Monday, 19th August, 2024 Special Sitting

Clerk, do we have quorum?

Sen. Orwoba and Sen. Beth Syengo, take your seats so that we start this afternoon’s business.

Clerk, you may proceed to call the first Order.

Hon. Senators and parties to this impeachment proceedings, we are first going to hear the case of the County Assembly.

Counsel for the County Assembly, you have four hours to present your case. The four hours include the evidence-in-chief, cross-examination and re-examination.

Services, Senate.

This is how we are going to conduct this investigation. You will call a witness, they will be sworn in, and you will lead them in evidence-in-chief. Thereafter, they will be cross-examined by the team for the Governor. You will proceed to re-examine the witness and, thereafter, the Senators will be allowed to seek any clarification or ask questions to that witness.

The time taken by the Senators to seek clarification from that witness or to ask questions shall not be put as part of the four hours that have been given to you. Therefore, when the witness is responding to queries or questions from the hon. Senators, time will be frozen, so that you have your maximum four hours to put across your case. I hope that clarity helps.

Therefore, Counsel for the County Assembly, the Floor is yours. You may proceed to call your first witness.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, and

Sorry, you will have to take oath.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am Zipporah Kinya, a Member of the County Assembly of Meru, specially elected by the United Democratic Alliance (UDA) Party. I am the Deputy Leader of the Majority Party and I also represent the 817 women and girls of Meru County in the Assembly.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: In respect to this Motion, what was your role?

My role in this Motion is that I am the Mover. I moved this Motion in the County Assembly of Meru. I drafted it because I felt there was need to remove the Governor of Meru County, Hon. Kawira Mwangaza, from office through impeachment.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: In the processes and your decision to move this Motion, were you actuated by malice, ill will, vendetta or any other motivation against the Governor?

Services, Senate.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, in an attempt to move this Motion, I have championed for good governance, accountability and respect for the rule of law in Meru County since I joined the County Assembly. I was guided by the need for the people of Meru to get services and the right services. That was the reason I moved this Motion in the County Assembly of Meru.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: That statement you have just made before the House, is it the general perception and view of the entire House or was that the view of Zipporah Kinya?

Once I introduced this Motion before the Members of the County Assembly, my Motion was supported by 49 Members of the County Assembly (MCAs) out of the 69, as per the law. I believe the MCAs agreed with me that there was need to move this Motion in the County Assembly.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Was there any type of inducement from any other quarters that perhaps may have triggered you to move this Motion?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, absolutely none. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Just before we broke for lunch, there was a video that was played before the Senate. We would like you to comment on it. Before the video was played, was there public participation that was carried out?

After I read a Notice of Motion on 31st July, 2024, public participation was done on 5th August in the 45 wards of Meru County. This exercise was very successful and it was both qualitative and quantitative.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: What do you mean by both qualitative and quantitative?

The public participation was successfully qualitative because the residents of Meru County were given an opportunity to give their views, through written memoranda and attending public participation in the gazetted venues. They also gave their views through electronic media.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Through the analysis of the percentage of the public participation, how many were in support of the impeachment---

Apologies, Counsel for the County Assembly. Hon. Members, kindly be seated and be silent as the County Assembly is presenting its case. Let us hear the witness in total silence.

Proceed, Counsel. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: I put the question to you on whether you did an analysis of how many members of the public were in support of the impeachment and how many were against the same?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, about 85 per cent of the public participation participants presented oral and written memoranda in support of the Motion to impeach the Governor. That meant that 15 per cent of the participants opposed the Motion to impeach the Governor of Meru.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Is that evidence before the Senate, and if yes, kindly answer on the same?

Services, Senate.

The evidence is here before the Senate and it is in our documents on public participation, Vol. 5.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Is that the big volume?

Yes. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Kindly point out the page.

Page 14. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Before we play the video, when was the Motion moved?

The Motion was moved on the 8th of August, 2024. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Were there events that preceded the debate of the Motion? If yes, would you kindly indicate them?

Before the Motion was moved on 8th August, 2024, there were events that preceded the Motion. One of them, notably, was the attempted razing of the County Assembly while the Members were inside.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: When you speak about attempts to raze, what exactly happened? The Senators were not present, they might want to understand the situation.

There was an attempt to burn the County Assembly of Meru at around 3.00 a.m. while the Members were inside.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: How was that situation arrested and who arrested it?

The situation was arrested by our Serjeant-at-Arms and security personnel that were deployed around the Assembly that night and even the previous night. The security personnel also assisted in putting out the fire.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: You said that then the fire was lit? Is that what you are saying?

Yes, the fire was lit. It was a petrol bomb. It was a petrol bomb that was thrown on the roof of the County Assembly from the Meru Law Courts. The Meru Law Courts borders the County Assembly. Somebody climbed through the roof of the Meru Law Courts and threw a petrol bomb at the Assembly. I was inside. I could not even wear my pair of shoes to run out. I ran out barefooted that night because the roof had started to burn and we could see the fire from inside.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: That is okay. What were you doing at the County Assembly at 3.00 a.m.?

We were in the County Assembly because of security reasons. There were so many threats to our lives. I would like to report to this House that there was a fire attempt even my home. Fire was thrown in my house. So, we were in fear that we would not get to the Assembly. Some people had threatened that they would block all the roads such that we would not get to the Assembly.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: So, do you have evidence of such kind of threats before this Senate? If yes, would you like us to see it?

The threats were given by some members of the public. I believe we have some videos that can show that, including a video of attempted arson in my home.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: So, we play video nine in the Assembly bundles? As you prepare to play video nine, in summary, whom do you attribute or where were they coming from?

Services, Senate.

In summary, the threats were coming from the supporters of the Governor of Meru County.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Let us play video nine.

As we watch, you can explain what is happening to save time.

Somebody has just come and poured some petrol across the fence from my neighbour.

Then the person threw fire from my neighbor’s side. Then the watchman, who was awake realised that there was some fire. He told me that he heard something being thrown there and then he heard some noise. So, he went to check. That was when he found fire. It is the watchman now who went to call the other workers who came to put off the fire.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Where was that fire, briefly?

It was just next to the cowshed. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Whose cowshed?

My cowshed. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Is that in your compound?

It is in my compound. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Was that done during the subsistence of the Motion or before the Motion?

On the eve of the Motion. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Is that why you are saying that you feared for your lives?

I would want to clarify to this Senate that I had tabled another Motion before this one that was stopped by the court. The night that I was to move the Motion is when the fire attempt was made. So, in the following Motion that I tabled, we decided now to sleep in the County Assembly because our security was not guaranteed.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Thank you. Were there members of the public who publicly exhibited conduct of posing threats to the County Assembly?

Yes. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Do you have evidence before this Assembly?

Yes. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Would you want us to play video No.7 of a transcribed public participation video?

Yes. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Please, have it played. Video No.7 of the County Assembly transcribed public participation. Not that one. The folder is called ‘evidence of public participation.’ Yes, that one.

Services, Senate. Would you explain to the Senate who that is, what was happening and when it was happening?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, that is an employee of the Meru County Government working in the office of the Governor and he is threatening the members of the public not to participate in the public participation. He is saying that there will be no public participation in the whole of Buuri Sub-County because they do not want it to be carried out by the Meru County Assembly. He is threatening that they are going to ‘choma’.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, and hon. Members, I believe everybody understands what he is saying in Kiswahili. He said that “tutachoma na tutachoma.”

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Do you know his name?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, he is Martin. I do not know his official name, but his name is Gachege.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Were those threats actualized?

Those threats were actualized by trying to ‘kuchoma’ the County Assembly.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Were there people who were arrested, and if yes, were they charged?

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir. About 16 young men were arrested and charged in the Meru Law Courts for the acts.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Do you have evidence of them being charged or a video?

Yes, I have a video. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Would you ask to play it?

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Could you kindly play video Number 10? Under the folder; video in support of the impeachment Motion. As we wait for the video, do you have any charge sheet before this Assembly?

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Would you lead us to where the evidence is to be found?

The evidence on the charge sheet is found in the County Assembly documents, volume four, page 571.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Briefly, could you read out the particulars? As you do so, what is that video about? Kindly speak to the video and the charge.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the video is about the young men who were arraigned in Meru courts for the attempted arson on the night of the Motion in Meru County Assembly.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Thank you. Kindly read out the particulars of the charge.

The charge is preparation to commit a felony, contrary to Section 308 of the Kenyan Penal Code. On 8th August, 2024, at Meru County Assembly area in Imenti North Sub-County, within Meru County, jointly armed with the articles for use in the cause of connection of burning the premises of the County Assembly; three bottles of petrol, four motor vehicle tires, and five stones were found in a motor vehicle make Sienta, registration No.KDB704A, light blue in color. The date of arrest is 8th

Services, Senate. August, 2024. The suspects were in custody by the time of the preparation of this charge sheet on 8th August, 2024.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Witness, do you recall the video that was played by the Governor before we went for break?

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: I want you to speak to the said video No.VKM18. Kindly play it. As we await that, do you, with all the persons you represent this afternoon, associate yourself with the content, the sentiments and the views of that person who spoke?

Kindly play the video that was played just before we went for a break.

Kindly pause it. Who is that speaking?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, and Hon. Members, that is a political activist from Meru County.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Is he a Member of County Assembly (MCA) of Meru County?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, he is not a member of the Meru County Assembly.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Is he an employee of the Meru County Assembly?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, he is not. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Evidence was laid that he is the Secretary General (SG) of the Mbus party. Yes?

He is not the Secretary General (SG) of the Mbus party. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Who is the SG of that party?

The SG of the party is Milton Mugambi Imanyara. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Milton Mugambi Imanyara? Where do you get that evidence from?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I got the evidence from Gazette Notice No.5805 dated 9th May, 2024, by the Political Parties Act.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: It was alleged that the association of that video, was that there were 20 MCAs from the said political party who are supporting the Motion. Yes? Do you recall?

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: What is your testimony in that respect? Are all the members of the party supporting the Motion?

No, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Proceed.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, only three of them do not support the Motion. They actually voted against it.

Services, Senate.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Were they removed from the committees?

No, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: What is the current association of Mr. Mugambi, the SG of the Mbus party, with the Governor?

The current SG of the Mbus party has been nominated for appointment as the new legal advisor of the Governor of Meru County. His recruitment is in the process.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: What did you say? He is currently---

Mr. Speaker, Sir, currently, he has been nominated as the legal advisor of the Governor and his recruitment is in the process in the County Public Service Board (CPSB) .

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: The Governor has a closer association with the said party, correct?

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Before the proceeding of this Motion, did you get any letter from any political party trying to advise you on how to proceed?

No, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Do you recall receiving the letter from the United Democratic Alliance (UDA) political party?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I did not receive any letter from the UDA political party. I just saw it on social media.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Yes, but to whom was it addressed and what was the content of the letter?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, it was addressed to me and the instruction was that I withdraw this Motion from the County Assembly. However, I never received any letter.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Who was the author of the letter?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the UDA party SG, Cleophas Malalah. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: So, with all that, what motivated you then to bring this Motion?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I got motivated to bring this Motion because, as I said, when I started, it was in pursuit of good governance and accountability. It was also for the people of Meru County to get quality services from Meru County Government.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: In the opening remarks by my senior learned counsel, Mr. Ongoya, it was alleged that you had promised in advance to bring a motion of this nature.

Yes?

I did not promise to bring a motion of this nature. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Do you have any evidence that perhaps may be beneficial to the Senate, where you might have made public remarks in respect to the question of accountability of the Governor?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, and hon. Members, there is a video that has been circulated since I moved this Motion in the County Assembly. It has been

Services, Senate. circulated on Baite TV several times and I am very sure that video is an abstract of what I said. I have a full video of what I talked about during that media interview.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Do you wish us to have the same played?

Yes, I would wish the extract is played and then, my video is played to ascertain that the extract was meant to mislead the people of Meru, the people of Kenya and also this House.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Thank you. Would you kindly then have video No.1 VKM1 in the Governor's folder played.

Hon. Senators, I am sure the majority of you may not understand that language and I can see the translation is running quite fast. Do I then make an application that will be provided with an interpreter or the transcripts are clear?

Well, unless hon. Senators are doubting the English translator---

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: I am well guided, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

If they have any difficulties, they will certainly make their position known.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: I am well guided, then let us proceed.

Let us play video two in our bundle of document. As we play, what was the context of that video?

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir and hon. Senators. That video is just a small extract of the media interview that I had done that day. Fortunately, or unfortunately, I had done that media interview when another impeachment was being considered in this House.

It happened that there was a problem in a village where I last taught as a teacher. The village had lost around 20 cows and they were feeling that they needed vaccination services from the County Government of Meru. Those are the issues that made me to do that media interview, asking the County Government of Meru to give the people of Meru services and quality services.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: When was this?

That was around the time that the other impeachment was in this House. There was an outbreak of a disease in that area.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Do you have the full text of that video?

Yes. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Would you wish to have it played?

I would wish to have it played. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: In our bundle of document, video No.2, the County Assembly.

Services, Senate.

Counsel, before you play that video, we have one of our Senators, Sen. Crystal Asige, who is visually impaired and she may not be able to see the English rendered translation. In this case, we may need a translator to translate it and explain by word, so that the hon. Senator can be comfortable with the translation.

Can we have a translator coming in, please? Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: I am well guided. We can perhaps be proceeding with the other bit of evidence as we await the translator?

Sure, proceed. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Most obliged. Let us now go to the averments and claims in the Notice of Motion. We begin by looking at issue No.1; illegally revoking the appointment of CPA Virginia Kawira.

Yes?

Yes. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: That is one of the grounds that you want to move the Senate to impeach the Governor on.

Correct?

Yes. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: How was this illegal? Why should the Governor be held accountable for this?

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, and hon. Senators. My first ground is on gross violation of the Constitution and other laws. I have accused the Governor of illegally revoking the appointment.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: I beg your pardon. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the translator has come. Perhaps then we can deal with the first issues.

Very well, you may proceed to play the video. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Video No.2 in our bundle of videos, the County Assembly. That is the video in support of the Impeachment Motion.

Not that one. The folder appearing as videos in support of the Impeachment Motion.

Yes. You can interpret. The Interpreter

: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker, Sir, and hon. Members. My name Muthengi Mpara from Kenya Broadcasting Corporation

(KBC)

, Mwago FM. We are here as translators. I am with my friend Dan.

Services, Senate.

According to the Mover of the Motion, Kawira Mwangaza has failed the Meru Community, now that she is not providing services to the community. That is the reason cows are dying. She says that even buying cows for people in the villages does not make sense because she cannot even vaccinate to prevent them from dying.

On the issue of doctors---

What is your issue, Sen. Crystal Asige?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, since Meru County Assembly has brought the impeachment Motion here for a third time, they should have known that there is a Senator with visual impairment.

What is happening is paraphrasing of the video clip and not direct translation. The video has been played for almost two minutes, but the translator has paraphrased it for about 15 or 20 seconds. It means it is not a direct translation but paraphrasing.

To me, that is unacceptable. Everyone else can see every single word. I feel that the translator should do a better job. Otherwise, we should bring somebody else who can translate verbatim.

I thank you.

Counsel for the County Assembly, I thought that as the video was running, the translator was taking notes, so that they can translate verbatim? We will replay that video one sentence at a time, so that it becomes a true rendition of what is said in that vernacular.

Secretariat, I do not know of the available technology. I have witnessed a tendency where you pause and it disappears altogether. Are we able to pause after one sentence to take a translation, then proceed, or is it that if we pause, the video disappears altogether like I have just witnessed?

The Interpreter

:The translation for that is that a cow producing 20 litres of milk costs Kshs200,000.

Which translates closely to Kshs4 million that Meru farmers are losing.

Those ones are from the Chairman of Oruko Dairy who has explained the loss that dairy farmers have incurred. He goes ahead to add the grievances.

Those grievances are from the farmers because many dairy farmers there are incurring many losses.

Services, Senate.

Services, Senate.

ZK continues to say that in---

Keep playing the video.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker, Sir and Members. I have said that it was a call from the farmers. Having worked as a teacher in that village, those farmers expressed their frustrations to me. That is what I was addressing.

Hon. Speaker, Sir, I have mentioned an issue of cows that succumbed to a disease outbreak. When the farmers sought help from the offices, they did not get any.

As someone who was close to them, I took an initiative and called the Director of Livestock and Veterinary Services, who was my former colleague at the county government. When I asked him why there was an outbreak that had not been attended to, he told me that he had just been transferred from the office and taken to Kaguru.

I would like this House to note that the Director is the substantive Director for Livestock Development and Veterinary Services in Meru County, but he was displaced for no good reason, yet cows are dying in Meru County. That was my great concern.

So, at the end of the video, that is where I am saying, because the government is not sensitive to the cry of the people of Meru County, even if it means taking the Governor several times for impeachment, we shall do it because we cannot let the people of Meru County suffer. The Constitution of Kenya is clear that it does not matter how many times somebody violates the Constitution, the remedies should be sought.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Thank you. Is that one of the pieces of evidence of the breakdown of delivery of services in Meru County?

Yes. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Let us go to Ground No.1. Hon. Senators, I will be referring largely to volume II of the bundle of documents - Exhibits in Support of the Impeachment - when delivering this ground.

It is a volume that appears in this colour. Kindly, Hon. Senators, turn with me to page one of the said bundle. You have alleged, and you want the Governor to be removed from office for illegally revoking the appointment of Virginia Kawira.

Services, Senate.

Yes. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Who was Virginia Kawira?

Virginia Kawira is the current County Secretary/Chief Executive Officer (CEO) of the Public Service Board, Meru County.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Why are you saying that there was an illegal revocation?

The Governor of Meru County, through a letter dated 8th March, 2024---

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Hon. Senators, the letter appears at page one of that Volume. Proceed.

The Governor of Meru County, through a letter dated 8th March, 2024, wrote to the Secretary of the County Public Service Board. The reference of the letter is-

Revocation of your Appointment as the Secretary/CEO, Meru County Public Service Board.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Why are you calling it illegal revocation? Was the right procedure followed in the revocation of the appointment?

I call it an illegal revocation because the appointment of the CEO of the Public Service Board can only be revoked with a vote of not less than 75 per cent of all the Members of the Meru County Assembly.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Was this process subjected to the County Assembly?

No. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Hon. Senators, kindly refer with me to volume III. It is a green bundle that appears like this. Please, turn with me to page 51.

It is a bundle that contains the laws applicable. In this case, we will be relying on section 58 (5) . That is page 51 of this bundle, volume III. What does that provision say?

Provision No.5 of the County Government Act says- “The Members of the Board may be removed from office-

Yes. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Was the Constitution under Article 251 followed in her removal?

No. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Hon. Senators, 251 is at page 28 of the same bundle. Did Governor Kawira follow the provisions of Article 251 of the Constitution?

No. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Does that, therefore, amount to a violation of the Constitution and any other written law?

Yes. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Were the grounds under Article 251 met?

Services, Senate.

No, they were not met. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Have you seen the Governor's evidence and response indicating that she revoked her appointment pursuant to an advisory by her legal advisor?

Yes. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Does an advisory by a legal advisor supersede the provisions of the law?

No. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Have you made an application before the Senate this morning to summon the said legal advisor?

Yes. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Is it your testimony that the documents that we raised in the morning amount to a forgery?

Yes. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Have you called a witness to testify to that effect through the summoning by the Senate?

Yes. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Did the County Assembly take any action in that respect?

The County Assembly has taken the action of charging the Governor or putting her to task because of this illegal revocation. I remember we came here again with the same issues.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: What were the reasons contained in the said letter? What were the reasons for her revocation?

The reasons for the revocation are that the Secretary/CEO did not seek the leave of absence through the right process, and again, the reasons---

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Yes, are you referring to page one of the said volume?

I am sorry for that mishap. I am noting that the reason for the Governor revoking this appointment is found on page 1 of Vol 2.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: In summary, please.

In summary, it says that the officer did not--- Let me read the second paragraph on page 1 of Vol.2- “It has now been brought to my attention that apparently you did not relinquish your position in the County Public Service before assuming this role in your appointment. The County Government Act expressly disqualifies State officers and public officers from the positions created under Section 58 (1) of the Act. Being a public officer, you are thus disqualified from the position of the Secretary to the Board.”

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Were there other subsequent advisories from any other constitutional organ in that respect?

Yes. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Do you have that evidence before the Senate? If yes, lead us to the page.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is on page 2of Vol.2. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Would you kindly identify that letter?

The advisory on revocation of the appointment for Ms. Virginia Kawira Miriti.

Services, Senate.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: From whom is it?

It is from the Chairman of the Meru County Public Service Board.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Who is the recipient or the addressee of that letter?

Her Excellency, Hon. Bishop Kawira Mwangaza, the Governor of Meru County.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: When is it dated?

It is dated 12th March, 2024. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: What is the advisory in conclusion?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, Page three of Vol.2, the last paragraph states-

“In conclusion, it is the Board's considered opinion that your letter dated 8th March, 2024 to Ms. Virginia Kawira Miriti, revoking her appointment as the Secretary/CEO of the Meru County Public Service Board is not legally binding as the officer is duly appointed as per the existing laws.”

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Thank you. Did the Governor respond to that letter?

Yes. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Do you have evidence before the Senate? If yes, kindly lead us to the same.

On Page four of Vol.2, the Governor writes back. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Who is writing back?

The Governor writes back.

12th March, 2024. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Who is Mr. Julius Kayenga Mwitu?

Mr. Julius Kayenga is the Chairman of Meru County Public Service Board.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Is he the recipient of that letter?

Yes. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Who is the author of the letter?

The author of the letter on page six of the same bundle that is Vol.2 is Her Excellency Bishop Kawira Mwangaza, Governor of Meru County.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Would you kindly read the conclusion?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, on Page five of the same volume, the last paragraph states-

“In conclusion, Ms. Virginia Kawira Miriti failed to resign as a public officer before taking the position of the Secretary of the County Public Service Board, despite promising, the appointment amounts to an illegality and as such, I have revoked the same to cure and correct this irregularity.”

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Between the Governor and the County Assembly, who was supposed to make a finding of whether the process was illegal or not?

The County Assembly. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Thank you. Do you have any other advisory in that respect? If yes, kindly read us the page that contains the same.

Services, Senate.

Yes, there was another advisory on the same.

From whom?

From the Public Service Commission.

When is it dated?

16th February, 2023. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Who is addressed on that letter?

The letter is addressed to the then acting Chief Officer, Department of Legal Affairs, Public Service and Management, County Government of Meru.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: What is the content of the letter?

Advisory on Leave of Absence for serving County Public Officers wishing to take contracts as County Chief Officers.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: What did the Commission say in respect to leave of absence? Is a person who is on leave of absence deemed to be holding two jobs at the same time?

No. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Would you kindly read the conclusion to that letter?

The conclusion on page eight of the same document, that is volume two, reads as follows-

“Please note that care must be taken to ensure that leave of absence is only granted for employees that take up contractual positions that are not within the staff establishment of the county. Leave of absence may be therefore applicable to employees appointed to positions of the County Secretary, Members of the County Executive Committee, Chief Officer, personal staff of the Governor, and Members of the County Public Service Board and the County Assembly Service Board, or other contractual appointments in other bodies outside the County Public Service to which an officer cannot be seconded or transferred.”

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: So is it your evidence, therefore, that they said Virginia had qualified for leave of absence?

Yes. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: What circumstances is she holding the current position? Is she permanent and pensionable or she is on contractual basis?

Virginia Kawira is on a contract of six years as required by the law.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Have you lined her up as a witness before this assembly?

Yes. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Do you have evidence that the Governor never heeded to that advice, yes?

Yes. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: What did she do therein after?

The aggrieved person, that is Virginia Kawira Miriti, went to court and she is in the office, courtesy of a court order.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Do you have that evidence before the Senate?

Yes, it is on page nine. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Is that a copy of the court order?

Services, Senate.

Yes. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Do you have the court pleadings before the Senate to prove your case?

Yes. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Would you wish to tender them as evidence before this Senate?

Yes. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: In summary, in respect to that particular ground, was the revocation lawful?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, it was not. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Did it violate the Constitution?

It violated the Constitution.

Yes. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Did it violate Article 251 of the Constitution?

Yes. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Is that a ground under Article 181 and Section 33 of the removal of a Governor?

Yes. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Thank you. Let us go to the next point. Failing to appoint the chairpersons of Meru County Revenue Board and Meru Microfinance. Before we go to that, has this revocation of CPA Virginia Kawira affected service delivery in Meru County?

Yes. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: In which way has it affected service delivery?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, it has affected service delivery in Meru County because the County Executive has really, in many times, usurped the powers of the Meru County Public Service Board and because of that, then the Meru County Public Service is not running well.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Thank you. Does this conduct of the Governor promote confidence in her office?

No. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Does it promote good governance?

No. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Does she exhibit accountability to the people of Meru County?

No. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Does she respect the sovereignty of the people when she goes on and ignores the performance of the County Assembly? Does she uphold the sovereignty of the people as enshrined in Article one of the Constitution?

No. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Does it violate the provisions of Article 73 of the Constitution under the Leadership and Integrity Act?

Services, Senate.

Yes. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Thank you. Let us proceed to issue number two. You say that she must be removed from office and you crave this Senate to do so, for having failed to appoint the chairpersons of the Meru County Revenue Board, Meru Microfinance Corporation, Meru Youth Service Board and Meru County Investment and Development Corporations as required by the law, thus failing to operationalize the said boards and or illegally appointing the chairperson. Yes?

Yes. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Why do you want her to be removed from office on that basis? How has she failed to appoint the chairperson of Meru County Revenue Board?

The Governor has failed to appoint the Chairperson of the Meru County Revenue Board because after the expiry of the terms of office of these boards, they have had no board chairman. I believe the board members because we have not seen any board member gazetted after the expiry of the other board members.

Therefore, by not appointing the board members who are the ones supposed to supervise and also ensure accountability in these boards, this means that the secretariats of these boards have continued to expend public funds without authority and this is an action that may be subject to abuse. I believe when the board is not constitutionally constituted, it amounts to abuse of office and a violation of the statutes that govern that institution.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Who was responsible for appointing the chairpersons of these boards?

The Governor. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Is there any Act of Parliament or Act of the County Government of Meru indicating so or giving her the power to do so?

Yes. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Would you kindly read us to that provision before the Senate?

Just a moment. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: As you proceed to indicate to us, how has this affected the delivery and the performance of the County Government of Meru?

I have said it has affected the development and performance of the County Government of Meru because in the budget, these boards are allocated millions of money. These are public funds that should be spent prudently with a lot of accountability and supervision.

Additionally, these boards are the ones that approve expenditures for these bodies. The board is the one that approves expenditures for the boards. It means without a board, there is no approval of expenditure and accountability.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Can the board secretariat undertake that function in the absence of the chairman?

The secretariat has no mandate from the county laws and statutes to undertake any spending without the approval of the board.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Can you kindly lead the Senate to the law that says it is only the Governor who can appoint the chairpersons?

Services, Senate.

The Meru County Revenue Board Act section six talks about the composition of the board and Section 6 (1) (a) talks about –

“The board shall consist of-

The other members of the board are-

No. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Who else is a member?

There are two others members I have just read. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Is that meant to enhance accountability in the boards?

It is meant to enhance the accountability in the boards. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: In the absentia, can the accountability be enhanced or upheld?

It cannot. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Can the Secretariat expend monies allocated to the board in the absentia of the chairperson?

No. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Has these boards been expending money?

Yes. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Do you have evidence before the Senate?

Yes. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Kindly lead us to that provision where the evidence is found.

It is in another volume. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Hon. Senators, kindly go with me to volume two at page

Yes. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: It is Meru County Microfinance Corporation, correct?

Yes. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: How much was allocated?

Services, Senate.

The allocation for the financial year is Kshs76,155,481. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: The next column speaks about exchequer issues, yes?

Yes. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: How much is the exchequer?

Kshs51,911,631. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Then the next column speaks about actual expenditure, correct?

Yes. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: How much has been expended?

Kshs63, 201,198. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: The next column speaks about submission of financial statements as at 31st March 2024, yes?

Yes. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: What is the status?

Yes. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: What does that mean?

It means they were submitted. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: So, during the incurring of this expenditure, was the board fully constituted?

No. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: How much was expended in the current status of the board?

The actual expenditure for the period in question is Kshs63, 201,198 in the absence of a legally constituted board.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: What evidence do you have that at the time of the expenditures the board had not been fully constituted?

Hon. Senators, kindly go with me to page 51 of the same bundle. Would you kindly identify that document for hon. Senators to understand?

Yes. On page 51 of volume two, we have a Kenya Gazette.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Yes. When is it dated?

It is dated 14th June, 2019. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: What is the Kenya Gazette number?

The Kenya Gazette number is 5202.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Yes.

The Minority Leader, what is your intervention? The Senate Minority Leader (Sen. Madzayo) : Can the Counsel go slowly? We are trying to catch up with these volumes as he keeps on leading the witness. We are also recording.

Counsel, if you refer to a page, allow the Senators to get to that page before you flip to another page. Otherwise, you will lose them along the way.

Kindly, proceed. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: I am humbly guided and I apologize for the same.

Can the Counsel go slowly? We are trying to catch up with these volumes as he keeps on leading the witness. We are also recording.

Services, Senate.

Services, Senate.

You have done slightly over one hour. So, just be guided on the time.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Let us go to page 48 of the same bundle. Madam witness, what is reflected in that page?

On page 48, we have another--- Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: It is a gazettement. Is that correct?

It is a gazette notice. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Who is being gazetted?

We have a number of gazette notices. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Can you see Gazette No.5200?

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Let us deal with that first.

Gazette Notice No.5200 is the Meru County Investment and Development Corporation Act, and the gazetted Chairperson is Felicity Biriri.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: When is it dated?

It is dated 13th November, 2017. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: For how long was the period of the chairperson supposed to run?

It was supposed to run for a period of--- Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: From the Act, when was it supposed to run?

It is not clear from this Gazette Notice, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: When was the term of service supposed to expire?

In three years. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: It is three years with a renewable term. Is that correct?

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: So, was the term of the persons appearing on that page ever renewed?

No, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Look at page 55. What happened to that Chairperson?

On page 55, the Chairperson resigned in 2022 to vie for the position of Women Representative.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Do you have evidence of the resignation?

Yes, it is on page 55. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Was the position ever filled pursuant to the resignation?

No, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: What is the status of that chairmanship?

It is still vacant. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Were they expending all these amounts while the position is vacant in the evidence that you gave us at page 383?

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Let us go to the next gazettement at page 49. Can you see the Gazette Notice No.5202?

Services, Senate.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: You can see that it relates to the Meru County Revenue Board. Is that correct?

Services, Senate.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: You can see that it relates to the Meru County Revenue Board. Is that correct?

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

You can read that the gazettement was done to run for a period of three years. Is that correct?

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: You can read that the appointment was done pursuant to Section 4, sub-section (1) of the Meru County Government Revenue Board? Is that correct?

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Who was being gazetted?

The Chairman, Meru County Revenue Board. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: He was gazetted on the 14th December, 2027. Is that correct?

It is 14th December, 2017. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: When was his term supposed to expire? Upon the expiry, was it ever extended?

No, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Look at page 52. Are you with me at page 52?

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Have you seen another subsequent Gazette Notice No.538, which is being gazetted by the then governor, Hon. Kiraitu Murungi?

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Whose term is being extended?

In the year 2020. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: How long was it supposed to run again?

For three years. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: When then was it supposed to expire?

In 2023. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Which month?

November, 2023. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Did that month fall due?

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Was there an appointment?

No, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Let us go back again to page 383 where we have that table. Kindly, let us go to paragraph four. Again, we repeat what we did. That is the Meru County Revenue Board. Is that correct?

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: The allocation was Kshs359,932,000. Is that correct?

Services, Senate.

Services, Senate.

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Was the actual expenditure Kshs212,000,000?

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Why is it important to have a chair of the board?

A chair of a board is the one who presides over all the board meetings. The board approves expenditures for these semi-autonomous Government agencies of Meru County Government.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: So, it is your testimony, therefore, that the expenditures were done without the approval of the board?

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Who was supposed to make sure that these boards were up and running?

The Governor. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Did she undertake that role and responsibility?

No, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Is it your assessment that she therefore abdicated her duties?

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Does that inspire confidence in her office?

No, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Does it contribute to good governance?

No, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Does it therefore breathe confidence under Article 73 of the Constitution that she knows how to manage the affairs of the County Government of Meru.

No, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Does it therefore breathe confidence under Article 73 of the Constitution that she knows how to manage the affairs of the County Government of Meru.

No, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Is it a ground that meets the impeachment under Article 181 of the Constitution as read together with Section 33 of the Constitution?

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Is it your prayer, therefore, that the Senate should uphold and consider this ground as fully substantiated?

Services, Senate.

Services, Senate.

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Is there any person of any of these boards who has been appointed unlawfully? If yes, who has appointed that person?

There is one. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Do you have evidence before this Senate?

The Chairperson, Meru County Revenue Board. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Where is that evidence? Hon. Senators, again, refer to volume two at page 43 of that bundle. What is that document about?

It is the responsibility of the board to recruit on behalf of the board. On this page, we have a Meru County Revenue Board job advertisement for the position of Chief Officers (CO) .

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Who is the originator of that advertisement?

The originator of the advertisement on page 46--- Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: No, who is the author of this document? Is it Meru County Revenue Board?

Yes, it is Meru County Revenue Board. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Are they advertising for vacancies and positions of the Chief Executive Officers?

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Are they therefore inviting the members of the public to participate in that process?

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Who was to be the recipient of the application forms?

The Chairman, Board of Directors, Meru County Revenue Board.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Do you wish to refer the Hon. Senators to page 46 of your evidence?

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: What is contained in that page?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, those are instructions for the applicants; that suitable candidates are invited to apply and access the detailed job description from the website and all applications and documents should be sent through email or by post, courier, addressed and or hand delivered to the Chairman, Board of Directors, Meru County Revenue Board.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Which date are they supposed to have these applications reach the desk of the chairperson?

10th June, 2024. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Is there a chairperson currently holding that position?

None, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: The letter speaks that they must be forwarded to the chairperson. Who appointed this chairperson?

The Governor. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Did it follow the due process as prescribed by the law?

Services, Senate.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Was the County Assembly ever involved in the process of the appointment of the chairperson?

Services, Senate.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Was the County Assembly ever involved in the process of the appointment of the chairperson?

No. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Did you vet or approve that particular chairperson?

No. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Does that amount to a violation?

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Hon. Senators, let us go to what the law says on the appointment and look at Vol. 3 of the same document, page 59. It is the Public Appointments

.

If you are with me, let us look at Section 4 of the said provision. Witness, read it out.

Section 4 on page 60 of the Public Appointments and County Assembly Approvals Act reads-

“Exercise of powers of appointment. An appointment under the Constitution or under any other law for which the approval of a county assembly is required shall not be made unless the appointment is approved by the relevant county assembly in accordance with this Act.”

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Was there that approval?

There was none. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Is there an appointment?

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Is that a violation?

Yes. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Has that met the provisions of Article 181 as read together with Section 33 of the County Governments Act?

Yes. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Does that breathe confidence in the manner in which the Governor executes her functions?

No. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Does it call for accountability under Article 10 that the county organs will be held accountable for their actions?

Yes. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Does it breathe confidence in the rule of law?

It does not. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Is it prudent utilization of public funds under Article 201 of the Constitution?

Services, Senate.

You are saying this was gross violation of the Constitution. Kindly brief the House on the circumstances that pre-existed before these resolutions were met. Was there a public petition?

Services, Senate.

You are saying this was gross violation of the Constitution. Kindly brief the House on the circumstances that pre-existed before these resolutions were met. Was there a public petition?

Yes, there was Public Petition No.1. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Do you have this petition before the House and where do we find it in your bundle of documents?

It is in Vol.2. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Hon. Senators, let us look at page 206 of the bundle. Witness, speak to the evidence relating to that page.

On page 206, there is a petition that was brought by members of the public to the County Assembly for consideration.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: What were the issues that the County Assembly was supposed to deliberate on?

The issues the public were raising emanated from the last impeachment where the Governor said, it was not me. For everything, it is not me. Members of the public said that if it is not you, then there is somebody else. Then they petitioned the County Assembly through this Petition on page 206 to investigate and take action against the ‘them’ because it was not the Governor.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: How many Members proposed that Petition?

They were 1,611 members of Meru County from all the 45 wards and they brought this Petition to the County Assembly.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Did they append their signatures to that Petition in support of the same?

Yes. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Do we find that evidence from Vol. 2, page 214 - 258?

Yes. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Those are the signatures in support of that Petition. Did the County Assembly consider that Petition? If yes, what was the outcome?

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir. A joint committee of the Committee on Labour and Justice was directed to consider this Petition and upon consideration, the Committee made recommendations to the Governor.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Did the County Assembly generate a report emanating from that Petition? Where is the report found in your bundle of documents?

Yes. The report is in page 90 of Vol. 2. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Hon. Senators, I hope you are there with me at page 90 of Vol. 2. That is the report of the concerned Committee. Were there recommendations that ensured therefrom? Where do we find those recommendations?

Yes, the recommendations are on page 140 of Vol. 2. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Did you conduct a hearing or did you give these individuals a fair opportunity to appear before the Committee before the decision was rendered?

Services, Senate.

Services, Senate.

They all participated except the Chief of Staff, Mr. Harrison Gatobu alias Nchamba Mbithi, who did not respond to the summons.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Did the Petition relate to only those two individuals or there were other individuals who were also involved in that Petition?

They were 12 of them. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: All of them were in the executive office of the Governor?

Yes. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Were all verdicts positive or negative concerning all the 12?

Some verdicts were positive and others were negative. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: When you say they were positive, what do you mean?

Some of the County Executive Committee Members (CECMs) were very clean. We did not find any issue with them.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: They were acquitted, correct?

Yes. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: So, on page 140, Paragraph 14, what is the County Assembly recommending?

In paragraph 14 on page 40, the County Assembly found that the Chief of Staff, Alison Gatobu alias Njamba Mbithi contravened Section 18 (1) as read together with Sections 22 and 27 of the County Assembly Powers and Privileges Act 2017, by failing to honour the summons and invitations to appear before the various Assembly committees, including this joint committee, to produce evidence and respond to the allegations levelled against him in this Petition.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Those are the findings, correct?

Yes. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Does he always oblige to summons or is he perpetually and notorious for ignoring the same?

He does not. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Kindly continue to read.

This wanton disregard for the law, summons and invitations by the respective committees of the County Assembly was not only in contravention of the aforesaid laws, but also acted to undermine the standing of the County Assembly as a whole.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Was this communication ever made known to the Governor?

Yes, it was made known to the Governor. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Where in your evidence are you recommending their removal?

On the same page 140, on committee recommendations. I would wish to read recommendation No.2 on page 140. It states that the Governor dismiss the County Secretary, Dr. Kiambi Atheru Thambura, and the Chief of Staff, Mr. Harrison Gatobu alias Njamba Mbithi, from office for gross violation of the Constitution and other statutory laws.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Was this communication ever made known to the Governor?

Services, Senate.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Where do we find that evidence in your document?

Services, Senate.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Where do we find that evidence in your document?

Page 144 of the same document. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Let us describe that document. From whom is this document?

The document is from the County Assembly of Meru. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: When is it dated?

It is dated 14th December, 2023. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Who is the author of the document?

The author of the document is the Clerk of the County Assembly of Meru.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Was the document ever served upon the intended recipients?

Yes. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Do you have evidence of service?

Yes.

Where is evidence of service found in that document?

Page 145.

No, I am asking of what is on page 144. Did the Governor or the Office of the Governor acknowledge receipt of that letter?

Yes.

How did they acknowledge receipt?

The office of the Chief of Staff acknowledged receipt on 18th December, 2023.

Yes. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Did she act upon it?

No. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Does that, therefore, amount to upholding the rule of law and Article 10 of the Constitution?

No. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Does it contribute to good governance?

No. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Does it contribute to respecting other constitutional institutions as the status of the County Assembly?

No. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Does it amount to a governor who wants to be held accountable and responsible?

No. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Does it undermine the integrity and the power of the County Assembly?

Services, Senate.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Does it, therefore, equally amount to violating Article 1 of the Constitution on the sovereignty of the people?

Services, Senate.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Does it, therefore, equally amount to violating Article 1 of the Constitution on the sovereignty of the people?

Yes. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Is that an impeachable ground under Article 181 of the Constitution as read together with Section 33 of the Constitution?

Yes. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Have you, therefore, substantiated your case against the Governor in respect to this particular allegation?

Yes. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: How has their continuous calling of office compromised service delivery in Meru County?

It has seriously compromised service delivery because all the illegal appointments made by the County Government of Meru are made by the County Secretary, including appointing very junior officers to very senior positions. This has seriously compromised service delivery in Meru County. A good instance is like the one I talked about in the video where an officer in Job Group M supervises officers in Job Group R.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: A moment, please. The Hon. Senators are taking note of that particular evidence. Is it your evidence that they have compromised service delivery?

Yes. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Do you have evidence to show how that has been compromised in the county?

Yes. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Where is that evidence? As you look at the evidence, how has that been manifested? Identify the volume and the page..

On volume two, we have the document on Page 198. However, in the bundle of documents, the page is not clear. As such, we made a clear copy which is on volume six. There is a replacement of this document on volume two, page 198.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Yes, Hon. Senators. Let us go to volume two.

Volume two is not clear, so I am talking now of volume six. We made a clearer copy.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Volume six is a replica of what we find on Page 198. Hon. Senators, if you could go with me to Page 31 of volume six, which is a replica of the same evidence?

On this page, I sought a Statement from the County Government in June, 2023, on the deployment of directors in the County Government of Meru. The Statement was never responded to.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: To whom did you seek the Statement?

Services, Senate.

I would want to take you to the column on Serial No.8. This is the list of directors in Meru County. You will find that an officer by the name of Kabwae Munene Eric---

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Name in terms of the numbers.

Services, Senate.

I would want to take you to the column on Serial No.8. This is the list of directors in Meru County. You will find that an officer by the name of Kabwae Munene Eric---

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Name in terms of the numbers.

No.8.Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Where we have the identification number, correct?

Yes. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: We have the identification number. Correct?

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: That one is lacking. Yes?

The name is Mr. Kabuayi Munene Eric. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: A male in Job Group J?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, Job Group J has been deployed illegally by the County Secretary to act as the Director, Information Communication Technology (ICT) . Hon. Members, for those who have experience in public service, they will bear me witness that an officer in Job Group J is a very junior officer to supervise officers in Job group P, Q and R---

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Thank you. That is delivered.

Those are the illegal appointments we are accusing the County Secretary of--

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Thank you, madam witness---

Among others on that list,

Could you kindly point out others that amount to that violation?

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Let us go down to Serial No.24. We have another officer by the name of Ms. Karaine Susan Gitura. A female in Job Group L. Job group L is still a very junior group which cannot be appointed---

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Kindly wait a moment witness.

Pardon me. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Kindly listen to me so that we can move together. What department is she being appointed to?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, roads department. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Which position?

Director, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Which job group?

The substantive appointment is Job Group R. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Ordinarily it should be Job Group R. Who is being appointed here and what Job Group is she in?

Hon. Zipporah Kinya: Ms. Karaine Susan Gitura is being appointed to Job Group R yet she is in Job Group L.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: What is the status of the roads and transport network in Meru County as we speak?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is very bad. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Is there a hue and cry?

Services, Senate.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Thank you. Is there any other entry that you wish the Senators to look at? Perhaps serial No. 25.

Services, Senate.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Thank you. Is there any other entry that you wish the Senators to look at? Perhaps serial No. 25.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, Serial No. 25. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Who is being appointed?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, Mr. Maraine Cyprian. A male in Job Group L, Director Roads and transport in charge of fleet management.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: He is being appointed to oversee the roads, transport and energy sector. Correct?

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: This is the Director of Fleet Management. Correct?

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Does he qualify for that appointment?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, he does not qualify. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Kindly confirm that this is a list of directors that you received pursuant to your search for information, and that the same came from the County Executive.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I can confirm that. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: On page 32, do you have any other indication that you would wish the Senators to note?

Counsel for the County Assembly kindly pause a bit. Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, what is your intervention?

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I was following page 31. I would like further clarity because the four officers whom the Madam has referred to do not have payroll numbers.

You will have that opportunity Senator.

Could they tell me so that I know whether they are real or not?

Not now. She will tell you, but not now. You will have an opportunity to seek those clarifications. At that time, you will be given your clarification.

Proceed, Counsel for the County Assembly. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Madam witness, kindly refer to page 30 of the said document. That is the letter dated the 25th June, 2024. Correct?

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: The letter is addressed to the Clerk of Meru County Assembly. Correct?

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: The same comes from Dickson Munene Nkanata. Correct?

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Who is Dickson Munene?

Services, Senate.

Services, Senate.

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: The same was received by the Clerk of the County Assembly on the 25th June, 2024.

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Hon. Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale wanted you to confirm whether there are payroll numbers indicated there too.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I can confirm that there is no payroll number that is indicated there. I may not know the reason because that is an official document from the county government.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: However, you have evidence before this Assembly that they have maintained two types of payrolls, correct? Both manual and---

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Manual and Integrated Payroll and Personnel Database (IPPD) .

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Do you have evidence to that effect that you shall be yielding in the future?

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Before I yield you to my learned friend, I will only ask you one question about grounds No.6. You are accusing the Governor of deliberately and knowingly misleading the public. However, before we go to that, do you have evidence before this Assembly where service delivery has been compromised? Do you have a video indicating how service delivery has been compromised?

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Would you wish to play video No. 11?

Yes, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Kindly have it played from our videos in support of the Motion. Madam Temporary Speaker, we might require the assistance of the interpreter once more.

Services, Senate. name is Muthengi Mpara. I am from Kenya Broadcasting Channel (KBC), Mwago FM, the translator.

Services, Senate. name is Muthengi Mpara. I am from Kenya Broadcasting Channel (KBC), Mwago FM, the translator.

Services, Senate.

We are waiting for the doctor to come so that he can confirm whether the child is okay or not.

Services, Senate.

Services, Senate.

The watchman is insulting by calling those of us who went to seek for services as prostitutes.

We want the Governor to take action. Before Monday, something has to be done.

We can stop at that. Thank you. Madam witness?

We want the Governor to take action. Before Monday, something has to be done.

We can stop at that. Thank you. Madam witness?

Yes. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: What is the status of service delivery in Meru County in respect to that hospital? Are you aware of that hospital?

Yes, I am aware of that hospital. It is in Tigania East.

Counsel, just to alert you that you have done two hours now.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Madam Temporary Speaker, we are just about to conclude. Is that the current status of hospitals?

Yes. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Did the Governor offer any explanation or apology?

No. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Did the Governor take any disciplinary action to make sure that the hospital is up and running?

I am not aware of any. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Let us look at Ground No.6 on page 10 of the Motion. What are you charging the Governor with?

Hon. Senators, these are grounds of impeachment in Volume 1.

Yes. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: What are you charging the Governor with?

Count No.2 is Gross Misconduct. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Briefly, how has the Governor misconducted herself in this respect?

The Governor has engaged in gross misconduct by deliberately and knowingly misleading the public. She gave false information that Kshs86

million had been raised through Paybill No.247247 and Account No.0400163917899, established after the murder of Daniel Muthiani, alias Sniper, thus violating the moral and ethical requirements expected of State officers contrary to Section 19---

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: That is okay. What did the Governor say in respect to this amount of money and what is the actual fact?

In a video that I would wish is played, the Governor--- Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: It is okay. What did she say?

Services, Senate.

Services, Senate.

According to the bank statement in volume two, from page 277 to the last page which is 330. The correct position is that a total of Kshs286,518 was contributed by members of the public.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: What is the evidence appearing on page 277? Those are bank statements, correct?

These are bank statements.

The account holder is Irene Kawira Kamenchu. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Why is she operating this account?

She is the widow to the deceased. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Therefore, she was in charge of operating this account, correct?

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Yes

She told me that she got interested in this issue because I touched on an issue that was affecting her directly.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Are you calling her as a witness in this case?

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Yes

She told me that she got interested in this issue because I touched on an issue that was affecting her directly.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Are you calling her as a witness in this case?

Yes. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: What is your grievance in respect to these particular utterances and who uttered them?

These utterances were meant to mislead the public. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Who uttered them?

The Governor of Meru County, Kawira Mwangaza. She uttered the utterances in a press briefing.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Yes. What else did she say in that press briefing?

(Technical hitch)

(Technical hitch)

In that press briefing, the Governor said that a total of Kshs86 million was raised in respect to the contributions towards the --- The widow should be bought a prado, a mansion should be built for her and an education fund be established out of the Kshs86 million. Then she alleged that--- --- it is a business that the Members of County Assembly (MCAs) are used to get fuel for their vehicles. It is an avenue for playing politics. I believe those words were not kind.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: What did she say in respect to the death of Mr. Sniper?

Services, Senate.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: What did she say in respect to the Sniper's wife?

Services, Senate.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: What did she say in respect to the Sniper's wife?

I pray that the video is played because I cannot remember everything off head.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Okay, let us have that video played.

Let us have the video played. I have just given a few highlights.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: No, we will call the other witness to have it played. However, did she make any remarks in respect to Sniper's wife?

Yes. She talked about the Sniper's wife being built a mansion.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: In respect to her being or living with a ---

Oh, sorry. I forgot that. She also alleged that Sniper’s wife had already been taken by one of the MCAs and was living with him. Well, it was meant to undermine the integrity of the MCAs.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Thank you, Madam Witness. I yield you to my learned friend, Mr. Boniface Mawira, to take you through the last count.

(Technical hitch)

Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: Good afternoon, Madam Witness. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I will pick up from where my learned senior has left. On this count number two - Gross misconduct. These utterances --- You have a witness in respect to that allegation, correct?

Yes. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: A video for that witness will be played then. Yes?

Yes. Mr. Mwereru Mawira: So, does this conduct that you say is gross misconduct by the Governor fall below the expectations of the conduct of state officers under Article 75 of the Constitution?

Yes. Mr. Mwereru Mawira: Specifically, does it demean the office that the Governor holds?

Yes. Mr. Mwereru Mawira: Does it demonstrate respect for the people?

It does not demonstrate respect. Mr. Mwereru Mawira: Does it bring honour and dignity to her office?

Services, Senate.

That is abuse of office. Volume I of our impeachment Motion, a green copy. Specifically, count No.3, ground No.8. You accused the Governor of irregular payment of emergency call allowances to 161 doctors and medical officers using the wrong rates. Correct?

Services, Senate.

That is abuse of office. Volume I of our impeachment Motion, a green copy. Specifically, count No.3, ground No.8. You accused the Governor of irregular payment of emergency call allowances to 161 doctors and medical officers using the wrong rates. Correct?

Yes. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: The Governor in her opening statement stated that there are circulars to that effect and that it was pursuant to a Collective Bargaining Agreement (CBA) between the Council of Governors (CoG) and the Kenya Medical Practitioners and Dentist Union (KMPDU) . Correct?

Yes. Mr. Mwereru Mawira: So, on page No.331 of our Volume II, that is, the exhibit in support of the impeachment Motion, what document is there?

The report of Auditor-General on the County Executive of Meru for the financial year ended 30th June, 2023.

Mr. Mwereru Mawira: The Governor in her response says that the County Assembly has not considered this report. My question to you is, has this report been committed to a committee of the Assembly?

I am a member of the committee and I am not aware. Mr. Mwereru Mawira: Okay. Would consideration of this report by the Assembly change the conclusions that were made by the Auditor General?

No. Mr. Mwereru Mawira: Is the County Assembly an appellate chamber for the conclusions that were drawn by the Auditor General?

No. Mr. Mwereru Mawira: So, the consideration by the County Assembly would not in any way change the conclusions that were made by the Auditor-General, correct?

Yes. Mr. Mwereru Mawira: Turn with me to page 344 of our volume two, still in that report. That is Irregular Payment of Allowances to Doctors.

Yes. Mr. Mwereru Mawira: I want you to read the second paragraph, that is point No.7, right?

Yes. Mr. Mwereru Mawira: Read the second paragraph from “Although Management---"

Services, Senate.

Services, Senate.

Yes. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: What conclusion did the Auditor-General arrive at? That is contained in the next paragraph.

Hon. Zipporah Kinya: It reads as follows- “Had the correct rates being applied, doctors and medical officers were entitled to Kshs51,780,000 instead of the Kshs126,120,000 paid resulting to an irregular payment of Kshs74,340,000.”

Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: So, the Auditor-General confirms that there was an irregular payment of Kshs74 million?

“In the circumstances, management was in breach of law.”

I will take you back to the first page of that document.

“In the circumstances, management was in breach of law.”

I will take you back to the first page of that document.

The first person on that list on the County Executive's day-to-day management is under the following key organs.

No. 1. H. E. Bishop Kawira Mwangaza, the Governor of Meru County. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: In the key management team, the person on top of that list is the Governor of Meru.

Yes. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: Up there, in the background information, the first person still is the office of the governor.

Yes. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: The major responsibility, you will agree with me, is coordination of the overall running of the county government.

Yes. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: Okay. So, is this the management team that the Auditor-General concludes was in breach of the law?

Yes. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: Would consideration by the County Assembly of this report change that conclusion?

Services, Senate.

“In the circumstances, the management was in breach of regulations.”

This is the management that is headed by the Governor?

“In the circumstances, the management was in breach of regulations.”

This is the management that is headed by the Governor?

Yes. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: So, can the Governor say it was not her?

No. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: Can the Governor say it is the County Executive Committee member (CECM) Finance?

No. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: She is the head of the management team? The buck must stop at her door.

Yes. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: I would like you to read what that Article 229 (6) of the Constitution says. What does it say?

Article 229 (6) of the Constitution says- “An audit report shall confirm whether or not public money has been applied lawfully or in an effective way.”

Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: An audit report is the final authority on whether money has been spent lawfully, not, the County Assembly can change what that audit report says. Is that correct?

Yes. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: Turn with me to page 377 of our Volume II, that is the Controller of Budget report for the first nine months, specifically, page 382 of that report. Are you there?

Yes. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: Paragraph 26.7 on Expenditure on Employees' Compensation, the second paragraph. Let me read first so that you can agree with me, right?

“Further analysis indicates that personnel emolument (PE) costs, amounting to Kshs3.36 billion were processed through the Integrated Personnel and Payroll Database System, IPPD system, while Kshs102.94 million was processed through manual payroll. The manual payroll accounted for 3.1 per cent of the total personnel emolument cost.”

Is that correct?

Yes. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: So, this is evidence again from the Controller of Budget (CoB) report for the first nine months of financial year 2023/2024, that monies have been paid through this payroll system?

Yes. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: Madam witness, is the County Assembly on trial in these proceedings?

Services, Senate.

Services, Senate.

No. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: Why do you say so?

I would say so because I am not sure whether the County Assembly does that.

Secondly, two wrongs do not make a right. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: Okay. Is the defense of: “Even someone else has done it” available to the Governor? Is that defense available to her?

Sorry? Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: Is the defense of: “Even the County Assembly or even someone else has done it, so I am allowed to do it”, available to her? Is the County Assembly on trial in these proceedings?

No. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: Does bringing evidence and we submit there is no such evidence, but assuming there is such evidence of wrongdoing by the County Assembly, would it excuse the Governor of her own wrongdoing?

No. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: Turn with me to page KM 34, that is Volume I

It was prepared for the financial year 2020/2021. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: Were you a member of the County Assembly then?

No. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: Was the current government in place then?

No. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: Was the Governor in office as Governor of Meru then?

No. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: To the best of your knowledge in which office was the Governor serving in financial year 2020/2021?

Sorry? Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: In which office or capacity was the Governor serving in the year financial year 2020/2021?

She was serving as the Women Representative. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: So, she was not the Governor?

She was not the Governor. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: This report was not in respect to the Assembly which you serve?

Yes. Mr. Mwereru Mawira: Are you a first-time member of the County Assembly?

Services, Senate.

Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: On ground No.10 - Employment of a Bloated Workforce, it says: “It has contributed to an excessive wage bill.”

Services, Senate.

Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: On ground No.10 - Employment of a Bloated Workforce, it says: “It has contributed to an excessive wage bill.”

Yes. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: Are those the allegations?

Yes. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: Turn with me to page 11 of our Motion still on ground No.10, that is page 11of our volume, draft number 10.The evidence of that is to be found in the Auditor-General report. I beg your pardon. It is to be found in---

Just a moment, Madam Temporary Speaker. How many staff do you say are employed in the office of the County Governor?

Madam Temporary Speaker, it is 111. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: Have you said that it is 111 staff?

Yes. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: Okay. Have you filed any evidence before this honourable House to show that this is a bloated workforce, indeed?

Yes. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: Okay, where is that evidence?

Madam Temporary Speaker, it is on page 164 of Volume II.

Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: Page 164 of Volume II. What is that document that is on page 164 of our Volume II of the County Assembly's Volume II? What is that evidence?

Madam Temporary Speaker, it is a list of appointed persons in the office of the governor and the appointment dates from August, 2022 to date.

Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: Madam Temporary Speaker, the document from page 164 all the way to page 175, those are the staff in the office of the governor.

Yes. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: In the interest of time, you will agree with me that there are 38 cleaners in the office of the governor.

Yes. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: There are 17 information officers in the office of the governor?

Yes. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: Is that a bloated workforce that you are talking about?

Yes. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: In the document on page 172, how many staff were employed by the former Governor in his office?

Madam Temporary Speaker, the former Governor employed 45.

Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: Okay, that is 45 staff. Which page of your exhibit in Volume II?

Services, Senate.

Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: Okay. Have advisories been given by the Transition Authority (TA), the Intergovernmental Relations Technical Committee (IGRTC) and by the SRC on the limitation as to the number of staff in the office of the governor?

Services, Senate.

Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: Okay. Have advisories been given by the Transition Authority (TA), the Intergovernmental Relations Technical Committee (IGRTC) and by the SRC on the limitation as to the number of staff in the office of the governor?

Yes. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: Where is that evidence found in your exhibit?

Madam Temporary Speaker, it is on page 176 of Volume II.

Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: That is an advisory by the IGRTC?

Yes. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: On page 178; that is an advisory by the TA? Correct?

Yes. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: On page 179, you will agree with me that some of the staff that listed there are the Political Advisor, Chief of Staff, and Personal Assistants on page 180?

Yes. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: Okay. Madam Temporary Speaker, turn with me to page 353 of the County Assembly's Volume 2. I believe it is a pink copy.

Madam Witness, you have spoken about illegal appointments in the office of the governor, correct?

Yes. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: You have spoken about how these illegal appointments, people serving in other job groups, through the impunity of these two officers serving under the office of the governor, has hampered service delivery in the County Government of Meru, correct?

Yes. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: With respect to this bloated workforce on page 353, you say that the wage bill for the Meru County Government from the Financial Year 2022/2023 to Financial Year 2023/2024 has increased by Kshs500 million, correct?

Madam Temporary Speaker, I can make a correction. It is Financial Year 2020/2021, and it is on the extreme right; the previous year. Then, the next column is on Financial Year 2022/2023, when the Governor took over.

Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: Thank you for that correction. So, in the Financial Year 2021/2022 and the Governor took in in the last quarter of that year.

She took over in the first quarter. The Governor took over in the first quarter.

Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: The first quarter of which financial year?

The first quarter of Financial Year 2022/2023 in August. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: So, when does the first quarter begin?

Services, Senate.

Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: When does the first quarter of the financial year end?

Services, Senate.

Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: When does the first quarter of the financial year end?

Are you asking the last financial year. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: Which is the last date of the first quarter of a financial year?

The last date is the end of September. A quarter of the financial year is made up of three months.

Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: Okay. So, this is the time when the Governor took over.

Yes. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: Between the first quarter and the last quarter of the financial year 2022/2023, compensation of employees increased by Kshs500 million.

Yes. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: What are the actual figures from financial year 2021/2022? I want you to read that to the actual figures.

During the Financial Year 2021/2022, it was Kshs496 million.

Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: You can just leave it at that for in the interest of time.

Okay, it was Kshs4.4 billion. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: By the end of the year?

By the end of the year, it was Kshs4.9 billion. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: Is this what you are saying has been contributed to by this bloated workforce?

Yes and other appointments. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: I will take you back to the short list that we have seen of the 111 personal staff. On page 164 of our Volume II, on the top of that page, it says:

“Appointed persons in the office of the governor and the appointment dates from August 2022 to date.” Correct?

Yes. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: You will agree that these appointments were made when the governor came or took or assumed office and in the first quarter of that financial year?

Yes. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: Okay. I will take you to the last allegation. Madam witness, this allegation of a bloated workforce, you are also saying that the wage bill of the county government exceeds the 35 per cent limit that is set by law?

Yes. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: At what percentage does the recurrent expenditure and excessive wage bill stand according to page 11?

Services, Senate.

Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: Thank you. The last allegation in your Motion is paying Mr. Kiambi Christus Manyara, a public communication officer in the office of the governor his full salary and benefits while in remand. Correct?

Services, Senate.

Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: Thank you. The last allegation in your Motion is paying Mr. Kiambi Christus Manyara, a public communication officer in the office of the governor his full salary and benefits while in remand. Correct?

Yes. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: What evidence do you have to show that this Mr. Kiambi Manyara a staffer in the office of the governor?

Yes, he is a staff in the office of the governor. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: What evidence do you have?

Madam Temporary Speaker, I have his pay slip and I also have an appointment letter in volume six. You can check for an Appointment Letter in volume six.

Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: Madam Temporary Speaker, we have a pay slip on page---

Page 146 of volume two. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: Madam Speaker, turn with me to page 146 of Volume II. That is the pay slip for Christus Manyara Kiambi.

For which month, is that pay slip?

The pay slip is for the month of June, 2024. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: Where is the other pay slip?

Madam Temporary Speaker, the other pay slip is on page

For the month of April. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: Page 393 is for which month?

Page 393 for the month of May. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: Specifically, on page 169 of that document, beginning at page 164, who is the staffer listed as number 69 in the office of the governor?

Staff number 69 is Kiambi Christus Manyara, a Public Communications Officer II, recruited on 3rd October, 2023.

Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: He is working in the office of the governor.

Yes. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: Do you have any evidence that he was charged in court?

Yes. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: What was he charged with? You say he was charged with murder.

Yes. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: Whose murder was he charged with?

Kiambi Christus Manyara was charged with the murder of Daniel Muthiani alias Sniper.

Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: What evidence do you have in that respect?

Services, Senate.

Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: Madam Temporary Speaker, that is on page 429 of our Volume II on the pink document. Who is the fourth accused person in that charge sheet?

Services, Senate.

Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: Madam Temporary Speaker, that is on page 429 of our Volume II on the pink document. Who is the fourth accused person in that charge sheet?

The fourth accused in the charge sheet is Christus Manyara charged with the murder of Daniel alias Sniper.

Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: You say he was paid? We have seen the pay slips.

Yes. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: From the charge sheet, when was he charged?

He was charged on 29th February, 2024. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: You have information that he has been in remand?

He has been in remand. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: Until what time?

To around May 2024. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: Okay. You have his pay slip of March and immediately after 29th February. Was he paid in March?

Yes, he was paid in March. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: He was paid in April, May and June?

Yes. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: You say that he should not have been paid?

He should not have been paid. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: Okay. You quote Section 42 of the Public Service Manual?

Yes. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: Where is that document in your exhibits? In the interest of time, it is on page 394 of our Volume II. The pink copy specifically, on page 419 of that document of our Volume II. The manual begins at page 394. What does that provision say?

The provision on page 419--- Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: Of which document? The Public Service Commission Discipline Manual, correct?

Services, Senate.

Services, Senate.

He should not have been paid a cent. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: On the previous page, I believe it is page 418, what does it say about interdiction and suspension?

Page 418, 4.2.2 on Suspension, it says – “The circumstances under which an officer may be suspended from exercise of powers and functions of the office include-

It should have been stopped, maybe I can correct that. It should have been stopped the moment he was absent from work, not even being charged. The moment he was absent from work, the salary ought to have been stopped. That is the standard procedure in management of public service.

Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: I will refer you to our Volume 6 of the County Assembly documents on page one and two. What documents are there?

On page one we have an appointment letter for Sabina Gathumi.

Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: What is your contention? In your Volume II, you have provided documents that evidence legal appointment that is Volume II of the exhibits in support of the impeachment Motion. What is your contention with respect to those two officers? It is on page 187 of your Volume II and specifically page 188.

My contention with those two documents on Volume 6 is on other irregular appointments.

Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: Irregular appointments by who?

By the County Secretary of the County Government of Meru.

Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: This is the notorious County Secretary?

The notorious County Secretary.

Yes. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: Where is the evidence of those illegal appointments?

The illegal appointments are on page 187 to 188. Mr. Mwereru Boniface Mawira: Kindly explain what is illegal about the appointment of Jane Kanana? That is on page 188 of our Volume II.

Services, Senate. Department of Human Resources has a substantive Director. This appointment means that---

Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: Sorry to interrupt. Where is the evidence of the substantive Director?

Services, Senate. Department of Human Resources has a substantive Director. This appointment means that---

Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: Sorry to interrupt. Where is the evidence of the substantive Director?

The evidence of the substantive Director is on volume six, page three.

Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: So, Mary Karimi Kimaitha by that appointment letter is the substantive officer?

Yes. Mary Karimi Kimaitha is the Substantive Director of that department.

Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: Is it proper or legal for the County Secretary to appoint another person to act in a position where there is a substantive office holder?

It is not procedural and it also amounts to misuse of resources.

Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: What does the County Government Act say with respect to the acting appointments?

The County Government Act, Section 69 (2) (a) , stipulates that you cannot appoint or re-designate an officer to act in a position that is not vacant.

Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: That is the appointment of?

That is the Director Human Resource. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: Madam Temporary Speaker, that is in the County Assembly list and bundle of authorities on page 57 of County Government Act, Section 69. You can read the provision.

On Page 48 of Volume III of the bundle of documents. I am reading Section 69 (2) . It says-

“A public officer shall not be re-designated to own or act in a public office if-

You cannot. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: Does that apply to Sabina Gatumi as well?

Yes, Madam Temporary Speaker. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: Who is Sabina Gatumi as per page one of your volume Six; the Further Assembly Documents?

According to my documents, Sabina Gatumi is the substantive Payroll Manager.

Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: She is the substantive payroll manager. Is that correct?

Services, Senate.

Services, Senate.

An officer by the name Solomon Mugera has been deployed to act in that office, whereas Sabina Gatumi is the substantive holder of this position.

Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: Madam Temporary Speaker, turn with me to page 189 of our Volume II These minutes were prepared and signed by the County Secretary for the County Human Resource Management Advisory Committee. One of the persons present is Mr. Solomon Mugera. Is that correct?

Yes, Madam Temporary Speaker. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: He is present as the acting payroll manager?

Yes, Madam Temporary Speaker. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: The same is replicated at page 188?

Yes, Madam Temporary Speaker. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: These are the appointments that were done by this notorious County Secretary that you said has hampered service delivery as you have even seen in the videos from the hospital and elsewhere?

Yes, Madam Temporary Speaker. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: Madam Temporary Speaker, I will request that some video clips in the governor's videos be played.

You may proceed. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: That is video number seven. Foremost, Madam Witness, you told us that there is a person who was speaking, purporting to be the Secretary General of the Bus Party. Do you know him?

Yes, Madam Temporary Speaker. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: Is he a Member of the County Assembly (MCA) ?

No, Madam Temporary Speaker. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: You said you are aware of the person who is legally recognized as the Secretary General of the Bus Party?

Yes, Madam Temporary Speaker. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: What is his name?

Yes, Madam Temporary Speaker. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: Have they been victimized by the County Assembly?

No, Madam Temporary Speaker. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: Have they been removed from any committees?

Services, Senate.

Services, Senate.

Yes, Madam Temporary Speaker. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: Is there any of them who is a chair of any committee, and is member of the Bus Party?

Yes, Madam Temporary Speaker. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: What is his name?

One of them is my chair in the Sectoral Committee on Youth, Gender, and Social Development. She is Hon. Makena Murogocho.

Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: She is a member of the Bus Party, who openly supports the governor?

Who supports the governor even in this impeachment. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: She has not been victimized.

Yes, Madam Temporary Speaker. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: Okay. So, all that gentleman appears to say in that video, that MCAs should take instructions from him, and the party is going to take action against members who appear to support the governor. Has action been taken against the said Jennifer Murogocho?

No. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: She is the chairperson of the Committee on Youth, Gender, and Community Services as indicated on page 18 of your Volume VI. Is that correct?

Yes, Madam Temporary Speaker. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: Who is the other member of the Bus Party?

There is Hon. Felix Kithinji Mwirigi on page 23. He is the Chairperson of the Sectoral Committee on Transport, Energy, and Public Works.

Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: He has equally not been victimized despite being a member of the Bus Party?

Yes, Madam Temporary Speaker. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: You also said that you received a letter from Cleophas Malala directing you to withdraw the Motion.

Yes, Madam Temporary Speaker. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: Would you say that you were intimidated and threatened to withdraw the Motion?

Yes, it was a form of intimidation. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: Did you succumb to that intimidation?

I did not. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: Has the County Assembly succumbed to intimidation by that gentleman who was speaking in that video?

No, Madam Temporary Speaker. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: Is that an attempt by the Governor to shift attention from the real issues?

Services, Senate.

Services, Senate.

I had already granted that permission. Can the video be played, please?

Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: I am sorry for that, Madam Temporary Speaker. It is video number 12 and 13 of the governor’s videos. I am coming to this in a moment. Yes, that is the correct one.

Madam Temporary Speaker, the video can be paused.

Is the translator here? Is it interpreted? Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: The useful part that I want to cross-examine her on was played in English.

Very well. So, it is the part that was in English only?

Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: Yes, Madam Temporary Speaker.

That is okay. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: Video No.13 in the governor's videos can also be played.

Video number 13.

Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: That is video No.12.

Is that 12 or 13? If that is 12, then, can you play 13?

Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: Yes, that one.

Services, Senate.

The Interpreter (Mr. Duncan Gitonga): Bw. Spika, jina langu ni Gitonga Kabori. Nitapeana tafsiri iliyo kwenye kanda inayoendelea sasa.

Anasema amefurahi kwa sababu hakuna mtu yeyote analipa kodi katika Kaunti ya Meru, kule Maua. Na hakuna siku watarudi tena kulipa hata hizo chuma zikiuzwa skrepu.

Chuma zile ziko kule, ziuzwe zikiwa nini? Zikiwa skrepu. Tunaenda kutangaza ya kwamba hakuna mahali kwingine kodi italipwa. Tuje tukapeane pesa zetu ziende kutolewa kama hongo kwa Maseneta. Hatutafanya hivyo kwa mara nyingine.

Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: Madam witness, I have played that video from the governor’s record of videos, you said you know the gentleman talking in that video?

Services, Senate.

The Interpreter (Mr. Duncan Gitonga): Bw. Spika, jina langu ni Gitonga Kabori. Nitapeana tafsiri iliyo kwenye kanda inayoendelea sasa.

Anasema amefurahi kwa sababu hakuna mtu yeyote analipa kodi katika Kaunti ya Meru, kule Maua. Na hakuna siku watarudi tena kulipa hata hizo chuma zikiuzwa skrepu.

Chuma zile ziko kule, ziuzwe zikiwa nini? Zikiwa skrepu. Tunaenda kutangaza ya kwamba hakuna mahali kwingine kodi italipwa. Tuje tukapeane pesa zetu ziende kutolewa kama hongo kwa Maseneta. Hatutafanya hivyo kwa mara nyingine.

Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: Madam witness, I have played that video from the governor’s record of videos, you said you know the gentleman talking in that video?

Yes. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: You said he is not the Secretary General of the Party. What would you say his role is in the Party? Does he have a role in the Party?

I am not aware. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: To the best of your knowledge, you would say he is an imposter?

He could be. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: Are you aware that he has a role in the Party?

Counsel, hold on. The Senate Minority Leader, what is the issue? The Senate Minority Leader (

No, Madam Temporary Speaker. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: Is he an elected leader in Meru?

He is not. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: So, to the best of your knowledge, has any of the Members who appended signatures in support of the impeachment Motion coerced by that gentleman?

No. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: A few minutes ago, you have confirmed that even three members of the Party he purports to come from support the governor.

Yes. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: They have not been victimized or removed from any of the committees of the County Assembly and some of them are even chairpersons of those committees.

Yes. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: Would you say that you have been coerced or succumbed to any pressures to move the Impeachment Motion?

No. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: A few minutes ago, you have confirmed that even three members of the Party he purports to come from support the governor.

Yes. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: They have not been victimized or removed from any of the committees of the County Assembly and some of them are even chairpersons of those committees.

Yes. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: Would you say that you have been coerced or succumbed to any pressures to move the Impeachment Motion?

No. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: You were specially nominated on which Party?

The UDA Party. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: Okay. Before I yield the witness for cross- examination, I ask that video No. 7 of the governor’s videos be played.

Play video No.7. Counsel, you have now done three hours.

The translator? The Interpreter

: Madam Temporary Speaker, my name is Gitonga Kabori. I request the video to be replayed again.

Ninaweza sema kuwa impeachment ya gavana, nataka kuelezea Wameru. Hiyo impeachment ya gavana ni shughuli yao kwenye Bunge la Kaunti ya Meru. Hio ni kama biashara yao. Na wanaweza kuimpeach mara nyingi yenye imebaki.

Sasa, naweza sema mambo hiyo ya drafting na kupanga Wabunge, alikua mmoja wao pale. Ni yeye alikua apeleke hio Motion Meru. Ni yeye alikua wakupeleka hio Motion wa kwanza mpaka pale dakika za mwisho.

Kama ulisikiza Evans Mawira vyema akiongea, alisema alikua na hakika kabisa kwamba gavana ataenda. Kwa hivyo, alipokua na huo uhakika kabisa kwamba gavana atatolewa, akaichangamkia akaichukua ndio aweze kupewa hio heshima.

Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: What is the context of the things that you said in that video?

Hon. Zipporah Kinya: I cannot remember because it was an interview of one full hour. You can see it is just an extract of a very short part of my full interview and the video is not dated. I cannot even remember which date was that. I talked about so many governance issues.

That is why I am saying that our business is to oversight the county government of Meru. I believe the law does not limit the many times of I oversight the county government of Meru.

No. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: You were specially nominated on which Party?

The UDA Party. Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: Okay. Before I yield the witness for cross- examination, I ask that video No. 7 of the governor’s videos be played.

Play video No.7. Counsel, you have now done three hours.

The translator? The Interpreter

: Madam Temporary Speaker, my name is Gitonga Kabori. I request the video to be replayed again.

Ninaweza sema kuwa impeachment ya gavana, nataka kuelezea Wameru. Hiyo impeachment ya gavana ni shughuli yao kwenye Bunge la Kaunti ya Meru. Hio ni kama biashara yao. Na wanaweza kuimpeach mara nyingi yenye imebaki.

Sasa, naweza sema mambo hiyo ya drafting na kupanga Wabunge, alikua mmoja wao pale. Ni yeye alikua apeleke hio Motion Meru. Ni yeye alikua wakupeleka hio Motion wa kwanza mpaka pale dakika za mwisho.

Kama ulisikiza Evans Mawira vyema akiongea, alisema alikua na hakika kabisa kwamba gavana ataenda. Kwa hivyo, alipokua na huo uhakika kabisa kwamba gavana atatolewa, akaichangamkia akaichukua ndio aweze kupewa hio heshima.

Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: What is the context of the things that you said in that video?

Hon. Zipporah Kinya: I cannot remember because it was an interview of one full hour. You can see it is just an extract of a very short part of my full interview and the video is not dated. I cannot even remember which date was that. I talked about so many governance issues.

That is why I am saying that our business is to oversight the county government of Meru. I believe the law does not limit the many times of I oversight the county government of Meru.

Thank you. Now, Counsel for governor, it is your turn for cross-examination.

Mr. Elisha Ongoya: Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker.

Counsel, how much time do you think you will require for this?

Mr. Elisha Ongoya: That is why I came here. My learned colleague, Mr Mutuma, is the one cross-examining, but I came here to seek direction on the question of time.

The reason being, at the very least, it is not asking for too much to ask for equality of terms. It is the bare minimum the law expects of us. The County Assembly has done something very unique.

They have taken three hours and 10 minutes on this witness, out of the four hours allocated for the entire County Assembly case. Meaning that even if we took the remainder of their entire time, we are not even getting a third of the time they have taken with this witness.

My learned colleague, Mr. Mutuma, would have desired to have at least half the time the County Assembly took with this witness to do justice.

We are not asking for the same time. We are asking for half the time. Madam Temporary Speaker, we urge that you give direction on that question.

On the videos of the gentleman called Alhaji, I would like to say that it is really unfortunate and uncalled for. Those sentiments do not represent the feelings of the Assembly and the feelings or the view of the people of Meru.

I believe he made those remarks on his behalf. I believe the people of Meru, including the County Assembly of Meru have a lot of confidence in this House. That is why we have come again and again so that we can get a reprieve from this House. I regret those comments from Alhaji, and on behalf of the County Assembly of Meru, those comments are highly regrettable.

Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: Thank you, Madam Witness. Thank you, Madam Speaker. I yield the witness for cross-examination by the governor's team.

Thank you. Now, Counsel for governor, it is your turn for cross-examination.

Mr. Elisha Ongoya: Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker.

Counsel, how much time do you think you will require for this?

Mr. Elisha Ongoya: That is why I came here. My learned colleague, Mr Mutuma, is the one cross-examining, but I came here to seek direction on the question of time.

The reason being, at the very least, it is not asking for too much to ask for equality of terms. It is the bare minimum the law expects of us. The County Assembly has done something very unique.

They have taken three hours and 10 minutes on this witness, out of the four hours allocated for the entire County Assembly case. Meaning that even if we took the remainder of their entire time, we are not even getting a third of the time they have taken with this witness.

My learned colleague, Mr. Mutuma, would have desired to have at least half the time the County Assembly took with this witness to do justice.

We are not asking for the same time. We are asking for half the time. Madam Temporary Speaker, we urge that you give direction on that question.

As a follow-up of that point, which has also concerned me as a Senator sitting in this hearing, we had an application under the Third Schedule, Rule 10 for the County Assembly asking for three more witnesses. However, they have already spent their time. The Speaker had indicated four hours. So, I just wanted to know whether they intend to bring the other three witnesses or what is it. We need direction because it seems like they have exhausted their time.

I submit.

The Counsel for the governor, can we begin by giving you one hour for cross-examination? We can review, should you require some more time.

Mr. Elisha Ongoya: Thank you so much, Madam Temporary Speaker. My colleague, Mr. Elias Mutuma, will take on the witness in cross-examination.

On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker.

Yes, Sen. Omtatah?

Madam Temporary Speaker, as somebody who believes in human rights, I do not think it is fair for us to keep a witness standing for so many hours. You have seen even proceedings in the United States Senate, witnesses are cross- examined sitting.

I have seen this lady trying to lie on the rostrum. I do not know if it is fair to keep somebody standing for three hours and then it is under cross-examination for an hour or two hours. It will not be good for the health of that person.

Sen. Omtatah, I do not think there is a rule that says she cannot sit, and she has not requested. Witness, you may sit down during cross-examination.

Thank you.

On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker.

Sen. Wafula, what is the issue?

Asante, Bi. Spika wa Muda. Sisi Maseneta ni kama Majaji katika kesi hii. Ni vyema tupate mwelekeo iwapo majaji wataweza kupea mwelekeo mshukiwa ama mshtakiwa jinsi ya kukabiliana na mwenzake katika hafla ya kujitetea.

Asante.

Sen. Wafula, the procedure was properly guided by the Speaker at the beginning. It is time for the governor’s counsel to do cross-examination. Let us allow that to happen.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Madam Temporary Speaker, may I seek your guidance on whether during the cross-examination, our time stops running or it will still eat into our time? I am most humbled.

The Speaker guided very clearly. Cross-examination is part of your time.

Sen. Beth Syengo, proceed.

Asante, Bi. Spika wa Muda. Sisi Maseneta ni kama Majaji katika kesi hii. Ni vyema tupate mwelekeo iwapo majaji wataweza kupea mwelekeo mshukiwa ama mshtakiwa jinsi ya kukabiliana na mwenzake katika hafla ya kujitetea.

Asante.

Sen. Wafula, the procedure was properly guided by the Speaker at the beginning. It is time for the governor’s counsel to do cross-examination. Let us allow that to happen.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Madam Temporary Speaker, may I seek your guidance on whether during the cross-examination, our time stops running or it will still eat into our time? I am most humbled.

The Speaker guided very clearly. Cross-examination is part of your time.

Sen. Beth Syengo, proceed.

Good evening. Mr. Elias Mutuma: Kindly confirm your full names and what you do at the Meru County Assembly.

My full name is Zipporah Kinya. I am a Member of the Meru County Assembly, specially elected by the United Democratic Alliance (UDA) and the Deputy Majority Leader.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: Indeed, you have previously served as a member of the executive in the previous regimes. That is right?

Yes. Mr. Elias Mutuma: In what capacity?

I served as a sub-county administrator, then later redesignated as the deputy director administration until I exited.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: When were you appointed as a subcounty administrator?

In 2013. Mr. Elias Mutuma: Which governor appointed you in that position?

Hon. Munya. Mr. Elias Mutuma: Did the next governor also retain you in that position? That was governor Kiraitu Murungi.

I was redesignated in 2018 to a deputy director of administration.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: Thank you. Briefly give us the composition of party membership in the Meru County Assembly. How many parties and Members are there in the county?

In Meru County Assembly, we are 69 Members. The UDA has 21 Members while the “Mbus” Party has 20 Members. I am not sure of the numbers of the remaining parties.

Hon. Munya. Mr. Elias Mutuma: Did the next governor also retain you in that position? That was governor Kiraitu Murungi.

I was redesignated in 2018 to a deputy director of administration.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: Thank you. Briefly give us the composition of party membership in the Meru County Assembly. How many parties and Members are there in the county?

In Meru County Assembly, we are 69 Members. The UDA has 21 Members while the “Mbus” Party has 20 Members. I am not sure of the numbers of the remaining parties.

It was 85 per cent according to public participation. Mr. Elias Mutuma: Have you brought the memorandum and report of that public participation?

Yes. Mr. Elias Mutuma: That is the basis for your claim that 85 per cent have supported the impeachment, right?

Yes. Mr. Elias Mutuma: I want you to have a look at that report briefly. That is Volume 5 of the Meru County Assembly’s bundle of documents. I want you to go straight to page 286.

Yes, I am there. Mr. Elias Mutuma: I want us to identify the anomaly in that minute. According to the title of that meeting, when did the meeting start? First of all, tell us where that public participation exercise took place. Which ward was it?

It was at Kionyo Social Hall. Mr. Elias Mutuma: What time is indicated at the top as the time when the meeting began?

It is indicated 10.00 a.m. Mr. Elias Mutuma: Can you look at Minute No.1? What time does the minutes show that the meeting began?

I can read Minute No.101. The officers of Meru County Assembly arrived at the venue for public participation at 8.00 a.m.---

Mr. Elias Mutuma: It says 10.00 a.m.

They arrived at 8.00 a.m.--- Mr. Elias Mutuma: Kindly wait for my question. What time does it indicate the meeting began as per Minute No.1?

It is 10.00 a.m. Mr. Elias Mutuma: However, at the top, it shows that it began at 8.00 a.m., correct?

No. The first page says that it is officers of Meru County Assembly who arrived at 8.00 a.m.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: Correct. It is the other way round. The top shows 10.00 a.m., correct?

Yes. Mr. Elias Mutuma: Is that the position?

It is 10.00 a.m. Mr. Elias Mutuma: However, at the top, it shows that it began at 8.00 a.m., correct?

No. The first page says that it is officers of Meru County Assembly who arrived at 8.00 a.m.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: Correct. It is the other way round. The top shows 10.00 a.m., correct?

Yes. Mr. Elias Mutuma: Is that the position?

Counsel, I dispute that. The minutes says officers of the County Assembly arrived at the venue for public participation at 8.00 a.m.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: Thank you very much.

Then at 10.00 a.m., the meeting was called to order. Mr. Elias Mutuma: Can we go to page 291? Can you confirm that the same format of capturing minutes appears at page 291? Tell us where that meeting took place and how the minutes were captured.

The meeting took place at MCK Kithare, Njia Ward, in Meru County at 10.00 a.m.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: Minute No.1?

Counsel, I dispute that. The minutes says officers of the County Assembly arrived at the venue for public participation at 8.00 a.m.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: Thank you very much.

Then at 10.00 a.m., the meeting was called to order. Mr. Elias Mutuma: Can we go to page 291? Can you confirm that the same format of capturing minutes appears at page 291? Tell us where that meeting took place and how the minutes were captured.

The meeting took place at MCK Kithare, Njia Ward, in Meru County at 10.00 a.m.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: Minute No.1?

The meeting was called to order by Mr. Raphael Mwenda at 10.00 a.m., and a prayer was said by Ms. Kirimi Kabubania, a member of the public.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: Compare that with what appears at pages 297 and 299. Is it the same that has been captured?

It reads: Officers of the County Assembly arrived at the venue for public participation at 8.00 a.m. and at 10.00 a.m. the meeting was called to order.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: Thank you. Now, let us read Minute No.1 verbatim. Of all the minutes that I have identified, read the first paragraph. For instance, let us start with page 286, Minute No.1.

The officers of the County Assembly arrived at the venue for public participation at 8.00 a.m., and at 10.00 a.m., the meeting was called to order---

Mr. Elias Mutuma: Proceed to read the entire paragraph.

“By Mr. Kevin Mwenda from the County Assembly of Meru and a prayer was said by Mr. Mutugi from Kionyo Boda Boda Association.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: Thank you. That was page 286, now read Minute 1 on page

This one says officer of the County Assembly arrived at the venue of public participation at 8.00 a.m. At 10.00 a.m., the meeting was called to order by Godfrey Mutiga and a prayer was said by Murangiri Mbogori, a member of the public.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: Thank you. Do you find those two minutes to have got semblance word for word except for the names of individuals present?

Not really. One is talking about 8.30 a.m. and the other at

It is not true, let me read again. The officers of the County Assembly arrived at the venue at 8.00. a.m., the meeting was called to order by Kevin Mwenda from the County Assembly of Meru and a prayer said by Mr. Mutugi.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: Thank you. Can you now go to the other one?

The other one is - the officers of the County Assembly arrived at the venue for public participation at 8.00 a.m. and at 10.00 a.m. the meeting was called to order by Godfrey Mutiga. A prayer was said by Murangiri Mbogori, a member of the public. There are two different things.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: Thank you. Let us go to page 783 all through to page 794. You will confirm that those are handwritten memorandums. Right?

Yes. Mr. Elias Mutuma: Kindly look at the handwriting. Is it not the same handwriting that is presenting those memorandums?

I cannot confirm. Mr. Elias Mutuma: Apart from the names, do we have any other description of those parties such as phone and ID numbers?

The phone number, the name and the signature are there. Mr. Elias Mutuma: Thank you. We can proceed on and on but we will have time to identify all these things during cross-examination.

Let us go to the incident that you talked about- that there was an attempt to torch the County Assembly of Meru. Which date was that?

It was on the eve of 8th. Actually, it happened at around

Yes. Mr. Elias Mutuma: Kindly restrict yourself to the question.

Yes. Mr. Elias Mutuma: What date was it?

The eve of 8th August, 2024. Mr. Elias Mutuma: I am interested in the dates; which date?

It was on 7th August, 2024 at 3.00 a.m. Mr. Elias Mutuma: What time was it?

Yes. Mr. Elias Mutuma: What date was it?

The eve of 8th August, 2024. Mr. Elias Mutuma: I am interested in the dates; which date?

It was on 7th August, 2024 at 3.00 a.m. Mr. Elias Mutuma: What time was it?

It does not. Mr. Elias Mutuma: How would you explain their presence in public offices at

The MCAs were under threat. Personally, I was seriously threatened. I could not sleep at my home, so I sought refuge elsewhere.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: We have your answer.

Yes. Mr. Elias Mutuma: So, were you present at 3.00 a.m. at the County Assembly?

Yes. Mr. Elias Mutuma: Were there other members of the public present at the County Assembly at 3.00 a.m.?

I did not see them. Mr. Elias Mutuma: You did not see them.

Yes. Mr. Elias Mutuma: So, if I tell you that that fire emanated from people who were present at that time, would I be wrong?

You would be wrong. Mr. Elias Mutuma: You have just said that there were no other members, to the best of your knowledge.

Yes. Mr. Elias Mutuma: So, the people present at the County Assembly might have begun this fire?

The MCAs were inside and not outside and the fire was from outside.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: You said that the fire emanated from the Meru Law Courts, correct?

Yes. Mr. Elias Mutuma: Meru Law Courts is a secured premise, is it not?

Yes. Mr. Elias Mutuma: As a County Assembly, did you try to seek any statement from the Meru Law Courts? You have just accused them of torching the County Assembly of Meru because you said the fire emanated from the Meru Law Courts. Do you want to change your statement or do you want to stick by it?

I stick by that statement. Mr. Elias Mutuma: Did you seek any statement from the leadership of Meru Law Courts?

I did not seek any statement because I was not the investigating officer. Maybe the investigating officer did.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: You did not.

Yes. Mr. Elias Mutuma: As a County Assembly, did you try to seek any statement from the Meru Law Courts? You have just accused them of torching the County Assembly of Meru because you said the fire emanated from the Meru Law Courts. Do you want to change your statement or do you want to stick by it?

I stick by that statement. Mr. Elias Mutuma: Did you seek any statement from the leadership of Meru Law Courts?

I did not seek any statement because I was not the investigating officer. Maybe the investigating officer did.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: You did not.

I only attributed it to the person working in the Office of the Governor who said---

Mr. Elias Mutuma: Thank you. My question is simple about the people who were arraigned in court. You produced material evidence in the form of video.

Yes. Mr. Elias Mutuma: Among the people arraigned in court, which one of them is a supporter of the governor, by name and description?

I did not allege that they are the ones. I said they are the supporters of the governor.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: You are now withdrawing that statement.

I am not withdrawing. I alleged that those who threatened to do it are supporters of the governor. Indeed, I did not say those that are arraigned are the ones.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: So, you are now withdrawing that statement. It is on record that governor’s supporters torched the County Assembly of Meru and you brought evidence.

I am asking you, Madam Zipporah, which one of them is a supporter of the governor, by name and description?

I did not say those that are charged are the ones who are the supporters of the governor. I actually talked about the staff from the office of the governor who said, “atachoma”.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: We are going to the staff that you talked about.

Yes. Mr. Elias Mutuma: So, would you now want to confirm to the Senate that, indeed, there were no supporters of the governor charged with torching the Assembly?

Yes, I can confirm because I said there are some people who are charged for the offence.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: You have just said that they are not governor’s supporters?

Yes. Mr. Elias Mutuma: Thank you.

Those charged.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: Thank you very much. Let us go to the specific officer from the office of the governor. What was the name of the officer?

I do not know the official names, but he is popularly known as Gachigi.

Yes. Mr. Elias Mutuma: Thank you.

Those charged.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: Thank you very much. Let us go to the specific officer from the office of the governor. What was the name of the officer?

I do not know the official names, but he is popularly known as Gachigi.

He has not been charged. Mr. Elias Mutuma: Any report that has been made?

I am not aware of any. Mr. Elias Mutuma: Madam witness, have you filed any report because you came to the Senate and alleged that he threatened Members of the County Assembly (MCAs) and he was among the people who planned to torch. Have you made any efforts to have him arrested including even filing a report?

An Occurance Book (OB) has been recorded. Mr. Elias Mutuma: Where is that OB?

An OB was recorded by--- Mr. Elias Mutuma: I ask you specifically. Have you taken any steps? Not an OB. Have you personally taken any steps?

Personally, I have not, but the County Assembly has taken.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: Thank you. You also played a clip showing your home being torched.

Yes. Mr. Elias Mutuma: What time was it?

It was torched on the eve of the first impeachment Motion.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: What time was it?

3.48 a.m. Mr. Elias Mutuma: And you say that was on the eve of the first impeachment Motion?

Yes. Mr. Elias Mutuma: You said the fire emanated from your neighbor's place.

Yes, from the neighbour across. Mr. Elias Mutuma: You told Senators and we were listening - and the Hansard can confirm - that the fire emanated from your neighbor's home.

Not neighbour's home. I said the fire was from my fence. Mr. Elias Mutuma: We were very keen Madam Speaker and we can have the Hansard read to us. You said it began from your neighbor's home.

I did not say the neighbor's home but from my fence. If the fire was thrown from across the fence---

Mr. Elias Mutuma: That fence is adjacent to a neighbor, is it not?

Yes.

Not neighbour's home. I said the fire was from my fence. Mr. Elias Mutuma: We were very keen Madam Speaker and we can have the Hansard read to us. You said it began from your neighbor's home.

I did not say the neighbor's home but from my fence. If the fire was thrown from across the fence---

Mr. Elias Mutuma: That fence is adjacent to a neighbor, is it not?

Yes.

I know the other neighbour who sold it recently. I know the previous owner of that plot. I can tell who he is.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: But you confirm there is a neighbor?

Yes, there is a neighbour. Mr. Elias Mutuma: Did you--- Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I see counsel trying to coach the witness. That is very unbecoming of an advocate. We should have known what counsel is trying to tell the witness. That cannot be permitted.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I am trying to control the witness for ease of clarity. I am telling her to be straight to the questions asked. The normal way of controlling a witness.

Very well. Witness, please only respond to the questions asked.

Okay. Mr. Elias Mutuma: Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Do you confirm that there is a neighbour adjacent to your fence?

Yes. Mr. Elias Mutuma: You do not know the name of your neighbour?

The name of the new neighbor, but I know the old neighbor who sold the plot recently. I can give the name.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: Did you go to this neighbour that you do not know and consult him or her about the source of the fire?

The plot is vacant. There is no home. It is not habited. Mr. Elias Mutuma: The question is, did you visit them or try to investigate who owns that plot?

I tried to investigate, but I have not yet known who bought it.

The name of the new neighbor, but I know the old neighbor who sold the plot recently. I can give the name.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: Did you go to this neighbour that you do not know and consult him or her about the source of the fire?

The plot is vacant. There is no home. It is not habited. Mr. Elias Mutuma: The question is, did you visit them or try to investigate who owns that plot?

I tried to investigate, but I have not yet known who bought it.

Yes.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: That is minutes before the fire incident, right?

Yes.

Proceed. Mr. Elias Mutuma: Madam Temporary Speaker, the clip is still playing. So, by now, we have no one at the scene, right?

Yes, there is no one. Mr. Elias Mutuma: There is a gentleman who walks in. Kindly tell us who that gentleman is.

My watchman. Mr. Elias Mutuma: Does your watchman look panicked?

Yes. Mr. Elias Mutuma: We cannot see that.

To me, he is. Mr. Elias Mutuma: Do you confirm that you were home on that day?

I was not at home. Mr. Elias Mutuma: I confirm you saying that you were woken up by your worker to inform you about the incident.

I did not say that. Mr. Elias Mutuma: We will confirm from the HANSARD.

I was not at home. Mr. Elias Mutuma: So, you are now confirming you were not?

I was not at home. Mr. Elias Mutuma: Thank you. So, by now, there is still no one putting off the fire and the gentleman is walking easily where the fire incident is. Let us see how many buckets of water those are. That is one, three--- There is another one and the fire is off.

Do you confirm that that was a petrol bomb? That is what you told us.

I did not say that. Mr. Elias Mutuma: We will confirm from the HANSARD.

I was not at home. Mr. Elias Mutuma: So, you are now confirming you were not?

I was not at home. Mr. Elias Mutuma: Thank you. So, by now, there is still no one putting off the fire and the gentleman is walking easily where the fire incident is. Let us see how many buckets of water those are. That is one, three--- There is another one and the fire is off.

Do you confirm that that was a petrol bomb? That is what you told us.

I mentioned it in the Hansard--- Mr. Elias Mutuma: Have you attached a copy of the OB because you knew you were going to rely on that clip? Have you attached the OB report?

It is in the HANSARD. Mr. Elias Mutuma: Yes, or no? Have you attached?

I have not. Mr. Elias Mutuma: So, this Senate has no way of confirming whether there was any formal report or investigations done in respect to that incident? They have no way of doing that, is it not?

Okay--- Mr. Elias Mutuma: It is a yes or no answer. They have no way of confirming that.

Yes. Mr. Elias Mutuma: They have no way. I put it to you, madam witness that what we have just watched is a stage-managed incident and we can all tell that. What do you say?

It is not. Mr. Elias Mutuma: Thank you. You have also talked about a number of incidents where residents of Meru have complained about the governance structure of madam governor here. You have specifically talked about an incident where there was a birth that took place near Kiguchwa Hospital. Do you remember that?

Yes. Mr. Elias Mutuma: Kindly confirm the status of that hospital. What level is that hospital? What kind of a hospital is it?

It is a Level 3 hospital according to the complaints of the people of Kiguchwa.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: It is not “according”. Madam witness, you investigated the governor and the evidence you brought here are subject to investigations. With surety, tell us what level of hospital that facility is.

Level 3. Mr. Elias Mutuma: It does not have a maternity wing, does it?

I am not sure. Mr. Elias Mutuma: I am putting it to you that it is a dispensary without a maternity wing. Is that the position?

I am not sure. Mr. Elias Mutuma: If it does not have a maternity wing, then there was no way a woman would have gone there to give birth, is it not?

Level 3. Mr. Elias Mutuma: It does not have a maternity wing, does it?

I am not sure. Mr. Elias Mutuma: I am putting it to you that it is a dispensary without a maternity wing. Is that the position?

I am not sure. Mr. Elias Mutuma: If it does not have a maternity wing, then there was no way a woman would have gone there to give birth, is it not?

It is not part of my allegation, but compromised service delivery.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: So, it is not part of your allegation?

It is a support of the compromised service delivery. Mr. Elias Mutuma: Do you, however, confirm that you did not bring the Governor here to answer to those charges? That is what you have just told us.

I confirm it is part of this delivery of service that has been compromised through illegal appointments.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: You have also talked about 20 cows dying in a certain Ward in Meru County. Which ward was that?

It is Kwene Ward. Mr. Elias Mutuma: In your impeachment Motion, kindly refer me to the charge where the Governor is being accused of that specific allegation. I do not even know the name of that allegation. In your impeachment Motion and supporting evidence, show me exactly where you have accused the Governor of that mismanagement of public resources. Is there anywhere?

I did that. That video was meant to correct the video that was presented as defense for the Governor, which also is not part of the allegations.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: So, you have not brought the Governor to the Senate to answer to those charges, have you?

Yes, because that is not part of my charges.It is only that the Governor defended herself through the wrong videos too.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: Thank you.

I said, the Governor--- Mr. Elias Mutuma: I have not asked you a question, kindly.

Okay. I am sorry. Mr. Elias Mutuma: Let us proceed to the role you played in the last impeachment. We have watched a video of you saying that, indeed, you were part and parcel of that process. Is that still your position?

Yes. Mr. Elias Mutuma: So, the last impeachment Motion was meant to be brought by you. Is that your position?

Yes. Mr. Elias Mutuma: What happened that you did not proceed with the process to its logical conclusion?

The County Assembly Majority Leader, as a senior of the House, requested me to hand over the Motion to him.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: The Leader of---?

Yes. Mr. Elias Mutuma: So, the last impeachment Motion was meant to be brought by you. Is that your position?

Yes. Mr. Elias Mutuma: What happened that you did not proceed with the process to its logical conclusion?

The County Assembly Majority Leader, as a senior of the House, requested me to hand over the Motion to him.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: The Leader of---?

Yes. Mr. Elias Mutuma: The words that you have uttered are your words?

Yes. Mr. Elias Mutuma: Thank you. So, even if the Senate was to discharge the Governor this time around, you would still come back in this Senate with other charges, correct?

It depends. Let me confirm that if the Governor does not continue the violations, we cannot bring her back. Indeed, it is because those violations continued, even when the case was here in the Senate. That is why I said that. If the Governor stops the violations, then we are good to go as Meru County.

I cannot confirm that I will come back because maybe the Governor may decide not to violate the Constitution anymore.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: Do you have any personal vendetta against the Governor?

No. Mr. Elias Mutuma: Do you think she is a mad woman?

No. Mr. Elias Mutuma: Do you think she is crazy?

No. Mr. Elias Mutuma: Can we watch video VKM09? Madam Temporary Speaker, we might need an interpreter for this specific video.

Serjeant-at-Arms, please usher in the interpreter.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: Before we hear from the video, what is your background training, professionally?

Professionally, I am a trained teacher. Mr. Elias Mutuma: You actually served as a principal of a school, is that not so?

Yes. Mr. Elias Mutuma: Do you have any training in medical health?

No. Mr. Elias Mutuma: Mental health?

No.

Yes. Mr. Elias Mutuma: Do you have any training in medical health?

No. Mr. Elias Mutuma: Mental health?

Mr. Elias Mutuma: Psychology?

Services, Senate.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: Psychiatric training?

was ushered into the Chamber)

Mr. Elias Mutuma: Psychology?

No. Mr. Elias Mutuma: Thank you.

Is the interpreter there?

was ushered into the Chamber)

It was taken out of context.

Witness, please answer the question.

Sen. Khalwale, what is your point of order?

Madam Temporary Speaker, as one of my colleagues who will be making a decision based on this evidence, could you remind the witness that she is under Oath. Can she, therefore, stick to one side of whatever it is she wants to tell us?

Witness, you are under oath. Please, stick to telling the truth while under that oath.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: Do you want me to remind you of the question?

Witness, please answer the question.

Sen. Khalwale, what is your point of order?

Madam Temporary Speaker, as one of my colleagues who will be making a decision based on this evidence, could you remind the witness that she is under Oath. Can she, therefore, stick to one side of whatever it is she wants to tell us?

Witness, you are under oath. Please, stick to telling the truth while under that oath.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: Do you want me to remind you of the question?

Yes, I appeared. Mr. Elias Mutuma: What is the name of the media house?

Weru TV. Mr. Elias Mutuma: Do you do know it is a national TV, popularly watched in Meru County?

Yes. Mr. Elias Mutuma: Thank you. So, were you lying? I will repeat the question. Were you lying to the people of Meru, or are you lying to Senators now when you say that you do not think the Governor is mad? You must have been lying to at least one of those people.

I said I was taken out of context. Mr. Elias Mutuma: Did you explain your context in that clip?

Yes, I did because the interview was for one full hour. Mr. Elias Mutuma: Thank you. We supplied you with this video on Friday. We are appearing before the Senate on Monday. Have you sought leave of this Senate to produce the full clip where the context is explained?

I did not seek leave because the video is even not dated. I have done so many interviews in Weru TV, and because the video is not dated, I could not even remember the date of the video.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: The date notwithstanding, have you confirmed that you appeared on that show and uttered those words?

Yes, I did. Mr. Elias Mutuma: However, you have not sought leave to produce that full clip even by asking the specific TV station to provide you with one.

I did. Mr. Elias Mutuma: You have not.

I asked Weru TV and they told me it is not possible unless I get a date for the video.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: Where is the evidence of that request?

I just made a call, and they could not trace the video. Mr. Elias Mutuma: Thank you. The mover of this Motion is yourself, Madam witness.

Yes. Mr. Elias Mutuma: You have made it your business to impeach the governor and there is actually a direct financial benefit to you and other members of the County Assembly who impeached the governor. Is that correct?

No, not correct.

I just made a call, and they could not trace the video. Mr. Elias Mutuma: Thank you. The mover of this Motion is yourself, Madam witness.

Yes. Mr. Elias Mutuma: You have made it your business to impeach the governor and there is actually a direct financial benefit to you and other members of the County Assembly who impeached the governor. Is that correct?

No, not correct.

Madam Temporary Speaker the clip says that it is the business of the Assembly not private.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: Business in Kiswahili Language is biashara, true or false?

We transact business using the County Assembly. Mr. Elias Mutuma: Is it true or false that business is biashara in Kiswahili? You are versed in the Kiswahili Language. Is it true or false?

Madam Temporary Speaker, business is biashara in Kiswahili.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: You have also said that hon. Mawira took away your glory of trying to impeach the Governor and that is why you ended up with the Motion. You were involved with the drafting until hon. Mawira took the glory. Is that what you said?

Madam Temporary Speaker, he took the Motion from me.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: You have said that he took the Motion from you and got the glory of impeaching the Governor. Is that not what you have said?

I have said that--- Mr. Elias Mutuma: Do you want us to play that clip again?

It can be played because I said, Hon. Mawira took away the Motion from me and he told the people of Meru that he took the Motion because he was sure the governor was going---

Mr. Elias Mutuma: You want us to replay that clip again, where you are saying that he took the glory of trying to impeach the governor? Have you heard yourself say that hon. Mawira took the glory?

He was taking the glory; not me. You are confused since I am not the one who is taking the glory, it is Hon. Mawira.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: So, two issues, Madam witness. The Motion process in Meru County is biashara, and secondly, there is a glory attached to it. I want to take you there shortly. One, tell us, you have just told us that you drafted the Motion. You are not a lawyer, are you?

I have said that--- Mr. Elias Mutuma: Do you want us to play that clip again?

It can be played because I said, Hon. Mawira took away the Motion from me and he told the people of Meru that he took the Motion because he was sure the governor was going---

Mr. Elias Mutuma: You want us to replay that clip again, where you are saying that he took the glory of trying to impeach the governor? Have you heard yourself say that hon. Mawira took the glory?

He was taking the glory; not me. You are confused since I am not the one who is taking the glory, it is Hon. Mawira.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: So, two issues, Madam witness. The Motion process in Meru County is biashara, and secondly, there is a glory attached to it. I want to take you there shortly. One, tell us, you have just told us that you drafted the Motion. You are not a lawyer, are you?

I drafted it; even this other one. I am not a lawyer; I am a teacher and I am aware of the violations.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: Did you have any help from a lawyer to draft that Motion?

Of course, I got the help of a lawyer. Mr. Elias Mutuma: For legal services at a pay? You must have paid your lawyer to do that. Do not worry. I am not asking you how much, but you must have paid your lawyer for that.

I did not pay anything. Mr. Elias Mutuma: You did not pay anything?

Yes. Mr. Elias Mutuma: Is that the same lawyer representing you before the Senate today?

No. Mr. Elias Mutuma: Which lawyer helped you draft the Motion?

It is the lawyer who represented the County Assembly in the last proceedings.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: Which process you were involved in? That is what you just told us; you were involved in the previous Motion as well?

Yes. Mr. Elias Mutuma: Including the drafting?

Yes. Mr. Elias Mutuma: So, the lawyer who represented you in the last impeachment process was the lawyer who drafted the Motion for you?

Madam Temporary Speaker, he assisted me in drafting the Motion.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: Subsequently, he represented the County Assembly.

Yes, because I was doing it on behalf of the County Assembly.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: Let us talk about your appearance here today.

Yes. Mr. Elias Mutuma: You are seated here today and you are earning allowances for conducting this business, correct? True or false?

Not true. Mr. Elias Mutuma: You are earning per diems today.

Not true. I have not earned any. I have not been facilitated by anybody to come here. I represented myself.

Yes. Mr. Elias Mutuma: You are seated here today and you are earning allowances for conducting this business, correct? True or false?

Not true. Mr. Elias Mutuma: You are earning per diems today.

Not true. I have not earned any. I have not been facilitated by anybody to come here. I represented myself.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I am not aware. Mr. Elias Mutuma: You did not receive any funds during the impeachment process during the last three processes, you have not? Not even a single coin?

Madam Temporary Speaker, I cannot remember because there are so many payments that are made in the County Assembly. I cannot remember whether I was paid for coming for impeachment. What I am saying is that right now as I sit here, I have not received anything.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: You have not received anything?

Yes.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: We have looked at the Auditor-General's report. Hon. Senators, I want to refer you to page 272 of the Governor's Response, Vol.1b of our exhibits. Kindly look at the Governor's response. I want you to look at the first project that has been flagged by the Auditor-General of Meru County.

We can provide for the sake of time. Are you able to look at that specific page; Page 272, 1b? What is the first project the county government of Meru has been identified as doing by the Auditor-General?

The first activity is the Motions for the impeachment of the Governor of Meru County, two Motions for the two impeachment attempts.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: So, the Auditor-General of Kenya flags two impeachment Motions as a project of the County Assembly of Meru, correct? That would of necessity mean, public funds were utilized. Otherwise, the Auditor-General would not have deemed it fit to include it there. Correct?

Yes. Mr. Elias Mutuma: Can you tell us how much money was spent, cumulatively by the County Assembly in at least those two projects? Are you able to tell us that?

I am not aware. I do not know. Mr. Elias Mutuma: You do not know.

The first activity is the Motions for the impeachment of the Governor of Meru County, two Motions for the two impeachment attempts.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: So, the Auditor-General of Kenya flags two impeachment Motions as a project of the County Assembly of Meru, correct? That would of necessity mean, public funds were utilized. Otherwise, the Auditor-General would not have deemed it fit to include it there. Correct?

Yes. Mr. Elias Mutuma: Can you tell us how much money was spent, cumulatively by the County Assembly in at least those two projects? Are you able to tell us that?

I am not aware. I do not know. Mr. Elias Mutuma: You do not know.

Yes. Mr. Elias Mutuma: That is the committee that scrutinizes the reports by the Auditor-General, correct?

Yes. Mr. Elias Mutuma: Have you come across that report? It is on page 272, hon. Senators, of Volume 1B of the Governor's Exhibit. Perhaps, let us just scrutinize your role as a Member of the PAC. What is your main role?

My main role as a Member of the PAC is to consider reports that are committed to the Committee by the County Assembly.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: I want you to look at Article 229 (8) of the Constitution, specific to your role. Are we there? Tell us your mandate as a Member of the PAC. First of all, confirm that the Chapter talks about the report of the Auditor-General, correct?

Yes. Mr. Elias Mutuma: What is your role under Article 229 (8) of the Constitution?

Within three months after receiving an audit report, Parliament and the County Assembly shall debate and consider the report and take appropriate action.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: Thank you. As a Member of this Committee, have you discussed the report of the Auditor-General in the discharge of your mandate under that Article?

The report has not been tabled by the Chairperson. Mr. Elias Mutuma: You have relied on that report to impeach the Governor?

Yes. Mr. Elias Mutuma: Meaning you have had an opportunity to look at it, is it?

Yes. Mr. Elias Mutuma: But you have not discussed?

We have not discussed because it has not been tabled to the Committee.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: When was that report received? When did you come across this report because you are relying on this very report to show, number one, that the Governor is using a manual payroll, is it?

Yes. Mr. Elias Mutuma: Your evidence is derived from that report?

Yes. I cannot remember the date, but I got it immediately it was released by the Auditor-General.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: You confirm that you got it immediately?

Yes. Mr. Elias Mutuma: As a Member of this Committee, you have not taken any steps in the discharge of your mandate under that Article, have you?

Yes. Mr. Elias Mutuma: Your evidence is derived from that report?

Yes. I cannot remember the date, but I got it immediately it was released by the Auditor-General.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: You confirm that you got it immediately?

Yes. Mr. Elias Mutuma: As a Member of this Committee, you have not taken any steps in the discharge of your mandate under that Article, have you?

Yes. Mr. Elias Mutuma: Do you know Virginia Kawira?

Yes. Mr. Elias Mutuma: What position did she hold before becoming the Chief Executive Officer (CEO) of the board?

She was a finance officer in the Department of Finance and Economic Planning.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: She was an officer, Senior Principal Finance Officer?

Yes. Mr. Elias Mutuma: Is that a position where services are still needed within Meru County?

Yes. Mr. Elias Mutuma: Has there been any replacement of that position pursuant to her joining the County Public Service Board (CPSB) ?

I cannot confirm. Mr. Elias Mutuma: Madam witness, this is your Motion.Were you not interested in finding out whether that position was filled? The truth of the matter is that position has not been filled is it?

It was not a subject matter in my Motion. Mr. Elias Mutuma: It was not?

It was not. Mr. Elias Mutuma: You are aware that Virginia took leave of absence, correct?

Yes. Mr. Elias Mutuma: A person who takes leave of absence is still holding that position, is it? That position is not given to any other person. Am I right?

No. Mr. Elias Mutuma: It is not?

It remains vacant for the contract period. Mr. Elias Mutuma: And for how long is the contract of Virginia Kawira running?

Six years. Mr. Elias Mutuma: Six years?

Yes. Mr. Elias Mutuma: So, for six years, that position will not be occupied and there will be no service delivery in that position?

The position can be occupied by law. Mr. Elias Mutuma: How would it be occupied by law?

Six years. Mr. Elias Mutuma: Six years?

Yes. Mr. Elias Mutuma: So, for six years, that position will not be occupied and there will be no service delivery in that position?

The position can be occupied by law. Mr. Elias Mutuma: How would it be occupied by law?

Yes, one can be deployed by Public Service Management laws.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: Thank you. When was Virginia appointed as the CEO of the board? Give us the specific dates.

Legal Counsel, you only have five minutes remaining to conclude your cross-examination.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.When was she appointed? When did she assume the role of the CEO?

Ms. Virginia was appointed on 1st September, 2023. Mr. Elias Mutuma: 1st September, 2023?

Yes. Mr. Elias Mutuma: By that time, to the best of your knowledge, had Virginia relinquished her previous position when she was being appointed or even sought leave of absence by that date? When did she seek leave of absence to make things easier for you? It was on 2nd October, am I right?

Let me confirm. Mr. Elias Mutuma: Kindly, refer to our documents, hon. Senators, at Volume 1B of the Governor's response at page eight. Do you find a letter where Virginia is now seeking leave of absence on 2ndOctober? Can you see it?

I can see it. Mr. Elias Mutuma: What is the date of that letter?

2nd October, 2020. Mr. Elias Mutuma: When did Virginia assume the role of the CEO?

She was appointed on 1st September.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: 1stSeptember?

I can see it. Mr. Elias Mutuma: What is the date of that letter?

2nd October, 2020. Mr. Elias Mutuma: When did Virginia assume the role of the CEO?

She was appointed on 1st September.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: 1stSeptember?

Yes. Mr. Elias Mutuma: Thank you. You have relied on an advisory by the Board saying that the Governor's revocation was illegal, correct?

Yes.

Yes. Mr. Elias Mutuma: Do you not think that is an illegality where an officer serves in two positions without any justification?

Yes. Mr. Elias Mutuma: Thank you. You have relied on an advisory by the Board saying that the Governor's revocation was illegal, correct?

Yes.

Not true. The letter of revocation was addressed to the Chairman and it is the Chairman that responded. Nonetheless, responding to a letter does not require any minutes.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: How are decisions of the board arrived at? Is it the Chairman who makes the decision or it is subject to the board's discussion, minutes and subsequent communication done?

I do not think there is any provision of the law that requires an advisory to be discussed in a board meeting, in my own opinion.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: But you confirm that Ms. Virginia was the Secretary of the Board by the time the advisory was issued?

I confirmed she was the acting Chief Executive Officer (CEO) of the Board at that time. That disqualifies the earlier question that she served in two positions. I had forgotten, she was still appointed by the same Government as the acting CEO of the County Public Service Board (CPSB) . So, she was still at the CPSB.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: You have relied on a provision of the law to say that the revocation was illegal. What position was that? In your view, what ought to have been the right procedure?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, with your indulgence, I see my time is up. At the beginning, we had been promised that we would reconsider the timelines upon lapse. I kindly request to be given half an hour to complete.

Legal Counsels from both sides, I need to make a ruling on the time issue. This time around, we have to be very stringent to the times allocated. We had agreed that the evidence and cross-examination will take four hours. The County Assembly’s side has taken three hours on one witness. We have given one hour for cross-examination. We are left with one hour.

Legal Counsel, you will advise at this point in time, how you are going to utilize the one hour you have. Are you going to bring all the three witnesses or how are you going to allocate your time? We have to come to an agreement that we shall give the one hour left to the County Assembly to give their evidence, and then allocate the Legal Counsel of the Governor one hour to cross-examine the evidence provided by the County Assembly. Legal Counsel, how will you utilize your one hour?

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Thank you very kindly, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. In response to your question, we have two more witnesses remaining on the part of the County Assembly. That is Ms. Aurelia Murangiri Kiramana and Ms. Hyrene Kawira Kamenchu.

I do not think there is any provision of the law that requires an advisory to be discussed in a board meeting, in my own opinion.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: But you confirm that Ms. Virginia was the Secretary of the Board by the time the advisory was issued?

I confirmed she was the acting Chief Executive Officer (CEO) of the Board at that time. That disqualifies the earlier question that she served in two positions. I had forgotten, she was still appointed by the same Government as the acting CEO of the County Public Service Board (CPSB) . So, she was still at the CPSB.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: You have relied on a provision of the law to say that the revocation was illegal. What position was that? In your view, what ought to have been the right procedure?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, with your indulgence, I see my time is up. At the beginning, we had been promised that we would reconsider the timelines upon lapse. I kindly request to be given half an hour to complete.

Legal Counsels from both sides, I need to make a ruling on the time issue. This time around, we have to be very stringent to the times allocated. We had agreed that the evidence and cross-examination will take four hours. The County Assembly’s side has taken three hours on one witness. We have given one hour for cross-examination. We are left with one hour.

Legal Counsel, you will advise at this point in time, how you are going to utilize the one hour you have. Are you going to bring all the three witnesses or how are you going to allocate your time? We have to come to an agreement that we shall give the one hour left to the County Assembly to give their evidence, and then allocate the Legal Counsel of the Governor one hour to cross-examine the evidence provided by the County Assembly. Legal Counsel, how will you utilize your one hour?

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Thank you very kindly, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. In response to your question, we have two more witnesses remaining on the part of the County Assembly. That is Ms. Aurelia Murangiri Kiramana and Ms. Hyrene Kawira Kamenchu.

As I wait for that clarification, let us agree that you are going to utilize your one hour for one witness as you have indicated.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Yes, then we shall be advised on how to proceed with the other three witnesses. Of course, stepping on the traditions of the House, where the House has previously summoned witnesses and considered them to be the witnesses of the House. I am most humbled.

I will get clarification on that and get back to you.

Legal Counsel for the Governor, let us agree that we will stop with this witness now and proceed to the next witness within the one hour. We will decide if they are going to bring another witness within that one hour. Once they have completed the one hour, we will give you one hour to cross-examine whatever evidence they have produced.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: Mr. Speaker Sir, this is a moral of the Motion. The bulk of the evidence and the case that is being presented before Senate is on the shoulders of this specific witness. So, we have a lot of questions for her. It would be quite unfair for our client if we do not pose all the questions that we needed. I humbly beg just for 25 minutes from the earlier minutes that are requested to conclude.

Legal Counsel, you can see the mood in the House. Senators do not want to go through the experience they went through the other time because of poor management of time. I can give you 20 minutes, but it is with a caveat. I give you 20 minutes, which I will take out from your one hour of the next cross-examination of the other evidence that will be brought here. Is that in order?

Mr. Elias Mutuma: That is okay. I am getting a note from my Lead Counsel.

Very well. You have 20 minutes on your time.

I will get clarification on that and get back to you.

Legal Counsel for the Governor, let us agree that we will stop with this witness now and proceed to the next witness within the one hour. We will decide if they are going to bring another witness within that one hour. Once they have completed the one hour, we will give you one hour to cross-examine whatever evidence they have produced.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: Mr. Speaker Sir, this is a moral of the Motion. The bulk of the evidence and the case that is being presented before Senate is on the shoulders of this specific witness. So, we have a lot of questions for her. It would be quite unfair for our client if we do not pose all the questions that we needed. I humbly beg just for 25 minutes from the earlier minutes that are requested to conclude.

Legal Counsel, you can see the mood in the House. Senators do not want to go through the experience they went through the other time because of poor management of time. I can give you 20 minutes, but it is with a caveat. I give you 20 minutes, which I will take out from your one hour of the next cross-examination of the other evidence that will be brought here. Is that in order?

Mr. Elias Mutuma: That is okay. I am getting a note from my Lead Counsel.

Very well. You have 20 minutes on your time.

Yes, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Mr. Elias Mutuma: That matter is yet to be heard.

Yes, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Mr. Elias Mutuma: So, should the Senators then proceed and find that the Governor violated by removing or rather revoking the appointment, would that not in any way affect the judgment that is pending before court? It would.

It would not simply because our contention is not on the dispute between the employee and the employer that is in court. Our contention according to the Motion is about violations. It is usurpation of the powers of the County Assembly of Meru contrary to Section---

Mr. Elias Mutuma: Thank you. What is the dispute before court? How is it different from what the Senate is invited to listen to today? Is it not the same question of the Governor usurping the role and illegally revoking? Is that not the case that CPA Virginia Kawira has brought before the court?

CPA. Virginia Kawira is contesting a dismissal, and this Motion is contesting the usurpation of the powers of the County Assembly.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: The charges you brought before the Senate are illegally revoking. Is that not dismissing her from office and terminating her employment?

Yes, without a vote of not less than 75 per cent of all Members of the County Assembly.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: Is that not the same dispute before a competent court of law?

The contest in the court of law is a dispute between an employee and the employer. This dispute---

Mr. Elias Mutuma: Sorry, you have answered the question. Who are the parties in that case? The Governor is a party in that case, is she not?

The Governor and Madam Virginia Kawira. Mr. Elias Mutuma: The Governor is a party?

Yes, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

The Governor is still a party in this proceedings?

Yes, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

Yes, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

The Governor is still a party in this proceedings?

Yes, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

“Sending Dr. Ntoiti, CEO of the County Revenue Board, Paul Mwaki, CEO of the Liquor Board, Kenneth Kimathi Mbae, Managing Director of the Meru Microfinance Corporation and Joseph KithureMbae, CEO of MEWASS on indefinite compulsory leave with full salary and benefits in the usurpation of powers of the appointing authority.”

Mr. Elias Mutuma: What was the Senate’s findings in respect to that charge that was brought last year?

Legal Counsel, if I may interrupt. Please, stop the time.

Just to inform the legal team of the County Assembly that the witnesses that were summoned by the Senate are here and they are available. Do you wish to reconsider your utilization of your one hour?

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, with utmost respect to the House, it is our humble prayer that noting the content the witnesses will be submitting on, the House may find it in its favour to expand our time with maybe 30 minutes.

I also understand that the Senators have been sitting here and they have other commitments and sit in other committees. We understand and appreciate the work that they do, but, again, we also have a case to deal with. We shall try to work within the one hour and if the circumstances do not permit, we will still come and seek leave to have the same expanded.

Before we go into the discussion of your time allocated to you, in terms of calling your witnesses, are you still going to call three witnesses?

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: We may abandon two of the first witnesses. We will call two of the witnesses in the first list and then we shall go to the witnesses who have been summoned. We shall forfeit one witness in the earlier list.

So, you will still be calling only four witnesses. How will you do that in one hour?

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, at the closing, we will also take consideration and look at the evidence and their statements. We might take two, but let me just consider their statements.

Okay. While you think about it and taking into consideration that you used three hours on one witness, I will still stick on the

Before we go into the discussion of your time allocated to you, in terms of calling your witnesses, are you still going to call three witnesses?

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: We may abandon two of the first witnesses. We will call two of the witnesses in the first list and then we shall go to the witnesses who have been summoned. We shall forfeit one witness in the earlier list.

So, you will still be calling only four witnesses. How will you do that in one hour?

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, at the closing, we will also take consideration and look at the evidence and their statements. We might take two, but let me just consider their statements.

Okay. While you think about it and taking into consideration that you used three hours on one witness, I will still stick on the

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I am very disturbed. I appreciate you have guided the House on the application by the Counsel for the Assembly for more time. I would like to appeal to you because we want to deal with the issue of Meru conclusively.

If due to Standing Order No.1, you can kindly allow all the witnesses of the County Assembly to come, I want us to deal with this issue of Meru, once and for all. We shall not die if you give them one more extra hour. We will be here. We want to hear the truth. We cannot stand the lies that are coming in this House all the time.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I thank you.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

What is your point of order, Sen. Mandago?

It is under Standing Order No.105. Did I hear the Senator for Kakamega say that he is not standing the lies? What evidence does he have to adduce to this House that what we are listening to are lies? Can he provide and table in the House?

Sen. Gloria, what is your point of order and that is the last point of order?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we have been sitting here for long and I would like to appeal to you, as you consider Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale’s request, I do not think that all of us sitting here can wait until all the five or six witnesses are done for us to come back and seek clarification from the first witness.

This is because, as per what has been scheduled, the clarifications have been put at the end. This means that the hon. MCA who is seated has to wait until the very end because we have some clarifications, which we can only seek after all the witnesses have given evidence.

If you can allow that for every witness, even if you will give 15 or 10 minutes, we seek clarification and we are done with the witness, and the witness can leave. I thank you.

Senator for Embu, I clearly said that Sen. Gloria was the last point of order. Let me make a ruling on this issue.

Sen. (Dr.) Boni Khalwale, as much as I appreciate your concerns, and I will let it slide - your use of words; it could have just been a slip of the tongue. As much as we

Sen. Gloria, what is your point of order and that is the last point of order?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we have been sitting here for long and I would like to appeal to you, as you consider Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale’s request, I do not think that all of us sitting here can wait until all the five or six witnesses are done for us to come back and seek clarification from the first witness.

This is because, as per what has been scheduled, the clarifications have been put at the end. This means that the hon. MCA who is seated has to wait until the very end because we have some clarifications, which we can only seek after all the witnesses have given evidence.

If you can allow that for every witness, even if you will give 15 or 10 minutes, we seek clarification and we are done with the witness, and the witness can leave. I thank you.

Senator for Embu, I clearly said that Sen. Gloria was the last point of order. Let me make a ruling on this issue.

Sen. (Dr.) Boni Khalwale, as much as I appreciate your concerns, and I will let it slide - your use of words; it could have just been a slip of the tongue. As much as we

It is not. Mr. Elias Mutuma: So, there is no evidence of any communication, direct from the Assembly to the Governor?

Yes, it is there. Mr. Elias Mutuma: Where is evidence of the County Assembly writing to the Governor, specifically and not to any other person?

The County Assembly communicates with the Governor through the County Secretary. That one I can confirm.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: Is that letter addressed to the County Secretary?

The letter is addressed to--- I want to explain. This is a petition---

Mr. Elias Mutuma: We have no time for explanation.

For clarity purposes, this is a petition. Mr. Elias Mutuma: The answer I am looking for--- Madam witness, I have no time.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, please, protect me. Mr. Elias Mutuma: I have no time and I have a right to ask for a yes or no answer.

The TemporarySpeaker

: Witness?

Yes.

Please, answer questions as asked by the Legal Counsel.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: That letter is not addressed to the County Secretary, is it?

It is not. Mr. Elias Mutuma: It is not addressed to the Governor, is it?

It is not.

Witness?

Services, Senate.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: It is not copied to the Governor, is it?

It is not. Mr. Elias Mutuma: The Chief of Staff was the subject of the recommendation, is it not so?

Yes. Mr. Elias Mutuma: It is for that reason that it is copied. The County Secretary was the subject of the recommendation. It is for that reason that it is copied. Are so many other people who are involved in the process? Is that not the position?

No. Mr. Elias Mutuma: Was there any follow-up with the Governor as to why she did not action the recommendations? There was no other letter specific to the Governor.

Services, Senate.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: It is not copied to the Governor, is it?

It is not. Mr. Elias Mutuma: The Chief of Staff was the subject of the recommendation, is it not so?

Yes. Mr. Elias Mutuma: It is for that reason that it is copied. The County Secretary was the subject of the recommendation. It is for that reason that it is copied. Are so many other people who are involved in the process? Is that not the position?

No. Mr. Elias Mutuma: Was there any follow-up with the Governor as to why she did not action the recommendations? There was no other letter specific to the Governor.

There was no follow-up.

I cannot confirm. Mr. Elias Mutuma: Thank you. Let us go to the issue of illegally dismissing Dr. Ntoiti Mwaki and others. You read the previous Motion and compared it to the current one.

I did not read, but I have seen it. Mr. Elias Mutuma: When you came to the Senate last year and said you were part of that Motion, you did not accuse the Governor of dismissing. You accused the Governor of doing what?

Compulsory leave. Mr. Elias Mutuma: That is what you told the Senate?

Yes. Mr. Elias Mutuma: Did the Governor subsequently dismiss these individuals? First of all, confirm they are the same individuals we are talking about.

Yes. Mr. Elias Mutuma: Is there any other action taken by the Governor after we left the Senate concerning those individuals?

Services, Senate.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: Thank you. Let us go to the last issue of a bloated workforce. I want you to read the first five and the last five names in the list you have attached in your current Motion of Impeachment, where you are alleging that the Governor has employed a bloated workforce.

Go to Page 164 of volume two of your document. I want you to read the first five and the last five names. First of all, confirm, how many people are we talking about in that list? It is 111, am I right?

Yes. Mr. Elias Mutuma: Please, read the first five and the last five names.

Yes. Mr. Elias Mutuma: The first five names, kindly.

I read them? Mr. Elias Mutuma: Yes, read them.

Services, Senate.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: Thank you. Let us go to the last issue of a bloated workforce. I want you to read the first five and the last five names in the list you have attached in your current Motion of Impeachment, where you are alleging that the Governor has employed a bloated workforce.

Go to Page 164 of volume two of your document. I want you to read the first five and the last five names. First of all, confirm, how many people are we talking about in that list? It is 111, am I right?

Yes. Mr. Elias Mutuma: Please, read the first five and the last five names.

Yes. Mr. Elias Mutuma: The first five names, kindly.

I read them? Mr. Elias Mutuma: Yes, read them.

The first name is Gitonga Harrison Gatobu. Mr. Elias Mutuma: Second name?

Linda Gakii Kiome. Mr. Elias Mutuma: Third name?

Gideon Kimathi. Mr. Elias Mutuma: Fifth name?

Services, Senate.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: They are the same names, right? Should I make you read the entire list or you can confirm that they are the same names? You can confirm that it is the same list of 111 individuals that you brought to the Senate last year?

Yes. Mr. Elias Mutuma: Madam witness, when you tell the Senate to add you time to argue your case, do you not think you are taking Senators for a ride when you bring the same charge you brought last year and it was dismissed? Do you not think you have no respect for the Senators? It is a question I am posing to you. Kindly answer.

No. Mr. Elias Mutuma: You confirm it is the same charge with the same list?

The violation is the same. Mr. Elias Mutuma: The same list?

Services, Senate.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: They are the same names, right? Should I make you read the entire list or you can confirm that they are the same names? You can confirm that it is the same list of 111 individuals that you brought to the Senate last year?

Yes. Mr. Elias Mutuma: Madam witness, when you tell the Senate to add you time to argue your case, do you not think you are taking Senators for a ride when you bring the same charge you brought last year and it was dismissed? Do you not think you have no respect for the Senators? It is a question I am posing to you. Kindly answer.

No. Mr. Elias Mutuma: You confirm it is the same charge with the same list?

The violation is the same. Mr. Elias Mutuma: The same list?

Yes. Mr. Elias Mutuma: What was the Senator’s verdict last year in respect to that same charge? What was the Senate’s verdict concerning the list you brought before it last year, accusing the Governor of having a bloated workforce? We sat here for hours. What was the Senate’s verdict?

The Senate’s verdict was that it was not substantiated. Mr. Elias Mutuma: Okay. So, when you were seen in that video saying that you will bring six or seven impeachment Motions, does that not confirm malice on your part when you keep on bringing the same issues before the Senators for arbitration?

It does not. Mr. Elias Mutuma: How so?

It does not. Mr. Elias Mutuma: Finally, let me bring up the issue of the death of “Sniper”. You have accused the Governor of gross misconduct for stating that there was more than Kshs86 million that was collected through a specific Paybill.

Yes. Mr. Elias Mutuma: I want us to watch that clip where the Governor is allegedly stating that Kshs86 million was raised. It is in the County Assembly’s videos. Maybe I should ask you directly. What is the evidence that you brought before the Senate?

Services, Senate.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: We can also have the time frozen for just a moment to allow this.

Serjeant-at-Arms, please, get the translator.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: The interpreter is here. We can have the video clip played now.

Kindly play the video.

The video is not complete. Mr. Elias Mutuma: You had an opportunity to watch it, which we do not have. Has the Governor mentioned the paybill? Yes or no? We will still have a chance to play it. I just wanted to go on record.Did she mention the specific paybill and account?

Services, Senate.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: We can also have the time frozen for just a moment to allow this.

Serjeant-at-Arms, please, get the translator.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: The interpreter is here. We can have the video clip played now.

Kindly play the video.

The video is not complete. Mr. Elias Mutuma: You had an opportunity to watch it, which we do not have. Has the Governor mentioned the paybill? Yes or no? We will still have a chance to play it. I just wanted to go on record.Did she mention the specific paybill and account?

She did not mention the specific one in that video that has been played. However, in the whole video she will mention.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: That is your video correct? It is your evidence.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, it is my video, but I believe it is not complete.The video goes on---

Counsel, your time is up. Mr. Elias Mutuma: Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, allow me five minutes to conclude on this issue.

That is just an abstract of the video---

Services, Senate.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: Madam witness, apart from that paybill, were there funds raised through other modes? You have seen a Facebook post contained at Page 168 of our Volume 1B. Does it provide for a different paybill and account? Have you looked at it and confirmed that those accounts are different?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I have. I can confirm that the paybill---

Mr. Elias Mutuma: It is a simple question. Have you confirmed that there is a different account annexed at Page 168?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, it is not a different account. Mr. Elias Mutuma: It is your evidence; it is the same account.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, it is not the same. Mr. Elias Mutuma: It is not the same account?

Services, Senate.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: Madam witness, apart from that paybill, were there funds raised through other modes? You have seen a Facebook post contained at Page 168 of our Volume 1B. Does it provide for a different paybill and account? Have you looked at it and confirmed that those accounts are different?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I have. I can confirm that the paybill---

Mr. Elias Mutuma: It is a simple question. Have you confirmed that there is a different account annexed at Page 168?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, it is not a different account. Mr. Elias Mutuma: It is your evidence; it is the same account.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, it is not the same. Mr. Elias Mutuma: It is not the same account?

From the defense evidence on the Facebook post, it is the same account as the one I have produced. They are not two accounts.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: So, you confirm if Senators look at page 168, the accounts therein is the same as the one you have provided in evidence.

Yes, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I confirm that--- Mr. Elias Mutuma: We will leave that for us. There was also cash that was---

Counsel, I will have to stop you there. You had one last question.

Mr. Elias Mutuma: Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

You are welcome. I think we can be---

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, just a clarification.

The Counsel is already off. I do not think you can make a clarification.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the next part will be taken by Mr. Muriuki and Mr. Mwangi for re-examination. However, before they do so, kindly confirm---

Counsel, let me guide you.As you start, know that your one hour starts when you start speaking.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Most obliged. We will only take about seven minutes in this session.

Services, Senate.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Further, confirm that you have not drawn any financial benefits from this process.

I have not. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: And that the auditor’s report that was shown to you is indicated as part and parcel of the business and functions of the county.

Yes, I confirm. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: That impeachment is one of the functions of the County.

Indeed, it is. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Thank you. Counsel Muriuki.

Services, Senate.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Further, confirm that you have not drawn any financial benefits from this process.

I have not. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: And that the auditor’s report that was shown to you is indicated as part and parcel of the business and functions of the county.

Yes, I confirm. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: That impeachment is one of the functions of the County.

Indeed, it is. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Thank you. Counsel Muriuki.

Thank you. Yes, proceed Counsel. Mr. Elisha Ongoya: Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I had an objection. The challenge is that in normal processes, I would have my own microphone to raise my objection, but now I do not. Counsel has asked questions that do not pass for re- examination questions. Counsel has been suggesting answers for all the questions to the witness and seeking the witness confirms those answers.

That is the height of a failure of a trial process, at least, as we are trained and as we know it.That has already gone on record.I do not know what the Senate will do about it, but moving forward, I plead that you ask the Counsel to stick true to the rules of examination of their own witness, which cannot be in the form of suggesting answers to the witness and having the witness confirm those answers.

Thank you, Counsel. That is well noted. I will advise Counsel not to coach or guide the witnesses as we go forward. However, it is for the Senators to decide on their own on how they will take that questioning.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I rephrase those questions. When you speak about business in your video, what exactly did you mean?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I meant that in the County Assembly, we usually have our Order Paper which denotes the order of business. I meant that our oversight role is supreme and we shall continue with it.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Is the use of the term ‘business’ a parliamentary term?

In terms of orderliness, of order of business. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Did the County Assembly or any person who supported the Motion draw any financial benefit from the process?

I am not aware of any. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Have you drawn any benefit yourself?

Services, Senate.

Madam witness, did you prepare the minutes for the public participation?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the minutes for public participation were prepared by the County Assembly staff. Indeed, that was a function of the Assembly and was carried out by them as such, not I.

Mr. Eric Muriuki: Are you a handwriting expert?

I am not. Mr. Eric Muriuki: Now, why did you find it necessary to spend the night at the Assembly on the eve of moving the Motion?

Because of the security threats. Mr. Eric Muriuki: Why did you attribute the torching of the Assembly to the supporters of the Governor?

Services, Senate.

Madam witness, did you prepare the minutes for the public participation?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the minutes for public participation were prepared by the County Assembly staff. Indeed, that was a function of the Assembly and was carried out by them as such, not I.

Mr. Eric Muriuki: Are you a handwriting expert?

I am not. Mr. Eric Muriuki: Now, why did you find it necessary to spend the night at the Assembly on the eve of moving the Motion?

Because of the security threats. Mr. Eric Muriuki: Why did you attribute the torching of the Assembly to the supporters of the Governor?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I stated that there was a member of staff who threatened to ‘choma’. We felt very threatened.

Mr. Eric Muriuki: Thank you. You are asked whether you have taken steps personally to have this person arrested. Are you an investigator?

I am not. Mr. Eric Muriuki: Who is supposed to investigate and take the appropriate steps?

The relevant bodies that are charged with the mandate of investigating.

Mr. Eric Muriuki: Is this House investigating the issue of attempted arson on your home?

No. Mr. Eric Muriuki: What is it investigating?

It is investigating gross violations of the Constitution and other laws and other grounds that I have alleged that the Governor of Meru has violated.

Mr. Eric Muriuki: Why did it become necessary for you to play the video of the cows that died in that village?

I played that video because the Governor's defense gave a small abstract of that video, which was meant to mislead this House. So, I played that clip to give the exact oversight issues I was raising during that media interview.

Mr. Eric Muriuki: Thank you, very much. Now, how are the videos that were played here for you an answer to Count one on violation of the Constitution and other laws by the Governor?

Services, Senate.

Mr. Eric Muriuki: Are you aware of the provisions of the County Government’s Act, Section 33(8)?

Yes. Mr. Eric Muriuki: What does it say? Kindly, Counsel, assist in retrieving the Section.

Witness, let them help you to retrieve the Section, just listen to my question

Yes. Mr. Eric Muriuki: Does Article 229 (8) stop you or any other MCA from moving an impeachment Motion against the Governor?

It does not. Mr. Eric Muriuki: Does the Assembly sit as an appellate chamber for the findings of the Auditor General?

Services, Senate.

Mr. Eric Muriuki: Are you aware of the provisions of the County Government’s Act, Section 33(8)?

Yes. Mr. Eric Muriuki: What does it say? Kindly, Counsel, assist in retrieving the Section.

Witness, let them help you to retrieve the Section, just listen to my question

Yes. Mr. Eric Muriuki: Does Article 229 (8) stop you or any other MCA from moving an impeachment Motion against the Governor?

It does not. Mr. Eric Muriuki: Does the Assembly sit as an appellate chamber for the findings of the Auditor General?

No. Mr. Eric Muriuki: What is your specific complaint as regards the illegal revocation of CPA Virginia Kawira's appointment?

My specific complaint is that the revocation of Virginia Kawira was done without a vote of not less than 75 per cent of all the MCAs and in usurpation of the powers of the County Assembly.

Mr. Eric Muriuki: Specifically, what provision of the law are you complaining of being breached?

Sections 58 (4) and 5 and Section 59 (a) of the County Government’s Act.

Mr. Eric Muriuki: Thank you. I want you to read Section 33 (8) of the County Government’s Act.

Services, Senate.

Thank you, witness, you may take leave.

Serjeant-at-Arms, please, show in the next witness.

was ushered into the Chamber) Counsel and Clerk, just give us a few minutes as we do some housekeeping.

Please call the Order to be moved now? Counsel and witness, please, take a seat as we conclude on this. Senate Majority Leader, proceed.

More than three months.

I have not. Mr. Eric Muriuki: Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I will yield to my colleague, Mr. Mwangi.

Mr. Mwangi Ndegwa: I am informed that we have sufficiently covered our re- exam, so we shall move on to our next witness.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir and Counsel. With your kind permission, we will call Hyrene Kawira as our next witness.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

Thank you, witness, you may take leave.

Serjeant-at-Arms, please, show in the next witness.

was ushered into the Chamber) Counsel and Clerk, just give us a few minutes as we do some housekeeping.

Please call the Order to be moved now? Counsel and witness, please, take a seat as we conclude on this. Senate Majority Leader, proceed.

Very well Counsel, we may proceed. That was a procedural matter that we had to dispense with. For your guidance, you had already utilized 10 minutes, you have 50 minutes to conclude with your evidence.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Most humbled, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I hope time does not run when she is taking oath.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

Ms. Hyrene Kawira: Yeah.

Very well Counsel, we may proceed. That was a procedural matter that we had to dispense with. For your guidance, you had already utilized 10 minutes, you have 50 minutes to conclude with your evidence.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Most humbled, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I hope time does not run when she is taking oath.

I was.

What nature of involvement?

Ms. Hyrene Kawira: Yes.

Ms. Hyrene Kawira: Yeah.

Also, be audible. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: We are most humbled, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. So, were you involved or was there a committee that was put in place to oversee the processes of preparing for the funeral?

Ms. Hyrene Kawira: Huh?

Ms. Hyrene Kawira: Kiswahili.

Yes, there is a clip.

Ungependa ichezwe mbele ya Seneti?

Ms. Hyrene Kawira: Yes.

Also, be audible. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: We are most humbled, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. So, were you involved or was there a committee that was put in place to oversee the processes of preparing for the funeral?

Ms. Hyrene Kawira: Huh?

Ms. Hyrene Kawira: Kiswahili.

Yes, there is a clip.

Ungependa ichezwe mbele ya Seneti?

Yes, please.

Clip 1B of the County Assembly list of evidence. Kabla hiyo haijachezwa, ni nini kilitendeka hapo baada ya mheshimiwa Gavana kutamka hayo maneno?

Tafadhali rudia kwa utaratibu hayo matamshi.

Services, Senate.

We have the statement---

Acha uonyeshwe. Hon. Senators, we are referring to volume two of the evidence. The statement begins at Page 277 to 330.

We only had the Paybill.

Services, Senate.

We have the statement---

Acha uonyeshwe. Hon. Senators, we are referring to volume two of the evidence. The statement begins at Page 277 to 330.

We only had the Paybill.

Ni nani aliyekuwa amesajiliwa katika hiyo Paybill?

Ni mimi.

Ni nani alikuwa anajuwa kiwango cha zile hela imeingia na zile zimetoka?

Ni mimi.

Ms. Hyrene Kawira: Yes.

Ms. Hyrene Kawira: Kshs207,491.

This is the amount I confirm.

Nauliza udhibitishe kwamba hiyo ndio ile statement ya benki.

Hii ndio statement ya benki.

Ms. Hyrene Kawira: Hayalingani.

Ms. Hyrene Kawira: Yes.

Ms. Hyrene Kawira: Kshs207,491.

Ingine ilikuwa cash.

Ulipokea ngapi kwa njia ya malipo ya pesa taslimu?

Tulipokuwa Kinoru, I received Kshs8,000.

Ms. Hyrene Kawira: Hayalingani.

Ms. Hyrene Kawira: Ndio.

Hiyo nambari ya simu imesajiliwa katika jina la nani?

Judith Kiragu.

Huyo alikuwa nani?

She is one of the blogger; the one who initiated the channeling---

Okay, the Paybill was initiated by Snipers friends and fellow bloggers.

Hii nambari ya simu ni ya nani?

Judith Kiragu.

Huyo alikuwa nani?

She is one of the blogger; the one who initiated the channeling---

Okay, the Paybill was initiated by Snipers friends and fellow bloggers.

Hii nambari ya simu ni ya nani?

Alitransfer hela ngapi?

Alitransfer Kshs115,000.

Kuna watu ambao wanafanyakazi na Mheshimiwa Gavana ambao wameshitakiwa kwa kuhusishwa na kifo cha mpenziyo, mumeo Sniper?

Mrs. Hyrene Kawira: Yes.

Who has an objection?

Sorry, you have a---?

Let us hear your objection. What is your objection?

Mr. Katwa Kigen: What we are going through is an evidence-in-chief. This witness has sworn a witness affidavit, which is primarily her witness statement before you, and there are specific claims in that witness affidavit, which Counsel in exam-in- chief is supposed to bring on board to this Senate.

The question that has just been put to this witness is not part of that witness affidavit. Secondly, the question of the murder trial as has been confirmed through the other witness is a matter actively pending before another court of law.

We express our deepest sympathies to this witness for the loss of her husband. We would be the last people to want to see her go through the agony that the advocate for the Assembly wants to take her through at the moment.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we will do that justice, by limiting this witness, first, to the issues raised in the impeachment Motion. The question of who murdered or who did not murder Sniper is not part of the impeachment Motion anywhere and is not part of this witness affidavit anywhere.With tremendous respect, it is raised for the limited purpose of emotionalizing the Motion we have before this House.

We beg that you overrule Counsel and restrict him to the evidence that was filed in this Senate and supplied to the Governor's Team.

I beg, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you. Counsel, hold on a moment.

Mrs. Hyrene Kawira: Yes.

Services, Senate.

(The Clerk at-The Table consulted with the Temporary Speaker (Sen. Abdul Haji)) Counsel for the Assembly, could you respond to what the Legal Counsel has raised on the matter he has raised?

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: I am most obliged, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I have always held my Senior Learned Counsel with high esteem until this afternoon when he makes an objection on a point that is not legally founded.

Their evidence, that has been supplied to us from the Governor in terms of the phone number that I have questioned the witness on, and therefore, to assume that we can only limit ourselves to the affidavit and not test the evidence of the Governor, would be far from the truth.

We have a charge sheet appearing on page 429 of our bundle of document at volume two. The County Assembly has no intentions whatsoever to prosecute the case that is pending before the court of law, but there is no caveat that an issue that arises in this trial cannot be mentioned for purposes of record.

We have not accused the Governor of murdering Sniper.I do not know whether I have touched a raw nerve, but the objection is not founded. We will only ask the witness in terms of the particulars of the person charged. We will not go to the evidence of who killed who or anything of that sort. We have tendered that evidence, but they did not respond to it in their defense. We understand that it is a very emotive issue as demonstrated by the witness.

Very well, Counsel. Let us restrict our questioning to matters concerning the impeachment of the Governor. I tend to agree that if this matter of the murder case is in court, then it shall be sub-judice for us to discuss it here. Let us steer clear of that.

Counsel, I would urge you to stick to the affidavit provided by the witness, and the line of questioning should be specifically on the impeachment Motion. Let us not divert on that, please.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: I am well guided, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. So, with respect to the murder of your dear husband, did the Governor ever send condolences to the family?

Ms. Hyrene Kawira: No.

Ms. Hyrene Kawira: Yes.

Okay. Stop the video, please. Serjeant-at-Arms, please, bring the interpreter here. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: May our time be frozen?

Services, Senate.

Stop the time. Let us play the video.

The Interpreter

: Bw. Spika wa Muda, jina langu ni Gitonga Kaburi, kutoka shirika la utangazaji la Kenya Broadcasting Corporation

(KBC)

, Mwagu FM. Nanukuu yale Gavana anasema.

Naomba tuanze.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Let us play video 1A.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Please, also play video 1C

We can give the witness time to compose herself.

Ms. Hyrene Kawira: No.

Ms. Hyrene Kawira: Yes.

Okay. Stop the video, please. Serjeant-at-Arms, please, bring the interpreter here. Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: May our time be frozen?

Services, Senate.

Stop the time. Let us play the video.

The Interpreter

: Bw. Spika wa Muda, jina langu ni Gitonga Kaburi, kutoka shirika la utangazaji la Kenya Broadcasting Corporation

(KBC)

, Mwagu FM. Nanukuu yale Gavana anasema.

Naomba tuanze.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Let us play video 1A.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Please, also play video 1C

We can give the witness time to compose herself.

Hapana, ni uongo.

Je, hayo matamshi ya Mheshimiwa Gavana yamekudhuru ki vipi?

Ms. Hyrene Kawira: Hapana.

Kwa sasa hivi ninaishi na one of my relatives

Ninapomalizia, je, uliona viongozi wakizunguka na mwili wa sniper?

Ms. Hyrene Kawira: Ndiyo.

Uliwaona wakizunguka na mwili wa Sniper?

Actually hawakuwa viongozi, walikuwa ni bloggers and Sniper’s friends.

Ms. Hyrene Kawira: Hapana.

Kwa sasa hivi ninaishi na one of my relatives

Ninapomalizia, je, uliona viongozi wakizunguka na mwili wa sniper?

Ms. Hyrene Kawira: Ndiyo.

Uliwaona wakizunguka na mwili wa Sniper?

Actually hawakuwa viongozi, walikuwa ni bloggers and Sniper’s friends.

Ms. Hyrene Kawira: Hapana.

Counsel, as we proceed, could you, please, also advise the witnesses to stay back and not to go anywhere, until the Senators ask them questions during the questions of clarification time.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Utakapomaliza kuzungumza usiondoke kwa maana Maseneta watakuuliza maswali ya kudhibithisha mambo mawili ama matatu. Asante.

What are your qualifications?

I am an advocate of the High Court of Kenya.

When were you admitted to the bar? Kindly, you can give us your P/105.

Thank you. Kindly tell the Senate your names.

Services, Senate.

Mr. Anthony Mwenda: What are the notable possessions that you have ever held in your career?

Ms. Linda Gakii Kiome: I have been a member in long standing of the Law Society of Kenya (LSK). I am a member of Federation of Women Lawyers (FIDA). I have been the Chairperson of Mount Kenya Branch of the Law Society of Kenya and other positions therein for about 10 years. Thereafter, I was the interim president of the Law Society of Kenya for three months. After which I became a member of the Council of the Law Society of Kenya representing advocates practising in up country. This is the second term now.

Mr. Anthony Mwenda: When were you appointed by the Governor as a legal advisor?

On 28th March, 2023.

When was your contract terminated?

An alleged termination that was signed by the Chief of Staff, Meru County, Nchamba Mbithii, dated on 26th March this year, 2024.

Services, Senate.

Mr. Anthony Mwenda: What are the notable possessions that you have ever held in your career?

Ms. Linda Gakii Kiome: I have been a member in long standing of the Law Society of Kenya (LSK). I am a member of Federation of Women Lawyers (FIDA). I have been the Chairperson of Mount Kenya Branch of the Law Society of Kenya and other positions therein for about 10 years. Thereafter, I was the interim president of the Law Society of Kenya for three months. After which I became a member of the Council of the Law Society of Kenya representing advocates practising in up country. This is the second term now.

Mr. Anthony Mwenda: When were you appointed by the Governor as a legal advisor?

On 28th March, 2023.

When was your contract terminated?

An alleged termination that was signed by the Chief of Staff, Meru County, Nchamba Mbithii, dated on 26th March this year, 2024.

I am aware of the affidavit.

Where have you filed that affidavit?

I filed the affidavit before this Senate.

Before this Senate?

Yes.

What are the circumstances leading to you filing that affidavit in the Senate?

Yes.

Services, Senate.

Ms. Linda Gakii Kiome: According to that letter, at the very end, it has been signed off, but the name is not indicated.

When was that letter, that memo written?

On 23rd February, 2024.

Were you still the legal advisor to the Governor?

Services, Senate.

Ms. Linda Gakii Kiome: According to that letter, at the very end, it has been signed off, but the name is not indicated.

When was that letter, that memo written?

On 23rd February, 2024.

Were you still the legal advisor to the Governor?

Technically, yes.

Why are you saying technically yes?

In the month of December, 2023, the Governor summoned me in her office in Meru and asked me to tender my resignation. Out of which, the subsequent letter for notice of termination was issued to me by Nchamba Mbithii. That was dated 26th March, 2024.

Indeed, counsel.

Until which date did you vacate the office? When was your contract terminated?

Indeed so.

I want you to look at the signature at the tail end of that letter. It is on page 12 of volume 1B of the Governor's documents. Whose signature is that?

The signature mimics my signature.

Why do you say it mimics your signature?

I say it mimics my signature because I did not append this signature.

Counsel, could you also tell us the affidavit by the witnesses is on which document?

Mr. Antony Mwenda: The affidavit was filed by the witness. That forms the basis of why we called her to to be a witness today. It was filed to the Clerk of the Senate yesterday. It should be an independent document.

Services, Senate.

Ms. Linda Gakii Kiome: It is not my signature. I did not prepare and sign this document.

Mr. Antony Mwenda: The Governor's team brought this document to this honourable House to rely on it as her evidence and for defence. What would you want this House to treat this document?

Ms. Linda Gakii Kiome: First---

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

What is your point of order, Sen.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, just like you have struggled to get visibility on that affidavit, I am looking at the soft copies here, and I cannot find it. It is such a material submission that it would make sense for us to proceed until and unless we can confirm that we have it.

All right.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, with your kind permission, we would be able to have the assistance of supplying the hard copies to the honourable Senators as printed.

Can you say that again, counsel? Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, if it so pleases you, we have the copies printed that the Senators can have access to.

Okay, give it to the Serjeant-at- Arms times and it will be distributed to the Senators.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: We are most obliged.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

All right.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, with your kind permission, we would be able to have the assistance of supplying the hard copies to the honourable Senators as printed.

Can you say that again, counsel? Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, if it so pleases you, we have the copies printed that the Senators can have access to.

Okay, give it to the Serjeant-at- Arms times and it will be distributed to the Senators.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: We are most obliged.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

Services, Senate. not the author of the document and therefore, we question the authenticity of that document.

That is why she moved to swear an affidavit, yesterday on 18th and it formed the basis of our prayers this morning that this witness be called, as a witness of the Senate, to come and substantiate on the document. This is because, if this is not substantiated and it is a forgery, I am saying if it is a forgery, then this House can form the basis of the final determination of this case based on that document. That is why she was called upon to come and give this evidence.

What is your point of order, Sen. Eddy? If I could give guidance that this witness was one of the witnesses who were summoned through the Senate on the request of the Counsel. The summons went out this morning.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the materiality of the fidelity is about the issue of timing and filing. However, for my own purpose and use, I wanted to know whether the counsel for the defence objected to what the counsel has just talked about.

So far, he has not objected. Mr. Anthony Mwenda: It was not objected to in the morning.

I will further request you to read paragraph eight.

In paragraph eight, I deponed that all the matters therein are alien to me and simply put, the Governor has never sought any such legal advice from me and as such, the internal memo is a forged document. I will not hesitate to report the same for investigations by the DCI.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the materiality of the fidelity is about the issue of timing and filing. However, for my own purpose and use, I wanted to know whether the counsel for the defence objected to what the counsel has just talked about.

So far, he has not objected. Mr. Anthony Mwenda: It was not objected to in the morning.

In paragraph 12, I have deponed that the contents of this internal memo are not only mediocre, but also embarrassing. To say the least, the internal memo could not have been prepared by an advocate of the High Court of Kenya.

Absolutely.

Services, Senate.

Indeed, so, mwalimu.

Thank you so much. You are aware that the issue you have now brought before this Senate is a controversy as to whether you issued the advice in question or you did not issue the advice in question. Is that a correct summary of the issue?

Absolutely.

Thank you.That is all for us.

I am happy. I just wanted to confirm that fact. Now, you did not take this lying low. You filed Meru Employment and Labor Relations Case No.E022 of 2024 against the Governor's Government of the County of Meru. True?

That is true.

Services, Senate.

Mr. Elisha Ongoya: Let us see whether we can find an answer to that question. Linda, your services as the legal advisor to the Governor were terminated by the County Government of Meru. Were they not?

They were terminated.

I am happy. I just wanted to confirm that fact. Now, you did not take this lying low. You filed Meru Employment and Labor Relations Case No.E022 of 2024 against the Governor's Government of the County of Meru. True?

That is true.

So, you have an active dispute with the Governor of Meru County?

Indeed so.

Thank you so much. Before this, Linda, you were the running mate to the Hon.Mithika Linturi in a ticket adverse to the Governor's ticket in the last general election.Is that true or not true?

That is true.

Thank you so much. Are you a resident of Meru County?

I am a resident of Meru County.

It is fair to say that the Governor, Hon.Kawira Mwangaza, does not enjoy a very good relationship with Hon. Mithika Linturi. Is that a fair assessment?

That is not a fair assessment.

Okay, let me put it contrary. The Governor enjoys a fantastic working relationship with Hon. Mithika Linturi. Is that now a fair assessment?

Mwalimu, if only you had let me finish.

No. You have answered my question. I have limited time. The Speaker knows just how much time I have. Therefore, I am asking very limited questions. You said it is not fair that the Governor does not enjoy a good relationship. I am therefore suggesting to you, confirm that the Governor Kawira Mwangaza enjoys a fantastic working relationship with the person to whom you were the running mate, Hon. Mithika Linturi. Is that a fair assessment?

Services, Senate.

Hon. Members, that is the true fact.

Thank you. Hon. DMK Kiogora is the same person who moved the first impeachment Motion against this Governor before this Senate. True or not true?

That is true.

Services, Senate.

Hon. Members, that is the true fact.

Thank you. Hon. DMK Kiogora is the same person who moved the first impeachment Motion against this Governor before this Senate. True or not true?

That is true.

Hon. DMK Kiogora is one of the people who signed on the Motion in support of the removal of this Governor which Motion brings us here today? True or not true?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, that is true.

Therefore, it is fair for us to conclude that you were actually procured by those who are against the Governor to come and state what you have stated before this Senate. Is that not a fair assessment?

It is a very unfair comment.

Thank you. I will leave it with that. Allow me to move to something else very little.You want us to believe that you came to this Senate as an independent witness, not one of those witnesses summoned by the County Assembly. I mean you are voluntarily giving evidence for the County Assembly.

I came here to clear my name.

Somehow, as early as yesterday, in advance of the County Assembly's application today to this Senate, you had a ready affidavit to support their evidence?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir---

You also sent hon. DMK Kiogora. Did you not?

Services, Senate.

Ms. Linda Gakii Kiome: No, she is not my witness. I have sued the County Public Service Board (CPSB) together with the Governor.

Is Virginia Kawira one of your witnesses in that case?

She is not one of my witnesses.

Let me move in finalization of this matter. The opinion in question has a signature. Does that signature resemble your signature?

Services, Senate.

Ms. Linda Gakii Kiome: No, she is not my witness. I have sued the County Public Service Board (CPSB) together with the Governor.

Is Virginia Kawira one of your witnesses in that case?

She is not one of my witnesses.

Let me move in finalization of this matter. The opinion in question has a signature. Does that signature resemble your signature?

It resembles. I said it mimics my signature.

I am using a different term. Does it look like your signature?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, it resembles my signature.

It was issued during your term in office?

I may not know, but the dates are within the timelines- --

The date is within the time when you were in office?

Indeed so.

During that time, you used to render legal advice to the Governor?

At that time---

During that period in office?

The Governor had already asked me to write a resignation letter.

He is.

That case was filed on 21stMay, 2024.

It was.

You filed a list of witnesses in that case.

Yes, I did.

You are witness number one in that case.

In fact---

You are witness number one on that list of witnesses in that case?

Yes.

Would it surprise you that in the soft copy in front of me, is that list of witnesses with Virginia Kawira Miriti as your witness number two?

Services, Senate.

At the time before the same---

Is it true that that list filed in that court lists Virginia Kawira Miriti as your witness number two?

It does.

Services, Senate.

At the time before the same---

Is it true that that list filed in that court lists Virginia Kawira Miriti as your witness number two?

It does.

Thank you so much.

But circumstances changed.

I have no problem with that. At least this Virginia Kawira Miriti is the same person the County Assembly has also applied to come here today and give evidence that they were not able to procure her earlier as a witness.

Come again?

Today, the County Assembly applied for some witness summons. Are you aware that together with you, they also sought that Virginia be summoned?

I am not aware.

I am now putting it to you as a fact that she was also summoned. Now, I suggest to you that these coincidences are too fantastic to be merely coincidental?

I may not reflect my---

A researcher going to that court file will find only one list of witnesses listing you and Virginia.

Services, Senate.

Ms. Linda Gakii Kiome: I have no quarrel with the Governor. In fact, when I received my appointment letter, it is the former Cabinet Secretary for Agriculture and Livestock Development, Hon. Mithika Linturi, who told me to go and help his sister in Meru County. She also affirmed that when she was giving me my appointment letter.

I have no fight with the Governor.

Thank you. The same Virginia who you also know has sued the County Governor for the termination of the revocation of her appointment as the Secretary to the County Public Service Board.

Madam Linda?

Yes.

Services, Senate.

Ms. Linda Gakii Kiome: I have no quarrel with the Governor. In fact, when I received my appointment letter, it is the former Cabinet Secretary for Agriculture and Livestock Development, Hon. Mithika Linturi, who told me to go and help his sister in Meru County. She also affirmed that when she was giving me my appointment letter.

I have no fight with the Governor.

Thank you. There is something in the Bible called the keys of betrayal. Thank you so much, I will rest at that.

Madam Linda?

Yes.

Did the Governor give you---

Was the first impeachment that was moved by the said hon. Member, before the forged signature?

It was before the forged signature.

Services, Senate.

The only reason I am here is to clear my name. I am so disappointed that such a document would be forged with my name by Her Excellency. I have no ill feelings whatsoever against the Governor.

A link has been laid relating the honourable Member who called you to the first impeachment Motion. There is a link that has been created that you are here to perpetuate the deeds of the

Was the first impeachment that was moved by the said hon. Member, before the forged signature?

It was before the forged signature.

You cannot be a conduit of the said Member, can you?

Honestly, I am not.

That is all, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

Legal Counsel for the Assembly, be aware that you only have 10 minutes to conclude with providing your evidence and witnesses.

Mr. Ndegwa Njiru: We are most humbled. Within the 10 minutes, allow us to call our next and last witness, Jacob Kirari. Mr. Mawira will take the witness.

Serjeant-at-Arms, please, bring the witness in.

(The Witness for the Meru County Assembly

Sen. Faki, what is your point of order?

Services, Senate.

I have a few questions for you, Mr. Witness. Kindly introduce yourself. What is your name?

Mr. Jacob Kirari: My name is Jacob Kirari. I am the Clerk to the County Assembly of Meru.

Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, when we made the request for summons in the morning, we requested that the Clerk should avail the original register of documents that are received by the County Assembly as and when they are served. He has the original register here.

I am truly sorry for this. He has just arrived with this original register. You might not have the benefit of the copies because he has just arrived a few minutes ago. So, probably after this, copies of this original register can be made for the benefit of the Speaker and the Hon. Members.

Mr. Elisha Ongoya: Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I would desire to respond to that request before a ruling is made.

All right. Counsel, for the Governor, you had an intervention. Please, proceed.

Mr. Elisha Ongoya: Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the procedure of this House is that the notice by the Clerk gave all of us up to Saturday, 17th August, this year, to furnish our documents to the Clerk.

My colleagues will confirm we actually, both of us, met at the Clerk's office at the same time. In fact, the Clerk did not have to incur any expense serving these documents. The parties just exchanged the documents there.

We have just dealt with a witness here whose affidavit was brought to us for the first time when we were sitting here. We have had to collect all this information you have seen me using to cross-examine, including getting information from court in Meru to confirm who these witnesses are, because she had lied to you that so-and-so is not my witness, Virginia is not my witness. I had to get that evidence from Meru.

It is an unfair approach to a trial for parties to keep subjecting us to new documents that we have not had a chance to discuss with our client and other persons who may have knowledge, so that we can fairly engage in cross-examination.

Mr Temporary Speaker, Sir, I humbly beseech that parties having filed their documents, this witness’ evidence be limited to commenting on the documents already filed and not introducing new documents. It is becoming an extremely punitive trial process to us, as counsel and to our client, if we will continue facing a trial by ambush. Fortunately for me, this Senate has a number of lawyers who know just how egregious trial by ambush is to our justice system. We are here in a justice process.

We beseech you, Mr Temporary Speaker, Sir, to make a definitive ruling that the evidence of this witness is limited to commenting on the documents already filed by the parties, where both parties have had a fair chance to look at and not ambushing us with new documents which we do not know how we shall interrogate them before we cross- examine them.

I humbly beseech you.

Counsel Ongoya, you will note that in the morning, there was an application under Regulation 10 by the Counsel for the

Counsel, you can have your witness sworn in. Serjeant-at-Arms, kindly facilitate the swearing-in of the witness.

took the Oath) Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, my name is Boniface Mawira. I will take this witness through cross-examination.

Counsel, as you run the witness to the document, we will need definitely for you to table the original document, as well as making available copies for counsel for the governor as well as the House to interrogate whether or not we will admit it, but we must get a copy of that register.

Sen. Faki, what is your point of order?

I am trying to understand this procedure. What I understand is that, whatever evidence that was before the County Assembly is what was brought here. Now, if they are bringing in new evidence, I do not think it is admissible.

Sen. Faki, if you followed the proceedings in the morning, pursuant to the application made and the ruling of the Speaker, the reason as to why we have this witness is on the basis of that ruling. That has not been vacated. We are proceeding to deal with it.

Proceed, Sen. M. Kajwang.

Services, Senate. County Assembly with regard to these two particular witnesses. That is the basis upon which they were allowed to come in and was summoned.

The first witness has already been dealt with and you dealt with it very well whichever way you did, whether it was out of your ability to do it, you did it within that short time.

I believe equally, that this particular witness, because of the summons that the House issued earlier because we have not yet seen the documentation they are going to rely on, it will be on the basis of your documents and whatever registers that we will shortly direct, that it will be available to the Members of the House for them to print out of it as the witness proceeds to testify. I believe that in the shortest time that we have, we will have the witness take the stand and will be guiding the witness along the way.

Counsel for the County Assembly, please, proceed to take the witness and make available the document that you want to have your witness testify on.

Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the witness has come with the original register. For context, the reason as to why this witness has been summoned is because we discovered forgeries in the Governor's documents after we exchanged documents on Saturday at around 6.00 p.m.

The only reason this witness has come - It is a fairly short witness and in our summary request that we have built the original register there is only one original register. This is the original register he has brought for the letters and other correspondences that are served in the County Assembly.

So, I implore and I would seek your guidance, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, as to whether you can assist us to make copies so that they are available to Members or the original register can be circulated to Members. I am lost on the transcript there.

Services, Senate.

The Speaker sitting where you are sitting made a ruling that we could proceed with the next witness, and if we do not have the next witness, then the House could consider listening to the testimony of the witness tomorrow in the morning, when all Members are able to be seized of the records or the substance that he wants to use to convince the Senate. Therefore, let us not do an academic exercise.

Sen. M. Kajwang’, the ruling that I have made is to the effect that we get documents in the form of register for purposes of the Members to interrogate as well as the counsel for the Governor. This is the last witness by the County Assembly and they have limited time.

You know, we are prosecuting this Motion within limited time, and therefore, we will, in the next five minutes, be able to conclude on this particular document available to Members, and then we close on this particular case.

For now, the position is, we will avail the document they rely on, as well as, if any, important comments that they want to make or interrogate on the evidence that already had been supplied by both parties. I do not want to deviate from that early ruling. We will give them a few minutes to avail that document.

Sen. Faki, I will not allow you to intervene any further. What I will do is to give direction, which is that we will stand down this particular witness.

We have got questions and clarifications by Members from among the witnesses who already testified. We will go back to them to get clarifications. Once we are done, we will come back to this particular witness. By that time, we will have had time to look at the document, including giving an opportunity to the counsel for the Governor to look at that particular register before they take the witness to the stand.

Can we have the witnesses who testified, probably starting with the first one, put to the stand? Let Members ask questions and clarifications and make inquiries they would like to have from that particular witness, so that we immediately embark on that session. Once we are done, we will go back to the gentleman who was on the stand. That is the direction of the Chair. The witness can step back as we prepare to avail that document to the House.

Mr. Boniface Mwereru Mawira: We are most obliged, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

Hon. Members, the witness is already here. For purposes of time management, we will ask questions and seek clarification from the witness. Each Member to inquire and get clarification under two minutes because we have one hour starting from now. This session should end one hour after 9.15 p.m, which is at 10.15 p.m. From my dashboard, I can see the requests from Members is almost everyone in the House. So, when you have the opportunity to ask, kindly do so under two minutes and make sure you go straight to the inquiry you want to

Services, Senate. make. Do not unnecessarily waste time in laying a lot of foundation. Whoever is not in, we will forfeit the opportunity. Then next on the line is Sen. Orwoba, who is not in.

Senator Joe Njutu, proceed.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for this opportunity. I want to seek clarification from the witness. I hope she is listening. There was a video that was played that showed one person that was said to be an activist in Meru, talking about something very malicious against the Senate. I would like the witness to tell us the circumstances surrounding those comments.

Two, there was a fire in the witness's compound. However, looking at the image on the video clip, the fire was just next to the wall. There were some goods that would have been destroyed by this fire, which did not catch fire. Would the witness clarify exactly how the fire that was supposed to be damaging her property fell just next to the wall?

In conclusion, there is a claim that there was a disease that was killing cattle in Meru. Would the witness tell us whether she made a Statement, a Question or a Petition to the County Assembly, being a Member of the County Assembly, instead of prosecuting this matter in public? Those are the clarifications I will be seeking from the witness.

I thank you.

Madam Zipporah, you may respond to those three questions.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I started by saying I regret the comments made by the activists against this honourable House. They do not form the opinion of the County Assembly of Meru on the opinion of this House. I also trust they do not form the opinion of the Meru people. According to the video, because I was not present in that meeting, it shows that there were some prayers for the late blogger that we have talked about. It is in those circumstances that the person commented that. Personally, I may not understand why the activist went into castigating this honourable House in his own comments. I believe it is unfortunate, unwarranted and uncalled for. I regret that. I personally disassociate myself from the comments. I do not share the same opinion.

Services, Senate. make. Do not unnecessarily waste time in laying a lot of foundation. Whoever is not in, we will forfeit the opportunity. Then next on the line is Sen. Orwoba, who is not in.

Senator Joe Njutu, proceed.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for this opportunity. I want to seek clarification from the witness. I hope she is listening. There was a video that was played that showed one person that was said to be an activist in Meru, talking about something very malicious against the Senate. I would like the witness to tell us the circumstances surrounding those comments.

Two, there was a fire in the witness's compound. However, looking at the image on the video clip, the fire was just next to the wall. There were some goods that would have been destroyed by this fire, which did not catch fire. Would the witness clarify exactly how the fire that was supposed to be damaging her property fell just next to the wall?

In conclusion, there is a claim that there was a disease that was killing cattle in Meru. Would the witness tell us whether she made a Statement, a Question or a Petition to the County Assembly, being a Member of the County Assembly, instead of prosecuting this matter in public? Those are the clarifications I will be seeking from the witness.

I thank you.

Services, Senate. exhibits, including what was thrown into my compound. It smelt of petrol and even now, those exhibits are still at Nkubu Police Station.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, on question three, I submit that the disease that the farmers from Uruko were talking about was the lumpy skin disease. I am also a farmer and I do farming. I also had the same challenge and I submit that I did not seek a statement from the County Assembly of Meru. I did not file a petition, but I have sought over 15 statements of other issues in the County Assembly of Meru.

I thank you.

Thank you. I will allow Sen. Maanzo and Sen. Wakoli to ask questions so that you answer the two Senators at once.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. About the fire in the County Assembly, she already provided a video of her home. Is there any evidence that the County Assembly ever caught fire? If it did, how come she still went to spend the night there and use the Chamber the following day?

Secondly, on the diseases of the cows, I believe these cows are owned by individuals and are associated with a co-operative society. When a disease breaks out, do the owners of the animals seek their private vet or they take the long process, where they go to the county government, which has to go through a procurement process? What would be the most logical thing to do for an owner of a cow, which gets sick because we saw videos of people complaining? Do they immediately deal with it or they look for the county government which is a longer route?

The witness showed a video of Buuri and someone saying that Buuri will burn down. Can she confirm to the Senate whether the whole of Buuri Sub-County was burnt down?

Sen. Wakoli. Hon. Zipporah, you will wait for the second set of questions from Sen. Wakoli and answer both of them at once.

Services, Senate. exhibits, including what was thrown into my compound. It smelt of petrol and even now, those exhibits are still at Nkubu Police Station.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, on question three, I submit that the disease that the farmers from Uruko were talking about was the lumpy skin disease. I am also a farmer and I do farming. I also had the same challenge and I submit that I did not seek a statement from the County Assembly of Meru. I did not file a petition, but I have sought over 15 statements of other issues in the County Assembly of Meru.

I thank you.

Thank you. I will allow Sen. Maanzo and Sen. Wakoli to ask questions so that you answer the two Senators at once.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. About the fire in the County Assembly, she already provided a video of her home. Is there any evidence that the County Assembly ever caught fire? If it did, how come she still went to spend the night there and use the Chamber the following day?

Secondly, on the diseases of the cows, I believe these cows are owned by individuals and are associated with a co-operative society. When a disease breaks out, do the owners of the animals seek their private vet or they take the long process, where they go to the county government, which has to go through a procurement process? What would be the most logical thing to do for an owner of a cow, which gets sick because we saw videos of people complaining? Do they immediately deal with it or they look for the county government which is a longer route?

The witness showed a video of Buuri and someone saying that Buuri will burn down. Can she confirm to the Senate whether the whole of Buuri Sub-County was burnt down?

Services, Senate. tutaweza kudhibitisha kwamba ni haki na ukweli kwamba viongozi walitafuta hifadhi kwa sababu ya vitisho mlivyopata kutokana na kazi mliyojitwika katika kaunti yenu?

Asante, Bw. Spikawa Muda.

You may now proceed to respond to those questions.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. On the fire in the Assembly, I submit that I was inside the Assembly. I saw the fire on the roof of the Assembly from inside. I submit that a report on the occurrence was made at the Meru Police Station. I submit that the County Assembly of Meru has CCTV footage, although I did not have adequate time to extract it. It can be good evidence of how the Assembly was torched.

Then, on the disease, it is true that the individual farmers take care of their livestock, especially when the animals have some problems. However, I submit that vaccination is a very big issue that is usually done by the governments, simply because the farmers cannot keep those vaccines. There is no single private practitioner who vaccinates the cows.

Secondly, the farmers cannot afford the vaccines, which are very expensive. In the past, as it is the standard practice, the government subsidizes the vaccinations to ensure even these diseases do not spread. A disease can be led by an ignorant farmer, and then it spreads, and this disease wipes out all the cows.

Thirdly, regarding the public participation in Buuri, the officer tried to disrupt the public participation. However, our staff from the County Assembly insisted and said that those that wanted to participate to write written memoranda. So, from Buuri Sub-County, we relied heavily on written memoranda because many of the participants shied away from the public participation venues because of the said threats.

On the second question about the disease, I submit that I did not say there was a meeting. I said that these farmers consulted me or talked to me about their plight. They explained to me that they suffered these losses and we did not have any meetings. I submitted that. Immediately, after I got the report, I called the Director of Livestock Production and Veterinary Services to find out why the county was not vaccinating cows at that particular time as is the norm. I made that great effort. However, it was to no avail because we did not get any assistance.

On the County Assembly again, I have noted that the reports by the investigators indicated that it was a petrol bomb that was thrown. I read those charges here. It was retrieved by the investigators and they have it as part of their evidence as they were charging these criminals.

I submitted that MCAs, including myself, were feeling threatened and that is exactly why we slept in the Chamber in order to be secure. I thank you.

Thank you, Sen. Osotsi proceed. After Sen. Osotsi we will have Sen. Kinyua. You will answer questions from those two Senators.

Services, Senate. tutaweza kudhibitisha kwamba ni haki na ukweli kwamba viongozi walitafuta hifadhi kwa sababu ya vitisho mlivyopata kutokana na kazi mliyojitwika katika kaunti yenu?

Asante, Bw. Spikawa Muda.

Services, Senate. Assembly, which was filed on the 15th November, 2023. You note that this was just seven days after the last impeachment, which we had done on the 8thNovember, 2023.

I would like to find out from the witness whether she finds this to be a bit sinister. This particular Petition was calling for the impeachment of various County Executive Committee Members (CECM) and Chief Officers (COs) by the County Assembly, and therefore, further, dismissal by the Governor. Was this a continuation of your effort to derail the County Government of Meru?

Second issue; the witness confirmed to this House that she is a member of the Public Accounts Committee (PAC) and hence has obviously interacted with the Public Audit Act. Sections 31, 50 and 53 of the Public Audit Act are very clear that the report of the Auditor-General has to be considered, processed and reported to in the county assembly----

Sen. Osotsi, you time is up. You have asked the first question.

Sen. Kinyua, kindly ask your share of questions.

Asante Bw. Spika wa Muda. Katika kanda za video ambazo---

Order, Hon. Senators. Let us have Sen. Kinyua being heard in silence.

Services, Senate. Assembly, which was filed on the 15th November, 2023. You note that this was just seven days after the last impeachment, which we had done on the 8thNovember, 2023.

I would like to find out from the witness whether she finds this to be a bit sinister. This particular Petition was calling for the impeachment of various County Executive Committee Members (CECM) and Chief Officers (COs) by the County Assembly, and therefore, further, dismissal by the Governor. Was this a continuation of your effort to derail the County Government of Meru?

Second issue; the witness confirmed to this House that she is a member of the Public Accounts Committee (PAC) and hence has obviously interacted with the Public Audit Act. Sections 31, 50 and 53 of the Public Audit Act are very clear that the report of the Auditor-General has to be considered, processed and reported to in the county assembly----

Sen. Osotsi, you time is up. You have asked the first question.

Sen. Kinyua, kindly ask your share of questions.

Services, Senate. on 15th November, 2023; I may not be in a position to explain whether it was a sinister motive because the members of the public that presented this petition did it on their own volition.

Petition No.5 was committed by the Speaker of the County Assembly of Meru to a Joint Committee on Labour and Justice; two committees that I am not a member of. So, just like any MCA who is not a member of those two committees, I consumed that report only on the day it was tabled on the Floor of the House. So, about the sinister motive; I may not be able to explain because I consumed the report on the Floor of the honourable Assembly.

Number two; yes, I submit I am a member of the Public Accounts Committee (PAC) and the section that has just been quoted is indeed correct. However, I submit that apart from that section, Article 229(6) also indicates that an audit report can indeed, be considered by the County Assembly, but it also clear that the audit report is final.

In this regard, I submit that in the audit report, it was clearly indicated that the management of the County Government of Meru was in breach of the law. So, I do not feel that the County Assembly could have said the management is not in breach of the law.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the next question was from Sen. Kinyua. In the video, the Governor talks about a contribution of Kshs86 million; she is not giving two amounts. She only said that if that money is not above Kshs60 million, then those who are collecting that money are wakora na wezi in Kiswahili. That is what she insinuated, she did not give two figures. I believe it is the Governor who can speak for herself on whether she was taken out of context or not.

In the video that I am talking, I submit that that video was a media interview that I had taken for more than an hour. Although I said I cannot remember the dates, I submit that I had talked about so many governance issues. If that video was played in full, I would be able to explain the context and the circumstances under which I made that comment. That is why I feel it was out of context. Thank you.

You have answered the questions. We will have Sen. Oketch Eddy and Sen. Mundigi, in that order.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Witness, I know it has been a long day. I will be brief. I have two questions. You have confirmed that you belong to the Committee on County Public Accounts Committee (CPAC) in the Assembly.

Indeed.

Zipporah, respond to those two questions.

Thank you, Mr. TemporarySpeaker, Sir and hon. Senators. On the question on Petition No.5 that was presented to the County Assembly

Services, Senate. on 15th November, 2023; I may not be in a position to explain whether it was a sinister motive because the members of the public that presented this petition did it on their own volition.

Petition No.5 was committed by the Speaker of the County Assembly of Meru to a Joint Committee on Labour and Justice; two committees that I am not a member of. So, just like any MCA who is not a member of those two committees, I consumed that report only on the day it was tabled on the Floor of the House. So, about the sinister motive; I may not be able to explain because I consumed the report on the Floor of the honourable Assembly.

Number two; yes, I submit I am a member of the Public Accounts Committee (PAC) and the section that has just been quoted is indeed correct. However, I submit that apart from that section, Article 229(6) also indicates that an audit report can indeed, be considered by the County Assembly, but it also clear that the audit report is final.

In this regard, I submit that in the audit report, it was clearly indicated that the management of the County Government of Meru was in breach of the law. So, I do not feel that the County Assembly could have said the management is not in breach of the law.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the next question was from Sen. Kinyua. In the video, the Governor talks about a contribution of Kshs86 million; she is not giving two amounts. She only said that if that money is not above Kshs60 million, then those who are collecting that money are wakora na wezi in Kiswahili. That is what she insinuated, she did not give two figures. I believe it is the Governor who can speak for herself on whether she was taken out of context or not.

In the video that I am talking, I submit that that video was a media interview that I had taken for more than an hour. Although I said I cannot remember the dates, I submit that I had talked about so many governance issues. If that video was played in full, I would be able to explain the context and the circumstances under which I made that comment. That is why I feel it was out of context. Thank you.

You have answered the questions. We will have Sen. Oketch Eddy and Sen. Mundigi, in that order.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Witness, I know it has been a long day. I will be brief. I have two questions. You have confirmed that you belong to the Committee on County Public Accounts Committee (CPAC) in the Assembly.

Indeed.

I wanted to know, in your own understanding and knowledge, do all the Members of County Assembly (MCAs) in Meru County, those who voted for and against this impeachment, in your best of knowledge, belong to committees? If they do not belong to any committees, can you tell this House the circumstances that make them not to belong?

The last question is still on CPAC. The question that Sen.Osotsi asked is still not exhaustive to me. If you read Article 229 (8) of the Constitution, read together with Section 31 (5) of the Public Audit Act, the question is more of the responsibility to youas a member of CPAC and to the Assembly as a whole.

I submit---

Zipporah, I am speaking to you. You do not need to go to those other committees.

I am sorry, Hon. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

Proceed to the next.

On the other issue of the Public Accounts Committee (PAC) Section, 31, I stand guided.

Sorry, the Hon. Senator can repeat that question and give me the section that he referred to. I am sorry, I did not get it right.

Sen. Eddy, do you want to give the witness the relevant Article of the Constitution?

Thank you, Mr.Temporary Speaker, Sir. I will be fast. I referred to Section 229 (8) of the Constitution and Public Audit Act, Section 31 (5) . It is a

Zipporah, I am speaking to you. You do not need to go to those other committees.

I am sorry, Hon. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

Proceed to the next.

On the other issue of the Public Accounts Committee (PAC) Section, 31, I stand guided.

Sorry, the Hon. Senator can repeat that question and give me the section that he referred to. I am sorry, I did not get it right.

Sen. Eddy, do you want to give the witness the relevant Article of the Constitution?

Thank you, Mr.Temporary Speaker, Sir. I will be fast. I referred to Section 229 (8) of the Constitution and Public Audit Act, Section 31 (5) . It is a

Sen. Beth, please ask your questions.

It is interesting, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for a woman to bring a Motion against another woman and also line up three women witnesses.

The first question is in regard to video VKM09. Madam Zipporah, you declared the Governor’s seat vacant. I know you were not speaking for the Independent Electoral

Alright. Please respond to the second question that was asked by Sen. Mundigi.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir and Hon. Members.

On the question of the loss of around Kshs4 million - because the farmer is talking about 200,020 cows - I do not belong to the Agriculture Committee, but I can say that a number of reports have been tabled in the County Assembly in respect of management of livestock development and other aspects of agricultural activities in Meru County.

I cannot single out one that is specifically for the lost animal, but I can assure this House that a number of reports have been tabled in the County Assembly of Meru which considered recommendations given to the County Executive. They are all awaiting implementation.

Thank you so much, Hon. Zipporah.

Hon. Members, for purposes of time management, I have an indication that certain Members have got questions with regards to the other witnesses other than the witness at the stand. I would like to know for purposes of allowing you to speak.

From the dashboard, I have only one, so far, and we have expended 30 minutes of the one hour that is available. Kindly give that indication, so that we can get to know how to manage the time with hon. Zipporah. For now, we will have Sen. Beth Syengo and Sen. Mungatana in that order.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity to ask Hon. Zipporah two questions. Before I ask the questions, allow me to make this declaration. It is interesting---

Sen. Beth, please ask your questions.

It is interesting, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for a woman to bring a Motion against another woman and also line up three women witnesses.

The first question is in regard to video VKM09. Madam Zipporah, you declared the Governor’s seat vacant. I know you were not speaking for the Independent Electoral

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Regarding to the video that I referred to and said that the position is vacant, I submitted here that concerning all those videos, I had a media interview of more than one hour. Since the videos are not dated, I could not extract them to exactly get what I talked about. That is just a small segment of 20 seconds. I want to submit to this House, I must have raised very serious governance issues during that media interview. I cannot remember under which context that one was sent which is exactly why I said I could have been taken out of context.

I again submit that I never said my watchman took the video. Indeed, the video was retrieved from the CCTV cameras from my home. I submitted that the watchman heard something fall because he was not far. He went to check what had fallen and found the fire. That was my initial submission and I still insist that is the position.

On the six times question from hon. Sen. Mungatana, I want to note that it is not about the many times that the Governor of Meru is impeached. It is about fighting for good governance, accountability, delivery of services in Meru County and someone taking responsibility for the position given.

It is not about witch-hunt or anything. I think that shows the determination that we need a Meru County that is functional, where services are being delivered and where the county government is serving the people of Meru.

I thank you.

Thank you. Let us now, hear from Sen. M. Kajwang’ and thereafter Sen. Tabitha Mutinda.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, first, it pains me as the Senator for Tana River and this Senate that we are where we are again on this matter. We want to help the people of Meru.

In the video clip that was played, you said that even if we return this matter, you will go for six times. The question I have is this. Is there a deeper problem in Meru and do you think that by sending away the Governor, we shall resolve this problem on behalf of the people of Meru, or are we making the problem worse? Kindly clarify that.

Proceed to respond, hon. Zipporah.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, and hon. Members for those questions. I will start with the first one, which was not a question, but a comment, which I believe was directed to me about a woman removing another woman from the office.

I submit to this House---

Madam Zipporah, that was a comment. Please, respond to the question.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Regarding to the video that I referred to and said that the position is vacant, I submitted here that concerning all those videos, I had a media interview of more than one hour. Since the videos are not dated, I could not extract them to exactly get what I talked about. That is just a small segment of 20 seconds. I want to submit to this House, I must have raised very serious governance issues during that media interview. I cannot remember under which context that one was sent which is exactly why I said I could have been taken out of context.

I again submit that I never said my watchman took the video. Indeed, the video was retrieved from the CCTV cameras from my home. I submitted that the watchman heard something fall because he was not far. He went to check what had fallen and found the fire. That was my initial submission and I still insist that is the position.

On the six times question from hon. Sen. Mungatana, I want to note that it is not about the many times that the Governor of Meru is impeached. It is about fighting for good governance, accountability, delivery of services in Meru County and someone taking responsibility for the position given.

It is not about witch-hunt or anything. I think that shows the determination that we need a Meru County that is functional, where services are being delivered and where the county government is serving the people of Meru.

I thank you.

Thank you. Let us now, hear from Sen. M. Kajwang’ and thereafter Sen. Tabitha Mutinda.

Services, Senate.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I want to be very direct and go to the exhibit that was submitted by the County Assembly. On page 353 of volume two, you took us there to demonstratethat the wage bill grew by Kshs500 million from Kshs4.4 billion to Kshs4.9 billion. Did the County Assembly approve the Kshs4.9 billion budget or was the Kshs500 million, excess expenditure over and above what the County Assembly approved?

Number two; on page 375 of volume two, you have a schedule there showing the transfers that were made to the various entities. These entities include the Meru Investment and Development Corporation, the Meru County Revenue Board, the Meru Youth Service and Meru Microfinance Corporation, which in your submission you said the Governor violated the Constitution by not appointing the chairs of the boards.

At the same time, on page 375, we have the report of the Auditor-General showing Kshs699 million, close to Kshs700 million was transferred to some of these boards. Did the County Assembly approve the Kshs699 million transfer? If the County Assembly did approve it, then what then would be the matter of saying that the boards were not effective due non- appointment?

Finally, you took us to Section 58 of the County Governments Act that talks about the Chief Executive Officer (CEO) of the County Public Service Board (CPSB) . I want to get your views on Section 56 and 57 of the same Act. The Head of the County Public Service is the County Secretary. The CPSB works with the County Secretary to ensure that---

Sen. M. Kajwang’, your time is up.

Proceed, Sen. Tabitha Mutinda.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Hon. Zipporah, Clause 4 of the Meru County Revenue Board indicates that “there shall be an established Board.”Clause 6 talks about the composition of the board and it further emphasizes that the Act, therefore, requires the board to have a Chair.

Since you are a Member of the PAC as you have stated before this House, did you have any opportunity to have an audit query in regards to how funds were allocated or approved because we have seen that funds have been utilized? Putting in mind, Article 229 (6) of the Constitution says that an audit report shall confirm whether or not public money has been applied lawfully and in an effective way.

Lastly, after the second impeachment of the Meru Governor as the County Assembly, what remedy did you put in place as the leaders and the MCAs to ensure that you sought the issues of Meru County, once and for all?

Services, Senate.

Finally, and this is important and I also hate the fact that we have little time, on the issue asked by Sen. M. Kajwang’ in terms of the documents presented, what should the Executive do if the County Assembly fails to approve the nominees. Do those departments stay without being operational?

Sen. Peris Tobiko?

Services, Senate.

I submit to this honourable House that the County Assembly allocates funds and then the Governor together with the County Executive Committee Members (CECM) is to be accountable for the management and use of the county resources. It is not the responsibility of the County Assembly to manage the resources. It is the work of the Governor together with the staff that the Governor supervises according to that section.

Secondly, concerning the Meru County boards that have not been operational because they were not constituted, I submit that the County Assembly of Meru made various communications through the clerk of the County Assembly to the County Executive. That, they needed to submit documents to the County Assembly to enable it carry out its mandates, which were never received. Similarly, as I have said, it is the work of the County Executive to use the funds allocated well.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, and hon. Members, the third question is on the Chief Executive Officer (CEO) of the County Public Service Board (CPSB) and the County Secretary. These two offices in county public service have distinct functions. They board is mandated to recruit through interviews. After recruitment, it is the county secretary who deploys, supervises and does the other work. So, the two have distinct functions. It is only that they work very closely.

The other question from Sen. Tabitha Mutinda is still on the chairperson of the board. I believe I have already submitted. That, it is the responsibility of the Governor of Meru County and the other officers to ensure the boards are legally constituted. It is not the duty of the County Assembly of Meru.

Concerning the remedy about this issue, I have already submitted that the County Assembly has worked so hard to implore on the County Executive to carry out their mandate in order to make even our work as the County Assembly very easy.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

Thank you. Hon. Members, you have 12 minutes remaining to conclude this session. Let us be mindful of time once you are allowed to seek your clarifications.

Sen. Ledama and Sen. Tobiko.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I will start by asking the witness to clarify on her last submission, on the failure by the County Government to appoint people in these boards. I will take the witness to Volume 1B, page 53 and I do not know whether she has had a chance to look into it.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, this issue of two minutes is doing us a big disservice. I would like her to tell me what page 53, 57, 58, 60, 61, 62, 65 and page 67 of the Governor’s response, Vol 1B in terms of the responsibility of the County Assembly when it comes to the issue of confirming those nominees. Did the County Assembly ignore the request by the County Executive to confirm it? Refer to those and tell us what that equates to.

Secondly, I would like to understand whether impeachment equates to oversight. In her submissions when she was being taken through her video No. 17, she was asked by her lawyer in her evidence in chief, what she meant by, it is in the business of the Assembly to impeach. She changed her mind and then later on said that it is the business of the County to oversight.

I think it is important that the witness refer to the pages that I led her to because it is specific to the board appointments. If you look at page 53. We want her to be very clear on that. We just want clarity.

Witness, please go to those specific pages that you were referred to as you make your responses.

Thank you very much. I am referring to the letter that the hon. Senator is talking about in the bundle of the Governor's response is on page 53. In response to this letter, the Clerk of the County Assembly responded to this letter in our bundle of documents Volume II on page 61, requesting for more information on the nominees on 21st July, 2023.

I may not read because of time constraints. Then again, the Clerk of the County Assembly wrote again to the County Government thus: “this is kindly to make a follow- up on the requested information to facilitate the committal of the 400 nominees to the various Boards.” That was a reminder on page 62 of our bundle of documents.

From that time---

On a point of Order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

What is your point of order, Sen. Methu? Give him the microphone.

On a point of Order, Mr. Temporary Speaker Sir. Temporary Speaker (

Since this is evidence-in-chief, and it will go on record, it is fair that the witness refers to the content of the letter that the Clerk has written, “would wish to kindly inform you that my office is unable to recommend the same for the appointment, to be transmitted to the County Assembly for action”.

What the witness is saying is that they wrote to ask for more information, which is a not accurate. The fact is that the Clerk said that the County Assembly is unable to process their vetting since their offices have been occupied by other occupants.

Madam Zipporah, kindly restrict yourself to the contents of the letter in responding to that particular question and be very mindful of the time that is already out.

Well guided. I read the second letter, maybe the hon. Senator in the first letter, I am sorry about that. However, my submission is that despite the constant communication, the information was not provided, so it became difficult for the County Assembly of Meru to continue with the process.

Sorry for that. Hon. Members. On the second question from Sen. Olekina, on whether impeachment is an oversight; the impeachment of a Governor is based on violations of the Constitution and other laws. In my own opinion, I describe impeachment as part of the oversight. I believe there is no other question from Sen. Olekina.

I will move to the question from hon. Sen. Tobiko. I submit that I did not install a CCTV just because of these insecurities. My home has been under the surveillance of the CCTV camera for the last five years. I also submit that I did not secure the services of a watchman because of this. The watchman has worked for me for several years.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

Maybe I can rephrase it---

Hon. Zipporah, proceed to conclude on the response to the question.

Services, Senate.

Since this is evidence-in-chief, and it will go on record, it is fair that the witness refers to the content of the letter that the Clerk has written, “would wish to kindly inform you that my office is unable to recommend the same for the appointment, to be transmitted to the County Assembly for action”.

What the witness is saying is that they wrote to ask for more information, which is a not accurate. The fact is that the Clerk said that the County Assembly is unable to process their vetting since their offices have been occupied by other occupants.

Madam Zipporah, kindly restrict yourself to the contents of the letter in responding to that particular question and be very mindful of the time that is already out.

Well guided. I read the second letter, maybe the hon. Senator in the first letter, I am sorry about that. However, my submission is that despite the constant communication, the information was not provided, so it became difficult for the County Assembly of Meru to continue with the process.

Sorry for that. Hon. Members. On the second question from Sen. Olekina, on whether impeachment is an oversight; the impeachment of a Governor is based on violations of the Constitution and other laws. In my own opinion, I describe impeachment as part of the oversight. I believe there is no other question from Sen. Olekina.

I will move to the question from hon. Sen. Tobiko. I submit that I did not install a CCTV just because of these insecurities. My home has been under the surveillance of the CCTV camera for the last five years. I also submit that I did not secure the services of a watchman because of this. The watchman has worked for me for several years.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

Services, Senate.

I thank you.

Thank you. Now, Hon. Members, we have fully utilized the one hour that had been granted for purposes of clarifications. Therefore, as I directed earlier on, everyone had requested to seek clarifications. We cannot be here until midnight. We must limit and manage our time so that the session is done.

Madam Zipporah, you are excused from this point. Hon. Members, we are proceeding to the next witness.

Order, Hon. Members! The Chair is speaking. Sen. Cherarkey and Sen. Omogeni, order, please. We are closing that part. We have discharged the witness and that session is concluded.

Hon. Members, the next session is with regard to the second witness who has been summoned.We stood him down, so that the document he was to rely on, was circulated. That is the witness whom I would like to---

Very well. Proceed with what you need to ask for the witness to respond. Very well, just a confirmation. There is a second witness whom we need to call upon; Ms. Hyrene Kawira Kamenchu.

Take the stand for Members to seek clarifications. We will do this section immediately and thereafter go back to the witness whom we stood down.

All right Members, with regards to the witnesses who have testified, we have Madam Hyrene Kawira Kamenchu and Linda Gakii. We will take 15 minutes to seek clarifications from the witness on the dock right now and another 15 minutes with Linda Gakii. Once we are done with the two, we will deal with Jacob Kirari.

So, for those who were unable to seek clarifications with the previous witness, this could be an opportunity to seek any additional clarifications with the other two witnesses.

From the dashboard, I have Sen. Okiya Omtatah.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, thank you for the opportunity, although I had prepared to ask the previous witness questions. However, with your direction, I will not hesitate to ask the learned counsel who was before us---

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, where is the other witness that was here?

Sen. Okiya Omtatah, resume your seat, please.

Hon. Members, the witness on the stand now is Ms. Hyrene Kawira Kamenchu. If you have any question or clarification from her, this is the opportunity.

From my dashboard, the first person is Sen. Okiya Omtatah. If you have a question to the witness, proceed; if you do not, I will ask Sen. Samson Cherarkey.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I am not done yet. I have the last one.

Conclude in under one minute.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the last one is on the directors. I confirm that the document that I have presented in this House is an official document that was submitted to the honourable House by the County Executive Committee Member (CECM) for Public Service on Legal Affairs. It is an official document that was adopted in the House. I believed I did not need to have appointment letters because that is a document that was submitted to the House by the CECM in the summons. Therefore, the County Assembly adopted it as an authentic document.

This is my time, I thought I could use it the way I want.

Order, Sen.Cherarkey. Are you

Yes, I am asking a question---

Proceed to ask the witness the question.

Services, Senate.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, under Standing Order No.1---

This is my time, I thought I could use it the way I want.

Order, Sen.Cherarkey. Are you

Yes, I am asking a question---

Proceed to ask the witness the question.

With your guidance because under Standing Order No. 1, which is part of our rules and regulation, the Mover of the Motion was the key witness that we wanted to seek clarification from her. That will affect our judgment at the end of these proceedings. It will be very unfair.

Sen. Cherarkey, resume your seat, so that I give further guidance.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, but these are the Standing Orders; they are not strange to the House.

Sen. Cherarkey, resume your seat so that I give further guidance to the House.

Yes, please.

If you have no question to the witness on the stand, you may sign out. If you do, remain so that I give you the opportunity to ask those questions. Clear the screen.

I still have Members lined up, so I will give those who are still on the screen. Sen. Joyce. All right, Sen. Hamida Kibwana. Very well, I will discharge the witness.

Services, Senate.

Sen. Veronica, address the Speaker.

Through the Speaker, kuna control yoyote ambayo gavana alipewa---

Are you able to respond to that question? Your question is made, Sen. Veronica. Take your seat, you have asked the question. Allow the witness to respond to that question.

Ms. Hyrene Kawira: Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, and hon. Members, I would answer the question to my Senator. As I have said, the Paybill was initiated by Sniper’s friends and the bloggers. I was the one accountable for the Paybill and the notifications were being forwarded to my phone. I am the holder of the account.

Thank you. That question is answered.

Proceed, Sen.Mutinda.

Nakupa pole zangu kwa kumpoteza mume wako Sniper. Nimeona katika video kwamba ulikerwa sana wakati Gavana alieleza kwamba ulipokea Shilingi milioni 86 taslimu na kwamba unaishi na Member of the County Assembly (MCA) mmoja wa Kaunti ya Meru. Ulichukuwa hatua gani kuondoa maneno haya ambayo kulingana nawe sio maneno ya kweli? Kwa kizungu tunasema, to clear the air.

Asante Bw. Spika wa Muda. Ms. Hyrene Kawira: Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir and the hon. Senators, it is the reason I am here today. I want to shed light to the whole House and to Kenyans that I do not have such amount. Na sikufichwa na MCA fulani.

Proceed, Sen. Olekina.

Services, Senate.

Sen. Veronica, address the Speaker.

Through the Speaker, kuna control yoyote ambayo gavana alipewa---

Are you able to respond to that question? Your question is made, Sen. Veronica. Take your seat, you have asked the question. Allow the witness to respond to that question.

Ms. Hyrene Kawira: Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, and hon. Members, I would answer the question to my Senator. As I have said, the Paybill was initiated by Sniper’s friends and the bloggers. I was the one accountable for the Paybill and the notifications were being forwarded to my phone. I am the holder of the account.

Thank you. That question is answered.

Proceed, Sen.Mutinda.

Services, Senate.

Kwanza nakupa pole kwa sababu najua ni hali ngumu. Swali langu pia lingeenda kwa wakili, sio kwa madam.

Very well, Sen. Beth. Is there any other Member? I have three Members on my dashboard. I do not want Members to complain. If there is none, then the witness is discharged.

Let us call upon the second last witness, Ms. Linda Kiome.