Thursday, 14th March, 2024 Morning Sitting

Clerk, do we have quorum?

Serjeant-at-Arms, kindly ring the Quorum Bell for 10 minutes.

Serjeant-at-Arms, I am informed we now have a quorum. Kindly stop the bell.

Clerk, proceed to call out the first Order. Hon. Senators, kindly take your seats so that we proceed with today’s business.

Services, Senate. the proposed removal from office, by impeachment, of Hon. (Dr.) Robert Monda, the Deputy Governor of Kisii County.

I, therefore, ruled that the witness be summoned and subsequently directed the Office of the Clerk of the Senate to immediately issue the summons and facilitate the appearance of Mr. Oyagi in the Senate today, Thursday, 14th March, 2024, at noon, to produce his appointment letter and confirm if the persons who are said to be working in the Deputy Governor’s home, are officials of the County Government of Kisii.

It has been indicated to me that the said witness is available this morning. I, therefore, wish to ask the Counsel for the County Assembly to confirm whether he is ready to present the witness. Are you ready to present the witness?

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Njiru): Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Hon. Members of the Senate, good morning? My name is Ndegwa Njiru. We continue to appear together with Mr. Mutuma, Mr. Ndegwa Mwangi, and Ms. Munyoki.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, if granted an opportunity by the Senate, we will present the witness.

Sen. Madzayo, you may walk in and take your seat.

Hon. Senators, that being the case, I wish to guide the Senate as follows–

Could you swear in the witness?

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: David, good morning?

Services, Senate.

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: Good morning, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Mwangi): For the record, kindly state your name, where you work and your designation.

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. My name is Mr. David Oyagi. I am the Acting Director of Enforcement, Kisii County Government.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Mwangi): What are your roles as a Director of Enforcement?

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: Mr. Speaker, Sir, as the Acting Director of Enforcement, I supervise enforcement operations throughout the county. I am the overall commander of that unit of enforcement. I also ensure there is safety and protection of county properties and critical installations, among other duties.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Mwangi): You are aware that you are here pursuant to the summons of the Senate?

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: Yes, I am aware. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Mwangi): You are aware that you are also here to respond to issues that were raised with regard to the abuse of office in the impeachment of the Deputy Governor?

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: Yes, I am aware. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Mwangi): Have you had an opportunity to look at the issues that have been raised?

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: To some extent I have done. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Mwangi): Now, Mr. David, there were issues that were raised regarding the deployment of county enforcement officers on two issues. One, on the issue of the arrest of one Reuben Monda, the brother to the Deputy Governor, and also the issue of four enforcement officers who have been working or doing odd jobs at this home.

Now, if we begin with the first issue, the issue of the 20 enforcement officers who have been deployed, can you address the Senate on that issue kindly?

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I state before this Senate that the issue of mobilization and deployment of the 20 enforcement officers came to my knowledge on 29th February, 2024, when the Motion on the Impeachment of H.E the Deputy Governor of Kisii County was being led by at the County Assembly.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Mwangi): Did you take any step following your knowledge?

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: Mr. Speaker, Sir, after learning about that occurrence and being the officer in charge of that directorate and that my officers, or my office, has been implicated in the proceedings at the Assembly, I thought it was good to do a statement to the Assembly to clarify and shed more light on that occurrence.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Mwangi): Following your statement to the County Assembly, did you also take any step or do any preliminary investigations?

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: Mr. Speaker, Sir, I initiated an investigation immediately. I did a letter to my Deputy Director who is in charge of sub counties,

Services, Senate. instructing him to provide information to my office on what exactly transpired that day, and why he did not communicate to my office earlier enough as pertaining that incident.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Mwangi): Did you find out how and who deployed the said officers?

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: Following the report of my Deputy Director who went to the ground because I instructed him to go to the ground, he came and he wrote a report to me. He stated that the officers were mobilized and commandeered by the Sub-County Administrator of Nyaribari Chache and the Sub-County Enforcement Officer.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Mwangi): Was that commandeering of your officers within the knowledge of your office or the office of your deputy?

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: No. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Mwangi): Was it legal or lawful?

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: Procedure requires that the Office of the Director of Enforcement be informed of any occurrence. So, there was no communication made to me. Therefore, that was unlawful deployment.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Mwangi): Did you find the motivation for the Sub-County Commander to commandeer the deployment?

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: Yes, from the report of my Deputy in charge of sub- counties, the person who gave instructions to the Sub-County Administrator and the Sub- County Commander is H.E the Deputy Governor of Kisii County.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Mwangi): Is it your evidence or statement that the Deputy Governor directly commanded to deploy the said officers?

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi:It is. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Mwangi): Mr. David, there was a clip that was played yesterday. The clip in regard the arrest of Reuben Monda, if we could have it up kindly.

As we wait for that clip Mr. David, does the Deputy Governor have the right to command, of course, he is the Deputy Governor of Kisii County. Do you think or does he have the right to command the enforcement officers?

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: In civil service, there are procedures and protocols to be followed in any operation. H.E the Deputy Governor has no mandate to direct, command or give instructions directly to the enforcement officers.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Mwangi): He has to follow the procedures?

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: He has to follow the procedures. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Mwangi): Now, do you have those correspondences of the communication that you sought clarification from your deputy and his response with you?

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: Yes, I have.

Services, Senate.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Mwangi): Would you mind supplying them to the Senate for them to look at them?

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi:I can, but I do not have enough copies. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Mwangi): All right, the arrangements will be made.

Now, kindly play the clip. That clip Bw. David, it was introduced yesterday by one Reuben Monda.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Mwangi): How many?

Twenty-two enforcement officers. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Mwangi): So, there were officers to be commandeered?

Services, Senate.

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: There is no provision. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Mwangi): There is no provision for entitlement, but is he also entitled to his own personal staff who are paid by the county?

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Mwangi): Are those personal staff part of county enforcement officers?

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi:No.

Yes,

Are those the people we are talking to before this?

Services, Senate. evening, Mr. Rueben Monda, was addressing the media, kindly. Just the very few first seconds of that video. This video is in the Ekegusii language.

The reporter is talking about trees. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Mwangi): What else?

The conflict between him and his brother. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Mwangi): Does he mention the issue of county officers?

Kindly, pause. What is your understanding of that video, Bwana Director?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I can see the first person and there is a reporter. The person on television is not talking about enforcement officers or county staff. The person who is talking about enforcement officers is the narrator of the story. However, the complainant is complaining about his arrest using police and enforcement officers.

I cede my few minutes to

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Just hold on counsel. What is your intervention, Sen. Kathuri?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, because I am participating in this quasi-judicial court as a judge, yesterday, we were privileged to get a very good interpreter who was neutral. He interpreted the language nicely.

I am not aware why he is not available today. I want to trust an independent and professional interpreter who can give us the right message so that as we make our determination, we can understand what was spoken in Ekegusii language.

Very well.

Services, Senate.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): Mr. Speaker, Sir, if I may, our worry was that---

The Speaker (Hon. Kingi): Just pause there, counsel. We would wish to be guided by an independent interpreter on the content of that video, not to the understanding of your witness.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Our worry was that the interpreter, the very specific one who came yesterday, misrepresented the version. If we can have a different one, that would be most obliged, because we seem to be having two different versions of the same story.

I am informed we had two interpreters yesterday. Can we have the second one to interpret this video for the hon. Senators, please? Then, your witness can put it in context.

Counsel, let me just get you correctly. Are you saying that the interpreter who interpreted this video yesterday, did not interpret it correctly?

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Indeed, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

According to who? The Counsel for the County Assembly

: According to the people well-versed with the Ekegusii language, that was the indication. Perhaps we can hear from another source if they will stick to the very version of the other interpreter.

Counsel, allow the video to play and then let us get the interpretation. Yes, Counsel for Deputy Governor.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. We have an objection to that. Our objection is in the sense that we will be going in circles. You will recall that the interpreter did an interpretation initially. Objections were raised by Members of this Senate saying that that interpretation was not correct. The interpreter was then given a second chance to interpret and the whole process went to the end.

The hon. Members who had raised an objection and who understood Kisii did not raise an objection neither did the counsels for the County Assembly. Now, to ask for the third time for an interpretation will not be designed to get the proper interpretation, but designed to get the interpretation that the county Assembly counsel want. It is not intended to know the exact position, but rather their position.

For that reason, we contend on our part that the interpretation has been adequately supplied. There is no point in wasting and spending time in hunting out for the type of interpretation that the county counsel want.

Very well. Counsel for the County Assembly, there was an interpreter who did interpretation yesterday. Is that correct?

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Indeed, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Therefore, as the team from the County Assembly, you were adequately covered in terms of the interpretation that was done yesterday?

Therefore, as the team from the County Assembly, you were adequately covered in terms of the interpretation that was done yesterday?

Counsel for the County Assembly? The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

We cannot have several versions of the interpretation. An interpreter is an interpreter. If this video was given its true interpretation yesterday, the matter rests.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Most obliged, Mr. Speaker, Sir. However, I would urge you once you retreat to consider this matter in camera, you can have your own consideration based on Senators who are well versed with the language. I stand guided.

Good, then just proceed with your witness. We do not have to hear another version of Gusii language. Gusii language is one.

Sen. Onyonka, Gusii language is one, or do we have several versions of Gusii language?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, Gusii language is one. The interpretation that was given made me understand. I did not see any contradiction and I was not misguided.

Proceed with your witness. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. Haggai, do you have any personal interest---

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am not sure whether I can be heard.

Clerk, kindly power the counsel’s microphone. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Mr. Haggai--- I still feel it is quite low. Mr. Witness, do you have any personal or ulterior interest in these proceedings? Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: No. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Have you been coerced, influenced or persuaded to take a certain stand towards the deployment of the officers that you are alleging were deployed on 20th December?

Mr. David Oyagi: Not at all. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: When did you receive the summons from Senate?

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: I received the summons yesterday. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: What mode? Mr. David Haggai Oyagi:They were served to me.

Clerk, kindly power the counsel’s microphone. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Mr. Haggai--- I still feel it is quite low. Mr. Witness, do you have any personal or ulterior interest in these proceedings? Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: No. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Have you been coerced, influenced or persuaded to take a certain stand towards the deployment of the officers that you are alleging were deployed on 20th December?

Mr. David Oyagi: Not at all. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: When did you receive the summons from Senate?

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: I received the summons yesterday. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: What mode? Mr. David Haggai Oyagi:They were served to me.

Services, Senate.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): How were you served?

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: By the server of the Court, he called me. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): When did you travel from Kisii to Nairobi?

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: I travelled tonight. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): Thank you. You have told the Senators that the information about the deployment of the 20 officers came to your knowledge on 29th February, 2024. The event itself---

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: Sorry, Counsel. There is an initial question that you have not understood clearly. Can you repeat the question about the travelling? Do you mean travelling from where I stay or from Kisii?

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): From wherever you were to Senate.

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: I travelled today morning from where I reside. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): You have indicated that the information about the deployment of the 20 officers to the Deputy Governor’s home to arrest his brother came to your knowledge on 29th February, 2024, correct?

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): The event itself took place on 20th December, 2023. That is two months apart.

Mr. David Oyagi: Correct.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): Kindly go ahead.

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi:Yes.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): Kindly go ahead.

I have said, the sub-county has 22 enforcement officers. The duty roster is usually done after a period of one or two weeks. So, they keep on rotating.

Counsel for the Deputy Governor, your witness. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Mr. Speaker, Sir, a preliminary issue; we have not been served with this report that is being referred to by this witness. If we can get a copy.

Counsel for the County Assembly, can you make available the copy of the report you are referring to?

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. Speaker, Sir, with your guidance, we do have the reports. We are also seeing them for the very first time. However, we are obliged to serve our colleagues and later make arrangements to supply it to the House.

Counsel for the County Assembly, can you make available the copy of the report you are referring to?

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. Speaker, Sir, with your guidance, we do have the reports. We are also seeing them for the very first time. However, we are obliged to serve our colleagues and later make arrangements to supply it to the House.

Clerk, can you make that report available to the hon. Senators?

Proceed, Counsel. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Mr. Oyagi, you have stated that you are the Head of Compliance.

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: I am the Head of Enforcement and Compliance. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: In an acting capacity or permanently employed?

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: I am serving in an acting capacity. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Under whose pleasure do you serve?

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: I serve the County Government of Kisii, not an individual.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Who leads it? Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: The County Government of Kisii is led by His Excellency the Governor.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: So you serve at the Governor's pleasure.

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: I serve the County Government of Kisii. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: I will refer you to the two reports. Are they three or two reports?

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: They should be three. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Okay. In a chronological manner, let us start with one from 1st March. You can refer to that one.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, and Members of the House, I know you do not have the benefit of having the copies, but the questions I ask do not go into the specifics. Can I proceed?

Proceed. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Do you have the letter of the 1st March, 2024?

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: I only had that copy, but you can proceed. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: In that copy, do you indicate the officers who were mobilized and deployed to the Governor's house?

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: At that time, it was an allegation. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: No. Do you indicate who these officers are? Are their names indicated?

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: I did not indicate the names, but I gave--- The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: This is a simple question. Did you indicate their names?

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: No. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Okay. Yes, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale.

Counsel, you are not addressing individual Senators. Kindly cross-examine the witness.

Counsel, you are not addressing individual Senators. Kindly cross-examine the witness.

Witness, these are very simple questions that attract either yes or no. Let us proceed so that we do not waste time.

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am well guided. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Let us go to the last report. This is the one you have made. So, from that letter, is that a yes or no? Does it indicate where they are deployed?

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: No, it does not. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Okay. Let us go to the report of 8th March. Does it indicate the officers?

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: It does not indicate the names of the officers. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Does it indicate the name of the officers who are deployed on the 20th December?

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: It does not. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Does it indicate the names of the officers who have been deployed at the Deputy Governor's house, as you allege?

Witness, these are very simple questions that attract either yes or no. Let us proceed so that we do not waste time.

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am well guided. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Let us go to the last report. This is the one you have made. So, from that letter, is that a yes or no? Does it indicate where they are deployed?

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: No, it does not. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Okay. Let us go to the report of 8th March. Does it indicate the officers?

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: It does not indicate the names of the officers. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Does it indicate the name of the officers who are deployed on the 20th December?

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: It does not. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Does it indicate the names of the officers who have been deployed at the Deputy Governor's house, as you allege?

Services, Senate.

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: It does not. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): Okay. So, there is no way for this Assembly to know that officers were deployed on the 20th December or are currently deployed at the Deputy Governor's house?

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: The House is able to know because--- The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): Is there a way to identify them from your reports?

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: I can supply the names. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): No, as we stand here, is there a way to identify them?

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: No. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): Okay. Let us move to the issue of the four officers who were deployed at the Deputy Governor’s house. Your testimony was that you learnt of this before the impeachment proceedings.

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): Were these officers sent or deployed there by yourself?

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: I said they were not officially deployed because there is no official document in our records.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): So, are these officers deployed to another place? Are they assigned another duty in the county?

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: What I meant is that the officers are taken to do a distinct---

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): In your department, are there officers who are not assigned to specific duties?

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: All officers are assigned specific duties and with letters?

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): So, these four officers have been assigned duties elsewhere and they are not doing those duties but have moved to the Deputy Governor’s. Is that is your evidence?

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to state that the deployment must be documented.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): However, you are saying they are not deployed to the Deputy Governor’s.

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: They are deployed with no documentation. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): What do you mean that they are deployed without documentation?

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: Mr. Speaker, Sir, when deployment is done, there has to be an official deployment letter.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): Okay. As their supervisor, have you taken any disciplinary action against these people who have been deployed with no letters?

Services, Senate.

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: I have complained in writing to my supervisor. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): Is that letter of complaint before this tribunal?

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: No. Mr. Speaker, Sir. It is not. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): In reference to the allegations of the deployment of 20 officers on the 20th December, you have said that you only learnt about it on the 29th February.

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: Exactly. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): Before that, were you aware of the Motion to impeach the Deputy Governor?

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: I learnt about the Motion after following the proceedings of the Assembly.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): Before that, you did not know that there was a Motion going on at Assembly?

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: I did not know. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): Did you hear about any public participation with regard to the charges that were facing the Deputy Governor?

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: Mr. Speaker, Sir, I do not work at the Assembly. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): No. I am asking, did you hear about it as a person living and working in Kisii County?

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: I heard there was a public participation, but I did not bother to ask what it was about.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): Even when it allegedly involved 20 of your officers?

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: I learnt about 20 of the officers at the Assembly. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kelvin Michuki): Okay. Thank you, Mr. Oyagi. I will cede my remaining time to Senior Counsel, Mr. Katwa Kigen.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Good morning, Mr. Oyagi.

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: Good morning. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): It is your testimony to this Senate that where you stand, both the officers who went, the 20 and the ones who were deployed, were not properly designated to do those respective things from your record.

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: They did. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Okay. For purposes of making that contention to this Senate, you referred to a certain record, is that not so?

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Kitwa Kigen): What was that record?

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: The report that I got from my Deputy.

Services, Senate.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Okay. Now, when you say they were not deployed, is it a document or just word of mouth from the Sub County Ward Administrator?

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: You know the procedure of deployment--- The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Just answer. Do you have a record of your deployments? Let me ask it like that.

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi:The record is not there. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): You do not have any record showing deployments?

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: Nothing like that because they were not properly deployed.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Do you have a record of all your enforcement officers?

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: Yes, I have. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Have you annexed it to any of your documents?

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: Right now, no. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): So, you do not have the record of the totality of your officers. Are those officers designated to do certain duties?

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: Enforcement officers are supposed to do enforcement duties.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Just answer my question. Is the total population of the enforcement officers in your portfolio assigned duties?

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: They are assigned duties. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Is there a record showing that this one is supposed to be at the hospital, the stadium or the county offices?

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: Yes, there is. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): It is true that you have not brought that to the Senate?

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: The summons--- The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Please answer my question. For purposes of saying 20 people went to the Governor’s brother’s house and that there are people working at the Deputy Governor’s house that were not meant to be there. Have you brought the deployment records showing where those people were supposed to have been deployed?

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: No. Mr. Speaker, Sir. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): You said that one of the criteria that you used to come and testify to this Senate is that there were no letters of deployment. Is that so?

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: They were not officially deployed.

No. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): It is based on?

On my deputy who is in charge of sub-counties. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): How did he get that information again?

On my deputy who is in charge of sub-counties. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): How did he get that information again?

Services, Senate.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): If we really wanted to know for a fact that indeed 20 people went to the Deputy Governor’s house and that there are people not deployed there, the best person would have been that sub-county ward administrator. That is the person who has the raw information because he was in that vicinity. Is that it?

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: Yes, but he failed to report. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): That is not what I have asked you. I am saying that is the person who would have told this Senate directly that I know for a fact, that there are four people working there who are not designated to work there and there are 20 people who went to the Deputy Governor’s house. That is the person who would say that, from personal knowledge.

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: The enforcement officers--- The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Please understand my question. My question is, the person who has personal knowledge of whether or not there are four people working at the Deputy Governor’s house and whether or not, 20 people went to effect arrest is the sub-county ward administrator. That is the person right on the ground?

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: There is a sub-county commander who reports to me. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Okay. So, who is the most immediate person to the vicinity of the house of the Deputy Governor and who would know which people went to his house?

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: The sub-county enforcement commander. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): That is the person who would have told this Senate directly what happened. Is that it?

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: The sub-county commander reports to me. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): On the question of the witness, that would have been the best witness for the Senate to know whether what you are saying is true or not. You are telling us what you were told and it is not what you know.

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am in charge of the Directorate of Enforcement.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): What you are telling this Senate is what the sub-county enforcement commander told you?

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): I know my colleague, Mr. Mutuma asked you whether you came here under coercion or whether you were threatened and so forth. Why was it necessary to be careful about that and they take precaution that you do not been seen as a weaponized witness?

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: I am in charge of--- The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): I am just asking why are you defensive when nobody has made any accusation against you? Why is there that defensive sense that you might have been a weaponized witness?

Very well counsel, conclude in the next three minutes.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

As we speak today, do you know where all the population of your enforcement officers are?

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: Yes, I know. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Since when? Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: This morning. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: So, before that, when you are acting and were deputy, you did not know where your people were, including the 20 that went to arrest and the four that were at the Deputy Governor’s?

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: You asked as I am standing here. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Before that, did you know?

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: I know. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Did you know? Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: I know. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: I am not asking about today. We are talking about your testimony saying that there are four people in the Deputy Governor’s place you did not know about.

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: I know about the four and I said here that I complained to my boss.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: When, after the Impeachment Motion?

Very well counsel, conclude in the next three minutes.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

As we speak today, do you know where all the population of your enforcement officers are?

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: Yes, I know. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Since when? Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: This morning. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: So, before that, when you are acting and were deputy, you did not know where your people were, including the 20 that went to arrest and the four that were at the Deputy Governor’s?

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: You asked as I am standing here. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Before that, did you know?

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: I know. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Did you know? Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: I know. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: I am not asking about today. We are talking about your testimony saying that there are four people in the Deputy Governor’s place you did not know about.

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: I know about the four and I said here that I complained to my boss.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: When, after the Impeachment Motion?

Counsel for the County Assembly, any re- examination?

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. Speaker, Sir, I will be very brief.

David, you have been asked whether, you have identified the personal staff of the Deputy Governor and your enforcement officers. The question is, are personal staff of the Deputy Governor under your direct control?

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: No. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Are you here speaking about his personal staff or your own staff?

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: I came to talk about enforcement officers. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: You have also been asked whether you have brought the documents complaining about the four officers about the report that you forwarded to your boss. Correct?

Counsel for the County Assembly, any re- examination?

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. Speaker, Sir, I will be very brief.

David, you have been asked whether, you have identified the personal staff of the Deputy Governor and your enforcement officers. The question is, are personal staff of the Deputy Governor under your direct control?

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: No. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Are you here speaking about his personal staff or your own staff?

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: I came to talk about enforcement officers. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: You have also been asked whether you have brought the documents complaining about the four officers about the report that you forwarded to your boss. Correct?

Services, Senate.

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Mwangi): Do you have your complaint letter about the four officers?

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: The complaint about the four officers was done immediately I resumed office.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Mwangi): Was it done before the impeachment?

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: It was done before the impeachment. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Mwangi): You have also been asked whether it is you who ought to have come here or it was your Deputy Director at the sub-county level. The question is, who complained at the County Assembly level?

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: I raised the complaint. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Mwangi Ndegwa): Are you the author of the statement at the County Assembly level?

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: I am. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Mwangi Ndegwa): Is it pursuant to that statement that you were summoned?

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: That is true. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Mwangi Ndegwa): You have also been asked about whether you have brought documents or records on deployment of 20 enforcement officers and employment letters for your officers. When did you receive the summons?

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: I received the summons yesterday. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Mwangi Ndegwa): When you did, to your understanding, what were you coming to speak to?

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: I was coming to talk about deployment of enforcement officers.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Mwangi Ndegwa): If you had enough time, would you supply those documents?

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Mwangi Ndegwa): You have also been asked whether you have done investigations correctly. Is that correct?

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Mwangi Ndegwa): The question is; what did the preliminary investigation report reveal to you to the extent that you are not able to mention the names of four officers among the 20 enforcement officers?

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: The preliminary report indicates that it is true that 20 enforcement officers were mobilised and deployed to execute an operation. About the four---

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Mwangi Ndegwa): Are the investigations complete?

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: The investigations are ongoing.

Thank you. The witness may retire. Now, we are going to hear the case of the Deputy---

Sen. Crystal Asige, what is your intervention?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I just have a point of clarification and hope that you can guide. It is with regard to the summons letter that was sent after your directive yesterday, through the Clerk’s Office, for the witness to appear before us.

I would like to know whether the summons indicated or outlined the documentation and material evidence that this witness was required to appear with here this morning and if he was to bring 67 copies for each Senator, so that we understand what was required of him to bring when appearing before us.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I just have a point of clarification and hope that you can guide. It is with regard to the summons letter that was sent after your directive yesterday, through the Clerk’s Office, for the witness to appear before us.

I would like to know whether the summons indicated or outlined the documentation and material evidence that this witness was required to appear with here this morning and if he was to bring 67 copies for each Senator, so that we understand what was required of him to bring when appearing before us.

Could I get a copy of the summons so that we are clear on the contents?

Senator for Nandi, what is your clarification?

Just a quick one to the witness. Acting Deputy Director, I have three questions only. First, when were these four officers deployed at the Deputy Governor’s office? You said 20 were sent to assist in the arrest, but in your letter, you have said that they were illegally sent there. When was that? Do you have those facts?

Secondly, you have said in your report--- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am trying to be quick. The Acting Director, Enforcement and Compliance has said that some enforcement officers doing manual work at the Deputy Governor’s home is a matter under investigation. Are you aware of what the four officers were doing?

Finally, as the Acting Director, Enforcement and Compliance, have you ever visited the Deputy Governor’s home to check what your officers are doing there? How long have you been acting in that position?

Witness, proceed to respond. Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: Mr. Speaker, Sir, I said about four enforcement officers. I learned immediately I resumed office on 11th August, 2023. I have hitherto complained in writing. Regarding the 20 enforcement officers, it came to my knowledge when the Motion was being discussed at the County Assembly.

The issue of enforcement officers doing manual job as reported by my Deputy Director in charge of sub-counties is a matter under investigation. Once investigations are complete, I shall report to the Chief Officer (CO) in charge of my department.

Regarding visiting the home of the Deputy Governor, I visited once immediately I assumed office. That is the time I realised that four enforcement officers were deployed there without any documentation. I have complained about it.

Concerning how long I have acted, this is the seventh month since 11th August,

Sen. Chute, do you have any question or clarification?

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for the opportunity. I have two questions to the witness. How long have you been acting as Director? Secondly, who is supposed to take responsibility for the four officers who were deployed to the Deputy Governor’s house? Is it the Deputy Governor or your office?

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: Mr. Speaker, Sir, I was appointed as Acting Director of Enforcement and Compliance on 11th August, 2023. That means I have been acting for the past seven months. I take the responsibility for the four enforcement officers who are working at the Deputy Governor’s home without official deployment. I have said before this Senate that immediately after I learnt about this development, I wrote a complaint letter to the CO in charge asking him to take it up.

Sen. Wambua, what is your clarification?

Sen. Wambua, what is your clarification?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is to the witness. When exactly did you get to know about the mobilization and deployment of officers to the home of the Deputy Governor?

Secondly, according to your own records, the incident happened on 20th December, 2023, yet the first letter that you wrote on this matter was on 1st March. Why did it take too long for you to demand and explanation?

Lastly, at the time of your demand letter to your deputy, had the impeachment proceedings against the Deputy Governor started?

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: Mr. Speaker, Sir, I learned about the deployment of the 20 officers at the Assembly when the Motion of impeachment was being discussed. Upon learning that, as an officer who is in charge of that directorate, I felt that my department was implicated and I thought that it was prudent to take a statement and shed more light on that incident. That is on the 29th February, 2024.

The following day was the first of March. That is when I wrote a letter to my Deputy Director in charge of Sub Counties instructing him to start investigations and report to my office what transpired on that date of 29th December, 2023 explaining to me why this information did not reach our office.

On the 4th of March, my Deputy wrote to me after undertaking preliminary investigations and confirmed to me that, indeed, the 20 enforcement officers were mobilised and they assisted in the arrest of our Deputy Governor’s brother at his home in Keumbu.

Why it took so long is the question that all of us need to understand. This incident is happening at the home of the Deputy Governor. My sub-county commander and the sub-county administrator are involved in this arrangement. The reason why they did not report to me, as usual, is an issue that requires further investigations and disciplinary action taken against them.

I have recommended in my letter if you can see; the letter dated 8th March, 2024 to the Chief Officer (CO) . In the last part paragraph, “The sub- county administrator and sub-county commander failed to report to our office as required of them.” Reason? Well known to them. I have forwarded to the CO for further action.

Sen. Mandago?

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I would like to ask the witness, one, who is in charge of civil servants at the sub-county level? Two, what position did you serve before being appointed Acting Director for Enforcement?

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: At the sub-county level, the person who is in charge of enforcement officers is the sub-county enforcement commander who reports also to the sub-county administrator. The sub-county commander reports to my office directly on matters of enforcement.

On the position I held before I became the Acting Director of Enforcement, I have been the Deputy Director of Enforcement in charge of Kisii Municipality.

Now, with regard to the issues raised by Sen. Crystal Asige, I will read the summons so that you may appreciate the contents of the summons -

Now, with regard to the issues raised by Sen. Crystal Asige, I will read the summons so that you may appreciate the contents of the summons -

Services, Senate.

“To Mr. David Haggai Oyagi, WHEREAS pursuant to Article 181 of the Constitution and Section 33 of the County Governments Act, 2012, on Thursday 29th of February 2024, the Kisii County Assembly approved a Motion for removal from office by impeachment of Deputy Governor (Hon. (Dr.) Robert Monda of Kisii County;

WHEREAS by a letter dated Wednesday of 1st March 2023 and received in the Office of the Senate on 2nd March 2024, the Speaker of the County Assembly of Kisii informed the Speaker of the Senate of the approval of the Motion by the County Assembly and further forwarded to the Speaker of the Senate documents in evidence of the proceedings of the Assembly; and

WHEREAS pursuant to Section 33(5) of the County Government Act Cap 265 and Standing Order No.80(1) (b) (2) of the Senate Standing Orders, the Senate at a sitting held on Thursday the 7th of March 2024 resolved to investigate the matter in plenary within ten days;

WHEREAS following the resolution of the Senate at a sitting held on Thursday the 7th of March 2024, the Clerk of the Senate issued invitation to appear to the County Assembly and to the Deputy Governor of Kisii County inviting them to appear and be represented before the Senate during its investigations and to file with the Office of the Clerk of the Senate various documents relating to the matter; and

FURTHER by a letter referenced CAK/3/1/C/CS/002 2024 dated the Friday 8th of March 2024, Hon. (Dr.) Philip Nanyumba the Speaker of the County Assembly of Kisii in response to the invitation to appear and pursuant to Rule 10 of the Third Schedule to the Senate Standing Orders requested the Senate to summon you to appear before the Senate; and;

FURTHER, whereas by the Speaker’s ruling made during the hearing of the Senate on Wednesday the 13th of March 2024, the Senate acceded to the request by Hon. (Dr.) Philip M. Nanyumba, the Speaker of the County Assembly of Kisii on behalf of the County Assembly of Kisii;

WHEREAS Article 125 of the Constitution, Section 18 and 20 of the Parliamentary Powers and Privileges Act Cap 6 and Rule 10 of the Third Schedule to the Senate Standing Orders empowers the Senate or its Committees to summon any person to appear before it for purposes of giving evidence or providing information;

NOW THEREFORE, the Senate hereby summons you to appear before the Senate in person on Thursday 14th of March 2024 at p.m. at the Senate Chamber main Parliament buildings in Nairobi to do the following

home are officials in the county.

Take note that should you fail to attend before the Senate on the time and date specified in this summons or to produce the documentation required by the Senate, the Senate may impose upon you a fine not exceeding Kshs.500,000 or may order for your arrest pursuant to Sections 19(1) and 19(3) respectively of the Parliamentary Powers and Privileges Act Cap 6 and;

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker, Sir for giving us that clarification. Yes, you mentioned the two items that he was required for and with. One is his appointment letter as I have heard correctly and to confirm about the officers that have been spoken about here.

Thank you, very much.

Sen. Kavindu Muthama. Sen. Kavindu Muthama: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. When the witness was answering the question he was asked by Sen. Wambua, he contradicted himself because when the lawyer was asking him questions, he said that he is aware of where his officers are all the time and every day. However, on this particular one he said that he was not aware until when at the County Assembly. Can he clarify that?

Proceed witness? Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. It is true, I am aware, all the time, of where my enforcement officers are. However, in this particular case, is unusual, whereby enforcement officers are mobilized, deployed and go to effect an arrest, without any report to my office.

That is why, when I learned of this, I took the action of instructing my deputy to explain this lapse of not reporting to my office.

The report that my deputy gave was that the sub-county administrator and the sub-county commander who were in charge of this operation failed to report. Reason? Well known to them, and I have advised that action be taken against them.

Sen. Kathuri, you may proceed

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Mine are just two simple questions. I want the witness to go on record.

Mr. Witness, under whose command are the enforcement officers in the Kisii County Government? Second, does the Deputy Governor have any mandate on the deployment of these enforcement officers?

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: Mr. Speaker, Sir, the county enforcement officers of the County Government of Kisii are under the command of the Director of Enforcement. Whether the Deputy Governor has the right to command enforcement officers, it is no.

Sen. Kathuri, you may proceed

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Mine are just two simple questions. I want the witness to go on record.

Mr. Witness, under whose command are the enforcement officers in the Kisii County Government? Second, does the Deputy Governor have any mandate on the deployment of these enforcement officers?

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: Mr. Speaker, Sir, the county enforcement officers of the County Government of Kisii are under the command of the Director of Enforcement. Whether the Deputy Governor has the right to command enforcement officers, it is no.

Services, Senate.

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Director of Enforcement is the witness standing before the Senate. I am acting in that capacity, and my name is David Hagai Oyagi.

What is the Specific name of the Director?

Proceed Mr. Witness.

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for the opportunity. Could the witness kindly tell us what he was doing before he became the Acting Director of Enforcement?

Secondly, is there a routine duty roster? Thirdly, when there is a crisis, how do they allocate the duties, and who sits in that meeting?

proceed, Mr. witness. Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: Mr. Speaker, Sir, before I resumed the Office of the Director of Enforcement as the Acting Director, I was the Deputy Director, but in charge of the Municipality.

About the deployment and how we react, normally, in these operations, if there is an incident happening at the sub-county level, the person who is in charge of those officers is the sub-county enforcement commander, who reports to the Director's Office directly through the Deputy Director of Enforcement in charge of sub-counties.

Once the office is aware, we take charge of that activity and monitor closely so that we can report accordingly.

Sen. Maanzo, you may proceed

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Did you direct or sanction this activity, whereby there was an arrest conducted by 20 officers?

Mr. David Haggai Oyagi: Mr. Speaker, Sir, this incident happened on 29th December 2023. I did not sanction. I was not aware of it. As I have said in this House, I learned it at the County Assembly. It came to my knowledge that one of the reasons the Hon. Deputy Governor was being engaged in deployment of enforcement officers to arrest his brother.

Sen. Boni.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. My clarification arises from the assertion by the Counsel for the Deputy Governor that the witness serves at the pleasure of the Governor of Kisii County.

Section 35 of the County Governments Act gives the Governor the responsibility to form and appoint, with the approval of the County Assembly, the County Executive Committee.

The same Act in Section 59, gives the power of appointment of the rest of the staff to the County Public Service Board, which appointed the witness.

In view of this provision, is the counsel of the defendant going to be magnanimous enough to come and rescind that statement so that it is not in the record that this witness serves at the pleasure of the Governor of Kisii County and that he is appearing this morning purely to canvass to be confirmed in his acting capacity?

Counsel for the Deputy Governor, please proceed The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Mr. Speaker, Sir, the question and the fact that the witness acts in an acting capacity was the reason for the

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. My clarification arises from the assertion by the Counsel for the Deputy Governor that the witness serves at the pleasure of the Governor of Kisii County.

Section 35 of the County Governments Act gives the Governor the responsibility to form and appoint, with the approval of the County Assembly, the County Executive Committee.

The same Act in Section 59, gives the power of appointment of the rest of the staff to the County Public Service Board, which appointed the witness.

In view of this provision, is the counsel of the defendant going to be magnanimous enough to come and rescind that statement so that it is not in the record that this witness serves at the pleasure of the Governor of Kisii County and that he is appearing this morning purely to canvass to be confirmed in his acting capacity?

Counsel for the Deputy Governor, please proceed The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Mr. Speaker, Sir, the question and the fact that the witness acts in an acting capacity was the reason for the

Services, Senate. contention that he acted not at the direction, but at the pleasure of the Governor, who will ultimately, following directions from the County Public Service Board, be responsible ultimately to his final substantive appointment.

Very well. We will allow the witness to retire and now proceed with the defence of the Deputy Governor. Counsel for Deputy Governor, it is now your time.

Counsel, we have just had this witness who has just retired. If we can be able to adopt the time indication as we have observed with the witness it would be a good guiding principle. The examination took 20 minutes, cross examination took 15 minutes and re-examination 10 minutes.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: This witness is fairly substantive; I intend to take 30 minutes but I will manage my time---

Counsel let us then agree this way, that: Your examination, evidence-in-chief you will do 30 minutes, the cross examination will take 15 minutes and re-examination 10 minutes.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. Speaker, Sir, if you allow me because you have given directions as to cross examination, yesterday when we were dealing with the crucial witness, my learned senior Mr. Katwa, took approximately one hour and 20 minutes with the key witness.

Counsel, we have just had this witness who has just retired. If we can be able to adopt the time indication as we have observed with the witness it would be a good guiding principle. The examination took 20 minutes, cross examination took 15 minutes and re-examination 10 minutes.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: This witness is fairly substantive; I intend to take 30 minutes but I will manage my time---

Counsel let us then agree this way, that: Your examination, evidence-in-chief you will do 30 minutes, the cross examination will take 15 minutes and re-examination 10 minutes.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. Speaker, Sir, if you allow me because you have given directions as to cross examination, yesterday when we were dealing with the crucial witness, my learned senior Mr. Katwa, took approximately one hour and 20 minutes with the key witness.

That is unparliamentary. Therefore, I order it to be expunged from the record.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. He has whispered an apology to me and I accept it.

The counsel for the County Assembly was alleging the presence of a stranger in the representation.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Mr. Speaker, Sir, may I explain?

Counsel for the County Assembly are you now comfortable?

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: To the best of our remembrance Mr. Katwa Kigen did indicate his appearance yesterday. Therefore, we expect and anticipate that the same shall not be adjusted to suit his circumstances.

Counsel proceed.

was ushered into the Chamber)

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: We proceed directly. You have already given your full names. What do you do for a living?

Mr. Joseph Misati: I am a retired civil servant. I run some small businesses and have some dairy cows for a living.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Your son said that you also run an M-Pesa business.

Mr. Joseph Misati: Yes that is why I have said I have some small businesses, including M-pesa.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: I have just asked so that the Senate has the benefit of understanding you. How old are you if you do not mind?

Mr. Joseph Misati: Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am 68 years old.

Counsel for the County Assembly are you now comfortable?

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: To the best of our remembrance Mr. Katwa Kigen did indicate his appearance yesterday. Therefore, we expect and anticipate that the same shall not be adjusted to suit his circumstances.

Mr. Joseph Misati: Correct.

Mr. Joseph Misati: Yes.

Mr. Joseph Misati: Yes.

Services, Senate.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): You mentioned you are a retired civil servant. What were you doing before your retirement in the civil service?

Mr. Joseph Misati: In the civil service, I was a livestock officer in the veterinary section.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Lastly, do you have any religious affiliation and do you hold any office in church?

Mr. Joseph Misati: Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am a Catholic and even when I was in form one, I tried to go to Rakworu Seminary where I intended to be a priest, but I fell out on the way.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): You are a Catholic as we speak now?

Mr. Joseph Misati: Correct.

Mr. Joseph Misati: Yes.

Mr. Joseph Misati: Yes.

Services, Senate.

Mr. Joseph Misati: No, please. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Did the Deputy Governor have a direct conversation with Dennis?

Mr. Joseph Misati: No.

Mr. Joseph Misati: Pardon.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Was it your idea?

Services, Senate.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): You want him to lose--- That what you are doing is to frustrate him in getting back his money. What do you have to say about that?

Mr. Joseph Misati: I have not reached there. I do not know which money. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Okay. You want us to deal with that. I will change my approach then we come back. Let us talk about the real issue that we are here about. Is it true that a certain sum of money was paid out to Dr. Monda on the 28th May, 2023?

Mr. Joseph Misati: Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): It is true. Can you tell this Senate how the money was remitted?

Mr. Joseph Misati: Mr. Speaker, Sir, on 28th May, 2023, as usual and as friends, I made an appointment to see His Excellency the Deputy Governor at his home. I went with my three sons to his home. As we were seated, I had some social discussions with the Deputy Governor about 20 meters away from where I left my sons.

That is the time the Deputy Governor told me that he had given me money in October/November, 2022, after the elections, Kshs500,000. He asked me if I was in a position to refund his money. In that connection, I told him that I could try to refund the money. From my joint account with my wife, I transferred money from my account to His Excellency the Deputy Governor. It was Kshs70,0000 three times and Kshs41, 000. The total figure transferred was Kshs251,000.

In our discussions, he told me that he needed some money in cash. I told him that I did not have money in cash but that I will instruct my wife to send money to my son Dennis. My wife did that by sending Kshs250,000 for withdrawal in the nearest market. We tried to get the money but it was late and there was no shop with that float. Therefore, I instructed my son to transfer the money to His Excellency the Deputy Governor Dr. Monda.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Okay. I want us to look at your statement and take the Hon. Senators through the payments. I would like you to go to page 60, paragraph 11, of your statement. I want to correlate that with pages 65 and 66. In paragraph 11 you have said that ‘I, therefore, refunded by paying Kshs251,000 directly from my Co-operative Bank’. Can you see that in paragraph 11?

Mr. Joseph Misati: Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): You paid Kshs70,000 three times and Kshs41,000. I would like us to go to page 65. Are you there?

Mr. Joseph Misati: Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): On page 65 can you confirm that the remittances of Kshs70,000 are reflected three times?

Mr. Joseph Misati: Yes. Mr. Speaker, Sir. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): I want you to turn over to page 66. Is it true that Kshs41,000 is shown?

Mr. Joseph Misati: Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Mr. Joseph Misati: Correct.

Mr. Joseph Misati: Kshs250,000.

Mr. Joseph Misati: Correct.

Mr. Joseph Misati: Yes.

Services, Senate.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Can you confirm that this money that was pulled out of the joint account of yourself and your wife directly to the M-pesa account of Dr. Monda?

Mr. Joseph Misati: Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): The names of the accounts are Joseph D. Misati and Anna N. Misati. Is it?

Mr. Joseph Misati: Correct, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Let us move on to paragraph 12 where you said, ‘I thereafter asked my wife to remit the balance of Kshs249,000. I instructed her to remit the amount to my son Dennis. Can you see that?

Mr. Joseph Misati: Correct, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): I would like to take you to pages 75 to 88. I want us to go specifically to page 87. Are you on page 87? Hon. Senators, his wife’s M-pesa statement is on pages 75 to 88 on the Deputy Governor’s bundle. I want us to particularly go to page 88. Are you there?

Mr. Joseph Misati: Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Can you confirm that between the hours 1944 and 2001, your wife remitted the sum of Kshs50,000, Kshs50,000 and Kshs150,000 to Dennis Misati as it appears on the face of that Mpesa

Mr. Joseph Misati: Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): That constitutes to a total of how much?

Mr. Joseph Misati: Kshs250,000.

Mr. Joseph Misati: Correct.

Mr. Joseph Misati: Yes.

Services, Senate.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Number two, whose money was this?

Mr. Joseph Misati: The money was ours. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): What does ‘ours’ mean? Who and who?

Mr. Joseph Misati: My wife and myself. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): It was you and your wife?

Mr. Joseph Misati: Yes.

Mr. Joseph Misati: Three

By me. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): To who?

To His Excelency the Deputy Governor. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): It is you who requested to go and see him?

Mr. Joseph Misati: Correct.

Mr. Joseph Misati: Correct.

To His Excelency the Deputy Governor. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): It is you who requested to go and see him?

Mr. Joseph Misati: Correct.

Mr. Joseph Misati: Correct.

I am not aware. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): However, you are aware that Dennis says he has reported to EACC?

Mr. Joseph Misati: Yes.

No, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): You are not aware?

Services, Senate.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Okay. It is said also that Dennis wrote a demand letter for the payment. You saw that claim by Dennis, is it? A demand letter to ---

Mr. Joseph Misati: I have not seen that letter. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Just a minute. You are aware that Dennis says he wrote a demand letter to the Deputy Governor saying that he be given back his Kshs800,000. You saw that claim by Dennis, is it?

Mr. Joseph Misati: I saw that claim. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): You saw that?

Mr. Joseph Misati: Yes.

Mr. Joseph Misati: Pardon.

Mr. Joseph Misati: Pardon.

Services, Senate.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Okay. It is said also that Dennis wrote a demand letter for the payment. You saw that claim by Dennis, is it? A demand letter to ---

Mr. Joseph Misati: I have not seen that letter. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Just a minute. You are aware that Dennis says he wrote a demand letter to the Deputy Governor saying that he be given back his Kshs800,000. You saw that claim by Dennis, is it?

Mr. Joseph Misati: I saw that claim. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): You saw that?

Mr. Joseph Misati: Yes.

Mr. Joseph Misati: Pardon.

Mr. Joseph Misati: Pardon.

I am aware. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): You are aware?

Mr. Joseph Misati: Correct.

Mr. Joseph Misati: Yes.

Mr. Joseph Misati: Yes.

Mr. Joseph Misati: Correct.

Mr. Joseph Misati: Yes.

Mr. Joseph Misati: Pardon.

Mr. Joseph Misati: Yes.

Mr. Joseph Misati: Correct.

Mr. Joseph Misati: Yes.

Mr. Joseph Misati: Pardon.

Mr. Joseph Misati: Yes.

Services, Senate.

Mr. Joseph Misati: Joyce Monda--- The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Actually, let us say, Joyce Onsare.

Mr. Joseph Misati: Joyce Onsare is the wife of the Deputy Governor of Kisii. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): What was the basis of this money?

Mr. Joseph Misati: This is a usual transaction where we have been making by borrowing, receiving and refunding.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Lastly, in terms of the favours you give each other, I would like you to look at pages 108 to 117. Pages 108 to 117 is the bank statement of one Leah Onsare. Can you see that?

Mr. Joseph Misati: Yes.

Mr. Joseph Misati: Yes.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Why?

Services, Senate.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Mr. Misati, just look at me.Was the Deputy Governor giving you instructions or requesting you?

Mr. Joseph Misati: Do you know English? He just requested me. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): So, he was not instructing you?

Mr. Joseph Misati: Not instructing me. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): I was told I have five minutes. Lastly, your son said you were lying ama unasema uongo ukija hapa. What do you have to say about that, that you are lying?

Mr. Joseph Misati: That is not true. I love all my sons. I have six sons in total and all of them, except one, are graduates. Others have done Masters degrees.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): All your children are graduates and others have postgraduate degrees?

Mr. Joseph Misati: Correct.

Services, Senate.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Mr. Misati, just look at me.Was the Deputy Governor giving you instructions or requesting you?

Mr. Joseph Misati: Do you know English? He just requested me. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): So, he was not instructing you?

Mr. Joseph Misati: Not instructing me. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): I was told I have five minutes. Lastly, your son said you were lying ama unasema uongo ukija hapa. What do you have to say about that, that you are lying?

Mr. Joseph Misati: That is not true. I love all my sons. I have six sons in total and all of them, except one, are graduates. Others have done Masters degrees.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): All your children are graduates and others have postgraduate degrees?

Mr. Joseph Misati: Correct.

If I may repeat that, when somebody is--- The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): I am out of time.

Mr. Joseph Misati: Yes.

Mr. Joseph Misati: Yes.

I am not going to say that. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): You want to withdraw that?

Mr. Joseph Misati: Yes.

Mr. Joseph Misati: Yes.

Hon. Senators, let us now have the Counsel representing the County Assembly.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker. Sir. It is always a pleasure to listen to my Senior, Mr. Kigen.

Mr. Joseph Misati: Correct.

Mr. Joseph Misati: Pardon?

Hon. Senators, let us now have the Counsel representing the County Assembly.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker. Sir. It is always a pleasure to listen to my Senior, Mr. Kigen.

Mr. Misati, good morning?

Services, Senate.

Mr. Misati, good morning?

I cannot recall the date. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): Was it this year or last year?

It was somewhere in June. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): That was last year.

It was in 2023. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): And that is the time when the announcement was made on the filling of the recruitment at the GWASCO Limited, is it not?

Mr. Joseph Misati: Yes.

It was somewhere in June. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): That was last year.

Services, Senate.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): Would you want to see your close friend of 32 years go down through an impeachment process? Would you like to see that?

Mr. Joseph Misati: He is a friend, of course, and I would never wish for anything which is against him.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): Thank you. Therefore, you will do whatever it is within your powers to defend and protect him when he is faced with challenges, like he has stood up for you previously?

Mr. Joseph Misati: But not through instructions. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): But he is your friend and that is something you would willingly do.

Mr. Joseph Misati: It is a willing behaviour. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): Thank you. While I am still at that, you have confirmed in your affidavit appearing at Page 59 of the Deputy Governor’s response that you have been asking favours from each other, including seeking job opportunities for your children. Is that correct?

Mr. Joseph Misati: Like any other person. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): In this case, we are talking about you and not any other person.

Mr. Joseph Misati: That is correct. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): So, you have been seeking those favours?

Mr. Joseph Misati: Not always. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): Specifically, in this case, you have deponed an affidavit that you did approach the Deputy Governor and asked him to assist in employment of your son, Dennis Mokaya. That is your evidence, correct?

Mr. Joseph Misati: That is true. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): So, you are not disputing that you approached him and he promised to assist?

Mr. Joseph Misati: I cannot dispute, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): Which position were you asking him to assist in the recruitment?

Mr. Joseph Misati: Somewhere in April, 2023, there was an advertisement at GWASCO, which I saw through the newspapers. Since I wanted my son back home, I informed my son to go through the website and look for the application.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): So, it was you who approached your son and notified him of a possible vacancy at GWASCO.

Mr. Joseph Misati: It is me who informed my son. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): Thank you. Subsequently, you asked the Deputy Governor before shortlisting to assist in that recruitment.

Mr. Joseph Misati: Yes.

Mr. Joseph Misati: Correct.

Services, Senate.

Mr. Joseph Misati: No, please. I went to the Deputy Governor's place after the interview was done.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): After the interview was done?

Mr. Joseph Misati: Correct.

Witness, just give the correct position. What is your position on the questions that you are being asked? These are very straight questions that you are being asked, anyway.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: He was supposed to use his position to assist with the recruitment of your son as your friend. Is it not?

Mr. Joseph Misati: He was not to use his position, but as a friend, not the position of the Deputy Governor.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: But he was supposed to ensure that happens.

Mr. Joseph Misati: I cannot say that because he never got the job. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: But suppose he got the job? I am talking about your request. In your understanding, what was he supposed to do to make sure that, that job was secured?

What we are talking about right now is what happened. If the position was competitive and my son was not taken, therefore, he never qualified.

What is your point of order, Sen. Sifuna.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, you need to remind the witness that he is under oath and his responsibility to answer truthfully and not be evasive or argumentative in his answers. This is because I am getting very frustrated listening to the answers. I am unable to discern the answers that are coming from the witness.

Sen. Sifuna, from where I sit, you know, I cannot tell whether it is truthful or not, but he should. What he needs to do is to answer specific questions as they are.

That is what I am saying.

The questions are just ‘yes’ or ‘no’ answers. From where I sit, I cannot tell whether it is truthful or not. The judges in this room will be able to determine that.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, fortunately for me, I am seated here as a judge. Please, let him just answer the question.

I have heard you, Sen. Sifuna.

I do not want to open that route. I have ruled that the witness should answer questions directly, as he is asked. Let us not go to the route of more point of orders kindly, hon. Senators.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, fortunately for me, I am seated here as a judge. Please, let him just answer the question.

I have heard you, Sen. Sifuna.

I do not want to open that route. I have ruled that the witness should answer questions directly, as he is asked. Let us not go to the route of more point of orders kindly, hon. Senators.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Mr. Joseph Misati: Correct.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): Proceed to 13.

“I then instructed my son to remit the Kshs249,000 to His Excellency the Deputy Governer, Robert Monda, which he did. The balance of Kshs1,000, partly to cover transaction charges.”

Mr. Joseph Misati: Correct.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): Proceed to 13.

Mr. Joseph Misati: No.

Mr. Joseph Misati: Correct.

Mr. Joseph Misati: Yes.

Services, Senate.

Mr. Joseph Misati: Mr. Speaker, Sir--- The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): That is your statement on oath, ‘yes’ or ‘no’?

Mr. Joseph Misati: No.

Mr. Joseph Misati: Correct.

Mr. Joseph Misati: Yes.

Two minutes only, Counsel. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Now, you had that information by the time you were reducing it into an affidavit. Is that not so? You had the information that the Deputy Governor had requested for cash and not through an M-pesa. That information was with you when you were writing this affidavit.

Mr. Joseph Misati: It was, but--- The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Thank you. That is the answer I wanted. However, you did not reduce it in writing. You are telling us for the

The former Chair was here and did a very good Communication, and I do not want to change the rules of the game midway. I will give you one minute as you wind up.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, kindly give me five minutes because this has been a difficult witness in answering question.

Mr. Joseph Misati: Correct.

Services, Senate. first time today, at the Senate. Is that not so? Is today the first time you are making that allegation at the Senate? That is a very simple question.

Mr. Joseph Misati: Correct.

Mr. Speaker, Sir---. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): It is a ‘yes’ or ‘no.’

I have some bit of explanation to give before I say ‘yes’ or ‘no.’

Mr. Speaker, Sir---. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): It is a ‘yes’ or ‘no.’

I have some bit of explanation to give before I say ‘yes’ or ‘no.’

Counsel, now--- The Counsel for the County Assembly

: I was building up on that issue.

You are abusing my magnanimity. Kindly, let us get the other Counsel. There will be a lot of prejudice on my part if I do not conclude on that issue.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, you will note that this has been a very difficult---

It is up to you to utilize the two minutes that I give you. If you keep on asking for more time and I have directed you what to do, why do you not shoot your questions that you want to achieve?

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the problem---

Hon. Senators, if the witness has those weaknesses, you are the people to determine this case. I do not want you to direct the witness on what to say or what not to say. Please, avoid exchanging with the Chair.

Senate Minority Leader, just give me time to manage this process. This is not an issue of which side or not. Please, I beg you. Let me have the other Counsel.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, if you may allow me as the Lead Counsel, the defence still has six more witnesses. The rest of the witnesses have been allocated 15 minutes each. We will sacrifice one witness. We will not cross-examine him. Then, we will allocate that 15 minutes to this witness.

We will not cross-examine one of the Members of the County Assembly (MCAs) , so that we are able to do justice to this case through this witness. That is the compromise we shall make.

For record purposes, can you give me the name of the Member of County Assembly that you want to cede the 15 minutes?

Hon. Senators, if the witness has those weaknesses, you are the people to determine this case. I do not want you to direct the witness on what to say or what not to say. Please, avoid exchanging with the Chair.

Senate Minority Leader, just give me time to manage this process. This is not an issue of which side or not. Please, I beg you. Let me have the other Counsel.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, if you may allow me as the Lead Counsel, the defence still has six more witnesses. The rest of the witnesses have been allocated 15 minutes each. We will sacrifice one witness. We will not cross-examine him. Then, we will allocate that 15 minutes to this witness.

We will not cross-examine one of the Members of the County Assembly (MCAs) , so that we are able to do justice to this case through this witness. That is the compromise we shall make.

For record purposes, can you give me the name of the Member of County Assembly that you want to cede the 15 minutes?

You cannot use more than 15 minutes. Proceed. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. You notice that this is a key witness that needs to be thoroughly cross-examined.

Mr. Misati, you have confirmed that your son, who is your driver, is mostly with you when you are running your errands. Correct?

Mr. Joseph Misati: Running my what? The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Errands. When you are going about your business, he is the one who is close to you. He is the one who is at home. He is your driver. Correct?

Mr. Joseph Misati: Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Why was it then important for you to send money to Dennis, who is not that close to you, than use your driver who had a car, to go and withdraw that money and bring it back?

Mr. Joseph Misati: Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, because His Excellency the Deputy Governor, Dr. Robert Monda, in our discussion said that he needed some cash instead of going to M-pesa. That is the time I decided that the money was to be remitted to a younger person, who will be able to run quickly to the---

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. Witness, could your son run faster than your car that is being driven by your other son? Is that what you are telling the Senators, that, indeed, Dennis was capable of running faster than a driver with a car?

Mr. Joseph Misati: Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, as we have said that, I have used Jared Misati to be my driver, and that is indicating he is the most trusted to me in terms of management. I wanted also to show my son, Dennis Misati, that I love him through sending that money, for him to also act on that.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: That has been noted, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. You have also claimed at Paragraph 24 - hon. Senators, that is appearing at Page 61 - that the amount of money that you sent to Dr. Monda was part of the Kshs600,000 he had lent you. Correct?

You have alleged at Paragraph 24 that previously, you had received Kshs600,000 from Dr. Monda.

Mr. Joseph Misati: That was in January.

I will give you 15 minutes for the first one. For Thomas, I will give 15 minutes. Strictly 15 minutes, Counsel, no addition, no subtraction.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: We are most obliged, it is good horse-trading. We are most humbled.

Proceed from “the amounts were partly---”

Mr. Joseph Misati: Correct.

Proceed from “the amounts were partly---”

Services, Senate.

Mr. Joseph Misati: Correct.

She is, I think, 13 years. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): Where is she currently?

Mr. Joseph Misati: Pardon?

Celda Kwamboka Mokaya. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): How old is she?

Services, Senate.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Njiru): To whom did you make it? Did you make it to your friend, Dr. Monda or to the Deputy Governor of Kisii County?

Mr. Joseph Misati: Pardon?

Where was that job supposed to come from; from his farm, from his shop or from the county government?

I have asked you two issues. Where was the job supposed to come from?

My friend,

Mr. Joseph Misati: Yes.

I have asked you two issues. Where was the job supposed to come from?

Can you see where he is saying, “Mr. Speaker, Sir, just as a good friend---”

Mr. Joseph Misati: Dennis.

Mr. Joseph Misati: Yes.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Njiru): Next page.

Can you see where he is saying, “Mr. Speaker, Sir, just as a good friend---”

Mr. Joseph Misati: Dennis.

Mr. Joseph Misati: Yes.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Njiru): Next page.

Like any other staff who under the Governor’s Office, where I am also the Deputy Governor---

To the Governor and--- so indicated to Lucy--- The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Njiru): So, I indicated to Lucy. Asking her if they had such kind of jobs and she said ‘yes.’ As a friend, making a request that he gets his son a job, like everyone of us here would do, and she told me, ‘let us wait for the process. If he qualifies, we shall not deny him a job.’ Is that the discussion?

As it is. The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Njiru): Thank you. Proceed to read.

To the Governor and--- so indicated to Lucy--- The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Njiru): So, I indicated to Lucy. Asking her if they had such kind of jobs and she said ‘yes.’ As a friend, making a request that he gets his son a job, like everyone of us here would do, and she told me, ‘let us wait for the process. If he qualifies, we shall not deny him a job.’ Is that the discussion?

Mr. Joseph Misati: No.

Order, Senators. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: I put it to you that there is a difference between the statement ‘to pay’ and ‘to refund.’ Therefore, because you have preserved English for us, the lawyers, I put it to you that the two words have different meanings. Yes?

Mr. Joseph Misati: It is very difficult for me to understand. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: I, therefore, put it to you that paying is different from refunding.

Mr. Joseph Misati: According to you, yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Therefore, I further put it to you that the word ‘payment’ being used here is the corruption and bribery for your son to succeed with a job. Yes?

Mr. Joseph Misati: Payment is not a bribe. It will depend with the context. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: In this context now. Thank you.

Mr. Joseph Misati: That is wrong. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Let us have a look at Page 111 of the same bundle of Deputy Governor. It is a statement by Leah Nyachera Onsare, a statement from Co-operative Bank.

Mr. Joseph Misati: Correct.

Mr. Joseph Misati: No.

Services, Senate.

Mr. Joseph Misati: Correct.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, my point of order is to appeal to you. The appeal is arising from the provisions of the Rules of Procedure. I invite you to look at Rule No.22 in our Standing Orders.

I am appealing to you that you vacate your direction, in order to accommodate the time constraints, the Counsel for the County Assembly should lose his opportunity to cross-examine two witnesses.

Rule No. 22 says- “A witnesses presented shall be led in evidence, cross-examined and, where necessary and only for purposes of clarification of issues that may have arisen in cross- examination, a witness may be re-examined.”

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, with the long years of experience in this Parliament, I know that whatever decision we make here is still open to being challenged in the High Court. If we are going to be found to have breached our own Rules, our very ultimate decision is open to being challenged. We are not going to dine from---

What is your point of order? Are you suggesting that the witness should not be re-examined?

Yes. It looks like you were not listening to me.

Rule No.22 is addressing cross- examination. Just in case there are other issues of clarifications, the Witness is summoned.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I know. If you listened to me, you would see where I am heading. The point I am making is that vacate your ruling that two witnesses---

Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, I made that ruling. You should sit down.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I will not take that.

I cannot vacate my ruling. Sorry.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I will not take that.

I cannot vacate my ruling. Sorry.

Rule No.22 does not address the matter you put.

It is.

Are you also challenged in English Language?

Am I?

Let me give Sen. Cherargei an opportunity to say something. He is a lawyer, who practices English than you.

Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, resume your seat. I have heard you.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. We are cautioned because- -- The Bible says that we should not serve the law, but that the law should serve us. In our Ruling No.30 of the same on the procedures, you have the power to determine on a particular question, but not limited to question of evidence, materiality, relevance, competency or admissibility of evidence and any question consequential or incidental thereto.

Your ruling is Solomonic and should not be vacated. In any case, in the tradition and precedent, the issue raised by my brother, the Senate Majority Whip, has been overtaken by events. That matter has stopped from being discussed. Therefore, I request that we proceed as you had directed.

Thank you, let us proceed now. Take a minute, Sen. Sifuna.

I wanted to calm the nerves of my senior, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, that far from the big words Sen. Cherargei wants to use, he has not shed light on the issue. I want to calm his anxiety by explaining that if a party has chosen to waive their right to cross-examination, there is no problem. So, it is them who have requested to waive that right to cross-examine those two. Not under pressure, so that they can focus their attention on other witnesses they believe would better advance the argument.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, you are just okay. You are struggling, but you are okay.

Sen. Sifuna, you are out of order. Can you withdraw that last point?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it was with a light note, but I withdraw and apologize. You are a man of substance.

Counsel, you have 10 minutes. Let us proceed.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it was with a light note, but I withdraw and apologize. You are a man of substance.

Counsel, you have 10 minutes. Let us proceed.

Mr. Joseph Misati: Pardon?

Mr. Joseph Misati: No.

Yes, from now. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker.

Mr. Joseph Misati--- Mr. Joseph Misati: Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: A number of questions were put to you on whether you defend the Deputy Governor on whatever he wants. You were also asked on whether you act on his instruction and that you would do anything.

The question I want to ask you directly is: would you go out of your way to defend the truth or --- What are you defending today? Is it the truth?

Mr. Joseph Misati: The truth, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You are standing for the truth

Mr. Joseph Misati: Yes.

Mr. Joseph Misati: Pardon?

Mr. Joseph Misati: No.

Services, Senate.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): You normally visit him?

Mr. Joseph Misati: Yes.

Just stick to that lane. You have a lot of experience, Katwa Kigen.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Thank you, Mr, Deputy Speaker, Sir. I do not want you to be very verbose. Could you just answer the question? Why was it that Dennis was going there for the first time that day?

Mr. Joseph Misati: Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, earlier, I stated that my son has been in Nairobi for more than 13 years.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: So, the reason you had not gone with him is because he has been away from Kisii in the neighbourhood of the visit. True?

Mr. Joseph Misati: correct, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You have been asked why you chose Dennis to receive the M-Pesa as opposed to Jared whom you have always worked with. What is your answer to that? Why did you choose Dennis?

Mr. Joseph Misati: Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, you have got a number of children, you must balance how you can love them.

In that context, you can see that Jared is the person who has been driving me. Dennis has just come and I just want to show him that I love him by sending that money. In other words, not loving because I sent the money. It is just to indicate that I must balance my love towards my sons.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: So, you were showing love and trust to all of them?

Mr. Joseph Misati: Sorry?

Mr. Joseph Misati: Correct.

Counsel, are you done with the witness? The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Yes. I am done, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Mr. Joseph Misati: Sorry?

Mr. Joseph Misati: Correct.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. My question is to Joseph Misati. You said that you have six sons. Yes?

Mr. Joseph Misati: Yes. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir

Is your wife the biological mother to all of these six sons?

Ask through the Speaker so that he can respond to you. You know---

Okay, that is one of my questions. I would like to know if your wife, whom you are referencing, is the biological mother to all of the six sons, including Dennis.

Ask through the Speaker so that he can respond to you. You know---

Okay, that is one of my questions. I would like to know if your wife, whom you are referencing, is the biological mother to all of the six sons, including Dennis.

Hon. Senators, let us not introduce new and irrelevant issues that were not in the presentations. I want you to avoid those biological issues that you have been asked to do because they did not arise and they are seeking clarifications. Just answer relevant questions that you have been asked. Do not bother about the children and whether they are biological or not.

Mr. Joseph Misati: Thank you very much, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for saving me. It is only that talking about issues of who is the mother and who is the father---

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the second question was directed at me in terms of the provisions of Article 76 of the Constitution and the need for the propriety of conduct by---

An hon. Senator: On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, can I proceed?

Please proceed. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Thank you very much, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Regarding whether the Deputy Governor conducted himself properly in accordance to Article 76 of the Constitution, our answer is that he conducted himself properly.

First of all, we are not making an admission that this money was meant to make an influence because it was a mere refund. It is our position that borrowing between friends is not prohibited by Article 76 of the Constitution of Kenya. It is our position also that if it were to have been the case that it was meant to be a bribe, that is when you can invoke Article 76 of the Constitution. Our position is that it was not a bribe. It was a friendly loan between the two of them. It was a refund that was made on 28th May, 2023.

Let us have Sen. Wambua.

Please proceed. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Thank you very much, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Regarding whether the Deputy Governor conducted himself properly in accordance to Article 76 of the Constitution, our answer is that he conducted himself properly.

First of all, we are not making an admission that this money was meant to make an influence because it was a mere refund. It is our position that borrowing between friends is not prohibited by Article 76 of the Constitution of Kenya. It is our position also that if it were to have been the case that it was meant to be a bribe, that is when you can invoke Article 76 of the Constitution. Our position is that it was not a bribe. It was a friendly loan between the two of them. It was a refund that was made on 28th May, 2023.

Let us have Sen. Wambua.

You have two minutes.

Mr. Witness, what was the role of your sons in your visit to the Deputy Governor’s home? They accompanied and stayed away from you. When you went back, they had not heard what you discussed. What was their role in that visit?

Secondly, to the best of your knowledge, is there a personal relationship between your son Dennis and the Deputy Governor? When you allegedly sent him money to send to the Deputy Governor, did you also give him the Deputy Governor’s cell phone number?

Thirdly, is it your evidence on record and on oath that your son has cooked up a story to malign a person that he has no personal relationship with?

Proceed, Mr. Witness. Mr. Joesph Misati: Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for the love of my children, I usually move with them when they are at home especially on weekends when we want to visit friends.

Secondly---

Did you get the other questions? Mr. Joseph Misati: What was the second question?

Hon. Senator, let us avoid asking the witness many questions. Perhaps you should be writing them down so that you remember. The assistant there who is standing by the witness should assist and not necessarily the counsel. He should record what is being asked.

Sen. Wambua, proceed.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I also want you to guide us in these proceedings. Is it right for the counsel to coach the witness when we seek clarification from him?

I have directed that the counsel’s assistant should note what Senators are asking, so that you give the questions to the witness. That is why you are standing beside him to support him.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for the avoidance of doubt, I was not guiding him. I was just reminding him what the second question was; being, whether there is a relationship between---

Sen. Wambua, please, ask your second question.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, perhaps, this is the most important. To the best of your knowledge, is there a personal relationship between your son Dennis and the Deputy Governor? When he was given the money to send, was he also given the cell phone number of the Deputy Governor?

Please, answer that question. Mr. Joseph Misati: Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, all my sons, including Dennis, have a relationship with the Deputy Governor.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, perhaps, this is the most important. To the best of your knowledge, is there a personal relationship between your son Dennis and the Deputy Governor? When he was given the money to send, was he also given the cell phone number of the Deputy Governor?

Please, answer that question. Mr. Joseph Misati: Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, all my sons, including Dennis, have a relationship with the Deputy Governor.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, how you deal with your two minutes is your problem. If I can ask 20 questions in two minutes---

What I mean is that if we give Senators two minutes, then the witness will require 20 minutes.

If there is a problem with the witness answering the question, that is my problem.

Kindly ask your last question.

The last question is whether it is your evidence on record and on oath that your son Dennis has actually cooked up a story to malign a person whom he has no personal relationship with in the name and character of the Deputy Governor.

Mr. Joseph Misati: Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, according to what the Senator has said, I can also summarise what is going on.

My son was lured, intoxicated with some of the people with an aim to use him to fail the Deputy Governor. After I paid school fees, my son stayed at home for three or four days and a vehicle came to collect him. I do not know where they went with his wife and I cannot tell up to now.

Next is Sen. Chute.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I have two quick questions for Mr. Misati. Does he have any documentary evidence that shows that he has borrowed the money from the Deputy Govenor-Kshs600,000? Second, is there any contribution from his son –Dennis - in regards to the payment of Kshs600,000 paid to the Deputy Governor?

Witness, kindly respond. Mr. Joseph Misati: Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is usual for friends, unless that amount of money is a loan, in most cases. However, I do not have evidence because he gave me the money due to trust.

The second question. Mr. Joseph Misati: I have not understood the second question.

Give Sen. Chute the microphone kindly.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. This question is for the witness. If there are any contributions made from his son, Dennis, in regards to the payment of the Kshs600,000 paid through M-pesa to the Deputy Governor.

Proceed to answer.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. This question is for the witness. If there are any contributions made from his son, Dennis, in regards to the payment of the Kshs600,000 paid through M-pesa to the Deputy Governor.

Proceed to answer.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I was really looking forward to an explanation from the witness as to why it was necessary for the money that was sent from Dennis to be sent by him. The money went from the mother, to Dennis then to the Deputy Governor. If indeed, it was a debt it would have been sent directly either by him or the mother to the Deputy Governor. However, he has made a curious comment. That it was for his own financial management. I want him to clarify that for me. It does not make financial sense for money to move through those three stages incurring transfer charges. What do you mean by your own financial management? It was a direct transaction and you should have told your wife to send it to the Deputy Governor. I want to understand that explanation that you gave, Mr. Misati.

Mr. Joseph Misati: Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, allow me to go back. I had more than Kshs500,000 in my account. I was asked why I did not send money in full? This is why I mentioned that, I had--- my financial management, that if I move from here, the other bag is on the other side.

The money was not sent directly from my wife to the Deputy Governor’s M-pesa because she does not have the number of the Deputy Governor. This is why ---

Give the witness time to answer the question. Witness, you can continue answering.

Mr. Joseph Misati: Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, this is why---

Are you through with your answer? Are you done?

Mr. Joseph Misati: Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, this is why I instructed my wife to send the money to my son Dennis so that we could continue with the other processes.

Senator, you are in the queue. Do you have a follow-up question? Proceed.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I need clarification so that we do not lose that trail of thought. The witness says that the wife could not send the money to the Deputy Governor because she did not have the number.

I also recall that he said that Mr. Dennis did not have the number of the Deputy Governor. He had to send the number to Mr. Dennis. It was easy to send the number to Dennis but difficult to send it to the wife.

Sen. Methu, are you asking me or the witness?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I need clarification so that we do not lose that trail of thought. The witness says that the wife could not send the money to the Deputy Governor because she did not have the number.

I also recall that he said that Mr. Dennis did not have the number of the Deputy Governor. He had to send the number to Mr. Dennis. It was easy to send the number to Dennis but difficult to send it to the wife.

Sen. Methu, are you asking me or the witness?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have only one question. The witness went to visit the Deputy Governor with his sons. From the evidence, the sons sat far from where the Deputy Governor and the witness were conversing.

I want the witness to confirm to this House that there was no discussion about the support of the Deputy Governor to secure a job for Dennis.

Witness, proceed to answer the question from Sen. Cheptumo.

Mr. Joseph Misati: Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, kindly and humbly come again.

Sen. Cheptumo, frame your question in a way that he will understand faster.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, the question I want to ask the witness is that – yesterday, Dennis confirmed that he accompanied him to the Deputy Governor’s house. Today, the witness confirmed that he visited the Deputy Governor with his sons and that the sons were sitting from the Deputy Governor and himself.

Witness, kindly confirm to this House that you did not discuss anything about the support of the Deputy Governor to secure your son, Dennis, employment in the county government. Is that clear now? I believe so.

Mr. Joseph Misati: Very clear. In our social discussions, including the refund of the Kshs500,000 and requests like any other person that my son had applied for the job of being a commercial manager, I just conversed with the Deputy Governor about the same issue.

Proceed, Sen. Mwaruma.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, kindly and humbly come again.

Sen. Cheptumo, frame your question in a way that he will understand faster.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, the question I want to ask the witness is that – yesterday, Dennis confirmed that he accompanied him to the Deputy Governor’s house. Today, the witness confirmed that he visited the Deputy Governor with his sons and that the sons were sitting from the Deputy Governor and himself.

Witness, kindly confirm to this House that you did not discuss anything about the support of the Deputy Governor to secure your son, Dennis, employment in the county government. Is that clear now? I believe so.

Mr. Joseph Misati: Very clear. In our social discussions, including the refund of the Kshs500,000 and requests like any other person that my son had applied for the job of being a commercial manager, I just conversed with the Deputy Governor about the same issue.

Services, Senate.

Mr. Joseph Misati: Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Senator has said that yesterday, my son Dennis indicated that he has no familiarity with the Deputy Governor. Today, I have said that we are very familiar with the family of Dr. Monda. Therefore, by indicating that if we were familiar, why was it that I was seated far from my own sons as if there was something cooking?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to say, there are some things when you have got some discussions, you cannot include your sons and there was nothing that was cooking.

Okay. Proceed, Sen. Crystal Asige.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. My first question to the witness is, there is a lot of information that differs from the affidavit you gave under oath with the information that you are giving under oath today. So, my first question is, were you lying then or are you lying now?

My second question is, in the evidence you gave about the transaction on 28th May, you say that the reason your wife sent the money to your son is so that Dennis can run to an Mpesa point and withdraw because the Deputy Governor requested for cash.

Now, at the beginning of your testimony when you were being introduced, your counsel asked you to tell us what you do. You said that you own an Mpesa business.

My second question is, why would you say that your son did not find any Mpesa branches open to withdraw the cash and that is why he sent it through the phone when you own your own M-pesa business which you could have withdrawn from there through your son.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want the witness to agree with me that the Deputy Governor has higher financial capacity than he has for several years within their friendship. He has earned more than Mr. Joseph Misati.

My question is: Are you giving testimony that may differ from your affidavit and what you are saying today because you might be weary of the well running dry in terms of the financial favours that you receive from the Deputy Governor, through your long- term friendship. Thank you.

Services, Senate.

Mr. Joseph Misati: Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Senator has said that yesterday, my son Dennis indicated that he has no familiarity with the Deputy Governor. Today, I have said that we are very familiar with the family of Dr. Monda. Therefore, by indicating that if we were familiar, why was it that I was seated far from my own sons as if there was something cooking?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to say, there are some things when you have got some discussions, you cannot include your sons and there was nothing that was cooking.

Okay. Proceed, Sen. Crystal Asige.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. My first question to the witness is, there is a lot of information that differs from the affidavit you gave under oath with the information that you are giving under oath today. So, my first question is, were you lying then or are you lying now?

My second question is, in the evidence you gave about the transaction on 28th May, you say that the reason your wife sent the money to your son is so that Dennis can run to an Mpesa point and withdraw because the Deputy Governor requested for cash.

Now, at the beginning of your testimony when you were being introduced, your counsel asked you to tell us what you do. You said that you own an Mpesa business.

My second question is, why would you say that your son did not find any Mpesa branches open to withdraw the cash and that is why he sent it through the phone when you own your own M-pesa business which you could have withdrawn from there through your son.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want the witness to agree with me that the Deputy Governor has higher financial capacity than he has for several years within their friendship. He has earned more than Mr. Joseph Misati.

My question is: Are you giving testimony that may differ from your affidavit and what you are saying today because you might be weary of the well running dry in terms of the financial favours that you receive from the Deputy Governor, through your long- term friendship. Thank you.

Services, Senate. that the well will run dry in terms of financial favours that the Deputy Governor has afforded to the witness in the past.

Mr. Joseph Misati: Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. It will depend. It does not mean that when you are a Deputy Governor, you have a lot of money. Most people operate on loans. If there is any person I know that is struggling financially, then it is my friend, the Deputy Governor.

Next is Sen. Tabitha Mutinda.

Asante, Bw. Spika. Bw. Misati, Waswahili walisema, “ajuaye uchungu wa mwana ni mzazi.” Na waliimba wakasema, “mtoto sio nguo, utaomba mtu.” Niulize leo ndugu yangu, ni nini hicho kilichofanya mwanao, Dennis, ambaye ameishi miaka kumi na tatu Nairobi, auze biashara yake na akuletee zile fedha?

Swali la pili, katika ile biashara yako ya M-pesa, katika zile transactions inaonekana ya kwamba ulituma zile elfu mia mbili hamsini na moja kutumia simu yako ya rununu. Ni nini ilifanya zile pesa zilizobakia, zile elfu mia mbili arobaini na tisa, lazima zipeanwe katika kitita cha pesa taslimu?

Asante, Bw. Naibu Spika.

Services, Senate. that the well will run dry in terms of financial favours that the Deputy Governor has afforded to the witness in the past.

Mr. Joseph Misati: Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. It will depend. It does not mean that when you are a Deputy Governor, you have a lot of money. Most people operate on loans. If there is any person I know that is struggling financially, then it is my friend, the Deputy Governor.

Next is Sen. Tabitha Mutinda.

Asante, Bw. Spika. Bw. Misati, Waswahili walisema, “ajuaye uchungu wa mwana ni mzazi.” Na waliimba wakasema, “mtoto sio nguo, utaomba mtu.” Niulize leo ndugu yangu, ni nini hicho kilichofanya mwanao, Dennis, ambaye ameishi miaka kumi na tatu Nairobi, auze biashara yake na akuletee zile fedha?

Swali la pili, katika ile biashara yako ya M-pesa, katika zile transactions inaonekana ya kwamba ulituma zile elfu mia mbili hamsini na moja kutumia simu yako ya rununu. Ni nini ilifanya zile pesa zilizobakia, zile elfu mia mbili arobaini na tisa, lazima zipeanwe katika kitita cha pesa taslimu?

Asante, Bw. Naibu Spika.

Yes, Mr. Witness, proceed. Mr. Joseph Misati: Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Nafikiri umeelewa Kiswahili vizuri. Haya, jibu.

Mr. Joseph Misati: I have gotten the message. In the question of---Amesema ya kwamba, if I cannot translate that one, the person who knows the bitterness of the child ni mzazi.

I have indicated very clearly and stated earlier that my son has been away for more than 13 years. Even during that time, although there was rare communication, I used to send him some money for his upkeep, even if I do not have the documents to support that.

By saying that he sold his own salon as indicated; he had no salon.

Services, Senate.

Mr. Misati, maybe you can answer the second question.

Rephrase the question, please.

My second question was; the first transaction that you sent to the Deputy Governor was Kshs251,000 in M-pesa. How come, you had to give the Deputy Governor Kshs249,000 that your son had to run around to look for money to give cash yet, the first batch was given on M-pesa? What was wrong in still sending the Kshs249,000 via M-pesa?

You have said that politicians do not have money. Is it the case that your good friend was looking for money from you?

Mr. Joseph Misati: Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. In our discussions with the Deputy Governor, I told him that I have some money in my account. I remitted that money Kshs70,000 three times plus Kshs41,000 which came up to Kshs251,000. In our discussion, the Deputy Governor told me that he needs some cash. That is why I instructed my wife to send it to Dennis so that we can look at a way of how we can encash that money from any nearest M-pesa.

Services, Senate.

Mr. Misati, maybe you can answer the second question.

Rephrase the question, please.

My second question was; the first transaction that you sent to the Deputy Governor was Kshs251,000 in M-pesa. How come, you had to give the Deputy Governor Kshs249,000 that your son had to run around to look for money to give cash yet, the first batch was given on M-pesa? What was wrong in still sending the Kshs249,000 via M-pesa?

You have said that politicians do not have money. Is it the case that your good friend was looking for money from you?

Mr. Joseph Misati: Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. In our discussions with the Deputy Governor, I told him that I have some money in my account. I remitted that money Kshs70,000 three times plus Kshs41,000 which came up to Kshs251,000. In our discussion, the Deputy Governor told me that he needs some cash. That is why I instructed my wife to send it to Dennis so that we can look at a way of how we can encash that money from any nearest M-pesa.

Sen. Faki, you may have the Floor.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I refer the witness to page 65 of the DG’s bundle. I can see you transferred Kshs70,000, three times on the same 28th. You had a handsome balance in the account, why did you not transfer the whole Kshs500,000 that evening through your account?

Secondly, you said this debt which you were paying to Dr. Monda you borrowed the money in 2022. Is that not so? When was the last time you visited Dr. Monda before you went to his house on 28th May, 2023?

Services, Senate.

Mr. Joseph Misati: May I answer that question?

Let him, first, answer the question. Mr. Joseph Misati: That is a good question. I indicated clearly that after paying school fees for my granddaughter, things started changing from 6th to 13th January. I think I paid the school fees on the Monday following 6th.

After paying school fees, my son brought some shopping list amounting to Kshs13,000. I told him I could not raise Kshs13,000 then. I asked him to find out whether some of his brothers could assist him. I told him I will look for Kshs500 to buy essential items. Since books were needed, we could borrow some for my granddaughter, which I did on Monday.

After doing that, I told the person who brought me the books to take to my son’s house. After some time, he came back and told me he was sorry because his cousin had bought all the books. I wondered what had happened and where he got the money. After he took his daughter to school, he stayed for two days only. From 6th up to the time he disappeared, he seemed like someone who had a lot of money.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, you know when you have money, you change your style of walking and eating. I was surprised with where this young man got money from, only to find that the boy or my son---

Witness, you have answered the question. Mr. Joseph Misati: He disappeared and that is why I was unable - If he had come to me to tell what he was conspiring, we would have been on the same page.

Services, Senate.

Mr. Joseph Misati: May I answer that question?

Let him, first, answer the question. Mr. Joseph Misati: That is a good question. I indicated clearly that after paying school fees for my granddaughter, things started changing from 6th to 13th January. I think I paid the school fees on the Monday following 6th.

After paying school fees, my son brought some shopping list amounting to Kshs13,000. I told him I could not raise Kshs13,000 then. I asked him to find out whether some of his brothers could assist him. I told him I will look for Kshs500 to buy essential items. Since books were needed, we could borrow some for my granddaughter, which I did on Monday.

After doing that, I told the person who brought me the books to take to my son’s house. After some time, he came back and told me he was sorry because his cousin had bought all the books. I wondered what had happened and where he got the money. After he took his daughter to school, he stayed for two days only. From 6th up to the time he disappeared, he seemed like someone who had a lot of money.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, you know when you have money, you change your style of walking and eating. I was surprised with where this young man got money from, only to find that the boy or my son---

Witness, you have answered the question. Mr. Joseph Misati: He disappeared and that is why I was unable - If he had come to me to tell what he was conspiring, we would have been on the same page.

Services, Senate.

Sen. Osotsi.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to ask the witness about his affidavit that is on page 59 of the defence. It is stated that, “we asked each other of possible favours and this includes; favours like helping each other look out for jobs, educational opportunities and other social welfare openings, for especially, our children.” This reference of looking for jobs refers to which jobs? Can you tell the House which jobs you were looking for, for your children?

Yes, proceed. Mr. Joseph Misati: Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, like any other person who has taken his children to school and because of scarcity of employment, it is not a crime - although I am not a lawyer – to discuss social life like looking for jobs.

Secondly, you have seen educational opportunities. I can recall when my children were in high school and others in universities, the Deputy Governor and his wife attended one of my fundraising for the education of my children. I have answered that one.

Services, Senate.

Sen. Osotsi.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to ask the witness about his affidavit that is on page 59 of the defence. It is stated that, “we asked each other of possible favours and this includes; favours like helping each other look out for jobs, educational opportunities and other social welfare openings, for especially, our children.” This reference of looking for jobs refers to which jobs? Can you tell the House which jobs you were looking for, for your children?

Yes, proceed. Mr. Joseph Misati: Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, like any other person who has taken his children to school and because of scarcity of employment, it is not a crime - although I am not a lawyer – to discuss social life like looking for jobs.

Secondly, you have seen educational opportunities. I can recall when my children were in high school and others in universities, the Deputy Governor and his wife attended one of my fundraising for the education of my children. I have answered that one.

Sen. Cherarkey Samson.

Services, Senate. impeachment, that my son and I went to bribe the Deputy Governor but the opposite is the case.

I learned of the Kshs800,000 after impeachment. For the Kshs600,000 the Senator has indicated, the figure is there, but it is the money the Deputy Governor gave me and I am yet to refund.

That is okay. Hon. Senators and both teams from the Deputy Governor and the County Assembly of Kisii, we are breaking for lunch at this hour, 1.00 p.m. We will resume at exactly 2:30 p.m.

Last question? Mr. Joseph Misati: Hon. Senator, it is because of the language. I can just combine it to say that I sent the money for the love of my son and responsibility.

The third one on whether I am aware of any bribe, I have got the figure of Kshs600,000 and Kshs800,000. I only learned of these issues of bribery after the

Services, Senate. impeachment, that my son and I went to bribe the Deputy Governor but the opposite is the case.

I learned of the Kshs800,000 after impeachment. For the Kshs600,000 the Senator has indicated, the figure is there, but it is the money the Deputy Governor gave me and I am yet to refund.

That is okay. Hon. Senators and both teams from the Deputy Governor and the County Assembly of Kisii, we are breaking for lunch at this hour, 1.00 p.m. We will resume at exactly 2:30 p.m.

Hon. Senators, it is now 1.00 p.m. time to adjourn the Senate. The Senate, therefore, stands adjourned until today, Thursday 14th of March, 2024, at 2:30 p.m.

The Senate rose at 1.00 p.m.