Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to lay the following Paper on the Table of the Senate today, Thursday, 21st April, 2016:-

Report on the Petition on the alleged violation by the National Registration Bureau (NRB) of the right of the residents of Vihiga County to registration and issuance of National Identity Cards.

Thank you, Senator. Do we have any other Paper to be laid?

Next Order. Hon. Senators, there are five statements to be issued. Before we get to that, are there any Senators seeking Statements?

Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Proceed, Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo.

April 21, 2016 SENATE DEBATES CONDUCT OF CHINA JIANGSU INTERNATIONAL (K) LIMITED

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.45 (2) (b) to seek a statement from the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Labour and Social Welfare regarding the conduct of China Jiangsu International (K) Limited, a Chinese company contracted---

Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo, something seems to be wrong with your microphone or the system. Could you try another microphone? Please move to the dispatch box.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I hope this one works. I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.45 (2) (b) to seek a Statement from the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Labour and Social Welfare regarding the conduct of China Jiangsu International (K) Limited, a Chinese Company contracted to construct the Muruny-Siyoi Dam in Lelan Ward, West Pokot County. In the Statement, the Chairperson should:-

Sen. Obure, do you want to ride on that or to make a Statement?

Do not jump the gun. Where is the Chairperson of the Committee on Labour and Social Welfare? Is there a Committee Member of this Committee?

Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Will you commit your Committee? Please, tell us when you will issue that Statement.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it will be issued in one week’s time.

Good. It will be issued in one week’s

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir---

Order, Sen. Njoroge. That is why I asked you whether you will commit your Chairman. There are so many things that need to be examined so that we get an answer. If you can do it in one week, that will be very good.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am sorry. I request for three weeks. A lot is required.

I give you two weeks.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, thank you.

Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo, I hope two weeks is okay.

Proceed, Sen. Obure.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I rise pursuant to the Standing Order 45 (2) (b) to seek a Statement from the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Energy regarding the provision of affordable and reliable power supply.

In the Statement, the Chairperson should:-

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I will reply in two weeks’ time.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, that is okay.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise pursuant to Standing Order 45

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, allow me to ride on that Statement. It is unusual for an elected leader to storm a police station for nothing. Could the Chairperson also tell us the reason why the Governor went to that police station in the first place?

Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, your request is sought under number two. It is already there.

Sen. Adan, how long do you require to answer?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I request two weeks to respond to that Statement.

Sen. (Prof.) Lesan, is two weeks good enough for you?

Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, do you have a Statement to seek?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, my secretary is yet to bring it. She is on her way.

Going where?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, to bring me the written Statement.

She cannot access the Chamber.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have alerted the Serjeant-At- Arms.

I have an approved Statement from you.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, allow me to use your copy.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am sorry, I asked this last week. I was talking about the other Statement which the Chair cleared.

Okay. I have been an agent of necessity for your needs. Are you sure you have asked that question yet I approved yesterday?

Sen. Ndiema, are you seeking a Statement?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I do not have a copy.

That is the end of requests for Statements. I am not going to prompt the Members to seek Statements.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Statement that had been sought by the Senate Minority Leader was supplementary information. The Statement was issued shortly before we left for the short recess. It has been available since last week. The supplementary issues that had been raised were available since last week. I shared a copy of the Statement with the Senate Minority Leader. We have also discussed and with your permission, I can highlight the key issues instead of reading the statement word for word. This is because we have discussed the crux of the information.

The first issue which had been raised was how much the Government spent in toto in resettlement and compensation of Internally Displaced Persons (IDPs) throughout the country. On the first page of the Statement, there is a breakdown of the various programmes and how much money has been spent. The programmes include “Hameni Rudi Nyumbani”, The Uganda Returnees Programme, Integrated IDPs Startup Capital and Land Resettlement Capital. There are also cash payments in various phases with a total of Kshs17.6 billion.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the second important issue is how the monies were paid per county. There was a request for further information on breakdown per county. Pages two and three of the Statement give the breakdown per county in various phases.

Thirdly, the issue which had been raised was on the full list of the integrated IDPs countrywide and their distribution per county. The Ministry has given us the breakdown in terms of households and not the individual IDPs. They are approximately 75 000 households and it shows a breakdown per county. The list is on pages four and five. The integrated IDPs are spread in 45 out of the 47 counties of Kenya. Literally, it is the entire country. The respective households per counties are provided. It includes the Tharaka- Nithi County.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the other issue is on what happened to the property of the IDPs who never went back. The Government does not have that information but has been encouraging the IDPs who might have been deprived of their property to provide information.

Such information is not available at the moment. Therefore, the

of deprivation of their property by third parties.

An issue was raised about the policy of the Government of Kenya regarding IDPs. The policy is, first and foremost, to implement fully the prevention, protection and assistance of IDPs Act of 2012. In that context, the Attorney General has advised that the IDPs Act only deals with 2007/2008 post election violence. That is the official policy now. Other than that, the President has made a public statement that the focus going forward will be on integrated IDPs now that, essentially, all those who were encamped ought to have been settled. Although we are seeing new claims. The position of the Government is that those claims need to be investigated because some of them could be false. But the greater and more fundamental challenge of integrated IDPs being assisted is a chapter that the Government wants to look at now. As we have seen, the entire country is affected by this problem.

The last question was on the number of houses built for IDPs; how many are completed and how many are in the process of being built. The Ministry has provided the information. A total of 66,880 houses have been built; 2,502 permanent houses for Turkana IDPs are at various levels of completion; and, 2,400 low-cost houses for IDPs settled on Government procured land are programmed to be constructed, beginning this financial year. There is a summary of the various interventions and annexes, which give further details on the operations of the Government on the issue of the IDPs.

In conclusion, I want to assure this House that the issue of IDPs is a serious national security problem that affects our national cohesion and future as a united country. The Jubilee Government will do whatever is within its power to ensure that we resolve this problem once and for all, as a basis of opening a new chapter for healing, reconciliation and rebuilding our country afresh, as we smart from the ashes of what happened to us eight years ago.

Thank you for the opportunity to be of service to this House.

Senate Majority Leader, before I allow interventions, did I hear you say that the issue of integrated IDPs is still open? Are you encouraging people to bring the names of the existing IDPs and details of those whose property got lost or was confiscated?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, first and foremost, the number that the Government has on integrated IDPs is 75,100 households, spread in 45 counties of our country. However, I have also added that on the question of the IDPs who might have lost land, which could have been taken over by third parties unlawfully, the position of the Government is that there are no complaints that have been lodged. The Government is encouraging such people to lodge complaints.

Does that include businesses; not just land?

Properly is property. That

On the issue of the Government's focus on IDPs, I think the President has made it very clear and repeated it informally; that we are not done with the issue of the integrated IDPs. It is true that the focus of the Jubilee Government will be to try and resolve with finality the issue of integrated IDPs, although some of them had been given some token; I think Kshs10,000. Therefore, we are not yet done with the issue of IDPs.

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. If you listened to the Senate Majority Leader in his opening remarks, he said that they had discussed the Report with Sen. Wetangula and he was only giving us a summary of the Report. Once supplementary questions are asked on the Floor of this House, they are the property of the House and everybody is entitled to know the details. Is it in order that a local arrangement was done to the extent of denying us a lot of information that we may have desired to know?

For instance, in Migori County during the 2007/2008 skirmishes, information on destruction of property was collected by the Red Cross. Since the police refused to collect information, the Red Cross had an inventory of all the property that was destroyed in Migori. Would I be in order to request that the Chairman should go back and get more information? Eight years is a long time and he has said that it cannot be trusted that people will give the right report at this time. I find the answer to be totally inadequate for the purposes of which it was asked. Is he in order?

Is it inadequate because he did not read out the whole Statement in its entirety?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is not in order because he denied us the information by having an intimate discussion with Sen. Wetangula.

I hear you and will take that into account.

Do you want to respond to that, Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I did not deny the House this information. Sen. Wetangula requested for the Statement and it has been available for more than a week now, but for logistical reasons, we were not able to read it. The full Report will be tabled in this House and, therefore, it is not a secret document shared between the Senate Minority Leader and I.

Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki, we will interrogate the Statement as much as we can, but like you said, it affects 45 out of 47 counties. Since it appears like everybody has an interest in this issue, I will allow the interrogation of the supplementary Statement by those who can do it, like Sen. Wetangula, who has had occasion to look at it. Normally when a Statement is laid on the Table of the House, it becomes the property of the House, like Sen. (Dr.) Machage has said. But many times, the Senators do not have a chance to look at it in detail before they can interrogate it.

Even as we interrogate it, I will give direction. Both the original and supplementary Statements are now available to any Senator. If you want to look at it, study and take notes on it, I will give direction that you get a copy of it. Then, on

Leader to take the interventions on the Statement from those who will have looked at it by then. That does not mean that I will defer the Statement. Sen. Wetangula, you can still raise the issues if you wish. But on Tuesday 26th April, 2016 any Senator who wants to raise an issue on the Statement and the supplementary one, will have the Senate Majority Leader deal with them.

Sen. Wetangula, with that in mind, you can make your interrogation.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to thank the Senate Majority Leader for bringing this supplementary information. Having looked at the Statement and listened to the Senate Majority Leader, several questions come to light.

We are aware of cases where people have been given money, squandered it and gone back to live in camps to wait for more money. The policy of closing camps is okay but we want to bring this matter to a conclusion.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, more importantly, there are people like those from Kiambaa Church in Uasin Gishu and others who fled from their farms. If, indeed, the Government is keen on keeping proper data and record of IDPs, I am sure people would be asked where they were living, whether they had land, the land title number and so on and so forth. Why would the Government be disinterested in establishing the ownership of land that IDPs left? Some of the resources being used for compensation---. If somebody owned 50 acres of land in Turbo and fled and they are unwilling to go back, the Government could acquire that land and dispose it of and put the money into a fund that will help the owners of the land to buy land elsewhere. It is inconceivable that the Government is not able to tabulate and catalogue---

Sen. Wetangula, remember you are seeking clarification. Do not take too long.

The Senate Minority Leader (Sen. Wetangula) : Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am seeking clarification and he is very busy recording and I appreciate that. Why would it be difficult to say that Sen. Billow abandoned two acres of land in Burnt Forest while Sen. Haji abandoned one acre in Endebess? It is very easy. All you need to do is to take details from the affected persons. Who is occupying those parcels of land? If my house was burnt down, my land was not burnt. It is still there and remains a critical component in evaluating the resettlement of the IDPs. It is extremely unfair for a person who was living and farming on 50 acres of land in Elgeyo-Marakwet or Uasin Gishu to be then compensated with half-an-acre in Mai Mahiu for no mistake of his own.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we want to bring this to a closure. I thank you for directing that this matter should come up again on Tuesday. I know that the Senate Majority Leader has been taking notes and there are other issues that we will still need to raise. We should spare Tuesday next week to deal with this issue as you have directed. These are some of the clarifications I have and many more that I will come back with.

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Did I hear the Senate Minority Leader say that somebody who had 10 acres of land in Burnt Forest was compensated with half-an-acre in Mai Mahiu? Could he clarify that?

The Senate Minority Leader (Sen. Wetangula) : Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the highest amount of money given to any IDP has been Kshs400,000 for those in favoured areas and Kshs10,000 for those in neglected areas like Bungoma, Kakamega, Trans Nzoia and others.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am seeking clarification and he is very busy recording and I appreciate that. Why would it be difficult to say that Sen. Billow abandoned two acres of land in Burnt Forest while Sen. Haji abandoned one acre in Endebess? It is very easy. All you need to do is to take details from the affected persons. Who is occupying those parcels of land? If my house was burnt down, my land was not burnt. It is still there and remains a critical component in evaluating the resettlement of the IDPs. It is extremely unfair for a person who was living and farming on 50 acres of land in Elgeyo-Marakwet or Uasin Gishu to be then compensated with half-an-acre in Mai Mahiu for no mistake of his own. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we want to bring this to a closure. I thank you for directing that this matter should come up again on Tuesday. I know that the Senate Majority Leader has been taking notes and there are other issues that we will still need to raise. We should spare Tuesday next week to deal with this issue as you have directed. These are some of the clarifications I have and many more that I will come back with.

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Did I hear the Senate Minority Leader say that somebody who had 10 acres of land in Burnt Forest was compensated with half-an-acre in Mai Mahiu? Could he clarify that? The Senate Minority Leader (

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the highest amount of money given to any IDP has been Kshs400,000 for those in favoured areas and Kshs10,000 for those in neglected areas like Bungoma, Kakamega, Trans Nzoia and others.

-

Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo, I requested you to move from that microphone because it does not work well.

Please, move to your normal sitting position because I cannot see you properly. Something is wrong with that microphone. Could you move to where you normally sit?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Senate Minority Leader has mentioned some interesting facts here which we need him to substantiate. Does he mean that there are lesser Kenyans than others? He said that some IDPs were given Kshs10,000 while others Kshs400,000. Could he elaborate and tell us whether he meant the same IDPs or something else because this is very serious?

The Senate Minority Leader (Sen. Wetangula) : Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the distinguished Senator for West Pokot probably does not live in this country. The President and his deputy themselves went out to give our money to the IDPs. They announced beforehand that they were giving Kshs400,000 to each IDP. I also know that in Bungoma where I come from and represent here, with a staggering 450,000 households, not a single IDP has ever received the Kshs400,000. Not one!

Sen. Wetangula, let me give guidance on this issue. I deferred this issue essentially to Tuesday, so that Senators can interrogate this document. Therefore, you should ask the categorisation of the payment; whether it was Kshs400,000 or whatever number that was paid without talking about “favoured areas.” It is important that you seek the reason for categorisation of the payment before you talk about some areas being favoured more than others. This is an issue – like you have said correctly – that is not localised. So, I want us to look at it with the seriousness that it deserves without trying to trivialise or make it look like it is not a serious issue.

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. You are right. Sen. Wetangula was a Minister and I was a Permanent Secretary (PS) in the previous Government. Therefore, are the figures that the previous Government gave different from those that this Government has given? Let us not confuse this. We need to know the reasons why the IDPs were initially given Kshs10,000 and then Kshs400,000 later.

What is your point of order, Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki?

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I rise to ask for the Chair’s guidance.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the distinguished Senator for West Pokot probably does not live in this country. The President and his deputy themselves went out to give our money to the IDPs. They announced beforehand that they were giving Kshs400,000 to each IDP. I also know that in Bungoma where I come from and represent here, with a staggering 450,000 households, not a single IDP has ever received the Kshs400,000. Not one!

Sen. Wetangula, let me give guidance on this issue. I deferred this issue essentially to Tuesday, so that Senators can interrogate this document. Therefore, you should ask the categorisation of the payment; whether it was Kshs400,000 or whatever number that was paid without talking about “favoured areas.” It is important that you seek the reason for categorisation of the payment before you talk about some areas being favoured more than others. This is an issue – like you have said correctly – that is not localised. So, I want us to look at it with the seriousness that it deserves without trying to trivialise or make it look like it is not a serious issue.

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. You are right. Sen. Wetangula was a Minister and I was a Permanent Secretary (PS) in the previous Government. Therefore, are the figures that the previous Government gave different from those that this Government has given? Let us not confuse this. We need to know the reasons why the IDPs were initially given Kshs10,000 and then Kshs400,000 later.

What is your point of order, Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki?

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I rise to ask for the Chair’s guidance.

The Chair of the Committee?

I am seeking guidance from you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. This matter is of great national interest and it is affecting

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Would I be on order to ask the Senate Majority Leader, while preparing the answers to bring before this House

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. As I request this point of order, let me declare my interest. I am one of the victims that lost a lot of property in Migori County. Could the Chairperson clarify whether the Government was only interested – this has been asked by Sen. Wetangula and it has not been clarified – in compensating for land only or for other property that was lost during this time? There was an investor, I think from central Kenya, who had invested in the famous big hotels in Kisumu County. He lost billions and that is not being addressed. I lost millions, amongst others, and I have not even received Kshs10,000.

Could he also collect more information from the Red Cross as he brings the next answers?

payments which have been done. There are those people who received Kshs400,000---

Sen. Njoroge, is that not exactly what I said not so long ago about categorization?

Okay, fine. (Sen. Wetangula resumed his seat)

No, I will give you the Floor because I think we must get direction one way or the other.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, most obliged. I think we will interrogate ---

payments which have been done. There are those people who received Kshs400,000---

Sen. Njoroge, is that not exactly what I said not so long ago about categorization?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, okay. The last one that I would like to know is the exact acreage, which was not given back to the victims who were the owners ---

Sen. Njoroge, the trouble is that we are going back and forth and we are discussing the same issue. Sen. Wetangula and Sen. (Dr.) Machage have raised the issue of property and businesses lost. It is coming out as the Lowest Common Multiple (LCM) .

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, most obliged. I think we will interrogate ---

Sen. Wetangula, I will hear you but we have to make two decisions. I have already ordered that that matter comes back on Tuesday, 26thApril, 2016 and that Senators will have the opportunity to interrogate the document properly. It is a matter of great importance. I do not want trivialization of the issues. Remember as I sit here, I represent a county and I am unable to debate with you on the issues that are coming up. I want it to be treated as a serious issue that is affecting everybody, so that we can deal with the issues.

Why are you raising your hands? Why can you not press your buttons and intervene?

Thank you, Senator. Order! All the points of order that are coming up have been contributions. So, let me deal with the people who want to contribute first. Sen. Billow, did you seek the Floor?

Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Proceed.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want the Senate Majority Leader to clarify with regard to IDPs what the Government’s definition and policy regarding IDPs is. Is it about the IDPs of post-election violence in Rift Valley only or is it IDPs of conflicts that arise, for example, in North Eastern? For instance in Mandera County, everyone knows that there was conflict four years ago and up to now, we have thousands

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want the Majority Leader to clarify if these IDPs who are Kenyans only cover the 2008 post elections violence or it includes the rest of Kenyans who have fought and also have become IDPs? Even these ones in Mandera fought and that is why they are IDPs. So, I want the Majority Leader to clarify and tell us the Government’s policy and how much of the Kshs17 billion has been spent on IDPs in Mandera County and other counties in the northern parts of this country where there have been perennial conflicts between communities.

Thank you.

Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, please, be brief. Remember that these are interventions.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to agree with the Majority Leader that we have many con artists in Kenya who will want to take advantage of an attempt to register new the IDPs. Since you already have 75,00 households, could he confirm to us how much they intend to pay them and when they are going to make that payment?

Secondly, the people who became IDPs and lost land; that land was not lost. The land is still there. So, unless the Government wants to promote impunity and gloss over criminal activities, could the Majority Leader tell us when the Government is going to offer security to the IDPs so that they can go back to their former pieces of land?

Finally, in one of the cases, an IDP by the name of Mr. Adrian Muteshi was displaced from his land in Turbo. He was a strong man, he went to the High Court and an order was made that he goes back to the land. Could the Majority Leader come with the answer and confirm that security has been given to Mr. Muteshi to go back to his land in Turbo and that the Deputy President, Hon. William Samoei Ruto, has paid Mr. Muteshi the Kshs5 million that he was ordered to pay him for having displaced him from his land in Turbo?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to thank the Leader of Majority for handling this matter well and also to thank you for postponing it to give us time to look at it. As he goes to do it, I remember when this issue came, I asked one thing: What is the definition of an IDP? I did not get an answer.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, is a person who was displaced and went back to his land and is now settled still an IDP? There are people who were squatters somewhere and they were also displaced. They did not have land but they were displaced from their place of residence. Are these also IDPs? I also asked, since the Government is committed to tackling the issue of IDPs, could it go further and look at historical IDPs? There are those communities which were completely dispossessed by the colonialists and they are still landless. Those are the original IDPs. Could we start from where the rain started beating us?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, there are those IDPs who were displaced to foreign lands like Tanzania and Uganda and are considered as foreigners there. I heard that there are some of them who came back from Uganda. Have we profiled them and ensured that they are also treated equally like other IDPs?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want the Senate Majority Leader to clarify with regard to IDPs what the Government’s definition and policy regarding IDPs is. Is it about the IDPs of post-election violence in Rift Valley only or is it IDPs of conflicts that arise, for example, in North Eastern? For instance in Mandera County, everyone knows that there was conflict four years ago and up to now, we have thousands

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want the Leader of Majority to further get thorough clarification: IDPs are IDPs in Kenya. These people were displaced in Kenya by Kenyans themselves. During the 2007/2008 post- election violence, in Molo, for example, people lost their herds of cows and sheep. Their livestock was stolen and their houses were burnt later on and people were moved. At the same time, the same behavior exhibited itself in Mandera, Wajir, West Pokot and Turkana and at the same time, we decided to kill that behaviour which is cattle rustling. This bad habit is by Kenyans against other Kenyans. So, people were displaced from their homes.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, could the Leader of Majority in getting fine details of the same, tell us where these people who were affected in Laikipia, Turkana and West Pokot are because of cattle rustling? Nobody is talking about them.

Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo, like I said, you are not going to find that answer in this statement because this statement was sought specific to the post-election violence IDPs. So, you will not find issues about cattle rustling in this statement unless you bring it as a substantive question or issue that you want to be explained. You will not find it there, however, you look at it. It is not there.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, fortunately, this answer does not talk about post election violence. It talks about Internally Displaced Persons (IDPs) , who include cattle rustling victims.

If you look at the body of that Statement, you will realise that he is talking about post-election violence, starting from page one.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, as we correct what Sen. Wetangula said, maybe we should form a select Committee to work on it.

True. Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, is your point of order still live?

This issue is becoming too protracted because if you look at the issue by Sen. Billow and the one that has been raised by Sen. Ndiema, the statement being issued by the Leader of Majority was specific to the post- election violence IDPs. I think it is important to understand that it is the reason why it is a restricted statement to only the issues that were raised. If you want to go far back, I cannot say anything about it from where I am sitting. That is why the two leaders may want to consider the proposal made by Sen. Wetangula and decide on how to craft whatever they want to bring before us.

Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, you are on both lists. So, like I said, I will not allow points of order because people are rising on point of order when in essence, they are contributing. So, I will give you a chance. Let Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo contribute first.

the Senator for Trans-Nzoia withdraw those words, so that they are not part of the record of the House? It was not the Senator for West Pokot; it was the Senator for Trans-Nzoia.

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Sen. Haji, what is your point of order? All of you must realise that we are taking too much time on this issue.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, is the hon. Senator for Kakamega in order to pick on the Statement made by the Senator for Trans-Nzoia, when we know that during the colonial times, the Maasais were displaced from their land? It is not only the people of Trans-Nzoia who were displaced, but also the Maasais. He was talking in general terms.

Order, Senators! This issue will disintegrate in such a way that we shall not recognize what we are discussing in the first instance. I will not allow that to happen. The Senate Majority Leader will confirm to me two issues. One---

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Sen. Ndiema, I will not go back to the issue raised by Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale. I will not allow you to go on that line. If I wanted you to withdraw or order that the words be expunged, I would have done it.

You are not on microphone and so, you are not on the HANSARD. Give him the microphone.

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Sen. Haji, what is your point of order? All of you must realise that we are taking too much time on this issue.

Sen. (prof.) Kindiki, we need to get a way forward on this issue. I had proposed that we deal with this issue on Tuesday and there is a proposal that we have a Motion. Sen. Khaniri had come up with a Motion, but it was deferred pending this Statement. Let me know what you think about this. Do you want us to continue with the matter on Tuesday or call the Cabinet Secretary? Will calling the Cabinet Secretary help the situation or will the route proposed by Sen. Wetangula be more beneficial to the House? I would like to hear, in two minutes, what your take is on all those issues, so that we can proceed with the other business of the House.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, on a point of information. Whom do you want to inform?

I want to inform Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale. Sen. (Dr.) Machage, it is too late; he is not on the Floor.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, is the Senator for Kakamega in order to impute improper motives on me, when I did not mention any Kenyan community as having displaced other communities in the historical times? I mention - which is a fact - that the British colonialists displaced some communities. I also mentioned that there are squatters in Trans-Nzoia who were displaced, including the Luhyas and other people who are not necessarily from one community. I am speaking for them. Is it in order for Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale to introduce the element of community?

Sen. (prof.) Kindiki, we need to get a way forward on this issue. I had proposed that we deal with this issue on Tuesday and there is a proposal that we have a Motion. Sen. Khaniri had come up with a Motion, but it was deferred pending this Statement. Let me know what you think about this. Do you want us to continue with the matter on Tuesday or call the Cabinet Secretary? Will calling the Cabinet Secretary help the situation or will the route proposed by Sen. Wetangula be more beneficial to the House? I would like to hear, in two minutes, what your take is on all those issues, so that we can proceed with the other business of the House.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, on a point of information. Whom do you want to inform?

I want to inform Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale. Sen. (Dr.) Machage, it is too late; he is not on the Floor.

important, given the complexity and the unending nature of this matter, that the Cabinet Secretary appears before either a Committee of this House or a Committee of the Whole in an informal session. I also want to confirm and support what---

On a point of information, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Sen. (Prof.) Kindiki, do you want to be informed by Sen. Musila?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have no problem. He is my neighbour and senior; he can inform me.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to inform my good friend, the Senate Majority Leader, that immediately after the violence, a Committee was formed under the chairmanship of the former Permanent Secretary for Planning, Prof. Sambili. I was a Member of that Committee. A compilation was made of the IDPs.

What appears to have happened is that the list that Senate Majority Leader may wish to have access to has continued to be amended and added fraudulently. Therefore, I want to inform my friend that a list exists but perhaps that has already been compensated, and I think this is a new list. If we are not careful, we will end up adding people who are not Internally Displaced Persons (IDPs) .

Thank you for that information.

In light of that information from Sen. Musila, I suggest that the Cabinet Secretary should appear and give whatever information he has. I also support what my brother the Leader of Minority has said; this Senate will do a great deal of good to this country if we can have an ad hoc committee specifically to deal with this issue. If possible, that committee, to show seriousness, can even be co-led by myself and Sen. Wetangula to remove any indication that any Senator from the Jubilee or CORD side wants to take advantage of the issue. That way, this Senate can give this country a long lasting solution on a matter that has divided our country for a long period of time.

Very well. My understanding of the way forward is to find out how soon the Cabinet Secretary can come to the Committee of the Whole so that everybody has a chance to interrogate this matter. Tuesday is not possible because it is too soon.

If you still want to hear me, it is fine but it would be the same thing. I would rather I pass these concerns to the CS today so that as he prepares, he can come and deal with everything, including these issues.

Then I propose that we do it on Thursday next week.

I will follow up on the issue.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have no problem. He is my neighbour and senior; he can inform me.

I cannot direct on the issue of the Motion. That is a decision that you, people, can make.

Sen. (Prof.) Lesan, what is your point of order.

This is a very complicated matter and I think we might consider asking the Cabinet Secretary for Lands and Urban Development and also the Cabinet Secretary for Interior and National Coordination so we do not have to call them again and again.

That is a very important point.

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. It better be a point of order, Sen. Okong’o.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, before you arrange the time the Cabinet Secretaries will be coming here, I have seen here that the list of the integrated IDPs in Nyamira would be profiled shortly. I do not know whether the profile from Nyamira would be available or we just interrogate the same answers?

Sen. Okong’o, you have a good chance of interrogating the Cabinet Secretary why the profiling has not been done. I a m directing that the Leader of Majority invites the Cabinet Secretary to come for a meeting with the relevant committee of the Senate at which all Senators will be invited so that all matters pertaining to this issue can be interrogated to completion, pending the other matters proposed by both leaders of the House; Leader of Majority and Leader of Minority. This will take place Thursday next week.

The point made by Sen. (Prof.) Lesan is very important. You may want to consider inviting the Cabinet Secretary for Lands and Urban Development and any other Cabinet Secretary. We want to deal with these issues once and for all. That would be my direction.

That Statement has taken a very long time but I think it was very important. I can see Sen. Billow is not here to issue the next Statement. Anybody from the Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget to issue Statement (b) ? Sen. Billow, are you ready to issue the Statement?

I am ready, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Let me start with the one for Central Bank of Kenya.

We are going in sequence so it is Statement (b) .

I cannot direct on the issue of the Motion. That is a decision that you, people, can make.

Sen. (Prof.) Lesan, what is your point of order.

This is a very complicated matter and I think we might consider asking the Cabinet Secretary for Lands and Urban Development and also the Cabinet Secretary for Interior and National Coordination so we do not have to call them again and again.

That is a very important point.

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. It better be a point of order, Sen. Okong’o.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, before you arrange the time the Cabinet Secretaries will be coming here, I have seen here that the list of the integrated IDPs in Nyamira would be profiled shortly. I do not know whether the profile from Nyamira would be available or we just interrogate the same answers?

Sen. Okong’o, you have a good chance of interrogating the Cabinet Secretary why the profiling has not been done. I a m directing that the Leader of Majority invites the Cabinet Secretary to come for a meeting with the relevant committee of the Senate at which all Senators will be invited so that all matters pertaining to this issue can be interrogated to completion, pending the other matters proposed by both leaders of the House; Leader of Majority and Leader of Minority. This will take place Thursday next week.

The point made by Sen. (Prof.) Lesan is very important. You may want to consider inviting the Cabinet Secretary for Lands and Urban Development and any other Cabinet Secretary. We want to deal with these issues once and for all. That would be my direction.

That Statement has taken a very long time but I think it was very important. I can see Sen. Billow is not here to issue the next Statement. Anybody from the Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget to issue Statement (b) ? Sen. Billow, are you ready to issue the Statement?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the request for a statement on the misappropriation of public funds by the National Bank of Kenya (NBK) was made by Sen. Wetangula on 30th March, 2016. In the Statement, he sought a number of clarifications. The first one is whether the Cabinet Secretary in charge of National Treasury is aware that NBK is in a financial crisis and has reported a loss of Kshs120

The NBK is not in a financial crisis and it reported a total loss of Kshs1.2 billion and not Kshs120 billion.

The second question was whether the Cabinet Secretary is aware that the said unaccounted for funds were secured by the bank’s top managers. The Cabinet Secretary is not aware of any accounted for funds secured by the bank’s top managers. The Cabinet Secretary is however aware that the Central Bank of Kenya(CBK) has commissioned a special audit of the bank and expects that the audit will reveal any irregularities.

The third question was: “What steps have been taken, if any, by the Treasury, to secure public funds lost that belong to, among others, the National Social Security Fund (NSSF), the National Hospital Insurance Fund (NHIF), the Retirement Benefits Authority(RBA) and other public institutions that have a stake; not to mention that the bank is wholly Government and quasi-government owned.

The Cabinet Secretary is not aware of the funds belonging to NSSF, NHIF, RBA or any other public institution that have been lost in the bank. The Governor of CBK has assured the Cabinet Secretary that the funds deposited with the bank are safe and the Cabinet Secretary, on that basis, has assured the public on the safety of their funds in the bank.

Regarding the action taken to investigate and establish individuals responsible for the loss and punish those found culpable, the following actions have been taken: The Board of Directors has sent six of the top managers including the Chief Executive Officer (CEO) on compulsory leave to allow for special audit commissioned by the CBK to establish if there are any irregularities. The affected managers have also reported to the CID and recorded statements. If any of the managers and or any other person in the bank is found to have breached any regulations, appropriate action will be taken against them according to the law.

The Senator also wanted to know the role of CBK as a regulator and banker of the Government through the Bank Inspection Department to ensure that the public funds deposited in the bank cannot be misused or misappropriated. The Banking Act, Cap. 488 empowers the CBK to regulate the business of banking in Kenya. Specifically, the Act empowers the bank as follows---- They are all listed and the Senator has the copy. It includes inspection of any banking institution and its agencies including the books of accounts and records. It also includes vetting of officials by carrying out an assessment of the professional and moral suitability of persons managing or controlling such banks. It also includes examination and control of groups by requiring legal and management structure of the banking group. Section 33 involves

advising and making recommendations to the institution with regard to the conduct of the business, generally.

The sixth question the Senator sought is the role of the National Treasury as the custodian of public funds to ensure that the funds are not misused or misappropriated. Treasury is responsible for the formulation of policy in the banking sector, except monetary policy, which is specifically provided for in the CBK Act, under Article 231 of the Constitution of Kenya.

Lastly, the reasons why NBK did not alert National Treasury to avert this

and as a bank, it is regulated by the CBK under the Banking Act. Section 33(b), (c) and

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, could the Chairman table in this House the loans given to members of staff and directors of the NBK as well as a list of all the people owing that bank huge loans of Kshs10 million and above? When he tables that list, could he indicate the ones that are non-performing loans?

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I respect my brother, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale very much. However, is it in order for the honourable Senator to request for information from a bank that touches on the relationship between a

Yes, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I was very clear on the information available to me. The bank has demonstrated itself to the public. No bank can send away six top managers if they are not---

April 21, 2016 SENATE DEBATES Order, Sen. Wetangula!

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I would like to advise the Senator for Bungoma County that in any business, be it a bank, one does business with an aim to make profit. However, when doing business, one can also make a loss. National Social Security Fund (NSSF) is an investor in the NBK which can make a loss like any other bank. Therefore, the Kshs1.2 billion is a loss on the operations of the bank. It is not a loss of the deposits. Therefore, all the other entities that have deposits there are not at risk because it is not a loss of deposits, but on business. I would like to inform him that ---

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Before the Chairman purports to advise me, is he in order to say that NSSF is a depositor at the NBK when, in fact, it is a bona fide shareholder.

Those are just differences in semantics. You may be a shareholder and a depositor. It is just common sense. I may not have studied economics or commerce, but that is common English language.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I said that NSSF is an investor. That means a shareholder in the English language. There are many private banks that reported losses. The NBK is not the only bank. The NBK has been reporting losses for many years from the time of the former managing director. Therefore, reporting losses does not mean the bank’s deposits are affected. People should not confuse those two things.

Secondly, Sen. Wetangula asked a question on the status of the accounts of the NBK. The accounts of any company quoted on the Nairobi Stock Exchange are public documents and are available on the website of the NSE or that of the NBK. It is not privileged information. It is public information and he can access it anywhere.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, Sen. Wetangula also asked about the lending. Lending in any bank is guided by prudential guidelines which are international standards adopted by all the banks in the world as well as the guidelines provided for in the Banking Act.

It would be wrong to say that the lending at the NBK is characterized by irregularities that he has mentioned unless he tables evidence. Therefore, I will respond to that question when he tables his evidence. They remain mere allegations until and unless he tables evidence.

On the last point, I agree with Sen. Kagwe that we need to be very cautious on the statements we make. When we say that a bank is being run like a kiosk, we will create panic amongst the depositors. I would also like to advise the Senator for Kakamega that the confidentiality rules that bar anyone from getting information relating to the accounts of the account holders in that bank are the same ones that have been used by the Central Bank of Kenya (CBK) in denying his party leaders access to information relating to Eurobond.

Order. Let me make the ruling first.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I respect my brother, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale very much. However, is it in order for the honourable Senator to request for information from a bank that touches on the relationship between a

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Thank you for remaining hawk-eyed and seeing the right Standing Order.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, assist me to get the attention of the Chairperson. Equally important, I would like the Chairperson to prevail upon the Chairman. The fact that he is a financial expert does not mean that the rest of us who might be laymen in that field are ignorant. Information which he is withholding from me is now---

Sen. Kagwe has an intervention.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I am on a point of order.

Okay, you are right. Sen. Kagwe, hold your guns.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the information that he is trying to shield me from accessing is in possession of the Government. The supreme law which is the Constitution says in Article 34 that every citizen has the right of access to any information held by the State. Therefore, you are now advancing the same lie that was used by the Governor of the CBK in denying the---

Order! Senators do not lie. They may say untruths but they do not lie.

minutes. I refer you to Standing Order No.92. This House is guided by Standing Orders. So, everybody should look at Standing Order No.92.

Standing Order No.92 (5) states as follows:- “Notwithstanding this Standing Order, the Speaker may allow reference to any matter before the Senate or a Committee.”

Paragraph (1) states:- “Subject to paragraph (5), no Senator shall refer to any particular matter which is sub judice or which, by the operation of any written law is secret.”

However, this House has powers also to listen to secret matters in camera. So, subject to the information that will be tabled on the Floor of this House on Tuesday, a decision will be made whether, henceforth, the matter will be listened to in camera. It is so ordered.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I said all these things because I wanted to persuade you to direct that he must bring that information and table all the documents that I have asked for. They are critical. They include insider trading and non- performing loans. It is the evidence we want in this Senate of the Republic of Kenya for Kenyans to see.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, when you read the Standing Orders, you rightly indicated that it is subject to several things, including the fact that it can be heard in camera. However, I do not recall - and I could be wrong somebody can correct me - in the history of this country where the loan book was asked for in Parliament. I have never heard of that. We are creating a very dangerous situation. It is possible that today, those people with loan books, those transacting at the National Bank of Kenya (NBK) and those who want to apply for loans in the NBK can start getting worried that their names will be splashed around here in the Senate.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we need to be sensitive to some of these things and realise that we are dealing with sensitive business where confidence is everything. When it comes to banks, confidence is everything. Whereas we want to punish those who have misused their positions in the banks, it is important that we do not do so and punish depositors and good citizens of this country.

Order, I am on my feet. An hon. Senator: Two of them!

Yes, two of them. If you followed the chronology of our discussions, an allegation was raised by Sen. Wetangula and substantiation demanded by Sen. Billow. Sen. Mutahi Kagwe raised an issue of protection of matters of banking to citizens of this country an issue that made me call your attention to our Standing Order with a clause.

On subsequent discussions or contributions, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale has demanded that you lay on the Table of this House certain information that you think is very privileged. I will make a ruling on that on Tuesday. It is so ordered.

If it is on what I have already ruled on, no. Proceed, Sen. Wetangula. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the Chairman did not respond to one of my requests: The management of the CBK and its ability to superintend over banks is wanting given the situation that we have witnessed of late. He completely avoided to answer that.

I have not yet called him to respond. It is part of your request.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, he

Yes, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. He is advancing the same misguided strategy that was used by the Governor of the CBK who wants to shield corruption that was perpetuated through Eurobond in the same way that we want to reject corruption that is being perpetuated---

Order, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale. I request that you desist from that matter until Sen. Wetangula tables the information that he has on Tuesday. Please hold your guns.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I just want to bring to the attention of the---

Very well, finish answering the other questions that were raised.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I have answered him. I do not know what he wants me to answer. However, I have answered all the questions raised by the hon. Senator unless he did not listen to me. He asked four questions and I answered all of them.

You are forgetting one thing; what is going on with the NBK, Chase Bank and Imperial Bank is public knowledge. It is in the public domain.

So, we cannot pretend to conceal what is already in the public. All he wanted was an assurance from you that all is well with the National Bank. Can you do it or say all is not well?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, he has it in writing and I have read it. That is the assurance from the Cabinet Secretary of the National Treasury; that as far as he is concerned, there is absolutely no problem and the public and other monies in the National Bank are safe. May I read it once more?

No, that is my prerogative. Proceed, Sen. Billow.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I just want to bring to the attention of the---

Very well, finish answering the other questions that were raised.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I have answered him. I do not know what he wants me to answer. However, I have answered all the questions raised by the hon. Senator unless he did not listen to me. He asked four questions and I answered all of them.

You are forgetting one thing; what is going on with the NBK, Chase Bank and Imperial Bank is public knowledge. It is in the public domain.

So, we cannot pretend to conceal what is already in the public. All he wanted was an assurance from you that all is well with the National Bank. Can you do it or say all is not well?

You do not have to because you have answered. Kindly have a sit.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, listening to the tone of the Chairperson and that of Sen. Kagwe and their demeanour, it should strike the Chair that what they are doing is over and above giving us information which we want. Since when was the Chairman given power to defend information which is not his? He is a conveyer. Can the Chair direct that it is not his responsibility to defend the ills that are ongoing at the National Bank? He should give us that information and we shall live with it. We are protecting the depositors.

Order! Order Sen. Billow.

On a point of Order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. An allegation was

Order Senator! Withdraw and apologise.

Let us give him time to declare the interest.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, may I remind my colleague, the tycoon for Nyeri County, Sen. Kagwe, that when he starts exhibiting short fuss in debate, we might start wondering---

Order! The Senate Minority

encourage my colleagues to learn the art of debate.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I do not know whether I am in order to request the Senate Minority Leader; my leader, to tell us his interests since he told us that his law firm used to act for the National Bank. I am worried there can be conflict of interest because he might get the information from the law firm.

That is legitimate. I get you well. The Senate Minority Leader, you have been challenged to declare your interest.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I have no interest to declare in matters of National Bank. May I advise my sister Sen. Elachi to desist from calling me “my leader from western Kenya” I am a national leader. I am not a leader of western Kenya.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, by lieutenant, I meant---

Order! The Senate Minority

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, if Sen. Wetangula is not a lieutenant of hon. Raila, I totally withdraw and apologise.

Very good! That is enough. Let us move on because we have had enough of entertainment. Let us deal with business.

The Chairperson of the Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget, you have another statement to issue. Would you like to execute Statement (c) ?

Yes.

April 21, 2016 SENATE DEBATES SUPPLIERS AND CONTRACTORS

Order, Sen. Wetangula! Were you not the questioner?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, by lieutenant, I meant---

I have asked you do to---

But Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, there must be some natural justice. I must explain because he wants to move from being a lieutenant to being a president.

Order! Sen. Kagwe! Let us have some decorum.

Order! Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale!

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, this is a very important statement for the Senator because it is about the pending bills. Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo wanted the Treasury to explain the issue surrounding failure by county governments to pay for goods and services supplied by suppliers and contractors. The response from the Treasury is that they have reflected on the above and would like to advise as follows:-

April 21, 2016 SENATE DEBATES SUPPLIERS AND CONTRACTORS

Order, Sen. Wetangula! Were you not the questioner?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I thank my Chairman, Sen. Billow, for the detailed response regarding what is happening in our counties. However, he has just presented his answer like one could give information and it has not solved what I asked for. I wanted to know clearly whether there are Kenyans who entered into contracts with the 47 county governments and assemblies to carry out projects and supply goods. In the middle of their business, some have ended up not being paid at all.

This could either be as a result of a governor or whoever is in charge changing the agreement. Some of them have suddenly ended up being bankrupt. They took loans from banks and they have sold their property to repay them. I know one of them who collapsed and died in Kitale because of huge debts.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, in my county, a Mr. Said has had to sell all his lorries and yet these projects were given to him and they did not pay him. I particularly want more clarification on when the law has been breached. What does the National Treasury and national Government want us to do? When you say that the law has been breached and we have brought your attention to it, what do you want the Senate to do? I told you that it is now the Treasury to quickly call the relevant arm of Government to deal with---.

Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo, a practice is developing in this House where questions or clarifications become contributions on the Floor of the House. The tradition that has been in this House - for us who have been in the House a bit longer - is to focus on one or a maximum of two questions and execute them so that we save on time. If you could save us the stories, just

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, it was requested by Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo.

Very well. I am sorry.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, this one is even worse than the National Bank of Kenya (NBK) that we are talking about. It is touching on so many Kenyans and it is so serious.

Just go to the question.

Order! Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale!

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, this is a very important statement for the Senator because it is about the pending bills.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, thank you for this opportunity. Let me seek further clarity because these days it has become a pre-occupation. Whenever anybody asks me for my number, the next thing they will do is call me and ask me to help them push for payment in the county government.

I would like to clarify further ---

Allocation of Revenue Act for years 2013/2014 and 2014/2015. So, there should actually be no payments outstanding to suppliers in respect to those years.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I thank my Chairman, Sen. Billow, for the detailed response regarding what is happening in our counties. However, he has just presented his answer like one could give information and it has not solved what I asked for. I wanted to know clearly whether there are Kenyans who entered into contracts with the 47 county governments and assemblies to carry out projects and supply goods. In the middle of their business, some have ended up not being paid at all.

This could either be as a result of a governor or whoever is in charge changing the agreement. Some of them have suddenly ended up being bankrupt. They took loans from banks and they have sold their property to repay them. I know one of them who collapsed and died in Kitale because of huge debts.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, in my county, a Mr. Said has had to sell all his lorries and yet these projects were given to him and they did not pay him. I particularly want more clarification on when the law has been breached. What does the National Treasury and national Government want us to do? When you say that the law has been breached and we have brought your attention to it, what do you want the Senate to do? I told you that it is now the Treasury to quickly call the relevant arm of Government to deal with---.

Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo, a practice is developing in this House where questions or clarifications become contributions on the Floor of the House. The tradition that has been in this House - for us who have been in the House a bit longer - is to focus on one or a maximum of two questions and execute them so that we save on time. If you could save us the stories, just

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, this one is even worse than the National Bank of Kenya (NBK) that we are talking about. It is touching on so many Kenyans and it is so serious.

Just go to the question.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I am going there. The Principal Secretary (PS) , through the Chairman has acknowledged that the Public Finance Management (PFM) Act and the Integrated Financial Management Information System (IFMIS) do not allow county governments to enter into commitments without the necessary budgetary provisions. Now that you know that they have gone into commitments, what steps will you take because they are already in those commitments?

Another clarification that I am seeking is; you have said that their Kshs30 billion is lying at the Central Bank of Kenya (CBK) , where you suspect that this could be the money that should be paid to suppliers. What penalty is the National Treasury meting out on this people who are lazy counties? If there are such counties which do not exhaust their money, could it be a reason where the Senate should dig deeper? We may be giving counties money that they cannot spend.

Order! You are sliding to where I have told you not to. The Chair is not a computer to begin analyzing and synthesizing your speech and begin to look for where the question is. You have already asked two questions and if there is a third one, go to it. I can give you that latitude and save us from the other lyrics.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, thank you. Lastly, the National Treasury has said that suppliers are urged to report such cases to the National Treasury. What is the procedure for each of them to raise this problem so that they can be paid? Do you want these debts to be categorized per county, and who do they send it to? Is it directly to the National Treasury or is there a stopover where they have to send it through?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, thank you for this opportunity. Let me seek further clarity because these days it has become a pre-occupation. Whenever anybody asks me for my number, the next thing they will do is call me and ask me to help them push for payment in the county government.

I would like to clarify further ---

Do you want to clarify or you want the Chairperson to clarify?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I would like to seek further clarification from the Chairperson. I know there are especially small scale business persons who trade with Kshs1million or Kshs2 million, who have incurred massive losses as a result of non-payment by counties.

Could the Chairperson clarify whether there will be mechanisms for reparations for those massive losses that have been incurred? In addition to that, he should clarify whether his Committee might be in a position to assist in that investigation that the Ministry is proposing so that we can recommend various actions, including possible

The last one is, I know in Government expenditure, you only spend what there is. In other words, I cannot purport to procure for a service or goods when there is no money in that budget line. In that inventory, can it be demonstrated that there was money before certain services were procured and why that money was not there, ultimately. I remember President Kibaki said, when people are in ---

Order!

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, thank you. If you had been in the House a little bit earlier, you may not have raised your third question. Anyway, the Chairperson will decide how to handle it.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I might have missed that when I was alighting from my car. I was listening to the debate as I was coming.

This House starts business at

funds that have been committed.

The funds are released to county governments by the Controller of Budget on the basis of requisitions that have been submitted. Those requisitions identify for what activities they want the money. So, the money will have been released to them and it is committed when it is in their operations accounts.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, therefore, it is clear that what is happening in counties is that when money has been released to them, based on requisition for a particular activity, they divert that money to some other unplanned for activity which may not have been budgeted for and for which requisition has not been made.

Consequently, when those other projects for which the funds were released are completed, there will be no money to pay them. I think that is what has happened and it is an illegality as per the Public Finance Management Act. That is why Treasury says you forward that list of debts to them so that they can take action.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, regarding Sen. Hassan’s point on reparation for losses, I think that can come through a legal action by the individual suppliers or contractors. In fact, in common law, you can sue for losses arising from a contract that has not been honoured or paid. I think that is important.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, Sen. Lesan’s document called Authority to Incur Expenditure (AIE) is not a valid payment document. It is not evidence at all to show that there is payment that has been made and is not valid, including people who give you “I Owe You” (IOU) or any of those documents. I think they are not valid and it is a crafty way by some of the counties to try and hoodwink or mislead the public that they have settled. That is not payment. The payment is made against valid invoices, contracts and Local Purchase Orders (LPOs) that are submitted after the works have been certified as having been completed.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I have responded to what the Senator for Kakamega had asked. I think to trigger the Treasury’s action, we need to either go through a resolution of the House or directly as the Senator, write to Treasury.

Lastly, regarding past debts as asked by Sen. Kagwe, if the debt has been contracted by a Ministry whose function has been transferred to a county government, then that Ministry still has the responsibility to clear that particular debt. However, for local governments or other institutions of the local authorities, these are subject to an audit that is pending which had been requested by Transition Authority (TA) so that the assets and liabilities of those authorities can be audited.

Unless a liability has been audited and approved, then it becomes difficult for county governments. That is why county governments have not taken over those liabilities. Again, it depends. Some county governments have paid those kind of liabilities where they find the services of those particular institutions are necessary. For example, if you have pending bills relating to Kenya Power from a local authority, there was no way they would allow you to continue as the county government until you clear the previous bills. So, it depends on the individual type of authority.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, there is no time limit on payment. Immediately a

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, thank you. I would like the Chairperson to clarify the usage of a document called Authority to Incur Expenditure (AIE) . This document has been issued by my county, for example, in the pretext of paying for services that have been rendered to the county. Recipients of these documents have gone from bank to bank with an AIE which was issued to them in the pretext that this is payment for services or money for projects.

I would like the Chairperson to clarify whether this document can be used to pay for services or goods that have been supplied to counties or even projects. It is because this has and continues to be done in some counties, particularly, by the County of Bomet.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I thank the Chairperson for that very good answer. Through you, could you alert the National Treasury that business people did not know that they are supposed to report to them that they are being owed money. Therefore, you cannot wait for those reports before you take action.

Could you confirm that the Treasury will act on the strength of the following reports:-

goods have been delivered and you have certified as having been received, then your payment is due. It also depends on the terms in the case of contracts. So, as long as the terms of contract have been met, your payment is due and you should be paid. If not, then, those other actions I have mentioned should be triggered.

Thank you. Very well. Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo, are you satisfied?

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. If you allow me, I still have the Business of the week in Statement No. (e) . I have been patiently waiting for it to be called out.

Proceed then.

Thank you Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I want to thank the Members for those valid interventions. I sympathize with the situation of the Senator for West Pokot for he has people becoming bankrupt and it is the same thing in Mandera County or any other county because of the delay.

What Treasury is suggesting is that we can take two actions. One is a situation where the Senate can, by resolution, direct Treasury to investigate and take appropriate action in view of the material breach of the financial regulations. There was a time we did that and I think that is one way we can attach the reports that the Senator for Kakamega County has mentioned; the Controller of Budgets pending Bills and the Auditor- General’s Report. That is one way of doing it.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the other one is where the Senator for West Pokot can forward these reports himself, as a Senator, to Treasury. He can forward the list of people who have not been paid and have completed the jobs that they have been contracted to do, or supplied services or goods but have not been paid. Based on that, on the basis of the response by the Treasury, they can take action because it is in breach of the Constitution. Treasury can now ask the Controller of Budget to investigate whether those payments are outstanding. Once they confirm, they can go ahead and stop funds being transferred to the county under Article 225 of the Constitution. I think that is long overdue and we need to do it.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the point the Senator asked again with regard to 4

funds that have been committed.

The funds are released to county governments by the Controller of Budget on the basis of requisitions that have been submitted. Those requisitions identify for what activities they want the money. So, the money will have been released to them and it is committed when it is in their operations accounts.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, therefore, it is clear that what is happening in counties is that when money has been released to them, based on requisition for a particular activity, they divert that money to some other unplanned for activity which may not have been budgeted for and for which requisition has not been made.

Consequently, when those other projects for which the funds were released are completed, there will be no money to pay them. I think that is what has happened and it is an illegality as per the Public Finance Management Act. That is why Treasury says you forward that list of debts to them so that they can take action.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, regarding Sen. Hassan’s point on reparation for losses, I think that can come through a legal action by the individual suppliers or contractors. In fact, in common law, you can sue for losses arising from a contract that has not been honoured or paid. I think that is important.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, Sen. Lesan’s document called Authority to Incur Expenditure (AIE) is not a valid payment document. It is not evidence at all to show that there is payment that has been made and is not valid, including people who give you “I Owe You” (IOU) or any of those documents. I think they are not valid and it is a crafty way by some of the counties to try and hoodwink or mislead the public that they have settled. That is not payment. The payment is made against valid invoices, contracts and Local Purchase Orders (LPOs) that are submitted after the works have been certified as having been completed.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I have responded to what the Senator for Kakamega had asked. I think to trigger the Treasury’s action, we need to either go through a resolution of the House or directly as the Senator, write to Treasury.

Lastly, regarding past debts as asked by Sen. Kagwe, if the debt has been contracted by a Ministry whose function has been transferred to a county government, then that Ministry still has the responsibility to clear that particular debt. However, for local governments or other institutions of the local authorities, these are subject to an audit that is pending which had been requested by Transition Authority (TA) so that the assets and liabilities of those authorities can be audited.

Unless a liability has been audited and approved, then it becomes difficult for county governments. That is why county governments have not taken over those liabilities. Again, it depends. Some county governments have paid those kind of liabilities where they find the services of those particular institutions are necessary. For example, if you have pending bills relating to Kenya Power from a local authority, there was no way they would allow you to continue as the county government until you clear the previous bills. So, it depends on the individual type of authority.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, there is no time limit on payment. Immediately a

goods have been delivered and you have certified as having been received, then your payment is due. It also depends on the terms in the case of contracts. So, as long as the terms of contract have been met, your payment is due and you should be paid. If not, then, those other actions I have mentioned should be triggered.

Thank you. Very well. Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo, are you satisfied?

Yes Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. If you allow me, I still have the Business of the week in Statement No. (e) . I have been patiently waiting for it to be called out.

Proceed then.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Hon. Senators, this is the Business for the week starting Tuesday 26th April, 2016 as follows:-.

On Tuesday at 12.00 p.m., there will be a meeting of the Rules and Business Committee (RBC) to schedule the Business of the week and, subject to the resolutions and decisions of that meeting, the following Bills will be considered.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I have been informed that His Excellency the President will assent to the Anti-Doping Bill tomorrow at 7.30 a.m. Therefore, I am a happy Kenyan and I am proud to have been part of this effort that has helped us pass this legislation.

Therefore, in the same spirit, I urge my colleague Senators to also keep in mind that we are running behind schedule on the Division of Revenue Bill. I know that it is on the next Order, but I hope that, again, in the same spirit, we should get it enacted, so that the important issue between sharing revenue between the national Government and county governments can be dispensed with.

Without much ado, I thank everyone and now lay this Statement on the Table of Senate.

Debate is open, but I see no interest in further contributions. I, therefore, call upon the Mover to reply.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to reply.

I humbly request that you defer the putting of the Question on this matter to the next sitting day, under Standing Order No. 54 (3) .

It is so ordered.

The Senate Majority Leader, I will call for Division on Order No.8 on Wednesday. So, make sure that your Whip works properly. For Order No.9, I call upon you to move.

Next Order!

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, as has been the tradition, I have requested the Chairperson of the Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget to move this Bill on behalf of the Senate Majority Leader.

Very well. That is quite in order.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to move the following Motion:- THAT, the Division of Revenue Bill (National Assembly Bill No.4 of 2016) be now read a Second Time. This is a very important Bill that provides for the equitable division of revenue raised nationally between the national Government and the county governments in the 2016/2017 Financial Year.

The object of this Bill, as clearly set out in it, is about the equitable sharing of revenue, which is the main principle that underpins devolution in this country. It also provides for two things; the equitable division of revenue raised nationally between the national Government and the county governments and conditional allocations to county governments, in accordance with Articles 202 and 187 of the Constitution.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the Bill originated in the National Assembly, where

House to our Committee which went through the Bill and obtained views and comments from other stakeholders through public participation. We also held public hearings and met the CoG and other stakeholders.

I want to draw the attention of Members to page 8 of our Committee’s Report on the Bill, which deals with observations and general recommendations that was tabled in this House last week. The total county allocations from the revenue raised nationally have been enhanced in this Bill from Kshs287 billion in 2015/2016 Financial Year to Kshs302 billion in the next Financial Year, 2016/2017. The proposed allocation translates to 32.3 per cent of the approved audited revenue of 2013/2014, which is the latest as required by Article 203 (2) of the Constitution.

After going through the Bill, we have a number of observations. I will quickly go through the observations that we have made. There have been various discussions and negotiations between the two levels of government on how much revenue should go to the county governments. This has been done at the level of Inter-governmental Budget and Economic Council (IBEC) and also the summit. The Committee has also looked at the explanatory notes in the memorandum which explains the allocations between the two levels of Government. I will come back to them later because they are critical.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the Committee also noted that as a principle it is essential to increase the revenue that goes to county governments. That is why the total equitable share has increased from Kshs259 billion in this current year to Kshs280 billion in the next financial year. This increase is important if, for no other reason than to appreciate that the cost of providing services by the county government goes up every year. Therefore, there is need to review and increase the amount of equitable share that goes to the county governments.

The Committee also notes that it is equally important for the county governments to appreciate the importance of oversight in ensuring prudent management of financial resources that are sent to the counties. Concerns have been raised that there is need to refocus on the ability of counties to collect their own revenues to complement transfers from the national Government. We have also observed that there is an urgent need to bring clarity to the administration and reporting of conditional grants. This has been the main area of concern. The governors have expressed concern that conditional grants which are channeled through the line ministries to the county governments invariably delay or may have been diverted in some cases, and consequently, affected the operation of the county governments.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, this matter has been discussed at various level of intergovernmental relations. The National Treasury has been mandated to come up with a framework dealing with the management of the conditional grants which may come from the national Government or donors. Therefore, it is important to have a framework for the disbursement of conditional grants to county governments that will ensure funds are disbursed immediately without delay for the purposes which they are meant.

The Committee also observed that the National Treasury seems to be experiencing challenges in the management of county issues in particular, with regard to

that are in serious material breach of financial regulations. Therefore, our Committee recommends that it is prudent for the National Treasury to consider establishing a dedicated unit within its structures that will deal with fiscal matters and all other matters relating to the county governments to ensure intergovernmental administration of fiscal issues.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we have also observed that questions have been raised regarding the basis on which the national interests under Article 203 has been determined because the national interests projects which are identified in the Bill only relate to the national Government projects. However, the Committee noted that national interests is not equivalent to the national Government’s priorities and that national interests must be determined by the two levels of Government based on agreed priorities. Therefore, going forward, what is classified as national interest should be defined through an intergovernmental consultation at Intergovernmental Budget and Economic Council (IBEC) with the approval of Senate, so that by the time it comes here, it does not create a problem as it has done.

The key page in this Bill is the schedule on page No.5 which is the allocation of revenue between the two levels of Government for the next financial year. The figures provided are very clear because under the national Government allocation, the total amount of sharable revenue is Kshs1.38 trillion. Out of that, it is proposed that Kshs302 billion, which is an equivalent of 32.3 per cent, be given to the county governments while Kshs1.099 trillion be given to the national Government. Part of that Kshs1.099 trillion to remain at the national Government includes monies that will be transferred as conditional grants to the county governments to cater for free maternity, health care, leasing of medical equipments, Level 5 hospitals, compensation for user fees, allocation from the fuel levy fund and the equalization fund. All these things are part of the Kshs1.099 trillion allocated to the national Government.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, out of the Kshs302 billion to be forwarded to the counties, Kshs280 billion is the equitable share. The balance of Kshs21.8 billion is the conditional share which includes the free maternity, health care, leasing of medical equipments, Level 5 hospitals, compensation for user fees and others which are listed on page No.5. Those are the actual figures that are proposed in terms of divisions between the two levels of Government. To arrive at that, there are workings on the memorandum to show how these figures were arrived at. I would like to draw the Member’s attention to the fact that the key item in determining how much money goes is the growth in revenue. The Committee noted that in arriving at the equitable share of revenue, the revenue growth factor of 7.8 per cent was used.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we are aware that the average revenue growth factor coupled with the growth in Gross Domestic Product (GDP), on a three years' average was coming to 10.2 per cent. However, concern has been expressed that the general collection of revenue has been very poor this financial year. In fact, as at December this year, the collection of revenue by the Exchequer was Kshs65 billion below the target for this financial year. This coupled with the fact there are huge borrowings has made it

increase from Kshs259 billion to Kshs280 billion as the total amount of sharable revenue.

The Committee also noted that on the matter of roads maintenance levy, there was lack of clarity on county roads due to the ongoing contestation of the definition and assignment of roads falling under the mandate of the national Government and county governments. It is important that the proposed Bill clarifies some of these issues as a matter of priority so that we do not have any more questions. The point being raised by the county governments is that under Class D, there is a large number of roads that have been transferred to the county governments. However, the issue is the cost of building Classes A, B or C roads is much higher than those of Class D. Therefore, the allocation that is given under the fuel levy fund will only take care of such roads. What is important is for the Roads Bill to be finalized so that clarity is made, once and for all, with regards to the structure of funding in this sector.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we also noted that when you look at the Bill on the Statutory Allocations to Constituency Development Fund (CDF), women affirmative action fund and other funds, the Committee noted that the funds have been deducted from the gross ordinary revenue instead of the national Government share of revenue. Therefore, we have advised the National Treasury on page No.12 of the memorandum although it does not form part of the Bill ultimately. Therefore, we are not going to propose amendments.

We have advised the National Treasury to adjust so that, in future, we do not have a situation, as indicated on page 12, on the evaluation of the Bill, funds like the Constituencies Development Fund (CDF) and Women Action Fund in item eight. They ought to be deducted. They need to come out of the national Government share.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, questions have been raised by the county governments over delays in the transfer of approved funds, including the conditional allocations. The National Treasury, even in a statement that I read earlier, has reiterated that the delays are, in fact, caused by delays in county governments submitting their requisitions or county governments not utilizing funds that have already been credited to their revenue fund accounts in the Central Bank of Kenya (CBK). This explains the point raised earlier by the National Treasury in a statement. On average, there is up to Kshs30 billion in the accounts of county governments. This is the reason.

We recommend that pursuant to Article 219 of the Constitution, the National Treasury should ensure that counties’ share of revenue is transferred to them without undue delay and deduction whatsoever, particularly with regards to conditional grants. As I mentioned earlier, I reiterate that it is our determination that the National Treasury should develop a framework for conditional grants to ensure that there are no delays in transfers of those funds to the counties.

The Committee also observed that the National Treasury will provide more resources to five counties. There is an agreed framework between the five counties and the National Treasury for construction of county headquarters. These five counties did not inherit offices to accommodate the county headquarters. They include Isiolo, Lamu,

construction of the headquarters be funded at a cost of Kshs518 million for the assembly and the executive. The national Government will contribute 70 per cent of this budget and the county government will contribute 30 per cent. Therefore, we support this agreement which will be done outside the Bill. However, we have urged the National Treasury to consider an allocation to other deserving counties in successive financial years. There are many other counties that do not have suitable offices even as I speak.

The Committee also acknowledged that there is a credit facility that the World Bank proposes to extend to support both the national and county governments on capacity building, in particular with regard to public financial management and civic education. However, the Committee has expressed concern because we feel that money, about Kshs1.4 billion, is a huge amount of money to be spent merely on capacity building. We find it important that the World Bank and other donors should be channeling funds in the counties towards development.

We have seen in a report discussed here yesterday, the United Nations Development Programme (UNDP) giving up to Kshs73 million to build capacity of the Council of Governors (CoG) yet the same institution is getting Kshs265 million for the same purpose from the National Treasury and also Kshs1 billion from the county governments. It is important that donors appreciate that any funding given to the county governments should as much as possible be channeled towards development projects. Concerns have been raised, legitimately so that these funds for capacity building are often spent in hotels and conferences yet these are credits that Kenyans ultimately have to pay.

Lastly, we also observed with a lot of concern, the prevailing condition of pending bills in counties arising out of poor fiscal management and budget implementation by the county governments. We are of the view that the county governments should ascertain and clear these pending bills as a matter of urgency to avoid financial crisis in subsequent years. We recommend that this be looked into within the Intergovernmental Fiscal Framework which includes the CoG, the Commission on Revenue Allocation (CRA), the National Treasury, the Intergovernmental Budget and Economic Council (IBEC), county assemblies, the Senate and other institutions.

Further to the statement that I read earlier on, it is important to state very clearly that county governments have no reason to incur debt beyond a particular financial year. Before the end of that financial year, they would have received all the monies which they have budgeted for. So, they should fund all their commitments from allocations. So, any county government in breach of that and creating outstanding or pending bills for two or three years---. Clearly, that is a serious breach of financial regulations and, therefore, the National Treasury can take action under Article 225 of the Constitution.

Therefore, our recommendation is as follows:- “We propose that the county equitable share of Kshs280,300,000,000 and the conditional allocation of Kshs21,897,516,719 bringing the total county allocation for the Financial Year 2016/2017 to Kshs302,197,516,719 as contained in the Division of Revenue Bill (National Assembly No.4 of 2016) be adopted by this House.”

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we, as a Committee, recommend that we adopt this

In Section 5 of the Bill, if the actual revenue raised nationally in a fiscal year falls short of the expected revenue set out in the schedule, the shortfall shall be borne by the national Government to the extent of the threshold prescribed in regulations by the Cabinet Secretary. This year, for instance, already as at December, the shortfall is up to Kshs65 billion. The shortfall will go up to even Kshs100 billion by June this year. The national Government will have to bear that from their share of revenue. That cannot be passed on as per the provisions of this proposed Bill. It should not be passed on to the county governments.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, similarly in the unlikely event that the national Government raises more revenue than is proposed or anticipated in this Bill, the excess accrues to the national Government, but they have to use it specifically to reduce borrowing or paying debts of its share of revenues as part of its share of revenue raised nationally. Then, of course, Clause 6 as always is the case in this Division of Revenue Bill cautions against rushing if there is any dispute regarding any provision of this Act, division of revenue matter or allocation. Before approaching a court to resolve such dispute, every effort should be made to settle the dispute with the concerned State organ. The Intergovernmental Technical Committee provides for alternative mechanisms to resolve disputes. If they do not, then Clause 6(2) and (3) provide for penalties against those institutions. That is the main part of the Bill.

On page seven is the memorandum which explains allocations to the national Government and the county governments. It provides explanation on what those items mean. For instance, on the conditional grants on page nine, it explains what conditional grants in support of free maternity healthcare of Kshs4.1 billion mean. It means money to be transferred to the county governments on reimbursement basis through a respective county revenue fund upon confirmation that the county government has provided maternal healthcare service. That is an important point that people always miss, especially the counties. They have to provide the service then they get reimbursed. That is the concept.

There is the leasing of medical equipment. This is explained. It has been there before. We are giving Level 5 hospitals support because they serve a number of regions. Then, of course, we have compensation and also foregone user fees. All of them are explained. The one on development has been there before, but again, the amount has reduced. Last year, conditional allocations relating to the loans and grants received from development partners was Kshs10.7 billion. This year it is Khs3.8 billion.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, some of the donor financed projects have been completed. They were included in the previous financial year and the current financial year, but have since been wound up. That is why the amount is low.

On page 11, there is the evaluation of the Bill against Article 203 which is a requirement. The Members can look at how the provisions of Article 203 have been complied with. This is especially in regard to the national interest. The national interest is explained clearly on page 13.

It must be critical to the achievement of the country’s economic development and

anchored in Vision 2030 and medium term plan and the resource investment. Therefore, those are the general details on the memorandum. The Members can look at them.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, on page 16, as required by law, the Bill must set out in the memorandum the variation between the amount proposed in the Bill and the recommendations of the Commission of Revenue Authority(CRA). I encourage the Members that we pass this Bill because it provides additional funding to the county governments. It is also important that we pass it because of the time. They need to do the county allocation of revenue in time so that the county governments can also budget on

I reiterate that it is important that the county governments appreciate that it is not about the Senate, but allocating money or resources to the county governments. Parliament has a duty through the Senate to ensure that there is oversight over the use of the resources. This is a major problem that every county is experiencing. The reports by the Controller of Budget and Auditor-General show misuse of resources. An example is the Council of Governors’ Conference. The conference is supposed to be about devolution. The stakeholders in devolution include national Government, Parliament and all other institutions, but regrettably the way it has been designed is like devolution belongs to counties only. This is the reason Senators have not attended. Counties have also become dens of corruption. Over nine governors are under investigation by the Ethics and Anti-Corruption Commission (EACC).

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, nearly 15 people have been transported from Mandera County to attend the conference in Meru. They have carried vegetables and fruits that have been purportedly grown in Mandera County. In the social media, there are pictures of the three watermelons that have been transported all the way from Mandera at a high cost. It was under exhibition that, that it is what is grown in Mandera County.

I do not think the people of Mandera and Meru counties need to see how watermelons look like. I do not also think that there is need to demonstrate to the rest of the country that Mandera County grows watermelons. The people of Mandera need to be convinced that their money is being spent well. That is what is more important than the exhibition. Therefore, we end up spending millions of shillings and a lot of time, among other resources, trying to demonstrate to the country that we are doing well. This is the point about devolution that our governors miss.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, it is about Public Relations (PR). They seem to be focusing on the PR aspect and going out of their way to showcase how they are the best. It is unfortunate. When Kenyans are lacking water and drugs in hospitals, the governors are spending millions in conferences to show people that devolution is working. What is important is to show the residents that the county government is delivering on devolution.

With those many remarks, I request the Senator for Kakamega County to second.

Before the Senator responds,

ask the President why he is looking for thieves amongst governors only. He should also go for the thieves in his Government. They are there. He should go for them, including some of them who even deputize for him.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I notice that we will spend Kshs433.8 billion paying public debt. It is a good thing because we must pay our debts. However, hon. Senators, are we satisfied that we are spending all that money on public debt? Debt that comes and we do not know on what that money is spent. Yes, my brothers and sisters on the Government side, you can say: “Huuh,” because the projects are there. Recently you saw the President went to Kiambu County and unveiled a road of Kshs1.4 billion and a new maternity wing in Gatundu hospital of Kshs800 million. Yes, that is where the public debt money goes. How about us? This is the House of equity. You help us, we do not feel nice. A road that was started by President Kibaki from Kisumu to Kakamega, Webuye and all the way to Kitale is not complete, seven years later. When the President comes to the place, he says in Swahili: “Tumetenga pesa. Tutafanya.” When he goes to his place, he launches the new road. You then want me to come and cheer, be it in Afraha Stadium when they are misadvised to conduct blasphemy of the Holy Spirit---

Order, Senator! Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, sorry I am orderly for now. One can laugh at me for these things, especially a member of the public who has never been in my part of the world. However, let me remind you, you who is laughing at me for saying that we are feeling pain for no projects being seen in our place; let me remind you of the story of Correta King who was the wife of Martin Luther King Jnr. During the famous Mississippi walk, a white friend who used to go to the same church with Correta King asked her: “Why are you people walking?” Correta King told them: “You need to be black to know why we are marching.” In the same vein, those of you who are laughing

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I support the Bill whole heartedly. Secondly, let me assure the Kakamega Senator that, first, there are projects in every part for this country.

Secondly, we are not laughing at him at all because he is only currently in the

together in Government. How we would love that!

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the first thing that we noticed in this Bill has to do with the deterioration of collection of money that the Chairperson spoke about. That is why when we, as a Committee, sat we supported the notion of not increasing the money because we realised that the Government is walking on a tight rope. We appreciate that. However, the desperation that the KRA is going through must not create the circumstance that its boss pronounced yesterday, where he even wants to go to people’s homes and banks and so on. There is a limit to what we want to do. We should not interfere with privacy the way we want to do in order for us to collect money. Money has been collected before.

It is a question of two things. One, it has to do with the confidence that we should give Kenyans that when money is collected from them, it is used for the right purposes and people will pay taxes. The second one has to do with making sure that we collect the taxes that are there. We must also engage in better utilisation of the same funds. When the President spoke in Naivasha, he said that he wants the Government to finish the projects that it has started. There is nothing worse than hearing that projects are being started and then you drive around the same areas where new projects are being started, and old projects are unfinished. I wish Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale was here because the hospital that he was talking about in Gatundu has been incomplete since Mzee Jomo Kenyatta was the President of this Republic. For President Uhuru to go and finish it was long overdue. In fact, he should have done it the first month that he became President. However, we are happy that he has completed that project.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, when you travel around the country, you will see many projects that are halfway done. If you go to Karatina as you go to Nyeri, you will notice a huge market that is only halfway finished and yet many other projects and other markets are being built elsewhere. I am happy to report that I got a message from the Cabinet Secretary (CS) concerned, that we will be relaunching the completion of the market in the next two weeks. However, there are several unfinished projects. Worse still, there are complete markets, hospitals and schools that are currently not being used. This is because for some odd reason, they have not been handed over to the users, county governments or other institutions that they have been built for.

It is not enough, therefore, that we allocate moneies and not ensure that they reach the end users. The fact that money was allocated in one year as given, for example, for the laptops, we must be careful about this issue of allocation. The budget, as we read it, is not in itself a transfer of money. It is important for us to understand if money is allocated to Parliament, it does not mean that that quantity of money has been transferred to the Parliament budget or Parliament account in the bank. Money is not transferred until it is effectively done so. So, when you allocate Kshs17 billion for laptops and you do not spend it, it simply means that the money was not spent. It does not mean that money was allocated and then taken elsewhere.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I have said on the Floor of this House and I repeat, that we must start a method by which we can make use of private capital for

Government do incur, you will find that a lot of it is for buildings. There is no reason we should be spending money in construction of buildings. We have a lot of private people, who can put up those buildings and incur capital, and we can lease those buildings from them; whether it is a direct lease or Build, Operate and Transfer (BOT), we do not need ourselves as a Government to engage as if we are a construction company. That is something that can be done.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, if we dig into that bucket of money, it means we can spend money on services that we, as a country, need. That is how it should be. I honestly fail to understand, for example, why so far, even when I was in the Ninth Parliament, we were still discussing the possibility of private roads in Kenya. To date, 53 years later, not one private road has been done in Kenya. When you travel to Singapore, Thailand or any of the Asian Tigers, including China, you will find plenty of private roads that have been done thus saving the Government from spending that capital.

There are other countries that have given private organizations the management of roads. Once built, it is managed by private sector so that they can be kept in good state. We must leave the beaten truck. If we walk on the same path every day, you can be 100 per cent certain that you will only reach the same destination. If we sit here every year, allocating the same funds with the same ideas, we can only arrive at exactly where we arrived last year. Last year, we did not arrive at a newly industrialised nation. Therefore, it is unlikely that this year, we are going to arrive there either. We need to infuse new ideas so that our county governments and the national Government can begin to see a difference.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for instance, regarding the management of Level 5 hospitals, if you look at the conditional grants in this Bill, you will see that five of the conditional grants have something to do with medicine. It may be maternal healthcare, Level 5 hospitals and so on, but they all have something to do with healthcare. Yet, year in, year out, we complain about how bad those hospitals are being managed, be it Nyeri General Hospital, Kakamega General Hospital, Embu General Hospital or the others. It is time for us to infuse new ideas.

The Nyeri County Government has advertised for a manager for professional management to start managing Nyeri General Hospital. We cannot continue doing the same thing. The kind of manager we are looking for is the sort of person who has managed a multi-national corporation like Shell, a huge company like Brookside or Unilever. These are the kind of people we need to manage the hospital.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, doctors will stay looking after patients. It makes no sense in our hospitals to have a surgeon manage a hospital. Instead of being busy saving lives, we force him to deal with the everyday issues of supply of paper and ink. Supply of paper and ink can be done by many other people, but very few people can save lives in surgery. So, it calls for new thinking and new ideas on how to do things. All Level 5 hospitals should be managed by professional managers who can manage, not only the patient issues, but also administrative issues as well as the change that must come where money collected in those hospitals should not be sent to the county governments first and

Order! That, I come there and cheer and say, “Mr. President---”

What usually happens is that the money collected in the hospitals, once sent to the county governments finds other uses and only a small percentage of it is sent back to the hospitals. Money collected in hospital should be managed at the hospital. So, we would like to see a change in the structure of the health management in our country.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I would also urge, even though it is not here, that at least five per cent of money spent in our counties be in technology. If we want to increase the money that is generated from the counties, then we must make use of technology. Counties, for example, that have infused collection of money through technology are reporting higher uptakes of revenue within the county. In the long run, counties will not depend on what the Government can give them.

We foresee situations where counties such as Turkana, once the oil sector has been developed, may one day contribute money to the national Government instead of the other way round. The only way that can come to pass is if we infuse the use of technology in our counties, especially in revenue collection and fighting corruption. It is only technology that can save us.It is not a panacea of the war against corruption, but it is a good contributor to that process.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I want to mention about the nursery schools which is a pet subject of this Senate. Originally in the Bill, we had some recommendation from the County Revenue Allocation (CRA) that money should be allocated from the national Government to manage polytechnics. Then we said that it is a function that has already been devolved to the county governments. Therefore, the county governments must allocate that money from their own funds. It must be a priority in the county governments. If you want to prove as a county government that you can take care and manage your county, can you manage what has been allocated to the county in schedule four effectively that we wish that the county be given other responsibilities?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, this is the only way that we can be convinced that indeed, Level 5 hospitals and other institutions should have been allocated to the counties.

Finally, I want to congratulate the First Lady, Her Excellency Margaret Kenyatta, because of the effort that she continues to make day in, day out, running in marathons, calling on private people, calling on companies so that they can assist her in her project of ensuring that no mother dies at child birth. That is a commendable effort. If we had another few people doing exactly the same thing, we would ensure that our mothers are never committed to death because of the fact that they give birth to life. It is from birth that an individual in this country is safe, not only later when we are looking for police officers to guard them, but they should be safe from birth. Mothers are special people and we must make sure that we protect them.

With those few remarks, I beg to support.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I support the Bill whole heartedly. Secondly, let me assure the Kakamega Senator that, first, there are projects in every part for this country.

Secondly, we are not laughing at him at all because he is only currently in the

together in Government. How we would love that!

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the first thing that we noticed in this Bill has to do with the deterioration of collection of money that the Chairperson spoke about. That is why when we, as a Committee, sat we supported the notion of not increasing the money because we realised that the Government is walking on a tight rope. We appreciate that. However, the desperation that the KRA is going through must not create the circumstance that its boss pronounced yesterday, where he even wants to go to people’s homes and banks and so on. There is a limit to what we want to do. We should not interfere with privacy the way we want to do in order for us to collect money. Money has been collected before.

It is a question of two things. One, it has to do with the confidence that we should give Kenyans that when money is collected from them, it is used for the right purposes and people will pay taxes. The second one has to do with making sure that we collect the taxes that are there. We must also engage in better utilisation of the same funds. When the President spoke in Naivasha, he said that he wants the Government to finish the projects that it has started. There is nothing worse than hearing that projects are being started and then you drive around the same areas where new projects are being started, and old projects are unfinished. I wish Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale was here because the hospital that he was talking about in Gatundu has been incomplete since Mzee Jomo Kenyatta was the President of this Republic. For President Uhuru to go and finish it was long overdue. In fact, he should have done it the first month that he became President. However, we are happy that he has completed that project.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, when you travel around the country, you will see many projects that are halfway done. If you go to Karatina as you go to Nyeri, you will notice a huge market that is only halfway finished and yet many other projects and other markets are being built elsewhere. I am happy to report that I got a message from the Cabinet Secretary (CS) concerned, that we will be relaunching the completion of the market in the next two weeks. However, there are several unfinished projects. Worse still, there are complete markets, hospitals and schools that are currently not being used. This is because for some odd reason, they have not been handed over to the users, county governments or other institutions that they have been built for.

It is not enough, therefore, that we allocate moneies and not ensure that they reach the end users. The fact that money was allocated in one year as given, for example, for the laptops, we must be careful about this issue of allocation. The budget, as we read it, is not in itself a transfer of money. It is important for us to understand if money is allocated to Parliament, it does not mean that that quantity of money has been transferred to the Parliament budget or Parliament account in the bank. Money is not transferred until it is effectively done so. So, when you allocate Kshs17 billion for laptops and you do not spend it, it simply means that the money was not spent. It does not mean that money was allocated and then taken elsewhere.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I have said on the Floor of this House and I repeat, that we must start a method by which we can make use of private capital for

Government do incur, you will find that a lot of it is for buildings. There is no reason we should be spending money in construction of buildings. We have a lot of private people, who can put up those buildings and incur capital, and we can lease those buildings from them; whether it is a direct lease or Build, Operate and Transfer (BOT), we do not need ourselves as a Government to engage as if we are a construction company. That is something that can be done.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, if we dig into that bucket of money, it means we can spend money on services that we, as a country, need. That is how it should be. I honestly fail to understand, for example, why so far, even when I was in the Ninth Parliament, we were still discussing the possibility of private roads in Kenya. To date, 53 years later, not one private road has been done in Kenya. When you travel to Singapore, Thailand or any of the Asian Tigers, including China, you will find plenty of private roads that have been done thus saving the Government from spending that capital.

There are other countries that have given private organizations the management of roads. Once built, it is managed by private sector so that they can be kept in good state. We must leave the beaten truck. If we walk on the same path every day, you can be 100 per cent certain that you will only reach the same destination. If we sit here every year, allocating the same funds with the same ideas, we can only arrive at exactly where we arrived last year. Last year, we did not arrive at a newly industrialised nation. Therefore, it is unlikely that this year, we are going to arrive there either. We need to infuse new ideas so that our county governments and the national Government can begin to see a difference.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for instance, regarding the management of Level 5 hospitals, if you look at the conditional grants in this Bill, you will see that five of the conditional grants have something to do with medicine. It may be maternal healthcare, Level 5 hospitals and so on, but they all have something to do with healthcare. Yet, year in, year out, we complain about how bad those hospitals are being managed, be it Nyeri General Hospital, Kakamega General Hospital, Embu General Hospital or the others. It is time for us to infuse new ideas.

The Nyeri County Government has advertised for a manager for professional management to start managing Nyeri General Hospital. We cannot continue doing the same thing. The kind of manager we are looking for is the sort of person who has managed a multi-national corporation like Shell, a huge company like Brookside or Unilever. These are the kind of people we need to manage the hospital.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, doctors will stay looking after patients. It makes no sense in our hospitals to have a surgeon manage a hospital. Instead of being busy saving lives, we force him to deal with the everyday issues of supply of paper and ink. Supply of paper and ink can be done by many other people, but very few people can save lives in surgery. So, it calls for new thinking and new ideas on how to do things. All Level 5 hospitals should be managed by professional managers who can manage, not only the patient issues, but also administrative issues as well as the change that must come where money collected in those hospitals should not be sent to the county governments first and

What usually happens is that the money collected in the hospitals, once sent to the county governments finds other uses and only a small percentage of it is sent back to the hospitals. Money collected in hospital should be managed at the hospital. So, we would like to see a change in the structure of the health management in our country.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I would also urge, even though it is not here, that at least five per cent of money spent in our counties be in technology. If we want to increase the money that is generated from the counties, then we must make use of technology. Counties, for example, that have infused collection of money through technology are reporting higher uptakes of revenue within the county. In the long run, counties will not depend on what the Government can give them.

We foresee situations where counties such as Turkana, once the oil sector has been developed, may one day contribute money to the national Government instead of the other way round. The only way that can come to pass is if we infuse the use of technology in our counties, especially in revenue collection and fighting corruption. It is only technology that can save us.It is not a panacea of the war against corruption, but it is a good contributor to that process.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I want to mention about the nursery schools which is a pet subject of this Senate. Originally in the Bill, we had some recommendation from the County Revenue Allocation (CRA) that money should be allocated from the national Government to manage polytechnics. Then we said that it is a function that has already been devolved to the county governments. Therefore, the county governments must allocate that money from their own funds. It must be a priority in the county governments. If you want to prove as a county government that you can take care and manage your county, can you manage what has been allocated to the county in schedule four effectively that we wish that the county be given other responsibilities?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, this is the only way that we can be convinced that indeed, Level 5 hospitals and other institutions should have been allocated to the counties.

Finally, I want to congratulate the First Lady, Her Excellency Margaret Kenyatta, because of the effort that she continues to make day in, day out, running in marathons, calling on private people, calling on companies so that they can assist her in her project of ensuring that no mother dies at child birth. That is a commendable effort. If we had another few people doing exactly the same thing, we would ensure that our mothers are never committed to death because of the fact that they give birth to life. It is from birth that an individual in this country is safe, not only later when we are looking for police officers to guard them, but they should be safe from birth. Mothers are special people and we must make sure that we protect them.

With those few remarks, I beg to support.

Hon. Senators, we want to dispose of this business today. We still have another three Senators willing to contribute.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I will take the shortest time that I can manage; not more than five minutes. I support the Division of Revenue Bill. The

governments are generated within the country. It is important that we congratulate and urge Kenyans, particularly those who pay Value Added Tax (VAT). These are honest businessmen who work hard to pay their fees. With the introduction of the ETR machines, many Kenyans who are in business have taken up this little gadget, which has enabled this country to collect significant revenues. Therefore, I want to use this opportunity to encourage and congratulate Kenyans who have taken on this noble duty of paying taxes, particularly as they consume the goods that are available in terms of paying VAT.

I also wish to congratulate and urge the KRA, which is charged with the responsibility of collecting revenue to be shared between the national Government and the county governments. Every loophole should be sealed in order to make sure that all the revenue that is collected by KRA reaches the consolidated kitty. This is the money that will be shared throughout the country. According to the Acts which have been put in place, if there will be any short-fall, it is right and correct that the national Government takes the shortfall and county governments get the due amounts that is required for the usage.

Lastly, we discussed about the leasing of medical equipment. There is no reason for any governor to refuse to take this equipment because funds have been set aside for the payment and the leasing of that equipment. Therefore, I urge every governor to follow the inter-governmental agreements which were reached when this equipment was purchased so that it can be placed within the reach of the populace of this country in order for them to benefit from its usage within the hospitals.

We can have enough revenue to be shared, but if we do not tame the beast called corruption in both the national Government and the county governments, all these efforts of collecting and dividing revenue will be in vain. I urge county governments, particularly my county government, which has completely lost the discipline of financial management in managing the funds, to manage the money that we take to the counties so that it can benefit those counties. My county government is in a self-destruction mode, going downhill. At the moment, the executive that is in place is almost unconstitutional and does not obey the one-third gender rule. The public service board is not functional because it has been starved of funds. Therefore, the management of the funds in the counties is of serious concern to this House. I cannot say it anymore than what has been shown.

As we discuss this afternoon, it is sad to hear that the county governments used millions of shillings to transport items to the conference in Meru. My county transported pumpkins. I am sure the cost of transporting the pumpkins is high. It was even wrong to transport that product; it should have transported the good tea which we need to market. It would have been a better product to take to the conference, even though it was wrong because the conference is not an exhibition; it should discuss issues.

Lastly, as we go into the end of the first five years of devolution, we should be absolutely careful and make sure that counties do not accumulate pending bills so that the next governments can continue to serve the county governments better.

do the same.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I will be brief. First, I want to support this Bill and thank the Committee for ensuring that for the first time, we did not go through a mediation process. The Chairman of the Commission on Revenue Allocation (CRA) said that the tax exemption of the Standard Gauge Railway (SGR) is one of the reasons we are not collecting enough revenue. It is important that we look at all the components of SGR. We have locomotives, scanners and facilities that are supposed to be imported. It is also important to look at their prices.

While the governors continue to build facilities, we need to know how we will deal with the human resource component because ethnicity is high in county governments. The nurses are being sent back to the national Government and their salaries held by the county governments. We, as the Senate, need to work on that and ensure cohesion in the counties.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, it is also important for us to question the revenue collection in the counties. We should ensure that local revenue is collected and used in a prudent manner. There are rich people who are not educated and, therefore, do not understand the Integrated Financial Management Information System (IFMIS) . They have decided to hold on to their money. It is up to the Government to come up with a system that can be used even by those who do not understand the IFMIS, so that it can collect more revenue.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, with those few remarks, I beg to support.

You have done well. Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo, I hope you can be brief like Sen. Elachi.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I rise to support this Bill. This is the fourth time that we are dealing with the Division of Revenue Bill. It is notable that every year there is an increase of funds for both levels of Government; the national Government and county governments. The national Government has budgeted for the Committee on Implementation of the Constitution (CIC) , whose term expired. We should not fund bodies that have wound up, like the Transition Authority (TA) .

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I have prominently seen the women affirmative action fund and CDF, which I thought should have disappeared. They have emerged as expenditure to be used by the national Government; no wonder our colleagues have been fighting oversight.

It is interesting to note that my county is implementing projects even without passing the budget in the county assembly. They have started a tourist hotel costing over Kshs500 million. Is there any Government in this world that is in the business of building hotels? I wonder whether the National Treasury and Government budgeting procedures have been given to the county assemblies. Every county has started implementing their projects now and there is no line item.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, this is the last year that we are doing some real work; next year is a political year. We have to ensure that the money meant for development of counties is put on hold, so that we only allow recurrent funds rather than

mentioned. The governors are using the funds meant for development in the pretence of development to acquire money for next year’s politics. We have to think of a way of coming up with a clause in the Bill to stop the money by September this year.

I beg to support.

Hon. Senators, it is now 6.30 p.m. It is time to adjourn the Senate. Therefore, the Senate stands adjourned until Tuesday, 26th April, 2016 at 2.30 p.m.

The Senate rose at 6.30 p.m.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I thank you for this opportunity. I rise to support this Bill because it marks an important step in the journey that this country has travelled. For the third year, we are witnessing the sharing of revenue between the national Government and county governments. The issue of devolution which is the centre piece of our Constitution is a testament of what Kenyans did in 2010 to radically shift and transform our mode of governance to one where as much as we seek a united and prosperous country, we also want an equal society.

For that reason, I feel honoured and privileged to be part of this historic exercise. Allow me to make two more points due to constraints of time. I thank my colleagues because they have cooperated. I do not want to be the one to go against what we have agreed.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the issue of corruption has been highlighted. We must find a way of slaying the dragon of corruption that is denying the citizens of these

there is more corruption at the national Government level is not good. I can only urge the National Assembly that oversights the national Government to up their game and increase their vigilance on national government agencies. For us in the Senate, our mandate is on the counties and we are not going to spare anybody.

I have received numerous complaints from my own county about ghost projects, theft and plunder. I hope that now that the County Public Accounts and Investments Committee (CPAIC) has almost finished scrutinizing the reports of the Auditor-General of 2014/2015. I hope that going forward, we will see more action this year. If we send one, two, five or more governors to jail before 2017, for theft and plunder of public resources, it will be a lesson to the rest. It will be a lesson to the rest that when one is appointed to public office, it is not a ticket to loot. To underscore how important this matter is, in Nigeria, half of the first set of governors had to be jailed for their successors to learn that too much power must be accompanied with too much responsibility.

I beg to support this Bill.

I now call upon the Mover to reply.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I take this opportunity to thank all the Members who have contributed to this Bill and those who have expressed their support. This is an important Bill that reflects that the Senate has consistently ensured that revenues to county governments have been enhanced, on yearly basis, to ensure that the counties have adequate resources to deliver services. I, therefore, thank all the Members for their contribution.

I beg to move and request the Chair to defer putting of the Question to a later date.

I defer the putting of the Question to next week, Tuesday, 26th April 2016.

Hon. Senators, it is now 6.30 p.m. It is time to adjourn the Senate. Therefore, the Senate stands adjourned until Tuesday, 26th April, 2016 at 2.30 p.m.

The Senate rose at 6.30 p.m.