Thursday, 19th September, 2024

Clerk, do we have quorum?

Serjeant-at-Arms, kindly ring the Quorum Bell for 10 minutes.

Okay. We now have quorum. Clerk, you can now read out the first Order. Next Order.

Hon. Senators, pursuant to Standing Order No.232 (1) (a) , I hereby present to the Senate that a Petition has been submitted---

Order, Senators! I repeat, pursuant to Standing Orders No. 232 (1) (a) , I hereby present to the Senate that a Petition has been submitted to the Clerk by Mr. Charles Ochola Osango on behalf of other citizens of the Republic of Kenya and residents of Nairobi, seeking the introduction of the Hospitality Professionals Bill, 2023.

As we are aware, under Article 119 (1) of the Constitution, and I quote: - “Every person has the right to petition Parliament to consider any matter within its authority, including to enact, amend or repeal any legislation”.

The salient issues raised in the said Petition are as follows. You can find your way in, Sen. Wakili Sigei.

It is your choice, Sen. Tobiko.

No, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Next Order.

Senate Majority Leader, proceed.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to lay the following Papers on the Table of the Senate today, Thursday, the 19th of September,

Thank you. Let us go to the next Order.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. This is on the abduction and disappearance of the Kitengela Three.

I rise Pursuant to Standing Order No. 53 (1) , to seek a Statement from the Standing Committee on Justice, Legal Affairs and Human Rights regarding the abduction and suspected forced disappearance of Jamil Longton, his brother, Aslam Longton and activist Bob Micheni Njagi, who were abducted on the 19th August, 2024, in Kitengela, Kajiado County.

In the Statement, the Committee should-

Not at the moment, later.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Request for a Statement on cases of reported killings of residents of Bombaba Ward, Kenyanya Sub-county, Kisii County.

I rise pursuant to Standing Order No. 53 (1) , to seek a Statement from the Standing Committee on National Security, Defence and Foreign Relations regarding the alarming cases of reported murders of residents in Bombaba Ward, Kenyanya Sub-county, Kisii County.

In the Statement, the Committee should-

Sen. Okenyuri---

Allow me to just mention that.

Sen. Okenyuri, you know you are deliberately doing a mistake.

Sen. Agnes Kavindu, proceed.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I have two Statements.

First is Statement on Early Childhood Development and Education (ECDE) in Machakos County.

I rise pursuant to Standing Order No. 53 (1) to seek a Statement from the Standing Committee on Education regarding the status of ECDE in Machakos County.

In the Statement, the Committee should-

Next is Sen. Jackson Mandago.

Thank you, very much, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I have two Statements. I request that you allow me to read them.

Next is Senator Mohammed Sheikh Abass.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.53 (1) to seek a Statement from the Standing Committee on Labour and Social Welfare regarding the unpaid allowances for Wajir County Government Lands Tribunal Committee and the Municipality Board members.

The Lands Tribunal Committee was appointed on 18th September, 2020 by the County Secretary in a term of three years, while the County Municipality Board members were appointed on 15th February, 2019 through a Gazette Notice No.1157 by the county governor for five years.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the failure of the county government to pay the Lands Tribunal and the municipality board members sets a dangerous precedent that undermines the value of public service.

the Statement, the Committee should:-

Are you through with the Statement?

Let me just expound on it.

No, you will appear before the Committee to explain all those other details.

Next is Sen. Omtatah.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.53 (1) to seek a Statement from the Standing Committee on Education regarding the extortion of parents through illegal demands for fees for remedial classes in schools.

In the Statement, the Committee should:-

Senator from Busia, thank you very much.

It is governors and Members of County Assembly (MCAs) who belong to counties. Those are the village people. We are the national leaders.

Thank you.

Next is the Senator from Marsabit County.

Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.53 (1) to seek a Statement from the Standing Committee on Labour and Social Welfare regarding non-payment of gratuity by Marsabit County Government to Ms. Fatuma Nur Ibrahim.

Ms. Fatuma Nur Ibrahim was appointed on contract as the Chief Officer (CO) in the Department of Education, Skills Development, Youth and Sports by Marsabit County Government, on 6th December, 2017, for a contract period of five years.

On 22nd October, 2019, she was transferred to the Department of Administration and Coordination, and in 2020, she was further moved to the Department of Lands, Energy and Urban Development. She continued to serve as the CO and on 4th February, 2022, she resigned from her position, but she has not been paid her gratuity to date.

In the Statement, the Committee should-

Sen. Mumma, you have the Floor.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.53 (1) ---

Point of order!

Sen. Catherine Mumma, just a minute. What is your point of order, Sen. Onyonka?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to request that you send one of the Clerks-at-the-Table to go and stop the noise that is interfering with the discussions.

That will be done shortly. Proceed, Sen. Mumma.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.53 (1) to request a Statement from the Standing Committee on Justice, Legal Affairs and Human Rights regarding the urgent and concerning the issue of alleged defilement and incestuous

impregnation of a minor from Kigoto Village in Suba South Sub County in Homa Bay County.

The child victim was 13 years old at the time she was defiled allegedly by her paternal uncle in December 2021. The case was reported in March 2022 when it was discovered that the child was pregnant. The child’s mother later filed a case at the magistrate’s court in Mbita and it was almost due for judgment but was halted and has had to be started afresh.

The accused has been granted bail and allowed to return to the community in which the minor and her child would ordinarily be residents. His subsequent conduct is in contravention of normal terms of bail, particularly as he is reportedly pressuring the minor and potential witnesses to halt the case, with the minor’s mother being the recipient of threats emanating from her in-laws.

It is imperative given the sensitive nature of issues and the power dynamics involved to assess the legality and fairness of the decision to grant bail to the accused as well as its impact on the pursuit of justice for the minor and whether it is in the best interest of the minor.

In the Statement, the Committee should-

Next is Sen. Eddy Oketch.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.53 (1) to seek a Statement from the Standing Committee on Health regarding the plight of Community Health Promoters (CHPs) and previously Community Health Volunteers (CHVs) in Migori County.

In the Statement, the Committee should-

I will allow about 30 minutes for Members to make brief comments.

That is Statement under Standing Order No.57 (1) .

Okay, proceed.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, pursuant to Standing Order No.57 (1) , I hereby present the business of the Senate for the week commencing Tuesday, 24th September, 2024. I take this opportunity to welcome hon. Senators back from recess.

From today’s Order Paper, it is evident that as we begin Part IV of the Third Session, we have a full in-tray. I, therefore, continue to implore hon. Senators to prioritise their presence in the Chamber, so as to ensure that the business before us is dispensed with in a timely manner. I urge the various standing committees to hasten their consideration of business pending before them and table the reports as required.

With respect to the business before the Senate, the status of the legislative business is as follows. We have 60 Bills that are pending conclusion in the Senate, of which 48 are at the Second Reading stage, while 12 are at the Committee of the Whole stage.

We have 22 Motions pending conclusion; 21 Petitions are due for reporting by the respective standing committees and 387 Statements are pending before our various standing committees.

On Tuesday, 24th September, 2024, the Senate Business Committee (SBC) will meet to consider the business for the week. The tentative business for Tuesday will include businesses that will not have been concluded in today’s Order Paper, as well as businesses indicated in the Notice Paper, which is appended to our Order Paper today.

The tentative business for Wednesday, 25th September, 2024, Morning Sitting, will include the Schedule of Questions to Cabinet Secretaries as approved by the SBC.

The summary of questions is as follows – There will be Question No.41 to the Cabinet Secretary for Public Service Performance by Sen. Mungatana, Question No.91 to the Cabinet Secretary for ASAL and East African Community and Regional Development by Sen. Julius Murgor, Question

No.32 to the Cabinet Secretary for Tourism and Wildlife by Sen. David Wakoli and finally Question No.89 to the Cabinet Secretary for Tourism and Wildlife by Sen. Julius Murgor.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the business for Wednesday 25th September, 2024 afternoon sittings will include business not concluded in the Order Paper for Tuesday 24th September, 2024 and the following business Bills that are the Second Reading stage –

The Local Content Bill (Senate Bill No.50 of 2023), The Co-Operative Societies (Amendment) Bill (Senate Bills No.53 of 2023), The Early Childhood Education (Amendment) Bill (Senate Bills No.54 of 2023), The County Oversight and Accountability Bill (Senate Bills No.3 of 2024), The County Civic Education Bill(Senate Bills No.4 of 2024), The County Statistics Bill (Senate Bills No.5 of 2024), The Provisions of Sanitary Towels Bill(Senate Bills No.7 of 2024) and The Statutory Instruments (Amendment) Bill (Senate Bills No.10 of 2024).

These Bills are in the Committee of the Whole stage. I plead with colleagues to avail themselves next week for a speedy conclusion of the same, include but not limited to The Gambling Control Bill (National Assembly Bills No.70 of 2023), The Tea (Amendment) Bill (Senate Bills No.1 of 2023), The Maternal, Newborn and Child Health Bill (Senate Bills No.17 of 2023), The Meteorology Bill ( Senate Bills No.45 of 2023), The National Construction Authority (Amendment) Bill (National Assembly Bills No.59 of 2022), The Cancer Prevention and Control Bill ( Amendment) (No.2) Bill ( National Assembly Bills No.45 of 2022) and The Houses of Parliament (Bicameral Relations) Bill.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I hope our Committee on Justice, Legal Affairs and Human Rights, has concluded on the request that was made by colleague Senators on a re- edit of that Bill, taking into consideration all the concerns that were raised by Members as they made their presentations during Second Reading stage.

The Public Finance Management (Amendment) Bill (Senate Bills No.40. of 2023), The Nuts and Oil Development Bill (Senate Bills No.47 of 2023), The Public Transport (Motorcycle Regulations) (Senate Bills No.38 of 2023), The Street Vendors Protection Livelihood Bill, (Senate Bill No. 41 of 2023) and The Fire and Rescue Services Professional Bill (Senate Bills No.55 of 2023).

There are various Motions that are present before us and many of which, I humbly plead that we also prioritise and move with business in a speedy manner so as to address these Motions. Number one is –

The report on the County Public Investment and Special Funds Committee (CPIC) on its consideration of audit reports for the various water services companies for the Financial Year 2018/2019, 2019/2020, and 2020/2021.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, you will struggle to find in this country a county that does not have struggles with these water companies. All of them have serious audit and institutional challenges arising from the reports of the CPIC. We can address those challenges and, as a House, find solutions.

There is a report of the Standing Committee on Energy on inquiry into the Liquefied Petroleum Gas (LPG) explosion in the Mradi area of Embakasi and Nairobi County. There is a Motion on the development of a policy and law for social risk management on infrastructure development projects in Kenya.

There is a projected business for Thursday 26th September, 2024, which will include business not concluded in the Order Paper for Tuesday 24th, September and any other business scheduled by the SBC.

At the meeting of the Committee held on Tuesday,17th September, 2024 the SBC approved the schedule of Statements by Committee chairpersons, pursuant to Standing Order No.56 (1)(b). The first three Standing Committees that will be scheduled to issue their reports in the Order Paper on Tuesday, 24th September are as follows, and I hope the chairpersons can take note -

The Chairperson for the Committee on Agriculture, Livestock and Fisheries, who I had seen in the House, we expect a report. Chairperson for devolution and intergovernmental relations, I know he is in the House. They will be coming up on Tuesday and the Chairperson for the Committee on Education. I have not seen the chairperson, but I know the Vice-Chairperson is here.

Before concluding, allow me to say something. Ordinarily, we do not speak a lot on issues that happen outside the precints of this House. However, when they are of a nature that appear to impede or interfere with our work here in the Senate, then sometimes we are duty bound to respond.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have been made aware that on a television (TV) show last night, there is a gentleman who made very disparaging remarks against the person of the Senate Majority Leader. Ordinarily, I do not respond to this kind of matters because as a public servant, I know people can say things about us that sometimes either are unfounded, and if you make it your business, then it might be the only thing that you do.

I am deeply troubled that on a live television show, people who are either clout chasing or bait clicking Kenyans can tarnish your name and speak untruths about you. These are things that I have absolutely no idea of and go on to speak at length about the person of Aaron Cheruiyot.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for the record, I do not know Mr. Adani as alleged by that particular person. I have never met that individual.

Point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

What is your point of order, Sen. Sifuna? Sen. Sifuna. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise Pursuant to Standing Order No.52. I did not mean to interrupt the Majority Leader, but the Standing Orders require that he should bring a personal statement under Standing Order No.52 and explain these matters. To do it in this particular order is a violation of the House rules. There is nothing that stops him from bringing a personal statement and explaining himself the way that he was doing.

You know, he requested to speak because there is a matter which happened last night. I was trying to listen to what is it that he must say before the Floor of this House. Nonetheless, you interrupted before I listen to him in order to give guidance.

I wanted to give guidance to him after I listened because I was not privy---

Hon. Senators, you cannot guide the Chair on what to do. I did not have the advantage of listening to that gentleman last night. I was trying to get what he said about the Majority Leader. Let us get what he said.

Thank you, Senate Majority Leader. Use Standing Order No.58 to bring your Personal Statement. Since a Personal Statement is never debated, even what he has said should not be debated.

The Senate Minority Leader (Sen. Madzayo): Asante Bw. Naibu Spika. Kwanza, ni jambo la kusikitisha ikiwa utatoa taarifa ambayo haina ushahidi wowote kutumia jina la mtu mwengine ambaye hakupewa taarifa yoyote.

Kama ingewezekana, pia yeye angeitwa kwa televisheni wakajibizana ili ijulikane nani ni mkweli au muongo. Lakini si vizuri kuchukua upande mmoja kutoa taarifa ya kushambulia upande mwengine. Watu wengine na wengi wetu tuliopo hapa kama ndugu yangu, Sen. Kinyua, ni mtu aliyetengeneza jina lake kule Laikipia kwa miaka mingi mpaka sasa amekuwa Seneta.

Bw. Naibu Spika, pia wewe kule Meru, umetengeneza jina lako kamili, kwa hiyo itakuwa ni makosa mtu akitaja jina lako kwa ubaya bila wewe kupewa nafasi ya kujibu. Naungana na ndugu yangu, Sen. Cheruiyot, kwamba kuharibiana majina si haki.

Onyo iende kwa wanahabari. Si vizuri kuchukua upande mmoja kulaumu upande mwengine. Tunakemea vikali kitendo hicho cha kuchafua majina ya watu. Si vizuri kuharibiana majina hususan kwa wanahabari wanaosambaza habari. Kwa mfano, Sen. Chute anajulikana sana katika Taifa la Kenya. Itakuwa si jambo zuri ajulikane kwa njia mbaya katika umri wake. Taarifa hiyo itakuwa imemharibia maisha yake yote.

Sen. Madzayo, Sen. Tobiko aliomba utoe taarifa kidogo kwa ile---

The Senate Minority Leader (Sen. Madzayo) :

Ndio, naenda huko. Nilikuwa

Asante Bw. Naibu Spika. Kwanza, ni jambo la kusikitisha ikiwa utatoa taarifa ambayo haina ushahidi wowote kutumia jina la mtu mwengine ambaye hakupewa taarifa yoyote.Kama ingewezekana, pia yeye angeitwa kwa televisheni wakajibizana ili ijulikane nani ni mkweli au muongo. Lakini si vizuri kuchukua upande mmoja kutoa taarifa ya kushambulia upande mwengine. Watu wengine na wengi wetu tuliopo hapa kama ndugu yangu, Sen. Kinyua, ni mtu aliyetengeneza jina lake kule Laikipia kwa miaka mingi mpaka sasa amekuwa Seneta.Bw. Naibu Spika, pia wewe kule Meru, umetengeneza jina lako kamili, kwa hiyo itakuwa ni makosa mtu akitaja jina lako kwa ubaya bila wewe kupewa nafasi ya kujibu. Naungana na ndugu yangu, Sen. Cheruiyot, kwamba kuharibiana majina si haki.Onyo iende kwa wanahabari. Si vizuri kuchukua upande mmoja kulaumu upande mwengine. Tunakemea vikali kitendo hicho cha kuchafua majina ya watu. Si vizuri kuharibiana majina hususan kwa wanahabari wanaosambaza habari. Kwa mfano, Sen. Chute anajulikana sana katika Taifa la Kenya. Itakuwa si jambo zuri ajulikane kwa njia mbaya katika umri wake. Taarifa hiyo itakuwa imemharibia maisha yake yote.

Tumpatie Kiongozi wa walio Wachache dakika moja amalizie.

The Senate Minority Leader (Sen. Madzayo) : Jambo la kusikitisha zaidi, watoto wa kiislamu wanashikwa kila uchao na baadaye hawapatikani, ama wapatikane wamekufa ama wasiachiliwe. Tunataka jambo hili likome. Polisi wakishika mtu, wampeleke kortini na kumshataki ili afungwe kisheria. Wakifanya hivyo, jamii yake itaamua kama itamuwekea mawakili ama itamsaidia namna gani ili arudi nyumbani.

Asante Bw. Naibu Spika.

Asante. Sen. Cherarkey, proceed.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I always shudder in fear, especially when the police allegedly abduct individuals. I do not find any reason the police should blur their numbers or wear unmarked uniforms or do not have registration numbers. I said it yesterday that I have been a victim on several occasions, especially on ‘Kamata Kamata’ Fridays. I remember one instance where I was sleeping alone when I was arrested. It is by God’s grace that--- They tracked me from Kibos in Kisumu County all the way to my palatial home in Mosoriot in Nandi County. I was arrested alone naked.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. On issues of enforced disappearance, before the President, His Excellency Dr. William Samoei Ruto became President, he said that no more people will be found dead in River Yala. We have now found people dead in Quarry.

The worst that can happen to a Kenyan is to disappear, and then your family makes an application for habeas corpus, it goes to the court, and then the court is not given the person whether dead or alive and that becomes the end of that family. That means the

family will never know where their kins are. That is in the department of the Executive, particularly the National Police Service.

I urge the Acting Inspector General of the National Police Service because he is aware it. If he wants to get away with this because he has been convicted by the court, then he should produce the bodies or the persons alive. He will then purge the contempt and everything will go well. The moment you are contemptuous before a Judge, you can only go back to that judge. The only way to purge the contempt is to comply with the court order.

I am pleading with the Inspector General of the National Police Service, whom I know is a Christian, even if he has been forced by other forces, let him make sure these children are delivered, either dead or alive. It is an absurdity for the current Government if these children are never going to be seen. We have more disappearances coming up.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is illegal, unconstitutional and it puts the Government of Kenya, locally and internationally in a bad corner on human rights. We have a very good constitution as a country, which if we adhere to, all Kenyans will be happy and no family will suffer because their dear one has disappeared.

Sen. John Kinyua.

Asante Bw. Naibu wa Spika, kwa kunipa fursa hii. Kwanza, kulingana na ripoti iliyoletwa na Seneta Tobiko kuhusu watu kutekwa nyara, ningetaka kusema ya kwamba, Mkuu wa Polisi, Douglas Kanja, ameteuliwa rasmi. Anapaswa atokee kimasomaso ili aweze kupambana na haya mambo na aweze kuyakomesha.

Hii ni kwa sababu, kuna sheria zinapaswa kufuatwa. Kama mtu ametenda kosa, ashikwe, apelekwe kortini na ahukumiwe. Hakuna kosa ambalo haliwezi kupewa adhabu yake. Tunapoongea hapa, mwakilishi wa Wadi ya Dela hajulikani alipo. Kwa sababu sasa tuko na askari mkuu aliyeteuliwa kirasmi, ana majukumu ambayo anapaswa awe akiangalia.

Bw. Naibu wa Spika, si hiyo tu, Taarifa ililetwa na Seneta Okenyuri ya watu kuuwawa kiholela. Kazi kuu ya Serikali ni kulinda mali na maisha ya wananchi. Itakua ni jambo la kuvunja moyo sana ikiwa watu wanauliwa kiholela na familia zao zinaendelea kusononeka na hawapati jawabu ya yale mambo wanayoulizia.

Vile vile, kuna Taarifa iliyoletwa na Seneta wa kutoka Uasin Gishu, kuhusu KCC. Wakulima wanaendelea kusononeka wakiuliza watapata malipo yao lini, ilhali wanaendelea kupeleka maziwa yao kule KCC. Ukitembea kule Nyahururu, kila wakati, asubuhi na mapema, watu wanapeleka maziwa yao KCC. Lakini, wakati wa kupata malipo yao, inakua ni mchongoma.

The next is Sen. Maanzo.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. On issues of enforced disappearance, before the President, His Excellency Dr. William Samoei Ruto became President, he said that no more people will be found dead in River Yala. We have now found people dead in Quarry.

The worst that can happen to a Kenyan is to disappear, and then your family makes an application for habeas corpus, it goes to the court, and then the court is not given the person whether dead or alive and that becomes the end of that family. That means the

family will never know where their kins are. That is in the department of the Executive, particularly the National Police Service.

I urge the Acting Inspector General of the National Police Service because he is aware it. If he wants to get away with this because he has been convicted by the court, then he should produce the bodies or the persons alive. He will then purge the contempt and everything will go well. The moment you are contemptuous before a Judge, you can only go back to that judge. The only way to purge the contempt is to comply with the court order.

I am pleading with the Inspector General of the National Police Service, whom I know is a Christian, even if he has been forced by other forces, let him make sure these children are delivered, either dead or alive. It is an absurdity for the current Government if these children are never going to be seen. We have more disappearances coming up.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is illegal, unconstitutional and it puts the Government of Kenya, locally and internationally in a bad corner on human rights. We have a very good constitution as a country, which if we adhere to, all Kenyans will be happy and no family will suffer because their dear one has disappeared.

Sen. John Kinyua.

Asante Bw. Naibu wa Spika, kwa kunipa fursa hii. Kwanza, kulingana na ripoti iliyoletwa na Seneta Tobiko kuhusu watu kutekwa nyara, ningetaka kusema ya kwamba, Mkuu wa Polisi, Douglas Kanja, ameteuliwa rasmi. Anapaswa atokee kimasomaso ili aweze kupambana na haya mambo na aweze kuyakomesha.

Hii ni kwa sababu, kuna sheria zinapaswa kufuatwa. Kama mtu ametenda kosa, ashikwe, apelekwe kortini na ahukumiwe. Hakuna kosa ambalo haliwezi kupewa adhabu yake. Tunapoongea hapa, mwakilishi wa Wadi ya Dela hajulikani alipo. Kwa sababu sasa tuko na askari mkuu aliyeteuliwa kirasmi, ana majukumu ambayo anapaswa awe akiangalia.

Bw. Naibu wa Spika, si hiyo tu, Taarifa ililetwa na Seneta Okenyuri ya watu kuuwawa kiholela. Kazi kuu ya Serikali ni kulinda mali na maisha ya wananchi. Itakua ni jambo la kuvunja moyo sana ikiwa watu wanauliwa kiholela na familia zao zinaendelea kusononeka na hawapati jawabu ya yale mambo wanayoulizia.

Vile vile, kuna Taarifa iliyoletwa na Seneta wa kutoka Uasin Gishu, kuhusu KCC. Wakulima wanaendelea kusononeka wakiuliza watapata malipo yao lini, ilhali wanaendelea kupeleka maziwa yao kule KCC. Ukitembea kule Nyahururu, kila wakati, asubuhi na mapema, watu wanapeleka maziwa yao KCC. Lakini, wakati wa kupata malipo yao, inakua ni mchongoma.

Kindly, keep your eyes on the lights to avoid embarrassment.

Sen. Beatrice Akinyi Ogola.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise to condemn the defilement case of a young girl, who was 13 years then, that has been brought by my senior sister, Sen. Catherine Mumma, in Kigoto village. Homa Bay County is fighting the triple threat led by Governor, Hon. Gladys Wanga and all the women leaders. However, it is unfortunate that we have very pathetic numbers.

As I stand here, in 2023, we had over 8,000 young adolescents, between 10 and 19 years that were presented as pregnant. I support this Statement and I call for justice for the young girl and the young family.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I also condemn the abductions and disappearances that have been brought forward by the Nominated Senator, Sen. Peris Tobiko. It points to us that we have a system that is so fearful of its citizens. Why should we have people disappearing in this country and they cannot be traced?

What is appalling in these cases, as my colleagues have said, is that the Government was firm about disappearances we had in the other years, but it is unfortunate that the scene only changed from a river in Yala to other points like the quarry we had---

Sen. Sigei Wakili.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise to comment and also condemn the position that has been played out in the Statement by Sen. Tobiko as well as Sen. Catherine Mumma. The two Statements are seeking the intervention of the Committee on Justice, Legal Affairs and Human Rights, especially with regard to the disappearance and the defilement of the young girl respectively.

As the Chairperson of this Committee, I commit to support and undertake appropriate investigations to make sure that the House is also given sufficient information, so that appropriate actions be ultimately taken so as to ensure that justice is served, both to the girl and to the family of the gentleman who disappeared.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I also support the two Statements. I thank you.

Sen. Sifuna Edwin.

At the end of the day, it is the responsibility of the Government to protect lives and limbs and every disappearance must be explained by none other than William Ruto.

I thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Considering we have rules in this House, I will request for the HANSARD in the next Sitting.

Order Members! When there is a dispute, that HANSARD can be produced.

Sen. Sifuna, you have been accused that your statement is bordering on some allegations.

Sen. Sifuna, the issue is that you mentioned- --

Let him read back what I said. I said, “his Government.” He is responsible for the killing of Kenyans.

Sen. Mariam Omar, proceed.

Listen, Hon. Senators, Sen. Sifuna, before the end of this sitting, the HANSARD should be produced before me.

Sen Onyonka, proceed.

Sen. Sifuna, restrain yourself from making a lot of noise.

Order, hon. Members! The MCA comes from Wajir County.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, I want to share with the suffering and the fears of the family of the Hon. Yusuf Ahmed, the MCA of Dela, who has been missing for the last seven days. The absence of their loved one is painful. Missing your most loved person without any communication is unfortunate. This country is going back to the days of the 1990s, where we came from. We thought we had moved forward.

Last time, the President promised us that there would be no extra-judicial killings or abductions. However, now we are seeing a funny trend.

The Acting Inspector General of Police is not responding to court summons. That is impunity of the highest order. This is why they can take people how they want—many people are missing in Kenya today.

Kenyans have the right to live. Every life is sacrosanct. People must be brought to court and must be listened to. I am not a lawyer, but the law states that everybody is innocent unless proven guilty.

Human beings are to err. If somebody is to err, there is a rule of law and a court. Take the person to the court, convict him or her. For six or seven days, where is the MCA? How can we explain this to the parents? How can we explain to his mother, who is old? She cannot understand –

Right now, we have the Junior Secondary school (JSS), which is not financed through NG-CDF. Many children are falling by the wayside because JSS fees are being charged, and we do not have NG-CDF funding JSS. We need to look for a modality of financing, even JSS because we lose many children at the JSS level.

The new funding model for financing higher education is not clear. Some people have been put in high clusters and will not achieve university and tertiary education.

Sen. Munyi Mundigi, proceed.

Asante, Bw. Naibu Spika. Naunga mkono Kauli ambayo imeletwa na Sen. Mandago kuhusu wakulima wa mifugo. Wakulima kutoka Kaunti ya Embu; Runyenjes na Manyatta ni wakulima wa mifugo. Wanafanya kazi ngumu lakini malipo imeleta shida. Pia wafanyikazi waliokuwa wakifanya kazi kwenye kampuni ya maziwa ya Kenya Cooperative Creameries (KCC) , miaka 30 iliyopita bado hawajalipwa.

Hivi sasa tunasikia Kenya Cooperative Creameries (KCC) inataka kuleta mambo mengine yakupeleka hiyo kampuni kwa watu. Ningeomba wale watakaoenda kufanya uchunguzi waangalie vizuri ndiposa wakulima wafaidike kwa sababu wameumia sana.

Nikimalizia, nataka kumjuza Seneta wa Nairobi kuwa tukiwa hapa kama Maseneta ni vyema tuwe na heshima kwa Serikali kwa sababu tuko kwa Serikali ya Muungano. Kama Seneta mzima hawezi kumheshimu Rais wa Kenya, nataka kumwambia Seneta wa Nairobi ya kwamba Rais sio Ruto. Anaitwa Rais William Samoei Ruto. Sio kumtaja jina tu. Ni sharti umheshimu kwa sababu hata wewe kesho unaweza kuwa rais.

Jana tulisikia hutambui hata Cabinet Secretary. Ni aibu kubwa sana. Kwa hivyo, Seneta wa Nairobi wewe ni rafiki yangu. Ni sharti uheshimu watu wengine kwa sababu wakati mwingine wewe ndiwe utakuwa pale juu. Kama hauna heshima, utaheshimiwa na nani, ndugu yangu? Shauri yako.

Hivyo basi, mheshimu Rais William Samoei Ruto. Next time, tutakutafutia cheo kikubwa uje kwa Serikali ya Muungano.

Asante, Bw. Naibu Spika.

Sen. Sifuna, are you forgetting that I gave you and Sen. Onyonka opportunity to speak consecutively?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, please protect me, I am losing time.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I would also have loved that you informed the House that I am the one who has come to remind you that I had evidence to table. I was very eager to do that and I did not want it to be forgotten.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, I want to share with the suffering and the fears of the family of the Hon. Yusuf Ahmed, the MCA of Dela, who has been missing for the last seven days. The absence of their loved one is painful. Missing your most loved person without any communication is unfortunate. This country is going back to the days of the 1990s, where we came from. We thought we had moved forward.

Last time, the President promised us that there would be no extra-judicial killings or abductions. However, now we are seeing a funny trend.

The Acting Inspector General of Police is not responding to court summons. That is impunity of the highest order. This is why they can take people how they want—many people are missing in Kenya today.

Kenyans have the right to live. Every life is sacrosanct. People must be brought to court and must be listened to. I am not a lawyer, but the law states that everybody is innocent unless proven guilty.

Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir because I was eager to table and I hereby to table a video recording.

Right now, we have the Junior Secondary school (JSS), which is not financed through NG-CDF. Many children are falling by the wayside because JSS fees are being charged, and we do not have NG-CDF funding JSS. We need to look for a modality of financing, even JSS because we lose many children at the JSS level.

The new funding model for financing higher education is not clear. Some people have been put in high clusters and will not achieve university and tertiary education.

So, Sen. Tobiko, your evidence will be reviewed to ascertain whether it meets the threshold of evidence. That will not be done right away because I can see your evidence is a video. We do not have the gadgets to do it now.

Hon. Senators, we are rearranging the Order Paper. Order numbers 8 to 14 are therefore deferred.

Let us go to Order No.15.

Asante, Bw. Naibu Spika. Naunga mkono Kauli ambayo imeletwa na Sen. Mandago kuhusu wakulima wa mifugo. Wakulima kutoka Kaunti ya Embu; Runyenjes na Manyatta ni wakulima wa mifugo. Wanafanya kazi ngumu lakini malipo imeleta shida. Pia wafanyikazi waliokuwa wakifanya kazi kwenye kampuni ya maziwa ya Kenya Cooperative Creameries (KCC) , miaka 30 iliyopita bado hawajalipwa.

Hivi sasa tunasikia Kenya Cooperative Creameries (KCC) inataka kuleta mambo mengine yakupeleka hiyo kampuni kwa watu. Ningeomba wale watakaoenda kufanya uchunguzi waangalie vizuri ndiposa wakulima wafaidike kwa sababu wameumia sana.

Nikimalizia, nataka kumjuza Seneta wa Nairobi kuwa tukiwa hapa kama Maseneta ni vyema tuwe na heshima kwa Serikali kwa sababu tuko kwa Serikali ya Muungano. Kama Seneta mzima hawezi kumheshimu Rais wa Kenya, nataka kumwambia Seneta wa Nairobi ya kwamba Rais sio Ruto. Anaitwa Rais William Samoei Ruto. Sio kumtaja jina tu. Ni sharti umheshimu kwa sababu hata wewe kesho unaweza kuwa rais.

Jana tulisikia hutambui hata Cabinet Secretary. Ni aibu kubwa sana. Kwa hivyo, Seneta wa Nairobi wewe ni rafiki yangu. Ni sharti uheshimu watu wengine kwa sababu wakati mwingine wewe ndiwe utakuwa pale juu. Kama hauna heshima, utaheshimiwa na nani, ndugu yangu? Shauri yako.

Hivyo basi, mheshimu Rais William Samoei Ruto. Next time, tutakutafutia cheo kikubwa uje kwa Serikali ya Muungano.

Asante, Bw. Naibu Spika.

Hon. Senators, the hour for Statements is over. As you may recall, at the morning sitting of the Senate held yesterday, Wednesday, 18th, September 2024, I directed Sen. Tobiko to substantiate utterances made in the course of her contribution on a supplementary question to the Cabinet Secretary for Roads and Transport.

The direction arose out of a point of Order by the Senator for Uasin Gishu County, Sen. Mandago pursuant to Standing Order No.105 (2) .

Standing Order 105 provides that:

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I would also have loved that you informed the House that I am the one who has come to remind you that I had evidence to table. I was very eager to do that and I did not want it to be forgotten.

Sen. Sen. Tobiko, you are out of Order.

Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir because I was eager to table and I hereby to table a video recording.

Proceed and table.

So, Sen. Tobiko, your evidence will be reviewed to ascertain whether it meets the threshold of evidence. That will not be done right away because I can see your evidence is a video. We do not have the gadgets to do it now.

Hon. Senators, we are rearranging the Order Paper. Order numbers 8 to 14 are therefore deferred.

Let us go to Order No.15.

(Bill deferred)

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I rise to support the National Disaster Risk Management Bill. As I add my voice to this, I want to particularly draw the attention of the House to what a national disaster is.

If you look at Page 3 of that Bill, they have explained that a disaster means a progressive or sudden widespread localized natural or human-caused occurrence that causes or threatens to cause death injury, or disease or a significant disruption of the life of a community.

As I support the Bill, I want to talk about disasters that nobody talks about. Nobody wants to pay attention to the challenges that the women of Kenya are going through. I want to get the attention of the public on matters Sexual and Gender Based Violence (GBV) because we continue to turn aside and ignore them. Even the Statements that have been read today have touched on several national disasters---

Sen. Orwoba, what you are speaking to is important but today’’s business is the National Disaster Risk Management Bill. If you want to place context, please, situate it in the Bill.

Order, hon. Members.

He said that they were ready to distribute over 250,000 seedlings-- -

Sen. Oketch and Sen. Okiya Omtatah, kindly, listen to the Senator in silence.

They were ready to distribute more than 250,000 seedlings that are ready to be planted. However, he said the sad part about it is, that people will take seedlings and just place them anyhow or plant them and not really take care of them. He is saddened

What is your point of order, Sen. Eddy?

Thank you. Sen. Orwoba.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I rise to support the National Disaster Risk Management Bill. As I add my voice to this, I want to particularly draw the attention of the House to what a national disaster is.

If you look at Page 3 of that Bill, they have explained that a disaster means a progressive or sudden widespread localized natural or human-caused occurrence that causes or threatens to cause death injury, or disease or a significant disruption of the life of a community.

As I support the Bill, I want to talk about disasters that nobody talks about. Nobody wants to pay attention to the challenges that the women of Kenya are going through. I want to get the attention of the public on matters Sexual and Gender Based Violence (GBV) because we continue to turn aside and ignore them. Even the Statements that have been read today have touched on several national disasters---

Sen. Orwoba, what you are speaking to is important but today’’s business is the National Disaster Risk Management Bill. If you want to place context, please, situate it in the Bill.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I stand guided. That is why I went back to look at what the Bill is defining as a disaster. I want to ask the proposer or those who are fronting this Bill--- I know that it has come from the National Assembly, to give clarity of the definition of a national disaster.

I do not think that all the regulations that we are putting here; the committees, the structures of the funds, how these resources should be placed, the resiliency plans and what we are supposed to do when we are managing the national disaster speak to all the disasters that we have. At what point will we as a community and country understand some of the things that are happening in this country?

In the same way we have spoken very passionately about the disappearances and the extra-judicial killings to the extent that they are causing death, injury or disease or a significant disruption of the life of the community, I also want to add here that when we are drawing these regulations or committees, we must also understand that disasters are not only limited to floods, fires or certain things as they have put in the definition.

A disaster also means that it is a progressive or a sudden widespread of localized natural or human-caused occurrences and the issue of SGBV---

Madam Temporary Speaker, I wish Sen. Cherarkey, who is being distracted by Sen. Mariam Omar, would listen because this is a very important point. The issue of SGBV and

Madam Temporary Speaker, it is not an opinion. I would like him to clarify whether the necessity of this Bill is because the NDOC has failed or not.

I have ruled you out of order. That is asking for an opinion.

Continue, Sen. M. Kajwang’.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I wish Sen. Eddie had challenged me to provide evidence. I would have tendered evidence that when there were floods in Nyakach, none other than a Member of this House flew in a military helicopter to go to the flooded areas with a few bags of maize, rice and beans. The cost of flying a military plane from Nairobi to Nyakach is higher than the goods and items they had sent there.

We can take away the bags of maize, beans and rice from these other arbitrary centres of power and put them in one agency that will be answerable to Parliament and audited by the Auditor-General, and whose CEOs and executives can appear before Parliament, unlike now where political brokers are the ones who are entrusted with disaster response measures.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I support.

Next is Sen. Cherarkey.

Madam Temporary Speaker, from the outset, this Bill is crucial in terms of many issues. You are aware that disaster management is---

Madam Temporary Speaker, I do not know why the amber light is on. I need your guidance.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I rise under Standing Order No.105. As you might have observed, I was very patient. I did not want to interfere with the thought process of my dear brother, Senator from Homa Bay, Sen. M. Kajwang’.

Madam Temporary Speaker, you have heard Sen. M. Kajwang’ arguing about the necessity of this Bill in places such as the Office of the President and other places that I do not want to mention because we are on the HANSARD. You have seen people trading items like beans and other foodstuff when a disaster occurs. That shows that there is inadequacy in terms of proper disaster response and coordination.

Could Sen. M. Kajwang’ help us to understand this as a statement of fact---

Sen. Eddie, what is your point of order?

One of the Funds that are normally misused are those for disaster response and management in the counties and even at the national level. For example, in Nandi County, in the Financial Year 2023/2024, according to the Report of the Auditor-General, the approved budget for disaster response and management was Kshs100 million.

The exchequer release that was made to the County Revenue Fund (CRF) before moving to the next financial year was Kshs50 million. However, when the auditors went to ask for financial statements to ascertain how Kshs50 million was spent, they could not trace how that money was used by Nandi County Executive.

I have been sitting in the County Public Accounts Committee (CPAC) for almost eight years now. One of the critical issues has been misuse and abuse of funds meant for disasters. For example, sometimes Persons with Disabilities (PWDs) are called to go to Nandi Show Ground. From that money, they are only given loaves of bread and blankets worth Kshs250 each. They get bread and soda which we could use to call zero diets when we were in school. As they are given, photos are taken to show that they are helping the vulnerable. We need a law to guide on the issue of disaster management.

As you know, disaster can come in many forms. There are traditional disasters that we know, such as droughts, floods, landslides, and school fires which have become predominant for the past few months. We continue to condole with families who have lost their loved ones, especially the Hillside Endarasha Academy incident where more than 21 children lost their lives.

There are a number of school dormitories and houses across the country that have been burnt because of what is happening. The biggest support system in terms of disaster response and management has been the Kenya Red Cross Society (KRCS).

I remember when we lost some children in Kiptuya Ward, we had to get young men, the famous Cheploch Gorge Divers. I am still surprised why neither the national Government nor Baringo County Government has not hired Cheploch Gorge Divers who always assist in retrieving bodies of people who have drowned in rivers especially during rainy seasons.

The other day, a television station aired a story where young men were crossing dangerous rivers because of rain, especially in Kapkangani Ward in Nandi County. The dynamism of disasters continues to evolve. As we pass this law, we need to define what a disaster is and how it should be handled.

The other day, Nandi County Executive carried out a massive human resource audit. The unfortunate thing is that after seven years, it is when the Governor has realised that there is a disaster of ghost workers.

We were shocked. There are a number of people close to him referred to as professional radio callers who praise and worship him on famous radio stations. There are also online bloggers and close family members who were on the payroll of Nandi County Government.

Even as we talk about spending of funds, the Ethics and Ant-Corruption Commission (EACC) should improve their networks, so that as we discuss about funds set aside for disaster management, the wage bill and development expenditure, we should agree that something is wrong in terms of management.

Please, explain instead of asking. You cannot give a point of order on an opinion. What do you want him to clarify?

Madam Temporary Speaker, it is not an opinion. I would like him to clarify whether the necessity of this Bill is because the NDOC has failed or not.

unfortunate that we lost those lives in May, 2018 when that unfortunate disaster happened in Nakuru County. These are challenges that we should learn from. I am happy there is a legal framework in terms of disaster management going into the future.

Additionally, even at that time, we lost more than 45 Kenyans. Schools and homes were destroyed. As a Committee that followed up on the implementation, the people of Solai Dam Tragedy up to today have nightmares. When they hear even a tyre burst, they always get scared. Therefore, as we pay them off, we should ensure we have counselling services.

Madam Temporary Speaker, when I had the opportunity of visiting Brazil with the Committee on National Security, Defence and Foreign Relations then, there was a case of Brumadinho, collapse of dam in the State of Minas Gerais, in Brazil. Apart from being impressed with other things in Brazil, I was impressed by the disaster preparedness of that country. Within 20 seconds, almost a hundred choppers had been mobilised after the collapse of Brumadinho Dam, where 270 people died in that Brumadinho Disaster.

When we visited Brazil two or three months down the line, we found the responders were still on the ground collecting every bone of anybody who lost their lives in Brumadinho. The way the response was organised was of master class. At that time, the state prosecutor of Brazil had already fined the owners of that sludge US dollars 7 billion and the owners were still in court.

The other day in the same incident of Brumadinho Dam collapse in the State of Minas Gerais in Brazil, the courts have also fined through the union, because the indirect contracted of that dam had not been compensated. They have even fined the same owners over US dollars 200 billion and yet the owners are still being prosecuted by the state prosecutor. That is when the rule of law is functional.

Apart from compensating families, the prosecutor has also pushed the owners of Brumadinho Dam to do environmental regeneration to ensure the environment is left better than it was before the destruction by the Brumadinho Dam. We have failed to do this in Solai Dam in Nakuru County.

I am happy with this national authority in terms of National Disaster Management Authority (NDMA). Through this Authority, we are able to ensure that anybody who is found out of criminal negligence is held liable. The Ad Hoc Committee of the Senate, and I do not know whether Sen. M. Kajwang’’ was part of it, found that the owners of Patel Dam or the Solai Dam were criminally liable.

I am happy although I hope the Attorney General will appeal that matter. We need to give harsher penalties, because we know there are many people who own ranches and dams that have not been certified. There is what we call the National Environmental Management Authority (NEMA) and we need to know their role.

We have the Kenya Water Towers Agency. What are they doing when they approve the building of small dams and ponds? What is their role? We know when we had heavy rains, most of the dams in the country were over flowing. However, what is the National Water Harvesting Authority doing, so that when these dams and ponds are over flowing with water, they might not affect the lives of people?

We saw another form of pandemic called COVID-19 pandemic. If you may recall, at the Senate Committee at that time, there were allegations that more than US dollars7.8

Madam Temporary Speaker, I wish Sen. Eddie had challenged me to provide evidence. I would have tendered evidence that when there were floods in Nyakach, none other than a Member of this House flew in a military helicopter to go to the flooded areas with a few bags of maize, rice and beans. The cost of flying a military plane from Nairobi to Nyakach is higher than the goods and items they had sent there.

We can take away the bags of maize, beans and rice from these other arbitrary centres of power and put them in one agency that will be answerable to Parliament and audited by the Auditor-General, and whose CEOs and executives can appear before Parliament, unlike now where political brokers are the ones who are entrusted with disaster response measures.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I support.

Next is Sen. Cherarkey.

giving the Council of Governors too. Can we put it as “Youth, Persons with Disability (PWD) and women?

I agree with Clause 27 that we need a national command centre. When we went to Brazil and visited Brasilia, the former president of that time---

On a point of information, Madam Temporary Speaker.

Sen. Cherarkey, do you want to be informed.

One of the Funds that are normally misused are those for disaster response and management in the counties and even at the national level. For example, in Nandi County, in the Financial Year 2023/2024, according to the Report of the Auditor-General, the approved budget for disaster response and management was Kshs100 million.

The exchequer release that was made to the County Revenue Fund (CRF) before moving to the next financial year was Kshs50 million. However, when the auditors went to ask for financial statements to ascertain how Kshs50 million was spent, they could not trace how that money was used by Nandi County Executive.

I have been sitting in the County Public Accounts Committee (CPAC) for almost eight years now. One of the critical issues has been misuse and abuse of funds meant for disasters. For example, sometimes Persons with Disabilities (PWDs) are called to go to Nandi Show Ground. From that money, they are only given loaves of bread and blankets worth Kshs250 each. They get bread and soda which we could use to call zero diets when we were in school. As they are given, photos are taken to show that they are helping the vulnerable. We need a law to guide on the issue of disaster management.

As you know, disaster can come in many forms. There are traditional disasters that we know, such as droughts, floods, landslides, and school fires which have become predominant for the past few months. We continue to condole with families who have lost their loved ones, especially the Hillside Endarasha Academy incident where more than 21 children lost their lives.

There are a number of school dormitories and houses across the country that have been burnt because of what is happening. The biggest support system in terms of disaster response and management has been the Kenya Red Cross Society (KRCS).

I remember when we lost some children in Kiptuya Ward, we had to get young men, the famous Cheploch Gorge Divers. I am still surprised why neither the national Government nor Baringo County Government has not hired Cheploch Gorge Divers who always assist in retrieving bodies of people who have drowned in rivers especially during rainy seasons.

The other day, a television station aired a story where young men were crossing dangerous rivers because of rain, especially in Kapkangani Ward in Nandi County. The dynamism of disasters continues to evolve. As we pass this law, we need to define what a disaster is and how it should be handled.

The other day, Nandi County Executive carried out a massive human resource audit. The unfortunate thing is that after seven years, it is when the Governor has realised that there is a disaster of ghost workers.

We were shocked. There are a number of people close to him referred to as professional radio callers who praise and worship him on famous radio stations. There are also online bloggers and close family members who were on the payroll of Nandi County Government.

Even as we talk about spending of funds, the Ethics and Ant-Corruption Commission (EACC) should improve their networks, so that as we discuss about funds set aside for disaster management, the wage bill and development expenditure, we should agree that something is wrong in terms of management.

Proceed, Sen. Cherarkey.

unfortunate that we lost those lives in May, 2018 when that unfortunate disaster happened in Nakuru County. These are challenges that we should learn from. I am happy there is a legal framework in terms of disaster management going into the future.

Additionally, even at that time, we lost more than 45 Kenyans. Schools and homes were destroyed. As a Committee that followed up on the implementation, the people of Solai Dam Tragedy up to today have nightmares. When they hear even a tyre burst, they always get scared. Therefore, as we pay them off, we should ensure we have counselling services.

Madam Temporary Speaker, when I had the opportunity of visiting Brazil with the Committee on National Security, Defence and Foreign Relations then, there was a case of Brumadinho, collapse of dam in the State of Minas Gerais, in Brazil. Apart from being impressed with other things in Brazil, I was impressed by the disaster preparedness of that country. Within 20 seconds, almost a hundred choppers had been mobilised after the collapse of Brumadinho Dam, where 270 people died in that Brumadinho Disaster.

When we visited Brazil two or three months down the line, we found the responders were still on the ground collecting every bone of anybody who lost their lives in Brumadinho. The way the response was organised was of master class. At that time, the state prosecutor of Brazil had already fined the owners of that sludge US dollars 7 billion and the owners were still in court.

The other day in the same incident of Brumadinho Dam collapse in the State of Minas Gerais in Brazil, the courts have also fined through the union, because the indirect contracted of that dam had not been compensated. They have even fined the same owners over US dollars 200 billion and yet the owners are still being prosecuted by the state prosecutor. That is when the rule of law is functional.

Apart from compensating families, the prosecutor has also pushed the owners of Brumadinho Dam to do environmental regeneration to ensure the environment is left better than it was before the destruction by the Brumadinho Dam. We have failed to do this in Solai Dam in Nakuru County.

I am happy with this national authority in terms of National Disaster Management Authority (NDMA). Through this Authority, we are able to ensure that anybody who is found out of criminal negligence is held liable. The Ad Hoc Committee of the Senate, and I do not know whether Sen. M. Kajwang’’ was part of it, found that the owners of Patel Dam or the Solai Dam were criminally liable.

I am happy although I hope the Attorney General will appeal that matter. We need to give harsher penalties, because we know there are many people who own ranches and dams that have not been certified. There is what we call the National Environmental Management Authority (NEMA) and we need to know their role.

We have the Kenya Water Towers Agency. What are they doing when they approve the building of small dams and ponds? What is their role? We know when we had heavy rains, most of the dams in the country were over flowing. However, what is the National Water Harvesting Authority doing, so that when these dams and ponds are over flowing with water, they might not affect the lives of people?

We saw another form of pandemic called COVID-19 pandemic. If you may recall, at the Senate Committee at that time, there were allegations that more than US dollars7.8

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I thank the colleagues who have taken time to speak to this Bill proposing various amendments, including the last one by Sen. Cherarkey that we should not legislate

ourselves out of work. I did not know that he loves his job that much. I now know what to do if I want people to concentrate. In the last few days, we have been speaking about presence in the House. Very soon, we will also introduce certain clauses which will make people sit here. They are likely to pass it and later on reflect back and ask who put it in law. Such things have happened in our Parliament.

I appreciate the thoughts that have gone to this Bill. I concur with many of the thoughts that there is a lot that can be done to improve and make this Bill better. I share in the very valid concerns that I spoke to in raising this Bill. This is a National Assembly Bill. I spoke off the disagreement with their proposal to create an entity without wounding up certain entities that do similar roles. This is because the overall idea and thinking of a Senate for so many years on disaster response has been lack of a proper coordination in this effort.

We have been quite clear as the Senate that when creating an entity such as this, you need an institution that will bring together all the players and stakeholders. This is to have a sort of a national command centre that will have representatives, say, from different stakeholders like the fire department and divers. If it is weather related disasters like floods or drought, they all coordinate mitigation measures sitting under one roof, under the command of a disaster response expert, who will give the mitigation measures as well as the response. The same can be replicated across all our 47 counties.

I thank colleagues who have spoken on this Bill. I hope that when the Committee returns its verdict on the proposed amendments, they will guide this House towards that direction. That is why I continue to plead with our chairpersons to do a decent job at the committee level. We do not have any other better mechanism in the legislative process. The most important part is the amendments. That is why in my time as the Senate Majority Leader, I strive never to disagree with committees because I know that they do a far more thorough job than we can do during debate and Committee of the Whole. This is because they go clause by clause, listen to stakeholders and interact with them and deeply internalize these Bills. I hope that the Committee that will consider this Bill will guide us in taking into consideration the concerns of colleague Senators in making this legislation better.

Madam Temporary Speaker, with those very many remarks, I beg to reply. In accordance to Standing Order No. 66 (1), I beg to request that you defer the putting of question on the Bill until a later date.

I thank you, Madam Speaker. (The Clerk-at-the-Table Consulted with the Temporary Speaker)

Hon. Members, I hereby defer the putting of the question on Order No. 15 to the next time when we have the quorum.

Next Order.

Sen. Cherarkey, do you want to be informed.

Yes, I do not mind. He looks informative today.

Sen. Cherarkey, your concerns are very well placed on the state of water service providers. The County Public Investments and Special Funds Committee that you were hoping will deal with that issue, had dealt with it in the previous session. We have done it very well and the report has been tabled in this House and debated. I know you are sometimes very busy with a lot of things. Perhaps, it has passed you and was not able to read, but it is in the House. You can perhaps to look for it and read all the reports on water service providers in the entire country. You will get very rich report on it.

Proceed, Sen. Cherarkey.

I do not look better with that information, but I will try to look for that report.

Madam Temporary Speaker, we went to the Brazil National Command Centre. When a disaster happens across Brazil, it takes 20 seconds to reach the National Command Centre. I hope we will borrow from the best practices as we form this Authority.

I am objecting Clause 31. Why are you giving a governor and county commissioner to co-chair? We know the fights we have been having between the national Government and county government. Can you make county commissioners be part of the membership of County Disaster Risk Management Committee? I will be proposing amendment to that.

On Clause 41 on appropriation of funds, why are we legislating ourselves out of Parliament? Senate Majority Leader, you should note that it says “The funds of the Authority shall consist of such monies as may be appropriated by the National Assembly.” We need to amend it to say “Parliament” because we participate in budget making process through the Division of Revenue Bill. Let us not legislate ourselves out of Parliament or close business before knowing.

I agree on the issue of appointment of the President that we need to have mobility because he is the Chief of the Kenya Defense Forces (KDF) . When they mobilize the resources through the KDF, the National Police Service Police, the Office of the Deputy President and the Ministry of Interior and National Administration, there is a way---I always find it funny when the Government officials fly in with choppers to give out beans and maize. Let us look for a better way to do it.

With those many remarks, I support this Bill. I thank you.

I cannot see any other requests. I therefore call upon the mover to reply.

Today, as I speak, most counties are yet to receive their allocations and the justification is that we have not passed the DORA and the CARA. We are aware these issues because we all live in Kenya.

While that is the case, the national Government continues to function, They are able to access their funds because the National Assembly passed the Appropriation Bill. They have amended and passed a further supplementary budget if I am not wrong although I could be wrong.

I hope we can set a mechanism through which we ensure that in all instances such as these, where for reasons beyond the control of Parliament, or parliamentary reasons, we did Kshs316 billion for two financial years, 2017/2018 and 2018/2019 after we haggled and fought with our colleagues from the National Assembly up to late October, without agreeing.

One of the delaying tactics that were used to bog down counties into submission was the fact that while the national Government was operational, many of them were grinding to a halt. In fact, it took the governors like the former Governor of Nairobi accompanying President Uhuru alongside other governors to some function who asked the former President to give them what was available. They did not care for our fight and castigated the Senate for holding out for long without appreciating the suffering.

Madam Temporary Speaker, such are the things you have to deal with when you are dealing with governors. It does not matter how nice the meal you are preparing is, if someone is greedy, they do not have the patience to wait. They will say, just serve it as it is, we think it is ready as has been prepared.

Article 202 needs fine-tuning where revenue raised nationally is divided equitably between counties and the national Government. How you divide, it needs to be a conversation and at what point you access those funds. If you ask me, it needs to be same between counties and the national Government.

This Bill proposes the following. Clause 1 of the Bill provides for the short Title. Clause 3 contains the provisions on objects and purposes of the Bill, which they have taken time to explain. Clause 4 prescribes allocation for the national Government and county governments from the revenue raised nationally, for the current financial year 2024/2025.

Clause 5 of the Bill outlines mechanisms for adjusting variations in revenues emanating from revenue performance during the financial year in which this Bill relates to.

The Schedule contains the schedule of revenue raised between the national Government and county governments for the financial year 2024/2025.

Madam Temporary Speaker, speaking of revenue raising measures, there was a report this week about county governments that have grown their own-source revenue. We must commend them because there are governors who are diligent in their work. When they do well, we must celebrate them. I saw Homa Bay, Nairobi City and other counties-- - I am not familiar with that list, but this is something we must discuss further.

When a county grows its own-source revenue, it is testament to the fact that the Governor is not dipping his or her hand into the county till at source. That is the reality. It is a fact of nature that many of our county governors have refused to digitize their revenue systems so that you have men and women who walk around in yellow and green coats in

our markets, collecting Kshs20 and Kshs50 from our mama mbogas and bodaboda operators. However, that money never makes its way to the county revenue tills.

We have a Bill before this House that will ensure we put systems in place that are tamper-proof. It was Sen. Cherarkey who once told us of a T-junction that some governors put in some of these systems, such that, even when you think that they have collected electronically, there is a leak somewhere. There is a tap you can open and it is accessible through a back channel.

That is why there is a Bill to ensure that you standardize digital collection of revenue at the county level, so that you grow your own-source revenue. Counties must also learn to make-do without having to rely solely on the exchequer. As much as it is not possible or feasible that a county can rely on own-source revenue, survive and meet its obligations, there needs a deliberate effort by our governors to grow their own-source revenue and find it as a means of running services in their counties.

Madam Temporary Speaker, in conclusion, I wish to state the DORA plays a crucial role in ensuring the distribution of financial resources between the national and county governments for promoting economic developments.

I urge hon. Senators, to consider and pass this Bill. I am also aware that the committee will be leading us through the amendment stage. I know the figure that has now been proposed is Kshs380 billion, but I hold a completely different view.

In my moving notes I have not dwelt deep on the figures, I will leave it to the committee Members to give us the justification on the figure they are proposing. We are alive to the fact that as a country, we are still in deep financial woes. Kenyans have told us that there are savings that can be made without making additional demands on taxation. I believe that is true.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I have spoken of the need to make sure that we run a leaner government so that we do not end up collecting and paying only a handful of civil servants at the expense of a million of other Kenyans who are jobless and hopeless.

With those remarks, I wish to move and request a Member of the committee, the Senator for Migori, Sen. Eddy Oketch, to second and do justice to this Bill by speaking more to it.

Sen. Eddy?

amendment of DORA, but that did not happen. The shocks now are not bigger than at that time.

Madam Temporary Speaker, as a matter of principle, the framers of the Constitution would have expressly indicated in the Constitution that in terms of a shortfall of revenue, then the national Government should bear the entire shortfall. The reason for that is that counties do not have the luxury to raising their resources by floating bonds or any other means of raising money like the national Government does.

Although the framers of the Constitution did not put this in the Constitution, there is the spirit in the Constitution, which technically could have made Parliament functus officio, that we should not touch the DORA by any means possible. This is found in Article 175 of the Constitution.

If you read Article 175 of the Constitution, it talks about the principles of devolved government. Article 175(b) says:

“County governments shall have reliable sources of revenue to enable them to govern and deliver services effectively.”

The thought is furthered in Article 203 of the Constitution, which I will also refer to. This is Article 203(1) (J). It says:

“The desirability of stable and predictable allocations of revenue” must be considered when equitable share and other financial laws come to do.”

Why am I referring to these two fundamental Articles? It is because despite recognizing that we are in hard financial times as the Senator for Kericho has indicated well; despite recognizing that we are facing some serious economic hardships as a country that have necessitated this conversation around fiscal consolidation, the money that was given to counties should remain as it was. I want to put it directly as such.

Yes, I support this Bill because there are some subsequent clauses and a number of figures that I will touch on. If you look critically at what the Bill is proposing, the number one issue that we need to address fast, the Senate Majority Leader will perhaps agree with some of my observations, which also reflect the observation of the committee.

The Bill under Clause 3 proposes that we delete Section 5 of DORA, which is being amended. Deleting Section 5 basically means that whenever we have shortfalls within this year, the National Treasury can choose to arbitrarily look at whatever figures they revise with regard to county governments without coming to Parliament.

If you read Article 94 of the Constitution, all legislative powers lie with Parliament. If we allow Clause 3 to pass on this Bill as is, it has two parts. Number one, it requires that in case of a shortfall in revenue, the national and county governments will bear the shortfall. That is the first faction of the clause. I will dispute this clause as a Member of the Committee and as a Senator for Migori County.

If we do not dispute that clause, then it would mean that at any given time when there is a shortfall, we do not have our hand in looking at that shortfall as Parliament, specifically as Senate.

Part (b) of that clause also proposes that the county governments bear no more than 15 per cent in case of that shortfall. This is dangerous. With that calculus, you can easily go ahead and deny counties so much money.

Senate Majority Leader, proceed.

Today, as I speak, most counties are yet to receive their allocations and the justification is that we have not passed the DORA and the CARA. We are aware these issues because we all live in Kenya.

While that is the case, the national Government continues to function, They are able to access their funds because the National Assembly passed the Appropriation Bill. They have amended and passed a further supplementary budget if I am not wrong although I could be wrong.

I hope we can set a mechanism through which we ensure that in all instances such as these, where for reasons beyond the control of Parliament, or parliamentary reasons, we did Kshs316 billion for two financial years, 2017/2018 and 2018/2019 after we haggled and fought with our colleagues from the National Assembly up to late October, without agreeing.

One of the delaying tactics that were used to bog down counties into submission was the fact that while the national Government was operational, many of them were grinding to a halt. In fact, it took the governors like the former Governor of Nairobi accompanying President Uhuru alongside other governors to some function who asked the former President to give them what was available. They did not care for our fight and castigated the Senate for holding out for long without appreciating the suffering.

Madam Temporary Speaker, such are the things you have to deal with when you are dealing with governors. It does not matter how nice the meal you are preparing is, if someone is greedy, they do not have the patience to wait. They will say, just serve it as it is, we think it is ready as has been prepared.

Article 202 needs fine-tuning where revenue raised nationally is divided equitably between counties and the national Government. How you divide, it needs to be a conversation and at what point you access those funds. If you ask me, it needs to be same between counties and the national Government.

This Bill proposes the following. Clause 1 of the Bill provides for the short Title. Clause 3 contains the provisions on objects and purposes of the Bill, which they have taken time to explain. Clause 4 prescribes allocation for the national Government and county governments from the revenue raised nationally, for the current financial year 2024/2025.

Clause 5 of the Bill outlines mechanisms for adjusting variations in revenues emanating from revenue performance during the financial year in which this Bill relates to.

The Schedule contains the schedule of revenue raised between the national Government and county governments for the financial year 2024/2025.

Madam Temporary Speaker, speaking of revenue raising measures, there was a report this week about county governments that have grown their own-source revenue. We must commend them because there are governors who are diligent in their work. When they do well, we must celebrate them. I saw Homa Bay, Nairobi City and other counties-- - I am not familiar with that list, but this is something we must discuss further.

When a county grows its own-source revenue, it is testament to the fact that the Governor is not dipping his or her hand into the county till at source. That is the reality. It is a fact of nature that many of our county governors have refused to digitize their revenue systems so that you have men and women who walk around in yellow and green coats in

our markets, collecting Kshs20 and Kshs50 from our mama mbogas and bodaboda operators. However, that money never makes its way to the county revenue tills.

We have a Bill before this House that will ensure we put systems in place that are tamper-proof. It was Sen. Cherarkey who once told us of a T-junction that some governors put in some of these systems, such that, even when you think that they have collected electronically, there is a leak somewhere. There is a tap you can open and it is accessible through a back channel.

That is why there is a Bill to ensure that you standardize digital collection of revenue at the county level, so that you grow your own-source revenue. Counties must also learn to make-do without having to rely solely on the exchequer. As much as it is not possible or feasible that a county can rely on own-source revenue, survive and meet its obligations, there needs a deliberate effort by our governors to grow their own-source revenue and find it as a means of running services in their counties.

Madam Temporary Speaker, in conclusion, I wish to state the DORA plays a crucial role in ensuring the distribution of financial resources between the national and county governments for promoting economic developments.

I urge hon. Senators, to consider and pass this Bill. I am also aware that the committee will be leading us through the amendment stage. I know the figure that has now been proposed is Kshs380 billion, but I hold a completely different view.

In my moving notes I have not dwelt deep on the figures, I will leave it to the committee Members to give us the justification on the figure they are proposing. We are alive to the fact that as a country, we are still in deep financial woes. Kenyans have told us that there are savings that can be made without making additional demands on taxation. I believe that is true.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I have spoken of the need to make sure that we run a leaner government so that we do not end up collecting and paying only a handful of civil servants at the expense of a million of other Kenyans who are jobless and hopeless.

With those remarks, I wish to move and request a Member of the committee, the Senator for Migori, Sen. Eddy Oketch, to second and do justice to this Bill by speaking more to it.

If you try in any way to remove a shilling out of the Kshs400 billion, you are touching on non-discretionary resources of counties which will not make it possible for the counties to do any operation.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, while we support the DORA amendment to the extent that it touches on the reduction of the total shareable revenue to Kshs2.631 trillion, we object to any reduction of the shareable amount to county governments. We also reject any addition of Clause 3.

I hope that the Senate will stand with us and be able to delete it completely from the Bill so that we can always allow for revision of any shortfall to be brought into this House for conversation.

With those many remarks, I support the Bill with the amendments that we have proposed in looking at the Schedule in Clause 4 on the total shareable revenue national Government share and county government share, and also deletion of Clause 3 of the Bill.

Thank you, Sen. Eddy.

What is your point of order, Sen. Maanzo?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, on a point of order, I would like to rise under Standing Order No. 41 on Quorum. This matter is so grave and important for every single county and it has to proceed when there is a full quorum of the House.

I have also applied it under the Standing Order No.39. The quorum should be 15 Members.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for this opportunity. I thank Members for running to our refuge immediately.

While I rise to oppose this amendment, I request that we proceed with the matters of the House. I agree that this is a very important Bill, in fact, for all of us, under Article

The principle that is being proposed is that we delete Section 5 of the existing DORA. Section 5 of the existing DORA says that in terms or in case of shortfall in national revenue, the national Government shall take the entire amount. However, what is being proposed in the current clause is that there needs to be a share between the national Government and county government.

This is a principle that we are rejecting as a committee and also personally because it will put us at a serious risk that, as a House, we will never participate in any conversations of DORA going forward in case of shortfall. I hope that Senator M. Kajwang’ is not confused. I am not addressing Sen. M. Kajwang’ directly.

In Clause 4, we, as a committee, feel strongly that the numbers that we must go with are that the total share of revenue must be revised downwards, so that we reduce the burden on Kenyans. The downward number we are proposing is Kshs2.6 trillion. This is in tandem with what the National Treasury had adjusted to. So, Kshs2.631 trillion is what we will propose.

Secondly, we believe that the national Government's share of that should be Kshs2.223 trillion. This means that in that schedule, we must maintain the county government’s share at Kshs400.1 billion.

I will justify why this is important as I finish the schedule. On the schedule also we propose that the equalisation fund remains at Kshs8 billion.

Now, for people such as my good friend, the Senator of Homa Bay, we are insisting on this Kshs400.1 billion simply because when we passed the DORA, financial year 2024/2025, we went through a mediation.

It was very difficult to make any adjustments downwards on this particular DORA conversation. This is because at the time we passed DORA, all the monies that we could argue about that were going to counties were non-discretionary amounts. The county governments would close literally if you take a shilling out of that Kshs400 billion.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for instance, when we went to mediation, there was no possible way of removing Kshs4 billion out of the housing levy deductions. These are statutory deductions that are going on in all counties and they must pay. So, if you touch that Kshs4 billion, you do not get any money that counties will rely on.

There was also Kshs3 billion into this Kshs 400.1 billion that was going to new National Social Security Fund enhanced contributions. Again, this is another statutory deduction that there is just no wiggle room around it.

The county governments were also committed to County Aggregation and Industrial Parks (CAIPs) with a tune of Kshs11.75 billion. Some contracts have already been signed and committed to by counties.

That means that even if you were to take the ongoing projects in the 18 counties and then reduce that amount by Kshs7.25 billion, you would still need over Kshs3.2 billion to help these counties go on.

There were also Community Health Promoters (CHPs) that we negotiated for Kshs3.235 billion that have to be paid in the counties. We also have the Collective Bargaining Agreement (CBA) implementation that took about Kshs5.8 billion. This notwithstanding the increment and adjustments of salaries based on inflation that is going on in the entire country that also the counties are subjected to.

Sen. Cherarkey, your time is up. Sen. M. Kajwang’, proceed.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I rise to oppose this amendment having had the privilege of getting an explanation from Sen. Oketch Gicheru, who is a Member of the Finance and Budget Committee. How I wish this House would have benefited from the report of the Finance and Budget Committee. We had a little bit of a heated exchange with the Senate Majority Leader not too long ago. I insisted and he informed me that the Finance and Budget Committee intends to retain the Kshs401 billion, which this House appropriated to county governments.

If that is the intention, then this amendment is what you would call in law, otiose. It is unnecessary. We do not need to be processing it. I wish that report was here. I told the Senate Majority Leader that I cannot trust intentions. I can only trust action and a report that has been tabled before the House.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, if, indeed, it is true that the seconder of this Motion has convinced me and has demonstrated that it is the position of the Finance and Budget Committee that the Kshs401 billion that was allocated to county governments through a mediated process; will obtain, then let us not waste the time of the Senate debating this Bill.

Article 96 of the Constitution obliges the Senate to represent and protect the interests of counties and their governments. That is our primary duty. This morning, Sen. Mumma and I had the privilege of joining the Devolution Donor Working Group. They were reflecting on the public finance management space in this country. We were reflecting on additional grants, which has become a problem and how to make effective transfers to county governments.

This Senate has been called upon at critical junctures. Those of us who have been here from the 11th, 12th and now the 13th Parliament, we recall in the 11th Parliament, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale led a march to the office of the Inspector General of National Police Service to demand the arrest of governors who had refused to submit themselves to the Senate.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, this Senate went to the Supreme Court to seek an advisory on the role of Senate in the division of revenue. This gave rise to ground-breaking jurisprudence that restored the right and the obligation that the division of revenue must be processed by the Senate. This is because when devolution started, some people thought that dividing revenue will be a National Assembly responsibility and allocating revenue would be a Senate responsibility.

In the 12th Parliament, some of the Senators present although not many of them are here right now marched to the High Court in Milimani. We were led by the late Sen. Yusuf Haji, Sen. Amos Wako, Sen. Gideon Moi and other Senators who had never tasted teargas in their lives. On that day, they decided as they say; kama mbaya, mbaya. If we are going to face teargas on the streets in our march to the High Court, so be it.

We went there and we secured a ground-shaking precedent that developed jurisprudence when it came to inter-governmental relations. It led to the collapse of a number of Bills that had been processed without concurrence of the Speaker of the Senate.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, this House should never preside over a session where the allocation of resources to counties is being reduced for reasons that counties have nothing to with. I say so because the basis for allocation and sharing is not the revenue that was supposed to have been collected in this financial year. I know Sen. Oketch has been trying to convince me and I disagree with him.

The Constitution says that revenue shall be divided on the basis of the most recent audited accounts as adopted by the National Assembly. To that extent, it is the 2021/2022 revenue. In the financial year 2022/2023, revenue grew. We cannot then confuse ourselves with the drop of revenue in the financial year 2024/2025. We shall deal with it when we get to it. We shall apply a revenue growth factor on the 2023/2024 revenues on the day the National Assembly shall process and adopt the financial statements for 2023/2024.

Order, hon. Members! I have confirmed that we do not have quorum as of now.

Serjeant-At-Arms, kindly ring the Quorum Bell for 10 minutes.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for this opportunity. I thank Members for running to our refuge immediately.

Point of information, Mr. Temporary Speaker, sir.

Yes, since he is on the Finance and Budget Committee.

Sen. Cherarkey, your time is up. Sen. M. Kajwang’, proceed.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I rise to oppose this amendment having had the privilege of getting an explanation from Sen. Oketch Gicheru, who is a Member of the Finance and Budget Committee. How I wish this House would have benefited from the report of the Finance and Budget Committee. We had a little bit of a heated exchange with the Senate Majority Leader not too long ago. I insisted and he informed me that the Finance and Budget Committee intends to retain the Kshs401 billion, which this House appropriated to county governments.

I thank Sen. Eddy Oketch. If that report was there, it would have saved me the heated exchange with the Senate Majority Leader. I said that I cannot trust intention. I can only trust what has been tabled and put before the House. We hope that those intentions will be purer than scheduling this debate at 5 p.m. on a Thursday when the House is in low season

This is a debate that cannot and should not end today. It is a debate that every Member of this House needs to lend their voices to. Any adjustment in the amounts of money allocated to county governments will result in a downward adjustment in the amounts of money allocated to those counties.

We may not like the people who have been elected to run our counties, their style, their ethics and integrity, but we must love the people who are in those counties. When we allocate this money, it is not for the governors, their cheerleaders and the County Executive Committee Members (CECMs) and all those other people who make life a living hell in county governments.

It is supposed to be for the people. The Senate must stand up to say that when money was being shared between the national government and its wasteful habits, we stood up to send more money to county governments so that water and health could be provided, roads could be built, houses could be provided and markets could be built.

I was extremely embarrassed recently when I had the opportunity for the first time to sit with President Ruto in a room when he visited my region. When it came to what leaders were asking for from the national Government, you would find those who already had a responsibility and a budget to deliver devolved services were still asking the President for houses, markets, water and roads. Yet, this Senate works very hard. We are here up to this time to send Kshs400 billion so that roads and markets can be built, water can be provided and hospitals can be built.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, let us not despair. Those bad habits sometimes run for five years. I know Sen. (Dr.) Murango has waited longer than many of us. However, as sure as dawn, it will come. Sometimes it appears darkest when it is close to dawn.

You have entrusted us, as members of the committees, to ensure there is proper accountability for those resources. We must step up our game, do more, bring more reports,

and build greater synergies with the EACC, the Directorate of Public Prosecution (DPP) and with the Judiciary to ensure that action is taken against those who are caught with their fingers in the till.

I was happy to read the Cabinet dispatch from the Cabinet meeting of this week. One of the first action items that they resolved was to strengthen governance. I saw that we are going to bring an omnibus Bill talking about governance laws. I hope that will tighten the loopholes that many of these corrupt people have been slipping through.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the guy who attempted to shoot Donald Trump at a golf course in Florida was arrested that afternoon and taken to court the following day. Proceedings are ongoing and judgment will be rendered quickly. Why does it take five years for us to investigate corruption cases? What is it that the prosecutors are hoping will happen? Is it a tree they are hoping will grow so that they go and demonstrate to the judge that it has grown? We must ask ourselves what makes it take so long?

Sen. Mumma brought up a very sad story here of a girl who was defiled in 2021 and that the charges are still on, the prosecution is still ongoing and judgment has not been entered. If there was assault, or defilement of a 13-year-old, what other evidence does the prosecutor hope will come for that matter to be closed?

We must style up. I hope that those governance laws that the Cabinet is talking about will address some of those loopholes that have to do with economic crimes--- My legal team in the CPAC helped me to understand what economic crimes are all about. Economic crimes are those matters to do with pilferage or loss from public funds and that is the responsibility of the EACC.

The EACC has let us down in a major way because they have told us stories that cases of Kshs20 million sometimes are too small for their investigation. What if someone stole Kshs20 million from a hospital? It means that there would be death and no provision of blood or antivenom. From where the EACC sits, they think that in terms of materiality, they should be going for the Kshs1 billion cases and not the Kshs20 million cases. As they say, there is no small nor big sin. Sin is sin. So, our agencies and our partners must style up.

Today I am opposing this amendment because I want counties to retain the Kshs400.1 billion that we approved. Today there is no governor in the village; all the governors are in Nairobi because there is no money in counties. In the months of June, July, August and September, you can barely get activities in counties because there is no money. From next week, all governors will be trooping back to the village. They will be there for a week then they will disappear again. There is a problem, but let us think about the people in the counties rather than the emperors and the rulers in the counties.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, if I saw the report of the Standing Committee on Finance and Budget, I would have said I support the amendments. In the absence of it, I reject this amendment.

off. An amendment should lead to incremental improvements in the monies that go to counties and in the services that counties offer.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I oppose because the Bill as it is before us, proposes a reduction to Kshs380 billion.

This Senate, through the Finance and Budget Committee, which we gave the responsibility to carry out public participation, advised us that the right allocation to county governments ought to be Kshs415.9 billion. All of us across the aisle, it was a unilateral agreement that counties need Kshs415.9 billion and reasons were given. The reasons included the non-discretionary expenditure that Sen. Oketch Gicheru has talked about. The non-discretionary expenditure amounts to Kshs30 billion.

When the two Houses went into mediation, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale and I were part of the Mediation Committee. We put up a strong fight. We insisted on the Kshs415 billion, but we were convinced that fiscal consolidation and other big English would not allow that money to be realised. We settled on Kshs401 billion. That did not take away the discretionary expenditure.

We even proposed scrapping the money allocated to county aggregation and industrial parks for the counties that had not started. We were told that this was a presidential initiative that could not be touched. We ended up with 47 aggregation and industrial parks that will be highly exalted warehouses costing Kshs500 million without anything productive going on inside.

In aggregation and industrial parks, you must look at the value chain. It is not just putting up a building on one model. On one model, one Bill of Quantities is done in Nairobi. You are telling Tharaka Nithi County to build a county aggregation and industrial park, the size and scale equivalent to Uasin Gishu. This cannot be practical.

If we talk about reduction, we must also identify the expenditure areas we should avoid. For that reason, we agreed in mediation to go for Kshs400 billion. If we now say that counties should get Kshs380 billion, then counties will shut down.

The allocation in the prior financial year was Kshs384 billion. The National Assembly tried to be clever by saying that out of the 384 billion, an amount was earmarked for road maintenance levy, so that it should be deducted from the baseline. That is conmanship.

There is no way this Senate, looking at its constitutional mandate under Article 96, can preside over and tolerate an amendment Bill that wants to reduce the allocation to Kshs380 billion when the prior year was Kshs384 billion and when our original proposal was Kshs415.9 billion. I oppose this amendment.

If the report was here saying that we are only deleting Clause 3 and only amending the row on shareable revenue and national Government share of that and retaining the Equalisation Fund, the County Equitable share to what was in the Bill as originally passed then this amendment is not a very useful one.

Point of information, Mr. Temporary Speaker, sir.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, may I start by requesting the Senate Majority Leader that when he sees the disconnect that is there on matters of budget in the National Assembly, it invites him to talk to his compatriot, the Leader of Majority in the National Assembly, that reduction would totally collapse the policy of the President and Government on critical areas if it was not properly listened to.

The Members of the National Assembly are quick to accept the proposal from the National Treasury, not realizing that the key things that the President is carrying almost like his flagship issues will be affected if county governments do not get the Kshs400.1 billion. I will not go into dissecting issue by issue. My colleague in the Committee, the Senator for Migori County has already done so.

Senate Majority Leader, next time, because this thing will come to pass again, let the National Assembly see that some of the policies of the President and Government are domiciled in the counties.

The Kshs39.5 billion non-discretionary expenditure that will be at risk if we cut this money, is at the heart of the housing flagship project of the President. It will collapse. The county aggregated industrial parks and the voluntary community health promoters will collapse.

What is even more scaring is the Collective Bargaining Agreement (CBA) that was signed by the Ministry of Health with the doctors on behalf of county governments. A whopping Kshs5.8 billion in that CBA is supposed to be spent by county governments in paying salaries for those doctors.

So, if we just blindly adopt that reduction, then the drama of deaths in hospitals and doctors on the streets will be the order of the day. So, it is out of respect that the Whip of the Government is opposing this Bill because we want those flagship issues that I have spoken to, to succeed.

Number two, my brother, the Senate Majority Leader, the amendment of Section 5, which is in Clause 3, is extremely dangerous. This is because, as was ably mentioned by the Senator for Homa Bay; from 2013, we have always known that any shortfall in revenues realized, is borne by the national Government. Now, with this single amendment, it means that we shall be sharing.

We adopt this new standard and, indeed, we will have watered down the ruling of the Supreme Court which that before any appropriation is done in the National Assembly, it should be preceded by the DORA. So, if we do not insulate by refusing this amendment, it means that now, that ruling of the Supreme Court, that helped us to protect funds from being tampered with during appropriation, will now be vulnerable. We do not want to lose that.

I know I will continue the following day because as I can see my time is up, but let me make this last point.

Tomorrow afternoon at 2.30 p.m. there will be a ruling on NG-CDF. I can assure you that the Supreme Court will find that thing unconstitutional. This year, in this Bill, NG-CDF is supposed to receive Kshs68.1 billion. So, there will be a floating Kshs68.1 billion tomorrow. They do not have to take away our Kshs20 billion from our county governments. Let them just allow Kshs20 billion to remain and then they can do whatever they want with the balance of Kshs48.1 billion that will be available tomorrow.

Yes, since he is on the Finance and Budget Committee.

Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, you will have a balance of 13 minutes when we resume.

Hon. Members, let us rise.

Proceed to conclude Sen. M. Kajwang'.

I thank Sen. Eddy Oketch. If that report was there, it would have saved me the heated exchange with the Senate Majority Leader. I said that I cannot trust intention. I can only trust what has been tabled and put before the House. We hope that those intentions will be purer than scheduling this debate at 5 p.m. on a Thursday when the House is in low season

This is a debate that cannot and should not end today. It is a debate that every Member of this House needs to lend their voices to. Any adjustment in the amounts of money allocated to county governments will result in a downward adjustment in the amounts of money allocated to those counties.

We may not like the people who have been elected to run our counties, their style, their ethics and integrity, but we must love the people who are in those counties. When we allocate this money, it is not for the governors, their cheerleaders and the County Executive Committee Members (CECMs) and all those other people who make life a living hell in county governments.

It is supposed to be for the people. The Senate must stand up to say that when money was being shared between the national government and its wasteful habits, we stood up to send more money to county governments so that water and health could be provided, roads could be built, houses could be provided and markets could be built.

I was extremely embarrassed recently when I had the opportunity for the first time to sit with President Ruto in a room when he visited my region. When it came to what leaders were asking for from the national Government, you would find those who already had a responsibility and a budget to deliver devolved services were still asking the President for houses, markets, water and roads. Yet, this Senate works very hard. We are here up to this time to send Kshs400 billion so that roads and markets can be built, water can be provided and hospitals can be built.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, let us not despair. Those bad habits sometimes run for five years. I know Sen. (Dr.) Murango has waited longer than many of us. However, as sure as dawn, it will come. Sometimes it appears darkest when it is close to dawn.

You have entrusted us, as members of the committees, to ensure there is proper accountability for those resources. We must step up our game, do more, bring more reports,

and build greater synergies with the EACC, the Directorate of Public Prosecution (DPP) and with the Judiciary to ensure that action is taken against those who are caught with their fingers in the till.

I was happy to read the Cabinet dispatch from the Cabinet meeting of this week. One of the first action items that they resolved was to strengthen governance. I saw that we are going to bring an omnibus Bill talking about governance laws. I hope that will tighten the loopholes that many of these corrupt people have been slipping through.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the guy who attempted to shoot Donald Trump at a golf course in Florida was arrested that afternoon and taken to court the following day. Proceedings are ongoing and judgment will be rendered quickly. Why does it take five years for us to investigate corruption cases? What is it that the prosecutors are hoping will happen? Is it a tree they are hoping will grow so that they go and demonstrate to the judge that it has grown? We must ask ourselves what makes it take so long?

Sen. Mumma brought up a very sad story here of a girl who was defiled in 2021 and that the charges are still on, the prosecution is still ongoing and judgment has not been entered. If there was assault, or defilement of a 13-year-old, what other evidence does the prosecutor hope will come for that matter to be closed?

We must style up. I hope that those governance laws that the Cabinet is talking about will address some of those loopholes that have to do with economic crimes--- My legal team in the CPAC helped me to understand what economic crimes are all about. Economic crimes are those matters to do with pilferage or loss from public funds and that is the responsibility of the EACC.

The EACC has let us down in a major way because they have told us stories that cases of Kshs20 million sometimes are too small for their investigation. What if someone stole Kshs20 million from a hospital? It means that there would be death and no provision of blood or antivenom. From where the EACC sits, they think that in terms of materiality, they should be going for the Kshs1 billion cases and not the Kshs20 million cases. As they say, there is no small nor big sin. Sin is sin. So, our agencies and our partners must style up.

Today I am opposing this amendment because I want counties to retain the Kshs400.1 billion that we approved. Today there is no governor in the village; all the governors are in Nairobi because there is no money in counties. In the months of June, July, August and September, you can barely get activities in counties because there is no money. From next week, all governors will be trooping back to the village. They will be there for a week then they will disappear again. There is a problem, but let us think about the people in the counties rather than the emperors and the rulers in the counties.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, if I saw the report of the Standing Committee on Finance and Budget, I would have said I support the amendments. In the absence of it, I reject this amendment.

Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale proceed.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I am glad to be coming soon after the Senator of Homa Bay County. Senator, when you read our report, you will find that it is very explicit. We have rejected the proposal by the National Assembly that we entertain any reduction. We are really upbeat.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, may I start by requesting the Senate Majority Leader that when he sees the disconnect that is there on matters of budget in the National Assembly, it invites him to talk to his compatriot, the Leader of Majority in the National Assembly, that reduction would totally collapse the policy of the President and Government on critical areas if it was not properly listened to.

The Members of the National Assembly are quick to accept the proposal from the National Treasury, not realizing that the key things that the President is carrying almost like his flagship issues will be affected if county governments do not get the Kshs400.1 billion. I will not go into dissecting issue by issue. My colleague in the Committee, the Senator for Migori County has already done so.

Senate Majority Leader, next time, because this thing will come to pass again, let the National Assembly see that some of the policies of the President and Government are domiciled in the counties.

The Kshs39.5 billion non-discretionary expenditure that will be at risk if we cut this money, is at the heart of the housing flagship project of the President. It will collapse. The county aggregated industrial parks and the voluntary community health promoters will collapse.

What is even more scaring is the Collective Bargaining Agreement (CBA) that was signed by the Ministry of Health with the doctors on behalf of county governments. A whopping Kshs5.8 billion in that CBA is supposed to be spent by county governments in paying salaries for those doctors.

So, if we just blindly adopt that reduction, then the drama of deaths in hospitals and doctors on the streets will be the order of the day. So, it is out of respect that the Whip of the Government is opposing this Bill because we want those flagship issues that I have spoken to, to succeed.

Number two, my brother, the Senate Majority Leader, the amendment of Section 5, which is in Clause 3, is extremely dangerous. This is because, as was ably mentioned by the Senator for Homa Bay; from 2013, we have always known that any shortfall in revenues realized, is borne by the national Government. Now, with this single amendment, it means that we shall be sharing.

We adopt this new standard and, indeed, we will have watered down the ruling of the Supreme Court which that before any appropriation is done in the National Assembly, it should be preceded by the DORA. So, if we do not insulate by refusing this amendment, it means that now, that ruling of the Supreme Court, that helped us to protect funds from being tampered with during appropriation, will now be vulnerable. We do not want to lose that.

I know I will continue the following day because as I can see my time is up, but let me make this last point.

Tomorrow afternoon at 2.30 p.m. there will be a ruling on NG-CDF. I can assure you that the Supreme Court will find that thing unconstitutional. This year, in this Bill, NG-CDF is supposed to receive Kshs68.1 billion. So, there will be a floating Kshs68.1 billion tomorrow. They do not have to take away our Kshs20 billion from our county governments. Let them just allow Kshs20 billion to remain and then they can do whatever they want with the balance of Kshs48.1 billion that will be available tomorrow.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, this is patriotism that we are demonstrating by committing ourselves to the lives of the people of Bomet. Picture your mind to the lives of the people, not in these upper areas of Bomet where you grow tea, but Chepalungu. We have been in this country; we know where Kenyans live.

When you deny Bomet money, you are killing the people of Chepalungu and the villagers in---

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, you will have a balance of 13 minutes when we resume.

Hon. Members, let us rise.