you have made an important point. Article 112 of the Constitution is not about mediation. Mediation is Article 113 of the Constitution.

But it flows from Article 112 of the Constitution.

Yes Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I want you to understand me that the only reason why this Bill will find itself at Article 113 of the Constitution is because the National Assembly will have spoken to it and rejected it with an amendment. However---

Why would the Speaker of the National Assembly reject the Bill before taking it to the Floor of the House?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, he will reject it because six months will not have elapsed.

This is not their Bill; it is a Senate Bill.

Okay; you make a determination, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, yes, you are.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, there is a serious issue there. Let me take another angle. The advisory opinion of the Supreme Court on the gender question in Article 91 gave Parliament the deadline of 27th August, 2016. So, there needs to be an element of determination of this question.

I am not certain whether the Bill in the National Assembly was on principle. This is on principle or under Article 81, but I am not certain whether we are looking at the measures of ensuring that we comply with the two-thirds requirement. Any conflict on this question will fall squarely on this House in terms of the failure to comply with the deadline set by the Supreme Court. It is very dangerous if we do not determine what question the National Assembly did not agree to is. When we finish what we are doing here, we should not end up with a quarrel, at the National Assembly level about this question.

There needs to be clear direction, maybe through consultation, so that we do not end up in a deadlock. We want to help, but it would be unfair for us to sit, with the knowledge and information that we have about, first, the deadline set by the Supreme Court and, two, the rejection by the National Assembly. We should not sit here and assume that all will be well, when we know it might not be. A little direction here will be useful, so that we know that once we finish this--- The issue is urgent and I have said that if we do not comply with Article 81 (b) it is possible that a good Kenyan, like Mr. Omtata, will make sure that we are not sworn in, in 2017. It is a serious question.

Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr., I thought you would help me on the issue of procedure; the legality of the---

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is the same. That is what I said. If there is a rejection on the Standing Orders.

Where?

At the National Assembly, because the Bill needs concurrence. The legal question---

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the fisherman does not like to be presumptuous or to pre-empt things. History will judge us as a House that considered this matter and either agreed or disagreed with it. When I read the mood of the House, we are generally in support of this Bill. We cannot predict what will happen in the other House.

That is the kind of position I am taking. I take it advisedly. I am happy that Sen. M. Kajwang has brought in the issue of Article 110 (3) . As far as I am concerned, I am not competent at the moment to talk about Article 110 (3) . My assumption, just like yours, is that when a Bill passes through the Senate Business Committee (SBC) and comes to the Floor of the House, it has complied with all those other issues. I will not look behind it or talk about Article 110 (3) . I can only talk about Article 112.

As far as I am concerned, my eyes are closed; I cannot see. I do not know whether this Bill was debated anywhere else at any other time, because I have no knowledge or message on the same, and so, my hands are tied. We have a Bill in front of us and we must pass or reject it. If we pass it at the division stage, then we shall only do what we must do under Article112 (1) of the Constitution. I have no control at all of what will happen after that. I will not defer this issue for a ruling more considered than what I have given. I am only dealing with the law as I see it.

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, I have already made a ruling on this issue. If it is to argue on whether or not we will proceed, I have already made a decision.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I just want to be on record. I concur with you; I cannot challenge you. There is no evidence that there is reason for us to stop or stand down the debate on this Bill. However, for the first time, we are now creating a parliamentary practice that will eventually become our tradition. Such a matter might recur in future. My thinking is that we proceed with debate - even if we pass the Second Reading today, there will be still the Third Reading waiting – but in the meantime, the Office of the Speaker should be forward-looking and do the necessary consultations, so that a ruling is made once and for all.

Why do I say this? Before this message goes before the National Assembly, the Speaker will look at the Bill and say that according to the Constitution, it is admissible for debate. He then goes to the House Business Committee (HBC) in the National Assembly which ballots the Bill. If they find that the matter had already been before the House, there might be an issue that will require a declaration.

They can never find that the matter was before the House because it was never before the House. They can find that it is deceptively similar - as we used to say in law - to what was before their House, but they may not say that it is the same, because it is not the same.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, that is the elephant in the room. Did they reject the measure or the principle to the extent that---

The truth of the matter, Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr., is that from where I am sitting, I do not know. Normally, I would have a message from the National Assembly that I would have read out to the Senate and said that this is the position. What happened in their situation is that the Bill died; it was voted out twice or thrice. The “nays” had it, as it were. Are we dealing with the same thing?

Yes, because it is Article 81. No, not Article 81. Are we dealing with the same Bill?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we are not dealing with the same Bill.

Then, if we are not dealing with same Bill, we are dealing with the same situation. I do not know why they rejected it ---

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, that is why it is important to have a reasoned ruling. I must confess that I know that it is possible that there were other considerations of rejecting the principles that were in Article 81, because the amendments are the same. It could be a different Bill, but the National Assembly was attempting to deal with Articles 81, 97 and 98. So, if it is substantially the same ---

The big question is: If we pass this Bill here – and remember they did not pass the Bill from what we have been told – the next thing that will happen is that we shall send a message to the National Assembly. The question then that must be answered is: Will the Speaker of the National Assembly say that he will not take it to the Floor of the House because it is the same thing or will he be obliged to take the matter to the Floor of the House and then they reject our Bill and it goes to mediation? That is what Article 112 of the Constitution says. The problem that I have is that we are dealing with issues that I do not know about.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, that is the reason it would have been important that before we finalise whatever we are doing, we check, so that we are clear. It is a point and I am ready to contribute because where I stand, I am a special rapporteur for gender parity of the Inter-Parliamentary Union (IPU) . I have an issue about this, but those are fundamental questions. We know what has happened before. Bills have been sent to them but they have not been listed. Instead, they have listed something else. It is fair that we confirm because we suspect that, in fact, it will not even leave the Rules and Business---

Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr., the only problem I have – you may take your seat for now – from where I am sitting, and I know that Sen. Kajwang has also asked for the Floor on the same point, is that the National Assembly has its own Standing Orders. A Bill can originate from either House. Am I correct so far?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, yes, you are.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, sometimes when you have tough subjects involving legal minds and experienced legislators like Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, you need a fisherman like me who is experienced in disentangling nets.

I see two things here. Is this Bill properly in the House or this is an exercise in futility? I agree with you that on the question of whether this is an exercise in futility, we are being pre-emptive.

Is the Bill in the House properly?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, as to whether the Bill is in the House properly, when I look in the Constitution and Standing Orders, I see sections which oblige the Speakers of both Houses to do certain things before a Bill comes to this House. I want to assume that, that was done. Of course, the wording of the Constitution says that whether it concerns county Governments or special or ordinary Bill; I want to believe that this Bill was subjected to Article 110 (3) of the Constitution.

Secondly, our Standing Order No.117 talks about introduction of Bills; what must be done when a Bill is being introduced to this House. Standing Order No.117 (2) (c) obliges the Speaker to refer the legislative proposal to the Clerk, who shall consider the proposal and whether it conforms to the Constitution and the law and it is in order as to format, style and in accordance with these Standing Orders--- Unless we are questioning whether the Speaker went through very vigorous process then, we would consider that this Bill is properly in the House.

Just yesterday, we had a similar discussion, where a Bill came to the house and we were arguing whether the requirements of the County Governments Act on renaming of county headquarters had been fulfilled. The County Governments Act says that a county Government must make a resolution supported by two-thirds of the assembly and the resolution transmitted to Parliament. We were questioning whether that resolution had been passed. The Speaker ruled that by the time the Bill is before us, then those conditions have been met.

On a point of order Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. We are several Members in this House. Is the Senator in order to isolate and discriminate against Sen.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the fisherman does not like to be presumptuous or to pre-empt things. History will judge us as a House that considered this matter and either agreed or disagreed with it. When I read the mood of the House, we are generally in support of this Bill. We cannot predict what will happen in the other House.

That is the kind of position I am taking. I take it advisedly. I am happy that Sen. M. Kajwang has brought in the issue of Article 110 (3) . As far as I am concerned, I am not competent at the moment to talk about Article 110 (3) . My assumption, just like yours, is that when a Bill passes through the Senate Business Committee (SBC) and comes to the Floor of the House, it has complied with all those other issues. I will not look behind it or talk about Article 110 (3) . I can only talk about Article 112.

As far as I am concerned, my eyes are closed; I cannot see. I do not know whether this Bill was debated anywhere else at any other time, because I have no knowledge or message on the same, and so, my hands are tied. We have a Bill in front of us and we must pass or reject it. If we pass it at the division stage, then we shall only do what we must do under Article112 (1) of the Constitution. I have no control at all of what will happen after that. I will not defer this issue for a ruling more considered than what I have given. I am only dealing with the law as I see it.

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, I have already made a ruling on this issue. If it is to argue on whether or not we will proceed, I have already made a decision.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I just want to be on record. I concur with you; I cannot challenge you. There is no evidence that there is reason for us to stop or stand down the debate on this Bill. However, for the first time, we are now creating a parliamentary practice that will eventually become our tradition. Such a matter might recur in future. My thinking is that we proceed with debate - even if we pass the Second Reading today, there will be still the Third Reading waiting – but in the meantime, the Office of the Speaker should be forward-looking and do the necessary consultations, so that a ruling is made once and for all.

Why do I say this? Before this message goes before the National Assembly, the Speaker will look at the Bill and say that according to the Constitution, it is admissible for debate. He then goes to the House Business Committee (HBC) in the National Assembly which ballots the Bill. If they find that the matter had already been before the House, there might be an issue that will require a declaration.

They can never find that the matter was before the House because it was never before the House. They can find that it is deceptively similar - as we used to say in law - to what was before their House, but they may not say that it is the same, because it is not the same.

are valuable. You have even made me think about something that was not in my mind when you resumed debate on this Bill. But the truth of the matter is that you are asking me to do things that I cannot do from where I am sitting. If we pass this Bill, we will send it down to the ‘lower House’ or we shall reject it like they did, and that would be the end of the matter. We will deal with the consequences of having failed to deal with the constitutional deadline at that moment in time. That will be my ruling.

Who was on the Floor? Sen. Gwendo, were you contributing. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I had just started.

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Is it on the same issue, Sen. Sang?

Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I came in when you had already progressed in these discussions. Thank you, for giving the undertaking to do a considered ruling---

I will not do any other ruling. I have made my ruling.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am sure that the issues that have been raised here will still be part and parcel of the deliberations in this House. You have given us the green light and we shall proceed with the Second Reading on this Bill. However, I am sure that at one point or another, we will have to address a number of the issues that have been raised in this House.

Some of the constitutional provisions with regards to Article 110 on whether or not a Bill affects counties might not necessarily apply on a constitutional amendment. The Constitution under Chapter 16 provides only two ways of amending the Constitution. Article 256 is a parliamentary initiative, which I believe---

courts for interpretation or remind the court on the ruling of Judge Mumbi. We normally assume that we can do everything including reducing days, clamping everything and finishing---.

It is time to show Kenyans that we have the spirit of respecting the rule of law and the Constitution. You remember that we lobbied our colleagues and we are still lobbying. This is not a women’s issue. Women are fewer today but tomorrow, it may be the men who have less numbers. You never know. Nobody knew that at one point the former Prime Minister of Britain would leave his seat. A woman now occupies that seat. A woman may also end up being the President of USA. Therefore, let us not ignore this Bill. Let us agree in principle that whoever will benefit is a Kenyan; either male or female.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the Bill also serves to affirm the marginalized groups and people living with disabilities. While amending it, we can bring amendments in the Elections Act so that everyone goes out to compete. That would be important so that we also feel the heat that everyone else feels. All these things depend on how we amend the Elections Act and ensure that happens when political parties are doing their nominations. I know that Kenyans feel that there are too many seats, which is true. However, if everyone goes for competition, then Kenyans will appreciate that one is not just given a seat but they have worked and toiled for it.

We have clear debates in the Senate that people will come to understand. Sometimes because of the politics that we bring, Kenyans get totally confused and think that we are creating non-existent issues. However, let us bring out the sacrifice that we made when passing the new Constitution. We came up with a principle which must now have a formula to be implemented. That is why we have many nominated women in the counties. I discourage this. Let us ensure Kenyans understand why more women need to be elected to the county assemblies. At the same time, if more women are elected, men must be nominated to ensure that not more than two thirds of either gender is in that house.

Nominated women are called “top ups” and Kenyans have decided to erode the issue of political parties “topping up” women in the county assemblies. They do not even remember that these women were nominated through a party list. It is important that nominated members uphold the interest of their party as they debate in that house. They should bear in mind the manifesto of their party. They should ensure their party is heard.

Therefore, we must redeem that so that in the next elections in 2017, while we are aware that there will be many male contestants for the seat of MCA in a Ward, for instance 45, we must encourage women to be part of the 45. MCA will be a competitive seat. The men might discourage women by telling them that they have their “top up.” We should discourage this. That is why we must be clear in the amendment of the Elections Act on nominations. We must put in place a clear formula. Everyone has to contest for a seat. If you lose, and you are a best loser, your party can nominate you.

We must also look at the amendments on the issue of handing in the party list before the elections. I am pleading with the House that, we should look at that amendment to ensure that people who have worked for the party benefit in those

Contrary to what? Contrary to the point of order by Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale. It goes to show how---

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, I hope that you will not take us back. What is your point of order?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I rise to support in principle. It is fair that we affirm the constitution.

Article 260 says:- “The “affirmative action” includes any measure designed to ameliorate an inequity or the systematic denial or infringement of right or fundamental freedom”. It is disappointing that in the history of this country we know - Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale mentioned this during our Senate Select Committee - that women are 52 per cent of the population. They are the majority and yet 50 years since Independence, they continue to be marginalized.

I have the privilege of being one of the two rapporteurs of the Inter-Parliamentary Union (IPU) . I will be presenting a report in October during the General Assembly of the IPU on this question.

We are investigating why it is that so many years after the Beijing Declaration, many other declarations and conventions, we are still arguing on this principle of this minimum. Kenya is at 22 per cent in terms of the gender question. This is way below the one third that is contemplated.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, under Article 91, I had the privilege of making this presentation and I will repeat it today, that this gender question is not separate from a free and fair, simple and accurate election. This is to the extent that if this question is not answered before the next general election, we are going into a constitutional crisis.

It is possible that the men who are the majority in this Parliament will have to stand up to be counted. I am doing some work for the IPU and it has long been recognized that men are the ones who are occupying all the seats whether it is executive, parliamentary or parastatal. It is a structural problem in a patriarchal society. This is the theme that we in the IPU have adopted. Men and women have now come together to create a bridge, in our quest to find out how the gender parity issue is being done all over the world. In Togo, special seats are reserved for women, but they do not take them up. In India, there is an Amendment Bill No 208 passed by the Upper House and rejected by the

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I also want to thank Sen. Sijeny for bringing the amendment to the Constitution regarding a critical issue to our country. Article 261 (5) may be used against Parliament if we are unable to ensure that the two-thirds gender matter is determined.

I also want to thank Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr., Sen. Hassan and the Senate Minority Leader for their stand when this Bill was in the ‘lower House’. They stood firm and declared that it is time that we finish with the agenda.

On a point of order Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. We are several Members in this House. Is the Senator in order to isolate and discriminate against Sen.

Affairs and Human Rights and we have processed this Bill and given the necessary support. Is she in order to discriminate against Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale and I, who are the strong supporters of women leadership?

On a point of order Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. It is this attitude of being confrontational that is part of the reason in the National Assembly, a few male Members walked out of the House and we missed the numbers. Today, we have spent the whole day listening to the presentations as, the Select Committee, from the National Gender and Equality Commission, particularly on this agenda. Should this matter fail, we yet have another avenue, as a Committee, to give it a chance to see the light of day. Is she in order to leave me out of the list of people being given accolades?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the Senator of Kakamega and the Vice Chair of the Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights should have waited until I finished my statement. I was just affirming. Of course, I know what my Senator and the Vice Chairperson of the Committee have done. I wish they could have waited.

I can confirm they are happy now.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, could you protect me?

courts for interpretation or remind the court on the ruling of Judge Mumbi. We normally assume that we can do everything including reducing days, clamping everything and finishing---.

It is time to show Kenyans that we have the spirit of respecting the rule of law and the Constitution. You remember that we lobbied our colleagues and we are still lobbying. This is not a women’s issue. Women are fewer today but tomorrow, it may be the men who have less numbers. You never know. Nobody knew that at one point the former Prime Minister of Britain would leave his seat. A woman now occupies that seat. A woman may also end up being the President of USA. Therefore, let us not ignore this Bill. Let us agree in principle that whoever will benefit is a Kenyan; either male or female.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the Bill also serves to affirm the marginalized groups and people living with disabilities. While amending it, we can bring amendments in the Elections Act so that everyone goes out to compete. That would be important so that we also feel the heat that everyone else feels. All these things depend on how we amend the Elections Act and ensure that happens when political parties are doing their nominations. I know that Kenyans feel that there are too many seats, which is true. However, if everyone goes for competition, then Kenyans will appreciate that one is not just given a seat but they have worked and toiled for it.

We have clear debates in the Senate that people will come to understand. Sometimes because of the politics that we bring, Kenyans get totally confused and think that we are creating non-existent issues. However, let us bring out the sacrifice that we made when passing the new Constitution. We came up with a principle which must now have a formula to be implemented. That is why we have many nominated women in the counties. I discourage this. Let us ensure Kenyans understand why more women need to be elected to the county assemblies. At the same time, if more women are elected, men must be nominated to ensure that not more than two thirds of either gender is in that house.

Nominated women are called “top ups” and Kenyans have decided to erode the issue of political parties “topping up” women in the county assemblies. They do not even remember that these women were nominated through a party list. It is important that nominated members uphold the interest of their party as they debate in that house. They should bear in mind the manifesto of their party. They should ensure their party is heard.

Therefore, we must redeem that so that in the next elections in 2017, while we are aware that there will be many male contestants for the seat of MCA in a Ward, for instance 45, we must encourage women to be part of the 45. MCA will be a competitive seat. The men might discourage women by telling them that they have their “top up.” We should discourage this. That is why we must be clear in the amendment of the Elections Act on nominations. We must put in place a clear formula. Everyone has to contest for a seat. If you lose, and you are a best loser, your party can nominate you.

We must also look at the amendments on the issue of handing in the party list before the elections. I am pleading with the House that, we should look at that amendment to ensure that people who have worked for the party benefit in those

very powerful and would help the party. Some no longer support their parties yet it is important to support your party so that it progresses. We should put in place a clear framework so that everyone who is nominated is responsible. This will ensure that their party thrives; party agenda is well articulated, nationally and at the county level.

In addition, some nominations do not benefit residents of a county. This is worrying. For instance, in Mombasa, two MCAs are from Nyanza yet they were nominated to Mombasa County Assembly. In Kisii County Assembly, there is a Borana lady who was nominated yet the Kisiis are there. This is wrong. This is where the electoral commissioners erred. They mismanaged the process in that regard. We must close up that gap where people take advantage of such situations just because it was very open. I hope legal minds will help political parties to ensure that in 2017 this does not recur. Every community should benefit from their county assembly. Those are their slots. Let them feel they are part and parcel of the elections.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, with those few remarks, I beg to support.

expense of other women of this country.

the figures will reduce like the case of Uganda and Egypt.

Secondly, why are we introducing terms? If we are going to allow 30 per cent representation through affirmative action, we must give the women and other groups more opportunities but not to recycle them. When you represent an interest, this Parliament gives another opportunity to another woman out there in the public because they are so many out there who want to come to Parliament. Why do you want to recycle yourselves? You should move and get another person to have that opportunity. That is the only way the gender parity is going to make sense. Otherwise, it is looking selfish and we who are proposing want to protect our turf and lock out the people whom we represent.

My concerns are the sunset Clause and a person being eligible for two other terms. We have abused the nomination list. The NGEC Chairperson told us that those who are nominated are wives and girlfriends other than considering the question of affirmative action. I hope that that we will put measures in place in determining this. I am not sure why Sen. Sijeny has proposed an amendment in Article 81 to say “the state shall enforce” because the state is involved in Article 27 where they are appointing. Article 81 is about general principles for the electoral system.

Why do we want the Government in this issue because this is a question of the agencies that deal with elections and gender parity, like the National Gender Commission, the IEBC et cetera, hence what Sen. Elachi was talking about nomination lists. This morning we were told of a case where a secretary nominated herself by just putting her name in a list, simply because she had the opportunity to do so; a typical Kenyan thing. We have to ensure that so that this lady seated next to me can one day move from where she is and sit here, because she is eligible. We can only ensure that if we do not put terms and sunset clauses. There is no reason to do so.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I rise to strongly support any initiative, like this one, that attempts to equalize the boys and girls; the men and women of the Republic of Kenya. This is because, in His wisdom, the Lord Almighty created all of us equal.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I wish to speak to the importance of this constitutional amendment Bill and emphasize the reasons I am happy that, finally, we have an opportunity to make a pronouncement on it as a House. This matter has been before the National Assembly two times and we watched helplessly as the Bill got defeated. I want to appeal to colleagues and leaders of delegations in this House to ensure that we pass this Bill, so that we send a clear message to the country that the Senate is the “upper House;” the House of reflection that can reflect on matters when they have not been handled very well in the “lower House”.

I, therefore, wish to confirm that I support this Bill, because of Article 100 of the Constitution, which provides that affirmative action should be extended to women, amongst other minority and marginalized groups, including persons living with disability. I support this Bill for the sake of my daughters. I have beautiful girls who are very brilliant. In fact, it normally gives me a lot of pleasure that so far, my girls continue to score better than my boys in all national examinations. So, I know that the real expression

to be denied any opportunity whatsoever in life.Thirdly, I support this Bill because of my wives. My wives are a demonstration to all the women of this Republic that the Senator for Kakamega appreciates women and he is a good man who knows how to live, not just with one woman, but a number of them. Why would we want to live with them when we do not want to give them opportunities? I support it and I know where they are, they will be very happy to appreciate what I am saying.Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I support this Bill because of the women of Kakamega who voted for me overwhelmingly in 2013, especially the women of Ikolomani Constituency who have nurtured me enough to have emerged to be a leader not just in Kakamega, but also in the Republic of Kenya.Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I support this Bill, in support of millions of Kenyan women who admire my parliamentary prowess and demonstrated leadership in this Republic.

Which is immense! Which is immense, as put by my able national party leader of FORD Kenya.Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I support this Bill for the memory my late mother, Mama Paulina Shinangoi, omukhana wa Lugonzo.Finally, I want to clarify that I support all these women that I have mentioned above, I am currently teaching my daughters and I hope all the girl-children of this country are listening to me or will one day read this. We must teach our girls to learn to compete. We do not want them to think that the reason we give them affirmative action is because they are in any way inferior to their age mates who are boys. This is evident in the convergence that is soon coming in the world. In the community of nations, the three superpowers of the world; the United States of America (USA), the Republic of Germany and the United Kingdom (UK) will all be led by women by the end of November. Hopefully, these will be Hillary Clinton in the USA, Angela Merkel in Germany and, of course, Theresa May in the UK. I want to pass my congratulations to Ms. May. So, we must teach our children to compete.It is a pity that the Mover of the Motion has stepped out because I wanted her to hear this. She cannot move in the spirit of affirmative action and then provide in this Bill Clause 4(b) which says that you insert the following New Clauses immediately after Clause 1. Clause 1(a) states that a person elected under Clause 1 for a seat in Parliament or a county assembly shall be eligible for re-election under Clause 1 for two terms. No way! With all due respect, Sen. Sijeny, you are legislating for yourself, the current Members of the Senate who are nominated to this House or you are legislative in connivance with the MCAs and Members of the National Assembly who are currently nominated.Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I would like to appeal to Sen. Sijeny to demonstrate good will. I would like you to know that we are the majority in this House. She will not use us to disenfranchise the other deserving women in the Republic of Kenya. She needs to demonstrate good will by dropping this particular New Clause.

Clause 1(a), a person elected under Clause 1 for a seat in Parliament or a county assembly in the First General Election held under this Constitution shall be eligible for election under Clause 1 for two further terms, again for the same reasons.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I have been listening to Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale talking and I am wondering whether he is in order to mislead us about the interpretation of Clause 1(a) which states that a person elected under Clause 1 for a seat in Parliament or a county assembly shall be eligible for re-election under Clause 1 for two terms only. That means that if they had been there and they want to be re-nominated for the third term, they will not. This Clause does not suggest that they must be nominated for two consecutive terms. That is a misunderstanding that creates a lot of unnecessary interpretation and debate, specifically for this Clause because at the end of the day, we are saying that this person should not be elected more than two terms. It does not mean that if you have been here for one term, you must again be nominated for a second term.

Sen. (Dr.) Zani, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale is not out of order in his debate.

Continue, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, with your permission, allow me to thank you and also remind Sen. (Dr.) Zani that I understand that she is a lecturer at the University of Nairobi. If she had been one of the teachers who taught me, she would not have qualified to teach English because, apparently, I understand English better than she does. I can read this clause and understand it well. I am asking Sen. Sijeny to do the honourable thing, demonstrate good will, bring us on board and not disenfranchise other Kenyan women and drop this amendment. We want all other Kenyans to benefit.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, during the Third Reading, I will introduce a further amendment. I will provide that persons who qualify for nominations under this particular Article must, over and above the provisions of Article 99, be people who have demonstrated interest in politics. We do not want nominated people to be women who have been fished from nowhere and we end up with people’s girlfriends and wives. I know of a personal assistant of a party leader, who when given an opportunity to organize a list, nominated his two daughters to a county assembly. To stop this mischief, I will be introducing the clause, which I will beg the House to support; that for a woman to qualify for nomination, she should have vied and lost. That way, we will know that she has the appetite for politics.

Finally but not least, I want to appeal to the Chairperson of the National Gender and Equality Commission, Ms, Winfred Lichuma, that this is an excellent opportunity. Instead of the time she wasted trying to lobby Members of the National Assembly, she should come and talk to our Senators. She should also call for a quick workshop of the women Senators so that they tone down on the kind of attitude demonstrated by Sen. (Dr.) Zani this afternoon. Sen. (Dr.) Zani should appreciate that she does not lead any delegation.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I therefore, conclude by assuring--- On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, could you protect me?

Sen. (Dr.) Zani, I hope you do not want to debate again.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I did not want you to pre-empt want I want to do. Is Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale in order to suggest about an attitude being presented in terms of debate when we are clear about the fact that when we are debating in this House, we do so as Senators of the Senate of Kenya? When bringing our points to the fore front, let us not show the differences that we have as human beings at this particular point. As women of Kenya, we have tried to create a scenario for positions for the women. We are trying to do so with a lot of understanding between the Senators. If I speak about it, he should not interpret it as an attitude; neither should he question my credentials as a lecturer. I have taught a lot of people and they have done well. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, this is a good debate. I want to conclude by appealing to the Chair that the point of order I raised this afternoon was about the interpretation of the process through which this Bill is expected to move under Standing Order No. 146 and Article 112 of the Constitution. A ruling should be made over it because it is a major constitutional issue that requires determination. With those many remarks, I support. The Senate Minority Leader (

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, let me start from where Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale left. I believe that according to Sen. Sijeny, this is not her Bill but she is the conveyer belt of the use of others to this House. May I advise her for free that Clause 4 (b) -before looking at the main Bill - will collapse this Bill.

expense of other women of this country.

Order the Senate Minority Leader. You are entitled to one hour. Therefore, when the Bill appears in the Order Paper next, you will have a balance of 56 minutes. With your power of debate, I believe you will exhaust that time.

Hon. Senators, it is now 6.30p.m., time to interrupt the business of the House. The Senate stands adjourned until Tuesday, 26th July, 2016 at 2.30 p.m.

The Senate rose at 6.30 p.m.