Thursday, 14th March, 2024 Morning Sitting

Clerk, do we have quorum?

Serjeant-at-Arms, kindly ring the Quorum Bell for 10 minutes.

Serjeant-at-Arms, I am informed we now have a quorum. Kindly stop the bell.

Clerk, proceed to call out the first Order. Hon. Senators, kindly take your seats so that we proceed with today’s business.

the proposed removal from office, by impeachment, of Hon. (Dr.) Robert Monda, the Deputy Governor of Kisii County.

I, therefore, ruled that the witness be summoned and subsequently directed the Office of the Clerk of the Senate to immediately issue the summons and facilitate the appearance of Mr. Oyagi in the Senate today, Thursday, 14th March, 2024, at noon, to produce his appointment letter and confirm if the persons who are said to be working in the Deputy Governor’s home, are officials of the County Government of Kisii.

It has been indicated to me that the said witness is available this morning. I, therefore, wish to ask the Counsel for the County Assembly to confirm whether he is ready to present the witness. Are you ready to present the witness?

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Njiru): Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Hon. Members of the Senate, good morning? My name is Ndegwa Njiru. We continue to appear together with Mr. Mutuma, Mr. Ndegwa Mwangi, and Ms. Munyoki.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, if granted an opportunity by the Senate, we will present the witness.

Sen. Madzayo, you may walk in and take your seat.

Hon. Senators, that being the case, I wish to guide the Senate as follows–

Could you swear in the witness?

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: David, good morning?

Good morning, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: For the record, kindly state your name, where you work and your designation.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. My name is Mr. David Oyagi. I am the Acting Director of Enforcement, Kisii County Government.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: What are your roles as a Director of Enforcement?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, as the Acting Director of Enforcement, I supervise enforcement operations throughout the county. I am the overall commander of that unit of enforcement. I also ensure there is safety and protection of county properties and critical installations, among other duties.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: You are aware that you are here pursuant to the summons of the Senate?

Yes, I am aware. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: You are aware that you are also here to respond to issues that were raised with regard to the abuse of office in the impeachment of the Deputy Governor?

Yes, I am aware. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Have you had an opportunity to look at the issues that have been raised?

To some extent I have done. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Now, Mr. David, there were issues that were raised regarding the deployment of county enforcement officers on two issues. One, on the issue of the arrest of one Reuben Monda, the brother to the Deputy Governor, and also the issue of four enforcement officers who have been working or doing odd jobs at this home.

Now, if we begin with the first issue, the issue of the 20 enforcement officers who have been deployed, can you address the Senate on that issue kindly?

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I state before this Senate that the issue of mobilization and deployment of the 20 enforcement officers came to my knowledge on 29th February, 2024, when the Motion on the Impeachment of H.E the Deputy Governor of Kisii County was being led by at the County Assembly.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Did you take any step following your knowledge?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, after learning about that occurrence and being the officer in charge of that directorate and that my officers, or my office, has been implicated in the proceedings at the Assembly, I thought it was good to do a statement to the Assembly to clarify and shed more light on that occurrence.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Following your statement to the County Assembly, did you also take any step or do any preliminary investigations?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I initiated an investigation immediately. I did a letter to my Deputy Director who is in charge of sub counties,

instructing him to provide information to my office on what exactly transpired that day, and why he did not communicate to my office earlier enough as pertaining that incident.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Mwangi): Did you find out how and who deployed the said officers?

Following the report of my Deputy Director who went to the ground because I instructed him to go to the ground, he came and he wrote a report to me. He stated that the officers were mobilized and commandeered by the Sub-County Administrator of Nyaribari Chache and the Sub-County Enforcement Officer.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Was that commandeering of your officers within the knowledge of your office or the office of your deputy?

No. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Was it legal or lawful?

Procedure requires that the Office of the Director of Enforcement be informed of any occurrence. So, there was no communication made to me. Therefore, that was unlawful deployment.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Did you find the motivation for the Sub-County Commander to commandeer the deployment?

Yes, from the report of my Deputy in charge of sub- counties, the person who gave instructions to the Sub-County Administrator and the Sub- County Commander is H.E the Deputy Governor of Kisii County.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Is it your evidence or statement that the Deputy Governor directly commanded to deploy the said officers?

It is. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. David, there was a clip that was played yesterday. The clip in regard the arrest of Reuben Monda, if we could have it up kindly.

As we wait for that clip Mr. David, does the Deputy Governor have the right to command, of course, he is the Deputy Governor of Kisii County. Do you think or does he have the right to command the enforcement officers?

In civil service, there are procedures and protocols to be followed in any operation. H.E the Deputy Governor has no mandate to direct, command or give instructions directly to the enforcement officers.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: He has to follow the procedures?

He has to follow the procedures. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Now, do you have those correspondences of the communication that you sought clarification from your deputy and his response with you?

Yes, I have.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Ndegwa Mwangi): Would you mind supplying them to the Senate for them to look at them?

I can, but I do not have enough copies. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: All right, the arrangements will be made.

Now, kindly play the clip. That clip Bw. David, it was introduced yesterday by one Reuben Monda.

Kindly, pause there. We want to see the police vehicle. There, thank you. In that vehicle, are you able to identify the person who is seated at the rear left side?

Yes, of course. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: How are you able to identify him?

The person on the rear left side of the vehicle is wearing county enforcement uniform for the County Government of Kisii and that is my officer by the name Alfred Monda. This is the Deputy Sub-County Commander of Nyaribari Chache Sub-County.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Now, this is during the arrest of Deputy Governor’s brother. Do those officers or rather, did Keumbu have the capacity to have 20 officers around for purposes of being deployed to such an occasion?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, my records and my strength at Keumbu is 22 enforcement officers.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: How many?

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Did you confirm that is one of your officers?

That is my enforcement officer. I confirm. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Now, we move on to the next issue Bw. David. The issue of the four officers who are mentioned to have been working and doing odd jobs at his residence, what do you have to say, Bwana David?

The issue of the four enforcement officers working at the home of H.E the Deputy Governor; I am aware of it and it came to my attention much earlier even before the motion before the County Assembly. I state that there is no official document towards sanctioning that deployment in my office.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Is the Deputy Governor entitled to any county officers to work under him?

There is no provision.

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Are those personal staff part of county enforcement officers?

No. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: There are two separate people. There are those who were employed by the county as personal staff who work under him.

Yes, hon. Speaker. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Are those the people we are talking to before this?

We are talking about the four enforcement officers. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Who are separate to the personal staff?

Who are separate to the personal staff. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Is it legal for him also to deploy? If so, is there a scope of work that they should be engaged in?

Enforcement officers have clear job descriptions and their role is entirely the provision of security.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Bwana David, before I cede my few minutes to my colleague, Mr. Mutuma, I want to make reference to the County Government document.

Hon. Members, I am referring to the bundle for County Government, Volume 1 at page 313.

That is a statement that you did to the County Assembly, Bw. David Haggai. Correct?

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: You stated that it came to your knowledge during the impeachment.

Yes, I confirm. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: I just want you to clear the air, why it came to your knowledge during the impeachment.

As usual, any other operations concerning enforcement officers, the officers need to report to my office. We have a WhatApp wall, where all other occurrences are recorded. However, pertaining to this incident of 23rd December, I want to state that there was no information to my office, and that is not usual.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Thank you. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I also request that we play the video where the witness who left yesterday

evening, Mr. Rueben Monda, was addressing the media, kindly. Just the very few first seconds of that video. This video is in the Ekegusii language.

I do. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: What is your understanding of the statement that has been made by the reporter?

The reporter is talking about trees. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: What else?

The conflict between him and his brother. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Does he mention the issue of county officers?

Can we replay it? The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Kindly replay the clip.

Kindly, pause. What is your understanding of that video, Bwana Director?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I can see the first person and there is a reporter. The person on television is not talking about enforcement officers or county staff. The person who is talking about enforcement officers is the narrator of the story. However, the complainant is complaining about his arrest using police and enforcement officers.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Thank you, Bw. David. This clip was interpreted yesterday. I invite the House to also have a look at it independently.

I cede my few minutes to Mr. Mutuma to guide you through. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Just hold on counsel. What is your intervention, Sen. Kathuri?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, because I am participating in this quasi-judicial court as a judge, yesterday, we were privileged to get a very good interpreter who was neutral. He interpreted the language nicely.

I am not aware why he is not available today. I want to trust an independent and professional interpreter who can give us the right message so that as we make our determination, we can understand what was spoken in Ekegusii language.

Very well.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): Mr. Speaker, Sir, if I may, our worry was that---

The Speaker (Hon. Kingi): Just pause there, counsel. We would wish to be guided by an independent interpreter on the content of that video, not to the understanding of your witness.

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Our worry was that the interpreter, the very specific one who came yesterday, misrepresented the version. If we can have a different one, that would be most obliged, because we seem to be having two different versions of the same story.

I am informed we had two interpreters yesterday. Can we have the second one to interpret this video for the hon. Senators, please? Then, your witness can put it in context.

Counsel, let me just get you correctly. Are you saying that the interpreter who interpreted this video yesterday, did not interpret it correctly?

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Indeed, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

According to who? The Counsel for the County Assembly

: According to the people well-versed with the Ekegusii language, that was the indication. Perhaps we can hear from another source if they will stick to the very version of the other interpreter.

Counsel, allow the video to play and then let us get the interpretation. Yes, Counsel for Deputy Governor.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. We have an objection to that. Our objection is in the sense that we will be going in circles. You will recall that the interpreter did an interpretation initially. Objections were raised by Members of this Senate saying that that interpretation was not correct. The interpreter was then given a second chance to interpret and the whole process went to the end.

The hon. Members who had raised an objection and who understood Kisii did not raise an objection neither did the counsels for the County Assembly. Now, to ask for the third time for an interpretation will not be designed to get the proper interpretation, but designed to get the interpretation that the county Assembly counsel want. It is not intended to know the exact position, but rather their position.

For that reason, we contend on our part that the interpretation has been adequately supplied. There is no point in wasting and spending time in hunting out for the type of interpretation that the county counsel want.

Very well. Counsel for the County Assembly, there was an interpreter who did interpretation yesterday. Is that correct?

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Indeed, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Therefore, as the team from the County Assembly, you were adequately covered in terms of the interpretation that was done yesterday?

Therefore, as the team from the County Assembly, you were adequately covered in terms of the interpretation that was done yesterday?

Counsel for the County Assembly? The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

We cannot have several versions of the interpretation. An interpreter is an interpreter. If this video was given its true interpretation yesterday, the matter rests.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Most obliged, Mr. Speaker, Sir. However, I would urge you once you retreat to consider this matter in camera, you can have your own consideration based on Senators who are well versed with the language. I stand guided.

Good, then just proceed with your witness. We do not have to hear another version of Gusii language. Gusii language is one.

Sen. Onyonka, Gusii language is one, or do we have several versions of Gusii language?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, Gusii language is one. The interpretation that was given made me understand. I did not see any contradiction and I was not misguided.

Proceed with your witness. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. Haggai, do you have any personal interest---

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am not sure whether I can be heard.

Clerk, kindly power the counsel’s microphone. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Mr. Haggai--- I still feel it is quite low. Mr. Witness, do you have any personal or ulterior interest in these proceedings?

No. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Have you been coerced, influenced or persuaded to take a certain stand towards the deployment of the officers that you are alleging were deployed on 20th December?

Not at all. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: When did you receive the summons from Senate?

I received the summons yesterday. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: What mode?

They were served to me.

They were served to me.

By the server of the Court, he called me. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: When did you travel from Kisii to Nairobi?

I travelled tonight. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Thank you. You have told the Senators that the information about the deployment of the 20 officers came to your knowledge on 29th February, 2024. The event itself---

Sorry, Counsel. There is an initial question that you have not understood clearly. Can you repeat the question about the travelling? Do you mean travelling from where I stay or from Kisii?

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: From wherever you were to Senate.

I travelled today morning from where I reside. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: You have indicated that the information about the deployment of the 20 officers to the Deputy Governor’s home to arrest his brother came to your knowledge on 29th February, 2024, correct?

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: The event itself took place on 20th December, 2023. That is two months apart.

Correct. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Now, as the Head of this Department, how is it that 20 officers would be deployed, taken from your Department to a private assignment without your knowledge? Does that not mean that you are inept, you are not in charge of this Department?

Not at all. You see, this is an occurrence which is happening at the home of the Deputy Governor. I learnt about it at the County Assembly when the Motion was being tabled. That is the first time I heard about it.

As I said earlier, this is unusual because all operations of enforcement need to be reported to my office. That is why I tasked my deputy to investigate this incident and report to me. In the report that the deputy gave me, he said, the reason the sub-county administrator and commander did not report is not very clear and they have initiated disciplinary procedures against those officers.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: So, is it an issue of lack of diligence or competence from your part or there was deliberate effort to conceal that occurrence?

I believe there could be deliberate effort to block us from getting the information.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Thank you. You have also indicated that you have conducted preliminary investigations and there is a preliminary report to that effect.

Yes.

Yes.

I can confirm that the four officers are there and they work on a regular basis. After two weeks, they are replaced and they are deployed from-- -

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Are you able to tell us the names of those officers?

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Kindly go ahead.

All of them? The Counsel for the County Assembly

: The four officers.

I have said, the sub-county has 22 enforcement officers. The duty roster is usually done after a period of one or two weeks. So, they keep on rotating.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Are you able to tell the names or not?

For now I cannot because investigation is underway. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Are you able to identify the 20 officers apart from the commander?

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Are you able to supply the names?

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Are you able to supply the names now?

Not now because they are not typed. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Do you have their names?

I have the names. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Thank you. Mr. Speaker, Sir, that is all for this witness.

Counsel for the Deputy Governor, your witness. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Mr. Speaker, Sir, a preliminary issue; we have not been served with this report that is being referred to by this witness. If we can get a copy.

Counsel for the County Assembly, can you make available the copy of the report you are referring to?

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. Speaker, Sir, with your guidance, we do have the reports. We are also seeing them for the very first time. However, we are obliged to serve our colleagues and later make arrangements to supply it to the House.

Counsel for the County Assembly, can you make available the copy of the report you are referring to?

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. Speaker, Sir, with your guidance, we do have the reports. We are also seeing them for the very first time. However, we are obliged to serve our colleagues and later make arrangements to supply it to the House.

I am the Head of Enforcement and Compliance. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: In an acting capacity or permanently employed?

I am serving in an acting capacity. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Under whose pleasure do you serve?

I serve the County Government of Kisii, not an individual.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Who leads it?

The County Government of Kisii is led by His Excellency the Governor.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: So you serve at the Governor's pleasure.

I serve the County Government of Kisii. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: I will refer you to the two reports. Are they three or two reports?

They should be three.

Proceed. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Do you have the letter of the 1st March, 2024?

I only had that copy, but you can proceed. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: In that copy, do you indicate the officers who were mobilized and deployed to the Governor's house?

At that time, it was an allegation. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: No. Do you indicate who these officers are? Are their names indicated?

I did not indicate the names, but I gave--- The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: This is a simple question. Did you indicate their names?

No. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Okay. Yes, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale.

Counsel, you are not addressing individual Senators. Kindly cross-examine the witness.

Counsel, you are not addressing individual Senators. Kindly cross-examine the witness.

It does not indicate, but it indicates that the officers are those who were attached to the Nyaribari Chache Sub-County.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Does that letter indicate that?

It does not indicate the names of the officers. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Does it indicate their current mobilisation or location?

I believe it does. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Please refer to the same and show us where it does that.

The author of this letter says- "Indeed, on 20th December, 2023, our enforcement officers, about 20, were mobilized and deployed to His Excellency the Deputy Governor's home, led by the Sub- County Administrator."

The Sub-County Administrator is for Nyaribari Chache Sub-County. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Yes, but does it say that 20 officers were actually from his unit? Does it say that?

The officer who was doing this letter--- The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: It is a simple question. Does it say that, yes or no?

He is in charge of sub counties. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Does it say these officers are from his sub-county? That is the question. Nothing more.

Hon. Speaker, Sir, the author of this letter is not---

Witness, these are very simple questions that attract either yes or no. Let us proceed so that we do not waste time.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am well guided. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Let us go to the last report. This is the one you have made. So, from that letter, is that a yes or no? Does it indicate where they are deployed?

No, it does not. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Okay. Let us go to the report of 8th March. Does it indicate the officers?

It does not indicate the names of the officers. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Does it indicate the name of the officers who are deployed on the 20th December?

It does not. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Does it indicate the names of the officers who have been deployed at the Deputy Governor's house, as you allege?

It does not. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Does it indicate the names of the officers who have been deployed at the Deputy Governor's house, as you allege?

The House is able to know because--- The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Is there a way to identify them from your reports?

I can supply the names. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: No, as we stand here, is there a way to identify them?

No. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Okay. Let us move to the issue of the four officers who were deployed at the Deputy Governor’s house. Your testimony was that you learnt of this before the impeachment proceedings.

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Were these officers sent or deployed there by yourself?

I said they were not officially deployed because there is no official document in our records.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: So, are these officers deployed to another place? Are they assigned another duty in the county?

What I meant is that the officers are taken to do a distinct---

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: In your department, are there officers who are not assigned to specific duties?

All officers are assigned specific duties and with letters?

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: So, these four officers have been assigned duties elsewhere and they are not doing those duties but have moved to the Deputy Governor’s. Is that is your evidence?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to state that the deployment must be documented.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: However, you are saying they are not deployed to the Deputy Governor’s.

They are deployed with no documentation. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: What do you mean that they are deployed without documentation?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, when deployment is done, there has to be an official deployment letter.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Okay. As their supervisor, have you taken any disciplinary action against these people who have been deployed with no letters?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, when deployment is done, there has to be an official deployment letter.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Okay. As their supervisor, have you taken any disciplinary action against these people who have been deployed with no letters?

No. Mr. Speaker, Sir. It is not. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: In reference to the allegations of the deployment of 20 officers on the 20th December, you have said that you only learnt about it on the 29th February.

Exactly. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Before that, were you aware of the Motion to impeach the Deputy Governor?

I learnt about the Motion after following the proceedings of the Assembly.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Before that, you did not know that there was a Motion going on at Assembly?

I did not know. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Did you hear about any public participation with regard to the charges that were facing the Deputy Governor?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I do not work at the Assembly. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: No. I am asking, did you hear about it as a person living and working in Kisii County?

I heard there was a public participation, but I did not bother to ask what it was about.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Even when it allegedly involved 20 of your officers?

I learnt about 20 of the officers at the Assembly. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Okay. Thank you, Mr. Oyagi. I will cede my remaining time to Senior Counsel, Mr. Katwa Kigen.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Good morning, Mr. Oyagi.

Good morning. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: It is your testimony to this Senate that where you stand, both the officers who went, the 20 and the ones who were deployed, were not properly designated to do those respective things from your record.

They did. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Okay. For purposes of making that contention to this Senate, you referred to a certain record, is that not so?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: What was that record?

The report that I got from my Deputy.

The report that I got from my Deputy.

You know the procedure of deployment--- The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Just answer. Do you have a record of your deployments? Let me ask it like that.

The record is not there. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You do not have any record showing deployments?

Nothing like that because they were not properly deployed.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Do you have a record of all your enforcement officers?

Yes, I have. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Have you annexed it to any of your documents?

Right now, no. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: So, you do not have the record of the totality of your officers. Are those officers designated to do certain duties?

Enforcement officers are supposed to do enforcement duties.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Just answer my question. Is the total population of the enforcement officers in your portfolio assigned duties?

They are assigned duties.

Yes, there is. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: It is true that you have not brought that to the Senate?

The summons--- The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Please answer my question. For purposes of saying 20 people went to the Governor’s brother’s house and that there are people working at the Deputy Governor’s house that were not meant to be there. Have you brought the deployment records showing where those people were supposed to have been deployed?

No. Mr. Speaker, Sir. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You said that one of the criteria that you used to come and testify to this Senate is that there were no letters of deployment. Is that so?

They were not officially deployed.

They were not officially deployed.

Yes. About the officers.

No. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Do you have a Human Resource

(HR)

Manual at the County Assembly?

Yes. Mr. Speaker, Sir. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You have not given us that manual, have you?

No. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Who are the enforcement officers answerable to?

Enforcement officers are answerable to me as the head of enforcement.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: That is what the HR manual says that they are answerable to you?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: In the body of that manual, is there anywhere, which designates the Deputy Governor as one of the people to whom they are answerable to?

No. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Lastly, you say that you have come here to tell us what the sub-county ward administrator told you. Is that it?

He is my deputy in charge of sub-counties. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: That is not the question I have asked you. I have asked you, as you stand here, your testimony to this Senate is what the sub-county ward administrator told you.

No. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: It is based on?

On my deputy who is in charge of sub-counties. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: How did he get that information again?

On my deputy who is in charge of sub-counties. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: How did he get that information again?

He communicated to the sub-county administrator and not the Ward Administrator.

He communicated to the sub-county administrator and not the Ward Administrator.

Yes, but he failed to report. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: That is not what I have asked you. I am saying that is the person who would have told this Senate directly that I know for a fact, that there are four people working there who are not designated to work there and there are 20 people who went to the Deputy Governor’s house. That is the person who would say that, from personal knowledge.

Yes, but he failed to report. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: That is not what I have asked you. I am saying that is the person who would have told this Senate directly that I know for a fact, that there are four people working there who are not designated to work there and there are 20 people who went to the Deputy Governor’s house. That is the person who would say that, from personal knowledge.

There is a sub-county commander who reports to me. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Okay. So, who is the most immediate person to the vicinity of the house of the Deputy Governor and who would know which people went to his house?

The sub-county enforcement commander.

The sub-county commander reports to me. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: On the question of the witness, that would have been the best witness for the Senate to know whether what you are saying is true or not. You are telling us what you were told and it is not what you know.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am in charge of the Directorate of Enforcement.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: What you are telling this Senate is what the sub-county enforcement commander told you?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: I know my colleague, Mr. Mutuma asked you whether you came here under coercion or whether you were threatened and so forth. Why was it necessary to be careful about that and they take precaution that you do not been seen as a weaponized witness?

I am in charge of--- The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: I am just asking why are you defensive when nobody has made any accusation against you? Why is there that defensive sense that you might have been a weaponized witness?

I am in charge of--- The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: I am just asking why are you defensive when nobody has made any accusation against you? Why is there that defensive sense that you might have been a weaponized witness?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I came here as the in-charge of Enforcement and Compliance.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Why did the person who knows not come?

I take responsibility as the in-charge. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: I put it to you that it is because you are more malleable and that you have been acting for forever and you are hoping that by giving this testimony, you will graduate into a confirmed position.

That is not true. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: As we speak today- --

Mr. Speaker, Sir, can I have three minutes, then I will be done.

Very well counsel, conclude in the next three minutes.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

As we speak today, do you know where all the population of your enforcement officers are?

Yes, I know. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Since when?

This morning. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: So, before that, when you are acting and were deputy, you did not know where your people were, including the 20 that went to arrest and the four that were at the Deputy Governor’s?

You asked as I am standing here. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Before that, did you know?

I know. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Did you know?

I know. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: I am not asking about today. We are talking about your testimony saying that there are four people in the Deputy Governor’s place you did not know about.

I know about the four and I said here that I complained to my boss.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: When, after the Impeachment Motion?

I know about the four and I said here that I complained to my boss.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: When, after the Impeachment Motion?

No, but I can provide evidence. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Lastly, did you say that the Deputy Governor is not entitled to be designated any staff to assist him? Is that your position?

I talked about the enforcement officers. There are no provisions.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: I will ask you again. Is the Deputy Governor entitled to some staff at the expense of the county?

I know that they are entitled but not enforcement officers.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Okay. As you testify today, do you have anything to tell this Senate that indeed the people who were designated to serve the Deputy Governor, are this and this, and instead of those ones, these ones went?

Do you have anything to show that there is a variance between the people intended vis-a-vis the people who are actually there?

I could not be having the evidence--- The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Just answer my questions directly. Do you have any document to say that Haggai was supposed to be there but instead of Haggai, it is someone else?

No. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You do not have anything, but you agree that he is entitled to support staff?

Yes. He is. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Mr. Speaker, Sir, thank you for the indulgence. Thank you too, Mr. Haggai.

Counsel for the County Assembly, any re- examination?

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. Speaker, Sir, I will be very brief.

David, you have been asked whether, you have identified the personal staff of the Deputy Governor and your enforcement officers. The question is, are personal staff of the Deputy Governor under your direct control?

No. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Are you here speaking about his personal staff or your own staff?

I came to talk about enforcement officers. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: You have also been asked whether you have brought the documents complaining about the four officers about the report that you forwarded to your boss. Correct?

I came to talk about enforcement officers. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: You have also been asked whether you have brought the documents complaining about the four officers about the report that you forwarded to your boss. Correct?

The complaint about the four officers was done immediately I resumed office.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Was it done before the impeachment?

It was done before the impeachment. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: You have also been asked whether it is you who ought to have come here or it was your Deputy Director at the sub-county level. The question is, who complained at the County Assembly level?

I raised the complaint. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Are you the author of the statement at the County Assembly level?

I am. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Is it pursuant to that statement that you were summoned?

That is true. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: You have also been asked about whether you have brought documents or records on deployment of 20 enforcement officers and employment letters for your officers. When did you receive the summons?

I received the summons yesterday. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: When you did, to your understanding, what were you coming to speak to?

I was coming to talk about deployment of enforcement officers.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: If you had enough time, would you supply those documents?

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: You have also been asked whether you have done investigations correctly. Is that correct?

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: The question is; what did the preliminary investigation report reveal to you to the extent that you are not able to mention the names of four officers among the 20 enforcement officers?

The preliminary report indicates that it is true that 20 enforcement officers were mobilised and deployed to execute an operation. About the four---

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Are the investigations complete?

The investigations are ongoing.

The investigations are ongoing.

I am able to reveal the names of all enforcement officers attached to Nyaribari Chache Sub County.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: My question is; while investigations are ongoing, would you compromise the investigations by revealing the names of the officers at this point?

No. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: I believe you are a permanent and pensionable employee of the county government. Correct?

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: So, who is your employer?

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: So, who is your employer?

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: So, do you serve under the mercy of the Governor?

No, I serve the County Government of Kisii. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: You have also been asked about the person who deployed the 20 enforcement officers. Who did you correctly put as?

The sub-county administrator and sub-county commander.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Does the sub- county administrator have the mandate to deploy?

No. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Is that the reason even your own deputy did not have the knowledge of it?

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. Speaker, Sir, that is all. I cede the witness to Members.

Thank you. The witness may retire. Now, we are going to hear the case of the Deputy---

Sen. Crystal Asige, what is your intervention?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I just have a point of clarification and hope that you can guide. It is with regard to the summons letter that was sent after your directive yesterday, through the Clerk’s Office, for the witness to appear before us.

I would like to know whether the summons indicated or outlined the documentation and material evidence that this witness was required to appear with here this morning and if he was to bring 67 copies for each Senator, so that we understand what was required of him to bring when appearing before us.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I just have a point of clarification and hope that you can guide. It is with regard to the summons letter that was sent after your directive yesterday, through the Clerk’s Office, for the witness to appear before us.

I would like to know whether the summons indicated or outlined the documentation and material evidence that this witness was required to appear with here this morning and if he was to bring 67 copies for each Senator, so that we understand what was required of him to bring when appearing before us.

Just a quick one to the witness. Acting Deputy Director, I have three questions only. First, when were these four officers deployed at the Deputy Governor’s office? You said 20 were sent to assist in the arrest, but in your letter, you have said that they were illegally sent there. When was that? Do you have those facts?

Secondly, you have said in your report--- Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am trying to be quick. The Acting Director, Enforcement and Compliance has said that some enforcement officers doing manual work at the Deputy Governor’s home is a matter under investigation. Are you aware of what the four officers were doing?

Finally, as the Acting Director, Enforcement and Compliance, have you ever visited the Deputy Governor’s home to check what your officers are doing there? How long have you been acting in that position?

Witness, proceed to respond.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I said about four enforcement officers. I learned immediately I resumed office on 11th August, 2023. I have hitherto complained in writing. Regarding the 20 enforcement officers, it came to my knowledge when the Motion was being discussed at the County Assembly.

The issue of enforcement officers doing manual job as reported by my Deputy Director in charge of sub-counties is a matter under investigation. Once investigations are complete, I shall report to the Chief Officer (CO) in charge of my department.

Regarding visiting the home of the Deputy Governor, I visited once immediately I assumed office. That is the time I realised that four enforcement officers were deployed there without any documentation. I have complained about it.

Concerning how long I have acted, this is the seventh month since 11th August,

Sen. Chute, do you have any question or clarification?

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for the opportunity. I have two questions to the witness. How long have you been acting as Director? Secondly, who is supposed to take responsibility for the four officers who were deployed to the Deputy Governor’s house? Is it the Deputy Governor or your office?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I was appointed as Acting Director of Enforcement and Compliance on 11th August, 2023. That means I have been acting for the past seven months. I take the responsibility for the four enforcement officers who are working at the Deputy Governor’s home without official deployment. I have said before this Senate that immediately after I learnt about this development, I wrote a complaint letter to the CO in charge asking him to take it up.

Sen. Wambua, what is your clarification?

Sen. Wambua, what is your clarification?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I learned about the deployment of the 20 officers at the Assembly when the Motion of impeachment was being discussed. Upon learning that, as an officer who is in charge of that directorate, I felt that my department was implicated and I thought that it was prudent to take a statement and shed more light on that incident. That is on the 29th February, 2024.

The following day was the first of March. That is when I wrote a letter to my Deputy Director in charge of Sub Counties instructing him to start investigations and report to my office what transpired on that date of 29th December, 2023 explaining to me why this information did not reach our office.

On the 4th of March, my Deputy wrote to me after undertaking preliminary investigations and confirmed to me that, indeed, the 20 enforcement officers were mobilised and they assisted in the arrest of our Deputy Governor’s brother at his home in Keumbu.

Why it took so long is the question that all of us need to understand. This incident is happening at the home of the Deputy Governor. My sub-county commander and the sub-county administrator are involved in this arrangement. The reason why they did not report to me, as usual, is an issue that requires further investigations and disciplinary action taken against them.

I have recommended in my letter if you can see; the letter dated 8th March, 2024 to the Chief Officer (CO) . In the last part paragraph, “The sub- county administrator and sub-county commander failed to report to our office as required of them.” Reason? Well known to them. I have forwarded to the CO for further action.

Sen. Mandago?

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I would like to ask the witness, one, who is in charge of civil servants at the sub-county level? Two, what position did you serve before being appointed Acting Director for Enforcement?

At the sub-county level, the person who is in charge of enforcement officers is the sub-county enforcement commander who reports also to the sub-county administrator. The sub-county commander reports to my office directly on matters of enforcement.

On the position I held before I became the Acting Director of Enforcement, I have been the Deputy Director of Enforcement in charge of Kisii Municipality.

Now, with regard to the issues raised by Sen. Crystal Asige, I will read the summons so that you may appreciate the contents of the summons -

Now, with regard to the issues raised by Sen. Crystal Asige, I will read the summons so that you may appreciate the contents of the summons -

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker, Sir for giving us that clarification. Yes, you mentioned the two items that he was required for and with. One is his appointment letter as I have heard correctly and to confirm about the officers that have been spoken about here.

Thank you, very much.

Sen. Kavindu Muthama. Sen. Kavindu Muthama: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. When the witness was answering the question he was asked by Sen. Wambua, he contradicted himself because when the lawyer was asking him questions, he said that he is aware of where his officers are all the time and every day. However, on this particular one he said that he was not aware until when at the County Assembly. Can he clarify that?

Proceed witness?

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. It is true, I am aware, all the time, of where my enforcement officers are. However, in this particular case, is unusual, whereby enforcement officers are mobilized, deployed and go to effect an arrest, without any report to my office.

That is why, when I learned of this, I took the action of instructing my deputy to explain this lapse of not reporting to my office.

The report that my deputy gave was that the sub-county administrator and the sub-county commander who were in charge of this operation failed to report. Reason? Well known to them, and I have advised that action be taken against them.

Sen. Kathuri, you may proceed

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Mine are just two simple questions. I want the witness to go on record.

Mr. Witness, under whose command are the enforcement officers in the Kisii County Government? Second, does the Deputy Governor have any mandate on the deployment of these enforcement officers?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the county enforcement officers of the County Government of Kisii are under the command of the Director of Enforcement. Whether the Deputy Governor has the right to command enforcement officers, it is no.

Sen. Kathuri: What is the Specific name of the Director?

Proceed Mr. Witness.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the county enforcement officers of the County Government of Kisii are under the command of the Director of Enforcement. Whether the Deputy Governor has the right to command enforcement officers, it is no.

Senator Wamatinga.

What is the Specific name of the Director? Proceed Mr. Witness.

proceed, Mr. witness.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, before I resumed the Office of the Director of Enforcement as the Acting Director, I was the Deputy Director, but in charge of the Municipality.

About the deployment and how we react, normally, in these operations, if there is an incident happening at the sub-county level, the person who is in charge of those officers is the sub-county enforcement commander, who reports to the Director's Office directly through the Deputy Director of Enforcement in charge of sub-counties.

Once the office is aware, we take charge of that activity and monitor closely so that we can report accordingly.

Sen. Maanzo, you may proceed

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Did you direct or sanction this activity, whereby there was an arrest conducted by 20 officers?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, this incident happened on 29th December 2023. I did not sanction. I was not aware of it. As I have said in this House, I learned it at the County Assembly. It came to my knowledge that one of the reasons the Hon. Deputy Governor was being engaged in deployment of enforcement officers to arrest his brother.

Sen. Boni.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. My clarification arises from the assertion by the Counsel for the Deputy Governor that the witness serves at the pleasure of the Governor of Kisii County.

Section 35 of the County Governments Act gives the Governor the responsibility to form and appoint, with the approval of the County Assembly, the County Executive Committee.

The same Act in Section 59, gives the power of appointment of the rest of the staff to the County Public Service Board, which appointed the witness.

In view of this provision, is the counsel of the defendant going to be magnanimous enough to come and rescind that statement so that it is not in the record that this witness serves at the pleasure of the Governor of Kisii County and that he is appearing this morning purely to canvass to be confirmed in his acting capacity?

Counsel for the Deputy Governor, please proceed The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Mr. Speaker, Sir, the question and the fact that the witness acts in an acting capacity was the reason for the

Sen. Boni.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. My clarification arises from the assertion by the Counsel for the Deputy Governor that the witness serves at the pleasure of the Governor of Kisii County.

Section 35 of the County Governments Act gives the Governor the responsibility to form and appoint, with the approval of the County Assembly, the County Executive Committee.

The same Act in Section 59, gives the power of appointment of the rest of the staff to the County Public Service Board, which appointed the witness.

In view of this provision, is the counsel of the defendant going to be magnanimous enough to come and rescind that statement so that it is not in the record that this witness serves at the pleasure of the Governor of Kisii County and that he is appearing this morning purely to canvass to be confirmed in his acting capacity?

Counsel for the Deputy Governor, please proceed The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Mr. Speaker, Sir, the question and the fact that the witness acts in an acting capacity was the reason for the

contention that he acted not at the direction, but at the pleasure of the Governor, who will ultimately, following directions from the County Public Service Board, be responsible ultimately to his final substantive appointment.

Very well. We will allow the witness to retire and now proceed with the defence of the Deputy Governor. Counsel for Deputy Governor, it is now your time.

Counsel let us then agree this way, that: Your examination, evidence-in-chief you will do 30 minutes, the cross examination will take 15 minutes and re-examination 10 minutes.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. Speaker, Sir, if you allow me because you have given directions as to cross examination, yesterday when we were dealing with the crucial witness, my learned senior Mr. Katwa, took approximately one hour and 20 minutes with the key witness.

It is already running.

Counsel, we have just had this witness who has just retired. If we can be able to adopt the time indication as we have observed with the witness it would be a good guiding principle. The examination took 20 minutes, cross examination took 15 minutes and re-examination 10 minutes.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: This witness is fairly substantive; I intend to take 30 minutes but I will manage my time---

Counsel let us then agree this way, that: Your examination, evidence-in-chief you will do 30 minutes, the cross examination will take 15 minutes and re-examination 10 minutes.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. Speaker, Sir, if you allow me because you have given directions as to cross examination, yesterday when we were dealing with the crucial witness, my learned senior Mr. Katwa, took approximately one hour and 20 minutes with the key witness.

The counsel for the County Assembly was alleging the presence of a stranger in the representation.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Mr. Speaker, Sir, may I explain?

Counsel for the County Assembly are you now comfortable?

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: To the best of our remembrance Mr. Katwa Kigen did indicate his appearance yesterday. Therefore, we expect and anticipate that the same shall not be adjusted to suit his circumstances.

Counsel proceed.

was ushered into the Chamber)

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: We proceed directly. You have already given your full names. What do you do for a living?

I am a retired civil servant. I run some small businesses and have some dairy cows for a living.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Your son said that you also run an M-Pesa business.

Yes that is why I have said I have some small businesses, including M-pesa.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: I have just asked so that the Senate has the benefit of understanding you. How old are you if you do not mind?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am 68 years old.

I am a retired civil servant. I run some small businesses and have some dairy cows for a living.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Your son said that you also run an M-Pesa business.

Yes that is why I have said I have some small businesses, including M-pesa.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: I have just asked so that the Senate has the benefit of understanding you. How old are you if you do not mind?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am 68 years old.

Correct. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Dennis who was a witness yesterday is your son. Is it true?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: I would like you to be shown the Deputy Governor’s defense page 59-62. Do you have it? Could you confirm that is the statement that you made in respect to this case?

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Do you know Dr. Monda?

Very well. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: How do you know him?

His Excellency the Deputy Governor of Kisii County, Dr. Robert Onsare Monda and I have known each other for more than 32 years.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You have been friends for over 32 years. Apart from being friends, have you stated in your affidavit that you worked together at various points in your civil service tenure?

Yes Mr. Speaker, Sir. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: I would like to move on because of time. Before we go into details, you know what Dr. Monda, your friend, has been accused of, that he received a bribe from your son and that he also threatened your son. Are you aware of those allegations?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You also heard what your son said in testimony?

Yes Mr. Speaker, Sir. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Let us start with the first thing that your son admitted. Is it true that he did - throughout the issues that this Senate is going to consider - whenever your son needed anything he would tell you and then you would tell the Deputy Governor?

Yes Mr. Speaker, Sir. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: I would like to move on because of time. Before we go into details, you know what Dr. Monda, your friend, has been accused of, that he received a bribe from your son and that he also threatened your son. Are you aware of those allegations?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You also heard what your son said in testimony?

Yes Mr. Speaker, Sir. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Let us start with the first thing that your son admitted. Is it true that he did - throughout the issues that this Senate is going to consider - whenever your son needed anything he would tell you and then you would tell the Deputy Governor?

Correct, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: He also said that he relocated from Nairobi to Kisii, to your homestead at a certain point in 2023. Is that correct?

If I may explain, I say no. I am the one who relocated my son to move from Nairobi to his homeland in Kisii.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Yes that is what I was asking you. Basically, it is true that he moved from Nairobi to Kisii sometime in the year 2023?

Yes in 2023 and he came alone without his wife. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: It is also true as he says that you assisted him to relocate?

Yes, I assisted him to relocate. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: How did you assist him?

He had been staying in Nairobi for more than 13 years and there was little communication between my son and I. I am aging and decided to see how I can bring all my children together. I made an effort to look for him. Somewhere between April and May, I called him back home.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Mr. Misati, because of time, let me manage what you are saying. Whose idea was it for him to relocate?

Pardon. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Was it your idea?

It was my idea. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Did you facilitate his relocation?

Correct. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Let us move on then. He says that your testimony both at the Assembly and today, which is captured in your statement, is meant to cause him to lose his money. What do you have to say about that?

About what?

It was my idea. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Did you facilitate his relocation?

Correct. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Let us move on then. He says that your testimony both at the Assembly and today, which is captured in your statement, is meant to cause him to lose his money. What do you have to say about that?

About what?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, on 28th May, 2023, as usual and as friends, I made an appointment to see His Excellency the Deputy Governor at his home. I went with my three sons to his home. As we were seated, I had some social discussions with the Deputy Governor about 20 meters away from where I left my sons.

That is the time the Deputy Governor told me that he had given me money in October/November, 2022, after the elections, Kshs500,000. He asked me if I was in a position to refund his money. In that connection, I told him that I could try to refund the money. From my joint account with my wife, I transferred money from my account to His Excellency the Deputy Governor. It was Kshs70,0000 three times and Kshs41, 000. The total figure transferred was Kshs251,000.

In our discussions, he told me that he needed some money in cash. I told him that I did not have money in cash but that I will instruct my wife to send money to my son Dennis. My wife did that by sending Kshs250,000 for withdrawal in the nearest market. We tried to get the money but it was late and there was no shop with that float. Therefore, I instructed my son to transfer the money to His Excellency the Deputy Governor Dr. Monda.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Okay. I want us to look at your statement and take the Hon. Senators through the payments. I would like you to go to page 60, paragraph 11, of your statement. I want to correlate that with pages 65 and 66. In paragraph 11 you have said that ‘I, therefore, refunded by paying Kshs251,000 directly from my Co-operative Bank’. Can you see that in paragraph 11?

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You paid Kshs70,000 three times and Kshs41,000. I would like us to go to page 65. Are you there?

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: On page 65 can you confirm that the remittances of Kshs70,000 are reflected three times?

Yes. Mr. Speaker, Sir. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: I want you to turn over to page 66. Is it true that Kshs41,000 is shown?

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: On page 65 can you confirm that the remittances of Kshs70,000 are reflected three times?

Yes. Mr. Speaker, Sir. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: I want you to turn over to page 66. Is it true that Kshs41,000 is shown?

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Correct, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: I would like to take you to pages 75 to 88. I want us to go specifically to page 87. Are you on page 87? Hon. Senators, his wife’s M-pesa statement is on pages 75 to 88 on the Deputy Governor’s bundle. I want us to particularly go to page 88. Are you there?

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Can you confirm that between the hours 1944 and 2001, your wife remitted the sum of Kshs50,000, Kshs50,000 and Kshs150,000 to Dennis Misati as it appears on the face of that Mpesa

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: That constitutes to a total of how much?

Kshs250,000. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: What was the purpose of this remittance of money?

The purpose of this remittance to my son, Dennis--- The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: No. We have seen that you pulled out Kshs250,000 from your Co-operative Bank account and another Kshs250,000 from your wife through Dennis.

That is correct The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You sent it to Dr. Monda.

I instructed my son to send--- The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: That is okay. You sent a total of Kshs500,000 to Dr. Monda?

Correct. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: What were you giving the Kshs500,000 to Dr. Monda for?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, this was a refund. The money that he gave in October/November, 2022.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: This was a refund?

Yes.

Correct. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: What were you giving the Kshs500,000 to Dr. Monda for?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, this was a refund. The money that he gave in October/November, 2022.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: This was a refund?

Yes.

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Was Dennis part of the ownership of that money? The Kshs500,000?

No, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Dennis said that he had given you this money and the two of you were holding this money on his behalf and that he gave you in cash. Is that true?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is not true. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: It is not true that he had given you any money.

It is not true. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: This money was yours and your wife’s?

Correct, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Your position is that it was a refund. Was it a bribe?

No, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: It was a refund, not a bribe.

It was a refund. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Let us digress a little before we come back to the Kshs300,000. First of all, you said you went with how many sons?

Three The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Was it three or four sons?

Okay, I am not counting the driver. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: How many sons did you go with?

Four sons. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You were five people in the Deputy Governor’s House?

Correct, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Who initiated the idea of going to visit the governor?

Okay, I am not counting the driver. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: How many sons did you go with?

Four sons. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You were five people in the Deputy Governor’s House?

Correct, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Who initiated the idea of going to visit the governor?

By me. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: To who?

To His Excelency the Deputy Governor. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: It is you who requested to go and see him?

Correct. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: When your son says in his statement and affidavit that it is the Deputy Governor who summoned you, is that correct?

No, that is not correct. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Let us move on. Were you, the Deputy Governor and your four sons, seated together when this money changed hands?

No, we were not seated together. I am repeating that, after we went we entered his house, me and His Excellency the Deputy Governor, Dr. Robert Monda, moved aside about 20 meters to have our own social discussions.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: So, you went aside the two of you?

Correct. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: The boys remained 20 meters away?

Mr. Joseph Misati: That is it. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Did they participate in your conversation?

No, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: So, when Dennis says they sat far away from you and that they did not participate in your conversation, that is true?

That is true. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: At Paragraph 14, there is another Kshs300,000 that was given to the Deputy Governor.

Dennis says there was another Kshs300,000 that was given in cash. What do you have to say in respect to that Kshs300,000?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, that is untrue. If you look at my balance in the Cooperative Bank, I had more money, if I were to give the alleged Kshs800,000.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: I just want you to answer directly. Dennis says you and him walked into the Deputy Governor’s Office at the stadium and handed over Kshs300,000 in cash. That is what Dennis says, you have seen that. Is it true?

It is not true. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Did you ever give the Deputy Governor any Kshs300,000 over and above the Kshs500,000? Apart from the Kshs500,000 that we have seen, is there any other Kshs300,000 that you gave him?

I would like to move on to paragraph 16 to 17. It is said that this issue has been reported to the Ethics and Anti-Corruption Commission (EACC) . You are aware of the contention that it has been reported to EACC. Is it?

No, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You are not aware?

I am not aware. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: However, you are aware that Dennis says he has reported to EACC?

Yes, I have heard. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You have heard from Dennis?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: The bank account from which the money was drawn is your Cooperative Bank account and your wife's M- pesa account. Is it?

That is it. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Has the EACC summoned you to record a statement on that issue?

No, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: They have not up to today?

Yes, up to today. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Has your wife been summoned on this issue?

No, please.

No, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: They have not up to today?

Yes, up to today. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Has your wife been summoned on this issue?

No, please.

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Is it true that you have ever seen a demand letter from Dennis?

Pardon. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Have you seen any letter demanding---?

No, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: It is also said by Dennis that threats were made at him.

Pardon. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Dennis says that the Deputy Governor threatened him. You have seen that?

I have not seen that, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: No. I am saying, you are aware that Dennis says that you threatened him?

Me? I threatened him or who? The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: No. Dennis says that the Deputy Governor threatened him.

No, please. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: No. I am saying, are you aware of that claim by Dennis?

I am aware. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You are aware?

Yes, please. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Are you aware of any threat emanating from the Deputy Governor to Dennis?

No, please. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Okay. He says that threat was communicated to you. That the Deputy Governor told you to go and tell Dennis to keep away because he is trying to climb a mountain he cannot climb. That is what he says and those are the words he used.

Were you sent by Deputy Governor at any time to communicate any threat to Dennis?

No, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Yes, please. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Are you aware of any threat emanating from the Deputy Governor to Dennis?

No, please. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Okay. He says that threat was communicated to you. That the Deputy Governor told you to go and tell Dennis to keep away because he is trying to climb a mountain he cannot climb. That is what he says and those are the words he used.

Were you sent by Deputy Governor at any time to communicate any threat to Dennis?

No, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Correct. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Could you confirm that at Paragraph six of your affidavit, you said how you have been consoling each other when you are bereaved together with the Deputy Governor? I am referring to the paragraph for the benefit of hon. Senators.

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: That specifically, Dr. Monda, was there when you lost your mother and you were there for him when he lost his daughter. You lost you mother in the year 2001 and he lost his daughter in 2018, and the two of you were together.

That is correct. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You also borrowed each other agrovet stock as stated in Paragraph 5. Is it?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: At Page 67 of you bundle, at Paragraph 24, you said that in the month of January 2024, over time, you have borrowed a total sum of Kshs600,000 from Dr. Monda for various purposes?

Yes, about Kshs600,000 for my personal use. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You have captured that at Pages 68, 71 and 70, the various amounts?

Correct. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: At Page117A, there is another amount of Kshs50,000. Could you go to Page 117? The one we were just talking about at Pages 68, 71 and 70 was in the month of January, 2024. Is it?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: At Page 117A, you received another Kshs50,000. Whom did you receive that Kshs50,000 from?

Pardon. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Is it true that you received a sum of Kshs50,000 in the year 2014 from Joyce Monda?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Who is Joyce Monda?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: At Page 117A, you received another Kshs50,000. Whom did you receive that Kshs50,000 from?

Pardon. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Is it true that you received a sum of Kshs50,000 in the year 2014 from Joyce Monda?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Who is Joyce Monda?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Who is Leah Onsare?

Leah Onsare-- The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Leah Nyanjera Onsare, who is she?

Leah Nyanjera Onsare is the daughter of His Excellency the Deputy Governor of Kisii

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: At Page 111, there is a sum of Kshs200,000 from Joseph Misati and Anna. That is your joint account. There is Joseph Misati Anna. You can see that?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Could you tell the Senate what was happening there?

The Deputy Governor instructed me to send this money to his daughter.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Why?

As usual, we have been assisting each other. Thereafter, she was to refund.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Who needed the money?

According to this, I was instructed by the Deputy Governor to send money to his daughter.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Who needed the money? Was it the Deputy Governor or what is the position?

This money was needed by his daughter. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: So, the daughter needed money. Why was the Deputy Governor not sending the money to his daughter?

That one I cannot explain. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You cannot explain?

Yes.

This money was needed by his daughter. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: So, the daughter needed money. Why was the Deputy Governor not sending the money to his daughter?

That one I cannot explain. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You cannot explain?

Yes.

That is not true. I love all my sons. I have six sons in total and all of them, except one, are graduates. Others have done Masters degrees.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: All your children are graduates and others have postgraduate degrees?

Correct. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: And you love all of them?

I love them equally. That is why when I want to go to some places, they accompany me.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: They take you with them because mnapendana.

That is it. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Why did you relocate Dennis from Nairobi?

If I may repeat that, when somebody is--- The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: I am out of time.

I wanted him to be nearer me. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Was it out of a desire to punish him or out of affection that you needed to take care of his welfare?

I wanted him to be near me and get some blessings before--- -

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Before what?

I am not going to say that. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You want to withdraw that?

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: How do you feel about appearing here with your son before the Senate to banter words with him?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am very sad because this is my son and it is me who paid his school fees and for his daughter,who is schooling at St. Mary’s Nyabururu Girls’ Boarding Primary School.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: So, you take care of the school fees for his daughter?

Yes.

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: How do you feel about appearing here with your son before the Senate to banter words with him?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am very sad because this is my son and it is me who paid his school fees and for his daughter,who is schooling at St. Mary’s Nyabururu Girls’ Boarding Primary School.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: So, you take care of the school fees for his daughter?

Yes.

I may not know things like those because--- I can say no. She told me that she was sick, then I took her to the hospital using my money.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: So, you relocated him from Nairobi, paid school fees for his daughter and took care of his wife?

Correct. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: And you are prepared to continue doing that?

Mr. Joseph Misati: Always. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Are you happy to have your sons, including Dennis?

That is my son and I will always be happy because--- It is only that yesterday when I met him, he denounced me.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: I am handing you over. It is lucky that you did not become a priest because you would not have had Dennis and the others.

Pardon? The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: I am told that my time is up. You will be asked a couple of questions by my colleague. They might not be as polite as I am, but just be strong.

Hon. Senators, let us now have the Counsel representing the County Assembly.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker. Sir. It is always a pleasure to listen to my Senior, Mr. Kigen.

Counsel, you have only 15 minutes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, Mr. Mutuma will take the witness.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to assure my learned friend that I will be kind to Mr. Misati. I respect him and I will accord him that respect.

Pardon? The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: I am told that my time is up. You will be asked a couple of questions by my colleague. They might not be as polite as I am, but just be strong.

Hon. Senators, let us now have the Counsel representing the County Assembly.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker. Sir. It is always a pleasure to listen to my Senior, Mr. Kigen.

Counsel, you have only 15 minutes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, Mr. Mutuma will take the witness.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to assure my learned friend that I will be kind to Mr. Misati. I respect him and I will accord him that respect.

I cannot recall the date. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Was it this year or last year?

It was somewhere in June. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: That was last year.

It was in 2023. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: And that is the time when the announcement was made on the filling of the recruitment at the GWASCO Limited, is it not?

No, please. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Was it after or before?

It was after. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Thank you. You have also said that you have been long time friends with the Deputy Governor for 32 years, and that is very clear from your transactions. Right?

Correct, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: You have been colleagues. He was your boss and you worked under him in the Veterinary Department, correct?

That is true, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: And you continued and extended that friendship beyond retirement?

Even up to now. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: You would describe that friendship to be very tight and close, is it not?

That one is relative.

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Very tight? You would not then want to witness a close friend going down through an impeachment process, would you?

That is relative too.

That one is relative.

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Very tight? You would not then want to witness a close friend going down through an impeachment process, would you?

That is relative too.

It is a willing behaviour. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Thank you. While I am still at that, you have confirmed in your affidavit appearing at Page 59 of the Deputy Governor’s response that you have been asking favours from each other, including seeking job opportunities for your children. Is that correct?

Like any other person.

That is correct. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: So, you have been seeking those favours?

Not always. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Specifically, in this case, you have deponed an affidavit that you did approach the Deputy Governor and asked him to assist in employment of your son, Dennis Mokaya. That is your evidence, correct?

That is true. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: So, you are not disputing that you approached him and he promised to assist?

I cannot dispute, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Which position were you asking him to assist in the recruitment?

Somewhere in April, 2023, there was an advertisement at GWASCO, which I saw through the newspapers. Since I wanted my son back home, I informed my son to go through the website and look for the application.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: So, it was you who approached your son and notified him of a possible vacancy at GWASCO.

It is me who informed my son. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Thank you. Subsequently, you asked the Deputy Governor before shortlisting to assist in that recruitment.

I cannot dispute, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Which position were you asking him to assist in the recruitment?

Somewhere in April, 2023, there was an advertisement at GWASCO, which I saw through the newspapers. Since I wanted my son back home, I informed my son to go through the website and look for the application.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: So, it was you who approached your son and notified him of a possible vacancy at GWASCO.

It is me who informed my son. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Thank you. Subsequently, you asked the Deputy Governor before shortlisting to assist in that recruitment.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, in any case, when you are having some social discussion, there are some things you pass through your friend.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: I am asking you a very good question. How was the Deputy Governor supposed to assist in recruitment for an office he is not in charge of recruitment? It is a very simple question.

What I can repeat is that when you have something and you have some social discussions with your friend, you just mention as a by the way.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: You were inviting the Deputy Governor to use his power and influence to secure that job as the Deputy Governor of Kisii. Is it not?

I never influenced that. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: That is not what I am asking. The Governor was supposed to use his position as the Deputy to assist in the recruitment. Is it not?

Yes, or no. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: It cannot be both.

Witness, just give the correct position. What is your position on the questions that you are being asked? These are very straight questions that you are being asked, anyway.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: He was supposed to use his position to assist with the recruitment of your son as your friend. Is it not?

He was not to use his position, but as a friend, not the position of the Deputy Governor.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: But he was supposed to ensure that happens.

I cannot say that because he never got the job. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: But suppose he got the job? I am talking about your request. In your understanding, what was he supposed to do to make sure that, that job was secured?

Witness, just give the correct position. What is your position on the questions that you are being asked? These are very straight questions that you are being asked, anyway.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: He was supposed to use his position to assist with the recruitment of your son as your friend. Is it not?

He was not to use his position, but as a friend, not the position of the Deputy Governor.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: But he was supposed to ensure that happens.

I cannot say that because he never got the job. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: But suppose he got the job? I am talking about your request. In your understanding, what was he supposed to do to make sure that, that job was secured?

What we are talking about is what happened. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Pardon.

What we are talking about right now is what happened. If the position was competitive and my son was not taken, therefore, he never qualified.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: But the Deputy Governor was meant to influence the outcome based on your request because you did not want any other person to get that job, but your son. Is it not?

Influence is very relative. I can say that ---

What is your point of order, Sen. Sifuna.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, you need to remind the witness that he is under oath and his responsibility to answer truthfully and not be evasive or argumentative in his answers. This is because I am getting very frustrated listening to the answers. I am unable to discern the answers that are coming from the witness.

Sen. Sifuna, from where I sit, you know, I cannot tell whether it is truthful or not, but he should. What he needs to do is to answer specific questions as they are.

That is what I am saying.

The questions are just ‘yes’ or ‘no’ answers. From where I sit, I cannot tell whether it is truthful or not. The judges in this room will be able to determine that.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, fortunately for me, I am seated here as a judge. Please, let him just answer the question.

I have heard you, Sen. Sifuna.

I do not want to open that route. I have ruled that the witness should answer questions directly, as he is asked. Let us not go to the route of more point of orders kindly, hon. Senators.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

The questions are just ‘yes’ or ‘no’ answers. From where I sit, I cannot tell whether it is truthful or not. The judges in this room will be able to determine that.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, fortunately for me, I am seated here as a judge. Please, let him just answer the question.

I have heard you, Sen. Sifuna.

I do not want to open that route. I have ruled that the witness should answer questions directly, as he is asked. Let us not go to the route of more point of orders kindly, hon. Senators.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

He never promised that he was to assist me. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Let us proceed. You have alleged that on 28th May, you and Dennis, together with your other sons, visited the Deputy Governor’s home. Correct?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: It was not usual for you and your sons to visit the Deputy Governor. It does not happen occasionally. Is it not?

It is usual. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: When was the last time you and your sons visited the Deputy Governor, specifically, with Dennis?

Okay, I told you that Dennis has been away for the last 13 years. Now, as he came back, I wanted to show him the love I have towards him. In any function I was going, I was to go with him with the others.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: That was not a function, Mr. Joseph; it was a visit.

A function, a visit and anything like that. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: What was the function about?

The function can be a funeral. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: I am specifically asking about this for the 28th. Was it a funeral or a wedding?

It was a feast. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: What kind of a feast was it?

A social feast. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: How many people were in attendance apart form you and your sons?

The function can be a funeral. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: I am specifically asking about this for the 28th. Was it a funeral or a wedding?

It was a feast. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: What kind of a feast was it?

A social feast. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: How many people were in attendance apart form you and your sons?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it was Kshs251,000. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: At that time, your account still had money, a balance of Kshs1.3 million. Correct?

Correct. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: What was the essence of then requesting your wife to send money directly to Dennis for Dennis to transmit to the Deputy Governor, when you would have done that directly from your Cooperative Bank account, if it was a debt?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it was for my financial management.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: You also stated in your affidavit---

I want to refer you to Paragraph 12 and kindly read that paragraph. Hon. Senators, it is on page 60 of the Deputy Governor’s response. This is what you stated under oath. Mr. Joseph, kindly read Paragraph 12 and save our time.

“I then asked my wife to remit the balance of Kshs249,000. I instructed her to remit the amount to my son, Dennis Misati, for him to pay as we sat together. My wife then sent Kshs250,000 to my son, Dennis Misati, on the same date by remitting remittances of Kshs50,000, Kshs50,000 again and Kshs150,000, making a total of Kshs250,000.”

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Proceed to 13.

“I then instructed my son to remit the Kshs249,000 to His Excellency the Deputy Governer, Robert Monda, which he did. The balance of Kshs1,000, partly to cover transaction charges.”

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: There is no mention whatsoever in your affidavit on Oath, Mr. Joseph, that, that money was first sent to your son to go and withdraw and bring it in cash. That is not stated in this affidavit. Is it? You instructed your son specifically to send the money to the Deputy Governor. That is your statement on oath. Is it not so?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it was for my financial management.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: You also stated in your affidavit---

I want to refer you to Paragraph 12 and kindly read that paragraph. Hon. Senators, it is on page 60 of the Deputy Governor’s response. This is what you stated under oath. Mr. Joseph, kindly read Paragraph 12 and save our time.

“I then asked my wife to remit the balance of Kshs249,000. I instructed her to remit the amount to my son, Dennis Misati, for him to pay as we sat together. My wife then sent Kshs250,000 to my son, Dennis Misati, on the same date by remitting remittances of Kshs50,000, Kshs50,000 again and Kshs150,000, making a total of Kshs250,000.”

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Proceed to 13.

“I then instructed my son to remit the Kshs249,000 to His Excellency the Deputy Governer, Robert Monda, which he did. The balance of Kshs1,000, partly to cover transaction charges.”

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: There is no mention whatsoever in your affidavit on Oath, Mr. Joseph, that, that money was first sent to your son to go and withdraw and bring it in cash. That is not stated in this affidavit. Is it? You instructed your son specifically to send the money to the Deputy Governor. That is your statement on oath. Is it not so?

Correct. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: You have now come to the Senate and you are changing that statement.

I am not changing. It is after the discussion when we were with His Excellency the Deputy Governor that he needed some cash---

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. Misati, that discussion had taken place by the time you were putting this affidavit into writing. Is that not so?

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: So, that fact was available to you when you were writing this affidavit.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, with much humility, kindly may I have an additional five minutes?

This Communication was well put before we started with this witness. You are also aware that still we are challenged by time.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Five more minutes, I beg.

The former Chair was here and did a very good Communication, and I do not want to change the rules of the game midway. I will give you one minute as you wind up.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, kindly give me five minutes because this has been a difficult witness in answering question.

Two minutes only, Counsel.

It was, but--- The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Thank you. That is the answer I wanted. However, you did not reduce it in writing. You are telling us for the

The former Chair was here and did a very good Communication, and I do not want to change the rules of the game midway. I will give you one minute as you wind up.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, kindly give me five minutes because this has been a difficult witness in answering question.

Two minutes only, Counsel.

It was, but--- The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Thank you. That is the answer I wanted. However, you did not reduce it in writing. You are telling us for the

Jared Misati. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Is that the person who runs your errands and is very close to you because he is always with you, we presume as your driver? Is it not so?

That is not true. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: He is always with you as your driver.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I think he is lying.

Jared Misati. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Is that the person who runs your errands and is very close to you because he is always with you, we presume as your driver? Is it not so?

That is not true. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: He is always with you as your driver.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I think he is lying.

That is my son and he is the only one who is at home. He is only the driver.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: So, he is close to you when you are running your errands. Correct?

No, that is not true.

Can you repeat your question? The Counsel for the County Assembly

: I am asking, most of the times, this son you have, who is your driver, is with you and runs errands with you. True or false?

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): Mr. Witness, is there a place you go without him as your driver? You do not drive yourself. He drives you.

Since I do not have any other person to drive me, my son, who is at home and who is yet to be employed, and who is older than Dennis, always takes me.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: That is what you should have said from the beginning.

Counsel, now--- The Counsel for the County Assembly

: I was building up on that issue.

You are abusing my magnanimity. Kindly, let us get the other Counsel. There will be a lot of prejudice on my part if I do not conclude on that issue.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, you will note that this has been a very difficult---

It is up to you to utilize the two minutes that I give you. If you keep on asking for more time and I have directed you what to do, why do you not shoot your questions that you want to achieve?

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the problem---

Hon. Senators, if the witness has those weaknesses, you are the people to determine this case. I do not want you to direct the witness on what to say or what not to say. Please, avoid exchanging with the Chair.

Senate Minority Leader, just give me time to manage this process. This is not an issue of which side or not. Please, I beg you. Let me have the other Counsel.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, if you may allow me as the Lead Counsel, the defence still has six more witnesses. The rest of the witnesses have been allocated 15 minutes each. We will sacrifice one witness. We will not cross-examine him. Then, we will allocate that 15 minutes to this witness.

We will not cross-examine one of the Members of the County Assembly (MCAs) , so that we are able to do justice to this case through this witness. That is the compromise we shall make.

You are abusing my magnanimity. Kindly, let us get the other Counsel. There will be a lot of prejudice on my part if I do not conclude on that issue.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, you will note that this has been a very difficult---

It is up to you to utilize the two minutes that I give you. If you keep on asking for more time and I have directed you what to do, why do you not shoot your questions that you want to achieve?

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the problem---

The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma): Mr. Speaker, Sir, we will not cross-examine Thomas Obare Nyabaro and Amos Obegi Oderi. So, we will have extra 30 minutes for this witness. We shall allocate 15 minutes to this one and 15 minutes to the Deputy Governor. It is horse-trading.

For record purposes, can you give me the name of the Member of County Assembly that you want to cede the 15 minutes?

Running my what? The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Errands. When you are going about your business, he is the one who is close to you. He is the one who is at home. He is your driver. Correct?

Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Why was it then important for you to send money to Dennis, who is not that close to you, than use your driver who had a car, to go and withdraw that money and bring it back?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, because His Excellency the Deputy Governor, Dr. Robert Monda, in our discussion said that he needed some cash instead of going to M-pesa. That is the time I decided that the money was to be remitted to a younger person, who will be able to run quickly to the---

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. Witness, could your son run faster than your car that is being driven by your other son? Is that what you are telling the Senators, that, indeed, Dennis was capable of running faster than a driver with a car?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, as we have said that, I have used Jared Misati to be my driver, and that is indicating he is the most trusted to me in terms of management. I wanted also to show my son, Dennis Misati, that I love him through sending that money, for him to also act on that.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: That has been noted, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. You have also claimed at Paragraph 24 - hon. Senators, that is appearing at Page 61 - that the amount of money that you sent to Dr. Monda was part of the Kshs600,000 he had lent you. Correct?

You have alleged at Paragraph 24 that previously, you had received Kshs600,000 from Dr. Monda.

That was in January.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, because His Excellency the Deputy Governor, Dr. Robert Monda, in our discussion said that he needed some cash instead of going to M-pesa. That is the time I decided that the money was to be remitted to a younger person, who will be able to run quickly to the---

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. Witness, could your son run faster than your car that is being driven by your other son? Is that what you are telling the Senators, that, indeed, Dennis was capable of running faster than a driver with a car?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, as we have said that, I have used Jared Misati to be my driver, and that is indicating he is the most trusted to me in terms of management. I wanted also to show my son, Dennis Misati, that I love him through sending that money, for him to also act on that.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: That has been noted, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. You have also claimed at Paragraph 24 - hon. Senators, that is appearing at Page 61 - that the amount of money that you sent to Dr. Monda was part of the Kshs600,000 he had lent you. Correct?

You have alleged at Paragraph 24 that previously, you had received Kshs600,000 from Dr. Monda.

That was in January.

The amounts were partly used to help my son Dennis, especially, fees for his child that I personally paid.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Thank you. You personally paid that amount?

Correct. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Which account did you pay to, what was the mode of payment and do you have evidence of payment of that amount?

This payment here looks relative, it is only that the money originated from me and I gave---

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. Misati, I only have 15 minutes and I want to utilize them very effectively.

I am asking a specific question. To what account did you pay; the school’s account, what mode and where is the evidence? It is very straightforward. So, please, do not bring stories, we do not have time for that.

The money of the Kshs60,000 plus other monies which--- The Counsel for the County Assembly

: No, we are specific on the Kshs60,000 paid personally by you to the school.

The Kshs60,000 paid as school fees for my granddaughter, I gave it to one of my sons, including the other money to go and pay.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. Misati, you have just read to us Paragraph 24, that you personally paid. Is that not what you read?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir--- The Counsel for the County Assembly

: No, No. Kindly save our time, Mr. Misati. Is that not what you read, that you personally paid Kshs60,000?

Personally paid is also relative, but not to indicate where I put the money. I gave the money and my son took it to the bank, including others.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I urge the House to take note of the conduct of the witness and allow me to proceed.

What is the name of your granddaughter?

The Kshs60,000 paid as school fees for my granddaughter, I gave it to one of my sons, including the other money to go and pay.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. Misati, you have just read to us Paragraph 24, that you personally paid. Is that not what you read?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir--- The Counsel for the County Assembly

: No, No. Kindly save our time, Mr. Misati. Is that not what you read, that you personally paid Kshs60,000?

Personally paid is also relative, but not to indicate where I put the money. I gave the money and my son took it to the bank, including others.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I urge the House to take note of the conduct of the witness and allow me to proceed.

What is the name of your granddaughter?

I cannot tell because when my son disappeared, I do not know where they went. However, previously, it was me who took her to Nyabururu.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I yield the rest of the minutes to my learned friend, Mr. Njiru.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Thank you, Mr. Mutuma.

Mr. Witness, have a look at the bundle of documents by the County Assembly. Hon. Senators, I am referring to Page 184.

Witness, I have seven minutes to deliver this. This is the HANSARD of 29th August, 2023 from the County Assembly. Look at the last paragraph where the hon. Deputy Governor is answering.

Before I go to that, when the Deputy Governor asked you to refund the Kshs500,000, what did he tell you the money was meant for?

Pardon? The Counsel for the County Assembly

: When he asked you to return the Kshs500,000 he had lent you, what did he tell you the money was for?

He told me that he had some functions he was to use that money for.

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Which functions in particular?

Which included trying to go outside the country. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: So, the money was specifically meant to go out of the country?

Among other things. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Are those other things that you are referring to, the issues that you are discussing and more specifically, the forwarding of the Kshs100,000 to one Lucy--- Are you aware or not?

I was not aware. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: I want you to look at Page 189 of the same bundle. Did the Deputy Governor travel? Are you aware or not?

I am not aware. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Look at Page 189, Volume one of the same bundle by the County Assembly. It is the HANSARD of 29th August. Who made the request for you to be assisted for Dennis to secure a job?

It is me.

I was not aware. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: I want you to look at Page 189 of the same bundle. Did the Deputy Governor travel? Are you aware or not?

I am not aware. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Look at Page 189, Volume one of the same bundle by the County Assembly. It is the HANSARD of 29th August. Who made the request for you to be assisted for Dennis to secure a job?

It is me.

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Would you read out what the Deputy Governor is saying?

Hon. Deputy Governor--- The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Can you see where he is saying, “Mr. Speaker, Sir, just as a good friend---”

“As great friends, Mr. Joseph and I, somewhere in 1st April, was made to know that there is an advert that has come up in GWASCO and Misati, as a friend, could ask me that his son has also tendered his application.”

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: In this respect, which son is the Deputy Governor making reference to?

Dennis. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Proceed? Can you see where my Senior, Katwa Kigen, is saying, so he requested if you could assist?

Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: What does the Deputy Governor say? Does he say that he made the request?

Yes. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Proceed to read. “And did you talk to Lucy about the request about your friend?” That is Mr. Katwa Kigen asking the Deputy Governor.

That is my learned friend, Mr. Katwa Kigen, asking the Deputy Governor, whether the Deputy Governor spoke to Lucy. Can you see that?

Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: What was his answer?

Deputy Governor: “Like any other leader, this request came to me. Everyone, hon. Members, knows that Lucy is the GWASCO would work---”

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Next page.

Like any other staff who under the Governor’s Office, where I am also the Deputy Governor---

Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: What was his answer?

Deputy Governor: “Like any other leader, this request came to me. Everyone, hon. Members, knows that Lucy is the GWASCO would work---”

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Next page.

Like any other staff who under the Governor’s Office, where I am also the Deputy Governor---

According to this, yes.

I am not aware. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Will it, therefore, surprise you that part of the money you sent to him that day was shared with one Ms. Lucy?

I will not be surprised. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Thank you. Have a look at your affidavit. It is in the Deputy Governor’s bundle of document, at Page 60. Witness, are you there?

Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Have a look at Paragraph 12. Kindly, read it out.

I then asked my wife to remit the balance of Kshs249,000. I instructed her to remit the amount to my son, Dennis Misati, for him to pay---

The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Thank you. That is what I want us to explain. For him to do what?

To pay. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: What was he paying?

The refund. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Excuse me, is it to refund or to pay? Do you understand English, Mr. Witness?

English is for the lawyers. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Thank you. I will now teach you.

To pay. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: What was he paying?

Order, Senators. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: I put it to you that there is a difference between the statement ‘to pay’ and ‘to refund.’ Therefore, because you have preserved English for us, the lawyers, I put it to you that the two words have different meanings. Yes?

It is very difficult for me to understand. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: I, therefore, put it to you that paying is different from refunding.

Payment is not a bribe. It will depend with the context. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: In this context now. Thank you.

That is wrong. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Let us have a look at Page 111 of the same bundle of Deputy Governor. It is a statement by Leah Nyachera Onsare, a statement from Co-operative Bank.

Correct. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: You are the one who has brought this document. Correct?

No. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: You are not the one who brought this document.

I am not the one who brought this statement. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Where did it come from?

It came from Leah Onsare. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Is she a witness in this proceeding?

I am not aware. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: I put it to you that she is not a witness.

You have said so. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Now, Mr. Witness, who sent this money to Leah?

It is me and my wife from the joint accounts. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Upon whose request?

Upon the Deputy Governor’s request. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: So, the Deputy Governor asked you to send the Kshs200,000?

You have said so. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Now, Mr. Witness, who sent this money to Leah?

It is me and my wife from the joint accounts. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: Upon whose request?

Upon the Deputy Governor’s request. The Counsel for the County Assembly

: So, the Deputy Governor asked you to send the Kshs200,000?

Counsel for the Deputy Governor, you have 10 minutes for re-examination.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Thank you very much, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Sorry, proceed, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, my point of order is to appeal to you. The appeal is arising from the provisions of the Rules of Procedure. I invite you to look at Rule No.22 in our Standing Orders.

I am appealing to you that you vacate your direction, in order to accommodate the time constraints, the Counsel for the County Assembly should lose his opportunity to cross-examine two witnesses.

Rule No. 22 says- “A witnesses presented shall be led in evidence, cross-examined and, where necessary and only for purposes of clarification of issues that may have arisen in cross- examination, a witness may be re-examined.”

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, with the long years of experience in this Parliament, I know that whatever decision we make here is still open to being challenged in the High Court. If we are going to be found to have breached our own Rules, our very ultimate decision is open to being challenged. We are not going to dine from---

What is your point of order? Are you suggesting that the witness should not be re-examined?

Yes. It looks like you were not listening to me.

Rule No.22 is addressing cross- examination. Just in case there are other issues of clarifications, the Witness is summoned.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I know. If you listened to me, you would see where I am heading. The point I am making is that vacate your ruling that two witnesses---

Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, I made that ruling. You should sit down.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I will not take that.

I cannot vacate my ruling. Sorry.

Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, I made that ruling. You should sit down.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I will not take that.

I cannot vacate my ruling. Sorry.

Are you also challenged in English Language?

Am I?

Let me give Sen. Cherargei an opportunity to say something. He is a lawyer, who practices English than you.

Are you also challenged in English Language?

Am I?

Let me give Sen. Cherargei an opportunity to say something. He is a lawyer, who practices English than you.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. We are cautioned because- -- The Bible says that we should not serve the law, but that the law should serve us. In our Ruling No.30 of the same on the procedures, you have the power to determine on a particular question, but not limited to question of evidence, materiality, relevance, competency or admissibility of evidence and any question consequential or incidental thereto.

Your ruling is Solomonic and should not be vacated. In any case, in the tradition and precedent, the issue raised by my brother, the Senate Majority Whip, has been overtaken by events. That matter has stopped from being discussed. Therefore, I request that we proceed as you had directed.

Thank you, let us proceed now. Take a minute, Sen. Sifuna.

Sen. Sifuna, you are out of order. Can you withdraw that last point?

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen): Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I trust my 10 minutes starts running from now.

Counsel, you have 10 minutes. Let us proceed.

The truth, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You are standing for the truth

Yes. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: All you say is based on your truth?

Pardon? The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: What you are standing on is what you believe to have been the true position?

My true position in this case--- The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Just confirm that what you have said is based on what you know to be the truth. It has nothing to do with whether or not you want to help the Deputy Governor. True?

That is it, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: The second issue I want to put to you is, you were asked by my colleagues whether the Deputy Governor promised you that your son would get a job. I want you to just confirm that for emphasis. Did he make any promise to you?

No. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: The question was also put to you. Did you know what he wanted to do to assist your son get a job? Did you know?

No. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Did he promise to use his position to get your son the job?

No, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: I move to another question. You were asked whether you usually make visits to the Deputy Governor with your sons. What is your answer?

Correct. That is true.

No. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Did he promise to use his position to get your son the job?

No, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: I move to another question. You were asked whether you usually make visits to the Deputy Governor with your sons. What is your answer?

Correct. That is true.

Just stick to that lane. You have a lot of experience, Katwa Kigen.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Thank you, Mr, Deputy Speaker, Sir. I do not want you to be very verbose. Could you just answer the question? Why was it that Dennis was going there for the first time that day?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, earlier, I stated that my son has been in Nairobi for more than 13 years.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: So, the reason you had not gone with him is because he has been away from Kisii in the neighbourhood of the visit. True?

correct, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You have been asked why you chose Dennis to receive the M-Pesa as opposed to Jared whom you have always worked with. What is your answer to that? Why did you choose Dennis?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, you have got a number of children, you must balance how you can love them.

In that context, you can see that Jared is the person who has been driving me. Dennis has just come and I just want to show him that I love him by sending that money. In other words, not loving because I sent the money. It is just to indicate that I must balance my love towards my sons.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: So, you were showing love and trust to all of them?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, earlier, I stated that my son has been in Nairobi for more than 13 years.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: So, the reason you had not gone with him is because he has been away from Kisii in the neighbourhood of the visit. True?

correct, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: You have been asked why you chose Dennis to receive the M-Pesa as opposed to Jared whom you have always worked with. What is your answer to that? Why did you choose Dennis?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, you have got a number of children, you must balance how you can love them.

In that context, you can see that Jared is the person who has been driving me. Dennis has just come and I just want to show him that I love him by sending that money. In other words, not loving because I sent the money. It is just to indicate that I must balance my love towards my sons.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: So, you were showing love and trust to all of them?

It means from my pocket to any other--- The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: So, your point is that the money that was paid was used to pay your grandchild's fees was yours.

Mr. Joseph Misati It was mine. That is what I mean. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: How was the money remitted to the school account?

I gave one of my sons to go and remit the money. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: So, one of your sons went. In the meantime, whose money was that son of yours taking?

Mr. Joseph Misati One of my son that Dennis is saying---- The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: So, you gave your son to go and pay in the school account. True? Whose money was your son carrying?

My money. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: I would like to move on to page 189 of the County Governments bundle. That is the HANSARD. Particularly, I would like us to look at page 190 of that HANSARD. Could you confirm that it is not you but rather the Deputy Governor talking starting from pages 189 to 190 on the paragraph that was read to you? Is it you or the Deputy Governor talking?

It is the Deputy Governor, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Can you answer for the words of the Deputy Governor or it is for the Deputy Governor to answer for that?

That is why I was unable to. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: I would like us to read the last sentence to the Deputy Governor’s statement running from pages 189-190. Could you read this last paragraph?

“And she told me, let us wait for the process and if he qualifies, we shall not deny him the job and the discussion ended there”.

It is the Deputy Governor, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Can you answer for the words of the Deputy Governor or it is for the Deputy Governor to answer for that?

That is why I was unable to. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: I would like us to read the last sentence to the Deputy Governor’s statement running from pages 189-190. Could you read this last paragraph?

“And she told me, let us wait for the process and if he qualifies, we shall not deny him the job and the discussion ended there”.

Sorry? The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: There are factors. Kuna vitu zenye zinahitajika ndio upate kazi.

Correct, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Is that consistent with what we have just read on page 190 of the HANSARD?

Correct. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: That the Director said it depends on whether he qualifies.

Those are the factors, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to leave my re-examination there.

Thank you very much Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Counsel, are you done with the witness? The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Yes. I am done, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

For this particular witness, I want to give a few Senators an opportunity to seek clarification. My dashboard is full. So, I am kindly requesting whether we can agree we do it four Members from each side so that we can make progress.

We start with Sen. Sen. Orwoba.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. My question is to Joseph Misati. You said that you have six sons. Yes?

Yes. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir

Is your wife the biological mother to all of these six sons?

Ask through the Speaker so that he can respond to you. You know---

Okay, that is one of my questions. I would like to know if your wife, whom you are referencing, is the biological mother to all of the six sons, including Dennis.

Is your wife the biological mother to all of these six sons?

Ask through the Speaker so that he can respond to you. You know---

Okay, that is one of my questions. I would like to know if your wife, whom you are referencing, is the biological mother to all of the six sons, including Dennis.

Hon. Senators, let us not introduce new and irrelevant issues that were not in the presentations. I want you to avoid those biological issues that you have been asked to do because they did not arise and they are seeking clarifications. Just answer relevant questions that you have been asked. Do not bother about the children and whether they are biological or not.

Thank you very much, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for saving me. It is only that talking about issues of who is the mother and who is the father---

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the second question was directed at me in terms of the provisions of Article 76 of the Constitution and the need for the propriety of conduct by---

An hon. Senator: On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, can I proceed?

Please proceed. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Thank you very much, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Regarding whether the Deputy Governor conducted himself properly in accordance to Article 76 of the Constitution, our answer is that he conducted himself properly.

First of all, we are not making an admission that this money was meant to make an influence because it was a mere refund. It is our position that borrowing between friends is not prohibited by Article 76 of the Constitution of Kenya. It is our position also that if it were to have been the case that it was meant to be a bribe, that is when you can invoke Article 76 of the Constitution. Our position is that it was not a bribe. It was a friendly loan between the two of them. It was a refund that was made on 28th May, 2023.

Let us have Sen. Wambua.

Thank you very much, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for saving me. It is only that talking about issues of who is the mother and who is the father---

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the second question was directed at me in terms of the provisions of Article 76 of the Constitution and the need for the propriety of conduct by---

An hon. Senator: On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, can I proceed?

Please proceed. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Thank you very much, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Regarding whether the Deputy Governor conducted himself properly in accordance to Article 76 of the Constitution, our answer is that he conducted himself properly.

First of all, we are not making an admission that this money was meant to make an influence because it was a mere refund. It is our position that borrowing between friends is not prohibited by Article 76 of the Constitution of Kenya. It is our position also that if it were to have been the case that it was meant to be a bribe, that is when you can invoke Article 76 of the Constitution. Our position is that it was not a bribe. It was a friendly loan between the two of them. It was a refund that was made on 28th May, 2023.

Let us have Sen. Wambua.

Proceed, Mr. Witness.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for the love of my children, I usually move with them when they are at home especially on weekends when we want to visit friends.

Secondly---

Did you get the other questions?

What was the second question?

Hon. Senator, let us avoid asking the witness many questions. Perhaps you should be writing them down so that you remember. The assistant there who is standing by the witness should assist and not necessarily the counsel. He should record what is being asked.

Sen. Wambua, proceed.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I also want you to guide us in these proceedings. Is it right for the counsel to coach the witness when we seek clarification from him?

I have directed that the counsel’s assistant should note what Senators are asking, so that you give the questions to the witness. That is why you are standing beside him to support him.

The Counsel for the Deputy Governor

: Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for the avoidance of doubt, I was not guiding him. I was just reminding him what the second question was; being, whether there is a relationship between---

Sen. Wambua, please, ask your second question.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, perhaps, this is the most important. To the best of your knowledge, is there a personal relationship between your son Dennis and the Deputy Governor? When he was given the money to send, was he also given the cell phone number of the Deputy Governor?

Please, answer that question.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, all my sons, including Dennis, have a relationship with the Deputy Governor.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, perhaps, this is the most important. To the best of your knowledge, is there a personal relationship between your son Dennis and the Deputy Governor? When he was given the money to send, was he also given the cell phone number of the Deputy Governor?

Please, answer that question.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, all my sons, including Dennis, have a relationship with the Deputy Governor.

What I mean is that if we give Senators two minutes, then the witness will require 20 minutes.

If there is a problem with the witness answering the question, that is my problem.

Kindly ask your last question.

The last question is whether it is your evidence on record and on oath that your son Dennis has actually cooked up a story to malign a person whom he has no personal relationship with in the name and character of the Deputy Governor.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, according to what the Senator has said, I can also summarise what is going on.

My son was lured, intoxicated with some of the people with an aim to use him to fail the Deputy Governor. After I paid school fees, my son stayed at home for three or four days and a vehicle came to collect him. I do not know where they went with his wife and I cannot tell up to now.

Next is Sen. Chute.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I have two quick questions for Mr. Misati. Does he have any documentary evidence that shows that he has borrowed the money from the Deputy Govenor-Kshs600,000? Second, is there any contribution from his son –Dennis - in regards to the payment of Kshs600,000 paid to the Deputy Governor?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, according to what the Senator has said, I can also summarise what is going on.

My son was lured, intoxicated with some of the people with an aim to use him to fail the Deputy Governor. After I paid school fees, my son stayed at home for three or four days and a vehicle came to collect him. I do not know where they went with his wife and I cannot tell up to now.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is usual for friends, unless that amount of money is a loan, in most cases. However, I do not have evidence because he gave me the money due to trust.

The second question.

I have not understood the second question.

Give Sen. Chute the microphone kindly.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. This question is for the witness. If there are any contributions made from his son, Dennis, in regards to the payment of the Kshs600,000 paid through M-pesa to the Deputy Governor.

Proceed to answer.

Give Sen. Chute the microphone kindly.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. This question is for the witness. If there are any contributions made from his son, Dennis, in regards to the payment of the Kshs600,000 paid through M-pesa to the Deputy Governor.

Proceed to answer.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, allow me to go back. I had more than Kshs500,000 in my account. I was asked why I did not send money in full? This is why I mentioned that, I had--- my financial management, that if I move from here, the other bag is on the other side.

The money was not sent directly from my wife to the Deputy Governor’s M-pesa because she does not have the number of the Deputy Governor. This is why ---

Proceed, Sen. Sifuna.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I was really looking forward to an explanation from the witness as to why it was necessary for the money that was sent from Dennis to be sent by him. The money went from the mother, to Dennis then to the Deputy Governor. If indeed, it was a debt it would have been sent directly either by him or the mother to the Deputy Governor. However, he has made a curious comment. That it was for his own financial management. I want him to clarify that for me. It does not make financial sense for money to move through those three stages incurring transfer charges. What do you mean by your own financial management? It was a direct transaction and you should have told your wife to send it to the Deputy Governor. I want to understand that explanation that you gave, Mr. Misati.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, allow me to go back. I had more than Kshs500,000 in my account. I was asked why I did not send money in full? This is why I mentioned that, I had--- my financial management, that if I move from here, the other bag is on the other side.

The money was not sent directly from my wife to the Deputy Governor’s M-pesa because she does not have the number of the Deputy Governor. This is why ---

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, this is why I instructed my wife to send the money to my son Dennis so that we could continue with the other processes.

Senator, you are in the queue. Do you have a follow-up question? Proceed.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I need clarification so that we do not lose that trail of thought. The witness says that the wife could not send the money to the Deputy Governor because she did not have the number.

I also recall that he said that Mr. Dennis did not have the number of the Deputy Governor. He had to send the number to Mr. Dennis. It was easy to send the number to Dennis but difficult to send it to the wife.

Sen. Methu, are you asking me or the witness?

Senator, you are in the queue. Do you have a follow-up question? Proceed.

Order, Senators. Order, Senators. Next is Sen. Cheptumo.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, every person has his ways of operation. This is the best way I operate.

Sen. Cheptumo, frame your question in a way that he will understand faster.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, the question I want to ask the witness is that – yesterday, Dennis confirmed that he accompanied him to the Deputy Governor’s house. Today, the witness confirmed that he visited the Deputy Governor with his sons and that the sons were sitting from the Deputy Governor and himself.

Witness, kindly confirm to this House that you did not discuss anything about the support of the Deputy Governor to secure your son, Dennis, employment in the county government. Is that clear now? I believe so.

Very clear. In our social discussions, including the refund of the Kshs500,000 and requests like any other person that my son had applied for the job of being a commercial manager, I just conversed with the Deputy Governor about the same issue.

Proceed, Sen. Mwaruma.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, kindly and humbly come again.

Sen. Cheptumo, frame your question in a way that he will understand faster.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, the question I want to ask the witness is that – yesterday, Dennis confirmed that he accompanied him to the Deputy Governor’s house. Today, the witness confirmed that he visited the Deputy Governor with his sons and that the sons were sitting from the Deputy Governor and himself.

Witness, kindly confirm to this House that you did not discuss anything about the support of the Deputy Governor to secure your son, Dennis, employment in the county government. Is that clear now? I believe so.

Mr. Joseph Misati: Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Senator has said that yesterday, my son Dennis indicated that he has no familiarity with the Deputy Governor. Today, I have said that we are very familiar with the family of Dr. Monda. Therefore, by indicating that if we were familiar, why was it that I was seated far from my own sons as if there was something cooking?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to say, there are some things when you have got some discussions, you cannot include your sons and there was nothing that was cooking.

Okay. Proceed, Sen. Crystal Asige.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. My first question to the witness is, there is a lot of information that differs from the affidavit you gave under oath with the information that you are giving under oath today. So, my first question is, were you lying then or are you lying now?

My second question is, in the evidence you gave about the transaction on 28th May, you say that the reason your wife sent the money to your son is so that Dennis can run to an Mpesa point and withdraw because the Deputy Governor requested for cash.

Now, at the beginning of your testimony when you were being introduced, your counsel asked you to tell us what you do. You said that you own an Mpesa business.

My second question is, why would you say that your son did not find any Mpesa branches open to withdraw the cash and that is why he sent it through the phone when you own your own M-pesa business which you could have withdrawn from there through your son.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want the witness to agree with me that the Deputy Governor has higher financial capacity than he has for several years within their friendship. He has earned more than Mr. Joseph Misati.

My question is: Are you giving testimony that may differ from your affidavit and what you are saying today because you might be weary of the well running dry in terms of the financial favours that you receive from the Deputy Governor, through your long- term friendship. Thank you.

Thank you. Mr. Witness, proceed.

Mr. Joseph Misati: Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Senator has said that yesterday, my son Dennis indicated that he has no familiarity with the Deputy Governor. Today, I have said that we are very familiar with the family of Dr. Monda. Therefore, by indicating that if we were familiar, why was it that I was seated far from my own sons as if there was something cooking?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to say, there are some things when you have got some discussions, you cannot include your sons and there was nothing that was cooking.

Okay. Proceed, Sen. Crystal Asige.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. My first question to the witness is, there is a lot of information that differs from the affidavit you gave under oath with the information that you are giving under oath today. So, my first question is, were you lying then or are you lying now?

My second question is, in the evidence you gave about the transaction on 28th May, you say that the reason your wife sent the money to your son is so that Dennis can run to an Mpesa point and withdraw because the Deputy Governor requested for cash.

Now, at the beginning of your testimony when you were being introduced, your counsel asked you to tell us what you do. You said that you own an Mpesa business.

My second question is, why would you say that your son did not find any Mpesa branches open to withdraw the cash and that is why he sent it through the phone when you own your own M-pesa business which you could have withdrawn from there through your son.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want the witness to agree with me that the Deputy Governor has higher financial capacity than he has for several years within their friendship. He has earned more than Mr. Joseph Misati.

My question is: Are you giving testimony that may differ from your affidavit and what you are saying today because you might be weary of the well running dry in terms of the financial favours that you receive from the Deputy Governor, through your long- term friendship. Thank you.

Thank you. Mr. Witness, proceed.

that the well will run dry in terms of financial favours that the Deputy Governor has afforded to the witness in the past.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. It will depend. It does not mean that when you are a Deputy Governor, you have a lot of money. Most people operate on loans. If there is any person I know that is struggling financially, then it is my friend, the Deputy Governor.

Next is Sen. Tabitha Mutinda.

Asante, Bw. Spika. Bw. Misati, Waswahili walisema, “ajuaye uchungu wa mwana ni mzazi.” Na waliimba wakasema, “mtoto sio nguo, utaomba mtu.” Niulize leo ndugu yangu, ni nini hicho kilichofanya mwanao, Dennis, ambaye ameishi miaka kumi na tatu Nairobi, auze biashara yake na akuletee zile fedha?

Swali la pili, katika ile biashara yako ya M-pesa, katika zile transactions inaonekana ya kwamba ulituma zile elfu mia mbili hamsini na moja kutumia simu yako ya rununu. Ni nini ilifanya zile pesa zilizobakia, zile elfu mia mbili arobaini na tisa, lazima zipeanwe katika kitita cha pesa taslimu?

Asante, Bw. Naibu Spika.

that the well will run dry in terms of financial favours that the Deputy Governor has afforded to the witness in the past.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. It will depend. It does not mean that when you are a Deputy Governor, you have a lot of money. Most people operate on loans. If there is any person I know that is struggling financially, then it is my friend, the Deputy Governor.

Next is Sen. Tabitha Mutinda.

Asante, Bw. Spika. Bw. Misati, Waswahili walisema, “ajuaye uchungu wa mwana ni mzazi.” Na waliimba wakasema, “mtoto sio nguo, utaomba mtu.” Niulize leo ndugu yangu, ni nini hicho kilichofanya mwanao, Dennis, ambaye ameishi miaka kumi na tatu Nairobi, auze biashara yake na akuletee zile fedha?

Swali la pili, katika ile biashara yako ya M-pesa, katika zile transactions inaonekana ya kwamba ulituma zile elfu mia mbili hamsini na moja kutumia simu yako ya rununu. Ni nini ilifanya zile pesa zilizobakia, zile elfu mia mbili arobaini na tisa, lazima zipeanwe katika kitita cha pesa taslimu?

Asante, Bw. Naibu Spika.

Yes, Mr. Witness, proceed.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Nafikiri umeelewa Kiswahili vizuri. Haya, jibu.

I have gotten the message. In the question of---Amesema ya kwamba, if I cannot translate that one, the person who knows the bitterness of the child ni mzazi.

I have indicated very clearly and stated earlier that my son has been away for more than 13 years. Even during that time, although there was rare communication, I used to send him some money for his upkeep, even if I do not have the documents to support that.

By saying that he sold his own salon as indicated; he had no salon.

Mr. Misati, maybe you can answer the second question.

Rephrase the question, please.

My second question was; the first transaction that you sent to the Deputy Governor was Kshs251,000 in M-pesa. How come, you had to give the Deputy Governor Kshs249,000 that your son had to run around to look for money to give cash yet, the first batch was given on M-pesa? What was wrong in still sending the Kshs249,000 via M-pesa?

You have said that politicians do not have money. Is it the case that your good friend was looking for money from you?

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. In our discussions with the Deputy Governor, I told him that I have some money in my account. I remitted that money Kshs70,000 three times plus Kshs41,000 which came up to Kshs251,000. In our discussion, the Deputy Governor told me that he needs some cash. That is why I instructed my wife to send it to Dennis so that we can look at a way of how we can encash that money from any nearest M-pesa.

Mr. Misati, maybe you can answer the second question.

Rephrase the question, please.

My second question was; the first transaction that you sent to the Deputy Governor was Kshs251,000 in M-pesa. How come, you had to give the Deputy Governor Kshs249,000 that your son had to run around to look for money to give cash yet, the first batch was given on M-pesa? What was wrong in still sending the Kshs249,000 via M-pesa?

You have said that politicians do not have money. Is it the case that your good friend was looking for money from you?

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. In our discussions with the Deputy Governor, I told him that I have some money in my account. I remitted that money Kshs70,000 three times plus Kshs41,000 which came up to Kshs251,000. In our discussion, the Deputy Governor told me that he needs some cash. That is why I instructed my wife to send it to Dennis so that we can look at a way of how we can encash that money from any nearest M-pesa.

Sen. Faki, you may have the Floor.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I refer the witness to page 65 of the DG’s bundle. I can see you transferred Kshs70,000, three times on the same 28th. You had a handsome balance in the account, why did you not transfer the whole Kshs500,000 that evening through your account?

Secondly, you said this debt which you were paying to Dr. Monda you borrowed the money in 2022. Is that not so? When was the last time you visited Dr. Monda before you went to his house on 28th May, 2023?

May I answer that question?

Let him, first, answer the question.

That is a good question. I indicated clearly that after paying school fees for my granddaughter, things started changing from 6th to 13th January. I think I paid the school fees on the Monday following 6th.

After paying school fees, my son brought some shopping list amounting to Kshs13,000. I told him I could not raise Kshs13,000 then. I asked him to find out whether some of his brothers could assist him. I told him I will look for Kshs500 to buy essential items. Since books were needed, we could borrow some for my granddaughter, which I did on Monday.

After doing that, I told the person who brought me the books to take to my son’s house. After some time, he came back and told me he was sorry because his cousin had bought all the books. I wondered what had happened and where he got the money. After he took his daughter to school, he stayed for two days only. From 6th up to the time he disappeared, he seemed like someone who had a lot of money.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, you know when you have money, you change your style of walking and eating. I was surprised with where this young man got money from, only to find that the boy or my son---

Witness, you have answered the question.

May I answer that question?

Let him, first, answer the question.

That is a good question. I indicated clearly that after paying school fees for my granddaughter, things started changing from 6th to 13th January. I think I paid the school fees on the Monday following 6th.

After paying school fees, my son brought some shopping list amounting to Kshs13,000. I told him I could not raise Kshs13,000 then. I asked him to find out whether some of his brothers could assist him. I told him I will look for Kshs500 to buy essential items. Since books were needed, we could borrow some for my granddaughter, which I did on Monday.

After doing that, I told the person who brought me the books to take to my son’s house. After some time, he came back and told me he was sorry because his cousin had bought all the books. I wondered what had happened and where he got the money. After he took his daughter to school, he stayed for two days only. From 6th up to the time he disappeared, he seemed like someone who had a lot of money.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, you know when you have money, you change your style of walking and eating. I was surprised with where this young man got money from, only to find that the boy or my son---

He disappeared and that is why I was unable - If he had come to me to tell what he was conspiring, we would have been on the same page.

Sen. Kinyua, what is your point of order?

Asante, Bw. Naibu wa Spika, kwa kunipa fursa hii. Hili ni Bunge la kumbukumbu na tumekuwa na kikao kama hiki, tukijadili Hoja kama hii. Nakumbuka ya kwamba, maswali tunayopaswa kuuliza, ni ya ufafanuzi mahali ambapo hatujaelewa vizuri. Lakini, maswali yanayoulizwa, ni kama kwamba, sisi tayari tumekata kesi na mwelekeo ambao tunataka kuchukua.

Bw. Naibu wa Spika, Spika mwenzako alisema vivyo hivyo ya kwamba, maswali tunayouliza yanapaswa yaelekezwe kwa ufafanuzi na si kuonekana kwamba tayari tumechukua msimamo na mwelekeo.

Seneta Kinyua, mimi nikiwa hapa kwa hii Kiti, sijasikia maswali kama hayo, unayosema yameulizwa.

Sen. Osotsi.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to ask the witness about his affidavit that is on page 59 of the defence. It is stated that, “we asked each other of possible favours and this includes; favours like helping each other look out for jobs, educational opportunities and other social welfare openings, for especially, our children.” This reference of looking for jobs refers to which jobs? Can you tell the House which jobs you were looking for, for your children?

Yes, proceed.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, like any other person who has taken his children to school and because of scarcity of employment, it is not a crime - although I am not a lawyer – to discuss social life like looking for jobs.

Secondly, you have seen educational opportunities. I can recall when my children were in high school and others in universities, the Deputy Governor and his wife attended one of my fundraising for the education of my children. I have answered that one.

Sen. Cherarkey Samson.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I have three questions. Mr. Misati, are you only friends with the Deputy Governor or you are also business partners?

Number two, you have said that politicians are normally financially strapped or struggle, which I agree to some extent but some are well-oiled. Have you ever in any point like yours truly, funded any of the campaigns in the Deputy Governor Dr. Monda’s career or been part of his campaign?

Three, in this M-pesa sending, were you sending money to Dennis Misati out of affection, love or were you assigning him responsibility? I want to know because you said you sent to him to show him love but, again, you were giving him responsibility to send the same money to the Deputy Governor.

Finally, are you aware of allegations of a bribe of Kshs800,000? Is it Kshs800,000 or Kshs600,000? Can you differentiate the same or are you only aware of Kshs600,000?

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

impeachment, that my son and I went to bribe the Deputy Governor but the opposite is the case.

I learned of the Kshs800,000 after impeachment. For the Kshs600,000 the Senator has indicated, the figure is there, but it is the money the Deputy Governor gave me and I am yet to refund.

That is okay. Hon. Senators and both teams from the Deputy Governor and the County Assembly of Kisii, we are breaking for lunch at this hour, 1.00 p.m. We will resume at exactly 2:30 p.m.

Last question?

Hon. Senator, it is because of the language. I can just combine it to say that I sent the money for the love of my son and responsibility.

The third one on whether I am aware of any bribe, I have got the figure of Kshs600,000 and Kshs800,000. I only learned of these issues of bribery after the

impeachment, that my son and I went to bribe the Deputy Governor but the opposite is the case.

I learned of the Kshs800,000 after impeachment. For the Kshs600,000 the Senator has indicated, the figure is there, but it is the money the Deputy Governor gave me and I am yet to refund.

That is okay. Hon. Senators and both teams from the Deputy Governor and the County Assembly of Kisii, we are breaking for lunch at this hour, 1.00 p.m. We will resume at exactly 2:30 p.m.

Hon. Senators, it is now 1.00 p.m. time to adjourn the Senate. The Senate, therefore, stands adjourned until today, Thursday 14th of March, 2024, at 2:30 p.m.

The Senate rose at 1.00 p.m.